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View Full Version : fair well, Hakeem Nicks



gmenfan0488
07-05-2013, 01:39 AM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.

fizzlesticks
07-05-2013, 02:01 AM
We'll sign him np. Maybe not him and JPP, but I'd much rather keep Nicks.

B&RWarrior
07-05-2013, 02:18 AM
We'll sign him np. Maybe not him and JPP, but I'd much rather keep Nicks.

I'm a huge Nicks fan, but I don't know about picking him over JPP.

Sovereign
07-05-2013, 03:24 AM
Ah an expert on capology, I applaud for for mastering such a difficult topic.

NYG4lifeNYK
07-05-2013, 04:32 AM
.............

Die-Hard
07-05-2013, 05:19 AM
Eli will extend his deal sometime before Nicks' contract is up, thereby creating enough room to keep Nicks, and possibly JPP as well

Mark it down

NYGabriel
07-05-2013, 05:26 AM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.

Nostradamus? Is that you?

Scoobie-Doo
07-05-2013, 05:29 AM
I have a feeling Nicks will end up with Panthers.

1. His hometown area
2. Steve Smith aging
3. More cap space
4. Ex Giant as GM now (forget his name Gettleman?)

penguinfarmer
07-05-2013, 06:12 AM
Nicks will be re-signed.

egyptian420
07-05-2013, 06:33 AM
I hope Nicks re-signs here....if he has a huge year (and Cruz gets a huge contract) then I don't see him staying

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 07:11 AM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.

It's not obvious at all. We need to wait until the season actually starts and see what happens. Could it happen? Of course. But it's not clearly going to happen. The CAP will not be as restrictive as it was in 2013.

Eliscruzzz
07-05-2013, 07:25 AM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.We have no idea what the details of the contract is and the season hasn't even started yet.

BklynBlue
07-05-2013, 07:30 AM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant. Ohhh GEEEEEZ!

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 07:42 AM
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe that's why they drafted Randle last year. We simply don't know. Someone posted that the Giants may have a on of cap space next year unlike this year.

NYGAiG88
07-05-2013, 07:43 AM
I guess since Cruz is going to sign people have to complain and cry about something now.

Dorothy
07-05-2013, 07:46 AM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.

WOW!!i didn't realize you guys that run the Giants organization posted on this board, thanks for the heads up about Nicks. We as fans will keep am eye out for a replacement for him.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 07:48 AM
While it may be to early to say he won't be here next year it would not be surprising at all.

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 08:06 AM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIPx5aQ2MM3H4mayxfzQix0jaG8BM6C yMfv68f4OACAqLM4wEMGHW0T-fr

Notice how the "expert" predicting this is Nicks last season posts and then does not reply or back-up his reason behind it. He just posts and leaves... This post looks, reads, and sounds like it was written by a troll...it must be a troll.

egyptian420
07-05-2013, 08:39 AM
Why all the hostility folks? I know the lot of you are probably hung over from last night but cut the OP some slack. I disagree that it's set in stone that were losing Nicks but that's what the message board is for: discussion, debate and sharing of different views.

Red Dog
07-05-2013, 08:41 AM
Obviously you didn't get the email. The Giants will sign Nicks and Cruz both because next year they're cutting Eli and replacing him with Nassib thereby freeing up mucho-dinero

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 08:43 AM
What if Randle got a chance and does very well this year? Now would they need to sign Nicks for big money?

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 08:56 AM
Why all the hostility folks? I know the lot of you are probably hung over from last night but cut the OP some slack. I disagree that it's set in stone that were losing Nicks but that's what the message board is for: discussion, debate and sharing of different views.

My only hostility, is the fact that this kid says something like this and then dissapears. I mean this dude is definitely a troll.

jomo
07-05-2013, 09:04 AM
I view it as a sign of great organizational strenght that we may not have enough money to go around to sign every single one of our best players. It means we draft well, develop our young talent well and eventually have to let one or two walk to make way for the next wave of talent.

The alternative which is much worse is that we have plenty of cap room because our players stink.

brad
07-05-2013, 09:04 AM
I don't think that signing Cruz will necessarily lead to losing Nicks, but it certainly opens up the possibility. I like Cruz, but he is not a #1 receiver, and his numbers clearly decline when Nicks is not on the field or is not playing at 100%. His skills require someone on the other side that can draw some attention. We saw last year just how inconsistent the offense can be without Nicks, sometimes they were surprisingly great, sometimes they were horrible.

There are a few scenarios that could play out...

1. Nicks has another injury plagued year. In this case his asking price would be lower, but do the Giants want to sign him at that point?

2. Nicks has a great year. In this case his asking price may be to high.

3. Randle could be an influence in this if he has a break out year, do you sign Nicks in this case or could Randle earn the #1 spot?

Personally, I think not signing Nicks to a long term deal now works in Nicks favor, his asking price can only go up from here. With other big names, like JPP who is a must sign, that price could go too high for the Giants to retain him. Depending on how desperate other teams are to get a #1 receiver, the sky is the limit on his asking price. The Giants will pay for a guy of his caliber, but they won't overpay... nor would I want them too.

jomo
07-05-2013, 09:08 AM
I don't think that signing Cruz will necessarily lead to losing Nicks, but it certainly opens up the possibility. I like Cruz, but he is not a #1 receiver, and his numbers clearly decline when Nicks is not on the field or is not playing at 100%. His skills require someone on the other side that can draw some attention. We saw last year just how inconsistent the offense can be without Nicks, sometimes they were surprisingly great, sometimes they were horrible.

There are a few scenarios that could play out...

1. Nicks has another injury plagued year. In this case his asking price would be lower, but do the Giants want to sign him at that point?

2. Nicks has a great year. In this case his asking price may be to high.

3. Randle could be an influence in this if he has a break out year, do you sign Nicks in this case or could Randle earn the #1 spot?

Personally, I think not signing Nicks to a long term deal now works in Nicks favor, his asking price can only go up from here. With other big names, like JPP who is a must sign, that price could go too high for the Giants to retain him. Depending on how desperate other teams are to get a #1 receiver, the sky is the limit on his asking price. The Giants will pay for a guy of his caliber, but they won't overpay... nor would I want them too.Or JPP could have another underwhelming season driving his value down. I agree with your basic point that there are too many moving pieces to assume anything.

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 09:24 AM
Or JPP could have another underwhelming season driving his value down. I agree with your basic point that there are too many moving pieces to assume anything.
I was just going to say that.... There was a post on here explaining how Javon Kearse had JPP like numbers until a back surgery derailed him.
The truth is, JPP had invasive back surgery. No matter how "light" they make it seem... IT IS BACK SURGERY, we need to see how he is going to perform OR if he is even going to be back to the way he used to play.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 09:36 AM
JPP was not bad last year at all.

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 09:40 AM
JPP was not bad last year at all.
Not bad BUT not good either..

Rudyy
07-05-2013, 09:50 AM
While it may be to early to say he won't be here next year it would not be surprising at all.Haha this.

Rudyy
07-05-2013, 09:52 AM
Nothing is "obvious". We have no idea if Randle will step up, or if Nicks can stay healthy.

Rudyy
07-05-2013, 09:53 AM
Not bad BUT not good either..Injured.

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 10:00 AM
Injured.
Injured, out-of-shape, tired, "tuck" mentality, bad coaching, etc.
He wasnt 100% last year. What i'm saying is that we dont know if he will be back to 100% especially afer a back surgery...

TCHOF
07-05-2013, 10:00 AM
I'm a huge Nicks fan, but I don't know about picking him over JPP.

It is much easier to find a WR like Nicks than to find a DE like JPP (assuming he gets back to 100% after his back surgery). So if it's a choice between the two, it has to be JPP . . .

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 10:00 AM
It is much easier to find a WR like Nicks than to find a DE like JPP (assuming he gets back to 100% after his back surgery). So if it's a choice between the two, it has to be JPP . . .
I agree with this! considering that Randle seems to have the tools to be "Nicks" like.

Rudyy
07-05-2013, 10:01 AM
Injured, out-of-shape, tired, "tuck" mentality, bad coaching, etc. He wasnt 100% last year. What i'm saying is that we dont know if he will be back to 100% especially afer a back surgery...Well I wasn't arguing THAT, just saying why he maybe didn't look loike 2011 JPP..

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 10:04 AM
Why did JPP have a bad year?

Stoneroses6300
07-05-2013, 10:09 AM
A post like this comes from fear. I have this fear of Nicks future too.
A post like this tries to fish for responses that will tell said poster otherwise to make them more at ease. The post should have just been called, "I hope we don't lose Nicks! Can someone here tell us some possible options for trying to keep him!?" This obviously sounds more childish/naive, but it's honest.

The GM in action style (panic style!) though is a little unnerving.

Just relax!

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 10:11 AM
Well I wasn't arguing THAT, just saying why he maybe didn't look loike 2011 JPP..
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/bbb/e89/44f/resized/hmmm-meme-generator-touche-882ef3.jpg?1325569002.jpg

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 10:12 AM
Why did JPP have a bad year?
He didnt. He didnt have a dominant year, either..

JesseJames
07-05-2013, 10:28 AM
Reese is one of the most highly regarded GMs in the NFL and keeping top tier players like Nicks is what he gets paid for, people should have a little more faith before they start jumping to conclusions...

egyptian420
07-05-2013, 10:35 AM
Reese is one of the most highly regarded GMs in the NFL and keeping top tier players like Nicks is what he gets paid for, people should have a little more faith before they start jumping to conclusions...+1...I think him and Nicks will spar for a 1-2 but we'll sign him. If he has a beast season however it might be tougher because a lot of terrible teams could easily overpay and offer him much more than we could.

Carter.525
07-05-2013, 10:38 AM
I would hope to keep both Nicks and JPP (obviously).. But I would pick JPP if only one with Randle waiting in the wings

JayMas9
07-05-2013, 10:45 AM
It's absolutely possible, it's a question of whether or not they want to do it. The cap will also be higher in the future.

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 10:48 AM
It's absolutely possible, it's a question of whether or not they want to do it. The cap will also be higher in the future.

That's also true. I almost forgot about that..

Rudyy
07-05-2013, 11:05 AM
Did gmenfan flee? Or...

Toadofsteel
07-05-2013, 11:17 AM
Absolutely MUST re-sign JPP. As for Nicks we have a bunch of good outside receivers that as long as we can keep a bunch around we can keep some of the pressure off Cruz.

I feel that Nicks would be a cap casualty in 2014 before JPP would. We're more stacked at outside WR than DE. Though knowing Reese, he'll find a way...

NYGabriel
07-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Thanks for the heads up OP. I was going to get a Nicks jersey but I think I'll go with a Ramses Barden one instead........... Unless you have some information about his situation as well?

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 11:26 AM
Did gmenfan flee? Or...

Just another grenade toss

giantscolombia
07-05-2013, 12:00 PM
^ haha would you say that these types of threads are about 80% of all NYMB posts?

TheAnalyst
07-05-2013, 12:12 PM
I have a weird feeling that the Redskins will make a play for Nicks next year. Also the Raiders.

jomo
07-05-2013, 12:14 PM
Just another grenade tossYep

Imgrate
07-05-2013, 12:17 PM
Seems kinda redudant calling hakeem nicks fair and well.

Ohhh you meant fare well.

ryan12
07-05-2013, 12:23 PM
we have money coming off the books and the cap # will b e higher next year. my guess we resign jpp and if nicks stays healthy and has a good year we will sign him as well

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 12:32 PM
I have a weird feeling that the Redskins will make a play for Nicks next year. Also the Raiders.

Free agency has it's downside. Still, if Reese thinks it's a good strategic move, they can apply the exclusive rights franchise tag to Nicks, which removes other teams from the process, while they negotiate a long term deal.

BigBlue wins
07-05-2013, 12:36 PM
Seems kinda redudant calling hakeem nicks fair and well.

Ohhh you meant fare well.

I hope he is fair and well...unless it might as well be fare well ;)

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 12:44 PM
I hope he is fair and well...unless it might as well be fare well ;)

Certainly not welfare

Duckdownman
07-05-2013, 02:11 PM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.

Why? We don't even have a contract for Cruz to see what the numbers are? Also consider the front office is very much well aware of the problems on signing both players, which is precisely why the Cruz contract is as much about him as it is about Nicks. The way negotiations went it appears Reese and company are in a good position to keep them both.
If we caved in to the demands Cruz originally asked for maybe this would be an issue, but we didn't, so it's not.

Antwuan
07-05-2013, 02:16 PM
Im a Nicks Fan, I really hope the Giants keep him.

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 02:17 PM
Im a Nicks Fan, I really hope the Giants keep him.

Don't we all

jomo
07-05-2013, 02:22 PM
Certainly not welfareThe season will be here soon enough.......:)

Antwuan
07-05-2013, 02:23 PM
Don't we all

Yes!

Rat_bastich
07-05-2013, 03:59 PM
I would like to once again quote John Denver "Sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy, Sunshine in my eyes can make me cry, Sunshine on the water looks so lovely, Sunshine almost always makes me high".

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 04:29 PM
Is it supposed to be fair well or farewell?

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 04:41 PM
The season will be here soon enough.......:)

Man, I sure hope so lol

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 04:42 PM
Is it supposed to be fair well or farewell?

Farewell = good bye

FishinTheSalt
07-05-2013, 04:53 PM
I didnt fair well on the golf course today.

egyptian420
07-05-2013, 05:49 PM
I would like to once again quote John Denver "Sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy, Sunshine in my eyes can make me cry, Sunshine on the water looks so lovely, Sunshine almost always makes me high".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cp4banCknc

Imgrate
07-05-2013, 06:15 PM
I started a trend

Dabluguy
07-05-2013, 06:33 PM
We'll sign him np. Maybe not him and JPP, but I'd much rather keep Nicks.

As much as I like Nicks there is no way in any way shape or form the Giants should prioritize Nicks over Jpp. JPP is our best defensive player and prolly one of the best in the league. Nicks is a great WR but is injury prone.

Delicreep
07-05-2013, 06:48 PM
I have said on many, many occasions that the whole "cap math" is just baffling to me, but won't we be in a position to extend some key players to lesson cap numbers so we can actually afford Hakeem?

This is an actual question, not a wise *** comment.

gmen0820
07-05-2013, 06:52 PM
I have said on many, many occasions that the whole "cap math" is just baffling to me, but won't we be in a position to extend some key players to lesson cap numbers so we can actually afford Hakeem?

This is an actual question, not a wise *** comment.In the short term, possibly. Depends on the contract.

For example, Nicks' cap hit is roughly 4 mil right now. Tampa's Vincent Jackson got a 60 million dollar deal last year, and his cap hit this year is less than 3.5 million. Last year, and in every ensuing year, it'll be over 12 million, but you get the point: you can be very flexible with these deals to finagle the cap.

RoanokeFan
07-05-2013, 07:25 PM
I have said on many, many occasions that the whole "cap math" is just baffling to me, but won't we be in a position to extend some key players to lesson cap numbers so we can actually afford Hakeem?

This is an actual question, not a wise *** comment.

Yes, that's a possibility but we have fewer players who will be under contract after this season which just provides more available CAP space than we have now.

bigblue58
07-05-2013, 09:49 PM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.

The Giants have the advantage again because they have 2013 to see if he can stay healthy, and if he can't, it will be a moot point as he won't be worth re-signing.

Buddy333
07-05-2013, 10:11 PM
Yes, that's a possibility but we have fewer players who will be under contract after this season which just provides more available CAP space than we have now.Don't know how accurate it was but someone posted that they might have a LOT of cap space next year.

miked1958
07-05-2013, 11:00 PM
Since reports are that cruz is going to get signed, ,it's fairly obvious we can't resign Nicks. It's impossible to keep them both with the cap. I think Randle can be his replacement though, but it sucks that this is Nicks' last season as a Giant.you do realize that with the signing of Cruz forthcoming they won't have to worry about him next offseason. So therefore if they need to the giants can slap the Franchise Tag on Nicks next Season.

giantsfan420
07-05-2013, 11:12 PM
As much as I like Nicks there is no way in any way shape or form the Giants should prioritize Nicks over Jpp. JPP is our best defensive player and prolly one of the best in the league. Nicks is a great WR but is injury prone.i agreed with this right up until the news of JPP having back surgery...

tonyt830
07-05-2013, 11:34 PM
Nicks staying healthy for 16 games this season will go a long way in determining what kind of contract he will get. I would hate to pick Nicks over JPP or vice versa, but who knows, from what other posters mention, the salary cap number should be a little more friendly for the Giants next season.

But the JPP back surgery does concern me. I hope he recovers fully and is in a Giants uni in 2014 as well.

giantsfan420
07-06-2013, 12:38 AM
nice post tonyt. the thing is, if nicks goes a full 16 games, i'd almost feel like the odds would go up that he wouldnt make it thru all 16 the next season.

with how his career has been thus far, missing a couple games every year iirc, if he goes 16, i dont think it'd suddenly rest Jr and Cos mind assured that he's going to be this guy who plays 16 games year in year out. i think its more important than nicks not have any lingering type injury that effects his play longer than a game or two should he need to miss them. thats what was so ****ty about 2012 for nicks, he had the injury, but its lingering effects altered his play all yr for the most part.

BurnerNYG
07-06-2013, 01:01 AM
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I would much rather keep the more durable Cruz around than the often injured Hakeem Nicks. Don't get me wrong I love Nicks, he's a great physical receiver with huge hands but he has yet to play a full season. Cruz is an explosive player and if you think he can't be a number one you're sadly mistaken. There was only one other rookie receiver in the history of the NFL that caught four TD's in a preseason game and his name is TO. I knew Cruz was special since then. Nicks although a good sometimes great receiver can easily be replaced. That's just my opinion.

titwio
07-06-2013, 01:01 AM
Eli will extend his deal sometime before Nicks' contract is up, thereby creating enough room to keep Nicks, and possibly JPP as well

Mark it down

I just started reading this thread and so far this is my favorite response.

tonyt830
07-06-2013, 01:08 AM
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I would much rather keep the more durable Cruz around than the often injured Hakeem Nicks. Don't get me wrong I love Nicks, he's a great physical receiver with huge hands but he has yet to play a full season. Cruz is an explosive player and if you think he can't be a number one you're sadly mistaken. There was only one other rookie receiver in the history of the NFL that caught four TD's in a preseason game and his name is TO. I knew Cruz was special since then. Nicks although a good sometimes great receiver can easily be replaced. That's just my opinion.I guess along with Nick's health(playing a full season), we will have to see how productive and consistent Randle can be as a possible starter at WR.

RoanokeFan
07-06-2013, 09:00 AM
I guess along with Nick's health(playing a full season), we will have to see how productive and consistent Randle can be as a possible starter at WR.

I think Randle might become leverage in Nicks' negotiations. If Randle has a productive season, Reese could use that to try to limit Nicks' value here. That, of course, won't limit Nicks' value somewhere else. So if Nicks has a healthy, productive season and Reese wants to keep him long term he would be wise to eliminate other teams from making offers to Nicks. To do that, Reese have to apply the exclusive rights franchise tag which Nicks might buy as a stepping stone to a long term deal being hammered out.

FBomb
07-06-2013, 10:45 AM
Did gmenfan flee? Or...

gmenfan flew.......but who knew?

Rudyy
07-06-2013, 10:46 AM
gmenfan flew.......but who knew?Dr. Suess up in here.

FBomb
07-06-2013, 10:52 AM
Dr. Suess up in here.

lol.....no, but funny nonetheless.

Some of us "older" Giants fans will get the reference.

miked1958
07-06-2013, 10:58 AM
I think Randle might become leverage in Nicks' negotiations. If Randle has a productive season, Reese could use that to try to limit Nicks' value here. That, of course, won't limit Nicks' value somewhere else. So if Nicks has a healthy, productive season and Reese wants to keep him long term he would be wise to eliminate other teams from making offers to Nicks. To do that, Reese have to apply the exclusive rights franchise tag which Nicks might buy as a stepping stone to a long term deal being hammered out.thats what I was saying earlier in the thread, that with Cruz being locked up long term they can now turn their attention to nicks and us the FT on him if need be next offseason

miked1958
07-06-2013, 10:59 AM
So that would pretty much guarantee we have them both for at least the next two seasons for sure

gumby74
07-06-2013, 11:28 AM
1) Depends on Randle
2) Depends on how far away we are from the SB. If we miss the post season again, I don't see Nicks returning. We can use that money elsewhere to sure up the other holes on our team.

B&RWarrior
07-06-2013, 11:15 PM
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I would much rather keep the more durable Cruz around than the often injured Hakeem Nicks. Don't get me wrong I love Nicks, he's a great physical receiver with huge hands but he has yet to play a full season. Cruz is an explosive player and if you think he can't be a number one you're sadly mistaken. There was only one other rookie receiver in the history of the NFL that caught four TD's in a preseason game and his name is TO. I knew Cruz was special since then. Nicks although a good sometimes great receiver can easily be replaced. That's just my opinion.

Wow! This is the second TO comparison to a Giants WR this week. In the name of GMB credibility let there be no more.

Seriously Cruz has not proven he can handle being the man. The fact that he let Carr shut him down in the season opener has me worried.

speedman
07-07-2013, 09:30 AM
Wow! This is the second TO comparison to a Giants WR this week. In the name of GMB credibility let there be no more. Seriously Cruz has not proven he can handle being the man. The fact that he let Carr shut him down in the season opener has me worried. Nicks is the best receiver we have.

Rudyy
07-07-2013, 09:39 AM
Nicks is the best receiver we have.+1

BuffyBlueII
07-07-2013, 10:52 AM
It is a weird debate, that is for sure because I don't think it is even close. Hakeem Nicks is The Best reciever on NY Giants.

fizzlesticks
07-07-2013, 11:00 AM
+1
-1

jomo
07-07-2013, 11:02 AM
An oil company puts a new hole in the ground and that hole delivers slightly below average amount of crude oil.

Isn't that a "fair well?" :)

fizzlesticks
07-07-2013, 11:05 AM
An oil company puts a new hole in the ground and that hole delivers slightly below average amount of crude oil.

Isn't that a "fair well?" :)

I believe that would be a weak well, fair == average.

Rudyy
07-07-2013, 11:12 AM
-1= 0 + 1 = 1.

jomo
07-07-2013, 11:19 AM
= 0 + 1 = 1.I give the nod to Nicks as well but remember this...........at their best, they are the 2 best receivers the Giants have ever had...............and #3 may not be close when their careers are over.

Rudyy
07-07-2013, 11:48 AM
I give the nod to Nicks as well but remember this...........at their best, they are the 2 best receivers the Giants have ever had...............and #3 may not be close when their careers are over.Correct.

I just think that Nicks' injuries don't make him any less of a receiver, if that makes sense. In terms of playing the position, Nicks IMO is the best.

fizzlesticks
07-07-2013, 11:52 AM
Correct.

I just think that Nicks' injuries don't make him any less of a receiver, if that makes sense. In terms of playing the position, Nicks IMO is the best.

But injuries are part of the game, it doesn't matter if he's Jerry Rice 2.0 if he only plays 13 games a year and in those he can barely walk.

Rudyy
07-07-2013, 12:23 PM
But injuries are part of the game, it doesn't matter if he's Jerry Rice 2.0 if he only plays 13 games a year and in those he can barely walk.I never said they weren't.

BuffyBlueII
07-07-2013, 12:35 PM
But injuries are part of the game, it doesn't matter if he's Jerry Rice 2.0 if he only plays 13 games a year and in those he can barely walk.

Huge drops and shortarming the ball are also part of the game and Victor Cruz made some costly ones in both areas last season.

jomo
07-07-2013, 12:35 PM
Correct.

I just think that Nicks' injuries don't make him any less of a receiver, if that makes sense. In terms of playing the position, Nicks IMO is the best.I agree. In some respects dealing with and playing through the injuries make him more of a warrior. If you saw the play he got injured on during last season after which he kept on playing, he elevated himself in my eyes.

speedman
07-07-2013, 12:39 PM
But injuries are part of the game, it doesn't matter if he's Jerry Rice 2.0 if he only plays 13 games a year and in those he can barely walk. Have to blame that on the coaches. They should have kept him out when he wasn't healthy.

GameTime
07-07-2013, 12:41 PM
Have to blame that on the coaches. They should have kept him out when he wasn't healthy.
Blame the docs and the player too while you're at it....

speedman
07-07-2013, 12:47 PM
Blame the docs and the player too while you're at it....The player wants to play. The doctors clear him to play. The coaches should have seen that he wasn't effective.

B&RWarrior
07-07-2013, 12:52 PM
Aikman commented it was the kind of injury that wouldn't heal all the way until the season was over- that was in the Tampa game. I think Nicks and the coaches knew that and Nicks decided to play through the injury. I think he knew his foot would be bad all year, but he didn't expect his knee to go bad as well.

RoanokeFan
07-07-2013, 05:42 PM
An oil company puts a new hole in the ground and that hole delivers slightly below average amount of crude oil.

Isn't that a "fair well?" :)

That's a ****ing bonanza :rolleyes:

Moke
07-07-2013, 05:47 PM
I think it's unfathomable that Nicks doesn't get signed.

NYG in NE
07-07-2013, 06:56 PM
I'm not sweating it. The front office knows this and is working a deal with Cruz that will allow them to resign Nicks also. These guys think years ahead, not just season to season.

ShineOnForever
07-07-2013, 07:15 PM
Giants will have alot of room to keep the core in tact after the 2013 season. That includes Cruz, jpp, and nicks. The giants are looking at having anywhere from 25 mill to 40 mill in cap room depending on cuts and/or restructures.

giantsfan420
07-07-2013, 09:18 PM
the reason there was such importance on signing cruz long term this offseason was bc of nicks really, not cruz. if we hadnt resigned cruz, next offseason, we wouldnt be able to keep both.
by gettin cruz locked up this offseason, we can get nicks done either before the end of this season, or the offseason. we are in great shape towards keeping nicks imho.

par404
07-07-2013, 10:45 PM
If the Giants have a disastrous season. There will be many casualties and enough of cap room.

ELI_HOF_NYG
07-07-2013, 10:48 PM
the reason there was such importance on signing cruz long term this offseason was bc of nicks really, not cruz. if we hadnt resigned cruz, next offseason, we wouldnt be able to keep both.
by gettin cruz locked up this offseason, we can get nicks done either before the end of this season, or the offseason. we are in great shape towards keeping nicks imho. that depends on what he is looking for. If he is viewing himself as a true number one he is as good as gone. although good he has to prove he can stay healthy and be relied on. if he does that we still loose him because there are just too many needs to pay another receiver big money when they have randle and the draft.

Rudyy
07-07-2013, 10:51 PM
that depends on what he is looking for. If he is viewing himself as a true number one he is as good as gone. although good he has to prove he can stay healthy and be relied on. if he does that we still loose him because there are just too many needs to pay another receiver big money when they have randle and the draft.What if Randle doesn't pan out? Do we still not sign Nicks and hope for the best in the draft?

giantsfan420
07-08-2013, 12:46 AM
if we werent gonna let cruz get away, 0 chance imho we let nicks get away.

when healthy nicks is a better wr than cruz no ifs ands or buts. not a knock on cruz,when nicks is healthy hes better than just about every wr. that 2011 playoff run was unreal.

BuffyBlueII
07-08-2013, 02:00 AM
if we werent gonna let cruz get away, 0 chance imho we let nicks get away.

when healthy nicks is a better wr than cruz no ifs ands or buts. not a knock on cruz,when nicks is healthy hes better than just about every wr. that 2011 playoff run was unreal.

+1

Rat_bastich
07-08-2013, 06:00 AM
if we werent gonna let cruz get away, 0 chance imho we let nicks get away.

when healthy nicks is a better wr than cruz no ifs ands or buts. not a knock on cruz,when nicks is healthy hes better than just about every wr. that 2011 playoff run was unreal.

I expect the Giants, once they finish with Cruz, to turn their full attention to Nicks. Hopefully they can get him locked up before he decides to test the free agent market. It would be in the Giants' best interest to get something done quick. It would be, financially, in Nicks' best interest to probably wait.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 06:08 AM
Correct.

I just think that Nicks' injuries don't make him any less of a receiver, if that makes sense. In terms of playing the position, Nicks IMO is the best.

I understand what you are saying, but wasn't Nicks less of a receiver because of his injuries last season? If not, why were his numbers so far below what is expected of him? Maybe "less of a receiver" isn't the right phrase, but because of his injuries in 2012 his production ceretainly suffered.

Rat_bastich
07-08-2013, 06:23 AM
I understand what you are saying, but wasn't Nicks less of a receiver because of his injuries last season? If not, why were his numbers so far below what is expected of him? Maybe "less of a receiver" isn't the right phrase, but because of his injuries in 2012 his production ceretainly suffered.

I think last year was the longest he has been out in a season, besides his rookie year. Hopefully it was just an off year for him.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 06:32 AM
I think last year was the longest he has been out in a season, besides his rookie year. Hopefully it was just an off year for him.

Let's hope he bounces back strong.

fansince69
07-08-2013, 08:30 AM
I understand what you are saying, but wasn't Nicks less of a receiver because of his injuries last season? If not, why were his numbers so far below what is expected of him? Maybe "less of a receiver" isn't the right phrase, but because of his injuries in 2012 his production ceretainly suffered.and cruz showed me that without Nicks on the field and healthy ...he is not quite the same receiver either

giantscolombia
07-08-2013, 08:58 AM
Wow! This is the second TO comparison to a Giants WR this week. In the name of GMB credibility let there be no more.

Seriously Cruz has not proven he can handle being the man. The fact that he let Carr shut him down in the season opener has me worried.

The other comparison to T.O was just foolish... I think at one point that OP said that he meant to compare the way they celebrated, not their style of play hahaha...smh.

giantscolombia
07-08-2013, 09:00 AM
If the Giants have a disastrous season. There will be many casualties and enough of cap room.
I hope you are right. Hopefully we win the superbowl though... but that alone will inflate what some players will demand, contract wise.

giantscolombia
07-08-2013, 09:14 AM
I think it's unfathomable that Nicks doesn't get signed.
Even if he has another injury plagued season and he is demanding a huge contract?

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 09:18 AM
I understand what you are saying, but wasn't Nicks less of a receiver because of his injuries last season? If not, why were his numbers so far below what is expected of him? Maybe "less of a receiver" isn't the right phrase, but because of his injuries in 2012 his production ceretainly suffered.His production suffered greatly, but that shouldn't mean he's not a good or even great receiver now. JPP's production last year drop tremendously in terms of sacks, but he is still a great defensive end.

TuckandRolle
07-08-2013, 09:21 AM
I have a feeling Nicks will end up with Panthers.

1. His hometown area
2. Steve Smith aging
3. More cap space
4. Ex Giant as GM now (forget his name Gettleman?)

Completely agree, I have a feeling he will be a Panther if we don't franchise him next year, which we very well may.

fizzlesticks
07-08-2013, 09:21 AM
JPP's production last year drop tremendously in terms of sacks, but he is still a great defensive end.
Is he? He's 1/3 on good seasons right now.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 09:23 AM
Is he? He's 1/3 on good seasons right now.Hell yes he is, his back problems are unfortunate, but that doesn't mean he's automatically not good anymore.

speedman
07-08-2013, 09:35 AM
I understand what you are saying, but wasn't Nicks less of a receiver because of his injuries last season? If not, why were his numbers so far below what is expected of him? Maybe "less of a receiver" isn't the right phrase, but because of his injuries in 2012 his production ceretainly suffered.That's true of all players, injuries make their production suffer.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 09:54 AM
His production suffered greatly, but that shouldn't mean he's not a good or even great receiver now. JPP's production last year drop tremendously in terms of sacks, but he is still a great defensive end.

Do we actually know that or is that a hope we all share? Nicks hasn't played since his injuries and JPP has had recent back surgery and we don't yet know how their recoveries have gone and whether there are any lingering issues. At what point in time does a great player simply cease being great? Is it an emotional question or a statistical question?

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 09:55 AM
That's true of all players, injuries make their production suffer.

I agree, so if a great player can no longer perform at the level that established greatness, is he still a great player?

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 09:57 AM
Do we actually know that or is that a hope we all share? Nicks hasn't played sicne his injuries and JPP has had recent back surgery and we don't yet know how their recoveries have gone and whether there are any lingering issues. At what point in time does a great player simply cease being great? Is it an emotional question or a statistical question?I'm going by what I see. Nicks is great to me because of the way he plays. Physical, with great hands. If you are judging him by production, then he isn't great by any means. I'm judging him by what I have seen from him on the field of play.

speedman
07-08-2013, 09:59 AM
Do we actually know that or is that a hope we all share? Nicks hasn't played sicne his injuries and JPP has had recent back surgery and we don't yet know how their recoveries have gone and whether there are any lingering issues. At what point in time does a great player simply cease being great? Is it an emotional question or a statistical question?They cease being great when they don't have it anymore, not because they were injured last year.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:04 AM
and cruz showed me that without Nicks on the field and healthy ...he is not quite the same receiver either

Not being the same receiver while still being the most productive receiver is one thing, not replicating the performances we all remember and hope return is something else.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:06 AM
They cease being great when they don't have it anymore, not because they were injured last year.

Agreed, so if Nicks has another sub par season is that an indication that he doesn't have it anymore? I hope he sets the field on fire and we resign him to a long term deal. But he does have to do that.

giantscolombia
07-08-2013, 10:07 AM
They cease being great when they don't have it anymore, not because they were injured last year.
Injury can totally derail a career dude. A player can definitely "cease" being great because of injury...

giantsfan420
07-08-2013, 10:07 AM
The other comparison to T.O was just foolish... I think at one point that OP said that he meant to compare the way they celebrated, not their style of play hahaha...smh.b n r said the same exact thing i did, just swap kuhn for murphy, and SF Justin Smith for TO.

not their celebration but that was part of it. murphy was used primarily on slants (as to try and set him up for YAC) and on go routes out of the slot. that was how TO was used early in his career at SF. Murphy reminded me of TO with some of his highlight plays, get over it.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:08 AM
I'm going by what I see. Nicks is great to me because of the way he plays. Physical, with great hands. If you are judging him by production, then he isn't great by any means. I'm judging him by what I have seen from him on the field of play.

And there lies the separation, I do put a lot of stock in a player's production, no matter who it is.

giantsfan420
07-08-2013, 10:13 AM
I'm going by what I see. Nicks is great to me because of the way he plays. Physical, with great hands. If you are judging him by production, then he isn't great by any means. I'm judging him by what I have seen from him on the field of play.his production in the 2011 post season was 2nd all time right behind Fitz iirc...his prodiction is top notch as well as long as hes healthy.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:13 AM
And there lies the separation, I do put a lot of stock in a player's production, no matter who it is.That's fine. It's correct to say that Cruz has been the more productive receiver. The difference is that doesn't mean he's better at the position itself.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:14 AM
his production in the 2011 post season was 2nd all time right behind Fitz iirc...his prodiction is top notch as well as long as hes healthy.Well, this past season. As a career there's no debate that Nicks is better than Cruz.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:17 AM
That's fine. It's correct to say that Cruz has been the more productive receiver. The difference is that doesn't mean he's better at the position itself.

And that's where I take the path less traveled lol

speedman
07-08-2013, 12:06 PM
Agreed, so if Nicks has another sub par season is that an indication that he doesn't have it anymore? I hope he sets the field on fire and we resign him to a long term deal. But he does have to do that.Only if it's not caused by injury.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 12:08 PM
Only if it's not caused by injury.

So if Nicks continues to miss games for the next four years with his productivity reflecting his missed time, he's still great?

TheAnalyst
07-08-2013, 12:13 PM
Well, this past season. As a career there's no debate that Nicks is better than Cruz.

4 years 3726 yards 255 catches for Nicks 27TDs
2 years 2628 yards 168 catches for Cruz 19TDs

speedman
07-08-2013, 12:14 PM
So if Nicks continues to miss games for the next four years with his productivity reflects his missed time, he's still great?You're looking at one down year which was caused by injury. Is Brady not a great QB because he missed one year due to injury?

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 12:17 PM
You're looking at one down year which was caused by injury. Is Brady not a great QB because he missed one year due to injury?

Actually, I'm looking at a player who has yet to play a full season due to injuries. And I'm hoping this is the season he breaks that trend. We also have another receiver who for the two full season he's played has been the most productive receiver on the team.

Nicks is going to have to stay healthy and produce great numbers while hoping Randle doesn't make a spalsh.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 12:37 PM
4 years 3726 yards 255 catches for Nicks 27TDs2 years 2628 yards 168 catches for Cruz 19TDsRight, so Nicks is still better haha.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 12:47 PM
Actually, I'm looking at a player who has yet to play a full season due to injuries. And I'm hoping this is the season he breaks that trend. We also have another receiver who for the two full season he's played has been the most productive receiver on the team.

Nicks is going to have to stay healthy and produce great numbers while hoping Randle doesn't make a spalsh.

I have high hopes for Randle. It would save us a boat load of money.

speedman
07-08-2013, 01:20 PM
4 years 3726 yards 255 catches for Nicks 27TDs2 years 2628 yards 168 catches for Cruz 19TDsYou're counting last year for Nicks, when he was hurt the whole year and still played but not counting Cruz year on ir.

speedman
07-08-2013, 01:22 PM
I have high hopes for Randle. It would save us a boat load of money.Do you really think Randle can be better than Nicks?

Ruttiger711
07-08-2013, 01:25 PM
Do you really think Randle can be better than Nicks?

I don't get the optimism. No different than hoping for Barden to be as good as Plax imo.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 01:25 PM
Do you really think Randle can be better than Nicks? No, but he might be an adequate replacement. Potential 10+ million contract vs rookie contract. Rookie contract of an adequate replacement + the possibilities of adding a combination of players totaling 10 million > Nicks.

speedman
07-08-2013, 01:26 PM
Actually, I'm looking at a player who has yet to play a full season due to injuries. And I'm hoping this is the season he breaks that trend. We also have another receiver who for the two full season he's played has been the most productive receiver on the team.Nicks is going to have to stay healthy and produce great numbers while hoping Randle doesn't make a spalsh.Are you forgetting about the year Cruz was on ir?

gumby74
07-08-2013, 01:26 PM
I don't get the optimism. No different than hoping for Barden to be as good as Plax imo. He showed flashes. Just like David Wilson showed flashes.

speedman
07-08-2013, 01:31 PM
He showed flashes. Just like David Wilson showed flashes.Major mistake if they try to replace Nicks with Randle or anyone else on the team.

giantscolombia
07-08-2013, 01:40 PM
Well, it looks like Nicks is going to get the tag..

gumby74
07-08-2013, 01:46 PM
Major mistake if they try to replace Nicks with Randle or anyone else on the team. Major mistake if we have 3 guys tying up 40 million our cap space. And if we re-sign JPP, that might soon be 50+ million for 4. This isn't Madden.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 01:49 PM
Don't want to see him walk, but they did draft Randle last year. He is supposed to be a similar player only bigger. If he has a good year and they have other guys looking to cash in it would not be a surprise to see him go.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 02:19 PM
Are you forgetting about the year Cruz was on ir?

Not at all and if you remember, it was a BS situation as they had to trim the roster to take on an emergency kicker and Cruz was picked. He was picked for IR becuse the FO didn't dare put him on the practice squad as he'd never have cleared waivers.

His first year was a waste. Again, Nicks hasn't played a full season yet.

The point of all of this is Nicks has to play a full season with Nicks like numbers while hoping Randle doesn't make headway at his heels. Not because Randle is better than Nicks, although that could happen in time, but because those three things will largely determine the amount of leverage the Giants have in working out Nicks' contract.

repeatchamps
07-08-2013, 02:25 PM
I don't get the optimism. No different than hoping for Barden to be as good as Plax imo.

That's ridiculous. Randle is a 2nd year WR drafted in the 2nd round. Barden was a later round pick from a small school that was always a project and still is after 3 full seasons. Randle will be pushed to be a major part of the offense if he continues to show good progress. He's virtually a lock for the #3 WR spot this season with Hixon now gone. I'd argue Hixon was only let go because they felt Randle was ready to fill his shoes. If you can't see a difference based on this between Randle and Barden then you are not paying close enough attention.

speedman
07-08-2013, 02:30 PM
Not at all and if you remember, it was a BS situation as they had to trim the roster to take on an emergency kicker and Cruz was picked. He was picked for IR becuse the FO didn't dare put him on the practice squad as he'd never have cleared waivers. His first year was a waste. Again, Nicks hasn't played a full season yet. The point of all of this is Nicks has to play a full season with Nicks like numbers while hoping Randle doesn't make headway at his heels. Not because Randle is better than Nicks, although that could happen in time, but because those three things will largely determine the amount of leverage the Giants have in working out Nicks' contract.I understand the ir thing. I brought it up because a year was included for Nicks when he was injured all year. The coaches left Nicks out there all year even though he was injured. Kind of makes you think that they feel Randle isn't on Nicks level.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 02:33 PM
I understand the ir thing. I brought it up because a year was included for Nicks when he was injured all year. The coaches left Nicks out there all year even though he was injured. Kind of makes you think that they feel Randle isn't on Nicks level.

There is no question Randle isn't on Nicks' level. I am suggesting that if Randle continues to develop to include the public praises of Gilbride and others, he si going to get a lot of opportunities to see what he can do. THAT, could be used by Reese in Nick's negotiations as leverage.

nhpgiantsfan
07-08-2013, 02:34 PM
Not at all and if you remember, it was a BS situation as they had to trim the roster to take on an emergency kicker and Cruz was picked. He was picked for IR becuse the FO didn't dare put him on the practice squad as he'd never have cleared waivers.

His first year was a waste. Again, Nicks hasn't played a full season yet.

The point of all of this is Nicks has to play a full season with Nicks like numbers while hoping Randle doesn't make headway at his heels. Not because Randle is better than Nicks, although that could happen in time, but because those three things will largely determine the amount of leverage the Giants have in working out Nicks' contract.

It is just your opinion that he has to play a full season. It's pretty safe to say that if Nicks has a 2013 that mirrored his 2011 along with a similar playoff performance, he be in line for a big deal from the Giants. Missing a game or two but still having a very strong season, won't make Nicks a cast off at the end of the season.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 02:40 PM
It is just your opinion that he has to play a full season. It's pretty safe to say that if Nicks has a 2013 that mirrored his 2011 along with a similar playoff performance, he be in line for a big deal from the Giants. Missing a game or two but still having a very strong season, won't make Nicks a cast off at the end of the season.

I have never suggested he would be a castoff in any sense and yes, what I write is my opinion. He could miss games and put up great numbers and Reese will still use the missed games as leverage in the negotiations.

You can bet Reese used Cruz's drops in those negotiations. That's all I'm saying. I have never denigrated Nicks as a player, I am focusing on contract strategy.

Ruttiger711
07-08-2013, 03:07 PM
That's ridiculous. Randle is a 2nd year WR drafted in the 2nd round. Barden was a later round pick from a small school that was always a project and still is after 3 full seasons. Randle will be pushed to be a major part of the offense if he continues to show good progress. He's virtually a lock for the #3 WR spot this season with Hixon now gone. I'd argue Hixon was only let go because they felt Randle was ready to fill his shoes. If you can't see a difference based on this between Randle and Barden then you are not paying close enough attention.

What I'm paying close enough attention to is what he ACTUALLY accomplished - which in terms of being as good as or better than Nicks, he hasn't shown it.

I'm not looking for an "adequate" replacement for our #1, with adequate only - Cruz's #s go down as well, no thanks. I've said we should be realistically expecting Randle to be a solid #3.

repeatchamps
07-08-2013, 03:12 PM
What I'm paying close enough attention to is what he ACTUALLY accomplished - which in terms of being as good as or better than Nicks, he hasn't shown it.

I'm not looking for an "adequate" replacement for our #1, with adequate only - Cruz's #s go down as well, no thanks. I've said we should be realistically expecting Randle to be a solid #3.

Yes for now I can see your point when it comes to Nicks but you actually were comparing Randle to Barden and Randle in one season accomplished more than Barden has done his entire career as far as strides towards becoming a solid NFL WR. This will be a telling season for Randle and Nicks. Randle will be locked in at the #3 spot and Nicks is now healthy. We will get a fair point of reference this year on what type of contract the Giants will offer to Nicks based on Nicks' performance and how Randle progresses.

dakotajoe
07-08-2013, 03:18 PM
From what I've seen of Randle he has the potential to be a solid #1.

I know the following is nearly irrelevant now but out of high school he was the #1 rated receiver and the #2 overall recruit. The talent is there. He's surehanded and played very well when called upon last year.

King Sully
07-08-2013, 04:23 PM
That's ridiculous. Randle is a 2nd year WR drafted in the 2nd round. Barden was a later round pick from a small school that was always a project and still is after 3 full seasons. Randle will be pushed to be a major part of the offense if he continues to show good progress. He's virtually a lock for the #3 WR spot this season with Hixon now gone. I'd argue Hixon was only let go because they felt Randle was ready to fill his shoes. If you can't see a difference based on this between Randle and Barden then you are not paying close enough attention. Barden was actually drafted in the 3rd round

repeatchamps
07-08-2013, 04:28 PM
Barden was actually drafted in the 3rd round

You are correct, my bad, but the Giants admittedly said they reached there as they knew he'd be a project. They thought Randle was 1st round talent that fell obsecenely too far and were overjoyed he was still available to be picked by the Giants. Regardless, from what I have scene after one rookie season, Randle is already a more polished WR than Barden is right now after three seasons.

ShineOnForever
07-08-2013, 04:45 PM
yea comparing randle and barden is ridiculous. randle was the #1 WR coming out of highschool and had his choice of which big time school he was going to. he chose an awesome one that happened to have a disasterous QB situation. barden went to cal-poly. Randle is a nicks clone in regards to size and skill set. He's actually an inch taller and the giants considered taking him in the first round but took Wilson instead. I think randle has a chance to be a beast. If nicks cant stay healthy I think its a no-brainer to let him walk