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View Full Version : Simeon Rice On Michael Strahan: I was In A Class By Myself



RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 08:58 AM
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/35741/Simeon-Rice-on-Michael-Strahan--I-Was-in-a-Class-of-My-Own/Default.aspx

Excerpt: "Last week Warren Sapp told The Tampa Tribune that Simeon Rice is a better pass rusher than Michael Strahan. This week Tiki Barber, a former teammate of Strahan, said that Warren Sapp is an idiot.

Rice joined Booger McFarland and Rich Herrera on 98.7 The Fan (http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/06/25/audio-simeon-rice-says-warren-sapp-has-more-knowledge-on-pass-rushers-than-tiki-barber/) and said his own body of work shows that he was a tremendous pass rusher and that he never got the respect he truly deserved. Rice said that Michael Strahan was an excellent defensive lineman, but Rice himself was in a class of his own. Rice said that he felt that he impacted the game by being one of the first hybrid defensive ends in the NFL." Read more...

BJacobs aka The Problem
06-27-2013, 09:11 AM
Read that yesterday and was like "seriously?" Hard for me to have an unbiased response to this because a.) I'm a Giants fan and b.)Man I hate the Bucs and their fans after living in the Trampa Bay for over a decade.

I will say this. Rice was an exceptional pass rusher but he also benefited from having one great DT in Sapp and another good DT in McFarland. Those two DT's helped because QB's couldn't step up into the pocket when Rice would speed around the edges. Rice was also suspect when it came to running plays. He benefited from having good linebackers like Brooks and good tackling CB's like Barber who took the light off the fact that he wasn't really that great at stopping the run.

On stats alone, you gotta give the guy his due, but really all he ever did was run his mouth. It's the reason why his career was much shorter than Strahan's. If he was so damn good, he would have had a longer career IMO.

NYGabriel
06-27-2013, 09:11 AM
Rice is an idiot. Strahans sack record belongs to Deacon Jones or Mark Gastineau but he was better than Rice.

gumby74
06-27-2013, 09:12 AM
Rice is a dolt, but you can't deny that he was great at what he did.

RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 09:12 AM
Read that yesterday and was like "seriously?" Hard for me to have an unbiased response to this because a.) I'm a Giants fan and b.)Man I hate the Bucs and their fans after living in the Trampa Bay for over a decade.

I will say this. Rice was an exceptional pass rusher but he also benefited from having one great DT in Sapp and another good DT in McFarland. Those two DT's helped because QB's couldn't step up into the pocket when Rice would speed around the edges. Rice was also suspect when it came to running plays. He benefited from having good linebackers like Brooks and good tackling CB's like Barber who took the light off the fact that he wasn't really that great at stopping the run.

On stats alone, you gotta give the guy his due, but really all he ever did was run his mouth. It's the reason why his career was much shorter than Strahan's. If he was so damn good, he would have had a longer career IMO.

I am starting to think Sapp is trying to influence the next HOF ballot to give Strahan more competition and another pass by the voters.

BJacobs aka The Problem
06-27-2013, 09:22 AM
I am starting to think Sapp is trying to influence the next HOF ballot to give Strahan more competition and another pass by the voters.

I really don't understand his beef with Strahan. Is just hate because Strahan is more of a media darling?

Roosevelt
06-27-2013, 09:26 AM
I am starting to think Sapp is trying to influence the next HOF ballot to give Strahan more competition and another pass by the voters.

He might being trying that but I don't imagine him having any influence over the voters.

BJacobs aka The Problem
06-27-2013, 09:33 AM
He might being trying that but I don't imagine him having any influence over the voters.

I don't know man, when he revealed that it was Red Herring, I mean Shockey who blew the whistle on(can't believe i'm going to call it this) BountyGate, the media was convinced!

MattMeyerBud
06-27-2013, 09:34 AM
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/35741/Simeon-Rice-on-Michael-Strahan--I-Was-in-a-Class-of-My-Own/Default.aspx

Excerpt: "Last week Warren Sapp told The Tampa Tribune that Simeon Rice is a better pass rusher than Michael Strahan. This week Tiki Barber, a former teammate of Strahan, said that Warren Sapp is an idiot.

Rice joined Booger McFarland and Rich Herrera on 98.7 The Fan (http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/06/25/audio-simeon-rice-says-warren-sapp-has-more-knowledge-on-pass-rushers-than-tiki-barber/) and said his own body of work shows that he was a tremendous pass rusher and that he never got the respect he truly deserved. Rice said that Michael Strahan was an excellent defensive lineman, but Rice himself was in a class of his own. Rice said that he felt that he impacted the game by being one of the first hybrid defensive ends in the NFL." Read more...

In all reality, Rice probably was slightly better as a pass rusher

but overall, as a defensive end - no way. Strahan was a beast against the run.. He wasn't a one dimensional player

MattMeyerBud
06-27-2013, 09:36 AM
I don't know man, when he revealed that it was Red Herring, I mean Shockey who blew the whistle on(can't believe i'm going to call it this) BountyGate, the media was convinced!

and then after being blatantly wrong, after speaking with such conviction, to just be 110% wrong probably hurt his credibility in things like this.

Theres a reason hes no long doing Inside the NFL and is doing the show in NFL network now. Its because hes just a talking head who is entertaining. He couldn't hang with Simms and Collinsworth. You saw the difference in knowledge every week

GameTime
06-27-2013, 10:09 AM
a class by himself...
that doesn tmean ia good class...lol

he was a very good but these guys all have huge egos....

RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 10:18 AM
He might being trying that but I don't imagine him having any influence over the voters.

I would think it would backfire. Sapp is a becoming a post player legend in his own mind.

RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 10:19 AM
and then after being blatantly wrong, after speaking with such conviction, to just be 110% wrong probably hurt his credibility in things like this.

Theres a reason hes no long doing Inside the NFL and is doing the show in NFL network now. Its because hes just a talking head who is entertaining. He couldn't hang with Simms and Collinsworth. You saw the difference in knowledge every week

+1

TrueBlue@NYC
06-27-2013, 10:21 AM
Rice many have some better sack numbers during certain parts of his career, but he spent most of his time going 1 on 1 as a LDE, Strahan played RDE, which although it means he's not taking on the teams' best OL, but he was double teamed A LOT more. It's why most teams put their best pass rusher on the weakside.

And Strahan was tons better against the run.

This feud b/t strahan and rice has been going on for a while, stra even addressed it in his book, but I think was from back in 2006, so this isn't a new thing.

giantsfan420
06-27-2013, 10:49 AM
i dunno what everyone expected. we all know how egotistical DE's can be. we've seen it first hand time n time again. Strahan, and then Osi...Osi's been saying hes a top 5 DE for a couple yrs now lmao. these guys have alpha dog mentalities ingrained in their heads, it almost is a prerequisite.

asking a DL like Rice, or Sapp, Or Strah if they're the greatest, cant see how anyone would be surprised when they claim they are.

RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 10:52 AM
i dunno what everyone expected. we all know how egotistical DE's can be. we've seen it first hand time n time again. Strahan, and then Osi...Osi's been saying hes a top 5 DE for a couple yrs now lmao. these guys have alpha dog mentalities ingrained in their heads, it almost is a prerequisite.

asking a DL like Rice, or Sapp, Or Strah if they're the greatest, cant see how anyone would be surprised when they claim they are.

Has Strahan ever made that claim publicly?

giantsfan420
06-27-2013, 10:56 AM
Has Strahan ever made that claim publicly?i mean, i dunno if he's ever had to state it, at least recently. he kinda at this point just has that air about him. i havent read his book, but he also certainly acts like one of the best all time, and rightfully so.

i shoulda clarified in my post that despite all dl having that ego where they cant be stopped etc, that sometimes the guy is actually right lol. but, strahan has certainly never been shy, and maybe ur right hes never out n out said he was the best of all time or whatever, but he def displayed an attitude/mentality like he was one of the greatest and i dont think that can be denied really.

fletch842
06-27-2013, 10:56 AM
In all reality, Rice probably was slightly better as a pass rusher

but overall, as a defensive end - no way. Strahan was a beast against the run.. He wasn't a one dimensional player
That is what Sapp and Rice are conveniently forgetting. Strahan was one of the elite run defenders throughout his career. You couple that with his pass rushing ability, and the longevity of his career, and the comparison gets blown out of the water. Personally, I think that Strahan was at least Rice's equal as a pass rusher regardless.

TheAnalyst
06-27-2013, 10:59 AM
Strahan > Sapp > Rice

End of story

dezzzR
06-27-2013, 11:11 AM
New York Giants' Pat Hanlon: "Warren Sapp Should Take Brian Cashman's Advice"

TCHOF
06-27-2013, 11:13 AM
New York Giants' Pat Hanlon: "Warren Sapp Should Take Brian Cashman's Advice"

Is there any sports executive who is more unprofessional than Pat Hanlon? Maybe Cashman with his statement that ARod should shut the **** up . . . . .

BJacobs aka The Problem
06-27-2013, 11:14 AM
Sapp was a great player and he should just be content with his bust in Canton, but let's be clear here, after he left Tampa, he pretty much fell off the face of the earth. He had one more good season and then was done. Same with Rice, for someone who was in a class of their own, after the 2005 season he recorded just 3 sacs in 16 games over 2 seasons.

The difference between those 2 and Strahan was the fact that Strahan was able to play at a high level for a much longer period of time and was also a complete player rather then being a one trick pony.

So this nonsense by Sapp and Rice is just that, nonsense. Rice doesn't belong in the HOF, Sapp and Strahan do. Sapp is already in and should just keep his ignorant trap shut. Strahan will his day.

RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 11:31 AM
Is there any sports executive who is more unprofessional than Pat Hanlon? Maybe Cashman with his statement that ARod should shut the **** up . . . . .

Woody Johnson and his entire organization

GameTime
06-27-2013, 11:34 AM
Is there any sports executive who is more unprofessional than Pat Hanlon? Maybe Cashman with his statement that ARod should shut the **** up . . . . .
Cashman made a mistake....one mistake and he admitted it. Is he unproffesional because of one comment?? No he isnt.
Hanlon.....if he was so bad he would not be working for the org......

giantsfan420
06-27-2013, 11:35 AM
Sapp was a great player and he should just be content with his bust in Canton, but let's be clear here, after he left Tampa, he pretty much fell off the face of the earth. He had one more good season and then was done. Same with Rice, for someone who was in a class of their own, after the 2005 season he recorded just 3 sacs in 16 games over 2 seasons.

The difference between those 2 and Strahan was the fact that Strahan was able to play at a high level for a much longer period of time and was also a complete player rather then being a one trick pony.

So this nonsense by Sapp and Rice is just that, nonsense. Rice doesn't belong in the HOF, Sapp and Strahan do. Sapp is already in and should just keep his ignorant trap shut. Strahan will his day.

well stated.

also, there is some truth to the statement that while Rice was able to face a lot of 1v1s bc Sapp,Mcfarland, and Brooks were all extremely explosive players as well.
Strah, for much of his career until we got Osi n Tuck up to full speed, which was more towards the latter part of his career, he was pretty much the main threat and would face double and even triple teams on the regular. and strahan still had more sustained sack numbers. Rice was a phenom pass rusher, dont want to come off like i dont think that, but he was able to benefit a ton of the defensive scheme and personnel, TB's D was setup to get Rice those 1v1s and free rush lanes, where as our D, for much of Strah's career, he was the guy opening up stuff for the other guys and he still had tremendous individual success.

barran21
06-27-2013, 11:43 AM
I really don't understand his beef with Strahan. Is just hate because Strahan is more of a media darling?

Dude is Jealous, Strahan lands at Fox right out of retirement for $2m/year, Sapp the NFLn $500k/year, Sapp is worth $0000, Strahan estimated at $35m...

MattMeyerBud
06-27-2013, 12:08 PM
i dunno what everyone expected. we all know how egotistical DE's can be. we've seen it first hand time n time again. Strahan, and then Osi...Osi's been saying hes a top 5 DE for a couple yrs now lmao. these guys have alpha dog mentalities ingrained in their heads, it almost is a prerequisite.

asking a DL like Rice, or Sapp, Or Strah if they're the greatest, cant see how anyone would be surprised when they claim they are.

ego from Strahan? Hope ur not basing that off of a holdout

MattMeyerBud
06-27-2013, 12:10 PM
That is what Sapp and Rice are conveniently forgetting. Strahan was one of the elite run defenders throughout his career. You couple that with his pass rushing ability, and the longevity of his career, and the comparison gets blown out of the water. Personally, I think that Strahan was at least Rice's equal as a pass rusher regardless.

not to stick up for Sapp, because he obviously has some issue with Strahan, but his original comment was that Rice was just a better rusher, not palyer, not defensive end...

he may of suggested it without coming out nad saying it, but his lone comment was that Rice was a better rusher. And I think homerism put away, I would agree with that.

But only that. Strahan was the most complete player, if Rice was better it was not by much, and I take Strahan over Rice 10 out 10 times

MattMeyerBud
06-27-2013, 12:11 PM
New York Giants' Pat Hanlon: "Warren Sapp Should Take Brian Cashman's Advice"

LMAO I love Hanlon

and Cashman a little bit more after that rant

MattMeyerBud
06-27-2013, 12:11 PM
Is there any sports executive who is more unprofessional than Pat Hanlon? Maybe Cashman with his statement that ARod should shut the **** up . . . . .Woody Johnson, owner of the cavs, Colts owner, Jerry Jones, and Mark Cuban just to name a few

MattMeyerBud
06-27-2013, 12:12 PM
Sapp was a great player and he should just be content with his bust in Canton, but let's be clear here, after he left Tampa, he pretty much fell off the face of the earth. He had one more good season and then was done. Same with Rice, for someone who was in a class of their own, after the 2005 season he recorded just 3 sacs in 16 games over 2 seasons.

The difference between those 2 and Strahan was the fact that Strahan was able to play at a high level for a much longer period of time and was also a complete player rather then being a one trick pony.

So this nonsense by Sapp and Rice is just that, nonsense. Rice doesn't belong in the HOF, Sapp and Strahan do. Sapp is already in and should just keep his ignorant trap shut. Strahan will his day.

I thin kStrahan should of been in over Sapp, but I don't think Sapp was a one trick pony

Rice was

njg85m
06-27-2013, 12:18 PM
Unless your name is Muhammad Ali or Michael Jordan, you will tend to sound like a complete jackass when you start making statements like the ones Simeon Rice made.

Delicreep
06-27-2013, 12:34 PM
He might being trying that but I don't imagine him having any influence over the voters.

I actually think that Sapp may have deserved the nod before Strahan, but I can't help but think that Strahan was held out last year for two reasons.
1) the questionable final sack for the record
2) a chance to get inducted at home

Delicreep
06-27-2013, 12:36 PM
I thin kStrahan should of been in over Sapp, but I don't think Sapp was a one trick pony

Rice was

See...I think the argument can be made that Sapp actually was a kind of pioneer, where Strahan "just" excelled at his position.

RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 12:36 PM
I actually think that Sapp may have deserved the nod before Strahan, but I can't help but think that Strahan was held out last year for two reasons.
1) the questionable final sack for the record
2) a chance to get inducted at home

I don't have a problem with Sapp getting inducted before Strahan. It's his juvenile BS directed at Strahan since that makes him look like a complete fool.

Delicreep
06-27-2013, 12:40 PM
I don't have a problem with Sapp getting inducted before Strahan. It's his juvenile BS directed at Strahan since that makes him look like a complete fool.

Sapp had that title wrapped up years ago. I can't think of a single ex -player I wanted to see enter broadcasting less than this idiot.

Just
Go
Away

RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 12:43 PM
Sapp had that title wrapped up years ago. I can't think of a single ex -player I wanted to see enter broadcasting less than this idiot.

Just
Go
Away


He really does present the fringe version of a lot of stuff. Is it possible he doesn't realize, or care, how foolish he sounds?

Delicreep
06-27-2013, 12:45 PM
He really does present the fringe version of a lot of stuff. Is it possible he doesn't realize, or care, how foolish he sounds?

I suppose I wouldn't either if the check clears and I needed the money.

RoanokeFan
06-27-2013, 12:46 PM
I suppose I wouldn't either if the check clears and I needed the money.

lol I have no argument for that

GameTime
06-27-2013, 01:30 PM
many HOFrs are probably ignorant....Sapp is no different

gmen0820
06-27-2013, 02:11 PM
Yeah, special-ed.

BJacobs aka The Problem
06-27-2013, 02:27 PM
I thin kStrahan should of been in over Sapp, but I don't think Sapp was a one trick pony

Rice was

Probably should have separated that part, I mean Rice being the one trick pony.

As far as who should have gone in first, I believe it's a toss up. Sapp is definitely a HOF DT and Strahan should get in at DE next year. But I don't think Rice is.

JJC7301
06-28-2013, 12:09 AM
I don't remember ever being all that impressed with Simeon Rice. Not saying he was bad, but I never feared him when the Giants had to play against a team that he was on.

ShakeandBake
06-28-2013, 12:17 AM
Simeon Rice was Osi light. Give me a break, he wasn't anywhere near as good as Stray was.

BuffyBlueII
06-28-2013, 02:07 AM
I am starting to think Sapp is trying to influence the next HOF ballot to give Strahan more competition and another pass by the voters.

+1

BuffyBlueII
06-28-2013, 02:10 AM
I really don't understand his beef with Strahan. Is just hate because Strahan is more of a media darling?

Sapp hates him because he played after he won his Superbowl and accomplished nothing while Stray retired after he won his SuperBowl. Fat Pig Sapp hates Stray because Fat Pig Sapp had to pawn his SB Ring because he was broke after football and Stray reinvented himself and eventually took over the reigns from Regis as Kelly's co-host.

Fat Pig Sapp is jealous of Michael Strahan, he always was, he always will be.

BuffyBlueII
06-28-2013, 02:11 AM
Simeon Rice was Osi light. Give me a break, he wasn't anywhere near as good as Stray was.

He wasn't as good as Osi either.

MattMeyerBud
06-28-2013, 09:36 AM
Simeon Rice was Osi light. Give me a break, he wasn't anywhere near as good as Stray was.

ehhh.. i'd say Osi was Rice-light

ShakeandBake
06-28-2013, 09:38 AM
He wasn't as good as Osi either.

hence my Osi light comment

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 09:38 AM
He wasn't as good as Osi either.

Rice was better than Osi.

ShakeandBake
06-28-2013, 09:39 AM
ehhh.. i'd say Osi was Rice-light

It's really debatable either way, both were one trick ponies unlike Stray who could do it all

MattMeyerBud
06-28-2013, 09:40 AM
in JUST using numbers of sacks Rice averaged .70 a game while Osi averaged .58.

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 09:40 AM
Sapp hates him because he played after he won his Superbowl and accomplished nothing while Stray retired after he won his SuperBowl. Fat Pig Sapp hates Stray because Fat Pig Sapp had to pawn his SB Ring because he was broke after football and Stray reinvented himself and eventually took over the reigns from Regis as Kelly's co-host.

Fat Pig Sapp is jealous of Michael Strahan, he always was, he always will be.

You really think Stray reinvented himself. Every time I saw Stray step in front of a Mike he oozed Charisma and uber articulation. He always seemed very comfortable in front of the camera.

Morehead State
06-28-2013, 09:41 AM
It's really debatable either way, both were one trick ponies unlike Stray who could do it all
Wasn't the argument that Rice was a better "pass rusher"?
No doubt that Strahan was a better player, but as a pass rusher, Rice, who went up against LT's his entire career, vs. Strahan vs. RT's has a good argument.
Their stats are very similar but Strahan was going up against RT's.
A bit of an advantage to Rice there.

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 09:42 AM
It's really debatable either way, both were one trick ponies unlike Stray who could do it all


Its not debatable at all. Rice was better than Osi like Stray was a better DE than Rice.

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 09:45 AM
Wasn't the argument that Rice was a better "pass rusher"?
No doubt that Strahan was a better player, but as a pass rusher, Rice, who went up against LT's his entire career, vs. Strahan vs. RT's has a good argument.
Their stats are very similar but Strahan was going up against RT's.
A bit of an advantage to Rice there.

Rice was better of the edge. Stray had a more effective bull rush move. Rice was the better pass rusher overall. Stray was 3 times the run defender Rice was. This is big because Rice played in an era where the running game was still central to many offenses.

ShakeandBake
06-28-2013, 09:45 AM
in JUST using numbers of sacks Rice averaged .70 a game while Osi averaged .58.

Osi had more FF per game though

ShakeandBake
06-28-2013, 09:47 AM
Its not debatable at all. Rice was better than Osi like Stray was a better DE than Rice.

Ok whatever you say champ

ShakeandBake
06-28-2013, 09:52 AM
Wasn't the argument that Rice was a better "pass rusher"?
No doubt that Strahan was a better player, but as a pass rusher, Rice, who went up against LT's his entire career, vs. Strahan vs. RT's has a good argument.
Their stats are very similar but Strahan was going up against RT's.
A bit of an advantage to Rice there.

I thought the argument was that he was a better overall player, and that the argument to why his tackle #s were so low was because teams would run away from him, as if they would run at Strahan.

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 09:57 AM
Ok whatever you say champ

Not trying to sound like a know it all, but I was in Tallahassee for about about 13 years and thus forced to watch Tampa Bay games on Sunday. Rice was a better pass rusher than Osi and I'm talking about off the edge, what Osi does the best.

GameTime
06-28-2013, 09:58 AM
Strah will be and HOFr and was a great player for the Giants

thats all we really need to no, With that there is no debate..
Doesnt matter what Rice did or didnt do

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 10:02 AM
Strah will be and HOFr and was a great player for the Giants

thats all we really need to no, With that there is no debate..
Doesnt matter what Rice did or didnt do

It's a travesty Stray was not a unanimous first ballot HOFer. I lost total respect for the entire process. I've got my own HOF now and Stray got there on his first try.

Morehead State
06-28-2013, 10:05 AM
I thought the argument was that he was a better overall player, and that the argument to why his tackle #s were so low was because teams would run away from him, as if they would run at Strahan.
I believe this was the quote by Sapp that started it all.

"Nobody ever talks about Simeon,.......Simeon was a better rusher than Michael Strahan any day of the week and twice on Sunday"...Warren Sapp.

ShakeandBake
06-28-2013, 10:05 AM
Not trying to sound like a know it all, but I was in Tallahassee for about about 13 years and thus forced to watch Tampa Bay games on Sunday. Rice was a better pass rusher than Osi and I'm talking about off the edge, what Osi does the best.

You aren't coming off as a know it all, it is just impossible to argue one's opinion as to who is better. Maybe Rice was better off the edge but Osi was better at creating turnovers which to me is a lot more valuable than an extra sack here or there.

ShakeandBake
06-28-2013, 10:08 AM
I believe this was the quote by Sapp that started it all.

"Nobody ever talks about Simeon,.......Simeon was a better rusher than Michael Strahan any day of the week and twice on Sunday"...Warren Sapp.

Yeah it was, but if I remember correctly he also went on and said that teams would run away from Rice, as an excuse to why his tackle numbers were lower in comparison. He has diarrhea of the mouth and it is hard to keep track of what that blowhard has said up until now.

NYGabriel
06-28-2013, 10:08 AM
Sacks are good fun but an overrated statistic. Kevin Greene would be one of the greatest ever defensive players if you looked at his sack total.

Morehead State
06-28-2013, 10:10 AM
Sacks are good fun but an overrated statistic. Kevin Greene would be one of the greatest ever defensive players if you looked at his sack total.
I suppose any "stat" is overrated by itself.
But getting pressure on the QB, in today's game is by far the most effective way to disrupt an opposing offense.
There is really no other function of defense that is as important.

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 10:21 AM
You aren't coming off as a know it all, it is just impossible to argue one's opinion as to who is better. Maybe Rice was better off the edge but Osi was better at creating turnovers which to me is a lot more valuable than an extra sack here or there.

Osi was definitely better at creating turnovers, but over all Rice was more consistent at getting pressure, and gave better effort versus the run though neither were very good in this department. What hurt Osi a lot in the comparison is his lack of durability.

I do disagree that opinions can be wrong, but for the most part you're right. This board is proof of that, especially when I hear Eli being called the Lebron James of the NFL, all I think is wrong, wrong, WRONG! LOL

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 10:23 AM
I suppose any "stat" is overrated by itself.
But getting pressure on the QB, in today's game is by far the most effective way to disrupt an opposing offense.
There is really no other function of defense that is as important.

I think the most effective way to stop the read option offense is to stop the run. Now if you're talking about GB, Denver, Detroit, NO, and others then yes pressure on the QB is key.

B&RWarrior
06-28-2013, 10:26 AM
Yeah it was, but if I remember correctly he also went on and said that teams would run away from Rice, as an excuse to why his tackle numbers were lower in comparison. He has diarrhea of the mouth and it is hard to keep track of what that blowhard has said up until now.

That is baloney. Rice was good at chasing down runs from the backside. Teams had the most success running at Rice and running at Sapp. They were a quick athletic undersized Dline.

ny06
06-28-2013, 12:02 PM
Wasn't the argument that Rice was a better "pass rusher"?
No doubt that Strahan was a better player, but as a pass rusher, Rice, who went up against LT's his entire career, vs. Strahan vs. RT's has a good argument.
Their stats are very similar but Strahan was going up against RT's.
A bit of an advantage to Rice there.
I'm going to name a few right defensive ends and you tell me if playing against the right tackle was an advantage.
Deacon Jones, Reggie White, Carl Eller, Jack Youngblood, Dan Hampton just to name a few. All five are residing in Canton, and I doubt for a second voters put into account their position or player they went against.
This is the NFL, not collegiate football.
Strahan played 11 seasons before the Giants had another legitimate defensive end on the other side of him. He had to play with the likes of Chad Bratzke, Cedric Jones, Kenny Holmes.
Also I may add imagine if Strahan had free reigns to just attack the QB his whole career? Strahan's job was to stop the run first and go after the QB second.

MattMeyerBud
06-28-2013, 12:06 PM
Sacks are good fun but an overrated statistic. Kevin Greene would be one of the greatest ever defensive players if you looked at his sack total.

hes def considered one of the greatest pass rushers of all time

MattMeyerBud
06-28-2013, 12:08 PM
Osi was definitely better at creating turnovers, but over all Rice was more consistent at getting pressure, and gave better effort versus the run though neither were very good in this department. What hurt Osi a lot in the comparison is his lack of durability.

I do disagree that opinions can be wrong, but for the most part you're right. This board is proof of that, especially when I hear Eli being called the Lebron James of the NFL, all I think is wrong, wrong, WRONG! LOL

I pretty much agree with everything u say, except that Osi was better and put more effort at playing the run. Osi was honestly one of the worst I've ever seen.

MattMeyerBud
06-28-2013, 12:09 PM
I'm going to name a few right defensive ends and you tell me if playing against the right tackle was an advantage.
Deacon Jones, Reggie White, Carl Eller, Jack Youngblood, Dan Hampton just to name a few. All five are residing in Canton, and I doubt for a second voters put into account their position or player they went against.
This is the NFL, not collegiate football.
Strahan played 11 seasons before the Giants had another legitimate defensive end on the other side of him. He had to play with the likes of Chad Bratzke, Cedric Jones, Kenny Holmes.
Also I may add imagine if Strahan had free reigns to just attack the QB his whole career? Strahan's job was to stop the run first and go after the QB second.

Reggie White kind of kills this whole debate and makes Sapp look like a Moron. Great post

DVision
06-28-2013, 01:01 PM
Simeon was kinda right! Except he's not alone. It's called "No Class" and his buddy Sapp is there right along with him!

Morehead State
06-28-2013, 01:21 PM
Reggie White kind of kills this whole debate and makes Sapp look like a Moron. Great post
Matt........In what universe is the right tackle as good as the left tackle? At least at defending the pass rush.

Red Dog
06-28-2013, 01:52 PM
Warren that is. Here I thought the comedy routines with clown face expressions went with Jerry Lewis. Anyone not recognizing a "sapp" while watching the Sapp with his facial antics when he talks would also be a part of the International World-Wide Saps League. Bozo the clown's opinion on anything including the NFL or its players would have more believability. And what's with TV putting him on anyway. Whenever he comes on I change the channel.

GameTime
06-28-2013, 01:58 PM
Matt........In what universe is the right tackle as good as the left tackle? At least at defending the pass rush.
teams with a lefty QB??.....

Shimmy
06-28-2013, 02:12 PM
I'm going to name a few right defensive ends and you tell me if playing against the right tackle was an advantage.
Deacon Jones, Reggie White, Carl Eller, Jack Youngblood, Dan Hampton just to name a few. All five are residing in Canton, and I doubt for a second voters put into account their position or player they went against.
This is the NFL, not collegiate football.
Strahan played 11 seasons before the Giants had another legitimate defensive end on the other side of him. He had to play with the likes of Chad Bratzke, Cedric Jones, Kenny Holmes.
Also I may add imagine if Strahan had free reigns to just attack the QB his whole career? Strahan's job was to stop the run first and go after the QB second.
+1. Spot on.

Morehead State
06-28-2013, 03:09 PM
teams with a lefty QB??.....
Oh...That universe!

GameTime
06-28-2013, 03:12 PM
Oh...That universe!

you did ask.....:rolleyes:

speedman
06-28-2013, 03:42 PM
Matt........In what universe is the right tackle as good as the left tackle? At least at defending the pass rush.Should Deacon Jones and Reggie White be down graded because the played against right tackles?

nycisgreat
06-28-2013, 11:49 PM
I really don't understand his beef with Strahan. Is just hate because Strahan is more of a media darling?

These were bitter enemies when they were playing. They used to say some of the most vile stuff to each other. I am surprised that they never had a grudge match out on the field.

B&RWarrior
06-29-2013, 01:22 AM
I pretty much agree with everything u say, except that Osi was better and put more effort at playing the run. Osi was honestly one of the worst I've ever seen.

I was saying Rice was better versus the run.

MattMeyerBud
06-29-2013, 01:45 PM
Matt........In what universe is the right tackle as good as the left tackle? At least at defending the pass rush.

Pappy, then why is Reggie white heralded as he is if its such a significant difference?

Again, I concede that Rice was the better pass rusher than strahan. But honestly if we're talking about Sapps reasoning on it about RDE vs LDE then Reggie White kind of outs that to sleep.... Unless I want to say Reggie was overrated.

MattMeyerBud
06-29-2013, 01:45 PM
teams with a lefty QB??.....

Lol touché.

MattMeyerBud
06-29-2013, 01:46 PM
I was saying Rice was better versus the run.

Ahhh i must of misread

Imgrate
06-29-2013, 02:18 PM
Matt........In what universe is the right tackle as good as the left tackle? At least at defending the pass rush. qb can see the stray coming and know when to get rid of the ball.

giants8493
06-29-2013, 02:21 PM
Matt........In what universe is the right tackle as good as the left tackle? At least at defending the pass rush.on the chiefs.

Pksoze
06-29-2013, 07:09 PM
Didn't Rice try to make the Giants when Osi got hurt in 08. And instead of getting Rice we tried to lure Strahan out of retirement.

foosball
06-29-2013, 07:18 PM
Rice was a one dimensional pass rusher. I don't know how he calls himself a hybrid DE. He was just a pass rusher. He did nothing else. When he couldn't rush the QB at an elite level anymore he was out of the NFL. He retired because he couldn't get a job. The Giants offered Michael Strahan a one year 8 million dollar deal to come out of retirement.

Drez
06-29-2013, 07:24 PM
And that class is the one right below Stray, lol.

RoanokeFan
06-29-2013, 08:50 PM
Should Deacon Jones and Reggie White be down graded because the played against right tackles?

You are giving Sapp FAR too much credibility

Morehead State
06-29-2013, 09:08 PM
Pappy, then why is Reggie white heralded as he is if its such a significant difference?

Again, I concede that Rice was the better pass rusher than strahan. But honestly if we're talking about Sapps reasoning on it about RDE vs LDE then Reggie White kind of outs that to sleep.... Unless I want to say Reggie was overrated.
Generally speaking Matt. The RT on an O line isn't the quality player the LT is. That's just simply true. The LT is paid more, and given more responsibility.
He's almost always the best player on the O line.

ALLnygIN
06-29-2013, 09:29 PM
Stray was a freaking beast. man, I still remember him just owning weather he was stuffing a run play on the outside or just beating down qbs.

Drez
06-29-2013, 10:29 PM
Generally speaking Matt. The RT on an O line isn't the quality player the LT is. That's just simply true. The LT is paid more, and given more responsibility.
He's almost always the best player on the O line.Right, however, there have been some excellent RTs in the NFCE during Stray's tenure. Also, as has been mentioned, the QB usually sees the DE rushing the RT, making it easier to avoid his sack. That fact right there is why the LT is usually a better blocker, he has to protect the QB's blindside.