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View Full Version : Sooooo...why is it we can't run the ball again??



BigBlueOnes
01-03-2012, 12:14 PM
With all the talk of how the Oline is coming together, why can't we get a running game going? Is it KG's predictable playcalling (uh...shotgun draw 341 times a game), we're not good at getting off our blocks, our RB's are not getting it done or what?? I think given everything else, that is right now our biggest concern. We NEED to be able to run that ball and control the clock, and get that play action pass going.

cken
01-03-2012, 12:15 PM
two words. David. Baas.

NYG216
01-03-2012, 12:16 PM
The Oline is not as good this year. With that said, I think I have seen my fair share of shotgun draws. Perhaps something more creative might spark the run game.

MikeIsaGiant
01-03-2012, 12:17 PM
two words. David. Baas.


This, it's quite easy to understand. Take Baas out of the game this Sunday and watch how easily we run the ball

TrueBlue07
01-03-2012, 12:18 PM
two words. David. Baas.


This, it's quite easy to understand. Take Baas out of the game this Sunday and watch how easily we run the ball

Baas is awful in the run game. It's night and day how we run the ball when he isn't in the game.

cken
01-03-2012, 12:19 PM
two words. David. Baas.


This, it's quite easy to understand. Take Baas out of the game this Sunday and watch how easily we run the ball

no need, we have all the tape we need of the O-line giving our backs push when Baas was dealing with the neck and headaches

Denaliman316
01-03-2012, 02:00 PM
He was good SF. Gore gashed people when he was there. It's puzzling.

TroyArcher
01-03-2012, 02:04 PM
two words. David. Baas.</P>


I am not a big fan but thought he played well Sunday night. He is more of a finesse guy. </P>

StarWarsGiant
01-03-2012, 02:07 PM
b/c the coaches dont see what we see. that Boothe pietrus snee Diehl and Mckenzi should be our oline.. Bass looks like a waste of money..

GameTime
01-03-2012, 02:20 PM
they had over 100 yards rushing the last two weeks....so thats good.</P>


the Giants short yardage game has sucked for two seasons now...</P>


</P>

BlueSanta
01-03-2012, 02:26 PM
The oline is good at passblocking. They are not good at runblocking.....that simple

Redeyejedi
01-03-2012, 02:28 PM
they had over 100 yards rushing the last two weeks....so thats good.</P>


the Giants short yardage game has sucked for two seasons now...</P>


*</P>Because there is no element of surprise.They are so deliberate in those situations. They bring in the heavy packages let teams substitute, call TO's ,run the clock down to zero. They are so bad at it its comical.

Redeyejedi
01-03-2012, 02:32 PM
The thing that drives me nuts about the Giants offense is they never have any pace to them.Everything is so slow.Getting out of the huddle is slow,getting the play is slow .The best offenses in the NFL keep the gas pedal down.They attack teams quickly they dont let teams substitute.The make the D play at there pace.

Joe Morrison
01-03-2012, 02:35 PM
they had over 100 yards rushing the last two weeks....so thats good.</P>


the Giants short yardage game has sucked for two seasons now...</P>


</P>


Because there is no element of surprise.They are so deliberate in those situations. They bring in the heavy packages let teams substitute, call TO's ,run the clock down to zero. They are so bad at it its comical.</P>


Someday KG will realize if he goes 4 wide, and I mean 2 left, right outside the hash marks, motion the FB and there will be room to run, the heavy package died with the Packers in 1968.</P>

Kruunch
01-03-2012, 02:50 PM
He was good SF. Gore gashed people when he was there. It's puzzling.

The best the 49ers have been in rushing since 2007 (when he broke the starting lineup) has been 19th (last year).

Last year was his only year at Center prior to coming to the Giants.

Baas has underwhelmed.

Between him and Beatty and our RBs being nicked up this year are the predominant reasons our running game has suffered (imo),

Kruunch
01-03-2012, 02:51 PM
they had over 100 yards rushing the last two weeks....so thats good.</P>


the Giants short yardage game has sucked for two seasons now...</P>


*</P>


Because there is no element of surprise.They are so deliberate in those situations. They bring in the heavy packages let teams substitute, call TO's ,run the clock down to zero. They are so bad at it its comical.</P>


Someday KG will realize if he goes 4 wide, and I mean 2 left, right outside the hash marks, motion the FB and there will be room to run, the heavy package died with the Packers in 1968.</P>

I'm fairly certain KG pouts every time he (or more likely, Eli) calls a run play.

Tony Bruno
01-03-2012, 04:14 PM
Its because we:

pass every 1st down (usually playaction)

run every 2nd down (usually bunch formation)

pass every 3rd down (usually shotgun)

So in essance we call run plays on 2nd down and you wonder why we cant run...

So it

Pass (inc)
run (stuffed)
pass (move the chains)

Then pass
run
pass

mfraykor
01-03-2012, 04:32 PM
IMO... I think our RB's are slow to get off... they don't EXPLODE from the backfield like a RAY RICE... .. seems like it takes a while to get them up to speed.... now this may be b/c the holes are not there... but I just don't see the explosion once they get the ball....

dave56dj
01-03-2012, 04:34 PM
Why can't we run - lets break it down starting with the guys up front -

Diehl - really struggled at his original position of left guard which he hadn't played in many years. Just looked like he had trouble getting staying low and now may be best suited for left tackle or right.

Mckenzie - His age has caught up to him for sure. He can still maul you if he can get his hands on you but he has struggled with footwork mightily this season - a sign of age.

Beatty - Showed some nice promise as a pass blocker but was not getting a great push in the run game - young enough where that may still come to him.

Baas - Please read Patricia Traina's blog (Train a thought) she is a reporter on the inside and has stated Baas is playing at around 50/60 percent. I think baas will be much better come next year but right now he is struggling in the run game and doing nicely in the pass protection. His snapping ability and his getting the lines calls out is what keeps him playing ahead of Boothe at center.

Boothe - Man has this guy been a blessing. He stepped in admirably for Baas but his snaps are scary and this is why Coughlin (who preaches ball control all day every day - 4 clean games this year 4-0 in those games) will not move him back to center. But as a guard he gets a nice push and has done a nice job.

Petrus - MAULER in the run game - had trouble in pass protection. Most of the gmen lineman have been the complete opposite. But we ran better with petrus in there but there isn't much room for him unless boothe had been a natural center. also in the end of the day as important as the run game is nothing is more important then keeping 10 on his feet in this pass happy league. I think Petrus can be a very important part of our future at oline - he is a very strong guy with a fierce mentality - reminds me a little of Seubert.

Snee - Not his best year but really has picked up slack for the older vet on his right and the younger injured player on his left. He can still get it done - but has had a bit of a snowball affect making up for others.

All in all its a patchwork vet line that pass protects well adn communicates nicely but does not get a great push in the run game.

AB - In my opinion a very good running back who RUNS VERY HARD but has had many injury issues and done an amazing job playing through. At times he has lost confidence it the oline and has bounced runs too different holes or outside - not atypicla of a cut back runner but sometimes you have to stick with it - and he has done that since coming back from the ankle injury.

Jacobs - He is a bruiser but like all bruisers he needs a hole - or a small gap - he wont make guys who are penetrating miss much - so this line has not been his best friend. But if he gets going make no mistake he will still truck you and still has fire in the tank.

Ware - Kind of your typical third back - a little shifty a little speed a little power - nothing special but can carry the ball 4-5 times a game and has picked up shotgun blitzes well.

THE OLINE needs some change but there are still some pieces there. I wouldn't be suprised if the giants go back in the 4th ot 5th round this year and fill Oline through FA or if there is a BPA early.

OsiStrahan#1combo
01-03-2012, 04:35 PM
two words. David. Baas.


This, it's quite easy to understand. Take Baas out of the game this Sunday and watch how easily we run the ball

Baas is awful in the run game.* It's night and day how we run the ball when he isn't in the game.


how do you guys KNOW that Baas is bad in the run game? what are you seeing that im not seeing?

oldgiantfan
01-03-2012, 04:46 PM
The thing that drives me nuts about the Giants offense is they never have any pace to them.Everything is so slow.Getting out of the huddle is slow,getting the play is slow .The best offenses in the NFL keep the gas pedal down.They attack teams quickly they dont let teams substitute.The make the D play at there pace.

Ditto on that. They also never rush to the line and get a play off when there's a chance of a red flag challenge

dave56dj
01-03-2012, 04:48 PM
Interesting you mention the best Offenses in the NFL - you do realize we are the 8th overall offense in the league.

Is it me or will fans complain about anything.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2012, 04:51 PM
Interesting you mention the best Offenses in the NFL - you do realize we are the 8th overall offense in the league.

<font color="#0000FF">Is it me or will fans complain about anything.</font>

Is that rhetorical?

EJ Blue
01-03-2012, 04:56 PM
two words. David. Baas.+1

dave56dj
01-03-2012, 04:58 PM
Well roanoke youve been here for a while so you and you alone can answer.

giantsfan420
01-03-2012, 05:01 PM
i actually think that vs atlanta we're going to have a big game running.

atlanta doesnt have great secondary players/play. i feel they will study the tape and see that the giants are a very dangerous passing team, and will try to build there gameplan to stop us through the air.

i expect a reverse from what we've seen throughout this season. opposing coaches saw the 25 int stat and assumed "hey take away the run, we have a great shot at winning." and that led to almost 5000 yards later and a playoff birth.
now teams will, imo, go "we cant let eli beat us, we'll have to try and make them beat us on the ground."

as long as KG doesnt call a stinker and we don't get behind early, i expect longer, methodical drives.

and it couldnt come at a better time. watch. i predict we win this game by 10 points bc we will control the clock get an early lead, and use jacobs/bradshaw who are relatively fresh as both havent played near a full season and even in the games they did play they werent used much at all. i expect a serious run in the playoffs for this very reason.

the good run game will keep our d fresher, and they'll make more plays on the ball as teams like Atlanta, GB and SF will fall behind and completely abandon their gameplans which will allow our dl to tee off.

at least thats how i would begin my approach to formulating an offensive gameplan if i was kg

C1010
01-03-2012, 05:02 PM
Why can't we run - lets break it down starting with the guys up front -

Diehl - really struggled at his original position of left guard which he hadn't played in many years. Just looked like he had trouble getting staying low and now may be best suited for left tackle or right.

Mckenzie - His age has caught up to him for sure. He can still maul you if he can get his hands on you but he has struggled with footwork mightily this season - a sign of age.

Beatty - Showed some nice promise as a pass blocker but was not getting a great push in the run game - young enough where that may still come to him.

Baas - Please read Patricia Traina's blog (Train a thought) she is a reporter on the inside and has stated Baas is playing at around 50/60 percent. I think baas will be much better come next year but right now he is struggling in the run game and doing nicely in the pass protection. His snapping ability and his getting the lines calls out is what keeps him playing ahead of Boothe at center.

Boothe - Man has this guy been a blessing. He stepped in admirably for Baas but his snaps are scary and this is why Coughlin (who preaches ball control all day every day - 4 clean games this year 4-0 in those games) will not move him back to center. But as a guard he gets a nice push and has done a nice job.

Petrus - MAULER in the run game - had trouble in pass protection. Most of the gmen lineman have been the complete opposite. But we ran better with petrus in there but there isn't much room for him unless boothe had been a natural center. also in the end of the day as important as the run game is nothing is more important then keeping 10 on his feet in this pass happy league. I think Petrus can be a very important part of our future at oline - he is a very strong guy with a fierce mentality - reminds me a little of Seubert.

Snee - Not his best year but really has picked up slack for the older vet on his right and the younger injured player on his left. He can still get it done - but has had a bit of a snowball affect making up for others.

All in all its a patchwork vet line that pass protects well adn communicates nicely but does not get a great push in the run game.

AB - In my opinion a very good running back who RUNS VERY HARD but has had many injury issues and done an amazing job playing through. At times he has lost confidence it the oline and has bounced runs too different holes or outside - not atypicla of a cut back runner but sometimes you have to stick with it - and he has done that since coming back from the ankle injury.

Jacobs - He is a bruiser but like all bruisers he needs a hole - or a small gap - he wont make guys who are penetrating miss much - so this line has not been his best friend. But if he gets going make no mistake he will still truck you and still has fire in the tank.

Ware - Kind of your typical third back - a little shifty a little speed a little power - nothing special but can carry the ball 4-5 times a game and has picked up shotgun blitzes well.

THE OLINE needs some change but there are still some pieces there. I wouldn't be suprised if the giants go back in the 4th ot 5th round this year and fill Oline through FA or if there is a BPA early.

Very good analysis right there and said pretty much everything I would. I feel like Brewer may eventually take K Mac's spot though.

T.Rice57
01-03-2012, 05:21 PM
With all the talk of how the Oline is coming together, why can't we get a running game going? Is it KG's predictable playcalling (uh...shotgun draw 341 times a game), we're not good at getting off our blocks, our RB's are not getting it done or what?? I think given everything else, that is right now our biggest concern. We NEED to be able to run that ball and control the clock, and get that play action pass going.

Our line has been over-rated in run blocking, particularly in short yardage situations, for 2-3 years. This year it's become more than evident.

I hope we land a proven Tackle this offseason, and draft a Guard/Center that is a mauler. OL should be our priority this offseason along with LB. I'd be happy if that's all we drafted.

scf424
01-03-2012, 05:31 PM
We're predictable. Look, everyone knows when we come out in shotgun on 1st and 10, its a draw. We need to run more play action out of the obvious run spots. The pass game is working, why not throw some wrinkles?

Run the ball under center on first down.

Warchild
01-03-2012, 05:41 PM
I'm not buying Baas at 50% thing, if that is true, why is he even playing? He struggled since day one and it hasn't been because of a new system.

Baas is an undersized center, look at him next to the rest of our Oline, he gets pushed around and doesn't have the strength necessary in the run game.

I think we over-valued his skills. Mainly because the rest of SF's Oline are all pro and 1st round draft picks, thus making his job easier at center while at SF.

I'm sure the coaching staff knows how well we ran the ball when he wasn't in the game. However for the $27 million dollar contract he signed there is no way Reese let's Coughlin sit him on the bench.

BigBlueOnes
01-03-2012, 10:50 PM
I remember reading BEFORE the season that Baas was weak in the run game. I'm sure you can search the gazillion threads here and find it, but that's been a recurring theme. Also, I FULLY agree the playcalling is predictable. My brother is a Dallas fan, and we watch games together, he TELLS ME when we're running a shotgun draw and fade in the endzone. He said "Man, you guys have no creativity, huh?" Now, the plan against Dallas was a little better, and there is certainly this great production we have on offense, so this isn't a bash Gilbride thread at all. I posted it asking why the hell we can't run the damn ball, which I think will bite us hard down the stretch. I would love nothing more than to see BJ release the Kraken and get over 100 yards. That is a HUGE game changer.