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View Full Version : Giants better unload on QBs that dive head first. They didn't on Rodgers.



bflo23
01-17-2012, 11:52 PM
Something that I noticed when Rodgers was flushed out and was getting pretty big yardage on his runs every time.... The Giants were simply tagging him when he was diving head first. Rodgers never slid. It was the big dive for couple more yards and the Giant defenders simply tagged him. I wanted the Giant defenders to hit him hard because they were allowed to when he dove head first. Rodgers got too comfy with his running and I wanted him to pay the price for running and think twice.

Alex Smith can also run pretty well. I don't want to see tag when he is diving head first. Tag if he gives himself up and slided. Unload on him if he does what Rodgers did.

SweetZombieJesus
01-18-2012, 02:00 AM
You saw the phantom roughing call on Osi. QBs are untouchable. Why add another 15 yards in penalties?

stormblue
01-18-2012, 02:16 AM
i must take this opportunity to point out that eli
slid like a sissy instead of putting his head down and getting a first down during that game.
i don't mind sliding as a general rule, but he slid 2 yards short of a first down when the closest defender was 4 yards away.
you gotta go for it when its necessary.

SweetZombieJesus
01-18-2012, 02:21 AM
i must take this opportunity to point out that eli
slid like a sissy instead of putting his head down and getting a first down during that game.
i don't mind sliding as a general rule, but he slid 2 yards short of a first down when the closest defender was 4 yards away.
you gotta go for it when its necessary.

I will take that 10 times out of 10 as opposed to sliding head first and fumbling the ball untouched, which Eli has done his entire career up to this year. We lost the first 2010 Eagles game that way and he coughed the ball up 2x on the winning Super Bowl drive.

BornLegend
01-18-2012, 02:22 AM
i must take this opportunity to point out that eli
slid like a sissy instead of putting his head down and getting a first down during that game.
i don't mind sliding as a general rule, but he slid 2 yards short of a first down when the closest defender was 4 yards away.
you gotta go for it when its necessary.Why risk an injury when you're in the lead? I was mad at him on the 1st drive when he could've easily ran for the 1st down but besides that, Eli is the LAST person to criticize about the game on Sunday.

GiantWarfare
01-18-2012, 02:25 AM
i must take this opportunity to point out that eli
slid like a sissy instead of putting his head down and getting a first down during that game.
i don't mind sliding as a general rule, but he slid 2 yards short of a first down when the closest defender was 4 yards away.
you gotta go for it when its necessary.

I will take that 10 times out of 10 as opposed to sliding head first and fumbling the ball untouched.


that or getting lit up and concussed/breaking ribs at the expense of the first down.

Though I do want our own players to make opposing QBs pay when running on us, especially going headfirst...

Diamondring
01-18-2012, 02:27 AM
i must take this opportunity to point out that eli
slid like a sissy instead of putting his head down and getting a first down during that game.
i don't mind sliding as a general rule, but he slid 2 yards short of a first down when the closest defender was 4 yards away.
you gotta go for it when its necessary.

I will take that 10 times out of 10 as opposed to sliding head first and fumbling the ball untouched, which Eli has done his entire career up to this year.* We lost the first 2010 Eagles game that way and he coughed the ball up 2x on the winning Super Bowl drive.
I'm with you.

a4gmen
01-18-2012, 08:39 AM
I agree.I certainly don't want Eli to put himself in jeopardy, but he easily could have gotten that 1st down.

bg79
01-18-2012, 09:00 AM
i must take this opportunity to point out that eli
slid like a sissy instead of putting his head down and getting a first down during that game.
i don't mind sliding as a general rule, but he slid 2 yards short of a first down when the closest defender was 4 yards away.
you gotta go for it when its necessary.Why risk an injury when you're in the lead? I was mad at him on the 1st drive when he could've easily ran for the 1st down but besides that, Eli is the LAST person to criticize about the game on Sunday.

It was a 3rd down for one, and it was a very tenuous lead at the time. It all worked out in the end but that very well couldve been one of those microscopic moments that really affected the game. I'd like to see Eli lower the shoulders and show that compete level while running that most QB's in the league have today, especially in the playoffs and especially when the 1st down is within reach on a 3rd down.

buddy33
01-18-2012, 09:04 AM
That play when Eli slid he had absolutely no chance of making a 1st down. That was a smart play and he made up some yards before the punt.

TuckYou
01-18-2012, 09:47 AM
There is no question in my mind we would fo been flagged for hitting him even if it was perfectly legal because he slid head first. It wouldnt of mattered. The Giants knew they were up against the refs as well. Im actually surprised they didnt get a flag for unneccessarily tagging Rodgers with too much force when he was down.

sausage
01-18-2012, 09:55 AM
They should have laid him out. there is a certain pompous arrogance in that he knows they are afraid to hit him. only way to keep him honest is to hit him when he does that. qbs either need to be forced to slide or there can be no penalties on the hits. you can't have it both ways or you wind up with a really twisted version of what the game is supposed to be.

miked1958
01-18-2012, 10:05 AM
You saw the phantom roughing call on Osi. QBs are untouchable. Why add another 15 yards in penalties?
</P>


Agreed. Just touch him down and go onto the next play. You dive at him and try and make a play and you get flagged. Especially with the way the Refs seem to be looking at every little thing the Giants do to try and give an advantage to the other team. Why give them a reason to throw a flag???</P>

stormblue
01-18-2012, 10:48 AM
i must take this opportunity to point out that eli
slid like a sissy instead of putting his head down and getting a first down during that game.
i don't mind sliding as a general rule, but he slid 2 yards short of a first down when the closest defender was 4 yards away.
you gotta go for it when its necessary.Why risk an injury when you're in the lead? I was mad at him on the 1st drive when he could've easily ran for the 1st down but besides that, Eli is the LAST person to criticize about the game on Sunday.

It was a 3rd down for one, and it was a very tenuous lead at the time.* It all worked out in the end but that very well couldve been one of those microscopic moments that really affected the game.* I'd like to see Eli lower the shoulders and show that compete level while running that most QB's in the league have today, especially in the playoffs and especially when the 1st down is within reach on a 3rd down.


that's all i'm saying.....i'm not asking him to go
"Tebow" , but ya gotta get the 1st down when its called for.
he is a football player and gets hammered in the pocket all the time. he's not made of balsa wood.he can get the 1st down.....then slide.

buffyblue
01-18-2012, 10:53 AM
Wow. Funny that you guys are now critisizing Eli Manning for not running for the first down. He would have taken a nice hit if he did that and if he was hurt I am sure that you folks would be complaining that he got hurt because he was greedy.

I bELIeve.

galaxy10
01-18-2012, 10:56 AM
Lets be honest guys. There are four QBs that always get the roughing the passer protection:

Brees, Rodgers, Brady Peyton Manning. The rest of the QBs take it in the chin. Eli is one of those. Did you see all the hits he took on Sunday. I remember two clearly should have been called. WTF

jomo
01-18-2012, 10:57 AM
I hate to take this tread back to the zebras but here goes.</P>


That roughing call on OSi was particularly poor given that Rodgers was GB's best rusher that day and is always a very elusive runnner. If Osi pulls off that legitimate tackly Rodgers could easily be off to the races. I need to get over this zebra angst I've got. On Goode's short list of things to fix in the off season, this is one of them. We need competance out there.</P>

RoanokeFan
01-18-2012, 10:59 AM
Something that I noticed when Rodgers was flushed out and was getting pretty big yardage on his runs every time.... The Giants were simply tagging him when he was diving head first. Rodgers never slid. It was the big dive for couple more yards and the Giant defenders simply tagged him. I wanted the Giant defenders to hit him hard because they were allowed to when he dove head first. Rodgers got too comfy with his running and I wanted him to pay the price for running and think twice.

Alex Smith can also run pretty well. I don't want to see tag when he is diving head first. Tag if he gives himself up and slided. Unload on him if he does what Rodgers did.


With the officiating crew throwing everything at the GIANTS, do you really think that was the answer?

Joe Morrison
01-18-2012, 11:05 AM
I hate to take this tread back to the zebras but here goes.</P>


That roughing call on OSi was particularly poor given that Rodgers was GB's best rusher that day and is always a very elusive runnner. If Osi pulls off that legitimate tackly Rodgers could easily be off to the races. I need to get over this zebra angst I've got. On Goode's short list of things to fix in the off season, this is one of them. We need competance out there.</P>


</P>


The rules are the rules, still think it was a bad call but if they are going to call it that way let's be consistent, Eli got much worse that day and got nothing.</P>


Hate to see a situation like BB had a few years back, get on these guys now, players get fined for stupid plays, time Refs had to buck up for their stupid calls.</P>

JMFP2
01-18-2012, 11:09 AM
You saw the phantom roughing call on Osi.* QBs are untouchable.* Why add another 15 yards in penalties?


This.

QBs can't be hit hard anymore.....that's the new Arena League Rules.

That's why as far as I'm concerned, Marino's passing record is more impressive than Brees'

peytonkrug
01-18-2012, 11:13 AM
I'll admit, when Eli ran for some yards and slid yards from the first down I went ballistic, screaming profanities at Eli, (as if he could hear me). My wife and son were pissed that I would be such a jerk. </P>


The next series I was apologizing to both my wife and son, and then Eli (as if he could hear me).</P>


He knows he's not a run threat. Why endanger the whole team, just "get the ball back" and ...you know the rest.</P>

G-Man67
01-18-2012, 11:20 AM
yeah i don't agree ... gotta look at the risk vs. return ... maybe in the regular season, but in the playoffs ... as we saw on the Osi NOT roughing ... a few plays later, they are in the end zone



in theory, a QB on the run should be treated like any other player, but having watched football for many years .... even before the flag football initiative we are seeing now ... a defender is far more likely to get an unnecessary roughness call when tackling a QB vs. any other player



what you do is attack the ball ... QBs can be easily stripped ... i saw us aggressively trying to strip the ball throughout the game vs. GB and we were successful vs. Grant and Jennings on the bad call ... Osi's strip of Rodgers was just his classic play

chasjay
01-18-2012, 11:21 AM
If the refs rule that the QB is "giving himself up", I think they can call the roughing penalty whether he's going head first or sliding feet first - I may be mistaken about that. One protection offered for sliding feet first is that there is no fumble if you lose the ball after hitting the ground - as we well know, it is a fumble if you dive head first and lose the ball.

I kept hoping someone would catch up to Rodgers just before he dove. I wanted to see us light him up, but not for a 15-yard penalty.

mitchmac
01-18-2012, 11:26 AM
Do Ineed to remind anyone in here that if Eli goes head first and gets hurt on that play thathisbackup has thrown exactly zero passes this season????

NYG 5
01-18-2012, 11:27 AM
eh, some plays he dove head first, and the defendes were so far away that if they did hit him it would be unnecessary roughness.

however, if he's still off the ground and the defender can hit him, they should take a shot on him. the defense did a good job of belting the packer receivers, if only they could get a little better at hitting quarterbacks.

but it isn't a major issue, they're putting hits on qbs in the pocket, i'll take that over the few times they tap a runner

buffyblue
01-18-2012, 11:27 AM
You forgot one in your list and that is Mike Vick. Dog killa has more roughing the passer calls made for him than any other QB in the last two seasons.

Eli Manning gets hit late all the time and doesn’t get the call. That is just the way it has always been and I doubt that it will ever change.

I bELIeve.

stormblue
01-18-2012, 11:54 AM
You saw the phantom roughing call on Osi.* QBs are untouchable.* Why add another 15 yards in penalties?


This.

QBs can't be hit hard anymore.....that's the new Arena League Rules.

That's why as far as I'm concerned, Marino's passing record is more impressive than Brees'

the only modern rule that was not in effect
during Marino's career is the one where you can't hit the QB at or below the knees.

roughing the passer , in the grasp , all that stuff was around when he played.

he was still in the league when they invented the tuck rule.

he played under modern rules which is how
he was able to overtake Tarkenton and others who did not have the benefit of these sissy rules.

Marino was a benefactor of the sissy rules.....
not a victim.

bflo23
01-18-2012, 11:54 AM
Aaron Rodgers: 7 rush for 66 yards (9.4 per carry). Dove head first every time for extra yards and just tagged by the Giants. Never once did he give himself up and slid.

Rule is that he is allowed to be hit when he is diving head first for few extra yards. Refs gonna call "roughing the passer" when he 10 yards down the field and diving head first? It isn't unnecessary roughness.

As for Eli, I know there was one play where Eli could have ran for the first down and he threw for incomplete. And there was another play that Eli ran and he slid like 5 yards short because there were like 3 defenders barreling on him. He would have been short like 3 yards if he went head to head with them.

stormblue
01-18-2012, 12:03 PM
Do I*need to remind anyone in here that if Eli goes head first and gets hurt on that* play that*his*backup has thrown exactly zero passes this season????*

c'mon....he's a QB....nobody is going to blow him up.....for the same reason we didn't blow up Rodgers......players are not that stupid.

actually he's more apt to catch a cleat and twist a leg or ankle than getting blown up.

Spedracer
01-18-2012, 12:07 PM
Yeah there was a point in the game where I wanted Rodgers decapitated. But then soon realized that the defense was probably being told to not lay a hit in those situations.

bflo23
01-18-2012, 12:20 PM
Do Ineed to remind anyone in here that if Eli goes head first and gets hurt on that play thathisbackup has thrown exactly zero passes this season????

c'mon....he's a QB....nobody is going to blow him up.....for the same reason we didn't blow up Rodgers......players are not that stupid.

actually he's more apt to catch a cleat and twist a leg or ankle than getting blown up.

There is a difference sliding feet first and diving head first.... About 5 yards difference per rush considering the refs stop QB when he starts his slide. When a QB is running, he is now a runner and isn't given the QB protection.

What is the penalty if the Giants hit a running QB that dives head first? Roughing the passer? NO! Late hit? No if timed correctly. Unnecessary roughness? No! Stopping a runner is necessary. QB isn't giving himself up and is alive and is gaining yards on that dive. Smith can dive head first and slide 10 yards on that wet soggy field unless the Giants make him pay. I am tired of QBs running without a worry. Rodgers and Smith can run so the Giants have to make QBs pay the price.

stormblue
01-18-2012, 12:53 PM
Do I*need to remind anyone in here that if Eli goes head first and gets hurt on that* play that*his*backup has thrown exactly zero passes this season????*

c'mon....he's a QB....nobody is going to blow him up.....for the same reason we didn't blow up Rodgers......players are not that stupid.

actually he's more apt to catch a cleat and twist a leg or ankle than getting blown up.

There is a difference sliding feet first and diving head first.... About 5 yards difference per rush considering the refs stop QB when he starts his slide. When a QB is running, he is now a runner and isn't given the QB protection.

What is the penalty if the Giants hit a running QB that dives head first? Roughing the passer? NO! Late hit? No if timed correctly. Unnecessary roughness? No! Stopping a runner is necessary. QB isn't giving himself up and is alive and is gaining yards on that dive. Smith can dive head first and slide 10 yards on that wet soggy field unless the Giants make him pay. I am tired of QBs running without a worry. Rodgers and Smith can run so the Giants have to make QBs pay the price.


i think your focus point is too narrow.
zoom out ......all the way out .....'till you see the owners discussing their 20 million dollar QB's
with the rules committee.
you can not sick the dogs on a QB across the line of scrimmage....slide or no slide , rule or no rule......the unwritten rule does not allow it.

we did not lay the wood to Rodgers because you are not supposed to.....regardless of the rules.

our problem is that ELI does not take advantage of it.....like other QB's around the league do.
nobody is going to blow him up....its not allowed.
and shouldn't be.

G-Man67
01-18-2012, 01:27 PM
i had absolutely no issue with Eli sliding there ... didnt even blink ... he woulda taken a huge hit if he tried to get the 1st and he most likely would have been short ... defenders would stopped him a good 2 yards short ... go root for Denver if you want to have a QB that takes on defenders no matter what

mitchmac
01-18-2012, 01:29 PM
That's ridiculous. What's it matter if he's across the line or not? How many times you see a DE make sure he lands on top of a QB with the full force of his290 lbs.? You think he's taking it easy on Mr. Moneybags??

bflo23
01-18-2012, 02:02 PM
i think your focus point is too narrow.
zoom out ......all the way out .....'till you see the owners discussing their 20 million dollar QB's
with the rules committee.
you can not sick the dogs on a QB across the line of scrimmage....slide or no slide , rule or no rule......the unwritten rule does not allow it.

we did not lay the wood to Rodgers because you are not supposed to.....regardless of the rules.

our problem is that ELI does not take advantage of it.....like other QB's around the league do.
nobody is going to blow him up....its not allowed.
and shouldn't be.

Unwritten rules? Answer this simple question..... What is the penalty for cleanly hitting a RUNNING QB that dives head first for a few yards?

jomo
01-18-2012, 04:11 PM
I hate to take this tread back to the zebras but here goes.</P>


That roughing call on OSi was particularly poor given that Rodgers was GB's best rusher that day and is always a very elusive runnner. If Osi pulls off that legitimate tackly Rodgers could easily be off to the races. I need to get over this zebra angst I've got. On Goode's short list of things to fix in the off season, this is one of them. We need competance out there.</P>


</P>


The rules are the rules, still think it was a bad call but if they are going to call it that way let's be consistent, Eli got much worse that day and got nothing.</P>


Hate to see a situation like BB had a few years back, get on these guys now, players get fined for stupid plays, time Refs had to buck up for their stupid calls.</P>That is a simpler and better way to look at it Joe. It simply wasn't unnecessary roughness or a blow to the head and shouldn't have been called.

RoanokeFan
01-18-2012, 04:14 PM
I hate to take this tread back to the zebras but here goes.</p>


That roughing call on OSi was particularly poor given that Rodgers was GB's best rusher that day and is always a very elusive runnner. If Osi pulls off that legitimate tackly Rodgers could easily be off to the races. I need to get over this zebra angst I've got. On Goode's short list of things to fix in the off season, this is one of them. We need competance out there.</p>


</p>


The rules are the rules, still think it was a bad call but if they are going to call it that way let's be consistent, Eli got much worse that day and got nothing.</p>


Hate to see a situation like BB had a few years back, get on these guys now, players get fined for stupid plays, time Refs had to buck up for their stupid calls.</p>That is a simpler and better way to look at it Joe. It simply wasn't unnecessary roughness or a blow to the head and shouldn't have been called.

+1

Gianthunter
01-18-2012, 04:21 PM
i think your focus point is too narrow. zoom out ......all the way out .....'till you see the owners discussing their 20 million dollar QB's with the rules committee. you can not sick the dogs on a QB across the line of scrimmage....slide or no slide , rule or no rule......the unwritten rule does not allow it. we did not lay the wood to Rodgers because you are not supposed to.....regardless of the rules. our problem is that ELI does not take advantage of it.....like other QB's around the league do. nobody is going to blow him up....its not allowed. and shouldn't be.

Unwritten rules? Answer this simple question..... What is the penalty for cleanly hitting a RUNNING QB that dives head first for a few yards?
Whens the last hit you've seen on a headfirst diving QB or RB for that matter?And what was the result?