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View Full Version : Is victor cruz a better route runner than steve smith?



Marvelousmik
11-01-2011, 09:36 PM
I remember when ap first came into the league, and from the moment he started playing good, i knew he was better than ladaminian tomlinson. However, because of LT's body of work, my friend didnt believe me and thought i was crazy for saying so.

So without looking at body of work., Who do you think is a better route runner between steve smith and cruz? I know for a fact smith didn't get this much separation when covered 1v1. Victor makes guys look silly 1v1, and i believe as long as he stays healthy, he will be one of the best slot guys in the nfl for years to come.
<h3 class="r">
</h3>The video below is a perfect example of how he makes defenders look when they cover him 1v1. He has been doing it all season.

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Week-8-Anatomy-Cruz-Game-Winner/24b7bc51-12b1-436c-86a0-a66bb3c99fe9


I dont even think revis can cover him 1v1 in the slot. Time will tell.

jomo
11-01-2011, 09:37 PM
Not close right now. Route running includes running the right route. Cruz isn't there yet. He is more explosive than Smith for sure and in the long run may prove to be better overall.

Overdrive92
11-01-2011, 09:38 PM
Not really, but he is better than Steve Smith at making miraculous, game-saving plays.

Itlan
11-01-2011, 09:42 PM
Smith was like a top 5 route runner lol. Cruz is nowhere near that. The only one who runs routes like Smith is probably Welker.<span style="display: none; position: absolute; overflow: hidden; max-width: 400px; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254); border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); padding: 4px 8px; font-size: 11px; letter-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); z-index: 5000; line-height: 120%; text-align: left; border-radius: 5px 5px 5px 5px;" id="xpndit_tooltip"></span>

Marvelousmik
11-01-2011, 09:43 PM
Not really, but he is better than Steve Smith at making miraculous, game-saving plays.

I have a feeling about this guy, and my intuition is usually right about players. I knew Adrianpeterson was going to be good the moment i saw him first run the ball. Same goes for kenny britt (even though hes injured) and shady mecoy. they all turned out pretty good, and i have a feeling cruz will too. watch.

nycsportzfan
11-01-2011, 09:51 PM
Not close right now. Route running includes running the right route. Cruz isn't there yet. He is more explosive than Smith for sure and in the long run may prove to be better overall. Its funny because at UMASS, Cruz wasen't really the explosive WR, but more the Slippery, route runner, who can beat u deep on occasion more then consistently, and also solid hands.. I think hes basically playing very idenctically to the type of WR he was for UMASS, and his route running is starting to show, with his EXP level getting up there.. Hes certainly showing the slipperieness and hands that i became accustomed to reading and seeing why he was at UMASS...

nycsportzfan
11-01-2011, 09:54 PM
Not really, but he is better than Steve Smith at making miraculous, game-saving plays.

I have a feeling about this guy, and my intuition is usually right about players. I knew Adrianpeterson was going to be good the moment i saw him first run the ball. Same goes for kenny britt (even though hes injured) and shady mecoy. they all turned out pretty good, and i have a feeling cruz will too. watch.
I'm with you on Kenny Britt.. I was called his Agent by most on here..lol Of course i ignored his Charechter concerns, but his skill is ridiculous.. Also, i called Victor Cruz the second we signed em as a UDF, being more familiar then most on here about him because UMASS is 45minutes from my front door.. I actually wrote a thread the day of the JETS preseason game titled "cruz breaks out in big way tonight"..lol Cruz is good, and u could see it at UMASS, that he had a solid build, good hands and the biggest question was if he was gonna be given a actual chance in the NFL or not, which alot of times dosen't happen for guys like him..

Marvelousmik
11-01-2011, 09:58 PM
Not really, but he is better than Steve Smith at making miraculous, game-saving plays.

I have a feeling about this guy, and my intuition is usually right about players. I knew Adrianpeterson was going to be good the moment i saw him first run the ball. Same goes for kenny britt (even though hes injured) and shady mecoy. they all turned out pretty good, and i have a feeling cruz will too. watch.
I'm with you on Kenny Britt.. I was called his Agent by most on here..lol Of course i ignored his Charechter concerns, but his skill is ridiculous.. Also, i called Victor Cruz the second we signed em as a UDF, being more familiar then most on here about him because UMASS is 45minutes from my front door.. I actually wrote a thread the day of the JETS preseason game titled "cruz breaks out in big way tonight"..lol Cruz is good, and u could see it at UMASS, that he had a solid build, good hands and the biggest question was if he was gonna be given a actual chance in the NFL or not, which alot of times dosen't happen for guys like him..


As soon as i saw mecoy play a few games, i knew he was better than brian westbrook. I am not one to look at body of work all that much. Right now i know cruz is better than steve smith. im going to bookmark this thread for obvious reasons. [;)]

ShakeNBake
11-01-2011, 09:59 PM
Not at this point. Steve Smith is a polished elite slot receiver when healthy. Cruz is still raw and makes mistakes but the potential is definitely there. Give him some time.

appodictic
11-01-2011, 10:10 PM
I think victor cruz is better then Steve Smith now. Cruz is pretty nuts in terms of breakout explosive games, he already has multiple 100 yard games.

GiantsFan27
11-01-2011, 10:12 PM
steve smith was one of the best route runners and slot receivers in the NFL.

however, he must've been the WORST wide receiver in the NFL when it came to YAC lol. i swear he'd get hit or fall down after every single catch. it was like it was just automatic for him not to gain any more yards. he also wasnt all that explosive on the outside or as a deep threat.

deenezy
11-01-2011, 10:27 PM
I also think cruz is better than ss right now,with time he will be elite, and in my mind should be in that 2nd wr spot very soon.

Vtgmenfan89
11-01-2011, 10:31 PM
Not really, but he is better than Steve Smith at making miraculous, game-saving plays.

I have a feeling about this guy, and my intuition is usually right about players. I knew Adrianpeterson was going to be good the moment i saw him first run the ball. Same goes for kenny britt (even though hes injured) and shady mecoy. they all turned out pretty good, and i have a feeling cruz will too. watch.


I'm with you there. I think he can become much better than Smith overall, because he's definitely got more speed and quickness, also makes just absolutely ridiculous plays fairly consistently. He says he ran between a 10-11 second 100 m dash in college track consistently, which is really goddamn fast. I mean olympians run sub 10's and 10-11 obviously isn't far off. I'm not sure what his 40 was at the combine which is what most people would connect to football, but he's fast. So he's got that on Smith, he just needs another year or two to perfect his route running, which even right now isn't that bad. I mean I know he wasn't going up against a real great corner or anything on that TD against Miami, but it was well done getting the DB turned around and knowing when to cut inside to create that seperation. So he is catching on, just has to become more consistent.

CGYgiant
11-01-2011, 10:35 PM
I remember when ap first came into the league, and from the moment he started playing good, i knew he was better than ladaminian tomlinson. However, because of LT's body of work, my friend didnt believe me and thought i was crazy for saying so.

So without looking at body of work., Who do you think is a better route runner between steve smith and cruz? I know for a fact smith didn't get this much separation when covered 1v1. Victor makes guys look silly 1v1, and i believe as long as he stays healthy, he will be one of the best slot guys in the nfl for years to come.
<h3 class="r">
</h3>The video below is a perfect example of how he makes defenders look when they cover him 1v1. He has been doing it all season.

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Week-8-Anatomy-Cruz-Game-Winner/24b7bc51-12b1-436c-86a0-a66bb3c99fe9


I dont even think revis can cover him 1v1 in the slot. Time will tell.


No. Although he can catch the ball down field, something Smith wishes he was capable of doing.

krygny
11-01-2011, 10:40 PM
Steve Smith was a great possession receiver. Let's not forget that. (It's unfair to compare him to Welker who is one of the best ever in that role.) Cruz has a ways to go before he gets to where Smith was two seasons ago. He might. And I don't think Smith will ever be the same.

Joe Morrison
11-01-2011, 10:42 PM
Not only Steve Smith the ex Giant, Steve Smith with Carolina and Gerry Rice!</P>


He's got a long way to go but we are enjoying it for now.</P>

giantsfan420
11-01-2011, 10:42 PM
hey mik, i dunno what your remembering but smith got more seperation than a lot of the so called elite wr's.

he ran that double move perfectly time and time again like he'd make a move to show an out then when the db turns to run w him, smithdoes a lil shimmy and double moves back inside.

smith absolutely got a lot of seperation, w that said, i think cruz in time will be better than smith at route running, he already is more elusive and gets a ton of YAC, so in some aspects cruz is better than smith but he still has a ways to go before we can say he runs routes better than smith imo.

GiantsFan27
11-01-2011, 10:57 PM
he ran that double move perfectly time and time again like he'd make a move to show an out then when the db turns to run w him, smithdoes a lil shimmy and double moves back inside.

.

lol yea they ran that play quite a lot where smith faked an out route and went across the middle. it was indeed a sick double move especially the one he did for a TD in 09 vs the cowboys against orlando scandrick that pretty much broke his ankles.

BigBlue1971
11-01-2011, 10:58 PM
at this point Cruz is not a better route runner than Smith. </P>


heis certainly more athletic and he has the natural ability to use that athleticism to his advantage without much effort.</P>


that ability permits him to get intointo positionswhere it appears easier for him to adjust to the ball.</P>


he also has a knack forpicking up the ball in flight! i think Cruz is a natural for his position.</P>


imo he will eventually run better routes. </P>


in three years, Cruz and <FONT size=1>Smith</FONT> wontbe mentioned in the same conversation. </P>

Marvelousmik
11-01-2011, 11:01 PM
hey mik, i dunno what your remembering but smith got more seperation than a lot of the so called elite wr's.

he ran that double move perfectly time and time again like he'd make a move to show an out then when the db turns to run w him, smithdoes a lil shimmy and double moves back inside.

smith absolutely got a lot of seperation, w that said, i think cruz in time will be better than smith at route running, he already is more elusive and gets a ton of YAC, so in some aspects cruz is better than smith but he still has a ways to go before we can say he runs routes better than smith imo.

fair enough but if you ask me, i think cruz is a harder reciever to cover now, than smith ever was

AGiantDynasty
11-01-2011, 11:32 PM
Why cant fans just leave well enough alone?

We lost Smith and Cruz got a chance. He is now succeeding and taking advantage of it. Cruz is a ridiculously explosive player.. But he is also very raw and makes mistakes all over the field (route running, catching etc).

Smith, when healthy, is in the top 3 in route running precision WR's. Cruz doesnt break top 20.. Yet.

JMFP2
11-02-2011, 12:09 AM
I remember when ap first came into the league, and from the moment he started playing good, i knew he was better than ladaminian tomlinson. However, because of LT's body of work, my friend didnt believe me and thought i was crazy for saying so.

So without looking at body of work., Who do you think is a better route runner between steve smith and cruz? I know for a fact smith didn't get this much separation when covered 1v1. Victor makes guys look silly 1v1, and i believe as long as he stays healthy, he will be one of the best slot guys in the nfl for years to come.

<H3 class=r>
</H3>


The video below is a perfect example of how he makes defenders look when they cover him 1v1. He has been doing it all season.

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Week-8-Anatomy-Cruz-Game-Winner/24b7bc51-12b1-436c-86a0-a66bb3c99fe9


I dont even think revis can cover him 1v1 in the slot. Time will tell.
</P>


</P>


I like Cruz alot....but Steve Smith helped the Giants win a Super Bowl. Cruz has alot more work to do.</P>


I think comparing Cruz to Smith is mainly an emotional thing....because the stats just aren't close yet.</P>


But again, really happy to have Cruz....he's really helped to wipe the bitter taste out of my mouth over how everything went down.</P>

deenezy
11-02-2011, 12:18 AM
just watched a few of cruz's highlights,he just as good runnining routes he oviously faster,more esplosive yac, and more elusive = overall better wr right now and getting better

Marvelousmik
11-02-2011, 12:26 AM
I remember when ap first came into the league, and from the moment he started playing good, i knew he was better than ladaminian tomlinson. However, because of LT's body of work, my friend didnt believe me and thought i was crazy for saying so.

So without looking at body of work., Who do you think is a better route runner between steve smith and cruz? I know for a fact smith didn't get this much separation when covered 1v1. Victor makes guys look silly 1v1, and i believe as long as he stays healthy, he will be one of the best slot guys in the nfl for years to come.

<h3 class="r">
</h3>


The video below is a perfect example of how he makes defenders look when they cover him 1v1. He has been doing it all season.

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Week-8-Anatomy-Cruz-Game-Winner/24b7bc51-12b1-436c-86a0-a66bb3c99fe9


I dont even think revis can cover him 1v1 in the slot. Time will tell.
</p>


</p>


I like Cruz alot....but Steve Smith helped the Giants win a Super Bowl. Cruz has alot more work to do.</p>


I think comparing Cruz to Smith is mainly an emotional thing....because the stats just aren't close yet.</p>


But again, really happy to have Cruz....he's really helped to wipe the bitter taste out of my mouth over how everything went down.</p>

lol thats why i said forget looking at their body of work. if you look at body of work, then technically domnic hixon is a better receiver. he has done more for this organization than cruz has. Body of work only shows what you've done in the past. it doesnt show who is better. right now jimmy gram is better than antonio gates, but gates has done way more in his career.

I feel cruz is better than smith.

BurnerNYG
11-02-2011, 12:29 AM
Put it like this... "Cruz is gonna be a very rich man". If you know what I mean.

Diamondring
11-02-2011, 12:47 AM
A player with the ball is different than a player who doesn't have the ball. Also How quick the receiver gets the ball in his hands is important to. When BJ dropped the screen pass against the Dolphins, he tried to turn around before he had the ball. Some receivers are able to get the ball quickly then make a move.

I think that Cruz is able to make moves and get the ball quicker than Smith. Like I have said before, a player with the ball is different than the player who doesn't have the ball. This means that Smith is not a good runner after the catch while Cruz can make moves once he gets the ball in his clutches.

BlueSanta
11-02-2011, 01:29 AM
No, he isnt a batter route runner. But he is way better after the catch. He is also more of a deep threat

Roswell777
11-02-2011, 01:53 AM
Football excellence is usually very transient. VCruz has played all of seven games and has made some big plays so right at this moment we can say he is better than SSmith.

That being said, let's not forget how good we all felt SSmith was for the last four years for the Giants. Because he was great on third down.

The Giants haven't had a third down option as effective as SSmith since Dave Meggett.

JMFP2
11-02-2011, 02:27 AM
I remember when ap first came into the league, and from the moment he started playing good, i knew he was better than ladaminian tomlinson. However, because of LT's body of work, my friend didnt believe me and thought i was crazy for saying so.

So without looking at body of work., Who do you think is a better route runner between steve smith and cruz? I know for a fact smith didn't get this much separation when covered 1v1. Victor makes guys look silly 1v1, and i believe as long as he stays healthy, he will be one of the best slot guys in the nfl for years to come.

<H3 class=r>
</H3>


The video below is a perfect example of how he makes defenders look when they cover him 1v1. He has been doing it all season.

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Week-8-Anatomy-Cruz-Game-Winner/24b7bc51-12b1-436c-86a0-a66bb3c99fe9


I dont even think revis can cover him 1v1 in the slot. Time will tell.
</P>


</P>


I like Cruz alot....but Steve Smith helped the Giants win a Super Bowl. Cruz has alot more work to do.</P>


I think comparing Cruz to Smith is mainly an emotional thing....because the stats just aren't close yet.</P>


But again, really happy to have Cruz....he's really helped to wipe the bitter taste out of my mouth over how everything went down.</P>




lol thats why i said forget looking at their body of work. if you look at body of work, then technically domnic hixon is a better receiver. he has done more for this organization than cruz has. Body of work only shows what you've done in the past. it doesnt show who is better. right now jimmy gram is better than antonio gates, but gates has done way more in his career.

I feel cruz is better than smith.
</P>


Too early to tell....and until Cruz puts together a complete season, I'm not going to compare him to Smith.</P>

Marvelousmik
11-02-2011, 02:30 AM
I remember when ap first came into the league, and from the moment he started playing good, i knew he was better than ladaminian tomlinson. However, because of LT's body of work, my friend didnt believe me and thought i was crazy for saying so.

So without looking at body of work., Who do you think is a better route runner between steve smith and cruz? I know for a fact smith didn't get this much separation when covered 1v1. Victor makes guys look silly 1v1, and i believe as long as he stays healthy, he will be one of the best slot guys in the nfl for years to come.

<h3 class="r">
</h3>


The video below is a perfect example of how he makes defenders look when they cover him 1v1. He has been doing it all season.

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Week-8-Anatomy-Cruz-Game-Winner/24b7bc51-12b1-436c-86a0-a66bb3c99fe9


I dont even think revis can cover him 1v1 in the slot. Time will tell.
</p>


</p>


I like Cruz alot....but Steve Smith helped the Giants win a Super Bowl. Cruz has alot more work to do.</p>


I think comparing Cruz to Smith is mainly an emotional thing....because the stats just aren't close yet.</p>


But again, really happy to have Cruz....he's really helped to wipe the bitter taste out of my mouth over how everything went down.</p>




lol thats why i said forget looking at their body of work. if you look at body of work, then technically domnic hixon is a better receiver. he has done more for this organization than cruz has. Body of work only shows what you've done in the past. it doesnt show who is better. right now jimmy gram is better than antonio gates, but gates has done way more in his career.

I feel cruz is better than smith.
</p>


Too early to tell....and until Cruz puts together a complete season, I'm not going to compare him to Smith.</p>

on that note i feel you

nycsportzfan
11-02-2011, 07:37 AM
No, he isnt a batter route runner. But he is way better after the catch. He is also more of a deep threat
Ya, he could on occasion get deep in college, but was more of a route runner, slippery, solidly built, break a tackle for a couple extra yards player.. For instance, in his biggest yr at Umass which was 2008, he had one 69yrd catch, but other then that, he didn't even have a 40yrder on the yr, in a explosive offense.. He was the type that would have like 8catch 81yrd 1td games... I love those type of WR's, who are in on alot of plays, and don't need just one freak deep ball catch to be productive.. I really love cruz's game.. Hes definetly got similaritys to Smiths game, thats for sure, and smith could on occasion sneak deep on ya as well, not 90yrd TD deep, but 50yrder here and there type deep..

deenezy
11-08-2011, 02:48 PM
where are ppl getting this info that cruz is making mistakes all over the field,please point it out so I can research it. I record every game,and can't see all these mistakes, other than that debackle in Arizona I don't see all these mistakes

ny06
11-08-2011, 02:49 PM
Cruz is not there yet. </P>


Before the injury, Steve Smith was one of the best route runners in the league. </P>


</P>

allentown PA
11-08-2011, 02:51 PM
route running is the only thing smith has on cruz imo...speed, hands, and yards after the catch go to Cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuz

burier
11-08-2011, 02:53 PM
Im guessing Victor Cruz is a much better person than Steve Smith at this point so we can leave it at that.

JMFP2
11-08-2011, 03:27 PM
They each have different qualities.</P>


Smith is (was) a preciseroute runner, whereas Cruz shows tremendous tenacity going for the ball, and after the catch</P>


I'm thrilled with how Cruz has stepped up this season, but it's stilltoo early to compare Cruz to Smith, IMHO.</P>

G-Stan
11-08-2011, 04:32 PM
Why keep kocking Steve to prove to yourself that Cruz is better? Steve had to have done something right if there are always comparisons to him.

bigbluefan1986
11-08-2011, 04:36 PM
I have not watched the routes to judge who is a better route runner, but truth be told I feel cruz in his small body of work is a better player than steve smith is or ever could peak to be.. I am glad things worked out the way they did.. Cruz plays hard and is a playmaker.. Smith just had a knack fro moving the chains which is nice to, but give me the playmaker. chainmovers are born everyday. IMO

RoanokeFan
11-08-2011, 04:39 PM
Smith is Smith and Cruz is Cruz. For an 8 game veteran he has learned a great deal in terms of pre-snap reads which is what Gilbride was screaming about in pre-season. Victor has skill sets Smith doesn't and he's only going to get better. Given we have Nicks and Manningham, the fact that Cruz is leading in total yards should be an indication that he's going to be a great receiver.

On Sunday he was covered like a blanket and I was really surprised that he still have the most catches and for most yards in the game.

I'm just glad he's here.

jomo
11-08-2011, 04:43 PM
Why keep kocking Steve to prove to yourself that Cruz is better? Steve had to have done something right if there are always comparisons to him.Correct! You don't become known as "third and Smith" for no reason. They are each their own guy and receiver and we should leave it at that.

myles2424
11-08-2011, 04:49 PM
588 yards so far, I'll go in record & say Cruz breaks 1000 yards this season...

SweetZombieJesus
11-08-2011, 04:53 PM
No, Steve Smith was a crisp route runner and had a great nose for the ball and spatial awareness.

However, Victor Cruz has an unnatural spatial awareness and hands of flypaper.

Marvelousmik
12-06-2011, 11:23 AM
I made sure i saved this thread to my favorites because i knew id have to bring it back up one of these days.

to those of you who said no about cruz being the better route runner, are you having second thoughts yet?

bigbluefan1986
12-06-2011, 11:26 AM
victor cruz is a much better route running than steve smith, thats one of the many areas he is better than steve smith... steve smith never got as open as cruz does..

bleedinblue27
12-06-2011, 11:57 AM
without a doubt!!
Victor Cruz REC YDS TD
62 1,076 7
speed- Cruz ran a 4.47 40 at his pro day

Steve Smith - best year REC YDS TD
102 1220 7
speed- Smith ran a 4.48 40 at his pro day

4 game left 83 yards per game will beat Steves numbers
YAC is what is so big for Cruz, he a great breakaway player

Marvelousmik
12-06-2011, 12:02 PM
without a doubt!!
Victor Cruz REC YDS TD
62 1,076 7
speed- Cruz ran a 4.47 40 at his pro day

Steve Smith - best year REC YDS TD
102 1220 7
speed- Smith ran a 4.48 40 at his pro day

4 game left 83 yards per game will beat Steves numbers
YAC is what is so big for Cruz, he a great breakaway player

lol smith must of had a great 40 that day. but yeah. i think its pretty obvious now if it wasnt obvious before. im constantly seeing cruz get open and im always seeing him make defenders look silly out there when he goes in and out of his breaks.

Here is my bold prediction.

cruz &gt; d jack. watch

RoanokeFan
12-06-2011, 12:04 PM
The numbers are what count. Too early to tell about the route running as Cruz lost his first year to Tynes ankle. But his pre-snap reads have been better and there are no complaints about his ability to get separation.

JMFP2
12-06-2011, 12:06 PM
without a doubt!!
Victor Cruz REC YDS TD
62 1,076 7
speed- Cruz ran a 4.47 40 at his pro day

Steve Smith - best year REC YDS TD
102 1220 7
speed- Smith ran a 4.48 40 at his pro day

4 game left 83 yards per game will beat Steves numbers
YAC is what is so big for Cruz, he a great breakaway player

lol smith must of had a great 40 that day. but yeah. i think its pretty obvious now if it wasnt obvious before. im constantly seeing cruz get open and im always seeing him make defenders look silly out there when he goes in and out of his breaks.

Here is my bold prediction.

cruz > d jack.** watch


Right now, I'd take Cruz over DJackson any day of the week. Jackson has a terrible attitude, and is a one trick pony.....granted, that one trick is pretty damn good, but if I were a QB, I'd look for Cruz before Jackson.

Raptor22
12-06-2011, 12:10 PM
without a doubt!!
Victor Cruz REC YDS TD
62 1,076 7
speed- Cruz ran a 4.47 40 at his pro day

Steve Smith - best year REC YDS TD
102 1220 7
speed- Smith ran a 4.48 40 at his pro day

4 game left 83 yards per game will beat Steves numbers
YAC is what is so big for Cruz, he a great breakaway player

lol smith must of had a great 40 that day. but yeah. i think its pretty obvious now if it wasnt obvious before. im constantly seeing cruz get open and im always seeing him make defenders look silly out there when he goes in and out of his breaks.

Here is my bold prediction.

cruz &gt; d jack. watch


That's not very bold... Cruz showed up 2 games in a row.

djax&lt;djax.

however, on topic:

a HEALTHY SS12 is probably the best route runner in the league. His agility, awareness, hands, and chemistry with Eli were just unreal. Honestly, the only area of his game that is lacking is YAC. But, as a move-the-chains, keep the drive going receiver, he's certainly top 2 (with Welker). He didn't really need YAC, because he made sure he had the 1st down the first time.

However, in the long run, Cruz is the better wideout.

I wanna see more of Barden in the slot, however. He's smart enough to run routes like SS12, but he has physical tools of Plax, and he doesn't dog it when the ball isn't going his way.

Marvelousmik
12-06-2011, 12:13 PM
The numbers are what count. Too early to tell about the route running as Cruz lost his first year to Tynes ankle. But his pre-snap reads have been better and there are no complaints about his ability to get separation.


did you see how he made the defender fall during one of his routes on sunday? ive seen him do that a few times this year.

one thing is for certain though. he definitely deserves to be in the pro bowl if he keeps this up

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 12:20 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize

not only has he become fantastic at catching a defender flat footed and sitting him down......but he has done very well at re routing to green pastures

he is amazing against zone coverage ...just has a knack for finding soft spots.....and is also a nightmare for man coverage...he consistently has defenders doing pirouettes

we scored gold with this kid

as for the original Smith question....

I think he has more dimensions as a player than Smith ...which makes him more dangerous.....

if he learns to look the ball in and make more consistent catches he will surpass Smith in my eyes

the dude is on pace to break Giants receiving records.....just as Smith did

burier
12-06-2011, 12:24 PM
At this point I'd say Cruz is a better PLAYER.

Steve Smith was a strong possession reciever.

Cruz does that AND makes huge clutch plays.

Cruz is so cool. After many of us waited a whole year for him to get on the field he totally lit it up

RoanokeFan
12-06-2011, 12:26 PM
The numbers are what count. Too early to tell about the route running as Cruz lost his first year to Tynes ankle. But his pre-snap reads have been better and there are no complaints about his ability to get separation.


did you see how he made the defender fall during one of his routes on sunday? ive seen him do that a few times this year.

one thing is for certain though. he definitely deserves to be in the pro bowl if he keeps this up


There was, in one of yesterday's news articles, a mention of his being a Pro Bowl caliber WR. The person making the comment was on the Packers [:)]

yoeddy
12-06-2011, 12:27 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

JMFP2
12-06-2011, 12:27 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize

not only has he become fantastic at catching a defender flat footed and sitting him down......but he has done very well at re routing to green pastures

he is amazing against zone coverage ...just has a knack for finding soft spots.....and is also a nightmare for man coverage...he consistently has defenders doing pirouettes

we scored gold with this kid

as for the original Smith question....

I think he has more dimensions as a player than Smith ...which makes him more dangerous.....

if he learns to look the ball in and make more consistent catches he will surpass Smith in my eyes

the dude is on pace to break Giants receiving records.....just as Smith did

Well said.

I think a healthy Smith was tremendous at what he did. He was the best Giant's possession receiver that I ever saw.

But Cruz is simply a bigger playmaker....he's the type of player that defenses have to account for on every play, because he can catch the bomb, or the short pass, and YAC it to the house.

Also, he is much more aggressive for the ball than Smith....there have been a few big plays (eg., Eagles Game 1) when Cruz basically outfought the defender for a jump ball.

RoanokeFan
12-06-2011, 12:30 PM
At this point I'd say Cruz is a better PLAYER.

Steve Smith was a strong possession reciever.

Cruz does that AND makes huge clutch plays.

Cruz is so cool. After many of us waited a whole year for him to get on the field he totally lit it up

I think Manningham said it best at the beginning of the season. I can't quote him but he was asked about comparing Cruz to Smith and he said Cruz gets separation before the catch and then YAC where when Smith made the catch, that's where he went down. He made a point of saying he wasn't dissing Smith, it just was what it was.

Again, that's my recollection of what he said and it was discussed here at the time.

RoanokeFan
12-06-2011, 12:32 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize

not only has he become fantastic at catching a defender flat footed and sitting him down......but he has done very well at re routing to green pastures

he is amazing against zone coverage ...just has a knack for finding soft spots.....and is also a nightmare for man coverage...he consistently has defenders doing pirouettes

we scored gold with this kid

as for the original Smith question....

I think he has more dimensions as a player than Smith ...which makes him more dangerous.....

if he learns to look the ball in and make more consistent catches he will surpass Smith in my eyes

the dude is on pace to break Giants receiving records.....just as Smith did

Let's start taking up a collection so we don't run into CAP issues. We cannot afford to lose Victor to team finances. [;)]

Marvelousmik
12-06-2011, 12:40 PM
At this point I'd say Cruz is a better PLAYER.

Steve Smith was a strong possession reciever.

Cruz does that AND makes huge clutch plays.

Cruz is so cool. After many of us waited a whole year for him to get on the field he totally lit it up

I think Manningham said it best at the beginning of the season. I can't quote him but he was asked about comparing Cruz to Smith and he said Cruz gets separation before the catch and then YAC where when Smith made the catch, that's where he went down. He made a point of saying he wasn't dissing Smith, it just was what it was.

Again, that's my recollection of what he said and it was discussed here at the time.


i remember him saying something like that yes. smith makes people look silly before the catch and cruz makes them look silly after the catch. but i think cruz does both better. and im not trying to bash smith. i just like my players to get the recognition they deserve.

as far as the packer defender saying cruz should make the probowl, im proud to hear that [;)]

Marvelousmik
12-06-2011, 12:42 PM
if he learns to look the ball in and make more consistent catches

This is the only downfall. and its easily fixed. I dont know why he still does it though. hopefully next year it stops. nicks used to drop a lot of easy balls his first couple years and he toned it down.

RoanokeFan
12-06-2011, 12:45 PM
At this point I'd say Cruz is a better PLAYER.

Steve Smith was a strong possession reciever.

Cruz does that AND makes huge clutch plays.

Cruz is so cool. After many of us waited a whole year for him to get on the field he totally lit it up

I think Manningham said it best at the beginning of the season. I can't quote him but he was asked about comparing Cruz to Smith and he said Cruz gets separation before the catch and then YAC where when Smith made the catch, that's where he went down. He made a point of saying he wasn't dissing Smith, it just was what it was.

Again, that's my recollection of what he said and it was discussed here at the time.


i remember him saying something like that yes. smith makes people look silly before the catch and cruz makes them look silly after the catch. but i think cruz does both better. and im not trying to bash smith. i just like my players to get the recognition they deserve.

as far as the packer defender saying cruz should make the probowl, im proud to hear that [;)]




Actually, the player, whose name escapes me, made the comment before the game when asked about his own preparation for the game.

giantman8493
12-06-2011, 12:47 PM
the question should not be cruz vs steve smith. It should be Is cruz the best wr on the team over Nicks...

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 12:49 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

RoanokeFan
12-06-2011, 12:51 PM
the question should not be cruz vs steve smith. It should be Is cruz the best wr on the team over Nicks...

The coverage Nicks gets dictates he's the better receiver right now and it also has helped Cruz get his numbers where they are. Still, he has a LOT of talent and it only playing in his first regular season. Assuming we have them both next season, WATCH OUT!

Marvelousmik
12-06-2011, 01:01 PM
anyone saw this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ6APBTw_ao

BlueJayC
12-06-2011, 01:15 PM
Glad this thread popped back up......was going to write one similar......Cruz's route running is impeccable....not only does he run them clean but he runs them hard and fast.....and better yet as others have mentioned his ability to "help" Eli out by either coming back to the ballor finding an open spot if the original route is not there is phenomenal.....whereas numerous other WR's in this league give up* on a play when the QB doesn't look their way (ala DeSean Jackson) Cruz never stops.</P>


*Give Up - not to be confused with givingone's selfup as he did in AZ......</P>


Smith had the same ability to find the open spots in zones and run great routesbut more importantly, though he playedvery good his rookie season,he had a couple seasons to build the comradery with Eli whereas Cruz and Eli are JUST starting to hit their stride together making them a very dangerous combo going forward.</P>

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 01:19 PM
Glad this thread popped back up......was going to write one similar......Cruz's route running is impeccable....not only does he run them clean but he runs them hard and fast.....and better yet as others have mentioned his ability to "help" Eli out by either coming back to the ball*or finding an open spot if the original route is not there is phenomenal.....whereas numerous other WR's in this league give up* on a play when the QB doesn't look their way (ala DeSean Jackson) Cruz never stops.</P>


*Give Up - not to be confused with giving*one's self*up as he did in AZ......</P>


Smith had the same ability to find the open spots in zones and run great routes*but more importantly, though he played*very good his rookie season,*he had a couple seasons to build the comradery with Eli whereas Cruz and Eli are JUST starting to hit their stride together making them a very dangerous combo going forward.</P>

very well said....

when most WR may feel they have done their part on a particular snap and simply live for the next one.....ala Jackson as you said......our very own Victor Cruz fights until the echo of the whistle for his QB

this kid has the heart that only an undrafted FA with something to prove can have

he runs his routes with conviction and never looks where he is going....unlike many young WR

yoeddy
12-06-2011, 01:20 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 01:37 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

its part of every NFL teams system

what im talking about is when he is not assigned an adjustment and doesnt give up on a play

yoeddy
12-06-2011, 02:09 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

its part of every NFL teams system

what im talking about is when he is not assigned an adjustment and doesnt give up on a play

How do you know when he hasn't been assigned an adjustment?

I agree that not giving up on a play is great...but still think it's what you should expect from an NFL receiver (and not a "isn't it wonderful?" kind of thing)...

Spizi
12-06-2011, 02:26 PM
the question should not be cruz vs steve smith. It should be Is cruz the best wr on the team over Nicks...

No.

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 02:34 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

its part of every NFL teams system

what im talking about is when he is not assigned an adjustment and doesnt give up on a play

How do you know when he hasn't been assigned an adjustment?

I agree that not giving up on a play is great...but still think it's what you should expect from an NFL receiver (and not a "isn't it wonderful?" kind of thing)...

when watching in person it is extremely simple to the educated eye to tell who has an adjustment and who does not ....its blatantly obvious actually

but since we are talking about it....even when he is assigned an adjustment he has adjusted beautifully as of late and has surpassed Manningham in my opinion in that area

but there are many times per game where Victor will get to his routes destination ....(when not assigned an adjustment).....look back at Eli and run to green grass

Im gathering that you dont understand how many receivers in this league just run their route and if it doesnt open up then oh well...next snap.....ala Desean Jackson and countless others

this is something that puts Cruz in the upper echelon of receivers in the game who are first willing ...and then able...to get open when what was drawn up doesnt go as planned

yoeddy
12-06-2011, 02:46 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

its part of every NFL teams system

what im talking about is when he is not assigned an adjustment and doesnt give up on a play

How do you know when he hasn't been assigned an adjustment?

I agree that not giving up on a play is great...but still think it's what you should expect from an NFL receiver (and not a "isn't it wonderful?" kind of thing)...

when watching in person it is extremely simple to the educated eye to tell who has an adjustment and who does not ....its blatantly obvious actually

but since we are talking about it....even when he is assigned an adjustment he has adjusted beautifully as of late and has surpassed Manningham in my opinion in that area

but there are many times per game where Victor will get to his routes destination ....(when not assigned an adjustment).....look back at Eli and run to green grass

Im gathering that you dont understand how many receivers in this league just run their route and if it doesnt open up then oh well...next snap.....ala Desean Jackson and countless others

this is something that puts Cruz in the upper echelon of receivers in the game who are first willing ...and then able...to get open when what was drawn up doesnt go as planned

No...I do understand it, and I also understand that Gilbride's system requires multiple levels of adjustments to be made (more levels than most, and much of it based on the QB getting protection for 5-6 seconds). And I do watch the receivers when I'm at the stadium (4 times per year). I also understand that the West Coast Offense that teams like the Eagles run that those 2nd and 3rd level adjustments aren't needed because the system is built around the QB making a quick decision based on only a handful of options on each play.

The fact that Cruz plays to the whistle (and not just finishes his route and then stops) is something that I would expect from any starting WR in the NFL. I agree that he's special...but not for the reason you are citing here...

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 03:07 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

its part of every NFL teams system

what im talking about is when he is not assigned an adjustment and doesnt give up on a play

How do you know when he hasn't been assigned an adjustment?

I agree that not giving up on a play is great...but still think it's what you should expect from an NFL receiver (and not a "isn't it wonderful?" kind of thing)...

when watching in person it is extremely simple to the educated eye to tell who has an adjustment and who does not ....its blatantly obvious actually

but since we are talking about it....even when he is assigned an adjustment he has adjusted beautifully as of late and has surpassed Manningham in my opinion in that area

but there are many times per game where Victor will get to his routes destination ....(when not assigned an adjustment).....look back at Eli and run to green grass

Im gathering that you dont understand how many receivers in this league just run their route and if it doesnt open up then oh well...next snap.....ala Desean Jackson and countless others

this is something that puts Cruz in the upper echelon of receivers in the game who are first willing ...and then able...to get open when what was drawn up doesnt go as planned

No...I do understand it, and I also understand that Gilbride's system requires multiple levels of adjustments to be made (more levels than most, and much of it based on the QB getting protection for 5-6 seconds). And I do watch the receivers when I'm at the stadium (4 times per year). I also understand that the West Coast Offense that teams like the Eagles run that those 2nd and 3rd level adjustments aren't needed because the system is built around the QB making a quick decision based on only a handful of options on each play.

The fact that Cruz plays to the whistle (and not just finishes his route and then stops) is something that I would expect from any starting WR in the NFL. I agree that he's special...but not for the reason you are citing here...


there are obvious situations where Cruz route has peaked and he extends the play

and I love how yr telling me that because Jackson doesnt have multiple adjustment options ..... when he gives up on a play at the top of his route its because he is in a west coast offense

thats pretty funny

yeah....you would like to think that any NFL receiver would be able to break away from his assignment and make a play when his route doesnt uncover wouldnt you?.....

truth is....it doesnt happen as much as you think....

most guys who do attempt it either start to streak down the sideline with their hand in the air or run back toward their QB......the latter being what they are coached to do in certain coverages...

Cruz just gets open .....

Ive been watching guys run routes for nearly 50 years.....closely....

havent seen very many with a feel for the field and vision like this guy

and his yds per catch % clearly shows this

yoeddy
12-06-2011, 03:59 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

its part of every NFL teams system

what im talking about is when he is not assigned an adjustment and doesnt give up on a play

How do you know when he hasn't been assigned an adjustment?

I agree that not giving up on a play is great...but still think it's what you should expect from an NFL receiver (and not a "isn't it wonderful?" kind of thing)...

when watching in person it is extremely simple to the educated eye to tell who has an adjustment and who does not ....its blatantly obvious actually

but since we are talking about it....even when he is assigned an adjustment he has adjusted beautifully as of late and has surpassed Manningham in my opinion in that area

but there are many times per game where Victor will get to his routes destination ....(when not assigned an adjustment).....look back at Eli and run to green grass

Im gathering that you dont understand how many receivers in this league just run their route and if it doesnt open up then oh well...next snap.....ala Desean Jackson and countless others

this is something that puts Cruz in the upper echelon of receivers in the game who are first willing ...and then able...to get open when what was drawn up doesnt go as planned

No...I do understand it, and I also understand that Gilbride's system requires multiple levels of adjustments to be made (more levels than most, and much of it based on the QB getting protection for 5-6 seconds). And I do watch the receivers when I'm at the stadium (4 times per year). I also understand that the West Coast Offense that teams like the Eagles run that those 2nd and 3rd level adjustments aren't needed because the system is built around the QB making a quick decision based on only a handful of options on each play.

The fact that Cruz plays to the whistle (and not just finishes his route and then stops) is something that I would expect from any starting WR in the NFL. I agree that he's special...but not for the reason you are citing here...


there are obvious situations where Cruz route has peaked and he extends the play

and I love how yr telling me that because Jackson doesnt have multiple adjustment options ..... when he gives up on a play at the top of his route its because he is in a west coast offense

thats pretty funny

yeah....you would like to think that any NFL receiver would be able to break away from his assignment and make a play when his route doesnt uncover wouldnt you?.....

truth is....it doesnt happen as much as you think....

most guys who do attempt it either start to streak down the sideline with their hand in the air or run back toward their QB......the latter being what they are coached to do in certain coverages...

Cruz just gets open .....

Ive been watching guys run routes for nearly 50 years.....closely....

havent seen very many with a feel for the field and vision like this guy

and his yds per catch % clearly shows this

I agree that he has a special knack for getting open. Not sure if I agree that it's something that he's doing differently regarding running the routes he's supposed to (thru multiple levels) or if it's about technique and ability to get separation.

And of course, DeSean Jackson's lack of moves at the top of his route this year is more about him being a head-case than it is about the West Coast Offense...but McNabb used to make a living off of extending plays and having his WRs make scramble adjustments, and I don't think that Cruz playing to the whistle is anything that deserves any kind of special praise....

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 04:04 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

its part of every NFL teams system

what im talking about is when he is not assigned an adjustment and doesnt give up on a play

How do you know when he hasn't been assigned an adjustment?

I agree that not giving up on a play is great...but still think it's what you should expect from an NFL receiver (and not a "isn't it wonderful?" kind of thing)...

when watching in person it is extremely simple to the educated eye to tell who has an adjustment and who does not ....its blatantly obvious actually

but since we are talking about it....even when he is assigned an adjustment he has adjusted beautifully as of late and has surpassed Manningham in my opinion in that area

but there are many times per game where Victor will get to his routes destination ....(when not assigned an adjustment).....look back at Eli and run to green grass

Im gathering that you dont understand how many receivers in this league just run their route and if it doesnt open up then oh well...next snap.....ala Desean Jackson and countless others

this is something that puts Cruz in the upper echelon of receivers in the game who are first willing ...and then able...to get open when what was drawn up doesnt go as planned

No...I do understand it, and I also understand that Gilbride's system requires multiple levels of adjustments to be made (more levels than most, and much of it based on the QB getting protection for 5-6 seconds). And I do watch the receivers when I'm at the stadium (4 times per year). I also understand that the West Coast Offense that teams like the Eagles run that those 2nd and 3rd level adjustments aren't needed because the system is built around the QB making a quick decision based on only a handful of options on each play.

The fact that Cruz plays to the whistle (and not just finishes his route and then stops) is something that I would expect from any starting WR in the NFL. I agree that he's special...but not for the reason you are citing here...


there are obvious situations where Cruz route has peaked and he extends the play

and I love how yr telling me that because Jackson doesnt have multiple adjustment options ..... when he gives up on a play at the top of his route its because he is in a west coast offense

thats pretty funny

yeah....you would like to think that any NFL receiver would be able to break away from his assignment and make a play when his route doesnt uncover wouldnt you?.....

truth is....it doesnt happen as much as you think....

most guys who do attempt it either start to streak down the sideline with their hand in the air or run back toward their QB......the latter being what they are coached to do in certain coverages...

Cruz just gets open .....

Ive been watching guys run routes for nearly 50 years.....closely....

havent seen very many with a feel for the field and vision like this guy

and his yds per catch % clearly shows this

I agree that he has a special knack for getting open. Not sure if I agree that it's something that he's doing differently regarding running the routes he's supposed to (thru multiple levels) or if it's about technique and ability to get separation.

And of course, DeSean Jackson's lack of moves at the top of his route this year is more about him being a head-case than it is about the West Coast Offense...but McNabb used to make a living off of extending plays and having his WRs make scramble adjustments, and I don't think that Cruz playing to the whistle is anything that deserves any kind of special praise....

thats simply where you and I will disagree then

I love to see the extra effort out of a guy in blue after years of guys like Shockey, Burress, etc . playing when they felt like it

yoeddy
12-06-2011, 04:10 PM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize


Just curious...why do you consider making adjustments and getting open "bailing Eli out"? Isn't that what receivers are supposed to do? Do the receivers for Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc not do that for their QBs?

Im speaking strictly of situations when he was obviously not assigned an option but took it upon himself to freestyle while Eli was making reads looking for an open man.......and he gets the ball

he does this at least once per game

he is always taking a peek back at Eli checking the situation if he gets to his destination and the ball has not come out

Isn't that part of Gilbride's system? That reads and adjustments happen at multiple levels in the scheme?

its part of every NFL teams system

what im talking about is when he is not assigned an adjustment and doesnt give up on a play

How do you know when he hasn't been assigned an adjustment?

I agree that not giving up on a play is great...but still think it's what you should expect from an NFL receiver (and not a "isn't it wonderful?" kind of thing)...

when watching in person it is extremely simple to the educated eye to tell who has an adjustment and who does not ....its blatantly obvious actually

but since we are talking about it....even when he is assigned an adjustment he has adjusted beautifully as of late and has surpassed Manningham in my opinion in that area

but there are many times per game where Victor will get to his routes destination ....(when not assigned an adjustment).....look back at Eli and run to green grass

Im gathering that you dont understand how many receivers in this league just run their route and if it doesnt open up then oh well...next snap.....ala Desean Jackson and countless others

this is something that puts Cruz in the upper echelon of receivers in the game who are first willing ...and then able...to get open when what was drawn up doesnt go as planned

No...I do understand it, and I also understand that Gilbride's system requires multiple levels of adjustments to be made (more levels than most, and much of it based on the QB getting protection for 5-6 seconds). And I do watch the receivers when I'm at the stadium (4 times per year). I also understand that the West Coast Offense that teams like the Eagles run that those 2nd and 3rd level adjustments aren't needed because the system is built around the QB making a quick decision based on only a handful of options on each play.

The fact that Cruz plays to the whistle (and not just finishes his route and then stops) is something that I would expect from any starting WR in the NFL. I agree that he's special...but not for the reason you are citing here...


there are obvious situations where Cruz route has peaked and he extends the play

and I love how yr telling me that because Jackson doesnt have multiple adjustment options ..... when he gives up on a play at the top of his route its because he is in a west coast offense

thats pretty funny

yeah....you would like to think that any NFL receiver would be able to break away from his assignment and make a play when his route doesnt uncover wouldnt you?.....

truth is....it doesnt happen as much as you think....

most guys who do attempt it either start to streak down the sideline with their hand in the air or run back toward their QB......the latter being what they are coached to do in certain coverages...

Cruz just gets open .....

Ive been watching guys run routes for nearly 50 years.....closely....

havent seen very many with a feel for the field and vision like this guy

and his yds per catch % clearly shows this

I agree that he has a special knack for getting open. Not sure if I agree that it's something that he's doing differently regarding running the routes he's supposed to (thru multiple levels) or if it's about technique and ability to get separation.

And of course, DeSean Jackson's lack of moves at the top of his route this year is more about him being a head-case than it is about the West Coast Offense...but McNabb used to make a living off of extending plays and having his WRs make scramble adjustments, and I don't think that Cruz playing to the whistle is anything that deserves any kind of special praise....

thats simply where you and I will disagree then

I love to see the extra effort out of a guy in blue after years of guys like Shockey, Burress, etc . playing when they felt like it

We agree on the effort thing...and I was never a Shockey fan (though admittedly I was a Burress fan for different reasons). I got into this conversation because you used the phrase "bailing Eli out" like he was doing something that was above and beyond what he's supposed to do...

rebelfan1966
12-06-2011, 04:19 PM
Not going to pick who is better... but just say, I am happy with Cruz.

nycsportzfan
12-07-2011, 07:43 AM
what is great about Cruz is the same thing that was terrible about him earlier in the season........his adjustments

he bails Eli out more than some of you who watch on TV may realize

not only has he become fantastic at catching a defender flat footed and sitting him down......but he has done very well at re routing to green pastures

he is amazing against zone coverage ...just has a knack for finding soft spots.....and is also a nightmare for man coverage...he consistently has defenders doing pirouettes

we scored gold with this kid

as for the original Smith question....

I think he has more dimensions as a player than Smith ...which makes him more dangerous.....

if he learns to look the ball in and make more consistent catches he will surpass Smith in my eyes

the dude is on pace to break Giants receiving records.....just as Smith did Hence why the day we signed him as a UDF I made a point to say hes anything but just camp fodder and don't be surprised if he makes the team Watching him and reading about him in my local newspaper I just knew he was gonna be a player in this league! Not even i could see this coming but i certainly thought he could help! I love that hes not 1dimensional and can beat u in so many diffrent ways as u stated above I didn't think he was gonna be such a playmaker but boy is he turning into one! I thought he'd be more Chris Calloway with a bit more breakawy ability

FDNY Fitzy
12-07-2011, 12:47 PM
I think Eli Manning made Steve Smith look a lot better than he is.