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View Full Version : 5 Giants, Including Tom Coughlin, Would Headline NFC East All-Pro Team



RoanokeFan
07-04-2013, 05:27 PM
http://www.bigblueview.com/2013/7/4/4492062/new-york-giants-nfc-east-all-pro-team-tom-coughlin-hakeem-nicks-jason-pierre-paul

Excerpt: "Tom Coughlin, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Jason Pierre-Paul and Antrel Rolle would be a part of an NFC East All-Pro Team, according to NFL.com.

NFL.com blogger Dave Dameshek had an idea: What if each division had its own All-Pro team (http://davedameshek.nfl.com/2013/07/03/division-by-division-all-pro-teams/)?In the NFC East's All-Pro team, the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants) had five representatives, including coach Tom Coughlin. Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks) and Victor Cruz (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/109584/victor-cruz) were selected as two of the three wide receivers, while Jason Pierre-Paul (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/108442/jason-pierre-paul) and Antrel Rolle (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1769/antrel-rolle) would be on the defense.

At quarterback, Dameshek went with RGIII over Eli Manning (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2235/eli-manning), a decision that may be a bit "prisoner of the moment." Manning, of course, has two Super Bowl (http://www.sbnation.com/super-bowl) rings to his name, while RGIII is the reigning Rookie of the Year and considered to be a part of the next wave of elite quarterbacks.

At this point in time, however, it's Manning who is the more proven quarterback." Read more...

Toadofsteel
07-04-2013, 05:31 PM
I would have taken Manning over RG3 easily... especially with the injury concerns still a big issue for the latter. Also, with that OL and Alfred Morris or McCoy, Manning would have a lot easier time as well...

RoanokeFan
07-04-2013, 05:33 PM
Hard to imagine RGIII beating out Eli at this stage in their careers.

B&RWarrior
07-04-2013, 05:37 PM
RG3 won't make it through the season in that offense. I'm not wishing bad things for the kid, I'm just stating the facts. The kid takes way too many hits in that offense. I wish they would have changed the offense and taught him how to be a traditional drop back QB, but hey if they want to turn him into a tackling dummy we will oblige and lay his ***** out.

Toadofsteel
07-04-2013, 05:46 PM
RG3 won't make it through the season in that offense. I'm not wishing bad things for the kid, I'm just stating the facts. The kid takes way too many hits in that offense. I wish they would have changed the offense and taught him how to be a traditional drop back QB, but hey if they want to turn him into a tackling dummy we will oblige and lay his ***** out.

It makes me wonder if they just signed Griffin to be a win-now QB, while they secretly groom Cousins...

GameTime
07-04-2013, 06:16 PM
RG over Eli........dumb

RoanokeFan
07-04-2013, 06:31 PM
RG over Eli........dumb

That really seems a far fetch. Plus who knows how his recovery is really going and how his mobility might be affected?

Drez
07-04-2013, 08:32 PM
Not only is RGIII over Eli dumb, Prince should certainly get the nod over Claiborne. I'd say Beatty over Peters, too. Peters didn't even play last year as he tore the same Achilles tendon twice.

TheAnalyst
07-04-2013, 08:41 PM
Thats more like Probowl team of the NFC East. JPP wasnt that good last year, Nicks wasnt either with his injury. If we are talking careers no way its RGIII over Eli. That makes no sense. RG3 is the Probowl QB of the divison though because the fans want to see the most exciting players, and RG3 is a lot more exciting to watch, when he isnt on crutches.

B&RWarrior
07-04-2013, 09:49 PM
Not only is RGIII over Eli dumb, Prince should certainly get the nod over Claiborne. I'd say Beatty over Peters, too. Peters didn't even play last year as he tore the same Achilles tendon twice.

Hell no! Peters may be the best in the game when healthy.

Drez
07-04-2013, 10:11 PM
Hell no! Peters may be the best in the game when healthy.He's good, but he didn't play at all last year and had two tears in the same Achilles. If you're talking about an All-Pro NFCE team from last year/this year, how can you honestly have Peters in it?

giants8493
07-05-2013, 12:36 AM
He's good, but he didn't play at all last year and had two tears in the same Achilles. If you're talking about an All-Pro NFCE team from last year/this year, how can you honestly have Peters in it?Thats a great point. If the criteria was Right now then Peters should not be in it. BUT if it was for career than he would be but than obviously Eli should have gotten in over rgIII. So what was it based on?

B&RWarrior
07-05-2013, 01:04 AM
He's good, but he didn't play at all last year and had two tears in the same Achilles. If you're talking about an All-Pro NFCE team from last year/this year, how can you honestly have Peters in it?

That's a valid point. The Achilles could change the kind of player he can be too. It's one of the worst injuries a football player can have.

BlueSanta
07-05-2013, 01:25 AM
What I find humorous is every year the Cowboys have a TON of people voted into the pro bowl. Yet, if you have an NFC east all star team they don't fair nearly as well. So people think they are these players are the best in the NFL but not the best in the NFC East.

kfelgigiants
07-05-2013, 01:43 AM
I couldn't believe that. But ya know rg3 is the one with two superbowls right...

penguinfarmer
07-05-2013, 07:14 AM
It makes me wonder if they just signed Griffin to be a win-now QB, while they secretly groom Cousins...

Yes they traded three firsts and a third for a stop gap.

Drez
07-05-2013, 07:31 AM
What I find humorous is every year the Cowboys have a TON of people voted into the pro bowl. Yet, if you have an NFC east all star team they don't fair nearly as well. So people think they are these players are the best in the NFL but not the best in the NFC East. You didn't read the whole article, did you? The Cowboys led all teams with nine players selected.

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 08:29 AM
Not only is RGIII over Eli dumb, Prince should certainly get the nod over Claiborne. I'd say Beatty over Peters, too. Peters didn't even play last year as he tore the same Achilles tendon twice.+1

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 08:34 AM
RG3 over Eli?? Shoot I would take Romo over RG3 and I'm serious. RG3 would have been nothing without Morris. I am still skeptical that he can read defenses good and play from the pocket and sure cannot do it better then Eli.

The media is pushing this guy so hard it is sickening. I mean the guy has a commercial that he's coming back week one...really? I'm gonna laugh when RG3 struggles this year and everybody slows down on the hype.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 08:55 AM
How does Rolle make an all pro team?

EliDaMANning
07-05-2013, 09:01 AM
[QUOTE=Eliscruzzz;797449]RG3 over Eli?? Shoot I would take Romo over RG3 and I'm serious. RG3 would have been nothing without Morris. [QUOTE] Not a knock on Morris, but he wouldn't be putting up anywhere close the numbers without RG3.

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 09:11 AM
I understand why they picked RG3....

The only reason:

Eli is going to be fresh after "Bob" wrecks his knee late first quarter.

Good thinking!

B&RWarrior
07-05-2013, 09:13 AM
RG3 over Eli?? Shoot I would take Romo over RG3 and I'm serious. RG3 would have been nothing without Morris. I am still skeptical that he can read defenses good and play from the pocket and sure cannot do it better then Eli.

The media is pushing this guy so hard it is sickening. I mean the guy has a commercial that he's coming back week one...really? I'm gonna laugh when RG3 struggles this year and everybody slows down on the hype.

He won't struggle in that offense. It will be difficult to stay healthy though.

I'd take Romo over most QBs in the NFL. I'd take him in the first 3 quarters over Eli. Boom, and I just started a fire.

GameTime
07-05-2013, 09:15 AM
He won't struggle in that offense. It will be difficult to stay healthy though.

I'd take Romo over most QBs in the NFL. I'd take him in the first 3 quarters over Eli. Boom, and I just started a fire.
and then lose in the 4th quarter......lol

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 09:45 AM
and then lose in the 4th quarter......lol+1

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 09:46 AM
[QUOTE=Eliscruzzz;797449]RG3 over Eli?? Shoot I would take Romo over RG3 and I'm serious. RG3 would have been nothing without Morris. [QUOTE] Not a knock on Morris, but he wouldn't be putting up anywhere close the numbers without RG3.same could be said for RG3 too.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 09:56 AM
RGIII will have to learn how to slide or get out of bounds, but he will be fine and a threat in this conference.

jomo
07-05-2013, 09:59 AM
http://www.bigblueview.com/2013/7/4/4492062/new-york-giants-nfc-east-all-pro-team-tom-coughlin-hakeem-nicks-jason-pierre-paul

Excerpt: "Tom Coughlin, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Jason Pierre-Paul and Antrel Rolle would be a part of an NFC East All-Pro Team, according to NFL.com.

NFL.com blogger Dave Dameshek had an idea: What if each division had its own All-Pro team (http://davedameshek.nfl.com/2013/07/03/division-by-division-all-pro-teams/)?In the NFC East's All-Pro team, the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants) had five representatives, including coach Tom Coughlin. Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks) and Victor Cruz (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/109584/victor-cruz) were selected as two of the three wide receivers, while Jason Pierre-Paul (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/108442/jason-pierre-paul) and Antrel Rolle (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1769/antrel-rolle) would be on the defense.

At quarterback, Dameshek went with RGIII over Eli Manning (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2235/eli-manning), a decision that may be a bit "prisoner of the moment." Manning, of course, has two Super Bowl (http://www.sbnation.com/super-bowl) rings to his name, while RGIII is the reigning Rookie of the Year and considered to be a part of the next wave of elite quarterbacks.

At this point in time, however, it's Manning who is the more proven quarterback." Read more...
Nice idea Dave, it is thinking like that which gives a trophy to everyone who participated in an event and is ashamed to declare a valedictorian at the end of 4 years of study. We don't really need more all pro's to water it down, confuse fans and distort historical honors.

Ntegrase96
07-05-2013, 11:21 AM
What I find humorous is every year the Cowboys have a TON of people voted into the pro bowl. Yet, if you have an NFC east all star team they don't fair nearly as well. So people think they are these players are the best in the NFL but not the best in the NFC East.

It's actually quite the opposite.

Ntegrase96
07-05-2013, 11:22 AM
Prince should certainly get the nod over Claiborne. .

This is one of the more obvious choices. Prince>Claiborne at this point.

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 11:27 AM
RGIII will have to learn how to slide or get out of bounds, but he will be fine and a threat in this conference.He may be a threat but in no way should be ahead of Eli or Romo for. Let's see how he does when defenses adjust and have a full year to prepare.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 11:35 AM
Some make it sound like RGIII is so one dimensional. He can run and throw. He will be very hard to defend for a very long time. He doesn't get hurt they may have made a serious run at the Super Bowl. Not saying he should be picked ahead of Eli.

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 11:43 AM
Some make it sound like RGIII is so one dimensional. He can run and throw. He will be very hard to defend for a very long time. He doesn't get hurt they may have made a serious run at the Super Bowl. Not saying he should be picked ahead of Eli.Seriously, RG3 can throw I know this, but he is running a gimmick offense. He's not reading defenses.He's not making presnap reads( except for the obvious ones). He basically has one read, one on one coverage all over the field cause of their running game. If the wr is open he throws, if he's not he either hands it off to Morris or takes of and runs. Everyone thought Cam was going to be a beast this year but looked at what happened when teams adjusted. I just don't think RG3 can sit in the pocket and throw 30 times a game yet if he had to. I have more faith in Wilson, Luck, or Kaepernick to do that.

Rudyy
07-05-2013, 11:44 AM
The biggest concern surrounding RGIII is his health. I think he missed an entire season at Baylor from an ACL. First year in the NFL, he was very impressive, but got hurt.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 11:49 AM
He really was. Seriously, if he doesn't get hurt they probably beat Seattle and move on in the playoffs.

JayMas9
07-05-2013, 11:49 AM
Antrel Rolle on an all division team? Dear lord...

Claiborne wasn't even the best corner on his team.

JayMas9
07-05-2013, 11:50 AM
And I think RG3 is a true talent, but to put him ahead of Eli Manning, when Eli has the resume he has, is pretty ridiculous.

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 11:51 AM
He really was. Seriously, if he doesn't get hurt they probably beat Seattle and move on in the playoffs.You can't play the what if's man, they lost. That's like saying if GB doesn't drop those passes in the playoff game against us we lose....

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 11:52 AM
And I think RG3 is a true talent, but to put him ahead of Eli Manning, when Eli has the resume he has, is pretty ridiculous.Ridiculous is not even the word for it.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 11:56 AM
They had a 14 point lead before he left the game. He doesn't leave the game they win.

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 12:02 PM
They had a 14 point lead before he left the game. He doesn't leave the game they win.that's ridiculous. They came back with him in the game and won the game. You can say what if's for anything but the fact is they lost.

Imgrate
07-05-2013, 12:06 PM
They had a 14 point lead before he left the game. He doesn't leave the game they win.But that's what you get with that style of QB. A heightened chance of injury that can and will cost you games.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 12:11 PM
That's why he needs to learn how to slide and get out of bounds which they are most likely working on.

Imgrate
07-05-2013, 12:18 PM
That's why he needs to learn how to slide and get out of bounds which they are most likely working on.They're probably still working on rehabbing his knee

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 12:27 PM
Think he is already sprinting.

Imgrate
07-05-2013, 12:29 PM
Think he is already sprinting.Which is part of rehab. Cutting and landing(sliding) on it are the last stages

Drez
07-05-2013, 02:32 PM
How does Rolle make an all pro team? Because safety play in the NFCE sucks

boozeking88
07-05-2013, 04:14 PM
Seriously, RG3 can throw I know this, but he is running a gimmick offense. He's not reading defenses.He's not making presnap reads( except for the obvious ones). He basically has one read, one on one coverage all over the field cause of their running game. If the wr is open he throws, if he's not he either hands it off to Morris or takes of and runs. Everyone thought Cam was going to be a beast this year but looked at what happened when teams adjusted. I just don't think RG3 can sit in the pocket and throw 30 times a game yet if he had to. I have more faith in Wilson, Luck, or Kaepernick to do that.

What did happen to Cam? Nothing really. There's been a huge misconception of Cam Newton. Cam Newton's season was relatively close to his rookie year.

Rookie year- 4051 yards, 21 TDs, 17 int, 60%, 84.5 qbr, 709 rushing yards & 14 rushing TDs.

Sophomore year- 3869 yards, 19 TDs, 12 int, 57.7%, 86.2 qbr, 741 rushing yards & 8 rushing TDs.

Cam didn't hit a sophomore slump of any kind. I would still take Cam Newton over RG3 and Wilson as well. Cam Newton had to embrace the role of a franchise QB at a more difficult level than RG3 and Wilson. Cam was asked to do it all. He was the teams QB and RB. Cam led his team in rushing yards and rushing TDs. He didn't have the benefit of 1500-1600 yard rushers to take the pressure off of him like RG3 and Wilson (or a #1 scoring defense like Wilson). Granted, RG3 did help create that rushing game opening up holes for Morris because of his scrambling ability. But, Morris also created a lot of plays himself breaking tackles and being the top 3 in yards after contact. So it was more of a symbiotic relationship and both benefited. I'm not even going to mention how bad the Panthers play calling was. Chud was so stubborn trying to force the read option when apparently it wasn't a good fit.

So I wouldn't say defenses adjusted to Cam like he hit a sophomore slump or anything. He still had a good year comparable to his rookie season. He just got lost in all the RG3, Wilson, and Luck Hype.

But to the main point, it's wait and see with me for Rg3. I don't put much stock into one season.

jomo
07-05-2013, 05:18 PM
Because safety play in the NFCE sucksThat is why the premise of this thread is so dumb. You don't pick all pros for each division. You are watering it down to the point of making the label meaningless.

Now if you want to argue who is the best (name a position) in the NFC east, that is fine but leave the redefined "All Pro" tag out of the discussion.

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 05:21 PM
What did happen to Cam? Nothing really. There's been a huge misconception of Cam Newton. Cam Newton's season was relatively close to his rookie year.

Rookie year- 4051 yards, 21 TDs, 17 int, 60%, 84.5 qbr, 709 rushing yards & 14 rushing TDs.

Sophomore year- 3869 yards, 19 TDs, 12 int, 57.7%, 86.2 qbr, 741 rushing yards & 8 rushing TDs.

Cam didn't hit a sophomore slump of any kind. I would still take Cam Newton over RG3 and Wilson as well. Cam Newton had to embrace the role of a franchise QB at a more difficult level than RG3 and Wilson. Cam was asked to do it all. He was the teams QB and RB. Cam led his team in rushing yards and rushing TDs. He didn't have the benefit of 1500-1600 yard rushers to take the pressure off of him like RG3 and Wilson (or a #1 scoring defense like Wilson). Granted, RG3 did help create that rushing game opening up holes for Morris because of his scrambling ability. But, Morris also created a lot of plays himself breaking tackles and being the top 3 in yards after contact. So it was more of a symbiotic relationship and both benefited. I'm not even going to mention how bad the Panthers play calling was. Chud was so stubborn trying to force the read option when apparently it wasn't a good fit.

So I wouldn't say defenses adjusted to Cam like he hit a sophomore slump or anything. He still had a good year comparable to his rookie season. He just got lost in all the RG3, Wilson, and Luck Hype.

But to the main point, it's wait and see with me for Rg3. I don't put much stock into one season.He played a lot of weak teams too. I don't think he got lost in their hype.... he didn't play well in the beginning of the season. Really he was God awful. To me Cam is a better player then RG3 cause he has shown he can play from the pocket. RG3 hasn't . When teams did prepare for Cam the shut his running ability down. They had a full year of tape on him...he definitely had to make adjustments to the NFL and to his credit he did towards the end of the season. His stats don't really tell the truth on how he played all year.

Drez
07-05-2013, 07:15 PM
That is why the premise of this thread is so dumb. You don't pick all pros for each division. You are watering it down to the point of making the label meaningless.

Now if you want to argue who is the best (name a position) in the NFC east, that is fine but leave the redefined "All Pro" tag out of the discussion.You do realize it's July, right? lol I mean, these guys have to write about something!

jomo
07-05-2013, 07:55 PM
You do realize it's July, right? lol I mean, these guys have to write about something!lol yes I am just getting antsy. If I were a walk on offensive lineman I'd be picking a fight with the entire defense right now. We need real football and we need it soon!

miked1958
07-05-2013, 07:57 PM
Hard to imagine RGIII beating out Eli at this stage in their careers.agreed

Drez
07-05-2013, 07:58 PM
lol yes I am just getting antsy. If I were a walk on offensive lineman I'd be picking a fight with the entire defense right now. We need real football and we need it soon!I hear you there, Brother Jomo.

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 08:30 PM
You do realize it's July, right? lol I mean, these guys have to write about something!

Recipes for tailgating would be an improvement me thinks

giantsfan420
07-06-2013, 01:46 AM
What did happen to Cam? Nothing really. There's been a huge misconception of Cam Newton. Cam Newton's season was relatively close to his rookie year.

Rookie year- 4051 yards, 21 TDs, 17 int, 60%, 84.5 qbr, 709 rushing yards & 14 rushing TDs.

Sophomore year- 3869 yards, 19 TDs, 12 int, 57.7%, 86.2 qbr, 741 rushing yards & 8 rushing TDs.

Cam didn't hit a sophomore slump of any kind. I would still take Cam Newton over RG3 and Wilson as well. Cam Newton had to embrace the role of a franchise QB at a more difficult level than RG3 and Wilson. Cam was asked to do it all. He was the teams QB and RB. Cam led his team in rushing yards and rushing TDs. He didn't have the benefit of 1500-1600 yard rushers to take the pressure off of him like RG3 and Wilson (or a #1 scoring defense like Wilson). Granted, RG3 did help create that rushing game opening up holes for Morris because of his scrambling ability. But, Morris also created a lot of plays himself breaking tackles and being the top 3 in yards after contact. So it was more of a symbiotic relationship and both benefited. I'm not even going to mention how bad the Panthers play calling was. Chud was so stubborn trying to force the read option when apparently it wasn't a good fit.

So I wouldn't say defenses adjusted to Cam like he hit a sophomore slump or anything. He still had a good year comparable to his rookie season. He just got lost in all the RG3, Wilson, and Luck Hype.

But to the main point, it's wait and see with me for Rg3. I don't put much stock into one season.i disagree. they started 2-8. cam had several games of terrible play where the offense looked like it was being led by jermacus russell. further, newton would hide his face under towels from his teammates and fans during 2nd halves of games. he had the string of absolutely almost scary post game conferences where his mental stability was rightfully being questioned. he looked borer line suicidal.

now, they did finish 5-1. and, newton did play much MUCH better those final 6 games, which I suspect helped even out his #s a bit. But, don't forget, he plays in a unique offense with an offensive coach who has been successful with lesser pieces. they generated yards playing well or poorly. his #'s dont really tell the story bc of how dynamic his skill set is.

but, to each their own and i respect your post, its well written and detailed. i just personally disagree is all.

edit-i especially agree about ur point about carolina forcing the read option, and the point bout not putting too much stock into one year (regards to rg3)

giantsfan420
07-06-2013, 01:50 AM
that's ridiculous. They came back with him in the game and won the game. You can say what if's for anything but the fact is they lost.yeah, unless im not recalling correctly, didnt shannahan keep rg3 in too long bc rg3 insisted on it? it wasn't til like the 4th quarter that rgknee left the game. they werent up 14 pts by that time iirc

giantsfan420
07-06-2013, 01:57 AM
Seriously, RG3 can throw I know this, but he is running a gimmick offense. He's not reading defenses.He's not making presnap reads( except for the obvious ones). He basically has one read, one on one coverage all over the field cause of their running game. If the wr is open he throws, if he's not he either hands it off to Morris or takes of and runs. Everyone thought Cam was going to be a beast this year but looked at what happened when teams adjusted. I just don't think RG3 can sit in the pocket and throw 30 times a game yet if he had to. I have more faith in Wilson, Luck, or Kaepernick to do that.great post. spot on. i can see our conversations on the subject are still fresh in ur mind. mine too.

even their run game was based on 1 read (the DE). its completely a gimmick offense. and, i think if rgknee doesnt end up fulfilling all that potential, it will be because of how he has been handled his first 2 offseasons. rookie offseason, i can kinda see installing the gimmick offense bc of the shortened offseason. but, when u look at it with yr 2 offseason in mind, it becomes inexcusable. because now, with the injury, offseason 2 will be spent rehabbing the knee. he isnt gonna get the reps that can help a qb progress in reading defenses pre/after snap.

shannahan coulda, imo, installed a pro nfl offense, and let rgknee trial and error it until he got a rhythm, feel for defenses. they didnt even do that. kirk cousins is probably further ahead as a prototypical nfl qb than rgknee is.

and, i wanna make a point that should be way more reviled. it was reported shannahan wasnt 100% sold on rgknee bc he was unsure of rgknees ability to be a pocket passer. that makes sense when u see the offense they ran exclusively. the few times things kinda broke down and rgknee needed to read the D, he made some pretty terrible decisions/throws. with how his first yr and 2nd offseason have gone, i dunno if shannahan can even reasonably expect rgknee to run a nfl pro offense. they prob will run the same thing with a few wrinkles of conventional offenses.

giantsfan420
07-06-2013, 01:58 AM
This is one of the more obvious choices. Prince>Claiborne at this point.so, your saying i was right then about my preseason claim i made to you? remember our whole convo about this very topic (prince vs claiborne)?

boozeking88
07-06-2013, 03:45 AM
i disagree. they started 2-8. cam had several games of terrible play where the offense looked like it was being led by jermacus russell. further, newton would hide his face under towels from his teammates and fans during 2nd halves of games. he had the string of absolutely almost scary post game conferences where his mental stability was rightfully being questioned. he looked borer line suicidal.

I think the Jamarcus Russell comparison is highly over exaggerated. In those ten games, Cam had 2390 yards, 9 Tds, and 10 pics; 394 yards and 4 rushing TDs. That isn't not great but it's not necessarily horrible. You mentioned how numbers don't tell the story. Let me help elaborate on that point.

Like I previously noted, Cam did everything by himself. They had no offensive balance and the play calling was horrible. Let's take a look at some of these losses in this first 10 gamges.

Bucs: Panthers had 10 total rushing yards.

Giants: They just got smashed.

Falcons: The Panthers had the lead with 59 seconds left. The Falcons were in their endzone and Matt threw up a jump ball for Roddy White in double coverage and he caught it. They got into field goal range and won the game. The defense blew a 4th quarter lead and lost. (cam led in rushing)

Seattle: Cam played a tough defense and lost. Noted that Cam was the leading rusher again with 42 yards.

Cowboys: Cam had a good game . They converted a 4th down late in the 4th quarter but it was called back due to a timeout. Then they tried again and they failed. Pretty irrelevant but it appeared to be late. ( Cam also lead in rushing again 64 yards)

Bears: Cam threw for a lot of yards but had a tough game with turnovers. The Panthers still managed to get ahead and with 1:04 left in the 4th quarter, the Panthers defense collapsed again and allowed the Bears to win the game. The defense blew another 4th quarter lead and lost. Also Jonathan Stewart led in rushing with 42 yards on 17 attempts.

Broncos: They just lost. Jonathan Stewart led in yards with 31 yards on 8 attempts.

Bucs: The Panthers had the lead with 18 secs left in the 4th quarter. The let the Bucs score to take it into over time. The Bucs get possession and roll straight over the Panthers defense to win. Jonathan Stewart also had 43 yards on 15 attempts; Cam next with 40.

Now, if you look outside the numbers and if you watched the games, you'd realize that a few of those losses weren't Cam Newton's fault. The defense alone lost 3 games within the final minute. If they stand tall, the Panthers are easily 5-5 for those 10 games. Now, a trend that I was trying to emphasize was how bad the running game was in each of those losses. No RB outside of Cam had over 50 rushing yards in any of those games. Also, if you watched the games, you would have seen how horrible the Panthers play calling was continuously trying to force the read option that was obviously not working. That was beyond evident (if you watched the games). Now, I'm not putting the blame solely on the RBs for their poor performances, but for anyone to say that their poor performances didn't affect the team in a negative way is crazy. Watching them game after game not convert on those crucial drives and then for people to try and put the blame on Cam must be watching the game with their eyes closed. Cam bore the weight of RB duties and a horrible defense blowing games in the final minute.



now, they did finish 5-1. and, newton did play much MUCH better those final 6 games, which I suspect helped even out his #s a bit. But, don't forget, he plays in a unique offense with an offensive coach who has been successful with lesser pieces. they generated yards playing well or poorly. his #'s dont really tell the story bc of how dynamic his skill set is.

but, to each their own and i respect your post, its well written and detailed. i just personally disagree is all.

edit-i especially agree about ur point about carolina forcing the read option, and the point bout not putting too much stock into one year (regards to rg3)

Yes, they did finish 5-1. They begin playing better towards the 2nd half of the season. A huge reason for this was because Chud got rid of the read option and started playing a conventional offense. Anyone watching the games saw the immediate change in the offense. Granted some of the teams weren't all that great but the play calling got much better.

Now, as far as Cam moping, Cam did go through a little emo state in the beginning of the season. No doubt it was from the frustration of losing and he definitely could have handled it better. I for one definitely don't condone it. But, he got way better down the stretch and you saw the change in his mentality. There's still a question mark about his mental toughness (for me at least) until next season. But to go as far as compare him to Jamarcus Russell though... c'mon now.

giantsfan420
07-06-2013, 02:45 PM
the j.russell was hyperbole.

and, those games you listed above, you failed to mention the late game turnovers cam was almost solely responsible for. Iirc, 3 or 4 of those losses, Newton had a late turnover that ended up killin carolina. ex. iirc, that Atl game, Newton has a chance to run for the1rst on a designed QB run play. He fumbled the ball away. that was the story their first 10 games.

B&RWarrior
07-07-2013, 12:20 AM
the j.russell was hyperbole.

and, those games you listed above, you failed to mention the late game turnovers cam was almost solely responsible for. Iirc, 3 or 4 of those losses, Newton had a late turnover that ended up killin carolina. ex. iirc, that Atl game, Newton has a chance to run for the1rst on a designed QB run play. He fumbled the ball away. that was the story their first 10 games.

Yes, but the last 5 games he looked decidedly better. I think Cam has a good year next year.

B&RWarrior
07-07-2013, 12:24 AM
Seriously, RG3 can throw I know this, but he is running a gimmick offense. He's not reading defenses.He's not making presnap reads( except for the obvious ones). He basically has one read, one on one coverage all over the field cause of their running game. If the wr is open he throws, if he's not he either hands it off to Morris or takes of and runs. Everyone thought Cam was going to be a beast this year but looked at what happened when teams adjusted. I just don't think RG3 can sit in the pocket and throw 30 times a game yet if he had to. I have more faith in Wilson, Luck, or Kaepernick to do that.

Kap would struggle mightily if he had to sit in the pocket and throw it 30 times a game.

Toadofsteel
07-07-2013, 09:34 AM
That is why the premise of this thread is so dumb. You don't pick all pros for each division. You are watering it down to the point of making the label meaningless.

Now if you want to argue who is the best (name a position) in the NFC east, that is fine but leave the redefined "All Pro" tag out of the discussion.

I'm all for leaving an All-Pro tag out of it, but I like the idea of an All-Division team, because it can tell you how strong a division really is. That NFC North team is devastating (Rodgers, AP, Megatron), whereas if you look at the NFC West team, it's all niners and seahawks. Everyone says that the NFC West is the most powerful division, but this article tells me that the NFC North is. The East would be better too if they had safeties and coverage linebackers worth a damn...

Toadofsteel
07-07-2013, 09:36 AM
Seriously, RG3 can throw I know this, but he is running a gimmick offense. He's not reading defenses.He's not making presnap reads( except for the obvious ones). He basically has one read, one on one coverage all over the field cause of their running game. If the wr is open he throws, if he's not he either hands it off to Morris or takes of and runs. Everyone thought Cam was going to be a beast this year but looked at what happened when teams adjusted. I just don't think RG3 can sit in the pocket and throw 30 times a game yet if he had to. I have more faith in Wilson, Luck, or Kaepernick to do that.

Wilson and Luck have already shown they can handle being pocket passers (Wasn't it Wilson's game vs the Patriots where he basically passed from the pocket all game and outright outscored Tom Brady?) Krapernick, not so much... he has the benefit of starting mid-season, so he didn't get as banged up.

giantsfan420
07-07-2013, 11:00 AM
u guys arent really being fair to Kapernick. Out of all the mobile QBs, he may look to stay in the pocket the most. a lot of the mobile QBs look to use their mobility to setup a throwing platform. Kapernick doesnt really do that. if he starts scrambling, he's going to run. i dunno that I've seen him scramble around and then trying to reset and beat the d with his arm. he usually just takes off running if he has to start scrambling around. When hes passing, he pretty much stay completely in the pocket, and makes a timed read. I thought Kap was the best mobile qb last yr and it wasnt close. the other mobile qbs, aside from wilson to a degree, used their mobility to buy time to make an easy, open throw. Kaep didnt really did that. it was either, be a pocket passer, or run. there wasnt a mixing point of the two. Like RGKnee, he will scramble around until he can find an open guy n then throw it (ex that 4th and 10 vs us the first meeting). Kaps different in that he doesnt really use his legs to setup his arm. its more so he uses his arm to setup his legs. I'd rather Kap than wilson and rgknee for a multitude of reasons; health, ability, size, determination, et al.;;

Rudyy
07-07-2013, 11:19 AM
I'm all for leaving an All-Pro tag out of it, but I like the idea of an All-Division team, because it can tell you how strong a division really is. That NFC North team is devastating (Rodgers, AP, Megatron), whereas if you look at the NFC West team, it's all niners and seahawks. Everyone says that the NFC West is the most powerful division, but this article tells me that the NFC North is. The East would be better too if they had safeties and coverage linebackers worth a damn...Huh? Who is saying the NFC West is the most powerful division? They only have 2 good teams.

Rudyy
07-07-2013, 11:21 AM
u guys arent really being fair to Kapernick. Out of all the mobile QBs, he may look to stay in the pocket the most. a lot of the mobile QBs look to use their mobility to setup a throwing platform. Kapernick doesnt really do that. if he starts scrambling, he's going to run. i dunno that I've seen him scramble around and then trying to reset and beat the d with his arm. he usually just takes off running if he has to start scrambling around. When hes passing, he pretty much stay completely in the pocket, and makes a timed read. I thought Kap was the best mobile qb last yr and it wasnt close. the other mobile qbs, aside from wilson to a degree, used their mobility to buy time to make an easy, open throw. Kaep didnt really did that. it was either, be a pocket passer, or run. there wasnt a mixing point of the two. Like RGKnee, he will scramble around until he can find an open guy n then throw it (ex that 4th and 10 vs us the first meeting). Kaps different in that he doesnt really use his legs to setup his arm. its more so he uses his arm to setup his legs. I'd rather Kap than wilson and rgknee for a multitude of reasons; health, ability, size, determination, et al.;;Kaep and Wilson actually aren't that much different from each other, except height obviously. Both have strong arms and are super fast and athletic.

B&RWarrior
07-07-2013, 12:01 PM
u guys arent really being fair to Kapernick. Out of all the mobile QBs, he may look to stay in the pocket the most. a lot of the mobile QBs look to use their mobility to setup a throwing platform. Kapernick doesnt really do that. if he starts scrambling, he's going to run. i dunno that I've seen him scramble around and then trying to reset and beat the d with his arm. he usually just takes off running if he has to start scrambling around. When hes passing, he pretty much stay completely in the pocket, and makes a timed read. I thought Kap was the best mobile qb last yr and it wasnt close. the other mobile qbs, aside from wilson to a degree, used their mobility to buy time to make an easy, open throw. Kaep didnt really did that. it was either, be a pocket passer, or run. there wasnt a mixing point of the two. Like RGKnee, he will scramble around until he can find an open guy n then throw it (ex that 4th and 10 vs us the first meeting). Kaps different in that he doesnt really use his legs to setup his arm. its more so he uses his arm to setup his legs. I'd rather Kap than wilson and rgknee for a multitude of reasons; health, ability, size, determination, et al.;;

When you list "determination" as a reason for Kap getting the nod over Wilson or RG3 you've destroyed a great argument you made for choosing Kap as a running QB.

I disagree with the argument even before the biased statement about determination. I think the great pocket passers know how to elude the pass rush and still look for the pass. If you take the ball down and run a the first sign of trouble then I see this as bad thing not a good thing.

Of all the running QBs I think Cam Newton looked the best toward the end of the season as his passing improved. He can be a pocket QB or he can run.

I still think the best combination of mobility and scrambling ability is AR. His arm is out of this world and he can pick up a first down with his legs. I wouldn't consider him a "running" QB, rather I'd call him a mobile pocket QB. I kept thinking when he played the Giants that you just hope he has an off day, cause if a guy can throw like that and then run 10-15 yrds to pick up a first down regularly, then I don't know how you defend that as DC.

I'm very biased. I grew up on Simms, then moved on to Collins, and now Eli. I think the read-option is a gimmick offense. I like my QBs to sit in the pocket, breakdown defenses, scramble to set up a pass, and deliver strikes. Kap seemed to struggle on easy throws. Kap, RG3, and Wilson would all benefit from learning how to be a drop back passer. As of now, I think if you stop the run then they will struggle mightily, having to sit in the pocket and read defenses and make throws.

We will see in the next 2-3 years if the read-option has staying power.

Eliscruzzz
07-07-2013, 02:12 PM
Kap would struggle mightily if he had to sit in the pocket and throw it 30 times a game.He did it in the GB game and did pretty damn good...

giantsfan420
07-07-2013, 04:18 PM
b n r is off on this one too.

kap def was prob the most effective of the mobile qbs at being a pocket passing qb. completely biased/inaccurate to say he he'd struggle mightily throwin 30x a game. he's not like the other QBs where they use the read option to set up the pass. Kap and SF were excellent in how they used him. It was "be a pocket passer first, runner 2nd" and while it seems easy a formula to do, mobile qbs seem to struggle mightily with it aside from WIlson for the most part. When Kap runs, its either the play broke down and he takes off or its a designed run (that QB sweep play they do that seems to work non stop). Kap is not like RG3 in the sense he'll scramble around behind the LOS to setup a pass. If he's scrambling, he's attackin the D and running like he's a RB, not like hes a mobile QB.

But Kap wouldnt scramble around to make throws. He'd read the D, if he didnt like what he saw, he took off running. he was excellent in that regard. and he asbolutely carved up defenses from the pocket, prob better than any of the mobile qbs in the sense of a prototypical pocket passer.

It was said the SF scouts/Harbaugh felt Kapernick was the most talented player in the entire class of his draft, and i hate to admit it but u can kinda see why. he's a gifted pocket passer who can absolutely destroy you with his legs.

Buddy333
07-07-2013, 04:19 PM
The Packers defense stunk last year.

Toadofsteel
07-07-2013, 04:45 PM
He did it in the GB game and did pretty damn good...

He also ran for record rushing yardage by a QB in the playoffs as well. GB's defense is just plain terrible nowadays, with Rodgers in the fold they're incredibly tilted towards offense. Hell, Eli of all people was able to run for 15 yards on a play against GB, AND register YAC too...

Drez
07-07-2013, 04:46 PM
He also ran for record rushing yardage by a QB in the playoffs as well. GB's defense is just plain terrible nowadays, with Rodgers in the fold they're incredibly tilted towards offense. Hell, Eli of all people was able to run for 15 yards on a play against GB, AND register YAC too...And truck a defender. You know you're not getting any respect when Eli effin' Manning trucks you, lol.

giantsfan420
07-07-2013, 05:13 PM
He also ran for record rushing yardage by a QB in the playoffs as well. GB's defense is just plain terrible nowadays, with Rodgers in the fold they're incredibly tilted towards offense. Hell, Eli of all people was able to run for 15 yards on a play against GB, AND register YAC too...but thats kinda independent to what we're discussing. we know he can run. the question was whether he could be a pocket passer.

its my contention he was unlike the other read option mobile QBs in that, those other guys had running as an option they could do while passing whereas Kap seemed to either Pass or Run. I know that wasnt the best way to word it, but it seems like those other mobile QBs will run around to try and pass, and Kap is unique in that, he will try to be a qb from the pocket and break down the D, and THEN if he cant, he runs. Its what coaches have always wanted from Vick. Kap does that better than those other guys, maybe Wilsons up there too. He's just so short that a lot of Seattles offense is getting him a platform outside the pocket on a bootleg PA...

Eliscruzzz
07-07-2013, 07:47 PM
but thats kinda independent to what we're discussing. we know he can run. the question was whether he could be a pocket passer.

its my contention he was unlike the other read option mobile QBs in that, those other guys had running as an option they could do while passing whereas Kap seemed to either Pass or Run. I know that wasnt the best way to word it, but it seems like those other mobile QBs will run around to try and pass, and Kap is unique in that, he will try to be a qb from the pocket and break down the D, and THEN if he cant, he runs. Its what coaches have always wanted from Vick. Kap does that better than those other guys, maybe Wilsons up there too. He's just so short that a lot of Seattles offense is getting him a platform outside the pocket on a bootleg PA...+1...only thing I would say that is different, is Wilson to me is the better pocket passer. He has better touch then Kaep. Kaep always seems like he's throwing a missile.

Eliscruzzz
07-07-2013, 07:53 PM
He also ran for record rushing yardage by a QB in the playoffs as well. GB's defense is just plain terrible nowadays, with Rodgers in the fold they're incredibly tilted towards offense. Hell, Eli of all people was able to run for 15 yards on a play against GB, AND register YAC too...What does running for all those yards have to do with him throwing the ball from the pocket 30 times?? He still did it against an NFL defense. I don't care how bad their defense was. RG3 also played us and and our crappy defense and never threw 30 times. My point was that Washington must see something that RG3 can't do if thy don't have him running a pro style offense.Eventually he is going to have to learn. Maybe the reid option will be affective for this year and maybe even the next but eventually he will have to play from the pocket and win that way.

Eliscruzzz
07-07-2013, 07:56 PM
And truck a defender. You know you're not getting any respect when Eli effin' Manning trucks you, lol.Running the ball has nothing to do with what we are talking about... Kaepernick also did it in the SB too. He lost that game but show he can play from the pocket and make a comeback. RG3 hasn't done that and I don't think he can.

Buddy333
07-07-2013, 11:43 PM
RGIII is the real deal and the most dangerous of the mobile QB's.

IamGiantsfan
07-08-2013, 02:25 PM
RGIII is the real deal and the most dangerous of the mobile QB's.

Thank you for this well thought out and reasoned argument.

Eliscruzzz
07-09-2013, 01:48 PM
Thank you for this well thought out and reasoned argument.lol

GameTime
07-09-2013, 02:27 PM
RGIII is the real deal and the most dangerous of the mobile QB's.
with inly one season under his I will refrain from calling him the best at anything just yet. The kid has skills for sure though.