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View Full Version : Thoughts on these players and what type of impact for this season.



Shockeyitus
07-04-2013, 08:45 PM
Eric Herman, OG
Cooper Taylor, S/LB Hybrid
Will Hill, S
Louis Murphy, WR
Aaron Curry, LB

giantsfan420
07-04-2013, 09:08 PM
Eric Herman, OG-prob doesnt play more than 10 snaps if that on the year

Cooper Taylor, S/LB Hybrid-interesting prospect who could match what we do very well defensively. SHould contribute immediately on ST. Could become an actual role player by mid way point.

Will Hill, S-He has an interesting skill set. I'd assume its more suited for near the LOS to intermediate pass coverage. I dont know if he has that centerfield coverage ability that KP had, but not many safeties do anyways. I expect we see him play ST's, and be used in the safety rotation and to make some big hits and hopefully big plays.

Louis Murphy, WR-the reason I'm posting, just so I could discuss him. This guy is intriguing for me. He's a guy that could be used as any 4th WR is used, but, I also believe the Giants got him to use him out of the slot. My guess would be, we'll even see Murphy out of the slot over Cruz in some situations and times of the season. I think his downfield speed out of the slot while the D is focusing on the perimeter WR's is something KG will want to exploit. I've been a big fan of Murphys since his rookie year. I've seen what this kid is capable of. Ya know who I'd honestly compare him to? a young T.O. Like T.O., he has tremendous speed, has a physical presence to his game, and imo, will start out working out of the slot (which is where TO actually began to make plays and a name for himself from). I think Murphy could give us a big season while still being relegated to 4th on the depth chart. I dunno if we're gonna try and rely on him 10-15x a game, but I'd def expect to see 3-4 targets his way while trying to set the D up for a long bomb.

Aaron Curry, LB- Another guy I've been very vocal about. I actually woulda been fine trying to pursue him when seattle first put him on the block. but whatever, it worked out imo bc Currys been outspoken about how he had the wrong mentality/attitude, and how hes willing to do whatever it takes to help the team. the guy has a skill set that is pretty much top notch, its why he was 4th overall and considered the safe 1rst overall of the class. if he can combine that with the right mentality, we may have just gotten the biggest steal defensively we've ever had.

B&RWarrior
07-04-2013, 09:25 PM
Louis Murphy a young TO, LOL, okay. I'll pay money to see that come to fruition. If he's half as good as the old/youngTO we have the best WR core in the league. I think Murphy could help us, but let there never be a TO comparison at any stage of his career.

Herman won't do anything.

Will Hill will struggle in coverage. He will play the run well.

Cooper Taylor is my dark horse for rookie of the year for the Giants, not the league.

Curry will play avg/ good versus the run and bad in coverage.

giantsfan420
07-04-2013, 09:27 PM
Louis Murphy a young TO, LOL, okay. I'll pay money to see that come to fruition. If he's half as good as the old/youngTO we have the best WR core in the league. I think Murphy could help us, but let there never be a TO comparison at any stage of his career.

Herman won't do anything.

Will Hill will struggle in coverage. He will play the run well.

Cooper Taylor is my dark horse for rookie of the year for the Giants, not the league.

Curry will play avg/ good versus the run and bad in coverage.when i say a young TO, I mean a first year 9er young TO. And yes. Go watch the 2008 Pitts vs Oakland game, watch his highlights that game and tell me that doesnt remind u...

he has tremendous speed, he's built to be physical...watch Murphys best games, its actually apt.

giantsfan420
07-04-2013, 09:29 PM
only watched a min in and its pretty clear to me at least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ph1ZYx7EKw


watch specifically for Pitt games

giantsfan420
07-04-2013, 09:33 PM
at 1:30, but especially 3:00, but really the whole thing, if your gonna tell me that doesnt remind you of TO before he became mental case TO, i dunno what to tell u. im glad i found this clip, i didnt make it lol, bc i almost am thinking its Owens with a lot of the after the whistle stuff and physical play.


and btw, this is with some backup 3rd string QB throwing to him Chezakcowkslki or something lol and a few J.Russel passes iirc

B&RWarrior
07-04-2013, 09:33 PM
when i say a young TO, I mean a first year 9er young TO. And yes. Go watch the 2008 Pitts vs Oakland game, watch his highlights that game and tell me that doesnt remind u...

he has tremendous speed, he's built to be physical...watch Murphys best games, its actually apt.

You usually make good post so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You mean TO before he became great. Maybe so, but Murphy doesn't compare at all to the TO that played for Dallas, Philly, or kicked our *** in the playoffs as a 49er. That TO is miles above Murphy in every respect.

LOL how the hell am I going to watch 2008 Pitt vs Oakland? I tried to You Tube it but nobody posted that classic.

B&RWarrior
07-04-2013, 09:37 PM
only watched a min in and its pretty clear to me at least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ph1ZYx7EKw


watch specifically for Pitt games

damn I just did the search and it didn't come up- granted I haven't even scrolled down.

giantsfan420
07-04-2013, 09:37 PM
with Eli, Murphy has the potential to be really, REALLY good.

giantsfan420
07-04-2013, 09:38 PM
damn I just did the search and it didn't come up- granted I haven't even scrolled down.just watch this clip. worth every second. this guys gonna be special. a couple plays u cant tell me u couldnt swap jerseys with Owens and be able to tell the difference.

B&RWarrior
07-04-2013, 09:47 PM
just watch this clip. worth every second. this guys gonna be special. a couple plays u cant tell me u couldnt swap jerseys with Owens and be able to tell the difference.

No way dude. This guy couldn't hold TO's jockstrap. He's shorter and TO outweighs the guy by almost 30 lbs. As far as I can tell he's not even faster than TO was as far in game speed is concerned.

giantsfan420
07-04-2013, 10:18 PM
No way dude. This guy couldn't hold TO's jockstrap. He's shorter and TO outweighs the guy by almost 30 lbs. As far as I can tell he's not even faster than TO was as far in game speed is concerned.man ur just arguing for the sake of arguing. the same first down showboat, same spike the ball through the goal posts on a go route td he leaves the D toasted.
did u even watch the entire clip? how could u say at 3 min to like 4 min 15 sec he didnt look like TO, or really, any dominant WR? He single handedly beat Pitt with some no name 3rd string scrub as the QB. he beat quadruple coverage on a hail mary one play that included ryan clark and troy p. wth are u watching, they even used him a ton on slants to try and get him the ball in YAC situations exactly like TO used to be used and Murphy broke a few exactly how TO would...its cool agree to disagree.

B&RWarrior
07-05-2013, 01:23 AM
man ur just arguing for the sake of arguing. the same first down showboat, same spike the ball through the goal posts on a go route td he leaves the D toasted.
did u even watch the entire clip? how could u say at 3 min to like 4 min 15 sec he didnt look like TO, or really, any dominant WR? He single handedly beat Pitt with some no name 3rd string scrub as the QB. he beat quadruple coverage on a hail mary one play that included ryan clark and troy p. wth are u watching, they even used him a ton on slants to try and get him the ball in YAC situations exactly like TO used to be used and Murphy broke a few exactly how TO would...its cool agree to disagree.

I do love to debate but this debate is lopsided. TO undressed the best CBs in the game every game for basically his entire career.

In 2010 Palmer was TO's QB in Cincy and TO put up just about 70 receptions 1000 yards and 9 TDs opposite Chad Johnson and was the better of the two. In 2011 Murphy was catching balls from the same Palmer in Oakland and got 15 receptions and no TDs in 11 games. Who was taking PT away from him in Oakland?

He ways 26 less lbs than TO so in no way shape or form is he as physical. He's got 7 TDs in a 4 year career. In TO's first 4 years he had 30 TDs, granted he was catching balls from a HOF QB, but still the difference shouldn't be that big.

If you are looking for the next TO you are setting yourself up for disappointment. He can come in hear and improve his numbers though, but let's not talk crazy.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 01:39 AM
I do love to debate but this debate is lopsided. TO undressed the best CBs in the game every game for basically his entire career.

In 2010 Palmer was TO's QB in Cincy and TO put up just about 70 receptions 1000 yards and 9 TDs opposite Chad Johnson and was the better of the two. In 2011 Murphy was catching balls from the same Palmer in Oakland and got 15 receptions and no TDs in 11 games. Who was taking PT away from him in Oakland?

He ways 26 less lbs than TO so in no way shape or form is he as physical. He's got 7 TDs in a 4 year career. In TO's first 4 years he had 30 TDs, granted he was catching balls from a HOF QB, but still the difference shouldn't be that big.

If you are looking for the next TO you are setting yourself up for disappointment. He can come in hear and improve his numbers though, but let's not talk crazy.for some reason ur acting like i said or am saying Murphy is as good or was as good as TO. I said his rookie yr REMINDED ME, was COMPARABLE to a TO before he broke out and become the HoF he would become...i mean murphy was celebrating plays exactly how TO does. there were several plays where I couldnt tell the diff between Murphy, and some plays I remember of Owens at SF...im not saying Murphy is as accomplished or on Owens level at all. cmon man.

and u prob shouldnt hide behind ur faulty reading comprehension as some sort of ego boost. the only reason the debate is lopsided is because you are not comprehending/understanding what is being said and instead reacting to what your creating and applying to me.

BlueSanta
07-05-2013, 02:22 AM
I do love to debate but this debate is lopsided. TO undressed the best CBs in the game every game for basically his entire career.

In 2010 Palmer was TO's QB in Cincy and TO put up just about 70 receptions 1000 yards and 9 TDs opposite Chad Johnson and was the better of the two. In 2011 Murphy was catching balls from the same Palmer in Oakland and got 15 receptions and no TDs in 11 games. Who was taking PT away from him in Oakland?

He ways 26 less lbs than TO so in no way shape or form is he as physical. He's got 7 TDs in a 4 year career. In TO's first 4 years he had 30 TDs, granted he was catching balls from a HOF QB, but still the difference shouldn't be that big.

If you are looking for the next TO you are setting yourself up for disappointment. He can come in hear and improve his numbers though, but let's not talk crazy.

Gotta agree.

I watch that video and the biggest difference I see is that TO, especially early in his career, was an absolute monster after the catch. He was more like a TE or a RB with the ball and could break tackles that I see bring Murphy to the ground in that video.

Murphy is an excellent free agent signing, don't get me wrong.We signed Louis for 715K for 1 year that's awesome. But lets not get overexcited here.

B&RWarrior
07-05-2013, 03:15 AM
for some reason ur acting like i said or am saying Murphy is as good or was as good as TO. I said his rookie yr REMINDED ME, was COMPARABLE to a TO before he broke out and become the HoF he would become...i mean murphy was celebrating plays exactly how TO does. there were several plays where I couldnt tell the diff between Murphy, and some plays I remember of Owens at SF...im not saying Murphy is as accomplished or on Owens level at all. cmon man.

and u prob shouldnt hide behind ur faulty reading comprehension as some sort of ego boost. the only reason the debate is lopsided is because you are not comprehending/understanding what is being said and instead reacting to what your creating and applying to me.

I got what you were saying. I just disagree totally. Murphy doesn't look like TO any year. 2 different receivers. The only thing they have in common is they both possess above average speed. Honestly, TO looks faster in games. Like I said I think your a good poster, but this not your best moment. It's an awful comparison.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 03:58 AM
I got what you were saying. I just disagree totally. Murphy doesn't look like TO any year. 2 different receivers. The only thing they have in common is they both possess above average speed. Honestly, TO looks faster in games. Like I said I think your a good poster, but this not your best moment. It's an awful comparison.id bet that like ur notorious "A+++++++ OL in 2011" comment, that 9/10 people would agree with what im saying over the notion u created n tried applying to me. you are still thinking i am talkin about murphy being as good as TO ever.
I merely said, Murphy reminded me of a young TO. now, clearly thats my opinion, and we've debated on it. but if u wanna be that kinda poster where you use the last 2 statements solely to try and prop up ur opinion without any actual logical, relatative info, fine by me. it would just be pointless to try and converse with u ever partly bc u continually misunderstood what i said, and now, ur trying to tell me the opinion i hold (that i'd be willing to wager way more people would agree with me) is wrong, when its just my opinion and its actually not wrong. over it. agree to disagree. peace

B&RWarrior
07-05-2013, 09:24 AM
when i say a young TO, I mean a first year 9er young TO. And yes. Go watch the 2008 Pitts vs Oakland game, watch his highlights that game and tell me that doesnt remind u...

he has tremendous speed, he's built to be physical...watch Murphys best games, its actually apt.

This is the first statement you made in our debate. This is the statement I disagree with. Murphy doesn't remind me of TO in his 1st year, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 9th year.

TO looks faster on the field and was way better at creating separation, even in his first year. TO is a much bigger receiver.

Many posters may agree that Murphy looks like a first year TO. I am not one of them. I hope this helps.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 11:03 AM
just watch this clip. worth every second. this guys gonna be special. a couple plays u cant tell me u couldnt swap jerseys with Owens and be able to tell the difference.
How many chances has Murphy had in the league. He had a chance to play opposite Steve Smith last year and fell flat on his face.
I don't know who it was but someone compared TO (a truly great football player) to Louis Murphy (a 4th WR who has never done anything in this league)

This is foolishness squared.
Lets just hope the kid can contribute on ST's and catch a few passes as the 4th or 5th WR.

Imgrate
07-05-2013, 11:32 AM
TO and murphy are two very different style WRs. To reiterate what santa said, TO was a freak with the ball in his hands.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 11:36 AM
This is the first statement you made in our debate. This is the statement I disagree with. Murphy doesn't remind me of TO in his 1st year, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 9th year.

TO looks faster on the field and was way better at creating separation, even in his first year. TO is a much bigger receiver.

Many posters may agree that Murphy looks like a first year TO. I am not one of them. I hope this helps.and my point about u arguing just to argue is proven. i understood you didnt feel that way, which i can respect. not like im one of the kinda posters whose ego gets threatened if someone holds a diff thought than I hold. You were just continually referencing like, Murphy as a player compared to TO as a player. TO is a HoF, and one of the best all time. lmfao u think i dont know that? itd be foolish to say Murphy "is as good as a young TO", something I am NOT saying. ALl the things u say about TO as a player compared to Murphy as a player are apt.
I'm merely saying that watch murphys reaction after getting a first down, watch him on the last play of the clip where he burned the defender out of the slot on a go route and then dunked the football through the goal posts. watch the 3 min mark with him vs Pitt. I'm not saying Murphys anywhere near the caliber player TO is. I AM SAYING THAT MURPHY REMINDS ME OF A YOUNG TO. even some of the celebrations Murphy does in that clip are the same celebrations TO has done. I mean c'mon man. lol. and then u try telling me how I'm wrong and its this poorest example of an opinion or whatever it was u were doing i dunno i cant speak as to why otherwise i'd be able to explain why a few other comical people act the way they do.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 11:40 AM
TO and murphy are two very different style WRs. To reiterate what santa said, TO was a freak with the ball in his hands.well, TO as the finished product HoF, yeah. TO was actually used similarly to how Murphy was used that rookie year. a lot of slants to try and get him in a position to YAC it and burn the coverage with his speed. Murphy too was lined up out of the slot a ton, something SF used to do with TO as it consistently provided mismatches in their favor.

Murphys nowhere near the freak TO became. But, in the clip I posted, Murphy had a couple of slants he caught and YAC'd it into TDs. I thought that was actually pretty similar to how TO was used earlier. Owens became a dominant complete WR, no one can come close to sayin that about Murphy yet.

It wouldnt surprise me at all if Murphy kinda ends up like Plex did those first few years here where he went from a guy with potential in Pitt, to a guy with quality game with Eli. Maybe Murphy take his game to another level with Eli. Certainly isn't like, unfair to believe so when you look at the QBs Murphy has had through his career.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 11:44 AM
and Murphy @ Pitt 2008 imo, was a "TO/dominant WR performance", he was dominating Pitts defense in a lot of ways TO dominated Defenses; coming down with the pass inbetween a sea of defenders, kept burning their coverage on go routes and slants. boxed out the corner and went up and came down with the ball.

That was when I saw the talent/potential Murphy possessed. That was one of the better games I can ever remember by a young WR. He just took over that game in the 4th and made clutch play after clutch play.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 12:13 PM
and Murphy @ Pitt 2008 imo, was a "TO/dominant WR performance", he was dominating Pitts defense in a lot of ways TO dominated Defenses; coming down with the pass inbetween a sea of defenders, kept burning their coverage on go routes and slants. boxed out the corner and went up and came down with the ball.

That was when I saw the talent/potential Murphy possessed. That was one of the better games I can ever remember by a young WR. He just took over that game in the 4th and made clutch play after clutch play.

How do you explain what's happened to him since he's been a pro, especially last year when he had every opportunity to shine?

NorwoodBlue
07-05-2013, 01:00 PM
Herman- Practice squad

Cooper- slim chance to make the team, he might not even be held over for the practice squad.

Murphy- interesting prospect, and nice insurance should Nicks or one of the other WR go down. He could open the field up for Eli with some deep routes too. He could have an impact on special teams too.

Curry- Nice pick-up with a real good chance of beating out Herzlich and Connors for the MLB spot.

Hill- Excellent skill set, he has the potential to be a starter in the next couple of seasons

B&RWarrior
07-05-2013, 01:41 PM
and my point about u arguing just to argue is proven. i understood you didnt feel that way, which i can respect. not like im one of the kinda posters whose ego gets threatened if someone holds a diff thought than I hold. You were just continually referencing like, Murphy as a player compared to TO as a player. TO is a HoF, and one of the best all time. lmfao u think i dont know that? itd be foolish to say Murphy "is as good as a young TO", something I am NOT saying. ALl the things u say about TO as a player compared to Murphy as a player are apt.
I'm merely saying that watch murphys reaction after getting a first down, watch him on the last play of the clip where he burned the defender out of the slot on a go route and then dunked the football through the goal posts. watch the 3 min mark with him vs Pitt. I'm not saying Murphys anywhere near the caliber player TO is. I AM SAYING THAT MURPHY REMINDS ME OF A YOUNG TO. even some of the celebrations Murphy does in that clip are the same celebrations TO has done. I mean c'mon man. lol. and then u try telling me how I'm wrong and its this poorest example of an opinion or whatever it was u were doing i dunno i cant speak as to why otherwise i'd be able to explain why a few other comical people act the way they do.

I gotcha now, and I truly didn't before. You're saying Murphy REMINDS you of a young TO for whatever reason, but you know they are not really comparable as players.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 02:14 PM
I gotcha now, and I truly didn't before. You're saying Murphy REMINDS you of a young TO for whatever reason, but you know they are not really comparable as players.ding ding ding...i know i can be really confusing at times so sorry if i wasnt clearer in my explanations.

i dont think really there are any guys, even the julio jones or aj greens et al (YET) that can compare to TO as a player. But that doesnt mean there arent aspects of their game/attitude/style that can't be reminicent to TO ya know?

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 02:16 PM
ding ding ding...i know i can be really confusing at times so sorry if i wasnt clearer in my explanations.

i dont think really there are any guys, even the julio jones or aj greens et al (YET) that can compare to TO as a player. But that doesnt mean there arent aspects of their game/attitude/style that can't be reminicent to TO ya know?
Right...."He reminds me of T.O. because of the way he celebrates"

You backtrack better than Michael Jackson.

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 02:38 PM
Right...."He reminds me of T.O. because of the way he celebrates"

You backtrack better than Michael Jackson.

hahaha yo this message board was bleak without you dude.

Where've you been all day haha.

jax5338
07-05-2013, 04:18 PM
I don't think of Murphy as being close to TO in terms of strength and skill, but I do feel like he can shine here because of his speed and having Nicks and Cruz around him. I feel like he can be what we hoped Jernigan would be, just in a bigger body.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 04:23 PM
I don't think of Murphy as being close to TO in terms of strength and skill, but I do feel like he can shine here because of his speed and having Nicks and Cruz around him. I feel like he can be what we hoped Jernigan would be, just in a bigger body.
Right now Murphy is, at best #4 on the WR depth chart.
One could also make an argument that he still has a lot to prove in order to make this team. If you are a #4 WR, you better be able to play ST's. I'm actually not sure if he plays ST's, or play them well. I guess I can see him as a gunner on the punt team, given his size and speed.
But this entire T.O. discussion is so silly it's really ridiculous to discuss it.
Murphy has had opportunity after opportunity over the course of his 4 year career, including and especially last year where he was essentially invisible.

That's doesn't mean I don't like his signing because he's signed on the cheap and I definitely can see him contributing. But lets all try to keep a little perspective here,

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 04:30 PM
Right now Murphy is, at best #4 on the WR depth chart.
One could also make an argument that he still has a lot to prove in order to make this team. If you are a #4 WR, you better be able to play ST's. I'm actually not sure if he plays ST's, or play them well. I guess I can see him as a gunner on the punt team, given his size and speed.
But this entire T.O. discussion is so silly it's really ridiculous to discuss it.
Murphy has had opportunity after opportunity over the course of his 4 year career, including and especially last year where he was essentially invisible.

That's doesn't mean I don't like his signing because he's signed on the cheap and I definitely can see him contributing. But lets all try to keep a little perspective here,Going back to last year, not only did he fail to emerge on a WR needy team with a young rocket-armed QB, but he failed to do so in one of the most vertical-friendly offenses (if not THE most vertically-friendly offense) in the league, under Rob Chudzinsky.

Unless he is one of those players whose skills can translate to a read-and-streak type offense -- and trust me, this offense weeds out a lot of potential receivers -- then his relatively poor career will continue. I do like the early reports I'm seeing, though, but it's truly a wait and see type situation.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 04:33 PM
I don't think of Murphy as being close to TO in terms of strength and skill, but I do feel like he can shine here because of his speed and having Nicks and Cruz around him. I feel like he can be what we hoped Jernigan would be, just in a bigger body.yeah i wasnt trying to say murphy is like as good a player as TO was. I'm saying that some of Murphys play has some similarity to the style in which TO was used/played earlier in his career.

the point never was Murphy compared to TO as a player in terms of overall skill and how good he was, just how some things Murphy did his rookie year reminded me of TO. Kinda like how in other threads posters have discussed elements of Wilsons game that reminds them of some of the all time great rbs...

and i personally feel Murphy has a chance to do some great things here. Oakland has politics at least from what I understand, they used to have a way they did things. Deryious Heywerd Bay was their 1rst pick, top 10 overall. And despite Murphy showing he should get more attention from the offense/coaches, they continually stuck with DHB. He had an up n down stay at oakland. Usually his ups coincided with him getting chances, and lows coincided with Oakland forcing DHB into being "the guy".
last yr, he played on a dysfunctional carolina offense with a qb who struggled tremendously. i think here, with the wr's we have, and especially the QB we have, Murphy is gonna break out here.

GameTime
07-05-2013, 04:37 PM
if Murph cant beat out Barden then he is of no use.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 04:38 PM
hes gonna beat out barden lol. honestly, watch. imo, we're gonna see some sets where murphy is in over nicks or cruz, and in sets with them. i cant wait for him to have a break out game...

GameTime
07-05-2013, 04:40 PM
hes gonna beat out barden lol. honestly, watch. imo, we're gonna see some sets where murphy is in over nicks or cruz, and in sets with them. i cant wait for him to have a break out game...

like to see more than 1 break out game.....like I said. He isn;t a given yet. He has to work hard. If he is anything like his highlights then he should do alright.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 04:44 PM
like to see more than 1 break out game.....like I said. He isn;t a given yet. He has to work hard. If he is anything like his highlights then he should do alright.well technically, u can only have 1 "break out" game bc then, your broken out lol i guess? i expect he will impact several games as a Giant.

This guy has the goods. I dont think its coincidence that he caught on from the get go with eli (the reports how eli and murphy looked like they'd been teammates for years)...Murphy may end up being the most lethal weapon to defenses bc if they give too much attention to nicks n cruz, murphy WILL, WILL burn them. Maybe more so than Randle at this point imho. We got such riches at the WR spot.

Randle, Murphy on the outside with JJ workin the slot is intriguing as **** to me as well lmfao. but yeah, murphys gonna be such an interesting weapon. can totally see why the FO would go and get him.

jomo
07-05-2013, 04:52 PM
if Murph cant beat out Barden then he is of no use.lol and if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow there will be no season this year.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 06:02 PM
Going back to last year, not only did he fail to emerge on a WR needy team with a young rocket-armed QB, but he failed to do so in one of the most vertical-friendly offenses (if not THE most vertically-friendly offense) in the league, under Rob Chudzinsky.

Unless he is one of those players whose skills can translate to a read-and-streak type offense -- and trust me, this offense weeds out a lot of potential receivers -- then his relatively poor career will continue. I do like the early reports I'm seeing, though, but it's truly a wait and see type situation.so u feel that last year, that dysfunctional unit called an offense in carolina is a good metric to measure Murphy with? Because, Steve Smith sucked (edit-filter didnt register a ter I thought it would) too, pretty sure he could even be a HoF one day...

his rookie year, and whenever DHBey was injured in Oakland lol, sad but true, Murphy shined.

Again, am I missing something because it seems like a lot of intelligent people are operating under the notion JR would go out and get a player as if hes UNICEF or a charity case...pretty sure hes going and getting players because of skills he can identify.

if for nothing else, watch his game @ Pitt in 08. You can't erase the fact that the guy put THAT performance on tape. Its there. His game is capable of that. He flashed that type of ability throughout his career, often with backup QBs or a Newton who appeared more suicidal than QB last yr.

Mark my words, this guys gonna have plays that leave our jaws dropped with Eli. He can take slants all the way similar to how Wallace did vs us last yr vs Pitt. He's also a legit downfield threat, and, plays with a physicality. He did have a game last yr with Carolina even where iirc, he had the GW TD or catch and he like dominated. The guy is capable of it, I'd like to see if he can do it regularly with a QB like Eli.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 06:03 PM
yeah i wasnt trying to say murphy is like as good a player as TO was. I'm saying that some of Murphys play has some similarity to the style in which TO was used/played earlier in his career.

the point never was Murphy compared to TO as a player in terms of overall skill and how good he was, just how some things Murphy did his rookie year reminded me of TO. Kinda like how in other threads posters have discussed elements of Wilsons game that reminds them of some of the all time great rbs...

and i personally feel Murphy has a chance to do some great things here. Oakland has politics at least from what I understand, they used to have a way they did things. Deryious Heywerd Bay was their 1rst pick, top 10 overall. And despite Murphy showing he should get more attention from the offense/coaches, they continually stuck with DHB. He had an up n down stay at oakland. Usually his ups coincided with him getting chances, and lows coincided with Oakland forcing DHB into being "the guy".
last yr, he played on a dysfunctional carolina offense with a qb who struggled tremendously. i think here, with the wr's we have, and especially the QB we have, Murphy is gonna break out here.

Struggled tremendously?

The kid had almost 4000 yards. (3869 precisily with 19 TD's and 12 Ints.) (a lot more yards than the guy he'll have throwing to him this season).

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 06:05 PM
and people need to understand, lack of evidence for a particular thing (example, Murphy hasn't put together seasons where he consistently dominated) isn't evidence that Murphy CANNOT put together a season of being consistently effective. Too often I see intelligent posters believe that because said player hasn't performed at said level, that it then becomes evidence that the player cannot perform at said level. its flawed.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 06:06 PM
so u feel that last year, that dysfunctional unit called an offense in carolina is a good metric to measure Murphy with? Because, Steve Smith sucked ball sack too, pretty sure he could even be a HoF one day...

his rookie year, and whenever DHBey was injured in Oakland lol, sad but true, Murphy shined.

Again, am I missing something because it seems like a lot of intelligent people are operating under the notion JR would go out and get a player as if hes UNICEF or a charity case...pretty sure hes going and getting players because of skills he can identify.

if for nothing else, watch his game @ Pitt in 08. You can't erase the fact that the guy put THAT performance on tape. Its there. His game is capable of that. He flashed that type of ability throughout his career, often with backup QBs or a Newton who appeared more suicidal than QB last yr.

Mark my words, this guys gonna have plays that leave our jaws dropped with Eli. He can take slants all the way similar to how Wallace did vs us last yr vs Pitt. He's also a legit downfield threat, and, plays with a physicality. He did have a game last yr with Carolina even where iirc, he had the GW TD or catch and he like dominated. The guy is capable of it, I'd like to see if he can do it regularly with a QB like Eli.


We all hope the kid plays well, but if past is prologue, and it usually is, he will be a #4 or #5 WR on this team who will make a play for us from time to time.
We are very good at the top with Nicks, Cruz and Randle and Murphy was brought in here as a role player.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 06:07 PM
and people need to understand, lack of evidence for a particular thing (example, Murphy hasn't put together seasons where he consistently dominated) isn't evidence that Murphy CANNOT put together a season of being consistently effective. Too often I see intelligent posters believe that because said player hasn't performed at said level, that it then becomes evidence that the player cannot perform at said level. its flawed.
Consistently dominated? Where does this stuff come from? The kid has never shown that he's a starter as a WR in the NFL. He had 300 or so yards last year and didn't miss any time.

TCHOF
07-05-2013, 06:09 PM
We all hope the kid plays well, but if past is prologue, and it usually is, he will be a #4 or #5 WR on this team who will make a play for us from time to time.
We are very good at the top with Nicks, Cruz and Randle and Murphy was brought in here as a role player.

With Nicks on our team, our #4 WR is always a hair away from having a very significant role . . .

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 06:10 PM
With Nicks on our team, our #4 WR is always a hair away from having a very significant role . . .lol so true. unfortunately.

but murphy is a helluva guy to have as a back up plan.

TCHOF
07-05-2013, 06:11 PM
and people need to understand, lack of evidence for a particular thing (example, Murphy hasn't put together seasons where he consistently dominated) isn't evidence that Murphy CANNOT put together a season of being consistently effective. Too often I see intelligent posters believe that because said player hasn't performed at said level, that it then becomes evidence that the player cannot perform at said level. its flawed.

Depends on the body of work. If the guy's only been in the league a short time, then you might be right. If the guy is in the league 4 + years, then I think that odds are you have seen what you are going to get . . . sure the guy could have a breakout year in year 5 or 6, but it is less likely IMHO

TCHOF
07-05-2013, 06:12 PM
lol so true. unfortunately.

but murphy is a helluva guy to have as a back up plan.

Agreed

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 06:12 PM
With Nicks on our team, our #4 WR is always a hair away from having a very significant role . . .
Nicks is fine. Even if you allow for him getting hurt, that's what Randle is there for.
Again, I hope Murphy plays well (assuming he makes the team) but this fantasy that he's some superstar just waiting to break out is defied by his record on the field as an NFL player.

And he HAS a record to go by.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 06:27 PM
Depends on the body of work. If the guy's only been in the league a short time, then you might be right. If the guy is in the league 4 + years, then I think that odds are you have seen what you are going to get . . . sure the guy could have a breakout year in year 5 or 6, but it is less likely IMHOvery true. good point. but like u said, it can still happen later in a players career tho its rarer. an example is our own guy tiki. his best years were his last, and he didnt really break out until many years in his career (in the sense of he reached the levels he eventually would).

Murphy is still young(ish). Age also I guess needs to be factored. Because saw you got a guy in the league 8 years, but he entered the league at 20...ya know? James Harrison was cut 3 or 4x by Pitt before he finally "broke out". I don't think we're past the point where it'd be considered "later" in Murphys career. Imo, it varies by person obviously, Murphys still young into his career.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 06:31 PM
and just to add to my last post, situation/environment needs to be factored in as well too. Should it be held against Murphy the QB his first 3 yrs or so was Chizagrowski or some unbelievably comical QB (not only was his last name funny, his throwing motion, just the guy emitted comedy imo) and J.Russell to iirc a C.Palmer who joined the team halfway thru? Or a C.Newton who was not right mentally...blatantly wasn't right.


And also, dont forget, Oakland really did like try to almost hold Murphy back in the sense they wanted DHBey to be "the guy". Murphy was lighting defenses up and Oakland found ways to bench him so DHB could get 3 catches in a game, it was a joke. When DHB missed time, Murphy would go off...Murphy has game Im tellin u guys...dont be surprised when he started lighting up defenses....

Toadofsteel
07-05-2013, 06:40 PM
Calling Murphy "just like TO" is like calling Eli "just like Rodgers"...

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 06:51 PM
so u feel that last year, that dysfunctional unit called an offense in carolina is a good metric to measure Murphy with? Because, Steve Smith sucked (edit-filter didnt register a ter I thought it would) too, pretty sure he could even be a HoF one day...I wouldn't call an offense that ranked better in total offense than ours a "dysfunctional unit," and I also wouldn't say Steve Smith "sucked" when he put up more yards, and YPC than Victor Cruz. There's a reason Chudzinsky is now a head coach, and it's not because he led a dysfunctional unit in Carolina.


his rookie year, and whenever DHBey was injured in Oakland lol, sad but true, Murphy shined.His rookie year: he flashed in 2 games, and registered 5 or more catches one time. Reasonable production from where they drafted him, but to say he shined is overstating the fact. As for DHB's absence bringing him out, that is completely unfounded. He had one game where he played exceptionally well, and it was the Pittsburgh game. I'd liken DHB's role to Murphy like saying that whenever Nicks is out, Barden shines: untrue, and hyperbolic.


Again, am I missing something because it seems like a lot of intelligent people are operating under the notion JR would go out and get a player as if hes UNICEF or a charity case...pretty sure hes going and getting players because of skills he can identify.He picked Murphy up on a minimum contract because he's done nothing in two years to follow up a solid, but nothing-special, rookie and sophomore year.


if for nothing else, watch his game @ Pitt in 08. You can't erase the fact that the guy put THAT performance on tape. Its there. His game is capable of that. He flashed that type of ability throughout his career, often with backup QBs or a Newton who appeared more suicidal than QB last yr. Newton regressed slightly after his record rookie year, while improving in many areas like yards per throw, yards per carry, and interceptions. I wouldn't blame Newton for Murphy's inability to outproduce LaFell/Olson/Smith in an offense tailored specifically to his strong suits, e.g., vertical speed, intermediate-to-deep routes, et cetera. As for Murphy's highlight game, using any highlight (let alone one from 5 years ago) as any argument for a consistent ability to produce at that level is foolish, and a guaranteed recipe for unattainable expectations. And Murphy flashed virtually no abilities since 2010.


Mark my words, this guys gonna have plays that leave our jaws dropped with Eli. He can take slants all the way similar to how Wallace did vs us last yr vs Pitt. He's also a legit downfield threat, and, plays with a physicality. He did have a game last yr with Carolina even where iirc, he had the GW TD or catch and he like dominated. The guy is capable of it, I'd like to see if he can do it regularly with a QB like Eli.He didn't dominate at all in Carolina. One TD catch in a losing effort. You've made similar predictions with Barden in the past to have your words bear no fruit. Murphy has skills, but he is vet minimum type player as of this point, and will likely stay that way unless guys ahead of him start dropping.

With his raw abilities, and Eli's command of the offense, he has a golden ticket to success. The odds are against him, though.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 06:56 PM
Murphy was lighting defenses up and Oakland found ways to bench him so DHB could get 3 catches in a game, it was a joke. When DHB missed time, Murphy would go off...Murphy has game Im tellin u guys...dont be surprised when he started lighting up defenses....Murphy had one good game in DHB's absence, and has only caught more than 3 passes per game in only 12 of the 57 games he's played.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 07:00 PM
and people need to understand, lack of evidence for a particular thing (example, Murphy hasn't put together seasons where he consistently dominated) isn't evidence that Murphy CANNOT put together a season of being consistently effective. Too often I see intelligent posters believe that because said player hasn't performed at said level, that it then becomes evidence that the player cannot perform at said level. its flawed.I don't think I've seen anyone say that it's impossible that he can put up a respectable, 800-1200 yard season, or, Manningham-type season up here. It's about managing expectations.

He's someone Reese picked up off the scrapheaps, who can conceivably cash in on some potential, but likely won't.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 07:06 PM
I wouldn't call an offense that ranked better in total offense than ours a "dysfunctional unit," and I also wouldn't say Steve Smith "sucked" when he put up more yards, and YPC than Victor Cruz. There's a reason Chudzinsky is now a head coach, and it's not because he led a dysfunctional unit in Carolina.

His rookie year: he flashed in 2 games, and registered 5 or more catches one time. Reasonable production from where they drafted him, but to say he shined is overstating the fact. As for DHB's absence bringing him out, that is completely unfounded. He had one game where he played exceptionally well, and it was the Pittsburgh game. I'd liken DHB's role to Murphy like saying that whenever Nicks is out, Barden shines: untrue, and hyperbolic.

He picked Murphy up on a minimum contract because he's done nothing in two years to follow up a solid, but nothing-special, rookie and sophomore year.

Newton regressed slightly after his record rookie year, while improving in many areas like yards per throw, yards per carry, and interceptions. I wouldn't blame Newton for Murphy's inability to outproduce LaFell/Olson/Smith in an offense tailored specifically to his strong suits, e.g., vertical speed, intermediate-to-deep routes, et cetera. As for Murphy's highlight game, using any highlight (let alone one from 5 years ago) as any argument for a consistent ability to produce at that level is foolish, and a guaranteed recipe for unattainable expectations. And Murphy flashed virtually no abilities since 2010.

He didn't dominate at all in Carolina. One TD catch in a losing effort. You've made similar predictions with Barden in the past to have your words bear no fruit. Murphy has skills, but he is vet minimum type player as of this point, and will likely stay that way unless guys ahead of him start dropping.

With his raw abilities, and Eli's command of the offense, he has a golden ticket to success. The odds are against him, though.

just want to make sure bc sometimes it seems you try to come off as otherwise, but all the above is nothing but your opinion (except for the minor things where you try and claim newton wasnt severely messed up in his head last yr. if you want to rewrite history, fine, i wont. dude was being called out weekly for lack of leadership and pouting on the sidelines lmao).

and, my thoughts on barden are irrelevant, and a logical fallacy to try and use. the most important reason, Barden had never displayed in a game anything NEAR what Murphy has (edit-at the time I claimed Barden would break out, also, i recognized then and stated so that i knew it was a long shot).

And, more than 5 catches, more than 3 catches...I don't care about # of catches as much as what a players done with them.

fact is, by your own admission (which I feel is severely underrated but thats ok ur serving ur bias like I am just on the opposite end of the spectrum) he had a decent rookie and sophomore campaign. Well, he did so with complete jokes at QB. so, that says something imo.

i'm also unsure what the point of ur essay is, I'm not claiming Murphy is this solid, complete WR by any means. I'm saying I see a lot of potential in him. If you don't, thats fine. But your implying I am trying to say Murphys this guaranteed, cant miss player because of his history...never the case. I am aware he has been wildly inconsistent and irrelevant most of his career. I merely said I saw him flash a level of play I am more than willing to get on board with. you aren't? fine.

and, just to show u how biased ur opinion is coming off as (to me), your actually trying to argue that Al Davis wasn't trying to force DHB into this #1 WR role? Because DHB was ahead of Murphy on their depth chart for one reason only, inter team politics that Davis was known for. DHB was their top 10 pick, he was seeing the field regardless of whether Murphy or anyone shoulda been in over him. u wanna argue that???lol ok fine by me.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 07:09 PM
Calling Murphy "just like TO" is like calling Eli "just like Rodgers"...its a good thing I never said that. some one misinterpreted, which he later went onto recognize, what I said.

I said Murphy flashed/displayed aspects of his game that reminded me of a young TO on SF. Not tht Murphy is anywhere near the player TO was. Just that some of the things Murphy's done reminded me of TO. big woop. dunno the big crime in that.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 07:13 PM
its a good thing I never said that. some one misinterpreted, which he later went onto recognize, what I said.

I said Murphy flashed/displayed aspects of his game that reminded me of a young TO on SF. Not tht Murphy is anywhere near the player TO was. Just that some of the things Murphy's done reminded me of TO. big woop. dunno the big crime in that.
Here's you quote from earlier today 420....

"just watch this clip. worth every second. this guys gonna be special. a couple plays u cant tell me u couldnt swap jerseys with Owens and be able to tell the difference. "

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 07:32 PM
just want to make sure bc sometimes it seems you try to come off as otherwise, but all the above is nothing but your opinion (except for the minor things where you try and claim newton wasnt severely messed up in his head last yr. if you want to rewrite history, fine, i wont. dude was being called out weekly for lack of leadership and pouting on the sidelines lmao).All of the above is nothing but my opinion? The entire post was numbers oriented so as to avoid gray area such as "similar to T.O" or "Cam Newton was suicidal" or "shined when DHB was out." You're making these statements with no proof to back them up because they are either entirely subjective (or in the Newton case, fabricated) or, proof just doesn't exist. Show me one concrete trend that Murphy shined when DHB was out. You can provide one bit of evidence to that, and that's the Pitt game, which -- judging by his inability to repeat that performance -- is an anomaly. Any other time DHB was out, Murphy failed to make an impact to suggest that he was being intentionally held back by "team politics." As for being held back though, wasn't there another receiver spot? Did the Raiders really double down on the 1 WR sets that year?



and, my thoughts on barden are irrelevant, and a logical fallacy to try and use. the most important reason, Barden had never displayed in a game anything NEAR what Murphy has (edit-at the time I claimed Barden would break out, also, i recognized then and stated so that i knew it was a long shot).In any other case, they would be irrelevant, but when it comes to consistently placing high expectations on subpar players (as you have with Barden in the past, before poor campaigns upon poor campaigns led to equivocation), you have a history.


And, more than 5 catches, more than 3 catches...I don't care about # of catches as much as what a players done with them.Okay, do you prefer that he's only notched more than 40 yards in 16 of his 57 games?


fact is, by your own admission (which I feel is severely underrated but thats ok ur serving ur bias like I am just on the opposite end of the spectrum) he had a decent rookie and sophomore campaign. Well, he did so with complete jokes at QB. so, that says something imo.Here are last year's top receivers, statistically speaking. How many of them had a bonafide stud throwing them the QB? http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards


i'm also unsure what the point of ur essay is, I'm not claiming Murphy is this solid, complete WR by any means. I'm saying I see a lot of potential in him. If you don't, thats fine. But your implying I am trying to say Murphys this guaranteed, cant miss player because of his history...never the case. I am aware he has been wildly inconsistent and irrelevant most of his career. I merely said I saw him flash a level of play I am more than willing to get on board with. you aren't? fine.I'm not implying anything other than what it is I'm responding to, hence, the subsections created by my post. I quote and respond to tidbits at a time to ensure that I'm not unfairly keying in on a weaker aspect of your argument: a true logical fallacy.


and, just to show u how biased ur opinion is coming off as (to me), your actually trying to argue that Al Davis wasn't trying to force DHB into this #1 WR role? Because DHB was ahead of Murphy on their depth chart for one reason only, inter team politics that Davis was known for. DHB was their top 10 pick, he was seeing the field regardless of whether Murphy or anyone shoulda been in over him. u wanna argue that???lol ok fine by me.You're making Murphy out to be a victim here, but he outproduced DHB 2 out of 3 years. DHB wasn't seeing the field over Murphy, he was seeing the field with Murphy.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 07:55 PM
All of the above is nothing but my opinion? The entire post was numbers oriented so as to avoid gray area such as "similar to T.O" or "Cam Newton was suicidal" or "shined when DHB was out." You're making these statements with no proof to back them up because they are either entirely subjective (or in the Newton case, fabricated) or, proof just doesn't exist. Show me one concrete trend that Murphy shined when DHB was out. You can provide one bit of evidence to that, and that's the Pitt game, which -- judging by his inability to repeat that performance -- is an anomaly. Any other time DHB was out, Murphy failed to make an impact to suggest that he was being intentionally held back by "team politics." As for being held back though, wasn't there another receiver spot? Did the Raiders really double down on the 1 WR sets that year?


In any other case, they would be irrelevant, but when it comes to consistently placing high expectations on subpar players (as you have with Barden in the past, before poor campaigns upon poor campaigns led to equivocation), you have a history.

Okay, do you prefer that he's only notched more than 40 yards in 16 of his 57 games?

Here are last year's top receivers, statistically speaking. How many of them had a bonafide stud throwing them the QB? http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards

I'm not implying anything other than what it is I'm responding to, hence, the subsections created by my post. I quote and respond to tidbits at a time to ensure that I'm not unfairly keying in on a weaker aspect of your argument: a true logical fallacy.

You're making Murphy out to be a victim here, but he outproduced DHB 2 out of 3 years. DHB wasn't seeing the field over Murphy, he was seeing the field with Murphy.dude i dont wanna go post after post trying to re-explain the points i made. its pretty clear theres at minimum a failure in communication (as nice a word I could think of to use). your first paragraph, a couple sentences in says it all, your somehow trying to imply i shouldnt be giving my subjective opinion? i understand its subjective, i've been preambling my posts with that throughout...fail to see what it is ur trying to accomplish....

Your posts itself are proving my point. I am merely stating my opinion. all these posts ur quoting, ur taking me saying things like "he's flashed...he's had games where he's put that level of play on tape...et al" as me saying he's this great player. lol. i never once said that.

i again, merely saw potential in him his rookie sophomore years. and with another poster, said some of the things he did those 2 yrs reminded me of a young TO.

now, flash forward to here, and what is it you exactly want me to say or do or answer? what is your purpose for these essays? to tell me you dont think Murphy is this great, proven WR? ok...um, i agree?

if you dont see the potential i see in a player, great. Im certainly not gonna engage in some of these mundane irrelevant points that sometimes u use too heavily when presenting your stance. I dont even know what your stance is to be honest, nor do I think u understand mine.
so lets just agree to disagree. no disrespect intended. later.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 07:59 PM
and yes, most of it was ur opinion aside from what i did a poor job of explaining in the prvious post, the usage of the stats u tried using to try and refute my claim Newton struggled last year.


the guy was wearing towels over his face for entire 4th quarters for multiple weeks lol, there isnt a person in the world without bias that would say the claim "netwon struggled last year" is wrong. thats just one aspect of what im tryin to indicate with my previous post. a lot of these points ur trying to make are completely irrelevant, unless you believe i'm claiming something Im not, something nother poster acknowledged he did himself.

edit- it very well could be bc i have been unclear. im not too egotistical to admit that so sorry if thats the case.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 08:03 PM
420, I don't understand why you're asking me to clarify. You quoted me from the get go right here:


so u feel that last year, that dysfunctional unit called an offense in carolina is a good metric to measure Murphy with? Because, Steve Smith sucked (edit-filter didnt register a ter I thought it would) too, pretty sure he could even be a HoF one day...

his rookie year, and whenever DHBey was injured in Oakland lol, sad but true, Murphy shined.

Again, am I missing something because it seems like a lot of intelligent people are operating under the notion JR would go out and get a player as if hes UNICEF or a charity case...pretty sure hes going and getting players because of skills he can identify.

if for nothing else, watch his game @ Pitt in 08. You can't erase the fact that the guy put THAT performance on tape. Its there. His game is capable of that. He flashed that type of ability throughout his career, often with backup QBs or a Newton who appeared more suicidal than QB last yr.

Mark my words, this guys gonna have plays that leave our jaws dropped with Eli. He can take slants all the way similar to how Wallace did vs us last yr vs Pitt. He's also a legit downfield threat, and, plays with a physicality. He did have a game last yr with Carolina even where iirc, he had the GW TD or catch and he like dominated. The guy is capable of it, I'd like to see if he can do it regularly with a QB like Eli.

Since then, I've merely responded to whatever it is that you've said that was directed towards me. You seem to be under the false impression that I'm targeting you in this discussion, when it's proven to be the opposite. So these "mundane irrelevant points" are the products of the direction your taking it. I've responded directly to every aspect of posts directed towards me, as evidenced by breaking them up into pieces. All responses, no provocations. Tell me how, with mundane and irrelevant points, I'm taking us off a beaten path, so to speak.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 08:08 PM
and yes, most of it was ur opinion aside from what i did a poor job of explaining in the prvious post, the usage of the stats u tried using to try and refute my claim Newton struggled last year.


the guy was wearing towels over his face for entire 4th quarters for multiple weeks lol, there isnt a person in the world without bias that would say the claim "netwon struggled last year" is wrong. thats just one aspect of what im tryin to indicate with my previous post. a lot of these points ur trying to make are completely irrelevant, unless you believe i'm claiming something Im not, something nother poster acknowledged he did himself.

edit- it very well could be bc i have been unclear. im not too egotistical to admit that so sorry if thats the case.Every QB struggles every year. In the context you provided (justification for Murphy), it was a poor rationale. Newton, despite the struggles that every QB faces, in every year, produced another great season with 4000 yards passing, and 700 yards rushing.

"More suicidal than QB" is another one. Completely fabricated to serve your purpose: justifying Murphy's inability to produce last year. That's textbook bias.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 08:28 PM
i asked if u felt it was a good metric to use with Murphy (playing on a dysfunctional offense)...

Carolinas offense was dysfunctional almost all of last yr. how its mundane and irrelevant is now we're talkin about carolina, when its unnecessary. especially if your actually of the opinion that newton didnt appear to even be suicidal at times last yr after games (it was discussed a ton)...

ur trying to disprove those premises bc then the carolina season would in fact be a poor metric to use. u can cite whatever stat u want, its irrelevant. newton and carolinas offense was dysfunctional, and newton was not all there mentally. if u wanna claim thats not the case, fine by me. which is exactly what I said originally.

GameTime
07-05-2013, 08:37 PM
simple...
Murphy can and should be effective

Murphy < TO.....by a large margin

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 08:38 PM
i asked if u felt it was a good metric to use with Murphy (playing on a dysfunctional offense)...

Carolinas offense was dysfunctional almost all of last yr. how its mundane and irrelevant is now we're talkin about carolina, when its unnecessary. especially if your actually of the opinion that newton didnt appear to even be suicidal at times last yr after games (it was discussed a ton)...

ur trying to disprove those premises bc then the carolina season would in fact be a poor metric to use. u can cite whatever stat u want, its irrelevant. newton and carolinas offense was dysfunctional, and newton was not all there mentally. if u wanna claim thats not the case, fine by me. which is exactly what I said originally.Well tell me how Carolina's offense was dysfunctional. You produced it as fact, so I'm assuming you have adequate support. You find it mundane, but you're the one who brought it up, and I doubt it's validity as it pertains to the debate.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 08:41 PM
And I still don't see how responding directly to your post's contents produces irrelevancy. If it is indeed true, then you're guilty of bringing up irrelevant information.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 08:45 PM
Well tell me how Carolina's offense was dysfunctional. You produced it as fact, so I'm assuming you have adequate support. You find it mundane, but you're the one who brought it up, and I doubt it's validity as it pertains to the debate.well for one, their coaches and newton would tell u urself their offense struggled tremendously last yr.
they couldnt get their run game going. a large chunk of their success his rookie year was thanks to his legs. for whatever reason, newton was having issues running. and that was having issues on their rb's effectiveness.

thats why i said i could care less about their stats. they run an unorthodox offense thats gonna generate yards whether they play well or not. but, theres a reason for like 7 or 8 games last yr, Newton was on the sidelines visibly displaying questionable attitudes/emotions. a couple games he was like hiding from the world. suicidial was a poor choice of word, but, he def. looked depressed n miserable most of last yr until they had that somewhat good streak to close the season.

but im not gonna pretend like i can run off stats to support the above. i just know it to be true. if u disagree thats fine just as if u disagree with my assessment of potential murphy has, thats fine as well.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 08:47 PM
And I still don't see how responding directly to your post's contents produces irrelevancy. If it is indeed true, then you're guilty of bringing up irrelevant information.for the last time, i didnt bring that up. posters tried using (u and some others iirc) the season in carolina as a metric to use to measure Murphys play. I dont, because the offense was dysfunctional and it was his first yr trying to acclimate himself with the offense/and qb who were struggling to do the basic stuff let alone complex stuff.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 08:51 PM
another example of the irrelevant, mundane stuff is ur stats on murphys career thus far, the number of 3 n 5 catch games, how many times he out did DHB in a game, et al...that'd be germane if I was claiming Murphy is this proven, solid WR. I'm not.

i mean i dunno if u even really know what ur arguing lol honestly. all i've done is passionately state my optimism in the guys potential and how its actually visible in some games. that the talent is there.

your like saying thats not good enough for you and incinuating I should change my opinion? i knew the entire time this has been my subjective opinion lol. can i feel he has a ton of potential?

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 08:58 PM
well for one, their coaches and newton would tell u urself their offense struggled tremendously last yr.
they couldnt get their run game going. a large chunk of their success his rookie year was thanks to his legs. for whatever reason, newton was having issues running. and that was having issues on their rb's effectiveness.If their success was due in large part to his legs in 2011, wouldn't your dysfunction notion be completely obliterated since Newton had more rushing yards, and a higher yards per carry last year?


thats why i said i could care less about their stats. they run an unorthodox offense thats gonna generate yards whether they play well or not. but, theres a reason for like 7 or 8 games last yr, Newton was on the sidelines visibly displaying questionable attitudes/emotions. a couple games he was like hiding from the world. suicidial was a poor choice of word, but, he def. looked depressed n miserable most of last yr until they had that somewhat good streak to close the season.They lost a lot. If he was showing signs of happiness, he'd be crucified by the media for not appearing to care.


but im not gonna pretend like i can run off stats to support the above. i just know it to be true. if u disagree thats fine just as if u disagree with my assessment of potential murphy has, thats fine as well.Even if you wanted to run stats off, you couldn't, because they don't exist to support your premise of a dysfunctional offense; their coordinator is now a HC because of a great job done in Carolina. And although I disagree, that doesn't mean we can't engage in debate. I'm surprised you don't want to debate this anymore if you're so assured, and if you initiated the debate to begin with.

And the flawed notion that Carolina's offense was dysfunctional is only one claim I responded to. You've made other ones that I've responded too, but you've since gone on to denounce as irrelevant or mundane, for some reason.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 09:02 PM
another example of the irrelevant, mundane stuff is ur stats on murphys career thus far, the number of 3 n 5 catch games, how many times he out did DHB in a game, et al...that'd be germane if I was claiming Murphy is this proven, solid WR. I'm not.You're the one who said that "Murphy shined when DHB was out." I looked it up, and that's simply not true at all. You brought up, as a way to undermine DHB (to advance your theory that he was held back) by saying: "Murphy was lighting defenses up and Oakland found ways to bench him so DHB could get 3 catches in a game, it was a joke." I looked it up, and it turns out 3 catches was a pretty tough standard for Murphy to meet, too (less than 25% of the time). Again, I'm rebutting what you're sending my way, not coming up with arbitrary benchmarks.


i mean i dunno if u even really know what ur arguing lol honestly. all i've done is passionately state my optimism in the guys potential and how its actually visible in some games. that the talent is there. I'm arguing whatever flawed justifications for Murphy you're presenting me. You presented something, I challenge it, but instead of refuting my statements, you call them irrelevant.


your like saying thats not good enough for you and incinuating I should change my opinion? i knew the entire time this has been my subjective opinion lol. can i feel he has a ton of potential?You can feel whatever you want. I never quoted you, you're the one who originally quoted me. I'm not attacking your personal opinion, I'm responding to whatever you're sending my way.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 09:03 PM
i dont think ud be able to find one writer/analyst who would disagree with the statement "carolinas offense and newton were dysfunctional last yr"...you don't need stats to quantify it, altho im sure i could find them if i wanted to. i dont. its cool. pretty sure even a casual fan remembers how inept carolinas offense was for much of last season.
and theres a diff between being upset, and hiding from teammates, refusing to go in, and having the post game conferences he had...lmfao that stuff was comical how u can say THATS not dysfunctional, the mentality he was displaying...beyond me.

and the reason i dont want to discuss it further, is bc its a topic i dont find relevant, at all. i was merely commenting on the potential/talent i felt murphy had and displayed at times. im just gonna go ahead and find ya in another thread or something. later buddy.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 09:04 PM
You're the one who said that "Murphy shined when DHB was out." I looked it up, and that's simply not true at all. You brought up, as a way to undermine DHB (to advance your theory that he was held back) by saying: "Murphy was lighting defenses up and Oakland found ways to bench him so DHB could get 3 catches in a game, it was a joke."

I'm arguing whatever flawed justifications for Murphy you're presenting me. You presented something, I challenge it, but instead of refuting my statements, you call them irrelevant.

You can feel whatever you want. I never quoted you, you're the one who originally quoted me. I'm not attacking your personal opinion, I'm responding to whatever you're sending my way.by ur very words/admission, murphys finest game was that pitt game. dhb was out that game. hence, the comment i made (and how its accurate). last response i'll make. lol. so irrelevant to the actual topic.

edit-yeah, it was a joke. everything u quoted on me is accurate even by posts uve made earlier lol.
it was a joke. murphy clearly showed he should be gettin more snaps by his play. he was continually benched in favor of DHB. both were rookies. dont act like they coulda just played him opposite of DHB either. cmon. ur tryin to argue the funniest things that are completely known/established;

carolina/newton was dysfunctional last yr
Al Davis made it known DHB was going to start and be the guy, regardless of what he actually did on field.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 09:10 PM
for the last time, i didnt bring that up. posters tried using (u and some others iirc) the season in carolina as a metric to use to measure Murphys play. I dont, because the offense was dysfunctional and it was his first yr trying to acclimate himself with the offense/and qb who were struggling to do the basic stuff let alone complex stuff.You posed the question as: "so u feel that last year, that dysfunctional unit called an offense in carolina is a good metric to measure Murphy with? Because, Steve Smith sucked (edit-filter didnt register a ter I thought it would) too, pretty sure he could even be a HoF one day..."

Except:

1.) You're struggling to prove with tangible evidence that Carolina was dysfunctional.

2.) Steve Smith didn't suck.

3.) Cam Newton continued to break records this year.

So, of course I disagree with it. If you, for some reason after initiating the debate, don't want to defend those claims, that's fine: concede them, then.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 09:14 PM
by ur very words/admission, murphys finest game was that pitt game. dhb was out that game. hence, the comment i made (and how its accurate). last response i'll make. lol. so irrelevant to the actual topic.

edit-yeah, it was a joke. everything u quoted on me is accurate even by posts uve made earlier lol.
it was a joke. murphy clearly showed he should be gettin more snaps by his play. he was continually benched in favor of DHB. both were rookies. dont act like they coulda just played him opposite of DHB either. cmon. ur tryin to argue the funniest things that are completely known/established;

carolina/newton was dysfunctional last yr
Al Davis made it known DHB was going to start and be the guy, regardless of what he actually did on field.They did play Murphy opposite DHB, and Murphy outproduced DHB him in 2 of the 3 years. You're notion that he was being held back holds no weight. You think they're established and proven, but if they were, you'd have no problem supporting them with evidence.

Further, the Pitt game has proven to be an anomaly, like Barden's game in Carolina. If you were to say that "it's established that Barden thrives when Nicks is out" people would look strangely at you. That's what you're saying with Murphy. DHB had an infinitesimally small role in Murphy's game in Oakland, as evidenced by DHB's inability to outproduce Murphy 2 out of 3 years. I'm somewhat praising Murphy here, if you aren't noticing.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 09:16 PM
They did play Murphy opposite DHB, and Murphy outproduced DHB him in 2 of the 3 years. You're notion that he was being held back holds no weight. You think they're established and proven, but if they were, you'd have no problem supporting them with evidence.

Further, the Pitt game has proven to be an anomaly, like Barden's game in Carolina. If you were to say that "it's established that Barden thrives when Nicks is out" people would look strangely at you. That's what you're saying with Murphy. DHB had an infinitesimally small role in Murphy's game in Oakland, as evidenced by DHB's inability to outproduce Murphy 2 out of 3 years. I'm somewhat praising Murphy here, if you aren't noticing.
Carolina was 12th in offense while we were 14th.
Not sure what he means by disfunctional. Isn't productivity the final arbitor?

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 09:19 PM
i dont think ud be able to find one writer/analyst who would disagree with the statement "carolinas offense and newton were dysfunctional last yr"...you don't need stats to quantify it, altho im sure i could find them if i wanted to. i dont. its cool. pretty sure even a casual fan remembers how inept carolinas offense was for much of last season.
and theres a diff between being upset, and hiding from teammates, refusing to go in, and having the post game conferences he had...lmfao that stuff was comical how u can say THATS not dysfunctional, the mentality he was displaying...beyond me.

and the reason i dont want to discuss it further, is bc its a topic i dont find relevant, at all. i was merely commenting on the potential/talent i felt murphy had and displayed at times. im just gonna go ahead and find ya in another thread or something. later buddy.You can't find any respected writer/analyst to support that. Maybe emotionally charged Panther fans after a devastating loss, but no one with an unbiased opinion. Newton's personality still did not keep him from having another stellar year, which is another thing you can't disprove.

And I'm fine with you discussing Murphy's "potential/talent" that's A-okay by me. I didn't force you to quote my post on his disappointing year in Carolina, where he had all the chances to succeed in a top ranked offense, with a record-breaking QB, under the tutelage of an OC who has since gone on to be a HC.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 09:23 PM
You can't find any respected writer/analyst to support that. Maybe emotionally charged Panther fans after a devastating loss, but no one with an unbiased opinion. Newton's personality still did not keep him from having another stellar year, which is another thing you can't disprove.

And I'm fine with you discussing Murphy's "potential/talent" that's A-okay by me. I didn't force you to quote my post on his disappointing year in Carolina, where he had all the chances to succeed in a top ranked offense, with a record-breaking QB, under the tutelage of an OC who has since gone on to be a HC.

The rap on Newton was usually non football behavior. Like arguing with refs and over celebrating. The Carolina offense was actually quite dynamic and offered a great chance for a speed guy like Murphy to shine. He failed miserably when he had that chance.
I've never heard Steve Smith complaining about Cam Newton. He helped revitalize Smith's career.

This notion that the Carolina offense was "disfuntional" or that there were any other reasons why a WR isn't given a fair shot is not backed by reality.

What a shock!

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 09:42 PM
You can't find any respected writer/analyst to support that. Maybe emotionally charged Panther fans after a devastating loss, but no one with an unbiased opinion. Newton's personality still did not keep him from having another stellar year, which is another thing you can't disprove.

And I'm fine with you discussing Murphy's "potential/talent" that's A-okay by me. I didn't force you to quote my post on his disappointing year in Carolina, where he had all the chances to succeed in a top ranked offense, with a record-breaking QB, under the tutelage of an OC who has since gone on to be a HC.it literally took me less than 5 seconds

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/41083/nfc-south-land-of-confusion

dysfunction rating:100%.
they started the year 1-6.

dude, lmao.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 09:44 PM
Carolina Panthers: Hurney got fired after a 1-5 start and the Panthers now have extended their record to 1-6. Coach Ron Rivera probably has about as much chance of keeping his job as John Fox did in 2010.

Quarterback Cam Newton isn’t doing well on the field, and the results of his postgame news conferences have been even more disastrous.

What’s most stunning about this is that the whole world thought the Panthers were a team on the rise after going 6-10 in the first season for Newton and Rivera. I’m still trying to figure out how the Panthers have spun into chaos so quickly and in such spectacular fashion.

Dysfunction rating: 100 percent: With Hurney gone, different people who work in Bank of America Stadium give you different answers about who’s in charge. At the moment, this team is a rudderless ship.


LMFAO! DYSFUNCTIONAL.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 09:45 PM
gmen, u've been owned. newton had a dysfunctional 2012 with all the covering of his face with the towels, crying after the games, refusing to answer questions, et al.

they fired their friggin GM lmao. they went 1-6. i believe like 2-9 at one point or even worse. how u can sit there and say that no one would claim they were dysfunctional and that no stats bear it just shows how little accurate knowledge u hold of the situation. peace.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 09:47 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000101742/article/cam-newton-must-get-right-kind-of-help-from-carolina-panthers

dude cmon. i dont mean to laugh, but what the hell were u thinking?

michael lombardi>gmen0820 despite the actual respect i have for the poster. tremendous football mind. just way off on this one.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 09:51 PM
it literally took me less than 5 seconds

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/41083/nfc-south-land-of-confusion

dysfunction rating:100%.
they started the year 1-6.

dude, lmao.I'm actually surprised you even found that, so I'll give that to you.

But as you know, the season doesn't end on November 1st (the date the rating was given), so how do you explain Murphy's inability to produce when the Panthers went on to go 6-3, rank 12th in offense, another Newton record, and get their OC a HC gig?

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 09:54 PM
I've never seen such confirmation bias in my life. You're cherry picking articles from when the Panthers started rough, and are still ignoring that -- in the context of this argument -- they provided ample opportunities for Murphy to capitalize, but he still didn't. 12th in total offense, more records for Newton, and their OC is now a HC.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 09:59 PM
i couldnt think of a better word to use to describe a team that started 2-8 and finished 5-1 than dysfunctional

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 10:00 PM
michael lombardi week 14 is confirmation bias? i just searched n found those results it took me 10 seconds, huh???

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:02 PM
i couldnt think of a better word to use to describe a team that started 2-8 and finished 5-1 than dysfunctionalSeems like, productivity speaking, no one else in Carolina -- from Newton, to Smith, to LaFell, to Olson -- had any problem putting up a solid year. It still doesn't absolve Murphy from being a guy who couldn't step up despite all the chances he had.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 10:02 PM
the guy was literally hiding from his team under towels and refusing to finish our game, he was giving these ridiculous post game conferences that were becoming national jokes. people were LITERALLY questioning if he had mentally broken down.

i'd say a young WR trying to get acclimated with the offense/qb in his first yr there is gonna have some issues developing chemistry and getting on the same page.


hell, even steve smith was vocal throughout the year about how newton couldnt continue acting the way he was acting and that he was isolating himself and pushing teammates away... like wth are you talkin about man?????

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:03 PM
michael lombardi week 14 is confirmation bias? i just searched n found those results it took me 10 seconds, huh???I don't even need to search to know that article was written in November and week 14 is played in December.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:04 PM
And yet they were a higher rated offense than ours.

BTW, just to look at the "WR friendly" nature of the Carolina offense.
Steve Smith in the two year prior to Cam Newton: 1536 yards with 9 TD's
Steve Smith in the two years with Cam Newton: 2668 yards with 11 TD's.

Certainly a much better environment for WR's in Carolina. Why do we think Louis Murphy couldn't produce squat in this offense?

Maybe its because he's mediocre.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 10:05 PM
and, ur showing a logical fallacy again. just because he didnt have a good year in carolina doesnt become evidence that he can't have good years anywhere else in the future, including carolina. ur really presenting a laughable stance and ur making it because i've stated that i know its my opinion but i feel murphy has a ton of potential that he's actually displayed in games (he actually has, u cant take that away). and that im extremely optimistic he will be a difference maker with his first real legit QB imo with Eli.

i have zero idea what ur tryin to argue, which is why i said these points u were making were irrelvant. we've been discussing whether or not carolinas offense was dysfunctional or not lmao for like 10 posts wtf??? IRRELEVANT.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 10:06 PM
I don't even need to search to know that article was written in November and week 14 is played in December.sigh. another useless, irrelevant point. my bad. week 12 or week 13 whatever it was lmfao. IRRELEVANT.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:07 PM
the guy was literally hiding from his team under towels and refusing to finish our game, he was giving these ridiculous post game conferences that were becoming national jokes. people were LITERALLY questioning if he had mentally broken down.

i'd say a young WR trying to get acclimated with the offense/qb in his first yr there is gonna have some issues developing chemistry and getting on the same page.



hell, even steve smith was vocal throughout the year about how newton couldnt continue acting the way he was acting and that he was isolating himself and pushing teammates away... like wth are you talkin about man?????
And since you can't explain why Carolina's offense was better than ours and Cam Newton more productive than our guy, you have lost the argument.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:08 PM
and, ur showing a logical fallacy again. just because he didnt have a good year in carolina doesnt become evidence that he can't have good years anywhere else in the future, including carolina. ur really presenting a laughable stance and ur making it because i've stated that i know its my opinion but i feel murphy has a ton of potential that he's actually displayed in games (he actually has, u cant take that away). and that im extremely optimistic he will be a difference maker with his first real legit QB imo with Eli.

i have zero idea what ur tryin to argue, which is why i said these points u were making were irrelvant. we've been discussing whether or not carolinas offense was dysfunctional or not lmao for like 10 posts wtf??? IRRELEVANT.

"Potential" is exposed before year 5 in a WR's career.
he is what he is. A speed guy who has never been productive.

Do Ron Dixon and Tim Carter ring a bell?

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 10:08 PM
bottom line, u said i wouldnt be able to find one analyst who would say carolinas offense was dysfunctional or struggled, and yet i found 2 sources in 5 seconds (espn, nfl.com) with an article written by michael lombardi completely focusing on what I've been saying lmfao.

you couldn't find one analyst to back up what ur saying, because, well because carolina did have a dysfunctional 2012 lol.im off this this is stupid. my bad if i was rude no joke honestly i get that way with u sometimes by 2nd nature thats my bad no disrespect meant. peace.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:09 PM
the guy was literally hiding from his team under towels and refusing to finish our game, he was giving these ridiculous post game conferences that were becoming national jokes. people were LITERALLY questioning if he had mentally broken down.

i'd say a young WR trying to get acclimated with the offense/qb in his first yr there is gonna have some issues developing chemistry and getting on the same page.


hell, even steve smith was vocal throughout the year about how newton couldnt continue acting the way he was acting and that he was isolating himself and pushing teammates away... like wth are you talkin about man?????Newton's personality drew criticism because they were losing. He was still putting up incredible numbers. Someone was catching those passes, and they weren't Murphy. Steve Smith called his antics out due to his in-game shenanigans, and as you know, chemistry is built throughout the week. How was Cam Newton in practice? Can you comment on that?

Was he refusing to practice with Murphy? Was Chudzinsky "holding him back," too?

And if anything, Murphy should be acclimated to dysfunction. Anything he experienced in Carolina last year would pale in comparison to what he probably saw in Oakland, and yet, he still regressed off his career averages.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:10 PM
bottom line, u said i wouldnt be able to find one analyst who would say carolinas offense was dysfunctional or struggled, and yet i found 2 sources in 5 seconds (espn, nfl.com) with an article written by michael lombardi completely focusing on what I've been saying lmfao.

you couldn't find one analyst to back up what ur saying, because, well because carolina did have a dysfunctional 2012 lol.im off this this is stupid. my bad if i was rude no joke honestly i get that way with u sometimes by 2nd nature thats my bad no disrespect meant. peace.420, you do realize how foolish you sound using Lombardi to justify your case, right?

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:10 PM
bottom line, u said i wouldnt be able to find one analyst who would say carolinas offense was dysfunctional or struggled, and yet i found 2 sources in 5 seconds (espn, nfl.com) with an article written by michael lombardi completely focusing on what I've been saying lmfao.

you couldn't find one analyst to back up what ur saying, because, well because carolina did have a dysfunctional 2012 lol.im off this this is stupid. my bad if i was rude no joke honestly i get that way with u sometimes by 2nd nature thats my bad no disrespect meant. peace.
The issue is Louis Murphy and his play in Carolina. A team that had a QB throw for almost 4000 yards and Murphy represented less than 10% of that.
As he probably will here. Which is fine because he's way down on the depth charts.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 10:11 PM
420, you do realize how foolish you sound using Lombardi to justify your case, right?lmao ANOTHER logical fallacy, what r u going for the cycle???

YOU said i'd "only be able to find carolina football fans that would make the points im making and no analyst would."

took me 5 sec to prove yet another statement u made dead wrong. and it took even less for u to use another logical fallacy to feel better bout urself. look, im gonna leave now. peace.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:12 PM
lmao ANOTHER logical fallacy, what r u going for the cycle???

YOU said i'd "only be able to find carolina football fans that would make the points im making and no analyst would."

took me 5 sec to prove yet another statement u made dead wrong. and it took even less for u to use another logical fallacy to feel better bout urself. look, im gonna leave now. peace.Do you know what Lombardi is doing now?

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:12 PM
And I've conceded that you've proved me wrong in finding a source (which is 1% of the argument I've presented thus far). You keying in on it itself is a logical fallacy.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:14 PM
And I've conceded that you've proved me wrong in finding a source (which is 1% of the argument I've presented thus far). You keying in on it itself is a logical fallacy.
820..I told you. He lost the argument on T.O. He lost the argument on Louis Murphy. He even lost the argument about the Carolina offense, and you allowed him to claim victory on an irrelevant point.

You need to listen to Morehead more often.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:15 PM
The issue is Louis Murphy and his play in Carolina. A team that had a QB throw for almost 4000 yards and Murphy represented less than 10% of that.
As he probably will here. Which is fine because he's way down on the depth charts.He's proved me wrong in one irrelevant point and is planning to milk it home.

Congrats, 420. Would you like to address any other portion of my argument?

I'll add something new: what is Michael Lombardi's job title right now?

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:20 PM
and, ur showing a logical fallacy again. just because he didnt have a good year in carolina doesnt become evidence that he can't have good years anywhere else in the future, including carolina. Which I haven't insinuated. I find it incriminating, and it certainly tempers my expectations, but -- as I've said before -- don't completely write him off. Still doesn't make your justifications accurate.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:22 PM
Which I haven't insinuated. I find it incriminating, and it certainly tempers my expectations, but -- as I've said before -- don't completely write him off. Still doesn't make your justifications accurate.
Can't say I didn't warn you 820. You won every argument but still..........

Roosevelt
07-05-2013, 10:27 PM
Right now Murphy is, at best #4 on the WR depth chart.
One could also make an argument that he still has a lot to prove in order to make this team. If you are a #4 WR, you better be able to play ST's. I'm actually not sure if he plays ST's, or play them well. I guess I can see him as a gunner on the punt team, given his size and speed.
But this entire T.O. discussion is so silly it's really ridiculous to discuss it.
Murphy has had opportunity after opportunity over the course of his 4 year career, including and especially last year where he was essentially invisible.

That's doesn't mean I don't like his signing because he's signed on the cheap and I definitely can see him contributing. But lets all try to keep a little perspective here,

You obviously are neglecting the EF.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 10:30 PM
Which I haven't insinuated. I find it incriminating, and it certainly tempers my expectations, but -- as I've said before -- don't completely write him off. Still doesn't make your justifications accurate.

justifications?

are you temporarily loony?

i've stated this entire time THAT ITS MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION that this guy has a ton of potential, and that he's displayed it in some games. WTF are you on? can i get some?

this is similar to what happened with b n r this very thread. we had a debate about Murphy reminding me of TO (his rookie sophomore years compared to TO on SF). He took that to mean I was saying Murphy was inany way comparable to TO as a player. And, he made a ton of posts explaining how I was incorrect.

Until he finally conceded "Oh, I honestly didn't realize it til just now that you meant Murphy reminded you of TO on some plays, but not that he was as good as TO" which I had said repeatedly.

Here, your continually trying to engage in debate just for the sake of debate I dunno? And, I dunno what your stance is to this point, still dont. You originally conversed with me based on Murphy and how he wasn't this proven WR. To which, I questioned where the hell u were coming up with me saying that? I then made a comment I wish I hadnt bc u prob wouldnt have made a dozen of the needless posts u made, the whole mundane irrelevant comment. But, it is true. You continually were keying in on mundane, irrelevant points for what reason, I still dont know.

What are you trying to accomplish here? What do you want me to say that would make you happy? That I dont think Murphy is this proven, good WR? Bc I never said so.

ALL I"VE SAID IS I PERSONALLY FEEL HE HAS A TON OF POTENTIAL AND WILL SHOW IT WITH THE FIRST REAL QB IMO HE'S HAD.

you cannot make me come off that, bc its my opinion. and i dont need to justify it, although I feel I have, in the face of some completely asinine comments you've made.

edit- and, Michael Lombardi being Gm of the Browns now has nothing to do with him being an analyst at the time he wrote that article completely focusing on the dysfunctionality of carolinas offense. i've even tried being respectful in stating I did not mean to be rude or disrespectful, and that its almost 2nd nature when we disagree because we've agreed so much lately.
if you wanna honestly start acting like some other posters here that display an exaggerated mentality/attitude ur displaying here with me, so be it. im not gonna lose sleep peace.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:30 PM
You obviously are neglecting the EF.
EF?

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:36 PM
justifications?

are you temporarily loony?

i've stated this entire time THAT ITS MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION that this guy has a ton of potential, and that he's displayed it in some games. WTF are you on? can i get some?

this is similar to what happened with b n r this very thread. we had a debate about Murphy reminding me of TO (his rookie sophomore years compared to TO on SF). He took that to mean I was saying Murphy was inany way comparable to TO as a player. And, he made a ton of posts explaining how I was incorrect.

Until he finally conceded "Oh, I honestly didn't realize it til just now that you meant Murphy reminded you of TO on some plays, but not that he was as good as TO" which I had said repeatedly.

Here, your continually trying to engage in debate just for the sake of debate I dunno? And, I dunno what your stance is to this point, still dont. You originally conversed with me based on Murphy and how he wasn't this proven WR. To which, I questioned where the hell u were coming up with me saying that? I then made a comment I wish I hadnt bc u prob wouldnt have made a dozen of the needless posts u made, the whole mundane irrelevant comment. But, it is true. You continually were keying in on mundane, irrelevant points for what reason, I still dont know.

What are you trying to accomplish here? What do you want me to say that would make you happy? That I dont think Murphy is this proven, good WR? Bc I never said so.

ALL I"VE SAID IS I PERSONALLY FEEL HE HAS A TON OF POTENTIAL AND WILL SHOW IT WITH THE FIRST REAL QB IMO HE'S HAD.

you cannot make me come off that, bc its my opinion. and i dont need to justify it, although I feel I have, in the face of some completely asinine comments you've made.No need to get defensive. I still don't see why you're up in arms with me: I didn't originally quote you. I can't stress that enough. You quoted me when I brought up concerns with his poor 2012 season, and have since been trying to justify it for two pages.

"He's been held back by Oakland" -- That's a justification, I refuted it with numbers
"Carolina was dysfunctional" -- That's a justification, I refuted it with numbers. Even if Carolina was dysfunctional, they were still highly productive and Murphy still couldn't do anything.


"When DHB was out, he shined" -- refuted with numbers.

You've been trying to justify it this whole time, and abysmally at that.

By the way, Michael Lombardi, your "owning source" is now Browns GM. Guess who he hired as HC? Rob Chudzinsky.

Roosevelt
07-05-2013, 10:41 PM
EF?

Eli factor. C'mom bro. When this cat steps on the field with Mr. Elite he'll become Super TO.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:42 PM
Eli factor. C'mom bro. When this cat steps on the field with Mr. Elite he'll become Super TO.
Well it happened to Jernigan and Barden. So I think he makes a good point.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 10:42 PM
Eli factor. C'mom bro. When this cat steps on the field with Mr. Elite he'll become Super TO.Why couldn't he do that with Superman last year? 4000 yards. Someone had to catch 'em.

Imgrate
07-05-2013, 10:43 PM
Why do you guys waste your time?

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:44 PM
Why do you guys waste your time?
Its like looking into the sun. You simply must!!!

Imgrate
07-05-2013, 10:45 PM
Its like looking into the sun. You simply must!!!I'd rather bang my head against a wall.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:47 PM
I'd rather bang my head against a wall.
Same thing.

Roosevelt
07-05-2013, 10:51 PM
Well it happened to Jernigan and Barden. So I think he makes a good point.

There you go. Point proven.

Morehead State
07-05-2013, 10:54 PM
There you go. Point proven.
Ultimate point here is that we all hope Murphy does well. I personally like his speed but he's a classic underachiever, just like Tim Carter. We held onto him too long because of the speed.
The comparisons to T.O. are ridiculous of course. Guys like Murphy are all over the league. Speed isn't hard to find. Good football players are. He's yet to prove that he's a good football player and he's had plenty of chances to do so.

Roosevelt
07-05-2013, 11:03 PM
Ultimate point here is that we all hope Murphy does well. I personally like his speed but he's a classic underachiever, just like Tim Carter. We held onto him too long because of the speed.
The comparisons to T.O. are ridiculous of course. Guys like Murphy are all over the league. Speed isn't hard to find. Good football players are. He's yet to prove that he's a good football player and he's had plenty of chances to do so.

Sounds reasonable. I don't know enough about him to truly comment, but of course I'd be very happy for him to turn around his career right here.

tonyt830
07-06-2013, 12:54 AM
Eric Herman, OG
Cooper Taylor, S/LB Hybrid
Will Hill, S
Louis Murphy, WR
Aaron Curry, LBI dont see Herman getting much p/t this season unless there are some injuries on the o-line. But I hope he develops and becomes our LG/RG of the future.

I did not know much if anything about Taylor before the draft. But he seems intriguing and can maybe contribute on ST this season and become that hybrid that matches up well with TEs and backs.

With Hill, I am rooting for him. He had a rough patch and hope he stays on the straight and narrow. Once again, with some more reps, he can be a quality(not saying all-pro) safety.

I think Murphy will add a dimension to our pass game in certain packages. He is quick and will be a deep threat. The more reps he gets with an all-pro QB in Eli, I think he gets better. He may not get more than 15 to 20 catches this season, but I feel he will make the most of them.

As for Curry, Im all about giving him the benefit of the doubt. Of course I hope he can win a starting job and resurrect his career with the Giants. And we all know, the Giants LB corps has not been their strong suit, for one reason or another, the passed few seasons.

Rudyy
07-06-2013, 02:40 PM
Uh, why is MS banned?

Drez
07-06-2013, 08:34 PM
Uh, why is MS banned?I dunno, but wouldn't it be nuts if we found out that MS and 420 were the same person?!!?!?!

gmen0820
07-06-2013, 09:23 PM
I dunno, but wouldn't it be nuts if we found out that MS and 420 were the same person?!!?!?!http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/archive/b/b5/20100108063328!Exploding-head.gif

Roosevelt
07-06-2013, 09:35 PM
Would the Mod who banned him please let us know what happened?

Mod_C
07-06-2013, 09:41 PM
Those are not matters for public discussion.