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RoanokeFan
06-30-2013, 08:32 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/safety_has_sacrificed_stats_by_switching_hIIlfBhhS g3Wr7LUP6QI8M

Excerpt: "Antrel Rolle considers himself to be a Pro Bowl player, but for the past two years the rest of the NFL did not. He says he is going to change that perception.

“Absolutely, there’s no doubt about it,’’ Rolle said recently.

There is no talk from Rolle about a return to form, a return to health or a return to the lineup. In his three years with the Giants, Rolle always has been there, starting all 52 games (counting the postseason) but his impact seemingly has ebbed and flowed with the rise and fall of the entire Giants defense. He is an every-down player, never coming off the field, but as the point-prevention operation sagged and clunked through a historically bad season last year, Rolle often appeared to blend into the badness.

Rolle never will evaluate his performance by such pedestrian standards.“Last year I just didn’t have the numbers as far as interceptions and things of that nature,’’ Rolle said, “but as far as just being a football player and going out there and playing the position I need to play and being that role player for my team … I’ve been All-Pro. But that’s not what you get measured at within this league. Teams notice you. I’m sure the offensive coordinator on the other team knows where Antrel is going to be at any point in time.’’

It no longer is a dirty little secret within the Giants defense that Rolle rarely plays his natural position, which is free safety. It is not a sign of decline that Rolle has just five interceptions in his three seasons with the Giants after amassing 10 interceptions in his previous three years with the Cardinals. With the Giants too often a man down at cornerback, Rolle has been asked — actually told — that for the greater good of the defense, he must spend far too much time playing nickel cornerback, perhaps the most demanding spot in the entire secondary. Rolle can do it, but not at the heightened level he reaches when allowed to roam at deep safety." Read more...

penguinfarmer
06-30-2013, 08:40 AM
It no longer is a dirty little secret within the Giants defense that Rolle rarely plays his natural position, which is free safety.

Deep coverage may be Rolle's worst facet. As nice as the concept of interchangeable safeties is, I'm actually hoping Ferrell and Merritt simplify the roles. Rolle is just a horrible read and react player.

GameTime
06-30-2013, 08:43 AM
good read.....thanks Ro.
It woudl be great to see him at his natural position where he can just "play" instead of think so to speak.
The better part of that scenario is that if he can just play saftey then the Giants have three healthy and capable CBs available all the time. Havent had that in a while...

jomo
06-30-2013, 10:17 AM
He is a tough player, very good player who puts team ahead of self. I'm not sure he's quite worth what we are paying in today's NFL but there is a reason why we paid him so handsomely at the start of his contract.

RoanokeFan
06-30-2013, 10:38 AM
He is a tough player, very good player who puts team ahead of self. I'm not sure he's quite worth what we are paying in today's NFL but there is a reason why we paid him so handsomely at the start of his contract. And then we changed the job description.

jomo
06-30-2013, 12:23 PM
And then we changed the job description.Yes, all of that..........

RoanokeFan
06-30-2013, 12:39 PM
Yes, all of that..........

The guy is a workhorse. I think I'm correct in saying he never takes a play off unless he's called out.

B&RWarrior
06-30-2013, 12:41 PM
We overpaid, no matter what he does. We paid him like the best safety in the league. He is not that guy. I do hope his play improves if he plays more free safety.

GameTime
06-30-2013, 12:51 PM
We overpaid, no matter what he does. We paid him like the best safety in the league. He is not that guy. I do hope his play improves if he plays more free safety.
As fans we have zero control over how much these guys get paid. In light of that fact the salaries dont bother me one bit. Thats the orgs problem not mine.
I just want to see great "effort" from every player no matter what the salary

RoanokeFan
06-30-2013, 12:52 PM
We overpaid, no matter what he does. We paid him like the best safety in the league. He is not that guy. I do hope his play improves if he plays more free safety.

You can't blame a player for what the team offers. More and more I think the combination of players in each unit is far more important than individual "stars."

jomo
06-30-2013, 12:55 PM
We overpaid, no matter what he does. We paid him like the best safety in the league. He is not that guy. I do hope his play improves if he plays more free safety.The money is kind of immaterial because that is what we are obligated for this year so I agree with you, I just want him to be the best he can be for us wherever he plays.

PS We not only paid him like he was the best safety in the league but had to add something extra to purge the pain of CC Brown, Rouse etal the previous year. Our safeties were a flat out disaster that year when Phillips never made it through camp and the misery began.

Flip Empty
06-30-2013, 12:56 PM
We overpaid, no matter what he does. We paid him like the best safety in the league. He is not that guy. I do hope his play improves if he plays more free safety.
They had to pay market price to land him. It's the restructuring that's made his contract seem even worse.

jomo
06-30-2013, 12:57 PM
You can't blame a player for what the team offers. More and more I think the combination of players in each unit is far more important than individual "stars."That career you envisioned as a players' agent needs to be put on hold. You sound like a flat out GM on the other side of the negotiating table. lol

B&RWarrior
06-30-2013, 01:22 PM
You can't blame a player for what the team offers. More and more I think the combination of players in each unit is far more important than individual "stars."

I'm not blaming him at all, but we could have spent our money wiser.

Mercury
06-30-2013, 01:23 PM
Rolle's talent compared to CC Brown's is commensurate to the money he is paid compared to the money we paid CC Brown.

RoanokeFan
06-30-2013, 01:26 PM
That career you envisioned as a players' agent needs to be put on hold. You sound like a flat out GM on the other side of the negotiating table. lol

I've been on both sides, employer is far more easy on the nerves.

jomo
06-30-2013, 01:27 PM
I'm not blaming him at all, but we could have spent our money wiser.That rear view mirror sure can be crystal clear. Understand the context of what went down that off season. We were coming off a miserable season at safety and Kenny Phillips was coming off very complicated knee surgery. We had to overhaul the safety position in a big way. The available safeties in free agency were not that great and in short supply. It was also a completely different salary cap environment where the cap dollars were growing every year. GM's had a view that they could grow into many contracts.

Enter Rolle, an all pro into that mix and you know why we paid what we did. There wasn't much choice at that moment.

GameTime
06-30-2013, 01:27 PM
I'm not blaming him at all, but we could have spent our money wiser.
thats what I mean....when it comes to players salaries its not a "we" thing. Its a Giants org thing.
Rolle was on the teans that won two SBs. If he wasnt on the team everythng would have been different and maybe those two wins dont happen.
Not saying he was soley resposible but he wa spart of the whole team. One change in the puzzle and that can or would have changed everything. Maybe for the better or maybe for the worse....:)

RoanokeFan
06-30-2013, 01:28 PM
I'm not blaming him at all, but we could have spent our money wiser.

Either we trust Reese to not overpay, which I do, or we don't. Once the contract is signed there is no script for players to follow. They get on the field and, hopefully, do the best they can.

B&RWarrior
06-30-2013, 01:29 PM
Rolle's talent compared to CC Brown's is commensurate to the money he is paid compared to the money we paid CC Brown.

Knowing what we know now I don't think he would have received that offer. He's good safety, but he doesn't have CB cover skills and in fact his safety coverage skills aren't as good as we thought.

B&RWarrior
06-30-2013, 01:33 PM
Either we trust Reese to not overpay, which I do, or we don't. Once the contract is signed there is no script for players to follow. The get on the field and, hopefully, do the best they can.

I don't trust him, at least not on defense when Reese is dealing with new free agent talent. I think we overpaid for Canty, Boley, and Rolle.

I do trust JR to resign players that have played for us and are negotiating new contracts, so I know we won't overpay Rolle again.

GameTime
06-30-2013, 01:36 PM
I don't trust him, at least not on defense when Reese is dealing with new free agent talent. I think we overpaid for Canty, Boley, and Rolle.

I do trust JR to resign players that have played for us and are negotiating new contracts, so I know we won't overpay Rolle again.

overall seems to have worked out though

B&RWarrior
06-30-2013, 01:38 PM
overall seems to have worked out though

If you're just looking at the results then Reese is flawless.

GameTime
06-30-2013, 01:41 PM
If you just looking at the results then Reese is flawless.
for me thats the bottom line. Dont care how the team got there but they got there with SB wins 2x in the last 6 seasons.

No body is flawless but why complain, other then for the sake of debate, when the desired results are attained.

jomo
06-30-2013, 01:48 PM
I don't trust him, at least not on defense when Reese is dealing with new free agent talent. I think we overpaid for Canty, Boley, and Rolle.

I do trust JR to resign players that have played for us and are negotiating new contracts, so I know we won't overpay Rolle again.I think every GM used to over pay every free agent (from another team). That is how the crazy economics of this league used to work. It has improved during this past off season but stars who blossom, especially non first rounders, in their first 4 years are going to be severely underpaid like Cruz and guys with some resume like Canty are going to be greatly overpaid. I think the new system is in the process of trimming that up, at least with regards to ordinary (non starts) free agents.

RoanokeFan
06-30-2013, 01:58 PM
I don't trust him, at least not on defense when Reese is dealing with new free agent talent. I think we overpaid for Canty, Boley, and Rolle.

I do trust JR to resign players that have played for us and are negotiating new contracts, so I know we won't overpay Rolle again.

It's easy to criticize after the fact.

DownWitJPP
06-30-2013, 02:09 PM
If you just looking at the results then Reese is flawless. what else matters besides winning championships? the numbers are for the front office people to worry about not us fans

Buddy333
06-30-2013, 02:49 PM
Lol. This guy talks more than anyone on the team but somehow gets a pass because they ask him to play more than one position. Rooting for him because he is on the team and they need him, but this guy doe a a lot of talking. Most of the big plays hat the defense Ives up seem o have him trailing the play because he bit or was lost. He needs to play a lot better no matter where they ask him to play. Don't dislike him, but he makes a ton of money and didn't play well last year. They need him to play big this year.

BlueSanta
06-30-2013, 02:52 PM
I do not agree with the notion that Rolle's natural position is a deep safety, even if Rolle himself thinks that is the case.

RoanokeFan
06-30-2013, 03:27 PM
Lol. This guy talks more than anyone on the team but somehow gets a pass because they ask him to play more than one position. Rooting for him because he is on the team and they need him, but this guy doe a a lot of talking. Most of the big plays hat the defense Ives up seem o have him trailing the play because he bit or was lost. He needs to play a lot better no matter where they ask him to play. Don't dislike him, but he makes a ton of money and didn't play well last year. They need him to play big this year.

We need them all to play big

wideright91
06-30-2013, 03:30 PM
Can we stop writing the name CC Brown? Still makes me queasy.

TheEnigma
06-30-2013, 03:37 PM
I do not agree with the notion that Rolle's natural position is a deep safety, even if Rolle himself thinks that is the case.

More of a box safety/small linebacker type of player it seems on tape. He has gone a long way since originally being drafted as a CB.

B&RWarrior
06-30-2013, 04:10 PM
It's easy to criticize after the fact.

Once yes, but 3 players you get it wrong then it's just trend analysis. I give Reese an A as GM, but defensive free agent pickups has not been his strong suit.

B&RWarrior
06-30-2013, 04:14 PM
for me thats the bottom line. Dont care how the team got there but they got there with SB wins 2x in the last 6 seasons.

No body is flawless but why complain, other then for the sake of debate, when the desired results are attained.

Going forward, I always want to see improvement in areas of weakness. I was pointing out an area that Reese and the FO can do better at. It's more than frivolous offseason talk. Teams like the Pats that are there every year and consistently a threat to go all the way don't make these blunders.

BeatYale
06-30-2013, 04:49 PM
He was drafted as a CB, but sucked in coverage so he was moved to Safety. The Giants overpaid for him as a Safety, moved him to slot CB because of injuries and realized why Arizona moved him to Safety to begin with, when he was moved back to Safety they realized he's still a liability in coverage so they moved him down to some special role and let better players (KP and Brown) play Safety.

Rolle is JR's biggest failure in regards to free agency signings. His cap hit last year was 9 million, this year it's 9.25 million, and next year it's 9.25 million. That's the only reason he's still on the team. It bothers me that this guy is a vocal leader on defense considering his play on the field is undisciplined when it comes to coverage. He would have been released by now, but the team is married to him because of the structure of his remaining contract, so it's better to swing positive stories about him in the media making up excuses for why he sucks.

bearbryant
06-30-2013, 05:20 PM
He was drafted as a CB, but sucked in coverage so he was moved to Safety. The Giants overpaid for him as a Safety, moved him to slot CB because of injuries and realized why Arizona moved him to Safety to begin with, when he was moved back to Safety they realized he's still a liability in coverage so they moved him down to some special role and let better players (KP and Brown) play Safety.

Rolle is JR's biggest failure in regards to free agency signings. His cap hit last year was 9 million, this year it's 9.25 million, and next year it's 9.25 million. That's the only reason he's still on the team. It bothers me that this guy is a vocal leader on defense considering his play on the field is undisciplined when it comes to coverage. He would have been released by now, but the team is married to him because of the structure of his remaining contract, so it's better to swing positive stories about him in the media making up excuses for why he sucks.

Absolutely, right on! We made some real $$$ blunders with the Rolle, Canty, Boley signings. It makes you think if the FO was going thru OJT. But with it all, 2 Super Bowl rings are there. Go Giants!

kNicksGiants
06-30-2013, 06:34 PM
I'm not blaming him at all, but we could have spent our money wiser.

i disagree because we got a superbowl out of it. there's no doubt in my mind he was a huge reason we won it all. for both his on the field play and leadership off.
I don't trust him, at least not on defense when Reese is dealing with new free agent talent. I think we overpaid for Canty, Boley, and Rolle.

I do trust JR to resign players that have played for us and are negotiating new contracts, so I know we won't overpay Rolle again.again, those 3 players were crucial to the giants winning a superbowl. therefore i don't consider them as being overpaid. if we never won it all with them as key contributors i would agree, but that's obviously not how it played out.

kNicksGiants
06-30-2013, 06:44 PM
He was drafted as a CB, but sucked in coverage so he was moved to Safety. The Giants overpaid for him as a Safety, moved him to slot CB because of injuries and realized why Arizona moved him to Safety to begin with, when he was moved back to Safety they realized he's still a liability in coverage so they moved him down to some special role and let better players (KP and Brown) play Safety.

Rolle is JR's biggest failure in regards to free agency signings. His cap hit last year was 9 million, this year it's 9.25 million, and next year it's 9.25 million. That's the only reason he's still on the team. It bothers me that this guy is a vocal leader on defense considering his play on the field is undisciplined when it comes to coverage. He would have been released by now, but the team is married to him because of the structure of his remaining contract, so it's better to swing positive stories about him in the media making up excuses for why he sucks.his cap hit is that high because the giants asked him to restructure his deal and he obliged. he was originally signed for 5 years 37 mil which is 7.4 per year. still a lot of money but he's not making 9 mil a year.

B&RWarrior
06-30-2013, 08:16 PM
i disagree because we got a superbowl out of it. there's no doubt in my mind he was a huge reason we won it all. for both his on the field play and leadership off.again, those 3 players were crucial to the giants winning a superbowl. therefore i don't consider them as being overpaid. if we never won it all with them as key contributors i would agree, but that's obviously not how it played out.

Just because we won a SB doesn't negate the fact that we didn't receive the value we thought we paid for at those positions. While they were on the SB winning team none of the players listed played at a level that would justify their salary level. We could have received the same level of play from cheaper players.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 12:00 AM
Kind of tough to say they didn't get a good value when they won the ultimate prize last year with those guys. Lots of FA's go on to have great careers and stats for their new team and never get a ring.

B&RWarrior
07-01-2013, 12:50 AM
Kind of tough to say they didn't get a good value when they won the ultimate prize last year with those guys. Lots of FA's go on to have great careers and stats for their new team and never get a ring.

A ring doesn't mean you played to the level of your pay it means you were part of a winning team. They put it together at the end, but the contract they signed isn't for playoff games. It's for regular season performance, and in that respect all 3 severely underperformed.

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 01:16 AM
good read.....thanks Ro.
It woudl be great to see him at his natural position where he can just "play" instead of think so to speak.
The better part of that scenario is that if he can just play saftey then the Giants have three healthy and capable CBs available all the time. Havent had that in a while...theres truth to that. during that epic 6 game run on the way to the SB, Rolle along with maybe every player even of the secondary were talking about how they could finally JUST PLAY. IIRC, it even started with that GB loss where Rolle had an INT and Tuck displayed some moments of actually being tuck.

the reason i say this, because something would have to be happening where he cant "just play" when he's actually had FS responsibilities. Some of his downfield coverage and angles have been just so terrible that at times I wondered how a pro player could take such a horrible angle. If he's this Pro Bowl/All Pro FS, he had opportunities to display said game ability and didnt deliver imho. maybe this yr, since he wont be mixing roles/responsibilities, he can "just play"?

appodictic
07-01-2013, 03:07 AM
He is a tough player, very good player who puts team ahead of self. I'm not sure he's quite worth what we are paying in today's NFL but there is a reason why we paid him so handsomely at the start of his contract.

He is very good. Do you remember cc brown. Rolle can come to the line of scrimmage and make tackles, and he can cover. Rolle JPP Brown and prince are the ONLY three good players on our defence. Rolle is easily the most versatile.

giantscolombia
07-01-2013, 09:08 AM
Can we stop writing the name CC Brown? Still makes me queasy.
Where is CC Brown anyways? haha
I remember he talked garbage about the Giants a season after we let him go...

I think he is one of the worst players I have ever seen.

Kruunch
07-01-2013, 09:40 AM
Blah blah blah we've heard this before from Rolle.

Someone buy him a TomTom so he knows where he's supposed to be on a given play. :rolleyes:

Mercury
07-01-2013, 09:43 AM
When you go out and make "Sexy" Free Agent acquisitions, you overpay. I think JR learned his lesson from it. He's been cap-strapped for years because of Canty, Rolle, and Boley. Of the three, at least Rolle was playing hard last year, (though not necessarily always well.) The other two simply cashed in last year. Furthermore, Rolle is as close to a leader on the defense as we have.

Imgrate
07-01-2013, 09:53 AM
Rolle is a much different player in NY than he was in AZ. He returned multiple picks for TDs. He was a bigplay guy. Now, he's an in the box type guy and may be the most physical player on our defense.

Rush4Blitz2
07-01-2013, 10:01 AM
Rolle needs to get back to form. He has declined over the past 2 seasons as a natural playmaker and I know people will say it's because he's playing out of position but a true footbal player would never use that as an excuse.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 10:04 AM
What makes him such a good leader?

GameTime
07-01-2013, 10:28 AM
What makes him such a good leader?
hasnt missed a game and is on the field for most of the plays during a game.
speaks honestly to the media and IMO hasnt ever said anything "bad"...
also he is a very good player for the Gmen.

speedman
07-01-2013, 10:42 AM
Just because we won a SB doesn't negate the fact that we didn't receive the value we thought we paid for at those positions. While they were on the SB winning team none of the players listed played at a level that would justify their salary level. We could have received the same level of play from cheaper players.Name the cheaper players that were available at those positions at that time.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 10:42 AM
Eh, seems like he is always trailing a play. Can't break down film like some but have seen enough games where a huge play has been made on the defense and the announcers have said he was at fault. Don't dislike the guy, but it seems like people fall for this "swag" thing to much. If Tuck goes out to a charity event and they ask him how he is doing people say he talks to much. When Rolle says things will get better next week he is a leader even though they don't?

GameTime
07-01-2013, 12:55 PM
Eh, seems like he is always trailing a play. Can't break down film like some but have seen enough games where a huge play has been made on the defense and the announcers have said he was at fault. Don't dislike the guy, but it seems like people fall for this "swag" thing to much. If Tuck goes out to a charity event and they ask him how he is doing people say he talks to much. When Rolle says things will get better next week he is a leader even though they don't?

I agree....but I think Rolle doesnt or didnt trust some of the guys playing in front of him and would "do too much" thus getting late on down field plays.
Numerous times he said that we all just need to do "our" jobs and trust the other 10- players to do theirs.

MattMeyerBud
07-01-2013, 01:06 PM
We overpaid, no matter what he does. We paid him like the best safety in the league. He is not that guy. I do hope his play improves if he plays more free safety.

corners get paid more than safetys

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 02:42 PM
I agree....but I think Rolle doesnt or didnt trust some of the guys playing in front of him and would "do too much" thus getting late on down field plays. Numerous times he said that we all just need to do "our" jobs and trust the other 10- players to do theirs.Yeah but maybe he needs to take his own advise. For example, not that it hurt them, but last year against the 49ers the only big play they connected on was when Rolle was out of position. Other times it seems like Webster is letting his man go thinking he has help and no one is there.

GameTime
07-01-2013, 03:02 PM
Yeah but maybe he needs to take his own advise. For example, not that it hurt them, but last year against the 49ers the only big play they connected on was when Rolle was out of position. Other times it seems like Webster is letting his man go thinking he has help and no one is there.

Thats what I meant but didnt really say it.........Rolle says these things and I believe he includes himself for sure.

appodictic
07-02-2013, 01:10 AM
Rolle is a top talent. The best players on the giants D are JPP, Prince, Rolle and Brown, other then that everyone else played bad. Yes Rolle got a big contract but he has skills. He tackles better then any linebacker we had and covers better then webster.