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Scoobie-Doo
05-13-2013, 07:01 PM
I do not know how you guys feel about Tisch but he's becoming a little to Jim Irsay/ Jerry Jones for my liking. Wish he would just enjoy being rich and keep his mouth shut, Maybe take a page out of Mara's playbook.

Anyone else notice this?

TCHOF
05-13-2013, 07:09 PM
Have no idea what he was thinking commenting on the Jets/Tebow situation today.

Flip Empty
05-13-2013, 07:11 PM
Tisch made those comments to TMZ, too - why even bother with a gossip site?


I wish both of them would keep quiet.

giantyankee1976
05-13-2013, 07:12 PM
8 Championships and co-owning a League Pillar might have something to do with it?

scoopscj
05-13-2013, 10:26 PM
You'll rarely see Mara down on the sidelines or talking to the media. Tisch seems to relish being on the sidelines and media. I wish he'd be more like Mara and hang in the background. Having said that, you can tell he really does love his team and he is a big fan as well as an owner. Honestly, if it was your team, wouidn't you want to be on the sidelines once in a while?

Scoops

ashleymarie
05-13-2013, 10:33 PM
I would like to be in a warm booth, but that is just me. Since Tisch loves the excitement on the sidelines I see no harm in him enjoying himself, being with his players, taking in the sound of the fans. No harm at all.

egyptian420
05-13-2013, 10:35 PM
I don't mind him being on the sidelines or the comments he made but the Mara style is more ideal to me if I was an owner. You're a billionaire, act like one.

joemorrisforprez
05-13-2013, 10:35 PM
I think Tisch is totally underrated. I remember before Tisch's dad bought out Wellington's nephew....this team was a freak show.....Wellington wasn't even on speaking terms with his co-owner.

Yeah, he likes to get a little rockstar, but he's paid the price of admission.

Roosevelt
05-13-2013, 10:43 PM
I think Tisch is totally underrated. I remember before Tisch's dad bought out Wellington's nephew....this team was a freak show.....Wellington wasn't even on speaking terms with his co-owner.

Yeah, he likes to get a little rockstar, but he's paid the price of admission.

That has nothing to do with him.

joemorrisforprez
05-13-2013, 10:46 PM
That has nothing to do with him.

My point is that he's carried on well for his father, which in turn was a **** load better than before the Tisch's owned 1/2 of the Giants.

jomo
05-13-2013, 10:49 PM
I think Tisch is totally underrated. I remember before Tisch's dad bought out Wellington's nephew....this team was a freak show.....Wellington wasn't even on speaking terms with his co-owner.

Yeah, he likes to get a little rockstar, but he's paid the price of admission.I have a completely different recollection of when and why Bob Tisch came into the ownership picture.

joemorrisforprez
05-13-2013, 10:57 PM
I have a completely different recollection of when and why Bob Tisch came into the ownership picture.

It took Pete Rozelle to get involved in ending the dysfunction by hiring George Young as the GM and effective head of operations....he in turn hired Ray Perkins, which lead to Parcells, etc.

But Wellington and Tim Mara (Jack's son) didn't get along at all.

jomo
05-14-2013, 12:10 AM
It took Pete Rozelle to get involved in ending the dysfunction by hiring George Young as the GM and effective head of operations....he in turn hired Ray Perkins, which lead to Parcells, etc.

But Wellington and Tim Mara (Jack's son) didn't get along at all.Alright here are some facts for you and a correct timeline. Bob Tisch bought into the Giants family in 1991 years after Roselle stepped in. In fact, you mention Ray Perkins being part of the fix. He was but you didn't mention that Perkins came to the Giants in 1979 a full 12 years before Tisch became an owner and 5 years after a Super Bowl victory by the Giants. Your comments about Wellington's relationship with Tim are correct but the organization was largely fixed before Tisch came on the scene and by that time Wellington had total control of the operations. By 1991, the Giants franchise had balooned in value and Tim was dying. Although the Giants were worth alot, Wellington did not have the liquid resources to buy out his cousin. He needed a wealthy white knight if you will to ease the burden of ownership transition. That lead him to Bob Tisch who was a classy, accomplished and totally New York kind of guy. Tisch understood his place as the "second family" in the ownership heirearchy despite his 50% ownership state. His son, who did not "pay the price of entry" as you suggest actually inherited his stake. That is the story and timeline as I recall it.

Redeyejedi
05-14-2013, 08:44 AM
NY Giants co-owner Steve Tisch feels bad for Tim Tebow, says NY Jets were bad fit for quarterback

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/giants-owner-jets-ruined-tebow-career-article-1.1342546#ixzz2TGpgpSuc

fansince69
05-14-2013, 09:01 AM
Alright here are some facts for you and a correct timeline. Bob Tisch bought into the Giants family in 1991 years after Roselle stepped in. In fact, you mention Ray Perkins being part of the fix. He was but you didn't mention that Perkins came to the Giants in 1979 a full 12 years before Tisch became an owner and 5 years after a Super Bowl victory by the Giants. Your comments about Wellington's relationship with Tim are correct but the organization was largely fixed before Tisch came on the scene and by that time Wellington had total control of the operations. By 1991, the Giants franchise had balooned in value and Tim was dying. Although the Giants were worth alot, Wellington did not have the liquid resources to buy out his cousin. He needed a wealthy white knight if you will to ease the burden of ownership transition. That lead him to Bob Tisch who was a classy, accomplished and totally New York kind of guy. Tisch understood his place as the "second family" in the ownership heirearchy despite his 50% ownership state. His son, who did not "pay the price of entry" as you suggest actually inherited his stake. That is the story and timeline as I recall it.This sounds quite accurate to me

joemorrisforprez
05-14-2013, 09:01 AM
Alright here are some facts for you and a correct timeline. Bob Tisch bought into the Giants family in 1991 years after Roselle stepped in. In fact, you mention Ray Perkins being part of the fix. He was but you didn't mention that Perkins came to the Giants in 1979 a full 12 years before Tisch became an owner and 5 years after a Super Bowl victory by the Giants. Your comments about Wellington's relationship with Tim are correct but the organization was largely fixed before Tisch came on the scene and by that time Wellington had total control of the operations. By 1991, the Giants franchise had balooned in value and Tim was dying. Although the Giants were worth alot, Wellington did not have the liquid resources to buy out his cousin. He needed a wealthy white knight if you will to ease the burden of ownership transition. That lead him to Bob Tisch who was a classy, accomplished and totally New York kind of guy. Tisch understood his place as the "second family" in the ownership heirearchy despite his 50% ownership state. His son, who did not "pay the price of entry" as you suggest actually inherited his stake. That is the story and timeline as I recall it.

I don't see anything in your account that contradicts what I said. I was speaking in more general terms, because frankly, I wasn't expecting to have what I said dissected like a National Security Report. But the fact remains that the relationship between the Maras was ice cold.

Yes, Tisch inherited his stake....so did John Mara. The fact is, he owns the team, and therefore, has a "ticket" to the the show....in other words, as an NFL owner, he has a platform to talk about NFL news, including players.

My original point was that I think Tisch is an excellent owner, and I base that on a comparsion of his working relationship with John Mara, which is excellent, to the working relationship between Wellington and Tim Mara, which was toxic before George Young, and was non-existent even after Young started to turn things around.

ashleymarie
05-14-2013, 09:26 AM
Thanks guys for the history lessons. I wasn't aware of all the facts presented here. Good to learn about the other side of the Giants. GO BLUE!

Morehead State
05-14-2013, 09:37 AM
I don't see anything in your account that contradicts what I said. I was speaking in more general terms, because frankly, I wasn't expecting to have what I said dissected like a National Security Report. But the fact remains that the relationship between the Maras was ice cold.

Yes, Tisch inherited his stake....so did John Mara. The fact is, he owns the team, and therefore, has a "ticket" to the the show....in other words, as an NFL owner, he has a platform to talk about NFL news, including players.

My original point was that I think Tisch is an excellent owner, and I base that on a comparsion of his working relationship with John Mara, which is excellent, to the working relationship between Wellington and Tim Mara, which was toxic before George Young, and was non-existent even after Young started to turn things around.

I agree that both the Mara's and Tisch's have been great owning families for the Giants.
We're pretty darn lucky in that respect actually.

TheAnalyst
05-14-2013, 09:41 AM
As long as he doesnt get involved in the day to day operations like Jerry Jones or Al Davis did, we should be OK. I dont want to draft someone because Tisch wanted the guy. That is when you turn into the Raiders or Cowboys.

fansince69
05-14-2013, 09:41 AM
I agree that both the Mara's and Tisch's have been great owning families for the Giants.
We're pretty darn lucky in that respect actually.Are you saying you wouldn't trade the Mara?Tisch combo for say, Jerry Jones?

Morehead State
05-14-2013, 09:43 AM
Are you saying you wouldn't trade the Mara?Tisch combo for say, Jerry Jones?
I think that would be a safe bet.

ashleymarie
05-14-2013, 10:50 AM
I think that would be a safe bet.

;)

MattMeyerBud
05-14-2013, 12:06 PM
You'll rarely see Mara down on the sidelines or talking to the media. Tisch seems to relish being on the sidelines and media. I wish he'd be more like Mara and hang in the background. Having said that, you can tell he really does love his team and he is a big fan as well as an owner. Honestly, if it was your team, wouidn't you want to be on the sidelines once in a while?

Scoops

I hate to say it, if I was an owner I would probably be more like Jerry Jones than Mara

:(

fansince69
05-14-2013, 12:08 PM
I hate to say it, if I was an owner I would probably be more like Jerry Jones than Mara

:(I do not think you are much different than most people on this board......We all think we know more than the front office....lol

jomo
05-14-2013, 12:42 PM
I don't see anything in your account that contradicts what I said. I was speaking in more general terms, because frankly, I wasn't expecting to have what I said dissected like a National Security Report. But the fact remains that the relationship between the Maras was ice cold.

Yes, Tisch inherited his stake....so did John Mara. The fact is, he owns the team, and therefore, has a "ticket" to the the show....in other words, as an NFL owner, he has a platform to talk about NFL news, including players.

My original point was that I think Tisch is an excellent owner, and I base that on a comparsion of his working relationship with John Mara, which is excellent, to the working relationship between Wellington and Tim Mara, which was toxic before George Young, and was non-existent even after Young started to turn things around.I can sometimes make my point too complicated so let me try to simplify it. I wasn't trying to pick at this or that in your previous post. I was really addressing your main point which said: I think Tisch is totally underrated. I remember before Tisch's dad bought out Wellington's nephew....this team was a freak show..... What I am saying is that the sale to Tisch did not end the disfunctionality that you describe in the Giants organization. George Young came to us in 1979 and Perkins in 1984 and Tisch didn't buy stock until 1991 almost 12 years after Young came in and put the adults back in charge. We were a finely tuned machine with Parcells as head coach as well. So Tisch coming here resolved some looming estate issues for the Maras with Tim being gravely ill but it did not solve the dysfuntional team which was brought under control by Young et al more than a decade earlier. I am not arguing that Bob Tisch's money didn't solve a big problem for Wellington or that we were a nightmare as an organization before George Young arrived. I am just saying that Tisch had no part in returning pride and success to this organization coming out of that dark era..

joemorrisforprez
05-14-2013, 01:02 PM
I can sometimes make my point too complicated so let me try to simplify it. I wasn't trying to pick at this or that in your previous post. I was really addressing your main point which said: I think Tisch is totally underrated. I remember before Tisch's dad bought out Wellington's nephew....this team was a freak show..... What I am saying is that the sale to Tisch did not end the disfunctionality that you describe in the Giants organization. George Young came to us in 1979 and Perkins in 1984 and Tisch didn't buy stock until 1991 almost 12 years after Young came in and put the adults back in charge. We were a finely tuned machine with Parcells as head coach as well. So Tisch coming here resolved some looming estate issues for the Maras with Tim being gravely ill but it did not solve the dysfuntional team which was brought under control by Young et al more than a decade earlier. I am not arguing that Bob Tisch's money didn't solve a big problem for Wellington or that we were a nightmare as an organization before George Young arrived. I am just saying that Tisch had no part in returning pride and success to this organization coming out of that dark era..

I remember back when the Giants won in 1990..... Wellington Mara and Tim Mara couldn't even stand next to eachother, or be interviewed together. To clarify my comment, when I'm saying the team was a freak show, I'm referring to the ownership dynamic.....although for a long period, the entire team was in disarray prior to Rozelle bringing Young in to stabilize the NFL's flagship team.

I agree that George Young brought stability to the organization....but he had too much control, and that was because of the toxic relationship between Wellington and Tim Mara. It helped to lead him to make a series of profoundly dumb decisions that essentially deconstructed what could have been a dynasty.

SweetZombieJesus
05-14-2013, 01:09 PM
Alright here are some facts for you and a correct timeline. Bob Tisch bought into the Giants family in 1991 years after Roselle stepped in. In fact, you mention Ray Perkins being part of the fix. He was but you didn't mention that Perkins came to the Giants in 1979 a full 12 years before Tisch became an owner and 5 years after a Super Bowl victory by the Giants. Your comments about Wellington's relationship with Tim are correct but the organization was largely fixed before Tisch came on the scene and by that time Wellington had total control of the operations. By 1991, the Giants franchise had balooned in value and Tim was dying. Although the Giants were worth alot, Wellington did not have the liquid resources to buy out his cousin. He needed a wealthy white knight if you will to ease the burden of ownership transition. That lead him to Bob Tisch who was a classy, accomplished and totally New York kind of guy. Tisch understood his place as the "second family" in the ownership heirearchy despite his 50% ownership state. His son, who did not "pay the price of entry" as you suggest actually inherited his stake. That is the story and timeline as I recall it.

Well said.

To add color, Wellington and Tim had a partition put in the owner's box and would not be in the same room at the same time. And this is during the Parcells glory days, too. Watch the 1986 NFC Championship and Super Bowl trophy presentations they cut to commercial when one disappears and the other appears. I think in the 1990 NFC Championship Game presentation they were on the platform at the same time but on opposite sides.

The Tisch family has been pretty good at being the "silent" partners but yes Steve has been doing a little showboating. I think part of it is Steve looking to find or create a position for himself.

The Maras are supposed to handle football operations and the Tisches are supposed to handle the business. I wish they would concentrate on the marketing (in a positive way) to get the franchise value up where it belongs but stay classy about it.

SweetZombieJesus
05-14-2013, 01:13 PM
Also I'll add John Mara has much of his dad in him, but he does get very irritated particularly by the Jets (after the frustration of jointly building the new stadium). Woody Johnson really seems to piss him off. Then add in Ryan's crowing, the big Eli hit, covering up the super bowl logo wall, etc.

Wellington suffered in silence. John is clearly seething but managing to hold himself back, aside from some subtle quips. I think Steve is just venting some of that resentment that the entire organization feels.

Morehead State
05-14-2013, 01:25 PM
I hate to say it, if I was an owner I would probably be more like Jerry Jones than Mara

:(
Yes Matt....we know.

gmen46
05-14-2013, 01:27 PM
I do not know how you guys feel about Tisch but he's becoming a little to Jim Irsay/ Jerry Jones for my liking. Wish he would just enjoy being rich and keep his mouth shut, Maybe take a page out of Mara's playbook.

Anyone else notice this?

Tisch makes--at the most--maybe a half dozen public remarks a year about his team or something relating to the NFL. and you want to compare him to Irsay (Tweet Master) and Jerry Jones? Are you mad?

And by the way, was there a single word in his comments about the Jets/Tebow debacle that is inaccurate, demeaning to the player or to the Giants, or that you or anyone on this board can legitimately disagree with?

Tebow's been a free agent for at least a month now, and the only responses he's had from professional football teams has been from the CFL team that holds his rights in Canada (for a back up QB position, no less), from Jaworsky's new AFL team. from the women's pro league (formerly the "Lingerie League)., and a lengthy interview with the new, eccentric owner of the Jaguars about why the Jags did not want him or the media circus that comes with him.

Here we have one of our co owners, in a relatively rare public statement expressing some sympathy for the guy--while at the same time taking a mild swipe at his stadium co owner and city rival--and you put him in the same class as Jones. "Absurd" is the only word I can come up with concerning your comparison, but it doesn't do it justice.

jomo
05-14-2013, 01:28 PM
Also I'll add John Mara has much of his dad in him, but he does get very irritated particularly by the Jets (after the frustration of jointly building the new stadium). Woody Johnson really seems to piss him off. Then add in Ryan's crowing, the big Eli hit, covering up the super bowl logo wall, etc.

Wellington suffered in silence. John is clearly seething but managing to hold himself back, aside from some subtle quips. I think Steve is just venting some of that resentment that the entire organization feels.I'm OK with that.

jomo
05-14-2013, 01:32 PM
I remember back when the Giants won in 1990..... Wellington Mara and Tim Mara couldn't even stand next to eachother, or be interviewed together. To clarify my comment, when I'm saying the team was a freak show, I'm referring to the ownership dynamic.....although for a long period, the entire team was in disarray prior to Rozelle bringing Young in to stabilize the NFL's flagship team.

I agree that George Young brought stability to the organization....but he had too much control, and that was because of the toxic relationship between Wellington and Tim Mara. It helped to lead him to make a series of profoundly dumb decisions that essentially deconstructed what could have been a dynasty.The chilliness between the two was there until the end, I agree. I can also see how you separate team dysfunction from ownership dysfunction. It is just that you introduced names like Young and Perkins so I thought you were speaking of the issues as one. In the end, Tisch was brought in to stabilize the financial transition that was coming after Tim passed. He wasn't brought in to bring harmony to the equation. Addition by subtraction happened but it would have never happened without the looming financial estate crisis.

GameTime
05-14-2013, 02:03 PM
I hate to say it, if I was an owner I would probably be more like Jerry Jones than Mara

:(
would you realize that you sucked as a GM and step back or would you keep ****ing up your team????

GameTime
05-14-2013, 02:08 PM
I met Steve aTisch a few times during a some business the company I work for and his. This is when he first got active within the Giants org. Before that he was a hollywood guy/ Movie producer. He was like a kid in a candy store the way he talked about the team. He readidly admitted he had a lot to learn about the NFL and the org. His assistent did say he may "hollywood" up the team tho....:)

joemorrisforprez
05-14-2013, 02:13 PM
The chilliness between the two was there until the end, I agree. I can also see how you separate team dysfunction from ownership dysfunction. It is just that you introduced names like Young and Perkins so I thought you were speaking of the issues as one. In the end, Tisch was brought in to stabilize the financial transition that was coming after Tim passed. He wasn't brought in to bring harmony to the equation. Addition by subtraction happened but it would have never happened without the looming financial estate crisis.

Looking back, I probably should have identified the ownership schism more specifically. But for a long time, the ownership issue clouded everything, and the entire team stunk for a long time (18 years between playoff berths, for example).

I agree the Tisch move (buying out Tim) was financial, but I also think think the ownership situation needed to be resolved for the benefit of the team.

George Young helped this team win 2 Super Bowls......but Young had too much control, because the ownership situation was unhealthy. As a result, issues developed between him and Parcells that were never properly resolved. Parcells left......Young made it clear that Belichick was not going to be the successor to Parcells, so off goes Belichick. Coughlin left for BC, and I'm sure he made his decision based in part of what he though his best career options were.....he was a "Parcells guy", and it was pretty clear that the new coach was going to be a "George Young" guy......and that was Ray Handley.

I don't mean to turn this into a George Young bashing thread......he deserves a ton of credit for turning around the Giants franchise and restoring them to glory. But he also made a series of bad moves that sank the team for years.

It wasn't until after he left that the team was able to realign itself to what I think is now the model for an NFL (partnership-based) franchise: Partners that get along, and are hands-off, but vigilant; a great GM (both Accorsi and Reese deserve the title "great"); great coaching staff; franchise QB; and a solid core of championship-level veterans.

DownWitJPP
05-14-2013, 02:39 PM
i don't see anything wrong with what Tisch said. What did he say that was so wrong? that he feels bad for Tebow and that him going to the Jets didn't benefit either side? anyone with an once of common sense can see that. Now I don't think Tebow is a NFL caliber QB, but i do believe going to the Jets hurt him more than it helped

jomo
05-14-2013, 03:14 PM
Looking back, I probably should have identified the ownership schism more specifically. But for a long time, the ownership issue clouded everything, and the entire team stunk for a long time (18 years between playoff berths, for example).

I agree the Tisch move (buying out Tim) was financial, but I also think think the ownership situation needed to be resolved for the benefit of the team.

George Young helped this team win 2 Super Bowls......but Young had too much control, because the ownership situation was unhealthy. As a result, issues developed between him and Parcells that were never properly resolved. Parcells left......Young made it clear that Belichick was not going to be the successor to Parcells, so off goes Belichick. Coughlin left for BC, and I'm sure he made his decision based in part of what he though his best career options were.....he was a "Parcells guy", and it was pretty clear that the new coach was going to be a "George Young" guy......and that was Ray Handley.

I don't mean to turn this into a George Young bashing thread......he deserves a ton of credit for turning around the Giants franchise and restoring them to glory. But he also made a series of bad moves that sank the team for years.

It wasn't until after he left that the team was able to realign itself to what I think is now the model for an NFL (partnership-based) franchise: Partners that get along, and are hands-off, but vigilant; a great GM (both Accorsi and Reese deserve the title "great"); great coaching staff; franchise QB; and a solid core of championship-level veterans.I agree, we don't need to bash Young. Let's just agree to bash Handley! ;)

joemorrisforprez
05-14-2013, 03:20 PM
I agree, we don't need to bash Young. Let's just agree to bash Handley! ;)

Agreed!

MDL
05-14-2013, 04:20 PM
Mara = class. Tisch....not so much.

Toadofsteel
05-14-2013, 04:52 PM
Also I'll add John Mara has much of his dad in him, but he does get very irritated particularly by the Jets (after the frustration of jointly building the new stadium). Woody Johnson really seems to piss him off. Then add in Ryan's crowing, the big Eli hit, covering up the super bowl logo wall, etc.

Wellington suffered in silence. John is clearly seething but managing to hold himself back, aside from some subtle quips. I think Steve is just venting some of that resentment that the entire organization feels.

Honestly, if you were in that position, would you be able to endure all that and not quip something back at them eventually?

GameTime
05-14-2013, 06:40 PM
Mara = class. Tisch....not so much.
and you know this how????
by a few media quotes yo may have heard...
dumb assessment on your part....

PierrePaul
05-14-2013, 07:29 PM
In my experience and the experience of people I know who have dealt with both, I would have to agree with the title. The Mara family has been all about the New York Football Giants. Steve Tisch sort of does the owner thing, and does a nice job, but you get the feeling he likes the glamour of hollywood more than trying to own a solid football organization. If left alone, I get the feeling that the organization would do a lot more of the "sizzle" kind of things to get headlines like we hear from the Jets. It looks from the outside that John and Steve get along just fine. They have a professional relationship. To me they don't really seem to like each other though. I know they have separate owners boxes at Met Life. Does anyone know what the do when they travel to away games. Do they ever share a luxury box? I don't remember what they did at the last two Superbowls?

BigBlue wins
05-15-2013, 12:32 PM
Ray Handley in 6 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NAg_Fi_q-8

BlueBlooded1979
05-15-2013, 03:51 PM
Bert (Mara) and Ernie (Tisch) are nothing like their fathers when it comes to class, integrity and dignity. Without the teams success (stewarded by men hired under their fathers) they would be considered just like Woody Johnson, a joke.

GameTime
05-15-2013, 06:04 PM
Bert (Mara) and Ernie (Tisch) are nothing like their fathers when it comes to class, integrity and dignity. Without the teams success (stewarded by men hired under their fathers) they would be considered just like Woody Johnson, a joke.

I guess you know them personally.....????

sounds like a dumb *** statement to me.....