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View Full Version : Big week for ELI to move up on QB list



miked1958
01-11-2012, 11:34 AM
He has a chance to go up to GB and beat AR where he has not lost in 1.5 years. </P>


Even though AR only has 1SB ring like Eli, he is viewed as a better qb. He has put up big numbers in winning SB last season and leading GB to 15-1 this season but Eli did almost same thing in 08 after winning SB. Went 11-1 until plax screwed it up</P>

miked1958
01-11-2012, 11:58 AM
Eli had a great game vs AR except for the one pick six to matthews.

If he can go up there and out perform rodgers it could get things in motion tomove himinto the top 3.

also compared to Brees they both have 1SB ring but brees has broken major records and has out preformed Eli in head to head games. That why i hope we can play them againin NFCCG and Eli out play Drew

Then you have Brady. 3SB rings. although Eli has down well head to head in last game of 07 and in the SB. also went up there and ended Bradys 2year streak this season

miked1958
01-11-2012, 12:03 PM
Beating and outperfoming those 3 in our next 3 games will give him 2SB Rings and pretty much end all the naysayers questions about him.
He will also end the discussion about him and peyton...

GameTime
01-11-2012, 12:04 PM
Eli had a great game vs AR except for the one pick six to matthews. If he can go up there and out perform rodgers it could get things in motion tomove himinto the top 3. also compared to Brees they both have 1SB ring but brees has broken major records and has out preformed Eli in head to head games. That why i hope we can play them againin NFCCG and Eli out play Drew Then you have Brady. 3SB rings. although Eli has down well head to head in last game of 07 and in the SB. also went up there and ended Bradys 2year streak this season</P>


why does that even matter.....</P>


not busting you I just dont get it. What so you can say Eli is better then Rodgers??</P>


I have news for you even if the Giants win Rodgers is still one of the best QBs in the league hands down and will still be considered a better QB by most. </P>


</P>


</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 12:07 PM
Finally Rivers and Ben are out of the conversation. As are Flacco, Ryan and Shaub.

Eli already owns Brady. Brady's 3 SB rings are ancient history (And should be accompanied by an asterisk at all times).

In contemporary football Eli has 1 ring to Brady's 0 and Brady is in the Twilight of his career.

Rogers and Brees have a ring each so those two are Eli's contemporaries.

Eli may upstage both of them in these playoffs (Will definately upstage Rogers) . Setting the Stage for the Pundits to next year start the comparisions of whos better.

At which time some posters here who shall remain nameless will say that Eli has suddenly and drastically improved the number of revolutions the ball takes on his throws thus making him a supreme quarterback.

But in the end everyone will be late because I said it first.

Eli is the best in the business.

egyptian420
01-11-2012, 12:08 PM
Eli had a great game vs AR except for the one pick six to matthews. If he can go up there and out perform rodgers it could get things in motion tomove himinto the top 3. also compared to Brees they both have 1SB ring but brees has broken major records and has out preformed Eli in head to head games. That why i hope we can play them againin NFCCG and Eli out play Drew Then you have Brady. 3SB rings. although Eli has down well head to head in last game of 07 and in the SB. also went up there and ended Bradys 2year streak this season</p>


why does that even matter.....</p>


not busting you I just dont get it. What so you can say Eli is better then Rodgers??</p>


I have news for you even if the Giants win Rodgers is still one of the best QBs in the league hands down and will still be considered a better QB by most. </p>


</p>


</p>
+1.....although if he got another ring that would shut up a lot of people. I, as well as many Giants fans, know that Eli can get another ring, we knew it even before this year which has turned out to be his best.

I think another ring would shut up all the haters and jealous people that said he got lucky in 07 and how the defense won that championship and all that other garbage. Not only would it shut them up, but all the cowboy clowns could shut their mouth and stop talking about how Romo&gt;Eli.

miked1958
01-11-2012, 12:09 PM
also on packers boards they are saying Eli has no chance to go up to GB and Beat AR. saying AR has not been beaten there in 1.5 years. and Eli is not in his class...lol

they said the giants were only 1-3 vs payoff teams...losing to GB, NO and SF and only beating Falcons. lol

DId they forget he went up to foxbourgh and Beat NE and stopped a recored where they had not lost back to back games in forever. and also stopped Bradys 2yr home winning streak???

we are 2-3 vs playoff teams and if a few calls went our way in GB game we are 3-2
Also came within a Hair of beating SF at their place.

SO..this topic is being debated today on ESPN First take. Saying if he wins it soders his legacy and starts getting him mentioned in same sentence as those 3

thoughts

gumby742
01-11-2012, 12:19 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years.

burier
01-11-2012, 12:22 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years.

lol what do you call years and years??

gumby742
01-11-2012, 12:29 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


</P>


At least three.</P>

Moss#83
01-11-2012, 12:41 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


*</P>


At least three.</P>Brady and Brees. That's 2.

Brees gets exposed on the road and I have a feeling the 9ers can pull it out.

burier
01-11-2012, 12:43 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


*</P>


At least three.</P>

So 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

Looks like Eli passes the years test ey?

gumby742
01-11-2012, 12:58 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


</P>


At least three.</P>


So 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 Looks like Eli passes the years test ey?</P>


You're nuts if you think that he had elite numbers in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. Before this year, people were still labeling him as inconsistent and inaccurate.</P>

Firenugget
01-11-2012, 01:00 PM
I don't give a damn about any real or perceived list. Just win.

burier
01-11-2012, 01:04 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


*</P>


At least three.</P>


So 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 Looks like Eli passes the years test ey?</P>


You're nuts if you think that he had elite numbers in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.* Before this year, people were still labeling him as inconsistent and inaccurate.</P>

Try not to be a complete sheep for a moment and stop bringing up what people say as if it's evidence.

Your fatal flaw is you admit that Eli is elite this year but you can't provide numbers or proof from the previous stated years 07 to current that show that Eli was any less elite in those years.

So make up your mind. Either Eli has been Elite since bringing the SB home or He never has and still isn't Elite.

Gotta pick one.

gumby742
01-11-2012, 01:08 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


</P>


At least three.</P>


So 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 Looks like Eli passes the years test ey?</P>


You're nuts if you think that he had elite numbers in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. Before this year, people were still labeling him as inconsistent and inaccurate.</P>


Try not to be a complete sheep for a moment and stop bringing up what people say as if it's evidence. Your fatal flaw is you admit that Eli is elite this year but you can't provide numbers or proof from the previous stated years 07 to current that show that Eli was any less elite in those years. So make up your mind. Either Eli has been Elite since bringing the SB home or He never has and still isn't Elite. Gotta pick one.</P>


Huh? You want numbers? You really want to talk numbers? Look at QB rating. And i know you're going to say stats don't tell the entire story etc etc. Well, you just told me to look at numbers. And I have no idea why in that head of yours you think it's either he's elite since 2007 or not. Eli is playing out of his mind this year. He's far different this year compared to years past. That's as clear as night and day.So why on earth do i need to pick one? Not sure what this year has anything to do with previous years?</P>

giantsfan420
01-11-2012, 01:10 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years.

Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method.

Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year.

U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15 or so 1 yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made.

Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is

Edit - sorry 15 or so 1yd td runs 17 to be exact

lawl
01-11-2012, 01:18 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years.

Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method.

Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year.

U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made.

Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is

Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year.

gumby742
01-11-2012, 01:21 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is</P>


First you denounce stats, then you tell me numbers never lie. Hmm.....</P>


Most Giant fans and outsiders alike would agree that Eli has been far different this year compared to years past.</P>


If Colt McCoy wasn't asked to throw 60 times a game, if Ben hadn't gotten into a motorcycle accident, had Ben had an offensive line, had Bradford not been on a bad team, had Jemarcus Russell not been drafted into a dysfunctional organisation, if Rivers hadn't gotten hurt, if Ryan Leaf wasn't under so much scrutiny ....give me a break. You think Eli is the only victim of circumstance?</P>


So what you're saying is only a handful of people really know how to gauge his play. The overwhelming majority just don't know any better. Yeah. Ok.</P>

lawl
01-11-2012, 01:22 PM
This game has absolutely no bearing on who the better QB is.

gumby742
01-11-2012, 01:31 PM
Look. I'm just as excited as every other Giants fan that Eli has been playing lights out. But dudes ..... seriously. You know when you go on other team's boards and think about a select handful of nutjobs, "Wow this guys is nuts and totally has blinders on for thinking [insert opinion here ..say example Romo is a top 3 QB]". That's what the Eli fan club provides.. I'm not going to name names, but you guys know who you are.</P>


You guys definitely keep the boards flowing, but c'mon now. lol. You guys are like sharks in a feeding frenzy.</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 01:58 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


*</P>


At least three.</P>


So 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 Looks like Eli passes the years test ey?</P>


You're nuts if you think that he had elite numbers in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.* Before this year, people were still labeling him as inconsistent and inaccurate.</P>


Try not to be a complete sheep for a moment and stop bringing up what people say as if it's evidence. Your fatal flaw is you admit that Eli is elite this year but you can't provide numbers or proof from the previous stated years 07 to current that show that Eli was any less elite in those years. So make up your mind. Either Eli has been Elite since bringing the SB home or He never has and still isn't Elite. Gotta pick one.</P>


Huh?* You want numbers?* You really want to talk numbers?* Look at QB rating.** And i know you're going to say stats don't tell the entire story etc etc.* Well, you just told me to look at numbers.* And I have no idea why in that head of yours you think it's either he's elite since 2007 or not.*** Eli is playing out of his mind this year.* He's far different this year compared to years past.* That's as clear as night and day.So why on earth do i need to pick one?* Not sure what this year has anything to do with previous years?</P>

Guy his numbers are all basically the same thats why.

You say he's Elite this year but he's thrown 16 interceptions which is his career average.

If 9 balls don't get tipped and intercepted last year he would have thrown 16 interceptions last year.

His TD passes are actually down from last year.

Why the hell are you bringing up passer rating????

Since you love the Passer Rating stat so much how bout this"

His Passer rating in 09 WAS BETTER THAN IT IS THIS YEAR!

In the other years after 07 he's never gone below an 85.3 passer rating which is not even 8 point off of this years total.

Eli posted a higher completion Percentage in both 09 and 2010 than he posted this year when he suddenly became ELITE

Actually the only stat that is markedly better this year than in past years is Passing Yards.

Which is what happens when you boast a 32nd Ranked Rushing attack and poor defense.

So you see my very confused friend in this case Stats do tell the whole story.

Edit: I'll keep going.

in 2008 Eli threw ONLY 10 PICKS! Is that not elite?? I'd say it beats 16 picks wouldn't you?...

in 07, 08 and 2010 Eli boasted a stronger win percentage than he did when he magically became Elite....

giantsfan420
01-11-2012, 02:01 PM
Whatever u say buddy. I think its clear who has bliners on. Im not saying eli is the best or even top 3. But from the 2007passing playoff run until the end of reg season eli was phenomenal. Aaron rodgers is playing like eli did during his run, with more tds and better accuracy.

Im in no way saying elis run was better than rodgers but team success and high level qb play make them comparable. Let's see if we beat them, they wont have there best wr shot in the leg either.

2009 eli started out thru like 6 or 7 games unreal. Had a small injury to his throwing foot, coulda missed four weeks or so as other players with plantar fasciatus this year alone. He thre 14 ints but killed it threw the air. We won 8 games that year in large part to eli. But the run game and d sucked.

2010 again eli played well and led us to wins. He forced more passes, maybe the ds play from the year before messed with him. But still forced throws and had a ton of dropped and tipped up passes for ints. Even with that, we were 8 min away from clinching the playoffs vs philly...we all know that defensive, for two years in a row mind u, collapses that cost us the season. Even with that, the next week in g , coulda clinched, d gives up 40 something and don't pin that on anyone else but the d, we were tied 14 to 14 late in the 2ncd and we tried to play catch up bc the d couldn't get a stop.

Eli did still play well that year, although he threw for more ints than he did tne two years prior combined, still had great yardage, td, pass comp. Numbers.

Then this year eli said, **** it run game and defende be damned, helped lead us to the playoffs where the run game and d were hiding I guess. Very similar to 09 tho, just couldn't get those two more wins when the d would just have to make one stop. "Oh he wasn't clutch" yeah he was the d jjst wouldn't stop anyone and let them score right back like vs sd that year...

Face it eli has been an awesome qb for sometime now, the point he's playing his best ball, he's been right around this mark for some time. Just other factors like plex incident and bad defenses...well some people just don't even remember how well he played. Like did u just forget those years of play be eli???? Like I could careless what dallas fans and philly fans think of eli, or aikman or buck, I care but what I see play after play...that's why most of us here get how amazing elis been for the giants. Anyone wno can't acknowledge eli is one of the best in the game has blinders on. U REALIZE I'VE BEEN SAYING HOW GREAT ELIS BEEN FOR YEARS NOW just bc he made it abundantly clear for even dallas fans to have to admit doesn't mean that me and a few others who called this year homers simply bc we were right.

Twas u who was wrong and u can spin it any way u want. I full out said eli was this good, like givng my honest thoughts his stat line would be and it was like 30tds, 4400 yards and 15u ints. Go look it up its in dragons thread. So bc I was right about how elis play makes ME the blind homer. Truth is, ur just late to the crowd. I knew eli was this good.

burier
01-11-2012, 02:25 PM
Whatever u say buddy. I think its clear who has bliners on. Im not saying eli is the best or even top 3. But from the 2007passing playoff run until the end of reg season eli was phenomenal. Aaron rodgers is playing like eli did during his run, with more tds and better accuracy.

Im in no way saying elis run was better than rodgers but team success and high level qb play make them comparable. Let's see if we beat them, they wont have there best wr shot in the leg either.

2009 eli started out thru like 6 or 7 games unreal. Had a small injury to his throwing foot, coulda missed four weeks or so as other players with plantar fasciatus this year alone. He thre 14 ints but killed it threw the air. We won 8 games that year in large part to eli. But the run game and d sucked.

2010 again eli played well and led us to wins. He forced more passes, maybe the ds play from the year before messed with him. But still forced throws and had a ton of dropped and tipped up passes for ints. Even with that, we were 8 min away from clinching the playoffs vs philly...we all know that defensive, for two years in a row mind u, collapses that cost us the season. Even with that, the next week in g , coulda clinched, d gives up 40 something and don't pin that on anyone else but the d, we were tied 14 to 14 late in the 2ncd and we tried to play catch up bc the d couldn't get a stop.

Eli did still play well that year, although he threw for more ints than he did tne two years prior combined, still had great yardage, td, pass comp. Numbers.

Then this year eli said, **** it run game and defende be damned, helped lead us to the playoffs where the run game and d were hiding I guess. Very similar to 09 tho, just couldn't get those two more wins when the d would just have to make one stop. "Oh he wasn't clutch" yeah he was the d jjst wouldn't stop anyone and let them score right back like vs sd that year...

Face it eli has been an awesome qb for sometime now, the point he's playing his best ball, he's been right around this mark for some time. Just other factors like plex incident and bad defenses...well some people just don't even remember how well he played. Like did u just forget those years of play be eli???? Like I could careless what dallas fans and philly fans think of eli, or aikman or buck, I care but what I see play after play...that's why most of us here get how amazing elis been for the giants. Anyone wno can't acknowledge eli is one of the best in the game has blinders on. U REALIZE I'VE BEEN SAYING HOW GREAT ELIS BEEN FOR YEARS NOW just bc he made it abundantly clear for even dallas fans to have to admit doesn't mean that me and a few others who called this year homers simply bc we were right.

Twas u who was wrong and u can spin it any way u want. I full out said eli was this good, like givng my honest thoughts his stat line would be and it was like 30tds, 4400 yards and 15u ints. Go look it up its in dragons thread. So bc I was right about how elis play makes ME the blind homer. Truth is, ur just late to the crowd. I knew eli was this good.

nicely put.

I wish the Eli hate crew would have just continued hating instead of trying to couch this nonsense about Eli suddenly playing so much better. Its so disengenuous and annoying.

I also hate the fact that these people are basically saying "ESPN/NFL Net controls my brain."

If Meril Hodge says Eli sucks he must suck. If Deion Sanders says Eli is Elite he must be elite.

Its pathetic.

gumby742
01-11-2012, 02:26 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


</P>


At least three.</P>


So 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 Looks like Eli passes the years test ey?</P>


You're nuts if you think that he had elite numbers in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. Before this year, people were still labeling him as inconsistent and inaccurate.</P>


Try not to be a complete sheep for a moment and stop bringing up what people say as if it's evidence. Your fatal flaw is you admit that Eli is elite this year but you can't provide numbers or proof from the previous stated years 07 to current that show that Eli was any less elite in those years. So make up your mind. Either Eli has been Elite since bringing the SB home or He never has and still isn't Elite. Gotta pick one.</P>


Huh? You want numbers? You really want to talk numbers? Look at QB rating. And i know you're going to say stats don't tell the entire story etc etc. Well, you just told me to look at numbers. And I have no idea why in that head of yours you think it's either he's elite since 2007 or not. Eli is playing out of his mind this year. He's far different this year compared to years past. That's as clear as night and day.So why on earth do i need to pick one? Not sure what this year has anything to do with previous years?</P>


Guy his numbers are all basically the same thats why. You say he's Elite this year but he's thrown 16 interceptions which is his career average. If 9 balls don't get tipped and intercepted last year he would have thrown 16 interceptions last year. His TD passes are actually down from last year. Why the hell are you bringing up passer rating???? Since you love the Passer Rating stat so much how bout this" His Passer rating in 09 WAS BETTER THAN IT IS THIS YEAR! In the other years after 07 he's never gone below an 85.3 passer rating which is not even 8 point off of this years total. Eli posted a higher completion Percentage in both 09 and 2010 than he posted this year when he suddenly became ELITE Actually the only stat that is markedly better this year than in past years is Passing Yards. Which is what happens when you boast a 32nd Ranked Rushing attack and poor defense. So you see my very confused friend in this case Stats do tell the whole story.</P>


I bring up passer rating because not only you, but burier WANTED to talk numbers. So, I'm gladly obliging. Trust me, Eli falls behind in almost every statistical category compared to his peers. I don't think you want to go there.</P>


A passer rating of 85 is middle of the pack. In 2010, he was 17th. In 2009, he was 11th. In 2008, he was 14th. In 2007, he was 25th. Prior to this year he was arguably average maybe even below stat wise. I'm confused? And weren't you one of those guys that championed "stats don't tell the entire story". Way to flip flop.</P>


If. If. If. I can give you a reason why Jemarcus Russell should be an elite QB if I rewatched all his games. And for the record, Eli's tipped ints - the fault goes on BOTH the WR and Eli. Most of those were poorly thrown balls as well.</P>


You know what makes a QB great? Consistency and great play. When Brees had an off year last year, why do people give him a pass? Because he's been consistenly great the years before. When Ben or even Rivers has an off year, do you know why people give him a pass? Because they've been consistently great before. The only times Eli has been arguably great is 2009 and this year. That's 2 out of his 8 years in the league. That's why when Eli has a bad year, it's just same ole same ole. He hasn't shown he can do it consistently. If he bombs next year, guess what. It WILL be "same ole Eli" all over again. For those reasons.</P>

GameTime
01-11-2012, 02:29 PM
oh my freakin god....</P>


are you ladies still cackling about this ****.......</P>


****ing nuts you guys are......[:D]</P>

gumby742
01-11-2012, 02:30 PM
Whatever u say buddy. I think its clear who has bliners on. Im not saying eli is the best or even top 3. But from the 2007passing playoff run until the end of reg season eli was phenomenal. Aaron rodgers is playing like eli did during his run, with more tds and better accuracy. Im in no way saying elis run was better than rodgers but team success and high level qb play make them comparable. Let's see if we beat them, they wont have there best wr shot in the leg either. 2009 eli started out thru like 6 or 7 games unreal. Had a small injury to his throwing foot, coulda missed four weeks or so as other players with plantar fasciatus this year alone. He thre 14 ints but killed it threw the air. We won 8 games that year in large part to eli. But the run game and d sucked. 2010 again eli played well and led us to wins. He forced more passes, maybe the ds play from the year before messed with him. But still forced throws and had a ton of dropped and tipped up passes for ints. Even with that, we were 8 min away from clinching the playoffs vs philly...we all know that defensive, for two years in a row mind u, collapses that cost us the season. Even with that, the next week in g , coulda clinched, d gives up 40 something and don't pin that on anyone else but the d, we were tied 14 to 14 late in the 2ncd and we tried to play catch up bc the d couldn't get a stop. Eli did still play well that year, although he threw for more ints than he did tne two years prior combined, still had great yardage, td, pass comp. Numbers. Then this year eli said, **** it run game and defende be damned, helped lead us to the playoffs where the run game and d were hiding I guess. Very similar to 09 tho, just couldn't get those two more wins when the d would just have to make one stop. "Oh he wasn't clutch" yeah he was the d jjst wouldn't stop anyone and let them score right back like vs sd that year... Face it eli has been an awesome qb for sometime now, the point he's playing his best ball, he's been right around this mark for some time. Just other factors like plex incident and bad defenses...well some people just don't even remember how well he played. Like did u just forget those years of play be eli???? Like I could careless what dallas fans and philly fans think of eli, or aikman or buck, I care but what I see play after play...that's why most of us here get how amazing elis been for the giants. Anyone wno can't acknowledge eli is one of the best in the game has blinders on. U REALIZE I'VE BEEN SAYING HOW GREAT ELIS BEEN FOR YEARS NOW just bc he made it abundantly clear for even dallas fans to have to admit doesn't mean that me and a few others who called this year homers simply bc we were right. Twas u who was wrong and u can spin it any way u want. I full out said eli was this good, like givng my honest thoughts his stat line would be and it was like 30tds, 4400 yards and 15u ints. Go look it up its in dragons thread. So bc I was right about how elis play makes ME the blind homer. Truth is, ur just late to the crowd. I knew eli was this good. nicely put. I wish the Eli hate crew would have just continued hating instead of trying to couch this nonsense about Eli suddenly playing so much better. Its so disengenuous and annoying. I also hate the fact that these people are basically saying "ESPN/NFL Net controls my brain." If Meril Hodge says Eli sucks he must suck. If Deion Sanders says Eli is Elite he must be elite. Its pathetic.</P>


Eli says he's playing better. Tuck says he's playing better. So what about that don't you understand?</P>

Ntegrase96
01-11-2012, 02:35 PM
He has a chance to go up to GB and beat AR where he has not lost in 1.5 years. </p>


Even though AR only has 1SB ring like Eli, he is viewed as a better qb. He has put up big numbers in winning SB last season and leading GB to 15-1 this season but Eli did almost same thing in 08 after winning SB. Went 11-1 until plax screwed it up</p>

I think Eli had a phenomenal year. He carried the team for much of the year and managed a 9-7 record.

That said. Rodgers destroyed him in most categories while leading his team to 14 wins and is fresh off a superbowl win.

Should Eli win another superbowl, he'll probably deserve the credit he gets, but many people (me included) realize that he wouldn't have a ring without one of the greatest playoff defenses of all time.

I know you guys are high on Eli, but even in this phenomenal year he had his turnovers were still pretty bad (20 in all), to 30 TDs. Compare that to Rodgers 48 TDs to just 6 turnovers. Even in this best year of Eli Manning, there were 3 QBs who had clearly better seasons than him.

And in 2008, Eli Manning wasn't the proponent of the Giants success, although he played well as that year he barely cracked 3000 yards. The main reason the Giants were good that year was because of a strong run game and defense. Once the ability to stretch the field was gone with Plax (or at least the threat of it) defenses could stack the box and DARED Eli to beat them. He couldn't.

phieagle1
01-11-2012, 02:35 PM
Eli sux we will all c that come sunday afternoon.you beat three lousy teams to get here. please. watch a real qb in rodgers. by the way flynn is better than manning

BigBlue wins
01-11-2012, 02:39 PM
I don't think it's worth arguing with someone who has gumby in their name, which is probably a stab at Eli already. Same goes for the phieagle post who is a troll from eagles MB watching the post season of better teams perform every year.

Eli is a great QB and performs when we need him to. He is reliable when it counts, and that is to win.

phieagle1
01-11-2012, 02:41 PM
wait n c next year when spags is in philly and we make eli look like a division 3 junior college qb with our defense

GameTime
01-11-2012, 02:42 PM
Eli sux we will all c that come sunday afternoon.you beat three lousy teams to get here. please. watch a real qb in rodgers. by the way flynn is better than manning</P>


How's Vick workingout for you guys...</P>


oh yeah.....still have an empty SB trophy case. Sucks to be an eagles fan. I would say Eli sucked too if I were you. </P>


</P>

GameTime
01-11-2012, 02:44 PM
wait n c next year when spags is in philly and we make eli look like a division 3 junior college qb with our defense</P>


"just you wait till next year"...</P>


thats is so ****ing funny. That is and always will be the Eagles mantra....</P>


you are idiot bro.....</P>


</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 02:45 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


*</P>


At least three.</P>


So 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 Looks like Eli passes the years test ey?</P>


You're nuts if you think that he had elite numbers in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.* Before this year, people were still labeling him as inconsistent and inaccurate.</P>


Try not to be a complete sheep for a moment and stop bringing up what people say as if it's evidence. Your fatal flaw is you admit that Eli is elite this year but you can't provide numbers or proof from the previous stated years 07 to current that show that Eli was any less elite in those years. So make up your mind. Either Eli has been Elite since bringing the SB home or He never has and still isn't Elite. Gotta pick one.</P>


Huh?* You want numbers?* You really want to talk numbers?* Look at QB rating.** And i know you're going to say stats don't tell the entire story etc etc.* Well, you just told me to look at numbers.* And I have no idea why in that head of yours you think it's either he's elite since 2007 or not.*** Eli is playing out of his mind this year.* He's far different this year compared to years past.* That's as clear as night and day.So why on earth do i need to pick one?* Not sure what this year has anything to do with previous years?</P>


Guy his numbers are all basically the same thats why. You say he's Elite this year but he's thrown 16 interceptions which is his career average. If 9 balls don't get tipped and intercepted last year he would have thrown 16 interceptions last year. His TD passes are actually down from last year. Why the hell are you bringing up passer rating???? Since you love the Passer Rating stat so much how bout this" His Passer rating in 09 WAS BETTER THAN IT IS THIS YEAR! In the other years after 07 he's never gone below an 85.3 passer rating which is not even 8 point off of this years total. Eli posted a higher completion Percentage in both 09 and 2010 than he posted this year when he suddenly became ELITE Actually the only stat that is markedly better this year than in past years is Passing Yards. Which is what happens when you boast a 32nd Ranked Rushing attack and poor defense. So you see my very confused friend in this case Stats do tell the whole story.</P>


I bring up passer rating because not only you, but burier WANTED to talk numbers.* So, I'm gladly obliging.* Trust me, Eli falls behind in almost every statistical category compared to his peers.* I don't think you want to go there.</P>


A passer rating of 85 is* middle of the pack.* In 2010, he was 17th.* In 2009, he was 11th.* In 2008, he was 14th.* In 2007, he was 25th.* Prior to this year he was arguably average maybe even below stat wise.* I'm confused?* And weren't you one of those guys that championed "stats don't tell the entire story".* Way to flip flop.</P>


If.* If.* If.* I can give you a reason why Jemarcus Russell should be an elite QB if I rewatched all his games.* And for the record, Eli's tipped ints - the fault goes on BOTH the WR and Eli.* Most of those were poorly thrown balls as well.</P>


You know what makes a QB great?* Consistency and great play.* When Brees had an off year last year, why do people give him a pass?* Because he's been consistenly great the years before.* When Ben or even Rivers has an off year, do you know why people give him a pass?* Because they've been consistently great before.** The only times Eli has been arguably great is 2009 and this year.* That's 2 out of his 8 years in the league.* That's why when Eli has a bad year, it's just same ole same ole.* He hasn't shown he can do it consistently.* If he bombs next year, guess what.* It WILL be "same ole Eli" all over again.* For those reasons.</P>

Flip Flop? Please.

There's more to football than stats but you and I don't see the same player when we look at Eli. We never will. I'm just using stats to inject some sort of factual basis to the discussion.


So ts real simple. Explain why Eli is elite this year but not elite in previous years when his stats are so similar.

phieagle1
01-11-2012, 02:45 PM
put him as elite qb is insane. at 6-6 you all wanted ur coaches fired and eli sucked. REX GROSSMAN. LOL LOL VINCE YOUNG LOL LOL. he stinks it will show. Philadelphia is the best team in that division this year. u kno it and so do I.

burier
01-11-2012, 02:47 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years.

Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method.

Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year.

U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made.

Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is

Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year.

Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year.

I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw

GameTime
01-11-2012, 02:48 PM
put him as elite qb is insane. at 6-6 you all wanted ur coaches fired and eli sucked. REX GROSSMAN. LOL LOL VINCE YOUNG LOL LOL. he stinks it will show. Philadelphia is the best team in that division this year. u kno it and so do I.</P>


your funnier then the Eagles actually are. No wonder they cant ever win all because their fans think they are the best even when they suck.....</P>


nice...you are still an idiot....</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 02:51 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is</P>


First you denounce stats, then you tell me numbers never lie.* Hmm.....</P>


Most Giant fans and outsiders alike would agree that Eli has been far different this year compared to years past.</P>


If Colt McCoy wasn't asked to throw 60 times a game, if Ben hadn't gotten into a motorcycle accident, had Ben had an offensive line, had Bradford not been on a bad team, had Jemarcus Russell not been drafted into a dysfunctional organisation, if Rivers hadn't gotten hurt, if Ryan Leaf wasn't under so much scrutiny ....give me a break.* You think Eli is the only victim of circumstance?</P>


So what you're saying is only a handful of people really know how to gauge his play.* The overwhelming majority just don't know any better.* Yeah.* Ok.</P>

Just so you know there is no overwhelming majority.

There's a few clowns on TV who guys like you follow around like a dog in heat. So really its a few opinions Vs a few biased opions with microphones

(Hate the way Eli talks, Hate the way Eli looks, Hate the way Eli refused to play for San Diego, Hate the Way that He's Peytons Little Brother..Hate all this **** that has nothing to do with his game)

DragonSoul
01-11-2012, 02:58 PM
He has a chance to go up to GB and beat AR where he has not lost in 1.5 years. </P>


Even though AR only has 1SB ring like Eli, he is viewed as a better qb. He has put up big numbers in winning SB last season and leading GB to 15-1 this season but Eli did almost same thing in 08 after winning SB. Went 11-1 until plax screwed it up</P>Wont matter if the defense doesn't step up. Hopefully it won't be a repeat from the defensive stand point.

lawl
01-11-2012, 02:59 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is</P>


First you denounce stats, then you tell me numbers never lie. Hmm.....</P>


Most Giant fans and outsiders alike would agree that Eli has been far different this year compared to years past.</P>


If Colt McCoy wasn't asked to throw 60 times a game, if Ben hadn't gotten into a motorcycle accident, had Ben had an offensive line, had Bradford not been on a bad team, had Jemarcus Russell not been drafted into a dysfunctional organisation, if Rivers hadn't gotten hurt, if Ryan Leaf wasn't under so much scrutiny ....give me a break. You think Eli is the only victim of circumstance?</P>


So what you're saying is only a handful of people really know how to gauge his play. The overwhelming majority just don't know any better. Yeah. Ok.</P>


Just so you know there is no overwhelming majority. There's a few clowns on TV who guys like you follow around like a dog in heat. So really its a few opinions Vs a few biased opions with microphones (Hate the way Eli talks, Hate the way Eli looks, Hate the way Eli refused to play for San Diego, Hate the Way that He's Peytons Little Brother..Hate all this **** that has nothing to do with his game)</P>


There's like 5 people in the world that think Eli isn't playing much better now than he ever has.</P>


And then theres 1 VERY SPECIAL person who thinks he's the best in the league.</P>


Hmm, exactly who's opinion would seem to be biased? I WONDER.</P>


"Eli obviously is playing at another level than he was in '07," <FONT color=#980001>Justin Tuck</FONT> (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8488/justin-tuck) said of the Super Bowl MVP.</P>

gumby742
01-11-2012, 03:01 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. lol what do you call years and years??</P>


</P>


At least three.</P>


So 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 Looks like Eli passes the years test ey?</P>


You're nuts if you think that he had elite numbers in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. Before this year, people were still labeling him as inconsistent and inaccurate.</P>


Try not to be a complete sheep for a moment and stop bringing up what people say as if it's evidence. Your fatal flaw is you admit that Eli is elite this year but you can't provide numbers or proof from the previous stated years 07 to current that show that Eli was any less elite in those years. So make up your mind. Either Eli has been Elite since bringing the SB home or He never has and still isn't Elite. Gotta pick one.</P>


Huh? You want numbers? You really want to talk numbers? Look at QB rating. And i know you're going to say stats don't tell the entire story etc etc. Well, you just told me to look at numbers. And I have no idea why in that head of yours you think it's either he's elite since 2007 or not. Eli is playing out of his mind this year. He's far different this year compared to years past. That's as clear as night and day.So why on earth do i need to pick one? Not sure what this year has anything to do with previous years?</P>


Guy his numbers are all basically the same thats why. You say he's Elite this year but he's thrown 16 interceptions which is his career average. If 9 balls don't get tipped and intercepted last year he would have thrown 16 interceptions last year. His TD passes are actually down from last year. Why the hell are you bringing up passer rating???? Since you love the Passer Rating stat so much how bout this" His Passer rating in 09 WAS BETTER THAN IT IS THIS YEAR! In the other years after 07 he's never gone below an 85.3 passer rating which is not even 8 point off of this years total. Eli posted a higher completion Percentage in both 09 and 2010 than he posted this year when he suddenly became ELITE Actually the only stat that is markedly better this year than in past years is Passing Yards. Which is what happens when you boast a 32nd Ranked Rushing attack and poor defense. So you see my very confused friend in this case Stats do tell the whole story.</P>


I bring up passer rating because not only you, but burier WANTED to talk numbers. So, I'm gladly obliging. Trust me, Eli falls behind in almost every statistical category compared to his peers. I don't think you want to go there.</P>


A passer rating of 85 is middle of the pack. In 2010, he was 17th. In 2009, he was 11th. In 2008, he was 14th. In 2007, he was 25th. Prior to this year he was arguably average maybe even below stat wise. I'm confused? And weren't you one of those guys that championed "stats don't tell the entire story". Way to flip flop.</P>


If. If. If. I can give you a reason why Jemarcus Russell should be an elite QB if I rewatched all his games. And for the record, Eli's tipped ints - the fault goes on BOTH the WR and Eli. Most of those were poorly thrown balls as well.</P>


You know what makes a QB great? Consistency and great play. When Brees had an off year last year, why do people give him a pass? Because he's been consistenly great the years before. When Ben or even Rivers has an off year, do you know why people give him a pass? Because they've been consistently great before. The only times Eli has been arguably great is 2009 and this year. That's 2 out of his 8 years in the league. That's why when Eli has a bad year, it's just same ole same ole. He hasn't shown he can do it consistently. If he bombs next year, guess what. It WILL be "same ole Eli" all over again. For those reasons.</P>


Flip Flop? Please. There's more to football than stats but you and I don't see the same player when we look at Eli. We never will. I'm just using stats to inject some sort of factual basis to the discussion. So ts real simple. Explain why Eli is elite this year but not elite in previous years when his stats are so similar.</P>


Other then 2009, his stats are NOT similar. I don't know where you get that.I know you're going to bring up TDs, yards etc. No. TakeALL of his stats collectively including ALL of his years starting. One stat by itself is meaningless. One year by itself is meaningless.</P>


imo, Decision making, accuracy, and overall presence. Neither except decision making/turnovers is tangible. Accuracy is being reflected in his increased yards per attempt - which means hitting a WR in stride and between the #'s. No more making the WR do spins in the air to make a catch that otherwise should have been a big play for an easy TD. He knows when to throw the ball away and not force it in there. He clearly carried our team this year. He was the man. Plain and simple. Any Giants fans that proclaims otherwise is just a troll.</P>


He's a different animal this year. Everyone in Giants land sees it and it's profound enough that everyone outside of Giants land sees it too.</P>


You andthe othersmall handful of Eli fan club members are in the overwhelming minority when you think Eli has been elite all this time. If I'm in that situation, I'll at least seriously consider that my thinking is very, very wrong. It's painfully obvious that you haven't done that.</P>

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:02 PM
Hell, I dont even think NoHuddle10 and rebelfan think Eli is the best in the league.

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:03 PM
Eli has thrown the ball away more than twice as many times as he did last year. I unfortunately do not have a link for this but gfan420 I know has seen this.</P>


That in itself is a huge alteration in his style of play.</P>

gumby742
01-11-2012, 03:03 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level. But thanks for proving my point.</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 03:07 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is</P>


First you denounce stats, then you tell me numbers never lie.* Hmm.....</P>


Most Giant fans and outsiders alike would agree that Eli has been far different this year compared to years past.</P>


If Colt McCoy wasn't asked to throw 60 times a game, if Ben hadn't gotten into a motorcycle accident, had Ben had an offensive line, had Bradford not been on a bad team, had Jemarcus Russell not been drafted into a dysfunctional organisation, if Rivers hadn't gotten hurt, if Ryan Leaf wasn't under so much scrutiny ....give me a break.* You think Eli is the only victim of circumstance?</P>


So what you're saying is only a handful of people really know how to gauge his play.* The overwhelming majority just don't know any better.* Yeah.* Ok.</P>


Just so you know there is no overwhelming majority. There's a few clowns on TV who guys like you follow around like a dog in heat. So really its a few opinions Vs a few biased opions with microphones (Hate the way Eli talks, Hate the way Eli looks, Hate the way Eli refused to play for San Diego, Hate the Way that He's Peytons Little Brother..Hate all this **** that has nothing to do with his game)</P>


There's like 5 people in the world that think Eli isn't playing much better now than he ever has.</P>


And then theres 1 VERY SPECIAL person who thinks he's the best in the league.</P>


Hmm, exactly who's opinion would seem to be biased? I WONDER.</P>


"Eli obviously is playing at another level than he was in '07," <FONT color=#980001>Justin Tuck</FONT> (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8488/justin-tuck) said of the Super Bowl MVP.</P>

Listen hooked on phonics, Kevin Gilbride says Eli has made the same small strides that he's been making his whole career.

But you cherry pick your information to suit your cause which we educated folk call "rationalizing"

And I'm starting to laugh at the idea that majority opinion somehow consitutes a fact.

GMENAGAIN
01-11-2012, 03:09 PM
wait n c next year when spags is in philly and we make eli look like a division 3 junior college qb with our defense</P>


It's always "wait til next year for you guys", huh? Sad . . . . . .</P>

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:09 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is</P>


First you denounce stats, then you tell me numbers never lie. Hmm.....</P>


Most Giant fans and outsiders alike would agree that Eli has been far different this year compared to years past.</P>


If Colt McCoy wasn't asked to throw 60 times a game, if Ben hadn't gotten into a motorcycle accident, had Ben had an offensive line, had Bradford not been on a bad team, had Jemarcus Russell not been drafted into a dysfunctional organisation, if Rivers hadn't gotten hurt, if Ryan Leaf wasn't under so much scrutiny ....give me a break. You think Eli is the only victim of circumstance?</P>


So what you're saying is only a handful of people really know how to gauge his play. The overwhelming majority just don't know any better. Yeah. Ok.</P>


Just so you know there is no overwhelming majority. There's a few clowns on TV who guys like you follow around like a dog in heat. So really its a few opinions Vs a few biased opions with microphones (Hate the way Eli talks, Hate the way Eli looks, Hate the way Eli refused to play for San Diego, Hate the Way that He's Peytons Little Brother..Hate all this **** that has nothing to do with his game)</P>


There's like 5 people in the world that think Eli isn't playing much better now than he ever has.</P>


And then theres 1 VERY SPECIAL person who thinks he's the best in the league.</P>


Hmm, exactly who's opinion would seem to be biased? I WONDER.</P>


"Eli obviously is playing at another level than he was in '07," <FONT color=#980001>Justin Tuck</FONT> (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8488/justin-tuck) said of the Super Bowl MVP.</P>


Listen hooked on phonics, Kevin Gilbride says Eli has made the same small strides that he's been making his whole career. But you cherry pick your information to suit your cause which we educated folk call "rationalizing" And I'm starting to laugh at the idea that majority opinion somehow consitutes a fact.</P>


So first there is no overwhelming majority, but now there is?</P>


Please rationalize how Eli is the best Qb in the league.</P>


Good Luck.</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 03:11 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level.* But thanks for proving my point.</P>

haha.

No your point is that Eli was a mediocre QB and is now Elite.

incremental /??nkr?'m?ntl, ???-/ Show Spelled[in-kruh-men-tl, ing-] Show IPA
adjective
increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series: SMALL, incremental tax hikes.


So are you prepared to change your position to "Eli is playing slightly better this year"

If so. Fine. We agree.

burier
01-11-2012, 03:13 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is</P>


First you denounce stats, then you tell me numbers never lie.* Hmm.....</P>


Most Giant fans and outsiders alike would agree that Eli has been far different this year compared to years past.</P>


If Colt McCoy wasn't asked to throw 60 times a game, if Ben hadn't gotten into a motorcycle accident, had Ben had an offensive line, had Bradford not been on a bad team, had Jemarcus Russell not been drafted into a dysfunctional organisation, if Rivers hadn't gotten hurt, if Ryan Leaf wasn't under so much scrutiny ....give me a break.* You think Eli is the only victim of circumstance?</P>


So what you're saying is only a handful of people really know how to gauge his play.* The overwhelming majority just don't know any better.* Yeah.* Ok.</P>


Just so you know there is no overwhelming majority. There's a few clowns on TV who guys like you follow around like a dog in heat. So really its a few opinions Vs a few biased opions with microphones (Hate the way Eli talks, Hate the way Eli looks, Hate the way Eli refused to play for San Diego, Hate the Way that He's Peytons Little Brother..Hate all this **** that has nothing to do with his game)</P>


There's like 5 people in the world that think Eli isn't playing much better now than he ever has.</P>


And then theres 1 VERY SPECIAL person who thinks he's the best in the league.</P>


Hmm, exactly who's opinion would seem to be biased? I WONDER.</P>


"Eli obviously is playing at another level than he was in '07," <FONT color=#980001>Justin Tuck</FONT> (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8488/justin-tuck) said of the Super Bowl MVP.</P>


Listen hooked on phonics, Kevin Gilbride says Eli has made the same small strides that he's been making his whole career. But you cherry pick your information to suit your cause which we educated folk call "rationalizing" And I'm starting to laugh at the idea that majority opinion somehow consitutes a fact.</P>


So first there is no overwhelming majority, but now there is?</P>


Please rationalize how Eli is the best Qb in the league.</P>


Good Luck.</P>

You're overmatched here so head over to the kiddy table. The adults are talking.

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:15 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level. But thanks for proving my point.</P>


haha. No your point is that Eli was a mediocre QB and is now Elite. incremental /??nkr?'m?ntl, ???-/ Show Spelled[in-kruh-men-tl, ing-] Show IPA adjective increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series: SMALL, incremental tax hikes. So are you prepared to change your position to "Eli is playing slightly better this year" If so. Fine. We agree.</P>


Increments can be large or small....</P>


You are aware of this right?</P>

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:16 PM
You're overmatched here so head over to the kiddy table. The adults are talking.</P>


Atleast you're funny.</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 03:18 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level.* But thanks for proving my point.</P>


haha. No your point is that Eli was a mediocre QB and is now Elite. incremental /??nkr?'m?ntl, ???-/ Show Spelled[in-kruh-men-tl, ing-] Show IPA adjective increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series: SMALL, incremental tax hikes. So are you prepared to change your position to "Eli is playing slightly better this year" If so. Fine. We agree.</P>


Increments can be large or small....</P>


You are aware of this right?</P>

Sure, but not in the context Kevin Gilbride used the word.

"Excerpt: "New York Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride admitted this week that quarterback Eli Manning's tendency to throw off his back foot occasionally still bothers him, saying "I don't like it when he's falling away." Gilbride, though, said that Manning has continued to make "steady, incremental growth" as a quarterback.
"If you want to just assess him by the interceptions, then you say last year was a horrible year. But by every other category it was a terrific year and it was a continuation of his improvement. This year, the continuation has continued, but also the interceptions are down. Now on all aspects, he's playing very well," Gilbride said. "Really in all categories, except for the interceptions, last year, that was a career year. It was a career year - touchdown passes, completion percentage, yardage, all of those things were tremendous. I think the focus has been to be more careful, to say, The best thing I can do is take a sack or throw the ball away,' which he's done a terrific job with for the most part. "

you wanna keep it goin?

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:20 PM
Sure, but not in the context Kevin Gilbride used the word.</P>


link?</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 03:23 PM
http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/2325436.aspx

got pretty quiet in here.

gumby742
01-11-2012, 03:32 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level. But thanks for proving my point.</P>


haha. No your point is that Eli was a mediocre QB and is now Elite. incremental /??nkr?'m?ntl, ???-/ Show Spelled[in-kruh-men-tl, ing-] Show IPA adjective increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series: SMALL, incremental tax hikes. So are you prepared to change your position to "Eli is playing slightly better this year" If so. Fine. We agree.</P>


Increments can be large or small....</P>


You are aware of this right?</P>


Sure, but not in the context Kevin Gilbride used the word. "Excerpt: "New York Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride admitted this week that quarterback Eli Manning's tendency to throw off his back foot occasionally still bothers him, saying "I don't like it when he's falling away." Gilbride, though, said that Manning has continued to make "steady, incremental growth" as a quarterback. "If you want to just assess him by the interceptions, then you say last year was a horrible year. But by every other category it was a terrific year and it was a continuation of his improvement. This year, the continuation has continued, but also the interceptions are down. Now on all aspects, he's playing very well," Gilbride said. "Really in all categories, except for the interceptions, last year, that was a career year. It was a career year - touchdown passes, completion percentage, yardage, all of those things were tremendous. I think the focus has been to be more careful, to say, The best thing I can do is take a sack or throw the ball away,' which he's done a terrific job with for the most part. " you wanna keep it goin?</P>


Sure. I'd say that changing your style of play with better decision makingANDfewer interceptionsis a pretty huge improvement. No?</P>

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:32 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level. But thanks for proving my point.</P>


haha. No your point is that Eli was a mediocre QB and is now Elite. incremental /??nkr?'m?ntl, ???-/ Show Spelled[in-kruh-men-tl, ing-] Show IPA adjective increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series: SMALL, incremental tax hikes. So are you prepared to change your position to "Eli is playing slightly better this year" If so. Fine. We agree.</P>


Increments can be large or small....</P>


You are aware of this right?</P>


Sure, but not in the context Kevin Gilbride used the word. "Excerpt: "New York Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride admitted this week that quarterback Eli Manning's tendency to throw off his back foot occasionally still bothers him, saying "I don't like it when he's falling away." Gilbride, though, said that Manning has continued to make "steady, incremental growth" as a quarterback. "If you want to just assess him by the interceptions, then you say last year was a horrible year. But by every other category it was a terrific year and it was a continuation of his improvement. This year, the continuation has continued, but also the interceptions are down. Now on all aspects, he's playing very well," Gilbride said. "Really in all categories, except for the interceptions, last year, that was a career year. It was a career year - touchdown passes, completion percentage, yardage, all of those things were tremendous. I think the focus has been to be more careful, to say, The best thing I can do is take a sack or throw the ball away,' which he's done a terrific job with for the most part. " you wanna keep it goin?</P>


So he gets better for 4 years in a row and he's still on the same level? Not just that, he's the best in the league??</P>


He is hands down a better QB than he was in the past and the obvious improvement was the need to take sacks and throw the ball away. Which so many people have stated in the offseason. This year he has thrown the ball away twice as many times as last year. DOUBLE!</P>


Gilbride also talks out of his *** alot in this quote, just like every coach does to the media. He didnt have a career year last year in all categories, not even yardage which Gilbride clearly states.</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 03:34 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level.* But thanks for proving my point.</P>


haha. No your point is that Eli was a mediocre QB and is now Elite. incremental /??nkr?'m?ntl, ???-/ Show Spelled[in-kruh-men-tl, ing-] Show IPA adjective increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series: SMALL, incremental tax hikes. So are you prepared to change your position to "Eli is playing slightly better this year" If so. Fine. We agree.</P>


Increments can be large or small....</P>


You are aware of this right?</P>


Sure, but not in the context Kevin Gilbride used the word. "Excerpt: "New York Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride admitted this week that quarterback Eli Manning's tendency to throw off his back foot occasionally still bothers him, saying "I don't like it when he's falling away." Gilbride, though, said that Manning has continued to make "steady, incremental growth" as a quarterback. "If you want to just assess him by the interceptions, then you say last year was a horrible year. But by every other category it was a terrific year and it was a continuation of his improvement. This year, the continuation has continued, but also the interceptions are down. Now on all aspects, he's playing very well," Gilbride said. "Really in all categories, except for the interceptions, last year, that was a career year. It was a career year - touchdown passes, completion percentage, yardage, all of those things were tremendous. I think the focus has been to be more careful, to say, The best thing I can do is take a sack or throw the ball away,' which he's done a terrific job with for the most part. " you wanna keep it goin?</P>


Sure.* I'd say that changing your style of play with better decision making*AND**fewer interceptions*is a pretty huge improvement. No?</P>

I'd say making you're annual improvements to your game and cutting down on a very uncharacteristic INT number isn't all that drastic.

The fact that the 25 int were so out of character for Eli is key. If Eli usually threw that many INTs in a season and then cut them down I'd find that sort of improvement more impressive.

But when a guy throws more INTS in one year than he did in the previous two years combined....its pretty safe to assume that numbers gonna come down. A fluke as it were.

But you see that's all subjective.

All I can say is that Kevin Gilbride agrees with me and the stats agree with me.

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:35 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts. He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy. You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level. But thanks for proving my point.</P>


haha. No your point is that Eli was a mediocre QB and is now Elite. incremental /??nkr?'m?ntl, ???-/ Show Spelled[in-kruh-men-tl, ing-] Show IPA adjective increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series: SMALL, incremental tax hikes. So are you prepared to change your position to "Eli is playing slightly better this year" If so. Fine. We agree.</P>


Increments can be large or small....</P>


You are aware of this right?</P>


Sure, but not in the context Kevin Gilbride used the word. "Excerpt: "New York Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride admitted this week that quarterback Eli Manning's tendency to throw off his back foot occasionally still bothers him, saying "I don't like it when he's falling away." Gilbride, though, said that Manning has continued to make "steady, incremental growth" as a quarterback. "If you want to just assess him by the interceptions, then you say last year was a horrible year. But by every other category it was a terrific year and it was a continuation of his improvement. This year, the continuation has continued, but also the interceptions are down. Now on all aspects, he's playing very well," Gilbride said. "Really in all categories, except for the interceptions, last year, that was a career year. It was a career year - touchdown passes, completion percentage, yardage, all of those things were tremendous. I think the focus has been to be more careful, to say, The best thing I can do is take a sack or throw the ball away,' which he's done a terrific job with for the most part. " you wanna keep it goin?</P>


Sure. I'd say that changing your style of play with better decision makingANDfewer interceptionsis a pretty huge improvement. No?</P>


I'd say making you're annual improvements to your game and cutting down on a very uncharacteristic INT number isn't all that drastic. But you see that's all subjective. All I can say is that Kevin Gilbride agrees with me and the stats agree with me.</P>


The stats dont agree with you at all.</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 03:37 PM
Man, you Eli folk are nuts.* He has ONE, for lack of a better word, "elite" year, and you guys are going crazy.* You're comparing him to guys who have been great for years and years. Just bc u favor fantasy football stats when determining "great" years doesn't mean we have to use ur method. Eli HAS AND IS GREAT, 2007 playoff run til this year and beyond, eli has been spectacular. If 8 passes get caught last year instead of tipped ud have absolutely nothing to support ur claims, unless u honestly think eli is the only great qb to have a stinker or two a year. U look at elis stats and measure them up to qbs who r in a completely diff. System. Know what's interesting, the giants have 15I or so 1u yd td runs as a result from the passing game getting us to the 1yd line. Saw it on espn numbers never lie. That's realitisically maybe 10I more td passes that could have been if not for one yard. Kind off off topic but it proves a point, u can't compare players strictly on stats when diff. Systems determine a lot of the reasons certain stats are made. Had our run game played well there's no way eli throws for 5000u yds...see what I mean? Eli has been phenomenal for years now, just bc people don't know how to really gage his play doesn't change how awesome he is Even tuck said hes playing on a different level this year. Even Gilbride said that he has seen "INCREMENTAL improvement" this year. I'm gonna say Gilbride has grander perspective on Eli's game than does Justin Tuck who was MIA half the season btw</P>


Huh? Incremental improvement = different level.* But thanks for proving my point.</P>


haha. No your point is that Eli was a mediocre QB and is now Elite. incremental /??nkr?'m?ntl, ???-/ Show Spelled[in-kruh-men-tl, ing-] Show IPA adjective increasing or adding on, especially in a regular series: SMALL, incremental tax hikes. So are you prepared to change your position to "Eli is playing slightly better this year" If so. Fine. We agree.</P>


Increments can be large or small....</P>


You are aware of this right?</P>


Sure, but not in the context Kevin Gilbride used the word. "Excerpt: "New York Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride admitted this week that quarterback Eli Manning's tendency to throw off his back foot occasionally still bothers him, saying "I don't like it when he's falling away." Gilbride, though, said that Manning has continued to make "steady, incremental growth" as a quarterback. "If you want to just assess him by the interceptions, then you say last year was a horrible year. But by every other category it was a terrific year and it was a continuation of his improvement. This year, the continuation has continued, but also the interceptions are down. Now on all aspects, he's playing very well," Gilbride said. "Really in all categories, except for the interceptions, last year, that was a career year. It was a career year - touchdown passes, completion percentage, yardage, all of those things were tremendous. I think the focus has been to be more careful, to say, The best thing I can do is take a sack or throw the ball away,' which he's done a terrific job with for the most part. " you wanna keep it goin?</P>


Sure.* I'd say that changing your style of play with better decision making*AND**fewer interceptions*is a pretty huge improvement. No?</P>


I'd say making you're annual improvements to your game and cutting down on a very uncharacteristic INT number isn't all that drastic. But you see that's all subjective. All I can say is that Kevin Gilbride agrees with me and the stats agree with me.</P>


The stats dont agree with you at all.</P>

sigh...go check Eli's career stats yourself if you don't believe me.

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:40 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>

lawl
01-11-2012, 03:43 PM
I can do every year from 07 on if you'd like. The only one that will be comparable will be 2009 and I thought he was amazing in 2009.

burier
01-11-2012, 03:48 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>

Its called critical thinking.

I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite.

you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td.

The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions.

But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined.

(Career average is around 17 per year)

The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse.

(You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell)

So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.

lawl
01-11-2012, 04:04 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptionswere out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>

burier
01-11-2012, 04:15 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>

So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers?

Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky

And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli.

So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there.

Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation.

Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.

gmen0820
01-11-2012, 04:21 PM
wait n c next year when spags is in philly and we make eli look like a division 3 junior college qb with our defenseDon't be so sure Spags will be an Eagle.

miked1958
01-11-2012, 04:32 PM
Eli sux we will all c that come sunday afternoon.you beat three lousy teams to get here. please. watch a real qb in rodgers. by the way flynn is better than manning</P>


LOL Flynn... please. WHY DONT YOU JUST GO DUST OUT THAT EMPTY TROPHY CASE AND LEAVE THE SB TALK TO THE BIG BOYS...thanks. now be GONE</P>

miked1958
01-11-2012, 04:39 PM
put him as elite qb is insane. at 6-6 you all wanted ur coaches fired and eli sucked. REX GROSSMAN. LOL LOL VINCE YOUNG LOL LOL. he stinks it will show. Philadelphia is the best team in that division this year. u kno it and so do I.</P>


Actually we were 6-6 because of Eli. With a ton of injury issues with all 3 WRs and both RBs and TE during the season he was the one that held things together and had i think 5comeback wins in late 4th quarter to pull games out. Almost did it to GB. When the D was missing a ton of guys and couldnt stop anyone he was the one keeping us in games. If not for a Tipped ball against the Seahawks he prob pulls that game out. </P>


He didnt have a great record this season at 9-7 like AR did. but he was not the reason for the reason for that. Injury was the problem on both sides of the ball. </P>


I think you will be surprised and upset sunday when you see how well he will play in that setting and deep down wish you had a QB like him</P>

miked1958
01-11-2012, 04:49 PM
Eli had a great game vs AR except for the one pick six to matthews. If he can go up there and out perform rodgers it could get things in motion tomove himinto the top 3. also compared to Brees they both have 1SB ring but brees has broken major records and has out preformed Eli in head to head games. That why i hope we can play them againin NFCCG and Eli out play Drew Then you have Brady. 3SB rings. although Eli has down well head to head in last game of 07 and in the SB. also went up there and ended Bradys 2year streak this season</P>


why does that even matter.....</P>


not busting you I just dont get it. What so you can say Eli is better then Rodgers??</P>


I have news for you even if the Giants win Rodgers is still one of the best QBs in the league hands down and will still be considered a better QB by most. </P>


</P>


</P>



+1.....although if he got another ring that would shut up a lot of people. I, as well as many Giants fans, know that Eli can get another ring, we knew it even before this year which has turned out to be his best.

I think another ring would shut up all the haters and jealous people that said he got lucky in 07 and how the defense won that championship and all that other garbage. Not only would it shut them up, but all the cowboy clowns could shut their mouth and stop talking about how Romo&gt;Eli.
</P>


Thats what i am saying. Alot of people want to believe that 07 was some kind of fluke or luck. They say if Samuel caught that INT on sidelines that Eli would not even be considered a top 10qb.

I would just love to see him win it all this season with all the problems this team has had to go through to shut everyone up.</P>


It was not that long ago that this board was SCREAMING and filled with posts like "BRING IN A VET WR"</P>


Thanks to Eli alot of that talk is now long GONE</P>


He lost Tiki and Shocky and wins a SB. He Lost PLAX and had nothing but inexperienced Young WRs to work with and puts up close to 5000 yards while having no running game to speak of so the other teams knew he was going to throw and still couldnt stop it. </P>


Eli is Elite in our book as giants fans, we all know that.</P>


Now the rest of the Country will find that out over the next few weeks</P>


Better then Big Ben, Better then Rivers, ROMO and Shaub, Ryan, Sanchez</P>


and soon better then the BIG 3</P>


</P>

Gianthunter
01-11-2012, 05:08 PM
It would be a nice notch in the ol gunbelt.

GameTime
01-11-2012, 05:27 PM
Mommy Mommy Eli is the bestest QB ever and Billy says his not. Dont worry Timmy....Billy just has a different point of veiw. </P>


Mommy Mommy Timmy says Eli is the bestest QB ever and I say he is not. Who is right Mommy???...</P>


Well Billy....neither you nor Timmy are totally right. Some in the middle in the truth.</P>


</P>


OMG guys....get the **** over this already.</P>


It is fun though....:)</P>

Itlan
01-11-2012, 05:31 PM
I can do every year from 07 on if you'd like. The only one that will be comparable will be 2009 and I thought he was amazing in 2009.Remove 12 of those interceptions from 2010 and provide me the updated stats. I'm not arguing, I'm just curious.

DragonSoul
01-11-2012, 05:40 PM
what round are we on 15th?

lawl
01-11-2012, 07:27 PM
I can do every year from 07 on if you'd like. The only one that will be comparable will be 2009 and I thought he was amazing in 2009.Remove 12 of those interceptions from 2010 and provide me the updated stats. I'm not arguing, I'm just curious.</P>


</P>


'10 to '11 stat comparison(w/ 12 less ints in '10)</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


23%worsening in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>

lawl
01-11-2012, 07:33 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affectingone's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>

NoHuddle10
01-11-2012, 07:35 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>

You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.

lawl
01-11-2012, 07:38 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affectingone's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.</P>


Nah, this guy's crazier than you. He thinks Eli is the best in the league (and has been for a couple years)</P>

NoHuddle10
01-11-2012, 07:44 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.</P>


Nah, this guy's crazier than you. He thinks Eli is the best in the league (and has been for a couple years)</P>

You are the crazy one if you cant at least understand why some people rate Eli so high.


It would be easier to argue Eli being the best in the league, then it would be to argue he isnt top 8 in the league...


Your assesment is just as off as his is.

lawl
01-11-2012, 07:47 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affectingone's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.</P>


Nah, this guy's crazier than you. He thinks Eli is the best in the league (and has been for a couple years)</P>


You are the crazy one if you cant at least understand why some people rate Eli so high. It would be easier to argue Eli being the best in the league, then it would be to argue he isnt top 8 in the league... Your assesment is just as off as his is.</P>


I have never said how high up the totem pole I think Eli is.</P>


Never. </P>

gumby742
01-12-2012, 08:39 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affectingone's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.</P>


Nah, this guy's crazier than you. He thinks Eli is the best in the league (and has been for a couple years)</P>


You are the crazy one if you cant at least understand why some people rate Eli so high. It would be easier to argue Eli being the best in the league, then it would be to argue he isnt top 8 in the league... Your assesment is just as off as his is.</P>


Funny thing is not once has anyone said he was not top 8 or top 10 unless they were obviously trolling. For the last3-4 years in the Eli debate, most people acknowledged that he was at least top 10. Then you have the Eli fan boys club with a total of 10 or fewer members that just go crazy and take it to the nth degree. That's how it usually starts.</P>


H:"Eli is the 3rd best QB in the league"</P>


R:"No way. I think he's at least top8, but there are others that are above him."</P>


H:"He threw for 40 TD passes this year."</P>


R:"What about the rest of the stats? You can't selected ignore certain stats."</P>


H:"Eli had to deal with adversity this year. Stats don't tell the entire story anyway. Eli's SB MVP award gives me all the knowledge I need."</P>


R:"Winning the SB is a team sport and you don't think other QBs have to deal with adversity?"</P>


H: "Haters are gonna hate."</P>


......</P>


Lost in all this is that Person R thinks Eli is at least top 8/10 in the NFL. He's just not foaming at the mouth about Eli like you fan boys are.</P>

burier
01-12-2012, 11:29 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>

I'll grant you that some of the tipped balls were bad throws if you grant me that every quarterback throws a bad ball that gets tipped and they more often than not, or certainly more often than Eli experienced in 2010 hit the turf.

But that's not really my point. the number 25 is an anomolly. Eli even in his first year as a starter didn't throw that many. Something that somone does once in 8 years does not speak to the total quality of the player. That's my point. And note that he had career numbers in all the positive stats aswell. Why is that written off and ignored?

Food for thought. He might just be playing nice but this is what he said:

"I dont know if it was Justin Tuck, or one of those guys said, You cant spell elite without the e-l-i, Rodgers said. I thought that was pretty intelligent there. But hes played great, for the majority of his career, especially the LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS hes been at the top of his game. Its fun to watch. He throws the ball efficiently, he has good feel in the pocket, hes a winner, hes consistent.

Hes playing great, which makes it difficult for our defense. Offensively, youve got to expect them to play well and us to need to score some points. - Aaron Rogers

burier
01-12-2012, 11:34 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.</P>


Nah, this guy's crazier than you. He thinks Eli is the best in the league (and has been for a couple years)</P>

Also if you can't quote me correctly please refrain.

It was not until two weeks ago that I said Eli was the best Quarterback in the league. I never said it before then because I didn't believe it before then. ( Thought he's been top 5 since 07)

Please get it right

gumby742
01-12-2012, 12:16 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affectingone's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


I'll grant you that some of the tipped balls were bad throws if you grant me that every quarterback throws a bad ball that gets tipped and they more often than not, or certainly more often than Eli experienced in 2010 hit the turf. But that's not really my point. the number 25 is an anomolly. Eli even in his first year as a starter didn't throw that many. Something that somone does once in 8 years does not speak to the total quality of the player. That's my point. And note that he had career numbers in all the positive stats aswell. Why is that written off and ignored? Food for thought. He might just be playing nice but this is what he said: "I dont know if it was Justin Tuck, or one of those guys said, You cant spell elite without the e-l-i, Rodgers said. I thought that was pretty intelligent there. But hes played great, for the majority of his career, especially the LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS hes been at the top of his game. Its fun to watch. He throws the ball efficiently, he has good feel in the pocket, hes a winner, hes consistent. Hes playing great, which makes it difficult for our defense. Offensively, youve got to expect them to play well and us to need to score some points. - Aaron Rogers</P>


You're completely losing context. The context is Eli's over all play. That's the basic unit we're assessing here. You can't choose to ignore a piece from it.</P>


That's like saying Rivers did not have an off year this year because his # of int he threw were clearly an anomally.</P>


Fact is fact, anomally or not, reason or not, Rivers had an off year.</P>

buffyblue
01-12-2012, 12:23 PM
The fact that folks are argueing that a quarterback that just threw for almost 5,000 yards this year and has repeatedly come up big is not ELIte is a joke. Eli Manning is the best QB NY Giants have ever had.

I bELIeve

burier
01-12-2012, 12:35 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


I'll grant you that some of the tipped balls were bad throws if you grant me that every quarterback throws a bad ball that gets tipped and they more often than not, or certainly more often than Eli experienced in 2010 hit the turf. But that's not really my point. the number 25 is an anomolly. Eli even in his first year as a starter didn't throw that many. Something that somone does once in 8 years does not speak to the total quality of the player. That's my point. And note that he had career numbers in all the positive stats aswell. Why is that written off and ignored? Food for thought. He might just be playing nice but this is what he said: "I dont know if it was Justin Tuck, or one of those guys said, You cant spell elite without the e-l-i, Rodgers said. I thought that was pretty intelligent there. But hes played great, for the majority of his career, especially the LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS hes been at the top of his game. Its fun to watch. He throws the ball efficiently, he has good feel in the pocket, hes a winner, hes consistent. Hes playing great, which makes it difficult for our defense. Offensively, youve got to expect them to play well and us to need to score some points. - Aaron Rogers</P>


You're completely losing context.* The context is Eli's over all play.* That's the basic unit we're assessing here.* You can't choose to ignore a piece from it.*</P>


That's like saying Rivers did not have an off year this year because his # of int he threw were clearly an anomally.**</P>


Fact is fact, anomally or not, reason or not, Rivers had an off year.*</P>

Rivers had an off year. Eli had an off statistic. There's a difference.

How can you say we're assessing his overral play and make such a baseless comparison?

2010 Eli posted career highs in Completions, Completion percentage (Highter than this year) and TDs (Higher than this year)

He also posted his second highest career yardage numbers 2010.

All of these numbers are very comparable to his 2009 btw. ( As season which Lawl says Eli played well.)

No one can deny the INTS in 2010 but there are other stats beside INT numbers especially if as you say, the context is "Overall play"

So again We're talking about a Player who last year you would not say he played elite football but in 2011 the only stat he really improved in drastically was the INT numbers.

Conclusions: I think dropping the INT number isn't all that impressive. Its just my opinion but He knocked 9 INts off that number this year which is coinincidentally the number of tips that went for INTS in 2010.

Maybe I miss read you. If you're saying that Had Eli thrown 9 less interceptions you would think him an Elite QB well then I wouldn't totally agree as taking stats so literalistically is not my thang. But I wouldn't split hairs.

But as I understand it, you and your ilk mean to say that Eli is completely new player this year and to me simply cutting out a few interceptions or getting a few lucky bounces indicates no such change.

sinn fein
01-12-2012, 12:51 PM
best in the business. seriously?some people just get too carried away.

sinn fein
01-12-2012, 12:58 PM
seriously?SOME PEOPLE JUST GET CARRIED AWAY.

gumby742
01-12-2012, 01:00 PM
Rivers had an off year. Eli had an off statistic. There's a difference. How can you say we're assessing his overral play and make such a baseless comparison? 2010 Eli posted career highs in Completions, Completion percentage (Highter than this year) and TDs He also posted his second highest career yardage numbers 2010. All of these numbers are very comparable to his 2009 btw. ( As season which Lawl says Eli played well.) No one can deny the INTS in 2010 but there are other stats beside INT numbers especially if as you say, the context is "Overall play" So again We're talking about a Player who last year you would not say he played elite football but in 2011 the only stat he really improved in drastically was the INT numbers. Conclusions: I think dropping the INT number isn't all that impressive. Its just my opinion but He knocked 9 INts off that number this year which is coinincidentally the number of tips that went for INTS in 2010. Maybe I miss read you. If you're saying that Had Eli thrown 9 less interceptions you would think him an Elite QB well then I wouldn't totally agree as taking stats so literalistically is not my thang. But I wouldn't split hairs. But as I understand it, you and your ilk mean to say that Eli is completely new player this year and to me simply cutting out a few interceptions or getting a few lucky bounces indicates no such change.</P>


Look at Rivers stats year by year and tell me that the only major difference between this year and years past is not his INTs. His INTs is the only difference. In 2007, he passed only 460 times and still threw 15 INTs. Definitely an abberation. So, but your reasoning Rivers has been nothing but great the last 5 years right? No fall off here and there?</P>


Yes overall play. Dropping the INT number isn't impressive? Holy cow. His tipped INTs were bad passes also. He deserves as much blame as the WRs who should have caught them.</P>


And I gave you my reasons why I think Eli an elite year this year. It goes beyond performance and his INTs, but his presence, command in the pocket, decision making, him carrying us all year, everything. There are only a small handful of you that think Eli is NOT different year and that was already top 5 since 2007. Eli was great in 2009 but IMO, there difference between 2009 and this is his accuracy, decision making, and overall confidence. It's no mistake that his yards per attempt has jumped when he now hits his WRs in stride and between the numbers.</P>


So in short, no. It's not just about the INTs. It's clear as night and day he's a different QB.</P>

burier
01-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Rivers had an off year. Eli had an off statistic. There's a difference. How can you say we're assessing his overral play and make such a baseless comparison? 2010 Eli posted career highs in Completions, Completion percentage (Highter than this year) and TDs He also posted his second highest career yardage numbers 2010. All of these numbers are very comparable to his 2009 btw. ( As season which Lawl says Eli played well.) No one can deny the INTS in 2010 but there are other stats beside INT numbers especially if as you say, the context is "Overall play" So again We're talking about a Player who last year you would not say he played elite football but in 2011 the only stat he really improved in drastically was the INT numbers. Conclusions: I think dropping the INT number isn't all that impressive. Its just my opinion but He knocked 9 INts off that number this year which is coinincidentally the number of tips that went for INTS in 2010. Maybe I miss read you. If you're saying that Had Eli thrown 9 less interceptions you would think him an Elite QB well then I wouldn't totally agree as taking stats so literalistically is not my thang. But I wouldn't split hairs. But as I understand it, you and your ilk mean to say that Eli is completely new player this year and to me simply cutting out a few interceptions or getting a few lucky bounces indicates no such change.</P>


Look at Rivers stats year by year and tell me that the only major difference between this year and years past is not his INTs.* His INTs is the only difference.* In 2007, he passed only 460 times and still threw 15 INTs.* Definitely an abberation.* So, but your reasoning Rivers has been nothing but great the last 5 years right?* No fall off here and there?</P>


Yes overall play.* Dropping the INT number isn't impressive?* Holy cow.* His tipped INTs were bad passes also.* He deserves as much blame as the WRs who should have caught them.</P>


And I gave you my reasons why I think Eli an elite year this year.* It goes beyond performance and his INTs, but his presence, command in the pocket, decision making, him carrying us all* year, everything.* There are only a small handful of you that think Eli is NOT different* year and that was already top 5 since 2007.* Eli was great in 2009 but IMO, there difference between 2009 and this is his accuracy, decision making, and overall confidence.* It's no mistake that his yards per attempt has jumped when he now hits his WRs in stride and between the numbers.</P>


So in short, no.* It's not just about the INTs.* It's clear as night and day he's a different QB.</P>

My appologies as I'm not up on Rivers. I mistakenly allowed NFL net and ESPN to inform me that Rivers was having a down year. A Quick glance at his stats this year show that his INTS are way up and the rest of his stats are basically in line with what he's done... Fine yellow journalism strikes again. Rivers previous career high in INTS is 15. His career average is now just under 13. So next year we're supposed to slob all over him if he throws only 13 ints? That's what his average is!! He's going to throw something close to that most years!!

Just like Eli's average is 17...HES GOING TO THROW CLOSE TO THAT MOST YEARS!!!

Say it with me....AVER__AGE!!

One year Rivers threw 9 INTs

One year Eli Threw 10 ints. Those were out of the ordinary as well. I don't know what else to say on that point. I'm glad Eli cut the INTS down but since I don't hate Eli I kinda assumed that he'd do that this year. Only a total troll would bet on Eli matching his 25 INTs from last year. By your logic you should have been impressed before the 2011 season even started based purely on the overwhelming probabiliy that the INT number would come down significantly.

And then as these conversations invevitably go...We move away from fact and move into your opinion which you try to validate by stating that others share your opinion. Fine.

Good for you. The so called majority think Eli is leaps and bounds better this season based on nondescript aspects of his game like "presence, command in the pocket, DECSION MAKING (my personal favorite).

You see those things are subjective. You're welcome to your opinion. Just stop passing it off as fact.

My opinion is no better than yours but it just so happens that Aaron Rogers, And Kevin Gilbride agree with me.

So that makes 3 of us who don't think its as clear as night and day.

Edit: Also I think your mention of Eli carrying the team is hilarious. Tell me this. Since Eli's been the starter when have we ever boasted the 32nd ranked rushing offense?

Eli's never had to carry the team week in and week out...so you're holding that against him???

What Eli has done is carried us in certain spots when he's had too.

Comeback victories, Game winning drives shootouts!...None of thise things are new this Year, Eli's done it througout. He's had to do it more frequently this year but he's shown time and time again that he's capable.

GMen869007
01-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Remember what our record was vs playoff teams in '07? It was 0-4, and we went on to face, and defeat those teams in the playoffs.

miked1958
01-12-2012, 02:19 PM
Remember what our record was vs playoff teams in '07? It was 0-4, and we went on to face, and defeat those teams in the playoffs.
</P>


yep.. and this year it was 1-3... beating the Pats this season otherwise it would have been 0-4 like in 07. Lost to Dallas twice, GB and NE in 07</P>


Lost to GB, NO, SF and beat NE..</P>


In 07 we played a First Round Playoff game against a team we didnt play in the Regular Season, TB</P>


Like in 07 we played a First Round Playoff game against a team we didnt play this Season, Falcons</P>


In 07 in the Divisional Round we played the Number 1 seed Dallas Cowboys and no one gave us a chance. We went in there and did what had to be done</P>


This season in the Divisional round we will play the Number 1 seed GB Packers. Not many people think we can win this game. What else is new</P>


In 07 we went to GB for the NFC CG to play a team that blasted us in the Regular Season. We won in OT</P>


This season if we can Upset the Packers there is a good Chance we will Travel to the Dome to play a team that BLASTED us in the Regular Season. We could beat them in OT...LOL</P>


IN 07 We played the unbeaten Pats and the ****y Tom Brady. This season if we make the SB there is a good chance we will play the Pats again. And guess what. Tom is still ****y.</P>

miked1958
01-12-2012, 02:19 PM
ALL IN

miked1958
01-12-2012, 02:23 PM
Also like i said to start off this Thread.. Eli will get the chance to face poss all 3 qbs ahead of him. I realize these guys have been doing it alot longer and cant take one year out of context. but he has a chance on the Big Stage to out perform them all.</P>


I only brought this up because it has been debated like crazy on all the TV and radio talk shows. about how Eli can put a REAL STAMP on his legacy if he can come through this season. </P>

miked1958
01-12-2012, 02:29 PM
Remember what our record was vs playoff teams in '07? It was 0-4, and we went on to face, and defeat those teams in the playoffs.
</P>


yep.. and this year it was 1-3... beating the Pats this season otherwise it would have been 0-4 like in 07. Lost to Dallas twice, GB and NE in 07</P>


Lost to GB, NO, SF and beat NE..</P>


In 07 we played a First Round Playoff game against a team we didnt play in the Regular Season, TB</P>


Like in 07 we played a First Round Playoff game against a team we didnt play this Season, Falcons</P>


In 07 in the Divisional Round we played the Number 1 seed Dallas Cowboys and no one gave us a chance. We went in there and did what had to be done</P>


This season in the Divisional round we will play the Number 1 seed GB Packers. Not many people think we can win this game. What else is new</P>


In 07 we went to GB for the NFC CG to play a team that blasted us in the Regular Season. We won in OT</P>


This season if we can Upset the Packers there is a good Chance we will Travel to the Dome to play a team that BLASTED us in the Regular Season. We could beat them in OT...LOL</P>


IN 07 We played the unbeaten Pats and the ****y Tom Brady. This season if we make the SB there is a good chance we will play the Pats again. And guess what. Tom is still ****y.</P>


</P>


Also to add to the info on the Patriots... They have won 8 games in a Rowsince we beat them on mostly Blowout wins. Prior to them losing to us they lost to the steelers but had 3 wins in a row prior to that, so you can say overall they havewon 11of13.They are kinda riding high again like they were in 07. If they win their 2 playoff games they could come into the SB on a 10game winning streak..(and 13of15). Not 19 like 07... BUT... we could make it bad for them again with a 1-10-1 Senario.......A loss to NY, 10 Wins Sandwiched in between another, LOSS TO NY...... lol.</P>

Itlan
01-12-2012, 05:51 PM
I can do every year from 07 on if you'd like. The only one that will be comparable will be 2009 and I thought he was amazing in 2009.Remove 12 of those interceptions from 2010 and provide me the updated stats. I'm not arguing, I'm just curious.</P>


*</P>


'10 to '11 stat comparison(w/ 12 less ints in '10)</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


23%*worsening in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>And from '09 to '10?

I'm just wondering, because I've gone through all of Eli's interceptions in 2010, and atleast 12 were tipped. Were they all perfect passes? Absolutely not, but I'd say atleast half SHOULD have been caught with LITTLE effort i.e. hitting target on the money or in stride.

As for the whole top QB argument, Eli is #5 to me right now, including Peyton. Simply how I see it personally.

Tuffy44
01-12-2012, 11:29 PM
How can Eli beat rodgers? I was under the impression that the other 45 players were invovled for both teams.

GMen869007
01-13-2012, 12:00 AM
Oops, I forgot that the Skins were in the playoffs in '07, lost to Seattle I think so our record was 1-5 vs playoff teams.

lawl
01-13-2012, 12:45 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affectingone's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


I'll grant you that some of the tipped balls were bad throws if you grant me that every quarterback throws a bad ball that gets tipped and they more often than not, or certainly more often than Eli experienced in 2010 hit the turf. But that's not really my point. the number 25 is an anomolly. Eli even in his first year as a starter didn't throw that many. Something that somone does once in 8 years does not speak to the total quality of the player. That's my point. And note that he had career numbers in all the positive stats aswell. Why is that written off and ignored? Food for thought. He might just be playing nice but this is what he said: "I dont know if it was Justin Tuck, or one of those guys said, You cant spell elite without the e-l-i, Rodgers said. I thought that was pretty intelligent there. But hes played great, for the majority of his career, especially the LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS hes been at the top of his game. Its fun to watch. He throws the ball efficiently, he has good feel in the pocket, hes a winner, hes consistent. Hes playing great, which makes it difficult for our defense. Offensively, youve got to expect them to play well and us to need to score some points. - Aaron Rogers</P>


He didnt have career numbers in '10 in yardage nor YPA. Just comp% and TDs. And career worsts in INTs.</P>

arrjay
01-13-2012, 01:08 AM
Eli still has his best years in front of him...

miked1958
01-13-2012, 01:09 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread

lawl
01-13-2012, 01:25 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>

burier
01-13-2012, 09:26 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


I'll grant you that some of the tipped balls were bad throws if you grant me that every quarterback throws a bad ball that gets tipped and they more often than not, or certainly more often than Eli experienced in 2010 hit the turf. But that's not really my point. the number 25 is an anomolly. Eli even in his first year as a starter didn't throw that many. Something that somone does once in 8 years does not speak to the total quality of the player. That's my point. And note that he had career numbers in all the positive stats aswell. Why is that written off and ignored? Food for thought. He might just be playing nice but this is what he said: "I dont know if it was Justin Tuck, or one of those guys said, You cant spell elite without the e-l-i, Rodgers said. I thought that was pretty intelligent there. But hes played great, for the majority of his career, especially the LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS hes been at the top of his game. Its fun to watch. He throws the ball efficiently, he has good feel in the pocket, hes a winner, hes consistent. Hes playing great, which makes it difficult for our defense. Offensively, youve got to expect them to play well and us to need to score some points. - Aaron Rogers</P>


He didnt have career numbers in '10 in yardage nor YPA. Just comp% and TDs. And career worsts in INTs.</P>

I'm starting to think you don't even buy what your selling at this point and I'm not gonna argue with you just for sake of arguing.

Just so you know Completion % TDS and INTS are the big boy stats when evaluating a QB.

YPA is way down the pecking order of stats to look at when evaluating a quarterbacks play. (Since it does not differenciate between distances the ball traveled in the air and YAC and it does not account for the style of offense)

Also as I've already stated in 2010 Eli didn't post a career high in Yards its was just his second highest total.

The stats don't suuggest a Quantum Leap in Eli's play. They just don't

miked1958
01-13-2012, 09:33 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>

gumby742
01-13-2012, 09:41 AM
Rivers had an off year. Eli had an off statistic. There's a difference. How can you say we're assessing his overral play and make such a baseless comparison? 2010 Eli posted career highs in Completions, Completion percentage (Highter than this year) and TDs He also posted his second highest career yardage numbers 2010. All of these numbers are very comparable to his 2009 btw. ( As season which Lawl says Eli played well.) No one can deny the INTS in 2010 but there are other stats beside INT numbers especially if as you say, the context is "Overall play" So again We're talking about a Player who last year you would not say he played elite football but in 2011 the only stat he really improved in drastically was the INT numbers. Conclusions: I think dropping the INT number isn't all that impressive. Its just my opinion but He knocked 9 INts off that number this year which is coinincidentally the number of tips that went for INTS in 2010. Maybe I miss read you. If you're saying that Had Eli thrown 9 less interceptions you would think him an Elite QB well then I wouldn't totally agree as taking stats so literalistically is not my thang. But I wouldn't split hairs. But as I understand it, you and your ilk mean to say that Eli is completely new player this year and to me simply cutting out a few interceptions or getting a few lucky bounces indicates no such change.</P>


Look at Rivers stats year by year and tell me that the only major difference between this year and years past is not his INTs. His INTs is the only difference. In 2007, he passed only 460 times and still threw 15 INTs. Definitely an abberation. So, but your reasoning Rivers has been nothing but great the last 5 years right? No fall off here and there?</P>


Yes overall play. Dropping the INT number isn't impressive? Holy cow. His tipped INTs were bad passes also. He deserves as much blame as the WRs who should have caught them.</P>


And I gave you my reasons why I think Eli an elite year this year. It goes beyond performance and his INTs, but his presence, command in the pocket, decision making, him carrying us all year, everything. There are only a small handful of you that think Eli is NOT different year and that was already top 5 since 2007. Eli was great in 2009 but IMO, there difference between 2009 and this is his accuracy, decision making, and overall confidence. It's no mistake that his yards per attempt has jumped when he now hits his WRs in stride and between the numbers.</P>


So in short, no. It's not just about the INTs. It's clear as night and day he's a different QB.</P>


My appologies as I'm not up on Rivers. I mistakenly allowed NFL net and ESPN to inform me that Rivers was having a down year. A Quick glance at his stats this year show that his INTS are way up and the rest of his stats are basically in line with what he's done... Fine yellow journalism strikes again. Rivers previous career high in INTS is 15. His career average is now just under 13. So next year we're supposed to slob all over him if he throws only 13 ints? That's what his average is!! He's going to throw something close to that most years!! Just like Eli's average is 17...HES GOING TO THROW CLOSE TO THAT MOST YEARS!!! Say it with me....AVER__AGE!! One year Rivers threw 9 INTs One year Eli Threw 10 ints. Those were out of the ordinary as well. I don't know what else to say on that point. I'm glad Eli cut the INTS down but since I don't hate Eli I kinda assumed that he'd do that this year. Only a total troll would bet on Eli matching his 25 INTs from last year. By your logic you should have been impressed before the 2011 season even started based purely on the overwhelming probabiliy that the INT number would come down significantly. And then as these conversations invevitably go...We move away from fact and move into your opinion which you try to validate by stating that others share your opinion. Fine. Good for you. The so called majority think Eli is leaps and bounds better this season based on nondescript aspects of his game like "presence, command in the pocket, DECSION MAKING (my personal favorite). You see those things are subjective. You're welcome to your opinion. Just stop passing it off as fact. My opinion is no better than yours but it just so happens that Aaron Rogers, And Kevin Gilbride agree with me. So that makes 3 of us who don't think its as clear as night and day. Edit: Also I think your mention of Eli carrying the team is hilarious. Tell me this. Since Eli's been the starter when have we ever boasted the 32nd ranked rushing offense? Eli's never had to carry the team week in and week out...so you're holding that against him??? What Eli has done is carried us in certain spots when he's had too. Comeback victories, Game winning drives shootouts!...None of thise things are new this Year, Eli's done it througout. He's had to do it more frequently this year but he's shown time and time again that he's capable.</P>


What on earth at you babbling about? Holy cow man slow down!</P>


Eli carrying our team is a good thing not a bad thing. I brought that up to give him props. What the heck is the matter with you?</P>


What's all this talk about average INTs and where are you going with it?</P>


You're making no sense.</P>


Ok then. You're part of small, small percentile that actually thinks Eli didn't improve significantly between this year and previous years. That pretty much means you're nuts. Unless of course, you think that you're Newton, and everyone elseare those crazy people who thought the earth was flat. But that sure as heck isn't the case - especially in yours.</P>


</P>

gumby742
01-13-2012, 09:42 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>

burier
01-13-2012, 09:46 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt.* So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>

Call up the falcons and ask if they'll trade us Ryan For Eli straight up.

gumby742
01-13-2012, 10:08 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


Call up the falcons and ask if they'll trade us Ryan For Eli straight up.</P>


a poster stated facts that were erroneous for their intent. All I did was correct him, but if you're going to get your panties in a bunch, go ahead. Don't burst a blood vessel.</P>


Yourself and a handful of others are way too sensitive.</P>

lawl
01-13-2012, 10:19 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affectingone's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


I'll grant you that some of the tipped balls were bad throws if you grant me that every quarterback throws a bad ball that gets tipped and they more often than not, or certainly more often than Eli experienced in 2010 hit the turf. But that's not really my point. the number 25 is an anomolly. Eli even in his first year as a starter didn't throw that many. Something that somone does once in 8 years does not speak to the total quality of the player. That's my point. And note that he had career numbers in all the positive stats aswell. Why is that written off and ignored? Food for thought. He might just be playing nice but this is what he said: "I dont know if it was Justin Tuck, or one of those guys said, You cant spell elite without the e-l-i, Rodgers said. I thought that was pretty intelligent there. But hes played great, for the majority of his career, especially the LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS hes been at the top of his game. Its fun to watch. He throws the ball efficiently, he has good feel in the pocket, hes a winner, hes consistent. Hes playing great, which makes it difficult for our defense. Offensively, youve got to expect them to play well and us to need to score some points. - Aaron Rogers</P>


He didnt have career numbers in '10 in yardage nor YPA. Just comp% and TDs. And career worsts in INTs.</P>


I'm starting to think you don't even buy what your selling at this point and I'm not gonna argue with you just for sake of arguing. Just so you know Completion % TDS and INTS are the big boy stats when evaluating a QB. YPA is way down the pecking order of stats to look at when evaluating a quarterbacks play. (Since it does not differenciate between distances the ball traveled in the air and YAC and it does not account for the style of offense) Also as I've already stated in 2010 Eli didn't post a career high in Yards its was just his second highest total. The stats don't suuggest a Quantum Leap in Eli's play. They just don't</P>


Parcells mentioned YPA as the stat that means the most to him when it comes to QBs which is why I include it.</P>


He didnt have a career high in yardage in '10(which is a big boy stat)</P>


He had a career high in TDs and a career worst in interceptions in '10. </P>


After the '10 season his career year, imo, was 2009.</P>


From 09 to '10-</P>


His yardage declined a miniscule %age likewise his comp% increased a miniscule percentage. Those two cancel each other out</P>


On the other hand his TDs increased by 15% while his INTs worsened by 79%.. 79%!!!</P>


Just because Eli's average INTs per year is 17 doesnt mean thats a good thing, just because 25 INTs is an anomaly doesn't mean it didnt happen. Your conjecture lacks any real substance.</P>


His YPA was also higher in 09 as well as passer rating.</P>


To think that '10 was a career year for Eli is absolutely false.</P>

speedman
01-13-2012, 10:27 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.</P>


Nah, this guy's crazier than you. He thinks Eli is the best in the league (and has been for a couple years)</P>


You are the crazy one if you cant at least understand why some people rate Eli so high. It would be easier to argue Eli being the best in the league, then it would be to argue he isnt top 8 in the league... Your assesment is just as off as his is.</P>


I have never said how high up the totem pole I think Eli is.</P>


Never. </P>Time to take off your skirt and tell us where you rate him.

miked1958
01-13-2012, 10:29 AM
How can Eli beat rodgers? I was under the impression that the other 45 players were invovled for both teams.</P>


this guy is a troll. lol</P>

miked1958
01-13-2012, 10:31 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>

lawl
01-13-2012, 10:35 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affectingone's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.</P>


Nah, this guy's crazier than you. He thinks Eli is the best in the league (and has been for a couple years)</P>


You are the crazy one if you cant at least understand why some people rate Eli so high. It would be easier to argue Eli being the best in the league, then it would be to argue he isnt top 8 in the league... Your assesment is just as off as his is.</P>


I have never said how high up the totem pole I think Eli is.</P>


Never. </P>


Time to take off your skirt and tell us where you rate him.</P>


This year I only have him below Rodgers, Brees and Brady. </P>


Stafford is close, but Eli's the vet so I'll give it to him, but Stafford did have a heck of a year.</P>


In years past? Somewhere in the 7 range, with guys like Ben, Rivers, sometimes Kurt Warner(before he retired) and Peyton having played better than him </P>

lawl
01-13-2012, 10:39 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>


</P>


Ryan and Flacco both just finished their 4th season. This statline was based off of an 8 year progression. So assuming those two guys don't get better at all(which is a dumb assumption but works in favor of Eli) they will still have outproduced Eli's first 8 year production by their 8th year in the league. </P>


What this shows is that Eli had a slow start to his career and that the league is getting torn up in the passing game nowadays.</P>

miked1958
01-13-2012, 10:44 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>


</P>


Having trouble finding that thread. cant remember the title. anyone know..</P>

miked1958
01-13-2012, 10:49 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>


</P>


Having trouble finding that thread. cant remember the title. anyone know..</P>


</P>


found it. here is the what the OP in that Thread posted...</P>


"</P>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>One of my obsessive followers requested I take time out of my busy day to make this list....

Here is the list of QB stats through their first 8 years. I pulled the QB's who I consider to be the best in the past 40 years.


Lets start with our boy.... Eli Manning.

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDS 129 INTS

Brady 26,364 yards 197 TDS 86 INTS

Peyton 33,239 yards 244 TDS 130 INTS

Brees 26,258 yards 168 TDS 99 INTS

Favre 26,803 yards 213 TDS 118 INTS

Elway 24,721 yards 135 TDS 128 INTS

Montana 21,498 yards 141 TDS 76 INTS

Marino 31,414 yards 241 TDS 136 INTS

Moon 27,679 yards 157 TDS 133 INTS

Troy 22,733 yards 110 TDS 98 INTS

Kelly 26,413 yards 179 TDS 126 INTS

Fouts 19,454 yards 112 TDS 125 INTS

Big Ben 26,579 yards 165 TDS 100 INTS

Rivers 24,285 yards 163 TDS 78 INTS

Steve Young - Literally did nothing his first 7 years, one bad season as the full time starter in Tampa. His whole career were years 8-14.


My take after analyzing the numbers. Keep in mind I analyzed a lot more than TDS, yards and INTS.

3 QBS in history have thrown for more yards than Eli through 8 seasons. Peyton, Marino, and Moon. Moon only by 100 yards and he started the whole season his rookie year. Peyton also started the whole season his rookie year. Also keep in mind that all 3 of these guys who threw for more yards, ALSO threw for more INTS during their first 8 years than Eli did. (even with Elis 25 last year, and even with all the nonsense talk that he throws way too many ints)

Just 4 QBS in history have thrown for more TDs in their first 8 years than Eli has. Peyton, Brady, Favre, and Marino. Brady only did so because he threw for 50 TDs in his 8th season.


Other notes from this list.... Alot of these QB's came into their own (stats wise) during season 8.


Most of these QBs didnt win their first super bowl until after year 8, that is if they ever won one at all.


When all is said and done, Eli will not only be at the top of every Giants passing record there is, but he will also be at the top or very close to the top of every major passing record in NFL history.


I would love to hear the haters response to this, because I have plenty of ammo left for the dumb responses I am about to hear. Especially after breaking down the stats and seeing what years these QB's really shined. There is a lot of talk about its a new NFL, but a lot of these QB's were putting up monster (madden like) numbers a long time ago... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>
</DIV></FONT>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>Looking at his list Eli is on track to be one ofthe best</FONT>

</DIV></FONT>

miked1958
01-13-2012, 10:53 AM
As u can see there is alot of big names on that list that Eli has been better then though first 8yrs. INTs up with alot of them or little above but overall he is right there with the best

gumby742
01-13-2012, 10:53 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>


</P>


Having trouble finding that thread. cant remember the title. anyone know..</P>


</P>


found it. here is the what the OP in that Thread posted...</P>


"</P>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>One of my obsessive followers requested I take time out of my busy day to make this list....

Here is the list of QB stats through their first 8 years. I pulled the QB's who I consider to be the best in the past 40 years.


Lets start with our boy.... Eli Manning.

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDS 129 INTS

Brady 26,364 yards 197 TDS 86 INTS

Peyton 33,239 yards 244 TDS 130 INTS

Brees 26,258 yards 168 TDS 99 INTS

Favre 26,803 yards 213 TDS 118 INTS

Elway 24,721 yards 135 TDS 128 INTS

Montana 21,498 yards 141 TDS 76 INTS

Marino 31,414 yards 241 TDS 136 INTS

Moon 27,679 yards 157 TDS 133 INTS

Troy 22,733 yards 110 TDS 98 INTS

Kelly 26,413 yards 179 TDS 126 INTS

Fouts 19,454 yards 112 TDS 125 INTS

Big Ben 26,579 yards 165 TDS 100 INTS

Rivers 24,285 yards 163 TDS 78 INTS

Steve Young - Literally did nothing his first 7 years, one bad season as the full time starter in Tampa. His whole career were years 8-14.


My take after analyzing the numbers. Keep in mind I analyzed a lot more than TDS, yards and INTS.

3 QBS in history have thrown for more yards than Eli through 8 seasons. Peyton, Marino, and Moon. Moon only by 100 yards and he started the whole season his rookie year. Peyton also started the whole season his rookie year. Also keep in mind that all 3 of these guys who threw for more yards, ALSO threw for more INTS during their first 8 years than Eli did. (even with Elis 25 last year, and even with all the nonsense talk that he throws way too many ints)

Just 4 QBS in history have thrown for more TDs in their first 8 years than Eli has. Peyton, Brady, Favre, and Marino. Brady only did so because he threw for 50 TDs in his 8th season.


Other notes from this list.... Alot of these QB's came into their own (stats wise) during season 8.


Most of these QBs didnt win their first super bowl until after year 8, that is if they ever won one at all.


When all is said and done, Eli will not only be at the top of every Giants passing record there is, but he will also be at the top or very close to the top of every major passing record in NFL history.


I would love to hear the haters response to this, because I have plenty of ammo left for the dumb responses I am about to hear. Especially after breaking down the stats and seeing what years these QB's really shined. There is a lot of talk about its a new NFL, but a lot of these QB's were putting up monster (madden like) numbers a long time ago... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>
</DIV></FONT>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>Looking at his list Eli is on track to be one ofthe best</FONT>

</DIV>


</FONT></P>


That post is so flawed it's not even funny. Here's my response:</P>


Comparing stats from different eras is like applies and oranges. </P>


Also, you need to normalize all of those stats per attempt. Saying player A passed for more yards then player B holds no water if player A passed the ball twice as much.</P>


Edit: AND if those old timers were already putting up monster numbers, that just goes to show how good they were.</P>


Herey ou go:</P>


<FONT color=#020f42>http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html</FONT> (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html)</P>


Edit: Maybe you'll be smart enough to know what normalized per attempt means and why it's relevant. NoHuddle certainly didn't.</P>

miked1958
01-13-2012, 10:55 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>


</P>


Having trouble finding that thread. cant remember the title. anyone know..</P>


</P>


found it. here is the what the OP in that Thread posted...</P>


"</P>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>One of my obsessive followers requested I take time out of my busy day to make this list....

Here is the list of QB stats through their first 8 years. I pulled the QB's who I consider to be the best in the past 40 years.


Lets start with our boy.... Eli Manning.

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDS 129 INTS

Brady 26,364 yards 197 TDS 86 INTS

Peyton 33,239 yards 244 TDS 130 INTS

Brees 26,258 yards 168 TDS 99 INTS

Favre 26,803 yards 213 TDS 118 INTS

Elway 24,721 yards 135 TDS 128 INTS

Montana 21,498 yards 141 TDS 76 INTS

Marino 31,414 yards 241 TDS 136 INTS

Moon 27,679 yards 157 TDS 133 INTS

Troy 22,733 yards 110 TDS 98 INTS

Kelly 26,413 yards 179 TDS 126 INTS

Fouts 19,454 yards 112 TDS 125 INTS

Big Ben 26,579 yards 165 TDS 100 INTS

Rivers 24,285 yards 163 TDS 78 INTS

Steve Young - Literally did nothing his first 7 years, one bad season as the full time starter in Tampa. His whole career were years 8-14.


My take after analyzing the numbers. Keep in mind I analyzed a lot more than TDS, yards and INTS.

3 QBS in history have thrown for more yards than Eli through 8 seasons. Peyton, Marino, and Moon. Moon only by 100 yards and he started the whole season his rookie year. Peyton also started the whole season his rookie year. Also keep in mind that all 3 of these guys who threw for more yards, ALSO threw for more INTS during their first 8 years than Eli did. (even with Elis 25 last year, and even with all the nonsense talk that he throws way too many ints)

Just 4 QBS in history have thrown for more TDs in their first 8 years than Eli has. Peyton, Brady, Favre, and Marino. Brady only did so because he threw for 50 TDs in his 8th season.


Other notes from this list.... Alot of these QB's came into their own (stats wise) during season 8.


Most of these QBs didnt win their first super bowl until after year 8, that is if they ever won one at all.


When all is said and done, Eli will not only be at the top of every Giants passing record there is, but he will also be at the top or very close to the top of every major passing record in NFL history.


I would love to hear the haters response to this, because I have plenty of ammo left for the dumb responses I am about to hear. Especially after breaking down the stats and seeing what years these QB's really shined. There is a lot of talk about its a new NFL, but a lot of these QB's were putting up monster (madden like) numbers a long time ago... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>
</DIV></FONT>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>Looking at his list Eli is on track to be one ofthe best</FONT>

</DIV>


</FONT></P>


That post is so flawed it's not even funny. Here's my response:</P>


Comparing stats from different eras is like applies and oranges. </P>


Also, you need to normalize all of those stats per attempt. Saying player A passed for more yards then player B holds no water if player A passed the ball twice as much.</P>


Edit: AND if those old timers were already putting up monster numbers, that just goes to show how good they were.</P>


Herey ou go:</P>


<FONT color=#020f42>http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html</FONT> (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html)</P>


</P>


Well anyway that thread is over 8 pages long so i think alot of what is being said is being duped in both posts. </P>


however i will give the credit to the original poster of that thread... I just brought the info over here. </P>


the credit goes to...................... <FONT color=#667766>NoHuddle10</FONT> (/members/NoHuddle10.aspx) </P>

speedman
01-13-2012, 11:00 AM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


You do realize this is a New York Giants message board (the football team) and NOT the San Fran Giants? That could be the stem of this issue.</P>


Nah, this guy's crazier than you. He thinks Eli is the best in the league (and has been for a couple years)</P>


You are the crazy one if you cant at least understand why some people rate Eli so high. It would be easier to argue Eli being the best in the league, then it would be to argue he isnt top 8 in the league... Your assesment is just as off as his is.</P>


I have never said how high up the totem pole I think Eli is.</P>


Never. </P>


Time to take off your skirt and tell us where you rate him.</P>


This year I only have him below Rodgers, Brees and Brady. </P>


Stafford is close, but Eli's the vet so I'll give it to him, but Stafford did have a heck of a year.</P>


In years past? Somewhere in the 7 range, with guys like Ben, Rivers, sometimes Kurt Warner(before he retired) and Peyton having played better than him </P>4th this year, probably 5th if Peyton was playing. I always had him ahead of Ben & Rivers though. If he improves next year as he has every year I thik he has a shot to pass Brady next year. As for Stafford need to see if he can stay on the field again for a full season.

lawl
01-13-2012, 11:00 AM
As u can see there is alot of big names on that list that Eli has been better then though first 8yrs. INTs up with alot of them or little above but overall he is right there with the best</P>


Its first 8 years regardless of when you actually started playing. Eli started playing midway through his rookie year. Rivers didn't start playing until his 3rd year in the league. I'm sure it works this way for others on the list as well. Even with that said Rivers numbers are still close to Eli's and Eli had an extra year and a half of playtime.</P>


Other names?</P>


Cam Newton, Flacco and Ryan are all on pace to beat Eli's Numbers.</P>


Mark Sanchez is on pace for more TDs and Yards than Montana(among others)</P>


In Tony Romo's first 6 years as a starter(he didn't start 19games in this span either) has more TDs than Montana did in his first 8 years in the league.</P>


The point is, all theseguys in the league are going to continue to outproduce the old timers, its just how the league is now.</P>


</P>

gumby742
01-13-2012, 11:00 AM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt. So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>


</P>


Having trouble finding that thread. cant remember the title. anyone know..</P>


</P>


found it. here is the what the OP in that Thread posted...</P>


"</P>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>One of my obsessive followers requested I take time out of my busy day to make this list....

Here is the list of QB stats through their first 8 years. I pulled the QB's who I consider to be the best in the past 40 years.


Lets start with our boy.... Eli Manning.

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDS 129 INTS

Brady 26,364 yards 197 TDS 86 INTS

Peyton 33,239 yards 244 TDS 130 INTS

Brees 26,258 yards 168 TDS 99 INTS

Favre 26,803 yards 213 TDS 118 INTS

Elway 24,721 yards 135 TDS 128 INTS

Montana 21,498 yards 141 TDS 76 INTS

Marino 31,414 yards 241 TDS 136 INTS

Moon 27,679 yards 157 TDS 133 INTS

Troy 22,733 yards 110 TDS 98 INTS

Kelly 26,413 yards 179 TDS 126 INTS

Fouts 19,454 yards 112 TDS 125 INTS

Big Ben 26,579 yards 165 TDS 100 INTS

Rivers 24,285 yards 163 TDS 78 INTS

Steve Young - Literally did nothing his first 7 years, one bad season as the full time starter in Tampa. His whole career were years 8-14.


My take after analyzing the numbers. Keep in mind I analyzed a lot more than TDS, yards and INTS.

3 QBS in history have thrown for more yards than Eli through 8 seasons. Peyton, Marino, and Moon. Moon only by 100 yards and he started the whole season his rookie year. Peyton also started the whole season his rookie year. Also keep in mind that all 3 of these guys who threw for more yards, ALSO threw for more INTS during their first 8 years than Eli did. (even with Elis 25 last year, and even with all the nonsense talk that he throws way too many ints)

Just 4 QBS in history have thrown for more TDs in their first 8 years than Eli has. Peyton, Brady, Favre, and Marino. Brady only did so because he threw for 50 TDs in his 8th season.


Other notes from this list.... Alot of these QB's came into their own (stats wise) during season 8.


Most of these QBs didnt win their first super bowl until after year 8, that is if they ever won one at all.


When all is said and done, Eli will not only be at the top of every Giants passing record there is, but he will also be at the top or very close to the top of every major passing record in NFL history.


I would love to hear the haters response to this, because I have plenty of ammo left for the dumb responses I am about to hear. Especially after breaking down the stats and seeing what years these QB's really shined. There is a lot of talk about its a new NFL, but a lot of these QB's were putting up monster (madden like) numbers a long time ago... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>
</DIV></FONT>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>Looking at his list Eli is on track to be one ofthe best</FONT>

</DIV>


</FONT></P>


That post is so flawed it's not even funny. Here's my response:</P>


Comparing stats from different eras is like applies and oranges. </P>


Also, you need to normalize all of those stats per attempt. Saying player A passed for more yards then player B holds no water if player A passed the ball twice as much.</P>


Edit: AND if those old timers were already putting up monster numbers, that just goes to show how good they were.</P>


Herey ou go:</P>


<FONT color=#020f42>http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html</FONT> (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html)</P>


</P>


Well anyway that thread is over 8 pages long so i think alot of what is being said is being duped in both posts. </P>


however i will give the credit to the original poster of that thread... I just brought the info over here. </P>


the credit goes to...................... <FONT color=#667766>NoHuddle10</FONT> (/members/NoHuddle10.aspx) </P>


</P>


Do you at least understand why his post is so flawed?</P>

GMENAGAIN
01-13-2012, 12:06 PM
I agree that it is almost impossible to compare stats from different eras.</P>


For example, Roger Staubach had 6 career 300+ yard passing games, Terry Bradshaw had 7. Tony Romo already has 31. </P>

burier
01-13-2012, 12:15 PM
'10 to '11 stat comparison</P>


3% reduction in comp% from '10 to '11</P>


23% increase in yardage from '10 to '11</P>


14% increase in YPA from '10 to '11</P>


6% decrease in TDs from '10 to '11</P>


36% improvement in INTs from '10 to '11</P>


9% increase in passer rating.</P>


*</P>


How exactly do the stats go in your favor?</P>


Of all the major statlines, only 2 worsened and they were by the two smallest margins.</P>


Its called critical thinking. I never said Eli isn't playing better...just not drastically better. Certinaly not by a degree that takes one from mediocre to Elite. you see Completion percentage is down and so are Td. The stats that are drastically improved are to do with Either yardage or interceptions. But the interceptionswere out of this world High. If ELi could put up 25 interceptions again this year that would be impressive. 25 is more than 08 and 09 combined. (Career average is around 17 per year) The Yardage has to be inflated because our defense is significantly worse and our runnging game is significantly worse. (You'll notice his attempts are way up this year aswell) So again my position is that Eli has improved this year at about the rate he has improved every year. And the above stats when all information is considered support that position.</P>


He didn't improve from '09 to '10. Eli was amazing in 2009, its ashame he hurt his foot, that really affected his play for a 4 game stretch or so.</P>


Now from '10 to '11: More attempts typically drive a players YPA down as well as comp%. On the other hand his TDs and INTs should have gone up. So, in other words Eli overcame the norm in Ints and YPA, his comp% did what it was supposed to and his TD were the only thing that didnt do what it was supposed to. You want to say his yardage is up because of a poor rungame? Well our offensive yardage production is up by 30 yards a game when compared to 2008. The interceptions awee out of this world high. Yea, ok? That's a bad thing. You can't just discount it from ever happening. It did in fact happen.</P>


So an injured foot is a legit excuse for a drop in play but tipped balls arent an excuse for increase in INT numbers? Im not trying to pretend the INTS didn't happen but I also recongize that alot of them were fluky And since we're discussing the "Player" and not individual circumstances I think its fair to no that 25 INTs indeed out of character for Eli. So many people have told me that The difference between Eli and say Brady is that when Brady has a bad game its considered an abberation. Fine. But I'm gonna look at those 25 picks the same way. <FONT size=4>You can't honestly believe that because Eli's attempts went up his INTS should go up when in 10' they so high</FONT>. Again. Its about being honest about the player. Trying to hold a one off scenario against him shows that there is a bias there. Props to Eli for keeping his completion percentage and YPA up despite the inrcrease in attempts but again...I think that speaks to his verteran savy and his natural progression as a player one year to te next Vs a drastic transformation. Also YPA was helped a bit by Victor Cruz who seems to want to take every pass he catches to the house.</P>


Virtually every one of the tipped passes was a bad throw. Every team experiences turnovers from tipped balls. Garrard had 9 that same year, but I guess he had an amazing season too and is still improving. </P>


Injuries affecting*one's play is out of his control. Throwing the ball in a better spot so it has a smaller chance of being tipped can be controlled and has been this season.</P>


As for the bolded sentence....More attempts, means more chances for interceptions, very simple. He had 50 more attempts this year and 9 less interceptions. That is extremely revealing. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year. Figure it out.</P>


I'll grant you that some of the tipped balls were bad throws if you grant me that every quarterback throws a bad ball that gets tipped and they more often than not, or certainly more often than Eli experienced in 2010 hit the turf. But that's not really my point. the number 25 is an anomolly. Eli even in his first year as a starter didn't throw that many. Something that somone does once in 8 years does not speak to the total quality of the player. That's my point. And note that he had career numbers in all the positive stats aswell. Why is that written off and ignored? Food for thought. He might just be playing nice but this is what he said: "I dont know if it was Justin Tuck, or one of those guys said, You cant spell elite without the e-l-i, Rodgers said. I thought that was pretty intelligent there. But hes played great, for the majority of his career, especially the LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS hes been at the top of his game. Its fun to watch. He throws the ball efficiently, he has good feel in the pocket, hes a winner, hes consistent. Hes playing great, which makes it difficult for our defense. Offensively, youve got to expect them to play well and us to need to score some points. - Aaron Rogers</P>


He didnt have career numbers in '10 in yardage nor YPA. Just comp% and TDs. And career worsts in INTs.</P>


I'm starting to think you don't even buy what your selling at this point and I'm not gonna argue with you just for sake of arguing. Just so you know Completion % TDS and INTS are the big boy stats when evaluating a QB. YPA is way down the pecking order of stats to look at when evaluating a quarterbacks play. (Since it does not differenciate between distances the ball traveled in the air and YAC and it does not account for the style of offense) Also as I've already stated in 2010 Eli didn't post a career high in Yards its was just his second highest total. The stats don't suuggest a Quantum Leap in Eli's play. They just don't</P>


Parcells mentioned YPA as the stat that means the most to him when it comes to QBs which is why I include it.</P>


He didnt have a career high in yardage in '10(which is a big boy stat)</P>


He had a career high in TDs and a career worst in interceptions in '10. </P>


After the '10 season his career year, imo, was 2009.</P>


From 09 to '10-</P>


His yardage declined a miniscule %age likewise his comp% increased a miniscule percentage. Those two cancel each other out</P>


On the other hand his TDs increased by 15% while his INTs worsened by 79%.. 79%!!!</P>


Just because Eli's average INTs per year is 17 doesnt mean thats a good thing, just because 25 INTs is an anomaly doesn't mean it didnt happen. Your conjecture lacks any real substance.</P>


His YPA was also higher in 09 as well as passer rating.</P>


To think that '10 was a career year for Eli is absolutely false.</P>

To the contrary. In the stats I pointed out it WAS a career year. There's no way to get around that. I didn't say it was overall. I specified the area's where he put up career numbers. And I thought that his yardage in 2010 was worth mentioning since he was just a few yards shy of his career high.


And I still haven't heard you reconcile how you claim that Eli has made a quantum leap by throwing his career average in INTS.

You see all this splitting hairs on the stats is to my point. YOU'RE the one sayings he's MUCH better this year, yet you're reduced to pointing out YPA and slight differencials in the numbers.

There's just nothing to back up your argument short of taking Gumby's way out and saying that Eli's decision making is better.

lawl
01-13-2012, 03:45 PM
Parcells mentioned YPA as the stat that means the most to him when it comes to QBs which is why I include it.</P>


He didnt have a career high in yardage in '10(which is a big boy stat)</P>


He had a career high in TDs and a career worst in interceptions in '10. </P>


After the '10 season his career year, imo, was 2009.</P>


From 09 to '10-</P>


His yardage declined a miniscule %age likewise his comp% increased a miniscule percentage. Those two cancel each other out</P>


On the other hand his TDs increased by 15% while his INTs worsened by 79%.. 79%!!!</P>


Just because Eli's average INTs per year is 17 doesnt mean thats a good thing, just because 25 INTs is an anomaly doesn't mean it didnt happen. Your conjecture lacks any real substance.</P>


His YPA was also higher in 09 as well as passer rating.</P>


To think that '10 was a career year for Eli is absolutely false.</P>


To the contrary. In the stats I pointed out it WAS a career year. There's no way to get around that. I didn't say it was overall. I specified the area's where he put up career numbers. And I thought that his yardage in 2010 was worth mentioning since he was just a few yards shy of his career high. And I still haven't heard you reconcile how you claim that Eli has made a quantum leap by throwing his career average in INTS. You see all this splitting hairs on the stats is to my point. YOU'RE the one sayings he's MUCH better this year, yet you're reduced to pointing out YPA and slight differencials in the numbers. There's just nothing to back up your argument short of taking Gumby's way out and saying that Eli's decision making is better.</P>


'10 was not a career year for Eli. It was not his best year. Period. I didn't point out slight differentials in numbers I pointed out a 79% change in numbers. Since when is 79% a slight change? </P>


Eli has made a quantum leap because he has thrown the ball 66 more times this season(thats about two games worth of attempts) than his career average yet has less INTs than his career average. That is saying ALOT. </P>


As for decision making? It is absolutely much better. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year.</P>


Why is this so hard to understand?</P>


</P>

miked1958
01-13-2012, 05:01 PM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt.* So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>


</P>


Having trouble finding that thread. cant remember the title. anyone know..</P>


</P>


found it. here is the what the OP in that Thread posted...</P>


"</P>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>One of my obsessive followers requested I take time out of my busy day to make this list....

Here is the list of QB stats through their first 8 years. I pulled the QB's who I consider to be the best in the past 40 years.


Lets start with our boy.... Eli Manning.

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDS 129 INTS

Brady 26,364 yards 197 TDS 86 INTS

Peyton 33,239 yards 244 TDS 130 INTS

Brees 26,258 yards 168 TDS 99 INTS

Favre 26,803 yards 213 TDS 118 INTS

Elway 24,721 yards 135 TDS 128 INTS

Montana 21,498 yards 141 TDS 76 INTS

Marino 31,414 yards 241 TDS 136 INTS

Moon 27,679 yards 157 TDS 133 INTS

Troy 22,733 yards 110 TDS 98 INTS

Kelly 26,413 yards 179 TDS 126 INTS

Fouts 19,454 yards 112 TDS 125 INTS

Big Ben 26,579 yards 165 TDS 100 INTS

Rivers 24,285 yards 163 TDS 78 INTS

Steve Young - Literally did nothing his first 7 years, one bad season as the full time starter in Tampa. His whole career were years 8-14.


My take after analyzing the numbers. Keep in mind I analyzed a lot more than TDS, yards and INTS.

3 QBS in history have thrown for more yards than Eli through 8 seasons. Peyton, Marino, and Moon. Moon only by 100 yards and he started the whole season his rookie year. Peyton also started the whole season his rookie year. Also keep in mind that all 3 of these guys who threw for more yards, ALSO threw for more INTS during their first 8 years than Eli did. (even with Elis 25 last year, and even with all the nonsense talk that he throws way too many ints)

Just 4 QBS in history have thrown for more TDs in their first 8 years than Eli has. Peyton, Brady, Favre, and Marino. Brady only did so because he threw for 50 TDs in his 8th season.


Other notes from this list.... Alot of these QB's came into their own (stats wise) during season 8.


Most of these QBs didnt win their first super bowl until after year 8, that is if they ever won one at all.


When all is said and done, Eli will not only be at the top of every Giants passing record there is, but he will also be at the top or very close to the top of every major passing record in NFL history.


I would love to hear the haters response to this, because I have plenty of ammo left for the dumb responses I am about to hear. Especially after breaking down the stats and seeing what years these QB's really shined. There is a lot of talk about its a new NFL, but a lot of these QB's were putting up monster (madden like) numbers a long time ago... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>
*</DIV></FONT>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>Looking at his list Eli is on track to be one of*the best</FONT>

</DIV>


</FONT></P>


That post is so flawed it's not even funny.* Here's my response:</P>


Comparing stats from different eras is like applies and oranges.* </P>


Also, you need to normalize all of those stats per attempt.* Saying player A passed for more yards then player B holds no water if player A passed the ball twice as much.</P>


Edit: AND if those old timers were already putting up monster numbers, that just goes to show how good they were.</P>


Herey ou go:</P>


<FONT color=#020f42>http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html</FONT> (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html)</P>


</P>


Well anyway that thread is over 8 pages long so i think alot of what is being said is being duped in both posts. </P>


however i will give the credit to the original poster of that thread... I just brought the info over here. </P>


the credit goes to...................... <FONT color=#667766>NoHuddle10</FONT> (/members/NoHuddle10.aspx) </P>


</P>


Do you at least understand why his post is so flawed?</P>
Yes I do now, thanks for clearing it up.
With that said, I think Eli takes a huge step forward this sunday

burier
01-13-2012, 05:02 PM
Parcells mentioned YPA as the stat that means the most to him when it comes to QBs which is why I include it.</P>


He didnt have a career high in yardage in '10(which is a big boy stat)</P>


He had a career high in TDs and a career worst in interceptions in '10. </P>


After the '10 season his career year, imo, was 2009.</P>


From 09 to '10-</P>


His yardage declined a miniscule %age likewise his comp% increased a miniscule percentage. Those two cancel each other out</P>


On the other hand his TDs increased by 15% while his INTs worsened by 79%.. 79%!!!</P>


Just because Eli's average INTs per year is 17 doesnt mean thats a good thing, just because 25 INTs is an anomaly doesn't mean it didnt happen. Your conjecture lacks any real substance.</P>


His YPA was also higher in 09 as well as passer rating.</P>


To think that '10 was a career year for Eli is absolutely false.</P>


To the contrary. In the stats I pointed out it WAS a career year. There's no way to get around that. I didn't say it was overall. I specified the area's where he put up career numbers. And I thought that his yardage in 2010 was worth mentioning since he was just a few yards shy of his career high. And I still haven't heard you reconcile how you claim that Eli has made a quantum leap by throwing his career average in INTS. You see all this splitting hairs on the stats is to my point. YOU'RE the one sayings he's MUCH better this year, yet you're reduced to pointing out YPA and slight differencials in the numbers. There's just nothing to back up your argument short of taking Gumby's way out and saying that Eli's decision making is better.</P>


'10 was not a career year for Eli. It was not his best year. Period. I didn't point out slight differentials in numbers I pointed out a 79% change in numbers. Since when is 79% a slight change? </P>


Eli has made a quantum leap because he has thrown the ball 66 more times this season(thats about two games worth of attempts) than his career average yet has less INTs than his career average. That is saying ALOT. </P>


As for decision making? It is absolutely much better. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year.</P>


Why is this so hard to understand?</P>


*</P>

But it was a career year in TDs and in completion percentage. Thats a fact. The fact that you won't acknowledge that is bordering on troll behavior so please come off it

The truth is you can't think for yourself. The talking heads said Eli sucks so you agree...and then they said he's Elite so you agree.

lawl
01-13-2012, 05:06 PM
Parcells mentioned YPA as the stat that means the most to him when it comes to QBs which is why I include it.</P>


He didnt have a career high in yardage in '10(which is a big boy stat)</P>


He had a career high in TDs and a career worst in interceptions in '10. </P>


After the '10 season his career year, imo, was 2009.</P>


From 09 to '10-</P>


His yardage declined a miniscule %age likewise his comp% increased a miniscule percentage. Those two cancel each other out</P>


On the other hand his TDs increased by 15% while his INTs worsened by 79%.. 79%!!!</P>


Just because Eli's average INTs per year is 17 doesnt mean thats a good thing, just because 25 INTs is an anomaly doesn't mean it didnt happen. Your conjecture lacks any real substance.</P>


His YPA was also higher in 09 as well as passer rating.</P>


To think that '10 was a career year for Eli is absolutely false.</P>


To the contrary. In the stats I pointed out it WAS a career year. There's no way to get around that. I didn't say it was overall. I specified the area's where he put up career numbers. And I thought that his yardage in 2010 was worth mentioning since he was just a few yards shy of his career high. And I still haven't heard you reconcile how you claim that Eli has made a quantum leap by throwing his career average in INTS. You see all this splitting hairs on the stats is to my point. YOU'RE the one sayings he's MUCH better this year, yet you're reduced to pointing out YPA and slight differencials in the numbers. There's just nothing to back up your argument short of taking Gumby's way out and saying that Eli's decision making is better.</P>


'10 was not a career year for Eli. It was not his best year. Period. I didn't point out slight differentials in numbers I pointed out a 79% change in numbers. Since when is 79% a slight change? </P>


Eli has made a quantum leap because he has thrown the ball 66 more times this season(thats about two games worth of attempts) than his career average yet has less INTs than his career average. That is saying ALOT. </P>


As for decision making? It is absolutely much better. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year.</P>


Why is this so hard to understand?</P>


</P>


But it was a career year in TDs and in completion percentage. Thats a fact. The fact that you won't acknowledge that is bordering on troll behavior so please come off it The truth is you can't think for yourself. The talking heads said Eli sucks so you agree...and then they said he's Elite so you agree.</P>


I have acknowledged that it was his highest TDs and comp%. I have never stated otherwise.</P>


I have never thought Eli sucks.</P>


The truth is you have no response. No true reasoning to dismiss what I've said. Nothing in your reply has anything to do with what my post is about.</P>


The fact that you think Eli is the best QB in the league is all that needs to be said about you for everyone to know where you mind is at. Well, actually, who the hell knows where that mother ****er is at because you're flat out crazy.</P>

Gianthunter
01-13-2012, 05:17 PM
It is a big week for him to move up. Didn't mean to inject on the sword crossing contest.

GCGiant
01-14-2012, 06:47 AM
and stop bringing up what people say as if it's evidence.


Man...I'm thinking that might be the best quote I have ever read on this or any other board...ever.

If what people said was evidence...Barry Bonds would have never broken Mark M's single season HR record. I can clearly remember hearing Jim Rome saying, "Now that's one record that will never be broken"...about a year before it was broken.

I have heard people say that Tebow would never play in the NFL. You know...after this year they just might keep him around until next year for a 2nd look-see.

I have heard people say that Philip Rivers is the best QB in the NFL. Yeah...I know...kinda funny, right?

Anyway...I could probably...no, definitely...go on and on about this one, but congrats on what I consider to be the best quote ever. I hope you didn't steal it.

burier
01-14-2012, 01:39 PM
Parcells mentioned YPA as the stat that means the most to him when it comes to QBs which is why I include it.</P>


He didnt have a career high in yardage in '10(which is a big boy stat)</P>


He had a career high in TDs and a career worst in interceptions in '10. </P>


After the '10 season his career year, imo, was 2009.</P>


From 09 to '10-</P>


His yardage declined a miniscule %age likewise his comp% increased a miniscule percentage. Those two cancel each other out</P>


On the other hand his TDs increased by 15% while his INTs worsened by 79%.. 79%!!!</P>


Just because Eli's average INTs per year is 17 doesnt mean thats a good thing, just because 25 INTs is an anomaly doesn't mean it didnt happen. Your conjecture lacks any real substance.</P>


His YPA was also higher in 09 as well as passer rating.</P>


To think that '10 was a career year for Eli is absolutely false.</P>


To the contrary. In the stats I pointed out it WAS a career year. There's no way to get around that. I didn't say it was overall. I specified the area's where he put up career numbers. And I thought that his yardage in 2010 was worth mentioning since he was just a few yards shy of his career high. And I still haven't heard you reconcile how you claim that Eli has made a quantum leap by throwing his career average in INTS. You see all this splitting hairs on the stats is to my point. YOU'RE the one sayings he's MUCH better this year, yet you're reduced to pointing out YPA and slight differencials in the numbers. There's just nothing to back up your argument short of taking Gumby's way out and saying that Eli's decision making is better.</P>


'10 was not a career year for Eli. It was not his best year. Period. I didn't point out slight differentials in numbers I pointed out a 79% change in numbers. Since when is 79% a slight change? </P>


Eli has made a quantum leap because he has thrown the ball 66 more times this season(thats about two games worth of attempts) than his career average yet has less INTs than his career average. That is saying ALOT. </P>


As for decision making? It is absolutely much better. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year.</P>


Why is this so hard to understand?</P>


*</P>


But it was a career year in TDs and in completion percentage. Thats a fact. The fact that you won't acknowledge that is bordering on troll behavior so please come off it The truth is you can't think for yourself. The talking heads said Eli sucks so you agree...and then they said he's Elite so you agree.</P>


I have acknowledged that it was his highest TDs and comp%. I have never stated otherwise.</P>


I have never thought Eli sucks.</P>


The truth is you have no response. No true reasoning to dismiss what I've said. Nothing in your reply has anything to do with what my post is about.</P>


The fact that you think Eli is the best QB in the league is all that needs to be said about you for everyone to know where you mind is at. Well, actually, who the hell knows where that mother ****er is at because you're flat out crazy.</P>

You think I'm crazy because I think Eli is the best QB in the league? Thats fine. The opinion of total lemming doesn't really effect me.

But lets not act like you even have a point here. You're pointing out YPA like you haven't watched Victor Cruz take intermediate or short routes to the house all year.

You're intellecutually dishonest and the fact that you're bringing up my nonrelated position shows where your head is at. You think that's gonna get you some brownie points? You seem dense. You're a follower and troll. I'll let you have the last word because my work here is done.

miked1958
01-14-2012, 02:09 PM
Parcells mentioned YPA as the stat that means the most to him when it comes to QBs which is why I include it.</P>


He didnt have a career high in yardage in '10(which is a big boy stat)</P>


He had a career high in TDs and a career worst in interceptions in '10. </P>


After the '10 season his career year, imo, was 2009.</P>


From 09 to '10-</P>


His yardage declined a miniscule %age likewise his comp% increased a miniscule percentage. Those two cancel each other out</P>


On the other hand his TDs increased by 15% while his INTs worsened by 79%.. 79%!!!</P>


Just because Eli's average INTs per year is 17 doesnt mean thats a good thing, just because 25 INTs is an anomaly doesn't mean it didnt happen. Your conjecture lacks any real substance.</P>


His YPA was also higher in 09 as well as passer rating.</P>


To think that '10 was a career year for Eli is absolutely false.</P>


To the contrary. In the stats I pointed out it WAS a career year. There's no way to get around that. I didn't say it was overall. I specified the area's where he put up career numbers. And I thought that his yardage in 2010 was worth mentioning since he was just a few yards shy of his career high. And I still haven't heard you reconcile how you claim that Eli has made a quantum leap by throwing his career average in INTS. You see all this splitting hairs on the stats is to my point. YOU'RE the one sayings he's MUCH better this year, yet you're reduced to pointing out YPA and slight differencials in the numbers. There's just nothing to back up your argument short of taking Gumby's way out and saying that Eli's decision making is better.</P>


'10 was not a career year for Eli. It was not his best year. Period. I didn't point out slight differentials in numbers I pointed out a 79% change in numbers. Since when is 79% a slight change? </P>


Eli has made a quantum leap because he has thrown the ball 66 more times this season(thats about two games worth of attempts) than his career average yet has less INTs than his career average. That is saying ALOT. </P>


As for decision making? It is absolutely much better. He has thrown the ball away TWICE as many times as he did last year.</P>


Why is this so hard to understand?</P>


*</P>


But it was a career year in TDs and in completion percentage. Thats a fact. The fact that you won't acknowledge that is bordering on troll behavior so please come off it The truth is you can't think for yourself. The talking heads said Eli sucks so you agree...and then they said he's Elite so you agree.</P>


I have acknowledged that it was his highest TDs and comp%. I have never stated otherwise.</P>


I have never thought Eli sucks.</P>


The truth is you have no response. No true reasoning to dismiss what I've said. Nothing in your reply has anything to do with what my post is about.</P>


The fact that you think Eli is the best QB in the league is all that needs to be said about you for everyone to know where you mind is at. Well, actually, who the hell knows where that mother ****er is at because you're flat out crazy.</P>

You think I'm crazy because I think Eli is the best QB in the league? Thats fine. The opinion of total lemming doesn't really effect me.

But lets not act like you even have a point here. You're pointing out YPA like you haven't watched Victor Cruz take intermediate or short routes to the house all year.

You're intellecutually dishonest and the fact that you're bringing up my nonrelated position shows where your head is at. You think that's gonna get you some brownie points? You seem dense. You're a follower and troll. I'll let you have the last word because my work here is done.
I dont think u are crazy dude. I agree. I was maker of the thread

miked1958
01-15-2012, 11:28 PM
Someone else made a post of all the top QBs stats in their first 8 years playing. Eli is either at or near the top in most of the categories. With a much time as Brady and Bree's he could eventually pass them and alot of the old QBs. U guys should checkout that thread</P>


All the young guys are on pace to break the old guys records.</P>


</P>


Yes but Eli is Slightly ahead of where Brady and Brees were after their 8th seasons...</P>


</P>


And Rivers and Ben are WAY ahead of Eli - per attempt.* So is Ryan and probably many, many others.</P>


</P>


hold on i will paste in that list.</P>


</P>


Having trouble finding that thread. cant remember the title. anyone know..</P>


</P>


found it. here is the what the OP in that Thread posted...</P>


"</P>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>One of my obsessive followers requested I take time out of my busy day to make this list....

Here is the list of QB stats through their first 8 years. I pulled the QB's who I consider to be the best in the past 40 years.


Lets start with our boy.... Eli Manning.

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDS 129 INTS

Brady 26,364 yards 197 TDS 86 INTS

Peyton 33,239 yards 244 TDS 130 INTS

Brees 26,258 yards 168 TDS 99 INTS

Favre 26,803 yards 213 TDS 118 INTS

Elway 24,721 yards 135 TDS 128 INTS

Montana 21,498 yards 141 TDS 76 INTS

Marino 31,414 yards 241 TDS 136 INTS

Moon 27,679 yards 157 TDS 133 INTS

Troy 22,733 yards 110 TDS 98 INTS

Kelly 26,413 yards 179 TDS 126 INTS

Fouts 19,454 yards 112 TDS 125 INTS

Big Ben 26,579 yards 165 TDS 100 INTS

Rivers 24,285 yards 163 TDS 78 INTS

Steve Young - Literally did nothing his first 7 years, one bad season as the full time starter in Tampa. His whole career were years 8-14.


My take after analyzing the numbers. Keep in mind I analyzed a lot more than TDS, yards and INTS.

3 QBS in history have thrown for more yards than Eli through 8 seasons. Peyton, Marino, and Moon. Moon only by 100 yards and he started the whole season his rookie year. Peyton also started the whole season his rookie year. Also keep in mind that all 3 of these guys who threw for more yards, ALSO threw for more INTS during their first 8 years than Eli did. (even with Elis 25 last year, and even with all the nonsense talk that he throws way too many ints)

Just 4 QBS in history have thrown for more TDs in their first 8 years than Eli has. Peyton, Brady, Favre, and Marino. Brady only did so because he threw for 50 TDs in his 8th season.


Other notes from this list.... Alot of these QB's came into their own (stats wise) during season 8.


Most of these QBs didnt win their first super bowl until after year 8, that is if they ever won one at all.


When all is said and done, Eli will not only be at the top of every Giants passing record there is, but he will also be at the top or very close to the top of every major passing record in NFL history.


I would love to hear the haters response to this, because I have plenty of ammo left for the dumb responses I am about to hear. Especially after breaking down the stats and seeing what years these QB's really shined. There is a lot of talk about its a new NFL, but a lot of these QB's were putting up monster (madden like) numbers a long time ago... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff>
*</DIV></FONT>
<DIV class=ForumPostContentText><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>Looking at his list Eli is on track to be one of*the best</FONT>

</DIV>


</FONT></P>


That post is so flawed it's not even funny.* Here's my response:</P>


Comparing stats from different eras is like applies and oranges.* </P>


Also, you need to normalize all of those stats per attempt.* Saying player A passed for more yards then player B holds no water if player A passed the ball twice as much.</P>


Edit: AND if those old timers were already putting up monster numbers, that just goes to show how good they were.</P>


Herey ou go:</P>


<FONT color=#020f42>http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html</FONT> (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html)</P>


</P>


Well anyway that thread is over 8 pages long so i think alot of what is being said is being duped in both posts. </P>


however i will give the credit to the original poster of that thread... I just brought the info over here. </P>


the credit goes to...................... <FONT color=#667766>NoHuddle10</FONT> (/members/NoHuddle10.aspx) </P>


</P>


Do you at least understand why his post is so flawed?</P>
Yes I do now, thanks for clearing it up.
With that said, I think Eli takes a huge step forward this sunday
This....

Bree's and Rodgers are now both done for year while elite Eli continues to add to his TD and yards tally.
Just brady left in it now

giantsforce
01-15-2012, 11:53 PM
I was not a big fan of Eli but all I have to say is that he has made me a believer. He is not flashy, GQ, or anything like that. He is a plain guy that does not get rattled under pressure and he goes out there and he does his job the best that he can. I'd rather have him at the controls of the offense than any of the other elite QB's. Let's not forget his toughness too. Today he took some tough late hits and he got up and he did his job. Hats off to him. He no longer has to defend his statement because he let his play do the talking.