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View Full Version : Big Question: Will Giants Pay For Passing On LB, CB?



RoanokeFan
05-09-2013, 01:25 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000168284/article/2013-nfl-draft-fallout-new-york-giants


Excerpt: "When it comes to the draft, the New York Giants do things their own way. Always have.

Heading into this year's exercise, Big Blue desperately needed help at cornerback and linebacker. General manager Jerry Reese boldly ignored both positions through seven rounds.Why? Because this is how New York rolls.Reese sticks to his draft board instead of patching holes with lesser talent. That predictably nets ho-hum draft grades from scores of pundits, but the acid test is two Super Bowl (http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/47) titles since 2007.New York did strengthen its defensive line with Ohio State's Johnathan Hankins (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/johnathan-hankins?id=2540147) and Texas A&M'sDamontre Moore (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/damontre-moore?id=2540138). In theory, a deeper front four will buy time for New York's linebackers and secondary, but ignoring those areas means the Giants (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG) might not be done adding free agents." Read more...

Buddy333
05-09-2013, 01:40 PM
More concerned about CB than LB. would like to see both improve but how realistic was it for them to fix all their problems in FA and the draft when they have no cap room? Their entire secondary is suspect. Other than Prince what do they have. Webster may or may not have a better year. Ross? He was cut by the Jaguars after one season. Hosely may be ok but struggled as a rookie. At Safety they have two promising young players and Rolle. No more KP. They had to start somewhere and the trenches made sense, but they still may have some big problems this year.

ELI_HOF_NYG
05-09-2013, 02:02 PM
if the front 7 can actually generate pressure this season the secondary will be just fine.

myles2424
05-09-2013, 02:18 PM
Well no matter what everyones opinion is.....Eventually were going to need another legit CB other than Prince...And eventually were going to need a LB that is worthy of keeping around awhile,every year theres a new guy that nobody else wanted...
Williams is our best LB,nothing against him,but that's not a good thing....
Prince is our only good CB at this point....Imagine if he got hurt & were relying on Ross and Webster all year....omg...
And lets not talk about the past,Webster was terrible & Ross sucked with the jags...

giantscolombia
05-09-2013, 02:22 PM
People seem to forget that Corey Webster was abyssmal last year!
our response to him being trash was re-signing a kid that has had 4 knee surgeries in 5 years and a scrub who took a "vacation" in Florida.
Our linebacker was Chase Blackburn that people bashed for not being athletic enough. Our response was to bring in Morgan or whatever his name was, some back-up linebacker that doesn't seem like a huge upgrade over Chase considering he has to learn a new system.

Yes! we are in trouble if any single "starter" gets injured. we do not have depth and we did not address the thinning positions during the draft.

egyptian420
05-09-2013, 02:25 PM
Well no matter what everyones opinion is.....Eventually were going to need another legit CB other than Prince...And eventually were going to need a LB that is worthy of keeping around awhile,every year theres a new guy that nobody else wanted...
Williams is our best LB,nothing against him,but that's not a good thing....
Prince is our only good CB at this point....Imagine if he got hurt & were relying on Ross and Webster all year....omg...
And lets not talk about the past,Webster was terrible & Ross sucked with the jags...These things worry me indeed, even if all our starters are healthy our LBs and CBs are shaky. Any injury to those 2 positions can really screw us over big time.

I pray to God someone emerges in camp and bursts onto the scene like Stevie did last year.

myles2424
05-09-2013, 02:28 PM
People seem to forget that Corey Webster was abyssmal last year!
our response to him being trash was re-signing a kid that has had 4 knee surgeries in 5 years and a scrub who took a "vacation" in Florida.
Our linebacker was Chase Blackburn that people bashed for not being athletic enough. Our response was to bring in Morgan or whatever his name was, some back-up linebacker that doesn't seem like a huge upgrade over Chase considering he has to learn a new system.

Yes! we are in trouble if any single "starter" gets injured. we do not have depth and we did not address the thinning positions during the draft.
People get upset on this topic, but we passed on 1st round talent at cb & lb with Arthur Brown and Jamar Taylor....
I hope Hankins is legit, but when you have big needs, imo I would've rather took Brown/taylor & trading back up in the 3rd and grabbing Hankins there while losing our 4th rounder...

Kruunch
05-09-2013, 02:31 PM
Time will tell. If our LBers suck, and our CBs are depleted by injuries (again), then yes, a ton of people will scream "I told you so!".

If all of that happens, and we win a Super Bowl again then the same people will say "We won a SB with that strategy!".

Shrug. I think the 49ers and Ravens showcased what having good LBers does for you in 2012. I don't fault the Giants picks except maybe taking Nassib in the 4th, but then again I don't get paid to make those decisions.

myles2424
05-09-2013, 02:38 PM
Time will tell. If our LBers suck, and our CBs are depleted by injuries (again), then yes, a ton of people will scream "I told you so!".

If all of that happens, and we win a Super Bowl again then the same people will say "We won a SB with that strategy!".

Shrug. I think the 49ers and Ravens showcased what having good LBers does for you in 2012. I don't fault the Giants picks except maybe taking Nassib in the 4th, but then again I don't get paid to make those decisions.
I hate when people argue that somehow LBs aren't important just because it worked for us...As if better LBs wouldn't make our whole defense better...
Id like to tell a SanFran or Ravens fans that Willis/Bowman & Ray Lewis aren't that important to their D...

Mercury
05-09-2013, 02:48 PM
I'm worried less about CB. At least there is some talent there to start with. LB corp is scary untalented and injury prone to boot.

giantscolombia
05-09-2013, 02:58 PM
People get upset on this topic, but we passed on 1st round talent at cb & lb with Arthur Brown and Jamar Taylor....
I hope Hankins is legit, but when you have big needs, imo I would've rather took Brown/taylor & trading back up in the 3rd and grabbing Hankins there while losing our 4th rounder...

Yes! we did. I'm not particularly mad at our pics to be honest with you I feel a little uneasy because we are so thin. I think there was a thread some kid posted asking why people wanted a CB. He listed a bunch of names, yes we may have a lot of bodies but none of them are sure fire starters opposite from Prince. There is way too many question marks. What if Webby does not bounce back? What if T2 gets injured yet again? What if Ross wants to take a vacation in NY now?

Those huge question marks behind our "best possible" players at that particular position.

I'm still a little confused at the Nassib pick up. I know he is of huge value but we do not need a QB, not now atleast.

giantscolombia
05-09-2013, 03:00 PM
I'm worried less about CB. At least there is some talent there to start with. LB corp is scary untalented and injury prone to boot.
I'm more worried about the CB's to be honest. At linebacker we have shown that we can potentially plug and play kinda like we did with Chase. I know he knew the system or what not but still.

I'm scared that C-Web is in major decline and our back-up T2 has been injured more than anyone I know. Behind T2 we have an inconsistent player that iirc is also injury prone in Ross.

joemorrisforprez
05-09-2013, 10:10 PM
I think it will depend on some pretty big "ifs".

The Giants will be okay.....

IF...Paysinger, Herzlich, and J-Will improve their games.....they are young guys, so this is possible.
IF....Rivers stays healthy.
IF....Connor can fill Blackburns shoes. Nothing in his career stats suggest he's head and shoulder above Chase.
IF....Cooper Taylor plays the 4-2-5 like another linebacker.
IF....DaMontre Moore can give us an edge-rushing OLB look from time to time (Marc Ross suggested this was part of his draft-day thought process).

myles2424
05-09-2013, 10:36 PM
I'm still a little confused at the Nassib pick up. I know he is of huge value but we do not need a QB, not now atleast.
I have a very hard time believing were drafting Eli's back up 5 years in advance....
best case scenario IMO, he flashes in preseason, he finishes a few blowout games throughout the season & looks great and we can trade him for a high pick

nycsportzfan
05-09-2013, 11:07 PM
I'm worried less about CB. At least there is some talent there to start with. LB corp is scary untalented and injury prone to boot. Agreed.. I don't understand how its close really.. I mean, we downgraded with Dan Connor, which is hard to do from Chase Blackburn, and Connor and Rivers both have major injury concenrs, and as much as we hope Jaquian Williams is the answer at the will, hes had very small sample size of successful NFL play, and was injured most of his soph campaign.. Paysinger and Herzlich have showed absoulutley nothing to this point.. I do think Dan Connor may be a fit with us, but thats based purely on a huntch, and i have really no evidence to back that claim.. Maybe Keith Rivers can finally stay healthy, and at least, hes not a DE type playing SLB, and can move in space alot better then Kiwi, but again, have his injuries taken a toal, and will he finally be able to be a impact player and stay healthy? All question marks, across the board at LB..

joemorrisforprez
05-09-2013, 11:19 PM
I have a very hard time believing were drafting Eli's back up 5 years in advance....
best case scenario IMO, he flashes in preseason, he finishes a few blowout games throughout the season & looks great and we can trade him for a high pick

I agree....can't see him sitting around that long....trade bait is the most likely best-case scenario.

If he does stick around until Eli retires, it might cost some serious coin.

BlueBlooded1979
05-10-2013, 03:38 AM
Agreed.. I don't understand how its close really.. I mean, we downgraded with Dan Connor, which is hard to do from Chase Blackburn, and Connor and Rivers both have major injury concenrs, and as much as we hope Jaquian Williams is the answer at the will, hes had very small sample size of successful NFL play, and was injured most of his soph campaign.. Paysinger and Herzlich have showed absoulutley nothing to this point.. I do think Dan Connor may be a fit with us, but thats based purely on a huntch, and i have really no evidence to back that claim.. Maybe Keith Rivers can finally stay healthy, and at least, hes not a DE type playing SLB, and can move in space alot better then Kiwi, but again, have his injuries taken a toal, and will he finally be able to be a impact player and stay healthy? All question marks, across the board at LB..

If I remember correctly this team played roughly these percentages.
2LB - 5DB 60%
3LB - 4DB 25%
1LB - 6DB 10%
3LB - 5DB 10% 3 man rush :-(

If they are playing 2 or less LBs 70% of the time then the questionable talent at CB and S is far more concerning. Prince is solid, Hosely and Brown are good but flawed players. The rest are guys that are hoping for bounce-back years. Scheme can protect limited LB talent but your DBs are always out there in space.

brad
05-10-2013, 06:04 AM
If I remember correctly this team played roughly these percentages.
2LB - 5DB 60%
3LB - 4DB 25%
1LB - 6DB 10%
3LB - 5DB 10% 3 man rush :-(

If they are playing 2 or less LBs 70% of the time then the questionable talent at CB and S is far more concerning. Prince is solid, Hosely and Brown are good but flawed players. The rest are guys that are hoping for bounce-back years. Scheme can protect limited LB talent but your DBs are always out there in space.

Thats 105% LOL... but point taken. Still, that means 90% of the time they have at least 2 LBs on the field. Name two quality LBs that could start on most other teams in the NFL. Pretty sure we don't have that. That is probably why they don't use 3 very often.

nycsportzfan
05-10-2013, 07:24 AM
If I remember correctly this team played roughly these percentages.
2LB - 5DB 60%
3LB - 4DB 25%
1LB - 6DB 10%
3LB - 5DB 10% 3 man rush :-(

If they are playing 2 or less LBs 70% of the time then the questionable talent at CB and S is far more concerning. Prince is solid, Hosely and Brown are good but flawed players. The rest are guys that are hoping for bounce-back years. Scheme can protect limited LB talent but your DBs are always out there in space. I'm pretty sure we don't have 105pct of plays..lol Our LB's are very suspect, and we have a top notch young stud in Prince, and a nice young nickel in Hosley, and a couple vets in TT and Web, that could give us big yrs or nothing, just like all our LB's, and also Aaron Ross, who will be solid vet presence.. The cb situation is better then the LB situation...

TAILGATIN'
05-10-2013, 08:03 AM
Very plain answer.. yes, we will suffer at some point unless the guys from last year (and Connor) step up their game. Im not sure why so many fans think we will magically be fine when we've done absolutely nothing to improve these positions that got chewed up last year. Its the same group.

Shimmy
05-10-2013, 08:28 AM
if the front 7 can actually generate pressure this season the secondary will be just fine.
This. When is the last time we really excelled at LB? When we had Taylor and Banks I'm pretty positive. Giants are the type of team that relies on their pass rush, and the front 7. That's the reason we've won the past two superbowls. When you have a superior pass rush / front 7, you can have a mediocre secondary that will look exceptionally well from the play of the front 7.

Shockeystays08
05-10-2013, 08:48 AM
Corey Webster stunk up the joint last season. We should have addressed CB in the draft. Ross is average at best, pure backup material. Will Webby rebound? Doubt it! I think LB play will improve. Those who think improved d line play will benefit Webster are missing a key fact, Webster was beaten often right off the bat, within the first 3 steps he was beaten. An improved pass rush won't help that situation as far as Webster is concerned.

Kruunch
05-10-2013, 08:51 AM
I hate when people argue that somehow LBs aren't important just because it worked for us...As if better LBs wouldn't make our whole defense better...
Id like to tell a SanFran or Ravens fans that Willis/Bowman & Ray Lewis aren't that important to their D...

Yep yep ... but as long as the Giants contend for SBs that argument will always have legs.

I'm of the opinion that you try to improve the team measurably year-to-year (especially in this day of the short contract). I don't think the Giants improved their team more with Nassib over a player like Khaseem Greene. Value only goes so far ... especially if the value added isn't used.

But again, I don't get paid the big bucks to make these decisions and Reese is certainly smarter than I am in this realm. It's just frustrating to watch.

Kruunch
05-10-2013, 08:53 AM
Corey Webster stunk up the joint last season. We should have addressed CB in the draft. Ross is average at best, pure backup material. Will Webby rebound? Doubt it! I think LB play will improve. Those who think improved d line play will benefit Webster are missing a key fact, Webster was beaten often right off the bat, within the first 3 steps he was beaten. An improved pass rush won't help that situation as far as Webster is concerned.


Historically, CWeb has done this before, so it's not out of the realm of probability to expect him to do it again (rebound that is). Age will certainly start to play a factor however. I am very surprised they didn't take at least a late round flyer on a CB though.

gumby74
05-10-2013, 09:00 AM
we'll find out in 3-4 years. Even if our LBers are terrible, if Eli declines and Nassib is able to step in like Aaron Rodgers did, it would be worth every penny and then some.

Shockeystays08
05-10-2013, 10:12 AM
Historically, CWeb has done this before, so it's not out of the realm of probability to expect him to do it again (rebound that is). Age will certainly start to play a factor however. I am very surprised they didn't take at least a late round flyer on a CB though.

Well, your pretty much on target with your assessments so I'll hold out hope that Webby will clean up his act for 2013. A late round flyer would of been nice though,Poyer?

TAILGATIN'
05-10-2013, 10:15 AM
we'll find out in 3-4 years. Even if our LBers are terrible, if Eli declines and Nassib is able to step in like Aaron Rodgers did, it would be worth every penny and then some.
Huh? 3-4 years, are you kidding? This is a thread on LBs and CBs. Although we used one pick on Nassib, we didnt address the 2 other postions at any other point in the draft. Who cares about 3-4 years? Lets take things one year at a time and focus on 2013. Fact is we skimped out in these two positions and at some point I believe we will pay the price this year.