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Carter.525
05-14-2013, 09:57 PM
NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports that "value-wise," the Giants view restricted free agent Victor Cruz as more than a slot receiver in long-term talks.
That's good news for Cruz in a market that's been cruel to slot men, but hardly an indication the Giants are willing to pay him as the No. 1 receiver he's produced like the past two seasons. The Giants are believed to be offering somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 million annually, while Cruz is reportedly seeking $10-$11 million. Rapoport also reports the next few days are viewed as "extremely important" in the negotiations, but doesn't know why.

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter May 14 - 8:36 PM

river555
05-14-2013, 10:06 PM
Call Cruz whatever you want...1st WR, 2nd WR, Slot, Outside, Inside....bottom line says 2 years 168 Rec. 2,628 yards, 19 TD's and most productive player on offense. Enough said.

RoanokeFan
05-14-2013, 10:09 PM
His value will be detemined by his contract. It's really that simple.

Drez
05-14-2013, 10:46 PM
This isn't really news. If it's already been reported that we've offered at least $7m/yr average, that already says that they see Cruz as more than just a slot guy as the other premier slot guys got $6m. However, it means that they don't value him as too much more than just a slot guy.

B&RWarrior
05-14-2013, 10:48 PM
That smooth pudding like substance you see before you is the dead horse that was beaten beyond recognition.

ElIteManning10
05-14-2013, 10:51 PM
I don't want to get into a big debate.. but lets see here... Whether you think Cruz is only a "slot receiver" and easily replaceable because of that, its really quite simple.. Victor Cruz as a "slot receiver" has been better overall than either Mike Wallace or Dwayne Bowe (outside of one great year with 15TD and 1000+ yards) and both got HUGE paydays because they are #1 receivers.. Now you dont want to pay the man because you feel the Giants are going to get into cap trouble like usual? Fine.. but PLEASE stop saying that Cruz is only worth X amount.. He's been better than both of these guys who just signed huge deals who are #1 WRs.

Drez
05-14-2013, 10:52 PM
I don't want to get into a big debate.. but lets see here... Whether you think Cruz is only a "slot receiver" and easily replaceable because of that, its really quite simple.. Victor Cruz as a "slot receiver" has been better overall than either Mike Wallace or Dwayne Bowe (outside of one great year with 15TD and 1000+ yards) and both got HUGE paydays because they are #1 receivers.. Now you dont want to pay the man because you feel the Giants are going to get into cap trouble like usual? Fine.. but PLEASE stop saying that Cruz is only worth X amount.. He's been better than both of these guys who just signed huge deals who are #1 WRs.ANd both those guys do things that Cruz cannot... Dominate on the outside.

Also, don't confuse production with value.

ElIteManning10
05-14-2013, 10:56 PM
ANd both those guys do things that Cruz cannot... Dominate on the outside.

Also, don't confuse production with value.

How else do you value someone? Nicks might have all the talent in the world, but he cant'stay on the freaking field.. so what's his "value" just because whenever he is healthy he can dominate on the outside?

Drez
05-14-2013, 10:59 PM
How else do you value someone? Nicks might have all the talent in the world, but he cant'stay on the freaking field.. so what's his "value" just because whenever he is healthy he can dominate on the outside?I don't have the time or energy to explain that to you right now. Go explore one of the other 30000 Cruz threads to find out.

And to your point about Nicks, his injuries have probably lowered his value from $12m+ to $8m-$10m.

ElIteManning10
05-14-2013, 11:02 PM
I don't have the time or energy to explain that to you right now. Go explore one of the other 30000 Cruz threads to find out.

And to your point about Nicks, his injuries have probably lowered his value from $12m+ to $8m-$10m.

I have read them (alot of them anyway).. The bottom line is if the Giants don't pay Cruz, someone will pay him. He will get a big payday one way or the other, whether with the Giants, or next year as a UFA

Drez
05-14-2013, 11:08 PM
I have read them (alot of them anyway).. The bottom line is if the Giants don't pay Cruz, someone will pay him. He will get a big payday one way or the other, whether with the Giants, or next year as a UFAJust because another team may be willing to over pay for Cruz doesn't mean we should. Anything much over $8m/yr is over paying for Cruz. He cannot do the things that WRs need to do to earn that money, namely dominate outside the numbers.

gmen0820
05-14-2013, 11:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cn7xfBpZ3M

fizzlesticks
05-15-2013, 12:32 AM
He cannot do the things that WRs need to do to earn that money, namely dominate outside the numbers.

Why do WRs have to be dominate outside the numbers to get paid? A reliable inside guy is just or even more important than the guy that makes 1 play a game.

JsBigBlue
05-15-2013, 12:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cn7xfBpZ3M lol

giantsfan420
05-15-2013, 01:11 AM
as ive been sayin from day 1 pretty much, hes an elite slot wr and a top 5 #2 WR. he will prob get top 5 #2 WR money. the negotiation is prob the giants trying to get the scale more on a slot wr scale and cruz trying for a more #1 WR scale...

ElIteManning10
05-15-2013, 01:34 AM
either way, its sounding like its going to get done.

GiantRoc
05-15-2013, 02:42 AM
Every now and then a team overpays a player for a position. The bar is reset for the rest of those position players to make the money grab. We got screwed by a couple teams paying what I think is too much for a few players. Now there is a new yardstick to measure by. If the Giants want Cruz, they have him for the next 2 years,(franchise tag next year). Cruz can elect to sit out, which will do him no good. If he wants more than we are willing to give, he will not be here much longer. I'm sure we will find someone to replace him. We will be fine without him. I vowed years ago not to get too attached players. I cheer 1 year at a time. There, see what you did? You made me respond to yet another Cruz thread. I need Cruz thread methadone to kick this topic.

GiantRoc
05-15-2013, 02:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cn7xfBpZ3M

I'd go tree fiddy to keep him. hahaha

RoanokeFan
05-15-2013, 05:23 AM
ANd both those guys do things that Cruz cannot... Dominate on the outside.

Also, don't confuse production with value.

I have a disconnect with this and I know you've said it before. But if Cruz has been Elis most productive receiver for two seasons, the only two he's played, how does that not equate with his value, if only to the Giants?

I admit what I don't know about football would fill volumes, but if players' production isn't the foundation of what teams are willing to pay them what is?

NYGabriel
05-15-2013, 05:59 AM
If Desean Jackson is getting over 10mil a year I can understand why Cruz would be reluctant to accept 7-8mil.

RoanokeFan
05-15-2013, 06:01 AM
If Desean Jackson is getting over 10mil a year I can understand why Cruz would be reluctant to accept 7-8mil.

It's coming down to the wire now by most press accounts. Both sides want a deal so it should get done soon.

giantsfan420
05-15-2013, 06:50 AM
I have a disconnect with this and I know you've said it before. But if Cruz has been Elis most productive receiver for two seasons, the only two he's played, how does that not equate with his value, if only to the Giants?

I admit what I don't know about football would fill volumes, but if players' production isn't the foundation of what teams are willing to pay them what is?he's right tho. before the ss12 to philly incident, I would have had a disconnect too. But ss12 went from 106 catches was it? to practically being out of the league. We had this Cruz scenario before with ss12, so, I full out understand his production not equaling value.

RoanokeFan
05-15-2013, 06:54 AM
he's right tho. before the ss12 to philly incident, I would have had a disconnect too. But ss12 went from 106 catches was it? to practically being out of the league. We had this Cruz scenario before with ss12, so, I full out understand his production not equaling value.

It must be just me but using Smith, who had a serious injury, as the example to compare with Cruz also doesn't make sense to me.

Redeyejedi
05-15-2013, 07:25 AM
Ive said all along that 8 million per for 4 or 5 with half guaranteed will get the deal done. Its fair for both sides. Also the money Victor would lose from not getting the deal done this year and playing on a tender "With huge Risk" would make it so he would need to get about 9.5 -10 per year next year to make up for it

I think if your going to pay someone Victor is a good guy to pay. He is very productive guy that is from the area and gives back a lot to the community. He fits the image of the franchise and is a fantastic football player

RoanokeFan
05-15-2013, 07:32 AM
Ive said all along that 8 million per for 4 or 5 with half guaranteed will get the deal done. Its fair for both sides. Also the money Victor would lose from not getting the deal done this year and playing on a tender "With huge Risk" would make it so he would need to get about 9.5 -10 per year next year to make up for it

I don't think the annual $$ was the biggest issue. The term, originally reported at 3 years, should have been more of an issue as well as the guarantee. We should know soon enough.

Redeyejedi
05-15-2013, 07:39 AM
I don't think the annual $$ was the biggest issue. The term, originally reported at 3 years, should have been more of an issue as well as the guarantee. We should know soon enough. Not even the Football part where he is more then worth the money but he is a good guy and from the area, every time I look up the guy is at some fund raiser or charity event, The fans love him, not a trouble maker, he is a great guy to build around

RoanokeFan
05-15-2013, 12:16 PM
Not even the Football part where he is more then worth the money but he is a good guy and from the area, every time I look up the guy is at some fund raiser or charity event, The fans love him, not a trouble maker, he is a great guy to build around

I'm on your side. Let's circle the wagons because we're outnumbered

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8V74B2tyzbvJ0E1tpDZe8bDAQo_TR3 GY68E8aXSvDuHGj2dlwSQ

MattMeyerBud
05-15-2013, 12:22 PM
This isn't really news. If it's already been reported that we've offered at least $7m/yr average, that already says that they see Cruz as more than just a slot guy as the other premier slot guys got $6m. However, it means that they don't value him as too much more than just a slot guy.

that's not true I don't think.

Welker is older and been getting banged up and Amendola is completely injury plagued.

Cruz is young and healthy for the most part. His value should defintily be worth more than that as a slot guy

RoanokeFan
05-15-2013, 12:27 PM
that's not true I don't think.

Welker is older and been getting banged up and Amendola is completely injury plagued.

Cruz is young and healthy for the most part. His value should defintily be worth more than that as a slot guy

Where have you been? lol

BeatYale
05-15-2013, 12:51 PM
Not even the Football part where he is more then worth the money but he is a good guy and from the area, every time I look up the guy is at some fund raiser or charity event, The fans love him, not a trouble maker, he is a great guy to build around

Yep.

He's probably the most popular NFL player in the Latin and Hispanic communities, which gives him specific endorsement opportunities that other players won't ever get it. 8 per year in NY will be more lucrative than 10 per year in a small market when all that is considered. He knows his value is highest in NY, his agent does too.

gumby74
05-15-2013, 12:54 PM
Where have you been? lol Didn't he just get married? End of discussion. Although, once you have kids, then it's REALLY over. How I'm still on these boards, i have no idea.

ShakeandBake
05-15-2013, 01:07 PM
That smooth pudding like substance you see before you is the dead horse that was beaten beyond recognition.

+1

Redeyejedi
05-15-2013, 01:11 PM
that's not true I don't think.

Welker is older and been getting banged up and Amendola is completely injury plagued.

Cruz is young and healthy for the most part. His value should definitively be worth more than that as a slot guy Victor Cruz in 2 years has more 70 yard plus TD receptions thane any other receiver had in a decade. He is a little more then just a slot receiver . He is the best and most explosive slot receiver in the NFL