PDA

View Full Version : NFL.com will post most underrated/overrated giants tomorrow..what are your choices?



BigBlue wins
07-01-2013, 02:28 PM
Overrated? I'm going with Justin Tuck as among one of them

Underrated? Eli Manning I'm picking for among under rated

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 02:44 PM
How can Tuck be overrated? Who is saying that he is a force? Hoping he has a great season and makes people eat their words, but his last 2 seasons where not that good and he has admitted it.

RolleN N CruzN
07-01-2013, 02:48 PM
Most Underrated: Antrel Rolle
Most Overrated: David Diehl

BigBlue wins
07-01-2013, 02:50 PM
How can Tuck be overrated? Who is saying that he is a force? Hoping he has a great season and makes people eat their words, but his last 2 seasons where not that good and he has admitted it.

He's captain of the Defense still with his decline as of late. You don't need anyone to state anything. If he's captain of the D, he's considered high regard by the coaches, right?

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 02:50 PM
Who is saying that Diehl is a great player on this team? Locker room guy yeah, but Beatty is the best OL on this team.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 02:52 PM
When was the last time a guy was demoted as captain of his team? Serious question. Don't remember hearing it happen and usually captains are veterans and veterans get older and go on the decline. You need to be rated highly to be considered over rated no?

BigBlue wins
07-01-2013, 02:55 PM
When was the last time a guy was demoted as captain of his team? Serious question. Don't remember hearing it happen and usually captains are veterans and veterans get older and go on the decline. You need to be rated highly to be considered over rated no?

Tuck's still playing. I think that most people believe he will have a better year, but I think his good years are behind him.

GameTime
07-01-2013, 02:56 PM
by whom....??

the fans or their peers

drewz
07-01-2013, 02:57 PM
Is it just one?

Overrated:

1) David Diehl
2) Antrel Rolle
3) Justin Tuck

Underrated:

Will Beatty

Eliscruzzz
07-01-2013, 02:58 PM
It's gotta be Kerry Collins for me as most underrated

and right now I'm going to say Steve Smith as the most overrated.

BigBlue wins
07-01-2013, 03:01 PM
by whom....??

the fans or their peers

You know, I'm not really sure..Im guessing fans

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 03:04 PM
Most overrated: Justin Tuck. Used to be great, now he's not, but plays every down anyway. How about rotating some fresh bodies off the bench? Isn't that what we did in our last Superbowl run? Whoever they bring in is not going to be much worse.

Most underrated: Stevie Brown. "He's just lucky." "He never did anything his first 2 years." "He can't cover". "Stevie Brown gave up as many plays as he made." What a bunch of bull caca. We were 6-10 without him last year, maybe worse.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:09 PM
Again, Tuck has not been great the past 2 seasons. Who is saying he is going to be so good this year? You need to have people saying he is going to be good or great to say he is being over rated. You can not be over rated when most consider you on the decline.

Eliscruzzz
07-01-2013, 03:10 PM
Most overrated: Justin Tuck. Used to be great, now he's not, but plays every down anyway. How about rotating some fresh bodies off the bench? Isn't that what we did in our last Superbowl run? Whoever they bring in is not going to be much worse.

Most underrated: Stevie Brown. "He's just lucky." "He never did anything his first 2 years." "He can't cover". What a bunch of bull caca. We were 6-10 without him last year, maybe worse.Stevie Brown gave up as many plays as he made.

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 03:10 PM
Overrated: Justin Tuck. Underrated: Andre Brown.

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 03:10 PM
Again, Tuck has not been great the past 2 seasons. Who is saying he is going to be so good this year? You need to have people saying he is going to be good or great to say he is being over rated. You can not be over rated when most consider you on the decline.

What part of "plays every down anyway" don't you get?

Morehead State
07-01-2013, 03:11 PM
Overrated: Eli Manning
Underrated: Eli Manning

Morehead has spoken.

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 03:11 PM
Stevie Brown gave up as many plays as he made.

Thank you, I will add that to my post.

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 03:12 PM
Crap, I forgot Webster, oh well.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:12 PM
What part of "plays every down anyway" don't you get?How does that make him over rated? You need to be rated highly to be considered over rated. Most would say he is on the decline and are hoping he can make a come back this year. That is not over rated.

Eliscruzzz
07-01-2013, 03:13 PM
Thank you, I will add that to my post.lol it's true man.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:13 PM
Overrated: Eli ManningUnderrated: Eli ManningMorehead has spoken.This should be interesting.

Eliscruzzz
07-01-2013, 03:13 PM
Overrated: Eli Manning
Underrated: Eli Manning

Morehead has spoken.oh God here we go...someone will bite on this.

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 03:14 PM
How does that make him over rated? You need to be rated highly to be considered over rated. Most would say he is on the decline and are hoping he can make a come back this year. That is not over rated.

Because the coaches still think he's got it.

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 03:15 PM
I think Buddy is secretly Justin Tuck.

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 03:17 PM
I think Buddy is secretly Justin Tuck.

Good, maybe he'll play better now.

Morehead State
07-01-2013, 03:18 PM
CBS sports has Justin Tuck as the most overrated. (of course Osi isn't here anymore, that award should be called the Osi Umenyiora Trophy))
And Brandon Myers as the most underrated.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:21 PM
Because the coaches still think he's got it.How does that make him over rated and how does that mean they still think he has it? They too are hoping he will rebound. What two time Super Bowl winning captain of a team has had his status as captain taken away? Serious question.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:24 PM
I think Buddy is secretly Justin Tuck.He has not said anything wrong but gets trashed for talking to much. He himself admits that he has not played well, and no one has said he is a force for this team to have him considered over rated. What guy on the defense do people think will be good this year? That's the guy that can be over rated. Not a guy who has not been good for 2 years with the exception o the post season.

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 03:24 PM
How does that make him over rated and how does that mean they still think he has it? They too are hoping he will rebound. What two time Super Bowl winning captain of a team has had his status as captain taken away? Serious question.Easy, Justin Tuck.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:25 PM
CBS sports has Justin Tuck as the most overrated. (of course Osi isn't here anymore, that award should be called the Osi Umenyiora Trophy))And Brandon Myers as the most underrated.The Myers thing makes more sense. Played with a bad team and still had old numbers. What can he do with a good team that has more offensive talent?

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 03:25 PM
He has not said anything wrong but gets trashed for talking to much. He himself admits that he has not played well, and no one has said he is a force for this team to have him considered over rated. What guy on the defense do people think will be good this year? That's the guy that can be over rated. Not a guy who has not been good for 2 years with the exception o the post season.He's overrated because he was still playing despite sucking tremendously.

Morehead State
07-01-2013, 03:25 PM
How does that make him over rated and how does that mean they still think he has it? They too are hoping he will rebound. What two time Super Bowl winning captain of a team has had his status as captain taken away? Serious question.
Its not complicated. Many think he's still an All Pro type DE, but his play recently hasn't been close to that.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:26 PM
Easy, Justin Tuck.How is that wrong?

TheEnigma
07-01-2013, 03:27 PM
It's an all time list so I'm going to guess this from a general sports writer position.

Overrated - Bill Parcells, Steve Smith, Shaun O'Hara, Jason Sehorn, Michael Strahan OR Eli Manning (for shock value)

Underrated - Y.A. Tittle, Rodney Hampton, Roosevelt Brown, Mark Collins, Leonard Marshall OR Pepper Johnson (Could be someone from the modern era too. Maybe Eli but it depends on the writer.)

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:27 PM
Its not complicated. Many think he's still an All Pro type DE, but his play recently hasn't been close to that.Who? Seriously, have not seen anyone consider him a top player at his position for a while. Maybe two years ago, but not last year and no way this year.

Buddy333
07-01-2013, 03:30 PM
He's overrated because he was still playing despite sucking tremendously.Lots of guys play through a decline and are considered to be on the decline. That does not make them over rated. That makes no sense. You need to be rated highly to be considered over rated. He probably would not make a top 20 list now. He's not even considered the best DE on his team.

dakotajoe
07-01-2013, 03:31 PM
The NFL.com overrated/underrated list is for retired and ex players in addition to current players.

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 03:33 PM
The NFL.com overrated/underrated list is for retired and ex players in addition to current players.

Justin Tuck still wins.

speedman
07-01-2013, 03:37 PM
If we are talking about the last year or two I'm surprised no one has picked Snee for overrated.

speedman
07-01-2013, 03:39 PM
It's an all time list so I'm going to guess this from a general sports writer position.Overrated - Bill Parcells, Steve Smith, Shaun O'Hara, Jason Sehorn, Michael Strahan OR Eli Manning (for shock value)Underrated - Y.A. Tittle, Rodney Hampton, Roosevelt Brown, Mark Collins, Leonard Marshall OR Pepper Johnson (Could be someone from the modern era too. Maybe Eli but it depends on the writer.)How is Rosey Brown underrated? I think he was all pro 9 or 10 times.

TheEnigma
07-01-2013, 03:42 PM
How is Rosey Brown underrated? I think he was all pro 9 or 10 times.

Anthony Munoz is on the Bengals underrated list and he was an all pro 9 times. Remember, these lists are for everyone to see and I'm sure most people outside the Giants fanbase wouldn't know who he is.

Morehead State
07-01-2013, 03:43 PM
I assume this list is based only on current players.

Morehead State
07-01-2013, 03:43 PM
Anthony Munoz is on the Bengals underrated list and he was an all pro 9 times. Remember, these lists are for everyone to see and I'm sure most people outside the Giants fanbase wouldn't know who he is.

Plus he was great in "The Right Stuff".

GameTime
07-01-2013, 03:44 PM
another list created to cause debate and arguements. All subjective for sure....

BigBlue wins
07-01-2013, 03:46 PM
It's an all time list so I'm going to guess this from a general sports writer position.

Overrated - Bill Parcells, Steve Smith, Shaun O'Hara, Jason Sehorn, Michael Strahan OR Eli Manning (for shock value)

Underrated - Y.A. Tittle, Rodney Hampton, Roosevelt Brown, Mark Collins, Leonard Marshall OR Pepper Johnson (Could be someone from the modern era too. Maybe Eli but it depends on the writer.)

Dave Jennings can be added to that underrated list

Sehorn? hmm..this is a curious debate- I think he either makes it or is just not mentioned as overrated

Besides that- I can see all of these making them

BigBlue wins
07-01-2013, 03:47 PM
I assume this list is based only on current players.

It's not- The list can be former and current players.

Morehead State
07-01-2013, 03:55 PM
It's not- The list can be former and current players.
If that's true then who cares.

TheAnalyst
07-01-2013, 04:10 PM
Overrated - Snee, Nicks (because of injury), maybe Stevie Brown (we will see this year)?
Underrated - Boothe, Joseph, Kiwi

speedman
07-01-2013, 04:39 PM
Dave Jennings can be added to that underrated listSehorn? hmm..this is a curious debate- I think he either makes it or is just not mentioned as overratedBesides that- I can see all of these making themHow could Sehorn be overrated he married Angie Harmon.

kfelgigiants
07-01-2013, 04:44 PM
Lol

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 04:45 PM
How could Sehorn be overrated he married Angie Harmon.

Hard to argue with this

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 04:47 PM
How is Rosey Brown underrated? I think he was all pro 9 or 10 times.

He dropped a stitch now and then :rolleyes:

giantscolombia
07-01-2013, 04:51 PM
Most Underrated: Antrel Rolle
Most Overrated: David Diehl

WHAT!!??!!?!?

how is Rolle underrated? His salary alone makes him overrated...

Providence
07-01-2013, 04:52 PM
I don't know who makes these picks, but I doubt it's peers or fans. It's probably just the musings of one or two NFL.com "writers." In other words, don't take the list that seriously.

Nevertheless, this is still an interesting topic. From what I have seen on the overrated/underrated articles they do a combination of players currently on the roster and those that once played for the franchise.

Here's two that jump to mind. I am sure I will think of more....

Overrated-
Brandon Jacobs- ("The battering ram, "The bulldozer," "The Juggernaut" blah, blah. blah. Look, I loved Jacobs and he was indeed a monster to tackle IF he got beyond the line of scrimmage. If he went passed the line of scrimmage he was Earl Campbell (hence all this awesome highlights). However, if he got slowed, tripped up, or even slightly indecisive behind the line there was no recovery. He was Ron Dayne behind the line of scrimmage. I said it over and over again when both were on the team and I'll say it now, if it's 3rd and a yard I'll put my money on Bradshaw to pick up over Jacobs eight days a week. With all that said, I did love having Jacobs because when he busted lose he punished LBers and DB's and he was a great change up with Bradshaw. But at the end of the day Jacobs was held in too high a regard when he was here.


Underrated-
Carl Banks- It's hard to grab tons of praise when you're playing with LT. Banks was able to do a lot of things on the field and he never got the credit he deserved in my opinion.

giantscolombia
07-01-2013, 04:54 PM
Underrated- Ahmad Bradshaw

Overrated- Rolle

dakotajoe
07-01-2013, 05:28 PM
Underrated - Tiki Barber

Overrated - Antonio Pierce

jax5338
07-01-2013, 05:40 PM
Overrated: Tuck
Underrated: Hynoski

Antwuan
07-01-2013, 05:44 PM
Steve Weatherford For Underrated? Anyone?

Providence
07-01-2013, 07:30 PM
Steve Weatherford For Underrated? Anyone?

He's absolutely underrated. He is excellent and we forget how scared we all were (or should have been) when Feagles left. The dude sets up our defense nice almost every time. I still think he deserved way more praise for his punt on the opening drive of SB 46 (without such great placement Brady doesn't throw the intentional grounding in the end zone resulting in the safety).....

ryan12
07-02-2013, 10:28 AM
curent players
under joseph/hyno/prince
over web/tuck/rolle

former
under jonas seawright
over ron dayne

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:37 AM
curent players
under joseph/hyno/prince
over web/tuck/rolle

former
under jonas seawright
over ron dayne

For the record...I think Prince is definitely the most underrated player on our team.
Osi is the retired champ at overrated so I guess I have to go with Eli.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 10:39 AM
For the record...I think Prince is definitely the most underrated player on our team.
Osi is the retired champ at overrated so I guess I have to go with Eli.
Eli is overrated by whom??
just as many fans think he's not that great as do think he is great.
he was ranked 43rd out of hundred

how is either overrated???

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:40 AM
Eli is overrated by whom??
just as many fans think he's not that great as do think he is great.
he was ranked 43rd out of hundred

how is either overrated???

That didn't take long.......

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:42 AM
And I would qualify my view by saying the he is overrated only by some folks.

I promise you.......that's the last I'm saying about it.

NYGabriel
07-02-2013, 10:42 AM
That didn't take long.......

You're like the Skip Bayless of the giants mb. You can't really believe half of the things you type.

memfist.ten
07-02-2013, 10:45 AM
overrated: cruz
underrated: eli

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:45 AM
You're like the Skip Bayless of the giants mb. You can't really believe half of the things you type.
You happen to be one of the "folks" I was talking about.

ryan12
07-02-2013, 10:46 AM
saying eli is overrated is a joke.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:47 AM
saying eli is overrated is a joke.
When a poster says that they would rather have Eli than Rodgers....do you consider that "overrating" our QB?

ryan12
07-02-2013, 10:47 AM
overrated: cruz
underrated: eli

check cruz's stats for the past 2 years and compare them to the best wr in nfl and then come back and apologize for saying that. cruz is a top tier wr in the nfl

ryan12
07-02-2013, 10:49 AM
When a poster says that they would rather have Eli than Rodgers....do you consider that "overrating" our QB?

i call it being loyal. rodgers is WAY better then eli that being said i would take eli over rodgers anyday. just not in fantasy football lol

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:50 AM
check cruz's stats for the past 2 years and compare them to the best wr in nfl and then come back and apologize for saying that. cruz is a top tier wr in the nfl
He's very good,,,,hardly overrated, but he may be about to be "overpaid".

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:51 AM
i call it being loyal. rodgers is WAY better then eli that being said i would take eli over rodgers anyday. just not in fantasy football lol
As I said...I qualified my opinion by saying he was overrated by "some" folks.
In general, he is understood around the league for what he is. In some circles here however, its a little over the top.

EliDaMANning
07-02-2013, 10:52 AM
i call it being loyal. rodgers is WAY better then eli that being said i would take eli over rodgers anyday. just not in fantasy football lolHe hasn't been up to par with Eli in their last two matchups.

NYGabriel
07-02-2013, 10:52 AM
You happen to be one of the "folks" I was talking about.

I don't over rate Eli. I think he is what he is. Great but too inconsistent. You do seem to always be taking a pop at him though. Plus you were saying Cruz only deserved $5m a year or something in that ball park. Kind of skip Bayless-ish.

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 10:53 AM
Most overrated by Giants fans : William Joseph, Eli Manning,

Most overrated by other NFL fans: Justin Tuck, Victor Cruz, Antrel Rolle

Most Underrated by Giants fans: Chase Blackburn, David Deihl ** Giants fans almost never underrate anybody.

Most Underrated by NFL fans: Hakeem Nicks, Hynocerous,

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 10:54 AM
I don't over rate Eli. I think he is what he is. Great but too inconsistent. You do seem to always be taking a pop at him though. Plus you were saying Cruz only deserved $5m a year or something in that ball park. Kind of skip Bayless-ish.

"Great" players are never too inconsistent, that means there just good.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 10:56 AM
And I would qualify my view by saying the he is overrated only by some folks.

I promise you.......that's the last I'm saying about it.

most very good players are overrated by "some folks"...
come on MH.....

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 11:01 AM
He hasn't been up to par with Eli in their last two matchups.

Eli has faced a worse defense in both match ups.

memfist.ten
07-02-2013, 11:03 AM
check cruz's stats for the past 2 years and compare them to the best wr in nfl and then come back and apologize for saying that. cruz is a top tier wr in the nfl
More of a product of Eli--check Steve smith's stats--when he was healthy and they seem similar, w/o all the drops... w/o Nicks, Cruz- 11 games under 70 yards. He is a legit red zone threat, but not a #1. He's not a top ten wide out??

nhpgiantsfan
07-02-2013, 11:06 AM
For the record...I think Prince is definitely the most underrated player on our team.
Osi is the retired champ at overrated so I guess I have to go with Eli.

I get it, nobody likes Osi, and I won't defend him anymore. It is what it is. But did you think Osi was overrated when he had 10 FF's in 2010. Or when he had 13 sacks in our 2007 SB season. I understand Osi declined his last two seasons here and that his contract saga left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but for about 5 years he was a top pass rusher in this league. I wouldn't call him overrated.

JAYPEE
07-02-2013, 11:08 AM
The list is of all-time, not just current players.

Underrated: Toomer, Phillips, Seubert

Overrated: Tuck, Pierce, Diehl

Having read the lists, wouldn't be surprised if they have Strahan as overrated and Hostetler as underrated. They like to put players on overrated list who declined over the last few years, but are still HOF material, and underrated players who had a few really big games.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 11:10 AM
When a poster says that they would rather have Eli than Rodgers....do you consider that "overrating" our QB?
you said "some folks"...
just because some may overrate him doesnt mean he is overated in general

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 11:11 AM
More of a product of Eli--check Steve smith's stats--when he was healthy and they seem similar, w/o all the drops... w/o Nicks, Cruz- 11 games under 70 yards. He is a legit red zone threat, but not a #1. He's not a top ten wide out??

How does Eli get the credit? SS was a good receiver in his own right, as is Cruz. SS was productive his rookie year. We drafted a good receiver. If Cruz's success is a product of Eli then Cruz's numbers shouldn't have fell when Nicks was hurt. The best thing Cruz does is YAC, which has nothing to do with Eli.

memfist.ten
07-02-2013, 11:11 AM
I get it, nobody likes Osi, and I won't defend him anymore. It is what it is. But did you think Osi was overrated when he had 10 FF's in 2010. Or when he had 13 sacks in our 2007 SB season. I understand Osi declined his last two seasons here and that his contract saga left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but for about 5 years he was a top pass rusher in this league. I wouldn't call him overrated.
Winstin Justice had a lot to do with 07 pro bowl. lol but Osi Was my guy.

memfist.ten
07-02-2013, 11:24 AM
How does Eli get the credit? SS was a good receiver in his own right, as is Cruz. SS was productive his rookie year. We drafted a good receiver. If Cruz's success is a product of Eli then Cruz's numbers shouldn't have fell when Nicks was hurt. The best thing Cruz does is YAC, which has nothing to do with Eli.

Yea I forgot about the YAC--he is a beast--I'm not taking nothing from Cruz though, he is 1 of the better if not the best slot. But his first year as the top wr, w/Nicks hurt & Mario gone, he struggled more than I expected with drops and it seemed like he struggled to get open at crucial times in the biggest games.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 12:47 PM
most very good players are overrated by "some folks"...
come on MH.....
So you admit I'm right.....

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 12:47 PM
I get it, nobody likes Osi, and I won't defend him anymore. It is what it is. But did you think Osi was overrated when he had 10 FF's in 2010. Or when he had 13 sacks in our 2007 SB season. I understand Osi declined his last two seasons here and that his contract saga left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but for about 5 years he was a top pass rusher in this league. I wouldn't call him overrated.
Yes, yes and yes.

Providence
07-02-2013, 12:48 PM
They posted the list. I can't believe ROn Dayne made the overrated list. Who the hell gave him any credit for anything, ever? You have to be rated to be overrated. Dayne was horrific.

Looks like I called the Brandon Jacobs one right, sadly. Still no mention of Banks in the underrated group, that's a shame.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000212159/article/new-york-giants-alltime-underrated-overrated-players

EliDaMANning
07-02-2013, 12:52 PM
Eli Manning (http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/profile) -- QB, 2004-present
Hands down, Manning is the greatest New York Giants (http://boards.giants.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG) quarterback ever. Fans don't give Eli enough credit for what he's accomplished in his nine seasons. He's already brought home two world championships, one against one of the greatest team in NFL history. Manning already has thrown for more touchdowns and fewer interceptions than Phil Simms. This season, Manning will most likely surpass Simms as the Giants (http://boards.giants.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG) all-time leader in passing yards, and solidify his spot as the greatest quarterback in franchise history. For some reason, the perception that Eli Manning (http://boards.giants.com/player/elimanning/2505996/profile) is not an elite quarterback still exists, and that makes him underrated.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 12:55 PM
Eli Manning (http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/profile) -- QB, 2004-present
Hands down, Manning is the greatest New York Giants (http://boards.giants.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG) quarterback ever. Fans don't give Eli enough credit for what he's accomplished in his nine seasons. He's already brought home two world championships, one against one of the greatest team in NFL history. Manning already has thrown for more touchdowns and fewer interceptions than Phil Simms. This season, Manning will most likely surpass Simms as the Giants (http://boards.giants.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG) all-time leader in passing yards, and solidify his spot as the greatest quarterback in franchise history. For some reason, the perception that Eli Manning (http://boards.giants.com/player/elimanning/2505996/profile) is not an elite quarterback still exists, and that makes him underrated.


Why do you think that is?

Eliscruzzz
07-02-2013, 12:55 PM
Eli has faced a worse defense in both match ups.That is false, our defense was just as bad. Ours just showed up both games.

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 12:57 PM
Most Underrated: Antrel Rolle
Most Overrated: David Diehl

I think you have that backwards.

TheEnigma
07-02-2013, 12:58 PM
They posted the list. I can't believe ROn Dayne made the overrated list. Who the hell gave him any credit for anything, ever? You have to be rated to be overrated. Dayne was horrific.

Looks like I called the Brandon Jacobs one right, sadly. Still no mention of Banks in the underrated group, that's a shame.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000212159/article/new-york-giants-alltime-underrated-overrated-players

Well I got Sehorn right at least. Ashame that such a storied franchise doesn't have more old time players on this list. The overrated section has too many modern players imo.

BigBlue wins
07-02-2013, 01:07 PM
nm...thx for posting link

GameTime
07-02-2013, 01:09 PM
Eli Manning (http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/profile) -- QB, 2004-present
Hands down, Manning is the greatest New York Giants (http://boards.giants.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG) quarterback ever. Fans don't give Eli enough credit for what he's accomplished in his nine seasons. He's already brought home two world championships, one against one of the greatest team in NFL history. Manning already has thrown for more touchdowns and fewer interceptions than Phil Simms. This season, Manning will most likely surpass Simms as the Giants (http://boards.giants.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG) all-time leader in passing yards, and solidify his spot as the greatest quarterback in franchise history. For some reason, the perception that Eli Manning (http://boards.giants.com/player/elimanning/2505996/profile) is not an elite quarterback still exists, and that makes him underrated.
Just because he has better stats then Simms doesnt mean he is elite.
So why does Eli an "individual" get praise from you whhen you say he beat a "team".
The Giants won those two recent SBs not Eli alone. Just like the other SBs the Giants teams have won

TheEnigma
07-02-2013, 01:12 PM
Parcells received the 'overrated' tag on the Dolphins list.

EliDaMANning
07-02-2013, 01:25 PM
Why do you think that is?I am just quoting the article.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 01:26 PM
I am just quoting the article.
So.....Why do you think that is?
Why do you think Eli is the source of such disagreement?

dakotajoe
07-02-2013, 01:27 PM
More of a product of Eli--check Steve smith's stats--when he was healthy and they seem similar, w/o all the drops...

Their stats aren't similar at all. Plaxico and Nick's stats are far more comparable. Eli had his best season by far with Cruz in the lineup. I don't know why you'd call a receiver a "product of the system" when Eli had an abnormally good season with Cruz in the lineup. As much as it pains me to say about about a two time SB-MVP it seems like Nicks and Cruz help Eli produce just as much as Eli helps Nicks and Cruz produce.

Smith's best two years of his career: 1794 yards 8 TDs.
Cruz's last two years: 2628 yards 19 TDs.

Also, Smith didn't receive the level of coverage Cruz did because of Plaxico and Cruz's stats still blow Smith's out of the water.

Providence
07-02-2013, 01:30 PM
Well I got Sehorn right at least. Ashame that such a storied franchise doesn't have more old time players on this list. The overrated section has too many modern players imo.
Agreed. These lists are dominated by what people remember watching live. Very few people even consider folks that they have only seen highlight reels of, let alone players they never saw much footage of.

Giantz4Life
07-02-2013, 01:36 PM
"With the Giants' current absence of a return game, every fan would love to have a guy like Meggett on the squad."

I wouldn't say there is an absence of a return game as David Wilson was electrifying at certain points last season. Bit of an exaggeration, no? Or is the writer saying that because Wilson may not field kick returns this season due to his emergence in the run game?

thomsoad
07-02-2013, 01:40 PM
I know im gonna get busted on for this...
But most underrated IMHO is Elvis "Toast" Patterson.
Im not saying he is Pro Bowl talent but the guy did manage to stay in the league for 10 years.
Im sorry...but you cant suck THAT BAD and play the secondary for 10 years in the NFL.
Just doesnt happen.

Providence
07-02-2013, 01:45 PM
I know im gonna get busted on for this...
But most underrated IMHO is Elvis "Toast" Patterson.
Im not saying he is Pro Bowl talent but the guy did manage to stay in the league for 10 years.
Im sorry...but you cant suck THAT BAD and play the secondary for 10 years in the NFL.
Just doesnt happen.

You make a good point.

AllHailEli
07-02-2013, 01:52 PM
Why do you think that is?

Because he always played in the shadows of Peyton and he plays under the intense glare of the New York spotlight. I do believe that some fans did not like the trade for Eli Manning and felt themselves justified after his first few years in the league. The 2 Super Bowls would not easily sway those fans from their initial opinion of him because they held it for too long. The ironic part is that if this was Dan Marino or Jim Kelly in NY without winning a single Super Bowl, they'd be doubly criticized, stats and records be damned. Ask Patrick Ewing.

People gripe that most fans would pick Eli over anybody else, but picking Eli in some cases is well justified. I doubt anyone would want to be in the shoes of the Patriots fan during the 2008 and 2012 Super Bowls with Tom Brady, nor anyone would like to switch places with a Green Bay fan when they lost the playoffs at 15-1 with Aaron Rodgers at the helm. Fans are fickle and sometimes spoiled and in some cases think it's greener on the other side when in fact, it's hardly the case. Stats and records are great only if there's a championship along with it. Otherwise, you can find a flaw and something to criticize with any great player and you don't even have to look really hard for it. Even with Peyton Manning who's been criticized for his postseason failures.

keyofgmen
07-02-2013, 01:53 PM
Underrated: Beatty
Overrated: Rolle

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:21 PM
Because he always played in the shadows of Peyton and he plays under the intense glare of the New York spotlight. I do believe that some fans did not like the trade for Eli Manning and felt themselves justified after his first few years in the league. The 2 Super Bowls would not easily sway those fans from their initial opinion of him because they held it for too long. The ironic part is that if this was Dan Marino or Jim Kelly in NY without winning a single Super Bowl, they'd be doubly criticized, stats and records be damned. Ask Patrick Ewing.

People gripe that most fans would pick Eli over anybody else, but picking Eli in some cases is well justified. I doubt anyone would want to be in the shoes of the Patriots fan during the 2008 and 2012 Super Bowls with Tom Brady, nor anyone would like to switch places with a Green Bay fan when they lost the playoffs at 15-1 with Aaron Rodgers at the helm. Fans are fickle and sometimes spoiled and in some cases think it's greener on the other side when in fact, it's hardly the case. Stats and records are great only if there's a championship along with it. Otherwise, you can find a flaw and something to criticize with any great player and you don't even have to look really hard for it. Even with Peyton Manning who's been criticized for his postseason failures.
Giants fans couldn't care less about being anyone's brother.
The reason he is the subject of such disagreement is that no QB, who has accomplished as much as Eli can look so aweful when he's not playing well.
Its not inconsistency. Its downright "Jeckyl and Hyde".
You shouldn't have to wonder which Eli is going to show up. Its not just "bad days"....Its much. much worse.
So when "good Eli" shows up its all roses and chocolates. When "bad Eli" shows up its a nightmare.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 02:25 PM
Giants fans couldn't care less about being anyone's brother.
The reason he is the subject of such disagreement is that no QB, who has accomplished as much as Eli can look so aweful when he's not playing well.
Its not inconsistency. Its downright "Jeckyl and Hyde".
You shouldn't have to wonder which Eli is going to show up. Its not just "bad days"....Its much. much worse.
So when "good Eli" shows up its all roses and chocolates. When "bad Eli" shows up its a nightmare.
I agree....he is great and then yuo wonder if he can be that great why does he look so bad at times. very frustrating.
However.....he is great at the right times usually and it has worked out.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:37 PM
I agree....he is great and then yuo wonder if he can be that great why does he look so bad at times. very frustrating.
However.....he is great at the right times usually and it has worked out.
Its worked out just fine but the frustration level has been very high at times.
And I don't want to think about how much time has been taken from my life over the agita.

speedman
07-02-2013, 02:39 PM
Its worked out just fine but the frustration level has been very high at times.
And I don't want to think about how much time has been taken from my life over the agita.What QB"s would you trade Eli even up for?

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:42 PM
What QB"s would you trade Eli even up for?
I don't want to trade Eli even up for anyone.
He's our QB.
The guy just drives me nuts.....that's all.

speedman
07-02-2013, 02:45 PM
I don't want to trade Eli even up for anyone.
He's our QB.
The guy just drives me nuts.....that's all.Then don't let it get to you. Take the good with the bad. There"s more good anyway.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:45 PM
Then don't let it get to you. Take the good with the bad. There"s more good anyway.
I live and breath on every play.

Sorry......No can do!

speedman
07-02-2013, 02:55 PM
I live and breath on every play.

Sorry......No can do!When I see the players laughing, joking and hugging the other team after a loss I can't take it that seriously.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:55 PM
When I see the players laughing, joking and hugging the other team after a loss I can't take it that seriously.
Ralph ****** Brown!!!

GameTime
07-02-2013, 02:57 PM
Its worked out just fine but the frustration level has been very high at times.
And I don't want to think about how much time has been taken from my life over the agita.

the Giants have ALWAYS given me agita....pre Eli, during Eli, and no doubt post Eli.
being a die hard fan of any team and you will have agita....goes with the territory

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:08 PM
the Giants have ALWAYS given me agita....pre Eli, during Eli, and no doubt post Eli.
being a die hard fan of any team and you will have agita....goes with the territory
Well in this case there is additional agita because there is always the "what the hell were you thinking Eli!!!" factor.
I knew what KC was. I liked him a lot but he was flawed. If you give him time he can deliver the ball anywhere. If he gets hit, his eyes get as big as saucers and we were all in trouble.
I still can't figure Eli out.

Providence
07-02-2013, 03:32 PM
Its worked out just fine but the frustration level has been very high at times.
And I don't want to think about how much time has been taken from my life over the agita.

Ha ha ha. Excellent use of the word agita.

speedman
07-02-2013, 03:36 PM
Well in this case there is additional agita because there is always the "what the hell were you thinking Eli!!!" factor.
I knew what KC was. I liked him a lot but he was flawed. If you give him time he can deliver the ball anywhere. If he gets hit, his eyes get as big as saucers and we were all in trouble.
I still can't figure Eli out.I think he just tries to make a play even if there is no play to be made. I also think more good comes out of that attitude than bad.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:39 PM
I think he just tries to make a play even if there is no play to be made. I also think more good comes out of that attitude than bad.
TC disagrees. As was discussed yesterday.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 03:40 PM
TC disagrees. As was discussed yesterday.
sacks are bad......:p

speedman
07-02-2013, 03:42 PM
TC disagrees. As was discussed yesterday.Didn't TC also say something like you don't want to take the will out of the player?

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:45 PM
Didn't TC also say something like you don't want to take the will out of the player?
....and then followed that with....BUT........

AllHailEli
07-02-2013, 03:52 PM
Giants fans couldn't care less about being anyone's brother.
The reason he is the subject of such disagreement is that no QB, who has accomplished as much as Eli can look so aweful when he's not playing well.
Its not inconsistency. Its downright "Jeckyl and Hyde".
You shouldn't have to wonder which Eli is going to show up. Its not just "bad days"....Its much. much worse.
So when "good Eli" shows up its all roses and chocolates. When "bad Eli" shows up its a nightmare.

But he's always compared to his brother. I doubt we'd be trading for him if not for his pedigree and there were definitely high expectations whether justified or not. The second Super Bowl gave him credibility and his reputation for being clutch which we've seen at times throughout his career, but I don't think it was totally appreciated until that second Super Bowl. And at the core of it, that WAS his scouting report. And in professional sports, people love clutch players who can win it all more than records and stats. Even Lebron James is aware of it, and did factor in when he chose Miami to form the big three. Romo can have his stats but his anti-clutch reputation precedes him.

In defense of Eli, he was vehement against playing for San Diego and unfortunately for him, he is playing in NY where any star is put under a microscope. Some veteran players also undermined him when he started out which could easily rattle anyone's confidence if you let them and he's had a revolving door of receivers and TEs plus missing #1 receivers. You either rise against these obstacles or you fumble and fall like in Mark Sanchez's case. Mark Sanchez was being compared to Eli up to like 2 seasons ago and Sanchez had more success and fanfare early on. They thought he'd turn around just like Eli, instead you heard more dissent against him and he gets undermined more which is not good for anyone's psyche. Not including the fact that Sanchez is left with no real offensive weapons really. It's a recipe for disaster unless he finds a way to turn it around. At the end of the day, the Eli story is a feel-good story and it may take years for some fans to appreciate it. In the meantime, he's an active player open for criticisms despite 2 Super Bowls but which player is never criticized anyway? Not even Tom Brady is immune to it.

speedman
07-02-2013, 03:57 PM
....and then followed that with....BUT........I see what you're saying, but I like the way the guy plays. He's always out there not worrying about stats or criticism. If you saw last years Packer game in the 4th 1/4 it looked like Rodgers was playing not to get hurt. I like our guys mentality better.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 04:01 PM
But he's always compared to his brother. I doubt we'd be trading for him if not for his pedigree and there were definitely high expectations whether justified or not. The second Super Bowl gave him credibility and his reputation for being clutch which we've seen at times throughout his career, but I don't think it was totally appreciated until that second Super Bowl. And at the core of it, that WAS his scouting report. And in professional sports, people love clutch players who can win it all more than records and stats. Even Lebron James is aware of it, and did factor in when he chose Miami to form the big three. Romo can have his stats but his anti-clutch reputation precedes him.

In defense of Eli, he was vehement against playing for San Diego and unfortunately for him, he is playing in NY where any star is put under a microscope. Some veteran players also undermined him when he started out which could easily rattle anyone's confidence if you let them and he's had a revolving door of receivers and TEs plus missing #1 receivers. You either rise against these obstacles or you fumble and fall like in Mark Sanchez's case. Mark Sanchez was being compared to Eli up to like 2 seasons ago and Sanchez had more success and fanfare early on. They thought he'd turn around just like Eli, instead you heard more dissent against him and he gets undermined more which is not good for anyone's psyche. Not including the fact that Sanchez is left with no real offensive weapons really. It's a recipe for disaster unless he finds a way to turn it around. At the end of the day, the Eli story is a feel-good story and it may take years for some fans to appreciate it. In the meantime, he's an active player open for criticisms despite 2 Super Bowls but which player is never criticized anyway? Not even Tom Brady is immune to it.

I like Eli. He seems like a fine you man.
But "Rich kid makes it big" isn't really what I think about when I think of "feel good stories".

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 04:04 PM
I like Eli. He seems like a fine you man.
But "Rich kid makes it big" isn't really what I think about when I think of "feel good stories".

Dopey kid outshines big brother ... twice.

That's what I think about feel good stories.

Too bad Simms never did that for us. :cool:

Buddy333
07-02-2013, 04:32 PM
He has never beaten the Colts when his brother was playing QB for them. Lets see what happens tis year when they play the Broncos.

memfist.ten
07-03-2013, 09:58 AM
How does Eli get the credit? SS was a good receiver in his own right, as is Cruz. SS was productive his rookie year. We drafted a good receiver. If Cruz's success is a product of Eli then Cruz's numbers shouldn't have fell when Nicks was hurt. The best thing Cruz does is YAC, which has nothing to do with Eli.
But Cruz's numbers did fall with an injured Nicks, but
Year Yds Avg Yds/G 20+ 40+
Cruz- 2012 1,092 12.7 68.2 12 3 This drop off in production from '11 to '12 leads me to believe that he's been overrated, but never-the-less, I just hope his contract does not affect our decision on Nicks.

Steve Smith- 2009 1,220 11.4 76.2 14 2 Cruz '12 and Smith '09 were very similar as the primary receivers.

Cruz- 2011 1,536 18.7 96.0 25 9 Cruz does his best with a healthy Nicks

memfist.ten
07-03-2013, 10:19 AM
Their stats aren't similar at all. Plaxico and Nick's stats are far more comparable. Eli had his best season by far with Cruz in the lineup. I don't know why you'd call a receiver a "product of the system" when Eli had an abnormally good season with Cruz in the lineup. As much as it pains me to say about about a two time SB-MVP it seems like Nicks and Cruz help Eli produce just as much as Eli helps Nicks and Cruz produce.

Smith's best two years of his career: 1794 yards 8 TDs.
Cruz's last two years: 2628 yards 19 TDs.

Also, Smith didn't receive the level of coverage Cruz did because of Plaxico and Cruz's stats still blow Smith's out of the water.

I was only referring to Cruz's numbers falling without Nicks a true number 1, and Cruz numbers in '12 and Smith's '09 --when they both were primary receivers, are far too similar than the numbers Cruz put up with a healthy Nicks--just saying! (&smith's '09 was better than '12)

Year Yds Avg Yds/G 20+ 40+
Cruz- 2012 1,092 12.7 68.2 12 3

Year Yds Avg Yds/G 20+ 40+
Steve Smith- 2009 1,220 11.4 76.2 14 2