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View Full Version : How Good Can The Giants' Running Game Be?



RoanokeFan
05-20-2013, 12:56 PM
http://www.bigblueview.com/2013/5/20/4346720/new-york-giants-david-wilson-henry-hynoski-justin-pugh

Excerpt: "The story of how the New York Giants were the worst rushing team in the league in 2011 when they won the Super Bowl is well known because it sparked a lot of debate about the importance of the running game in the modern NFL. Despite winning the Super Bowl the Giants have shown through their actions that they were not satisfied with being a marginal running team -- actions like drafting David Wilson in the first round in the 2012 NFL draft and then Justin Pugh in the first round of the 2013 NFL Draft.

And after bottoming out in 2011 (see chart below), I'm feeling the Giants could have one of the top running games in the league in 2013. One of the unheralded factors in why I think the Giants running game could be a strength of the team this year was recently highlighted by Pro Football Focus (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/16/khaleds-nfl-daily-may-16-2013/).

For those wondering how we determine a “success rate”, I’ll define it the same way a number of the teams we work with do: collecting 40 percent of required yardage on first down, 60 percent of required yardage on second down, and 100 percent on either third or fourth down.

The results are interesting.





Henry Hynoski
103
114
217
47.47%


Will Tukuafu
28
32
60
46.67%


Jed Collins
69
91
160
43.13%


Charles Clay
28
37
65
43.08%


Jerome Felton
108
144
252
42.86%


Vonta Leach
103
143
246
41.87%


Darrel Young
82
115
197
41.62%


James Casey
103
145
248
41.53%


Lex Hilliard
70
99
169
41.42%


Jorvorskie Lane
77
109
186
41.40%



The Giants’ “Hynocerous” leads the way in an indication of the Giants’ rushing attack being far more potent when he is on the field (he was also lined up at fullback for 15 of their touchdown runs). Behind him you get Will Tukuafu whose 46.67 percent puts the 39.27 percent of Bruce Miller (who finished 13th) to shame.


The Giants are one of the few teams who consistently use a fullback -- and according to Pro Football Focus are the team that benefits most from the play of their fullback. The continued importance of the run game to Tom Coughlin should not be understated and this year we I expect the Giants to have more rushing opportunities (last year they were 22nd in the league in attempts). Hynoski's continued development as well as the second year for the exciting Wilson and the addition of Pugh in the lineup sets up the Giants with perhaps their best running game weapons since 2008." Read more...

TheAnalyst
05-20-2013, 01:01 PM
This all gets blown up by Gilbride's fascination of the aerial attack, even on 3rd and short. I wopuld love the Giants to get to the ground and pound game again, in 2008 it was doing wonders till Plax plaxxed himself in the plax. Get that running game back and it will improve every aspect of the offense.

Thanks RF

RoanokeFan
05-20-2013, 01:06 PM
This all gets blown up by Gilbride's fascination of the aerial attack, even on 3rd and short. I wopuld love the Giants to get to the ground and pound game again, in 2008 it was doing wonders till Plax plaxxed himself in the plax. Get that running game back and it will improve every aspect of the offense.

Thanks RF

I think the inconsistent OLine was more of a problem than we might think. I don't think the team has yet looked for the passing attack to "carry the day" as a philosophy but the running game has to get back on track.

TheAnalyst
05-20-2013, 01:10 PM
I think the inconsistent OLine was more of a problem than we might think. I don't think the team has yet looked for the passing attack to "carry the day" as a philosophy but the running game has to get back on track.

Oh, I have been saying that for years. We need a boost at the OL position. Almost any average RB can look great behind a great OL (derrek ward for example), but a great RB can look bad behind a bad OL. I hope Pugh is the next Snee at worst though.

egyptian420
05-20-2013, 01:18 PM
From Jacobs and Bradshaw to Andre Brown and Wilson....business as usual.

I like this AB/Wilson combination, looking forward to what they can do next year.

RoanokeFan
05-20-2013, 01:23 PM
Oh, I have been saying that for years. We need a boost at the OL position. Almost any average RB can look great behind a great OL (derrek ward for example), but a great RB can look bad behind a bad OL. I hope Pugh is the next Snee at worst though.

I'm hoping for Pugh to continue working at RT. I would much rather have Snee at LG than Diehl at RT as a starter. Pugh's versatility is going to be a huge plus for us over the long term.

RoanokeFan
05-20-2013, 01:24 PM
From Jacobs and Bradshaw to Andre Brown and Wilson....business as usual.

I like this AB/Wilson combination, looking forward to what they can do next year.

+1

ryan12
05-20-2013, 01:30 PM
+1

+2

FishinTheSalt
05-20-2013, 01:32 PM
I'm hoping for Pugh to continue working at RT. I would much rather have Snee at LG than Diehl at RT as a starter. Pugh's versatility is going to be a huge plus for us over the long term.

Totally agree, I think Wilson and Brown are plenty capable, just need the line to do their part. Should be fun to watch.

RoanokeFan
05-20-2013, 02:08 PM
Totally agree, I think Wilson and Brown are plenty capable, just need the line to do their part. Should be fun to watch.

The thing I like most about Brown is his patience behind the line.

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 02:15 PM
This all gets blown up by Gilbride's fascination of the aerial attack, even on 3rd and short. I wopuld love the Giants to get to the ground and pound game again, in 2008 it was doing wonders till Plax plaxxed himself in the plax. Get that running game back and it will improve every aspect of the offense.

Thanks RF

I agree....I think the running game would be alot better of Gilbride stopped trying to be so clever. I also think his mancrush on Bradshaw hurt both the running game and Bradshaw in 2012.

Reese has spoken.....it's time for Wilson to get the rock.

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 02:16 PM
The thing I like most about Brown is his patience behind the line.

He's the best I've seen since Tiki Barber in that respect.

Tiki was the absolute best in terms of field vision....Brown was very good though.

SimmsandLT
05-20-2013, 02:38 PM
I agree....I think the running game would be alot better of Gilbride stopped trying to be so clever. I also think his mancrush on Bradshaw hurt both the running game and Bradshaw in 2012.

Reese has spoken.....it's time for Wilson to get the rock.
My problem is not so much Gilbride's playcalling. It's with the personnel he uses doing it. A pitch out 4 yards deep on 3rd and 1 with a 6'5 260lb running back with no lateral quickness? A TE screen with slow footed Bear Pascoe?!

TheAnalyst
05-20-2013, 03:26 PM
I'm hoping for Pugh to continue working at RT. I would much rather have Snee at LG than Diehl at RT as a starter. Pugh's versatility is going to be a huge plus for us over the long term.'

Oh, well I would hope so. I was saying Snee's talent level though. Snee was a better OL then Diehl IMO, but Diehl had the versatility for sure, like Pugh should have. If he isnt our starting RT in the future (or even present), we missed on the pick.

egyptian420
05-20-2013, 03:48 PM
The thing I like most about Brown is his patience behind the line.He waits for the play to develop then pounds through with decent speed. If he could stay healthy I could definitely see him having a good year. We also used him a lot on the goal line last year, I'm expecting that to continiue.

RoanokeFan
05-20-2013, 03:53 PM
He waits for the play to develop then pounds through with decent speed. If he could stay healthy I could definitely see him having a good year. We also used him a lot on the goal line last year, I'm expecting that to continiue.

+1

joemorrisforprez
05-20-2013, 03:57 PM
My problem is not so much Gilbride's playcalling. It's with the personnel he uses doing it. A pitch out 4 yards deep on 3rd and 1 with a 6'5 260lb running back with no lateral quickness? A TE screen with slow footed Bear Pascoe?!

I agree....sometimes the man drives me crazy. When he took out Wilson for Kregg Lumpkin last season, I almost flipped my lid.

egyptian420
05-20-2013, 08:22 PM
I agree....sometimes the man drives me crazy. When he took out Wilson for Kregg Lumpkin last season, I almost flipped my lid.I expect them to trust Wilson a lot more this year and for him to share 45-50% of snaps with AB....That Lumpkin stuff drove me insane last year too. I guess they really wanted to show Wilson that the job must be earned and that he's not going to get it if he can't block.

nhpgiantsfan
05-20-2013, 08:38 PM
I'm still not sold on the running game. I'm a big fan of Andre Brown, but he hasn't proven that he can stay healthy. Wilson has shown flashes of greatness, but how will he handle being the every down back. I'm also not convinced that a rookie RT is going to step in and all of a sudden cure the offensive line. A lot of question marks, but I am hoping for the best.

B&RWarrior
05-20-2013, 10:23 PM
I'm hoping for Pugh to continue working at RT. I would much rather have Snee at LG than Diehl at RT as a starter. Pugh's versatility is going to be a huge plus for us over the long term.

Brewer may have the goods this year RF, then we can slide Pugh over to guard.

B&RWarrior
05-20-2013, 10:24 PM
I'm still not sold on the running game. I'm a big fan of Andre Brown, but he hasn't proven that he can stay healthy. Wilson has shown flashes of greatness, but how will he handle being the every down back. I'm also not convinced that a rookie RT is going to step in and all of a sudden cure the offensive line. A lot of question marks, but I am hoping for the best.

I share your concerns about the run blocking. Pugh is not a mauler.

B&RWarrior
05-20-2013, 10:28 PM
I agree....I think the running game would be alot better of Gilbride stopped trying to be so clever. I also think his mancrush on Bradshaw hurt both the running game and Bradshaw in 2012.

Reese has spoken.....it's time for Wilson to get the rock.

Everybody complained about AB last year but the fact is he averaged 4.6 yds/ carry. That's d*** good by any standard.

BlueSanta
05-20-2013, 11:02 PM
What I take away from this article is that our run game relies heavily on the fullback. No surprise really.

It also SCREAMS for us to stop running the shotgun draw.

giantsfan420
05-21-2013, 12:07 AM
I think the inconsistent OLine was more of a problem than we might think. I don't think the team has yet looked for the passing attack to "carry the day" as a philosophy but the running game has to get back on track.this. IMO, the reason we were 22nd in att last season was bc too many drives faltered too early, thus negating the opportunity at more attempts.
but whatever the reason, we still did attempt to establish the run each and every game. the reason we had to go so "aerial" is bc continuing letting the ineffective run game kill ya is pointless, eventually u stop doing what doesnt work.
throwing on 3rd and shorts suck when they fail, but it almost always is gonna give the offense the best coverage to attack downfield bc the D is cheating towards the LOS on an apparent run down. No one complains when that play works like 1 or 2 a game. We all remember the 1 time it failed when it was crunch time, but id venture, our conversion % on 3rd and shorts is better through the air than the run lol if u can believe it. maybe not last yr, but i know the yr or 2 before that, we were dead last on 3rd and 4th and short conversion thru the run

giantsfan420
05-21-2013, 12:13 AM
and my thoughts are we have a huge break out from Wilson. I expect him alone to be top 5 in yards, I truly do. I think he's gonna take the league by storm, esp if we can get Diehl off the field and Pugh on it.
Plus, I dont think AB2 gets hurt. I see him lasting all season, just bc i expect both them to think that he should be the starter, and we get a very nice friendly competition going.
Im gonna say, 1600 for DW, 800 for AB2, and the 3rd rb with like 200. I know, but I really am expecting a big year from the run game. for 1, d's are planning and focusing around eli n the pass. 2, we have a 3rd place schedule and I like our run game vs any D, but I believe we will be up late in games and will run the rock opposed from trying to come from behind with the pass. 3, I think Eli is going to lean on the run game a bit more earlier in the yr, bc i believe he did have a bit of a tired arm late in the yr, so I expect him to compensate for that some and not try to do it all with his arm.

Plus, I just see a unique skill set in DW that I dont see in anyone else, not even AP. AP is better dont get me wrong, but I think DW could eclipse him...his running style, speed, quickness, power, agility, its all like top notch and can score a td from anywher

Toadofsteel
05-21-2013, 12:21 AM
I expect them to trust Wilson a lot more this year and for him to share 45-50% of snaps with AB....That Lumpkin stuff drove me insane last year too. I guess they really wanted to show Wilson that the job must be earned and that he's not going to get it if he can't block.

Here's what I dont get though: Wilson is much more effective in space. From what I can tell there was exactly one screen they tried to do with Wilson running out into the flats to the left, but the play got blown up because Diehl... on the opposite side of the field. It was like they were hunting for excuses.

Honestly, Wilson should be either chip and run on 3rd down, or be sent into the flat if it's short yardatge to gain. Giving Wilson a full blocking assignment on 3rd down as opposed to providing an extra weapon downfield is like telling Eli to scramble... sure it might work once, and it will inevitably be a super highlight, but 90% of the time it's not going to work...
Hopefully Pugh can bring something to this OL... if we can improve on the line, we would have less need for the RB to stay in every time...

DarkSaint
05-21-2013, 12:22 AM
I agree with most of what you wrote. I think Eli may have had an injury, but a beastly running game immensely helps out our offense.
They gotta pick their poison. Either they stack the box to stop the run and have Cruz, Nicks and co kill them or DW and AB2 runs wild.

We are going to have historically great (for the giants at least) offensive numbers this year.

I'm giving DW 1400 with 11TDs and AB2 600 yards with 5TDs.

JoeGiantsFan926
05-21-2013, 05:42 AM
I share your concerns about the run blocking. Pugh is not a mauler.

None of our OL are maulers....TC likes him a lineman that is smart and athletic....he runs a zone-blocking-kinda scheme primarily....save for the inevitable 3rd and short....then KG dials up the old ShotgunDraw....which I feel is just about the single most despised play call in the history of play callin'.

BIG BLUE!!!!

SimmsandLT
05-21-2013, 07:17 AM
None of our OL are maulers....TC likes him a lineman that is smart and athletic....he runs a zone-blocking-kinda scheme primarily....save for the inevitable 3rd and short....then KG dials up the old ShotgunDraw....which I feel is just about the single most despised play call in the history of play callin'.

BIG BLUE!!!!
*Checks Gilbride's playbook* Incorrect sir! 3rd and short calls for the pitch out 5 yards deep. :)

JoeGiantsFan926
05-21-2013, 07:34 AM
*Checks Gilbride's playbook* Incorrect sir! 3rd and short calls for the pitch out 5 yards deep. :)


Yeah, you're right....3rd and short-pitch back...lose 2 yards......3rd and lil' longer that's when KG thinks "it'll work this time for sure..."...gained 2, needed 5.....doh! I can almost hear Giants fans across the land spewing all kinds of nasty towards our OC...."predictable" this...and "stupid" that. I, for one, don't put it on KG....me thinks he's doing a fine job. It's about execution....which some fans (my pop) are in favor of when talking about Killdrive...
.........BIG BLUE!!!!

ryan12
05-21-2013, 09:00 AM
I'm hoping for Pugh to continue working at RT. I would much rather have Snee at LG than Diehl at RT as a starter. Pugh's versatility is going to be a huge plus for us over the long term.

you want dd to start???

EliMVP-NYG
05-21-2013, 10:59 AM
+2

-1=1

Morehead State
05-21-2013, 11:37 AM
you want dd to start???
Right now....I'd say its 50/50.

ryan12
05-21-2013, 12:14 PM
Right now....I'd say its 50/50.

im asking if he "wants" dd to start. not if he thinks he will start. if brewer or pugh cant beat out dd at his point i would be very concerned