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View Full Version : Justin Tuck: Defense Has To Carry Giants



RoanokeFan
06-25-2013, 09:47 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/tuck_key_for_blue_9h5lN0blizyAObW

Excerpt: "Justin Tuck has a vision of what he wants the Giants defense to be and that image does not include again being a pop gun in the shadow of Eli Manning’s high-octane offensive attack.

“I hope the defense can carry this team,’’ Tuck said yesterday at the Big Daddy Celebrity Golf Classic at Oheka Castle in Huntington, L.I. “We have to think like we’re going to carry the team and that might be something we’ve lacked, because our offense is so good, thinking we can kind of give up this and that.

“That has to kind of get away from us this year and approach the game in a way that those ’80s teams did with LT [Lawrence Taylor] and Harry [Carson] and all those guys. They went into the game trying to kill the offense and not give ’em anything. We have to get back to that on defense.’’

For the Giants to take a page from the past and return to defensive dominance, Tuck is going to have to rekindle his past excellence. Tuck is entering his ninth season with the Giants and, for the first time in his career, is entering a season in the final year of his contract. There are clearly high stakes ahead for Tuck, yet he sounds as if he’s feeling no pressure.

“I think for whatever reason I feel more alive in a football sense than I have in a long time,’’ he said. “That’s a huge motivation for me this year.’’

Asked what he meant by feeling “more alive in a football sense,’’ Tuck explained: “It just means I’m in a great place. Football is a draining sport sometimes and being in New York City and trying to do as much as I do off the football field, it kind of drains you a little bit. You start to look at things for granted. Maybe I did.

“My focus is football, I’m trying my best to have it family and football, that’s it. You won’t see me out as much as I’ve been in previous years, you won’t see me doing a lot of stuff I’ve done. I’ve kind of dedicated myself to doing a lot of it this offseason. When football comes, that’s where I’m at.’’ Read more...

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 09:50 AM
Oh no! More talking! Here come 10 pages of Tuck bashing. They do need to be better but not sure if they have all the players they need to carry the team.

RoanokeFan
06-25-2013, 09:50 AM
Oh no! More talking! Here come 10 pages of Tuck bashing. They do need to be better but not sure if they have all the players they need to carry the team.

Let's be optimistic

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 09:54 AM
Always have a chance to be better, but losing KP is a bigger deal than people want to believe. They where much better with him playing than not. Think the secondary is very thin and not sure if they will generate enough pressure to help. They will need Tuck to play better for this unit to be any good.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 09:56 AM
I'm so glad that we don't have to score 40+ a game now. Tuck knows the defense has to play better and the offense can't win it alone. Atta boy Tuck.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:02 AM
You do realize that last year the offense scored 20 or fewer points in all 7 losses and in 1 win the score included a TD by JPP.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:03 AM
You do realize that last year the offense scored 20 or fewer points in all 7 losses and in 1 win the score included a TD by JPP.Yes, but Tuck realizes they can't rely on the offense to score, tackle, get 3 and outs, etc.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:05 AM
You are implying they needed the offense to score 40 points to win and that is simply not true. He also realizes the offense needs to not go 3 and out and put more than 20 points on he board.

Moke
06-25-2013, 10:06 AM
What makes this year different than last year? The offense is going to carry the season, I can guarantee it.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:07 AM
You are implying they needed the offense to score 40 points to win and that is simply not true. He also realizes the offense needs to not go 3 and out and put more than 20 points on he board.No, I'm saying for this season.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:07 AM
What makes this year different than last year? The offense is going to carry the season, I can guarantee it.Unfortunately.

GameTime
06-25-2013, 10:25 AM
Tuck's basic point is that the defense needs more fire and passion from their players.
Makes sense and its not a bad thing to be talking about. Attitude is a domino effect on a team sport so hopefully the defense can
stay hungry all season and play like their hair is on fire......

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:27 AM
The offense carried them last year? Really?

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:27 AM
The offense carried them last year? Really?I never said that.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:28 AM
I never said that.Never said you did. You did agree though.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:30 AM
Never said you did. You did agree though.I said the defense shouldn't rely on the offense. I never said the offense carried them.

Moke
06-25-2013, 10:32 AM
The offense carried them last year? Really?

Yeah they did, now stfu

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:32 AM
So responding "unfortunately" to a post that said the offense will carry the team like they did last year wasn't an agreement?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:32 AM
How did they carry them last year?

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:33 AM
So responding "unfortunately" to a post that said the offense will carry the team like they did last year wasn't an agreement?Because the way our defense looks now...the offense might have to carry them. Maybe not from last year since the offense was bad, but 2011.

Moke
06-25-2013, 10:34 AM
How did they carry them last year?

I've found you an annoying poster, so I really don't have to explain myself to you at all. Just look back a few games of last season and you'll know.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:35 AM
No doubt 2011 was on the offense until they hit he post season. Not to say they where bad in the post season but the defense was also amazing.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:36 AM
No doubt 2011 was on the offense until they hit he post season. Not to say they where bad in the post season but the defense was also amazing.Cool. Still don't want to see one side relying on the other.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:37 AM
Looked at last season and saw a very inconsistent team both on offense and defense. In 7 losses the offense failed to score more than 20 points. In 1 win the defense scored a TD and forced numerous TO's which helped them win. There where one or two games the offense bailed out the defense last year.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:38 AM
Cool. Still don't want to see one side relying on the other.Absolutely. By they way, the offense probably will have to carry the team this year. Seriously.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:39 AM
Absolutely. By they way, the offense probably will have to carry the team this year. Seriously.Bad.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:42 AM
Maybe Webster bounces back? Maybe Tuck does too? Maybe the LB's will play better than expected? It's not like it can't happen. Just think the defense has more work to do than the offense.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:45 AM
Maybe Webster bounces back? Maybe Tuck does too? Maybe the LB's will play better than expected? It's not like it can't happen. Just think the defense has more work to do than the offense.There's too many maybe's. Oh well, they can't be worse than last year.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:48 AM
There's too many maybe's. Oh well, they can't be worse than last year.Yes they can. Sorry.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 10:55 AM
Yes they can. Sorry.I don't think so. Unless Tuck doesn't keep his word, and Corey Webster doesn't improve.

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 10:58 AM
the offense did carry the D last yr. The D couldn't get off the field for their lives. we had the fewest offensive possessions of any team except 1. D was absolutely putrid, which is why you have guys like Tuck and other leaders specifically saying "we kinda knew the offense would do this or that, so we werent as focused or motivated and we have to do our parts this year." thats been a current theme from the defensive players, and rightfully so.

i for one am pleased to hear Tuck say he's not gonna be doing some of the things he was doing during the football season. to be honest, i dunno why the hell he thought he could be like that, but its good he is willing to make football his top and only focus outside his family. forget the subway commercials and charity events for 6-9 months.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 10:58 AM
They can allow more points. Know this has been a hot topic to debate but they where tied for 12th in the league for points scored against.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 11:02 AM
Like I said, if Tuck doesn't keep his word, and the middle of the field is wide open, and Corey Webster is getting burned for 50 yarders, I don't want the injury bug excuse, or the yeah but the offense had that one drive where they couldn't convert. This defense HAS to be better in order for this team to be successful. They were one of the main reasons we won the Super Bowl.

Moke
06-25-2013, 11:03 AM
Buddy is full of maybes mayn.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 11:03 AM
Been saying it, this team, both offense and defense are consistent at one thing. Playing inconsistent.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 11:03 AM
the offense did carry the D last yr. The D couldn't get off the field for their lives. we had the fewest offensive possessions of any team except 1. D was absolutely putrid, which is why you have guys like Tuck and other leaders specifically saying "we kinda knew the offense would do this or that, so we werent as focused or motivated and we have to do our parts this year." thats been a current theme from the defensive players, and rightfully so.i for one am pleased to hear Tuck say he's not gonna be doing some of the things he was doing during the football season. to be honest, i dunno why the hell he thought he could be like that, but its good he is willing to make football his top and only focus outside his family. forget the subway commercials and charity events for 6-9 months.I wouldn't say carry, because the offense wasn't good either. I would say the defense relied too much on the offense like they did in 2011.

Moke
06-25-2013, 11:04 AM
NY GIANTS GIRL <3

Morehead State
06-25-2013, 11:05 AM
the offense did carry the D last yr. The D couldn't get off the field for their lives. we had the fewest offensive possessions of any team except 1. D was absolutely putrid, which is why you have guys like Tuck and other leaders specifically saying "we kinda knew the offense would do this or that, so we werent as focused or motivated and we have to do our parts this year." thats been a current theme from the defensive players, and rightfully so.

i for one am pleased to hear Tuck say he's not gonna be doing some of the things he was doing during the football season. to be honest, i dunno why the hell he thought he could be like that, but its good he is willing to make football his top and only focus outside his family. forget the subway commercials and charity events for 6-9 months.

Both the offense and defense were equally mediocre last year.
The offense had a bad stretch in the middle of the season where they won 3 straight games. (SF, Wash. and Dallas)

Moke
06-25-2013, 11:05 AM
What about that Tampa game? That was pure offensive power.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 11:13 AM
That's one game where as good as he was in the second half Eli was that bad in the first. He threw 3 interceptions including a pick 6 in the first half. The other two set Tampa up deep on the Giants side of the field.

nhpgiantsfan
06-25-2013, 11:17 AM
Severe lack of talent on defense. If we make the playoffs it's pretty safe to say that it will be because of all of the playmakers that we have on offense.

It's a big if to say that Tuck and Webster will revert to the stars that they once were. LB's are a crapshoot. Secondary is average at best with one really good CB, and our best DL just had back surgery..

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 11:21 AM
Tuck was not bad against the run last year so if he can just pick up the pressures that will go a long way. As for the run defense, hopefully the moves they made at DT will pay off. Maybe Moore will have to play sooner than they would like and hopefully he is the real deal. If that DL gets pressure anything is possible. One thing about all the one year deals they have on this team is that it could make guys hungry to get a by pay day next year. So maybe that will help them as well

giantscolombia
06-25-2013, 11:48 AM
I don't think so. Unless Tuck doesn't keep his word, and Corey Webster doesn't improve.
Do you actually think Corey is going to improve? I mean the only thing he has for certain is that his age keeps going up.
and that doesnt really help from a football stand point.

I think CWeb gets abused once again this year. Truthfully, i can see him hitting the bench for Ross...

OMG that's a scary thought.

giantscolombia
06-25-2013, 11:50 AM
Severe lack of talent on defense AND TERRIBLE COACHING. If we make the playoffs it's pretty safe to say that it will be because of all of the playmakers that we have on offense.

It's a big IF to say that Tuck and Webster will revert to the stars that they once were. LB's are a crapshoot. Secondary is average at best with one really good CB, and our best DL just had back surgery..

I agree with this completely!
This pretty much sums it up!

giantscolombia
06-25-2013, 11:52 AM
What about that Tampa game? That was pure offensive power.
Yes! it was but one can argue they were going against a "crappy" defense.

It was unreal to see two different football teams that one game. 1st half was just sad then the Giants showed up to play and burned the Bucs BAD!

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 11:55 AM
Do you actually think Corey is going to improve? I mean the only thing he has for certain is that his age keeps going up. and that doesnt really help from a football stand point.I think CWeb gets abused once again this year. Truthfully, i can see him hitting the bench for Ross...OMG that's a scary thought.We kept him for a reason, right? Everyone was saying he was injured, give him another chance. OK. People said Tuck was hurt, give him a chance..OK. The Giants kept these guys because they felt they could comeback. With that being said, I don't expect this defense to give up 384 yards a game.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 11:57 AM
And trust me when I say this, if the defense performs like last year or worse, you won't hear the end of me. Just a warning lol.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 11:58 AM
We kept him for a reason, right? Everyone was saying he was injured, give him another chance. OK. People said Tuck was hurt, give him a chance..OK. The Giants kept these guys because they felt they could comeback. With that being said, I don't expect this defense to give up 384 yards a game.If they had allowed 50 yards less a game would they be that much better?

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 12:01 PM
If they had allowed 50 yards less a game would they be that much better?No. 334 yards PER GAME is still high.

BigBlue1971
06-25-2013, 12:03 PM
Tucks comments admits the Giants defense took last year off. ive always thought that.

coming off a super bowl victory in 2011 they didn't take many games seriously thereby missing the playoffs.

I hope Tuck does well but him coming off last years "not playing well" hes gotta show it on the field and its almost time!

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 12:04 PM
No. 334 yards PER GAME is still high.Well that was the #10 defense last year. It would be nice to see them make more stops, of course, but they where not that bad all year long. They did stop some very high power offenses and kept games close in a number of other games. This season is a different story tough. They are starting a little older and missing some key players from last year.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 12:04 PM
Tucks comments admits the Giants defense took last year off. ive always thought that.coming off a super bowl victory in 2011 they didn't take many games seriously thereby missing the playoffs.I hope Tuck does well but him coming off last years "not playing well" hes gotta show it on the field and its almost time!They sure did take a year off, you can tell.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 12:05 PM
Well that was the #10 defense last year. It would be nice to see them make more stops, of course, but they where not that bad all year long. They did stop some very high power offenses and kept games close in a number of other games. This season is a different story tough. They are starting a little older and missing some key players from last year.It would be okay if our team wasn't inconsistent however. Despite stopping a few high powered offenses, they still managed to be the 31st ranked D.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 12:06 PM
Tucks comments admits the Giants defense took last year off. ive always thought that.coming off a super bowl victory in 2011 they didn't take many games seriously thereby missing the playoffs.I hope Tuck does well but him coming off last years "not playing well" hes gotta show it on the field and its almost time!Eh, don't think they took the year off. Think was the same old team they have been for quite some time. Very inconsistent on both sides of the ball and they had their annual second half collapse.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 12:07 PM
It would be okay if our team wasn't inconsistent however. Despite stopping a few high powered offenses, they still managed to be the 31st ranked D.Right, because of 50 yards a game.

giantscolombia
06-25-2013, 12:44 PM
We kept him for a reason, right? Everyone was saying he was injured, give him another chance. OK. People said Tuck was hurt, give him a chance..OK. The Giants kept these guys because they felt they could comeback. With that being said, I don't expect this defense to give up 384 yards a game.
You expect them to give up more?!??
:cool:

giantscolombia
06-25-2013, 12:45 PM
It would be okay if our team wasn't inconsistent however. Despite stopping a few high powered offenses, they still managed to be the 31st ranked D.
It seemed like they took some games off. That is why I think a lot of the blame needs to go on Fewell's back! How is it possible that we shut down powerful attacking offenses and then completely barf on whatever teams...

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 12:52 PM
It seemed like they took some games off. That is why I think a lot of the blame needs to go on Fewell's back! How is it possible that we shut down powerful attacking offenses and then completely barf on whatever teams...Bing bing bingo. That is what I've been sayinh for a couple years now, and not just about the defense, but as a team. It seems strange to think you have the leagues most inconsistent players for 9 years. That doesn't seem right. It's coaching.

gumby74
06-25-2013, 12:59 PM
Right, because of 50 yards a game. You know the difference between a RB rushing for 50 yards and 100 yards is ..... 50 yards right? I'd say that 50 yards could be very significant.

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 01:00 PM
the atl game and balt games, and the 2nd dallas game game, (someones trying to claim eli played poorly in the sf blowout. he was checking into runs bc the d was obviously hell bent on stopping the pass and the 2nd half we passed like 5x lol perfect example of FF number desire clouding judgement) those games, the D set the tone early. we didnt get any stops and fell behind by more than 1 score. w/o bradshaw, we were sitting ducks trying to pass with the d well aware. i actually believe the D was more at fault than the offense those games, but i realize thats prob a minority opinion.
The D put us in impossible situations to overcome those games. now, the Pitt game is an example where I felt the D did its job and the O shadt the bed but I cant really think of many more examples like that...the 2nd Dallas game? well, we were up big early. i can understand not going to the pass until dallas was mounting their comeback. Dallas also went out and fixed their D with our Offense the main focus.

offense didnt play to its highest levels but i def would not say they were bad. the had a bad 3 game streak, aside from that, the offense was top 10 across the board iirc. even with those 3 games i believe we were top 10 in pts scored, yards gained, etc etc etc...

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 01:04 PM
the atl game and balt games, and the 2nd dallas game game, (someones trying to claim eli played poorly in the sf blowout. he was checking into runs bc the d was obviously hell bent on stopping the pass and the 2nd half we passed like 5x lol perfect example of FF number desire clouding judgement) those games, the D set the tone early. we didnt get any stops and fell behind by more than 1 score. w/o bradshaw, we were sitting ducks trying to pass with the d well aware. i actually believe the D was more at fault than the offense those games, but i realize thats prob a minority opinion.
The D put us in impossible situations to overcome those games. now, the Pitt game is an example where I felt the D did its job and the O shadt the bed but I cant really think of many more examples like that...the 2nd Dallas game? well, we were up big early. i can understand not going to the pass until dallas was mounting their comeback. Dallas also went out and fixed their D with our Offense the main focus.

offense didnt play to its highest levels but i def would not say they were bad. the had a bad 3 game streak, aside from that, the offense was top 10 across the board iirc. even with those 3 games i believe we were top 10 in pts scored, yards gained, etc etc etc...Eh, on game tape they weren't good. They did score the highest points in Giants history, but it was in spots. The offense had big troubles scoring.

However, I would not put the majority of the blame on the offense.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 01:52 PM
You know the difference between a RB rushing for 50 yards and 100 yards is ..... 50 yards right? I'd say that 50 yards could be very significant.The key word being could. Absolutely it could. Then again, it could be one play at the end of a blow out.

gumby74
06-25-2013, 01:55 PM
The key word being could. Absolutely it could. Then again, it could be one play at the end of a blow out.

I'm sure if you look at other stats, the difference between good and bad actually pretty close. What' a few INTs here and there? Or Sacks? Or Fumbles? TDs. I'm not saying what you brought up is wrong, but if you take the absolute worst and compare it against the best, I don't think there's going to be a mind boggling difference.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 01:58 PM
The point is this team is inconsistent on both sides of the ball. For some reason the offense seems to get a pass based on stats. They failed to score more than 20 points in all their losses. One game had it not been for the defense creating g TO's and scoring a TD they would have lost. Their totals for the year where good but they where as up and down as the defense.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 02:18 PM
What kind of reverse universe is Tuck living in?

GameTime
06-25-2013, 02:30 PM
What kind of reverse universe is Tuck living in?
all he is saying is that he "wants" the defense to play like a dominant defense...
not that they have to dominate.....

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 02:45 PM
all he is saying is that he "wants" the defense to play like a dominant defense...
not that they have to dominate.....For the defense to carry the team, wouldn't that mean they'd have to be the top ranked unit on our team?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 02:50 PM
For the defense to carry the team, wouldn't that mean they'd have to be the top ranked unit on our team?So would it be better if he said that he hopes his unit p,as like a middle of the pack defense?

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 02:53 PM
So would it be better if he said that he hopes his unit p,as like a middle of the pack defense?Of course not. Why would anyone think that?

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 02:53 PM
The point is this team is inconsistent on both sides of the ball. For some reason the offense seems to get a pass based on stats. They failed to score more than 20 points in all their losses. One game had it not been for the defense creating g TO's and scoring a TD they would have lost. Their totals for the year where good but they where as up and down as the defense.

in those 7 losses, like 4 games we were down 14 pts by the end of the 1rst lol. kinda impossible to do well offensively when the opposing team forces the offense into passing situations from jump street. its why Atl, and Balt were able to pin their ears back and attack without a worry of the run. the reason we failed to get to 20 pts most those losses, bc the D wasnt given the Offense enough possessions. I know a few of our losses we didn't score more than 20 pts, we still scored like on 60% of our possessions, the D's inability to get off the field week in week out was too mch to overcome some weeks.

id say the Pitt game would be a fair representation of the Offense not doing its job and leading to a loss bc the D did its job that game. Most our other losses, u cannot say our D did its job. Maybe a couple of the losses (Washington and Philly) but thats about it off the top of my head

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 02:55 PM
Of course not. Why would anyone think that?No one would so what he said is fine. He is the team captain and he has acknowledged that he and his unit need to be better and he has a goal he wold like to achieve for himself and his unit. Nothing wrong with that.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 03:08 PM
Take away the last two losses because the entire team didn't show up and they fell behind by 14 only once in those other 5 losses. That game was also filled with interception, a fumble, and poor special teams coverage. That was the Bengals game. They had a total of 270 yards and scored 31 points because of TO's.

GameTime
06-25-2013, 03:09 PM
For the defense to carry the team, wouldn't that mean they'd have to be the top ranked unit on our team?

no...the point is that Tuck knows the defense has been lacking and he wants them to have the attitude to be dominant...
get it yet??

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 03:17 PM
no...the point is that Tuck knows the defense has been lacking and he wants them to have the attitude to be dominant...
get it yet??Okay, and in addition to wanting a new attitude, he "hopes the defense carries the team." Now, in light of this, just answer my question: For the defense to carry the team, wouldn't that mean they'd have to be the top ranked unit on our team?

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 03:25 PM
No one would so what he said is fine. Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that there were only two options: aspire to carry the team, or aspire to be middle of the pack.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 03:26 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that there were only two options: aspire to carry the team, or aspire to be middle of the pack.Just didn't know why he had to be from another universe to say he wants he and his unit to play better.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 03:28 PM
Just didn't know why he had to be from another universe to say he wants he and his unit to play better.Well, I guess if you couldn't diagnose the hyperbole, you can't understand why, then.

GameTime
06-25-2013, 03:30 PM
Okay, and in addition to wanting a new attitude, he "hopes the defense carries the team." Now, in light of this, just answer my question: For the defense to carry the team, wouldn't that mean they'd have to be the top ranked unit on our team?
To carry the team game in and game out yes they would have to be "better' than the offense. But IMO what Tuck is implying is they have to and should want to play like have to carry the team . This way there is no excuse for playing lax so the offense can make up for the D's poor play.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 03:36 PM
To carry the team game in and game out yes they would have to be "better' than the offense. But IMO what Tuck is implying is they have to and should want to play like have to carry the team . This way there is no excuse for playing lax so the offense can make up for the D's poor play.Since that is your opinion, I have no problem with it. But staying within the text, and not digging into underlying meaning, Tuck is stating in a black and white fashion that he hopes the defense carries the team; he states that verbatim, with no equivocation.

My OP in this thread only serves to show a lack of confidence in Tuck's prediction. For Tuck's goal to be true, they'd have to outperform a perennial top-10 offense, and nothing I've seen from the past four years sells me on that.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 03:37 PM
So that wasn't a dig at Tuck? Ok then.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 03:40 PM
Since that is your opinion, I have no problem with it. But staying within the text, and not digging into underlying meaning, Tuck is stating in a black and white fashion that he hopes the defense carries the team; he states that verbatim, with no equivocation. My OP in this thread only serves to show a lack of confidence in Tuck's prediction. For Tuck's goal to be true, they'd have to outperform a perennial top-10 offense, and nothing I've seen from the past four years sells me on that.That's fair, but wouldn't you still expect any player to speak with confidence. Had he said anything less he would be ripped apart by the press and the fans.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 03:46 PM
Had he said anything less he would be ripped apart by the press and the fans.You are mistaken in your belief that Tuck couldn't have tampered his goal without compromising his confidence.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 03:48 PM
So that wasn't a dig at Tuck? Ok then.It's a dig on Tuck's proclamation, not Tuck personally, so no need to rush to his defense.

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 03:48 PM
Take away the last two losses because the entire team didn't show up and they fell behind by 14 only once in those other 5 losses. That game was also filled with interception, a fumble, and poor special teams coverage. That was the Bengals game. They had a total of 270 yards and scored 31 points because of TO's.so, in other words, when I said, of the 7 losses like 3 of them we were behind multiple scores immediately, that'd be right?

jk I know, its why I made the statement but I wasnt sure it was just off my memory. But, u hae to agree, those losses, the offense was put in terrible position.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 03:49 PM
You are mistaken in your belief that Tuck couldn't have tampered his goal without compromising his confidence.Really? If the captain of the team didn't express confidence in wanting to be the best the NY media and its fans would not have ripped him apart? Sure, it doesn't sound realistic, but like hearing that its their goal and hopefully they try their hardest to be. Doesn't mean he needs to tone it down.

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 03:51 PM
well, i think gametime and gmen, u guys are both right. Tuck wasnt really trying to imply the D had to be better than the O when he was saying he wants the D to carry the team. But, at the same time, Tuck says he wants the D to be dominant like back in LT's day. So, if that were to actually happen, the D would theoretically be ranked leaguewide better than our Offense is.

I took Tuck making the statement he did, to imply the D needs to get up to the level of the O, not that the D needs to outdo the O. But thats just my take on it. can see where ur both coming from and really u both r right just diff aspects.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 03:52 PM
What game did the defense alone lose a game this past season? Yeah it's a team sport but what game was just a complete fail by the defense? Again, taking away the last two losses because both sides didn't show up, they fell behind by 14 in just 1 game. Go look how bad the offense was in those last two losses. They where horrible on their own and not because of the defense.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 03:52 PM
Really? If the captain of the team didn't express confidence in wanting to be the best the NY media and its fans would not have ripped him apart? Sure, it doesn't sound realistic, but like hearing that its their goal and hopefully they try their hardest to be. Doesn't mean he needs to tone it down.What was Tuck asked to elicit his response?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 03:53 PM
What was Tuck asked to elicit his response?Does it matter? As a fan it's nice to hear that they want to be the best.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 03:55 PM
Actually he says they have to "think" they can carry the team.

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 03:56 PM
What game did the defense alone lose a game this past season? Yeah it's a team sport but what game was just a complete fail by the defense? Again, taking away the last two losses because both sides didn't show up, they fell behind by 14 in just 1 game. Go look how bad the offense was in those last two losses. They where horrible on their own and not because of the defense.i think u misunderstood my point. its a team sport, and its never due to solely the offense or defense.
my point was, the D hurt the O chance/ability to perform at the level needed when putting them behind multiple scores early in the game and without being able to actually stop the offense for the entire game, like really stop them. It forces the offense into passing without the threat of the run, which allows the D to pin their ears back and just go all out vs the pass. Now, that doesnt excuse ELi and the offense for their mistakes and inability to get the job done in those 3 losses. But it does factor into it and its an example, imo, of what Tucks getting at with his statement.

the pitt loss, that was almost the complete opposite of those other 3 losses. the D was doing its job and then some, and the O just continually faltered and made things words for the D. But, the Pitt game was like the 1 example of that. Maybe the Cinc game, but again, we were down by multiple TDs so quickly, and vs their DL, thats a recipe for disaster which is what we saw.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 03:56 PM
Does it matter? As a fan it's nice to hear that they want to be the best.It matters a lot when you believe that Tuck said the only thing that wouldn't compromise his confidence. So, I take it you don't know?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:00 PM
Don't know and it doesn't matter. He is an athlete and the captain of his team. Anything less than trying to be his best would not go over well with fans or the media.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:02 PM
The offense scored 20 points or less 7 times last year and it would have been 8 times had it not been for the defense. The offense did not carry this team last year. They where as inconsistent as the defense. Showed up one week and not the next.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 04:03 PM
Anything less than trying to be his best would not go over well with fans or the media.If, instead of saying what he said here, he said: "We need to improve, because last year was embarrassing," do you really think the NY media and fans would rip him apart, or that it "wouldn't go over well"? I certainly don't.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:05 PM
If, instead of saying what he said here, he said: "We need to improve, because last year was embarrassing," do you really think the NY media and fans would rip him apart, or that it "wouldn't go over well"? I certainly don't.No, and he has said that. He also said they need to "think" they can carry the team. He knows they are a high powered offense. All he said is he wants them to be like the Giants defenses that used to punish offenses.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 04:06 PM
And because we don't even know what the question that elicited this response was, what if he just didn't say anything? Do you think someone would make a thread today saying, "Man, Tuck is awfully quiet, he should be outspoken during this boring offseason"?

pino
06-25-2013, 04:10 PM
WHO CARES who carried who? The Defense sucked eggs! The offense was average at best, but the defense was HORRIBLE. The Jets had better D.

If it wasn't for our take-aways, we could have quite possibly had the worse defense in the NFL.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 04:15 PM
No, and he has said that.And what was the feedback? Did the NY media crucify him?



He also said they need to "think" they can carry the team.He said that right after he set his goal at carrying the team. But let's assume that the mindset is the only thing he was referring too: that alone would disprove your formerly stated opinion, right here:
Had he said ****anything less**** he would be ripped apart by the press and the fans.

*Where "anything less" is the consequent to: "they'd have to outperform a perennial top-10 offense."

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:19 PM
So you are upset hat he set his goals high? So he could have worded it a different way to please YOU. Has what he said upset anyone?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:21 PM
And because we don't even know what the question that elicited this response was, what if he just didn't say anything? Do you think someone would make a thread today saying, "Man, Tuck is awfully quiet, he should be outspoken during this boring offseason"?So why exactly should he have worded it any different? How did what he say become so offensive?

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 04:21 PM
So you are upset hat he set his goals high? So he could have worded it a different way to please YOU. Has what he said upset anyone?I don't think anyone is upset by his statement, but I can only speak for myself.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 04:22 PM
So why exactly should he have worded it any different? How did what he say become so offensive?He didn't have to re-word anything he said, and nothing he said was offensive. From where are you drawing these rash conclusions?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:27 PM
You asked what reverse universe he lived in and then responded to another post by saying he would have to think they where better than the offense. Realistic or not its good to hear what they aspire to be.

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 04:28 PM
The offense scored 20 points or less 7 times last year and it would have been 8 times had it not been for the defense. The offense did not carry this team last year. They where as inconsistent as the defense. Showed up one week and not the next.forgive me for taking actual members of the team defenses opinion over urs. pretty sure when guys like Tuck, JPP, etc etc remark on how the D needs to carry its weight and not depend on the O to carry them, they arent just saying it for ****s and giggles. pretty sure thats how they actually feel, which makes sense, bc thats what actually happened.

Did the O meet the challenge and carry the D week in week out? hell no. doesnt mean the D didnt put the O in a position that in order to win it needed to.

of the 7 losses, 3 were when the D gave up multiple score leads early and were unable to make adjustments or stop the offenses in any way. Atl, Cinc, Balt, just off the top of my head, the O was never really in a chance to carry the team bc the D shadt the bed that bad those games. Again, the O certainly wasnt its best week in week out. That doesnt mean the D didnt rely on the O way too much and didnt put the O in situations that were almost impossible to overcome. thats what happened the 3 losses.

further, instead of focusing on the losses, how about the 9 wins? of our 9 wins, i'd bet off the top of my head, the D conceded more than 24 points, more yards, and were unable to get off the ****ing field. I need to look into it, but I'd bet at least half of our wins, the D performed as it did in most of our losses. The Pitt loss would be the ONE loss I'd exonerate the D.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 04:29 PM
I'm just tired of the excuses for the defense.

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 04:29 PM
You asked what reverse universe he lived in and then responded to another post by saying he would have to think they where better than the offense. Realistic or not its good to hear what they aspire to be.

gmen isnt claiming what ur thinking he is. he's merely stating his disbelief in the ability for Tuck to attain the goal he had set, the "D dominating like back in LT's day and carrying the team."

he's allowed to hold that opinion especially when Tucks made similar statements going on 2 yrs now and the D hasn't played well aside from a few 3 game stretches.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 04:30 PM
You asked what reverse universe he lived in and then responded to another post by saying he would have to think they where better than the offense. Realistic or not its good to hear what they aspire to be.Just because you didn't quote a specific post doesn't make this any less of a non sequitur.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 04:33 PM
he's merely stating his disbelief in the ability for Tuck to attain the goal he had set, the "D dominating like back in LT's day and carrying the team."Man, I don't know where you'd get such a crazy idea from...


My OP in this thread only serves to show a lack of confidence in Tuck's prediction.

Oh wait! lol (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?31558-Justin-Tuck-Defense-Has-To-Carry-Giants&p=791452&viewfull=1#post791452)

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 04:35 PM
lol gmen

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:35 PM
If the offense thinks they don't need to get better then they are fooling themselves. The defense shut down Green Bay and the Saints. They held Carolina to just 7 points and the 49ers just 3. They won the second Dallas game. The last game was a good team effort. The Tampa and Browns game where games that lots of points where scored and the mighty offense put the defense in a bad position to start the game with multiple TO's.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:36 PM
I'm just tired of the excuses for the defense.What excuses?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:40 PM
Just because you didn't quote a specific post doesn't make this any less of a non sequitur.Did what he say bother you?

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 04:41 PM
What excuses?The offense could't convert on 3rd down! Huh? It wasn't like they were stopping anyone on 3rd down either lol. Ohhh they were injured!! Even though they stopped the best offenses!

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:42 PM
The offense could't convert on 3rd down! Huh? It wasn't like they were stopping anyone on 3rd down either lol. Ohhh they were injured!! Even though they stopped the best offenses!Didn't read every post on this thread. Where did you read that?

Ruttiger711
06-25-2013, 04:42 PM
What excuses?

I could bet money that after a loss that there would be a post from you specifically blaming the offense or saying the D did their job.

A game could have ended 21-20 with a final score given up by the D and you would blame the offense for only scoring 20.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:43 PM
Man, I don't know where you'd get such a crazy idea from...Oh wait! lol (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?31558-Justin-Tuck-Defense-Has-To-Carry-Giants&p=791452&viewfull=1#post791452)Said a couple of times that it may not be realistic but still isn't a bad thing to say.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 04:45 PM
Didn't read every post on this thread. Where did you read that?Does it have to be in this thread?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:46 PM
I could bet money that after a loss that there would be a post from you specifically blaming the offense or saying the D did their job. A game could have ended 21-20 with a final score given up by the D and you would blame the offense for only scoring 20.Have blamed the offense for this past season as well as the defense. What game did the defense do that in? Know the offense came up short in two closely contested games.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:47 PM
Does it have to be in this thread?Lol. Well then why post it here when it hasn't been brought up?

TheAnalyst
06-25-2013, 04:48 PM
You do realize that last year the offense scored 20 or fewer points in all 7 losses and in 1 win the score included a TD by JPP.

Defense couldnt get off the field and could not stop 3rd downs preventing the offense from scoring more. Not all was the defenses fault, but a lot was.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 04:48 PM
Lol. Well then why post it here when it hasn't been brought up?You do that to everyone else when there's a defense thread. "The defense was bad but the offense was just as bad maybe worse". You do it quite a bit on threads not having to do with the offense on a defensive thread.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:55 PM
You do that to everyone else when there's a defense thread. "The defense was bad but the offense was just as bad maybe worse". You do it quite a bit on threads not having to do with the offense on a defensive thread.Well when blaming the defense alone yes the offense needs to be brought up. So it's relevant. Both sides where bad, not just the defense. You brought up excuses and haven't seen any today.

Ruttiger711
06-25-2013, 04:55 PM
Have blamed the offense for this past season as well as the defense. What game did the defense do that in? Know the offense came up short in two closely contested games.

That's the difference in our perspective. The D came up short all season long. They were a highlight reel defense at best and were able to shine the MINORITY of the time.

They simply weren't good and any time anyone pointed out that obvious statement, your first reaction would be to wag a finger at the offense, when the majority of the fans were ALSO saying the offense didn't play well.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:55 PM
The offense did fine getting off the field themselves going 3 and out.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 04:57 PM
That's the difference in our perspective. The D came up short all season long. They were a highlight reel defense at best and were able to shine the MINORITY of the time. They simply weren't good and any time anyone pointed out that obvious statement, your first reaction would be to wag a finger at the offense, when the majority of the fans were ALSO saying the offense didn't play well.That's because their board so heavily blames the defense and the offense was just as inconsistent as the defense. Good one game. Didn't show the next.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 04:57 PM
Well when blaming the defense alone yes the offense needs to be brought up. So it's relevant. Both sides where bad, not just the defense. You brought up excuses and haven't seen any today.So they have to be brought up TODAY in this VERY thread for them to be true? That doesn't make any sense.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 04:58 PM
Said a couple of times that it may not be realistic but still isn't a bad thing to say.When did I say that what Tuck said was "bad"? You're accusing me of a lot, and proving very little.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:01 PM
When did I say that what Tuck said was "bad"? You're accusing me of a lot, and proving very little.Read it wrong then. Didn't sound like you liked it.

joemorrisforprez
06-25-2013, 05:01 PM
What makes this year different than last year? The offense is going to carry the season, I can guarantee it.

Agreed. It will be squarely on Eli, once again.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:04 PM
So they have to be brought up TODAY in this VERY thread for them to be true? That doesn't make any sense.Well you where the one that brought up that the offense needed to score 40 points a game to win and that simply wasn't true. That's how the offense got into this.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 05:04 PM
Read it wrong then. Didn't sound like you liked it.Good. Now I'm out.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmk0i1RbV81qii6tmo1_500.gif

B&RWarrior
06-25-2013, 05:04 PM
Defense couldnt get off the field and could not stop 3rd downs preventing the offense from scoring more. Not all was the defenses fault, but a lot was.

C'mon at the end of the year it was clear defenses had adjusted to our offense. I still remember the commentator for the Ravens game saying that Coach Harbaugh told him before the game that he didn't see how the Giants were going to do anything on his defense. WTF??? When do you hear an opposing coach give out clip baord material, or even worse when talk ish and then go out and blank the other team.

The offense looked bad all on it's own a lot last year. Didn't Manning go like 24 Quarters without throwing a TD. This may be wrong, but I could have swore he had a long stretch of doing nothing on offense.

B&RWarrior
06-25-2013, 05:06 PM
Agreed. It will be squarely on Eli, once again.

I don't think we can go far with out help from the D and the running game.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 05:06 PM
Well you where the one that brought up that the offense needed to score 40 points a game to win and that simply wasn't true. That's how the offense got into this.I said that because you said that in another thread. You have a terrible memory.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:08 PM
I said that because you said that in another thread. You have a terrible memory.What?

GameTime
06-25-2013, 05:08 PM
wow....a pissing contest over the capt of the D hoping and wanting his defense to aspire to be the best they can be...

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:09 PM
wow....a pissing contest over the capt of the D hoping and wanting his defense to aspire to be the best they can be...Horrible!

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 05:12 PM
Horrible!Why, because you ran out of piss?

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 05:12 PM
What?How is my post confusing? Lol.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 05:13 PM
wow....a pissing contest over the capt of the D hoping and wanting his defense to aspire to be the best they can be...No one solely faults Tuck for wanting to improve.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:14 PM
How is my post confusing? Lol.Because it makes no sense.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:15 PM
No one solely faults Tuck for wanting to improve.No but he should tone it down a bit.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 05:15 PM
Because it makes no sense.How does it not make any sense?

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:16 PM
How does it not make any sense?You brought up the offense in this thread.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 05:17 PM
No but he should tone it down a bit.He isn't obligated to.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:19 PM
He isn't obligated to.Yeah but no need to be over the top.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 05:19 PM
You brought up the offense in this thread.Ok? Like I said, you do it all the time in other defensive threads lol.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 05:19 PM
And what I said about the offense is relevant to what Tuck said.

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 05:20 PM
Yeah but no need to be over the top.I can't speak to Tuck's needs. I don't think you can, either.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:21 PM
Ok? Like I said, you do it all the time in other defensive threads lol.You brought up the offense so its been dragged into the conversation. Excuses where not.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:22 PM
I can't speak to Tuck's needs. I don't think you can, either.Yeah but he could have toned it down a bit. He didn't have to say it the way he did.

Rudyy
06-25-2013, 05:26 PM
You brought up the offense so its been dragged into the conversation. Excuses where not.Actually excuses are relevant in this thread too. Tuck is the king of them lol.

Buddy333
06-25-2013, 05:27 PM
Actually excuses are relevant in this thread too. Tuck is the king of them lol.Ouch!

gmen0820
06-25-2013, 05:30 PM
Yeah but he could have toned it down a bit. He didn't have to say it the way he did.Your "Yeah/No but" routine is an interesting way of recovering from 20+ posts based on misinterpretation and false accusations.

Sovereign
06-25-2013, 07:50 PM
;););)
The only thing the defense can carry is Eli's equipment because they rely on him to not get their asses cut.

giantsfan420
06-25-2013, 08:29 PM
Ok? Like I said, you do it all the time in other defensive threads lol.i def. can verify that 1000%. even in threads that are about the offense and things they did well, buddy you'll enter the thread and make sure u let us know (for the millionth time) how the O messed the D up or whatever ur position is (its changed since the stats have overwhelmingly proved the D was more of an issue/lack of success than the o)

speedman
06-25-2013, 09:15 PM
i def. can verify that 1000%. even in threads that are about the offense and things they did well, buddy you'll enter the thread and make sure u let us know (for the millionth time) how the O messed the D up or whatever ur position is (its changed since the stats have overwhelmingly proved the D was more of an issue/lack of success than the o) Maybe he is Perry Fewell.

NYGcolbert
06-25-2013, 11:10 PM
I doubt the Giants have the D to carry this team we are not going to be the same D we were before.. Maybe the Giant should go with a more Offensive philosophy but I doubt we'll have the D to carry a whole team like years past. Looking at our schedule seem beneficial though it's not as bad as others I've see so another year of playoffs and another SB I hope.Go GMEN!