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View Full Version : Giants do not need a linebacker...



Danny1024
01-10-2012, 06:48 PM
Hey guys, I see too many posts about drafting a linebacker in the 1st round. It's not happening because we don't need one...

Our linebacker core (WHEN HEALTHY*) is extremely underrated... Jonathan Goff was a great two down run defending linebacker who tore his ACL but he'll be back next season. Michael Boley is very good and his replacement (Jacquian Williams) has already been drafted. And then we have Kiwi who's made the full transition to OLB.

The Giants have 4 very solid linebackers...

Now here are my thoughts on the draft... our immediate needs are offensive line and maybe cornerback (depending on who we sign/resign in free agency). Yes you could argue that RB and TE could be needs but we don't ever draft RB's or TE's in the 1st or 2nd round.

This draft is TOP HEAVY in offensive linemen (particularly tackles)... I think that's what we take with our 1st pick.

Also for everyone saying we're gonna draft another DE, keep in mind that this draft is very weak in the DE department and there is only 1, maybe 2 legit DE 1st rounders. As for cornerback I could see us taking one through BPA if a guy like Dre Kirkpatrick falls to us but again, I doubt that's gonna happen.

Itlan
01-10-2012, 06:57 PM
If Osi is gone, Kiwi could very well go back to the DE rotation fulltime, meaning we'd need a SLB.

gmen0820
01-10-2012, 07:01 PM
Yeah I agree with this as well. Have all year. I'd love a Kuechly, maybe even a Hightower, but I think we have bigger needs.

Danny1024
01-10-2012, 07:20 PM
If Osi is gone, Kiwi could very well go back to the DE rotation fulltime, meaning we'd need a SLB.

Even if that's true, Reese will not use our 1st or 2nd round pick on a 2 down strong side linebacker that won't even contribute in passing situations. I could see us drafting one in the later rounds though (3-6).


Yeah I agree with this as well. Have all year.
I'd love a Kuechly, maybe even a Hightower, but I think we have bigger
needs.

Yes I agree with you. I'd like to maybe add another linebacker but we have bigger needs to address in the early rounds.

bLuereverie
01-10-2012, 08:08 PM
Just like your statements on the DE/CB situation, our potential need at LB is conjecture dependent on who we sign or resign and where they are physically in being able to play.

Kiwi is signed for one more year, behind him is Sintim and Tracy. I think Goff is better suited over there, but we'll wait and see on both his FA situation and his health.

As of now, the middle is filled with depth to develop, but not one I'd like to call a starter. One can very well turn into a very consistent player, but again, why gamble and bank on it.

I would love an emphasis on the offensive line as well.

Spizi
01-10-2012, 08:24 PM
Hey guys, I see too many posts about drafting a linebacker in the 1st round. It's not happening because we don't need one...

Our linebacker core (WHEN HEALTHY*) is extremely underrated... Jonathan Goff was a great two down run defending linebacker who tore his ACL but he'll be back next season. Michael Boley is very good and his replacement (Jacquian Williams) has already been drafted. And then we have Kiwi who's made the full transition to OLB.

The Giants have 4 very solid linebackers...

Now here are my thoughts on the draft... our immediate needs are offensive line and maybe cornerback (depending on who we sign/resign in free agency). Yes you could argue that RB and TE could be needs but we don't ever draft RB's or TE's in the 1st or 2nd round.

This draft is TOP HEAVY in offensive linemen (particularly tackles)... I think that's what we take with our 1st pick.

Also for everyone saying we're gonna draft another DE, keep in mind that this draft is very weak in the DE department and there is only 1, maybe 2 legit DE 1st rounders. As for cornerback I could see us taking one through BPA if a guy like Dre Kirkpatrick falls to us but again, I doubt that's gonna happen.



this is the lb situation right now Chase Blackburn, a defensive end, and a LB in a safeties body.

you're right we don't need a linebacker we need linebackers.

Itlan
01-10-2012, 09:36 PM
Hey guys, I see too many posts about drafting a linebacker in the 1st round. It's not happening because we don't need one...

Our linebacker core (WHEN HEALTHY*) is extremely underrated... Jonathan Goff was a great two down run defending linebacker who tore his ACL but he'll be back next season. Michael Boley is very good and his replacement (Jacquian Williams) has already been drafted. And then we have Kiwi who's made the full transition to OLB.

The Giants have 4 very solid linebackers...

Now here are my thoughts on the draft... our immediate needs are offensive line and maybe cornerback (depending on who we sign/resign in free agency). Yes you could argue that RB and TE could be needs but we don't ever draft RB's or TE's in the 1st or 2nd round.

This draft is TOP HEAVY in offensive linemen (particularly tackles)... I think that's what we take with our 1st pick.

Also for everyone saying we're gonna draft another DE, keep in mind that this draft is very weak in the DE department and there is only 1, maybe 2 legit DE 1st rounders. As for cornerback I could see us taking one through BPA if a guy like Dre Kirkpatrick falls to us but again, I doubt that's gonna happen.



this is the lb situation right now Chase Blackburn, a defensive end, and a LB in a safeties body.

you're right we don't need a linebacker we need linebackers.Boley has a safeties body?

Danny1024
01-10-2012, 11:21 PM
Hey guys, I see too many posts about drafting a linebacker in the 1st round. It's not happening because we don't need one...

Our linebacker core (WHEN HEALTHY*) is extremely underrated... Jonathan Goff was a great two down run defending linebacker who tore his ACL but he'll be back next season. Michael Boley is very good and his replacement (Jacquian Williams) has already been drafted. And then we have Kiwi who's made the full transition to OLB.

The Giants have 4 very solid linebackers...

Now here are my thoughts on the draft... our immediate needs are offensive line and maybe cornerback (depending on who we sign/resign in free agency). Yes you could argue that RB and TE could be needs but we don't ever draft RB's or TE's in the 1st or 2nd round.

This draft is TOP HEAVY in offensive linemen (particularly tackles)... I think that's what we take with our 1st pick.

Also for everyone saying we're gonna draft another DE, keep in mind that this draft is very weak in the DE department and there is only 1, maybe 2 legit DE 1st rounders. As for cornerback I could see us taking one through BPA if a guy like Dre Kirkpatrick falls to us but again, I doubt that's gonna happen.



this is the lb situation right now Chase Blackburn, a defensive end, and a LB in a safeties body.

you're right we don't need a linebacker we need linebackers.

Those 3 linebackers have been playing their asses off lately. That's a really lame comment you made.

titwio
01-11-2012, 12:04 AM
To add they also have guys like Greg Jones and Mark Herzlich....Being those guys didn't have off season training and were pretty much thrown into the fire their rookie year, I'd like to think they'll only be better acclimated next year....(Not sure if people have already written them off...I haven't)

For the draft I wouldn't mind the Giants picking up another CB in the 1st to be honest. The secondary is thin and guys are coming back off injuries. ....Alfonzo Denard, Janoris Jenkins, Chase Minnifield to name a few who might be around when the Giants pick...

poppa smurph
01-11-2012, 12:25 AM
^
I'm thinking secondary or O-line in the first would be nice.
Especially if they happen to be bpa.

Spizi
01-11-2012, 12:33 AM
Those 3 linebackers have been playing their asses off lately. That's a really lame comment you made.


Notice the key word "lately". Blackburn and Kiwi are clearly not the long term solution and that is what I'm referring to when i say we need linebackers. I love Boley btw but you have to admit he is a little undersized and is also getting up there in age (30 next year). We definitely have some great young depth but we need an impact linebacker to man the middle.

B-Red22
01-11-2012, 12:48 AM
Those 3 linebackers have been playing their asses off lately. That's a really lame comment you made.
Notice the key word "lately". Blackburn and Kiwi are clearly not the long term solution and that is what I'm referring to when i say we need linebackers. I love Boley btw but you have to admit he is a little undersized and is also getting up there in age (30 next year). We definitely have some great young depth but we need an impact linebacker to man the middle.</P>


Kiwi has looked like the real deal this season so idk what your talking about, to me he has finally made the full transition to LB</P>

titwio
01-11-2012, 12:54 AM
I'm thinking secondary or O-line in the first would be nice..

Yeah I wouldn't mind either or but am leaning towards CB. Who knows though....The Giants might even take another DE.

mainegiantsfan
01-11-2012, 01:17 AM
I don't know why Blackburn is so dissed. He has played as good as Goff at this point, and has played great. He's capable of starting again if Goff gets hurt, and we won't drop off if at all.

Spizi
01-11-2012, 01:53 AM
Those 3 linebackers have been playing their asses off lately. That's a really lame comment you made.
Notice the key word "lately". Blackburn and Kiwi are clearly not the long term solution and that is what I'm referring to when i say we need linebackers. I love Boley btw but you have to admit he is a little undersized and is also getting up there in age (30 next year). We definitely have some great young depth but we need an impact linebacker to man the middle.</P>


Kiwi has looked like the real deal this season so idk what your talking about, to me he has finally made the full transition to LB</P>

Once again long term. Kiwi only has a 1 year deal and will be 29 next season. Also isn't a great pass defender. We need a 3 down lb.

Bohemian
01-11-2012, 01:55 AM
In my humble opinion. I believe that the team only needs that one true middle backer. I am actually very happy with what I see on the outside. I see Boley as an amazing overall talent who plays smart football, and helps the whole defense on passing down with his great play recognition and play-calling. I like Williams and Kiwanuka as complementing eachother with speed and experience, while Sintim, Paysinger and Jones still have me guessing.... although I have been impressed with Jones' special team's play as of late. Jones may be the story down the line, as he reminds me of when I first watched Armstead play, as he was not much of a full-time player but was wrecking the opposition on special teams. Time will tell, but so far, I have been impressed with Williams as a coming talent; Kiwanuka and Boley for their stability and consistency, and feel that that is enough reason for us to be optimistic about the outside backer positions.. now, if we could just find that monster in the middle, and perhaps that killer pass rusher.... that would be amazing.

Danny1024
01-11-2012, 04:12 AM
Those 3 linebackers have been playing their asses off lately. That's a really lame comment you made.
Notice the key word "lately". Blackburn and Kiwi are clearly not the long term solution and that is what I'm referring to when i say we need linebackers. I love Boley btw but you have to admit he is a little undersized and is also getting up there in age (30 next year). We definitely have some great young depth but we need an impact linebacker to man the middle.</p>


Kiwi has looked like the real deal this season so idk what your talking about, to me he has finally made the full transition to LB</p>

Once again long term. Kiwi only has a 1 year deal and will be 29 next season. Also isn't a great pass defender. We need a 3 down lb.

And Kiwi can't be resigned after his deal is up next year? And we have already drafted Boley's replacement with Jacquian Williams. And Jonathan Goff is only 26 years old. You're just making up excuses to draft a linebacker early when we don't need to.

It's not happening though even if you want to continue to debate it.

Raptor22
01-11-2012, 08:28 AM
BPA BPA BPA

The number one need of any football team is talent.

If you can add the absolute best talent available, you do it. Regardless of position or perceived need. In 2010 we were LOADED at DE, and JPP was a absolute luxury pick... then Kiwi goes down, Osi becomes questionable with knee/hip problems, and JPP becomes a godsend, in addition to the only good thing about Giants ST's. Then, for a while THIS year JPP and Tolly were the depth at DE.

Likewise, we didn't really need another corner with TT24, Ross, Webby, Johnson, Coe, and Witherspoon. But the drafted Prince anyway... and then this year CB's have gone down as fast as they could be added to the roster.

You never know what you're going to need next year other than more talent. THAT'S where JR's genius lies: Identifying talent, and sticking with to his guns and ignoring pressure to reach for "Need" or spend gold (draft picks) to jump around to hunt for guys people think he needs to draft. Rather he lets the draft come to him, and picks the talent that other teams ignored in favor of "need".

BlueDog10
01-11-2012, 11:06 AM
This is honestly one of the better posts I've read in a long time.

Thinking long term, I'd say every position on the team is a need - except QB. I'd love it if Kuechly is this year's Prince (won't happen), but it's totally out of character for Reese to reach for a position in the first. Would be nice to walk away from the draft with a stud OLB, a pass rushing DE, a run blocking O-Lineman, a ball-hawking safety and a shutdown corner though. Actually maybe a couple of each.

deekay7685
01-11-2012, 12:46 PM
so if we draft an OL which position do we need to upgrade and who is worthy of a ~ 25th pick?
the only guy i like there is PKonz but they're paying Baas a lot of money.i can't think of a OT (right) prospect there deserving of being drafted there and would be an effective starter in his rookie season.
BPA may be a LB or a CB or DL if they choose not to resign TT, trade OSI or cut Canty,

myles2424
01-11-2012, 01:37 PM
LB is & has been the weakest part of our team for years.......we have playmakers at every position other than LB......end of story..

Danny1024
01-11-2012, 05:34 PM
LB is &amp; has been the weakest part of our team for years.......we have playmakers at every position other than LB......end of story..

No I definitely feel like OL has been our weakest unit this year. Think about it, 32nd in rushing and a piss poor pass blocking unit as well. Eli makes them like a lot better than they actually are (and they look pretty bad to begin with...).

And people keep saying the LB unit is weak... this is some kind of fallacy that I keep hearing. Michael Boley is an above average linebacker. Kiwanuka has been playing out of his mind these past few weeks and I think its because he finally got use to the OLB role. Jacquian Williams had a very good rookie season. Jonathan Goff doesn't put up flashy stats but he's an extremely underrated player and he'll be back next year. Read this article and you'll find out why http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/04/06/secret-superstar-jonathan-goff-new-york-giants/

Spizi
01-11-2012, 05:49 PM
Those 3 linebackers have been playing their asses off lately. That's a really lame comment you made.
Notice the key word "lately". Blackburn and Kiwi are clearly not the long term solution and that is what I'm referring to when i say we need linebackers. I love Boley btw but you have to admit he is a little undersized and is also getting up there in age (30 next year). We definitely have some great young depth but we need an impact linebacker to man the middle.</p>


Kiwi has looked like the real deal this season so idk what your talking about, to me he has finally made the full transition to LB</p>

Once again long term. Kiwi only has a 1 year deal and will be 29 next season. Also isn't a great pass defender. We need a 3 down lb.

And Kiwi can't be resigned after his deal is up next year? And we have already drafted Boley's replacement with Jacquian Williams. And Jonathan Goff is only 26 years old. You're just making up excuses to draft a linebacker early when we don't need to.

It's not happening though even if you want to continue to debate it.


You never know, kiwi might not be resigned and once again he's getting up there in age and is somewhat of a liability in coverage. All I'm saying is that we need a legit MLB that can man the middle for the next 10 years.

BlueDog10
01-11-2012, 06:22 PM
so if we draft an OL which position do we need to upgrade and who is worthy of a ~ 25th pick?
the only guy i like there is PKonz but they're paying Baas a lot of money.i can't think of a OT (right) prospect there deserving of being drafted there and would be an effective starter in his rookie season.
BPA may be a LB or a CB or DL if they choose not to resign TT, trade OSI or cut Canty,


What about Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia? I've heard him mocked to us in a few places. Drafting a guard is never a splash pick, but when you grab one this early you're hopefully getting one of the best.

critters
01-11-2012, 07:12 PM
So, we don't need a linebacker because our linebackers have been playing good recently... But we need an offensive lineman? Who have also been playing good lately.

I personally hope we take Dont'a Hightower in the first. I think he'll have a long career and I like his versatility if we run into injury problems again. He can play MLB or DE and dominate at both. He's a monster against the run and is one of the smartest LBs in the draft (he almost chose Vanderbilt over Alabama simply for the academics). He's the guy I want getting our defense in the right place.

We definitely do need some OL help though. It's hard to complain any time you take OL early. I just think there will be some solid options beyond the 1st round.

Brandon Boykin and Dequan Menzie are great CB options for later in the draft.

critters
01-11-2012, 07:13 PM
so if we draft an OL which position do we need to upgrade and who is worthy of a ~ 25th pick?
the only guy i like there is PKonz but they're paying Baas a lot of money.i can't think of a OT (right) prospect there deserving of being drafted there and would be an effective starter in his rookie season.
BPA may be a LB or a CB or DL if they choose not to resign TT, trade OSI or cut Canty,


What about Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia? I've heard him mocked to us in a few places. Drafting a guard is never a splash pick, but when you grab one this early you're hopefully getting one of the best.

I would love this pick. Not in the first round of course, but think he's a good get.

Spizi
01-11-2012, 10:30 PM
So, we don't need a linebacker because our linebackers have been playing good recently... But we need an offensive lineman? Who have also been playing good lately.

I personally hope we take Dont'a Hightower in the first. I think he'll have a long career and I like his versatility if we run into injury problems again. He can play MLB or DE and dominate at both. He's a monster against the run and is one of the smartest LBs in the draft (he almost chose Vanderbilt over Alabama simply for the academics). He's the guy I want getting our defense in the right place.

We definitely do need some OL help though. It's hard to complain any time you take OL early.* I just think there will be some solid options beyond the 1st round.

Brandon Boykin and Dequan Menzie are great CB options for later in the draft.


Hightower would be a solid pick because of the versatility but I also question his speed and athleticism. that's not everything though.

BlueSanta
01-13-2012, 06:52 AM
I actually agree. Although, Goff is a FA and if you take him out of the mix, we do suffer a bit.

I think People on these boards are seriously underestimating just how good a rookie year Jaquan Williams has had.

Compare him to all the highly drafted LBs of the draft and he holds his own.

For example: Akeem Ayers has played well and has played many more downs than Jaquain. Yet, they have almost identical stats. If anything JW's are very slightly better.

The Bills have been raving about Kelvin Sheppards rookie performance, yet his stats arent as good as JW's either.


In fact, Von Miller aside, JW has played as well as any rookie LB in the NFL this year.

This, from a guy who most draft experts didnt even have a rating for, and some has never heard of....

We should all get down on our knees daily and thank God, or Allah, or the Tooth Fairey or whoever you believe in, for Reese's ability to draft.

Spizi
01-13-2012, 12:55 PM
I actually agree. Although, Goff is a FA and if you take him out of the mix, we do suffer a bit.

I think People on these boards are seriously underestimating just how good a rookie year Jaquan Williams has had.

Compare him to all the highly drafted LBs of the draft and he holds his own.

*For example: Akeem Ayers has played well and has played many more downs than Jaquain. Yet, they have almost identical stats. If anything JW's are very slightly better.

*The Bills have been raving about Kelvin Sheppards rookie performance, yet his stats arent as good as JW's either.


In fact, Von Miller aside, JW has played as well as any rookie LB in the NFL this year.

This, from a guy who most draft experts didnt even have a rating for, and some has never heard of....

We should all get down on our knees daily and thank God, or Allah, or the Tooth Fairey or whoever you believe in, for Reese's ability to draft.


There's no doubt that Kiwi, Boley, and JWill have been playing very well this year but there's also no doubt that the Giants need a legit MLB. If we had Patrick Willis do you realize how much better out defense would be?? None of our guys are even half of Patrick Willis. Idk where this legit MLB will come from but it's not my job so idc just get it done Reese!

BlueSanta
01-13-2012, 08:38 PM
I actually agree. Although, Goff is a FA and if you take him out of the mix, we do suffer a bit.

I think People on these boards are seriously underestimating just how good a rookie year Jaquan Williams has had.

Compare him to all the highly drafted LBs of the draft and he holds his own.

For example: Akeem Ayers has played well and has played many more downs than Jaquain. Yet, they have almost identical stats. If anything JW's are very slightly better.

The Bills have been raving about Kelvin Sheppards rookie performance, yet his stats arent as good as JW's either.


In fact, Von Miller aside, JW has played as well as any rookie LB in the NFL this year.

This, from a guy who most draft experts didnt even have a rating for, and some has never heard of....

We should all get down on our knees daily and thank God, or Allah, or the Tooth Fairey or whoever you believe in, for Reese's ability to draft.


There's no doubt that Kiwi, Boley, and JWill have been playing very well this year but there's also no doubt that the Giants need a legit MLB. If we had Patrick Willis do you realize how much better out defense would be?? None of our guys are even half of Patrick Willis. Idk where this legit MLB will come from but it's not my job so idc just get it done Reese!

there are 31 teams in the NFL who can say the same thing: "if we had Pat Willis we would be better off!"

PW's dont come along every year.

Spizi
01-13-2012, 09:16 PM
.

lawl
01-13-2012, 09:25 PM
I don't really think it matters if we upgrade our linebacking corps or not. As long as our front four generates pressure and our secondary stays healthy, our defense will be successful.

Spizi
01-13-2012, 09:28 PM
I don't really think it matters if we upgrade our linebacking corps or not. As long as our front four generates pressure and our secondary stays healthy, our defense will be successful.

That is true but it would be nice to add an impact linebacker in the middle.

poppa smurph
01-13-2012, 09:49 PM
I actually agree. Although, Goff is a FA and if you take him out of the mix, we do suffer a bit.

I think People on these boards are seriously underestimating just how good a rookie year Jaquan Williams has had.

Compare him to all the highly drafted LBs of the draft and he holds his own.

For example: Akeem Ayers has played well and has played many more downs than Jaquain. Yet, they have almost identical stats. If anything JW's are very slightly better.

The Bills have been raving about Kelvin Sheppards rookie performance, yet his stats arent as good as JW's either.


In fact, Von Miller aside, JW has played as well as any rookie LB in the NFL this year.

This, from a guy who most draft experts didnt even have a rating for, and some has never heard of....

We should all get down on our knees daily and thank God, or Allah, or the Tooth Fairey or whoever you believe in, for<FONT size=6> Reese's ability to draft</FONT>.
uuuummmmm-hhhhmmmmm</P>


dang-straight we should.</P>


</P>