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View Full Version : Former GM Ernie Arcorsi On Trading For Eli Manning: "There Is No Price Too High.."



RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 08:11 AM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/05/19/former-giants-gm-ernie-accorsi-on-trading-for-eli-manning-there-is-no-price-too-high-for-greatness/

Excerpt: "New York Giants fans know the story of the 2004 NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Draft. The Giants went 4-12 in 2003 and possessed the number four selection as a result of the season. With Kerry Collins leaving, then-General Manager Ernie Accorsi (http://www.giants101.com/tag/ernie-accorsi/) wanted to draft a quarterback to take over the franchise.

The San Diego Chargers had the first pick and many felt that they would select Eli Manning (http://www.giants101.com/tag/eli-manning/) out of Ole Miss, but the younger brother of Peyton Manning wasn't interested in going to San Diego.

In an interview with NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Network, Accorsi reflected on how the day of the 2004 NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Draft turned out and how the Giants future was altered.

Accorsi on scouting Manning:

"I scouted him back in 2002 and he nearly beat Auburn by himself. The next year, he took his team to the Cotton Bowl and won. My gut feeling was that if we could trade up for him, we needed to do it," he said." Read more...

SimmsandLT
05-19-2013, 08:30 AM
What's the over/under on this thread page length? 15 or 20? :)

fletch842
05-19-2013, 08:42 AM
history proved Ernie to be correct. Eli may not have been the sole reason we won these last 2, but was a huge part, and other facets of the trade also had lasting impact. I think if we had a first round pick the next year, we don't sign all three of Plax, Mac and AP. All 3 were huge contributors to the team success. I could go on and on.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 09:06 AM
What's the over/under on this thread page length? 15 or 20? :)

Cancel all your plans for today, get some beer and nachos and just chill :cool:

SweetZombieJesus
05-19-2013, 09:20 AM
What I will always remember about it is that the Giants never cause draft day drama, never trade up, never draft the big name guy. Ron Dayne was a big deal around here because he won the Heisman.

We had a repeat of that this year when we selected Pugh.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 09:22 AM
I wonder if today's FO still thinks "There is no price too high for greatness"?

BigBlueAllDay
05-19-2013, 09:41 AM
I wonder if today's FO still thinks "There is no price too high for greatness"?

Absolutely, a winning Franchise QB is worth all the world to the team. It could be the difference between being a competitive team in league as supposed to being a doormat team for several years. The FO still have to do their homework in scouting and analysis so if the team does have to trade up in the draft, it'll be well worth it and don't end up like the Jets trading up for someone like Mark Sanchez.

With rookie-capped salaries, there no breaking the bank either to pay them after they get drafted now.

ALLnygIN
05-19-2013, 09:45 AM
Eli is an incredible quaterback in his own unique way. He can really take over a freaking game if he's on it. He can be off horribly and then out of nowhere turn it on and be this insanely potent qb. I love how it doesn't matter how much the giants are down in the 4th quarter bc I always feel we have a shot with Eli at the helm. He's a huge part in us winning those two superbowls.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 09:46 AM
Absolutely, a winning Franchise QB is worth all the world to the team. It could be the difference between being a competitive team in league as supposed to being a doormat team for several years. The FO still have to do their homework in scouting and analysis so if the team does have to trade up in the draft, it'll be well worth it and don't end up like the Jets trading up for someone like Mark Sanchez.

With rookie-capped salaries, there no breaking the bank either to pay them after they get drafted now.

But is they didn't have the rookie scale like the year Eli was drafted......

fletch842
05-19-2013, 09:58 AM
But if they didn't have the rookie scale like the year Eli was drafted......
I thought the rookie scale made the high picks much more affordable than before?

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 09:59 AM
I thought the rookie scale made the high picks much more affordable than before?

Absolutely they do. It makes it much easier to draft high and hope the potential develops

Rudyy
05-19-2013, 10:30 AM
What's the over/under on this thread page length? 15 or 20? :)With Eli "realist/cutlist" club, over. Without, under.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 10:31 AM
With Eli "realist/cutlist" club, over. Without, under.

So over it is then lol

Rudyy
05-19-2013, 10:33 AM
So over it is then lolIF they show up

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 10:36 AM
IF they show up

Does a bear **** in the woods?

BigBlueAllDay
05-19-2013, 10:40 AM
Does a bear **** in the woods?

I thought they tell you that only you can prevent forest fires.

It's very hard to argue against the Eli Manning draft trade now. 2 Superbowl winning seasons vs. what have Phillip Rivers and Shawn Merriman done?

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 10:43 AM
I thought they tell you that only you can prevent forest fires.

It's very hard to argue against the Eli Manning draft trade now. 2 Superbowl winning seasons vs. what have Phillip Rivers and Shawn Merriman done?

In an environment where obscene contracts are the norm, I agree.

As for preventing forest fires, do you know why Smokey the Bear never had any children?

Delicreep
05-19-2013, 11:00 AM
This would be one of those things that is almost impossible for fans to see clearly.

EA saw something in Eli and bet very heavily on it. At this point, it should be plain to all that EA won that bet.

Doesn't mean it was the best bet, or that other bets could have been winners as well, just that he was factually right about Eli's value in that trade.

We will never know if other bets (River's or Ben) would have also been winners, but that's the part that just is so compelling to us fans - what if?

In the end..the guy saw something in Eli and it turned out to be worth two SB's so far...kinda hard to knock that call.

BigBlueAllDay
05-19-2013, 11:16 AM
In an environment where obscene contracts are the norm, I agree.

As for preventing forest fires, do you know why Smokey the Bear never had any children?

Nope. why?

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 11:17 AM
Nope. why?

Every time his wife got hot, he stamped her out :p

GROAN, I know

B&RWarrior
05-19-2013, 11:18 AM
What I will always remember about it is that the Giants never cause draft day drama, never trade up, never draft the big name guy. Ron Dayne was a big deal around here because he won the Heisman.

We had a repeat of that this year when we selected Pugh.

You're comparing an almost technically flawless offensive lineman that can play multiple positions to Ron Dayne. Pugh may not be a future perennial All Pro, but he might have been the safest pick in the first round, outside of the top 15.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 11:22 AM
You're comparing an almost technically flawless offensive lineman that can play multiple positions to Ron Dayne. Pugh may not be a future perennial All Pro, but he might have been the safest pick in the first round, outside of the top 15.

It's more important that Pugh and his linemates get their collective **** together, IMO. I think Reese may have added a very necessary piece to the puzzle in Pugh.

BigBlueAllDay
05-19-2013, 11:27 AM
Every time his wife got hot, he stamped her out :p

GROAN, I know

Eh, it makes sense at least. :p

Another excerpt from the same article, and just think the Browns are still trying to get franchise QB this whole time..
Accorsi on nearly trading the fourth pick to seventh with the Browns:
"I nearly pulled the trigger to move down to seven, but I heard a rumor that Cleveland was trying to move up to our spot and get Manning. And it hit me, if I enabled Cleveland to get him, then I couldn't live with myself, so I decided not to make the trade and stick to our pick," he said.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 11:29 AM
Eh, it makes sense at least. :p

Another excerpt from the same article, and just think the Browns are still trying to get franchise QB this whole time..
Accorsi on nearly trading the fourth pick to seventh with the Browns:
"I nearly pulled the trigger to move down to seven, but I heard a rumor that Cleveland was trying to move up to our spot and get Manning. And it hit me, if I enabled Cleveland to get him, then I couldn't live with myself, so I decided not to make the trade and stick to our pick," he said.






These guys must have nerves of steel at draft time

Redeyejedi
05-19-2013, 11:34 AM
I wonder if today's FO still thinks "There is no price too high for greatness"? i think they believe it for 2 things. A franchise QB and Game Changing pass rushing Dlineman. Remember they were going to give Haynesworth 75 million

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 11:35 AM
i think they believe it for 2 things. A franchise QB and Game Changing pass rushing Dlineman. Remember they were going to give Haynesworth 75 million

I still shudder when reminded

B&RWarrior
05-19-2013, 11:39 AM
I think Ernie thought Eli would be greater than he is. He's been good, but at Ole Miss he looked like the BETTER younger brother of Peyton Manning. We got 2 rings and I'm happy. One SB would have affirmed the trade. Having said that I still say we overpaid. Rivers, the next years first round pick, a 3rd and a 5th round pick.

I can't say with any certainty that Rivers would not have been able to make the plays to get us a SB like Eli did. There in 2 different systems so stats comparisons really don't help. In the end we won 2 SBs so the ends justify the means.

BigBlueAllDay
05-19-2013, 11:44 AM
i think they believe it for 2 things. A franchise QB and Game Changing pass rushing Dlineman. Remember they were going to give Haynesworth 75 million

Good thing the Redskins outbid the Giants with $100 million on that one and set their franchise back a couple of seasons. lol

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 11:45 AM
Good thing the Redskins outbid the Giants with $100 million on that one and set their franchise back a couple of seasons. lol

Talk about overpaying

BigBlueAllDay
05-19-2013, 11:50 AM
Talk about overpaying

It's overpaying plus Haynesworth just looking to get paid after his stellar time on the Titans. The Redskins obviously weren't expecting the troubles and huge lack of work ethic from him when they overpaid. Unforunately, the cap hit from the huge contract already did its permanent damage.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 11:52 AM
It's overpaying plus Haynesworth just looking to get paid after his stellar time on the Titans. The Redskins obviously weren't expecting the troubles and huge lack of work ethic from him when they overpaid. Unforunately, the cap hit from the huge contract already did its permanent damage.

It's proof positive that contracts are a roll of the dice a lot of times

Redeyejedi
05-19-2013, 11:52 AM
Good thing the Redskins outbid the Giants with $100 million on that one and set their franchise back a couple of seasons. lolI dont think Al would of failed so miserably here. Tuck and Osi playing at an All Pro level along with Coefield. I think his career would of been very different

BigBlueAllDay
05-19-2013, 11:55 AM
It's proof positive that contracts are a roll of the dice a lot of times

Indeed. We then come to the other end of the spectrum of your opening post.

"Haynesworth is a risk not worth taking at any price." lol

http://www.sportsmedia101.com/newyorkgiants/2012/04/27/new-york-giants-considered-albert-haynesworth-prior-to-signing-shaun-rogers/

Cool Papa B.
05-19-2013, 11:56 AM
What's the over/under on this thread page length? 15 or 20? :)

I'll take the over on that one.

SweetZombieJesus
05-19-2013, 12:43 PM
You're comparing an almost technically flawless offensive lineman that can play multiple positions to Ron Dayne. Pugh may not be a future perennial All Pro, but he might have been the safest pick in the first round, outside of the top 15.

Not really complaining about Pugh (I'm actually all for unsexy picks that anchor the team for a decade +). Just that the Giants never make the "sexy" pick.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 12:50 PM
Not really complaining about Pugh (I'm actually all for unsexy picks that anchor the team for a decade +). Just that the Giants never make the "sexy" pick.

What I like is the big spalsh a guy like Hynoski makes after we've all expressed "who" when they were brought on board.

gmen46
05-19-2013, 01:35 PM
I still shudder when reminded

I still prefer to believe Reese did that to deliberately jack up Snyder, knowing his propensity the previous 10 years for over paying over-hyped FAs, forcing Snyder to pay even more for Fat Albert :D

(And to all those posters who for years slammed the Canty contract Reese signed that same year--2009--history quickly revealed that Reese got Canty, Boley, and Bernard at great value for combined contracts far below that of Albert's single contract). I'm sure that one off season went further to more clearly shape Reese's FA philosophy going forward than anything before it.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 01:44 PM
I still prefer to believe Reese did that to deliberately jack up Snyder, knowing his propensity the previous 10 years for over paying over-hyped FAs, forcing Snyder to pay even more for Fat Albert :D

(And to all those posters who for years slammed the Canty contract Reese signed that same year--2009--history quickly revealed that Reese got Canty, Boley, and Bernard at great value for combined contracts far below that of Albert's single contract). I'm sure that one off season went further to more clearly shape Reese's FA philosophy going forward than anything before it.

That would help to get through the memory

Eli TO Shockey
05-19-2013, 02:07 PM
These guys must have nerves of steel at draft time

We would have traded down and gotten Big Ben. Which wouldnt be all that bad of an alternative either. Needless to say im content with the way things went :)

joemorrisforprez
05-19-2013, 03:28 PM
Ernie was the best Giants GM I can recall.

thegreatone
05-19-2013, 03:30 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/05/19/former-giants-gm-ernie-accorsi-on-trading-for-eli-manning-there-is-no-price-too-high-for-greatness/

Excerpt: "New York Giants fans know the story of the 2004 NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Draft. The Giants went 4-12 in 2003 and possessed the number four selection as a result of the season. With Kerry Collins leaving, then-General Manager Ernie Accorsi (http://www.giants101.com/tag/ernie-accorsi/) wanted to draft a quarterback to take over the franchise.

The San Diego Chargers had the first pick and many felt that they would select Eli Manning (http://www.giants101.com/tag/eli-manning/) out of Ole Miss, but the younger brother of Peyton Manning wasn't interested in going to San Diego.

In an interview with NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Network, Accorsi reflected on how the day of the 2004 NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Draft turned out and how the Giants future was altered.

Accorsi on scouting Manning:

"I scouted him back in 2002 and he nearly beat Auburn by himself. The next year, he took his team to the Cotton Bowl and won. My gut feeling was that if we could trade up for him, we needed to do it," he said." Read more...





part of this is false. Kerry wasn't leaving. They drafted Eli and THEN Kerry demanded a trade/release. Huge difference. EA actually was hoping for Kerry to stick around but Kerry would have no part in it. Is this important? No, I just hate columnists that don't know what they are talking about

joemorrisforprez
05-19-2013, 03:36 PM
part of this is false. Kerry wasn't leaving. They drafted Eli and THEN Kerry demanded a trade/release. Huge difference. EA actually was hoping for Kerry to stick around but Kerry would have no part in it. Is this important? No, I just hate columnists that don't know what they are talking about

That's a good point.

Kerry pretty much clocked himself out of NY after Eli was drafted. People might be able to claim he saw the writing on the wall, but regardless, Kerry wanted no part in playing Kurt Warner.

giantsfan420
05-19-2013, 03:40 PM
i agree EA and always have.

RoanokeFan
05-19-2013, 03:41 PM
Ernie was the best Giants GM I can recall.

Now you're just sucking up to his BFF, Harooni :rolleyes:

4thand1
05-19-2013, 04:02 PM
No price too high?


Didn't Accorsi refuse to give up Osi?

Eli TO Shockey
05-19-2013, 04:06 PM
No price too high?


Didn't Accorsi refuse to give up Osi?

It's called negotiating.

4thand1
05-19-2013, 04:15 PM
It's called negotiating.

No it's called not willing to give up too much

gmen46
05-19-2013, 04:28 PM
I still shudder when reminded


That would help to get through the memory

It was genius, I tell ya!

BlueBlitzer
05-19-2013, 04:39 PM
I do not know how many come from behind victories Rodger Staubach had, or how many the Browns " Cardiac Kids " have. But Eli Surpassed His brother and the great Johnnie U. for most TDs in the 4th quarter.

GameTime
05-19-2013, 05:02 PM
ehh....old news we all know the story and we have seen what has been the outcome so far...
well worth it....in evey aspect.....

Toadofsteel
05-19-2013, 05:05 PM
Eli is an incredible quaterback in his own unique way. He can really take over a freaking game if he's on it. He can be off horribly and then out of nowhere turn it on and be this insanely potent qb. I love how it doesn't matter how much the giants are down in the 4th quarter bc I always feel we have a shot with Eli at the helm. He's a huge part in us winning those two superbowls.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/16923_451765138203513_1787488167_n.jpg

Cool Papa B.
05-19-2013, 05:05 PM
Ernie was the best Giants GM I can recall.

George Young was a little better IMO.

BlueBlitzer
05-19-2013, 05:32 PM
George Young was a little better IMO.

I'm a big EA supporter and fan. George Young however came to the Giants and had to start from rock bottom. No HC, no QB, an offense that had DC's from other teams giggling more so than fearing us. Our Punter Dave Jennings seemed to be the only player in the Pro-Bowl. No draft board. Their were scouts to be hired. We had a halfway decent Defense, not much else. Well and Tim ( The nephew ) Mara agreed to end their feud by giving all football operations over to the new GM. However it was more like being in charge of a car dealership with no sales personnel and half of your lot loaded with Edsels and yugos.

Drez
05-19-2013, 05:54 PM
No it's called not willing to give up too muchConsidering we gave up the extra 1st instead of Osi, I don't think that holds water.

4thand1
05-19-2013, 06:06 PM
Considering we gave up the extra 1st instead of Osi, I don't think that holds water.

Draft picks are almost always overrated. A 1st, 3rd and 5th isn't as high of a price as you think it is.

SimmsandLT
05-19-2013, 06:36 PM
I am going to go with the under in this case.. 15 pages or less!

SweetZombieJesus
05-19-2013, 06:37 PM
That's a good point.

Kerry pretty much clocked himself out of NY after Eli was drafted. People might be able to claim he saw the writing on the wall, but regardless, Kerry wanted no part in playing Kurt Warner.

A lot of those guys still thought it was 2000 and they had a chance to get back to the Super Bowl. Not only did Kerry want another shot and still wanted to start, but guys like Strahan and Tiki didn't want to go through the growing pains either, that's why they brought Kurt Warner in.

SweetZombieJesus
05-19-2013, 06:40 PM
I'm a big EA supporter and fan. George Young however came to the Giants and had to start from rock bottom. No HC, no QB, an offense that had DC's from other teams giggling more so than fearing us. Our Punter Dave Jennings seemed to be the only player in the Pro-Bowl. No draft board. Their were scouts to be hired. We had a halfway decent Defense, not much else. Well and Tim ( The nephew ) Mara agreed to end their feud by giving all football operations over to the new GM. However it was more like being in charge of a car dealership with no sales personnel and half of your lot loaded with Edsels and yugos.

This. The organization had become a laughing stock. The way we look at Cleveland or Detroit, that's how people saw the once proud New York Football Giants.

1979 -- drafts Phil Simms, brings in new coaching staff that had Parcells on it as LB coach.

Since then, we haven't been out of the playoffs for more than 3 years at a time, and we've won 4 SBs.

B&RWarrior
05-19-2013, 07:03 PM
Draft picks are almost always overrated. A 1st, 3rd and 5th isn't as high of a price as you think it is.

It is considering they got a QB of equal value. In fact one could argue Rivers is the better QB.

Rudyy
05-19-2013, 07:16 PM
It is considering they got a QB of equal value. In fact one could argue Rivers is the better QB.Lol no

B&RWarrior
05-19-2013, 07:20 PM
Lol no

How many games have you seen Rivers play? Check his stats. They support the eye test.

GameTime
05-19-2013, 07:32 PM
It is considering they got a QB of equal value. In fact one could argue Rivers is the better QB.
Rivers may be technically better in his mechanics but he is not a better overall QB......eye test or any other test you want to give....

miked1958
05-19-2013, 08:06 PM
I remember that draft like it was yesterday. Had seen Big Benn play in person twice. He and his family wanted the giants to select him. I was Pro Benn. I remember being so pissed when they took Rivers. Banging the steering wheel in my SUV so had in the parking lot of Classic Pools & Spas that the people a few cars down from me heard it. We had got there 25/30 minutes prior but I didn't want to leave the car radio to see who the top 3 took and when Benn was still available when we came up to draft i figured it was a shoe in. I was so mad when the selected Rivers I didn't even hear them say trade...

Went inside store to join my wife ( who was fit to be tied by that time) and didnt hear about the trade till weWe're on the way Home. I was happy because I felt Eli was a better choice then rivers but was upset with all the picks they gave up to get him when they could of just drafted Benn and kept all the picks...

Well sitting here now I'm glad it worked out the way it did and I was never more happy to be wrong

4thand1
05-19-2013, 08:33 PM
It is considering they got a QB of equal value. In fact one could argue Rivers is the better QB.

Rivers were the 3rd QB on the giants draft board, moving up to their number 1 and paying a 1st, 3rd, and 5th isn't that crazy.

And you are talking about the QB that has never played a postseason game without throwing a pick? That Phillip Rivers who is arguably better than Eli?

B&RWarrior
05-19-2013, 08:55 PM
Rivers may be technically better in his mechanics but he is not a better overall QB......eye test or any other test you want to give....

He's a more accurate QB. He always has been, even in college. His accuracy leads him to try to thread the needle way too much. He's also a huge gambler. Eli takes way less risks. I think Eli is better in the clutch than Rivers.

I think the trade was a win-win.

joemorrisforprez
05-19-2013, 09:15 PM
George Young was a little better IMO.

I respectively disagree. I think George Young deserves a great deal of credit for restoring order to the franchise. But he made many mistakes as well.

Ernie Accorsi had to rebuild the franchise because of those mistakes.

joemorrisforprez
05-19-2013, 09:18 PM
A lot of those guys still thought it was 2000 and they had a chance to get back to the Super Bowl. Not only did Kerry want another shot and still wanted to start, but guys like Strahan and Tiki didn't want to go through the growing pains either, that's why they brought Kurt Warner in.

Accorsi had the foresight to realize Collins wasn't going to get us to the promised land....I think the Ravens game proved that.

Moecoastie77
05-19-2013, 09:24 PM
Rivers had at one time the League MVP and arguably the best regular season team (both defensively and offensively) for years iand still couldnt win it all.

Flip Empty
05-19-2013, 09:24 PM
He's a more accurate QB. He always has been, even in college. His accuracy leads him to try to thread the needle way too much. He's also a huge gambler. Eli takes way less risks. I think Eli is better in the clutch than Rivers.

I think the trade was a win-win.
He's probably more accurate with the shorter stuff, but the dude seems to have lost his deep ball. I don't know if it's his arm or just the fact that he no longer has Vincent Jackson to loft it to, but he is not what he was just a few years ago.

Drez
05-19-2013, 09:36 PM
Accorsi had the foresight to realize Collins wasn't going to get us to the promised land....I think the Ravens game proved that.There's something you and I can agree on.

Drez
05-19-2013, 09:38 PM
He's a more accurate QB. He always has been, even in college. His accuracy leads him to try to thread the needle way too much. He's also a huge gambler. Eli takes way less risks. I think Eli is better in the clutch than Rivers.

I think the trade was a win-win.One of Eli's greatest criticisms is that he takes too many risks.

Rudyy
05-19-2013, 09:40 PM
How many games have you seen Rivers play? Check his stats. They support the eye test.Overall? He is not better than Eli.

joemorrisforprez
05-19-2013, 09:54 PM
There's something you and I can agree on.

Shocking, I know.

joemorrisforprez
05-19-2013, 09:55 PM
He's probably more accurate with the shorter stuff, but the dude seems to have lost his deep ball. I don't know if it's his arm or just the fact that he no longer has Vincent Jackson to loft it to, but he is not what he was just a few years ago.

Rivers waited until I picked him in my fantasy league to drop off the table.....rat *******.

GameTime
05-19-2013, 10:08 PM
He's a more accurate QB. He always has been, even in college. His accuracy leads him to try to thread the needle way too much. He's also a huge gambler. Eli takes way less risks. I think Eli is better in the clutch than Rivers.

I think the trade was a win-win.
So his accuaracy leads to him be.....well.....foolish. Really makes no sense. Eli takes way less risks??....your eye test is faulty big time....
Eli is a better overall QB....stats shmats.......

gumby74
05-19-2013, 10:10 PM
Absolutely. This applies to all franchise level QBs. it's the reason why Romo, Flacco, etc all got paid.

gumby74
05-19-2013, 10:11 PM
Heh. What's wrong with the trade benefiting BOTH teams equally.

Eli TO Shockey
05-19-2013, 10:13 PM
Eli is borderline HOF while rivers is borderline getting benched and becoming a back up. The comparison is a joke at this point in their respective careers.

GameTime
05-19-2013, 10:14 PM
Heh. What's wrong with the trade benefiting BOTH teams equally.
that was the whole point. NYG wanted Eli and SD wanted Rivers. They got a few extra picks and we got two SB wins....
I'd say the benefits were fine by me....

gumby74
05-19-2013, 10:15 PM
Delete

Eli TO Shockey
05-19-2013, 10:15 PM
So his accuaracy leads to him be.....well.....foolish. Really makes no sense. Eli takes way less risks??....your eye test is faulty big time....
Eli is a better overall QB....stats shmats.......

Lol on 3rd and 1 eli likes to throw 40 yard bombs. Doesn't sound "risky" to me.

Flip Empty
05-19-2013, 10:17 PM
Lol on 3rd and 1 eli likes to throw 40 yard bombs. Doesn't sound "risky" to me.
I think that's more Gilbride than Eli.

That's not to say Eli doesn't take unnecessary risks - that's one of his trademarks.

B&RWarrior
05-19-2013, 11:10 PM
So his accuaracy leads to him be.....well.....foolish. Really makes no sense. Eli takes way less risks??....your eye test is faulty big time....
Eli is a better overall QB....stats shmats.......

He's always had an extremely accurate arm so I think he tries to thread the needle too much. The stats would say Rivers was more accurate. In the last couple of years Eli's decision making has improved, while Rivers seemed to get worse, especially this year. I don't know if it because his Oline began to struggle but he looked really bad at the beginning of the year last year.

Even if you think Eli is better, I'd still say that their in the same category.

B&RWarrior
05-19-2013, 11:13 PM
Lol on 3rd and 1 eli likes to throw 40 yard bombs. Doesn't sound "risky" to me.

Eli doesn't throw into triple or double coverage as much as he used to. He also throws the ball away more than he used to. Rivers looked really bad last year near the beginning of the year. He recovered to a have a decent year, but he was forcing a lot of throws into good coverage.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 07:04 AM
He's always had an extremely accurate arm so I think he tries to thread the needle too much. The stats would say Rivers was more accurate. In the last couple of years Eli's decision making has improved, while Rivers seemed to get worse, especially this year. I don't know if it because his Oline began to struggle but he looked really bad at the beginning of the year last year.

Even if you think Eli is better, I'd still say that their in the same category.


Eli doesn't throw into triple or double coverage as much as he used to. He also throws the ball away more than he used to. Rivers looked really bad last year near the beginning of the year. He recovered to a have a decent year, but he was forcing a lot of throws into good coverage.

You're not helping your case any. You should have just stuck at the stats.

BigBlue wins
05-20-2013, 07:26 AM
I think Eli Manning will be one of the greatest QB's this franchise will have seen for quite some time, probably never again in my lifetime (I'm only 29 years old). I do not give a damn what anybody else thinks, it was a trade that forever changed the Giants in a positive way. These scouts know way more than I could ever know, so my hats off to Ernie for grabbing a hall of famer for the giants.

With that said, it was a risk that paid handsomely.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 07:31 AM
For those saying EA was the best GM. I get it.. he got us Eli who I think is fantastic. But his drafts pre-Eli were nothing of note. In fact, you could say it was a mess. Out of 47 players drafted, only 5 players accomplished anything of note in a Giants uniform.

Osi, Shockey, Diehl, Tyree, Pettigout.

From 2004-2006, he was more productive. Out of 18 players selected (i'm counting Eli regardless of us drafting Rivers), he produced Tuck, Jacobs, Webster, Cofield, Kiwanuka, and of course Eli. So he started out badly but finished strong. I wouldn't say he was as good as Young. You could argue Reese has done just as good a job in a few years.

Flip Empty
05-20-2013, 07:49 AM
He recovered to a have a decent year, but he was forcing a lot of throws into good coverage.

He recovered (statistically, at least) once the Chargers added 6-5 Danario Alexander to the roster. Rivers did not have a good year, though - he literally threw multiple games away. He was bad enough that he'll be playing for his job this upcoming season.

Also, for all the bone-headed interceptions Eli has thrown over the years, it'll be tough to find one that matches up to this, from the Chargers vs Bucs game last season:

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/marmpick.gif

EliDaMANning
05-20-2013, 09:17 AM
Philip Rivers is the same guy who threw the ball away on 4th down in the final drive of a game a year or two ago. Imagine he did that with us, there would've been 3 pages worth of threads on it.

There are certain QB that are stat conscious. Rivers, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees etc. I'm glad I root for a team that has a QB who prefers winning over fantasy stats.

nhpgiantsfan
05-20-2013, 09:17 AM
It's funny that so many people compare Eli to Rivers and wonder what would've been if we didn't make the trade. Rivers was never going to be a Giant!!! EA only drafter Rivers because San Diego wanted him in the trade. If EA couldn't work a deal with the Chargers, he was going to draft Ben. So when wondering how the Giants would've fared if they didn't make the trade, you really need to compare him to Big Ben.

gumby74
05-20-2013, 09:21 AM
I think Eli Manning will be one of the greatest QB's this franchise will have seen for quite some time, probably never again in my lifetime (I'm only 29 years old). I do not give a damn what anybody else thinks, it was a trade that forever changed the Giants in a positive way. These scouts know way more than I could ever know, so my hats off to Ernie for grabbing a hall of famer for the giants.

With that said, it was a risk that paid handsomely.

Now this, I can respect. My hats off to you.

Thiergow
05-20-2013, 09:52 AM
During Eli's first years in the NFL, it looked like the Chargers got the better of this deal but when you look at it now, it's obvious the Giants ripped off the Chargers. Even if all the players drafted by SD with the Giants pick were still with the Chargers today, nothing beats 2 Super Bowl rings.

giantsfan420
05-20-2013, 10:26 AM
is someone trying to say rivers is better than eli???? really???? The same P. Rivers who is ranked WORSE than Sanchez on passes of 10 yds or more? The same Rivers who is ranked WORSE than Sanchez in the redzone???? PUHLEASE...thats complete BS. When LT2 left and AG had that foot issue reducing how much more athletic he was than the LB's covering him, Rivers hasnt had 2 HoF's to lean on.
He is 68% compl on passes 10 yds or less, so thats good i guess...but the past 2-3 yrs, Rivers hasnt been near Elis level

giantsfan420
05-20-2013, 10:28 AM
Philip Rivers is the same guy who threw the ball away on 4th down in the final drive of a game a year or two ago. Imagine he did that with us, there would've been 3 pages worth of threads on it.

There are certain QB that are stat conscious. Rivers, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees etc. I'm glad I root for a team that has a QB who prefers winning over fantasy stats.yup vs the Jets on 4th and 10...he threw it to the first row of the stands. he's a complete stat *****

giantsfan420
05-20-2013, 10:33 AM
and he already played for his job and failed last season. He pleaded to keep Turner and their GM. He promised that it wasnt the coaching, but the players himself included. they were supposed to play fr Turner, and the GM's job (the one who made that trade for this piece of hot trash) which by ext. is playing for his(Rivers) job. He failed hrribly. And I guarantee SD woulda taken a QB were there actually a franchise QB in the draft. they didnt wanna get stuck with a QB on Rivers level and thats all the qbs in the draft offered. so SD kept him. also, McCoy their HC says he wants Rivers att 70%...hahaha. maybe 5 yrs ago with Prime AG and LT2...

he is HORRIBLE, i never seen a QB single handedly lose so many games. 2 yrs ago, they were in FG position late vs KC. All Rivers had to do was kneel, and the fg unit was gonna kick w like 5 sec left a 15 yd fg for the win...HE FUMBLED THE SNAP, KC RECOVERED. lmfao...

EliDaMANning
05-20-2013, 10:43 AM
yup vs the Jets on 4th and 10...he threw it to the first row of the stands. he's a complete stat *****ROFL. Wow that was worse than Rodgers taking a bunch of sacks vs Seattle instead of throwing the ball away in order to protect his completetion percentage.

Drez
05-20-2013, 10:51 AM
For those saying EA was the best GM. I get it.. he got us Eli who I think is fantastic. But his drafts pre-Eli were nothing of note. In fact, you could say it was a mess. Out of 47 players drafted, only 5 players accomplished anything of note in a Giants uniform.

Osi, Shockey, Diehl, Tyree, Pettigout.

From 2004-2006, he was more productive. Out of 18 players selected (i'm counting Eli regardless of us drafting Rivers), he produced Tuck, Jacobs, Webster, Cofield, Kiwanuka, and of course Eli. So he started out badly but finished strong. I wouldn't say he was as good as Young. You could argue Reese has done just as good a job in a few years.Coincidentally, those were the years that Reese was the Director of Personnel and the major player in building the draft board.

Flip Empty
05-20-2013, 10:56 AM
There are certain QB that are stat conscious. Rivers, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees etc. I'm glad I root for a team that has a QB who prefers winning over fantasy stats.

Now come on, you're basically suggesting that certain quarterbacks try harder to score touchdowns than Eli, and that that's a bad thing.

When on earth is it bad to score points? In case you haven't noticed, "fantasy stats" tend to go hand-in-hand with winning.

Cherry-picked example:


Week 2 vs the Bucs - Eli throws 500 yards. Giants win.
Week 9 vs Pittsburgh - Eli throws 0 touchdowns. Giants lose.
Week 10 vs Cincinnati - Eli throws 0 touchdowns. Giants lose.
Week 14 vs New Orleans - Eli throws 4 touchdowns. Giants win.
Week 15 vs Atlanta - Eli throws 0 touchdowns. Giants lose.
Week 17 vs the Eagles - Eli throws 5 touchdowns. Giants win.
2011- Eli posts a career year statistics-wise. Giants win the Super Bowl.

Fantasy stats are bad, though.

Now obviously a team can win without its quarterback posting massive numbers, but to suggest that a quarterback can pick and choose when he wants to score is extremely silly. They all want to throw as many touchdowns as possible - if they didn't, they wouldn't be playing.

Drez
05-20-2013, 11:02 AM
Now come on, you're basically suggesting that certain quarterbacks try harder to score touchdowns than Eli, and that that's a bad thing.

When on earth is it bad to score points? In case you haven't noticed, "fantasy stats" tend to go hand-in-hand with winning.

Cherry-picked example:

Week 2 vs the Bucs - Eli throws 500 yards. Giants win.
Week 9 vs Pittsburgh - Eli throws 0 touchdowns. Giants lose.
Week 10 vs Cincinnati - Eli throws 0 touchdowns. Giants lose.
Week 14 vs New Orleans - Eli throws 4 touchdowns. Giants win.
Week 15 vs Atlanta - Eli throws 0 touchdowns. Giants lose.
Week 17 vs the Eagles - Eli throws 5 touchdowns. Giants win.
2011- Eli posts a career year statistics-wise. Giants win the Super Bowl.

Fantasy stats are bad, though.

Now obviously a team can win without its quarterback posting massive numbers, but to suggest that a quarterback can pick and choose when he wants to score is extremely silly. They all want to throw as many touchdowns as possible - if they didn't, they wouldn't be playing.I think he's talking more about comp% and not throwing picks by taking sacks when the ball can either be thrown away or a tough throw be made, rather than wanting to throw TDs.

Thiergow
05-20-2013, 11:08 AM
It depends of the opportunity. Sometimes it's better to take a sack rather than trying a risky throw (eg. the left hand pass on 3rd down against the Titans in 2010) other times the risk is worth it (long ball on a 3rd down that is intercepted is almost like a punt and one of the best example we have recently is the Manning to Manningham pass during SB XLVI).

I think that what makes Eli great is that today (wasn't the case when he arrived in the NFL) is that he is pretty good at evaluating the risk and he is not afraid of taking them when necessary.

EliDaMANning
05-20-2013, 11:09 AM
I think he's talking more about comp% and not throwing picks by taking sacks when the ball can either be thrown away or a tough throw be made, rather than wanting to throw TDs.Yup, nothing wrong with wanting to throw TD or tons of yards but I prefer if the QB doesn't rub it in everyones face like a Brees.

Or take 8 sacks when at least half could've been thrown away like Rodgers vs. Seattle. Or Rivers throwing the ball into the stands on 4th down, icing the loss instead of risking an INT.

Drez
05-20-2013, 11:10 AM
It depends of the opportunity. Sometimes it's better to take a sack rather than trying a risky throw (eg. the left hand pass on 3rd down against the Titans in 2010) other times the risk is worth it (long ball on a 3rd down that is intercepted is almost like a punt and one of the best example we have recently is the Manning to Manningham pass during SB XLVI).

I think that what makes Eli great is that today (wasn't the case when he arrived in the NFL) is that he is pretty good at evaluating the risk and he is not afraid of taking them when necessary.The thing that people forget about the left handed pass is that Boss almost caught it and was intercepted after bouncing off his hands.

Flip Empty
05-20-2013, 11:12 AM
I think he's talking more about comp% and not throwing picks by taking sacks when the ball can either be thrown away or a tough throw be made, rather than wanting to throw TDs.
I guess I can understand that with Rivers and Brees, but what about Rodgers and Peyton? Peyton often sacks himself instead of putting the ball up for grabs.

Thiergow
05-20-2013, 11:14 AM
The thing that people forget about the left handed pass is that Boss almost caught it and was intercepted after bouncing off his hands.
Yes but why didn't he catch it? IMO it's because it was a wobbly slow pass that was hard to catch with defenders on his back. A normal pass from Eli would have been much quicker, precise and easier to catch.

No matter what it was a bad play on Eli's part who should have taken a sack rather than risk to lose 3 points.

Drez
05-20-2013, 11:15 AM
I guess I can understand that with Rivers and Brees, but what about Rodgers and Peyton? Peyton often sacks himself instead of putting the ball up for grabs.I think a lot of the times Rodgers will take a sack instead of throwing the ball away, especially seeing as he's often outside of the tackle box and doesn't need to worry about a grounding call. Peyton still gets rid of the ball quickly when seeing pressure, much like Eli. However, unlike Rodgers, he's more at risk for intentional grounding when trying to just throw the ball away.

Thiergow
05-20-2013, 11:16 AM
I guess I can understand that with Rivers and Brees, but what about Rodgers and Peyton? Peyton often sacks himself instead of putting the ball up for grabs.
Trusting receivers matters. Peyton looked like he had a hard time trusting anyone who wasn't Reggie Wayne or Harrison. Eli on the other hand sometimes trust a bit too much his WR/TE and thus is more enclined to put it up for grabs.

Drez
05-20-2013, 11:17 AM
Yes but why didn't he catch it? IMO it's because it was a wobbly slow pass that was hard to catch with defenders on his back. A normal pass from Eli would have been much quicker, precise and easier to catch.

No matter what it was a bad play on Eli's part who should have taken a sack rather than risk to lose 3 points.And if Boss catches it people talk about how badass Eli is throwing TDs left handed.

Thiergow
05-20-2013, 11:26 AM
And if Boss catches it people talk about how badass Eli is throwing TDs left handed.
More like how lucky Eli is throwing left handed.

I don't like when people say that Eli's success is all luck but if that play had been successful it would have been luck.

EliDaMANning
05-20-2013, 11:27 AM
I guess I can understand that with Rivers and Brees, but what about Rodgers and Peyton? Peyton often sacks himself instead of putting the ball up for grabs.Peyton is definitely stat hungry. Any QB who can completely ignore his running game and just air it out all the time wants to put up stats. The fact that he had a habit of doing this probably cost the Colts a few more deep playoff runs. It's a lot of fun beating up on the Jags and expansion Texans all those years, but when the playoffs rolled around, a running game is pretty useful.

ShakeandBake
05-20-2013, 11:36 AM
Peyton is definitely stat hungry. Any QB who can completely ignore his running game and just air it out all the time wants to put up stats. The fact that he had a habit of doing this probably cost the Colts a few more deep playoff runs. It's a lot of fun beating up on the Jags and expansion Texans all those years, but when the playoffs rolled around, a running game is pretty useful.

So it's the Quarterback's fault if there is no running game?

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 11:48 AM
For those saying EA was the best GM. I get it.. he got us Eli who I think is fantastic. But his drafts pre-Eli were nothing of note. In fact, you could say it was a mess. Out of 47 players drafted, only 5 players accomplished anything of note in a Giants uniform.

Osi, Shockey, Diehl, Tyree, Pettigout.

From 2004-2006, he was more productive. Out of 18 players selected (i'm counting Eli regardless of us drafting Rivers), he produced Tuck, Jacobs, Webster, Cofield, Kiwanuka, and of course Eli. So he started out badly but finished strong. I wouldn't say he was as good as Young. You could argue Reese has done just as good a job in a few years.


Ernie left Reese a team that went on to win two more Super Bowls.

Again, I'll give credit to George Young for turning around the franchise, but Parcells, Belichick and Coughlin have won 7 Super Bowls among them, and Young managed to retain none of them in favor of Ray Handley.

When Parcells was struggling through his 3-12-1 rookie season, and both his parents died, Young looked to replace him for Bo Schembechler. Young didn't get along with Parcells, and was the reason why Parcells was never able to return, despite several opportunities. Young didn't think Belichick was head coaching material. Young is the guy who showed Phil Simms the door in order to showcase the greatness of Dave Brown.....Young was unable to adjust to free agency...the list goes on.

Fact is, the Giants went downhill after Parcells, Belichick and Coughlin left........Accorsi fixed that by bringing Coughlin back, and left his successor with a much stronger team than he inherited.

In my opinion, Accorsi learned alot from George Young, including what not to do.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 12:53 PM
Coincidentally, those were the years that Reese was the Director of Personnel and the major player in building the draft board.

So he gets the blame on the picks EA missed on? Does he get credit for the Eli trade then?

Thiergow
05-20-2013, 12:58 PM
Ernie left Reese a team that went on to win two more Super Bowls.

Again, I'll give credit to George Young for turning around the franchise, but Parcells, Belichick and Coughlin have won 7 Super Bowls among them, and Young managed to retain none of them in favor of Ray Handley.

When Parcells was struggling through his 3-12-1 rookie season, and both his parents died, Young looked to replace him for Bo Schembechler. Young didn't get along with Parcells, and was the reason why Parcells was never able to return, despite several opportunities. Young didn't think Belichick was head coaching material. Young is the guy who showed Phil Simms the door in order to showcase the greatness of Dave Brown.....Young was unable to adjust to free agency...the list goes on.

Fact is, the Giants went downhill after Parcells, Belichick and Coughlin left........Accorsi fixed that by bringing Coughlin back, and left his successor with a much stronger team than he inherited.

In my opinion, Accorsi learned alot from George Young, including what not to do.
Apparently Young did not like Belichick (gave bad reviews each time another team expressed interest) and since Coughlin took the job at Boston College before he could offer him the HC position, he went for Handley. That was obviously a terrible choice.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 12:59 PM
Ernie left Reese a team that went on to win two more Super Bowls.

Again, I'll give credit to George Young for turning around the franchise, but Parcells, Belichick and Coughlin have won 7 Super Bowls among them, and Young managed to retain none of them in favor of Ray Handley.

When Parcells was struggling through his 3-12-1 rookie season, and both his parents died, Young looked to replace him for Bo Schembechler. Young didn't get along with Parcells, and was the reason why Parcells was never able to return, despite several opportunities. Young didn't think Belichick was head coaching material. Young is the guy who showed Phil Simms the door in order to showcase the greatness of Dave Brown.....Young was unable to adjust to free agency...the list goes on.

Fact is, the Giants went downhill after Parcells, Belichick and Coughlin left........Accorsi fixed that by bringing Coughlin back, and left his successor with a much stronger team than he inherited.

In my opinion, Accorsi learned alot from George Young, including what not to do.

That gives Reese no credit to say EA left him a team that won 2 SB's. I think we all know how much Reese's draft picks and free agents helped with the 2007 run and the 2011 run. That being said, I give credit for the players EA acquired, but Young has a better track record. If for Strahan and Armstead alone.

TheAnalyst
05-20-2013, 01:07 PM
EA was pretty bad at first round picks... He nailed the Eli pick though, but all his others, from Shockey, William Joseph, Will Allen, Ron Dayne were all busts. Ok, Shock played great for a minute in his rookie year...

IMO, Reese has a better idea on how to draft in the first round, but has no idea on how to draft or look for in a LB... Aaron Ross, KP, Nicks, JPP, Prince, Wilson.. Solid 1st round picks.

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 01:42 PM
That gives Reese no credit to say EA left him a team that won 2 SB's. I think we all know how much Reese's draft picks and free agents helped with the 2007 run and the 2011 run. That being said, I give credit for the players EA acquired, but Young has a better track record. If for Strahan and Armstead alone.

I disagree. I give Reese a ton of credit....he's been a great GM. My point is that Accorsi left Reese with a much better situation than the one he inherited when Young finally left.

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 01:43 PM
Apparently Young did not like Belichick (gave bad reviews each time another team expressed interest) and since Coughlin took the job at Boston College before he could offer him the HC position, he went for Handley. That was obviously a terrible choice.

Agreed....he completely mishandled the transition process. It was clear that Parcells and his guys (Belichick, Coughlin) were not highly valued by Young.

George Young deserved alot of credit for rebuilding the franchise, but in my opinion, his mistakes were the main reason for the deconstruction that followed.

Just prior to SB 42, Gary Meyer ran an article that discussed the Young/Belichick debacle....
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-blundered-ray-handley-hire-launched-bill-belichick-career-article-1.345698



The multiple Super Bowl rings, the brilliant game plans, the fashion statement with the gray hoodie and the cutoff sleeves, the reputation-damaging SpyGate scandal, the charming personality.

Take the whole package, even with the blemishes. Bill Belichick is headed to Canton.

The most embarrassing entry on his resume, until SpyGate, is that former Giants GM George Young designated Ray Handley - Ray Handley - instead of Belichick as the eventual successor to Bill Parcells long before Belichick left for Cleveland.

Now that Belichick has a chance to win his fourth Super Bowl with New England and Handley lasted two tumultuous years following Parcells, it's almost inconceivable what happened.

"I don't know why," one Giants insider said. "George had his mind made up. You have to understand, George was a cerebral guy. Ray Handley was a cerebral guy. There is no use dragging that up."

Belichick grew up as a coach with the Giants as Parcells' defensive genius. Young deserves credit for changing the culture of the Giants in 1979 when he hired Ray Perkins and then promoted Parcells when Perkins went to Alabama after the 1982 season. But Handley over Belichick?

Giants co-owner John Mara, who joined the team full-time right after Belichick left for Cleveland following the Super Bowl 17 years ago, said he was not aware that Young wanted Handley over Belichick, but acknowledged, "I know George had some issues with Belichick."

There was increasing speculation that Parcells was preparing to step down. He and Young never patched up their relationship after Young nearly fired Parcells and hired Howard Schnellenberger after Parcells went 3-12-1 in his first season, 1983. Both of Parcells' parents died during that season and Young was concerned that Parcells was overwhelmed.

It was common knowledge around the Giants during the 1990 season that Handley, who was Parcells' running backs coach and clock management guru, was going to be Young's choice over Belichick and Tom Coughlin, who was in his third year as the Giants' receivers coach. Belichick and Coughlin have that in common besides meeting in the Super Bowl on Sunday.

"To comment on what George's thinking was is really just conjecture," the insider said.

So, when Boston College wanted Coughlin as the '90 season came to a close, the Giants didn't stop him, although he remained through the Super Bowl. And when it became evident the Browns were going to hire Belichick immediately after the Super Bowl, Young did not step in to ask him to wait out Parcells, whose future was the talk of Super Bowl week in Tampa.

Parcells didn't do the Giants any favors by waiting until May 15, 1991, to resign, more than 3-1/2 months after the Super Bowl. Although he did not say it at the time, Parcells later revealed that heart problems were the reason he left.

Parcells took Young off the hook because Belichick and Coughlin were already gone by the time he quit, clearing the way for Young to hire Handley without much second-guessing......

Buddy333
05-20-2013, 01:45 PM
You guys realize that Reese was with the team for a long time and probably had a say in just about everyone on the 2007 team.

Drez
05-20-2013, 01:56 PM
So he gets the blame on the picks EA missed on? Does he get credit for the Eli trade then?IIRC, Reese took control of Player Personnel in '04. Maybe it was '02. However, if the overall quality of the drafts increased as Reese was gaining more influence in the FO, does that not speak to Reese's influence on those drafts?

Drez
05-20-2013, 01:58 PM
EA was pretty bad at first round picks... He nailed the Eli pick though, but all his others, from Shockey, William Joseph, Will Allen, Ron Dayne were all busts. Ok, Shock played great for a minute in his rookie year...

IMO, Reese has a better idea on how to draft in the first round, but has no idea on how to draft or look for in a LB... Aaron Ross, KP, Nicks, JPP, Prince, Wilson.. Solid 1st round picks.Ross is the only one that could really be called a bust.

Drez
05-20-2013, 02:01 PM
That gives Reese no credit to say EA left him a team that won 2 SB's. I think we all know how much Reese's draft picks and free agents helped with the 2007 run and the 2011 run. That being said, I give credit for the players EA acquired, but Young has a better track record. If for Strahan and Armstead alone.Young was also the GM in a completely different era of football. He showed a complete lack of understanding of free agency and the salary cap.

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 02:08 PM
Ross is the only one that could really be called a bust.

I wouldn't call Ross a bust....granted, he hasn't been the pro-bowler many were hoping for, but he's been part of 2 SB teams, and he's back on the team now.

Steady if unspectacular, in my opinion.....not a bust, but maybe a disappointment giving the lofty expectations and great rookie year.

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 02:10 PM
Young was also the GM in a completely different era of football. He showed a complete lack of understanding of free agency and the salary cap.

It was painful to watch.....we lost some very solid players, especially offensive lineman.

Watching Dave Brown getting clubbed like a baby seal against Dallas 2x per year.....that was George Young's team.

Drez
05-20-2013, 02:12 PM
I wouldn't call Ross a bust....granted, he hasn't been the pro-bowler many were hoping for, but he's been part of 2 SB teams, and he's back on the team now.

Steady if unspectacular, in my opinion.....not a bust, but maybe a disappointment giving the lofty expectations and great rookie year.He's been a pretty poor player for the vast majority of his career, save our SB runs. I'd have to say that qualifies him of at least being considered a bust.

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 02:13 PM
He's been a pretty poor player for the vast majority of his career, save our SB runs. I'd have to say that qualifies him of at least being considered a bust.

He's going to redeem himself this season.....I hear he wrote "win one for the Drezzer" on his cleats.

gumby74
05-20-2013, 02:17 PM
Ross is the only one that could really be called a bust. Can't really call Ross a bust. He was like the 25 overall pick. That and he at least greatly contributed to our SB run. his last season with us wasn't so hot, but overall he's been solid for us.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 02:21 PM
IIRC, Reese took control of Player Personnel in '04. Maybe it was '02. However, if the overall quality of the drafts increased as Reese was gaining more influence in the FO, does that not speak to Reese's influence on those drafts?

I'm not trying to pick a fight. But doesn't this statement validate Reese more than EA's contributions?

Thiergow
05-20-2013, 02:21 PM
Ross was pretty good during his 1st three years in the league. Then there was the 2010 when he was slowed down by injuries and he never got back to his old-self. I won't say he was elite or near-elite but he still was a good CB for someone drafted in the 1st round.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 02:25 PM
Young was also the GM in a completely different era of football. He showed a complete lack of understanding of free agency and the salary cap.
This is very true, but a lot of GM's did. He did pick some good players though I can never forgive the Jarrod Bunch pick...

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 02:29 PM
This is very true, but a lot of GM's did. He did pick some good players though I can never forgive the Jarrod Bunch pick...

Just to be clear on my comments....I think Young deserves alot of credit. Before he took over, the team was a crater. I just think he stayed in the game too long, and it wound up damaging his career accomplishments.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 02:30 PM
I disagree. I give Reese a ton of credit....he's been a great GM. My point is that Accorsi left Reese with a much better situation than the one he inherited when Young finally left.

I agree with that. I don't agree that he was a better GM than you since a few influential players on the Giants roster we Young picks. Strahan, Tiki, Toomer.

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 03:42 PM
I agree with that. I don't agree that he was a better GM than you since a few influential players on the Giants roster we Young picks. Strahan, Tiki, Toomer.

No doubt, those were good picks. He also drafted Simms, LT, Banks, etc.

In fact, it's probably a good thing we had George Young back then, because if not, Reese would have probably let L.T. fall to the Jets.

"We really love Rich Campbell.....his value as a franchise QB was too high to pass up." :cool:

Morehead State
05-20-2013, 03:45 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/05/19/former-giants-gm-ernie-accorsi-on-trading-for-eli-manning-there-is-no-price-too-high-for-greatness/

Excerpt: "New York Giants fans know the story of the 2004 NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Draft. The Giants went 4-12 in 2003 and possessed the number four selection as a result of the season. With Kerry Collins leaving, then-General Manager Ernie Accorsi (http://www.giants101.com/tag/ernie-accorsi/) wanted to draft a quarterback to take over the franchise.

The San Diego Chargers had the first pick and many felt that they would select Eli Manning (http://www.giants101.com/tag/eli-manning/) out of Ole Miss, but the younger brother of Peyton Manning wasn't interested in going to San Diego.

In an interview with NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Network, Accorsi reflected on how the day of the 2004 NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Draft turned out and how the Giants future was altered.

Accorsi on scouting Manning:

"I scouted him back in 2002 and he nearly beat Auburn by himself. The next year, he took his team to the Cotton Bowl and won. My gut feeling was that if we could trade up for him, we needed to do it," he said." Read more...






This is actually bad reporting. Kerry Collins had no intention of leaving. When Eli was drafted they told him to take a pay cut or be released. He refused to take a pay cut.

Drez
05-20-2013, 03:56 PM
I'm not trying to pick a fight. But doesn't this statement validate Reese more than EA's contributions?To a certain degree, yes. EA still has the final say, though.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 04:33 PM
This is actually bad reporting. Kerry Collins had no intention of leaving. When Eli was drafted they told him to take a pay cut or be released. He refused to take a pay cut.

Now keep in mind the source, but Accorsi claims then that he wanted to renegotiate his contract to defer money to a bonus or voidable years since the cap hit was so high then, but Collins refused.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1790040

Harooni
05-20-2013, 05:06 PM
well in person he did tell me we couldnt go wrong with Big Ben also.

EliMVP-NYG
05-20-2013, 07:20 PM
well in person he did tell me we couldnt go wrong with Big Ben also.

Eli is 2 for 2, Ben is 2 for 3. Once Eli gets his third shot you will be proven wrong once again.

GameTime
05-20-2013, 07:53 PM
well in person he did tell me we couldnt go wrong with Big Ben also.
but no one will ever know what would have happened if BB were a NYG....
so it really means nothing

BlueBlitzer
05-20-2013, 08:58 PM
Here's a player who would never think of entering a football field without a helmet, yet nearly gets himself killed because He was riding a motorcycle without one. An let us not forget this paragon of virtue, was caught banging some Georgia cheerleader ( Were Pom Poms involved ? ) in a Mens Toilet with His bodyguard standing watch. The two SBs He won was against Seahawks and Cardinals ( And Ben still should be sending Warner Christmas presents for that Pick Six He threw.) When He had to play a really good team, ( Packers ) He lost. No Not a win win for us if we had picked Him.

4thand1
05-20-2013, 09:07 PM
Here's a player who would never think of entering a football field without a helmet, yet nearly gets himself killed because He was riding a motorcycle without one. An let us not forget this paragon of virtue, was caught banging some Georgia cheerleader ( Were Pom Poms involved ? ) in a Mens Toilet with His bodyguard standing watch. The two SBs He won was against Seahawks and Cardinals ( And Ben still should be sending Warner Christmas presents for that Pick Six He threw.) When He had to play a really good team, ( Packers ) He lost. No Not a win win for us if we had picked Him.

Not to mention he carried the 2005 steelers with a 22.6 passer rating in the super bowl.

rebelfan1966
05-21-2013, 11:03 AM
And not to mention, BB has two sexual assualt complaints against him that I know of.... how embarrassing would that be for the Giants Organization.

rebelfan1966
05-21-2013, 11:04 AM
This is actually bad reporting. Kerry Collins had no intention of leaving. When Eli was drafted they told him to take a pay cut or be released. He refused to take a pay cut.

I heard he pitched a tantrum..

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 11:05 AM
And not to mention, BB has two sexual assualt complaints against him that I know of.... how embarrassing would that be for the Giants Organization.

Pretty embarrassing I would imagine, especially considering BB used to be on the Giants staff.....

rebelfan1966
05-21-2013, 11:10 AM
Pretty embarrassing I would imagine, especially considering BB used to be on the Giants staff.....

Really? When was Big Ben on staff with the Giants? Did not know this.

Thiergow
05-21-2013, 11:11 AM
And not to mention, BB has two sexual assualt complaints against him that I know of.... how embarrassing would that be for the Giants Organization.


Pretty embarrassing I would imagine, especially considering BB used to be on the Giants staff.....
Didn't know that Bill Berthusen did that...

rebelfan1966
05-21-2013, 11:13 AM
Didn't know that Bill Berthusen did that...

Alright... a couple wiseguys !!! lol

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 11:16 AM
Really? When was Big Ben on staff with the Giants? Did not know this.

Maybe because no one refers to Big Ben as BB, on these boards BB is used for Bill Belichick.

giantsfan420
05-21-2013, 11:18 AM
Here's a player who would never think of entering a football field without a helmet, yet nearly gets himself killed because He was riding a motorcycle without one. An let us not forget this paragon of virtue, was caught banging some Georgia cheerleader ( Were Pom Poms involved ? ) in a Mens Toilet with His bodyguard standing watch. The two SBs He won was against Seahawks and Cardinals ( And Ben still should be sending Warner Christmas presents for that Pick Six He threw.) When He had to play a really good team, ( Packers ) He lost. No Not a win win for us if we had picked Him.yup. all that and he just doesnt compare to eli from a mental aspect. while ben has been successful, its been at the dentriment to his body and by extension team. plus, hes also been suspended for horrible off field action. it'd be fun seeing him break tackles and throw tds, but itd suck having to hope carr could carry us 1/4 of the yr like 4 or 5 different times...
I prefer Eli who can break defenses down w/o having to play russian roulette with would be sackers and understtanding presnap what the D's weakness will be. He's been more successful imho as a pure pocket passing assasin while Bens had to be more of a backyard type, extend a play so a wr can break off his route and get behind the D QB. This past yr, they tried going to a more underneath, read the D type offense going deep much less and while ben was a good qb, he was nowhere near effective and often still tried to force broken plays...

nah. that w/ KG (whom maybe wouldnt even be the OC who knows) would be disastrous imo. plus the off field stuff...keep in mind, he did what he did in the small media market of Pitt where in PA, Dennys waitresses are hot lol. Imagine him in NYC where theres every sort of vice offered? WHo knows how much further he coulda gone...
elis the better qb on and off the field and ive maintained this for years and years and years. now its finally apparent enough where most fair people will agree.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 11:28 AM
yup. all that and he just doesnt compare to eli from a mental aspect. while ben has been successful, its been at the dentriment to his body and by extension team. plus, hes also been suspended for horrible off field action. it'd be fun seeing him break tackles and throw tds, but itd suck having to hope carr could carry us 1/4 of the yr like 4 or 5 different times...
I prefer Eli who can break defenses down w/o having to play russian roulette with would be sackers and understtanding presnap what the D's weakness will be. He's been more successful imho as a pure pocket passing assasin while Bens had to be more of a backyard type, extend a play so a wr can break off his route and get behind the D QB. This past yr, they tried going to a more underneath, read the D type offense going deep much less and while ben was a good qb, he was nowhere near effective and often still tried to force broken plays...

nah. that w/ KG (whom maybe wouldnt even be the OC who knows) would be disastrous imo. plus the off field stuff...keep in mind, he did what he did in the small media market of Pitt where in PA, Dennys waitresses are hot lol. Imagine him in NYC where theres every sort of vice offered? WHo knows how much further he coulda gone...
elis the better qb on and off the field and ive maintained this for years and years and years. now its finally apparent enough where most fair people will agree.

Assasin? ............. Hahahaha!!!!!!!

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 11:29 AM
yup. all that and he just doesnt compare to eli from a mental aspect. while ben has been successful, its been at the dentriment to his body and by extension team. plus, hes also been suspended for horrible off field action. it'd be fun seeing him break tackles and throw tds, but itd suck having to hope carr could carry us 1/4 of the yr like 4 or 5 different times...
I prefer Eli who can break defenses down w/o having to play russian roulette with would be sackers and understtanding presnap what the D's weakness will be. He's been more successful imho as a pure pocket passing assasin while Bens had to be more of a backyard type, extend a play so a wr can break off his route and get behind the D QB. This past yr, they tried going to a more underneath, read the D type offense going deep much less and while ben was a good qb, he was nowhere near effective and often still tried to force broken plays...

nah. that w/ KG (whom maybe wouldnt even be the OC who knows) would be disastrous imo. plus the off field stuff...keep in mind, he did what he did in the small media market of Pitt where in PA, Dennys waitresses are hot lol. Imagine him in NYC where theres every sort of vice offered? WHo knows how much further he coulda gone...
elis the better qb on and off the field and ive maintained this for years and years and years. now its finally apparent enough where most fair people will agree.

I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but sorry man they are pretty much equal as it stands. Both have 2 superbowl wins, Eli has slightly more TDs yet more ints, and Eli has more yardage but a lower passing ranking. Both guys are tough as nails on the football field, I think after this year when we get another superbowl win(If Nicks, Cruz and Eli of course stay healthy) then the argument will be over.

gumby74
05-21-2013, 11:31 AM
Here's a player who would never think of entering a football field without a helmet, yet nearly gets himself killed because He was riding a motorcycle without one. An let us not forget this paragon of virtue, was caught banging some Georgia cheerleader ( Were Pom Poms involved ? ) in a Mens Toilet with His bodyguard standing watch. The two SBs He won was against Seahawks and Cardinals ( And Ben still should be sending Warner Christmas presents for that Pick Six He threw.) When He had to play a really good team, ( Packers ) He lost. No Not a win win for us if we had picked Him.

The 2004 draft worked out best for all 3 teams involved. We got Eli and won our SBs. Pitt got Ben and won their SBs. Rivers went to SD and turned their franchise around.

But to say Rivers or Ben wouldn't have worked out here is a stretch.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 11:35 AM
The 2004 draft worked out best for all 3 teams involved. We got Eli and won our SBs. Pitt got Ben and won their SBs. Rivers went to SD and turned their franchise around.

But to say Rivers or Ben wouldn't have worked out here is a stretch.
I never got the "Rivers couldn't handle NY" nonsense. Since when do New Yorkers not love players who get into the faces of their opponents?

rebelfan1966
05-21-2013, 11:50 AM
Maybe because no one refers to Big Ben as BB, on these boards BB is used for Bill Belichick.

That's odd, because I only used BB because someone else on this very thread was also using BB to refer to Big Ben. Sooooooooooooo, there goes your theory ;-)

GameTime
05-21-2013, 11:54 AM
hypothetical situations are really just guesses to what has never happened and in actuality have no solid answer at all. No one will ever know what Ben would have done on the Giants or Rivers. Or Eli in SD. So when it comes down to it any points made to that subject are useless.

giantsfan420
05-21-2013, 12:07 PM
I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but sorry man they are pretty much equal as it stands. Both have 2 superbowl wins, Eli has slightly more TDs yet more ints, and Eli has more yardage but a lower passing ranking. Both guys are tough as nails on the football field, I think after this year when we get another superbowl win(If Nicks, Cruz and Eli of course stay healthy) then the argument will be over.thats fine. ur entitled to ur opinion. i still maintain that most fair, knowledgeable fans of the game will easily say eli is the better pocket qb.

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 12:24 PM
thats fine. ur entitled to ur opinion. i still maintain that most fair, knowledgeable fans of the game will easily say eli is the better pocket qb.

Nice, an under handed, passive-aggressive insult from someone who has the typing skills of 5 year old. I most certainly take your opinion seriously.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 12:39 PM
Nice, an under handed, passive-aggressive insult from someone who has the typing skills of 5 year old. I most certainly take your opinion seriously.
Cultist on Cultist crimes.

You guys gotta stick together.
Hahahaha!!!!

Roosevelt
05-21-2013, 01:04 PM
Cultist on Cultist crimes.

You guys gotta stick together.
Hahahaha!!!!

This thread has gotten very interesting. :)

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 01:06 PM
This thread has gotten very interesting. :)
When they start turning on each other, its the first sign of total collapse.
Maybe one particular poster will start fighting with himself. Hahahaha!!!

BigBlue wins
05-21-2013, 01:17 PM
Now this, I can respect. My hats off to you.

Thank you Sir :)

Roosevelt
05-21-2013, 01:47 PM
When they start turning on each other, its the first sign of total collapse.
Maybe one particular poster will start fighting with himself. Hahahaha!!!

lol.

And all this time I thought they saved the under-handed passive aggressive insults for us.

rebelfan1966
05-21-2013, 01:49 PM
I think Eli is a much smarter QB than Big Ben. Rivers is one heck of a QB, a little on the chippy side, but he likely would have done well in NY. Between Ben or Rivers, I would have picked Rivers even though Ben has some hardware. However, all said, I still think NY got the best QB of the three.

gumby74
05-21-2013, 01:57 PM
lol.

And all this time I thought they saved the under-handed passive aggressive insults for us.

I think the disagreement was staged actually. It's pretty obvious that it's the same pocketful of individuals. but hey, more entertainment for us!

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 02:14 PM
I think the disagreement was staged actually. It's pretty obvious that it's the same pocketful of individuals. but hey, more entertainment for us!
No....420 is not the same as these other screen names. there are 4 or 5 that are the same guy. 420 isn't one of them.

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 02:29 PM
I think the disagreement was staged actually. It's pretty obvious that it's the same pocketful of individuals. but hey, more entertainment for us!

may b if i talkd like dis u mite confus me four 420.

gumby74
05-21-2013, 02:39 PM
No....420 is not the same as these other screen names. there are 4 or 5 that are the same guy. 420 isn't one of them.

420 has a few, but i wasn't referring to 420.

Edit: This needs to be it's own thread. "Who has the most user ids?"

But there are so many 2012/2013ers that I'm starting to get confused. It's part of their master plan i tell you.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 02:42 PM
420 has a few, but i wasn't referring to 420.

Edit: This needs to be it's own thread. "Who has the most user ids?"

But there are so many 2012/2013ers that I'm starting to get confused. It's part of their master plan i tell you.
I count 5 for one guy.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 02:43 PM
may b if i talkd like dis u mite confus me four 420.
Yes he does use text speak and I personally hate it. But he does on occasion contribute to the debate instead of looking to wreck threads.

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 03:02 PM
Yes he does use text speak and I personally hate it. But he does on occasion contribute to the debate instead of looking to wreck threads.

Are you serious? I haven't tried to wreck one thread, yet mine in turn was wrecked. Also, 420 starts more arguments and wrecks more threads than anyone else on the boards.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 03:08 PM
Are you serious? I haven't tried to wreck one thread, yet mine in turn was wrecked. Also, 420 starts more arguments and wrecks more threads than anyone else on the boards.
Spare me.

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 03:10 PM
Spare me.

I think you, gumby, and Roosevelt are the same person, its so obvious. See? I can make ridiculous assumptions too!

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 03:13 PM
I think you, gumby, and Roosevelt are the same person, its so obvious. See? I can make ridiculous assumptions too!
So what?

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 03:24 PM
So what?

Sorry, I'm not as naive as you are.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 03:37 PM
Sorry, I'm not as naive as you are.
Who is?

Anyway, I'm not positive about you but I would say that I'm 95% sure. As far as the other 4 screen names.....there is.................. NO DOUBT.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/popcrush.com/files/2012/11/NoDoubt.jpg

jecomerfor
05-21-2013, 03:42 PM
Actually, article is incorrect. Kerry Collins wasn't leaving. Once the Giants drafted Eli, he asked for, and received his release.

gumby74
05-21-2013, 03:51 PM
Who is?

Anyway, I'm not positive about you but I would say that I'm 95% sure. As far as the other 4 screen names.....there is.................. NO DOUBT.



Only the mods know..... Different people or not, I think that 420 vs MVP was staged. I don't think I've ever seen 420 back down/not comment from a childish remark directed at him.

GameTime
05-21-2013, 03:52 PM
Who is?

Anyway, I'm not positive about you but I would say that I'm 95% sure. As far as the other 4 screen names.....there is.................. NO DOUBT.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/popcrush.com/files/2012/11/NoDoubt.jpg
gotta be Harooni on the far right....:)

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 03:52 PM
Only the mods know.....
Why do you say that? He could have an Ipnone, a PC, an Ipad and he could also open accounts on a friends computer.

gumby74
05-21-2013, 03:57 PM
Why do you say that? He could have an Ipnone, a PC, an Ipad and he could also open accounts on a friends computer.

Hmm true. But I think every time you log in as any id, your IP gets saved. I could be wrong though. So there's gotta be some sort of pattern of IP accessing the same accounts over and over again.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 04:00 PM
Hmm true. But I think every time you log in as any id, your IP gets saved. I could be wrong though. So there's gotta be some sort of pattern of IP accessing the same accounts over and over again.
Trust me. When a guy shows up with next to zero posts, and argues with you as if he's known you for a while with the exact same attitude and prejudices as other specific posters, its pretty obvious.

His mistake is being equally ridiculous as each screen name.

EliDaMANning
05-21-2013, 04:37 PM
Why do you say that? He could have an Ipnone, a PC, an Ipad and he could also open accounts on a friends computer.Says the guy still carrying a beeper with him.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 04:41 PM
Says the guy still carrying a beeper with him.
I'm wondering why it hasn't gone off in a few years.

EliDaMANning
05-21-2013, 04:44 PM
I'm wondering why it hasn't gone off in a few years.Panasonic batteries probably died out.

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 04:46 PM
Panasonic batteries probably died out.
You can't win.......You can't beat me.
You really need to stop trying.

Die-Hard
05-21-2013, 04:50 PM
I cant even begin to fathom just what is wrong with a select few of you who always seem to be right in the middle of the ongoing problem threads. If they weren't problem threads before, you guys turn them into problem threads eventually. If you cant talk football without verbally bashing each other, or trying to figure out who is who, or pushing buttons to rile people up...well, its going to end for all of you, and very soon. I'm so tired of seeing perfectly good threads spiral out of control, and I swear, I'm half a step away from IP banning every one of you who always seem to be right at the middle of the issue. Its the same people, over and over again.

Look, I get it. You're having fun, but whats happening in the process is that other people aren't, and its not fair to them to have to look at this nonsense in every thread about Eli Manning. No one has ratted anyone else out. Truthfully, no one has to, because as soon as I see an Eli thread, I know that it's probably full of stupidity, and I tend to watch those threads. They end up getting locked or deleted 99% of the time, and that shouldn't happen.

So help me, its going to stop, or I will simply clean house immediately with no further warning. I dont want any questions or commentary, and no "clarification" will be given, as I think I'm being crystal clear with my intentions. Stop the bickering, stop the attacks, or you will not post here anymore. We have been lenient, and have given plenty of warnings, and it still continues, so I'd tread lightly going forward. I dont have to mention any names, but you know who you are.