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View Full Version : Does defense still win championships in the NFL?



OrangeGiant
01-09-2012, 10:00 PM
Sitting here watching the BCS Championship and these 2 defenses is pretty amazing. Especially with some of the crazy bowl games this year with all the high scoring games. In the end, the 2 best defenses are playing the for championship. Well at least without actually having a playoff to officially decide things, like the big boys do. And even some of the littler boys.</P>


Will that happen in the NFL this year, or is this the year we see a 45-41 Super Bowl score? When we beat NE in the SB, at that time a lot of people thought that was the best offense ever.Statisically you could make the arguement.The Giants showed that a dominant defenseand pash rush could stop that.. Now, I think both GB and NO are better offensively than that team, maybe quite a bit better. Hell, the Giants offense, when it's clicking, is comparable. There has never been a year like this in the NFL offensively,that's obvious.</P>


So in the end, will it be the best defensive teams in the final four? If you believe that, then the Giants should be heading to SF in a couple weeks. And Denver will be playing Baltimore/ Although Houston's defense may be as good as the Ravens. Or is this the year where offenses are just so good, that teams like GB and NO have too many weapons and options,.That they havetwo great QB's who will be able to score more points than anyone else. I'd like to think we have a QB who can do the same.</P>


The next couple weeks are going to be interesting. I'd like to believe that before this season is over, the teams with the best defenses are going to be there in the end. Defense wins championships, right? I guess we'll see.</P>

GameTime
01-09-2012, 10:01 PM
Sitting here watching the BCS Championship and these 2 defenses is pretty amazing. Especially with some of the crazy bowl games this year with all the high scoring games. In the end, the 2 best defenses are playing the for championship. Well at least without actually having a playoff to officially decide things, like the big boys do. And even some of the littler boys.</P>


Will that happen in the NFL this year, or is this the year we see a 45-41 Super Bowl score? When we beat NE in the SB, at that time a lot of people thought that was the best offense ever.Statisically you could make the arguement.The Giants showed that a dominant defenseand pash rush could stop that.. Now, I think both GB and NO are better offensively than that team, maybe quite a bit better. Hell, the Giants offense, when it's clicking, is comparable. There has never been a year like this in the NFL offensively,that's obvious.</P>


So in the end, will it be the best defensive teams in the final four? If you believe that, then the Giants should be heading to SF in a couple weeks. And Denver will be playing Baltimore/ Although Houston's defense may be as good as the Ravens. Or is this the year where offenses are just so good, that teams like GB and NO have too many weapons and options,.That they havetwo great QB's who will be able to score more points than anyone else. I'd like to think we have a QB who can do the same.</P>


The next couple weeks are going to be interesting. I'd like to believe that before this season is over, the teams with the best defenses are going to be there in the end. Defense wins championships, right? I guess we'll see.</P>


</P>


guess we will find out.....</P>

OrangeGiant
01-09-2012, 10:14 PM
Have to admit, it would be cool to see a Giants-49ers rematch in the NFC Championship. The last time that happened, Pat Summerall was saying-"There will be no 3-peat.

fourth&forever
01-09-2012, 10:17 PM
Have to admit, it would be cool to see a Giants-49ers rematch in the NFC Championship. The last time that happened, Pat Summerall was saying-"There will be no 3-peat.
oh yeah! What a game. Gonna put on the DVD right now.

OrangeGiant
01-09-2012, 10:21 PM
Have to admit, it would be cool to see a Giants-49ers rematch in the NFC Championship. The last time that happened, Pat Summerall was saying-"There will be no 3-peat. oh yeah! What a game. Gonna put on the DVD right now.</P>


Crazy as it might sound, that is my favorite Giants memory, even though it wasn't a SB win. Summerall getting that jab in and stopping that team from a 3-peat was awesome. </P>

PrideofNY
01-09-2012, 10:29 PM
I am thoroughly enjoying watching some actual defense in a football game. Why can't the NFL let people play like this. There isn't a flag on every hit near the sidelines, and the DB's are allowed to touch the receiver.



If anyone whines that this is a boring game because "there arent n e pointz!11", get out.

yatitle
01-09-2012, 10:51 PM
Have to admit, it would be cool to see a Giants-49ers rematch in the NFC Championship. The last time that happened, Pat Summerall was saying-"There will be no 3-peat. oh yeah! What a game. Gonna put on the DVD right now.</P>


Crazy as it might sound, that is my favorite Giants memory, even though it wasn't a SB win. Summerall getting that jab in and stopping that team from a 3-peat was awesome. </P>

Greatest Summerall line after Montana is knocked out by Marshall. The word on Montana from the sideline is "everything hurts"

Axels15
01-09-2012, 11:19 PM
This was a weird year, but, it's not like Green Bay had a horrible defense last year. They were pretty decent. And the Jets D did beat the Pats O last year...


This year has just been... very strange.

BigBlueOnes
01-09-2012, 11:35 PM
This is a tremendous question and nobody's answering it. I was going to ask the same exact thing. I would like to think defense still wins games. I just traded jabs with my college room mate who lives in Green Bay and is a cheesehead. He said we have no chance, we already got beat by them once, and Rodgers isn't Favre, we have no answers for his passing game. I would like to think three or four body slams to the ground shakes him enough to throw his game off. I enjoy nothing more than smash mouth defensive Giants football, you can keep your ariel attacks and so forth, I want to see that D shut down Rodgers.

barran21
01-10-2012, 12:34 AM
In today's NFL? nope, NFL has rigged to rules for offenses, for ratings and money....

Killa4luv
01-10-2012, 12:41 AM
Excellent question. We will see. They only teams left in the playoffs that have good defenses are:

Houston - 2nd in league
Baltimore - 3rd in league
49ers - 4th in the league

the remaining teams including our G-men are in the bottom 3rd

Saints - 24th
Giants -27th
Patriots - 31st
Packers - 32nd

Now we know our ranking is off by alot because we just got alot of guys healthy. So we belong somewhere much closer to the top teams, I mean our D just pitched a shut out, no one else has done that, but Baltimore or the 49ers have played yet.

The other question is, if GB wins the super bowl the way everyone has picked them to, will it be the first time that a team ranked last in defense won a super bowl? I'd guess yes.

However, I don't think Green Bay is winning a super bowl and I think we're going to have something to say about that. If we played them to the wire with a hurting defense, without Osi, and diminished Tuck, I think things will be quite a bit different this time. We are doing everything better, running, passing and defending. Osi is gonna play alot of downs cuz GB doesn't run much or well. We will have the answer to the OP's question soon enough.

jhamburg
01-10-2012, 12:42 AM
This is a tremendous question and nobody's answering it. I was going to ask the same exact thing. I would like to think defense still wins games. I just traded jabs with my college room mate who lives in Green Bay and is a cheesehead. He said we have no chance, we already got beat by them once, and Rodgers isn't Favre, we have no answers for his passing game. I would like to think three or four body slams to the ground shakes him enough to throw his game off. I enjoy nothing more than smash mouth defensive Giants football, you can keep your ariel attacks and so forth, I want to see that D shut down Rodgers.

Well here's a question- Is there any defense that reliably shuts down teams like GB, NO, NE, etc? No, there isn't, those teams are capable of putting 40-50 points on anyone if they are clicking. The new rules protect the middle of the field for receivers, there's too much room to work for a great QB with protection. You can't defend everyone.

I mean the days of the '85 bears and the '00 ravens giving up single digits in the SB? Will never happen now, unless a really bad team slips in.

greenca190
01-10-2012, 02:10 AM
Sitting here watching the BCS Championship and these 2 defenses is pretty amazing. Especially with some of the crazy bowl games this year with all the high scoring games. In the end, the 2 best defenses are playing the for championship. Well at least without actually having a playoff to officially decide things, like the big boys do. And even some of the littler boys.</p>


Will that happen in the NFL this year, or is this the year we see a 45-41 Super Bowl score? When we beat NE in the SB, at that time a lot of people thought that was the best offense ever.Statisically you could make the arguement.The Giants showed that a dominant defenseand pash rush could stop that.. Now, I think both GB and NO are better offensively than that team, maybe quite a bit better. Hell, the Giants offense, when it's clicking, is comparable. There has never been a year like this in the NFL offensively,that's obvious.</p>


So in the end, will it be the best defensive teams in the final four? If you believe that, then the Giants should be heading to SF in a couple weeks. And Denver will be playing Baltimore/ Although Houston's defense may be as good as the Ravens. Or is this the year where offenses are just so good, that teams like GB and NO have too many weapons and options,.That they havetwo great QB's who will be able to score more points than anyone else. I'd like to think we have a QB who can do the same.</p>


The next couple weeks are going to be interesting. I'd like to believe that before this season is over, the teams with the best defenses are going to be there in the end. Defense wins championships, right? I guess we'll see.</p>

I believe we will see an AWESOME combination of opposing philosophies. These playoffs will be very exciting this year, and I hope we have something to say about it.

Go Blue.

greenca190
01-10-2012, 02:13 AM
Excellent question. We will see. They only teams left in the playoffs that have good defenses are:

Houston - 2nd in league
Baltimore - 3rd in league
49ers - 4th in the league

the remaining teams including our G-men are in the bottom 3rd

Saints - 24th
Giants -27th
Patriots - 31st
Packers - 32nd

Now we know our ranking is off by alot because we just got alot of guys healthy. So we belong somewhere much closer to the top teams, I mean our D just pitched a shut out, no one else has done that, but Baltimore or the 49ers have played yet.

The other question is, if GB wins the super bowl the way everyone has picked them to, will it be the first time that a team ranked last in defense won a super bowl? I'd guess yes.

However, I don't think Green Bay is winning a super bowl and I think we're going to have something to say about that. If we played them to the wire with a hurting defense, without Osi, and diminished Tuck, I think things will be quite a bit different this time. We are doing everything better, running, passing and defending. Osi is gonna play alot of downs cuz GB doesn't run much or well. We will have the answer to the OP's question soon enough.




I think all four of those "bottom" defenses have competitive defenses.

We fail to remember that stats are numbers. Sure, GB and NE might give up a **** ton of yards on defense, but their offense scores every three minutes. Hard to not give up yards when you're on the field all that time.

Stats are misleading! Teams that are in the playoffs deserve to be there for being TEAMS, and not just quarterbacks.

adversus
01-10-2012, 02:36 AM
The "number 1 defense" in the league just got torched by Tim Tebow and the Denver Broncos.

The problem isn't that defense no longer matters, it's how we rank the defenses. It makes absolutely no sense to rank defenses by total yards anymore. When offenses are putting up as many yards and as many points as they do the only thing important on defense is keeping them out of the endzone, and getting turnovers. Points allowed and turnovers and passer rating differential are truly the only defensive stats that matter anymore. It's not the NFL it used to be.

greenca190
01-10-2012, 02:40 AM
The "number 1 defense" in the league just got torched by Tim Tebow and the Denver Broncos.

The problem isn't that defense no longer matters, it's how we rank the defenses. It makes absolutely no sense to rank defenses by total yards anymore. When offenses are putting up as many yards and as many points as they do the only thing important on defense is keeping them out of the endzone, and getting turnovers. Points allowed and turnovers and passer rating differential are truly the only defensive stats that matter anymore. It's not the NFL it used to be.

Agreed, but defense is still entirely capable of effecting the outcome of a game.

greenca190
01-10-2012, 02:42 AM
The "number 1 defense" in the league just got torched by Tim Tebow and the Denver Broncos.

The problem isn't that defense no longer matters, it's how we rank the defenses. It makes absolutely no sense to rank defenses by total yards anymore. When offenses are putting up as many yards and as many points as they do the only thing important on defense is keeping them out of the endzone, and getting turnovers. Points allowed and turnovers and passer rating differential are truly the only defensive stats that matter anymore. It's not the NFL it used to be.

But wow, yeah. I haven't heard any one explain it as well as you just did. You're right. Defense is still there, but the idea of how to play it and how to go about your business has changed.

Maybe that's why we don't see actual "tackles" anymore? Most people are going for the huge hit for an incompletion altogether, or a fumble after the catch.

Defensive backs take chances all the time to create turnovers, and often let up a huge touchdown (see the Broncos game last night).

Gunakor
01-10-2012, 05:56 AM
"This was a weird year, but, it's not like Green Bay had a horrible defense last year."

In 2010, the Pittsburgh Steelers won the AFC Championship and had the #1 defense in the NFL. The Packers won the NFC Championship with the #2 ranked defense in the NFL.

It's kinda funny. Green Bay loses Cullen Jenkins to free agency and Nick Collins to injury, sees their defense go from #2 to #31 in the league, and wins 5 more games than they did a year ago. I've always believed that defense wins championships, but it's very possible that this year's Super Bowl features the two worst defenses in the league. Times, they are a changin.

stormblue
01-10-2012, 07:05 AM
well, right now there are 4 good defensive teams
left in the playoffs. i guess we will find out.

OX1
01-10-2012, 07:25 AM
On the best offenses, a defense getting even 1 or 2 stops without points is the difference. A top D with average O will never win the superbowl again,unless 2 teams like that play each other (which will only be a fluke that they both even reached the superbowl at all).</P>


Sadly I think the giants concentration on a feared pass rush is going to have to take a back seat to continued development of a killer offense, coupled with an average defense. </P>


</P>

stormblue
01-10-2012, 07:32 AM
*On the best offenses, a defense getting even 1 or 2 stops without points is the difference. A top D with average O will never win the superbowl again,*unless 2 teams like that play each other (which will only be a fluke that they both even reached the superbowl at all).*</P>


* Sadly I think the giants concentration on a feared pass rush is going to have to take a back seat to continued development of a killer offense, coupled with an average defense. *</P>


*</P>

the 49ers have a killer D and their offense was just as good as ours this year.

jomo
01-10-2012, 07:54 AM
Great question and I am not sure that we will get a complete answer this year. (or maybe we will) There are two amazing, all time great offenses in this year's playoffs and a few defenses that are justexcellent not legendary. A sweeping question like yours can't be resolved in a single season but it is clear that the Pack, the Saints and even the Pats to an extent are trying to test the old adage. It will be interesting to watch.

stormblue
01-10-2012, 08:24 AM
actually, as far as the super bowl is concerned
defense never has won championships.

the average PPG of the super bowl is 45.
averaging a score of 30 to 15.
that hardly qualifies as defensive matches.

@ jomo.....i know you don't take much stock in
stats......but scoreboard is the one stat that does matter.

Mercury
01-10-2012, 08:32 AM
Though some offenses come close, there is no offense that scores every time it has the ball. And so, even when two prolific offensive teams play each other, it is the team that gets the most stops on defense that will win the game. Pure and simple, defense still matters, even in a high scoring league.

Redeyejedi
01-10-2012, 08:41 AM
I am thoroughly enjoying watching some actual defense in a football game. Why can't the NFL let people play like this. There isn't a flag on every hit near the sidelines, and the DB's are allowed to touch the receiver.



If anyone whines that this is a boring game because "there arent n e pointz!11", get out.
Alabama and LSU are the only ones who played defense all year and thats because they have such a huge recruiting advantage.Alabamas defense is bigger then most NFL Defenses and im in no way exaggerating. College Football is out of control with scoring outside the SEC.

This is Alabamas defense.There a hybrid team.There very similar to the Patriots a lot of the same tendencies except Bamas defense might be better.Bama goes in and out of 3-4 to 4-3 looks Upshaw goes down to weakside defensive end and Williams goes to 3 tech.They have an insane amount of depth and when they can substitute they switch out the 3-4 personal and go with 4-3 guys that are smaller and penetrate.

WDE Damion Square 6-3 285

NT- Josh Chapman 6-1 320

SDE- Jessie Williams 6-4 319

Jack - Courtny Upshaw 6-2 265

Mike-Donta Hightower- 6-4 260

IWill-Nico Johnson- 6-3 245

SAM- Jerrel Harris 6-3 242

CB- Dre Kirkpatrick 6-3 192

CB-Daquan Menzie 6-0 198

FS-Mark Barron- 6-2 218

SS-Robert Lester 6-2 210

nygsb42champs
01-10-2012, 08:45 AM
The rules favor the offense for sure. But I still believe that you need to play some defense to win it all.

buddy33
01-10-2012, 08:46 AM
I'd take any one of those guys from the Alabama defense, but I really like Hightower. No chance the Giants get him though.

OX1
01-10-2012, 09:56 AM
On the best offenses, a defense getting even 1 or 2 stops without points is the difference. A top D with average O will never win the superbowl again,unless 2 teams like that play each other (which will only be a fluke that they both even reached the superbowl at all).</p>


Sadly I think the giants concentration on a feared pass rush is going to have to take a back seat to continued development of a killer offense, coupled with an average defense. </p>


</p>

the 49ers have a killer D and their offense was just as good as ours this year.

Just as good as ours if you IGNORE schedule.

dallas put up 27
philly 23
us 20

After looking closer at their cake sched, the only impressive thing they
did all year is beat Det and hold them to 19 points.

Hardly what I would call a killer in defense

Sure they choked down
Pit, 21th in points scored (and Ben hurt)
Ari 24th in points scored
STL 32th in points scored
Cleve 30th in points scored
tamps 27th in points scored

Really tough to stop teams that don't score points anyway........

TrueBlue@NYC
01-10-2012, 10:33 AM
The "number 1 defense" in the league just got torched by Tim Tebow and the Denver Broncos. The problem isn't that defense no longer matters, it's how we rank the defenses. It makes absolutely no sense to rank defenses by total yards anymore. When offenses are putting up as many yards and as many points as they do the only thing important on defense is keeping them out of the endzone, and getting turnovers. Points allowed and turnovers and passer rating differential are truly the only defensive stats that matter anymore. It's not the NFL it used to be.</P>


Best post of the thread. Defense in the current NFL is all about limiting points and getting turnovers. Gettings stops and three and outs is good, but more of icing on the cake. </P>


Youcan't win it all without your defense giving some contribution. It may not necessarily have to be a world beating defense (as long as you have an explosive offense), but it's got to be able to help your team. </P>


GB may have the 32 ranked defense in yards,but they also force alot of turnovers. That's their game. They'll give up some points, but they know that teams, in order to keep up, will take risks. They capitalize on those risks, force turnvoers giving their offense the short field to lock up the game. </P>


Saints defense is predicated the same way. That's why Williams blitzes so much and mixes his coverages so much. They're designed to get that one or two turnovers needed to put the game away. See the second half of their game last week against the lions. The game was still undecided until Stafford started thowing INTs. Their championship defense in 2009 led the league in takeaways. </P>


NE is really the only truly inept defense left in the playoffs. </P>

lttaylor56
01-10-2012, 10:43 AM
The "number 1 defense" in the league just got torched by Tim Tebow and the Denver Broncos. The problem isn't that defense no longer matters, it's how we rank the defenses. It makes absolutely no sense to rank defenses by total yards anymore. When offenses are putting up as many yards and as many points as they do the only thing important on defense is keeping them out of the endzone, and getting turnovers. Points allowed and turnovers and passer rating differential are truly the only defensive stats that matter anymore. It's not the NFL it used to be.</P>


Best post of the thread. Defense in the current NFL is all about limiting points and getting turnovers. Gettings stops and three and outs is good, but more of icing on the cake. </P>


You*can't win it all without your defense giving some contribution. It may not necessarily have to be a world beating defense (as long as you have an explosive offense), but it's got to be able to help your team. </P>


GB may have the 32 ranked defense in yards,but they also force alot of turnovers. That's their game. They'll give up some points, but they know that teams, in order to keep up, will take risks. They capitalize on those risks, force turnvoers giving their offense the short field to lock up the game. </P>


Saints defense is predicated the same way. That's why Williams blitzes so much and mixes his coverages so much. They're designed to get that one or two turnovers needed to put the game away. See the second half of their game last week against the lions. The game was still undecided until Stafford started thowing INTs. Their championship defense in 2009 led the league in takeaways. </P>


NE is really the only truly inept defense left in the playoffs. </P>I'd have to agree. NE is built, this year anyway on Tom Brady and the offense. I can't wait to see the Denver game this weekend.

If you have an average defense with a superior offense you can win SB's.

Recipe for a SB team would also be aka the 1986-90 NYG team with an average offense and a lights out defense. In Superbowl 25, Phil Simms said, all we really need are two long time consuming drives and we will be good.

G-Man67
01-10-2012, 10:48 AM
they had like 5 guys out ... you saw how well our D played with Tuck, Osi, Thomas, Phillips, Boley, Goff, Prince all hurt at the same time



plus the only championship to be decided this year in football was def. decided by Defence



while all the rules are designed to increase the scoring and scores and yards are certainly at the highest levels in NFL history ... as you are seeing with the Giants ... Defence is still incredibly important

CDN_G-FAN
01-10-2012, 10:50 AM
the NFL continues to push rules to the offense's favour because frankly defenses are improving faster than offenses can.</P>


Think about the pass contact rules and how low the scoring would be if you could still jam receivers like you could back in the day?</P>


20 years ago, a 275 lbs lineman was average. Now, the only way you can play on the d-line at 275 lbs is if you're near as fast as a track star. And you're a TE or nothing at 275 lbs on the other side of the ball.</P>


the game is changing and while i miss the hits of even 10 years ago, i don't want to watch back-ups play for the superbowl.</P>


even with all the new hitting rules injuries are still one of the big detriments to the entertainment value of this game.</P>


offense will rule the roost for a couple years, but it won't take long for defenses to catch up again.</P>


just watch.</P>

TrueBlue@NYC
01-10-2012, 10:56 AM
The "number 1 defense" in the league just got torched by Tim Tebow and the Denver Broncos. The problem isn't that defense no longer matters, it's how we rank the defenses. It makes absolutely no sense to rank defenses by total yards anymore. When offenses are putting up as many yards and as many points as they do the only thing important on defense is keeping them out of the endzone, and getting turnovers. Points allowed and turnovers and passer rating differential are truly the only defensive stats that matter anymore. It's not the NFL it used to be.</P>


Best post of the thread. Defense in the current NFL is all about limiting points and getting turnovers. Gettings stops and three and outs is good, but more of icing on the cake. </P>


Youcan't win it all without your defense giving some contribution. It may not necessarily have to be a world beating defense (as long as you have an explosive offense), but it's got to be able to help your team. </P>


GB may have the 32 ranked defense in yards,but they also force alot of turnovers. That's their game. They'll give up some points, but they know that teams, in order to keep up, will take risks. They capitalize on those risks, force turnvoers giving their offense the short field to lock up the game. </P>


Saints defense is predicated the same way. That's why Williams blitzes so much and mixes his coverages so much. They're designed to get that one or two turnovers needed to put the game away. See the second half of their game last week against the lions. The game was still undecided until Stafford started thowing INTs. Their championship defense in 2009 led the league in takeaways. </P>


NE is really the only truly inept defense left in the playoffs. </P>


I'd have to agree. NE is built, this year anyway on Tom Brady and the offense. I can't wait to see the Denver game this weekend. If you have an average defense with a superior offense you can win SB's. Recipe for a SB team would also be aka the 1986-90 NYG team with an average offense and a lights out defense. In Superbowl 25, Phil Simms said, all we really need are two long time consuming drives and we will be good.</P>


Yep, if you look at all the superbowl winners over the past 10 years, there was not one part of their team that you could say was a definite weakness. It may not have been a strength, but it wasn't a liability during their playoff run. Many teams make their run primarily b/c they managed to somehow turn their weakness into a competitive part of their team. </P>


Even the 2008 cardinals with the 32nd rushing offense that season. A big part of their playoff run was them being able to get timely runs for big gains. </P>


The 1999 Rams, for all the bluster about their offense, their defense made alot of big plays for them durignthe playoffs. </P>


The only team i've ever seen win, with little or no help from one side of the ball were the 2000 Ravens passing game. </P>

chasjay
01-10-2012, 11:15 AM
I don't think we're likely to see many start-to-finish defensive shutdown performances like in the past, but having the better defensive performance should still tilt the balance in a game. For instance - if you're able to hold your opponent to one 3rd down conversion out of three attempts, and your offense is converting 50% on the other team, then your defense is giving you a better chance to win. But I agree that unless/until there are changes in rules or strategies, defenses won't be dominating like they once did.

OrangeGiant
01-10-2012, 12:04 PM
actually, as far as the super bowl is concerned defense never has won championships. the average PPG of the super bowl is 45. averaging a score of 30 to 15. that hardly qualifies as defensive matches. @ jomo.....i know you don't take much stock in stats......but scoreboard is the one stat that does matter.</P>


I hear what you are saying, but traditionally teams that win the SB are usually in the upper echelon of defenses in the NFL. Teams typically get there with defense. The Steel Curtain, the 85 Bears and 86 Giants, the 90 Ravens (we all remember them). The 49er teams that won Super Bowls had great weapons on offense, but they also were very good defensivley. Even GB last year had a really good defense.</P>


I've grown up believing that a great defense will always stop a great offense. However, with all the rules now favoring offenses in the NFL, it makes it harder than ever for defenses to stop the type of offenses we are seeing this year. Usually defense coordinators figure out a way to stop a great offense, or a gimmicky type offense like the Dolphins had with the Wildcat and the read option Denver runs now. It works for awhilem but eventually defenses watch enough film and figure it out. I don't know that any DC can figure out how to stop the Saints or the Packers offense this year. They are much more than gimmicky offenses. </P>


I'd like to believe the Giants have the best chance to stop these offenses considering their pass rush right now is where it was in 2007, or better. I have to admit, I'd rather be heading to SF next week if we win than to NO!</P>

OrangeGiant
01-10-2012, 12:07 PM
This is a tremendous question and nobody's answering it. I was going to ask the same exact thing. I would like to think defense still wins games. I just traded jabs with my college room mate who lives in Green Bay and is a cheesehead. He said we have no chance, we already got beat by them once, and Rodgers isn't Favre, we have no answers for his passing game. I would like to think three or four body slams to the ground shakes him enough to throw his game off. I enjoy nothing more than smash mouth defensive Giants football, you can keep your ariel attacks and so forth, I want to see that D shut down Rodgers.</P>


Thank you, by the way. I was surprised by the lack of responses this got initially as I thought it was a pretty thought provoking question. I think you got the banter going!</P>

NYCDBS
01-10-2012, 03:42 PM
This is a tremendous question and nobody's answering it. I was going to ask the same exact thing. I would like to think defense still wins games. I just traded jabs with my college room mate who lives in Green Bay and is a cheesehead. He said we have no chance, we already got beat by them once, and Rodgers isn't Favre, we have no answers for his passing game. I would like to think three or four body slams to the ground shakes him enough to throw his game off. I enjoy nothing more than smash mouth defensive Giants football, you can keep your ariel attacks and so forth, I want to see that D shut down Rodgers.

Ask any NFL player how hard it is to beat a team twice the same year and they'll go on for volumes... And your buddy is absolutely right Rodgers isn't Favre... Favre did it for 20 years and was consistently regarded as the best at his position. Not that I'm doubting Rodgers' talent but he's been in the league what 3 years as a starter and his team is LOADED!!!! Look at what Matt Flynn did LOL. As far as defense winning championships goes if you look at the 4 teams that had the bye this year Half of them have great defenses the other half explosive offenses so its not like the league is being pushed around on defense...

Big Blue 418
01-10-2012, 04:14 PM
Rodgers is better than Favre at their repective points in their careers . I don't even think that is a debate , One is a super bowl mvp . The other can thank Desmond Howard for his ring

BlueSanta
01-10-2012, 04:23 PM
I am a defense guy, I like watching defensive games. All this new favoritism to offense disgusts me.

But, having said that the answer to the quest is no, it doesnt win championships anymore in the NFL simply because of all the rule changes favoring offense.

Look at the stats for this year:

Only 2 teams left in the playoffs have top 15 defenses.

The 20th, 24th, 27th, 31st and 32nd ranked defenses all remain in the playoffs.

The 2 top seeds were ranked 31st and 32nd in defense.

burier
01-10-2012, 04:34 PM
If you're asking if the 2000 Ravens could win a SB in 2012 I'd say no.

You have to be able to score the ball in todays game. Ball control offense is a thing of the past.

But you do need some kind of defense. To reach the SB you're gonna be in a situation where your gonna have to stop someone in order to win.

so I dont think Defense wins championships anymore. But its still very necessary

Ntegrase96
01-10-2012, 04:44 PM
This is a QB driven league now... or so it seems to be at least. I think when you look back at the superbowl winners since 2000 you can't deny how big a role defense still plays in bringing home the Lombardi.


Yes some very good quarterbacks have won superbowls since the turn of
the century, but a lot of those same quarterbacks didn't make it far
without their defenses.



-Brady didn't become the godlike figure espn portrays him
to be until 2007, <u>after</u> all the championships he won. He had a decent
defense that year, but it wasn't nearly what he had in the years past.
Before 2007 the most yards he ever passed for was 4,100 and had yet to
break the 30 td mark.



-Brees has put up great numbers for his entire career in
New Orleans. Didn't win the big one before Greg Williams showed up with
his opportunistic defense.



-P Manning played quite poorly in the postseason the Colts
won the superbowl, but his defense stepped up for the post season to
power through. He actually played a worse game in his superbowl victory
than in his superbowl loss (108 rating to 81)



Rodgers had a much better year in 2009 than he did in 2010. The
offense was better as a whole as well. The difference in the two years
was Green Bay's defense got better. Not by a lot, but by enough. They
gave up 57 less points in '10 than '09, and their defense never gave up
more than 31 points in a game (gave up 51 to Arizona in 09 to knock
them out of the playoffs).



-Roethlisberger... does anyone think he sniffs a superbowl
without that defense? He played awful in the first win and made some
nice plays when the defense needed him in the second.



-Eli Manning is playing and has been playing the best
football of his career since the start of 2008. They haven't won a
playoff game since. Why? The departure of Steve Spagnuolo, superbowl
winning defensive coordinator and Michael Strahan. They haven't found
their defense since.



-Kurt Warner's Rams won it in the 1999-2000 season because
of an amazing offense and very solid defense. The next year the offense
scores more points but the defense is dead last. Eliminated by the
Saints in the first round of the playoffs.



And then the two guys who aren't top tier QBs that won superbowls behind the leagues best defenses, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.

Note: I wrote this up for a different forum a while back, so obviously some facts aren't completely accurate as they stand today, but the overall point still stands.

OrangeGiant
01-10-2012, 04:45 PM
If you're asking if the 2000 Ravens could win a SB in 2012 I'd say no. You have to be able to score the ball in todays game. Ball control offense is a thing of the past. But you do need some kind of defense. To reach the SB you're gonna be in a situation where your gonna have to stop someone in order to win. so I dont think Defense wins championships anymore. But its still very necessary</P>


yeah, I misspoke earlier in the thread when I said the 90 Ravens when I was listing the great past defenses. I meant 2000 obviously. But you could throw the 90 Giants defense in there on that list as well. You bring up an interesting question though, could the 2000 Ravens win the SB this year? Or the 85 Bears, or 86 Giants? I know to compare teams from different era's is hard to do and the game has changed a lot in 20 years, but those were some damn good defenses with hall of famers all over the place.</P>


Nobody thought the 2007 Patriots offense could be stopped, certainly not held to only 14 pts, but they were. This weekend's games are going to be interesting to watch, that's for sure.</P>

burier
01-10-2012, 04:50 PM
If you're asking if the 2000 Ravens could win a SB in 2012 I'd say no. You have to be able to score the ball in todays game. Ball control offense is a thing of the past. But you do need some kind of defense. To reach the SB you're gonna be in a situation where your gonna have to stop someone in order to win. so I dont think Defense wins championships anymore. But its still very necessary</P>


yeah, I misspoke earlier in the thread when I said the 90 Ravens when I was listing the great past defenses. I meant 2000 obviously. But you could throw the 90 Giants defense in there on that list as well. You bring up an interesting question though, could the 2000 Ravens win the SB this year? Or the 85 Bears, or 86 Giants? I know to compare teams from different era's is hard to do and the game has changed a lot in 20 years, but those were some damn good defenses with hall of famers all over the place.</P>


Nobody thought the 2007 Patriots offense could be stopped, certainly not held to only 14 pts, but they were. This weekend's games are going to be interesting to watch, that's for sure.</P>

I think the 86 Giants and 85 Bears could move the ball well enough to have a shot.

The 2000 Ravens at times were quite bad offensively...remember Trent wasn't even the starter at the begingin of the season.

Another point to make is the rule changes.

Part of what made the Raves Giants Bears defenses so good was a very real intimidation factor which would be hard to uphold in todays suto flag football league.

Those teams might get penalized enough to cost them any game on roughness calls alone today.

Ntegrase96
01-10-2012, 04:53 PM
I am a defense guy, I like watching defensive games. All this new favoritism to offense disgusts me.

But, having said that the answer to the quest is no, it doesnt win championships anymore in the NFL simply because of all the rule changes favoring offense.

Look at the stats for this year:

Only 2 teams left in the playoffs have top 15 defenses.

The 20th, 24th, 27th, 31st and 32nd ranked defenses all remain in the playoffs.

The 2 top seeds were ranked 31st and 32nd in defense.




A bit misleading. It's really subjective what constitutes a good defense. Personally, I think it's the teams that don't let you score a lot of points. Who cares about giving up yards if the other team isn't putting up TDs on you.

Of the 8 teams left, 5 are in the top 15 for points scored against. Green Bay is the only team that is outside the top 15 that wasn't a wild card, but they were also tied for first in offense.

OrangeGiant
01-10-2012, 04:54 PM
If you're asking if the 2000 Ravens could win a SB in 2012 I'd say no. You have to be able to score the ball in todays game. Ball control offense is a thing of the past. But you do need some kind of defense. To reach the SB you're gonna be in a situation where your gonna have to stop someone in order to win. so I dont think Defense wins championships anymore. But its still very necessary</P>


yeah, I misspoke earlier in the thread when I said the 90 Ravens when I was listing the great past defenses. I meant 2000 obviously. But you could throw the 90 Giants defense in there on that list as well. You bring up an interesting question though, could the 2000 Ravens win the SB this year? Or the 85 Bears, or 86 Giants? I know to compare teams from different era's is hard to do and the game has changed a lot in 20 years, but those were some damn good defenses with hall of famers all over the place.</P>


Nobody thought the 2007 Patriots offense could be stopped, certainly not held to only 14 pts, but they were. This weekend's games are going to be interesting to watch, that's for sure.</P>


I think the 86 Giants and 85 Bears could move the ball well enough to have a shot. The 2000 Ravens at times were quite bad offensively...remember Trent wasn't even the starter at the begingin of the season. Another point to make is the rule changes. Part of what made the Raves Giants Bears defenses so good was a very real intimidation factor which would be hard to uphold in todays suto flag football league. Those teams might get penalized enough to cost them any game on roughness calls alone today.</P>


Yeah, there certainly were some bad asses on those defenses, that is for sure.</P>

NYGRealityCheck
01-10-2012, 04:57 PM
A solid defense (especially zone defense) is more about the teamwork between every defensive player on the field than just raw talent of a star defensive player.

The offense on the other hand can be productive with just individual talent.

OrangeGiant
01-15-2012, 08:30 PM
Well, so far I think the answer is yes. As I said in my origianl post, if you still believe in defense that we would see a Giants-49ers NFC champ. game.</P>


Giants have never lost an NFC title game. Two really good defenses left. Now things are really getting interesting.</P>


Discount Double Check!!</P>

jomo
01-15-2012, 08:32 PM
Aparently it still does!!

OrangeGiant
01-15-2012, 08:36 PM
YEAH BABY!</P>

BlueSanta
01-15-2012, 08:37 PM
The refs are definitely letting defenses play moreso in the playoffs than they did in the regular season.