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GiantFanatic55
06-22-2013, 09:07 PM
Report: Giants pondering free agent FB Leach

The New York Daily News reports the Giants are "pondering a last-ditch effort" to sign free agent FB Vonta Leach.
Leach's agent mentioned the Giants as an interested team following last week's release from the Ravens, but this is confirmation from a credible news source. The G-Men are "worried" about the status of Henry Hynoski (knee) and prepared to up their offer. Leach is expected to pick a new team "early next week."

Source: New York Daily News
Jun 22 - 5:41 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2013/06/giants-may-still-make-a-run-at-vonta-leach

jomo
06-22-2013, 09:20 PM
No interest, use the money on the OL. Leach is good but not a an idispensable position.

BlueSanta
06-22-2013, 09:25 PM
No interest, use the money on the OL. Leach is good but not a an idispensable position.

I would agree with this in general and for most teams, except the stats of this team running with a fullback compared to running without are night and day. To this team, a fullback is indespensible.

That said, I still don't think he will sign with us. If he is smart he will pursue a job he can keep until he retires. That will never be the case here with Hyno rehabbing.

jomo
06-22-2013, 09:26 PM
I would agree with this in general and for most teams, except the stats of this team running with a fullback compared to running without are night and day. To this team, a fullback is indespensible.

That said, I still don't think he will sign with us. If he is smart he will pursue a job he can keep until he retires. That will never be the case here with Hyno rehabbing.We did what we did with a fullback who can be replaced for pennies. Don't waste a nickle on Leach.

Flip Empty
06-22-2013, 10:00 PM
We did what we did with a fullback who can be replaced for pennies. Don't waste a nickle on Leach.
If he could be replaced with pennies, the Giants wouldn't be pursuing Leach. It's hardly a waste when you're paying for the best.

giantsfan420
06-22-2013, 10:03 PM
well, lets not forget the history of the fbs on our team recently. j.finn was a solid FB, he got hurt, we went after Hedge****. His first season or two with us he was one of the best FBs in the game. he got hurt, we went after Hynoski. He got hurt...so now what? and if the giants are going to make a final type offer, i think that initself is proof enough the giants are worried about hynos knee.
u dont go "he should be back by week 1" and then try to sign an All Pro FB a week or two later unless there actually is some serious doubt/concern.

to be brutally honest, I'm a fan of Hyno and wish him a healthy speedy recovery and to return to form, but, hynoski or leach i could really give a damn as long as he is playing well and getting the job done.

RoanokeFan
06-22-2013, 10:07 PM
No interest, use the money on the OL. Leach is good but not a an idispensable position.

I have to agree

Flip Empty
06-22-2013, 10:11 PM
u dont go "he should be back by week 1" and then try to sign an All Pro FB a week or two later unless there actually is some serious doubt/concern.
I agree there. The instant he got hurt I assumed he'd be at least be PUP to start the season, but given the Giants' level of interest in Leach, he could be an IR candidate.

Captain Chaos
06-23-2013, 10:30 AM
Not having a full time FB would force Gilbride to become a little more creative...That may be bridge to far, I can see why they are pursuing Leach.

moosedrool
06-23-2013, 10:40 AM
With the loss of Bennett at TE and now Hynoski's injury, the Giants weak run game has the potential to be awful. I hope they sign Leach. He was the #1 rated FB on PFF by a wide margin last year. A dominating run blocker.

Delicreep
06-23-2013, 10:55 AM
In have a hard time making any sense of this.

The closest I get is that a relatively unimproved OL, and what that means to our run game, might benefit from a top FB.

jomo
06-23-2013, 11:29 AM
In have a hard time making any sense of this.

The closest I get is that a relatively unimproved OL, and what that means to our run game, might benefit from a top FB..............or more directly to the problem, we might benefit from an upgrade on the OL. :)

Flip Empty
06-23-2013, 11:42 AM
.............or more directly to the problem, we might benefit from an upgrade on the OL. :)
Sure, but how exactly are they going to upgrade the o-line with what little cap space they have?

JesseJames
06-23-2013, 11:58 AM
I think it was wishful thinking for us to expect Hyno to come back at full strength this season so it makes good sense to me for the team to go after Leach with a one year offer and if Reese can pull this off our run game won't miss a beat and next year Hyno will be full go...

FishinTheSalt
06-23-2013, 12:48 PM
I think it was wishful thinking for us to expect Hyno to come back at full strength this season so it makes good sense to me for the team to go after Leach with a one year offer and if Reese can pull this off our run game won't miss a beat and next year Hyno will be full go...

I'm starting to change my initial thinking about this, especially since the giants are considering upping their offer. Clearly the organization doesn't feel as optimistic about Hyno's recovery as he does. You can work hard at rehabbing but you can't will yourself back from a knee injury.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/23/giants-consider-upping-their-offer-to-vonta-leach/

jomo
06-23-2013, 01:10 PM
Sure, but how exactly are they going to upgrade the o-line with what little cap space they have?.......I'd just save the money (which will be at least $1M) and either build depth along the OL with it or bank it in case of injury. To just use it on a relatively inconsequential position in today's NFL seem like the wrong direction.

moosedrool
06-23-2013, 01:13 PM
.......I'd just save the money (which will be at least $1M) and either build depth along the OL with it or bank it in case of injury. To just use it on a relatively inconsequential position in today's NFL seem like the wrong direction.Leach is an elite FB, the best blocking fullback by a wide margin. Building depth on the OL is just adding another mediocre player to the team. No impact. Leach will make an impact.

Flip Empty
06-23-2013, 01:16 PM
.......I'd just save the money (which will be at least $1M) and either build depth along the OL with it or bank it in case of injury. To just use it on a relatively inconsequential position in today's NFL seem like the wrong direction.
Inconsequential? Given the weakness at OL and TE, the run game needs all the help it can get

moosedrool
06-23-2013, 01:22 PM
Inconsequential? Given the weakness at OL and TE, the run game needs all the help it can getMost FB's are inconsequential, so I can see why jomo said that. But Leach is not inconsequential. He blows up LB's.

DVision
06-23-2013, 01:23 PM
.............or more directly to the problem, we might benefit from an upgrade on the OL. :)

Just one question....who??? Pass up a quality player to pick up some bums for depth? That makes sense.

gmen0820
06-23-2013, 02:08 PM
Leach is a ****ing beast. I'd love to see him lead block for Wilson.

jomo
06-23-2013, 02:40 PM
Just one question....who??? Pass up a quality player to pick up some bums for depth? That makes sense.It makes alot of sense if you are banking the money to plan for injuries.Wherer was it said that we'd pick up "some bums"? If JR had flexibility to pick up an upgrade at a less than critical position, I suppose he would have done that by now.

jomo
06-23-2013, 02:41 PM
Leach is a ****ing beast. I'd love to see him lead block for Wilson.Can we convert him to OL?

gmen0820
06-23-2013, 03:25 PM
Can we convert him to OL?What free agent OL do you want?

jomo
06-23-2013, 03:35 PM
What free agent OL do you want?Well I'm not JR and I am certainly not that type of geek who knows everyone out there. What I do know is if we have guys like Leach available at FB and Abraham at DE and Bradshaw just signed at RB, it is hard for me to believe we can't find upgrades over guys like Brewer and Capers etc. Depth along the OL imo is much more important than upgrading a position like FB where you can always make due. At OL, everything comes unglued if you have a couple of injuries to starters and our depth is frighteningly bad again. Starters aren't so hot either.

gmen0820
06-23-2013, 03:44 PM
Well I'm not JR and I am certainly not that type of geek who knows everyone out there. What I do know is if we have guys like Leach available at FB and Abraham at DE and Bradshaw just signed at RB, it is hard for me to believe we can't find upgrades over guys like Brewer and Capers etc. Depth along the OL imo is much more important than upgrading a position like FB where you can always make due. At OL, everything comes unglued if you have a couple of injuries to starters and our depth is frighteningly bad again. Starters aren't so hot either.So in other words, you'd rather stockpile a bunch of backup quality offensive lineman (much like what we already have), than sign an elite FB who will actually make an impact? There's one offensive lineman out there maybe worth considering, and it's Eric Winston at RT. But between Pugh, Diehl, and the contract we'd have to give him, it doesn't seem worth it.

jomo
06-23-2013, 04:01 PM
So in other words, you'd rather stockpile a bunch of backup quality offensive lineman (much like what we already have), than sign an elite FB who will actually make an impact? There's one offensive lineman out there maybe worth considering, and it's Eric Winston at RT. But between Pugh, Diehl, and the contract we'd have to give him, it doesn't seem worth it.No, those are your words not mine. I said we don't have a bunch of quality backup offensive linemen and our priority should be improvement there. Our backups are so weak that improvement should be relatively easy and cheap. A top FB is a luxury we have won 2 Super Bowls without. I'd be happy to have him but the money won't allow that in addition to bolstering our worst and more critical unit, the OL.

If you think our OL is good and depth is acceptable such that we can burn every last cap dollar available on a FB then I understand where you are coming from. I just think our OL is below average, aging with several players returning from surgery. I further think that the quality of our depth is poor and I don't think you win a SB without being strong in the trenches. A FB imo doesn't change any of that for us. Heck we don't even play our FB all that often.

moosedrool
06-23-2013, 04:15 PM
No, those are your words not mine. I said we don't have a bunch of quality backup offensive linemen and our priority should be improvement there. Our backups are so weak that improvement should be relatively easy and cheap. A top FB is a luxury we have won 2 Super Bowls without. I'd be happy to have him but the money won't allow that in addition to bolstering our worst and more critical unit, the OL.

If you think our OL is good and depth is acceptable such that we can burn every last cap dollar available on a FB then I understand where you are coming from. I just think our OL is below average, aging with several players returning from surgery. I further think that the quality of our depth is poor and I don't think you win a SB without being strong in the trenches. A FB imo doesn't change any of that for us. Heck we don't even play our FB all that often.I agree our backup OL is weak,and our starting unit is mediocre. But Leach is a difference maker. Just look how Ray Rice's stats improved the last two years and Arian Foster's dropped the last two years.

moosedrool
06-23-2013, 04:21 PM
Vonta Leach Pancakes Patrick Willis [HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7I5A05f8T8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7I5A05f8T8

giantsfan420
06-23-2013, 04:26 PM
heres how i see it. Leach is a small upgrade over hyno even, for this yr. (depending on hynos recovery, if its full) hyno would get the nod from then on imo bc he'd be entering his prime theoretically while Leach would be exiting his.

but, you have to remember, last yr, hyno was extremely pivotal to the run game. if he cant go, that is a huge loss for the run game it is. i know that week 1 was the timetable supposedly, but something smells fishy if we're trying to make a last ditch effort to get leach. whatever the case, the FO seems to be acting like they know they need a guy at the FB spot who can play at or better than hynos level bc of last yr and how pivotal he was on and off the field esp with guys like Wilson and Brown.

Leach wont cost that much despite the thinking he will. i believe we could afford him for a 2 yr deal, guarantee the first yr, let him compete with hyno next yr and then keep hyno and waive bye to leach (yes im implying if hynos healthy i make him compete knowing i keep hyno unless he just is nowhere near the same guy).

the OL was pretty brutal last yr, and therun game still had success with hyno. i dont know if the FO is placing more importance on the missing OL we may need to get, or the missing FB piece we KNOW we have to get. yes i agree, OL is more important in most instances...this particular case i dont know that it is

giant-4-life
06-23-2013, 04:31 PM
We are a team who always has a FB. If leach works out, when hynoski gets healthy, do we keep him?, let Leach go or.. do we keep leach and let hynoski go or do we keep both somehow?

I care not what most say.. a FB is part of our teams scheme.

jomo
06-23-2013, 04:35 PM
Vonta Leach Pancakes Patrick Willis [HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7I5A05f8T8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7I5A05f8T8 That is a very nice piece of football right there.

giant-4-life
06-23-2013, 04:36 PM
I think it was wishful thinking for us to expect Hyno to come back at full strength this season so it makes good sense to me for the team to go after Leach with a one year offer and if Reese can pull this off our run game won't miss a beat and next year Hyno will be full go...

I was thinking if hynoski doesn't make it back in a timely manner, Leach would be truly, our ONLY recourse that makes good sense. people want the OL beefed up yes, but we also need a able bodied FB to run block. make sense?

jomo
06-23-2013, 04:50 PM
I was thinking if hynoski doesn't make it back in a timely manner, Leach would be truly, our ONLY recourse that makes good sense. people want the OL beefed up yes, but we also need a able bodied FB to run block. make sense?I don't know the answers to these questions but someone out there must.

1. Of our total offensive plays how many have the FB on the field?

2. Of all our running plays how many have the FB on the field?

gmen0820
06-23-2013, 04:50 PM
No, those are your words not mine. I said we don't have a bunch of quality backup offensive linemen and our priority should be improvement there. Our backups are so weak that improvement should be relatively easy and cheap. You said (after admitting you didn't know who was available) that you find it "hard to believe we can't find upgrades over guys like Brewer and Capers," which you followed up by saying that depth was far more important. By extension, you're saying that our backups should be upgraded to give us depth. My question is: how is that not advocating to stockpile backup quality offensive lineman?


A top FB is a luxury we have won 2 Super Bowls without. I'd be happy to have him but the money won't allow that in addition to bolstering our worst and more critical unit, the OL.We also won the last SB with a terrible OL, but you don't seem to view that as a luxury. Are LBers a luxury, too? And since you brought up the finances, how cheap do you think it is to get multiple minimum-contracted offensive lineman?


If you think our OL is good and depth is acceptable such that we can burn every last cap dollar available on a FB then I understand where you are coming from.I wouldn't call it "burning up every last cap dollar," because that makes it seem like we're just pissing the money away. But I like how you bring that up, because I would say getting more crappy offensive lineman for "depth reasons" would be far more wasteful.


I just think our OL is below average, aging with several players returning from surgery. I further think that the quality of our depth is poor and I don't think you win a SB without being strong in the trenches. A FB imo doesn't change any of that for us. Heck we don't even play our FB all that often.And we don't play our backup offensive lineman that often either. I understand you want depth, and that it'd be smart to bolster our depth, but you're overlooking the fact that there simply aren't quality offensive lineman out there that are willing to sign for minimum contracts.

jomo
06-23-2013, 05:08 PM
lol, Excedrin please!!

I'll respond to your first item and leave the rest for someone with nothing else to do today.

Here is what you said in your own words.

http://boards.giants.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by gmen0820http://boards.giants.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?p=790311#post790311)So in other words, you'd rather stockpile a bunch of backup quality offensive lineman (much like what we already have), than sign an elite FB who will actually make an impact? There's one offensive lineman out there maybe worth considering, and it's Eric Winston at RT. But between Pugh, Diehl, and the contract we'd have to give him, it doesn't seem worth it.

*******************************************

My point is that I disagree with your premise that we already have quality backups on the OL and that finding them is of much great importance than using scarce dollars on a FB of any quality. Did I misread you or did you not say that we already have quality backk-up offensive linemen?

gmen0820
06-23-2013, 05:11 PM
Did I misread you or did you not say that we have quality backk-up offensive linemen?Yes, you misread me. I don't think we have quality backups, I think we have enough backup-quality offensive lineman.

jomo
06-23-2013, 05:36 PM
Yes, you misread me. I don't think we have quality backups, I think we have enough backup-quality offensive lineman.Ah, a little wiggle on words could take that one either way but I do see the nuance you are driving for. I guess I disagree with phrasing it this way as well. I do not consider Brewer, Capers or the others "back-up quality." I consider them unready to enter an NFL game and hold their own which for me is unacceptable. Backup quality for me is set at a higher bar.

Drez
06-23-2013, 05:55 PM
I don't know the answers to these questions but someone out there must.

1. Of our total offensive plays how many have the FB on the field?

2. Of all our running plays how many have the FB on the field?We have the FB in a lot. I don't have the exact numbers, but I'd venture to say there are very few teams that use the FB more than us.

jomo
06-23-2013, 05:59 PM
We have the FB in a lot. I don't have the exact numbers, but I'd venture to say there are very few teams that use the FB more than us.Thanks Drez, means we need to have that one accounted for in some way. I don't recall Hyno being involved in pass protection much last year. The discussion was always around BB being such a tough nut back there defending Eli and Wilson not being ready for it.

giantsfan420
06-23-2013, 06:01 PM
I don't know the answers to these questions but someone out there must.

1. Of our total offensive plays how many have the FB on the field?

2. Of all our running plays how many have the FB on the field?well, i cant answer those, but I know that of all our rushing TD's(edit-18iirc), Hyno was lead blocking. And that when Hyno was in, our Yards Per Carry were much higher. i'd guess a FB is on the field for us anywhere from 20-30% of the time, and of our running plays, prob 80% have a FB. Actually, we do throw out of the two WR two HB (1FB/1HB) look so maybe even 30%-40% of some games Hynos on the field...again a guess on those two questions

giantsfan420
06-23-2013, 06:02 PM
Thanks Drez, means we need to have that one accounted for in some way. I don't recall Hyno being involved in pass protection much last year. The discussion was always around BB being such a tough nut back there defending Eli and Wilson not being ready for it.remember when Brdshaw was really banged up? Hyno became our 3rd down back some games lol we actually even ran the 3rd down shotgun draw to him a few times but by in large he pass protected when we used him there which we had to a couple games

giantsfan420
06-23-2013, 06:08 PM
to add in response to jomos questions, the FB isnt on the field as much as an OL but no player is aside from the QB really. Maybe the TE? Now I get that in terms of the peking order, the FB sees the field less than the WRs and RBs, prob least of all the positions.

BUT, that said, when he is in, his level of play is paramount to our offensive success. we cant just plug in a rookie FA FB and expect near the same level of run game (IMO depending on the guy unless a gem like Hyno becomes available for min.). While the FB was in the least compared to the other positions, we depended on him as much while he was in if not more than the skill positions. Hynos ability to lead block and be a viable pass catcher was so huge in our base big sets...

DVision
06-23-2013, 09:06 PM
It makes alot of sense if you are banking the money to plan for injuries.Wherer was it said that we'd pick up "some bums"? If JR had flexibility to pick up an upgrade at a less than critical position, I suppose he would have done that by now.

Ok so our backups suck but let's hold out hope someone cut from another team will be a quality player? If JR felt things were rosy at the FB position I suppose he wouldn't even be considering upping his offer. How do you know how good the new additions (rookies and FA) will perform or how much the backup players have improved anyway?

Flip Empty
06-23-2013, 09:09 PM
I don't know the answers to these questions but someone out there must.

1. Of our total offensive plays how many have the FB on the field?

2. Of all our running plays how many have the FB on the field?

I don't know the answer to your second question, but Hynoski was in on 422 offensive plays last season. That's 41% of them.

giantsfan420
06-23-2013, 09:48 PM
I don't know the answer to your second question, but Hynoski was in on 422 offensive plays last season. That's 41% of them.wow. when i put 30-40% i thought that it might be a lil too much turns out wasnt quite enough. man he is really crucial to the run game

jomo
06-23-2013, 11:28 PM
wow. when i put 30-40% i thought that it might be a lil too much turns out wasnt quite enough. man he is really crucial to the run game???The amount of time he's on the field doesn't make him crucial to the ground game. It is the quality of his impact or lack there of that makes the difference.

IMO he is a good one, not a great one and I am comfortable with paying for good when it comes to FB.

ELI_Iz_God
06-23-2013, 11:32 PM
Ok so our backups suck but let's hold out hope someone cut from another team will be a quality player? If JR felt things were rosy at the FB position I suppose he wouldn't even be considering upping his offer. How do you know how good the new additions (rookies and FA) will perform or how much the backup players have improved anyway?


Exactly...people who are always preaching "Trust the Coaches & Staff" "Believe in JR" easily flip flop to the other side the moment something is in the works that they don't agree with...pffft People are too fickeled these days.....Pick A Principle and stand by it...or don't have any at all

Flip Empty
06-24-2013, 12:21 AM
???The amount of time he's on the field doesn't make him crucial to the ground game. It is the quality of his impact or lack there of that makes the difference.

IMO he is a good one, not a great one and I am comfortable with paying for good when it comes to FB.
From PFF (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/06/03/secret-superstar-henry-hynoski/):

The Giants scored 18 rushing touchdowns last year; Hynoski was the lead blocker on 15 of them.

Over two seasons Hynoski has conceded only one quarterback pressure from 94 pass-blocking snaps.


He seems pretty crucial.

The simple fact that the Giants are pursuing Leach should give you an idea of how highly they value the fullback position.

WayBackFan
06-24-2013, 07:45 AM
Leach would be a great addition. Hopefully the G will loosen the purse strings and sign him.

This is potentially a huge deal for the team's success this coming season.

Carter.525
06-24-2013, 08:10 AM
Leach would be a great addition. Hopefully the G will loosen the purse strings and sign him.

This is potentially a huge deal for the team's success this coming season.

sure, but what do you do when Hynoski returns? a double FB set?

Flip Empty
06-24-2013, 08:55 AM
sure, but what do you do when Hynoski returns? a double FB set?
IR him, just like they did with Cruz.

giantscolombia
06-24-2013, 09:49 AM
This actually freaks me out. Is the Hyno injury that severe? is there something they are not telling us?

I really don't believe that we are going to up the offer on this Leach guy for the fun of having two awesome full backs. I think something is more serious is lurking behind the curtain. I mean Hyno was supposed to be back by week 1. What happened with that?

Last we heard, his injury was a bruised knee.

Flip Empty
06-24-2013, 09:54 AM
Last we heard, his injury was a bruised knee.
Torn MCL and a chipped tibia. He had surgery about a month ago.

Gimaniac
06-24-2013, 09:57 AM
This actually freaks me out. Is the Hyno injury that severe? is there something they are not telling us?


I'm thinking yes. How do you come back full strength from major knee surgery that quickly?

"unspecified injury to his left MCL and a chip fracture to the later plateau in his knee"

Providence
06-24-2013, 09:57 AM
Seems like Hynoski's injury/recovery time is not as good as initially speculated.

We need a strong full back that knows how to block. Right now, with options limited, Leach is that opportunity.

I think being aggressive in our pursuit of him is a smart move. When Hynoski comes back he goes on IR (unless for some reason Leach isn't working out).

Sorry Hynocerous, I love ya', but if there were optimism/confidence in your situation Leach wouldn't even be part of the discussion.

giantscolombia
06-24-2013, 10:05 AM
Torn MCL and a chipped tibia. He had surgery about a month ago.
Dang! I didnt know it was that bad. Honestly, all I heard and maybe all I wanted to hear was that he had just bruised his leg...

giantscolombia
06-24-2013, 10:06 AM
I'm thinking yes. How do you come back full strength from major knee surgery that quickly?

"unspecified injury to his left MCL and a chip fracture to the later plateau in his knee"



That's what I thought! I mean EVERY knee injury is usually pretty severe, especially when there is no contact. In my mind, expecting him to be back by week 1 was unrealistic but I didnt want to believe it was severe.

Toadofsteel
06-24-2013, 11:20 AM
Hynoski is most likely going to sit the season if we do get leach. Hes definitely more hurt than hes letting on. Sure the fo would at least look at leach even if hyno was healthy, that's just due diligence. But from what I'm reading about the increased offer, it seems as though the optimistic time table for hyno's return would be week 6 PUP...

WayBackFan
06-24-2013, 12:20 PM
Hynoski is valuable. If the G sign Leach then Hyno can take his time and rehab that knee properly without hurry.

Contrast this approach with the Redskins rushing RG3 back too soon and he will be hobbling around by game 3.

giantscolombia
06-24-2013, 12:28 PM
Hynoski is valuable. If the G sign Leach then Hyno can take his time and rehab that knee properly without hurry.

Contrast this approach with the Redskins rushing RG3 back too soon and he will be hobbling around by game 3.

That's true, I would rather get Leach and let Hyno just chill for as long as he needs to. He is still pretty young in comparison to Leach.

I just hope we dont over indulge...

MattMeyerBud
06-24-2013, 01:18 PM
In have a hard time making any sense of this.

The closest I get is that a relatively unimproved OL, and what that means to our run game, might benefit from a top FB.

that and we have a game breaker in Wilson. Having somebody ahead of him would really do wonders for us.

Bear is a good band aid, not full 16 starter. PLUS, lets keep in mind that this guy can carry and catch the ball

MattMeyerBud
06-24-2013, 01:19 PM
Sure, but how exactly are they going to upgrade the o-line with what little cap space they have?

I agree i'd rather spend the money on a starting fullback than a backup OLine

MattMeyerBud
06-24-2013, 01:19 PM
.......I'd just save the money (which will be at least $1M) and either build depth along the OL with it or bank it in case of injury. To just use it on a relatively inconsequential position in today's NFL seem like the wrong direction.

regardless if the position is inconsequential in the NFL as a whole, it is a big part of our offense

MattMeyerBud
06-24-2013, 01:20 PM
It makes alot of sense if you are banking the money to plan for injuries.Wherer was it said that we'd pick up "some bums"? If JR had flexibility to pick up an upgrade at a less than critical position, I suppose he would have done that by now.

That would make sense if we would be signing him BECAUSE of an injury. And especially because we really don't have anybody else there to play it. Somebody goes down on the line we can move people around and still get by

MattMeyerBud
06-24-2013, 01:21 PM
Can we convert him to OL?

why? So he could block for our RB?

MattMeyerBud
06-24-2013, 01:22 PM
heres how i see it. Leach is a small upgrade over hyno even, for this yr. (depending on hynos recovery, if its full) hyno would get the nod from then on imo bc he'd be entering his prime theoretically while Leach would be exiting his.

but, you have to remember, last yr, hyno was extremely pivotal to the run game. if he cant go, that is a huge loss for the run game it is. i know that week 1 was the timetable supposedly, but something smells fishy if we're trying to make a last ditch effort to get leach. whatever the case, the FO seems to be acting like they know they need a guy at the FB spot who can play at or better than hynos level bc of last yr and how pivotal he was on and off the field esp with guys like Wilson and Brown.

Leach wont cost that much despite the thinking he will. i believe we could afford him for a 2 yr deal, guarantee the first yr, let him compete with hyno next yr and then keep hyno and waive bye to leach (yes im implying if hynos healthy i make him compete knowing i keep hyno unless he just is nowhere near the same guy).

the OL was pretty brutal last yr, and therun game still had success with hyno. i dont know if the FO is placing more importance on the missing OL we may need to get, or the missing FB piece we KNOW we have to get. yes i agree, OL is more important in most instances...this particular case i dont know that it is

Leach is not only the best blocking back in football, hes the best overall fb in football

MattMeyerBud
06-24-2013, 01:24 PM
Thanks Drez, means we need to have that one accounted for in some way. I don't recall Hyno being involved in pass protection much last year. The discussion was always around BB being such a tough nut back there defending Eli and Wilson not being ready for it.

you also didn't have to have him in there that much with bradshaw.

Toadofsteel
06-24-2013, 01:39 PM
sure, but what do you do when Hynoski returns? a double FB set?

how about a set lining up hyno, leach, robinson, and pascoe all to one side, brown taking a direct snap. It would be like in the 80s on goal line situations: "we're going to run it here, just try to stop us".

gmen0820
06-24-2013, 01:44 PM
how about a set lining up hyno, leach, robinson, and pascoe all to one side, brown taking a direct snap. It would be like in the 80s on goal line situations: "we're going to run it here, just try to stop us".Hell, even 2008 mirrored that somewhat.

giantsfan420
06-24-2013, 02:48 PM
???The amount of time he's on the field doesn't make him crucial to the ground game. It is the quality of his impact or lack there of that makes the difference.

IMO he is a good one, not a great one and I am comfortable with paying for good when it comes to FB.huh? he's on the field 40% of the time, almost the exact % we run the ball...

we can throw out of the TWO WR I Formation set bc of our talent at the skill position and bc Hyno can become a viable option in the flats. Remember how effective he was vs NE in SB 46? And when we run out of the I, he has been a tremendous lead blocker. He has the ability to even line up as the Shotgun RB. We had to use him there a couple games last season with the Bradshaw issues and lack of trust in DW to protect Eli.

But he was absolutely crucial to our run game. We avg'd more YPC when he was in, and 15 of our 18 rushing TDs, Hyno was lead blocking (I had mistakingly claimed it was all 18 earlier, sorry for the error). I'd say he's absolutely crucial to the run game and if we are gonna miss him for an extended period of time, I agree with the FO in looking to get Leach.

Eli TO Shockey
06-24-2013, 04:49 PM
Well there goes desmond bishop. Do we have the funds to pay vonta 2 mil? if not, hes going to go back to baltimore.

jomo
06-24-2013, 04:55 PM
huh? he's on the field 40% of the time, almost the exact % we run the ball...

we can throw out of the TWO WR I Formation set bc of our talent at the skill position and bc Hyno can become a viable option in the flats. Remember how effective he was vs NE in SB 46? And when we run out of the I, he has been a tremendous lead blocker. He has the ability to even line up as the Shotgun RB. We had to use him there a couple games last season with the Bradshaw issues and lack of trust in DW to protect Eli.

But he was absolutely crucial to our run game. We avg'd more YPC when he was in, and 15 of our 18 rushing TDs, Hyno was lead blocking (I had mistakingly claimed it was all 18 earlier, sorry for the error). I'd say he's absolutely crucial to the run game and if we are gonna miss him for an extended period of time, I agree with the FO in looking to get Leach.David Diehl (or his replacement) is also on the field 40% of the time, does that make them indispensible? I think you are missing the cause and effect and giving him too much credit for showing up. I suggest you watch those game tapes.