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rainierjef
09-16-2011, 07:32 PM
As fans with Kiwi at the SLB position?

personally i would like to put Kiwi back at DE. and i might take some flack for this but start Herz at SLB. Get the DE pressure rotation back on the defensive line with kiwi, jpp and tuck and when osi is back have him and tuck or JPP rotate in some DT duties, on passing downs.

i think with the absence of Terell , Johnatton and Prince the one thing we need to do is get more pressure on the QB to hide some of the weakness in our secondary and LB core.


what do you guys think?

G4L
09-16-2011, 07:59 PM
I would rather see him line up at DE - he's pretty close to an elite pash rusher when lined up at DE, he's an average SAM, at best.

However, if they didn't move Kiwi back to DE with both Tuck and Osi out against the Skins - its not gonna happen.

Giantz4Life
09-16-2011, 08:02 PM
I would rather see him line up at DE - he's pretty close to an elite pash rusher when lined up at DE, he's an average SAM, at best.

However, if they didn't move Kiwi back to DE with both Tuck and Osi out against the Skins - its not gonna happen.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the topic....

AARON ROSS = OUR FUTURE
09-16-2011, 08:04 PM
I like the guy, as a person and as a player and I love to see more of him on the field, but he's at his best when his hand is in the ground on 3rd down.

BurnerNYG
09-16-2011, 08:32 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. They're ruining his career having him out there in space.

middlecountrygiantsfan
09-16-2011, 08:58 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?

TuckYou
09-16-2011, 09:15 PM
We are't but I'm pretty sure Reese and company are. It's pathetic really. He is a great DE being wasted. Did he even play last week?

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 01:47 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

middlecountrygiantsfan
09-17-2011, 02:05 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Do you fault steve smith for leaving?

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 02:11 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Do you fault steve smith for leaving?
I don't fault Smith, Cofield or Boss for leaving. The NFL is a business and teams will release an injured player at the drop of a dime. I just felt that Smith could've found a better team to go play for.

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 02:22 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 02:28 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 02:34 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.

Do you think he's the first player to be asked to play a different position and do it successfully? Do you also not think he's the biggest beneficiary of not having to put extra stress on his cervical collar.

He is not being punished.

middlecountrygiantsfan
09-17-2011, 02:36 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 02:52 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 02:53 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.

Do you think he's the first player to be asked to play a different position and do it successfully?* Do you also not think he's the biggest beneficiary of not having to put extra stress on his cervical collar.

He is not being punished.
No I don't think he's being punished RF nor do I think his transition to LBer is or has been successful. Kiwi's complete and best season playing DE without having to split time on the field was in 2008 and he had 8 sacks. There's no telling how high his ceiling is if he gotta constantly get bounced around.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 02:56 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me. Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones. You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play. Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract. You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 02:57 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.

Do you think he's the first player to be asked to play a different position and do it successfully? Do you also not think he's the biggest beneficiary of not having to put extra stress on his cervical collar.

He is not being punished.
No I don't think he's being punished RF nor do I think his transition to LBer is or has been successful. Kiwi's complete and best season playing DE without having to split time on the field was in 2008 and he had 8 sacks. There's no telling how high his ceiling is if he gotta constantly get bounced around.

He was asked to play DE against the Redksins and he said he'd rather play LB and let Tollefson get some playing time. We'll just have to see how it all plays out but it doesn't seem he unhappy with the change.

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 02:58 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me.* Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones.* You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play.* Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract.* You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>Kiwi was a free agent.

middlecountrygiantsfan
09-17-2011, 02:59 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?

NY_Eli
09-17-2011, 02:59 PM
It seems to me that if Kiwi really felt his career was being wasted by the Giants coaches he would have asked to be traded.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 03:00 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me. Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones. You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play. Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract. You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year. </P>

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 03:02 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing? I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 03:05 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing? I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.
</P>


AND the willingness to do the job he is asked. That goes a long way in a coaches eyes, espescially when you're injured as often as Kiwi.</P>

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 03:05 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me.* Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones.* You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play.* Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract.* You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year.* </P>In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 03:10 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me. Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones. You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play. Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract. You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year. </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out. I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why. Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot. Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 03:11 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing? I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.
</p>


AND the willingness to do the job he is asked. That goes a long way in a coaches eyes, espescially when you're injured as often as Kiwi.</p>

Good point.

middlecountrygiantsfan
09-17-2011, 03:11 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing? I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.


No he wouldnt but that is kinda my point. Yes his "versatility" is what makes him have a job on <u>this </u>team. But as far as where his skills would be <u>best </u>utilized it would be at DE on another team. He showed flashes of exceptional talent at DE, we havent seen that at LB.

Wouldnt it be best for both parties if he was traded for a talented experienced LB. He gets to play where is best, and we get talent where we desperately need it.

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 03:12 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me.* Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones.* You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play.* Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract.* You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year.* </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out.* I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why.* Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot.* Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>Next insult I'm gonna ask you to meet me somewhere to see how tough you really are.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 03:13 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me. Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones. You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play. Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract. You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year. </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out. I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why. Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot. Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>


Next insult I'm gonna ask you to meet me somewhere to see how tough you really are.</P>


lol......grow up, moron. You don't like being disagreed with and your immaturity is showing. I didn't insult you in my first response, but because I disagreed with you (as I often do), you took it as an insult. You really need to stop being so thin skinned..</P>


FWIW...I am not difficult to find, but be careful what you come looking for.</P>

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 03:16 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me.* Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones.* You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play.* Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract.* You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year.* </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out.* I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why.* Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot.* Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>


Next insult I'm gonna ask you to meet me somewhere to see how tough you really are.</P>


lol......grow up, moron.</P>I don't call names over the internet. That's what cowards do. I call names in people's faces and if they think they're tough, I might be inclined to smack the **** out of em.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 03:18 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me. Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones. You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play. Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract. You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year. </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out. I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why. Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot. Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>


Next insult I'm gonna ask you to meet me somewhere to see how tough you really are.</P>


lol......grow up, moron.</P>


I don't call names over the internet. That's what cowards do. I call names in people's faces and if they think they're tough, I might be inclined to smack the **** out of em.</P>


Again....I am not hard to find. So I'm a coward for insulting you over the internet......what do you call ones that threaten violence over the internet?</P>

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 03:27 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me.* Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones.* You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play.* Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract.* You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year.* </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out.* I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why.* Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot.* Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>


Next insult I'm gonna ask you to meet me somewhere to see how tough you really are.</P>


lol......grow up, moron.</P>


I don't call names over the internet. That's what cowards do. I call names in people's faces and if they think they're tough, I might be inclined to smack the **** out of em.</P>


Again....I am not hard to find.* So I'm a coward for insulting you over the internet......what do you call ones that threaten violence over the internet?</P>What do they call ppl that keep following others around? STALKERS! I'm not your friend and I don't even wanna debate with you so take your opinion and shove it up your ***.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 03:31 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me. Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones. You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play. Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract. You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year. </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out. I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why. Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot. Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>


Next insult I'm gonna ask you to meet me somewhere to see how tough you really are.</P>


lol......grow up, moron.</P>


I don't call names over the internet. That's what cowards do. I call names in people's faces and if they think they're tough, I might be inclined to smack the **** out of em.</P>


Again....I am not hard to find. So I'm a coward for insulting you over the internet......what do you call ones that threaten violence over the internet?</P>


What do they call ppl that keep following others around? STALKERS! I'm not your friend and I don't even wanna debate with you so take your opinion and shove it up your ***.</P>


lol.....now you see why I think you're a moron? Stalking you???? I was involved in a thread that you posted in and I responded to your post. (Rather nicely I might add) you just didn't like me disagreeing with you. If that is stalking then EVERYONE here should be brought up on charges. You don't want to debate me? Stop saying stupid things or responding to me. Your every response to me is a debate......no matter how moronic.</P>

FBomb
09-17-2011, 03:36 PM
Well...this WAS an interesting thread for a while. It's a shame that some posters don't take very well to being disagreed with....</P>


Anyway...to sum up...I think Kiwi is doing what he wants to do, or he would have moved on when he had the chance.</P>

middlecountrygiantsfan
09-17-2011, 03:44 PM
Well...this WAS an interesting thread for a while. It's a shame that some posters don't take very well to being disagreed with....</p>


Anyway...to sum up...I think Kiwi is doing what he wants to do, or he would have moved on when he had the chance.</p>

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/106/1061153/cop-out-20100114110347473.jpg

Just kidding Fbomb

FBomb
09-17-2011, 03:46 PM
Well...this WAS an interesting thread for a while. It's a shame that some posters don't take very well to being disagreed with....</P>


Anyway...to sum up...I think Kiwi is doing what he wants to do, or he would have moved on when he had the chance.</P>




http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/106/1061153/cop-out-20100114110347473.jpg

Just kidding Fbomb
</P>


LMAO!!!! I kind of look like Bruce!!!</P>

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 04:13 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me.* Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones.* You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play.* Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract.* You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year.* </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out.* I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why.* Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot.* Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>


Next insult I'm gonna ask you to meet me somewhere to see how tough you really are.</P>


lol......grow up, moron.</P>


I don't call names over the internet. That's what cowards do. I call names in people's faces and if they think they're tough, I might be inclined to smack the **** out of em.</P>


Again....I am not hard to find.* So I'm a coward for insulting you over the internet......what do you call ones that threaten violence over the internet?</P>


What do they call ppl that keep following others around? STALKERS! I'm not your friend and I don't even wanna debate with you so take your opinion and shove it up your ***.</P>


lol.....now you see why I think you're a moron?* Stalking you????* I was involved in a thread that you posted in and I responded to your post. (Rather nicely I might add)* you just didn't like me disagreeing with you.* If that is stalking then EVERYONE here should be brought up on charges.* You don't want to debate me?* Stop saying stupid things or responding to me.* Your every response to me is a debate......no matter how moronic.</P>You came in here disagreeing with me not knowing what you were talking about first of all.

Second of all, when do you ever agree with me? Think you're smarter than me and everything that comes out my mouth is moronic and yours is gold?

What you got some type of personal problem?

Impressing my friends? That really got me. Who the **** do you think you're talking to? This will be the last time I ever respond to your ignorance.

You might have these ppl around here fooled but you're transparent and I see right through you.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 04:27 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.
They would've tried to sell me that story and all they would've saw after that was the back of my shirt. I could go heal my neck and play the position I got drafted to play on another team.</P>


Sounds like you would be unemployable to me. Lots of players are asked to change positions or play multiple ones. You do what the coaches think is best for the team...if not, you don't play. Showing "the back of your shirt" may impress your friends, but isn't exactly conducive to an NFL career...especially when you are under contract. You can't exactly just walk away to another employer.</P>


Kiwi was a free agent.</P>


lol......Kiwi was asked to change positions WAY before he became a FA. My timing may be a little off but I believe it was during his second year. </P>


In 2007 he played LBer but this yr he had the option to leave and that's where "the back of my shirt" comment came from. You said impress my friends, my kids are my friends. You don't know me man... please stop wasting your time trying to feel me out.</P>


Stop flattering yourself....no one is trying toi feel you out. I don't agree with your opinion on this and I stated as to why. Stop being a sensitive little girl.</P>


And again, he was asked years before he was a FA, so your point is moot. Since Kiwi DIDN'T "show him the back of his shirt" I guess he doesn't agree with you either.</P>


Next insult I'm gonna ask you to meet me somewhere to see how tough you really are.</P>


lol......grow up, moron.</P>


I don't call names over the internet. That's what cowards do. I call names in people's faces and if they think they're tough, I might be inclined to smack the **** out of em.</P>


Again....I am not hard to find. So I'm a coward for insulting you over the internet......what do you call ones that threaten violence over the internet?</P>


What do they call ppl that keep following others around? STALKERS! I'm not your friend and I don't even wanna debate with you so take your opinion and shove it up your ***.</P>


lol.....now you see why I think you're a moron? Stalking you???? I was involved in a thread that you posted in and I responded to your post. (Rather nicely I might add) you just didn't like me disagreeing with you. If that is stalking then EVERYONE here should be brought up on charges. You don't want to debate me? Stop saying stupid things or responding to me. Your every response to me is a debate......no matter how moronic.</P>


You came in here disagreeing with me not knowing what you were talking about first of all. Second of all, when do you ever agree with me? Think you're smarter than me and everything that comes out my mouth is moronic and yours is gold? What you got some type of personal problem? Impressing my friends? That really got me. Who the **** do you think you're talking to? This will be the last time I ever respond to your ignorance. You might have these ppl around here fooled but you're transparent and I see right through you.</P>


I came here and disagreed with youbecause I KNEW whatI was talking about...I made apoint and you got bent out of shape.....And I KNOW the" impressing your friends" quote got you because you still can't let it go. It'scalled being way too sensitive and in love with your own opinion. When you say things like "show them the back of my shirt" rather than "I would have not accepted it and moved on"...you are trying to impress people with your toughness.....much like saying you would "smack the **** out of someone".</P>


You are right though....most of what you say I disagree with. I think a lot of your posts are ridiculous and I will continue you to say it when it happens. That pretty much goes for anyone here....you are not special. No one is. We areALL subject to ridicule and praise equally.</P>


I'm not sure what it is you think you are seeing with me being so transparent and all, but I am what I am andI make no excuses for it. Like me, don't like me....whatever. I will continue to post my honest opinion...if that bothers you, maybe you should seek a different type of forum that frowns on disagreements. Perhaps NickJr.com?</P>


This is also not the first time you said you were going to stop responding to me, so I kind of doubt you.</P>

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 04:44 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing? I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.


No he wouldnt but that is kinda my point. Yes his "versatility" is what makes him have a job on <u>this </u>team. But as far as where his skills would be <u>best </u>utilized it would be at DE on another team. He showed flashes of exceptional talent at DE, we havent seen that at LB.

Wouldnt it be best for both parties if he was traded for a talented experienced LB. He gets to play where is best, and we get talent where we desperately need it.


Not being privy to any conversations the FO may have had with Kiwanuka, I don't know what would be best nor do I know this is not best. Whatever conversation they've had have been appropriately private. Again, Kiwanuka was asked if he'd play at DE against the Redskins and he said no, preferring to let Tollefson take those snaps.

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 06:32 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits.* I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine.* He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that.* Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea.* He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.*

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting.* Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started.* Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing?* I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.


No he wouldnt but that is kinda my point. Yes his "versatility" is what makes him have a job on <u>this </u>team. But as far as where his skills would be <u>best </u>utilized it would be at DE on another team.* He showed flashes of exceptional talent at DE, we havent seen that at LB.

Wouldnt it be best for both parties if he was traded for a talented experienced LB. He gets to play where is best, and we get talent where we desperately need it.


Not being privy to any conversations the FO may have had with Kiwanuka, I don't know what would be best nor do I know this is not best.* Whatever conversation they've had have been appropriately private.* Again, Kiwanuka was asked if he'd play at DE against the Redskins and he said no, preferring to let Tollefson take those snaps.
This is how a conversation should go. Not saying some bull**** like you'll be unemployed if you demand your respect. I haven't been unemployed in yrs and I own property and numerous vehicles and I never let ppl walk all over me or use me how they see fit.

These are all opinions and unless you compare a real life football game with Madden or something ridiculous like that, nobody's opinion trumps the next person's. I used facts, Kiwi had his best yr playing DE as a fulltime starter in 2008... plain and simple.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 07:28 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing? I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.


No he wouldnt but that is kinda my point. Yes his "versatility" is what makes him have a job on <U>this </U>team. But as far as where his skills would be <U>best </U>utilized it would be at DE on another team. He showed flashes of exceptional talent at DE, we havent seen that at LB.

Wouldnt it be best for both parties if he was traded for a talented experienced LB. He gets to play where is best, and we get talent where we desperately need it.


Not being privy to any conversations the FO may have had with Kiwanuka, I don't know what would be best nor do I know this is not best. Whatever conversation they've had have been appropriately private. Again, Kiwanuka was asked if he'd play at DE against the Redskins and he said no, preferring to let Tollefson take those snaps.
This is how a conversation should go. Not saying some bull**** like you'll be unemployed if you demand your respect. I haven't been unemployed in yrs and I own property and numerous vehicles and I never let ppl walk all over me or use me how they see fit. These are all opinions and unless you compare a real life football game with Madden or something ridiculous like that, nobody's opinion trumps the next person's. I used facts, Kiwi had his best yr playing DE as a fulltime starter in 2008... plain and simple.</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7sBTppJAXH3pU3zhZNRi-lpzBNBTTlZai5FxtKN3fAl4ioONa</P>

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 07:32 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck?* His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team.* He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits.* I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine.* He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that.* Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea.* He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.*

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting.* Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started.* Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing?* I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.


No he wouldnt but that is kinda my point. Yes his "versatility" is what makes him have a job on <U>this </U>team. But as far as where his skills would be <U>best </U>utilized it would be at DE on another team.* He showed flashes of exceptional talent at DE, we havent seen that at LB.

Wouldnt it be best for both parties if he was traded for a talented experienced LB. He gets to play where is best, and we get talent where we desperately need it.


Not being privy to any conversations the FO may have had with Kiwanuka, I don't know what would be best nor do I know this is not best.* Whatever conversation they've had have been appropriately private.* Again, Kiwanuka was asked if he'd play at DE against the Redskins and he said no, preferring to let Tollefson take those snaps.
This is how a conversation should go. Not saying some bull**** like you'll be unemployed if you demand your respect. I haven't been unemployed in yrs and I own property and numerous vehicles and I never let ppl walk all over me or use me how they see fit. These are all opinions and unless you compare a real life football game with Madden or something ridiculous like that, nobody's opinion trumps the next person's. I used facts, Kiwi had his best yr playing DE as a fulltime starter in 2008... plain and simple.</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7sBTppJAXH3pU3zhZNRi-lpzBNBTTlZai5FxtKN3fAl4ioONa</P>You're not hard to find huh? Tell me where you be at tough guy.

giantsfan420
09-17-2011, 07:46 PM
burner, listen man, you've made several posts bashing eli. that made me pretty angry.
but that didnt mean i'd just lose any control of myself or rationale.

you trying to fight some one you've never met is hella lame. its an online mb, if you cant a)deal with another persons opinion or b) ignore some one who is trolling you (in this case fbomb) maybe you should just read the posts and comment a lot less until you can control your anger.

there are always going to be people who try to get under your skin, mb or not, you going to fight every person who does? I'm not trying to be a ****, i actually think fbomb is trying to instigate you, and think he's being lame as well. does that mean I should try and fight him?

we're all giants fans. this place is here for the sole reason of talking about giants football, unfortunately it doesnt always go down that way, but if you can't ignore some one then honestly maybe just take a lil break from posting. just my .2,

and btw, the moderators have been very clear this place is to talk about football, any flame wars and they will take care of the problem. just bc me and u disagree about eli doesnt mean i want u to get banned or fbomb to get banned. keep it civil guys

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 08:11 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Do you fault steve smith for leaving?


Smith wanted to go to Philadelphia, that's where he is, no fault to be had.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 08:19 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats. As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <U>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</U>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league. Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing? I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.


No he wouldnt but that is kinda my point. Yes his "versatility" is what makes him have a job on <U>this </U>team. But as far as where his skills would be <U>best </U>utilized it would be at DE on another team. He showed flashes of exceptional talent at DE, we havent seen that at LB.

Wouldnt it be best for both parties if he was traded for a talented experienced LB. He gets to play where is best, and we get talent where we desperately need it.


Not being privy to any conversations the FO may have had with Kiwanuka, I don't know what would be best nor do I know this is not best. Whatever conversation they've had have been appropriately private. Again, Kiwanuka was asked if he'd play at DE against the Redskins and he said no, preferring to let Tollefson take those snaps.
This is how a conversation should go. Not saying some bull**** like you'll be unemployed if you demand your respect. I haven't been unemployed in yrs and I own property and numerous vehicles and I never let ppl walk all over me or use me how they see fit. These are all opinions and unless you compare a real life football game with Madden or something ridiculous like that, nobody's opinion trumps the next person's. I used facts, Kiwi had his best yr playing DE as a fulltime starter in 2008... plain and simple.</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7sBTppJAXH3pU3zhZNRi-lpzBNBTTlZai5FxtKN3fAl4ioONa</P>


You're not hard to find huh? Tell me where you be at tough guy.</P>


lol...I knew you couldn't help it... Your goat has been got,</P>


I live in Syracuse NY. Follow the link at the bottom of my posts and that will show you where my band is playing on any given weekend. It will even show you what I look like. I look forward to it.</P>

RoanokeFan
09-17-2011, 08:20 PM
I agree except that I think Herz excels in coverage and Jones is more athletic and might be better suited covering the backs coming out of the backfield. Both LBers can easily be responsible depending on the play that's called but the SLB is more responsible for covering the flats.

As far as Kiwi, he should definitely have his hands in the dirt. <u>They're ruining his career having him out there in space.</u>

This. We are being unfair.

I think the late great comedian mitch hedburg addressed a similar situation:

You know im a comedian, and so people come up to me and say, oh your a comedian. Can you write? Write us a script?
Thats not fair man. Thats like you worked your arse off being a great chef, you know really slaved away at it, and somebody comes up and says oh your a great cook, can you farm?


In all honesty, it's nobody but Kiwi's fault and Kiwi's fault alone. I would never had accepted that role, especially when I know I got what it takes to be a great DE in the league.

Plenty of teams that could've used my services. It's one thing to be loyal and the ultimate team player but when that loyalty starts interfering with your legacy or your bank roll, then it's you alone who deserves the donkey tail and the bunny ears.

Has it ever occurred to any of us that they may be extending his playing life but not making him put his hand in the dirt which puts more pressure on his neck? His versatility is what makes him valuable to the team. He understands his role and we're a better team for it.


Maybe, but unlikely. There are always things going on that we cant see. What we can see is that he was pretty darn effective at DE. I dont think we have seen that at the LB position.

And isnt the biggest threat to his neck, freakin hitting people. Like big running backs or TE getting to that second level?


Since they cleared him to play, I don't know if there is a single concern dealing with hits. I do know, having had 85% of my disc at C4-5 removed, that having to lean forward and look up puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine. He is probably extending his playing life by not having to do that. Does that figure into their thinking, I have no idea. He was asked to switch before he was injured and he's done a decent enough job for them to rely on his continuing to play there.

There was a recent article in which Kiwanuka was asked about playing at DE if Tuck can't go and he said no, to let Tollefson get his turn.


Hmm interesting. Maybe he is too loyal for his own good.

I still think on just about any other team with a system like ours, he is DE started. Could the same be said about linebacker?


At DE, would he be starting with Tuck, Osi, and JPP playing? I'm not knocking Kiwanuka as a DE, but his versatility is what makes him valuable here.


No he wouldnt but that is kinda my point. Yes his "versatility" is what makes him have a job on <u>this </u>team. But as far as where his skills would be <u>best </u>utilized it would be at DE on another team. He showed flashes of exceptional talent at DE, we havent seen that at LB.

Wouldnt it be best for both parties if he was traded for a talented experienced LB. He gets to play where is best, and we get talent where we desperately need it.


Not being privy to any conversations the FO may have had with Kiwanuka, I don't know what would be best nor do I know this is not best. Whatever conversation they've had have been appropriately private. Again, Kiwanuka was asked if he'd play at DE against the Redskins and he said no, preferring to let Tollefson take those snaps.
This is how a conversation should go. Not saying some bull**** like you'll be unemployed if you demand your respect. I haven't been unemployed in yrs and I own property and numerous vehicles and I never let ppl walk all over me or use me how they see fit.

These are all opinions and unless you compare a real life football game with Madden or something ridiculous like that, nobody's opinion trumps the next person's. I used facts, Kiwi had his best yr playing DE as a fulltime starter in 2008... plain and simple.

I've never been unemployed so what does this all have to do with Kiwanuka? I don't know why anyone besides Kiwanuka is worried about his being a linebacker and it doesn't seem to bother him. As for facts, he was asked to play DE against the Redskins and declined. What ever could that mean, do you suppose?

FBomb
09-17-2011, 08:21 PM
burner, listen man, you've made several posts bashing eli. that made me pretty angry. but that didnt mean i'd just lose any control of myself or rationale. you trying to fight some one you've never met is hella lame. its an online mb, if you cant a)deal with another persons opinion or b) ignore some one who is trolling you (in this case fbomb) maybe you should just read the posts and comment a lot less until you can control your anger. there are always going to be people who try to get under your skin, mb or not, you going to fight every person who does? I'm not trying to be a ****, i actually think fbomb is trying to instigate you, and think he's being lame as well. does that mean I should try and fight him? we're all giants fans. this place is here for the sole reason of talking about giants football, unfortunately it doesnt always go down that way, but if you can't ignore some one then honestly maybe just take a lil break from posting. just my .2, and btw, the moderators have been very clear this place is to talk about football, any flame wars and they will take care of the problem. just bc me and u disagree about eli doesnt mean i want u to get banned or fbomb to get banned. keep it civil guys</P>


For the record....I was not "trolling" him. I responded to one of his posts in this threadand itwas relatively tame. He took it personally and the rest wasgravy. </P>

BurnerNYG
09-17-2011, 08:36 PM
burner, listen man, you've made several posts bashing eli. that made me pretty angry.
but that didnt mean i'd just lose any control of myself or rationale.

you trying to fight some one you've never met is hella lame. its an online mb, if you cant a)deal with another persons opinion or b) ignore some one who is trolling you (in this case fbomb) maybe you should just read the posts and comment a lot less until you can control your anger.

there are always going to be people who try to get under your skin, mb or not, you going to fight every person who does? I'm not trying to be a ****, i actually think fbomb is trying to instigate you, and think he's being lame as well. does that mean I should try and fight him?

we're all giants fans. this place is here for the sole reason of talking about giants football, unfortunately it doesnt always go down that way, but if you can't ignore some one then honestly maybe just take a lil break from posting. just my .2,

and btw, the moderators have been very clear this place is to talk about football, any flame wars and they will take care of the problem. just bc me and u disagree about eli doesnt mean i want u to get banned or fbomb to get banned. keep it civil guysI debate on these boards all the time and never do I call ppl out of their names like a child would unless they insult me 1st. How can you be on a football board and never talk about football unless some type of controversy is involved?

His presence is unnecessary but as long as he has lil minions and flunkies , he'll feel apart of something special. He doesn't faze me not one bit, I get a good laugh out of a 50 yr old bozo that thinks he's down with Megadeth. I'm entertained.

FBomb
09-17-2011, 08:38 PM
burner, listen man, you've made several posts bashing eli. that made me pretty angry. but that didnt mean i'd just lose any control of myself or rationale. you trying to fight some one you've never met is hella lame. its an online mb, if you cant a)deal with another persons opinion or b) ignore some one who is trolling you (in this case fbomb) maybe you should just read the posts and comment a lot less until you can control your anger. there are always going to be people who try to get under your skin, mb or not, you going to fight every person who does? I'm not trying to be a ****, i actually think fbomb is trying to instigate you, and think he's being lame as well. does that mean I should try and fight him? we're all giants fans. this place is here for the sole reason of talking about giants football, unfortunately it doesnt always go down that way, but if you can't ignore some one then honestly maybe just take a lil break from posting. just my .2, and btw, the moderators have been very clear this place is to talk about football, any flame wars and they will take care of the problem. just bc me and u disagree about eli doesnt mean i want u to get banned or fbomb to get banned. keep it civil guysI debate on these boards all the time and never do I call ppl out of their names like a child would unless they insult me 1st. How can you be on a football board and never talk about football unless some type of controversy is involved. His presence is unnecessary but as long as he has lil minions and flunkies , he'll feel apart of something special. He doesn't faze me not one bit, I get a good laugh out of a 50 yr old bozo that thinks he's down with Megadeth. I'm entertained.</P>


lol.....it shows.</P>


I defy ANYONE to go back and read my first couple of responses and say that I wasn't talking football and trying to get your goat. You took offense to something that wasn't meant to be offensive. After your massive over reaction I could no longer help myself.</P>


</P>

bearbryant
09-17-2011, 08:49 PM
Wow. I thought that I got excited about Giant Football. Well, I do, still. Kiwi showed his 1st round abilities as a rookie. The FO & Co showed its inabilities to get proper players for a football team. A lot of that going around now.

Mod_C
09-17-2011, 08:50 PM
OK, this thread has been officially hijacked and no longer resembles the point of the OP.