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bLuereverie
01-14-2012, 09:00 AM
Thought we could start a cornerback specific discussion rather than go back and forth between threads.

I've always had an affinity for the position, and in today's game, it's the counter to the arms race.

Now obviously, the primary debate at hand is which best fits the Giants in skillset, projected draft position and so on, but don't let that be the end all in the discussion.



Morris Claiborne <u>LSU</u> Jr 6-0 185 <FONT color=#1c62b9>vid</FONT> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkAKNOr4Zy4)

Dre Kirkpatrick <u>Alabama</u> Jr 6-2 192

Alfonzo Dennard <u>Nebraska</u> Sr 5-10 205 <FONT color=#1c62b9>vid</FONT> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMxhOjSAFeM)

Janoris Jenkins <u>North Alabama</u> Sr 5-10 182 <FONT color=#1c62b9>vid2010</FONT> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nau0rZReXk)

Chase Minnifield <u>Virginia</u> rSr 6-0 185

Jayron Hosley <u>Virginia Tech</u> Jr 5-10 172

Stephon Gilmore CB <u>South Carolina</u> Jr 6-1 193

Trumaine Johnson <u>Montana</u> Sr 6-2 204

Brandon Boykin <u>Georgia</u> Sr 5-10 183

Leonard Johnson <u>Iowa State</u> Sr 5-10 202

Coryell Judie <u>Texas A&M</u> rSr 5-11 190

Shaun Prater <u>Iowa</u> Sr 5-10 185

Cliff Harris <u>Oregon</u> Jr 5-11 168 <FONT color=#1c62b9>vid 2010</FONT> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KP8wtBKVss)

Josh Robinson <u>UCF</u> Jr 5-10 192

Donnie Fletcher <u>Boston College</u> Sr 6-1 195

Omar Bolden <u>Arizona State</u> rSr 5-10 195

Casey Hayward <u>Vanderbilt</u> Sr 5-11 188

Ryan Steed <u>Furman</u> Sr 5-11 190

Jamell Fleming <u>Oklahoma</u> rSr 5-11 192

<font size="1">just quick list pasted from cbs. will update remaining prospects of this year and next as well as vids/reports </font>

Raptor22
01-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Of those prospects, Kirkpatrick fits the Giants CB mold the best, but I highly doubt he's around when the Giants draft.

I really like Janoris Jenkins. He's locked down pretty much every top WR he's faced (Jeffery, Julio Jones, and AJ Green when he was at Florida). Unfortunately, he's a nipplehead, and probably wouldn't fare too well in NY.

Hayward out of Vandy could be a good option in the 2nd.

(regardless of how the draft goes, Tryon damn well better be a Giant next season)

bLuereverie
01-14-2012, 10:17 AM
Of those prospects, Kirkpatrick fits the Giants CB mold the best, but I highly doubt he's around when the Giants draft.

I really like Janoris Jenkins. He's locked down pretty much every top WR he's faced (Jeffery, Julio Jones, and AJ Green when he was at Florida). Unfortunately, he's a nipplehead, and probably wouldn't fare too well in NY.

Hayward out of Vandy could be a good option in the 2nd.

(regardless of how the draft goes, Tryon damn well better be a Giant next season)


Pretty much wrote what I was typing out atm.

Of the current situation, Terrell Thomas obviously should be resigned. I also would like Tryon as he had some bright moments with Indy.

Dre pretty much cemented his early position in the draft. I'm just hoping he doesn't fall to a division rival.

I'm on board for exploring Janoris at this moment [shoot, I was for Jimmy Smith last year as well]. I leave character issues for those doing the player interviews in the draft process. But Jenkins is indeed a midround talent that can possibly slip to late first.

I've seen Steph Gilmore creeping up to the first, but I think he's limited to teams who predominately play zone.

I haven't watched Hosley enough to make an assessment, but from what little I saw I did not care for too much. Was wondering if the VTech CB name was boosting him a bit.

Raptor22
01-14-2012, 10:41 AM
Of those prospects, Kirkpatrick fits the Giants CB mold the best, but I highly doubt he's around when the Giants draft.

I really like Janoris Jenkins. He's locked down pretty much every top WR he's faced (Jeffery, Julio Jones, and AJ Green when he was at Florida). Unfortunately, he's a nipplehead, and probably wouldn't fare too well in NY.

Hayward out of Vandy could be a good option in the 2nd.

(regardless of how the draft goes, Tryon damn well better be a Giant next season)


Pretty much wrote what I was typing out atm.

Of the current situation, Terrell Thomas obviously should be resigned. I also would like Tryon as he had some bright moments with Indy.

Dre pretty much cemented his early position in the draft. I'm just hoping he doesn't fall to a division rival.

I'm on board for exploring Janoris at this moment [shoot, I was for Jimmy Smith last year as well]. I leave character issues for those doing the player interviews in the draft process. But Jenkins is indeed a midround talent that can possibly slip to late first.

I've seen Steph Gilmore creeping up to the first, but I think he's limited to teams who predominately play zone.

I haven't watched Hosley enough to make an assessment, but from what little I saw I did not care for too much. Was wondering if the VTech CB name was boosting him a bit.

What worries me about Jenkins more than anything else is that he didn't learn. He got into trouble in Florida... and then went and got into trouble again and had to go into exile in CFB Siberia.

I don't mind "character concerns" if its a mistake of youth (ie: Austin, 'Rio, Bradshaw), but not learning from your mistakes is a much more serious offense in my eyes.

bLuereverie
01-14-2012, 10:51 AM
Hence why I am careful to choose the term "explore". Just because I covet the player does not mean I'm not overlooking the person.

Raptor22
01-14-2012, 12:01 PM
Hence why I am careful to choose the term "explore". Just because I covet the player does not mean I'm not overlooking the person.

That's the best way to look at it (barring particularly bad behavior)

But I definitely think the Giants come away from this draft with secondary help in one form or another.

I also like Dennard from Nebraska. I don't know if his upside is as high as Prince's, but I think he's more polished at the moment. Also on the S side of things, I think Mark Barron is a prototypical Giants draft pick, and would be a GREAT pickup if Jones either can't make it back, or comes back as a LB.

(Anyone know if there has been any word on that? I know they were going to be asking the Giants what he should work towards sometime in December)

Spizi
01-14-2012, 12:50 PM
I say we go get Claiborne... idc how just do it haha

elitime
01-14-2012, 02:36 PM
Taking another CB two years in a row? Thomas must be signed, but there are a bunch a free agent CB and S out there after the seaon. I know the Giants don;t really make huge waves in the free agent market but I think to pick another CB and groom them to be a starter its hit and miss, Flowers and Carr from KC were looking like 2 of the best but this season not so much. Those kind of postion players are hard to have an everyday count on him player.Webster,Thomas Prince, Rolle,KP, when all are heathly could be top DB field in NFL. O-line a must and Linebackers are a huge need. Remember Taylor, Pepper, Banks, Reasons? Wish we could have backers like that again. Imagine the way our front 4 are then 1 or 2 linebackers that can play up to the front 4 level. Wow! Maybe a pipe dream but it's a dream.

bLuereverie
01-14-2012, 03:02 PM
It is within the realm of BPA. If the top player available is a corner, then he should be evaluated at the very least.

Even if TT is resigned, there is no guarantee how he will come back after surgery.

It is a new age of NFL, where your secondary is as important as ever. Not to mention, cornerback is the 5th highest paid position. Free Agents carry a much greater premium on the cap than drafted prospects.

And again, this is the general cornerback thread. Not who the Giants will take. So this has nothing to do with Oline and LBs.

ShockeyShow
01-14-2012, 03:07 PM
Taking another CB two years in a row? Thomas must be signed, but there are a bunch a free agent CB and S out there after the seaon. I know the Giants don;t really make huge waves in the free agent market but I think to pick another CB and groom them to be a starter its hit and miss, Flowers and Carr from KC were looking like 2 of the best but this season not so much. Those kind of postion players are hard to have an everyday count on him player.Webster,Thomas Prince, Rolle,KP, when all are heathly could be top DB field in NFL. O-line a must and Linebackers are a huge need. Remember Taylor, Pepper, Banks, Reasons? Wish we could have backers like that again. Imagine the way our front 4 are then 1 or 2 linebackers that can play up to the front 4 level. Wow! Maybe a pipe dream but it's a dream.

I couldnt agree more. We have much more pressing needs at MLB and OLine. We should wait a ccouple years to draft a sure-thing at db like Tyrann Mathieu from LSU and spend our picks on some big time LBs like Upashaw, Hightower or Burfict

Spizi
01-14-2012, 03:32 PM
Taking another CB two years in a row? Thomas must be signed, but there are a bunch a free agent CB and S out there after the seaon. I know the Giants don;t really make huge waves in the free agent market but I think to pick another CB and groom them to be a starter its hit and miss, Flowers and Carr from KC were looking like 2 of the best but this season not so much. Those kind of postion players are hard to have an everyday count on him player.Webster,Thomas Prince, Rolle,KP, when all are heathly could be top DB field in NFL. O-line a must and Linebackers are a huge need. Remember Taylor, Pepper, Banks, Reasons? Wish we could have backers like that again. Imagine the way our front 4 are then 1 or 2 linebackers that can play up to the front 4 level. Wow! Maybe a pipe dream but it's a dream.

I couldnt agree more. We have much more pressing needs at MLB and OLine. We should wait a ccouple years to draft a sure-thing at db like Tyrann Mathieu from LSU and spend our picks on some big time LBs like Upashaw, Hightower or Burfict

Mathieu will never get drafted by the giants. He's a midget at 5'9 probably more like 5'8 and he got abused in the national championship game because of his size.

ShockeyShow
01-14-2012, 03:45 PM
Taking another CB two years in a row? Thomas must be signed, but there are a bunch a free agent CB and S out there after the seaon. I know the Giants don;t really make huge waves in the free agent market but I think to pick another CB and groom them to be a starter its hit and miss, Flowers and Carr from KC were looking like 2 of the best but this season not so much. Those kind of postion players are hard to have an everyday count on him player.Webster,Thomas Prince, Rolle,KP, when all are heathly could be top DB field in NFL. O-line a must and Linebackers are a huge need. Remember Taylor, Pepper, Banks, Reasons? Wish we could have backers like that again. Imagine the way our front 4 are then 1 or 2 linebackers that can play up to the front 4 level. Wow! Maybe a pipe dream but it's a dream.

I couldnt agree more. We have much more pressing needs at MLB and OLine. We should wait a ccouple years to draft a sure-thing at db like Tyrann Mathieu from LSU and spend our picks on some big time LBs like Upashaw, Hightower or Burfict

Mathieu will never get drafted by the giants. He's a midget at 5'9 probably more like 5'8 and he got abused in the national championship game because of his size.


Get outta here. He's got coverage abilities that come along only so often (Revis, Woodson), and is gonna stack on another 15/20 pounds prepping for the NFL. The only reason Claiborne had as good a season as he did, was because HoneyComb was on the other side.

As for the abuse....that was the entire team. Bama is an NFL team

slipknottin
01-14-2012, 06:25 PM
Hes right, as good as Mathieu's ball skills are, he will never be drafted by the giants.

Giants draft prototype defensive players, especially DBs. They just steer clear of DBs under 5'11.

Perhaps under 5'11 if a guy had exceptionally long arms they would take a look, but I dont think Mathieu is a freak like that.

titwio
01-14-2012, 06:35 PM
I've always liked Kirkpatrick because of his size and physicality but he's going waayy before the Giants pick.

Right now I'm on the Chase Minnifield bandwagon. I've been watching a lot of tape on him and he'd be great addition to the secondary. He's a play maker and plays zone very well as well as man. I'd love if the Giants went CB in the 1st again and they should be in prime position for him in the late 20's....Just depends on what players fall and who's the BPA in that spot.

lawl
01-14-2012, 06:40 PM
If he isnt 6'. Chances are we arent drafting him early</P>

slipknottin
01-14-2012, 06:41 PM
Ive always loved Cliff Harris. Even if he is an idiot.

But if he actually does measure in at 5'11, I could certainly see him being a target mid rounds. Best off man coverage CB in the draft, IMO.

His return skills would be a huge added bonus.

titwio
01-14-2012, 06:41 PM
If he isnt 6'. Chances are we arent drafting him early</P>

Chase is exactly 6'0...He's the same size as Prince.

titwio
01-14-2012, 06:50 PM
Ive always loved Cliff Harris. Even if he is an idiot.

But if he actually does measure in at 5'11, I could certainly see him being a target mid rounds. Best off man coverage CB in the draft, IMO.

His return skills would be a huge added bonus.

I definitely wouldn't mind Harris. I don't think he's 1st round material even though people were projecting him there before the season started.

I'm curious to find out what slot he does land in. One things for sure is the Giants need another corner especially with guys coming back off injuries FA and such.

slipknottin
01-14-2012, 06:53 PM
I definitely wouldn't mind Harris. I don't think he's 1st round material even though people were projecting him there before the season started.

Definitely not. Certainly cant show up to the combine at 165 pounds either.

Will be interesting, love him mid-late rounds.

titwio
01-14-2012, 06:59 PM
I definitely wouldn't mind Harris. I don't think he's 1st round material even though people were projecting him there before the season started.

Definitely not. Certainly cant show up to the combine at 165 pounds either.

Will be interesting, love him mid-late rounds.

Yeah I'd love him there too. Last year all kinds of draft heads were projecting Harris to be a top 20 pick...maybe even top 15 in 2012.

Here's one of the articles on him....
http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2011/05/nfl_draft_oregon_cornerback_cl.html

deekay7685
01-14-2012, 10:29 PM
instead of resigning TT to even a 1 yr contract why not look elsewhere.
i would like us to sign BCarr from KCT. someone is a quality player (though not a star) and doesn;t have an injury history.
a secondary of webster-carr-phillips- rolle w/ prince would be nice.
i would draft someone in the 4th (Hayward) or 5th round such as Asa Jackson, a kid with blazing speed and can double as a good punt returner.

bLuereverie
01-25-2012, 09:09 AM
instead of resigning TT to even a 1 yr contract why not look elsewhere.
i would like us to sign BCarr from KCT. someone is a quality player (though not a star) and doesn;t have an injury history.
a secondary of webster-carr-phillips- rolle w/ prince would be nice.
i would draft someone in the 4th (Hayward) or 5th round such as Asa Jackson, a kid with blazing speed and can double as a good punt returner.

The cost of signing a cornerback like BCarr who will ask for starting CB money will be far more pricey than signing TT to a short term deal to reestablish his value in a healthy season.

Some of my notes and observations from Senior Bowl practice:

Janoris Jenkins has been up and down in competition, but for the most part has been battling throughout nicely.

On the other end, Alfonzo Dennard hasn't looked good at all. He has a great break to the ball on the short routes, but has looked horrible in off man to say the least. It looks like there are only three corners who deserve a first round selection right now.

Everyone's favorite Casey Hayward has looked solid and consistent. He lacks speed as he got beat on some of the deep routes, but hard to blame him when they're playing one on one with no safety help. Doesn't bite on many moves, and in the few times he got "beat" on shorter and intermediate routes. he was in great position to make a play and just missed out on an awkward throw and one-hand catch from Criner.

This Bentley kid from Louisiana Lafayette has probably had the finest practices thus far. Looks dwarfed next to some of these receivers, but has held his own, especially against Dwight Jones who probably has a good 6" on him.

Leonard Johnson from Iowa is someone I know nothing about but heard raves about from commentary. Haven't seen what exactly they are seeing though from practices. Looks best matched up at the line, but not so much i coverage.

Is George Iloka a FS or CB?

slipknottin
01-25-2012, 11:16 AM
Is George Iloka a FS or CB?

FS, but he has experience playing CB.

critters
01-25-2012, 12:41 PM
I'm not very high on Gilmore. He's just too inconsistent IMO.

It's unfortunate Dre Kirkpatrick will be gone by the time we draft, but there's another guy on that Alabama squad we need to seriously consider in Dequan Menzie, although he's just shy of 6ft. His cover skills are great and his tackling is very impressive. He also beat out D. Milliner at Alabama, a 5 star player that had started the year before Menzie got to campus.

Josh Norman is a tall/rangy CB to watch for. 6ft about 200lbs, long arms and good speed. Him and Trumaine Johnson are guys with great measurables and speed that could turn into elite CBs but would start off as projects IMO.

I also like Brandon Boykin. He's a little on the small size but his cover skills really impressed me this year. He'd also be a good return man.

slipknottin
01-25-2012, 12:44 PM
Dequan Menzie, although he's just shy of 6ft.

Hes just over 5'10, actually.

Like every alabama prospect, he measured shorter than expected

bLuereverie
01-25-2012, 03:16 PM
Gilmore played plenty of zone and at best, press bail in college. He looks explosive to the ball and to the run, but limited to teams who play zone like perhaps NE. I just didn't find anything footage with him playing any man.