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Rudyy
07-01-2013, 06:13 PM
http://wp.me/p14QSB-9cT2

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 06:14 PM
@Giants_101: New York Giants, Victor Cruz Expected to Agree on New Deal Prior to Training Camp: Report http://t.co/eyIFajE1J4 #giants #nyg #nygiants #nfl

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 06:18 PM
I heard they were on the 2 yard line.

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 06:26 PM
i heard they were in the redzone, but then got pushed back to the 50 yard line...now we're on the 2 yrd line...saw the dilemma last night late when i couldnt sleep sorry for the lame attempt. but yeah im hopeful this whole thing can get done and put behind us come regular season. i cant speak for anyone else and its just my take, but if cruz doesnt have the long term contract, i could see it being in the back of his mind and maybe effectin his play

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 06:32 PM
That's what all the signs would point to, including Cruz himself saying that was the goal when he signed the tender offer, as well as Mara and Tisch indicating it will take time and for patience.

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 06:36 PM
for some reason, i suspect RF is gonna throw a Cruz Signing party...or in a fair and just world, someone would throw him a surprise VC Signing Party

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 06:37 PM
for some reason, i suspect RF is gonna throw a Cruz Signing party...or in a fair and just world, someone would throw him a surprise VC Signing PartyI'll be at the party.

J. Tuck Rule
07-01-2013, 06:37 PM
http://cadryskitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/8ball_SignsPointToYes.jpg

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 06:37 PM
That's what all the signs would point to, including Cruz himself saying that was the goal when he signed the tender offer, as well as Mara and Tisch indicating it will take time and for patience.I honestly didn't believe it, but I was clearly wrong.

memfist.ten
07-01-2013, 06:45 PM
What does Cruz signing mean for Nicks???

Rusty192
07-01-2013, 06:48 PM
Am I the only one who honestly doesn't care anymore?


Maybe because of all the speculation that I've been subjected to ad nauseum. It's still so early in the year and will be figured out in due time.

titwio
07-01-2013, 06:49 PM
Heard this from Adam Shefter but really....does this mean July 25th he's just going to sign or is this anyday now? This is pretty much the same rumor we've been hearing for the last month only now they're super cereal.

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 06:50 PM
What does Cruz signing mean for Nicks???Good question. It's gonna be hard to keep both considering Nicks' injury history. He's gonna have have a monster question.

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 06:52 PM
What does Cruz signing mean for Nicks???depends on when he's signed. if he's signed this preseason, its excellent for Nicks. If its pushed off until next year, than Cruz n Nicks could essentially fight for 1 contract...

Morehead State
07-01-2013, 06:55 PM
depends on when he's signed. if he's signed this preseason, its excellent for Nicks. If its pushed off until next year, than Cruz n Nicks could essentially fight for 1 contract...
Any big deal digned by Cruz will harm our ability to sign Nicks. That may or may not be good for Nicks who could become a FA next year, but its very bad for the New York Giants.

If we see a huge deal for Cruz, it will be very difficult to sign Nicks. That's why I have been so insistent that JR keep the offer manageable for the team.

memfist.ten
07-01-2013, 06:59 PM
depends on when he's signed. if he's signed this preseason, its excellent for Nicks. If its pushed off until next year, than Cruz n Nicks could essentially fight for 1 contract...
lol. & who wins that battle-Nicks 11-199/ Cruz10-179...Can RR be better than Nicks? Glad I don't have to make those decisions.

Antwuan
07-01-2013, 07:02 PM
Great News!!!

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 07:04 PM
lol. & who wins that battle-Nicks 11-199/ Cruz10-179...Can RR be better than Nicks? Glad I don't have to make those decisions.me either...me either.

my guess is we just keep both. i think if we can sign cruz before this reg. season, it will be closer to the terms the FO had so that next year we could keep Nicks.

I've read from a couple sources (ESPN, PFF?) that after the 2013 season, our cap situation will become more manageable. I believe the Rolle, Canty, and Boley contracts added up as well as some other contract restructuring done to push off some of the cap hit. We've been in quite an iffy situation the last few years, but with JRs drafting ability, no one would ever be able to tell by looking at the roster.


but yea, Cruz this year before the reg. season, I'd be fairly confident Nicks would get done next offseason. Theres a situation, I actually think RF may have posted the article if you lurk around here more than post (92 since 2007? we need smart fans around here more often lol just playin we all can post when we have the time) u can prob find it, where the speculation was we sign Cruz this offseason, and then Nicks during the reg season like late (week 12 was it? cant recall) because if we get to a situation where Nicks has a monster year and hits the market as a FA, Cruz or no Cruz, some team would prob offer way more than we'd be willing to...

Antwuan
07-01-2013, 07:04 PM
I hope the Giants don't give Cruz no more than 7-8 Mil, that way we can have a chance to re-sign Nicks.

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 07:06 PM
I hope the Giants don't give Cruz no more than 7-8 Mil, that way we can have a chance to re-sign Nicks.+1

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 07:08 PM
for some reason, i suspect RF is gonna throw a Cruz Signing party...or in a fair and just world, someone would throw him a surprise VC Signing Party

No party, it's what was going to happen all along. I would have liked it to happen sooner, but it is what it is. I think it's best for the team to have him signed long term. It also doesn't hurt that he still seems to be level headed and grounded.

titwio
07-01-2013, 07:09 PM
Can't see Rolle and Webster being here next season.

GameTime
07-01-2013, 07:09 PM
What does Cruz signing mean for Nicks???
Cruz only signed the tender....
so it means nothing yet

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 07:12 PM
I hope the Giants don't give Cruz no more than 7-8 Mil, that way we can have a chance to re-sign Nicks.

I think Cruz is going to get somewhere around $8.5M, 4/5 years, with $16 -18M guaranteed. Just a WAG. Nicks' signing doesn't hinge on the terms of Cruz's contract.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 07:14 PM
Any big deal digned by Cruz will harm our ability to sign Nicks. That may or may not be good for Nicks who could become a FA next year, but its very bad for the New York Giants.

If we see a huge deal for Cruz, it will be very difficult to sign Nicks. That's why I have been so insistent that JR keep the offer manageable for the team.

You've been saying this for months

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 07:21 PM
I think they are confused as to which 2 yard line. There maybe 98 to go.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 07:26 PM
I honestly didn't believe it, but I was clearly wrong.

You need to listen to me more often :cool:

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 07:26 PM
I think they are confused as to which 2 yard line. There maybe 98 to go.

No, as with Eli, they are just letting the play clock tick down to 01

Eliscruzzz
07-01-2013, 07:39 PM
I think Cruz is going to get somewhere around $8.5M, 4/5 years, with $16 -18M guaranteed. Just a WAG. Nicks' signing doesn't hinge on the terms of Cruz's contract.That's what I'm thinking it's going to be to around 8-8.5 mill. Nicks contract hinges on a productive year and staying healthy for 16 games.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 07:40 PM
That's what I'm thinking it's going to be to around 8-8.5 mill. Nicks contract hinges on a productive year and staying healthy for 16 games.

And one more thing; Randle's performance this season.

egyptian420
07-01-2013, 07:41 PM
http://s12.postimg.org/gblsu6jkt/cruz.jpg

egyptian420
07-01-2013, 07:43 PM
No party, it's what was going to happen all along. I would have liked it to happen sooner, but it is what it is. I think it's best for the team to have him signed long term. It also doesn't hurt that he still seems to be level headed and grounded.I totally agree, I think it's best for both parties to have a long term deal in place and I don't think we will overpay.

Eliscruzzz
07-01-2013, 07:44 PM
And one more thing; Randle's performance this season.oh yeah and that too. I'm praying that Nicks stays healthy and has an awesome year, so we can sign him long term. This way we can sneak a couple more years with all three players.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 07:49 PM
oh yeah and that too. I'm praying that Nicks stays healthy and has an awesome year, so we can sign him long term. This way we can sneak a couple more years with all three players.

Assuming Cruz does sign his long term deal this month, that takes him out of the 2014 sweepstakes. Not only does Nicks have to play as you have described but so does JPP if both want to squeeze top dollar out of Jerry Reese. The dark horse in the Nicks' situation is Randle. If he starts to produce, Reese will surely use that as leverage in the Nicks' negotiations. On top of that, if Hakeem misses games and/or doesn't produce # 1 numbers, his UFA status may take his services elsewhere.

Eliscruzzz
07-01-2013, 07:52 PM
Assuming Cruz does sign his long term deal this month, that takes him out of the 2014 sweepstakes. Not only does Nicks have to play as you have described but so does JPP if both want to squeeze top dollar out of Jerry Reese. The dark horse in the Nicks' situation is Randle. If he starts to produce, Reese will surely use that as leverage in the Nicks' negotiations. On top of that, if Hakeem misses games and/or doesn't produce # 1 numbers, his UFA status may take his services elsewhere.God I would hate seeing him play for another team...but if Randle does have a good year and shows he can possibly be a number 1 and JPP has a beast year. I think you can say goodbye to Nicks, cause you don't want to shift all your money to one side of the ball.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 07:54 PM
God I would hate seeing him play for another team...but if Randle does have a good year and shows he can possibly be a number 1 and JPP has a beast year. I think you can say goodbye to Nicks, cause you don't want to shift all your money to one side of the ball.

Our best team still includes all three and there will be money under the CAP to get them done.

Eliscruzzz
07-01-2013, 07:59 PM
Our best team still includes all three and there will be money under the CAP to get them done.I'm trusting you RF, you usually are spot on with the Giants contract situations. ( If everything falls into plan)

Gimaniac
07-01-2013, 08:01 PM
Our best team still includes all three and there will be money under the CAP to get them done.

That will be the team this year regardless. Next year could be a whole 'nother story. We are all assuming that going into next year will be the same as going into this year. Just ask the Patriots if stuff happens.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 08:03 PM
I'm trusting you RF, you usually are spot on with the Giants contract situations. ( If everything falls into plan)

There is a basic assumption that the demands of Nicks and JPP, as with Cruz, aren't firm in mind or reality. They will both ask for more than they will get as is their duty. But expectations will have to be more reasonable than the demands.

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 08:05 PM
You need to listen to me more often :cool:lol haha no.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 08:06 PM
lol haha no.

I believe your van privileges might be in jeopardy :rolleyes:

GameTime
07-01-2013, 08:20 PM
to me it would be better not to sign him to a long term right now. Let the season play out. See how Randle or any of the other WRs do and revisit after the season. It will be like an open competition especially for Nicks and CRuz.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 08:25 PM
to me it would be better not to sign him to a long term right now. Let the season play out. See how Randle or any of the other WRs do and revisit after the season. It will be like an open competition especially for Nicks and CRuz.

I don't think there is a slot receiver on the team who could come close to Cruz. Randle, on the other hand, could perform well enough to give the Giants an option (leverage) to Nicks in 2014.

GameTime
07-01-2013, 08:32 PM
I don't think there is a slot receiver on the team who could come close to Cruz. Randle, on the other hand, could perform well enough to give the Giants an option (leverage) to Nicks in 2014.
Thats true. Cruz does have leverage in that regard...

Morehead State
07-01-2013, 08:42 PM
I don't think there is a slot receiver on the team who could come close to Cruz. Randle, on the other hand, could perform well enough to give the Giants an option (leverage) to Nicks in 2014.
Do you really believe that RF?
I like Randle a lot, but I completely disagree.
We had a top producing slot guy before. His name was Steve Smith.

fansince69
07-01-2013, 08:43 PM
You've been saying this for monthsI have been agreeing with him for months...although maybe not quite to MH's extreme...

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 08:44 PM
I believe your van privileges might be in jeopardy :rolleyes:Not according to Victor :D

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 08:47 PM
Do you really believe that RF?
I like Randle a lot, but I completely disagree.
We had a top producing slot guy before. His name was Steve Smith.

I tend to write what I think. Cruz will probably sign a long term deal this month as has been reported for about ten days now. I'm thinking if they had a serious replacement on board, they would have waited for the season to at least start. While I don't believe everything I hear or see in print, the sign overwhelmingly point to Cruz signing sooner rather than later.

Randle is the back up to Nicks, Jernigan is the back up to Cruz. If I were to put money on it, I'd say Randle has more of a chance than Jernigan of producing enough in 2013 to have a chance at beating the starter out. But certainly to give Reese more leverage.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 08:48 PM
Not according to Victor :D

Says the woman who didn't believe he'd sign a long term deal :cool:

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 08:48 PM
I have been agreeing with him for months...although maybe not quite to MH's extreme...

That was just the return of a phrase he wrote to me last week

Ruttiger711
07-01-2013, 09:38 PM
Where has Randle shown this number #1 ability that people are even comfortable saying we even MIGHT be okay with him over Nicks?

Why don't we just see if he can fill 'Rios old role first before being so confident in him? He hasn't even proven that yet.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 09:42 PM
Where has Randle shown this number #1 ability that people are even comfortable saying we even MIGHT be okay with him over Nicks?

Why don't we just see if he can fill 'Rios old role first before being so confident in him? He hasn't even proven that yet.

Very true, no one has said he's a # 1. We are talking about Nicks' upcoming contract negotiations and those things that might impact on his leverage.

Randle has been praised by Gilbride for his play and "leadership" during the limited OTAs and mini-camp.

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 10:27 PM
didnt wanna start a new thread in case im talkin about this link, but my facebook feed has an update that is now full out claiming "Contract to be signed before training camp cites team and league sources" like its a done deal and its just a formality of signing the papers?

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 10:28 PM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/9442839/sources-victor-cruz-new-york-giants-deal-done-training-camp


apparently morts reporting deals all done....

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 10:30 PM
gonna let RF decide if that link should be a new thread...apparently no issues left just minor verbage that shouldnt be any issue. parameters in place. deal done.

giantsfan420
07-01-2013, 10:31 PM
and this is great news for the NYG bc this leaves the ability to extend Nicks during the regular season similar with how we extended Tuck. I remember reading the thought was not to let Nicks get anywhere near FA because the bidding war would be lethal. Better to get it done by week 12 or something. I remember reading that at least, dunno how credible it is/was.

Rudyy
07-01-2013, 10:32 PM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/9442839/sources-victor-cruz-new-york-giants-deal-done-training-campapparently morts reporting deals all done....It's all coming together now.

Sebat4
07-01-2013, 10:38 PM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/9442839/sources-victor-cruz-new-york-giants-deal-done-training-camp

There for all the people that said he will be gone after the season :P

Carter.525
07-01-2013, 10:56 PM
yes sir!!

BigBlue1971
07-01-2013, 11:00 PM
ive always said get it done before camp. if not its a circus during camp for everyone. this board would blow up.

we need Cruz big time and I hope he and his people can come to a happy medium with the G-Men.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 11:00 PM
yes sir!! If true, we enter the season with two guys who could be the best WR tandem in the NFL.

RoanokeFan
07-01-2013, 11:02 PM
ive always said get it done before camp. if not its a circus during camp for everyone. this board would blow up. we need Cruz big time and I hope he and his people can come to a happy medium with the G-Men. It seems there are just some language details left to get the deal done. Good timing.

miked1958
07-01-2013, 11:38 PM
Yea saw this on ESPN almost 3 hours ago and was surprised it wasn't on here sooner when I checked, seeing with the 1000 Cruz threads that someone would of seen it

miked1958
07-01-2013, 11:41 PM
Overall I'm happy but not ecstatic until I see how much they gave him. Hopefully he wasnt greedy and left something on the table for the guy who will help him get another SB ring and that's Nicks

fletch842
07-01-2013, 11:43 PM
Good news. I'm glad they're getting it done before training camp. Make everyone happy campers.

miked1958
07-01-2013, 11:47 PM
But as others have said we need nicks and JPP to get resigned as well

Gimaniac
07-02-2013, 12:15 AM
So we are on the 1 yard line now?

jomo
07-02-2013, 12:19 AM
So we are on the 1 yard line now?4th and less than one. Frighteningly, we are running behind our OL. lol

Shockeystays08
07-02-2013, 12:30 AM
Yada, Yada, Yada, He's been on the 2yard line so close to signing for what now 2 months? The speculation is nonsense. It's remarkable ow many folks buy into this junk! If he signs, fine. If not fine, Because either way , we'll be fine!

gumby74
07-02-2013, 12:35 AM
Overall I'm happy but not ecstatic until I see how much they gave him. Hopefully he wasnt greedy and left something on the table for the guy who will help him get another SB ring and that's Nicks Same here. I want to see how much we paid for him.

Carter.525
07-02-2013, 12:38 AM
4th and less than one. Frighteningly, we are running behind our OL. lol

who is the fullback?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 01:58 AM
Overall I'm happy but not ecstatic until I see how much they gave him. Hopefully he wasnt greedy and left something on the table for the guy who will help him get another SB ring and that's Nicks That isn't Cruz's problem. That's Reese's. problem.

jomo
07-02-2013, 02:04 AM
who is the fullback?Oh no, don't torture me!

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 02:05 AM
That isn't Cruz's problem. That's Reese's. problem.

If you're Cruz it's an awesome problem to have.

jomo
07-02-2013, 02:06 AM
But as others have said we need nicks and JPP to get resigned as wellWe don't need JPP if he plays like last year.

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 02:37 AM
jomo-really? i disagree completely. i'd be fine if JPP played like that for the next 10 yrs...sack #s are overrated in many regard. I'd like to see JPP increase both pressures and sacks, but just bc he didnt set the league on fire in those two aspects last season doesn't mean he isn't a top DE in the league...

UKAnt14
07-02-2013, 03:17 AM
Personally, the priority for me has been to get our most productive WR over the last two seasons tied up long-term and that, it seems, is about to happen imminently !

miked1958
07-02-2013, 03:41 AM
That isn't Cruz's problem. That's Reese's. problem.well maybe I phrased that wrong cause your right. Just like its not Eli's problem for our Cap situation. Should of been "Hopefully the giants didnt cave in to Cruz's greed and left some money on the table they can use to help resign Nicks"..... There is that better?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 07:42 AM
We don't need JPP if he plays like last year.

I hope he recovers fully from his back surgery, but can we expect him to be 100% at the beginning of the season?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 07:46 AM
well maybe I phrased that wrong cause your right. Just like its not Eli's problem for our Cap situation. Should of been "Hopefully the giants didnt cave in to Cruz's greed and left some money on the table they can use to help resign Nicks"..... There is that better?

The word "greed" doesn't factor into contract negotiations and the team doesn't "cave in." Players are entitled to negotiate the best deal they can. The team is entitled to draw a line they won't cross. Nicks' situation has nothing to do with Cruz, JPP, or anyone else. Should Nicks make an initial demand at, say, $14M is he going to be "greedy"?

Gimaniac
07-02-2013, 08:21 AM
4th and less than one. Frighteningly, we are running behind our OL. lol

Fade to Barden? He's really tall. They are still negotiating in the huddle. Clock is winding down.

"Delay of game, number ten, offense."

Dorothy
07-02-2013, 08:22 AM
I heard they were on the 2 yard line.

Giants don't always do their best in the green zone. Just kidding.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 08:55 AM
the NFL....much like saving for your retirement. You have to live for the day and think about the future too.
The Giants can win big now. They have to think like that and worry about next season but the present is much more important for a team like theirs IMO.
You cant keep all the really good players....its impossible.

giantscolombia
07-02-2013, 09:12 AM
Good question. It's gonna be hard to keep both considering Nicks' injury history. He's gonna have have a monster question.
SPECIALLY if Randle shows up big.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 09:16 AM
SPECIALLY if Randle shows up big.

Nicks' future here will be determined by three things:

1. His playing a full season
2. His putting up Nicks-like numbers
3. The development of Rueben Randle

If Nicks takes care of business, and he was on the right track in skipping the OTAs, then # 3 won't matter as much although if Randle becomes a producer, it will be used as leverage in the Nicks' negotiations.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 09:21 AM
Cruz has tweeted "Good things come to those who wait"

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/07/giants_victor_cruz_reportedly_to_sign_lone-term_deal_before_training_camp.html

gumby74
07-02-2013, 09:29 AM
Nicks' future here will be determined by three things:

1. His playing a full season
2. His putting up Nicks-like numbers
3. The development of Rueben Randle

If Nicks takes care of business, and he was on the right track in skipping the OTAs, then # 3 won't matter as much although if Randle becomes a producer, it will be used as leverage in the Nicks' negotiations.

Actually, I think it's just #3. If RR shows up big, Nicks just isn't worth the money. Remember they dubbed him as a Nicks clone on draft day?

giantscolombia
07-02-2013, 09:35 AM
Nicks' future here will be determined by three things:

1. His playing a full season
2. His putting up Nicks-like numbers
3. The development of Rueben Randle

If Nicks takes care of business, and he was on the right track in skipping the OTAs, then # 3 won't matter as much although if Randle becomes a producer, it will be used as leverage in the Nicks' negotiations.

I think 1 and 2 are the same... if he stays healthy for a full season he should put up numbers. I think it all comes down to 3. If Randle lights it up, and Nicks asks for a huge contract I believe we might let him walk...

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 09:55 AM
Actually, I think it's just #3. If RR shows up big, Nicks just isn't worth the money. Remember they dubbed him as a Nicks clone on draft day?

Here's the problem, how many snaps will Randle get behind Cruz and Nicks? If he takes advantage of every opportunity and Eli targets him, it will factor into Nicks' negotiations. But if you think his missing games again won't matter, I believe that will have more of an impact on his future worth to the Giants.

Imgrate
07-02-2013, 09:57 AM
Here's the problem, how many snaps will Randle get behind Cruz and Nicks? If he takes advantage of every opportunity and Eli targets him, it will factor into Nicks' negotiations. But if you think his missing games again won't matter, I believe that will have more of an impact on his future worth to the Giants.How many snaps did mario get. Quite a bit.

Rudyy
07-02-2013, 09:58 AM
How many snaps did mario get. Quite a bit.Well Mario was a 3rd wideout, Rueben is behind Nicks on the depth chart.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:03 AM
How many snaps did mario get. Quite a bit.

And where is Mario now? It's not going to be a one dimensional decision for Reese. If Nicks puts in a full season with Nicks-like numbers then Randle would have to shoot the moon to factor in.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:04 AM
Well Mario was a 3rd wideout, Rueben is behind Nicks on the depth chart.

I think the comparison with MM is legitimate. Randle will likely be the # 3 this season.

gumby74
07-02-2013, 10:04 AM
Here's the problem, how many snaps will Randle get behind Cruz and Nicks? If he takes advantage of every opportunity and Eli targets him, it will factor into Nicks' negotiations. But if you think his missing games again won't matter, I believe that will have more of an impact on his future worth to the Giants.

I'll very surprised (and upset), if we re-sign Nicks at his free agent price either way. The only way I see us re-signing him is us putting all of our eggs in one basket for one last run while Eli remains in his prime. It make sense actually. When Eli declines, chances are we won't have a Favre/Rodgers type transition that Green Bay had.

But, if Eli plays well into his late 30s and remains effective, re-signing Nicks may bite us in the butt.

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 10:04 AM
I tend to write what I think. Cruz will probably sign a long term deal this month as has been reported for about ten days now. I'm thinking if they had a serious replacement on board, they would have waited for the season to at least start. While I don't believe everything I hear or see in print, the sign overwhelmingly point to Cruz signing sooner rather than later.

Randle is the back up to Nicks, Jernigan is the back up to Cruz. If I were to put money on it, I'd say Randle has more of a chance than Jernigan of producing enough in 2013 to have a chance at beating the starter out. But certainly to give Reese more leverage.

I feel better about Randle replacing Nicks then Jernigan replacing Cruz at this point, though I really don't like either idea in the least bit.

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 10:06 AM
I'll very surprised (and upset), if we re-sign Nicks at his free agent price either way. The only way I see us re-signing him is us putting all of our eggs in one basket for one last run while Eli remains in his prime. It make sense actually. When Eli declines, chances are we won't have a Favre/Rodgers type transition that Green Bay had.

But, if Eli plays well into his late 30s and remains effective, re-signing Nicks may bite us in the butt.

Resigning his go to receiver- when healthy- is going to "bite us in the butt"?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:08 AM
I'll very surprised (and upset), if we re-sign Nicks at his free agent price either way. The only way I see us re-signing him is us putting all of our eggs in one basket for one last run while Eli remains in his prime. It make sense actually. When Eli declines, chances are we won't have a Favre/Rodgers type transition that Green Bay had.

But, if Eli plays well into his late 30s and remains effective, re-signing Nicks may bite us in the butt.

We don't yet know what his demand is going to be but whatever it is will be more than the team will pay. That's just how it works. If 2013 is a banner year for Eli, Nicks and Cruz leading to the playoffs, odds are they will sign Nicks as long as he doesn't have unreasonable expectations.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:11 AM
Resigning his go to receiver- when healthy- is going to "bite us in the butt"?

It will be an interesting season that sets up the negotiations. Don't be surprised to see Reese make Nicks an extension offer before the season ends. A lot will depend on Nicks' performance.

gumby74
07-02-2013, 10:12 AM
I'll very surprised (and upset), if we re-sign Nicks at his free agent price either way. The only way I see us re-signing him is us putting all of our eggs in one basket for one last run while Eli remains in his prime. It make sense actually. When Eli declines, chances are we won't have a Favre/Rodgers type transition that Green Bay had.

But, if Eli plays well into his late 30s and remains effective, re-signing Nicks may bite us in the butt.


Resigning his go to receiver- when healthy- is going to "bite us in the butt"?

Salary Cap my friend. How many other teams have 20-25 million invested in 2 WRs. When it was Harrison and Wayne. Harrison was the odd man out. Between Fitz and Boldin, Boldin was out. I'll very surprised if the Falcons keep both Roddy White and Jones. Between the Steelers young WRs corps and Mike Wallace, Wallace was out. At some point, it doesn't make sense. With that extra 10+ million we could use that to help us re-sign JPP, sign 2 solid olinemen, etc.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:12 AM
It will be an interesting season that sets up the negotiations. Don't be surprised to see Reese make Nicks an extension offer before the season ends. A lot will depend on Nicks' performance.

BTW, Cruz has been the go to receiver for the past two seasons

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:16 AM
BTW, Cruz has been the go to receiver for the past two seasons
Cruz is a fine player, but $30MM for 4 years, or whatever he's going to get is too much.

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 10:17 AM
It will be an interesting season that sets up the negotiations. Don't be surprised to see Reese make Nicks an extension offer before the season ends. A lot will depend on Nicks' performance.

I think it would be the smartest move. If Nicks has a good season and we wait until the end it could raise the asking price significantly. I thought Nicks and his agent have said that they are in no rush and they want to play the season out and see what happens. Still, if they get a good offer midseason I think they could take it.

This could be the last hurrah for the Cruz and Nicks show, if so with Myers and Randle I have a feeling it could be a good one.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:18 AM
Cruz is a fine player, but $30MM for 4 years, or whatever he's going to get is too much.

We don't yet know the details, so we should just wait a few days and see what Cruz's value is to the team.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:19 AM
I think it would be the smartest move. If Nicks has a good season and we wait until the end it could raise the asking price significantly. I thought Nicks and his agent have said that they are in no rush and they want to play the season out and see what happens. Still, if they get a good offer midseason I think they could take it.

This could be the last hurrah for the Cruz and Nicks show, if so with Myers and Randle I have a feeling it could be a good one.

So many things factor into a player's worth.

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 10:24 AM
Salary Cap my friend. How many other teams have 20-25 million invested in 2 WRs. When it was Harrison and Wayne. Harrison was the odd man out. Between Fitz and Boldin, Boldin was out. I'll very surprised if the Falcons keep both Roddy White and Jones. Between the Steelers young WRs corps and Mike Wallace, Wallace was out. At some point, it doesn't make sense. With that extra 10+ million we could use that to help us re-sign JPP, sign 2 solid olinemen, etc.

If we keep both we will keep our winning formula. The best offensive teams have two good/great receiving options. We won the SB in 2011, so as far as I'm concerned we will set the trend for how to maintain our success. Frankly, I don't care what any other team is doing. I would try to resign them both and see what happens...wait a minute, we know what happens- SB victory.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:26 AM
We don't yet know the details, so we should just wait a few days and see what Cruz's value is to the team.
Well at least we won't have any more Cruz threads. (which ARE your favorite)
Hahaha!!!

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:27 AM
If we keep both we will keep our winning formula. The best offensive teams have two good/great receiving options. We won the SB in 2011, so as far as I'm concerned we will set the trend for how to maintain our success. Frankly, I don't care what any other team is doing. I would try to resign them both and see what happens...wait a minute, we know what happens- SB victory.

If we get to the Super Bowl, I don't see them not keeping Nicks unless he completely bombs out.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:30 AM
Well at least we won't have any more Cruz threads. (which ARE your favorite)
Hahaha!!!

I have never created a "Cruz Thread." I post news media articles about topics related to the team. Let me know when you find an "original thought" thread about Cruz, or any other player for that matter, that I created.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:32 AM
I have never created a "Cruz Thread." I post news media articles about topics related to the team. Let me know when you find an "original thought" thread about Cruz, or any other player for that matter, that I created.

Why are you getting snippy at your buddy Morehead? Just a little banter.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:34 AM
Why are you getting snippy at your buddy Morehead? Just a little banter.

Not snippy, factual.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:34 AM
Not snippy, factual.
...but in a snippy way.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:35 AM
...but in a snippy way.

I don't do snippy. Like I don't do "I told you so."

MattMeyerBud
07-02-2013, 10:36 AM
http://wp.me/p14QSB-9cT2

not getting at you rudy, just saying in general

we kinda all knew it would be getting done once we heard they were only like 3 mil away in guaranteed money a few weeks ago

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 10:39 AM
I don't do snippy. Like I don't do "I told you so."
You do realize that when you say you don't do "I told you so", you are saying "I told you so".

Well played.

And my position isn't that we wouldn't sign him to a big, long term deal. My position is that it would be a mistake.

Ruttiger711
07-02-2013, 10:40 AM
I think the comparison with MM is legitimate. Randle will likely be the # 3 this season.Agree completely

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 10:49 AM
You do realize that when you say you don't do "I told you so", you are saying "I told you so".

Well played.

And my position isn't that we wouldn't sign him to a big, long term deal. My position is that it would be a mistake.

I understand and appreciate your position on the terms of the deal. The difference between you and me in this situation is I trust Reese to know the right thing to do for the team and to get it done.

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 11:00 AM
If we get to the Super Bowl, I don't see them not keeping Nicks unless he completely bombs out.

If we get to the SB and win I think he's a gonner. He'll have 2 rings and he will proceed to fill his coffers with coin. Some team like the Raiders will put an outrageous offer on the table for him that we can't dream of matching.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 11:01 AM
If we get to the SB and win I think he's a gonner. He'll have 2 rings and he will proceed to fill his coffers with coin. Some team like the Raiders will put an outrageous offer on the table for him that we can't dream of matching.

That could happen.

Rudyy
07-02-2013, 11:14 AM
not getting at you rudy, just saying in generalwe kinda all knew it would be getting done once we heard they were only like 3 mil away in guaranteed money a few weeks agoCool.

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 11:29 AM
i dont know how having 1 nicks can be bad, but the insinuation seems to be that were RR able to prove he can perform at Nicks level, we wouldn't need nicks...um, no? How is having 2 Nicks a bad thing esp when 1 of em is on a rookie contract for peanuts?? I'd LOVE if RR panned out like Nicks, it'd mean we'd be lining up two All Pro WR's out wide and letting Cruz roam free over the middle...

Rudyy
07-02-2013, 11:31 AM
i dont know how having 1 nicks can be bad, but the insinuation seems to be that were RR able to prove he can perform at Nicks level, we wouldn't need nicks...um, no? How is having 2 Nicks a bad thing esp when 1 of em is on a rookie contract for peanuts?? I'd LOVE if RR panned out like Nicks, it'd mean we'd be lining up two All Pro WR's out wide and letting Cruz roam free over the middle...I think it's a money issue

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 11:35 AM
i dont know how having 1 nicks can be bad, but the insinuation seems to be that were RR able to prove he can perform at Nicks level, we wouldn't need nicks...um, no? How is having 2 Nicks a bad thing esp when 1 of em is on a rookie contract for peanuts?? I'd LOVE if RR panned out like Nicks, it'd mean we'd be lining up two All Pro WR's out wide and letting Cruz roam free over the middle...

That's not the "insinuation." The discussion is that if Randle develops into a play maker, he will factor into the Nicks' contract negotiations as leverage for Reese. Not so that Reese can ignore Nicks' contributions in favor of Randle, but so that he can keep the terms more team friendly.

Someone else has pointed out Nicks, being a UFA in 2014, could get an offer that Reese just won't match. If that turns out to be the case, there's nothing else to say.

miked1958
07-02-2013, 12:15 PM
I have never created a "Cruz Thread." I post news media articles about topics related to the team. Let me know when you find an "original thought" thread about Cruz, or any other player for that matter, that I created.and you combine all the many threads

miked1958
07-02-2013, 12:15 PM
Cruz threads I should say

B&RWarrior
07-02-2013, 12:23 PM
That's not the "insinuation." The discussion is that if Randle develops into a play maker, he will factor into the Nicks' contract negotiations as leverage for Reese. Not so that Reese can ignore Nicks' contributions in favor of Randle, but so that he can keep the terms more team friendly.

Someone else has pointed out Nicks, being a UFA in 2014, could get an offer that Reese just won't match. If that turns out to be the case, there's nothing else to say.

If push comes to shove Randle is waiting in the wings, but, IHMO, we should do everything within reason to resign Nicks. Randle is a downgrade. Even if he performs well this season it only tells us that he can perform well with a secondary focused on the top 2 receivers.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 12:40 PM
and you combine all the many threads

When that's appropriate

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 12:40 PM
If push comes to shove Randle is waiting in the wings, but, IHMO, we should do everything within reason to resign Nicks. Randle is a downgrade. Even if he performs well this season it only tells us that he can perform well with a secondary focused on the top 2 receivers.

Absolutely. My point is Randle COULD be used as leverage by Reese.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 12:42 PM
I understand and appreciate your position on the terms of the deal. The difference between you and me in this situation is I trust Reese to know the right thing to do for the team and to get it done.
We all have a certain amount of trust in JR. But there is no doubt that JR has made mistakes like any one else. He traded up for Ramses Barden, he drafted Clint Sintim in round 2 etc......
So if I think our GM is about to make another (but rare) mistake, I will say so. It doesn't mean I'm right. It just means that I think paying $7 or $8 MM.year with a crapload of guaranteed money could backfire on the success of the team. Not because there is anything wrong with Victor Cruz, but because setting such a high bar could very easily make it very difficult to sign Nicks and JPP.

I'm thinking more about the unintended consequences of a huge deal for Cruz, and its impact on our team down the road.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 12:49 PM
We all have a certain amount of trust in JR. But there is no doubt that JR has made mistakes like any one else. He traded up for Ramses Barden, he drafted Clint Sintim in round 2 etc......
So if I think our GM is about to make another (but rare) mistake, I will say so. It doesn't mean I'm right. It just means that I think paying $7 or $8 MM.year with a crapload of guaranteed money could backfire on the success of the team. Not because there is anything wrong with Victor Cruz, but because setting such a high bar could very easily make it very difficult to sign Nicks and JPP.

I'm thinking more about the unintended consequences of a huge deal for Cruz, and its impact on our team down the road.


We may all be surprised at the final numbers. My trust in Reese is not in his infallibility but his overall track record.

I would love to see what his 5 and 10 years plans look like.

drewz
07-02-2013, 12:52 PM
$9 a million? whatever

I guess that means Nicks is gone next year

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 12:53 PM
We may all be surprised at the final numbers. My trust in Reese is not in his infallibility but his overall track record.
I truly think that JR is using the "bird in the hand" philosophy. If he signs Cruz at least he will have one signed. But in doing so, he will be compromising the chances of keeping Nicks, which in my opinion is absolutely vital.
If Nicks contract came up first he would probably do near the same thing in reverse.
What concerns me however is the admission that signing Nicks is a top priority.

Stoneroses6300
07-02-2013, 12:54 PM
If Nicks has a good year, a team will offer him 11-15 million a year (as an UFA). I can't imagine the Giants spending this much money on any position but QB. There would be a good 2-4 million difference between what the Giants would pay Vs. some bottom feeder with cap space. The reality of the industry sucks, especially when one of your favorite players is involved.

That being said, the Giants need to make the most of this year.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 12:58 PM
I truly think that JR is using the "bird in the hand" philosophy. If he signs Cruz at least he will have one signed. But in doing so, he will be compromising the chances of keeping Nicks, which in my opinion is absolutely vital.
If Nicks contract came up first he would probably do near the same thing in reverse.
What concerns me however is the admission that signing Nicks is a top priority.

Whose admission?

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 12:59 PM
If Nicks has a good year, a team will offer him 11-15 million a year (as an UFA). I can't imagine the Giants spending this much money on any position but QB. There would be a good 2-4 million difference between what the Giants would pay Vs. some bottom feeder with cap space. The reality of the industry sucks, especially when one of your favorite players is involved.

That being said, the Giants need to make the most of this year.i've read that a big hurdle in keeping nicks was actually the ability to re-sign cruz before the season started. the goal being not to let nicks anywhere near FA if he's having a year he's capable of. I actually would look at it, if we try to get him extended with a new contract during the reg season, we obviously are intent on keeping both nicks n cruz. if the situation is nicks is healthy and having a nicks year and we arent trying to get him re-signed during the season, it'd be my opinion we wouldn't be too aggressive trying to keep him. if he hits the market without a setback this year, he is gonna command that nieghborhood u r right.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 12:59 PM
If Nicks has a good year, a team will offer him 11-15 million a year (as an UFA). I can't imagine the Giants spending this much money on any position but QB. There would be a good 2-4 million difference between what the Giants would pay Vs. some bottom feeder with cap space. The reality of the industry sucks, especially when one of your favorite players is involved.

That being said, the Giants need to make the most of this year.
I think you're probably right.
We had a choice of who to offer the money to and it seems that JR has chosen Cruz. I get the durability issue with Nicks, but a broken foot is a broken foot. And even with some injuries, he has still had more yards and TD's than any WR in Giants history in his first 4 years as a pro.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 01:01 PM
Whose admission?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/03/giants-reportedly-making-hakeem-nicks-extension-top-priority/

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 01:02 PM
Whose admission?I remember reading before the cruz contract talks started heating up how the Giants/JR/sources were leaking that Nicks is the main priority (altho Mara and Tich iirc did respond saying Cruz too was a priority). I honestly see this as a good thing. If we were unable to sign Cruz before the season, theres no way we'd be able to keep both. getting cruz signed leaves the door open to keeping nicks imo way more so than if we waited to deal with cruz until next offseason

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 01:04 PM
I remember reading before the cruz contract talks started heating up how the Giants/JR/sources were leaking that Nicks is the main priority (altho Mara and Tich iirc did respond saying Cruz too was a priority). I honestly see this as a good thing. If we were unable to sign Cruz before the season, theres no way we'd be able to keep both. getting cruz signed leaves the door open to keeping nicks imo way more so than if we waited to deal with cruz until next offseason
One thing I hadn't considered is that JR might be considering franchising Nicks after next season and trying to sign him long term during that time.
If that's what he's thinking it might not be a bad plan.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 01:05 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/03/giants-reportedly-making-hakeem-nicks-extension-top-priority/

I think John Mara debunked that:

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/02/john_mara_hopes_hakeem_nicks_v.html

Excerpt: ""They’re both priorities for us. They’re both terrific players," co-owner John Mara said Thursday between meetings at the NFL Scouting Combine. "We hope they’re both Giants for a long time."

An ESPN report earlier this month said the Giants have prioritized Nicks, their first-round pick in 2009, over Cruz, the former undrafted free agent who posted back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons and set a franchise record for single-season receiving yards in 2011.

"I don’t know where that came from; that’s not true at all," Mara said. "They’re both priorities for us." Read more...

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 01:05 PM
I think you're probably right.
We had a choice of who to offer the money to and it seems that JR has chosen Cruz. I get the durability issue with Nicks, but a broken foot is a broken foot. And even with some injuries, he has still had more yards and TD's than any WR in Giants history in his first 4 years as a pro.

Talk about your ticky-tacky stats.

Nicks is a great receiver ... when healthy. Unfortunately he's not been consistently healthy. In fact, he's only had one year when he was 100% most of the season and that was in 2011 (his best year). The year in which he was second highest in receptions and yards (Cruz being first).

I sincerely doubt the Giants pony up 8 figures for Nicks, even if he has a monstrous year in 2013. There's just too much uncertainty with him.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 01:07 PM
I remember reading before the cruz contract talks started heating up how the Giants/JR/sources were leaking that Nicks is the main priority (altho Mara and Tich iirc did respond saying Cruz too was a priority). I honestly see this as a good thing. If we were unable to sign Cruz before the season, theres no way we'd be able to keep both. getting cruz signed leaves the door open to keeping nicks imo way more so than if we waited to deal with cruz until next offseason

I am confident Nicks will be signed to a long term deal if he returns to form, stays healthy and doesn't have unrealistic expectations. Cruz, as a piece of the offensive puzzle, seems to be in place, long term. Now they can turn their attention to Nicks

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 01:10 PM
One thing I hadn't considered is that JR might be considering franchising Nicks after next season and trying to sign him long term during that time.
If that's what he's thinking it might not be a bad plan.

The ace up the sleeve

miked1958
07-02-2013, 01:15 PM
The ace up the sleeveyep won't have to use the franchise sticker on Cruz now

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 01:16 PM
yep won't have to use the franchise sticker on Cruz now

Reese may have been thinking this the whole time. He is way ahead of us in terms of the future.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 01:22 PM
Talk about your ticky-tacky stats.

Nicks is a great receiver ... when healthy. Unfortunately he's not been consistently healthy. In fact, he's only had one year when he was 100% most of the season and that was in 2011 (his best year). The year in which he was second highest in receptions and yards (Cruz being first).

I sincerely doubt the Giants pony up 8 figures for Nicks, even if he has a monstrous year in 2013. There's just too much uncertainty with him.
More yards and TD's than any WR in Giants history in his 1st 4 years...........is a ticky tack stat?
Seems pretty basic to me.

Stoneroses6300
07-02-2013, 01:30 PM
One thing I hadn't considered is that JR might be considering franchising Nicks after next season and trying to sign him long term during that time.
If that's what he's thinking it might not be a bad plan.

Forgot about this. Yeah.

The Franchise tag stuff is a bit confusing to me. Doesn't the franchise tag average out the top 5 players at said position for the salary that year for the tagged player? It would amount then to a large 1 year salary?
Also, can't another team make an offer for a long term contract, that if the Giants weren't able to match, they would get 2 1st round picks?

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 01:31 PM
Forgot about this. Yeah.

The Franchise tag stuff is a bit confusing to me. Doesn't the franchise tag average out the top 5 players at said position for the salary that year for the tagged player? It would amount then to a large 1 year salary?
Also, can't another team make an offer for a long term contract, that if the Giants weren't able to match, they would get 2 1st round picks?
If Nicks is healthy, he IS a top 5 WR.
The franchise number is around $11MM for a WR.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 01:32 PM
Forgot about this. Yeah.

The Franchise tag stuff is a bit confusing to me. Doesn't the franchise tag average out the top 5 players at said position for the salary that year for the tagged player? It would amount then to a large 1 year salary?
Also, can't another team make an offer for a long term contract, that if the Giants weren't able to match, they would get 2 1st round picks?

The Franchise Tag takes the player off the market. But it does give him a pretty good one year salary. The Giants tend to use it sparingly and, like the Cruz tender, value it more as a step toward a long term contract.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 01:33 PM
If Nicks is healthy, he IS a top 5 WR.
The franchise number is around $11MM for a WR.

Likely to be closer to $12 - 13M in 2014

NYGabriel
07-02-2013, 01:36 PM
If Nicks is healthy, he IS a top 5 WR.
The franchise number is around $11MM for a WR.

It's a big if. Top 10 maybe but not top 5.

Giantz4Life
07-02-2013, 01:46 PM
It's a big if. Top 10 maybe but not top 5.

I'd say Top 5 when 100%

Here is my opinionated top 10...and honestly after the top 3 it's really difficult to rank them

1. Calvin
2. AJ Green
3. B Marsh
4. Nicks
5. Julio
6. D Thomas
7. Dez
8. A Johnson
9. Roddy
10. Cruz

Honorable: Fitzy, VJax, Colston....

Ruttiger711
07-02-2013, 01:54 PM
In their respective 3 years of college ball -

Nicks had 181 catches, 2840 yards and 21 tds

Randle had 97 catches. 1634 yards and 13tds....

I hope Randle pans out as much as any other fan, but where is all the faith coming from that he could potentially be as good as Nicks? Specifically?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 01:55 PM
In their respective 3 years of college ball -

Nicks had 181 catches, 2840 yards and 21 tds

Randle had 97 catches. 1634 yards and 13tds....

I hope Randle pans out as much as any other fan, but where is all the faith coming from that he could potentially be as good as Nicks? Specifically?

No one has said he as good as Nicks.

Ruttiger711
07-02-2013, 01:57 PM
No one has said he as good as Nicks.

Everything but.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:02 PM
Everything but.

There has been a running discussion about Nicks contract now that the Cruz contract seems to be a fait accompli. The discussion that includes Randle has been in terms of team leverage for Reese to use IF Randle starts to perform and make plays in 2013.

IF Nicks can stay healthy and puts up top 5 or 10 numbers, we should expect them to sign him long term, even if they have to apply the franchise tag to get there.

I haven't see anyone suggest Randle = Nicks

GameTime
07-02-2013, 02:04 PM
I'd say Top 5 when 100%

Here is my opinionated top 10...and honestly after the top 3 it's really difficult to rank them

1. Calvin
2. AJ Green
3. B Marsh
4. Nicks
5. Julio
6. D Thomas
7. Dez
8. A Johnson
9. Roddy
10. Cruz

Honorable: Fitzy, VJax, Colston....
Fitz belongs in there for sure.....

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 02:10 PM
More yards and TD's than any WR in Giants history in his 1st 4 years...........is a ticky tack stat?
Seems pretty basic to me.

Yes that's a ticky-tacky stat. That's like saying Nicks has the most left turns during the full moon of any Giant since last Monday.

If you want an example of a better stat ... which receiver has the most TDs, receptions and yards over the past two years?

The point being that I could see the Giants seeing Nicks in that fashion when thinking about breaking the 8 figure salary on a non-QB.

Not only does Nicks have an injury history, he hasn't even been the best receiver on the team for the past two years.

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 02:12 PM
I'd say Top 5 when 100%

Here is my opinionated top 10...and honestly after the top 3 it's really difficult to rank them

1. Calvin
2. AJ Green
3. B Marsh
4. Nicks
5. Julio
6. D Thomas
7. Dez
8. A Johnson
9. Roddy
10. Cruz

Honorable: Fitzy, VJax, Colston....

Nicks better than Fitz and Andre Johnson?

Crack.

P.S. - Nicks isn't better than Cruz either (statistically speaking).

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:13 PM
Yes that's a ticky-tacky stat. That's like saying Nicks has the most left turns during the full moon of any Giant since last Monday.

If you want an example of a better stat ... which receiver has the most TDs, receptions and yards over the past two years?

The point being that I could see the Giants seeing Nicks in that fashion when thinking about breaking the 8 figure salary on a non-QB.

Not only does Nicks have an injury history, he hasn't even been the best receiver on the team for the past two years.

Nicks and Cruz together are better than Nicks or Cruz separately. If Nicks can stay healthy and get his numbers back up he'll be a priority for Reese.

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 02:13 PM
Likely to be closer to $12 - 13M in 2014actually iirc, WR was one of the positions that its Franchise tag # isnt going to increase iirc its supposed to actually lower.

and, it'd be somewhat poetic justice if we would franchise nicks over cruz, bc cruz has already given us 2 seasons at AMAZING value. kinda need to pay the man. nicks gettin franchised isnt that bad for him either as it would set the bar for him to be paid like a top WR. And RF is spot on anyways, we use the franchise tag as a contract negotiation ploy, if we franchised nicks it'd lead me to believe we were going to extend him long before the franchise # would hit the cap.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:15 PM
Yes that's a ticky-tacky stat. That's like saying Nicks has the most left turns during the full moon of any Giant since last Monday.

If you want an example of a better stat ... which receiver has the most TDs, receptions and yards over the past two years?

The point being that I could see the Giants seeing Nicks in that fashion when thinking about breaking the 8 figure salary on a non-QB.

Not only does Nicks have an injury history, he hasn't even been the best receiver on the team for the past two years.
Isn't 4 years a better sample than 2?

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 02:16 PM
Nicks and Cruz together are better than Nicks or Cruz separately. If Nicks can stay healthy and get his numbers back up he'll be a priority for Reese.

Blackburn was a priority for Reese ... until he wasn't.

Should Nicks have an injury free and productive season, yes we will want to re-sign him. However I'm not sure we'll be willing to pay an 8 figure salary for him and most likely, that's what he'll be asking for,

But we always knew there was a very slim chance of us keeping both Cruz and Nicks long term. We'll see how it goes.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:17 PM
Blackburn was a priority for Reese ... until he wasn't.

Should Nicks have an injury free and productive season, yes we will want to re-sign him. However I'm not sure we'll be willing to pay an 8 figure salary for him and most likely, that's what he'll be asking for,

But we always knew there was a very slim chance of us keeping both Cruz and Nicks long term. We'll see how it goes.

Blackburn was never a "priority", more like a necessity at times.

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 02:17 PM
Isn't 4 years a better sample than 2?

Not if it's meaningless.

And do you really see the Giants tying up $20 million in two receivers over the next three to four years? I sure don't (no matter how much I would love having Nicks and Cruz together).

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 02:18 PM
the reason why RR is compared to Nicks is because RR runs the complete route tree, is deceptive in his downfield speed similar to nicks, has a physical ability to his play, both run solid routes...

the reason RR had lesser stats in college wasn't due to skill, but more so that style offense LSU ran. RR's last two years, he had 2 QBs splitting time due to inefficient play. And he still had games where he'd dominate.

I definitely see a strong similarity and saw the similarity coming out of college. RR's play at the end of the yr only strengthened that belief.

I personally couldn't think of a better thing than having TWO Nicks caliber WR's on the outside with Cruz on the inside alongside Myers working the check downs and DW threatening the run...we'd be unstoppable. literally unstoppable. we're about as close to that as is now, if RR can progress watch out.

In that regard, the addition of L.Murphy almost seems like overkill, like a toy we're gonna use just because, well because, we're stacked already. I guess he was more of a fail safe plan, still expect to see a lot of him don't get me wrong. But I dunno how u give him snaps if Randle is playing like he's Nicks...maybe outta the slot?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:18 PM
Blackburn was a priority for Reese ... until he wasn't.

Should Nicks have an injury free and productive season, yes we will want to re-sign him. However I'm not sure we'll be willing to pay an 8 figure salary for him and most likely, that's what he'll be asking for,

But we always knew there was a very slim chance of us keeping both Cruz and Nicks long term. We'll see how it goes.


It doens't matter what Nicks asks for, it matters what he will accept. PLUS, the team can apply the franchise tag as MS has pointed out.

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 02:19 PM
Blackburn was never a "priority", more like a necessity at times.

He was a priority enough for the Giants to offer him a contract for 2013. Just not one that Blackburn wanted.

Nicks may very well fall into that category come 2014. In fact, I think it quite likely.

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 02:20 PM
It doens't matter what Nicks asks for, it matters what he will accept. PLUS, the team can apply the franchise tag as MS has pointed out.

The franchise tag for receivers next year will be around $11 million. I doubt the Giants throw up the franchise tag (otherwise they'd just sign him).

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:23 PM
The franchise tag for receivers next year will be around $11 million. I doubt the Giants throw up the franchise tag (otherwise they'd just sign him).

A lot will depend on what kind of season Nicks has. If it is like last season, his value may be significantly diminished I am afraid.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:23 PM
Not if it's meaningless.

And do you really see the Giants tying up $20 million in two receivers over the next three to four years? I sure don't (no matter how much I would love having Nicks and Cruz together).
So yards and TD's are no longer a criteria for WR's.
What would you go by?.........height?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:24 PM
So yards and TD's are no longer a criteria for WR's.
What would you go by?.........height?

The Barden is THE MAN

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 02:26 PM
So yards and TD's are no longer a criteria for WR's.
What would you go by?.........height?

Well if you're going to be obtuse, I'll point out (again) that Nicks doesn't have the most of either over the past two years. Recent history being the *ONLY* criteria by which NFL talent is judged on in terms of long term, high paying contracts.

And you didn't answer my question ... do you see the Giants tying up $20 million on two receivers over the next three to four years?

NYGabriel
07-02-2013, 02:26 PM
I'd say Top 5 when 100%

Here is my opinionated top 10...and honestly after the top 3 it's really difficult to rank them

1. Calvin
2. AJ Green
3. B Marsh
4. Nicks
5. Julio
6. D Thomas
7. Dez
8. A Johnson
9. Roddy
10. Cruz

Honorable: Fitzy, VJax, Colston....

Nicks isn't better than Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. You have him at 4 but he could easily be 10 or lower. In 4 years he's had 2 good seasons and, even then, compared to others on your list they were hardly spectacular.

Ruttiger711
07-02-2013, 02:29 PM
the reason why RR is compared to Nicks is because RR runs the complete route tree, is deceptive in his downfield speed similar to nicks, has a physical ability to his play, both run solid routes...

the reason RR had lesser stats in college wasn't due to skill, but more so that style offense LSU ran. RR's last two years, he had 2 QBs splitting time due to inefficient play. And he still had games where he'd dominate.

I definitely see a strong similarity and saw the similarity coming out of college. RR's play at the end of the yr only strengthened that belief.

I personally couldn't think of a better thing than having TWO Nicks caliber WR's on the outside with Cruz on the inside alongside Myers working the check downs and DW threatening the run...we'd be unstoppable. literally unstoppable. we're about as close to that as is now, if RR can progress watch out.

In that regard, the addition of L.Murphy almost seems like overkill, like a toy we're gonna use just because, well because, we're stacked already. I guess he was more of a fail safe plan, still expect to see a lot of him don't get me wrong. But I dunno how u give him snaps if Randle is playing like he's Nicks...maybe outta the slot?

Just find it odd that we can hope for Randle to be an alternative to Nicks, but not once was he ever brought up to hopefully fill Cruz's shoes - since he runs the complete route tree and all.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:33 PM
Just find it odd that we can hope for Randle to be an alternative to Nicks, but not once was he ever brought up to hopefully fill Cruz's shoes - since he runs the complete route tree and all.

Randle is not a slot receiver and wasn't brought here for that purpose. Jernigan is better suited and backs up Cruz.

Again, no one is hoping Randle replaces Nicks. We are talking about the team's possible negotiating strategy.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:38 PM
Well if you're going to be obtuse, I'll point out (again) that Nicks doesn't have the most of either over the past two years. Recent history being the *ONLY* criteria by which NFL talent is judged on in terms of long term, high paying contracts.

And you didn't answer my question ... do you see the Giants tying up $20 million on two receivers over the next three to four years?
No I don't. Which is why I'm very concerned that we will overpay for Cruz.

Ruttiger711
07-02-2013, 02:41 PM
Randle is not a slot receiver and wasn't brought here for that purpose. Jernigan is better suited and backs up Cruz.

Again, no one is hoping Randle replaces Nicks. We are talking about the team's possible negotiating strategy.

No but the hope is there that he will be good enough to replace him if things don't work out salary wise. There's a difference.

He did ok when he was in - no better than Manningham did and I would never assume that Manningham would somehow evolve into a better receiver than Nicks. I just don't share the optimism or the rationalization on the amount of money spent on Cruz (which has yet to be seen), because somehow someway Randle could be just as good as Nicks.

We can hope all we want... like the draft day quote on Barden - "think - Plaxico Burress"

Rudyy
07-02-2013, 02:44 PM
I still hold on to the belief that RR was here to replace Manningham. Why would they draft him to potentially replace Nicks? Keep in mind this was after the Super Bowl and Manningham left, so I doubt the FO was looking at a receiver to potentially replace Nicks when Mario Manningham left.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:46 PM
No but the hope is there that he will be good enough to replace him if things don't work out salary wise. There's a difference.

He did ok when he was in - no better than Manningham did and I would never assume that Manningham would somehow evolve into a better receiver than Nicks. I just don't share the optimism or the rationalization on the amount of money spent on Cruz (which has yet to be seen), because somehow someway Randle could be just as good as Nicks.

We can hope all we want... like the draft day quote on Barden - "think - Plaxico Burress"

I hope Randle can replace Nicks and Jernigan can replace Cruz but when is to be determined. Suppose an injury occurs to either or both Nicks and Cruz requiring someone step up. Do we not want someone capable in the wings?

Neither Randle or Jernigan is poised to do that at this point and time.

You have to separate Cruz from Nicks in terms of their contracts.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:48 PM
I hope Randle can replace Nicks and Jernigan can replace Cruz but when is to be determined. Suppose an injury occurs to either or both Nicks and Cruz requiring someone step up. Do we not want someone capable in the wings?

Neither Randle or Jernigan is poised to do that at this point and time.

You have to separate Cruz from Nicks in terms of their contracts.
Well we want all our players to develop into the best players they can be.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:50 PM
I still hold on to the belief that RR was here to replace Manningham. Why would they draft him to potentially replace Nicks? Keep in mind this was after the Super Bowl and Manningham left, so I doubt the FO was looking at a receiver to potentially replace Nicks when Mario Manningham left.

This^

Manningham showed promise and he's playing somewhere else. If Nicks and Cruz stay healthy/productive let's hope they are both here until Eli retires.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 02:51 PM
Well we want all our players to develop into the best players they can be.

Exactly. And if Nicks returns to form they will try their best to keep him on board, including, as you have pointed out, using the franchise tag.

But having capable backups is important

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:55 PM
Exactly. And if Nicks returns to form they will try their best to keep him on board, including, as you have pointed out, using the franchise tag.

But having capable backups is important
Not sure anyone is disagreeing RF.

MattMeyerBud
07-02-2013, 02:55 PM
I think you're probably right.
We had a choice of who to offer the money to and it seems that JR has chosen Cruz. I get the durability issue with Nicks, but a broken foot is a broken foot. And even with some injuries, he has still had more yards and TD's than any WR in Giants history in his first 4 years as a pro.

What do u think Nicks would of signed for?

MattMeyerBud
07-02-2013, 02:56 PM
If Nicks is healthy, he IS a top 5 WR.
The franchise number is around $11MM for a WR.

That's this year

Ruttiger711
07-02-2013, 02:57 PM
Getting this discussion back on Cruz's signing - would a 4 yr 30/mil deal make him the highest paid #2 receiver?

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:57 PM
What do u think Nicks would of signed for?
More than Cruz but probably not a lot more.
Maybe $4 years, $40MM with $20MM guaranteed.

I do think that Nicks thinks he's going to have a huge year this season and will command a huge payday.
Blondie has expensive tastes.

MattMeyerBud
07-02-2013, 02:58 PM
I'd say Top 5 when 100%

Here is my opinionated top 10...and honestly after the top 3 it's really difficult to rank them

1. Calvin
2. AJ Green
3. B Marsh
4. Nicks
5. Julio
6. D Thomas
7. Dez
8. A Johnson
9. Roddy
10. Cruz

Honorable: Fitzy, VJax, Colston....

I love nicks, but ill take Julio, Andre, Calvin, And Green over him in a heartbeat. Possibly even Marshall

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 02:58 PM
Just find it odd that we can hope for Randle to be an alternative to Nicks, but not once was he ever brought up to hopefully fill Cruz's shoes - since he runs the complete route tree and all.i imagine we could use RR out of the slot. the question is, why? he can play on the perimeter, thats a HUGE ability in the NFL and why he gets the comparison to Nicks he does really.

MattMeyerBud
07-02-2013, 02:59 PM
More than Cruz but probably not a lot more.
Maybe $4 years, $40MM with $20MM guaranteed.

I do think that Nicks thinks he's going to have a huge year this season and will command a huge payday.
Blondie has expensive tastes.

I would of had a big problem, with that personally. That's what I want to give him if he proves himself this year.

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 02:59 PM
No but the hope is there that he will be good enough to replace him if things don't work out salary wise. There's a difference.

He did ok when he was in - no better than Manningham did and I would never assume that Manningham would somehow evolve into a better receiver than Nicks. I just don't share the optimism or the rationalization on the amount of money spent on Cruz (which has yet to be seen), because somehow someway Randle could be just as good as Nicks.

We can hope all we want... like the draft day quote on Barden - "think - Plaxico Burress"u think MM ever looked as good as randle did week 17 vs philly? maybe so, but def not his rookie year. i suspect RR is going to make those of us that still remember MM, forget all about him.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 02:59 PM
I love nicks, but ill take Julio, Andre, Calvin, And Green over him in a heartbeat. Possibly even Marshall
Well Fitz is #2 on that list. He just hasn't had a QB. Wait until Palmer starts dealing him the ball this year. He'll be 1500 yds plus.

I would put Nicks and J Jones at the same level.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:00 PM
I would of had a big problem, with that personally. That's what I want to give him if he proves himself this year.
If he has a big season, he's getting Wallace money.

MattMeyerBud
07-02-2013, 03:00 PM
This^

Manningham showed promise and he's playing somewhere else. If Nicks and Cruz stay healthy/productive let's hope they are both here until Eli retires.

He wasn't drafted to really replace anybody. Giants had a value on him in the second so they took him

Rudyy
07-02-2013, 03:01 PM
He wasn't drafted to really replace anybody. Giants had a value on him in the second so they took himHuh?

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 03:01 PM
Getting this discussion back on Cruz's signing - would a 4 yr 30/mil deal make him the highest paid #2 receiver?good question. i've maintained all along Cruz would be paid among the top #2 Wideouts when all was said n done.

MattMeyerBud
07-02-2013, 03:01 PM
Well Fitz is #2 on that list. He just hasn't had a QB. Wait until Palmer starts dealing him the ball this year. He'll be 1500 yds plus.

I would put Nicks and J Jones at the same level.

Fitz is in the category and he hasn't had a QB, but I still take all 4 over him.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:03 PM
He wasn't drafted to really replace anybody. Giants had a value on him in the second so they took him
That's pretty much true. The loss of MM did provide a bigger need, but he was taken because of his great value at the end of round 2.
It wasn't a "MM out and Randle in" deal.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:03 PM
Huh?

I don't think the Giants usually draft for immediate reward. Sometimes it works out that way.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:05 PM
Fitz is in the category and he hasn't had a QB, but I still take all 4 over him.
Just wait until this season.
He has a legit passer getting him the ball. He will be back in the conversation as the best WR in football, (except Megatron of course)

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:05 PM
I don't think the Giants usually draft for immediate reward. Sometimes it works out that way.
They don't usually but I think they tried this draft with Pugh, and I think they failed.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:06 PM
More than Cruz but probably not a lot more.
Maybe $4 years, $40MM with $20MM guaranteed.

I do think that Nicks thinks he's going to have a huge year this season and will command a huge payday.
Blondie has expensive tastes.

He has to get back to form to deserve those kinds of numbers.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:07 PM
They don't usually but I think they tried this draft with Pugh, and I think they failed.

I don't know if they failed, but they didn't release Diehl.

TheAnalyst
07-02-2013, 03:09 PM
They don't usually but I think they tried this draft with Pugh, and I think they failed.

Im not a huge fan of the pick for the spot he was picked. I thought he would of been a good early 2nd round pick, 2nd pick. Not where we picked him. Too many OL went before us. It felt way too much like a "We are taking an OLman no matter what" kinda pick. Then again, I thought the same exact thing last year with Wilson after the Bucs jumped us for Martin. Hopefully Wilson explodes this year.

I really hope us not taking Ogletree doesnt hurt us.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:10 PM
He has to get back to form to deserve those kinds of numbers.
If he has big numbers this season (and I think he will) he will get a lot more.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:11 PM
Im not a huge fan of the pick for the spot he was picked. I thought he would of been a good early 2nd round pick, 2nd pick. Not where we picked him. Too many OL went before us. It felt way too much like a "We are taking an OLman no matter what" kinda pick. Then again, I thought the same exact thing last year with Wilson after the Bucs jumped us for Martin. Hopefully Wilson explodes this year.

I really hope us not taking Ogletree doesnt hurt us.
I think that was exactly what they did.
They were going O line no matter who was left on their board. And they were willing to pass on great prospects to do it.

I disagree on Ogeltree though.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:11 PM
If he has big numbers this season (and I think he will) he will get a lot more.

Yes, but from whom?? You're thoughts on the franchise tag may well pan out.

MattMeyerBud
07-02-2013, 03:13 PM
I think that was exactly what they did.
They were going O line no matter who was left on their board. And they were willing to pass on great prospects to do it.

False, they liked him and bears were going to take him after us.

Sorry he wasn't high on your draft board. And ogle tree is going to blow

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 03:16 PM
No I don't. Which is why I'm very concerned that we will overpay for Cruz.

I'm assuming Cruz is going to end up making $8M / year, 4 years, $20M guaranteed. Somewhere in that neighborhood (assuming we sign him).

Is that overpaying for Cruz in your mind?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:17 PM
I'm assuming Cruz is going to end up making $8M / year, 4 years, $20M guaranteed. Somewhere in that neighborhood (assuming we sign him).

Is that overpaying for Cruz in your mind?

Is this a rhetorical question? lol

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:17 PM
False, they liked him and bears were going to take him after us.

Sorry he wasn't high on your draft board. And ogle tree is going to blow
Both the Bears and us reached into the second round to draft an O lineman.
Just because the Bears were stupid as well, isn't an excuse.
The kid is a second round prospect. JR was shocked that Fluker was gone and he chose unwisely.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:18 PM
I'm assuming Cruz is going to end up making $8M / year, 4 years, $20M guaranteed. Somewhere in that neighborhood (assuming we sign him).

Is that overpaying for Cruz in your mind?
Oh God yes!

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:19 PM
Both the Bears and us reached into the second round to draft an O lineman.
Just because the Bears were stupid as well, isn't an excuse.
The kid is a second round prospect. JR was shocked that Fluker was gone and he chose unwisely.

Maybe we should wait and see how Pugh plays?

GameTime
07-02-2013, 03:20 PM
Maybe we should wait and see how Pugh plays?

cant do that Ro...
first Reese has to be bashed for his choice and then Pugh has to be shot down before he even steps on the field for camp.....:eek:

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 03:20 PM
Is this a rhetorical question? lol

Nope ... totally honest question.

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:21 PM
cant do that Ro...
first Reese has to be bashed for his choice and then Pugh has to be shot down before he even steps on the field for camp.....:eek:

That always confuses me :confused:

TheAnalyst
07-02-2013, 03:21 PM
False, they liked him and bears were going to take him after us.

Sorry he wasn't high on your draft board. And ogle tree is going to blow

Ok... Can you tell me the lotto numbers for tomorrow too?

Im not saying Pugh will be a bust, Jerry is normally solid with first round picks, I just didnt think he was worthy a first round pick. He wasnt a dominant OL in college. I watched him every week being a Cuse fan. After the season, he wasnt even a 4th round pick, then he soared up the boards in the offseason whioch is something I always hate.

And I wouldnt be surprised if Coughlin pulled a few strings as well for him repping the Orange.

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 03:21 PM
Oh God yes!

In that case, be prepared to be disappointed. The Giants have already offered him that neighborhood.

Out of curiosity, what you expected them to retain Cruz at?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:22 PM
Nope ... totally honest question.

I ask because MS has been strident in his thoughts on Cruz's contract terms.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 03:23 PM
I ask because MS has been strident in his thoughts on Cruz's contract terms.

MS is strident whith ALL his thoughts.....:cool:

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:23 PM
Ok... Can you tell me the lotto numbers for tomorrow too?

Im not saying Pugh will be a bust, Jerry is normally solid with first round picks, I just didnt think he was worthy a first round pick. He wasnt a dominant OL in college. I watched him every week being a Cuse fan. After the season, he wasnt even a 4th round pick, then he soared up the boards in the offseason whioch is something I always hate.

Wouldn't we have to know what they were thinking when the drafted him? Were they thinking RT? RG? Versatile lineman like a young Diehl?

Kruunch
07-02-2013, 03:24 PM
I ask because MS has been strident in his thoughts on Cruz's contract terms.

Yeah I caught some of that, but I chalk most of that up to slow days at work. ;)

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:25 PM
MS is strident whith ALL his thoughts.....:cool:

I stand corrected

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:25 PM
cant do that Ro...
first Reese has to be bashed for his choice and then Pugh has to be shot down before he even steps on the field for camp.....:eek:
Its not a matter of waiting to see how well Pugh plays. I assume a second round type O lineman will become a starter after he's developed. Its a matter of passing on Sharieff Floyd, Xavier Rhodes, Desmond Trufant etc......
Real top prospects that fell in our lap when teams got desperate for O linemen and reached all over the first round for them.
In a very un-JR-like move....instead of taking advantage of the foolishness of others (like drafting Prince) he fell into the same trap.

TheAnalyst
07-02-2013, 03:26 PM
Wouldn't we have to know what they were thinking when the drafted him? Were they thinking RT? RG? Versatile lineman like a young Diehl?

Sure, he reminds me of Diehl. But is that worth a top 20 pick? Diehl was a 5th rounder no?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:26 PM
Yeah I caught some of that, but I chalk most of that up to slow days at work. ;)

MS is a true fan

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:26 PM
In that case, be prepared to be disappointed. The Giants have already offered him that neighborhood.

Out of curiosity, what you expected them to retain Cruz at?
I've been prepared for disappointment on this for a few months now.
I'm convinced that we will overpay for Cruz, thus hurting our chances to keep Nicks.


And I've said for months....4 to 5 years, $25 to $28MM with $11 to $13MM guaranteed.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 03:26 PM
Its not a matter of waiting to see how well Pugh plays. I assume a second round type O lineman will become a starter after he's developed. Its a matter of passing on Sharieff Floyd, Xavier Rhodes, Desmond Trufant etc......
Real top prospects that fell in our lap when teams got desperate for O linemen and reached all over the first round for them.
In a very un-JR-like move....instead of taking advantage of the foolishness of others (like drafting Prince) he fell into the same trap.
he didnt fall into a trap he had a reason for doing what he did. he wanted an olineman...no traps just a process

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:27 PM
Sure, he reminds me of Diehl. But is that worth a top 20 pick? Diehl was a 5th rounder no?

I'm just asking what they had in mind because I sure don't know. But I don't think it was a throw of the dart either.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 03:28 PM
Sure, he reminds me of Diehl. But is that worth a top 20 pick? Diehl was a 5th rounder no?
to JR it was worth it

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 03:29 PM
Ok... Can you tell me the lotto numbers for tomorrow too?

Im not saying Pugh will be a bust, Jerry is normally solid with first round picks, I just didnt think he was worthy a first round pick. He wasnt a dominant OL in college. I watched him every week being a Cuse fan. After the season, he wasnt even a 4th round pick, then he soared up the boards in the offseason whioch is something I always hate.

And I wouldnt be surprised if Coughlin pulled a few strings as well for him repping the Orange.yeah, no sacks and like 1/2 a pressure in what, 2 yrs...not dominant...as a LT...vs high level compeition that went onto be 1rst rd selections in other draft classes.

fact is, JR actually hit a home run with this pick. if Pugh had the arm length (sad but true) of the first 2 or 3 OT taken, Pugh woulda been the 2nd overall OT taken maybe threaten for first. He moves as well if not better than any other OT in the class, he played with the best technique/awareness of angles or at least he was as good as the first couple OT taken. He is athletic. he also (and this is HUGE imho) grew up playing hockey and football as an OL.

The Eagles took a guy 4th overall who was a QB all but his last 2 yrs that his college team moved to OT bc he was an athletic freak, 2 yrs on a stacked OL is all the experience he has had. His athleticism measured through the roof, but athleticism gets coaches fired (or was it potential i confuse the two). I see that Eagles pick as WAY WAY WAY more of a forced, risky pick than us taking Pugh at 19. And I know the results will pan out.

He also played 1 yr injured, and didnt miss a game or concede a sack either...

TheAnalyst
07-02-2013, 03:29 PM
he didnt fall into a trap he had a reason for doing what he did. he wanted an olineman...no traps just a process

Drafting for need is a death sentence IMO. Pass up too many other higher probability players.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:30 PM
he didnt fall into a trap he had a reason for doing what he did. he wanted an olineman...no traps just a process
Plenty of O linemen in the draft where they could have drafted value. He reached into the second round for Pugh.
I have said and still do that we should sign Eric Winston (who won't be a big cap hit) and solidify our O line this season. With Nicks, Cruz and Randle, with Meyers, with Wilson and Brown, along with a solid O line, this is the year.
We can develop Pugh and not rush him out there.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:31 PM
yeah, no sacks and like 1/2 a pressure in what, 2 yrs...not dominant...as a LT...vs high level compeition that went onto be 1rst rd selections in other draft classes.

fact is, JR actually hit a home run with this pick. if Pugh had the arm length (sad but true) of the first 2 or 3 OT taken, Pugh woulda been the 2nd overall OT taken maybe threaten for first. He moves as well if not better than any other OT in the class, he played with the best technique/awareness of angles or at least he was as good as the first couple OT taken. He is athletic. he also (and this is HUGE imho) grew up playing hockey and football as an OL.

The Eagles took a guy 4th overall who was a QB all but his last 2 yrs that his college team moved to OT bc he was an athletic freak, 2 yrs on a stacked OL is all the experience he has had. His athleticism measured through the roof, but athleticism gets coaches fired (or was it potential i confuse the two). I see that Eagles pick as WAY WAY WAY more of a forced, risky pick than us taking Pugh at 19. And I know the results will pan out.

He also played 1 yr injured, and didnt miss a game or concede a sack either...

Did you see him get knocked on his *** in the Senior Bowl against real pass rushers and not guys from UConn.

BTW...I love UConn.

giantsfan420
07-02-2013, 03:31 PM
I can admit I didnt know much about him predraft. But Im not too proud to admit that doesnt mean the pick was bad or something bc of that fact. Once I learned what JR and Co knew and understood of Pugh, I have been completely on board. The guy is made to be an OL. U see it in his play. This guys gonna be a staple of our OL the next 10 yrs, I'd stake the proverbial "ability to post on the MB" on it

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:33 PM
I can admit I didnt know much about him predraft. But Im not too proud to admit that doesnt mean the pick was bad or something bc of that fact. Once I learned what JR and Co knew and understood of Pugh, I have been completely on board. The guy is made to be an OL. U see it in his play. This guys gonna be a staple of our OL the next 10 yrs, I'd stake the proverbial "ability to post on the MB" on it
Please don't put me in a position to root against him.

TheAnalyst
07-02-2013, 03:34 PM
yeah, no sacks and like 1/2 a pressure in what, 2 yrs...not dominant...as a LT...vs high level compeition that went onto be 1rst rd selections in other draft classes.

fact is, JR actually hit a home run with this pick. if Pugh had the arm length (sad but true) of the first 2 or 3 OT taken, Pugh woulda been the 2nd overall OT taken maybe threaten for first. He moves as well if not better than any other OT in the class, he played with the best technique/awareness of angles or at least he was as good as the first couple OT taken. He is athletic. he also (and this is HUGE imho) grew up playing hockey and football as an OL.

The Eagles took a guy 4th overall who was a QB all but his last 2 yrs that his college team moved to OT bc he was an athletic freak, 2 yrs on a stacked OL is all the experience he has had. His athleticism measured through the roof, but athleticism gets coaches fired (or was it potential i confuse the two). I see that Eagles pick as WAY WAY WAY more of a forced, risky pick than us taking Pugh at 19. And I know the results will pan out.

He also played 1 yr injured, and didnt miss a game or concede a sack either...

I wouldnt say he played against the best. See him at the senior game? He was abused by a guy named Washington from Georgia. ABUSED. He wasnt strong enough to stop him. This DE Washington went in like the 5th round. Cuse didnt play a bunch of good teams with good DEs last year.

I dont even think about the arm length, thats dumb stuff.

I think Pugh can be solid, just not a 1st round talent at OL. He wont be better then Beatty IMO. But he should be our RT for a while anyway, maybe by default like Herz might be our starting MLB by default.

Eliscruzzz
07-02-2013, 03:36 PM
yeah, no sacks and like 1/2 a pressure in what, 2 yrs...not dominant...as a LT...vs high level compeition that went onto be 1rst rd selections in other draft classes.

fact is, JR actually hit a home run with this pick. if Pugh had the arm length (sad but true) of the first 2 or 3 OT taken, Pugh woulda been the 2nd overall OT taken maybe threaten for first. He moves as well if not better than any other OT in the class, he played with the best technique/awareness of angles or at least he was as good as the first couple OT taken. He is athletic. he also (and this is HUGE imho) grew up playing hockey and football as an OL.

The Eagles took a guy 4th overall who was a QB all but his last 2 yrs that his college team moved to OT bc he was an athletic freak, 2 yrs on a stacked OL is all the experience he has had. His athleticism measured through the roof, but athleticism gets coaches fired (or was it potential i confuse the two). I see that Eagles pick as WAY WAY WAY more of a forced, risky pick than us taking Pugh at 19. And I know the results will pan out.

He also played 1 yr injured, and didnt miss a game or concede a sack either...I think he was selected right where he should've been. All those other guys played better competition. I would still take Joekel, Fischer, Johnson and Kyle Long over him.

Yeah Reese did do good by getting him though.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:38 PM
I wouldnt say he played against the best. See him at the senior game? He was abused by a guy named Washington from Georgia. ABUSED. He wasnt strong enough to stop him. This DE Washington went in like the 5th round. Cuse didnt play a bunch of good teams with good DEs last year.

I dont even think about the arm length, thats dumb stuff.

I think Pugh can be solid, just not a 1st round talent at OL. He wont be better then Beatty IMO. But he should be our RT for a while anyway, maybe by default like Herz might be our starting MLB by default.

And I'll bet he ends up playing guard.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 03:38 PM
well I am saving my opinion of Pugh after I get to actually see what he does in the NFL. If he pans out great then some of you will be wrong. If he doesnt then you can claim you knew it.
As of this point in time the kid has his opportunity to show what he can do on an NFL level .

Eliscruzzz
07-02-2013, 03:39 PM
I wouldnt say he played against the best. See him at the senior game? He was abused by a guy named Washington from Georgia. ABUSED. He wasnt strong enough to stop him. This DE Washington went in like the 5th round. Cuse didnt play a bunch of good teams with good DEs last year.

I dont even think about the arm length, thats dumb stuff.

I think Pugh can be solid, just not a 1st round talent at OL. He wont be better then Beatty IMO. But he should be our RT for a while anyway, maybe by default like Herz might be our starting MLB by default.I really thought the Giants were taking a DE there or a CB there. That was a pretty deep CB class and Webster is on the decline. I would've went CB since it's so important to PF's scheme.

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:40 PM
well I am saving my opinion of Pugh after I get to actually see what he does in the NFL. If he pans out great then some of you will be wrong. If he doesnt then you can claim you knew it.
As of this point in time the kid has his opportunity to show what he can do on an NFL level .
You have to compare him to the guys who we passed on to draft him.

TheAnalyst
07-02-2013, 03:41 PM
I really thought the Giants were taking a DE there or a CB there. That was a pretty deep CB class and Webster is on the decline. I would've went CB since it's so important to PF's scheme.

There were some good ones there... CWeb Ross and T2 are all done after this year IMO. Leaves us Prince and Hosely.

Eliscruzzz
07-02-2013, 03:41 PM
You have to compare him to the guys who we passed on to draft him.There was a lot too. I was shocked by the pick...but hey maybe he might turn out to be the real deal

GameTime
07-02-2013, 03:42 PM
You have to compare him to the guys who we passed on to draft him.

nah...I am a fan. I dont have to compare him to naybody. If he winds up at RT or G and does a great job then I couldn't care less about the rest of the BS I have no control over. My job as a fan doesn't effect when guys get drafted or why. "No my prolem meng"

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:44 PM
There were some good ones there... CWeb Ross and T2 are all done after this year IMO. Leaves us Prince and Hosely.
We could have had Prince and Rhodes for the foreseeable future.

Eliscruzzz
07-02-2013, 03:45 PM
There were some good ones there... CWeb Ross and T2 are all done after this year IMO. Leaves us Prince and Hosely.I really thought they were going take Trufant. He was on the board Rhodes was still there and Banks. You have to at least have someone across from Prince. I really don't like the corners this year but we'll wait for the college season to start.

GameTime
07-02-2013, 03:49 PM
I really thought they were going take Trufant. He was on the board Rhodes was still there and Banks. You have to at least have someone across from Prince. I really don't like the corners this year but we'll wait for the college season to start.
if they were so good why were they still on the board at 20???

Morehead State
07-02-2013, 03:50 PM
if they were so good why were they still on the board at 20???
Are you really asking that?

RoanokeFan
07-02-2013, 03:52 PM
You have to compare him to the guys who we passed on to draft him.

Shouldn't we compare him to the role they envisioned he'd fill?