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RoanokeFan
05-11-2013, 08:10 AM
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/05/damontre_moore_being_groomed_t.html

Excerpt: "It’s called the "joker" position at Texas A&M, a hybrid linebacker/defensive end role in which Damontre Moore would rush from a stand-up position or with his hand on the ground.
Sound familiar?

The Giants have turned that job description into an art form with their use of Mathias Kiwanuka the past several seasons, and it seems the team has similar plans for Moore. He certainly has the résumé.

Moore, the Giants’ third-round pick (81st overall), had 12.5 sacks and 21 tackles for a loss last season as a junior. His 26.5 career sacks over three seasons rank sixth in school history. He finished with 45 tackles for a loss.

"My first two years, that’s all I did was stand-up rush," Moore said Friday during the first day of the Giants two-day rookie minicamp at the Timex Performance Center in East Rutherford. "Then, this year, I switched it up and did mainly hand down.

"Overall, I did more rushing standing up than with my hand on the ground throughout my college career. But I think with me having done both it gives me a good, diverse background to make that transition (to the NFL)." Read more...

RoanokeFan
05-11-2013, 08:10 AM
The answer to moving Kiwanuka back to full time DE

Toadofsteel
05-11-2013, 09:19 AM
The answer to moving Kiwanuka back to full time DE

Is apparently getting another Kiwi...

slipknottin
05-11-2013, 09:37 AM
Everyone is going to hate this because they won't know where to put him in madden.

Same reason they can't stand kiwi playing both

giantscolombia
05-11-2013, 10:18 AM
Hopefully this doesnt ruin his career like it did Kiwi's

Joe Morrison
05-11-2013, 10:35 AM
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Ladder27
05-11-2013, 10:43 AM
I do not know why but I feel something really good is going to come out of this Damontre Moore kid. Everything about him I like.

Captain Chaos
05-11-2013, 11:07 AM
I really don't think he has the speed to do well at the LB position.

GameTime
05-11-2013, 11:08 AM
I like when players can express themselves and actually sound like they went to school.....
Giants seems to go after players with smarts as well as physical skills....
Can hear that in Pugh as well

jomo
05-11-2013, 11:12 AM
I love the idea of a varied defensive scheme which keeps the offense guessing. Not sure we have the right guy designing those schemes, calling the D sets and making mid game adjustments to take full advantage of the flexibility it offers.

Redeyejedi
05-11-2013, 11:25 AM
I really don't think he has the speed to do well at the LB position.He isnt going to be expected to go sideline to sideline

B&RWarrior
05-11-2013, 11:38 AM
Sack artist. His best bet is to pack on some weight and try and become serviceable against the run.

ALLnygIN
05-11-2013, 11:49 AM
I hate when they do this. You want a linebaker get one! Don't take a defense of end and make him play hybrid.. It's just illogial.

WR4Life
05-11-2013, 11:52 AM
I hate when they do this. You want a linebacker get one! Don't take a defense of end and make him play hybrid.. It's just illogial.

Yeah I can't say I'm the biggest fan of this either. Not sure why we do this. Hopefully it works out for the best but who knows.

TheEnigma
05-11-2013, 12:01 PM
Yeah I can't say I'm the biggest fan of this either. Not sure why we do this. Hopefully it works out for the best but who knows.

The Seahawks sort of do this with Bruce Irvin (their 1st round pick in 2012) and managed to generate 8 sacks and a good amount of pressure out of the rookie by playing him in this hybrid role. If you watched the Packers-Seahawks game last year, you will recall Irvin was a huge part in keeping Rodgers from making those deep pass plays because he kept abusing the RT. Moore looked better on tape when he stood up and rushed the passer opposed to playing with his hand in the dirt so maybe this is what the Giants think they can get out of Moore.

G-Men Surg.
05-11-2013, 02:11 PM
The answer to moving Kiwanuka back to full time DE
For starters and of course this gives Fewell another weapon in Moore to keep the NASCAR alive. In all this keeps Perry Fewell D exotic and with lots of variables, lets not forget there's some young bucks waiting for an opportunity for playing time and could contribute in a nice rotation like Ojomo and Tracy. Oh yea I think Fewell is happy right now.

joemorrisforprez
05-11-2013, 02:57 PM
We should keep in mind that DaMontre Moore was a linebacker in college until they asked him to play DE his junior season. So, it's not like the Giants would be using him in a unfamiliar role.

From the link above:



"My first two years, that’s all I did was stand-up rush," Moore said Friday during the first day of the Giants two-day rookie minicamp at the Timex Performance Center in East Rutherford. "Then, this year, I switched it up and did mainly hand down.

"Overall, I did more rushing standing up than with my hand on the ground throughout my college career. But I think with me having done both it gives me a good, diverse background to make that transition (to the NFL)."



Personally, I'd love to see him used as a passing rushing OLB.....that's what Reese was looking for when he went after Sintim with a 2nd rounder. Unfortunately, Sintim suffered some serious injuries and it just didn't pan out.

I expect to see this kid alot on 3rd downs....whether he's set up as DE or OLB is less important to me, as long as he's heading to the QB. But frankly, when Fewell sends 5, Moore should be that 5th guy coming in from a stand up (OLB) position.

TheAnalyst
05-11-2013, 03:19 PM
I don't like it. This is what we did with Sintim. Just draft a damn LB if you want a LB and a DE if you want a DE. Kiwi was stunted because of this. Sintim never even panned out because of this. Not a fan of this.

Rush4Blitz2
05-11-2013, 03:27 PM
If he has the speed to get to the outside on run plays then I'm all for it. I just hope he is more athletic than Kiwi at that position.

giants8493
05-11-2013, 03:40 PM
He isnt going to be expected to go sideline to sidelineI expect him to.

joemorrisforprez
05-11-2013, 03:48 PM
I don't like it. This is what we did with Sintim. Just draft a damn LB if you want a LB and a DE if you want a DE. Kiwi was stunted because of this. Sintim never even panned out because of this. Not a fan of this.

I'm keeping an open mind.

Kiwi was a DE in college, not a linebacker like DaMontre Moore was.

Sintim never had the chance to show what he had because of knee problems.

GameTime
05-11-2013, 04:08 PM
its a wait and see. Not like Sintim at all. Sintim didnt wotk hard enough IMO, had injuries, and really couldnt figure the scheme....

Toadofsteel
05-11-2013, 05:38 PM
its a wait and see. Not like Sintim at all. Sintim didnt wotk hard enough IMO, had injuries, and really couldnt figure the scheme....

Well, Moore has a history of not working hard in practice, so I dunno...

Sovereign
05-11-2013, 05:45 PM
This article literally said nothing about him being groomed as a hybrid...

Reese said in an interview he expected Moore to be penciled in at DE. Of course things change but I really sincerely doubt they already have a plan day two of minicamp.

hugehomer
05-11-2013, 06:02 PM
Well, Moore has a history of not working hard in practice, so I dunno...


"If I can't practice, I can't practice. It is as simple as that. I ain't about that at all. It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about practice. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're talking about practice. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last, but we're talking about practice man. How silly is that?" - Allen Iverson

slipknottin
05-11-2013, 07:05 PM
its a wait and see. Not like Sintim at all. Sintim didnt wotk hard enough IMO, had injuries, and really couldnt figure the scheme....

Sintim just wasent physical and didn't like contact.

Just look at the difference between him and JPP on special teams. JPP was only 10 pounds bigger, but the fear he gave opposing players on kickoffs was amazing. Nobody would even attempt to block him often.

Sintim on the other hand never amounted to anything on ST, and was easily blocked by anyone, even guys smaller than him.

Reese called him out on it too, saying for someone who is 255 pounds he needs to be playing that way

Redeyejedi
05-11-2013, 07:52 PM
This is something that fascinates me on this board. I dont understand why everyone gets so caught up in what positions guy play. If a guy is a DE he cant stand up and be moved around. Wouldnt it be better for the Defense to have versatile players that can move around the defense to keep the offense off balance.Why does it matter where he gets his snaps

B&RWarrior
05-11-2013, 08:17 PM
We should keep in mind that DaMontre Moore was a linebacker in college until they asked him to play DE his junior season. So, it's not like the Giants would be using him in a unfamiliar role.

From the link above:



Personally, I'd love to see him used as a passing rushing OLB.....that's what Reese was looking for when he went after Sintim with a 2nd rounder. Unfortunately, Sintim suffered some serious injuries and it just didn't pan out.

I expect to see this kid alot on 3rd downs....whether he's set up as DE or OLB is less important to me, as long as he's heading to the QB. But frankly, when Fewell sends 5, Moore should be that 5th guy coming in from a stand up (OLB) position.

The last thing I want to see is this kid on 3rd down as a LB unless he's blitzing. They will motion the TE to his side and work him over every time just like they did Kiwi.

B&RWarrior
05-11-2013, 08:20 PM
This is something that fascinates me on this board. I dont understand why everyone gets so caught up in what positions guy play. If a guy is a DE he cant stand up and be moved around. Wouldnt it be better for the Defense to have versatile players that can move around the defense to keep the offense off balance.Why does it matter where he gets his snaps

because typically DE have difficulty turn their hips and changing directions, 2 very impotant skills in pass coverage. It's why opposing QBs loved to see Kiwi at LB on passing downs.

giantsfan420
05-11-2013, 08:44 PM
to be clear, he was never really a 4-3 OLB. He was a 3-4 OLB, which basically is just another term for 4-3 DE. That, and the player rushes from a standing position. That would fit what we do here to a T if we use him as a joker. Move him all over the LOS and bring the heat with him. That doesn't mean we don't use him to rush the passer with his hand in the dirt. its just about mixing things up and keeping offenses guessing.

my guess would be his first couple years, he will be this joker type de until he fills out his frame a bit and gets more NFL grown man strong. when he can handle snaps on a play by play basis w/o losing core strength/stamina, he will be our starting DE. Until then, we have guys who meet that need so no reason to rush/force that on Moore.

I am very excited about this pick. our pass rush needed help. if nothing else, lining him up opposite JPP and even outside JPPs shoulder, OL will not be able to key so heavily on him like last year. And if they do, Moore def. has the capability and skill set to burn offenses. This pick should also help Tuck out by giving him more snaps to rest and also helps Kiwi out in that the necessity for him to be caught up at DE like he never switched to LB is negated...This DL will remind us of the vaunted Giants pass rush we're used to, DT included.

drewz
05-11-2013, 09:03 PM
to be clear, he was never really a 4-3 OLB. He was a 3-4 OLB, which basically is just another term for 4-3 DE. That, and the player rushes from a standing position. That would fit what we do here to a T if we use him as a joker. Move him all over the LOS and bring the heat with him. That doesn't mean we don't use him to rush the passer with his hand in the dirt. its just about mixing things up and keeping offenses guessing.

my guess would be his first couple years, he will be this joker type de until he fills out his frame a bit and gets more NFL grown man strong. when he can handle snaps on a play by play basis w/o losing core strength/stamina, he will be our starting DE. Until then, we have guys who meet that need so no reason to rush/force that on Moore.

I am very excited about this pick. our pass rush needed help. if nothing else, lining him up opposite JPP and even outside JPPs shoulder, OL will not be able to key so heavily on him like last year. And if they do, Moore def. has the capability and skill set to burn offenses. This pick should also help Tuck out by giving him more snaps to rest and also helps Kiwi out in that the necessity for him to be caught up at DE like he never switched to LB is negated...This DL will remind us of the vaunted Giants pass rush we're used to, DT included.

Totally agree, in fact that's how they were using him in camp for past couple days

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton (https://twitter.com/art_stapleton)9h (https://twitter.com/art_stapleton/status/333239157113618432)
#NYG (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NYG&src=hash) are using Damontre Moore as a stand-up DE in this series: split out on TE in slot as LDE, rushing back side as RDE

RoanokeFan
05-11-2013, 09:07 PM
I like when players can express themselves and actually sound like they went to school.....
Giants seems to go after players with smarts as well as physical skills....
Can hear that in Pugh as well

A - ****ing - Men

slipknottin
05-11-2013, 10:02 PM
because typically DE have difficulty turn their hips and changing directions, 2 very impotant skills in pass coverage. It's why opposing QBs loved to see Kiwi at LB on passing downs.

If a pass rusher doesn't have lower body flexibility both in their hips and their ankles they will not be any good.

DEs inherently have to change direction

joemorrisforprez
05-11-2013, 11:33 PM
to be clear, he was never really a 4-3 OLB. He was a 3-4 OLB, which basically is just another term for 4-3 DE. That, and the player rushes from a standing position. That would fit what we do here to a T if we use him as a joker. Move him all over the LOS and bring the heat with him. That doesn't mean we don't use him to rush the passer with his hand in the dirt. its just about mixing things up and keeping offenses guessing.

my guess would be his first couple years, he will be this joker type de until he fills out his frame a bit and gets more NFL grown man strong. when he can handle snaps on a play by play basis w/o losing core strength/stamina, he will be our starting DE. Until then, we have guys who meet that need so no reason to rush/force that on Moore.

I am very excited about this pick. our pass rush needed help. if nothing else, lining him up opposite JPP and even outside JPPs shoulder, OL will not be able to key so heavily on him like last year. And if they do, Moore def. has the capability and skill set to burn offenses. This pick should also help Tuck out by giving him more snaps to rest and also helps Kiwi out in that the necessity for him to be caught up at DE like he never switched to LB is negated...This DL will remind us of the vaunted Giants pass rush we're used to, DT included.

Agree.

Between free agency and the draft, the Giants addressed the need to get stouter on the interior line....we need guys that have the speed to rush the passer, and get outside againts backs and mobile QBs......I'm fine with Moore's playing weight of 250.....this defense frankly needs more speed.

One of the biggest issues with the defense is they couldn't get their asses off the field....they were terrible at 3rd and long - obvious passing downs. So if Moore can help on 3rd downs, he's more than worth a 3rd down pick.

Toadofsteel
05-12-2013, 12:06 AM
Agree.

Between free agency and the draft, the Giants addressed the need to get stouter on the interior line....we need guys that have the speed to rush the passer, and get outside againts backs and mobile QBs......I'm fine with Moore's playing weight of 250.....this defense frankly needs more speed.

One of the biggest issues with the defense is they couldn't get their asses off the field....they were terrible at 3rd and long - obvious passing downs. So if Moore can help on 3rd downs, he's more than worth a 3rd down pick.

There are two things this defense must address: 1) contain the run game, 2) Stop the slant passes.

I think we addressed the interior DL fairly well this offseason, with Jenkins, Patterson, and Hankins. If even one of those pans out, we have a stout line across from Linval, with Kuhn rotating in. If we can rotate in two guys, that will be even more fantastic. On the DE side of things, just getting rid of Overpursuing Osi means we can put a guy in that can contain the run better (i'm hoping Kiwi can do that fairly well). So many of the runs that killed us were off-tackle runs (including option runs) off of Osi and/or Tuck. JPP, to his credit, was great against the run, and despite having effectively only 3 years of football experience, showed great discipline at that. If we can stop the power run game, we can also from there stop the option.

As for the slants, what we need more is that hybrid safety/linebacker that can cover a TE effectively... which I'm hoping Cooper Taylor can pan out to be just what we need. Too many times a slot receiver or TE could run a slant route, and the QB could release the ball from the gun or even just a 5 step drop and get the ball out before a completely free pass rusher could close the distance to make the sack. Offenses realized that our defense depends entirely on using pass rush to get to the QB before he released the ball, and so they designed quick offenses that could neutralize that threat...

miked1958
05-12-2013, 12:22 AM
Hey you never know.. Could be opposite of LT.... Who was a LB that lined up as a standing DE rushing off the end. This would be a DE standing up like a LB and rushing the qb off the end..

B&RWarrior
05-12-2013, 02:37 AM
If a pass rusher doesn't have lower body flexibility both in their hips and their ankles they will not be any good.

DEs inherently have to change direction

What DE changes direction as much as a LB? Not many, most DE's that move to LB get lost when they play in space or have to cover a TE or RB. It's a much higher level for a LB. LBs have great change of direction and loose hips, but compared to CBs its not even close.

Rat_bastich
05-12-2013, 06:03 AM
I like when players can express themselves and actually sound like they went to school.....
Giants seems to go after players with smarts as well as physical skills....
Can hear that in Pugh as well

And, then there was Manningham....


Also, if I am not mistaken wasn't Lawrence Taylor also a defensive end in college?

slipknottin
05-12-2013, 09:14 AM
What DE changes direction as much as a LB? Not many, most DE's that move to LB get lost when they play in space or have to cover a TE or RB. It's a much higher level for a LB. LBs have great change of direction and loose hips, but compared to CBs its not even close.

The reason for it isn't their lack of ability to change direction. It's just unfamiliarity with covering, not understanding how to play man or zone coverage.

Either way, nobody is saying that are putting Moore in man coverage on anyone, so it doesn't really matter

Redeyejedi
05-12-2013, 10:46 AM
The reason for it isn't their lack of ability to change direction. It's just unfamiliarity with covering, not understanding how to play man or zone coverage.

Either way, nobody is saying that are putting Moore in man coverage on anyone, so it doesn't really matter They will use him only in certain situations at LB. They arent going to put him out there in the Dime in the middle of the field or anything.He is just going to play close to the line like a 5-2 defense, be used as a blitzer, cover the flat like he did for Texas A&M, The Name LB or DE means nothing its the assignment that matters.

Redeyejedi
05-12-2013, 10:48 AM
The reason for it isn't their lack of ability to change direction. It's just unfamiliarity with covering, not understanding how to play man or zone coverage.

Either way, nobody is saying that are putting Moore in man coverage on anyone, so it doesn't really matter They will use him only in certain situations at LB. They arent going to put him out there in the Dime in the middle of the field or anything.He is just going to play close to the line like a 5-2 defense, be used as a blitzer, cover the flat like he did for Texas A&M, The Name LB or DE means nothing its the assignment that matters.

B&RWarrior
05-12-2013, 11:20 AM
The reason for it isn't their lack of ability to change direction. It's just unfamiliarity with covering, not understanding how to play man or zone coverage.

Either way, nobody is saying that are putting Moore in man coverage on anyone, so it doesn't really matter

I just feel like Kiwi was the same type of guy. So we should know what situations Moore will be successful at. I felt Kiwi had enough time at LB to get familiar with the role, but he just didn't have the skill set to excel in coverage, to the point where we started taking him out of the game on running downs when he was at LB.

I think at 265-270 lbs Moore can be a 3 down DE for us.

slipknottin
05-12-2013, 11:22 AM
I just feel like Kiwi was the same type of guy. So we should know what situations Moore will be successful at. I felt Kiwi had enough time at LB to get familiar with the role, but he just didn't have the skill set to excel in coverage, to the point where we started taking him out of the game on running downs when he was at LB.

I think at 265-270 lbs Moore can be a 3 down DE for us.

They didn't take kiwi out on running downs until this last season. Before then there is little doubt he was the best Lb on the roster against the run. And he played pretty well in coverage as well.

I still think that people are getting confused. They aren't asking Moore to move to LB.

B&RWarrior
05-12-2013, 11:30 AM
They didn't take kiwi out on running downs until this last season. Before then there is little doubt he was the best Lb on the roster against the run. And he played pretty well in coverage as well.

I still think that people are getting confused. They aren't asking Moore to move to LB.

I meant to say they would take Kiwi out on passing downs. Kiwi was the best run stopping LB we have for sure. Slip, Kiwi was no where near pretty good in coverage. Brutal is more like it. Even Carl Banks commented how he looked lost sometimes when he had to make plays in coverage.

Yeah, that's what it sounded like, like they were lining him up for a traditional SAM or WLB role. Forget that, let's just put some weight on the kid and play him where he can be great.

slipknottin
05-12-2013, 12:04 PM
I meant to say they would take Kiwi out on passing downs. Kiwi was the best run stopping LB we have for sure. Slip, Kiwi was no where near pretty good in coverage. Brutal is more like it. Even Carl Banks commented how he looked lost sometimes when he had to make plays in coverage.

Yeah, that's what it sounded like, like they were lining him up for a traditional SAM or WLB role. Forget that, let's just put some weight on the kid and play him where he can be great.

Teams always take one of their LBs off the field on passing downs, usually the Sam. That's not because the giants had kiwi there. And he would occasionally get turned around but in 11 he was quite solid in all aspects. Certainly not a coverage LB, but he wasent expected to do that.


And all the talk is to use him as a joker. Which isn't a SAM LB.

B&RWarrior
05-12-2013, 12:11 PM
Teams always take one of their LBs off the field on passing downs, usually the Sam. That's not because the giants had kiwi there. And he would occasionally get turned around but in 11 he was quite solid in all aspects. Certainly not a coverage LB, but he wasent expected to do that.


And all the talk is to use him as a joker. Which isn't a SAM LB.

Slice it anyway you want to Kiwi was a liability on passing downs. What's a joker?

slipknottin
05-12-2013, 12:21 PM
Slice it anyway you want to Kiwi was a liability on passing downs. What's a joker?

A standing defensive end. Who is moved to multiple spots to create a mismatch against blockers


But like I said, the forum will complain about a guy who plays multiple spots because they can't set their madden roster. Makes no sense at all. If you can get a player who can play against the run well from the LB spot, and play defensive end on passing downs then that's a two for one. Not the massive failure some here believe. You don't need a 3 down Sam, because the Sam doesn't play three downs!

B&RWarrior
05-12-2013, 12:37 PM
A standing defensive end. Who is moved to multiple spots to create a mismatch against blockers


But like I said, the forum will complain about a guy who plays multiple spots because they can't set their madden roster. Makes no sense at all. If you can get a player who can play against the run well from the LB spot, and play defensive end on passing downs then that's a two for one. Not the massive failure some here believe. You don't need a 3 down Sam, because the Sam doesn't play three downs!

It would make perfect sense if they brought him in for the joker role, but I just think with 10-15 more lbs he could be Tuck's replacement- a really good one too.

NorwoodBlue
05-12-2013, 01:37 PM
I think we should assign him number 94a, since we won't be able to tell the difference between him and Kiwi anyhow.

Redeyejedi
05-13-2013, 07:54 AM
It would make perfect sense if they brought him in for the joker role, but I just think with 10-15 more lbs he could be Tuck's replacement- a really good one too.and maybe he will be down the line

egyptian420
05-13-2013, 12:06 PM
I hope they don't make the same mistake with him as we did with Kiwi. I like Kiwi but I think we mismanaged his abilities and imo he would've had a better career had he stayed as a DE full time.

This might be different however since Moore actually played LB. I just hope he's used to the best of his ability, this kid was a beast in college.

Giant303
05-13-2013, 02:56 PM
Look at all these Defensive Coordinators go. How about we wait until we see this kid on the field before stating where he should play etc. I think he's going to be great for the pass rush...stand up hand down sit down..whatever this kid knows how to find the QB.

njg85m
05-13-2013, 03:45 PM
If it works I'm fine with it, but I don't really like our history with DE/LB's.

JsBigBlue
05-14-2013, 01:02 AM
Im ok with it...Kinda saw this coming with Osi leaving and Kiwi getting the green light back to DE...Perry likes his Joker because it gives him more options and it keeps the best players on the field at the same time. Hopefully Moore can do a lil better job at it then Kiwi did tho.

JJC7301
05-14-2013, 01:47 AM
I love the idea of a varied defensive scheme which keeps the offense guessing. Not sure we have the right guy designing those schemes, calling the D sets and making mid game adjustments to take full advantage of the flexibility it offers.
+1. I love the concept, but I don't trust Fewell to design the schemes. I hate feeling that way because the D played great under him on the way to SB 46, but I haven't been impressed outside of that.

Then again, maybe the players just stink.

Kruunch
05-14-2013, 09:25 AM
He isnt going to be expected to go sideline to sideline

I do worry about trying a DE who is weak against the run at the SAM position though.

Picture Osi playing SAM.

GiantPride13
05-14-2013, 09:31 AM
I hate when they do this. You want a linebaker get one! Don't take a defense of end and make him play hybrid.. It's just illogial.

they arent taking a DE and making him play LB. this is the same role hes been playing for three years at A&M so hes comfortable with it

Giant303
05-14-2013, 02:05 PM
they arent taking a DE and making him play LB. this is the same role hes been playing for three years at A&M so hes comfortable with it

yeah people aren't even looking at the kid's entire career at A&M where he played stand up OLB for 2 years and DE last year. His DE wasn't even a true DE since he was a late rusher a lot of times. The pedigree for this kid to be great is there. Played behind Von Miller arguably one of the Best Rushers in the league. Went up against top talent in practice. Really really looking forward to this kid as a SLB that rushes predominantly and hopefully grows into a complete player.