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View Full Version : Giants' Roster Breakdown: Eli Manning



RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 06:58 AM
http://www.bigblueview.com/2013/7/7/...wn-eli-manning
(http://www.bigblueview.com/2013/7/7/4496484/new-york-giants-roster-breakdown-eli-manning)

Excerpt: "We have arrived at a very special, important place in our player-by-player breakdown of the 90-man roster the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants) will bring to training camp at the Timex Performance Center later this month. Today we discuss quarterback Eli Manning (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2235/eli-manning), the most important of all Giants.

2012 Season In Review

Not Manning's best work, that is the simplest way to put it. His touchdown and interception numbers were roughly the same as they were in 2011, 29 TDs and 16 INTs in 2011 to 26 and 15 in 2012. His total yardage dropped by nearly 1,000 yards, however, his passing yards per game went from a career-best 308.3 to 246.8, his lowest average since 2008. There were four games where his quarterback rating dipped below 60.0, two of those below 50.0 with his worst game being a 13-for-25, two interception stinker with a passer rating of a putrid 38.9. His rating for the season was a pedestrian 87.2. His completion percentage (59.9 percent) was his first season below 60 percent since 2007.

After a season in which he led the Giants to the second Super Bowl (http://www.sbnation.com/super-bowl) title of his career, he performed in a way that once again had some people wondering exactly what to make of Manning.Some of the issues can be explained by the injury-plagued season suffered by Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks), and the season-long effort by the Giants to find a consistent replacement for Mario Manningham (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34493/mario-manningham).

The off-target throws and stubborn decisions, like throwing an ill-fated pass to Ramses Barden (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71289/ramses-barden) that backfired in an early-season loss to the Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/philadelphia-eagles), or foolishly challenging Asante Samuel (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1698/asante-samuel) of the Atlanta Falcons (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/atlanta-falcons) and getting picked off, setting the tone for a brutal 34-0 loss, are purely on Manning.There were ups and downs like the three-week midseason stretch without a touchdown pass, a four-touchdown game against the New Orleans Saints (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-orleans-saints) and a five-touchdown effort in the season finale against the Eagles." Read more...

Toadofsteel
07-08-2013, 07:00 AM
What the Giants -- and their fans -- would really like to see is 2013 be the beginning of a three- or four-year run where 'Bad Eli' gets shoveled so deep under some Meadowlands dirt that you forget he even exists.

AMEN

fansince69
07-08-2013, 08:27 AM
I honestly think those numbers point out just how important Nicks is in this offense.....Him not being on the field has a trickle down effect

gumby74
07-08-2013, 08:38 AM
If we're to get back into the playoffs, good Eli has to show up more often than last year. Anytime your QB rating dips below 50, chances are, you're hurting your team.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 08:58 AM
If we're to get back into the playoffs, good Eli has to show up more often than last year. Anytime your QB rating dips below 50, chances are, you're hurting your team.
goes for the rest of the team too....
but it mostly hinges on Eli and the O.....

gumby74
07-08-2013, 09:05 AM
goes for the rest of the team too....
but it mostly hinges on Eli and the O..... Sure does. But I don't see the defense getting much better this year. Eli needs to step it up.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 09:15 AM
Cannot wait for 2013. Eli will not repeat the same mistakes. Hopefully the team can follow suit.

BigBlue1971
07-08-2013, 10:30 AM
If we're to get back into the playoffs, good Eli has to show up more often than last year. Anytime your QB rating dips below 50, chances are, you're hurting your team.


I agree Eli has to improve from last year but it all goes hand in hand....his supporting cast on offense has to be consistent and the defense gotta stop people.

Eli is at his best in the playoffs when something lites him up.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:34 AM
The offense will need to break records this year. He better be really good.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:35 AM
The offense will need to break records this year. He better be really good.

They need to win 12 games

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:37 AM
The offense will need to break records this year. He better be really good.Which ones?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:37 AM
They need to win 12 gamesYeah but they will probably need to score a lot and be able to control the ball when needed.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:38 AM
Which ones?Points scored, TOP, and whatever other stat can be measured.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:41 AM
Yeah but they will probably need to score a lot and be able to control the ball when needed.

I am hoping we actually have complementary defensive and special teams this season that makes winning a tad easier and less stressful for my heart. Get us average field position beyond the 30, more three and outs on defense, and Stevie Brown gets 10 interceptions (while knowing where he is supposed to be on the fieldl).

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:41 AM
Points scored, TOP, and whatever other stat can be measured.How many points realistically do you think we should score?

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:42 AM
I am hoping we actually have complementary defensive and special teams this season that makes winning a tad easier and less stressful for my heart. Get us average field position beyond the 30, more three and outs on defense, and Stevie Brown gets 10 interceptions (while knowing where he is supposed to be on the fieldl).Too bad we are going on the 2nd year of that not happening.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:44 AM
Too bad we are going on the 2nd year of that not happening.

I'm not so sure. I think we have some real promise at DT to increase QB pressure. ST's did a pretty good job last year if I recall correctly.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:45 AM
I'm not so sure. I think we have some real promise at DT to increase QB pressure. ST's did a pretty good job last year if I recall correctly.The DT position is interesting, but will that and ST's help be enough to get opposing offenses off the field?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:46 AM
How many points realistically do you think we should score?Hey need to break records.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:48 AM
Hey need to break records.Ok, but how many points do you think they need to score?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:48 AM
I'm not so sure. I think we have some real promise at DT to increase QB pressure. ST's did a pretty good job last year if I recall correctly.They may be better at DT, but DE is another story. A lot of what ifs right now at DE. The LB's? The secondary aside from Prince?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:48 AM
Ok, but how many points do you think they need to score?More than they ever have.

TheAnalyst
07-08-2013, 10:49 AM
How many points realistically do you think we should score?

Im hoping we average at least 28pts a game.

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:49 AM
The DT position is interesting, but will that and ST's help be enough to get opposing offenses off the field?

No, that's where the shaky secondary matters. If the front 7 can get more pressure, a mediocre secondary can shine.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:50 AM
More than they ever have.Do you even know the number?

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:51 AM
They may be better at DT, but DE is another story. A lot of what ifs right now at DE. The LB's? The secondary aside from Prince?

True, but if we have a couple of DTs who can collapse the pocket, it should make the DEs more potent. There are always a lot of ifs going into a season. I hope we have a clearer picture after training ca p and the pre-season games.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:51 AM
Im hoping we average at least 28pts a game.Thanks for answering the question lol.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:52 AM
No, that's where the shaky secondary matters. If the front 7 can get more pressure, a mediocre secondary can shine.Ehh...puts a lot of pressure on the front to perform game in and game out like that.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:54 AM
Do you even know the number?How much did they score last year on average? Well take that number and add more to it. The defense does not look good right now and that bad when even on paper you can't make a unit look good. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised.

NYGabriel
07-08-2013, 10:55 AM
If Eli has another mid season collapse how long before fans start chanting for Nassib?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:55 AM
True, but if we have a couple of DTs who can collapse the pocket, it should make the DEs more potent. There are always a lot of ifs going into a season. I hope we have a clearer picture after training ca p and the pre-season games.Eh, seems like the more recent past had us seeing a team that looked pretty good on paper. This year they don't look all that impressive. So maybe it will work the other way. Not expecting much and then being pleasantly surprised.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 10:56 AM
How much did they score last year on average? Well take that number and add more to it. The defense does not look good right now and that bad when even on paper you can't make a unit look good. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised.But I was asking you what that number was, and how much should I add to it?

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:57 AM
Sure does. But I don't see the defense getting much better this year. Eli needs to step it up.
I still have hope that they will have a good DT/DE rotation....somehow. Maybe a few of these LBs can actually learn how to play NFL football too...

RoanokeFan
07-08-2013, 10:57 AM
Ehh...puts a lot of pressure on the front to perform game in and game out like that.

True, which could be why Reese brought so many DTs in so we'd have quality rotation. That will depend on the final 53 of course

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:57 AM
But I was asking you what that number was, and how much should I add to it?Already told you. They have to set records and score more than they ever have. Look it up. Shouldn't be hard to find.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 11:01 AM
Already told you. They have to set records and score more than they ever have. Look it up. Shouldn't be hard to find.Already told you is not a number. Do you even know how many points we scored last year? How long should we hold the ball for?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 11:02 AM
Already told you is not a number. Do you even know how many points we scored last year? How long should we hold the ball for?They need to score more and hold on to the ball more than last year. Make up a number if you want and then need more than that.

BigBlue1971
07-08-2013, 11:04 AM
If Eli has another mid season collapse how long before fans start chanting for Nassib?

don't get ahead of ourselves. we haven't even seen Nassib yet. besides Eli will have a much better 2013.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 11:04 AM
True, which could be why Reese brought so many DTs in so we'd have quality rotation. That will depend on the final 53 of courseThe DT's may be the only position they have that looks somewhat solid on paper.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 11:05 AM
They need to score more and hold on to the ball more than last year. Make up a number if you want and they need more than that.They scored more points last year (589) than in 2011, but in 2011 they made the playoffs and went to the Super Bowl. So yeah..scoring points doesn't mean you'll be fine..

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 11:07 AM
They scored more points last year (589) than in 2011, but in 2011 they made the playoffs and went to the Super Bowl. So yeah..scoring points doesn't mean you'll be fine..Yeah, and the best offense ever failed to win the Super Bowl. They have a better chance with the offense being really good than the defense so they need to score lots of points. May need to break records and not just their own.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 11:08 AM
Yeah, and the best offense ever failed to win the Super Bowl. They have a better chance with the offense being really good than the defense so they need to score lots of points. May need to break records and not just their own.But that doesn't mean anything if the defense gives up that much and more, and it's definitely possible. Points scored means nothing if you have no defense.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 11:11 AM
But that doesn't mean anything if the defense gives up that much and more, and it's definitely possible. Points scored means nothing if you have no defense.Last year the defense was 12th in points against and they didn't make the playoffs. The Steelers where 5th and didn't make the playoffs either.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 11:12 AM
Last year the defense was 12th in points against and they didn't make the playoffs.That's only one aspect. We had a top 10 offense and failed to make the playoffs. Both of our points are only one aspect of how we really performed.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 11:41 AM
Talking about this year coming up. Last year the defense was able to be 12th in points allowed. That's the most important defensive stat. Some say they can't be worse than last year and that's not true. They can rank higher if they allow less yards but also allow more points. That would be worse. This defense has to many what ifs right now for anyone to think they will be better or even as good as last year with points allowed.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 11:43 AM
Talking about this year coming up. Last year the defense was able to be 12th in points allowed. That's the most important defensive stat. Some say they can't be worse than last year and that's not true. They can rank higher if they allow less yards but also allow more points. That would be worse. This defense has to many what ifs right now for anyone to think they will be better or even as good as last year with points allowed.The most important stat based on what?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 11:46 AM
What's more important? Yards racked up or points?

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 11:54 AM
What's more important? Yards racked up or points?Uh, well if you are giving up yards, that means your offense is sitting on the bench..

gumby74
07-08-2013, 11:54 AM
Talking about this year coming up. Last year the defense was able to be 12th in points allowed. That's the most important defensive stat. Some say they can't be worse than last year and that's not true. They can rank higher if they allow less yards but also allow more points. That would be worse. This defense has to many what ifs right now for anyone to think they will be better or even as good as last year with points allowed.

Our offense needs to be more consistent. If you score 56 points in one game and 0 in the next, chances are you're going to lose 1 game, but it's still a 28 point average. However, if you score 28 and 28, then the chance you win both are much much higher.

speedman
07-08-2013, 11:59 AM
Uh, well if you are giving up yards, that means your offense is sitting on the bench..Agree. You have to get the other team off the field, which they didn't do last year.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 12:03 PM
An the old "the offense was on the bench defense". Like that one about as much as the "defense was on the field to much".

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 12:04 PM
Our offense needs to be more consistent. If you score 56 points in one game and 0 in the next, chances are you're going to lose 1 game, but it's still a 28 point average. However, if you score 28 and 28, then the chance you win both are much much higher.Exactly.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 12:05 PM
Uh, well if you are giving up yards, that means your offense is sitting on the bench..If the offense is on the field controlling the clock and scoring consistently they wouldn't have to worry about being on the bench. By the way, the offense did a fine job of putting themselves on the bench with 3 and outs.

speedman
07-08-2013, 12:09 PM
An the old "the offense was on the bench defense". Like that one about as much as the "defense was on the field to much".Don't you think the defense needs to be able to get the other team off the field?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 12:12 PM
Of course. Did not say it wouldn't help. Said the most important defensive stat is points allowed. The offense played a part in sitting in the bench too. Anyway, this is a new season and the defense has lots of questions to answer.

speedman
07-08-2013, 12:22 PM
Of course. Did not say it wouldn't help. Said the most important defensive stat is points allowed. The offense played a part in sitting in the bench too. Anyway, this is a new season and the defense has lots of questions to answer.Bend but don't break defense doesn't win chapioships. Look at the last six games of 2011, including playoffs, that was aggressive defense.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 12:28 PM
Points win games.

Rudyy
07-08-2013, 12:36 PM
Exactly.Consistent scoring is the key. Not just scoring more than the previous year. We did that in 2012 and got us nowhere. And neither side was good on 3rd downs last year. Offebse couldn't covert 3rd downs, and our defense couldn't stop anyone on 3rd down.

speedman
07-08-2013, 12:42 PM
Points win games.In 2012 we scored 429 points gave up 344. In 2011 we sored 394 points gave up 400. Kind of shoots down your theory.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 12:44 PM
In 2012 we scored 429 points gave up 344. In 2011 we sored 394 points gave up 400. Kind of shoots down your theory.It's about consistency with those point.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 12:46 PM
Our offense needs to be more consistent. If you score 56 points in one game and 0 in the next, chances are you're going to lose 1 game, but it's still a 28 point average. However, if you score 28 and 28, then the chance you win both are much much higher.


Uh, well if you are giving up yards, that means your offense is sitting on the bench..

That's true, and I do think that the defense is mostly to blame. But anytime your defense is 12th in points allowed, your offense - especially with the weapons we have, SHOULD be able to pick up the slack.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 12:47 PM
Consistent scoring is the key. Not just scoring more than the previous year. We did that in 2012 and got us nowhere. And neither side was good on 3rd downs last year. Offebse couldn't covert 3rd downs, and our defense couldn't stop anyone on 3rd down.Wasn't trying to make this a debate on last season. Don't think the defense will be able to keep teams from scoring THIS year so that's why they need to break records on offense and that wasn't meant to be taken literally.

rebelfan1966
07-08-2013, 12:50 PM
After reading the first post on this thread, it's obviously time to sit Eli and start the new guy. We all know it's Eli's fault when his WRs get hurt mid season, or if plays behind a make shift O-Line.

speedman
07-08-2013, 12:51 PM
Wasn't trying to make this a debate on last season. Don't think the defense will be able to keep teams from scoring THIS year so that's why they need to break records on offense and that wasn't meant to be taken literally.We could probably get into the playoffs on offense, but we won't win a championship without the defense. I hope you're wrong about the defense.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 12:55 PM
After reading the first post on this thread, it's obviously time to sit Eli and start the new guy. We all know it's Eli's fault when his WRs get hurt mid season, or if plays behind a make shift O-Line.

Just stop it with the persecution complex already.

speedman
07-08-2013, 01:14 PM
That's true, and I do think that the defense is mostly to blame. But anytime your defense is 12th in points allowed, your offense - especially with the weapons we have, SHOULD be able to pick up the slack.We didn't have the weapons last year because Nicks was hurt from the second game.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 01:41 PM
After reading the first post on this thread, it's obviously time to sit Eli and start the new guy. We all know it's Eli's fault when his WRs get hurt mid season, or if plays behind a make shift O-Line.Other elite QB's play with bad situations and do a better job than he did last year. Eli is the QB of this team and that's a good thing, but he did not play very well last year.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 01:42 PM
We didn't have the weapons last year because Nicks was hurt from the second game. Anytime you have a QB that has a 20 million dollar cap hit and a 1k yard WR in Cruz, my expectations will be raised. Having absolutely putrid offensive games is unacceptable. It doesn't have to be pretty all the time, but let's at least get an average performance.

GCGiant
07-08-2013, 01:45 PM
Points win games. Works for the other team, too...

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 01:46 PM
Anytime you have a QB that has a 20 million dollar cap hit and a 1k yard WR in Cruz, my expectations will be raised. Having absolutely putrid offensive games is unacceptable. It doesn't have to be pretty all the time, but let's at least get an average performance.This. Other QB's played under not so great situations and played fine last year. People get offended when you say he had a bad year like that means you don't like him. He just didn't have a good year. Nothing wrong with saying that.

GCGiant
07-08-2013, 01:51 PM
This. Other QB's played under not so great situations and played fine last year. People get offended when you say he had a bad year like that means you don't like him. He just didn't have a good year. Nothing wrong with saying that.There is something wrong with it if that is all your saying...never acknowledging the obstacles that had to be overcome last year...and weren't...on both sides of the ball. Did Eli have a bad year? Yes...along with everyone else. Would he have done better if things were different and everybody was there? I say yes.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 01:53 PM
Brees had a pretty good year despite not having his head coach, losing his OG, and having some injuries on offense as well. Rodgers has not had a good OL in a couple years, no running game, and some injuries to deal with as well.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 01:55 PM
Brees had a pretty good year despite not having his head coach, losing his OG, and having some injuries on offense as well. Rodgers has not had a good OL in a couple years, no running game, and some injuries to deal with as well.
But they are better QBs than Eli is.....:rolleyes:

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 01:56 PM
But they are better QBs than Eli is.....:rolleyes:Now you've done it!

GCGiant
07-08-2013, 01:58 PM
Brees had a pretty good year despite not having his head coach, losing his OG, and having some injuries on offense as well. Rodgers has not had a good OL in a couple years, no running game, and some injuries to deal with as well.Brees lead the league in picks. The Saints didn't even break 500 last year, did they? Rodgers and Brees ended up in the same place as Eli on SB Sunday...on the couch with popcorn and beer in hand.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 02:08 PM
Yes they ended up in the same place but not because they had bad seasons. Brees threw for over 5,000 yards and over 40 TD's. Rodgers lead the league in QBR.

rebelfan1966
07-08-2013, 02:33 PM
Eli is so horrible, I say let's can him asap. We have a new young QB, put him in there and let him play. Eli had to play his first year, so did Sanchez, RG III, Luck, and others. Let's shed Eli and free up some money for the future and let the new guy take the reins right now.

I'm sick of the same people complaining year after year.... hence the sarcasm above.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 02:58 PM
Eli is so horrible, I say let's can him asap. We have a new young QB, put him in there and let him play. Eli had to play his first year, so did Sanchez, RG III, Luck, and others. Let's shed Eli and free up some money for the future and let the new guy take the reins right now.

I'm sick of the same people complaining year after year.... hence the sarcasm above. Who's complaining and how did they complain?

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 03:12 PM
Who's complaining and how did they complain?Wrong thread. Didn't see complaining on his one.

speedman
07-08-2013, 03:26 PM
Anytime you have a QB that has a 20 million dollar cap hit and a 1k yard WR in Cruz, my expectations will be raised. Having absolutely putrid offensive games is unacceptable. It doesn't have to be pretty all the time, but let's at least get an average performance. Cap hit doesn't have anything to do with the conversation. If the defense was at least average we would have made the playoffs.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 03:47 PM
Yeah and if the offense wasn't so inconsistent they would have been in the playoffs.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 03:49 PM
Cap hit doesn't have anything to do with the conversation. If the defense was at least average we would have made the playoffs.

Of course it does. Anytime you have alot of money going to one player, it's going to raise the question if that money can be better utilized elsewhere for the better of the team. Who's to say that instead of re-signing Nicks we won't be better off with 2 stud guards to better protect Eli and have a better run game? Who's to say that instead of re-signing JPP that we won't be better off with a shutdown corner and a really good LBer? Salary Cap hit is EVERYTHING.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 03:53 PM
Yeah and if the offense wasn't so inconsistent they would have been in the playoffs.

Gumby and Buddy,

I just want to get a handle on what you are saying, because it seems to be all over the place.

Is it on Eli, on the offense, or both?

Personally...it looks to me that we sink or swim with the O this year, and like it or not, the O sinks or swims with Eli.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 03:56 PM
Of course it does. Anytime you have alot of money going to one player, it's going to raise the question if that money can be better utilized elsewhere for the better of the team. Who's to say that instead of re-signing Nicks we won't be better off with 2 stud guards to better protect Eli and have a better run game? Who's to say that instead of re-signing JPP that we won't be better off with a shutdown corner and a really good LBer? Salary Cap hit is EVERYTHING.

I often say I know nothing about the cap, but you are making me feel like a super genius.

Eli's cap money is already spent; is already a hit. You can't unring a bell

Now...if you just want to whine about it, that's another discussion.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 03:58 PM
Gumby and Buddy,

I just want to get a handle on what you are saying, because it seems to be all over the place.

Is it on Eli, on the offense, or both?

Personally...it looks to me that we sink or swim with the O this year, and like it or not, the O sinks or swims with Eli.

Silly boy. It's always both. It's a team game.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 04:00 PM
Gumby and Buddy,I just want to get a handle on what you are saying, because it seems to be all over the place.Is it on Eli, on the offense, or both?Personally...it looks to me that we sink or swim with the O this year, and like it or not, the O sinks or swims with Eli.Last year it was both. This year they need Eli to play very well because the defense does not look great. This team goes as Eli goes.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 04:02 PM
I often say I know nothing about the cap, but you are making me feel like a super genius.

Eli's cap money is already spent; is already a hit. You can't unring a bell

Now...if you just want to whine about it, that's another discussion.

This isn't about Eli nor is it about the current salary cap hit. The point is that either way, Eli, JPP, Nicks or whoever is going to get a huge contract. And you have to justify that your team is going to be better with that one person than using whatever you just spent. The the rest of what you just wrote is you trying to be snarky.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 04:04 PM
Last year it was both. This year they need Eli to play very well because the defense does not look great. This team goes as Eli goes.

Pretty much how I look at it. Guy has an off year, and we are in deep.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 04:06 PM
This isn't about Eli nor is it about the current salary cap hit. The point is that either way, Eli, JPP, Nicks or whoever is going to get a huge contract. And you have to justify that your team is going to be better with that one person than using whatever you just spent. The the rest of what you just wrote is you trying to be snarky.

The money is spent!!! It's done...old news.

All that's left is the complaining, which is certainly a strong suit for you.

gumby74
07-08-2013, 04:19 PM
The money is spent!!! It's done...old news.

All that's left is the complaining, which is certainly a strong suit for you.

Eli's salary cap hit in 2014 is 20 million. Rolle 9 million, Snee 9 million. Not old news. I look to the future my friend. Not now. If you want to worry about NOW, play madden.

Giantz4Life
07-08-2013, 04:24 PM
Last year it was both. This year they need Eli to play very well because the defense does not look great. This team goes as Eli goes.

I agree with this statement completely. Very similar to the Packers last season...they went as far as Rodgers could take them but the defense was just putrid at certain times as was the offensive line. Obviously Rodgers played much better than Eli hence they made the playoffs and we sat at home. Unfortunately for us, Rodgers is able to extend plays Eli cannot when the O-Line breaks down. However, I think our defense is more talented than Green Bay's so hopefully they can step it up when needed this season.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 04:39 PM
Eli's salary cap hit in 2014 is 20 million. Rolle 9 million, Snee 9 million. Not old news. I look to the future my friend. Not now. If you want to worry about NOW, play madden.

What's the plan for changing Eli's cap number in 2014?

I understand the plan for complaining about it, I am just a little fuzzy on how it gets changed.

Go ahead and crack an egg of knowledge on my head and let me know what we should do about that 20 mil cap hit in 2014?

gumby74
07-08-2013, 04:45 PM
What's the plan for changing Eli's cap number in 2014?

I understand the plan for complaining about it, I am just a little fuzzy on how it gets changed.

Go ahead and crack an egg of knowledge on my head and let me know what we should do about that 20 mil cap hit in 2014?

Huh? Do you even know what this was about? The poster was asking why the salary cap hit is relevant to a teams performance. That's what I was answering. Instead of focusing so much on the trees. Look for the forest. This has nothing to do with me "complaining" for the sake of complaining about people's high cap hits. I have no idea where you pulled that from.

GCGiant
07-08-2013, 05:11 PM
Well...the question that begs to be asked is if not Eli, then who...and how much do you want to pay him? I believe that DC is correct in that the money is already spent, but I am just curious to find out what the alternative plan would be.

speedman
07-08-2013, 05:37 PM
Of course it does. Anytime you have alot of money going to one player, it's going to raise the question if that money can be better utilized elsewhere for the better of the team. Who's to say that instead of re-signing Nicks we won't be better off with 2 stud guards to better protect Eli and have a better run game? Who's to say that instead of re-signing JPP that we won't be better off with a shutdown corner and a really good LBer? Salary Cap hit is EVERYTHING.What are you talking about? The conversation was about who has to step up this year offense or defense not about anyone's cap hit.

speedman
07-08-2013, 05:42 PM
Huh? Do you even know what this was about? The poster was asking why the salary cap hit is relevant to a teams performance. That's what I was answering. Instead of focusing so much on the trees. Look for the forest. This has nothing to do with me "complaining" for the sake of complaining about people's high cap hits. I have no idea where you pulled that from.If you're talking about me, I said nothing like that. I said the salary cap issue that you brought up had nothing to do with the conversation.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 05:47 PM
"Not Manning's best work, that is the simplest way to put it. His touchdown and interception numbers were roughly the same as they were in 2011, 29 TDs and 16 INTs in 2011 to 26 and 15 in 2012. His total yardage dropped by nearly 1,000 yards, however, his passing yards per game went from a career-best 308.3 to 246.8, his lowest average since 2008. There were four games where his quarterback rating dipped below 60.0, two of those below 50.0 with his worst game being a 13-for-25, two interception stinker with a passer rating of a putrid 38.9. His rating for the season was a pedestrian 87.2. His completion percentage (59.9 percent) was his first season below 60 percent since 2007. "

hopefully not signs of age and regression

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 05:58 PM
Here's the best part of having any discussion with you: the utter and complete lack of integrity or honesty


The poster was asking why the salary cap hit is relevant to a teams performance. That's what I was answering.

Why this almost makes you look like a prince among men, bravely answering another posters question about a cap hit.

Was there a reason that you didn't say he was asking a question to you, about why you brought up Eli's cap number?

The entire cap number thing started with you! My question has been why did you bring it up and all, other than to whine about what Eli get's paid.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 06:05 PM
"Not Manning's best work, that is the simplest way to put it. His touchdown and interception numbers were roughly the same as they were in 2011, 29 TDs and 16 INTs in 2011 to 26 and 15 in 2012. His total yardage dropped by nearly 1,000 yards, however, his passing yards per game went from a career-best 308.3 to 246.8, his lowest average since 2008. There were four games where his quarterback rating dipped below 60.0, two of those below 50.0 with his worst game being a 13-for-25, two interception stinker with a passer rating of a putrid 38.9. His rating for the season was a pedestrian 87.2. His completion percentage (59.9 percent) was his first season below 60 percent since 2007. "

hopefully not signs of age and regression

I hate the "regression" thing and the age thing isn't very likely, but your main point is spot on. Just as I (and Buddy) was saying...as goes Eli, so goes the Gmen.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 06:13 PM
I hate the "regression" thing and the age thing isn't very likely, but your main point is spot on. Just as I (and Buddy) was saying...as goes Eli, so goes the Gmen. it happens to the best of them. Nas can be ready by 2015 im thinking. although the back end of elis contract hurts a bit on bringing the right personal around him. we could be set up for the future nicely.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 06:15 PM
it happens to the best of them. Nas can be ready by 2015 im thinking. although the back end of elis contract hurts a bit on bringing the right personal around him. we could be set up for the future nicely.

Hey...I don't know what the future holds, but whatever future has us seamlessly passing the torch at QB I am all for.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 06:51 PM
id hate to lose the kid if eli plays well and stays put, but thats ok if that happens also. whatever is best for the
Giants.

Roosevelt
07-08-2013, 09:54 PM
Last year it was both. This year they need Eli to play very well because the defense does not look great. This team goes as Eli goes.

Why do you say that? I don't think we can play any worse on D.

Roosevelt
07-08-2013, 10:00 PM
id hate to lose the kid if eli plays well and stays put, but thats ok if that happens also. whatever is best for the
Giants.

This kid at least gives us some options. If Eli plays well and we don't need him, that's great. But if Eli can't play consistently well at this stage, and this kid shows he's the real deal, then we should allow Eli to play out his contract and slide the kid in.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 10:03 PM
This kid at least gives us some options. If Eli plays well and we don't need him, that's great. But if Eli can't play consistently well at this stage, and this kid shows he's the real deal, then we should allow Eli to play out his contract and slide the kid in. i just have fears the giants out of loyalty will leave Eli is even if he is regressing.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:05 PM
i just have fears the giants out of loyalty will leave Eli is even if he is regressing.
Nassib hasnt shown squat. I hope he does but we seem to be thinking a bit too mcuh into the future.

BTW....Eli just doeasnt have bad games or a season. he actually regresses....nice. Another Haroonism in regards to Eli.
Heck....I am not even and Eli homer and your BS is still extremely annoying....:p

Harooni
07-08-2013, 10:11 PM
Nassib hasnt shown squat. I hope he does but we seem to be thinking a bit too mcuh into the future.

BTW....Eli just doeasnt have bad games or a season. he actually regresses....nice. Another Haroonism in regards to Eli.
Heck....I am not even and Eli homer and your BS is still extremely annoying....:p no im not saying he is regressing, i dont think so. im saying if , it continues with age to decline.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:15 PM
no im not saying he is regressing, i dont think so. im saying if , it continues with age to decline.

:rolleyes:

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 10:16 PM
i just have fears the giants out of loyalty will leave Eli is even if he is regressing.

What would make you think this would happen?

The organization really doesn't have any kind of history of doing that.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 10:18 PM
:rolleyes:

oh come on i'm on board with Eli

Harooni
07-08-2013, 10:21 PM
What would make you think this would happen?

The organization really doesn't have any kind of history of doing that. maybe not , but Eli is a manning its different.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:21 PM
oh come on i'm on board with Eli
you are....I know. But you must admit you use his Manning name amognst other things to give the back handed compliments pretty often.
You are certainly not alone. MoorHead is big for that too....:)

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 10:21 PM
maybe not , but Eli is a manning its different.

And you base that on...?

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:22 PM
maybe not , but Eli is a manning its different.

just to annoy me right???.....:)

Harooni
07-08-2013, 10:24 PM
Look in the NFL Mannings are football royalty. you really think we would ever bench Eli? even with a 0 qb rating they keep him in there. thats how it is,

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:29 PM
Look in the NFL Mannings are football royalty. you really think we would ever bench Eli? even with a 0 qb rating they keep him in there. thats how it is,
because he is a Manning??.....no way. Maybe because what he has meant to the team and the org.

Archie was a decent QB. Peyton and Eli are 8 years apart. The two sons have excelled and have worked hard to be good. Didnt work for Simms' kids. Why.....they werent that good.....

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 10:31 PM
Look in the NFL Mannings are football royalty. you really think we would ever bench Eli? even with a 0 qb rating they keep him in there. thats how it is,

I see...so you see it as the Manning name that keeps the organization behind him.

It has nothing to do with the multiple SB wins, the 2 MVP's, the ability to forget a bad play and come right back?

No...it's the name.

I suppose the reason that Peyton is still starting has less to do with the fact that he's one of the greatest QB's of all time and everything to do with his last name.

Does the name thing transfer to Abby, 'cause Buffalo is looking for a QB?

Does it sound ridiculous when you read it, or does it still make sense?
I mean "sense" in the tinfoil hat kinda way.

Buddy333
07-08-2013, 10:36 PM
Why do you say that? I don't think we can play any worse on D.They absolutely can. They where as inconsistent as the offense last year. Played bad one week, shut down a power house offense the next. They can be a lot worse. They could give up tons of points and not force as many turn overs.

Roosevelt
07-08-2013, 10:41 PM
i just have fears the giants out of loyalty will leave Eli is even if he is regressing.

I hear ya, but think of JR running our team. He's as business-like as they get.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 10:42 PM
maybe it does sound silly, but even before the sb's before the mvp's a guy like rex grossman gets benched for similar stats to eli and eli doesnt. so that says two things last name clout to leave him starting longer or the giants org is more loyal.

Roosevelt
07-08-2013, 10:43 PM
Nassib hasnt shown squat. I hope he does but we seem to be thinking a bit too mcuh into the future.

BTW....Eli just doeasnt have bad games or a season. he actually regresses....nice. Another Haroonism in regards to Eli.
Heck....I am not even and Eli homer and your BS is still extremely annoying....:p

Contrary to your comments, but not that it matters at this stage, the coaches have made no bones about it that the kid has looked good. Better than Eli at the same stage.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:45 PM
Contrary to your comments, but not that it matters at this stage, the coaches have made no bones about it that the kid has looked good. Better than Eli at the same stage.
So he looks better than Eli did during his first OTAs and rookie camp. Ok.....I guess its better than not..
Harooni's BS is still annoying tho.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:47 PM
maybe it does sound silly, but even before the sb's before the mvp's a guy like rex grossman gets benched for similar stats to eli and eli doesnt. so that says two things last name clout to leave him starting longer or the giants org is more loyal.
No...the Giants org is smarter Eli is a better player......its more than stats to make a QB that "has it"

Bing Crosby
07-08-2013, 10:48 PM
because he is a Manning??.....no way. Maybe because what he has meant to the team and the org.

Archie was a decent QB. Peyton and Eli are 8 years apart. The two sons have excelled and have worked hard to be good. Didnt work for Simms' kids. Why.....they werent that good.....

Agreed Eli is there because of what he has done for us. People are still *****ing about the guy who helped us win two Super Bowls?

It's also true that the Manning Family is more famous then the Simms, but that is because Peyton and Eli have proven to be more then worthy heirs to their father. The Simms family only has Pops.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 10:49 PM
maybe it does sound silly, but even before the sb's before the mvp's a guy like rex grossman gets benched for similar stats to eli and eli doesnt. so that says two things last name clout to leave him starting longer or the giants org is more loyal.

I have a better explanation than the Manning name - we have a very well run organization with a lot of strong football minds who saw more than the stats.
They stood by him because they knew it was the right call and the right way to develop what they felt they had - a franchise QB.
It was the right decision, it was the smart decision and it paid off.

It is what well run organizations do.

Drez
07-08-2013, 10:51 PM
maybe it does sound silly, but even before the sb's before the mvp's a guy like rex grossman gets benched for similar stats to eli and eli doesnt. so that says two things last name clout to leave him starting longer or the giants org is more loyal.If you can't distinguish why a guy like Grossman gets benched while Eli hadn't for similar performance (other than family name), then this discussion isn't really worth having.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 10:52 PM
Agreed Eli is there because of what he has done for us. People are still *****ing about the guy who helped us win two Super Bowls?

It's also true that the Manning Family is more famous then the Simms, but that is because Peyton and Eli have proven to be more then worthy heirs to their father. The Simms family only has Pops.
Right....the Manning name is what it is more because of Peyton and now Eli way more then it is about Archie.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 10:54 PM
Contrary to your comments, but not that it matters at this stage, the coaches have made no bones about it that the kid has looked good. Better than Eli at the same stage.

I don't think that's a very fair way of putting it.

They have said he looked good, looked composed and performed very well.

Eli was a disaster.

Nassib wasn't just better than Eli, it's a huge gap.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 10:56 PM
well lets not forget the bears got pretty far with grossman putting up eli like numbers. suppose he was here in this system with coughlin and got the full 32 starts eli got to prove himself , who knows.

Bing Crosby
07-08-2013, 10:57 PM
Right....the Manning name is what it is more because of Peyton and now Eli way more then it is about Archie.

Very true. It's why there really isn't a "Simms name". Or a "Montana name" right now. Take out Peyton and Eli and there is no such thing as "the Manning Name". There is just Archie... a qb of the 70s and 80s that is famous for the fact that Deacon Jones said he was the only QB he ever felt bad about hitting because his ol was so atrocious.

Antwuan
07-08-2013, 10:57 PM
Cannot wait for 2013. Eli will not repeat the same mistakes. Hopefully the team can follow suit.

+1

Antwuan
07-08-2013, 10:59 PM
Eli Manning has to get back to his 2011 form where nearly threw for 5,000 Yards.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 11:00 PM
well lets not forget the bears got pretty far with grossman putting up eli like numbers. suppose he was here in this system with coughlin and got the full 32 starts eli got to prove himself , who knows.

I would like to think you know the answer to this: our smart, well run organization would have been able to determine that Rex was NOT a franchise QB and began to look for alternatives.

I am not sure why this part is so hard for you to get.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 11:03 PM
I guess im thinking about eli's first 2 1/2 years and this coaching staff pulled off a SB coached Eli got him to improve , one would think Rex would get better too. i mean he was in the nfl for a reason. even guys that dont start have ability.

Rusty192
07-08-2013, 11:04 PM
Harooni working overtime in MS's absence

Harooni
07-08-2013, 11:06 PM
Harooni working overtime in MS's absencelol, we tag each other in and out

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 11:10 PM
I guess im thinking about eli's first 2 1/2 years and this coaching staff pulled off a SB coached Eli got him to improve , one would think Rex would get better too. i mean he was in the nfl for a reason. even guys that dont start have ability.

Really?

It's just that simple...put any guy behind center, get the right coach and "boom" here comes the Superbowls, baby!

How about this: The giants may well have tried to develop Rex, but that doesn't mean that it would have the same results they had with Eli.
The primary difference? One is a franchise QB and the other is not.

Again...not sure why this is hard to understand.

Drez
07-08-2013, 11:14 PM
Really?

It's just that simple...put any guy behind center, get the right coach and "boom" here comes the Superbowls, baby!

How about this: The giants may well have tried to develop Rex, but that doesn't mean that it would have the same results they had with Eli.
The primary difference? One is a franchise QB and the other is not.

Again...not sure why this is hard to understand.'Rooni is just trolling.

Delicreep
07-08-2013, 11:17 PM
'Rooni is just trolling.

I'm just trying to tucker the lil fella out so he gets a good night sleep.

That, or enrage him.

Either is good for me.

Harooni
07-08-2013, 11:17 PM
no im not trolling in 2005 Rex showed he could play a bit, i think coaching and giving up on him is the reason he didnt make it.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 11:36 PM
I would like to think you know the answer to this: our smart, well run organization would have been able to determine that Rex was NOT a franchise QB and began to look for alternatives.

I am not sure why this part is so hard for you to get.
cause its about Eli. While Harooni likes Eli he still thinks he is not that great and more victim of circumstance rather than a just a really good NFL QB...
which is cool...thats his opnion. At least that what I think his opinion is.

GameTime
07-08-2013, 11:42 PM
no im not trolling in 2005 Rex showed he could play a bit, i think coaching and giving up on him is the reason he didnt make it.
yeah especially with a name like Grossman. Thats not a football name.
Bears gave him 5 years. Also he has had a few injuries as well......

appodictic
07-08-2013, 11:43 PM
It was a so-so season. Nicks being down and no mario had a big part of it. The real question is does Eli have 4 good years left? If he plays like he did last year this year, and maybe part of next year the giants will move on. Beating up on the scrub eagles, saints , and a couple other match up's really padded his stats. Last year was kinda a regression for him.

Roosevelt
07-08-2013, 11:49 PM
I don't think that's a very fair way of putting it.

They have said he looked good, looked composed and performed very well.

Eli was a disaster.

Nassib wasn't just better than Eli, it's a huge gap.

See there you go again...

gumby74
07-09-2013, 08:43 AM
Here's the best part of having any discussion with you: the utter and complete lack of integrity or honesty



Why this almost makes you look like a prince among men, bravely answering another posters question about a cap hit.

Was there a reason that you didn't say he was asking a question to you, about why you brought up Eli's cap number?

The entire cap number thing started with you! My question has been why did you bring it up and all, other than to whine about what Eli get's paid.

This was the sequence of events.


That's true, and I do think that the defense is mostly to blame. But anytime your defense is 12th in points allowed, your offense - especially with the weapons we have, SHOULD be able to pick up the slack.



We didn't have the weapons last year because Nicks was hurt from the second game.



Anytime you have a QB that has a 20 million dollar cap hit and a 1k yard WR in Cruz, my expectations will be raised. Having absolutely putrid offensive games is unacceptable. It doesn't have to be pretty all the time, but let's at least get an average performance.



Cap hit doesn't have anything to do with the conversation. If the defense was at least average we would have made the playoffs.



Of course it does. Anytime you have alot of money going to one player, it's going to raise the question if that money can be better utilized elsewhere for the better of the team. Who's to say that instead of re-signing Nicks we won't be better off with 2 stud guards to better protect Eli and have a better run game? Who's to say that instead of re-signing JPP that we won't be better off with a shutdown corner and a really good LBer? Salary Cap hit is EVERYTHING.


Key phrase, "anytime you have a QB that has a 20 million dollar cap hit and a 1k yard WR in Cruz, my expectations will be raised." (with regards offensive performance) and "if the defense was at least average". What the poster didn't realize that by complaining about the defensive performance in the playoffs, salary cap WILL affect that. If you can't sign good players, you aren't going to play well. Thus, salary cap impacts team performance - greatly. And that's what I was addressing - the "if the defense was at least average" bit.

You really need to stop getting riled up as soon as you see the the word "Eli". It's like your brain goes on fire, you start to see red, and can't think straight. I mentioned, Nicks, Cruz, and JPP cap hits as well. Whatever floats your boat, but you seem fixated on thinking that I'm out to get Eli. I'm curious, so how am I dishonest?

speedman
07-09-2013, 09:41 AM
This was the sequence of events.You can't bs your way out of this one. The conversation was who needs to step up the offense or the defense. You brought up cap hit it and it was not part of the CONVERSATION. Everyone understands cap hit.Key phrase, "anytime you have a QB that has a 20 million dollar cap hit and a 1k yard WR in Cruz, my expectations will be raised." (with regards offensive performance) and "if the defense was at least average". What the poster didn't realize that by complaining about the defensive performance in the playoffs, salary cap WILL affect that. If you can't sign good players, you aren't going to play well. Thus, salary cap impacts team performance - greatly. And that's what I was addressing - the "if the defense was at least average" bit.You really need to stop getting riled up as soon as you see the the word "Eli". It's like your brain goes on fire, you start to see red, and can't think straight. I mentioned, Nicks, Cruz, and JPP cap hits as well. Whatever floats your boat, but you seem fixated on thinking that I'm out to get Eli. I'm curious, so how am I dishonest?Pure bs.

gumby74
07-09-2013, 09:42 AM
Pure bs. Surely, you can do better than that. What do you disagree with?

EliDaMANning
07-09-2013, 10:00 AM
Pure bs.Couldn't agree more. 2012ers crack me up.

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 10:05 AM
The DT position is interesting, but will that and ST's help be enough to get opposing offenses off the field? When I know, I will let you know. :)

speedman
07-09-2013, 11:44 AM
Surely, you can do better than that. What do you disagree with?The conversation that I was having with another poster was who needed to step up. Then you came in and brought up cap hit. So cap hit had nothing to do with my previous conversation. Were you trying to imply that we should have a less expensive QB? If yes then just say we should get rid of Eli and get a cheaper QB so we can spend money on other players. Everyone understands the cap issues. It was silly to bring cap hit into that conversation.

EliDaMANning
07-10-2013, 08:08 AM
The conversation that I was having with another poster was who needed to step up. Then you came in and brought up cap hit. So cap hit had nothing to do with my previous conversation. Were you trying to imply that we should have a less expensive QB? If yes then just say we should get rid of Eli and get a cheaper QB so we can spend money on other players. Everyone understands the cap issues. It was silly to bring cap hit into that conversation.I like the part where he modified his entire post after being corrected LMAO. Good job quoting him for proof.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 12:28 PM
and i dont get his post either but only saw the ones quoted on this page. does he understand that we have more money invested into our D than our O? what does cap space have to do with how awful our D has been unless its from the perspective of not getting what we paid for? and i agree elidamanning and speedman.

GameTime
07-10-2013, 12:31 PM
and i dont get his post either but only saw the ones quoted on this page. does he understand that we have more money invested into our D than our O? what does cap space have to do with how awful our D has been unless its from the perspective of not getting what we paid for? and i agree elidamanning and speedman.

any top 5 QB will take a huge chunk of cap space on any team. Its a given.

RoanokeFan
07-10-2013, 12:36 PM
Contrary to your comments, but not that it matters at this stage, the coaches have made no bones about it that the kid has looked good. Better than Eli at the same stage.

I hope he's the back up in 2014

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 12:59 PM
I hope he's the back up in 2014the only way i could see that not being the case is if we trade him. otherwise, he should be the backup for a while.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 01:03 PM
any top 5 QB will take a huge chunk of cap space on any team. Its a given.true. but did u know that from the 2013-2017 seasons, eli is like not even on the top 20 list for qbs with guaranteed money owed...all this hubub about eli being expensive, virtually any qb that would be "top 15" will make more guaranteed money over the next 4 yr span.


and ultimately, my point in the post u quoted, was to show that we actually have more money invested in the D than the O. and if the contention is the O should be held to a standard where carrying the team is the standard because of how much we invest in our O, than when does the D ever have to earn their payout? which again, the D is (or was, not sure for this next year) getting more loot.

RoanokeFan
07-10-2013, 01:04 PM
the only way i could see that not being the case is if we trade him. otherwise, he should be the backup for a while.

That was my way of waving good-bye to Carr.

Kruunch
07-10-2013, 01:11 PM
Since Morehead State can't speak for himself right now, I'd just like to advocate Eli as the best QB in the history of the universe on his behalf.

Morehead State approves this message.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p1ukSB--qw0/TVgf75h-B8I/AAAAAAAAFGI/53ig6_8SM1I/s800/topshot-athena-lee.jpg

Random Asian chick says so.

gumby74
07-10-2013, 01:26 PM
and i dont get his post either but only saw the ones quoted on this page. does he understand that we have more money invested into our D than our O? what does cap space have to do with how awful our D has been unless its from the perspective of not getting what we paid for? and i agree elidamanning and speedman.

That's ELIte company right there.

Buddy333
07-10-2013, 01:31 PM
Wasn't the money brought up just to say that a guy making that money should have been able to carry the team? Not so much a knock on Eli to say he can't be good, or that he doesn't deserve his pay. Just that he didn't earn it last year? Don't think anyone can say he has not earned his contract. What two time Super Bowl MVP does bit get paid? Breaking it down year by year though, last year was not his best.

gumby74
07-10-2013, 04:57 PM
Wasn't the money brought up just to say that a guy making that money should have been able to carry the team? Not so much a knock on Eli to say he can't be good, or that he doesn't deserve his pay. Just that he didn't earn it last year? Don't think anyone can say he has not earned his contract. What two time Super Bowl MVP does bit get paid? Breaking it down year by year though, last year was not his best. People see the word Eli and they go insane and lose sight of what is being discussed.

Roosevelt
07-10-2013, 05:03 PM
Since Morehead State can't speak for himself right now, I'd just like to advocate Eli as the best QB in the history of the universe on his behalf.

Morehead State approves this message.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p1ukSB--qw0/TVgf75h-B8I/AAAAAAAAFGI/53ig6_8SM1I/s800/topshot-athena-lee.jpg

Random Asian chick says so.

Hear Hear!

GameTime
07-10-2013, 05:13 PM
People see the word Eli and they go insane and lose sight of what is being discussed.
thats goes for both camps...Pro Eli and Con Eli....
both extremes are a bunch of dopes

Rudyy
07-10-2013, 05:19 PM
thats goes for both camps...Pro Eli and Con Eli....both extremes are a bunch of dopes+1

gumby74
07-10-2013, 05:25 PM
thats goes for both camps...Pro Eli and Con Eli....
both extremes are a bunch of dopes
In spirit of some people, the only thing I can say is, "Cry more bro". But, i disagree that there is a Con Eli camp, because no one that's a Giants fan wants him to fail. However, there is a Con Pro-Eli camp.

Roosevelt
07-10-2013, 05:35 PM
thats goes for both camps...Pro Eli and Con Eli....
both extremes are a bunch of dopes

That's why I'm a realist like Fox News, fair and balanced I call it right down the middle.

You have entered Rosie's No Spin Zone.

Roosevelt
07-10-2013, 05:37 PM
In spirit of some people, the only thing I can say is, "Cry more bro". But, i disagree that there is a Con Eli camp, because no one that's a Giants fan wants him to fail. However, there is a Con Pro-Eli camp.

Excellent observation.

I don't like people fawning over athletes or celebrities. I find it creepy.

http://www.retrocrush.com/scary/Misery01.jpg

Rudyy
07-10-2013, 05:38 PM
That's why I'm a realist like Fox News, fair and balanced I call it right down the middle.You have entered Rosie's No Spin Zone.You lost me at "realist like Fox News".

GameTime
07-10-2013, 05:39 PM
In spirit of some people, the only thing I can say is, "Cry more bro". But, i disagree that there is a Con Eli camp, because no one that's a Giants fan wants him to fail. However, there is a Con Pro-Eli camp.
I aint crying at all 'Bro".....
The Eli homers go overboard to defend and then there is the group that make excuses for his success, are always quick to compliment backhandly, and just like to think they have to keep the homers down. Its the way it is.....if you cant see it then I guess your a bit blind

GameTime
07-10-2013, 05:40 PM
Excellent observation.

I don't like people fawning over athletes or celebrities. I find it creepy.

http://www.retrocrush.com/scary/Misery01.jpg

hey....I am saying BOTH sides are nuts. The Homers AND the bashers.......be clear on that

Rusty192
07-10-2013, 05:48 PM
It's really funny when the bashers call themselves "unbiased realists". They are the only ones who seem to say this the most.

Drez
07-10-2013, 07:14 PM
It's really funny when the bashers call themselves "unbiased realists". They are the only ones who seem to say this the most.Just like how certain cable news stations claim to be balanced, yet have a clear bias in their coverage.

In both news and on the boards, there's one thing I ask: Don't piss on my leg and then tell me it's raining.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 07:27 PM
i actually just wanted to double check/clarify. i saw the point made that due to the money invested in the offense (qb, wr, et al), that the offense should be held to a higher standard that includes carrying the D as part of the status quo.

i just dont see how that holds any water when our D has more money invested into it than the O...at least thats how it was fiscally last year. maybe the O overtook the D I dont have the most up to date #s...but if the D is still indeed more invested in, shouldn't they have to do their share at the least? following the logic above, (if one applies it fairly) then wouldnt the D even in fact be required to do more?

Flip Empty
07-10-2013, 07:30 PM
You lost me at "realist like Fox News".

Haha, I reckon. Fox are freaking propaganda artists.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 07:33 PM
and ESPN ran an interesting stat today because of Staffords extension. Of all the QBs with guaranteed money/contracts up to the 2017 season, Eli is owed less guaranteed money than like 20 starters...I couldnt believe the stat when I saw it because I thought we had back loaded his contract but I assume that made his guaranteed cap hit non existent.

i say this because we arent like other teams that invest so heavily into the QB position that all the other positions go ignored.

Drez
07-10-2013, 08:07 PM
and ESPN ran an interesting stat today because of Staffords extension. Of all the QBs with guaranteed money/contracts up to the 2017 season, Eli is owed less guaranteed money than like 20 starters...I couldnt believe the stat when I saw it because I thought we had back loaded his contract but I assume that made his guaranteed cap hit non existent.

i say this because we arent like other teams that invest so heavily into the QB position that all the other positions go ignored.It's all relative, though. How many of those contracts were done after Eli had made his deal?

gumby74
07-10-2013, 08:11 PM
I aint crying at all 'Bro".....
The Eli homers go overboard to defend and then there is the group that make excuses for his success, are always quick to compliment backhandly, and just like to think they have to keep the homers down. Its the way it is.....if you cant see it then I guess your a bit blind

About the crying, I was totally kidding btw. And yes, without the Eli groupies, I'm pretty certain Eli "bashers" wouldn't exist. At worst, the Eli threads would turn into what the Cruz threads are now.

Drez
07-10-2013, 08:30 PM
About the crying, I was totally kidding btw. And yes, without the Eli groupies, I'm pretty certain Eli "bashers" wouldn't exist. At worst, the Eli threads would turn into what the Cruz threads are now.That right there is the problem with the "bashers." I'd say that the vast majority of the recent "groupies" are a direct result of all the bashing done prior to the '11-'12 season, as the bashers tend to polarize and make them entrench into ever further extreme positions.

Buddy333
07-10-2013, 08:33 PM
The real problem is there is a difference between bashing a guy and just simply saying he had a bad year.

Roosevelt
07-10-2013, 08:50 PM
You lost me at "realist like Fox News".

Yeah but that's okay, Ann Coulter just PM'ed me.

Rudyy
07-10-2013, 08:51 PM
Yeah but that's okay, Ann Coulter just PM'ed me.You got a PM from the devil? How unfortunate!

Roosevelt
07-10-2013, 08:55 PM
It's really funny when the bashers call themselves "unbiased realists". They are the only ones who seem to say this the most.

If one of our players plays like crap for let's say a voluminous number of games in his career, is it truly bashing?

Roosevelt
07-10-2013, 09:00 PM
Just like how certain cable news stations claim to be balanced, yet have a clear bias in their coverage.

In both news and on the boards, there's one thing I ask: Don't piss on my leg and then tell me it's raining.

I don't drink my piss warm - I drink it cold! lol

Roosevelt
07-10-2013, 09:02 PM
You got a PM from the devil? How unfortunate!

The devil is hot! Szzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Why is it the conservative women on TV are attractive and the liberals, not so much?

Rudyy
07-10-2013, 09:06 PM
The devil is hot! Szzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.Why is it the conservative women on TV are attractive and the liberals, not so much?All that glitters, is not gold.

Drez
07-10-2013, 09:09 PM
Wasn't the money brought up just to say that a guy making that money should have been able to carry the team? Not so much a knock on Eli to say he can't be good, or that he doesn't deserve his pay. Just that he didn't earn it last year? Don't think anyone can say he has not earned his contract. What two time Super Bowl MVP does bit get paid? Breaking it down year by year though, last year was not his best.Didn't Eli only count like $10m against the cap last year? That's Alex Smith money. So, if you want to talk about getting what you pay for........

And let's also not lose sight of the fact that Eli's "bad" year is a good number of QBs' very good year.

Drez
07-10-2013, 09:10 PM
The devil is hot! Szzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Why is it the conservative women on TV are attractive and the liberals, not so much?Marketing.

Eli TO Shockey
07-10-2013, 09:16 PM
Haha, I reckon. Fox are freaking propaganda artists.

lol as are all media outlets.

Eli TO Shockey
07-10-2013, 09:17 PM
Eli manning?

Eli TO Shockey
07-10-2013, 09:17 PM
Marketing.

dunno hillary clinton muy bueno

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 09:21 PM
Didn't Eli only count like $10m against the cap last year? That's Alex Smith money. So, if you want to talk about getting what you pay for........

And let's also not lose sight of the fact that Eli's "bad" year is a good number of QBs' very good year.kinda the point i was trying to get at.

Rusty192
07-10-2013, 09:33 PM
If one of our players plays like crap for let's say a voluminous number of games in his career, is it truly bashing?"playing like crap" is open to interpretation and is just someone's opinion.

The level that the flame arguments get to on here is clearly more than the result of some people constructively critiquing a few games.

Rusty192
07-10-2013, 09:33 PM
lol as are all media outlets.100% truth.

AllHailEli
07-10-2013, 09:37 PM
i say this because we arent like other teams that invest so heavily into the QB position that all the other positions go ignored.

You can say that again. Remember the days of Kent Graham, Dave Brown and Danny Kanell? Geez, we should try never to go through that again and definitely invest some moula on a franchise QB.

Buddy333
07-10-2013, 09:52 PM
Didn't Eli only count like $10m against the cap last year? That's Alex Smith money. So, if you want to talk about getting what you pay for........And let's also not lose sight of the fact that Eli's "bad" year is a good number of QBs' very good year.Again, think the point was that he didn't play like a top QB last year. His numbers where average.

Rudyy
07-10-2013, 09:53 PM
dunno hillary clinton muy buenoLOL WHAT?

Drez
07-10-2013, 09:58 PM
kinda the point i was trying to get at.Please don't act like Eli isn't making a pretty penny. His average salary (which ignores the rather high cap hits due over the next few years due to restructuring) is still $15m, which was exceptional when he signed his deal. Sure, now it doesn't seem that much, but if Eli were to ink a new deal today and get every cent he could, he'd probably be in the Brees/Rodgers/Flacco stratosphere.

Drez
07-10-2013, 09:58 PM
LOL WHAT?I guess he likes dudes, lol.

Drez
07-10-2013, 09:59 PM
Again, think the point was that he didn't play like a top QB last year. His numbers where average.His numbers were better than average, just not good for him. Nearly 4k yards and 27 TDs by 2/3s of the leagues is considered a very good year. Even with 15 ints.

Buddy333
07-10-2013, 10:02 PM
His numbers were better than average, just not good for him. Nearly 4k yards and 27 TDs by 2/3s of the leagues is considered a very good year. Even with 15 ints.His numbers where not top ten last year. He had an ok year with stats. He didn't have a great year. There where like three games he started with multiple interception in the first half. He went some really long streak without throwing a TD pass.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 10:20 PM
he went 3 games w/o throwing a TD, and he still WAS top 10 most the stats. havent checked his exact rankings tho.

i do it too, fall victim to recent history and forget the past. people seem to forget how much eli was killing it those first 6 games. After that SF blow out win, he really was being discussed as a league MVP candidate.

that 3 game stretch was brutal. but, he finished the season stron too. i wouldnt say he had a great year, but i wouldnt say he had a poor or even avg year. he had a very ppor stretch of games, aside from that, eli played at a very high level, imo.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 10:22 PM
His numbers were better than average, just not good for him. Nearly 4k yards and 27 TDs by 2/3s of the leagues is considered a very good year. Even with 15 ints.yup. there are really only 3 or 4 qbs who consistently put up better #s than that and they're all considered elite with eli. the reason why it seems eli had an off year is bc his prior level of play was so dang high.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 10:24 PM
Please don't act like Eli isn't making a pretty penny. His average salary (which ignores the rather high cap hits due over the next few years due to restructuring) is still $15m, which was exceptional when he signed his deal. Sure, now it doesn't seem that much, but if Eli were to ink a new deal today and get every cent he could, he'd probably be in the Brees/Rodgers/Flacco stratosphere.im not disputing that. dunno ur reason for making this post, i agree. im just saying, in terms of guaranteed money, we are getting a fair deal imo.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 10:25 PM
"playing like crap" is open to interpretation and is just someone's opinion.

The level that the flame arguments get to on here is clearly more than the result of some people constructively critiquing a few games.nicely said imo.

Rudyy
07-10-2013, 10:25 PM
2013 will be Eli's best year yet, I promise you.

Buddy333
07-10-2013, 10:35 PM
His numbers where not bad, but he wasn't a top ten in most categories last year. See, that's not bashing him, he just didn't have a great year last year.

GameTime
07-10-2013, 10:36 PM
2013 will be Eli's best year yet, I promise you.

hope so.......gettiing pumped up for a better season than last for sure,.......

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 11:07 PM
His numbers where not bad, but he wasn't a top ten in most categories last year. See, that's not bashing him, he just didn't have a great year last year.im not claimg ur bashing him but i've only been here a page or two lol jk.

i respect thatPOV i just disagree. well actually I agree, I dont think he had a great year either. certain streaks were certainly great. but also some pretty horrible streaks as well. i def. dont consider it an avg season league wide tho, it may have been avg for Eli, but that just speaks to the skill he has. bc his avg yr is still top 10 across the board....

Flip Empty
07-10-2013, 11:15 PM
im not claimg ur bashing him but i've only been here a page or two lol jk.

i respect thatPOV i just disagree. well actually I agree, I dont think he had a great year either. certain streaks were certainly great. but also some pretty horrible streaks as well. i def. dont consider it an avg season league wide tho, it may have been avg for Eli, but that just speaks to the skill he has. bc his avg yr is still top 10 across the board....

His total is buoyed by that week 17 game. Remove those five TDs and his numbers are quite depressing.

Drez
07-10-2013, 11:24 PM
His total is buoyed by that week 17 game. Remove those five TDs and his numbers are quite depressing.That is a ****ing stupid argument.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 11:33 PM
His total is buoyed by that week 17 game. Remove those five TDs and his numbers are quite depressing.his totals buoyed those 3 games the entire offense sucked something awful.remove those 3 games and his numbers are top of the line...

if u can remove something i should be able to too :)

Flip Empty
07-10-2013, 11:55 PM
his totals buoyed those 3 games the entire offense sucked something awful.remove those 3 games and his numbers are top of the line...

if u can remove something i should be able to too :)
The week 17 game was pointless for both camps, the other ones weren't.

Rudyy
07-11-2013, 12:12 AM
The week 17 game was pointless for both camps, the other ones weren't.It actually was kind of important. If we don't win that game, we don't make the playoffs. I know we didn't make it anyway, and we made it extremely hard on ourselves, but we made the best with what we could control.

speedman
07-11-2013, 12:15 AM
The devil is hot! Szzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.Why is it the conservative women on TV are attractive and the liberals, not so much? The conservative women need to be attractive because they have **** for brains.

Flip Empty
07-11-2013, 12:30 AM
It actually was kind of important. If we don't win that game, we don't make the playoffs. I know we didn't make it anyway, and we made it extremely hard on ourselves, but we made the best with what we could control.
True, although the Giants also required the Lions to beat the Bears.

Still, I don't see that game as being competitive, which is why I tend to ignore whatever happened in it. The Eagles were dead-and-buried.

giantsfan420
07-11-2013, 12:48 AM
thats not all that true either. a ton of guys were playing for their job, and a bunch of that teams leaders went even further and went on the line for reid. philly wasnt takin the game lightly leading up to the kickoff. they were talkin about how they had 1 shot to show/play for reid and that he wasnt the problem but the players were, which they planned to resolve by having a clean, winning game.

it was only a laugher after it became clear eli n co were putting up 50 one way or the other.

Die-Hard
07-11-2013, 05:22 AM
The devil is hot! Szzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Why is it the conservative women on TV are attractive and the liberals, not so much?

Mentioning politics on these boards is right up there with going around the profanity filter. It'll get you gone.

Please steer clear of that stuff. Thanks.

Buddy333
07-11-2013, 08:34 AM
He finished 14th in QBR. Think 11 guys threw for more yards. At least 14 starters had less interceptions. Tied for 9th in TD passes. About half the starters last year had a better completion percentage. His number where really nothing special last year.

onlineprof
07-11-2013, 08:59 AM
But, i disagree that there is a Con Eli camp, because no one that's a Giants fan wants him to fail. However, there is a Con Pro-Eli camp.
LOVE the con-pro eli camp (CPEC) expression! When I read these Eli threads, I often wonder if there is this much disagreement about the Qbs on other teams, on other fan boards. [Remove the Cowboys, because, living in Texas as I do, I know there are con-Romo camps]. But otherwise, is this normal -- to be so at odds regarding our Qb, or is he simply a polarizing figure? Is this the norm for other teams - say the Packers? Or do we just want him to be somehow different or more than what he is?

Delicreep
07-11-2013, 09:09 AM
Yeah but that's okay, Ann Coulter just PM'ed me.

I went to Cornell with her.

Of course, at the time, she was still living as a man.

gumby74
07-11-2013, 10:26 AM
The conversation that I was having with another poster was who needed to step up. Then you came in and brought up cap hit. So cap hit had nothing to do with my previous conversation. Were you trying to imply that we should have a less expensive QB? If yes then just say we should get rid of Eli and get a cheaper QB so we can spend money on other players. Everyone understands the cap issues. It was silly to bring cap hit into that conversation.

To take the entire chain and put it into one sentence, if you're looking for people to step up, it should be the people are paid the most.