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View Full Version : Amani Toomer believes Nicks is the more valuable receiver.



Rudyy
07-09-2013, 09:42 AM
http://sulia.com/channel/new-york-giants/f/1dc02466-0f97-4e40-b661-bf6cfc8585be/?source=twitter

gumby74
07-09-2013, 09:45 AM
Agree with "valuable"

YATittle1962
07-09-2013, 09:49 AM
...but is he the more durable receiver

sure he is valuable on paper....but if he cannot be durable that value drops immensely

gumby74
07-09-2013, 09:50 AM
...but is he the more durable receiver

sure he is valuable on paper....but if he cannot be durable that value drops immensely That's the big ? isn't it ...

Moke
07-09-2013, 09:52 AM
...but is he the more durable receiver

sure he is valuable on paper....but if he cannot be durable that value drops immensely

This, but then again... we don't know how durable Cruz is yet.

ShineOnForever
07-09-2013, 09:59 AM
im not disagreeing with amani but its hard to take anything he has to say seriously.. im not really sure how he has a broadcast career. the dude is terrible

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 10:05 AM
This, but then again... we don't know how durable Cruz is yet.

One significant injury and Cruz will probably miss more total games than Nicks has (yes I'm counting Cruz's IR - it was a real injury even if he probably should have only missed 4 weeks)

There was the Ryan Clark hit that brought Cruz back to earth for a while, and there were at least 2 times last season where Cruz came down funny grabbing his leg on non-contact plays. To think he wont get hurt at some point is foolish, but for his sake he's protected now - good for him.

GameTime
07-09-2013, 10:07 AM
One significant injury and Cruz will probably miss more total games than Nicks has (yes I'm counting Cruz's IR - it was a real injury even if he probably should have only missed 4 weeks)

There was the Ryan Clark hit that brought Cruz back to earth for a while, and there were at least 2 times last season where Cruz came down funny grabbing his leg on non-contact plays. To think he wont get hurt at some point is foolish, but for his sake he's protected now - good for him.
and you say Cruz will miss more games then Nick's IF he gets hurt how...????

I dont get your theory at all.....

TCHOF
07-09-2013, 10:11 AM
Last week Toomer said on Sirius that the reason why the Giants weren't stepping up to pay Cruz is that they still look at him like he's an undrafted FA and can't believe that he's worth that kind of money.

After that, I stopped listening to him.

Kruunch
07-09-2013, 10:15 AM
One significant injury and Cruz will probably miss more total games than Nicks has (yes I'm counting Cruz's IR - it was a real injury even if he probably should have only missed 4 weeks)

There was the Ryan Clark hit that brought Cruz back to earth for a while, and there were at least 2 times last season where Cruz came down funny grabbing his leg on non-contact plays. To think he wont get hurt at some point is foolish, but for his sake he's protected now - good for him.

You're insane.

Cruz got crushed repeatedly last year and didn't miss a beat. And the IR you mentioned was for roster room. He intended to play the week they put him on IR (the interview with him regarding that was fairly comical in fact).

Conversely, Nicks can't walk to the bathroom without getting a leg injury.

P.S. - I loved Amani when he was on the Giants, but he's an awful analyst.

nhpgiantsfan
07-09-2013, 10:28 AM
One significant injury and Cruz will probably miss more total games than Nicks has (yes I'm counting Cruz's IR - it was a real injury even if he probably should have only missed 4 weeks)

There was the Ryan Clark hit that brought Cruz back to earth for a while, and there were at least 2 times last season where Cruz came down funny grabbing his leg on non-contact plays. To think he wont get hurt at some point is foolish, but for his sake he's protected now - good for him.

I am actually a little concerned that the hit from Ryan Clark and the hit from the Cowboy safety one week earlier actually kind of gave him the short arms late in the season last year. Hopefully one has nothing to do with the other, but it seemed to me that towards the end of last year he was a little worried about getting popped.

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 10:29 AM
You're insane.

Cruz got crushed repeatedly last year and didn't miss a beat. And the IR you mentioned was for roster room. He intended to play the week they put him on IR (the interview with him regarding that was fairly comical in fact).

Conversely, Nicks can't walk to the bathroom without getting a leg injury.

P.S. - I loved Amani when he was on the Giants, but he's an awful analyst.

Cruz didn't miss a beat? okayyyy... be honest with yourself because its not me you have to convince. Ryan's hit was the beginning of Cruz short arming passes. He was crushed in the ribs in the Steelers game and couldn't physically extend his arms to catch a pass.

Nicks has played in 55 of the 64 games he's been a Giant - Cruz missed 13 on IR, so yes you're right I am crazy, he already HAS missed more games than Nicks in one less season.

But in all seriousness, his IR injury WAS real - it just wasn't worthy of an IR spot and that's why the Giants were investigated. Wasn't it a hammy? So say legitimately that's 4 weeks/games that Cruz really missed compared to Nick's 9. All it will take is one injury and the missed games are practically equal. People talk like Nicks has missed half of the games he could have played in.

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 10:30 AM
I am actually a little concerned that the hit from Ryan Clark and the hit from the Cowboy safety one week earlier actually kind of gave him the short arms late in the season last year. Hopefully one has nothing to do with the other, but it seemed to me that towards the end of last year he was a little worried about getting popped.

And without a real deal in place you cant fault the guy for it, doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

ryan12
07-09-2013, 10:38 AM
when nicks is healthy he is one of the top wr in nfl. runs great routes has great hands. he is my fav player (besides eli) but he cant stay on the field

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 10:39 AM
and you say Cruz will miss more games then Nick's IF he gets hurt how...????

I dont get your theory at all.....

Not to be a wise *** -- but getting hurt...... playing football.

The only theory is that Cruz COULD get hurt, not outside the realm of possibility for any player... what's not a theory is Nicks has missed a total of 9 games out of the 64 he could have played in.

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 10:59 AM
From Shaun O'Hara: http://sulia.com/channel/new-york-giants/f/f016fc5a-445a-4c42-a1cf-c8a718c68d88/?source=twitter

BigBlue1971
07-09-2013, 11:11 AM
i agree with Toomer but everyone knows health is the concern.

im hoping Nicks can stay on the field for a period of time like 16 games + playoffs.

if he can do that he will certainly show his value.

ny06
07-09-2013, 11:15 AM
I hate what the media has turned into. The Giants resign a key component to a long term deal, and what are people talking about? Hakeem Nicks...

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 11:16 AM
I hate what the media has turned into. The Giants resign a key component to a long term deal, and what are people talking about? Hakeem Nicks...

Well its a done deal - kind of like when you finish working on something on your house, the next job on the to-do list sticks out like a sore thumb :)

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 11:21 AM
...but is he the more durable receiver

sure he is valuable on paper....but if he cannot be durable that value drops immensely

And is he the most productive which we know has not been the case the past two years. We can attribute some of that to injuries last season.

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 11:21 AM
I hate what the media has turned into. The Giants resign a key component to a long term deal, and what are people talking about? Hakeem Nicks...

What were you expecting?

ny06
07-09-2013, 11:24 AM
What were you expecting?
Maybe a day or two to reflect on a young player being resigned long term. It was almost like a fart in the wind and on to the next discussion.

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 11:28 AM
Cruz didn't miss a beat? okayyyy... be honest with yourself because its not me you have to convince. Ryan's hit was the beginning of Cruz short arming passes. He was crushed in the ribs in the Steelers game and couldn't physically extend his arms to catch a pass.

Nicks has played in 55 of the 64 games he's been a Giant - Cruz missed 13 on IR, so yes you're right I am crazy, he already HAS missed more games than Nicks in one less season.

But in all seriousness, his IR injury WAS real - it just wasn't worthy of an IR spot and that's why the Giants were investigated. Wasn't it a hammy? So say legitimately that's 4 weeks/games that Cruz really missed compared to Nick's 9. All it will take is one injury and the missed games are practically equal. People talk like Nicks has missed half of the games he could have played in.


I think you will find that Cruz's problem with drops date back to UMass. He attributes it to his lack of concentration

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 11:31 AM
Maybe a day or two to reflect on a young player being resigned long term. It was almost like a fart in the wind and on to the next discussion.

Some members seem to have lost faith in Victor during his contract negotiations, relegating to "diva", "greedy", and "not a good teammate" status. It's not likely they have changed their minds just because the contract is now a done deal.

Flip Empty
07-09-2013, 11:33 AM
I hate what the media has turned into. The Giants resign a key component to a long term deal, and what are people talking about? Hakeem Nicks...

They exist to make money. One story ends, another begins.

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 11:33 AM
I think you will find that Cruz's problem with drops date back to UMass. He attributes it to his lack of concentration

I wasn't even referring to drops - but yeah you can see it, many of his drops were him looking up field before securing the ball. I think he's even been quoted as saying he knows and sometimes intentionally to try to be a step ahead of the defender.

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 11:36 AM
Maybe a day or two to reflect on a young player being resigned long term. It was almost like a fart in the wind and on to the next discussion.

Well Nicks is just the next thing to take care of - its completely relevant and all I'm hearing is discussion of Cruz's deal first.

What's completely uncalled for though is I'm listening to 2 talking heads who are affirming each other's belief that Nick's contract "situation" is something they can see "getting to him" and affecting his play this season... offering no substance as to why, just that it will.

ShineOnForever
07-09-2013, 11:42 AM
the crazy thing is nicks never missed a game at UNC.. we all know he's a beast when healthy but he's gotta prove that before he gets paid

Kruunch
07-09-2013, 11:45 AM
so yes you're right I am crazy,

Good, we're all agreed. :cool:

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 11:47 AM
Well Nicks is just the next thing to take care of - its completely relevant and all I'm hearing is discussion of Cruz's deal first. What's completely uncalled for though is I'm listening to 2 talking heads who are affirming each other's belief that Nick's contract "situation" is something they can see "getting to him" and affecting his play this season... offering no substance as to why, just that it will.That wouldn't make sense at all. He wants to get paid, and one would expect for him to have a magnificent season. Not sure how it would negatively (I'm assuming) affect his play...

dezzzR
07-09-2013, 11:52 AM
Well Nicks is just the next thing to take care of - its completely relevant and all I'm hearing is discussion of Cruz's deal first.

What's completely uncalled for though is I'm listening to 2 talking heads who are affirming each other's belief that Nick's contract "situation" is something they can see "getting to him" and affecting his play this season... offering no substance as to why, just that it will.Well from what I understand Cruz will be getting his +2 million in tender this year. So its not like Cruz is going to be rolling up to Giants Stadium in a different Lambo every week just yet. Bunch of idiots.

MattMeyerBud
07-09-2013, 12:28 PM
Agree with "valuable"

I disagree

I think hes better, but not as valuable seeing as how he is going to cost more and there are a lot more receivers of his ilk than there is of Cruz's

not to mention durability forces a hit on value

MattMeyerBud
07-09-2013, 12:30 PM
Some members seem to have lost faith in Victor during his contract negotiations, relegating to "diva", "greedy", and "not a good teammate" status. It's not likely they have changed their minds just because the contract is now a done deal.

some people don't know their *** from their elbow

giantscolombia
07-09-2013, 12:38 PM
You're insane.

Cruz got crushed repeatedly last year and didn't miss a beat. And the IR you mentioned was for roster room. He intended to play the week they put him on IR (the interview with him regarding that was fairly comical in fact).

Conversely, Nicks can't walk to the bathroom without getting a leg injury.

P.S. - I loved Amani when he was on the Giants, but he's an awful analyst.

ahhahahah

I agree with you, Dude. Amani was humble and a beast when he was with us. As an analyst, it seems like he just wants to stir the pot. He's a couple steps from Harooni's boy Tiki.

Buddy333
07-09-2013, 12:39 PM
Nicks had a rough year last year but he missed 6 games the 3 prior seasons. Some are acting like he can't stay on the field.

Eliscruzzz
07-09-2013, 12:41 PM
This is one thing I can agree with Amani about.

giantscolombia
07-09-2013, 12:46 PM
This is one thing I can agree with Amani about.
Its obvious though. Right?

I mean Nicks is our number 1 receiver. After all is said and done, Cruz is a slot receiver.

Eliscruzzz
07-09-2013, 12:49 PM
Its obvious though. Right?

I mean Nicks is our number 1 receiver. After all is said and done, Cruz is a slot receiver.This is true but I also but Cruz is valuable to this team too. The guy is a third down machine when his head is in just playing football.

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 12:51 PM
Its obvious though. Right?

I mean Nicks is our number 1 receiver. After all is said and done, Cruz is a slot receiver.

The team sees Cruz as a slot receiver plus. As for whose # 1 or # 6 has never made sense to me. Is the # 1 receiver supposed to be the top producer?

Buddy333
07-09-2013, 12:51 PM
How about they compliment each other?

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 12:51 PM
some people don't know their *** from their elbow

We don't have the time .......:rolleyes:

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 12:54 PM
I wasn't even referring to drops - but yeah you can see it, many of his drops were him looking up field before securing the ball. I think he's even been quoted as saying he knows and sometimes intentionally to try to be a step ahead of the defender.

You're right, he has. Most of the time it works to his advantage in terms of elusiveness but sometimes it's a drop.

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 12:56 PM
I wasn't even referring to drops - but yeah you can see it, many of his drops were him looking up field before securing the ball. I think he's even been quoted as saying he knows and sometimes intentionally to try to be a step ahead of the defender.

Doesn't "short arming" = drops?

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 01:00 PM
Doesn't "short arming" = drops?

I could be completely wrong, but Ive always used "short arming" to describe when a receiver going over the middle, and doesn't extend out fully for the pass because its clear he'll pay for it from the defender. I think that's the accepted term for what im describing :)

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 01:12 PM
I could be completely wrong, but Ive always used "short arming" to describe when a receiver going over the middle, and doesn't extend out fully for the pass because its clear he'll pay for it from the defender. I think that's the accepted term for what im describing :)

Could be

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 01:14 PM
The team sees Cruz as a slot receiver plus. As for whose # 1 or # 6 has never made sense to me. Is the # 1 receiver supposed to be the top producer?Even if Nicks wasn't a top producer, he's still number 1 because he's the better receiver. In 2011, Cruz had better stats, but Nicks was doubled more times than Cruz.

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 01:15 PM
Even if Nicks wasn't a top producer, he's still number 1 because he's the better receiver. In 2011, Cruz had better stats, but Nicks was doubled more times than Cruz.

Didn't we already disagree about this? lol

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 01:15 PM
You can make the case that Nicks helps Cruz production as he is more times than not double covered allowing Cruz to get those huge stats.

giantscolombia
07-09-2013, 01:16 PM
The team sees Cruz as a slot receiver plus. As for whose # 1 or # 6 has never made sense to me. Is the # 1 receiver supposed to be the top producer?
The #1 is the one who should demand the most respect from opposing defenses... I guess in my book, the #1 should be able to beat 2x teams and if left on an island should be able to destroy any corner continuously. In our case, that would be Nicks. I'm not trying to take anything away from Cruz but Hakeem Nicks fits the definition of our number one receiver...

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 01:17 PM
Didn't we already disagree about this? lolYes, now disagree again!

TheAnalyst
07-09-2013, 01:25 PM
Toomer also said Romo is a better QB then Eli....

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 01:27 PM
You can make the case that Nicks helps Cruz production as he is more times than not double covered allowing Cruz to get those huge stats.

I have made that case

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 01:29 PM
Toomer also said Romo is a better QB then Eli....

He's right when we agree and wrong when we don't :)

NYGabriel
07-09-2013, 01:30 PM
Toomer is a windbag.

giantscolombia
07-09-2013, 02:08 PM
Toomer also said Romo is a better QB then Eli....
haha exactly, Toomer is a step from being the next Tiki.

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 02:43 PM
He's right when we agree and wrong when we don't :)

Well.... yeah.

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 02:48 PM
I have made that caseI was speaking to the general population.

NYGinIN666
07-09-2013, 02:52 PM
I wouldn't say one is more valuable than the other; they're valuable in different ways. Have Nicks line up in the slot and see what happens (I'm sure he'd produce but not at the level Cruz does). They make each other better and make each other valuable.

giantscolombia
07-09-2013, 02:55 PM
I was speaking to the general population.
lol

OX1
07-09-2013, 03:17 PM
and you say Cruz will miss more games then Nick's IF he gets hurt how...????

I dont get your theory at all.....

Concussion. He was already hammered several times last year.

GameTime
07-09-2013, 03:23 PM
Concussion. He was already hammered several times last year.

did he have a concussion?? did he miss any games after his IR'd rook season?? I believe the IRd him because he was raw and they didnt want to risk him on the PS......

Kruunch
07-09-2013, 03:26 PM
I disagree

I think hes better, but not as valuable seeing as how he is going to cost more and there are a lot more receivers of his ilk than there is of Cruz's

not to mention durability forces a hit on value

Kind of my thinking as well (although I'd disagree about the more receivers part).

Redeyejedi
07-09-2013, 03:27 PM
You're insane.

Cruz got crushed repeatedly last year and didn't miss a beat. And the IR you mentioned was for roster room. He intended to play the week they put him on IR (the interview with him regarding that was fairly comical in fact).

Conversely, Nicks can't walk to the bathroom without getting a leg injury.

P.S. - I loved Amani when he was on the Giants, but he's an awful analyst.
Cruz does a good job avoiding direct hits. He shys away from contact at times costing receptions but in the big picture its probably a good idea

Kruunch
07-09-2013, 03:35 PM
Cruz does a good job avoiding direct hits. He shys away from contact at times costing receptions but in the big picture its probably a good idea

Yeah I'll take a few extra drops a season and a healthy receiver, versus the heroic catch in week 3 and a trip to the IR any day.

To the point of the OP: I don't think either receiver is quite as productive without the other. But I certainly think Cruz is more reliable.

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 03:40 PM
Yeah I'll take a few extra drops a season and a healthy receiver, versus the heroic catch in week 3 and a trip to the IR any day.To the point of the OP: I don't think either receiver is quite as productive without the other. But I certainly think Cruz is more reliable.But of course.

Diamondring
07-09-2013, 03:56 PM
when nicks is healthy he is one of the top wr in nfl. runs great routes has great hands. he is my fav player (besides eli) but he cant stay on the fieldYou guys act like the man be missing a load full of games every year.

Buddy333
07-09-2013, 04:05 PM
Right, he missed 6 games the first 3 seasons, most of those to odd injuries. Last year was tough.

giantsfan420
07-09-2013, 04:11 PM
yeah it was tough. i honestly didnt even realize the difference in play until i watched a compilation of nicks play during the 6 game streak to sb 46. that 2011 nicks looks like 10x the player 2012 nicks was. he had no explosion in his step 2012. its so obvious when u see his 2011 play. and a lot of his success is due to him being crafty and picking the exact right time to hit the nos booster.

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 04:18 PM
If Nicks stays healthy this year, and plays the way he does when healthy, he deserves a big pay day. Maybe more than Cruz.

Buddy333
07-09-2013, 04:20 PM
If Nicks stays healthy this year, and plays the way he does when healthy, he deserves a big pay day. Maybe more than Cruz.Think he gets it from another team especially if Randle plays well this year.

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 04:21 PM
Think he gets it from another team especially if Randle plays well this year.I don't think so. I think the Giants want him here. As long as he's not asking for a super ridiculous amount. The FO knows how to get deals done.

Buddy333
07-09-2013, 04:30 PM
I don't think so. I think the Giants want him here. As long as he's not asking for a super ridiculous amount. The FO knows how to get deals done.If he has a good season what would be his asking price? Say maybe $10 million a year? So add Eli, Cruz, and Manning together and that would be a lot of cap space. Then they have to pay JPP.

Rudyy
07-09-2013, 04:40 PM
If he has a good season what would be his asking price? Say maybe $10 million a year? So add Eli, Cruz, and Manning together and that would be a lot of cap space. Then they have to pay JPP.Well Cruz was reportedly seeking that much, perhaps $11 million, but in the end, he and the Giants got a fair deal. I think the Giants will work with Hakeem and vice versa. Nothing is certain and a lot depends on his health, production, and RR possibly. I think the cap will look better in 2014. So I'm confident the Giants can keep Hakeem, as well as JPP.

Buddy333
07-09-2013, 04:48 PM
The cap is supposed to look a lot better but don't forget they have to worry about JP and in a year or two Prince. Then Randle a year or two later. Think they want to keep him, but depending on what he is asking for. If there is another team with cap space and need s #1 he could be gone.

TCHOF
07-09-2013, 04:54 PM
Well Cruz was reportedly seeking that much, perhaps $11 million, but in the end, he and the Giants got a fair deal. I think the Giants will work with Hakeem and vice versa. Nothing is certain and a lot depends on his health, production, and RR possibly. I think the cap will look better in 2014. So I'm confident the Giants can keep Hakeem, as well as JPP.

The difference being, though, that Nicks wil be in a much better bargaining position than Cruz since he will not be a restricted FA.

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 05:24 PM
did he have a concussion?? did he miss any games after his IR'd rook season?? I believe the IRd him because he was raw and they didnt want to risk him on the PS......

He had a legit hammy - probably not worthy of an IR but it worked out for what the Giants wanted to do.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/10/nfl_upholds_giants_placing_wid.html

GameTime
07-09-2013, 06:02 PM
He had a legit hammy - probably not worthy of an IR but it worked out for what the Giants wanted to do.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/10/nfl_upholds_giants_placing_wid.html
I know that. But how does that relate to what you said earlier about Cruz will take a extended period of time off "when" he gets hurt. He has been solid the last two seasons. health wise.

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 06:09 PM
I know that. But how does that relate to what you said earlier about Cruz will take a extended period of time off "when" he gets hurt. He has been solid the last two seasons. health wise.

I didn't say anything about an extended period of time - just think its a good possibility that he (or any NFL player for that matter) will get hurt at some point in their career.

GameTime
07-09-2013, 06:20 PM
One significant injury and Cruz will probably miss more total games than Nicks has (yes I'm counting Cruz's IR - it was a real injury even if he probably should have only missed 4 weeks)

There was the Ryan Clark hit that brought Cruz back to earth for a while, and there were at least 2 times last season where Cruz came down funny grabbing his leg on non-contact plays. To think he wont get hurt at some point is foolish, but for his sake he's protected now - good for him.


I didn't say anything about an extended period of time - just think its a good possibility that he (or any NFL player for that matter) will get hurt at some point in their career.

still dont know how you come up with this statment. Not argueing with you at all. Its just such a wild *** guess.

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 07:33 PM
Yes, now disagree again!

You can just assume :rolleyes:

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 07:35 PM
Well Cruz was reportedly seeking that much, perhaps $11 million, but in the end, he and the Giants got a fair deal. I think the Giants will work with Hakeem and vice versa. Nothing is certain and a lot depends on his health, production, and RR possibly. I think the cap will look better in 2014. So I'm confident the Giants can keep Hakeem, as well as JPP.

+1

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 08:13 PM
still dont know how you come up with this statment. Not argueing with you at all. Its just such a wild *** guess.

It was really more of a statement regarding Nicks and the fact that he's played in 55 out of a possible 64 games he's been on the team. With all the "Nicks cant stay healthy/cant get on the field" comments - you would be led to believe that hes missed WAY more than he really has.

So in my very obtuse way I guess I was trying to point out that if Cruz gets injured and misses 6 or so or more games are we going to say he cant stay on the field either?

RoanokeFan
07-09-2013, 08:19 PM
It was really more of a statement regarding Nicks and the fact that he's played in 55 out of a possible 64 games he's been on the team. With all the "Nicks cant stay healthy/cant get on the field" comments - you would be led to believe that hes missed WAY more than he really has.

So in my very obtuse way I guess I was trying to point out that if Cruz gets injured and misses 6 or so or more games are we going to say he cant stay on the field either?


The difference is Nicks hasn't played a full season yet. That isn't to say he won't, but it's illogical to think Reese won't use that during negotiations with Nicks. I don't think anyone has said "he can't stay on the field." He stayed on the field as long as he could last season while battling two injuries.

speedman
07-09-2013, 08:27 PM
If Nicks stays healthy this year, and plays the way he does when healthy, he deserves a big pay day. Maybe more than Cruz. He will get more than Cruz unless he gets a career threatening injury.

OX1
07-09-2013, 08:31 PM
did he have a concussion?? did he miss any games after his IR'd rook season?? I believe the IRd him because he was raw and they didnt want to risk him on the PS......

You asked how he might be hurt and if it happens, that is what I think it will be.
The reason I think there is a better than average chance, has at least part to do with
his success at not being able to be covered.

Defenders get frustrated and go after him for really hard hits (some quasi legal even)
to try and send a message. That and the way he goes out for a route and then comes back
to the ball. I believe that while he beats his man and gets the pass, it leaves him more
vulnerable in that situation vs a slot receiver that catches more passes in stride.

GameTime
07-09-2013, 08:49 PM
It was really more of a statement regarding Nicks and the fact that he's played in 55 out of a possible 64 games he's been on the team. With all the "Nicks cant stay healthy/cant get on the field" comments - you would be led to believe that hes missed WAY more than he really has.

So in my very obtuse way I guess I was trying to point out that if Cruz gets injured and misses 6 or so or more games are we going to say he cant stay on the field either?
nah....not obtuse at all. Nicks may have only missed 9 games but he has played pretty limited in another 5 or 6 I bet.
Either way it makes no dif. Nicks is a great receiver and I am pumped to see him back and at 100%....

GameTime
07-09-2013, 08:54 PM
You asked how he might be hurt and if it happens, that is what I think it will be.
The reason I think there is a better than average chance, has at least part to do with
his success at not being able to be covered.

Defenders get frustrated and go after him for really hard hits (some quasi legal even)
to try and send a message. That and the way he goes out for a route and then comes back
to the ball. I believe that while he beats his man and gets the pass, it leaves him more
vulnerable in that situation vs a slot receiver that catches more passes in stride.
just beign an NFL player gives him an above average chance of getting injured. Most do.
But why speculate on an injury to a guy who has been solid for two seasons???? Anyway....not a big deal just seems odd to me.

Delicreep
07-09-2013, 09:14 PM
The difference is Nicks hasn't played a full season yet. That isn't to say he won't, but it's illogical to think Reese won't use that during negotiations with Nicks. I don't think anyone has said "he can't stay on the field." He stayed on the field as long as he could last season while battling two injuries.

If I were Reese, I would be reluctant to throw out the injury/full season/durability card.

It almost has to come out like a it's a shortcoming or a knock, and it almost gives you nothing in return.

If I were Nick's agent, my first 2 responses would be 1) you want me here because you believe that I can play a season without a serious injury, or we wouldn't be talking or 2) maybe the Chargers will be less worried that past, non career changing injuries are gonna happen in the future.

If it's a concern for Reese, and it should be, the negotiations may be short and unproductive

Ruttiger711
07-09-2013, 10:08 PM
just beign an NFL player gives him an above average chance of getting injured. Most do. But why speculate on an injury to a guy who has been solid for two seasons???? Anyway....not a big deal just seems odd to me.In the same way that players are coached to be more aggressive in stripping the ball with a "fumbler", I think players are going to be coached to try and knock the salsa off of Cruz's chips.

It's all on paper - Cruz took that hit from Clark and those last 8 games he was a shadow of himself. 4-5 catches a game, about 50 or so yards a game and 3 whole TD's in the last 8. That's not anywhere near the Play we all know he's capable of. I think Cruz will be targeted (not necessarily dirty) for the big hits and succeptable to injury because of it.

Then there's the whole fluke factor - I mentioned before there was at least twice this past season Cruz came down after missing a catch, no contact and grabbed at his right leg. Can't help but think of Revis, there's no reason to think he would get injured the way he did but things like that do happen.

Antwuan
07-09-2013, 10:25 PM
Maybe but both are very valuable to the Giants.

dakotajoe
07-09-2013, 10:46 PM
Cruz/Nicks are different types of receivers, both who command double teams and respect. I see them as about equal in value when they're both healthy.

Like someone else said Toomer gave props to Romo over Eli. Interpret that as you wish. O'hara and Mcnabb just had a segment on Cruz being "elite"...got to love that word.

giantsfan420
07-10-2013, 12:50 AM
in a fair world, or i guess fair for the fans lol, nicks would get the same exact deal as cruz. could u imagine if we were able to get both for 6 yrs at 14 mil? that'd be a dream come true and we'd be in a rare situation.

usually, teams have to make a decision at one point between 2 #1 caliber wrs. Last example i can recall being AZ and fitz/boldin. they had to choose fitz and bolden left.

with the timing of when cruz got completed, and the unbelievably team friendly verbiage of the contract, signing nicks long term seems like a sure thing. for me at least. i know, things can look completely different after a week lol. just sayin, how could a nyg fan not be stoked right about now. we looked down the top 3 performing wr the past 2 yrs, no matter how u slice it he put that on the field, and we got him for half what those other top 2 wrs got.

and i think cruzs demands were greatly exaggerated. he seems ecstatic and he signed for basically 7.5 mil or whatever it was per. many here thought he'd hold out for 10.

we just gotta get nicks done before he comes anywhere near free agency.