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View Full Version : For the first time in a LONG time, I think we have EQUAL talent on offense



NYG4lifeNYK
05-09-2013, 07:43 PM
In the passing game and run game.

QB: Eli ----- Nassib


WR: Nicks ----- Cruz ----- Randle ----- Murphy

TE: Myers ----- Robinson ----- Pascoe


RB: Wilson ----- Brown ----- Scott?




Are we one of the youngest teams in the league now? We have to be close. The drastic infuse of young talent we have on this roster is ridiculous.

Wilson and Brown have the talent and skill set to be one of the best dynamic RB tandems in the league.

Both Wilson and Brown have a mix of everything.

Wilson is SPEED but also has power and can take contact with the best of them and STILL stay on his feet for a ton more YAC.
Brown is POWER but also has speed and INVITES contact :) .. Brown may be better suited for short yardage but don't be fooled.

Both can be receiving threats.



This offense is shaping up to be the most prolific dynamic offense we've ever had in franchise history.

While we lost Bennett's stretch the field ability we gained more security in Myers hands.

NYG 5
05-09-2013, 09:29 PM
yeah, but the offensive line? unproven

Rudyy
05-09-2013, 09:31 PM
Now if only we can get rid of the shotgun draws.....

Flip Empty
05-09-2013, 09:32 PM
It's not much different to last year's?

darrin99
05-09-2013, 09:32 PM
yeah, but the offensive line? unproven

Yeah. The line is a shell of what it was 5 years ago.

jintsfan666
05-09-2013, 09:47 PM
Now if only we can get rid of the shotgun draws.....

Lol. Not gonna happen while Kilbride is our OC.

BigBlue1971
05-09-2013, 09:48 PM
i got to agree with the o-line comments! if these guys dont gel it will be hard for the offense to be consistent!

Sovereign
05-09-2013, 09:53 PM
2012: 6th most points scored
2011: 8th most points scored
2010: 7th most points scored
2009: 8th most points scored

But please let's continue whining about the oline like we're the Bears or something.

Rudyy
05-09-2013, 09:56 PM
2012: 6th most points scored
2011: 8th most points scored
2010: 7th most points scored
2009: 8th most points scored

But please let's continue whining about the oline like we're the Bears or something.Our line still needs improvement regardless..

Toadofsteel
05-09-2013, 09:57 PM
The interior OL is old as balls...

Rudyy
05-09-2013, 09:58 PM
The interior OL is old as balls...Whose balls?

Sovereign
05-09-2013, 10:00 PM
Our line still needs improvement regardless..

Sure but it isn't hampering progress.

Carter.525
05-09-2013, 10:03 PM
Whose balls?

Diehl's

Rudyy
05-09-2013, 10:05 PM
Sure but it isn't hampering progress.If we don't revamp it, it can.

ShakeandBake
05-09-2013, 10:07 PM
No way, if Cruz stays on the team Our WR corps trumps our RB corps easy

slipknottin
05-09-2013, 10:12 PM
The interior OL is old as balls...

Not really, Baas is 31
Snee is 31
Boothe is 29.

That isnt particularly old.

im not sure what team you want to compare it to, but take some random ones,

Patriots, the guards are 31 and 30. The center is 27.

Saints, guards are 29 and center is 27.

There are some teams that are a lot younger, but that isnt really the norm everywhere.

Maybe on average teams are about a year younger, maybe two.

What the giants need is for one of the young guys, Brewer, McCants, Mosley, Herman, etc. to step up and take that LG spot, and push for C/RG as well, if not this season then next.

Carter.525
05-09-2013, 10:14 PM
Not really, Baas is 31
Snee is 31
Boothe is 29.

That isnt particularly old.

im not sure what team you want to compare it to, but take some random ones,

Patriots, the guards are 31 and 30. The center is 27.

Saints, guards are 29 and center is 27.

There are some teams that are a lot younger, but that isnt really the norm everywhere.

Maybe on average teams are about a year younger, maybe two.

What the giants need is for one of the young guys, Brewer, McCants, Mosley, Herman, etc. to step up and take that LG spot, and push for C/RG as well, if not this season then next.

this is my horse..

nycsportzfan
05-09-2013, 10:55 PM
We did add Pugh and Herman to the oline, and still have Beatty, Snee, and Boothe.. Also, another versatile player in Brandon Mosley, who could be a valuable player now that hes healthy, and i'm not quite ready to give up on James Brewer either.. I think we got some nice young pieces on the oline, and the only positon i really worry about is Center, as i'm just not a fan of David Baas, and i'm hoping this is the last yr we gotta see that dude in town.. But either way, with Pugh, Mosley, Brewer, and Herman, we now have youth and versatilty, to go along with Boothe, Snee, and Beatty...

Drez
05-09-2013, 10:56 PM
Now if only we can get rid of the shotgun draws.....No one complains about the shotgun draws when they work. They work as often (if not more) than they don't.

Perception is a fickle lover.

Drez
05-09-2013, 10:58 PM
I think we got some nice young pieces on the oline, and the only positon i really worry about is Center, as i'm just not a fan of David Baas, and i'm hoping this is the last yr we gotta see that dude in town.His restructure this offseason says he's going to be here at least one more year.

nycsportzfan
05-09-2013, 10:59 PM
I still think Brandon Myers is gonna end up being this teams most valuable pickup including the draft this offseason.. This guy was a stud on a bad Oakland team with a very weak armed Carson Palmer throwing him the ball, and i could see him having dallas clark type impact for us, like clark did with peyton in indy... This kids gonna make life so much easier for Nicks, Cruz, Randle, and Murphy... I seen alot of Myers last yr, because i'm a gambler, and for some reason, ended up gambling on quite a few Radier games, and i'm telling you, this is one of the more talented TE's we've had as far as offensive weapon in some time..

nycsportzfan
05-09-2013, 10:59 PM
His restructure this offseason says he's going to be here at least one more year. After this yr?

Drez
05-09-2013, 11:09 PM
After this yr?I just looked at his numbers. Saying my math is right (and I've had a few beers, so it might not be, lol), if we cut him after this season we'll incur a $6.95m cap hit. His base next season is $4.75m. That would be a net loss of $2.2m. He has signing bonuses of $2.225m each year and a misc bonus of $1.25m. If that misc bonus isn't all guaranteed, then he should be cuttable. If it is, then he'll likely be on the roster next season regardless.

Cool Papa B.
05-09-2013, 11:32 PM
We did add Pugh and Herman to the oline, and still have Beatty, Snee, and Boothe.. Also, another versatile player in Brandon Mosley, who could be a valuable player now that hes healthy, and i'm not quite ready to give up on James Brewer either.. I think we got some nice young pieces on the oline, and the only positon i really worry about is Center, as i'm just not a fan of David Baas, and i'm hoping this is the last yr we gotta see that dude in town.. But either way, with Pugh, Mosley, Brewer, and Herman, we now have youth and versatilty, to go along with Boothe, Snee, and Beatty...

Good post.

I agree with everything you said except for Brewer. With his lack of playing time especially when Deihl went down last year, that tells me he isn't progressing the way they would expect.

slipknottin
05-09-2013, 11:38 PM
I just looked at his numbers. Saying my math is right (and I've had a few beers, so it might not be, lol), if we cut him after this season we'll incur a $6.95m cap hit. His base next season is $4.75m. That would be a net loss of $2.2m. He has signing bonuses of $2.225m each year and a misc bonus of $1.25m. If that misc bonus isn't all guaranteed, then he should be cuttable. If it is, then he'll likely be on the roster next season regardless.

http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=David%20Baas&Position=C&Team=Giants

drewz
05-10-2013, 12:03 AM
2012: 6th most points scored
2011: 8th most points scored
2010: 7th most points scored
2009: 8th most points scored

But please let's continue whining about the oline like we're the Bears or something.

Yeah, that offensive line really held up down the stretch!

NYG4lifeNYK
05-10-2013, 01:08 AM
It's not much different to last year's?

Almost entirely different.


Wilson and Brown will see a MUCH larger role.
Randle will see a MUCH larger role.
We have Murphy.
We have Myers and Robinson.

Drez
05-10-2013, 07:23 AM
2012: 6th most points scored
2011: 8th most points scored
2010: 7th most points scored
2009: 8th most points scored

But please let's continue whining about the oline like we're the Bears or something.Now take a look at the pressures given up and yards before contact on rushes and tell me we don't need to upgrade the line.

slipknottin
05-10-2013, 07:42 AM
Now take a look at the pressures given up and yards before contact on rushes and tell me we don't need to upgrade the line.

About the best there is is FOs - http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Giants had the 2nd best run blocking line, and 3rd best pass blocking line

TAILGATIN'
05-10-2013, 07:53 AM
2012: 6th most points scored
2011: 8th most points scored
2010: 7th most points scored
2009: 8th most points scored

But please let's continue whining about the oline like we're the Bears or something.
Uh, ok. You must be thinking of a different Giants team. Maybe you didnt see E get smacked around last. More hits like that and we may see Nassib sooner than we want.

TAILGATIN'
05-10-2013, 07:53 AM
Now take a look at the pressures given up and yards before contact on rushes and tell me we don't need to upgrade the line.
^ this.

Drez
05-10-2013, 07:53 AM
About the best there is is FOs - http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Giants had the 2nd best run blocking line, and 3rd best pass blocking lineThere is no way we had the 3rd best pass blocking line in the NFL. Our run blocking last year was a little above average, but not much.

Flip Empty
05-10-2013, 08:03 AM
PFF (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/3/) ranked it 20th for pass blocking and 4th for run blocking; 11th overall:


11. New York Giants

Stud: Though he gets next to no praise, Will Beatty (+22.4) had a year that warranted Pro Bowl consideration. The penalties aren’t ideal, but there are not many left tackles who can keep their quarterback upright and generate movement in the run game.

Dud: It was David Diehl (-6.2) again, but the truth is he actually performed a lot better in the second half of the season compared to the liability we’ve known him to be.

Summary: A big improvement from this line, which was terrible in 2011. They made a big contribution in the running game while ensuring Eli Manning faced significantly less pressure. Still, this line is in transition to a degree with a few of players getting to that age where the cliff is approaching.

B&RWarrior
05-10-2013, 08:05 AM
There is no way we had the 3rd best pass blocking line in the NFL. Our run blocking last year was a little above average, but not much.

Slip showed me those run blocking stats too. The problem with the stats is that it doesn't account for consistent play. Our run blocking was inconsistent. I don't think the run blocking will improve much w/o new blood. I'm not sure Pugh is an upgrade for our run blocking.

slipknottin
05-10-2013, 08:10 AM
Slip showed me those run blocking stats too. The problem with the stats is that it doesn't account for consistent play. Our run blocking was inconsistent. I don't think the run blocking will improve much w/o new blood. I'm not sure Pugh is an upgrade for our run blocking.

Consistent play is exactly what it measures.

slipknottin
05-10-2013, 08:11 AM
There is no way we had the 3rd best pass blocking line in the NFL. Our run blocking last year was a little above average, but not much.

The giants run blocking was very good last year no matter how you measure it stats wise.

B&RWarrior
05-10-2013, 08:14 AM
Consistent play is exactly what it measures.


This must be a different article. The one I'm referring too measures percentage of runs that fit into a certain category. It wasn't on this thread. It most definitely did not measure consistency.

B&RWarrior
05-10-2013, 08:25 AM
Consistent play is exactly what it measures.

This is the same article you posted before and it doesn't measure consistency. It takes of a percentage of runs that fit into a certain category, then ranks them. It does NOT tell you what game these stats where achieved and whether their was consistent achievement of these marks throughout games. It's not going to do this because our run blocking wasn't consistent. The stats are also flawed because a great running back, or a RB that is elusive will make the line seem good and the article says as much.

I thought our running game was better than in 2011, but it was far from great.

B&RWarrior
05-10-2013, 08:46 AM
I just skimmed through the stats game by game. For the most part Slip is right, we had success running. Even when we got smoked by ATL we ran the ball well. Still we struggled against the Eagles in the first game. We didn't run well against the Skins in either game and the Ravens shut down the run as did the Steelers.

I say good but not very good in most games. I still didn't get the feeling that we had a power running game last year.

slipknottin
05-10-2013, 10:08 AM
This must be a different article. The one I'm referring too measures percentage of runs that fit into a certain category. It wasn't on this thread. It most definitely did not measure consistency.

It measures EVERY run. And ranks them according to success. Once it is done for the entire league then they average it out, so you get a value that equates to how much better or worse that player or position is compared to an average player.

It inherently measures consistency. And they calculate in the defense played as well.

slipknottin
05-10-2013, 10:10 AM
Even more impressive. The giants were the best running team in the league between the guards. So the talk of Baas being poor? Wrong. The talk of Snee and Boothe being old and ineffective? Very wrong.

The giants were top 10 running behind Beatty as well.

Running to the right is where they struggled most, ranked only 20th there.

So that's where you plug in Pugh.


Also. While measured on a play by play basis, Andre brown was the most consistent and best runner in the league last season by a large margin. He just did not have enough carries to qualify on their top HB list

flashnando
05-10-2013, 10:49 AM
i got to agree with the o-line comments! if these guys dont gel it will be hard for the offense to be consistent!

Come now guys!!! lets give the team a chance! Let them practice this offseason and see what develops throught the summer. This next upcoming season we might be surprised and see a great O-Line.

B&RWarrior
05-10-2013, 02:57 PM
It measures EVERY run. And ranks them according to success. Once it is done for the entire league then they average it out, so you get a value that equates to how much better or worse that player or position is compared to an average player.

It inherently measures consistency. And they calculate in the defense played as well.

Slip the study is flawed. I read the link that gave a detailed explanation which confirmed my opinion that I originally held about the ranking system. The stats they do used aren't quite arbitrary but the logic is questionable.

You don't have to be an actuary to see the flaws:
1)The guy makes some really broad assumprtions about player knowledge and what constitutes a legitimate run. The study doesnít count QB runs because most of them come from busted running plays, but if you watch Skins, Seattle, and the 49ers then that assumption is clearly wrong.
2)They give a greater responsibility to runs that end in a loss of yards to the offensive line automatically whether or not it was the line's fault. So when the holes are open and AB is dancing and misses the hole the Oline would incorrectly be penalized, or if the running back dodged 3 would be tacklers in the backfield and sprinted for a 10 yard gain then the Oline is incorrectly rewarded.
3)Consistency is not measured. Every run is measured, but the study doesn't account for what game the runs happened. There is no measurement of game to game performance.

These are just a few of the flaws but there were more. Football canít be quantified and give a 100% accurate picture of what went on.

slipknottin
05-10-2013, 04:48 PM
So essentially your argument is that Bradshaw is the next Barry sanders?

And they do take into account game by game, and adjust for strength of defense

NYGdraftMIND
05-10-2013, 07:02 PM
In reading your posts. You are by far the most optimistically-homerish giants fan. Which is a good thing I guess, need more fans like you. Would join you, but I hate the crash when reality hits. Don't know how you do it, but keep it up man, inspire the masses.

B&RWarrior
05-10-2013, 10:09 PM
So essentially your argument is that Bradshaw is the next Barry sanders?

And they do take into account game by game, and adjust for strength of defense

Slip I'll let it go, but your wrong on this one. LOL no AB is not Barry but he has made several great 1 or 2 yard runs in the past 2 years that were great because of the number of tacklers he eluded in the backfield or tackles he broke behind the line of scrimmage. This system would give the O-line credit for those runs.

jomo
05-10-2013, 10:15 PM
yeah, but the offensive line? unprovenUnfortunately, the OL is proven. :(

giants8493
05-11-2013, 12:08 AM
In the passing game and run game.

QB: Eli ----- Nassib


WR: Nicks ----- Cruz ----- Randle ----- Murphy

TE: Myers ----- Robinson ----- Pascoe


RB: Wilson ----- Brown ----- Scott?




Are we one of the youngest teams in the league now? We have to be close. The drastic infuse of young talent we have on this roster is ridiculous.

Wilson and Brown have the talent and skill set to be one of the best dynamic RB tandems in the league.

Both Wilson and Brown have a mix of everything.

Wilson is SPEED but also has power and can take contact with the best of them and STILL stay on his feet for a ton more YAC.
Brown is POWER but also has speed and INVITES contact :) .. Brown may be better suited for short yardage but don't be fooled.

Both can be receiving threats.



This offense is shaping up to be the most prolific dynamic offense we've ever had in franchise history.

While we lost Bennett's stretch the field ability we gained more security in Myers hands.Eli is old and so is the line for the most part.

giants8493
05-11-2013, 12:09 AM
Even more impressive. The giants were the best running team in the league between the guards. So the talk of Baas being poor? Wrong. The talk of Snee and Boothe being old and ineffective? Very wrong.

The giants were top 10 running behind Beatty as well.

Running to the right is where they struggled most, ranked only 20th there.

So that's where you plug in Pugh.


Also. While measured on a play by play basis, Andre brown was the most consistent and best runner in the league last season by a large margin. He just did not have enough carries to qualify on their top HB listwell yeah but didnt wilson lead all rookies in YPC?????????! ;)

giantsfan420
05-11-2013, 02:46 AM
slips right. the problem running was to the right side.
but, the rbs we carry also helped the OL out with their running styles.

StrahanSoup92
05-11-2013, 03:43 AM
The interior OL is old as balls...

Yeh we are actually one of the older teams in football.

BlueSanta
05-11-2013, 06:49 AM
Yeh we are actually one of the older teams in football.

we have the most players over 30 in the league.

SweetZombieJesus
05-11-2013, 09:18 AM
2012: 6th most points scored2011: 8th most points scored2010: 7th most points scored2009: 8th most points scoredBut please let's continue whining about the oline like we're the Bears or something.I refer you to the 2011 NFC Championship Game and Eli looking out of his ear hole