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Moss#83
01-03-2012, 12:43 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

burier
01-03-2012, 12:48 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>

fansince69
01-03-2012, 12:56 PM
I have always been an Eli supporter ....My biggest point has always been.. even if no one appreciated him now...they would sure miss him when he is gone.For example...Simms was never really welcomed till he won Superbowl...then once gone and we were stuck with Brown Grahm and Kanell..........everyone missed him.

Moss#83
01-03-2012, 12:57 PM
I've read that too. I guess that's a little better than saying we need to trade up to get Luck.

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 01:06 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</p>


</p>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</p>

He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

GameTime
01-03-2012, 01:11 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


In the past and even this year( but in a small way) Eli has always been a very good QB but would showperiodsof making poor decisions. This alone added fuel to the fire of his negative side. Another issue was his aw shucks demeanor which never meant **** to me. </P>


I have always supported Eli but he has had legit things in the past that kept him from being a top tier QB overall. Now he is in the top tier and I hope he stays there until he retires. </P>


</P>

G-Man67
01-03-2012, 01:13 PM
I have always been an Eli supporter ....My biggest point has always been.. even if no one appreciated him now...they would sure miss him when he is gone.For example...Simms was never really welcomed till he won Superbowl...then once gone and we were stuck with Brown Grahm and Kanell..........everyone missed him.


exactly



yeah it's amazing all we heard was Rivers/Merriman ... in fact, this board for years didn't have a day go by without a post about the trade and how we got the short end ... and i'm certain some still think that way and are hoping Eli throws 4 picks and we lose by 20+ to Atlanta ... sadly

TuckYou
01-03-2012, 01:14 PM
Eli is having a career year, but come on, he can't even throw for 5,000 yards!

GameTime
01-03-2012, 01:15 PM
Eli is having a career year, but come on, he can't even throw for 5,000 yards!</P>


he could have but Nicks dropped too many. </P>

bigblue58
01-03-2012, 01:19 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


*</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>

True....despite his career stats saying otherwise, it's amazing how little credit he's gotten in NY.
Eli owns a new NFL record for 4th Quarter Td's, he has an impressive number of 4th qtr comebacks and game tying and winning drives, his stats have gone up exponentially every year he's been in the league, he's a SB MVP winner with a ring, he carried the team this year to keep them within reach of a postseason berth.....on and on and on.
How anyone could look at his body of work and not call him ELITE flies in the face of logic!

GiantPride27
01-03-2012, 01:19 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

eli sucks he only had 4933yards... 29 tds..... 16 ints........ 6 4th quarter comebacks......... set an NFL Record for Pass TDs in the 4th quarter.............. and led a team with a perdictable OC, no run game, and a injury torn Defense to the playoffs......

burier
01-03-2012, 01:23 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>

bigblue58
01-03-2012, 01:31 PM
Eli is having a career year, but come on, he can't even throw for 5,000 yards!

You forgot to put that in red so people would know that you're joking!

MattMeyerBud
01-03-2012, 01:35 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

put it this way: I don't know if they've converted, but the whole TRADE ELI FOR LUCK threads have stopped

bigblue58
01-03-2012, 01:37 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


*</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better.* Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB.* There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year?* I don't.*

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


*</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>

The comments that the guy made about Eli not being as important to the Giants as Brees or Warner were for their teams is probably the single most idiotic remark I've ever read from someone with their own sports column!

burier
01-03-2012, 01:42 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>


The comments that the guy made about Eli not being as important to the Giants as Brees or Warner were for their teams is probably the single most idiotic remark I've ever read from someone with their own sports column!</P>


QuothThe Burier...</P>

nycsportzfan
01-03-2012, 01:43 PM
THe thing is 90pct of these so called Haters are anything but "haters" They simply call ELI "solid" and that is not enough for your crazy wack-o's!!!lol I think hes a solid QB who has some games he looks ELITE and some games he just dosen't I mean his last 4games down the stretch before the Dallas game the guy threw 6td with 6ints He finished the yr with 29td 16picks That is not elite but certainly Solid!

YATittle1962
01-03-2012, 01:44 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB

nycsportzfan
01-03-2012, 02:03 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB OH without a doubt ELI can make sensational throws and is about as close to ELITE as u can be without being "ELITE" in my opinion But still when u can throw a little 4yrd cross pattern to Victor Cruz and he can run 60yrds for a td or whatever and antoher 8yrd pass where he can run a 100yrds for a TD it certainly helps you as a QB lol The guys very good theres no denying that but i just have a diffrent view of "ELITE" then some on here do To me if you Call ELI elite u gotta call matt ryan "ELITE" seeing how he threw the same amount of TDs with 4less picks and a tad better comp pct and i don't think Ryan is elite either Again very good though

I really don't care if people think ELI's elite as its there perogitive i just feel hes not quite ELITE but very very good

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 02:06 PM
I have always been an Eli supporter ....My biggest point has always been.. even if no one appreciated him now...they would sure miss him when he is gone.For example...Simms was never really welcomed till he won Superbowl...then once gone and we were stuck with Brown Grahm and Kanell..........everyone missed him.


exactly



yeah it's amazing all we heard was Rivers/Merriman ... in fact, this board for years didn't have a day go by without a post about the trade and how we got the short end ... and i'm certain some still think that way and are hoping Eli throws 4 picks and we lose by 20+ to Atlanta ... sadly</p>


</p>

When you give up so much to get a player he's going to be scrutinized to the nth degree. It comes with the territory.
</p>


</p>

burier
01-03-2012, 02:14 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid... but I have always stated that Simms was better... these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made... we are truly lucky to have this kid he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe simply remarkable play by the QB OH without a doubt ELI can make sensational throws and is about as close to ELITE as u can be without being "ELITE" in my opinion But still when u can throw a little 4yrd cross pattern to Victor Cruz and he can run 60yrds for a td or whatever and antoher 8yrd pass where he can run a 100yrds for a TD it certainly helps you as a QB lol The guys very good theres no denying that but i just have a diffrent view of "ELITE" then some on here do To me if you Call ELI elite u gotta call matt ryan "ELITE" seeing how he threw the same amount of TDs with 4less picks and a tad better comp pct and i don't think Ryan is elite either Again very good though

I really don't care if people think ELI's elite as its there perogitive i just feel hes not quite ELITE but very very good
</P>


Ithink that this whole Elite thingshas gotten out of hand since the definition of the term is subjective.</P>


I do think for whatever reason, fantasy football,constant ESPN/NFL Netgraphics or what..but something hasus a little over obsessed with stats.</P>


Matt Ryan is a good as Eli because he puts up similar numbers?? Nah...The Eyeball test says otherwise.</P>


Also remember that Matty plays indoors and has a consistent running game. HeHasn't had the injuries to his offensive line and tokey weapons in his passing game either.</P>


This is why Eli got named to the prowbowl over guys that Ryan and Stafford...he's done more with much less despite the stats being similar and in some cases favoring the other QBs.</P>


A more interesting conversation to me is...What if Eli played in Rogers' west coast high percentage offense with his recievers. I mean Victor Cruz is great but he's still learning. He giveth and he taketh away (Not my words).Nicks still has some work to do to be as good as Greg Jennings.</P>


What if Sean Payton was calling our offense or what If Eli got to Play in N.O with the best home field advantage in football in doors with the recievers down there.</P>


Lets Trade Manningham for Welker and Ballard for Gronkowski and see how Eli does.</P>


Ryan's not there yet and I think Eli does more with less than anybody in the league and I don't think its close.</P>

daynemustgo
01-03-2012, 02:14 PM
I think Harooni is still mad that Eli doesn't show enough chest hair.

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 02:16 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</p>


</p>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</p>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</p>


2010 discussion</p>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</p>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</p>


2009 discussion</p>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</p>


2008 discussion</p>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</p>


</p>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</p>

Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.

GMENAGAIN
01-03-2012, 02:18 PM
I think that there were very few actual Eli haters. Most of the posters who were called Eli "haters" simply pointed out that Eli had an unacceptable year last year and needed to improve.

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 02:21 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB OH without a doubt ELI can make sensational throws and is about as close to ELITE as u can be without being "ELITE" in my opinion But still when u can throw a little 4yrd cross pattern to Victor Cruz and he can run 60yrds for a td or whatever and antoher 8yrd pass where he can run a 100yrds for a TD it certainly helps you as a QB lol The guys very good theres no denying that but i just have a diffrent view of "ELITE" then some on here do To me if you Call ELI elite u gotta call matt ryan "ELITE" seeing how he threw the same amount of TDs with 4less picks and a tad better comp pct and i don't think Ryan is elite either Again very good though

I really don't care if people think ELI's elite as its there perogitive i just feel hes not quite ELITE but very very good


Eli has had a great season. I would say if he has another season like this one you have to consider him elite.

burier
01-03-2012, 02:21 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>

repeatchamps
01-03-2012, 02:23 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid... but I have always stated that Simms was better... these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made... we are truly lucky to have this kid he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe simply remarkable play by the QB OH without a doubt ELI can make sensational throws and is about as close to ELITE as u can be without being "ELITE" in my opinion But still when u can throw a little 4yrd cross pattern to Victor Cruz and he can run 60yrds for a td or whatever and antoher 8yrd pass where he can run a 100yrds for a TD it certainly helps you as a QB lol The guys very good theres no denying that but i just have a diffrent view of "ELITE" then some on here do To me if you Call ELI elite u gotta call matt ryan "ELITE" seeing how he threw the same amount of TDs with 4less picks and a tad better comp pct and i don't think Ryan is elite either Again very good though

I really don't care if people think ELI's elite as its there perogitive i just feel hes not quite ELITE but very very good
</P>


Ithink that this whole Elite thingshas gotten out of hand since the definition of the term is subjective.</P>


I do think for whatever reason, fantasy football,constant ESPN/NFL Netgraphics or what..but something hasus a little over obsessed with stats.</P>


Matt Ryan is a good as Eli because he puts up similar numbers?? Nah...The Eyeball test says otherwise.</P>


Also remember that Matty plays indoors and has a consistent running game. HeHasn't had the injuries to his offensive line and tokey weapons in his passing game either.</P>


This is why Eli got named to the prowbowl over guys that Ryan and Stafford...he's done more with much less despite the stats being similar and in some cases favoring the other QBs.</P>


A more interesting conversation to me is...What if Eli played in Rogers' west coast high percentage offense with his recievers. I mean Victor Cruz is great but he's still learning. He giveth and he taketh away (Not my words).Nicks still has some work to do to be as good as Greg Jennings.</P>


What if Sean Payton was calling our offense or what If Eli got to Play in N.O with the best home field advantage in football in doors with the recievers down there.</P>


Lets Trade Manningham for Welker and Ballard for Gronkowski and see how Eli does.</P>


Ryan's not there yet and I think Eli does more with less than anybody in the league and I don't think its close.</P>


</P>


One of the best posts in the history of this message board and especially in the Eli era. Excellent stuff and I agree with everything you said. Don't forget to add that the Giants also have only the 27th ranked NFL defense this year and very shaky at best special teams play at times.</P>

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 02:25 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB

I hear ya YA. Like you I too am a big Simms fan.

Some guys try to downplay Eli's emergence this year, but has never thrown the ball this well. His accuracy is much improved over past seasons.

And yes, I'm aware he still throws into coverage, puts balls up for grabs, and misses receivers, but those are far less frequent then in past years.

Besides that, he has the uncanny ability to make plays when we most need them.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2012, 02:29 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</p>


</p>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</p>

How would you even know that, if it were true? If you mean the fans "here" that' less than 1% of the "fans" the team has. I've never seen anyone here say Eli sucked "every other year."

Morehead State
01-03-2012, 02:31 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid... but I have always stated that Simms was better... these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made... we are truly lucky to have this kid he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe simply remarkable play by the QB

I hear ya YA. Like you I too am a big Simms fan.

Some guys try to downplay Eli's emergence this year, but has never thrown the ball this well. His accuracy is much improved over past seasons.

And yes, I'm aware he still throws into coverage, puts balls up for grabs, and misses receivers, but those are far less frequent then in past years.

Besides that, he has the uncanny ability to make plays when we most need them.
</P>


The point is that Eli had a poor sesason last year. His play this season has exceeded any other in his career. Not because of the passing numbers (defenses were lousy this season and everybody had big passing numbers) but because of his solid decision making in the pocket. he has always been able to make every throw. Now he applies a confidence and shrewdness in the pocket along with his passing abilities. </P>


That spells a top 5 QB.</P>

burier
01-03-2012, 02:31 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




How would you even know that, if it were true? If you mean the fans "here" that' less than 1% of the "fans" the team has. I've never seen anyone here say Eli sucked "every other year."
</P>


</P>


I actually was talking about the fans here...I assumed that's what the OP meant.</P>

G-Man67
01-03-2012, 02:39 PM
When you give up so much to get a player he's going to be scrutinized to the nth degree.* It comes with the territory.
</p>


</p>

well totally agree, but we made the playoffs in 2005, 2006, 2007 WON SUPER BOWL, 2008



so "fans" that were saying Eli is horrible, bad trade, to me, totally had their blinders on ... and that is my real issue with those posters .... everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but when you put blinders on and just say, well this is how it is and i'm not considering anything else, then you are no longer part of any real discussion



listen when Eli was in the process of throwing 27 INTs last year, i was the first one to stand up and say, that it was mostly on Eli, whereas, some of his blind supporters were totally blaming the WRs



even as a staunch Eli supporter, i could be critical of him, while never losing site of the fact that having a franchise QB is a great thing and something that should be appreciated each and every day ... cause we all remember the period between Simms and Eli



and one of the many great things about Eli is that he is still working to improve ... he hasn't been throwing as high this year ... yes he's missed some low, but that is way safer ... and his pocket presence is really off the charts these days ... dare i say P. Manning-esque



personally, i love the debates, i stirred the pot about Spags the other day, but the debates are only productive with the blinders off

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 02:41 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</p>


</p>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</p>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</p>


2010 discussion</p>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</p>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</p>


2009 discussion</p>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</p>


2008 discussion</p>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</p>


</p>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</p>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</p>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</p>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</p>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</p>


You've actually made my point.</p>


/Thread</p>

Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.

Morehead State
01-03-2012, 02:44 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


And theydo Rosie.</P>


</P>


</P>


....but they really don't mean it.</P>

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 02:46 PM
When you give up so much to get a player he's going to be scrutinized to the nth degree. It comes with the territory.


</p>


</p>

well totally agree, but we made the playoffs in 2005, 2006, 2007 WON SUPER BOWL, 2008



so "fans" that were saying Eli is horrible, bad trade, to me, totally had their blinders on ... and that is my real issue with those posters .... everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but when you put blinders on and just say, well this is how it is and i'm not considering anything else, then you are no longer part of any real discussion

</p>

listen when Eli was in the process of throwing 27 INTs last year, i was the first one to stand up and say, that it was mostly on Eli, whereas, some of his blind supporters were totally blaming the WRs</p>



even as a staunch Eli supporter, i could be critical of him, while never losing site of the fact that having a franchise QB is a great thing and something that should be appreciated each and every day ... cause we all remember the period between Simms and Eli</p>



and one of the many great things about Eli is that he is still working to improve ... he hasn't been throwing as high this year ... yes he's missed some low, but that is way safer ... and his pocket presence is really off the charts these days ... dare i say P. Manning-esque</p>



personally, i love the debates, i stirred the pot about Spags the other day, but the debates are only productive with the blinders off</p>


</p>

Totally agree.</p>

A few have labeled me as a hater for being critical of Eli, and the truth is this was the first season that I ever got really down on him. I expected him to play great from the get-go, and when I saw him get-off to that lousy start I just about gave up on him.</p>

The old adage applies to Eli (and most athletes) and that is you reap what you sow.</p>

It's truly amazing though that we still talk about him this way.
</p>

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 02:48 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</p>


</p>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</p>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</p>


2010 discussion</p>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</p>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</p>


2009 discussion</p>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</p>


2008 discussion</p>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</p>


</p>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</p>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</p>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</p>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</p>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</p>


You've actually made my point.</p>


/Thread</p>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</p>


And theydo Rosie.</p>


</p>


</p>


....but they really don't mean it.</p>

lol. Who was it that said Giants fans were the most knowledgeable? [;)]

Sarcasman
01-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB OH without a doubt* ELI can make sensational throws*** and is about as close to ELITE as u can be without being "ELITE"* in my opinion**** But still** when u can throw a little 4yrd cross pattern to Victor Cruz and he can run 60yrds for a td or whatever and antoher 8yrd pass where he can run a 100yrds for a TD** it certainly helps you as a QB lol*** The guys very good*** theres no denying that** but i just have a diffrent view of "ELITE" then some* on here do*** To me if you Call ELI* elite** u gotta call* matt ryan "ELITE" seeing how he threw the same amount of TDs with 4less picks and a tad better comp pct****** and i don't think Ryan is elite either** Again very good though*****

I really don't care if people think ELI's elite as its there perogitive*** i just feel hes not quite ELITE but very very good


Since the definition of elite is completely subjective, I don't really give a crap at all who thinks he's elite and who doesn't.

I used to say he's been around a top 10 QB in the league and has been for most of his career. This year he's around top 5.

SInce most of the arguments on this board are violent agreements about how good he is (do we really need to argue as to whether he's the 4th best or 6th best?)

Elite, solid, very good, great, good it's all just subjective semantics.

scf424
01-03-2012, 02:55 PM
The one thing about Eli that I love this year is his ability to throw a friggin dart on the move. He added that lateral movement in the pocket that wasn't as good last season.

Morehead State
01-03-2012, 03:01 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid... but I have always stated that Simms was better... these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made... we are truly lucky to have this kid he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe simply remarkable play by the QB OH without a doubt ELI can make sensational throws and is about as close to ELITE as u can be without being "ELITE" in my opinion But still when u can throw a little 4yrd cross pattern to Victor Cruz and he can run 60yrds for a td or whatever and antoher 8yrd pass where he can run a 100yrds for a TD it certainly helps you as a QB lol The guys very good theres no denying that but i just have a diffrent view of "ELITE" then some on here do To me if you Call ELI elite u gotta call matt ryan "ELITE" seeing how he threw the same amount of TDs with 4less picks and a tad better comp pct and i don't think Ryan is elite either Again very good though

I really don't care if people think ELI's elite as its there perogitive i just feel hes not quite ELITE but very very good
Since the definition of elite is completely subjective, I don't really give a crap at all who thinks he's elite and who doesn't. I used to say he's been around a top 10 QB in the league and has been for most of his career. This year he's around top 5. SInce most of the arguments on this board are violent agreements about how good he is (do we really need to argue as to whether he's the 4th best or 6th best?) Elite, solid, very good, great, good it's all just subjective semantics.</P>


"violent agreement",,,thats great. its also true.</P>


We agree that he's playing great thios year, now the argument is that he played just as good last year but was victimized by bad teammates.</P>


I happen to agree completely with his standing as well. I had him around 9 or 10 last season, now I have him only behind Brady, Rodgers and Brees. (still gotta put Peyton there too). Stafford has also been incredible this season. But clearly Eli has moved past guys like Rivers and Ben.</P>

burier
01-03-2012, 03:07 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...The same peers who called him overrated. </P>


Its perception vs reality.</P>


Us Eli supporters aren't disputing the negative perception exists we are disputing that is reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. (See Superbowl 42 among others)Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


We all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>

Morehead State
01-03-2012, 03:10 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated. Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year. By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>

burier
01-03-2012, 03:17 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated. Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year. By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your ownopinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.</P>

Sarcasman
01-03-2012, 03:20 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


*</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better.* Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB.* There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year?* I don't.*

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


*</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out.* It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years.* Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, & '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.** *


</P>


*</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman.* Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated.* Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to* shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.*We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now.* If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.**The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats with*a poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time starter*going into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over*17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


*</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


*</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year.** By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


*</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.*Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your own*opinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.*</P>


Would you feel better if he recanted his statement to "he threw for a lot of yards and many TDS but also made some horrendous decisions and poor throws"?

Because I think we're dotted i's and crossed t's from signing a deal here....

burier
01-03-2012, 03:24 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated. Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year. By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your ownopinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.</P>


Would you feel better if he recanted his statement to "he threw for a lot of yards and many TDS but also made some horrendous decisions and poor throws"? Because I think we're dotted i's and crossed t's from signing a deal here....</P>


</P>


If you can get him to Say Eli improved from 2010 to 2011 at the same clip he improved from 2009 to 2010 then you got a deal.</P>

Sarcasman
01-03-2012, 03:28 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


*</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better.* Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB.* There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year?* I don't.*

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


*</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out.* It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years.* Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, & '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.** *


</P>


*</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman.* Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated.* Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to* shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.*We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now.* If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.**The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats with*a poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time starter*going into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over*17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


*</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


*</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year.** By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


*</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.*Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your own*opinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.*</P>


Would you feel better if he recanted his statement to "he threw for a lot of yards and many TDS but also made some horrendous decisions and poor throws"? Because I think we're dotted i's and crossed t's from signing a deal here....</P>


*</P>


If you can get him to Say Eli improved from 2010 to 2011 at the same clip he improved from 2009 to 2010 then you got a deal.</P>


Back to square one I guess.

Do you really think he had a better year in 2010 than 2009?

If so, you might need a new negotiator; I can no longer broker this peace....

YATittle1962
01-03-2012, 03:31 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB

I hear ya YA.* Like you I too am a big Simms fan.

Some guys try to downplay Eli's emergence this year, but has never thrown the ball this well.* His accuracy is much improved over past seasons.

And yes, I'm aware he still throws into coverage, puts balls up for grabs, and misses receivers, but those are far less frequent then in past years.

Besides that, he has the uncanny ability to make plays when we most need them.


he sure does seem to make plays in those clutch situations time and time again......having guys like Nicks and Cruz sure doesnt hurt but the kid is playing out of his mind right now

Ive never been one for the whole "Elite" discussion.....I just know Ive seen Eli make throws this season that not many QBs in the league would have made....a lot of them under pressure and off balance....

just shows his strength ...mental and physical

Morehead State
01-03-2012, 03:33 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated. Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year. By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your ownopinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.</P>


</P>


There's "data" that measures pocket presence?</P>


His "pocket presence guage" measured 2.2 last year. This year its at 8.4.</P>

Providence
01-03-2012, 03:33 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

put it this way: I don't know if they've converted, but the whole TRADE ELI FOR LUCK threads have stopped


The "trade Eli for Luck" threads will back all in good time.

If we have an early exit from the playoffs they will be back.

If we win it all and then in week 1 of next year Eli plays poorly they will be back.

If we win it all, repeat next year and Eli comes out flat in 2013 they will be back.

They'll never go away. I feel silly saying this, but it is completely appropriate and sums up my point so I will say it nonetheless:

Haters gonna hate.

Morehead State
01-03-2012, 03:35 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

put it this way: I don't know if they've converted, but the whole TRADE ELI FOR LUCK threads have stopped
The "trade Eli for Luck" threads will back all in good time. If we have an early exit from the playoffs they will be back. If we win it all and then in week 1 of next year Eli plays poorly they will be back. If we win it all, repeat next year and Eli comes out flat in 2013 they will be back. They'll never go away. I feel silly saying this, but it is completely appropriate and sums up my point so I will say it nonetheless: Haters gonna hate.</P>


You're very cynical.</P>


Try a little love. </P>

burier
01-03-2012, 03:37 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated. Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year. By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your ownopinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.</P>


Would you feel better if he recanted his statement to "he threw for a lot of yards and many TDS but also made some horrendous decisions and poor throws"? Because I think we're dotted i's and crossed t's from signing a deal here....</P>


</P>


If you can get him to Say Eli improved from 2010 to 2011 at the same clip he improved from 2009 to 2010 then you got a deal.</P>


Back to square one I guess. Do you really think he had a better year in 2010 than 2009? If so, you might need a new negotiator; I can no longer broker this peace....</P>


I'm not saying that he was statistically better. Though he did throw more TDs in 2010 than in 09 and he threw for just 19 less yards. The spike in INT numbers make it an inferior statistical year. </P>


That said I do believe he was a better player in 2010 than he was 09. The fact that he was a big banged up in 09 not withstanding.</P>


Remember the Oline is has been on steady decline since 08 but 2010 Eli seemed slightly more accurate and mobile than ever. I mean check these throws out.</P>


</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gusi3Xr8RFk</P>


</P>

Morehead State
01-03-2012, 03:41 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated. Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year. By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your ownopinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.</P>


Would you feel better if he recanted his statement to "he threw for a lot of yards and many TDS but also made some horrendous decisions and poor throws"? Because I think we're dotted i's and crossed t's from signing a deal here....</P>


</P>


If you can get him to Say Eli improved from 2010 to 2011 at the same clip he improved from 2009 to 2010 then you got a deal.</P>


Back to square one I guess. Do you really think he had a better year in 2010 than 2009? If so, you might need a new negotiator; I can no longer broker this peace....</P>


I'm not saying that he was statistically better. Though he did throw more TDs in 2010 than in 09 and he threw for just 19 less yards. The spike in INT numbers make it an inferior statistical year. </P>


That said I do believe he was a better player in 2010 than he was 09. The fact that he was a big banged up in 09 not withstanding.</P>


Remember the Oline is has been on steady decline since 08 but 2010 Eli seemed slightly more accurate and mobile than ever. I mean check these throws out.</P>


</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gusi3Xr8RFk</P>


</P>


</P>


Especially the left handed one into triple coverage in the endzone.</P>

RoanokeFan
01-03-2012, 03:46 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</p>


</p>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</p>




How would you even know that, if it were true? If you mean the fans "here" that' less than 1% of the "fans" the team has. I've never seen anyone here say Eli sucked "every other year."
</p>


</p>


I actually was talking about the fans here...I assumed that's what the OP meant.</p>

We are always going to have controversy like that whether it's Eli, Coughlin, Barden, Beckum, etc. It's just the nature of message boards. In the end, what does it matter? Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether the rest of us agree or not.

EJ Blue
01-03-2012, 03:48 PM
I was a Eli hater for a long time and converted. This team was turrible all year and wouldn't have won a game without him. Eli was the season.

but it doesn't change the fact he's had terrible games in the past year which made people have every right to question him.

burier
01-03-2012, 03:50 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated. Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year. By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your ownopinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.</P>


Would you feel better if he recanted his statement to "he threw for a lot of yards and many TDS but also made some horrendous decisions and poor throws"? Because I think we're dotted i's and crossed t's from signing a deal here....</P>


</P>


If you can get him to Say Eli improved from 2010 to 2011 at the same clip he improved from 2009 to 2010 then you got a deal.</P>


Back to square one I guess. Do you really think he had a better year in 2010 than 2009? If so, you might need a new negotiator; I can no longer broker this peace....</P>


I'm not saying that he was statistically better. Though he did throw more TDs in 2010 than in 09 and he threw for just 19 less yards. The spike in INT numbers make it an inferior statistical year. </P>


That said I do believe he was a better player in 2010 than he was 09. The fact that he was a big banged up in 09 not withstanding.</P>


Remember the Oline is has been on steady decline since 08 but 2010 Eli seemed slightly more accurate and mobile than ever. I mean check these throws out.</P>


</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gusi3Xr8RFk</P>


</P>


</P>


Especially the left handed one into triple coverage in the endzone.</P>


</P>


</P>


Ahhh...now I see what happened to you..You're still sore about that one play.</P>

EJ Blue
01-03-2012, 03:51 PM
...and why are you guys making a mountain of quotes. Break into pairs or something. This looks effing ridiculous lol. I ONLY see on these messageboards.

jakegibbs
01-03-2012, 03:56 PM
I was a Eli hater for a long time and converted. This team was turrible all year and wouldn't have won a game without him. Eli was the season.

but it doesn't change the fact he's had terrible games in the past year which made people have every right to question him.


Name any long term starting QB & you can point out bad games. It mostly depends on O Line protection & recievers getting open + running the correct routes.

gmen46
01-03-2012, 04:24 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

put it this way: I don't know if they've converted, but the whole TRADE ELI FOR LUCK threads have stopped
The "trade Eli for Luck" threads will back all in good time. If we have an early exit from the playoffs they will be back. If we win it all and then in week 1 of next year Eli plays poorly they will be back. If we win it all, repeat next year and Eli comes out flat in 2013 they will be back. They'll never go away. I feel silly saying this, but it is completely appropriate and sums up my point so I will say it nonetheless: Haters gonna hate.</P>


You're very cynical.</P>


Try a little love.* </P>

But is he wrong?

Of course, I appreciate your use of irony. Calling someone "cynical" in an Eli thread is pretty funny.

gumby742
01-03-2012, 04:28 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

put it this way: I don't know if they've converted, but the whole TRADE ELI FOR LUCK threads have stopped
The "trade Eli for Luck" threads will back all in good time. If we have an early exit from the playoffs they will be back. If we win it all and then in week 1 of next year Eli plays poorly they will be back. If we win it all, repeat next year and Eli comes out flat in 2013 they will be back. They'll never go away. I feel silly saying this, but it is completely appropriate and sums up my point so I will say it nonetheless: Haters gonna hate.</P>


Ah, but this is where you're wrong I think. Eli of this year is far different then in years past. As a "hater", let me say this much.</P>


It's 2 fold.</P>


His stats are much, much better. Hate on stats all you want, but what stats definitely indicate is that a player is doing his job. If a player has a rating of 140 and his team is 0-16, you know he's holding up his end of the bargain. Eli's numbers are through the roof this year. I'm in no way shape or form saying stats tell the entire story however. In years past, Eli's numbers were arguably average compared to the likes of his peers - Ben, Rivers, etc. This year, he's at their level, if not above. That alone is saying, he's doing a good job. No discussion needed (unlike previous years).</P>


His decision making is better. His command of the pocket is better. His accuracy is better. He's consistent. Even a blindman can tell that he's a different. Whatever you want to call it, his "aura" is different. And that goes a long way. The media and other team's fans a like are also buying into the hoopla. People are officially on the Eli bandwagon.</P>


Say if we go one and done this year. Say if Eli stinks the joint up next week. Anyone who blames Eli for our arguably failed season is going to be a troll. It's night and day what Eli has done. It's not just the stats but in the way he plays the game also. There's no way anyone can take away what Eli has done for us this season.</P>


Personally, it's going to take me another year in order for me to say that Eli has "arrived". But that's just because I'm hard to convince in everything real life. I'm not about to annoint JPP and Cruz yet either. But, I'm not going to fault people who do because I'm already crazy excited about him playing this well.</P>

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 04:31 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</p>


</p>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</p>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</p>


2010 discussion</p>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</p>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</p>


2009 discussion</p>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</p>


2008 discussion</p>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</p>


</p>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</p>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</p>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</p>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</p>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</p>


You've actually made my point.</p>


/Thread</p>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</p>


</p>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </p>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...The same peers who called him overrated. </p>


Its perception vs reality.</p>


Us Eli supporters aren't disputing the negative perception exists we are disputing that is reality.</p>

<font color="#000080">You can dispute it all you want, but I'll ask you this; who's perception is more likely to be realistic one, a player or some fan watching on TV?</font>

</p>



</p>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. (See Superbowl 42 among others)
</p>

<font color="#000080">I disagree. He showed very early on that he had a knack to make special plays but the reality is that we hadn't seen much of it the last 3 years. Now that is something you can try to blow off but the facts prove that to be correct. </font>
</p>

<font color="#000080">He had 6 game winning drives in the 4th quarter in 2007 and in 2011 seasons. In 2008, 2009 and 2010</font> <font color="#000080">he combined for 6.</font>
</p>


</p>

Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</p>

<font color="#000080">It's not as if we were some dominant team these past few years that had us always playing ahead. Eli has succeeded way much more then he has failed when the chips were down. Not once have we seen him play this year like he did during the 2008 playoff game. Last year he played like he did in 2008.
</font></p>



We all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</p>

<font color="#000080">I see last year as a big disappointment. Sure his yardage and TD's were nice, but he made too many errors. Way too many high throws. </font>
</p>


</p>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</p>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</p>

<font color="#000080">Comparing his TD totals alone proves you can't go by stats alone. But do you think just maybe his yards are up because he's throwing the ball more accurately and allowing players to get more YAC? That again, is reality. </font>
</p>


</p>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</p>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</p>

<font color="#000080">
</font></p>

<font color="#000080">I don't really care about his average INT's, I only care that he reduced his picks by 9 this year. Call me crazy but I would attribute that to him throwing the ball better then ever.</font>
</p>


</p>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</p>


</p>


</p><font color="#000080">Obviously we don't not agree. I know there are a handful that believe the same as you. But I'm amongst the rest that see it differently. I'm sure you know who they are, they are players, beat writers, columnists, coaches, analysts, etc.

[;)]
</font>

Morehead State
01-03-2012, 04:33 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

put it this way: I don't know if they've converted, but the whole TRADE ELI FOR LUCK threads have stopped
The "trade Eli for Luck" threads will back all in good time. If we have an early exit from the playoffs they will be back. If we win it all and then in week 1 of next year Eli plays poorly they will be back. If we win it all, repeat next year and Eli comes out flat in 2013 they will be back. They'll never go away. I feel silly saying this, but it is completely appropriate and sums up my point so I will say it nonetheless: Haters gonna hate.</P>


You're very cynical.</P>


Try a little love. </P>


But is he wrong? Of course, I appreciate your use of irony. Calling someone "cynical" in an Eli thread is pretty funny.</P>


I'm not smart enough for that.</P>

lawl
01-03-2012, 04:37 PM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league.

He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker.

Know who you're conversing with.

MattMeyerBud
01-03-2012, 04:39 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

put it this way: I don't know if they've converted, but the whole TRADE ELI FOR LUCK threads have stopped
The "trade Eli for Luck" threads will back all in good time. If we have an early exit from the playoffs they will be back. If we win it all and then in week 1 of next year Eli plays poorly they will be back. If we win it all, repeat next year and Eli comes out flat in 2013 they will be back. They'll never go away. I feel silly saying this, but it is completely appropriate and sums up my point so I will say it nonetheless: Haters gonna hate.</p>


Ah, but this is where you're wrong I think. Eli of this year is far different then in years past. As a "hater", let me say this much.</p>


It's 2 fold.</p>


His stats are much, much better. Hate on stats all you want, but what stats definitely indicate is that a player is doing his job. If a player has a rating of 140 and his team is 0-16, you know he's holding up his end of the bargain. Eli's numbers are through the roof this year. I'm in no way shape or form saying stats tell the entire story however. In years past, Eli's numbers were arguably average compared to the likes of his peers - Ben, Rivers, etc. This year, he's at their level, if not above. That alone is saying, he's doing a good job. No discussion needed (unlike previous years).</p>


His decision making is better. His command of the pocket is better. His accuracy is better. He's consistent. Even a blindman can tell that he's a different. Whatever you want to call it, his "aura" is different. And that goes a long way. The media and other team's fans a like are also buying into the hoopla. People are officially on the Eli bandwagon.</p>


Say if we go one and done this year. Say if Eli stinks the joint up next week. Anyone who blames Eli for our arguably failed season is going to be a troll. It's night and day what Eli has done. It's not just the stats but in the way he plays the game also. There's no way anyone can take away what Eli has done for us this season.</p>


Personally, it's going to take me another year in order for me to say that Eli has "arrived". But that's just because I'm hard to convince in everything real life. I'm not about to annoint JPP and Cruz yet either. But, I'm not going to fault people who do because I'm already crazy excited about him playing this well.</p>

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/4/128676306535672429.jpg

MattMeyerBud
01-03-2012, 04:39 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?

put it this way: I don't know if they've converted, but the whole TRADE ELI FOR LUCK threads have stopped
The "trade Eli for Luck" threads will back all in good time. If we have an early exit from the playoffs they will be back. If we win it all and then in week 1 of next year Eli plays poorly they will be back. If we win it all, repeat next year and Eli comes out flat in 2013 they will be back. They'll never go away. I feel silly saying this, but it is completely appropriate and sums up my point so I will say it nonetheless: Haters gonna hate.</p>


You're very cynical.</p>


Try a little love. </p>


But is he wrong? Of course, I appreciate your use of irony. Calling someone "cynical" in an Eli thread is pretty funny.</p>


I'm not smart enough for that.</p>

hes not... i can vouch

Sarcasman
01-03-2012, 04:46 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


*</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better.* Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB.* There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year?* I don't.*

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


*</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out.* It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years.* Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, & '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.** *


</P>


*</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman.* Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated.* Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to* shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.*We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now.* If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.**The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats with*a poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time starter*going into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over*17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


*</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


*</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year.** By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


*</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.*Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your own*opinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.*</P>


Would you feel better if he recanted his statement to "he threw for a lot of yards and many TDS but also made some horrendous decisions and poor throws"? Because I think we're dotted i's and crossed t's from signing a deal here....</P>


*</P>


If you can get him to Say Eli improved from 2010 to 2011 at the same clip he improved from 2009 to 2010 then you got a deal.</P>


Back to square one I guess. Do you really think he had a better year in 2010 than 2009? If so, you might need a new negotiator; I can no longer broker this peace....</P>


I'm not saying that he was statistically better. Though he did throw more TDs in 2010 than in 09 and he threw for just 19 less yards.* The spike in INT numbers make it an inferior statistical year. </P>


That said I do believe he was a better player in 2010 than he was 09. The fact that he was a big banged up in 09 not withstanding.</P>


Remember the Oline is has been on steady decline since 08 but 2010 Eli seemed slightly more accurate and mobile than ever.* I mean check these throws out.</P>


*</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gusi3Xr8RFk</P>


*</P>


</P>


Especially the left handed one into triple coverage in the endzone.</P>


Exactly.

What were you thinking posting that as evidentiary support for your argument?

I think he was better in 09 than '10. If you want to make the argument that he needed to have a season like '10 to reach the next level...I'm with you.

But part of the deal is making good decisions, something that was not in abundance last year.

burier
01-03-2012, 04:55 PM
Or are they still looking for excuses?</P>


</P>


Most of them are saying that Eli has magically become a much better player this year. Most of them stand by the idea that he's sucked every other year.</P>




He is better. Which is why he is going to the Pro Bowl, and people are no longer laughing when talking about him as a legit top 5 QB. There's even been talk about him being a potential MVP candidate if Brees and Rodgers weren't having lights-out type seasons.

You think his play ever warranted that type of discussion before this year? I don't.

</P>


2010 discussion</P>


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3721-Eli-Manning-emerges-as-MVP-candidate</P>


http://www.giantsgab.com/2010/11/03/eli-manning-mvp-candidate/</P>


2009 discussion</P>


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091020031619AArkjK6</P>


2008 discussion</P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80cd7b23/printable/ask-vic-why-eli-manning-isnt-in-the-mvp-discussion</P>


</P>


That's about 60 seconds worth of research right there</P>




Nice try.

Eli has played very well early in those seasons, but you gotta show me talk later on in December to make that point.

My guess is it'll take a little more time than 60 seconds.
</P>


I COULD'T SHOW YOU TALK FROM THIS DECEMBER...</P>


Eli was talked about as possible MVP not named Rogers up until ....About Decemeber. Its the same thing this season.</P>


So in actuality thats a nice try on your part since you're the one claiming Eli is SO much better this season.</P>


You've actually made my point.</P>


/Thread</P>




Well, let's wait and see what happens when the MVP vote comes out. It wouldn't surprise me if name comes up then.

I just think it's a ridiculous to try to sell anyone on Eli being the same player as previous years. Here's some facts for you:

Eli has as many 4th qtr game winning drives this year then he had in '08, '09, &amp; '10 combined.

Eli was voted as one of top top OVERRATED players by his peers the last few years.

He didn't make the top 100 players list, and was ridiculed over his proclaimed top 5 comments.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe this is how he's played all along that's your prerogative.


</P>


</P>


You're revealing your throat a little here but I'm not gonna let you off the hook because your refrencing instances of PERCEPTION and not reality which is my beef. </P>


I know Eli wasn't on the top 100. I think that was a travesty considering that Both Tony Romo and Donovan McNabb did make the list. Romo played only 4 games last season and McNabb was benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Its crazy to suggest either of those QBs had a better season than Eli did in 2010. But the list is the list as created by Eli's peers...Those same peer who called him overrated. Its perception vs reality. Us Eli supported aren't disputing the negative perception we are disputing that is indeed reality.</P>


Eli has these 4th quarter game winning drives this season and that's great. He's been magnificent in the clutch this year but he's always been clutch. Just so happens that this season due to shockingly bad defense and the chips falling a certain way he's been in a position to have 4th quarter game winning drives alot.We've had to play from behind at an alarming rate this season wich lends itself to last minute game winning drives. The frequency of the circumstance has changed not the quarterback.</P>


And I shouldn't say that because we all know Eli is playing his best football now. If you're asking me if he's a better player this year than he was last year then the answer is yes. But over his career his current year has always been his best year. And even last season where his INTs where High he also posted a career high in TDs and his second best career yardage total.</P>


This season he sets a career high in yards but only second best TD total.The stats don't support the idea that he's a changed man.</P>


His yards are up significantly but thats witha poor defense and poor running game. That easily explains why he's thrown for more yards.</P>


He's thrown 16 picks this year Vs 25 in 2010 but did you know his career average per season since being a full time startergoing into 2010 is 15.8?</P>


Even If you average in the anomoly of 25 int his average goes up to just over17. Only 1 more than he's thrown this season.</P>


</P>


I'm sorry there's just no legitimate argument to suggest that he's done anything more than taken a natural annual step forward as QB</P>


</P>


</P>


By any standard he played crappy last year. By any standard he has played much better this year.</P>


To suggest otherwise...........well you know. (I won't say it because the Cultists are a tad thin skinned)</P>


</P>


</P>


Yeah you keep saying that but there's no data to support that argument.Please explain how my argument backed up with facts can be outlandish but your argument backed up only by your ownopinion about "pocket presence" and "decision making" is valid.</P>


Would you feel better if he recanted his statement to "he threw for a lot of yards and many TDS but also made some horrendous decisions and poor throws"? Because I think we're dotted i's and crossed t's from signing a deal here....</P>


</P>


If you can get him to Say Eli improved from 2010 to 2011 at the same clip he improved from 2009 to 2010 then you got a deal.</P>


Back to square one I guess. Do you really think he had a better year in 2010 than 2009? If so, you might need a new negotiator; I can no longer broker this peace....</P>


I'm not saying that he was statistically better. Though he did throw more TDs in 2010 than in 09 and he threw for just 19 less yards. The spike in INT numbers make it an inferior statistical year. </P>


That said I do believe he was a better player in 2010 than he was 09. The fact that he was a big banged up in 09 not withstanding.</P>


Remember the Oline is has been on steady decline since 08 but 2010 Eli seemed slightly more accurate and mobile than ever. I mean check these throws out.</P>


</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gusi3Xr8RFk</P>


</P>


</P>


Especially the left handed one into triple coverage in the endzone.</P>


Exactly. What were you thinking posting that as evidentiary support for your argument? I think he was better in 09 than '10. If you want to make the argument that he needed to have a season like '10 to reach the next level...I'm with you. But part of the deal is making good decisions, something that was not in abundance last year.</P>


I wish you guys would come off it. he made a terrible throw. He also made some seriously good throws in that game.</P>

NJAquaman
01-03-2012, 04:56 PM
For me he is still awkward and hard to watch but style points don't go on the scoreboard...there is no doubt that:
1.) He carried this Banged Up and shallow receiving core.
2.) He made up for many O-Line Gaffs
3.) He is a Beast with 4 minutes to go
4.) He called some timely audibles
5.) He allowed the D to rest and even bailed them out many times.

Jerry, Get the guy a better O line...he earned it this year....

Die-Hard
01-03-2012, 05:33 PM
It's hilarious that most people on this board feel that if you dont positively LOVE Eli Manning and consider him a top 5 elite QB in his NFL career, then you must be a hater, and need to be "converted".

One year ago, you couldn't find more than 10-15 posters on the GMB who still supported him wholeheartedly, despite the atrocious number of turnovers he single handedly was responsible for, not to mention costing them at least 1-2 games because of those turnovers.

I really do like Eli, and he has 100% proved me wrong this season. However, one season doesn't make him an elite, top 5 QB overall. I hate to break it to some of you guys, but some people simply aren't so quick to forget the horribly inconsistent play from just one season ago, and in several earlier seasons as well. I'm not an Eli hater. I just need more proof that he's worthy of this "elite" tag that you all have thrown on him, and it's going to take more than one great season to convince me. I suspect I'm not the only one who feels that way either. Not sure why some of you require him to be considered "elite", but thats another topic for another time.

giantsfan420
01-03-2012, 05:47 PM
It's hilarious that most people on this board feel that if you dont positively LOVE Eli Manning and consider him a top 5 elite QB in his NFL career, then you must be a hater, and need to be "converted".

One year ago, you couldn't find more than 10-15 posters on the GMB who still supported him wholeheartedly, despite the atrocious number of turnovers he single handedly was responsible for, not to mention costing them at least 1-2 games because of those turnovers.

I really do like Eli, and he has 100% proved me wrong this season. However, one season doesn't make him an elite, top 5 QB overall. I hate to break it to some of you guys, but some people simply aren't so quick to forget the horribly inconsistent play from just one season ago, and in several earlier seasons as well. I'm not an Eli hater. I just need more proof that he's worthy of this "elite" tag that you all have thrown on him, and it's going to take more than one great season to convince me. I suspect I'm not the only one who feels that way either. Not sure why some of you require him to be considered "elite", but thats another topic for another time.


his play in 08 and 09 was quickly forgotten after the 2010 season tho isnt it a double standard?

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 05:54 PM
Sorry fellas, but Eli just admitted on the Michael Kay show that he knew the things he needed to improve upon coming off last year and he worked hard in the off-season to accomplish that.

Winna!!!!!! [Y]

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 06:07 PM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league.

He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker.

Know who you're conversing with.

I see. Who needs a pass rush anyway?

mattpl908
01-03-2012, 06:13 PM
do you guys think that eli will continue to improve in the next years or did he hit his high

RobCarpenter
01-03-2012, 09:02 PM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</P>


Now that's not fair play lawl. That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing timewith one of them.</P>

RobCarpenter
01-03-2012, 09:07 PM
Sorry fellas, but Eli just admitted on the Michael Kay show that he knew the things he needed to improve upon coming off last year and he worked hard in the off-season to accomplish that.
</P>


Show me an NFLplayer who doesn't know areas that he needs to improve on and doesn't work to improve them and I'll show you a former NFL player. </P>

RobCarpenter
01-03-2012, 09:11 PM
do you guys think that eli will continue to improve in the next years or did he hit his high</P>


I think it will be hard for him to pass for more yards than he did this year. He had to throw a lot due to the lack of a running game. Other than that, I think he'll continue to incrementally improve other areas of his game for the next few years until age or wear&amp; tear starts him on his eventual decline. He is a student of the game and has a terrific work ethic. </P>

trueblueinVa
01-03-2012, 09:14 PM
yeah he's a superbowl MVP! I'm just glad he's learned how to sly

nycsportzfan
01-03-2012, 09:17 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB OH without a doubt ELI can make sensational throws and is about as close to ELITE as u can be without being "ELITE" in my opinion But still when u can throw a little 4yrd cross pattern to Victor Cruz and he can run 60yrds for a td or whatever and antoher 8yrd pass where he can run a 100yrds for a TD it certainly helps you as a QB lol The guys very good theres no denying that but i just have a diffrent view of "ELITE" then some on here do To me if you Call ELI elite u gotta call matt ryan "ELITE" seeing how he threw the same amount of TDs with 4less picks and a tad better comp pct and i don't think Ryan is elite either Again very good though

I really don't care if people think ELI's elite as its there perogitive i just feel hes not quite ELITE but very very good


Since the definition of elite is completely subjective, I don't really give a crap at all who thinks he's elite and who doesn't.

I used to say he's been around a top 10 QB in the league and has been for most of his career. This year he's around top 5.

SInce most of the arguments on this board are violent agreements about how good he is (do we really need to argue as to whether he's the 4th best or 6th best?)

Elite, solid, very good, great, good it's all just subjective semantics.agreed

Roosevelt
01-03-2012, 10:39 PM
Sorry fellas, but Eli just admitted on the Michael Kay show that he knew the things he needed to improve upon coming off last year and he worked hard in the off-season to accomplish that.
</p>


Show me an NFLplayer who doesn't know areas that he needs to improve on and doesn't work to improve them and I'll show you a former NFL player. </p>

LT.

burier
01-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Sorry fellas, but Eli just admitted on the Michael Kay show that he knew the things he needed to improve upon coming off last year and he worked hard in the off-season to accomplish that.

Winna!!!!!!* [Y]


??

Who said Eli was perfect?

Actually who said Eli isn't playing better than ever?

burier
01-04-2012, 10:32 AM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league.

He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker.

Know who you're conversing with.

I never said anything about trading Canty.

God the Eli threads really attract that crotch riding bottom feeders.

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 10:41 AM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with. I never said anything about trading Canty. God the Eli threads really attract that crotch riding bottom feeders.</P>


Not if you'd stay away from them.</P>

burier
01-04-2012, 10:52 AM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with. I never said anything about trading Canty. God the Eli threads really attract that crotch riding bottom feeders.</P>


Not if you'd stay away from them.</P>

Clever as usual MS.

gumby742
01-04-2012, 10:58 AM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</P>


Now that's not fair play lawl. That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing timewith one of them.</P>


</P>


Except what lawl said was for the most part correct. The problem with a lot of people and fans in general is that a player has a few good games and they start proclaiming him to be the best thing since sliced bread. Ballard was essentially a nobody. And who knows, he might still be a product of Eli playing the best ball of his career.</P>


Make no mistake that yourself and burier are in a league of your own when it comes to unhealthy Eli man love. They need to make a dedicated Eli forum just for you two.</P>

burier
01-04-2012, 11:04 AM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</P>


Now that's not fair play lawl.* That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing time*with one of them.*</P>


</P>


Except what lawl said was for the most part correct.* The problem with a lot of people and fans in general is that a player has a few good games and they start proclaiming him to be the best thing since sliced bread.* Ballard was essentially a nobody.* And who knows, he might still be a product of Eli playing the best ball of his career.</P>


Make no mistake that yourself and burier are in a league of your own when it comes to unhealthy Eli man love.* They need to make a dedicated Eli forum just for you two.</P>

This made me laugh.

lol Why can't I be a fan of the guy without manlove being involved?

Edit: And I want to stress since lawls post is now being quoted that I never suggested that we trade Chris Canty for a linebacker.

MattMeyerBud
01-04-2012, 11:08 AM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</p>


Now that's not fair play lawl. That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing timewith one of them.</p>


</p>


Except what lawl said was for the most part correct. The problem with a lot of people and fans in general is that a player has a few good games and they start proclaiming him to be the best thing since sliced bread. Ballard was essentially a nobody. And who knows, he might still be a product of Eli playing the best ball of his career.</p>


Make no mistake that yourself and burier are in a league of your own when it comes to unhealthy Eli man love. They need to make a dedicated Eli forum just for you two.</p>

This made me laugh.

lol Why can't I be a fan of the guy without manlove being involved?

Edit: And I want to stress since lawls post is now being quoted that I never suggested that we trade Chris Canty for a linebacker.

http://th13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/ahuacate/Smilies/th_eatpopcorn.gif

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 11:14 AM
Sorry fellas, but Eli just admitted on the Michael Kay show that he knew the things he needed to improve upon coming off last year and he worked hard in the off-season to accomplish that.

Winna!!!!!! [Y]


??

Who said Eli was perfect?

Actually who said Eli isn't playing better than ever?

Oh, my bad.

Are you saying I imagined all the posts where people were saying "Eli is just being Eli - it's the rest of the team making him look better."

Truth is Eli knew he needed to quit throwing the ball high and quit making bad decisions. I think he's done a pretty damn good job of that.

http://th788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/mythirdhouse/th_ace_ventura.gif

burier
01-04-2012, 11:19 AM
Sorry fellas, but Eli just admitted on the Michael Kay show that he knew the things he needed to improve upon coming off last year and he worked hard in the off-season to accomplish that.

Winna!!!!!!* [Y]


??

Who said Eli was perfect?

Actually who said Eli isn't playing better than ever?

Oh, my bad.*

Are you saying I imagined all the posts where people were saying "Eli is just being Eli - it's the rest of the team making him look better."

Truth is Eli knew he needed to quit throwing the ball high and quit making bad decisions.* I think he's done a pretty damn good job of that.

http://th788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/mythirdhouse/th_ace_ventura.gif


I don't know what you're imagining but I never said anything about anyone making Eli look better.

The real truth is in football you're either getting better or getting worse. Eli threw a high number of picks last season so he's taken steps to correct that. But you're intentionally muddying the issue because this isn't about wheather Eli has improved over last season....He has.

But has improved so much that you can say he's great now but sucked last year? I say no and I say its not even close.

elismom
01-04-2012, 11:33 AM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his.

Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate.

The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football

Rose-your one of them

elismom
01-04-2012, 11:34 AM
Sorry fellas, but Eli just admitted on the Michael Kay show that he knew the things he needed to improve upon coming off last year and he worked hard in the off-season to accomplish that.

Winna!!!!!!* [Y]


??

Who said Eli was perfect?

Actually who said Eli isn't playing better than ever?

Oh, my bad.*

Are you saying I imagined all the posts where people were saying "Eli is just being Eli - it's the rest of the team making him look better."

Truth is Eli knew he needed to quit throwing the ball high and quit making bad decisions.* I think he's done a pretty damn good job of that.

http://th788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/mythirdhouse/th_ace_ventura.gif


I don't know what you're imagining but I never said anything about anyone making Eli look better.

The real truth is in football you're either getting better or getting worse. Eli threw a high number of picks last season so he's taken steps to correct that. But you're intentionally muddying the issue because this isn't about wheather Eli has improved over last season....He has.

But has improved so much that you can say he's great now but sucked last year? I say no and I say its not even close.

Eli high throws vs Eli's receivers underachieving is like. 4-1, and its the drops that are the 4. Stop it would ya

elismom
01-04-2012, 11:35 AM
Sorry fellas, but Eli just admitted on the Michael Kay show that he knew the things he needed to improve upon coming off last year and he worked hard in the off-season to accomplish that.

Winna!!!!!!* [Y]


??

LOL!

And thats why he had his receivers with him all summer. Eli is a true leader he always falls on the sword, another sick trait. But you see that as admitting some fault, your so corny brotha. Stop defending your stance you took early in eli's career and get yourself a big ole spoon of crow buddy

Who said Eli was perfect?

Actually who said Eli isn't playing better than ever?

Oh, my bad.*

Are you saying I imagined all the posts where people were saying "Eli is just being Eli - it's the rest of the team making him look better."

Truth is Eli knew he needed to quit throwing the ball high and quit making bad decisions.* I think he's done a pretty damn good job of that.

http://th788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/mythirdhouse/th_ace_ventura.gif


I don't know what you're imagining but I never said anything about anyone making Eli look better.

The real truth is in football you're either getting better or getting worse. Eli threw a high number of picks last season so he's taken steps to correct that. But you're intentionally muddying the issue because this isn't about wheather Eli has improved over last season....He has.

But has improved so much that you can say he's great now but sucked last year? I say no and I say its not even close.

Eli high throws vs Eli's receivers underachieving is like. 4-1, and its the drops that are the 4. Stop it would ya

elismom
01-04-2012, 11:38 AM
Rose-
And thats why he had his receivers with him all summer. Eli is a true leader he always falls on the sword, another sick trait. But you see that as admitting some fault, your so corny brotha. Stop defending your stance you took early in eli's career and get yourself a big ole spoon of crow buddy
?

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 11:47 AM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his.

Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate.

The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football

Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.

burier
01-04-2012, 11:51 AM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his.

Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate.

The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football

Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?*

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.


lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 11:53 AM
Rose-
And thats why he had his receivers with him all summer. Eli is a true leader he always falls on the sword, another sick trait. But you see that as admitting some fault, your so corny brotha. Stop defending your stance you took early in eli's career and get yourself a big ole spoon of crow buddy
?

I don't know what you're on. I never took a stance on Eli's early career. I only acknowledged that we now had a small percentage in our fan base that put one player above our franchise. And that of course I was not cool with.

I have nothing to apologize for regarding any Giants player, let alone your poor boy. It's your complex, you gotta deal with it.

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 11:54 AM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his.

Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate.

The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football

Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.


lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.

Lay it out there. What did I say that was wrong? I'm all ears.

neukid88
01-04-2012, 11:55 AM
I always liked Eli

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 11:56 AM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 12:02 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</p>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</p>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</p>


Now lets look at your position.......</p>


"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</p>


....Burier</p>


</p>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</p>

LMAO!!

Thanks M, I was beginning to feel so ashamed of myself! [:$]

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 12:05 PM
Burier, seriously did you really say this?



"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</p>


....Burier</p>

burier
01-04-2012, 12:07 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?*

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


*</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>

without theCaps I'll just tell you that I'm laughing at you because you're a really old grown man and you let television personalities dictate your opinion.

Who's better than Eli?

Is Brady Better than Eli?

I'd assume you've seen your fair share of Brady living in Mass and all. What's Brady do that is so much better than What Eli does.

I've seen them on the field at the same time more than once and Brady has yet to look any better than Eli.

Is Rogers better?

No doubt Rogers stats are really nice this year but again they looked really close when they were on the field together this season.

Is Brees better?

His stats are really nice this season too and he did blow our doors off so..

Of course Rex Grossman beat us down pretty bad twice. But I don't think he's better than Eli.

I think there's an argument to be made that 3 active QBs are better than Eli but I dissagree with those arguments. I'm just ahead of the curve. Just like I predicted at the begining of the season that everyone would eat their words about Eli. Its because I watch the game and draw my own conclusions. I don't wait for ESPN to tell me what to do.

So next season when Eli is being Praised as maybe the best QB around what will you say?

His footwork is better? He's putting better velocity on the ball? The baby Jaysus blessed his throwing arm? What will GMBs own revisionist historian come up with next?

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:08 PM
Burier, seriously did you really say this?




"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>



</P>


Page 6 of the "Eli Manning IS AN ELITE QB......" thread.</P>


This is who we are up against. He's more than an innocent Eli Cultist. he's an Eli Jihadist!</P>

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:10 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>


without that Caps I'll just tell you that I'm laughing at you because you're a really old grown man and you let television personalities dictate your opinion. Who's better than Eli? Is Brady Better than Eli? I'd assume you've seen your fair share of Brady living in Mass and all. What's Brady do that is so much better than What Eli does. I've seen them on the field at the same time more than once and Brady has yet to look any better than Eli. Is Rogers better? No doubt Rogers stats are really nice this year but again they looked really close when they were on the field together this season. Is Brees better? His stats are really nice this season too and he did blow our doors off so.. Of course Rex Grossman beat us down pretty bad twice. But I don't think he's better than Eli. I think there's an argument to be made that 3 active QBs are better than Eli but I dissagree with those arguments. I'm just ahead of the curve. Just like I predicted at the begining of the season that everyone would eat their words about Eli. Its because I watch the game and draw my own conclusions. I don't wait for ESPN to tell me what to do. So next season when Eli is being Praised as maybe the best QB around what will you say? His footwork is better? He's putting better velocity on the ball? The baby Jaysus bless his throwing arm? What will GMBs own revisionist historian come up with next?</P>


Peyton, Brees, Brady and Rodgers.</P>


</P>


"Doctor....I'm not crazy...I'm just ahead of the curve"</P>


Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!</P>

Redeyejedi
01-04-2012, 12:11 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB
This throw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvFKVrkNhO0&hd=1

burier
01-04-2012, 12:12 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?*

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


*</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>


without that Caps I'll just tell you that I'm laughing at you because you're a really old grown man and you let television personalities dictate your opinion. Who's better than Eli? Is Brady Better than Eli? I'd assume you've seen your fair share of Brady living in Mass and all. What's Brady do that is so much better than What Eli does. I've seen them on the field at the same time more than once and Brady has yet to look any better than Eli. Is Rogers better? No doubt Rogers stats are really nice this year but again they looked really close when they were on the field together this season. Is Brees better? His stats are really nice this season too and he did blow our doors off so.. Of course Rex Grossman beat us down pretty bad twice. But I don't think he's better than Eli. I think there's an argument to be made that 3 active QBs are better than Eli but I dissagree with those arguments. I'm just ahead of the curve. Just like I predicted at the begining of the season that everyone would eat their words about Eli. Its because I watch the game and draw my own conclusions. I don't wait for ESPN to tell me what to do. So next season when Eli is being Praised as maybe the best QB around what will you say? His footwork is better? He's putting better velocity on the ball? The baby Jaysus bless his throwing arm? What will GMBs own revisionist historian come up with next?</P>


Peyton, Brees, Brady and Rodgers.</P>

Wake me up when you have an original thought.

GameTime
01-04-2012, 12:15 PM
you guys always have to battle with this and while it makes for entertaining posts it gets nutty. But I do enjoy it...</P>


When there are two different stories or opinions you can bet almost all the time that truth is in there between both sides. </P>


Eli is a very good QB and plays great at times. Is he the best in the league? At some things yes he is. Overall no he's not. Was last year a lousy year?? For the picks it was. Other wise it was a decent year for him. BUt picls make for a bad time for a QB. Heck this year he has 16 already. Thats aboput 6 too many for me. But on the flip side he is doing other things better then hehas had in the past. </P>


I dig him 100% as the Giants QB and always have but would I choose him to start my own team???</P>


Probably not. I would go with Rodgers, Brees, or Brady first. But thats just me. </P>


Also Eli doesnt have to be the best in the league.....he just has to help the Giants win which he does and then somein a big way.</P>

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:16 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>


without that Caps I'll just tell you that I'm laughing at you because you're a really old grown man and you let television personalities dictate your opinion. Who's better than Eli? Is Brady Better than Eli? I'd assume you've seen your fair share of Brady living in Mass and all. What's Brady do that is so much better than What Eli does. I've seen them on the field at the same time more than once and Brady has yet to look any better than Eli. Is Rogers better? No doubt Rogers stats are really nice this year but again they looked really close when they were on the field together this season. Is Brees better? His stats are really nice this season too and he did blow our doors off so.. Of course Rex Grossman beat us down pretty bad twice. But I don't think he's better than Eli. I think there's an argument to be made that 3 active QBs are better than Eli but I dissagree with those arguments. I'm just ahead of the curve. Just like I predicted at the begining of the season that everyone would eat their words about Eli. Its because I watch the game and draw my own conclusions. I don't wait for ESPN to tell me what to do. So next season when Eli is being Praised as maybe the best QB around what will you say? His footwork is better? He's putting better velocity on the ball? The baby Jaysus bless his throwing arm? What will GMBs own revisionist historian come up with next?</P>


Peyton, Brees, Brady and Rodgers.</P>


Wake me up when you have an original thought.</P>


Doing the exact same thing over and over and expecting a different result is no longer the definition of insanity. Its now being "ahead of the curve".</P>


</P>


I crack myself up!</P>

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 12:17 PM
Burier, seriously did you really say this?




"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</p>


....Burier</p>



</p>


Page 6 of the "Eli Manning IS AN ELITE QB......" thread.</p>


This is who we are up against. He's more than an innocent Eli Cultist. he's an Eli Jihadist!</p>

lol. You can't make this up.

Imagine if we had Tim Tebow here.

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:18 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid... but I have always stated that Simms was better... these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made... we are truly lucky to have this kid he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe simply remarkable play by the QB This throw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvFKVrkNhO0&amp;hd=1</P>


May actually be the best throw of his career.</P>

burier
01-04-2012, 12:22 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?*

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


*</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>


without that Caps I'll just tell you that I'm laughing at you because you're a really old grown man and you let television personalities dictate your opinion. Who's better than Eli? Is Brady Better than Eli? I'd assume you've seen your fair share of Brady living in Mass and all. What's Brady do that is so much better than What Eli does. I've seen them on the field at the same time more than once and Brady has yet to look any better than Eli. Is Rogers better? No doubt Rogers stats are really nice this year but again they looked really close when they were on the field together this season. Is Brees better? His stats are really nice this season too and he did blow our doors off so.. Of course Rex Grossman beat us down pretty bad twice. But I don't think he's better than Eli. I think there's an argument to be made that 3 active QBs are better than Eli but I dissagree with those arguments. I'm just ahead of the curve. Just like I predicted at the begining of the season that everyone would eat their words about Eli. Its because I watch the game and draw my own conclusions. I don't wait for ESPN to tell me what to do. So next season when Eli is being Praised as maybe the best QB around what will you say? His footwork is better? He's putting better velocity on the ball? The baby Jaysus bless his throwing arm? What will GMBs own revisionist historian come up with next?</P>


Peyton, Brees, Brady and Rodgers.</P>


Wake me up when you have an original thought.</P>


Doing the exact same thing over and over is no longer the definition of insanity.* Its now being "ahead of the curve".</P>


*</P>


I crack myself up!</P>

I'm not sure but I guess you're implying that I've said the same thing about Eli every year and then it finally came true.

But that's false. I'm not an Eli Cultist as you say. I've trashed Eli after a bad game probably harder than most on here because I just call it like I see it.

You on the other hand just do as your told.

I bet you think the Giants won the Superbowl because we got "hot" right?

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 12:23 PM
you guys always have to battle with this and while it makes for entertaining posts it gets nutty. But I do enjoy it...</p>


When there are two different stories or opinions you can bet almost all the time that truth is in there between both sides. </p>


Eli is a very good QB and plays great at times. Is he the best in the league? At some things yes he is. Overall no he's not. Was last year a lousy year?? For the picks it was. Other wise it was a decent year for him. BUt picls make for a bad time for a QB. Heck this year he has 16 already. Thats aboput 6 too many for me. But on the flip side he is doing other things better then hehas had in the past. </p>


I dig him 100% as the Giants QB and always have but would I choose him to start my own team???</p>


Probably not. I would go with Rodgers, Brees, or Brady first. But thats just me. </p>


<font size="4">Also Eli doesnt have to be the best in the league.....he just has to help the Giants win which he does and then somein a big way.</font></p>

You're right this is totally bizarre to be having these conversations.

But I think you hit on something there.

That point is exactly right - and wrong at the same time.

For the realists it's right. All we care about is that he plays well enough for us to win.

But for others, that is not good enough. We must acknowledge his full greatness and admit that he's always been great!

Only then may you enter the fandom of Eli.

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:26 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>


without that Caps I'll just tell you that I'm laughing at you because you're a really old grown man and you let television personalities dictate your opinion. Who's better than Eli? Is Brady Better than Eli? I'd assume you've seen your fair share of Brady living in Mass and all. What's Brady do that is so much better than What Eli does. I've seen them on the field at the same time more than once and Brady has yet to look any better than Eli. Is Rogers better? No doubt Rogers stats are really nice this year but again they looked really close when they were on the field together this season. Is Brees better? His stats are really nice this season too and he did blow our doors off so.. Of course Rex Grossman beat us down pretty bad twice. But I don't think he's better than Eli. I think there's an argument to be made that 3 active QBs are better than Eli but I dissagree with those arguments. I'm just ahead of the curve. Just like I predicted at the begining of the season that everyone would eat their words about Eli. Its because I watch the game and draw my own conclusions. I don't wait for ESPN to tell me what to do. So next season when Eli is being Praised as maybe the best QB around what will you say? His footwork is better? He's putting better velocity on the ball? The baby Jaysus bless his throwing arm? What will GMBs own revisionist historian come up with next?</P>


Peyton, Brees, Brady and Rodgers.</P>


Wake me up when you have an original thought.</P>


Doing the exact same thing over and over is no longer the definition of insanity. Its now being "ahead of the curve".</P>


</P>


I crack myself up!</P>


I'm not sure but I guess you're implying that I've said the same thing about Eli every year and then it finally came true. But that's false. I'm not an Eli Cultist as you say. I've trashed Eli after a bad game probably harder than most on here because I just call it like I see it. You on the other hand just do as your told. I bet you think the Giants won the Superbowl because we got "hot" right?</P>


We won the SB because our defense matched up well against the Cowboys, Pack and Pats, and played great. Plus the offense only turned the ball over once in 4 games, and made plays when they had to.</P>


There are a lot of reasons we won the SB in 07. Those are two of the most important.</P>

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:29 PM
you guys always have to battle with this and while it makes for entertaining posts it gets nutty. But I do enjoy it...</P>


When there are two different stories or opinions you can bet almost all the time that truth is in there between both sides. </P>


Eli is a very good QB and plays great at times. Is he the best in the league? At some things yes he is. Overall no he's not. Was last year a lousy year?? For the picks it was. Other wise it was a decent year for him. BUt picls make for a bad time for a QB. Heck this year he has 16 already. Thats aboput 6 too many for me. But on the flip side he is doing other things better then hehas had in the past. </P>


I dig him 100% as the Giants QB and always have but would I choose him to start my own team???</P>


Probably not. I would go with Rodgers, Brees, or Brady first. But thats just me. </P>


<FONT size=4>Also Eli doesnt have to be the best in the league.....he just has to help the Giants win which he does and then somein a big way.</FONT></P>




You're right this is totally bizarre to be having these conversations.

But I think you hit on something there.

That point is exactly right - and wrong at the same time.

For the realists it's right. All we care about is that he plays well enough for us to win.

But for others, that is not good enough. We must acknowledge his full greatness and admit that he's always been great!

Only then may you enter the fandom of Eli.




</P>


Thats it exactly. My problem was not with Eli near as much as it was with these cooky "If you don't think Eli is an all time great, you're an Eli hater" folks.</P>

BornLegend
01-04-2012, 12:32 PM
Burier, seriously did you really say this?




"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</p>


....Burier</p>



</p>


Page 6 of the "Eli Manning IS AN ELITE QB......" thread.</p>


This is who we are up against.* He's more than an innocent Eli Cultist. he's an Eli Jihadist!</p>

lol.* You can't make this up.*

Imagine if we had Tim Tebow here.


And then 420 answering the post by saying that no other QB can do a spin move is downright hilarious. I didn't read no further than the 1st sentence.

burier
01-04-2012, 12:32 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid... but I have always stated that Simms was better... these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made... we are truly lucky to have this kid he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe simply remarkable play by the QB This throw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvFKVrkNhO0&hd=1</P>


May actually be the best throw of his career.</P>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hDa2e_TusM

The ones at 1:17 and 3:48 are pretty good.

And then there was that whole superbowl thing.

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:34 PM
Burier, seriously did you really say this?




"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>



</P>


Page 6 of the "Eli Manning IS AN ELITE QB......" thread.</P>


This is who we are up against. He's more than an innocent Eli Cultist. he's an Eli Jihadist!</P>




lol. You can't make this up.

Imagine if we had Tim Tebow here.


And then 420 answering the post by saying that no other QB can do a spin move is downright hilarious. I didn't read no further than the 1st sentence.</P>


Well I like 420. I am having some difficulty warming to to burier though.</P>


I'm sure he'll say something charming soon and that will change.</P>

BornLegend
01-04-2012, 12:36 PM
Burier, seriously did you really say this?




"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>



</P>


Page 6 of the "Eli Manning IS AN ELITE QB......" thread.</P>


This is who we are up against.* He's more than an innocent Eli Cultist. he's an Eli Jihadist!</P>




lol.* You can't make this up.*

Imagine if we had Tim Tebow here.


And then 420 answering the post by saying that no other QB can do a spin move is downright hilarious. I didn't read no further than the 1st sentence.</P>


Well I like 420.* I am having some difficulty warming to to burier though.</P>


I'm sure he'll say something charming soon and that will change.</P>I like 420 too... one of my favorites on the board but sometimes he be going off on the deep end.

giantsfan420
01-04-2012, 12:41 PM
u got me confused, i didnt say no other qb could make that throw that was another poster.

i said that according to some views, when eli made that spin move, since he is this "completely new and different qb" he would have thrown it away bc the opinion of why eli is this "completely new and diff. qb is he throws the ball away once or twice more a game and he has better pocket presence", I have to admit tho i have yet to see another QB make that kind of play.

and Rosie and MS, I think its fine when u present ur views. But when I started reading the new threads from today here, I kind of got disappointed bc I had posted how it was me and some others trying to force our view onto u guys and that u guys just present ur stance and dont try to tell others they are wrong.

Guess I was wrong. You guys really have to make fun of some one bc they have a diff. opinion than you? Its clear that u guys are trying to like instigate or push ur opinion onto others...what gives guys?

Is the opinion that Eli is not this completely diff.qb who has never played this way that crazy to you? that maybe he just improved on a few things during the offseason that he knew he had to?
I can see ur points of view and while I feel a diff. way, I would only try and present why i feel that way. You guys are now doing what u felt so opposed to with some of the eli guys, u claimed they would label u bc u felt a diff. way....well what are u now doing to those with a diff. opinion than u? ur labeling, mocking, and telling them that their subjective opinion is wrong...cmon now u guys are better than that.

burier
01-04-2012, 12:45 PM
lol This thread is funny because it devolved into people quoting an unpopular comment I made in a completely different thread to distract from the fact that Rosie and and MS were being beaten to death in the thread with facts.

Since this has become something of a cluster **** I'll leave the thread like this:

Eli threw 25 last season which according to MS means he was terrible and this year He's great with 16 ints

His career average 17 so according to MS Eli's has been good over his career bar one down year in 2010.

Meh. I'll take it.

Have fun fellas.

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:52 PM
u got me confused, i didnt say no other qb could make that throw that was another poster. i said that according to some views, when eli made that spin move, since he is this "completely new and different qb" he would have thrown it away bc the opinion of why eli is this "completely new and diff. qb is he throws the ball away once or twice more a game and he has better pocket presence", I have to admit tho i have yet to see another QB make that kind of play. and Rosie and MS, I think its fine when u present ur views. But when I started reading the new threads from today here, I kind of got disappointed bc I had posted how it was me and some others trying to force our view onto u guys and that u guys just present ur stance and dont try to tell others they are wrong. Guess I was wrong. You guys really have to make fun of some one bc they have a diff. opinion than you? Its clear that u guys are trying to like instigate or push ur opinion onto others...what gives guys? Is the opinion that Eli is not this completely diff.qb who has never played this way that crazy to you? that maybe he just improved on a few things during the offseason that he knew he had to? I can see ur points of view and while I feel a diff. way, I would only try and present why i feel that way. You guys are now doing what u felt so opposed to with some of the eli guys, u claimed they would label u bc u felt a diff. way....well what are u now doing to those with a diff. opinion than u? ur labeling, mocking, and telling them that their subjective opinion is wrong...cmon now u guys are better than that.</P>


I don't have to make fun of people because they disagree with me. I choose to make fun of people because they disagree with me.</P>


Try it sometimes....life is too short to take all this stuff so seriously.</P>

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 12:53 PM
lol This thread is funny because it devolved into people quoting an unpopular comment I made in a completely different thread to distract from the fact that Rosie and and MS were being beaten to death in the thread with facts. Since this has become something of a cluster **** I'll leave the thread like this: Eli threw 25 last season which according to MS means he was terrible and this year He's great with 16 ints His career average 17 so according to MS Eli's has been good over his career bar one down year in 2010. Meh. I'll take it. Have fun fellas.</P>


Cut and run son.</P>

elismom
01-04-2012, 01:29 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?*

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


*</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>

Moore your out of your mind broooooooooooooooo. OUt of your mindddddddddddddddd!

of the picks last yr how many went off hands?
Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
4k yards 3 yrs in row, With rookkies and 2nd yr players
tds last 3 yrs
27-29-31
All along Gilbride stuffing the throwing game down our throat. They pushed eli hard and often.

LAST YR he had 13 picks off ppls hands. Led the league in drops

You guys are clowns and even when the time comes to step up your still clowns.

Eli=Elite. HAd he said it and he didn;t he would have been right.

U can't tie JO JO Montana for a SB record and not be great.

BOOOOOOOOOM

G-Man67
01-04-2012, 01:34 PM
imagine Jets fans reading this thread



they would think we were crazy, i think most Jets fans would give a kidney to have Eli as their QB ... even if they might not admit it ... everything is relative ... i say enjoy having a franchise QB, b/c i hate to predict this, but there will come a day when we don't ... Simms was not appreciated until fans saw Dave Brown, Danny Kanell, Tommy Maddox, Kent Graham, etc. ... then the light bulb went on and they realized how good they had it



don't be those fans, appreciate Easy E while you have him ... no QB is perfect, but i can't remember going into a game in recent history thinking that we had no chance of winning or that my QB just wasn't up to the challenge

NYG 5
01-04-2012, 01:35 PM
2008: veteran game manager
2009: gunslinger
2010: gunslinger
201w: precision passer, who occasionally throws the ball up there

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 01:52 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>


Moore your out of your mind broooooooooooooooo. OUt of your mindddddddddddddddd! of the picks last yr how many went off hands? Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan 4k yards 3 yrs in row, With rookkies and 2nd yr players tds last 3 yrs 27-29-31 All along Gilbride stuffing the throwing game down our throat. They pushed eli hard and often. LAST YR he had 13 picks off ppls hands. Led the league in drops You guys are clowns and even when the time comes to step up your still clowns. Eli=Elite. HAd he said it and he didn;t he would have been right. U can't tie JO JO Montana for a SB record and not be great. BOOOOOOOOOM</P>


The evaluation of the 2010 season via the mind of the Eli Cultist.........</P>


"Its always someone else's fault". </P>


"It wasn't Eli...it was the one armed man.........I mean it was the man behind the grassy knoll"</P>


."Eli is the constant victim of disloyal officers"..</P>


"Eli was simply taking orders from higher ups!"</P>


</P>


Now the Eli realist.........(like Good Ol' Morehead).........</P>


"Eli is responsible for his bad decisions and has done a good job in identifying them and correcting his mistakes with solid play this year"</P>


</P>

elismom
01-04-2012, 02:03 PM
Corny lines don't make you intellegient

I threw out stats, I threw out my opionins and pts


Take your ball and go home bro.
Corny

You'll be riding Eli to the NFC Champ Game I bet though, Corny

giantsfan420
01-04-2012, 02:07 PM
prefacing this with im only joking around;

as MS-The Eli cultists are everywhere! they're in my basement, in my car, in the TV, they're even in my head.
"all i hear is how Eli is progressing throughout his career and improved upon a couple things from last year" and its driving me crazy!

its never not eli's fault, we have the best players in the nfl surrounding him, he never makes throws that he has made in years prior.
anyone who has supported eli and claimed they knew he was as good as he is proven to be this year I'm gonna call them a cultist so I feel better about being wrong.

elismom
01-04-2012, 02:11 PM
Eli went through growing pains no dbout about it. And KG didn't allow him to sit back and hand the ball off which always baffled me. They just threw the ball and threw it often, Kinda what they are doing to Mark. Not sure if Sanchez can do it though. Bottom line is a few myself included always saw that hard work and dedication that he had would pay off. First to come, last to leave. The intangibles that Eli does that most players don't were going to pay off and clows like these continued to say we should tray alex smith and p willis for him.

FACT! ELI is headed to the HOF. FACT

Some dudes on this board would rather he didn't so they can be right. Whatever, Just clowns. Today Eli is maybe top all around players in the nfl.

AND YES I KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN!

BINGO

giantsfan420
01-04-2012, 02:13 PM
Eli went through growing pains no dbout about it. And KG didn't allow him to sit back and hand the ball off which always baffled me. They just threw the ball and threw it often, Kinda what they are doing to Mark. Not sure if Sanchez can do it though. Bottom line is a few myself included always saw that hard work and dedication that he had would pay off. First to come, last to leave. The intangibles that Eli does that most players don't were going to pay off and clows like these continued to say we should tray alex smith and p willis for him.

FACT! ELI is headed to the HOF. FACT

Some dudes on this board would rather he didn't so they can be right. Whatever, Just clowns. Today Eli is maybe top all around players in the nfl.

AND YES I KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN!

BINGO

while i dont know about all that, eli may very well be the most important player to a team in the nfl. flynn proved he could play if rodgers wasnt the qb. cassel went 11-5 when brady went down.

peyton and eli, i think the two most valuable players to there teams success. w.o eli this year, i honestly think we'd be a 5 team win at best.

elismom
01-04-2012, 02:24 PM
Eli went through growing pains no dbout about it. And KG didn't allow him to sit back and hand the ball off which always baffled me. They just threw the ball and threw it often, Kinda what they are doing to Mark. Not sure if Sanchez can do it though. Bottom line is a few myself included always saw that hard work and dedication that he had would pay off. First to come, last to leave. The intangibles that Eli does that most players don't were going to pay off and clows like these continued to say we should tray alex smith and p willis for him.

FACT! ELI is headed to the HOF. FACT

Some dudes on this board would rather he didn't so they can be right. Whatever, Just clowns. Today Eli is maybe top all around players in the nfl.

AND YES I KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN!

BINGO

while i dont know about all that, eli may very well be the most important player to a team in the nfl. flynn proved he could play if rodgers wasnt the qb. cassel went 11-5 when brady went down.

peyton and eli, i think the two most valuable players to there teams success. w.o eli this year, i honestly think we'd be a 5 team win at best.

Carried this team. And when he got cold before the Jets game you saw how we struggled. Eli has become the Center Piece of this team

lawl
01-04-2012, 02:41 PM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</P>


Now that's not fair play lawl.* That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing time*with one of them.*</P>


</P>


Except what lawl said was for the most part correct.* The problem with a lot of people and fans in general is that a player has a few good games and they start proclaiming him to be the best thing since sliced bread.* Ballard was essentially a nobody.* And who knows, he might still be a product of Eli playing the best ball of his career.</P>


Make no mistake that yourself and burier are in a league of your own when it comes to unhealthy Eli man love.* They need to make a dedicated Eli forum just for you two.</P>

This made me laugh.

lol Why can't I be a fan of the guy without manlove being involved?

Edit: And I want to stress since lawls post is now being quoted that I never suggested that we trade Chris Canty for a linebacker.

Yes you did. You said you would trade Osi and tuck to either trade up for a linebacker or for a proven one. You went on to say that if that wasn't enough you would throw in canty to sweeten the deal.

But let's get real, tuck and Osi for a linebacker is dumb enough to begin with.

As for RobC bringing up Ballard. He's still one of the worst TEs in the league.

burier
01-04-2012, 02:57 PM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</P>


Now that's not fair play lawl.* That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing time*with one of them.*</P>


</P>


Except what lawl said was for the most part correct.* The problem with a lot of people and fans in general is that a player has a few good games and they start proclaiming him to be the best thing since sliced bread.* Ballard was essentially a nobody.* And who knows, he might still be a product of Eli playing the best ball of his career.</P>


Make no mistake that yourself and burier are in a league of your own when it comes to unhealthy Eli man love.* They need to make a dedicated Eli forum just for you two.</P>

This made me laugh.

lol Why can't I be a fan of the guy without manlove being involved?

Edit: And I want to stress since lawls post is now being quoted that I never suggested that we trade Chris Canty for a linebacker.

Yes you did. You said you would trade Osi and tuck to either trade up for a linebacker or for a proven one. You went on to say that if that wasn't enough you would throw in canty to sweeten the deal.

But let's get real, tuck and Osi for a linebacker is dumb enough to begin with.

As for RobC bringing up Ballard. He's still one of the worst TEs in the league.

First of all get your facts straight.

Second of all if you don't realize that Osi needs to be traded, well I don't have time to explain the basics of football to you. But for starters teams gets 4 attempts to make a first down. Maybe put that in a google search or something and maybe you can find a pro football starter kit.

Third Tuck isn't producing. I know all is forgiven right now because he played a couple good games but lets not forget he took about 14 weeks off and we need a linebacker.

fourth when I mentioned trading Tuck and Osi it was simply what I would do. It wasn't a prediciton.

Fifth we need a linebacker. We need a game changing linebacker more than we need two DE's who show up half the time.

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:02 PM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</P>


Now that's not fair play lawl.* That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing time*with one of them.*</P>


</P>


Except what lawl said was for the most part correct.* The problem with a lot of people and fans in general is that a player has a few good games and they start proclaiming him to be the best thing since sliced bread.* Ballard was essentially a nobody.* And who knows, he might still be a product of Eli playing the best ball of his career.</P>


Make no mistake that yourself and burier are in a league of your own when it comes to unhealthy Eli man love.* They need to make a dedicated Eli forum just for you two.</P>

This made me laugh.

lol Why can't I be a fan of the guy without manlove being involved?

Edit: And I want to stress since lawls post is now being quoted that I never suggested that we trade Chris Canty for a linebacker.

Yes you did. You said you would trade Osi and tuck to either trade up for a linebacker or for a proven one. You went on to say that if that wasn't enough you would throw in canty to sweeten the deal.

But let's get real, tuck and Osi for a linebacker is dumb enough to begin with.

As for RobC bringing up Ballard. He's still one of the worst TEs in the league.

First of all get your facts straight.

Second of all if you don't realize that Osi needs to be traded, well I don't have time to explain the basics of football to you. But for starters teams gets 4 attempts to make a first down. Maybe put that in a google search or something and maybe you can find a pro football starter kit.

Third Tuck isn't producing. I know all is forgiven right now because he played a couple good games but lets not forget he took about 14 weeks off and we need a linebacker.

fourth when I mentioned trading Tuck and Osi it was simply what I would do. It wasn't a prediciton.

Fifth we need a linebacker. We need a game changing linebacker more than we need two DE's who show up half the time.

Wait what? What did you say above? Is that serious stuff? The only way we get to a SB is if Osi. Tuck and Canty carry us defensively. Eli can throw for 500000 yds but without those beasts we are nothing. We saw what we can do with Offense only. It doesn't win ish! Eli is fine and dandy but the D will get us a ring and the only way that happens if Osi, JPP, Canty, Tuck, Toff, Kiwi CRUSH QBS!!! OTherwise we havec no shot, Brees and Rodgers will pick us apart. AGAIN

NOw if you are on my side I then for the firs time am going anti eli. That ish above is just dumb!! Trade TUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys is hurt all yr and you want to tradee him! Young GIant Nation amuses me

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 03:08 PM
prefacing this with im only joking around; as MS-The Eli cultists are everywhere! they're in my basement, in my car, in the TV, they're even in my head. "all i hear is how Eli is progressing throughout his career and improved upon a couple things from last year" and its driving me crazy! its never not eli's fault, we have the best players in the nfl surrounding him, he never makes throws that he has made in years prior. anyone who has supported eli and claimed they knew he was as good as he is proven to be this year I'm gonna call them a cultist so I feel better about being wrong.</P>


"Took my Eli Cultist to a movie...didn't have to pay to get it in..</P>


Cultist, Cultist, roley poley Cultist</P>


Eli Cultists, eat em up..YUM!!!!"</P>

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 03:09 PM
Corny lines don't make you intellegient I threw out stats, I threw out my opionins and pts Take your ball and go home bro. Corny You'll be riding Eli to the NFC Champ Game I bet though, Corny</P>


Is it you view that stats tell the story?</P>

burier
01-04-2012, 03:22 PM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</P>


Now that's not fair play lawl.* That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing time*with one of them.*</P>


</P>


Except what lawl said was for the most part correct.* The problem with a lot of people and fans in general is that a player has a few good games and they start proclaiming him to be the best thing since sliced bread.* Ballard was essentially a nobody.* And who knows, he might still be a product of Eli playing the best ball of his career.</P>


Make no mistake that yourself and burier are in a league of your own when it comes to unhealthy Eli man love.* They need to make a dedicated Eli forum just for you two.</P>

This made me laugh.

lol Why can't I be a fan of the guy without manlove being involved?

Edit: And I want to stress since lawls post is now being quoted that I never suggested that we trade Chris Canty for a linebacker.

Yes you did. You said you would trade Osi and tuck to either trade up for a linebacker or for a proven one. You went on to say that if that wasn't enough you would throw in canty to sweeten the deal.

But let's get real, tuck and Osi for a linebacker is dumb enough to begin with.

As for RobC bringing up Ballard. He's still one of the worst TEs in the league.

First of all get your facts straight.

Second of all if you don't realize that Osi needs to be traded, well I don't have time to explain the basics of football to you. But for starters teams gets 4 attempts to make a first down. Maybe put that in a google search or something and maybe you can find a pro football starter kit.

Third Tuck isn't producing. I know all is forgiven right now because he played a couple good games but lets not forget he took about 14 weeks off and we need a linebacker.

fourth when I mentioned trading Tuck and Osi it was simply what I would do. It wasn't a prediciton.

Fifth we need a linebacker. We need a game changing linebacker more than we need two DE's who show up half the time.

Wait what? What did you say above? Is that serious stuff? The only way we get to a SB is if Osi. Tuck and Canty carry us defensively. Eli can throw for 500000 yds but without those beasts we are nothing. We saw what we can do with Offense only. It doesn't win ish! Eli is fine and dandy but the D will get us a ring and the only way that happens if Osi, JPP, Canty, Tuck, Toff, Kiwi CRUSH QBS!!! OTherwise we havec no shot, Brees and Rodgers will pick us apart. AGAIN

NOw if you are on my side I then for the firs time am going anti eli. That ish above is just dumb!! Trade TUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys is hurt all yr and you want to tradee him! Young GIant Nation amuses me

So the trade deadline has past so we can't move him this season right? So I hope Tuck continues to help us win this year.

But as I've said numerous times before the guy wasn't actually hurt this season. He said himself he was playing scared. He said himself that Coughlin gave him a pep-talk wich has magically and suddenly got the guy to put forth some effort.

I don't want guys that need the coach to pull them aside to remind them to play.

We've got a backlog of DE. As it stands we've got 4 starter/probowl quality DE's on the team and 1 decent linebacker.

the math does itself really.

It has nothing to do with Eli.

BlueSanta
01-04-2012, 03:26 PM
To the OP:

You should know by now that the Eli haters are never going to be gone. They will just remain quiet and hidden.

When we lose again(hopefully next year sometime) they will surface.

If Eli does continue to dominate forever, they will just create new screen names and pretend they were pro-Eli the whole time.

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:27 PM
Corny lines don't make you intellegient I threw out stats, I threw out my opionins and pts Take your ball and go home bro. Corny You'll be riding Eli to the NFC Champ Game I bet though, Corny</P>


Is it you view that stats tell the story?</P>

Did you take 1 tiny bit of a paragraph and use it to your advantage? What about the other sentences I wrote out?

Bro.....................I know football, not madden. As I am sure most do on this board. I played in the stadium baby for my HS champ. I played since IW as about 4. I haven't missed a game in ages, I don't miss our games. I actaully played with my bro in laws boys and scored 19 td's against a bunch of young bucks in there 20's. I am an old man at 33. I am a fan before Eli, I am a fan after he goes. The guy is the truth. I thought so since his bowl game his sr yr the momen evrery single announcer called him Peyton as he continued to drive his team up the field and score. Eli will go down as the greatest giant of all time and will be a HOF QB. What can I say?????? I mean I believe that and has done nothing but improve yr after yr. Its a team sport and I know it takes good d to win the big one but without a solid qb you can't dominate decades. The kid from 04 has the most wins in the nfc and has the longerst streak of starting. Hes stand up, practices the hardest. Comes early, leaves late. Don't rape woman. LOL come on man. This guy is straight FIREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. he has now rose to the top where I been saying he would be since the moment I got my ELISMOM NAME!

Eli hates. ISH ON YOUR FACE!

Hes here, and not leaving

burier
01-04-2012, 03:28 PM
To the OP:

You should know by now that the Eli haters are never going to be gone. They will just remain quiet and hidden.

When we lose again(hopefully next year sometime) they will surface.

If Eli does continue to dominate forever, they will just create new screen names and pretend they were pro-Eli the whole time.


+1

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:28 PM
Corny lines don't make you intellegient I threw out stats, I threw out my opionins and pts Take your ball and go home bro. Corny You'll be riding Eli to the NFC Champ Game I bet though, Corny</P>


Is it you view that stats tell the story?</P>

Did you take 1 tiny bit of a paragraph and use it to your advantage? What about the other sentences I wrote out?

Bro.....................I know football, not madden. As I am sure most do on this board. I played in the stadium baby for my HS champ. I played since IW as about 4. I haven't missed a game in ages, I don't miss our games. I actaully played with my bro in laws boys and scored 19 td's against a bunch of young bucks in there 20's. I am an old man at 33. I am a fan before Eli, I am a fan after he goes. The guy is the truth. I thought so since his bowl game his sr yr the momen evrery single announcer called him Peyton as he continued to drive his team up the field and score. Eli will go down as the greatest giant of all time and will be a HOF QB. What can I say?????? I mean I believe that and has done nothing but improve yr after yr. Its a team sport and I know it takes good d to win the big one but without a solid qb you can't dominate decades. The kid from 04 has the most wins in the nfc and has the longerst streak of starting. Hes stand up, practices the hardest. Comes early, leaves late. Don't rape woman. LOL come on man. This guy is straight FIREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. he has now rose to the top where I been saying he would be since the moment I got my ELISMOM NAME!

Eli hates. ISH ON YOUR FACE!

Hes here, and not leaving

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:29 PM
Burier thinks Eli is the best QB in the league. He also thinks it's a good idea to trade Osi tuck and canty for a linebacker. Know who you're conversing with.</P>


Now that's not fair play lawl.* That's like implying lawl is an idiot and shouldn't be conversed with becuase he says that Ballard is a nobody who couldn't even make another NFL team, let alone get any playing time*with one of them.*</P>


</P>


Except what lawl said was for the most part correct.* The problem with a lot of people and fans in general is that a player has a few good games and they start proclaiming him to be the best thing since sliced bread.* Ballard was essentially a nobody.* And who knows, he might still be a product of Eli playing the best ball of his career.</P>


Make no mistake that yourself and burier are in a league of your own when it comes to unhealthy Eli man love.* They need to make a dedicated Eli forum just for you two.</P>

This made me laugh.

lol Why can't I be a fan of the guy without manlove being involved?

Edit: And I want to stress since lawls post is now being quoted that I never suggested that we trade Chris Canty for a linebacker.

Yes you did. You said you would trade Osi and tuck to either trade up for a linebacker or for a proven one. You went on to say that if that wasn't enough you would throw in canty to sweeten the deal.

But let's get real, tuck and Osi for a linebacker is dumb enough to begin with.

As for RobC bringing up Ballard. He's still one of the worst TEs in the league.

First of all get your facts straight.

Second of all if you don't realize that Osi needs to be traded, well I don't have time to explain the basics of football to you. But for starters teams gets 4 attempts to make a first down. Maybe put that in a google search or something and maybe you can find a pro football starter kit.

Third Tuck isn't producing. I know all is forgiven right now because he played a couple good games but lets not forget he took about 14 weeks off and we need a linebacker.

fourth when I mentioned trading Tuck and Osi it was simply what I would do. It wasn't a prediciton.

Fifth we need a linebacker. We need a game changing linebacker more than we need two DE's who show up half the time.

Wait what? What did you say above? Is that serious stuff? The only way we get to a SB is if Osi. Tuck and Canty carry us defensively. Eli can throw for 500000 yds but without those beasts we are nothing. We saw what we can do with Offense only. It doesn't win ish! Eli is fine and dandy but the D will get us a ring and the only way that happens if Osi, JPP, Canty, Tuck, Toff, Kiwi CRUSH QBS!!! OTherwise we havec no shot, Brees and Rodgers will pick us apart. AGAIN

NOw if you are on my side I then for the firs time am going anti eli. That ish above is just dumb!! Trade TUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys is hurt all yr and you want to tradee him! Young GIant Nation amuses me

So the trade deadline has past so we can't move him this season right? So I hope Tuck continues to help us win this year.

But as I've said numerous times before the guy wasn't actually hurt this season. He said himself he was playing scared. He said himself that Coughlin gave him a pep-talk wich has magically and suddenly got the guy to put forth some effort.

I don't want guys that need the coach to pull them aside to remind them to play.

We've got a backlog of DE. As it stands we've got 4 starter/probowl quality DE's on the team and 1 decent linebacker.

the math does itself really.

It has nothing to do with Eli.

Well we also lost 4 backers to injury

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 03:33 PM
Corny lines don't make you intellegient I threw out stats, I threw out my opionins and pts Take your ball and go home bro. Corny You'll be riding Eli to the NFC Champ Game I bet though, Corny</P>


Is it you view that stats tell the story?</P>


Did you take 1 tiny bit of a paragraph and use it to your advantage? What about the other sentences I wrote out? Bro.....................I know football, not madden. As I am sure most do on this board. I played in the stadium baby for my HS champ. I played since IW as about 4. I haven't missed a game in ages, I don't miss our games. I actaully played with my bro in laws boys and scored 19 td's against a bunch of young bucks in there 20's. I am an old man at 33. I am a fan before Eli, I am a fan after he goes. The guy is the truth. I thought so since his bowl game his sr yr the momen evrery single announcer called him Peyton as he continued to drive his team up the field and score. Eli will go down as the greatest giant of all time and will be a HOF QB. What can I say?????? I mean I believe that and has done nothing but improve yr after yr. Its a team sport and I know it takes good d to win the big one but without a solid qb you can't dominate decades. The kid from 04 has the most wins in the nfc and has the longerst streak of starting. Hes stand up, practices the hardest. Comes early, leaves late. Don't rape woman. LOL come on man. This guy is straight FIREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. he has now rose to the top where I been saying he would be since the moment I got my ELISMOM NAME! Eli hates. ISH ON YOUR FACE! Hes here, and not leaving</P>


I didn't read them. Too many words.</P>

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 03:38 PM
u got me confused, i didnt say no other qb could make that throw that was another poster.

i said that according to some views, when eli made that spin move, since he is this "completely new and different qb" he would have thrown it away bc the opinion of why eli is this "completely new and diff. qb is he throws the ball away once or twice more a game and he has better pocket presence", I have to admit tho i have yet to see another QB make that kind of play.

and Rosie and MS, I think its fine when u present ur views. But when I started reading the new threads from today here, I kind of got disappointed bc I had posted how it was me and some others trying to force our view onto u guys and that u guys just present ur stance and dont try to tell others they are wrong.

Guess I was wrong. You guys really have to make fun of some one bc they have a diff. opinion than you? Its clear that u guys are trying to like instigate or push ur opinion onto others...<font size="4">what gives guys?</font>

Is the opinion that Eli is not this completely diff.qb who has never played this way that crazy to you? that maybe he just improved on a few things during the offseason that he knew he had to?
I can see ur points of view and while I feel a diff. way, I would only try and present why i feel that way. You guys are now doing what u felt so opposed to with some of the eli guys, u claimed they would label u bc u felt a diff. way....well what are u now doing to those with a diff. opinion than u? ur labeling, mocking, and telling them that their subjective opinion is wrong...cmon now u guys are better than that.

I'll discuss Eli civilly with anybody at any time. But it's the condescending "don't be ashamed eat crow" line that usually does it for me.

As I've stated numerous times, I (nor MS) has ever stated anything DEFINITIVE about Eli. Commenting on his play, whether good or bad, doesn't make one a "hater".

Did I think he played like during the pre-season and start of the season? Yes. I'm guilty. And guess what? He played like crap.

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 03:40 PM
you guys always have to battle with this and while it makes for entertaining posts it gets nutty. But I do enjoy it...</p>


When there are two different stories or opinions you can bet almost all the time that truth is in there between both sides. </p>


Eli is a very good QB and plays great at times. Is he the best in the league? At some things yes he is. Overall no he's not. Was last year a lousy year?? For the picks it was. Other wise it was a decent year for him. BUt picls make for a bad time for a QB. Heck this year he has 16 already. Thats aboput 6 too many for me. But on the flip side he is doing other things better then hehas had in the past. </p>


I dig him 100% as the Giants QB and always have but would I choose him to start my own team???</p>


Probably not. I would go with Rodgers, Brees, or Brady first. But thats just me. </p>


<font size="4">Also Eli doesnt have to be the best in the league.....he just has to help the Giants win which he does and then somein a big way.</font></p>




You're right this is totally bizarre to be having these conversations.

But I think you hit on something there.

That point is exactly right - and wrong at the same time.

For the realists it's right. All we care about is that he plays well enough for us to win.

But for others, that is not good enough. We must acknowledge his full greatness and admit that he's always been great!

Only then may you enter the fandom of Eli.




</p>


Thats it exactly. My problem was not with Eli near as much as it was with these cooky "If you don't think Eli is an all time great, you're an Eli hater" folks.</p>

Absolutely. We are pegged as haters because of our righteousness in keeping it real. [B]

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 03:46 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</p>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</p>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</p>


Now lets look at your position.......</p>


"I think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</p>


....Burier</p>


</p>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</p>

Moore your out of your mind broooooooooooooooo. OUt of your mindddddddddddddddd!

<font size="4">of the picks last yr how many went off hands?</font>
Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
4k yards 3 yrs in row, With rookkies and 2nd yr players
tds last 3 yrs
27-29-31
All along Gilbride stuffing the throwing game down our throat. They pushed eli hard and often.

LAST YR he had 13 picks off ppls hands. Led the league in drops

You guys are clowns and even when the time comes to step up your still clowns.

Eli=Elite. HAd he said it and he didn;t he would have been right.

U can't tie JO JO Montana for a SB record and not be great.

BOOOOOOOOOM

Decent passes get caught most of the time. High and behind not so much. But you know the game. Nobody needs to remind you, or maybe they do. Go watch 'em again.

Saying Eli is an elite quarterback is like saying you're an elite poster.

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:46 PM
you guys always have to battle with this and while it makes for entertaining posts it gets nutty. But I do enjoy it...</p>


When there are two different stories or opinions you can bet almost all the time that truth is in there between both sides. </p>


Eli is a very good QB and plays great at times. Is he the best in the league? At some things yes he is. Overall no he's not. Was last year a lousy year?? For the picks it was. Other wise it was a decent year for him. BUt picls make for a bad time for a QB. Heck this year he has 16 already. Thats aboput 6 too many for me. But on the flip side he is doing other things better then he*has had in the past. </p>


I dig him 100% as the Giants QB and always have but would I choose him to start my own team???</p>


Probably not. I would go with Rodgers, Brees, or Brady first. But thats just me. </p>


<font size="4">Also Eli doesnt have to be the best in the league.....he just has to help the Giants win which he does and then some*in a big way.</font></p>




You're right this is totally bizarre to be having these conversations.

But I think you hit on something there.

That point is exactly right - and wrong at the same time.

For the realists it's right.* All we care about is that he plays well enough for us to win.

But for others, that is not good enough.* We must acknowledge his full greatness and admit that he's always been great!

Only then may you enter the fandom of Eli.

*

*
</p>


Thats it exactly.* My problem was not with Eli near as much as it was with these cooky "If you don't think Eli is an all time great, you're an Eli hater" folks.</p>

Absolutely.* We are pegged as haters because of our righteousness in keeping it real.* [B]


Really Rosey?
Only one person outside of you beat up eli more and that was Harooni. Hes gone because he hated so much it looked like he was more about himself then the actually giants.

amdownwitjpp
01-04-2012, 03:47 PM
Corny lines don't make you intellegient I threw out stats, I threw out my opionins and pts Take your ball and go home bro. Corny You'll be riding Eli to the NFC Champ Game I bet though, Corny</P>


Is it you view that stats tell the story?</P>I am 30 and was here b4 Eli and will b long after also,some of theses ppl do not no football never played only watced on tv,sum ppl understand things like Mario faking out Eli ,ends up int. in end zone Skin game they blame the QB cuz they dont no the game,blame goes to Mario,I will admit that I have not been always an Eli lover so if you have big ups 100% love Eli today and have for a few seasons no? HOF,greatest GIANTQB ever by a long ways and he is not even done I am a huge L.T man in my heart he will be the greatest Giant ever but Eli is right next to him pick your posts cuz you wasted that with whoever cuz wut I read that you posted was the truth

Did you take 1 tiny bit of a paragraph and use it to your advantage? What about the other sentences I wrote out?

Bro.....................I know football, not madden. As I am sure most do on this board. I played in the stadium baby for my HS champ. I played since IW as about 4. I haven't missed a game in ages, I don't miss our games. I actaully played with my bro in laws boys and scored 19 td's against a bunch of young bucks in there 20's. I am an old man at 33. I am a fan before Eli, I am a fan after he goes. The guy is the truth. I thought so since his bowl game his sr yr the momen evrery single announcer called him Peyton as he continued to drive his team up the field and score. Eli will go down as the greatest giant of all time and will be a HOF QB. What can I say?????? I mean I believe that and has done nothing but improve yr after yr. Its a team sport and I know it takes good d to win the big one but without a solid qb you can't dominate decades. The kid from 04 has the most wins in the nfc and has the longerst streak of starting. Hes stand up, practices the hardest. Comes early, leaves late. Don't rape woman. LOL come on man. This guy is straight FIREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. he has now rose to the top where I been saying he would be since the moment I got my ELISMOM NAME!

Eli hates. ISH ON YOUR FACE!

Hes here, and not leaving

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:47 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?*

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</p>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</p>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</p>


Now lets look at your position.......</p>


"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</p>


....Burier</p>


*</p>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</p>

Moore your out of your mind broooooooooooooooo. OUt of your mindddddddddddddddd!

<font size="4">of the picks last yr how many went off hands?</font>
Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
4k yards 3 yrs in row, With rookkies and 2nd yr players
tds last 3 yrs
27-29-31
All along Gilbride stuffing the throwing game down our throat. They pushed eli hard and often.

LAST YR he had 13 picks off ppls hands. Led the league in drops

You guys are clowns and even when the time comes to step up your still clowns.

Eli=Elite. HAd he said it and he didn;t he would have been right.

U can't tie JO JO Montana for a SB record and not be great.

BOOOOOOOOOM

Decent passes get caught most of the time.* High and behind not so much.* But you know the game.* Nobody needs to remind you, or maybe they do.* Go watch 'em again.

Saying Eli is an elite quarterback is like saying you're an elite poster. **



youtube has a video that will just straight up smash this post. STRAIGHT SMASH IT. 2010 ELi interceptions. WATCH IT

crow served hot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:48 PM
hits hands you suppose to catch. at lest my coaches told me that since the 2nd grade

maybe you know something everyone in the world doesnt

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:51 PM
I just started to watch again. Am I nutts? Why am I wastint my time? 3 of the first 4 are no doubtes. Hakeem drops 2 that are so in his hands its crazy.

Now in 04-05 maybe even in 06 he had some incositent play but 2010 was insanely not his fault. watch that, come back and apologize to mommy

amdownwitjpp
01-04-2012, 03:52 PM
i have no idea how my post ended up in between these othrs but it started with I am 30

amdownwitjpp
01-04-2012, 03:57 PM
I luv Eli its te receivers though that are making him shine they have also made him look bad so its their job to redeem him at some point

burier
01-04-2012, 03:57 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?*

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</p>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</p>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</p>


Now lets look at your position.......</p>


"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</p>


....Burier</p>


*</p>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</p>

Moore your out of your mind broooooooooooooooo. OUt of your mindddddddddddddddd!

<font size="4">of the picks last yr how many went off hands?</font>
Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
4k yards 3 yrs in row, With rookkies and 2nd yr players
tds last 3 yrs
27-29-31
All along Gilbride stuffing the throwing game down our throat. They pushed eli hard and often.

LAST YR he had 13 picks off ppls hands. Led the league in drops

You guys are clowns and even when the time comes to step up your still clowns.

Eli=Elite. HAd he said it and he didn;t he would have been right.

U can't tie JO JO Montana for a SB record and not be great.

BOOOOOOOOOM

Decent passes get caught most of the time.* High and behind not so much.* But you know the game.* Nobody needs to remind you, or maybe they do.* Go watch 'em again.

Saying Eli is an elite quarterback is like saying you're an elite poster. **



youtube has a video that will just straight up smash this post. STRAIGHT SMASH IT. 2010 ELi interceptions. WATCH IT

crow served hot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

14 on Eli by my count...hmmm 2 less than this season.

elismom
01-04-2012, 03:58 PM
watching those 25 aggrivates me. Nicks could have had a better yr then nicks had this yr. hey listen there going to have there drops but some of nicks drops are just straight ugly!

Kudos to the boys this yr for having a pretty big yr. Nicks still drops the ball though, Cruz is getting much better

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 04:00 PM
Bro.....................I know football, not madden. As I am sure most do on this board. I played in the stadium baby for my HS champ.

Based on this premise pro players/coaches know more then you.

So tell us why they left Eli out of the pro bowl in '08 and '09 and out of the top 100 if he's been as great as you said.

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 04:06 PM
watching those 25 aggrivates me. Nicks could have had a better yr then nicks had this yr. hey listen there going to have there drops but some of nicks drops are just straight ugly!

Kudos to the boys this yr for having a pretty big yr. Nicks still drops the ball though, Cruz is getting much better

Out of the all the tipped passes only 1 or 2 hit the player in the numbers. All the rest are high, behind, in-front, etc.

That's reality.

Bet you were upset with Beckum too during the Jet game when Eli threw a laser at him 10 yards away?

The fact that all our players have had problems catching Eli's balls and it's all on them is absolutely ridiculous.

giantsfan420
01-04-2012, 04:08 PM
u got me confused, i didnt say no other qb could make that throw that was another poster.

i said that according to some views, when eli made that spin move, since he is this "completely new and different qb" he would have thrown it away bc the opinion of why eli is this "completely new and diff. qb is he throws the ball away once or twice more a game and he has better pocket presence", I have to admit tho i have yet to see another QB make that kind of play.

and Rosie and MS, I think its fine when u present ur views. But when I started reading the new threads from today here, I kind of got disappointed bc I had posted how it was me and some others trying to force our view onto u guys and that u guys just present ur stance and dont try to tell others they are wrong.

Guess I was wrong. You guys really have to make fun of some one bc they have a diff. opinion than you? Its clear that u guys are trying to like instigate or push ur opinion onto others...<font size="4">what gives guys?</font>

Is the opinion that Eli is not this completely diff.qb who has never played this way that crazy to you? that maybe he just improved on a few things during the offseason that he knew he had to?
I can see ur points of view and while I feel a diff. way, I would only try and present why i feel that way. You guys are now doing what u felt so opposed to with some of the eli guys, u claimed they would label u bc u felt a diff. way....well what are u now doing to those with a diff. opinion than u? ur labeling, mocking, and telling them that their subjective opinion is wrong...cmon now u guys are better than that.

I'll discuss Eli civilly with anybody at any time.* But it's the condescending "don't be ashamed eat crow" line that usually does it for me.*

As I've stated numerous times, I (nor MS) has ever stated anything DEFINITIVE about Eli.* Commenting on his play, whether good or bad, doesn't make one a "hater".

Did I think he played like during the pre-season and start of the season?* Yes.* I'm guilty.* And guess what?* He played like crap.*

*


i wasnt trying to be rude or anything just to make sure thats stated i think u got that, but in terms of ur opinion, i have no issue with it whatsoever.
i stated in another thread to robcarpenter that he needed to step back and reassess u as a poster and said that i was threatened bc i took ur opinion as a threat to my knowledge when really u were just presenting ur opinion and that u arent trying to force it on anyone.

this post u quoted, i was just kind of confused bc i saw u mocking some one else for their opinion, and doing to him what u claimed the eli "homers" were doing to u, thats all. i respect ur opinion and on a lot of aspects urs is valid. that said, no need to resort to the level that u had called out bc then u are no better than that. i just saw clear intent to mock and instigate and provoke the other poster simply bc his view was diff. than urs.

that said, this whole eli topic has gotten out of hand imo. happens to all of us including myself. its one thing to state and provide reasons for a stance, its another when it turns into provocation and instigation. thats all. no offense intended.

edit-and that applies to the pro eli homer crowd too including myself
edit2-and cmon now roosevelt u too make statements that entice others to get at it, the whole "i win again" when i apologized to u in a diff. thread made me pretty angry it took some restraint not to get back into it with u.

giantsfan420
01-04-2012, 04:11 PM
watching those 25 aggrivates me. Nicks could have had a better yr then nicks had this yr. hey listen there going to have there drops but some of nicks drops are just straight ugly!

Kudos to the boys this yr for having a pretty big yr. Nicks still drops the ball though, Cruz is getting much better

Out of the all the tipped passes only 1 or 2 hit the player in the numbers.* All the rest are high, behind, in-front, etc.

That's reality.*

Bet you were upset with Beckum too during the Jet game when Eli threw a laser at him 10 yards away?

The fact that all our players have had problems catching Eli's balls and it's all on them is absolutely ridiculous.

*


i admit some of the passes that got tipped were bad throws. but there were quite a few that were extremely catchable and ended up going thru the wr's hands, or the wr tipped it up.
by my count, and its subjective, 6-8 of the ints were fairly well thrown, and should have at worst been incomplete.

odd bc that puts him at 16-19 ints, which would have made last year almost identical to this year...

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 04:13 PM
you guys always have to battle with this and while it makes for entertaining posts it gets nutty. But I do enjoy it...</p>


When there are two different stories or opinions you can bet almost all the time that truth is in there between both sides. </p>


Eli is a very good QB and plays great at times. Is he the best in the league? At some things yes he is. Overall no he's not. Was last year a lousy year?? For the picks it was. Other wise it was a decent year for him. BUt picls make for a bad time for a QB. Heck this year he has 16 already. Thats aboput 6 too many for me. But on the flip side he is doing other things better then hehas had in the past. </p>


I dig him 100% as the Giants QB and always have but would I choose him to start my own team???</p>


Probably not. I would go with Rodgers, Brees, or Brady first. But thats just me. </p>


<font size="4">Also Eli doesnt have to be the best in the league.....he just has to help the Giants win which he does and then somein a big way.</font></p>




You're right this is totally bizarre to be having these conversations.

But I think you hit on something there.

That point is exactly right - and wrong at the same time.

For the realists it's right. All we care about is that he plays well enough for us to win.

But for others, that is not good enough. We must acknowledge his full greatness and admit that he's always been great!

Only then may you enter the fandom of Eli.




</p>


Thats it exactly. My problem was not with Eli near as much as it was with these cooky "If you don't think Eli is an all time great, you're an Eli hater" folks.</p>

Absolutely. We are pegged as haters because of our righteousness in keeping it real. [B]


Really Rosey?
Only one person outside of you beat up eli more and that was Harooni. Hes gone because he hated so much it looked like he was more about himself then the actually giants.

I was rough on him the start of this season, and rightfully so. Despite decent passing stats I thought he was terrible in 2010 and expected more out of him - like what we've seen this year.

I haven't said anything negative about him since. I acknowledged he had 2 flat games against the Skins and the Jets and he answered vs the Cowboys.

I have no issues with Eli Manning. I like him a lot. With that said, he did leave me scratching my head most of last year.

wideright91
01-04-2012, 04:16 PM
Yes.

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 04:18 PM
u got me confused, i didnt say no other qb could make that throw that was another poster.

i said that according to some views, when eli made that spin move, since he is this "completely new and different qb" he would have thrown it away bc the opinion of why eli is this "completely new and diff. qb is he throws the ball away once or twice more a game and he has better pocket presence", I have to admit tho i have yet to see another QB make that kind of play.

and Rosie and MS, I think its fine when u present ur views. But when I started reading the new threads from today here, I kind of got disappointed bc I had posted how it was me and some others trying to force our view onto u guys and that u guys just present ur stance and dont try to tell others they are wrong.

Guess I was wrong. You guys really have to make fun of some one bc they have a diff. opinion than you? Its clear that u guys are trying to like instigate or push ur opinion onto others...<font size="4">what gives guys?</font>

Is the opinion that Eli is not this completely diff.qb who has never played this way that crazy to you? that maybe he just improved on a few things during the offseason that he knew he had to?
I can see ur points of view and while I feel a diff. way, I would only try and present why i feel that way. You guys are now doing what u felt so opposed to with some of the eli guys, u claimed they would label u bc u felt a diff. way....well what are u now doing to those with a diff. opinion than u? ur labeling, mocking, and telling them that their subjective opinion is wrong...cmon now u guys are better than that.

I'll discuss Eli civilly with anybody at any time. But it's the condescending "don't be ashamed eat crow" line that usually does it for me.

As I've stated numerous times, I (nor MS) has ever stated anything DEFINITIVE about Eli. Commenting on his play, whether good or bad, doesn't make one a "hater".

Did I think he played like during the pre-season and start of the season? Yes. I'm guilty. And guess what? He played like crap.




i wasnt trying to be rude or anything just to make sure thats stated i think u got that, but in terms of ur opinion, i have no issue with it whatsoever.
i stated in another thread to robcarpenter that he needed to step back and reassess u as a poster and said that i was threatened bc i took ur opinion as a threat to my knowledge when really u were just presenting ur opinion and that u arent trying to force it on anyone.

this post u quoted, i was just kind of confused bc i saw u mocking some one else for their opinion, and doing to him what u claimed the eli "homers" were doing to u, thats all. i respect ur opinion and on a lot of aspects urs is valid. that said, no need to resort to the level that u had called out bc then u are no better than that. i just saw clear intent to mock and instigate and provoke the other poster simply bc his view was diff. than urs.

that said, this whole eli topic has gotten out of hand imo. happens to all of us including myself. its one thing to state and provide reasons for a stance, its another when it turns into provocation and instigation. thats all. no offense intended.

edit-and that applies to the pro eli homer crowd too including myself
edit2-and cmon now roosevelt u too make statements that entice others to get at it, the whole "i win again" when i apologized to u in a diff. thread made me pretty angry it took some restraint not to get back into it with u.

Thanks man. I'm cool with you too. You are someone that can debate civilly and for that reason I respect your appreciation of Eli even if it's different then mine.

giantsfan420
01-04-2012, 04:26 PM
u got me confused, i didnt say no other qb could make that throw that was another poster.

i said that according to some views, when eli made that spin move, since he is this "completely new and different qb" he would have thrown it away bc the opinion of why eli is this "completely new and diff. qb is he throws the ball away once or twice more a game and he has better pocket presence", I have to admit tho i have yet to see another QB make that kind of play.

and Rosie and MS, I think its fine when u present ur views. But when I started reading the new threads from today here, I kind of got disappointed bc I had posted how it was me and some others trying to force our view onto u guys and that u guys just present ur stance and dont try to tell others they are wrong.

Guess I was wrong. You guys really have to make fun of some one bc they have a diff. opinion than you? Its clear that u guys are trying to like instigate or push ur opinion onto others...<font size="4">what gives guys?</font>

Is the opinion that Eli is not this completely diff.qb who has never played this way that crazy to you? that maybe he just improved on a few things during the offseason that he knew he had to?
I can see ur points of view and while I feel a diff. way, I would only try and present why i feel that way. You guys are now doing what u felt so opposed to with some of the eli guys, u claimed they would label u bc u felt a diff. way....well what are u now doing to those with a diff. opinion than u? ur labeling, mocking, and telling them that their subjective opinion is wrong...cmon now u guys are better than that.

I'll discuss Eli civilly with anybody at any time.* But it's the condescending "don't be ashamed eat crow" line that usually does it for me.*

As I've stated numerous times, I (nor MS) has ever stated anything DEFINITIVE about Eli.* Commenting on his play, whether good or bad, doesn't make one a "hater".

Did I think he played like during the pre-season and start of the season?* Yes.* I'm guilty.* And guess what?* He played like crap.*

*


i wasnt trying to be rude or anything just to make sure thats stated i think u got that, but in terms of ur opinion, i have no issue with it whatsoever.
i stated in another thread to robcarpenter that he needed to step back and reassess u as a poster and said that i was threatened bc i took ur opinion as a threat to my knowledge when really u were just presenting ur opinion and that u arent trying to force it on anyone.

this post u quoted, i was just kind of confused bc i saw u mocking some one else for their opinion, and doing to him what u claimed the eli "homers" were doing to u, thats all. i respect ur opinion and on a lot of aspects urs is valid. that said, no need to resort to the level that u had called out bc then u are no better than that. i just saw clear intent to mock and instigate and provoke the other poster simply bc his view was diff. than urs.

that said, this whole eli topic has gotten out of hand imo. happens to all of us including myself. its one thing to state and provide reasons for a stance, its another when it turns into provocation and instigation. thats all. no offense intended.

edit-and that applies to the pro eli homer crowd too including myself
edit2-and cmon now roosevelt u too make statements that entice others to get at it, the whole "i win again" when i apologized to u in a diff. thread made me pretty angry it took some restraint not to get back into it with u.

Thanks man.* I'm cool with you too.* You are someone that can debate civilly and for that reason I respect your appreciation of Eli even if it's different then mine.



yeah i respect ur opinion too and in a lot of ways its valid.
its bc when we communicate through the internet, when some one has a diff. view, it can appear as a challenge to ones knowledge and that becomes the basis for most of the back and forth. but in your case u mostly dont to that at all, ur just presenting ur opinion. again apologies to for disrespecting u in the past, my bad. that said, back to the OP,
like u were saying and others, u guys never werent "won over" by eli, u guys had valid points and concerns, and i for one think that elis play has put any question to his talent, drive, ability, and performance to rest.

we still got the playoffs tho and i for one would really like to see a lil more consistency not only from eli but the whole team. besides that magical run in 07, we havent made any noise in the playoffs, and with the talent we have at qb, wr, dl, and to an extent the db's, that should absolutely not be the case.

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 04:28 PM
watching those 25 aggrivates me. Nicks could have had a better yr then nicks had this yr. hey listen there going to have there drops but some of nicks drops are just straight ugly!

Kudos to the boys this yr for having a pretty big yr. Nicks still drops the ball though, Cruz is getting much better

Out of the all the tipped passes only 1 or 2 hit the player in the numbers. All the rest are high, behind, in-front, etc.

That's reality.

Bet you were upset with Beckum too during the Jet game when Eli threw a laser at him 10 yards away?

The fact that all our players have had problems catching Eli's balls and it's all on them is absolutely ridiculous.




i admit some of the passes that got tipped were bad throws. but there were quite a few that were extremely catchable and ended up going thru the wr's hands, or the wr tipped it up.
by my count, and its subjective, 6-8 of the ints were fairly well thrown, and should have at worst been incomplete.

odd bc that puts him at 16-19 ints, which would have made last year almost identical to this year...

I agree that they were "catchable" to our eyes, but I was listening to a game the Simms called earlier in the year and Eli made a pass that deflected off our receivers hands. I didn't notice anything but that tipped pass, and based on what I saw the receiver should have caught it. But Phil made a point to say how it came out of Eli's hand "funny" or sideways.

Now as you may know Phil is very knowledgeable about passing and even wrote a book on it. So while we all believe "if you can get 2 hands on it...." it's obviously not that simple.

Nicks has huge hands, fantastic hands. Plax has fantastic hands. So why do so many players have trouble with Eli's passes?

Now I'm not telling anybody what to think. But I keep an open mind on it. I believe well thrown balls get caught.

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 04:32 PM
I have to tell you, a guy posted a video of all 25 of Eli's picks last year. He was trying to prove that many were tipped balls. And certainly many were. But I was struck by just how horrible most of the other picks were. The decision making was so rookie-like. He thought he was making a point about tipped passes, and instead was making my point for me about how poor Eli's decision making was last year.</P>


Its the decison making that was the problem last year. I don't care how many, or how few Int's he threw.</P>


Now I'm back to the Falcon MB's, telling them how great our QB is. (those poor Falcon fans...all 7 of them)</P>

Delicreep
01-04-2012, 04:46 PM
...what is wrong with you people?!?

And by that I mean...seriously, what is wrong with you people!?!

byron
01-04-2012, 04:52 PM
...what is wrong with you people?!? And by that I mean...seriously, what is wrong with you people!?! lol !

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 04:57 PM
...what is wrong with you people?!? And by that I mean...seriously, what is wrong with you people!?!</P>


Geez! Where do I start?</P>

SEC105
01-04-2012, 05:03 PM
...what is wrong with you people?!? And by that I mean...seriously, what is wrong with you people!?!</P>


Geez! Where do I start?</P>


</P>


He's freaking right......do you even KNOW we BEAT the Cowboys Sunday night.....we're in the playoffs people can leave here for 3 days 3 weeks 3 months</P>


Groundhog Day IS NOT real life!!!!!! lol</P>

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 05:10 PM
...what is wrong with you people?!? And by that I mean...seriously, what is wrong with you people!?!</P>


Geez! Where do I start?</P>


</P>


He's freaking right......do you even KNOW we BEAT the Cowboys Sunday night.....we're in the playoffs people can leave here for 3 days 3 weeks 3 months</P>


Groundhog Day IS NOT real life!!!!!! lol</P>


</P>


I love ya 105 but this subject will never be put to rest. If there were MB's 25 years ago we'd be having the same never ending conversation about Phil.</P>


Eli seems to bring out emotions. You really don't have to read it if you don't want to.</P>


And read the OP's tag line. Aint no ignoring that.</P>

SEC105
01-04-2012, 05:14 PM
...what is wrong with you people?!? And by that I mean...seriously, what is wrong with you people!?!</P>


Geez! Where do I start?</P>


</P>


He's freaking right......do you even KNOW we BEAT the Cowboys Sunday night.....we're in the playoffs people can leave here for 3 days 3 weeks 3 months</P>


Groundhog Day IS NOT real life!!!!!! lol</P>


</P>


I love ya 105 but this subject will never be put to rest. If there were MB's 25 years ago we'd be having the same never ending conversation about Phil.</P>


Eli seems to bring out emotions. You really don't have to read it if you don't want to.</P>


And read the OP's tag line. Aint no ignoring that.</P>


</P>


How about a Giant Fan truce???......until...saaaaay 7 this Sunday night lol</P>


http://blog.ticketchest.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/new-york-giants-eli-manning-beat-dallas-cowboys-tony-romo.jpg</P>

Morehead State
01-04-2012, 06:22 PM
...what is wrong with you people?!? And by that I mean...seriously, what is wrong with you people!?!</P>


Geez! Where do I start?</P>


</P>


He's freaking right......do you even KNOW we BEAT the Cowboys Sunday night.....we're in the playoffs people can leave here for 3 days 3 weeks 3 months</P>


Groundhog Day IS NOT real life!!!!!! lol</P>


</P>


I love ya 105 but this subject will never be put to rest. If there were MB's 25 years ago we'd be having the same never ending conversation about Phil.</P>


Eli seems to bring out emotions. You really don't have to read it if you don't want to.</P>


And read the OP's tag line. Aint no ignoring that.</P>


</P>


How about a Giant Fan truce???......until...saaaaay 7 this Sunday night lol</P>


http://blog.ticketchest.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/new-york-giants-eli-manning-beat-dallas-cowboys-tony-romo.jpg</P>


</P>


I was never at war my friend.</P>

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 07:59 PM
u got me confused, i didnt say no other qb could make that throw that was another poster.

i said that according to some views, when eli made that spin move, since he is this "completely new and different qb" he would have thrown it away bc the opinion of why eli is this "completely new and diff. qb is he throws the ball away once or twice more a game and he has better pocket presence", I have to admit tho i have yet to see another QB make that kind of play.

and Rosie and MS, I think its fine when u present ur views. But when I started reading the new threads from today here, I kind of got disappointed bc I had posted how it was me and some others trying to force our view onto u guys and that u guys just present ur stance and dont try to tell others they are wrong.

Guess I was wrong. You guys really have to make fun of some one bc they have a diff. opinion than you? Its clear that u guys are trying to like instigate or push ur opinion onto others...<font size="4">what gives guys?</font>

Is the opinion that Eli is not this completely diff.qb who has never played this way that crazy to you? that maybe he just improved on a few things during the offseason that he knew he had to?
I can see ur points of view and while I feel a diff. way, I would only try and present why i feel that way. You guys are now doing what u felt so opposed to with some of the eli guys, u claimed they would label u bc u felt a diff. way....well what are u now doing to those with a diff. opinion than u? ur labeling, mocking, and telling them that their subjective opinion is wrong...cmon now u guys are better than that.

I'll discuss Eli civilly with anybody at any time. But it's the condescending "don't be ashamed eat crow" line that usually does it for me.

As I've stated numerous times, I (nor MS) has ever stated anything DEFINITIVE about Eli. Commenting on his play, whether good or bad, doesn't make one a "hater".

Did I think he played like during the pre-season and start of the season? Yes. I'm guilty. And guess what? He played like crap.




i wasnt trying to be rude or anything just to make sure thats stated i think u got that, but in terms of ur opinion, i have no issue with it whatsoever.
i stated in another thread to robcarpenter that he needed to step back and reassess u as a poster and said that i was threatened bc i took ur opinion as a threat to my knowledge when really u were just presenting ur opinion and that u arent trying to force it on anyone.

this post u quoted, i was just kind of confused bc i saw u mocking some one else for their opinion, and doing to him what u claimed the eli "homers" were doing to u, thats all. i respect ur opinion and on a lot of aspects urs is valid. that said, no need to resort to the level that u had called out bc then u are no better than that. i just saw clear intent to mock and instigate and provoke the other poster simply bc his view was diff. than urs.

that said, this whole eli topic has gotten out of hand imo. happens to all of us including myself. its one thing to state and provide reasons for a stance, its another when it turns into provocation and instigation. thats all. no offense intended.

edit-and that applies to the pro eli homer crowd too including myself
edit2-and cmon now roosevelt u too make statements that entice others to get at it, the whole "i win again" when i apologized to u in a diff. thread made me pretty angry it took some restraint not to get back into it with u.

Thanks man. I'm cool with you too. You are someone that can debate civilly and for that reason I respect your appreciation of Eli even if it's different then mine.



yeah i respect ur opinion too and in a lot of ways its valid.
its bc when we communicate through the internet, when some one has a diff. view, it can appear as a challenge to ones knowledge and that becomes the basis for most of the back and forth. but in your case u mostly dont to that at all, ur just presenting ur opinion. again apologies to for disrespecting u in the past, my bad. that said, back to the OP,
like u were saying and others, u guys never werent "won over" by eli, u guys had valid points and concerns, and i for one think that elis play has put any question to his talent, drive, ability, and performance to rest.

we still got the playoffs tho and i for one would really like to see a lil more consistency not only from eli but the whole team. besides that magical run in 07, we havent made any noise in the playoffs, and with the talent we have at qb, wr, dl, and to an extent the db's, that should absolutely not be the case.

I think what happens when someone adamantly defends their position on a message board is that it can be misconstrued as an "extreme" stance when in reality that may not be the case. It's simply may be the repeated points being made with a number of people that lead to that perception.

As far as Eli goes, I believe his performance this year puts any questions anyone had of him to rest like you said.

I'm just happy to being playing this week when so many other teams aren't. I feel pretty good about this group and think we'll live to play again the following week.

gumby742
01-04-2012, 09:16 PM
The players around him have caught up. Since the SB Eli has been lights out. Last yr if you knew football you would see that his. Eli went through his learning pains and most didn't want that. They want instant gratification. Eli has been real good since the gate. The audible against dallas to Tiki should have been the eye opener. He has a huge set on him and he is not afraid to pull the trigger. It happened in his first vicotry in the example above and it happened with Cruz this weekend. Some ppl just don't know football Rose-your one of them

You actually want me to take you seriously?

He's been lights out since the SB - Either you don't know the meaning of the words or your standards are very low.

Eli has been real good since the gate - Yes, and he's been real bad too, hence the issue.

The audible against Dallas... - It's very convenient to site positive examples, but how about a little balance acknowledging the mistakes?*

If "knowing" football is simply about wearing rose colored glasses as it is for you, you are absolutely right, I don't.
lets not confuse the issue. You were wrong about Eli. You have plenty of company in that regard so its nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it and move on.</P>


Eli played lousy last year....Morehead and Rosie correct.</P>


Eli is playing great this year.....Morehead and Rosie correct again.</P>


Now lets look at your position.......</P>


"I *think Eli is the best QB in the league. I think he's been there for years not but has made that finaly step that makes me feel like there's no one out there who's better.

I've said this before but he makes throws that the other guys in the top teir can't make. "
</P>


....Burier</P>


*</P>


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</P>


without that Caps I'll just tell you that I'm laughing at you because you're a really old grown man and you let television personalities dictate your opinion. Who's better than Eli? Is Brady Better than Eli? I'd assume you've seen your fair share of Brady living in Mass and all. What's Brady do that is so much better than What Eli does. I've seen them on the field at the same time more than once and Brady has yet to look any better than Eli. Is Rogers better? No doubt Rogers stats are really nice this year but again they looked really close when they were on the field together this season. Is Brees better? His stats are really nice this season too and he did blow our doors off so.. Of course Rex Grossman beat us down pretty bad twice. But I don't think he's better than Eli. I think there's an argument to be made that 3 active QBs are better than Eli but I dissagree with those arguments. I'm just ahead of the curve. Just like I predicted at the begining of the season that everyone would eat their words about Eli. Its because I watch the game and draw my own conclusions. I don't wait for ESPN to tell me what to do. So next season when Eli is being Praised as maybe the best QB around what will you say? His footwork is better? He's putting better velocity on the ball? The baby Jaysus bless his throwing arm? What will GMBs own revisionist historian come up with next?</P>


Peyton, Brees, Brady and Rodgers.</P>


Wake me up when you have an original thought.</P>


Doing the exact same thing over and over and expecting a different result is no longer the definition of insanity.* Its now being "ahead of the curve".</P>


*</P>


I crack myself up!</P>

Haha. Thanks for this. Had a rough day at work today.

Drez
01-04-2012, 09:39 PM
I think what happens when someone adamantly defends their position on a message board is that it can be misconstrued as an "extreme" stance when in reality that may not be the case. It's simply may be the repeated points being made with a number of people that lead to that perception.</P>


I think what also happens is that after repeatedly getting into debates on the same subject over and over, particularly ones as charged as those about Eli, is that gradually people actually begin to assume more radical positions(or at least argue from them... they may not be completely committed to the more radical position).</P>


Kind of like this (but imagine 10 iterations between each change of position):</P>


Poster A: I think Eli is pretty good.
Poster B: I don't think Eli is pretty good.
A: I think Eli is very good.
B: I think Eli isn't good at all.
A: I think Eli is excellent.
B: I think Eli is deficient.
A: I think Eli is one of the greats.
B: Eli is a goober that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, who's only in the NFL because of his last name.
A: Eli is the best.
B: Homer.
A: Troll.
B: Your mom.
A: No, your mom.
Mod: Keep it civil, boys.
A: Ok, sorry.
B: Ok, sorry.</P>


To be repeated in a thread later that week.</P>

Voldamort
01-04-2012, 09:55 PM
Since 2007 the guy has been our best player!!!

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 10:42 PM
I think what happens when someone adamantly defends their position on a message board is that it can be misconstrued as an "extreme" stance when in reality that may not be the case. It's simply may be the repeated points being made with a number of people that lead to that perception.</p>


I think what also happens is that after repeatedly getting into debates on the same subject over and over, particularly ones as charged as those about Eli, is that gradually people actually begin to assume more radical positions(or at least argue from them... they may not be completely committed to the more radical position).</p>


Kind of like this (but imagine 10 iterations between each change of position):</p>


Poster A: I think Eli is pretty good.
Poster B: I don't think Eli is pretty good.
A: I think Eli is very good.
B: I think Eli isn't good at all.
A: I think Eli is excellent.
B: I think Eli is deficient.
A: I think Eli is one of the greats.
B: Eli is a goober that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, who's only in the NFL because of his last name.
A: Eli is the best.
B: Homer.
A: Troll.
B: Your mom.
A: No, your mom.
Mod: Keep it civil, boys.
A: Ok, sorry.
B: Ok, sorry.</p>


To be repeated in a thread later that week.</p>

Exactly.

Roosevelt
01-04-2012, 10:43 PM
Since 2007 the guy has been our best player!!!

Don't get me started!

Sarcasman
01-04-2012, 11:29 PM
Ive never been an Eli hater....always loved the kid...

but I have always stated that Simms was better...

these past 2 weeks have just started to change my mind

I truly believe .....and Im not afraid to say it.....that I saw Eli do some things.....make some throws in these past 2 games under pressure and off balance....that Im not sure Simms would have made...

we are truly lucky to have this kid

he is an absolutely fantastic QB and anyone who thinks otherwise hit me up and I will give you about 10 specific plays in the past 2 weeks that may just change your mind

there have been throws in these past 2 games that maybe.....MAYBE.....2 other QBs in the league make....maybe

simply remarkable play by the QB
This throw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvFKVrkNhO0&hd=1

Thanks, Redeye; that's the throw I was talking in about in one of the other 16 or 17 Eli threads the other day.

Sarcasman
01-04-2012, 11:37 PM
2008: veteran game manager
2009: gunslinger
2010: gunslinger
201w: precision passer, who occasionally throws the ball up there


For context, I'd be interested in your take on Collins.

Sarcasman
01-04-2012, 11:41 PM
Corny lines don't make you intellegient I threw out stats, I threw out my opionins and pts Take your ball and go home bro. Corny You'll be riding Eli to the NFC Champ Game I bet though, Corny</P>


Is it you view that stats tell the story?</P>

Did you take 1 tiny bit of a paragraph and use it to your advantage? What about the other sentences I wrote out?


Eli hates. ISH ON YOUR FACE!

Hes here, and not leaving


Geez, listen to the mouth on Eli's Mom. I hope she doesn't kiss him with that mouth

RobCarpenter
01-04-2012, 11:56 PM
Corny lines don't make you intellegient I threw out stats, I threw out my opionins and pts Take your ball and go home bro. Corny You'll be riding Eli to the NFC Champ Game I bet though, Corny</P>


Is it you view that stats tell the story?</P>


Did you take 1 tiny bit of a paragraph and use it to your advantage? What about the other sentences I wrote out? Eli hates. ISH ON YOUR FACE! Hes here, and not leaving Geez, listen to the mouth on Eli's Mom. I hope she doesn't kiss him with that mouth</P>


elismom is great. I beat she could even whip Tolly's Mom.</P>


</P>

RobCarpenter
01-04-2012, 11:58 PM
I think what happens when someone adamantly defends their position on a message board is that it can be misconstrued as an "extreme" stance when in reality that may not be the case. It's simply may be the repeated points being made with a number of people that lead to that perception.</P>


I think what also happens is that after repeatedly getting into debates on the same subject over and over, particularly ones as charged as those about Eli, is that gradually people actually begin to assume more radical positions(or at least argue from them... they may not be completely committed to the more radical position).</P>


Kind of like this (but imagine 10 iterations between each change of position):</P>


Poster A: I think Eli is pretty good.
Poster B: I don't think Eli is pretty good.
A: I think Eli is very good.
B: I think Eli isn't good at all.
A: I think Eli is excellent.
B: I think Eli is deficient.
A: I think Eli is one of the greats.
B: Eli is a goober that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, who's only in the NFL because of his last name.
A: Eli is the best.
B: Homer.
A: Troll.
B: Your mom.
A: No, your mom.
Mod: Keep it civil, boys.
A: Ok, sorry.
B: Ok, sorry.</P>


To be repeated in a thread later that week.</P>


Haha, good one!</P>


Could you a version loaded with back-handed compliments and other passive-agressive tactics to simulate a harooni Eli thread?</P>

giantsfan420
01-05-2012, 01:44 AM
i dont know where else to put this and didnt want to start a new thread about it, but i'd like to bring up the play vs dallas in the 4th that set up the nicks td.

the pass was to nicks on a 3rd down, watch that play and tell me that wasnt one of the hardest, best strikes a qb can make. rewatching that play, dang, what a bullet. right on the numbers, threading a needle, strike. best thrown ball i've seen from a qb all year, (eli homerism yes i know)

HAMMERHEDD
01-05-2012, 02:10 AM
I have not converted. I think Eli is clutch. Actually, he is transcendentally clutch. He also makes too many poor reads, poor throws, and fails to see the whole field too often. He does enough good things to put him in the top 10. He is among the best QB's the Giants have ever had. If he was elite, he wouldn't need to be so clutch, however.

giantsfan420
01-05-2012, 02:12 AM
I have not converted. I think Eli is clutch. Actually, he is transcendentally clutch. He also makes too many poor reads, poor throws, and fails to see the whole field too often. He does enough good things to put him in the top 10. He is among the best QB's the Giants have ever had. If he was elite, he wouldn't need to be so clutch, however.

riiiiiiigggghhhhhhhttttttttt.

being clutch means he isn't elite. elite qb's arent' clutch bc if they are it means they are bad. your certainly entitled to your opinion, i feel it is in the minority and that you cannot substantiate it with proof or fact tho. i'd say i think the opposite of what u posted would be how i feel and actually substantiated.

sec318row5
01-05-2012, 03:05 AM
Funny- -Simms haters were the same way-

By the time his career is over Eli will have every Giant QB record in the book- - good and bad-

"You dont know what you got till its gone"

gumby742
01-05-2012, 08:37 AM
i dont know where else to put this and didnt want to start a new thread about it, but i'd like to bring up the play vs dallas in the 4th that set up the nicks td. the pass was to nicks on a 3rd down, watch that play and tell me that wasnt one of the hardest, best strikes a qb can make. rewatching that play, dang, what a bullet. right on the numbers, threading a needle, strike. best thrown ball i've seen from a qb all year, (eli homerism yes i know)</P>


lol. Eli's made plenty more throws that were twice as hard. That pass to Nicks - any top tier QB should make. Nicks was open.</P>


Edit: Funny you mentioned "right on the numbers".</P>

elismom
01-05-2012, 09:23 AM
I think what happens when someone adamantly defends their position on a message board is that it can be misconstrued as an "extreme" stance when in reality that may not be the case.* It's simply may be the repeated points being made with a number of people that lead to that perception.</P>


I think what also happens is that after repeatedly getting into debates on the same subject over and over, particularly ones as charged as those about Eli, is that gradually people actually begin to assume more radical positions*(or at least argue from them... they may not be completely committed to the more radical position).</P>


Kind of like this (but imagine 10 iterations between each change of position):</P>


Poster A: I think Eli is pretty good.
Poster B: I don't think Eli is pretty good.
A: I think Eli is very good.
B: I think Eli isn't good at all.
A: I think Eli is excellent.
B: I think Eli is deficient.
A: I think Eli is one of the greats.
B: Eli is a goober that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, who's only in the NFL because of his last name.
A: Eli is the best.
B: Homer.
A: Troll.
B: Your mom.
A: No, your mom.
Mod: Keep it civil, boys.
A: Ok, sorry.
B: Ok, sorry.</P>


To be repeated in a thread later that week.</P>


Haha, good one!</P>


Could you a version loaded with back-handed compliments and other passive-agressive tactics to simulate a harooni Eli thread?</P>
I never red a post by someone like drez. I mean this was just a big waste of sarcastic time!!

WOW-I hope you weren't getting paid during that post

HAMMERHEDD
01-07-2012, 02:04 PM
I have not converted. I think Eli is clutch. Actually, he is transcendentally clutch. He also makes too many poor reads, poor throws, and fails to see the whole field too often. He does enough good things to put him in the top 10. He is among the best QB's the Giants have ever had. If he was elite, he wouldn't need to be so clutch, however.

riiiiiiigggghhhhhhhttttttttt.

being clutch means he isn't elite. elite qb's arent' clutch bc if they are it means they are bad. your certainly entitled to your opinion, i feel it is in the minority and that you cannot substantiate it with proof or fact tho. i'd say i think the opposite of what u posted would be how i feel and actually substantiated.
OK, I can't help that you don't understand my point. Not everybody is up to the task. I'll try to help you, though.

Eli is amazing when the game is on the line with a few minutes left and the Giants are trailing. He becomes wayyyyyyyyyyyy less amazing when the Giants have a lead and are trying to put a game away. If he was truly elite, he wouldn't need so many comebacks. The Giants would win more games by holding or extending leads due to his elite level of play.

Being clutch is a great attribute. Being consistently elite would require fewer amazing, come from behind, late game heroics, however.

I'm sure you still don't understand.

Latinoshockeyfan
01-07-2012, 02:22 PM
Bottomline is, Eli is playing smart football. The difference from when we were bashing him and now, is that he has gotten comfortable with the receivers he has now and has decreased the bonehead decisions he made throwing to receivers with 2-3 defenders covering him. He has cut down throwing off his back football and is taking less sacks and not forcing anything. I've noticed he's been throwing away more balls whether it be in the sidelines or in areas where there's NOBODY in sight. SMART FOOTBALL.. I've enjoyed watching him this year. If it wasn't for so many dropped balls, I think his numbers would have surpassed Brees numbers by a long shot. Eli goes deep numerous times per game and time and time again we see drops. He played lights out this year and I'm proud of the transition from Bust to LEGEND in NY. He's a big time QB now. Im confident he will lead us to another superbowl championship. When that happens, everyone can stop talking about Peyton and start calling Eli the better Manning.

RobCarpenter
01-07-2012, 08:07 PM
Rose- And thats why he had his receivers with him all summer. Eli is a true leader he always falls on the sword, another sick trait. But you see that as admitting some fault, your so corny brotha. Stop defending your stance you took early in eli's career and get yourself a big ole spoon of crow buddy ?</P>


You go Mom!</P>


I've seen more flip-flopping, back-tracking, and memory lapses on this Board than in the political campaigns. </P>


The over-the-top Eli bashers of this past offseason (and beyond) just need to step forward andtake a "big ole spoon of crow."</P>

RobCarpenter
01-07-2012, 08:15 PM
To the OP:

You should know by now that the Eli haters are never going to be gone. They will just remain quiet and hidden.

When we lose again(hopefully next year sometime) they will surface.

If Eli does continue to dominate forever, they will just create new screen names and pretend they were pro-Eli the whole time.
</P>


It would be niceif they would just stay quiet or hidden. Instead, some are trying to re-write history or skew/justify their past positions instead of just"manning" up [Pun intended].</P>


The hysteria created this past offseason the "sky is falling" crowd was ridiculous and lacked any sense of perspective. </P>

RobCarpenter
01-07-2012, 08:19 PM
Funny- -Simms haters were the same way- By the time his career is over Eli will have every Giant QB record in the book- - good and bad- "You dont know what you got till its gone"</P>


Unfortunately, there is no doubt that you are correct.</P>

Voldamort
01-07-2012, 08:23 PM
No they finally woke up

Drez
01-07-2012, 08:36 PM
I think what happens when someone adamantly defends their position on a message board is that it can be misconstrued as an "extreme" stance when in reality that may not be the case. It's simply may be the repeated points being made with a number of people that lead to that perception.</P>


I think what also happens is that after repeatedly getting into debates on the same subject over and over, particularly ones as charged as those about Eli, is that gradually people actually begin to assume more radical positions(or at least argue from them... they may not be completely committed to the more radical position).</P>


Kind of like this (but imagine 10 iterations between each change of position):</P>


Poster A: I think Eli is pretty good.
Poster B: I don't think Eli is pretty good.
A: I think Eli is very good.
B: I think Eli isn't good at all.
A: I think Eli is excellent.
B: I think Eli is deficient.
A: I think Eli is one of the greats.
B: Eli is a goober that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, who's only in the NFL because of his last name.
A: Eli is the best.
B: Homer.
A: Troll.
B: Your mom.
A: No, your mom.
Mod: Keep it civil, boys.
A: Ok, sorry.
B: Ok, sorry.</P>


To be repeated in a thread later that week.</P>


Haha, good one!</P>


Could you a version loaded with back-handed compliments and other passive-agressive tactics to simulate a harooni Eli thread?</P>


I never red a post by someone like drez. I mean this was just a big waste of sarcastic time!! WOW-I hope you weren't getting paid during that post</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>What? Me sarcastic? Never!!</FONT></P>


But, I wasn't being sarcstic in that post. Tell me that isn't a pretty accurate summation of 90% of Eli threads ever posted on this board.</P>

Squib
01-07-2012, 08:44 PM
I have always supported Eli, even though after last year, i felt he needed a wake up call, as far as throwing the ball into danger, especially when avoiding sacks. Even though the Giants went 9-7 in the regular season, they have had a lot more going for them offensively. But still, I want more. And a win over the Falcons will be the best way to get that going!

Roosevelt
01-07-2012, 09:58 PM
I have not converted. I think Eli is clutch. Actually, he is transcendentally clutch. He also makes too many poor reads, poor throws, and fails to see the whole field too often. He does enough good things to put him in the top 10. He is among the best QB's the Giants have ever had. If he was elite, he wouldn't need to be so clutch, however.

riiiiiiigggghhhhhhhttttttttt.

being clutch means he isn't elite. elite qb's arent' clutch bc if they are it means they are bad. your certainly entitled to your opinion, i feel it is in the minority and that you cannot substantiate it with proof or fact tho. i'd say i think the opposite of what u posted would be how i feel and actually substantiated.
OK, I can't help that you don't understand my point. Not everybody is up to the task. I'll try to help you, though.

Eli is amazing when the game is on the line with a few minutes left and the Giants are trailing. He becomes wayyyyyyyyyyyy less amazing when the Giants have a lead and are trying to put a game away. If he was truly elite, he wouldn't need so many comebacks. The Giants would win more games by holding or extending leads due to his elite level of play.

Being clutch is a great attribute. Being consistently elite would require fewer amazing, come from behind, late game heroics, however.

I'm sure you still don't understand.

You have a point.

Against the Jets were up 20-7 with 8:53, Eli audibles out of a run on 1st down with 7 in the box and passes at Revis which of course was intercepted.

There's no reason for that from an arm-chair QB perspective. Bill Parcells would not have allowed that. Imagine what that scene would have looked like on the sideline.

But maybe Ernie saw that kind of thing and liked all this excitement.

Roosevelt
01-07-2012, 10:01 PM
To the OP:

You should know by now that the Eli haters are never going to be gone. They will just remain quiet and hidden.

When we lose again(hopefully next year sometime) they will surface.

If Eli does continue to dominate forever, they will just create new screen names and pretend they were pro-Eli the whole time.
</p>


It would be niceif they would just stay quiet or hidden. Instead, some are trying to re-write history or skew/justify their past positions instead of just"manning" up [Pun intended].</p>


The hysteria created this past offseason the "sky is falling" crowd was ridiculous and lacked any sense of perspective. </p>

Pipe down Clueless George. We have a playoff game tomorrow and you're talking stupid - again.

Roosevelt
01-07-2012, 10:09 PM
Funny- -Simms haters were the same way-

By the time his career is over Eli will have every Giant QB record in the book- - good and bad-

"You dont know what you got till its gone"

Simms and Eli "hate" are not comparable. Different circumstances that only those who have seen both player's careers would understand.

Sarcasman
01-08-2012, 04:35 PM
I have not converted. I think Eli is clutch. Actually, he is transcendentally clutch. He also makes too many poor reads, poor throws, and fails to see the whole field too often. He does enough good things to put him in the top 10. He is among the best QB's the Giants have ever had. If he was elite, he wouldn't need to be so clutch, however.

riiiiiiigggghhhhhhhttttttttt.

being clutch means he isn't elite. elite qb's arent' clutch bc if they are it means they are bad. your certainly entitled to your opinion, i feel it is in the minority and that you cannot substantiate it with proof or fact tho. i'd say i think the opposite of what u posted would be how i feel and actually substantiated.
OK, I can't help that you don't understand my point. Not everybody is up to the task. I'll try to help you, though.

Eli is amazing when the game is on the line with a few minutes left and the Giants are trailing. He becomes wayyyyyyyyyyyy less amazing when the Giants have a lead and are trying to put a game away. If he was truly elite, he wouldn't need so many comebacks. The Giants would win more games by holding or extending leads due to his elite level of play.

Being clutch is a great attribute. Being consistently elite would require fewer amazing, come from behind, late game heroics, however.

I'm sure you still don't understand.

You have a point.*

Against the Jets were up 20-7 with 8:53, Eli audibles out of a run on 1st down with 7 in the box and passes at Revis which of course was intercepted.

There's no reason for that from an arm-chair QB perspective.* Bill Parcells would not have allowed that.* Imagine what that scene would have looked like on the sideline.

But maybe Ernie saw that kind of thing and liked all this excitement.*


That's kind of you, Rosie.

I figured nobody engaged him on his point because it was idiotic, despite the old desperation stab at lucidity with: "if you don't get it that means you're not smart enough to understand it and therefore there's something wrong with you".

Because everyone knows that late game circumstances when a team is trailing are exactly the same as they are throughout the entire game.

Roosevelt
01-08-2012, 07:23 PM
I have not converted. I think Eli is clutch. Actually, he is transcendentally clutch. He also makes too many poor reads, poor throws, and fails to see the whole field too often. He does enough good things to put him in the top 10. He is among the best QB's the Giants have ever had. If he was elite, he wouldn't need to be so clutch, however.

riiiiiiigggghhhhhhhttttttttt.

being clutch means he isn't elite. elite qb's arent' clutch bc if they are it means they are bad. your certainly entitled to your opinion, i feel it is in the minority and that you cannot substantiate it with proof or fact tho. i'd say i think the opposite of what u posted would be how i feel and actually substantiated.
OK, I can't help that you don't understand my point. Not everybody is up to the task. I'll try to help you, though.

Eli is amazing when the game is on the line with a few minutes left and the Giants are trailing. He becomes wayyyyyyyyyyyy less amazing when the Giants have a lead and are trying to put a game away. If he was truly elite, he wouldn't need so many comebacks. The Giants would win more games by holding or extending leads due to his elite level of play.

Being clutch is a great attribute. Being consistently elite would require fewer amazing, come from behind, late game heroics, however.

I'm sure you still don't understand.

You have a point.

Against the Jets were up 20-7 with 8:53, Eli audibles out of a run on 1st down with 7 in the box and passes at Revis which of course was intercepted.

There's no reason for that from an arm-chair QB perspective. Bill Parcells would not have allowed that. Imagine what that scene would have looked like on the sideline.

But maybe Ernie saw that kind of thing and liked all this excitement.


That's kind of you, Rosie.

I figured nobody engaged him on his point because it was idiotic, despite the old desperation stab at lucidity with: "if you don't get it that means you're not smart enough to understand it and therefore there's something wrong with you".

Because everyone knows that late game circumstances when a team is trailing are exactly the same as they are throughout the entire game.

He's not perfect S. But he's damn close right now. [;)]

burier
01-08-2012, 07:30 PM
Is there a term for people arguing a point I already won?

stormblue
01-08-2012, 07:40 PM
elite quarterbacks don't have all these 4th quarter heroics and stats on a consistent basis because they are usually winning the game already.
eli's 4th qtr. heroics are a necessary evil following the 1st 3 qtrs of mediocrity.

this year he is getting better though.
he has improved to where i no longer hate on him , but he's not elite , he is top 10 in my book of active players.....but he ain't Brady, Brees, Peyton, or Rogers.
being one of the best ever NYG QB's does not make him elite.

JMFP2
01-08-2012, 07:44 PM
Top-5, Top-10, Elite......call it whatever you want, but Eli is clearly at the top of his game.</P>


He's done it with a defense and running game that have both been MIA for long stretches this season.</P>


Today was another notch in his belt...the offense started out slowly, and give alot of credit to the Falcons, who played some inspired defense.</P>


But once again, in crunch time, he took over the game.</P>


I think he's elite, for whatever that's worth....and the longer he continues at this level, the stronger that argument becomes.</P>


Today, the Eli put a stake through the "can't win a home playoff game" argument.</P>


Soon, the Eli Haters will be down to "he's never won a night game in the Super Dome", or some crap like that.</P>

stormblue
01-08-2012, 07:52 PM
Top-5, Top-10, Elite......call it whatever you want, but Eli is clearly at the top of his game.</P>


He's done it with a defense and running game that have both been MIA for long stretches this season.</P>


Today was another notch in his belt...the offense started out slowly, and give alot of credit to the Falcons, who played some inspired defense.</P>


But once again, in crunch time, he took over the game.</P>


I think he's elite, for whatever that's worth....and the longer he continues at this level, the stronger that argument becomes.</P>


Today, the Eli put a stake through the "can't win a home playoff game" argument.</P>


Soon, the Eli Haters will be down to "he's never won a night game in the Super Dome", or some crap like that.</P>

ok , i'll meet you halfway and admit that elite or not ; he's pretty darn good this year, and seems to improve every year.

Sarcasman
01-08-2012, 10:21 PM
elite quarterbacks don't have all these 4th quarter heroics and stats on a consistent basis because they are usually winning the game already.
eli's 4th qtr. heroics are a necessary evil following the 1st 3 qtrs of mediocrity.

this year he is getting better though.
he has improved to where i no longer hate on him , but he's not elite , he is top 10 in my book of active players.....but he ain't Brady, Brees, Peyton, or Rogers.
being one of the best ever NYG QB's does not make him elite.


Wow.

He's gonna be so happy to hear this.

rebelfan1966
01-08-2012, 11:37 PM
I will say it again.... someone show me the defintion of an Elite QB. Not somebody's opinion ofan Elite QB.... but an actual written defintion of an Elite QB endorsed by the NFL.</P>


If nobody can do this.... as far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as an Elite QB in the NFL. There are only various degrees of good QBs, ranked by their stats. </P>


I am so sick and tired of this word "Elite QB".... it does not make any sense, and I can't beleive the hype surrounding it. </P>

CantBlameShockeyNow
01-09-2012, 09:46 AM
Top-5, Top-10, Elite......call it whatever you want, but Eli is clearly at the top of his game.</P>


He's done it with a defense and running game that have both been MIA for long stretches this season.</P>


Today was another notch in his belt...the offense started out slowly, and give alot of credit to the Falcons, who played some inspired defense.</P>


But once again, in crunch time, he took over the game.</P>


I think he's elite, for whatever that's worth....and the longer he continues at this level, the stronger that argument becomes.</P>


Today, the Eli put a stake through the "can't win a home playoff game" argument.</P>


Soon, the Eli Haters will be down to "he's never won a night game in the Super Dome", or some crap like that.</P>

Comedy. The D carried this team until Eli finally woke up. If the D didn't carry this team by stopping two 4th and 1s...who knows what would have happened. Eli is the only one that put points on the board for ATL. The running game is what made the passing game work. The first TD was a duck thrown behind Nicks. The 2nd TD was a 10 yard pass that Nicks outran the entire D for 62 yards for a TD...that was ALL Nicks. The 3rd TD was a beautifully thrown pass by Eli...but as usual, the sheep say Eli won the game...The first 4 drives of the game Eli orchestrated 3 punts (two 3-&-outs, one 4-&-out) and a safety...if he does his usual sleepwalking for the 1st half against GB, we get smoked...but of course if that happens, it will be blamed on the D, the running game, the receiver's butter fingers, and of course, KG...he is just horrrrrrible.

Thanks to the D and running game for CARRYING the team against ATL.

bELIeve_in_Giants
01-09-2012, 09:57 AM
Top-5, Top-10, Elite......call it whatever you want, but Eli is clearly at the top of his game.</P>


He's done it with a defense and running game that have both been MIA for long stretches this season.</P>


Today was another notch in his belt...the offense started out slowly, and give alot of credit to the Falcons, who played some inspired defense.</P>


But once again, in crunch time, he took over the game.</P>


I think he's elite, for whatever that's worth....and the longer he continues at this level, the stronger that argument becomes.</P>


Today, the Eli put a stake through the "can't win a home playoff game" argument.</P>


Soon, the Eli Haters will be down to "he's never won a night game in the Super Dome", or some crap like that.</P>


Comedy. The D carried this team until Eli finally woke up. If the D didn't carry this team by stopping two 4th and 1s...who knows what would have happened. Eli is the only one that put points on the board for ATL. The running game is what made the passing game work. The first TD was a duck thrown behind Nicks. The 2nd TD was a 10 yard pass that Nicks outran the entire D for 62 yards for a TD...that was ALL Nicks. The 3rd TD was a beautifully thrown pass by Eli...but as usual, the sheep say Eli won the game...The first 4 drives of the game Eli orchestrated 3 punts (two 3-&amp;-outs, one 4-&amp;-out) and a safety...if he does his usual sleepwalking for the 1st half against GB, we get smoked...but of course if that happens, it will be blamed on the D, the running game, the receiver's butter fingers, and of course, KG...he is just horrrrrrible. Thanks to the D and running game for CARRYING the team against ATL.</P>


Calling Giants 101 - here's one for your weekly "Poor Eli" blog</P>

Morehead State
01-09-2012, 10:03 AM
Top-5, Top-10, Elite......call it whatever you want, but Eli is clearly at the top of his game.</P>


He's done it with a defense and running game that have both been MIA for long stretches this season.</P>


Today was another notch in his belt...the offense started out slowly, and give alot of credit to the Falcons, who played some inspired defense.</P>


But once again, in crunch time, he took over the game.</P>


I think he's elite, for whatever that's worth....and the longer he continues at this level, the stronger that argument becomes.</P>


Today, the Eli put a stake through the "can't win a home playoff game" argument.</P>


Soon, the Eli Haters will be down to "he's never won a night game in the Super Dome", or some crap like that.</P>


Comedy. The D carried this team until Eli finally woke up. If the D didn't carry this team by stopping two 4th and 1s...who knows what would have happened. Eli is the only one that put points on the board for ATL. The running game is what made the passing game work. The first TD was a duck thrown behind Nicks. The 2nd TD was a 10 yard pass that Nicks outran the entire D for 62 yards for a TD...that was ALL Nicks. The 3rd TD was a beautifully thrown pass by Eli...but as usual, the sheep say Eli won the game...The first 4 drives of the game Eli orchestrated 3 punts (two 3-&amp;-outs, one 4-&amp;-out) and a safety...if he does his usual sleepwalking for the 1st half against GB, we get smoked...but of course if that happens, it will be blamed on the D, the running game, the receiver's butter fingers, and of course, KG...he is just horrrrrrible. Thanks to the D and running game for CARRYING the team against ATL.</P>


You are absolutely nuts.</P>

burier
01-09-2012, 10:04 AM
Top-5, Top-10, Elite......call it whatever you want, but Eli is clearly at the top of his game.</P>


He's done it with a defense and running game that have both been MIA for long stretches this season.</P>


Today was another notch in his belt...the offense started out slowly, and give alot of credit to the Falcons, who played some inspired defense.</P>


But once again, in crunch time, he took over the game.</P>


I think he's elite, for whatever that's worth....and the longer he continues at this level, the stronger that argument becomes.</P>


Today, the Eli put a stake through the "can't win a home playoff game" argument.</P>


Soon, the Eli Haters will be down to "he's never won a night game in the Super Dome", or some crap like that.</P>


Comedy. The D carried this team until Eli finally woke up. If the D didn't carry this team by stopping two 4th and 1s...who knows what would have happened. Eli is the only one that put points on the board for ATL. The running game is what made the passing game work. The first TD was a duck thrown behind Nicks. The 2nd TD was a 10 yard pass that Nicks outran the entire D for 62 yards for a TD...that was ALL Nicks. The 3rd TD was a beautifully thrown pass by Eli...but as usual, the sheep say Eli won the game...The first 4 drives of the game Eli orchestrated 3 punts (two 3-&-outs, one 4-&-out) and a safety...if he does his usual sleepwalking for the 1st half against GB, we get smoked...but of course if that happens, it will be blamed on the D, the running game, the receiver's butter fingers, and of course, KG...he is just horrrrrrible. Thanks to the D and running game for CARRYING the team against ATL.</P>


Calling Giants 101 - here's one for your weekly "Poor Eli" blog</P>

forreal doe

stormblue
01-09-2012, 10:11 AM
elite quarterbacks don't have all these 4th quarter heroics and stats on a consistent basis because they are usually winning the game already.
eli's 4th qtr. heroics are a necessary evil following the 1st 3 qtrs of mediocrity.

this year he is getting better though.
he has improved to where i no longer hate on him , but he's not elite , he is top 10 in my book of active players.....but he ain't Brady, Brees, Peyton, or Rogers.
being one of the best ever NYG QB's does not make him elite.


Wow.

He's gonna be so happy to hear this.

i texted him about it (as usual) but he has yet to respond.
probably busy with the post game pressers.
but yes, i think he will be happy when he reads it.

gumby742
01-09-2012, 10:11 AM
Top-5, Top-10, Elite......call it whatever you want, but Eli is clearly at the top of his game.</P>


He's done it with a defense and running game that have both been MIA for long stretches this season.</P>


Today was another notch in his belt...the offense started out slowly, and give alot of credit to the Falcons, who played some inspired defense.</P>


But once again, in crunch time, he took over the game.</P>


I think he's elite, for whatever that's worth....and the longer he continues at this level, the stronger that argument becomes.</P>


Today, the Eli put a stake through the "can't win a home playoff game" argument.</P>


Soon, the Eli Haters will be down to "he's never won a night game in the Super Dome", or some crap like that.</P>


Comedy. The D carried this team until Eli finally woke up. If the D didn't carry this team by stopping two 4th and 1s...who knows what would have happened. Eli is the only one that put points on the board for ATL. The running game is what made the passing game work. The first TD was a duck thrown behind Nicks. The 2nd TD was a 10 yard pass that Nicks outran the entire D for 62 yards for a TD...that was ALL Nicks. The 3rd TD was a beautifully thrown pass by Eli...but as usual, the sheep say Eli won the game...The first 4 drives of the game Eli orchestrated 3 punts (two 3-&amp;-outs, one 4-&amp;-out) and a safety...if he does his usual sleepwalking for the 1st half against GB, we get smoked...but of course if that happens, it will be blamed on the D, the running game, the receiver's butter fingers, and of course, KG...he is just horrrrrrible. Thanks to the D and running game for CARRYING the team against ATL.</P>


Calling Giants 101 - here's one for your weekly "Poor Eli" blog</P>


forreal doe</P>


English?</P>

burier
01-09-2012, 10:14 AM
Top-5, Top-10, Elite......call it whatever you want, but Eli is clearly at the top of his game.</P>


He's done it with a defense and running game that have both been MIA for long stretches this season.</P>


Today was another notch in his belt...the offense started out slowly, and give alot of credit to the Falcons, who played some inspired defense.</P>


But once again, in crunch time, he took over the game.</P>


I think he's elite, for whatever that's worth....and the longer he continues at this level, the stronger that argument becomes.</P>


Today, the Eli put a stake through the "can't win a home playoff game" argument.</P>


Soon, the Eli Haters will be down to "he's never won a night game in the Super Dome", or some crap like that.</P>


Comedy. The D carried this team until Eli finally woke up. If the D didn't carry this team by stopping two 4th and 1s...who knows what would have happened. Eli is the only one that put points on the board for ATL. The running game is what made the passing game work. The first TD was a duck thrown behind Nicks. The 2nd TD was a 10 yard pass that Nicks outran the entire D for 62 yards for a TD...that was ALL Nicks. The 3rd TD was a beautifully thrown pass by Eli...but as usual, the sheep say Eli won the game...The first 4 drives of the game Eli orchestrated 3 punts (two 3-&-outs, one 4-&-out) and a safety...if he does his usual sleepwalking for the 1st half against GB, we get smoked...but of course if that happens, it will be blamed on the D, the running game, the receiver's butter fingers, and of course, KG...he is just horrrrrrible. Thanks to the D and running game for CARRYING the team against ATL.</P>


Calling Giants 101 - here's one for your weekly "Poor Eli" blog</P>


forreal doe</P>


English?</P>

no its slang we use to express agreement.

rebelfan1966
01-09-2012, 10:18 AM
The kid from Ole Miss that wears #10 is pretty good.... anyone who disputes that is insane.