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burier
11-15-2011, 11:20 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 11:30 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

Watch it again...the defenders that were "in the area" were in zones that weren't really in position to make a play in the spot where the ball was thrown...two guys were over the top and one guy was stationary in the middle. Rogers made the INT, but if Manningham continued his route he would have been right there in single coverage with Rogers and probably had the edge for the ball.

Not really sure what Manningham was thinking. It's not like he cut his route back outside...he just stopped...

Roosevelt
11-15-2011, 11:30 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

Somehow I get the impression you feel better now.

Where I come from an interception is an interception - they all suck.

chizz
11-15-2011, 11:32 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

Somehow I get the impression you feel better now.

Where I come from an interception is an interception - they all suck.






lmao

GameTime
11-15-2011, 11:40 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 11:40 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

thats not at all what he said

here is the quote straight from the post game presser....straight from his mouth

"....he had an incut and he maybe thought I was scrambling and maybe he was gonna try to bang it back out and get open ...I thought he was gonna stay on the move and obviously I threw it...."

where in the world does he say anything remotely suggesting it was Marios fault...

Mannningham did exactly as he is coached.....if you are manned up and see yourself running into coverage you break break back and get open ....Eli was under pressure and Marios route was taking him into triple coverage

its noones fault ...they saw 2 different things

it happens

not Marios fault at all....nor is it Elis

just an off page play

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 11:42 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <font color="#000080" size="4">That to me</font> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</p>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</p>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</p>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</p>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</p>


</p>

well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 11:43 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

thats not at all what he said

here is the quote straight from the post game presser....straight from his mouth

"....he had an incut and he maybe thought I was scrambling and maybe he was gonna try to bang it back out and get open ...I thought he was gonna stay on the move and obviously I threw it...."

where in the world does he say anything remotely suggesting it was Marios fault...

Mannningham did exactly as he is coached.....if you are manned up and see yourself running into coverage you break break back and get open ....Eli was under pressure and Marios route was taking him into triple coverage

its noones fault ...they saw 2 different things

it happens

not Marios fault at all....nor is it Elis

just an off page play

well was Eli scrambling?

BParcells777
11-15-2011, 11:47 AM
it was so horrific, it looked to me like they both made mistakes

I think Eli let Cruz drop get in his head a little on the other INT......it was grossly underthrown

Eli is not perfect, and the rest of the team should start to "make plays" too.......like the front 7 who were just run stoppers in that game.....no QB pressure at all

burier
11-15-2011, 11:49 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

thats not at all what he said

here is the quote straight from the post game presser....straight from his mouth

"....he had an incut and he maybe thought I was scrambling and maybe he was gonna try to bang it back out and get open ...I thought he was gonna stay on the move and obviously I threw it...."

where in the world does he say anything remotely suggesting it was Marios fault...

Mannningham did exactly as he is coached.....if you are manned up and see yourself running into coverage you break break back and get open ....Eli was under pressure and Marios route was taking him into triple coverage

its noones fault ...they saw 2 different things

it happens

not Marios fault at all....nor is it Elis

just an off page play

First of all thanks for the quote.

And I appreciate you standing by your initial position but the fact that Eli says "He maybe thought I was scrambling" indicates that the ONLY reason for Mario to adjust the route in the fashion he did was if Eli was "scrambling"...Since Eli clearly was not scrambling Mario had no reason to behave in the fashion he did.

Eli didnt say "Maybe he was responding to the coverage" Which is what your suggesting Mario was doing.

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 11:50 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

thats not at all what he said

here is the quote straight from the post game presser....straight from his mouth

"....he had an incut and he maybe thought I was scrambling and maybe he was gonna try to bang it back out and get open ...I thought he was gonna stay on the move and obviously I threw it...."

where in the world does he say anything remotely suggesting it was Marios fault...

Mannningham did exactly as he is coached.....if you are manned up and see yourself running into coverage you break break back and get open ....Eli was under pressure and Marios route was taking him into triple coverage

its noones fault ...they saw 2 different things

it happens

not Marios fault at all....nor is it Elis

just an off page play

well was Eli scrambling?


Eli was not scrambling, but he did drift left...meanwhile, Mario stopped his route on the right side. That would have been a dangerous throw for Eli to make to his right from the left side of the field...

burier
11-15-2011, 11:53 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>

Dude we all speak English here. Aren't you able to deduce what someone means when they speak to you or does it have to be completely explicit????

In order for Eli to clear this issue up in your mind he'd have to say something like

"Mario is a *Burier on phrasing watch*. He ran the wrong route and the interception was completely his fault"

burier
11-15-2011, 11:57 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

thats not at all what he said

here is the quote straight from the post game presser....straight from his mouth

"....he had an incut and he maybe thought I was scrambling and maybe he was gonna try to bang it back out and get open ...I thought he was gonna stay on the move and obviously I threw it...."

where in the world does he say anything remotely suggesting it was Marios fault...

Mannningham did exactly as he is coached.....if you are manned up and see yourself running into coverage you break break back and get open ....Eli was under pressure and Marios route was taking him into triple coverage

its noones fault ...they saw 2 different things

it happens

not Marios fault at all....nor is it Elis

just an off page play

well was Eli scrambling?


Eli was not scrambling, but he did drift left...meanwhile, Mario stopped his route on the right side. That would have been a dangerous throw for Eli to make to his right from the left side of the field...


There is a protocol for what a Reciever should do when the "QB scrambles OUT OF the pocket" You break your route and head toward the sideline NEAREST the QB.

This protocol does not apply to "drifting"

Furthermore even if Eli left the pocket to his left there is no logical reason in a scramble drill for Mario to stop his route or break to Eli's right.

G-Man67
11-15-2011, 12:13 PM
which makes total sense, Mario decided to go into "improv" mode because the play was covered, but Eli was still in the pocket and he had made up his mind that he was throwing to Manningham on that route (coverage or not)



so, if you have to place blame then it does go on Mario, but still the decision to try to complete a pass with 3 defenders around is not a good one either ... hard to say what would have happened if Mario continued the route ... maybe somebody could computer simulate it :)

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 12:17 PM
which makes total sense, Mario decided to go into "improv" mode because the play was covered, but Eli was still in the pocket and he had made up his mind that he was throwing to Manningham on that route (coverage or not)



so, if you have to place blame then it does go on Mario, but still the decision to try to complete a pass with 3 defenders around is not a good one either ... hard to say what would have happened if Mario continued the route ... maybe somebody could computer simulate it :)

I disagree that "the play was covered"...look at where the defenders are when Rogers makes the INT...the two over are at least 6-7 yards away, and the guy in the middle zone was a few yards away as well. If Mario continues the route, the worst would have been an incompletion and the most likely would have been a catch by Mario immediately followed by a tackle.

burier
11-15-2011, 12:27 PM
I believe if Mario runs his route correclty its a simple completion regardless of defenders being there or not.

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 12:32 PM
I believe if Mario runs his route correclty its a simple completion regardless of defenders being there or not.

I agree.

G-Man67
11-15-2011, 12:38 PM
which makes total sense, Mario decided to go into "improv" mode because the play was covered, but Eli was still in the pocket and he had made up his mind that he was throwing to Manningham on that route (coverage or not)



so, if you have to place blame then it does go on Mario, but still the decision to try to complete a pass with 3 defenders around is not a good one either ... hard to say what would have happened if Mario continued the route ... maybe somebody could computer simulate it :)

I disagree that "the play was covered"...look at where the defenders are when Rogers makes the INT...the two over are at least 6-7 yards away, and the guy in the middle zone was a few yards away as well. If Mario continues the route, the worst would have been an incompletion and the most likely would have been a catch by Mario immediately followed by a tackle.

but you are assuming that the defenders would have just stood there like statues and not reacted to Mario actually coming into there zone ... listen any outcome is possible and by all accounts he should have continued the route .... but we can't just ignore the fact that WRs do break off routes strategically ... just a tough play for us

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 12:42 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>

burier
11-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>

It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.

ShakeNBake
11-15-2011, 12:52 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>

It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.

Actually your excerpt doesn't say who's fault manning claims it to be one way or another.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 12:53 PM
which makes total sense, Mario decided to go into "improv" mode because the play was covered, but Eli was still in the pocket and he had made up his mind that he was throwing to Manningham on that route (coverage or not)



so, if you have to place blame then it does go on Mario, but still the decision to try to complete a pass with 3 defenders around is not a good one either ... hard to say what would have happened if Mario continued the route ... maybe somebody could computer simulate it :)</p>


</p>

eli makes a million throws to plays that are much more "covered" than that. You have to make tight throws or you go play arena football - not NFL
</p>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 12:53 PM
I believe if Mario runs his route correclty its a simple completion regardless of defenders being there or not.

I agree.. they were all behind him

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 12:55 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>

as lawl just told you - not EVERY single route has that option on every play or we'd have ALOT of WRs running to the same place

burier
11-15-2011, 12:55 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>

It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.

Actually your excerpt doesn't say who's fault manning claims it to be one way or another.


actually it kinda does.

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 12:58 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</P>

ShakeNBake
11-15-2011, 12:59 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>

as lawl just told you - not EVERY single route has that option on every play or we'd have ALOT of WRs running to the same place



Right, but how do we know it wasn't an option route? We don't know either way and to argue whos fault it was is useless because we don't know the playcall.

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 01:05 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>




as lawl just told you - not EVERY single route has that option on every play or we'd have ALOT of WRs running to the same place



Right, but how do we know it wasn't an option route? We don't know either way and to argue whos fault it was is useless because we don't know the playcall.
</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>Matt knows the playbook.</FONT></P>

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 01:06 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</P>

why can't people not understand this?

its amazing

they act like Mario just stopped to make a phone call

the guy was trying to get open for his QB

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 01:06 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</P>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 01:08 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</P>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

its not a adjustment route....its an incut.....

he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB

as he is coached to do

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 01:10 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</P>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

its not a adjustment route....its an incut.....

he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB

as he is coached to do

Are you absolutely sure about this?

...and beyond that, are you sure that Manningham made the right read? I look at the replay and am not convinced that the route was covered...

burier
11-15-2011, 01:15 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</P>

No of course Eli wasn't blaming Mario. You know Eli would never do that....but he does offer insight as to what happened on that play and based on what he said its pretty obvious that Mario did the wrong thing.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 01:16 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>

as lawl just told you - not EVERY single route has that option on every play or we'd have ALOT of WRs running to the same place



Right, but how do we know it wasn't an option route? We don't know either way and to argue whos fault it was is useless because we don't know the playcall.


regardless if it was or wasn't, Eli said he should of been going in.

But educated guess would say that running to the general area where defenders are wouldn't be where the option route would go to get as open as possible

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 01:16 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</P>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

its not a adjustment route....its an incut.....

he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB

as he is coached to do

Are you absolutely sure about this?

I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment

looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz

Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was

its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route

no fault of anyone ...it happens

if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick

if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain

the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 01:17 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</p>

why can't people not understand this?

its amazing

they act like Mario just stopped to make a phone call

the guy was trying to get open for his QB

not killing Mario for this, but this thread is about the blame game. If its on anybody its on Mario

If he though Eli was scrambling and hes suppose to break the route, thats fine - but eli wasn't scrambling

burier
11-15-2011, 01:20 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</P>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

its not a adjustment route....its an incut.....

he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB

as he is coached to do

Are you absolutely sure about this?

I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment

looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz

Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was

its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route

no fault of anyone ...it happens

if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick

if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain

the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

First of all no is saying burn Mario at the stake or anything like that. He's a good player and has made tons of plays.

If you're arguing that he was trying to do the right thing then you win...there's no argument there...of course he's trying to make a play..of course hes trying to win...But I think he made a poor decision on that one play. Thats all.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 01:20 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</p>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

its not a adjustment route....its an incut.....

he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB

as he is coached to do

Are you absolutely sure about this?

I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment

looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz

Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was

its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route

no fault of anyone ...it happens

if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick

if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain

the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

well then Mario saw it wrong if he thought Eli was scrambling because he wasn't.

But again, this whole debate is about whose at fault for the play. If its anybody its mario. Eli DIDNT scramble so he SHOULDNT of broke it off. It was just one of those things

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 01:20 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</p>

why can't people not understand this?

its amazing

they act like Mario just stopped to make a phone call

the guy was trying to get open for his QB

not killing Mario for this, but this thread is about the blame game. If its on anybody its on Mario

If he though Eli was scrambling and hes suppose to break the route, thats fine - but eli wasn't scrambling


I dont even think he broke because of a scramble.....

eventhough he could have thought that because Eli was running from pressure

I think he broke because of the amount of bodies he saw heading directly where his route was heading

watch the play

Eli is pressured from his right....and where he throws the ball there are 3 defenders.....not likely Mario wins that one

Mario was looking out for his QB

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 01:22 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</p>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

its not a adjustment route....its an incut.....

he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB

as he is coached to do

Are you absolutely sure about this?

I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment

looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz

Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was

its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route

no fault of anyone ...it happens

if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick

if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain

the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

well then Mario saw it wrong if he thought Eli was scrambling because he wasn't.*

But again, this whole debate is about whose at fault for the play.* If its anybody its mario. Eli DIDNT scramble so he SHOULDNT of broke it off.* It was just one of those things



define scrambling

if its running from pressure...then yes he was scrambling

you dont have to be frantic Fran Tarkenton style to be scrambling

he saw him under pressure and broke off

what is so hard to comprehend?

you guys act like Mario stopped for a smoke

he was looking out for his QB

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 01:23 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</p>

why can't people not understand this?

its amazing

they act like Mario just stopped to make a phone call

the guy was trying to get open for his QB

not killing Mario for this, but this thread is about the blame game. If its on anybody its on Mario

If he though Eli was scrambling and hes suppose to break the route, thats fine - but eli wasn't scrambling


I dont even think he broke because of a scramble.....

eventhough he could have thought that because Eli was running from pressure

I think he broke because of the amount of bodies he saw heading directly where his route was heading

watch the play

Eli is pressured from his right....and where he throws the ball there are 3 defenders.....not likely Mario wins that one

Mario was looking out for his QB

well if thats the case then its more on Mario than u are suggesting.

Eli plainly said hes on the in-route and he doesn't know why he broke it off. The only suggestion he could come up with was if he thought it was scrambling.

Even if the in-route is covered Mario should still be running it if thats his job. Not every WR is on an option every play

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 01:24 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</p>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

its not a adjustment route....its an incut.....

he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB

as he is coached to do

Are you absolutely sure about this?

I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment

looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz

Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was

its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route

no fault of anyone ...it happens

if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick

if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain

the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

well then Mario saw it wrong if he thought Eli was scrambling because he wasn't.

But again, this whole debate is about whose at fault for the play. If its anybody its mario. Eli DIDNT scramble so he SHOULDNT of broke it off. It was just one of those things



define scrambling

if its running from pressure...then yes he was scrambling

you dont have to be frantic Fran Tarkenton style to be scrambling

he saw him under pressure and broke off

what is so hard to comprehend?

you guys act like Mario stopped for a smoke

he was looking out for his QB

running out of the pocket, not stepping to avoid pressure.

I may not have the words on it, but now your really trying to split hairs. I wouldn't consider Eli scrambling on that play

burier
11-15-2011, 01:30 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick.* He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside.*** Thats not on Manningham.</p>

On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read...

its not a adjustment route....its an incut.....

he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB

as he is coached to do

Are you absolutely sure about this?

I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment

looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz

Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was

its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route

no fault of anyone ...it happens

if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick

if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain

the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

well then Mario saw it wrong if he thought Eli was scrambling because he wasn't.*

But again, this whole debate is about whose at fault for the play.* If its anybody its mario. Eli DIDNT scramble so he SHOULDNT of broke it off.* It was just one of those things



define scrambling

if its running from pressure...then yes he was scrambling

you dont have to be frantic Fran Tarkenton style to be scrambling

he saw him under pressure and broke off

what is so hard to comprehend?

you guys act like Mario stopped for a smoke

he was looking out for his QB

running out of the pocket, not stepping to avoid pressure.

I may not have the words on it, but now your really trying to split hairs. I wouldn't consider Eli scrambling on that play


no one would because he wasn't scrambling.

It doesn't have to look like Fran but I'm pretty sure a scramble isnt a scramble until the QB is out of the pocket.

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 01:44 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</P>


On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read... its not a adjustment route....its an incut..... he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB as he is coached to do Are you absolutely sure about this? I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route no fault of anyone ...it happens if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

well then Mario saw it wrong if he thought Eli was scrambling because he wasn't.

But again, this whole debate is about whose at fault for the play. If its anybody its mario. Eli DIDNT scramble so he SHOULDNT of broke it off. It was just one of those things

define scrambling if its running from pressure...then yes he was scrambling you dont have to be frantic Fran Tarkenton style to be scrambling he saw him under pressure and broke off what is so hard to comprehend? you guys act like Mario stopped for a smoke he was looking out for his QB

running out of the pocket, not stepping to avoid pressure.

I may not have the words on it, but now your really trying to split hairs. I wouldn't consider Eli scrambling on that play
</P>


Is there any time when you DON't blame the WR when Eli is concerned?</P>


Your agenda disqualifies you from this discussion. You latch on to one thing Eli said about "scrambling" and you latch onto it like its your Mother's leg.</P>


MM is coached to make that play. Eli bought the same fake that the defender did. It happens. MM was NOT at fault.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 01:50 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</p>


On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read... its not a adjustment route....its an incut..... he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB as he is coached to do Are you absolutely sure about this? I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route no fault of anyone ...it happens if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

well then Mario saw it wrong if he thought Eli was scrambling because he wasn't.

But again, this whole debate is about whose at fault for the play. If its anybody its mario. Eli DIDNT scramble so he SHOULDNT of broke it off. It was just one of those things

define scrambling if its running from pressure...then yes he was scrambling you dont have to be frantic Fran Tarkenton style to be scrambling he saw him under pressure and broke off what is so hard to comprehend? you guys act like Mario stopped for a smoke he was looking out for his QB

running out of the pocket, not stepping to avoid pressure.

I may not have the words on it, but now your really trying to split hairs. I wouldn't consider Eli scrambling on that play
</p>


Is there any time when you DON't blame the WR when Eli is concerned?</p>


Your agenda disqualifies you from this discussion. You latch on to one thing Eli said about "scrambling" and you latch onto it like its your Mother's leg.</p>


MM is coached to make that play. Eli bought the same fake that the defender did. It happens. MM was NOT at fault.</p>

yes actually - just not when they stop running routes, run wrong routes, or drop balls

i guess im silly like that

well typical moorehead to try and pretend theres some agenda other than the facts:

If Eli scrambled or Mario thought he did, then he'd have a valid excuse for breaking his route off

BUT when ELI says he was suppose to be on the in-route im going to put my money on Eli knowing where hes suppose to be.

And i forgot who it was, but I actually put the scrambling thing to bed. Somebody asked me to define scrambling

keep trying moorehead - im sure one of these days you'll find yourself correct on ONE Eli statement u make

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 01:52 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</P>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</P>


On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read... its not a adjustment route....its an incut..... he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB as he is coached to do Are you absolutely sure about this? I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route no fault of anyone ...it happens if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

well then Mario saw it wrong if he thought Eli was scrambling because he wasn't.

But again, this whole debate is about whose at fault for the play. If its anybody its mario. Eli DIDNT scramble so he SHOULDNT of broke it off. It was just one of those things

define scrambling if its running from pressure...then yes he was scrambling you dont have to be frantic Fran Tarkenton style to be scrambling he saw him under pressure and broke off what is so hard to comprehend? you guys act like Mario stopped for a smoke he was looking out for his QB

running out of the pocket, not stepping to avoid pressure.

I may not have the words on it, but now your really trying to split hairs. I wouldn't consider Eli scrambling on that play
</P>


Is there any time when you DON't blame the WR when Eli is concerned?</P>


Your agenda disqualifies you from this discussion. You latch on to one thing Eli said about "scrambling" and you latch onto it like its your Mother's leg.</P>


MM is coached to make that play. Eli bought the same fake that the defender did. It happens. MM was NOT at fault.</P>




yes actually - just not when they stop running routes, run wrong routes, or drop balls

i guess im silly like that
</P>


Why do you think he stopped the route. Do you think he quit on the play or do you think he was trying to get open?</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 01:53 PM
and a fresh one off the top of my head:

The first pick was totally on Eli

feel better?

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 01:55 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>


It appears as though Eli Manning disagrees with you.</p>


I saw his press conference and thats simply not true at all. You guys make it sound like Eli was blaming MM for the pick. He didn't do that at all. Manningham made an adjustment away from coverage and Eli thought he was continuing inside. Thats not on Manningham.</p>


On the flip side, Manning rarely ever blames anyone else...that said, when he knows it's his fault, he is one of the first people to admit it. So you can infer from his comments that he thought Manningham made the wrong read... its not a adjustment route....its an incut..... he saw coverage closing in and broke off his route to get open for his QB as he is coached to do Are you absolutely sure about this? I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route no fault of anyone ...it happens if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

well then Mario saw it wrong if he thought Eli was scrambling because he wasn't.

But again, this whole debate is about whose at fault for the play. If its anybody its mario. Eli DIDNT scramble so he SHOULDNT of broke it off. It was just one of those things

define scrambling if its running from pressure...then yes he was scrambling you dont have to be frantic Fran Tarkenton style to be scrambling he saw him under pressure and broke off what is so hard to comprehend? you guys act like Mario stopped for a smoke he was looking out for his QB

running out of the pocket, not stepping to avoid pressure.

I may not have the words on it, but now your really trying to split hairs. I wouldn't consider Eli scrambling on that play
</p>


Is there any time when you DON't blame the WR when Eli is concerned?</p>


Your agenda disqualifies you from this discussion. You latch on to one thing Eli said about "scrambling" and you latch onto it like its your Mother's leg.</p>


MM is coached to make that play. Eli bought the same fake that the defender did. It happens. MM was NOT at fault.</p>




yes actually - just not when they stop running routes, run wrong routes, or drop balls

i guess im silly like that
</p>


Why do you think he stopped the route. Do you think he quit on the play or do you think he was trying to get open?</p>

i edited and added more to this response fyi, don't want u to miss anything that can help learns you.

Because he probably thought Eli was scrambling if I had to guess.

Eli seemed pretty confident that Mario should of been on the in route.

Delicreep
11-15-2011, 01:56 PM
and a fresh one off the top of my head:

The first pick was totally on Eli

feel better?


Matt...send you a PM

Ruttiger711
11-15-2011, 01:56 PM
While I dont blame either Eli or MM for the int... </P>


</P>


... where's everyone coming up with this "MM did what he was coached to do.." where's this inside knowledge coming from? </P>


I can understand yes, if he see's coverage dont run in that direction, but with so many passes being thrown at the same instance of the cut - i find it hard to believe he's coached to break out of the decision he's already made... isnt the "option" of the routes where to cut to... not to "re-option" out of that?</P>

GameTime
11-15-2011, 01:57 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 02:00 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <font color="#000080" size="4">That to me</font> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</p>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</p>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</p>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</p>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</p>


</p>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</p>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</p>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</p>

well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR

burier
11-15-2011, 02:02 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>

Yikes.

Ok so the fact that Eli said that mario may have THOUGHT he was scrambling doesn't give Mario an out because Eli was not scrambling.

And this stop or cut back stuff was never mentioned by Eli and as far as I'm concerned you might as well say "Maybe he was supposed to stay in a block on that play" There's just no basis from which to draw such a conclusion.

Based on what Eli SAID (The clearing up part) Mario should have run the incut and should have only run something else IF Eli was scrambling which he wasn't.

Pretty basic stuff

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 02:03 PM
and a fresh one off the top of my head:

The first pick was totally on Eli

feel better?


Matt...send you a PM

responded

GameTime
11-15-2011, 02:05 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


</P>

burier
11-15-2011, 02:09 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


*</P>

The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension

GameTime
11-15-2011, 02:14 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 02:40 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments. No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>

burier
11-15-2011, 02:47 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


*</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me of*something that I dont agree with. Its not that*I dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments.* No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>

I don't know about you but I'm never going to see the playbook and I don't need the playbook to make an inference.

LT_was_good
11-15-2011, 02:56 PM
Did any reporters simply ask Manningham why he changed directions? Because if they did and he responded along the lines of "I was trying to get open" or "I saw three defenders and cut outside" or "I like when my QB throws interceptions" we might have more clarity.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 03:04 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <font color="#000080" size="4">That to me</font> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</p>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</p>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</p>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</p>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</p>


</p>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</p>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</p>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</p>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</p>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</p>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</p>


</p>

what was the mistake on Eli's part? For throwing it to where the receiver was suppose to be?

Thats not a mistake

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 03:05 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <font color="#000080" size="4">That to me</font> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</p>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</p>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</p>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</p>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</p>


</p>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</p>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</p>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</p>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</p>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</p>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</p>


</p>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</p>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</p>


[B]</p>


</p>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments. No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</p>

Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 03:12 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <font color="#000080" size="4">That to me</font> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</p>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</p>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</p>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</p>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</p>


*</p>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</p>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</p>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</p>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</p>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</p>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</p>


*</p>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</p>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me of*something that I dont agree with. Its not that*I dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</p>


[B]</p>


</p>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments.* No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</p>

Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay


when and where did Eli say this?

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 03:14 PM
I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment

looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz

Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was

its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route

no fault of anyone ...it happens

if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick

if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain

the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

If Manningham thought Eli was under pressure from the blitz, wouldn't it be more to protocol for Manningham to break to the side of the field that Manning was moving to? In this case, Manning was drifting left, but Manningham stopped his route to stay on the right.

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 03:15 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments. No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


I didn't see him say that. Where did this happen?</P>

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 03:17 PM
While I dont blame either Eli or MM for the int... </P>


*</P>


... where's everyone coming up with this "MM did what he was coached to do.."* where's this inside knowledge coming from?* </P>


I can understand yes, if he see's coverage dont run in that direction, but with so many passes being thrown at the same instance of the cut - i find it hard to believe he's coached to break out of the decision he's already made... isnt the "option" of the routes where to cut to... not to "re-option" out of that?</P>

its football 101 that if your QB is avoiding pressure you break off and get open

even if Eli wasnt "scrambling"....I could clearly see Manningham possibly glancing back ...seeing his QB running from pressure and breaking off

its what he is supposed to do

why else would he break off his route?

seriously

is it because of his wonderlic score that so many like to bring up?

no

is it because he figures he was out of the play

no

is it because he decided to give up

no

did he need to tie his shoe and make a phone call

no

he was trying to help out his QB

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 03:18 PM
I dont have the playbook....but it sure didnt look like an adjustment

looked much more like improving to get open because Eli was under pressure from a blitz

Mario saw all the coverage rolling in the direction his route was taking him and broke off to where noone was

its not a bad play .......Eli just thought he would continue his route

no fault of anyone ...it happens

if Mario continued his route it may have been a completion....may have been a pick

if Eli saw Mario break it may have been an incompletion .....and may have been a huge gain

the blame cannot go to Mario for breaking his route to get away from coverage

If Manningham thought Eli was under pressure from the blitz, wouldn't it be more to protocol for Manningham to break to the side of the field that Manning was moving to? In this case, Manning was drifting left, but Manningham stopped his route to stay on the right.

probably yeah

but all this happens extremely fast and Im guessing his first thought was to get away from coverage

which he did

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 03:20 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


*</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me of*something that I dont agree with. Its not that*I dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments.* No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


I didn't see him say that.* Where did this happen?</P>

you didnt see it it because Eli never said that

he said Mario probably thought he was scrambling so he broke off to get open......which he should do if he thinks his QB is scrambling

even if Eli wasnt "scrambling"......I could totally understand how Mario looking over could think so in the seconds it takes for a play to unfold

exactly what we are stating a million times in this thread

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 03:24 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments. No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


You just made that up....didn't you?</P>

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 03:24 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments. No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


You just made that up....didn't you?</P>

burier
11-15-2011, 03:28 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


*</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me of*something that I dont agree with. Its not that*I dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments.* No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


I didn't see him say that.* Where did this happen?</P>

you didnt see it it because Eli never said that

he said Mario probably thought he was scrambling so he broke off to get open......which he should do if he thinks his QB is scrambling

even if Eli wasnt "scrambling"......I could totally understand how Mario looking over could think so in the seconds it takes for a play to unfold

exactly what we are stating a million times in this thread

The fact that you excuse the mistake doesn't make it any less of a mistake.

Here's what we can reasonably assume.

1) Mario was to run a incut

2) Mario didn't run an incut for whatever reason. Possibly because he thought Eli was scrambling

3) Eli was not scrambling.

what else needs to be said?

GameTime
11-15-2011, 03:29 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments. No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


didnt read into it like you did I guess.....</P>


your opinion doesnt matter.....what really happened matters for this topic of this post. And what really happened has yet to be determined.....</P>

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 03:31 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


*</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me of*something that I dont agree with. Its not that*I dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments.* No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


I didn't see him say that.* Where did this happen?</P>

Manning said this after the game: “Yeah, that’s something we have to look at. He had an in cut, and maybe he thought that I was scrambling. He was going to try to bang it back out and get open. I thought he was going to stay on the move. Obviously threw it, and the cornerback stayed on the move and caught it.”

This statement implies that the only reason why Manningham shouldn't have stayed on the in-cut was if he thought Manning was scrambling and needed to adjust.

burier
11-15-2011, 03:33 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


*</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me of*something that I dont agree with. Its not that*I dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments.* No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


I didn't see him say that.* Where did this happen?</P>

Manning said this after the game: “Yeah, that’s something we have to look at. He had an in cut, and maybe he thought that I was scrambling. He was going to try to bang it back out and get open. I thought he was going to stay on the move. Obviously threw it, and the cornerback stayed on the move and caught it.”

This statement implies that the only reason why Manningham shouldn't have stayed on the in-cut was if he thought Manning was scrambling and needed to adjust.

Exactly^^^^^^^

This thread is now starting to make me laugh because I know some people are now just playing dumb.

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 03:37 PM
While I dont blame either Eli or MM for the int... </P>


*</P>


... where's everyone coming up with this "MM did what he was coached to do.."* where's this inside knowledge coming from?* </P>


I can understand yes, if he see's coverage dont run in that direction, but with so many passes being thrown at the same instance of the cut - i find it hard to believe he's coached to break out of the decision he's already made... isnt the "option" of the routes where to cut to... not to "re-option" out of that?</P>

its football 101 that if your QB is avoiding pressure you break off and get open

even if Eli wasnt "scrambling"....I could clearly see Manningham possibly glancing back ...seeing his QB running from pressure and breaking off

its what he is supposed to do

why else would he break off his route?

seriously

is it because of his wonderlic score that so many like to bring up?

no

is it because he figures he was out of the play

no

is it because he decided to give up

no

did he need to tie his shoe and make a phone call

no

he was trying to help out his QB

After watching the replay a couple of times, I think it was "he figures he was out of the play"...probably saw Manning drifting left and figured that the ball was going to go to one of the receivers on the left side (both Jacobs and Nicks were on the left side). Even after the ball was intercepted, he looked like he wasn't paying attention and it took a couple of moments for him to realize that the ball had been intercepted...

gumby742
11-15-2011, 03:41 PM
Eli isn't annoying. His fans are. Geez louise.

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 03:51 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <FONT color=#000080 size=4>That to me</FONT> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</P>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</P>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</P>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</P>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</P>


*</P>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</P>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</P>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</P>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</P>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</P>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</P>


*</P>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</P>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me of*something that I dont agree with. Its not that*I dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</P>


[B]</P>


</P>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments.* No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</P>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</P>


I didn't see him say that.* Where did this happen?</P>

you didnt see it it because Eli never said that

he said Mario probably thought he was scrambling so he broke off to get open......which he should do if he thinks his QB is scrambling

even if Eli wasnt "scrambling"......I could totally understand how Mario looking over could think so in the seconds it takes for a play to unfold

exactly what we are stating a million times in this thread

The fact that you excuse the mistake doesn't make it any less of a mistake.

Here's what we can reasonably assume.

1) Mario was to run a incut

2) Mario didn't run an incut for whatever reason. Possibly because he thought Eli was scrambling

3) Eli was not scrambling.

what else needs to be said?

all good points

but just because Eli threw the ball there doesnt make what Mario did a mistake

it makes it not what Eli thought he would do

its no more or less a mistake than Eli throwing the ball into triple coverage

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 03:53 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <font color="#000080" size="4">That to me</font> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</p>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</p>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</p>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</p>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</p>


</p>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</p>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</p>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</p>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</p>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</p>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</p>


</p>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</p>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</p>


[B]</p>


</p>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments. No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</p>

Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay


when and where did Eli say this?

He was on an 'incut'.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 03:54 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <font color="#000080" size="4">That to me</font> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</p>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</p>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</p>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</p>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</p>


</p>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</p>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</p>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</p>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't. Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</p>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</p>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</p>


</p>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</p>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me ofsomething that I dont agree with. Its not thatI dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</p>


[B]</p>


</p>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments. No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</p>




Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay
</p>


I didn't see him say that. Where did this happen?</p>

in-cut, sorry

go read OP

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 03:57 PM
While I dont blame either Eli or MM for the int... </p>


</p>


... where's everyone coming up with this "MM did what he was coached to do.." where's this inside knowledge coming from? </p>


I can understand yes, if he see's coverage dont run in that direction, but with so many passes being thrown at the same instance of the cut - i find it hard to believe he's coached to break out of the decision he's already made... isnt the "option" of the routes where to cut to... not to "re-option" out of that?</p>

its football 101 that if your QB is avoiding pressure you break off and get open

even if Eli wasnt "scrambling"....I could clearly see Manningham possibly glancing back ...seeing his QB running from pressure and breaking off

its what he is supposed to do

why else would he break off his route?

seriously

is it because of his wonderlic score that so many like to bring up?

no

is it because he figures he was out of the play

no

is it because he decided to give up

no

did he need to tie his shoe and make a phone call

no

he was trying to help out his QB

your being pretty over the top about this and ur starting to make this more than it is.

receivers don't have the luxory of just changing routes whenever they want even if they see it open. Maybe the play was designed so Manningham was suppose to freeze those three defenders to open something else.

Nobody was saying that Manningham wasn't TRYING to do the right thing, but that doesn't mean he did. Could you at least agree that maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but it was actually the wrong thing?

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 03:59 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" <font color="#000080" size="4">That to me</font> means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.</p>


so this thread is titled "Eli clears up the mario INT"...</p>


your post hasn't cleared anything up. Nor did what Eli say clear anything up.</p>


You have cleared it in your mind which what you said when you typed "That to me"....</p>


so you interpret what Eli said and therefor it must be what Eli thinks???</p>


*</p>




well he said Mario was on an in-route, he said he has no idea why Mario stopped running but he wasn't suppose to. That doesn't clear up the fact that Mario made the wrong move?
</p>


nope it doesn't.....He gane Mario an out of he thought Eli was scrambling. Also maybe Mario isnt supposed to run into double or triple covergae there. Maybe he is supposed to stop or cut back.</p>


Either way the OP posts doesnt clear anything up and that was my point</p>




well it does because Eli said he was suppose to be somewhere he wasn't.* Whatever the reason was that he wans't there is moot.*

Again this whole topic is about whose to blame - if a WR isn't where he is suppose to be and the ball is thrown to where the QB thinks hes going to be, then its on the WR
</p>


and I dont blame either Eli nor the receiver. It was a mistake on both parties IMO....</p>


and no matter what you say the OP doesnt not deffinitively clear up anything....</p>


*</p>


The OP is not a miracle worker and wrongly made presumptions regarding reading comprehension</p>


no prob Bro....not dissing you. Just not going to let MMB try to convince me of*something that I dont agree with. Its not that*I dont agree with the idea of MM stopping when he maybe shouldnt of but I did disagree witht he idea that what you posted made that 100% clear. Thats all....</p>


[B]</p>


</p>


Bottom line is that nothing is cleared up by Eli's comments.* No one knows exactly what MM's responsibilities are in that exact situation.</p>

Eli saying that MM should of been on the in-route isn't clear what he should of did? okay


when and where did Eli say this?

He was on an 'incut'.



yeah...Eli is stating the route that Mario was running before he cut off

this proves what?

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:00 PM
uhm, that he was suppose to run the in-cut

I don't know how to say it any different.

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 04:02 PM
While I dont blame either Eli or MM for the int... </p>


*</p>


... where's everyone coming up with this "MM did what he was coached to do.."* where's this inside knowledge coming from?* </p>


I can understand yes, if he see's coverage dont run in that direction, but with so many passes being thrown at the same instance of the cut - i find it hard to believe he's coached to break out of the decision he's already made... isnt the "option" of the routes where to cut to... not to "re-option" out of that?</p>

its football 101 that if your QB is avoiding pressure you break off and get open

even if Eli wasnt "scrambling"....I could clearly see Manningham possibly glancing back ...seeing his QB running from pressure and breaking off

its what he is supposed to do

why else would he break off his route?

seriously

is it because of his wonderlic score that so many like to bring up?

no

is it because he figures he was out of the play

no

is it because he decided to give up

no

did he need to tie his shoe and make a phone call

no

he was trying to help out his QB

your being pretty over the top about this and ur starting to make this more than it is.

receivers don't have the luxory of just changing routes whenever they want even if they see it open.* Maybe the play was designed so Manningham was suppose to freeze those three defenders to open something else.

Nobody was saying that Manningham wasn't TRYING to do the right thing, but that doesn't mean he did. Could you at least agree that maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but it was actually the wrong thing?


oh Im making it more than it is now.....yr a funny guy

and if a receiver feels his QB is scrambling they absolutely have the luxury of breaking off

which whether you believe it or not.....anyone avoiding pressure is "scrambling"

I dont think Mario did anything wrong

Id rather him do what he did than run into triple coverage

he wasnt the only receiver on the field ....Eli had other options

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 04:03 PM
uhm, that he was suppose to run the in-cut

I don't know how to say it any different.


ummm....he broke it off because he thought his QB was in trouble

how thick is your skull bro?

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:03 PM
uhm, that he was suppose to run the in-cut

I don't know how to say it any different.


ummm....he broke it off because he thought his QB was in trouble

how thick is your skull bro?

okay and if he thought wrong that makes him..............

DEgiants89
11-15-2011, 04:08 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

I think Mario stopped cuz he saw all the traffic there. Idk if it was a read or option route (I doubt it) but if he was there, it could have been an incomplete maybe...prolly not a completion though.

YATittle1962
11-15-2011, 04:09 PM
how is that wrong?

Eli is running from a defernder

Im going to go back and count how many times Victor Cruz broke off crossing routes to get away from defenders and turned them into big gains in the last couple games

its at least 3 or 4

if a receiver is in man coverage ...which Mario was....and the QB is out of the pocket.....which Eli was .....they do what they can to get open.....and instead of running toward the coverage he stopped......

and was absolutely wide open may I add

it just didnt work out like it sometimes does

stop making it sound like Mario did something wrong

he did nothing wrong

he was as wrong as Cruz was many times breaking off and getting a completion many times in the last few weeks

jax5338
11-15-2011, 04:13 PM
if eli was indeed "scrambling" however people choose to define it, isnt standard protocol to come back to the QB, rather than break to the opposite side of the field? eli woulda had to throw to the other side of the field in order to hit him, so wasnt an incut back towards eli the best option for any scenario?

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:16 PM
how is that wrong?

Eli is running from a defernder

Im going to go back and count how many times Victor Cruz broke off crossing routes to get away from defenders and turned them into big gains in the last couple games

its at least 3 or 4

if a receiver is in man coverage ...which Mario was....and the QB is out of the pocket.....which Eli was .....they do what they can to get open.....and instead of running toward the coverage he stopped......

and was absolutely wide open may I add

it just didnt work out like it sometimes does

stop making it sound like Mario did something wrong

he did nothing wrong

he was as wrong as Cruz was many times breaking off and getting a completion many times in the last few weeks

pretty much impossible to break it down to you at work, but I will when I get home and can take it step by step

the biggest difference on those plays was that the ball GOT to cruz. Eli wasn't BAFFLED by it.

The mere fact that Eli even phrases it as "Maybe he thought I was scrambling" (or whatever he says) confirms the fact that Eli feels he shouldn't of broke it in.

Running form a defender? I mean define THAT, he didn't even leave the pocket.

Like I said i'll reply to this later when I can re-watch it. But either way, Eli obviously was expecting Manningham to continue that route and could only guess as to why he didnt.

appodictic
11-15-2011, 04:28 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:32 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess

appodictic
11-15-2011, 04:37 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.

burier
11-15-2011, 04:38 PM
this thread has become pure comedy gold.

Ruttiger711
11-15-2011, 04:38 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?


</P>


</P>


So i guess you're turning the fault on Eli for that one?</P>


It was just an unfortunate play - it was overthrown by an inch or mario was slow by an inch - dont act like it was out of the endzone. </P>

burier
11-15-2011, 04:40 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.


Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one.

As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable.

Either way though...the ball was catchable.

appodictic
11-15-2011, 04:42 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?


</p>


</p>


So i guess you're turning the fault on Eli for that one?</p>


It was just an unfortunate play - it was overthrown by an inch or mario was slow by an inch - dont act like it was out of the endzone. </p>

I'm not faulting anyone. I was playing devils advocate. fact is mario brought his A game against SF, and people are getting on him for breaking off a route that may or may have not been running into tripple coverage.

Eli brought his b/b- game. He was too greedy looking to far downfield and not checking down like he did effectively on the first two drives. he heived many passes into double or tripple coverage. And used bad clock managemnt down the stretch,

Joe Morrison
11-15-2011, 04:43 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

Somehow I get the impression you feel better now.

Where I come from an interception is an interception - they all suck.




lmao</P>


Let's make this real simle, Manningham and Nicks don't practice during the week, that's why they make dumb decisions on the field causing bad throws, Manningham and Nicks both checked up, only the Nicks one didn't get picked. And for all the great plays Cruz is making has to make the easy catches.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:43 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.


if u think that was a 1/1000 catch then you need to watch more football

appodictic
11-15-2011, 04:45 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.


Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one.

As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable.

Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.

Drez
11-15-2011, 04:46 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</P>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</P>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</P>

appodictic
11-15-2011, 04:46 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.


if u think that was a 1/1000 catch then you need to watch more football


I do watch football. Like when I watched Eli drop a good pass that caught a running nicks in stride for a TD.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:47 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.


Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one.

As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable.

Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.


im guessing u meant manningham on the diving catch

but who cares if MAnningham would of gotten in or on the 2 yard line with the diving catch. I would hope u agree that even if he made the catch and got touched on the 2 that we would of been in alot better shape and probably tied the game

FUUFNF
11-15-2011, 04:48 PM
If a receiver inexplicably breaks off his route, then that's on the receiver... Not saying that's what happened with Mario, but if so, it's on him.



If a receiver can get both hands on a ball without even laying out for it, that's a catchable ball... In the case with Mario, I wouldn't call that an outright drop, but definitely a catchable ball.

appodictic
11-15-2011, 04:48 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</p>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</p>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</p>

Starting to sound like last years "tipped balls" arguments. Now even if no one is within 20 yards of the pass its still their fault.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:49 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</p>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</p>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</p>

personally it looked like Mario had a flase step in his route. I just have a firm rule, once it hits the WRs in the hands it would have to be a dramatic situations for it not to be on the WR.

Drez
11-15-2011, 04:49 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.
Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one. As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable. Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.
</P>


Manningham would have made it into the endzone if he laid out for it. He had enough seperation that his momentum would have been more than enough to get there without being downed by the defender.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:50 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.


if u think that was a 1/1000 catch then you need to watch more football


I do watch football. Like when I watched Eli drop a good pass that caught a running nicks in stride for a TD.


okay but catches like that happen all over the pros and college. I just highly disagree with you that it was as impossible of a catch as ur suggesting. It should of been made.

No argument it could of been a better ball or maybe Mario tripped, something in the timing could of been better. But it was a catchable ball that wasn't caught

EDIT: with the timing thing, it could of also been a good play with the defender to disrupt the route...

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:52 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</p>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</p>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</p>

Starting to sound like last years "tipped balls" arguments. Now even if no one is within 20 yards of the pass its still their fault.


the tipped ball argument was one of the arguments. WRs not being where they were suppose to be and running the wrong routes were also part of those debates typically

Drez
11-15-2011, 04:52 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</P>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</P>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</P>




personally it looked like Mario had a flase step in his route. I just have a firm rule, once it hits the WRs in the hands it would have to be a dramatic situations for it not to be on the WR.
</P>


Possibly. I haven't looked closely enough at his entire route to agree or disagree with that. But, I'm not going to torch either party on that one. Sure, Mario should have caught it, but it could have been slightly better thrown. Like I said, that was the definition of a just missed play. </P>

appodictic
11-15-2011, 04:53 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.
Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one. As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable. Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.
</p>


Manningham would have made it into the endzone if he laid out for it. He had enough seperation that his momentum would have been more than enough to get there without being downed by the defender.</p>

I am just constantly frustrated by everyone trying to pick apart Mario Manningham. He had a good game. Lets be real. Cruz dropped an easy one, and in the end zone cruz and ballard were in the same part of the field, eli through a pass that got batted down. Those were the plays that probably had the most effect on us loosing the game.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:55 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</p>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</p>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</p>




personally it looked like Mario had a flase step in his route. I just have a firm rule, once it hits the WRs in the hands it would have to be a dramatic situations for it not to be on the WR.
</p>


Possibly. I haven't looked closely enough at his entire route to agree or disagree with that. But, I'm not going to torch either party on that one. Sure, Mario should have caught it, but it could have been slightly better thrown. Like I said, that was the definition of a just missed play. </p>

I'm personally not torching Mario at all. We're discussing the game and basically playing the blame game. On those two specific plays, with comments and evidence supported im going to say it was more on Mario than anything

And not just because its Mario, i actually love Mario. I have supported him on here A TON while people for osme reaosn have been suggesting hes garbage. I apply this to any QB/WR situation, if the ball is hitting the WR in the hands its on the WR. I find it true 99% of the time

Drez
11-15-2011, 04:56 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</P>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</P>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</P>




Now even if no one is within 20 yards of the pass its still their fault.
</P>


I'd respond to you in some constructive way, but I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. </P>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:58 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.
Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one. As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable. Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.
</p>


Manningham would have made it into the endzone if he laid out for it. He had enough seperation that his momentum would have been more than enough to get there without being downed by the defender.</p>

I am just constantly frustrated by everyone trying to pick apart Mario Manningham. He had a good game. Lets be real. Cruz dropped an easy one, and in the end zone cruz and ballard were in the same part of the field, eli through a pass that got batted down. Those were the plays that probably had the most effect on us loosing the game.


i agree people getting on Mario for alot of stupid things, some deserved

but we're talking about a specific play and what happened, then you brought up another specific play and it just happens that in thos einstances i would say Mario would be the guilty party of why the play wasn't successful.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 04:59 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</p>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</p>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</p>




Now even if no one is within 20 yards of the pass its still their fault.
</p>


I'd respond to you in some constructive way, but I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. </p>

i think hes referring to the 2nd pick because Mario wasn't there

Drez
11-15-2011, 05:02 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.
Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one. As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable. Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.
</P>


Manningham would have made it into the endzone if he laid out for it. He had enough seperation that his momentum would have been more than enough to get there without being downed by the defender.</P>




I am just constantly frustrated by everyone trying to pick apart Mario Manningham. He had a good game. Lets be real. Cruz dropped an easy one, and in the end zone cruz and ballard were in the same part of the field, eli through a pass that got batted down. Those were the plays that probably had the most effect on us loosing the game.
</P>


The pick after the Cruz drop led to 3 points. The pick after the Manningham running the wrong route led to 7 points... I'll let you decide which one had more impact on the final score... But, here's a hint 3&lt;7.</P>


Also, on the final play of the game, Willis damn near form tackled Ballard off the line so he wasn't able to finish he route and clear the area which is what caused the congestion there. It wasn't Ballard nor Cruz's fault (unless you want to say that Ballard should have just fallen down and probably drawn the defensive holding flag instead of trying to fight through it and finish his route). Who knows what that area would have looked like if Ballard was able to release into his route. It's possible that Eli would have had a nice clean window and Smith doesn't bat the ball down. Maybe not. </P>

appodictic
11-15-2011, 05:02 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</p>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</p>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</p>




personally it looked like Mario had a flase step in his route. I just have a firm rule, once it hits the WRs in the hands it would have to be a dramatic situations for it not to be on the WR.
</p>


Possibly. I haven't looked closely enough at his entire route to agree or disagree with that. But, I'm not going to torch either party on that one. Sure, Mario should have caught it, but it could have been slightly better thrown. Like I said, that was the definition of a just missed play. </p>

I'm personally not torching Mario at all. We're discussing the game and basically playing the blame game. On those two specific plays, with comments and evidence supported im going to say it was more on Mario than anything

And not just because its Mario, i actually love Mario. I have supported him on here A TON while people for osme reaosn have been suggesting hes garbage. I apply this to any QB/WR situation, if the ball is hitting the WR in the hands its on the WR. I find it true 99% of the time


Eli has been pretty spot on passing wise, but there are times where a pass is a little off the mark and we turn a home run play into nothing or just a catch.

For example, we had a catch to cruz a long 25? yarder where if the ball was slightly less to the left Cruz could have caught it and ran for the endzone. Instead he caught it and was carried out of bounds. So there are times where on big passes Eli is a hair off and it hurts our big play ability.

Long passes are not going to be perfect but that is the difference in this game. A pass just a little bit past manningham, a pass that took cruz out of bounds, a pass at the feet of nicks. We need to not be playing from behind all the time.

Drez
11-15-2011, 05:03 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</P>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</P>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</P>




Now even if no one is within 20 yards of the pass its still their fault.
</P>


I'd respond to you in some constructive way, but I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. </P>




i think hes referring to the 2nd pick because Mario wasn't there
</P>


But, if Mario decided to run 10 yards in the opposite direction, then it would be his fault. It's just a shoddy assertion.</P>

burier
11-15-2011, 05:05 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.
Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one. As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable. Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.
</P>


Manningham would have made it into the endzone if he laid out for it. He had enough seperation that his momentum would have been more than enough to get there without being downed by the defender.</P>




I am just constantly frustrated by everyone trying to pick apart Mario Manningham. He had a good game. Lets be real. Cruz dropped an easy one, and in the end zone cruz and ballard were in the same part of the field, eli through a pass that got batted down. Those were the plays that probably had the most effect on us loosing the game.
</P>


The pick after the Cruz drop led to 3 points. The pick after the Manningham running the wrong route led to 7 points... I'll let you decide which one had more impact on the final score... But, here's a hint 3<7.</P>


Also, on the final play of the game, Willis damn near form tackled Ballard off the line so he wasn't able to finish he route and clear the area which is what caused the congestion there. It wasn't Ballard nor Cruz's fault (unless you want to say that Ballard should have just fallen down and probably drawn the defensive holding flag instead of trying to fight through it and finish his route). Who knows what that area would have looked like if Ballard was able to release into his route. It's possible that Eli would have had a nice clean window and Smith doesn't bat the ball down. Maybe not. </P>

I'm pretty sure the pick after the Cruz drop resulted in zero points

Drez
11-15-2011, 05:05 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</P>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</P>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</P>




personally it looked like Mario had a flase step in his route. I just have a firm rule, once it hits the WRs in the hands it would have to be a dramatic situations for it not to be on the WR.
</P>


Possibly. I haven't looked closely enough at his entire route to agree or disagree with that. But, I'm not going to torch either party on that one. Sure, Mario should have caught it, but it could have been slightly better thrown. Like I said, that was the definition of a just missed play. </P>




I'm personally not torching Mario at all. We're discussing the game and basically playing the blame game. On those two specific plays, with comments and evidence supported im going to say it was more on Mario than anything

And not just because its Mario, i actually love Mario. I have supported him on here A TON while people for osme reaosn have been suggesting hes garbage. I apply this to any QB/WR situation, if the ball is hitting the WR in the hands its on the WR. I find it true 99% of the time


Eli has been pretty spot on passing wise, but there are times where a pass is a little off the mark and we turn a home run play into nothing or just a catch.

For example, we had a catch to cruz a long 25? yarder where if the ball was slightly less to the left Cruz could have caught it and ran for the endzone. Instead he caught it and was carried out of bounds. So there are times where on big passes Eli is a hair off and it hurts our big play ability.

Long passes are not going to be perfect but that is the difference in this game. A pass just a little bit past manningham, a pass that took cruz out of bounds, a pass at the feet of nicks. We need to not be playing from behind all the time.
</P>


Or alternately we could say that if Cruz had slightly better body control/awareness he could have gotten himself under that pass without being at an angle that would have taken him out of bounds.</P>

Drez
11-15-2011, 05:07 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.
Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one. As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable. Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.
</P>


Manningham would have made it into the endzone if he laid out for it. He had enough seperation that his momentum would have been more than enough to get there without being downed by the defender.</P>




I am just constantly frustrated by everyone trying to pick apart Mario Manningham. He had a good game. Lets be real. Cruz dropped an easy one, and in the end zone cruz and ballard were in the same part of the field, eli through a pass that got batted down. Those were the plays that probably had the most effect on us loosing the game.
</P>


The pick after the Cruz drop led to 3 points. The pick after the Manningham running the wrong route led to 7 points... I'll let you decide which one had more impact on the final score... But, here's a hint 3&lt;7.</P>


Also, on the final play of the game, Willis damn near form tackled Ballard off the line so he wasn't able to finish he route and clear the area which is what caused the congestion there. It wasn't Ballard nor Cruz's fault (unless you want to say that Ballard should have just fallen down and probably drawn the defensive holding flag instead of trying to fight through it and finish his route). Who knows what that area would have looked like if Ballard was able to release into his route. It's possible that Eli would have had a nice clean window and Smith doesn't bat the ball down. Maybe not. </P>


I'm pretty sure the pick after the Cruz drop resulted in zero points</P>


Actually, yes, you are right. Webster picked off Smith on that drive. My apologies.</P>


So, that strengthens my argument even more. 0&lt;7. That interception had even less impact than if they had scored a FG. </P>

appodictic
11-15-2011, 05:10 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</p>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</p>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</p>




personally it looked like Mario had a flase step in his route. I just have a firm rule, once it hits the WRs in the hands it would have to be a dramatic situations for it not to be on the WR.
</p>


Possibly. I haven't looked closely enough at his entire route to agree or disagree with that. But, I'm not going to torch either party on that one. Sure, Mario should have caught it, but it could have been slightly better thrown. Like I said, that was the definition of a just missed play. </p>




I'm personally not torching Mario at all. We're discussing the game and basically playing the blame game. On those two specific plays, with comments and evidence supported im going to say it was more on Mario than anything

And not just because its Mario, i actually love Mario. I have supported him on here A TON while people for osme reaosn have been suggesting hes garbage. I apply this to any QB/WR situation, if the ball is hitting the WR in the hands its on the WR. I find it true 99% of the time


Eli has been pretty spot on passing wise, but there are times where a pass is a little off the mark and we turn a home run play into nothing or just a catch.

For example, we had a catch to cruz a long 25? yarder where if the ball was slightly less to the left Cruz could have caught it and ran for the endzone. Instead he caught it and was carried out of bounds. So there are times where on big passes Eli is a hair off and it hurts our big play ability.

Long passes are not going to be perfect but that is the difference in this game. A pass just a little bit past manningham, a pass that took cruz out of bounds, a pass at the feet of nicks. We need to not be playing from behind all the time.
</p>


Or alternately we could say that if Cruz had slightly better body control/awareness he could have gotten himself under that pass without being at an angle that would have taken him out of bounds.</p>

Not in that case. Cruz was aware he had a step and was at the hash mark, eli through it to the sideline.

Also on this thread I have to say, it is great Eli explained "what happened". What did he say about the int to cruz after he was covered, or the almost pick to cruz when he was double covered. Eli was not seeing the field well that game, i would want to watch the play again and see "if he was covered" I dont trust joe buck and aikman. they said it was a "good punt" until it went out of bounds at the 50, being a 29 yard punt.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 05:12 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</p>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</p>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</p>




personally it looked like Mario had a flase step in his route. I just have a firm rule, once it hits the WRs in the hands it would have to be a dramatic situations for it not to be on the WR.
</p>


Possibly. I haven't looked closely enough at his entire route to agree or disagree with that. But, I'm not going to torch either party on that one. Sure, Mario should have caught it, but it could have been slightly better thrown. Like I said, that was the definition of a just missed play. </p>




I'm personally not torching Mario at all. We're discussing the game and basically playing the blame game. On those two specific plays, with comments and evidence supported im going to say it was more on Mario than anything

And not just because its Mario, i actually love Mario. I have supported him on here A TON while people for osme reaosn have been suggesting hes garbage. I apply this to any QB/WR situation, if the ball is hitting the WR in the hands its on the WR. I find it true 99% of the time


Eli has been pretty spot on passing wise, but there are times where a pass is a little off the mark and we turn a home run play into nothing or just a catch.

For example, we had a catch to cruz a long 25? yarder where if the ball was slightly less to the left Cruz could have caught it and ran for the endzone. Instead he caught it and was carried out of bounds. So there are times where on big passes Eli is a hair off and it hurts our big play ability.

Long passes are not going to be perfect but that is the difference in this game. A pass just a little bit past manningham, a pass that took cruz out of bounds, a pass at the feet of nicks. We need to not be playing from behind all the time.
</p>


Or alternately we could say that if Cruz had slightly better body control/awareness he could have gotten himself under that pass without being at an angle that would have taken him out of bounds.</p>

Not in that case. Cruz was aware he had a step and was at the hash mark, eli through it to the sideline.

Also on this thread I have to say, it is great Eli explained "what happened". What did he say about the int to cruz after he was covered, or the almost pick to cruz when he was double covered. Eli was not seeing the field well that game, i would want to watch the play again and see "if he was covered" I dont trust joe buck and aikman. they said it was a "good punt" until it went out of bounds at the 50, being a 29 yard punt.


i got it on DVR. I'll let u know around 5:30 est

Drez
11-15-2011, 05:13 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess
</P>


That one was both an overthrow by Eli and MM not doing enough to catch it. That play was the definition of 50/50 blame allocation and it being a just missed play.</P>


The second pick was definitely due to Mario breaking off his route.</P>




personally it looked like Mario had a flase step in his route. I just have a firm rule, once it hits the WRs in the hands it would have to be a dramatic situations for it not to be on the WR.
</P>


Possibly. I haven't looked closely enough at his entire route to agree or disagree with that. But, I'm not going to torch either party on that one. Sure, Mario should have caught it, but it could have been slightly better thrown. Like I said, that was the definition of a just missed play. </P>




I'm personally not torching Mario at all. We're discussing the game and basically playing the blame game. On those two specific plays, with comments and evidence supported im going to say it was more on Mario than anything

And not just because its Mario, i actually love Mario. I have supported him on here A TON while people for osme reaosn have been suggesting hes garbage. I apply this to any QB/WR situation, if the ball is hitting the WR in the hands its on the WR. I find it true 99% of the time


Eli has been pretty spot on passing wise, but there are times where a pass is a little off the mark and we turn a home run play into nothing or just a catch.

For example, we had a catch to cruz a long 25? yarder where if the ball was slightly less to the left Cruz could have caught it and ran for the endzone. Instead he caught it and was carried out of bounds. So there are times where on big passes Eli is a hair off and it hurts our big play ability.

Long passes are not going to be perfect but that is the difference in this game. A pass just a little bit past manningham, a pass that took cruz out of bounds, a pass at the feet of nicks. We need to not be playing from behind all the time.
</P>


Or alternately we could say that if Cruz had slightly better body control/awareness he could have gotten himself under that pass without being at an angle that would have taken him out of bounds.</P>




Not in that case. Cruz was aware he had a step and was at the hash mark, eli through it to the sideline.

Also on this thread I have to say, it is great Eli explained "what happened". What did he say about the int to cruz after he was covered, or the almost pick to cruz when he was double covered. Eli was not seeing the field well that game, i would want to watch the play again and see "if he was covered" I dont trust joe buck and aikman. they said it was a "good punt" until it went out of bounds at the 50, being a 29 yard punt.
</P>


I'm sure if Eli was asked about either of those he'd say that he made a bad decision, bad throw, or both, though the safety did make a great break on the ball on that near pick.</P>

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 05:13 PM
There is nothing wrong with MM "breaking off the route" and moving to his left to an open spot. It was late in the play, Eli had already made one move in the pocket. We hear all the time about the sight adjustments WR's make in KG's system. The problem came when MM's fake to the inside to break open happened at the exact same time that Eli decided to throw the ball. If the decision came a split second later, he probably would have seen MM break it outside and thrown it there. </P>


As i said, WE DON"T KNOW what the options were for MM in that play in KG's offense.</P>


So the "he should have continued his route" statements are uninformed.</P>

Drez
11-15-2011, 05:17 PM
There is nothing wrong with MM "breaking off the route" and moving to his left to an open spot. It was late in the play, Eli had already made one move in the pocket. We hear all the time about the sight adjustments WR's make in KG's system. The problem came when MM's fake to the inside to break open happened at the exact same time that Eli decided to throw the ball. If the decision came a split second later, he probably would have seen MM break it outside and thrown it there. </P>


As i said, WE DON"T KNOW what the options MM were for MM in that play in KG's offense.</P>


So the "he should have continued his route" statements are uninformed.</P>


</P>


Except for the fact that Eli said, "He was on an in-cut. Maybe he thought I was scrambling and broke off the route."</P>


That seems pretty clear that MM wasn't on a sight adjustment or an option on that play.</P>


Maybe MM thought that Eli was scrambling out of the pocket and thought he was doing the right thing by breaking off the route, but is still doesn't change the fact that Eli wasn't scrambling out of the pocket and subsequently threw the ball to where MM should have been had he continued to run the proper route.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 05:20 PM
There is nothing wrong with MM "breaking off the route" and moving to his left to an open spot. It was late in the play, Eli had already made one move in the pocket. We hear all the time about the sight adjustments WR's make in KG's system. The problem came when MM's fake to the inside to break open happened at the exact same time that Eli decided to throw the ball. If the decision came a split second later, he probably would have seen MM break it outside and thrown it there. </p>


As i said, WE DON"T KNOW what the options were for MM in that play in KG's offense.</p>


So the "he should have continued his route" statements are uninformed.</p>

It doesn't make sense how it could of happened late in the play if he made the decision before he made the in-move

G-Man67
11-15-2011, 05:25 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>

as lawl just told you - not EVERY single route has that option on every play or we'd have ALOT of WRs running to the same place



agreed this was not an option route ... Eli said maybe he thought i was out of the pocket, which tells you it wasnt an option route, otherwise, he would have said he read it differently or whatever ... i just disagree that hoping for anything more than an incompletion or penalty is that realistic with all the defenders in the neighborhood ... didnt look like a catch was about to happen to me

burier
11-15-2011, 05:30 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>

as lawl just told you - not EVERY single route has that option on every play or we'd have ALOT of WRs running to the same place



agreed this was not an option route ... Eli said maybe he thought i was out of the pocket, which tells you it wasnt an option route, otherwise, he would have said he read it differently or whatever ... i just disagree that hoping for anything more than an incompletion or penalty is that realistic with all the defenders in the neighborhood ... didnt look like a catch was about to happen to me

there were alot of defenders but if you cosider where the ball was place I see Mario going low for a routine completion.

G-Man67
11-15-2011, 05:37 PM
there were alot of defenders but if you cosider where the ball was place I see Mario going low for a routine completion.

maybe so, but i think those that are crucifying Mario are a bit off base and not fully understanding everything that is part of the passing offense ... even though this wasnt an option route ... there are still things that go on that cause routes to be broken off ... if Eli had held it a split second more (not blaming him though) and sees Mario moving towards space ... maybe that works for a bigger play ... it's just way too over-simple to say Mario's brain shut off and we ended up with a game changing turnover against us



you think Welker and Brady just run and throw robotic routes ... there's chemistry that builds up between QB and WR and not every play that we see happen out there was executed exactly as drawn on the chalk board ... just a very tough play and a missed opportunity for a nice road win

Ruttiger711
11-15-2011, 05:43 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense. MM didn't do anything wrong. He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary. The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</P>


Just one of those things. Not the fault of Manningham at all.</P>




as lawl just told you - not EVERY single route has that option on every play or we'd have ALOT of WRs running to the same place

agreed this was not an option route ... Eli said maybe he thought i was out of the pocket, which tells you it wasnt an option route, otherwise, he would have said he read it differently or whatever ... i just disagree that hoping for anything more than an incompletion or penalty is that realistic with all the defenders in the neighborhood ... didnt look like a catch was about to happen to me</P>


</P>


totally agree with this... kind of a gaff on both - probably not the best idea to throw to Manningham period... i think even if Manningham continues, Rodgers still has a better position....BUTif he finished the route - MM fighting for the ball at least he could have played defender and broken it up. </P>

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 05:44 PM
There is nothing wrong with MM "breaking off the route" and moving to his left to an open spot. It was late in the play, Eli had already made one move in the pocket. We hear all the time about the sight adjustments WR's make in KG's system. The problem came when MM's fake to the inside to break open happened at the exact same time that Eli decided to throw the ball. If the decision came a split second later, he probably would have seen MM break it outside and thrown it there. </P>


As i said, WE DON"T KNOW what the options were for MM in that play in KG's offense.</P>


So the "he should have continued his route" statements are uninformed.</P>




It doesn't make sense how it could of happened late in the play if he made the decision before he made the in-move
</P>


The throw came almost 4 seconds after the snap. Thats late. How long do you think it takes to run a 15 yard square in?</P>

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 05:55 PM
uhm, that he was suppose to run the in-cut

I don't know how to say it any different.


ummm....he broke it off because he thought his QB was in trouble

how thick is your skull bro?

If Manningham thought Eli was in trouble, why would he break his route and stay on the opposite side of the field from where Eli was drifting/scrambling?

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 05:57 PM
uhm, that he was suppose to run the in-cut

I don't know how to say it any different.
ummm....he broke it off because he thought his QB was in trouble how thick is your skull bro? If Manningham thought Eli was in trouble, why would he break his route and stay on the opposite side of the field from where Eli was drifting/scrambling?</P>


Well he went to an open spot instead of running into a cluster of defenders. </P>

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 06:03 PM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.
Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one. As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable. Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.
</p>


Manningham would have made it into the endzone if he laid out for it. He had enough seperation that his momentum would have been more than enough to get there without being downed by the defender.</p>

I am just constantly frustrated by everyone trying to pick apart Mario Manningham. He had a good game. Lets be real. Cruz dropped an easy one, and in the end zone cruz and ballard were in the same part of the field, eli through a pass that got batted down. Those were the plays that probably had the most effect on us loosing the game.


I don't think anyone is saying he didn't have a good game...just talking about one play, right?

burier
11-15-2011, 06:06 PM
Just one play in a vaccume. I think most of us like Mario as a player.

just a talking point.

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 06:16 PM
uhm, that he was suppose to run the in-cut

I don't know how to say it any different.
ummm....he broke it off because he thought his QB was in trouble how thick is your skull bro? If Manningham thought Eli was in trouble, why would he break his route and stay on the opposite side of the field from where Eli was drifting/scrambling?</p>


Well he went to an open spot instead of running into a cluster of defenders. </p>

if he would continued in he would of had a completion pending him making the catch

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 06:16 PM
Just one play in a vaccume. I think most of us like Mario as a player.

just a talking point.

yea thats all it is for me

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 06:18 PM
uhm, that he was suppose to run the in-cut

I don't know how to say it any different.
ummm....he broke it off because he thought his QB was in trouble how thick is your skull bro? If Manningham thought Eli was in trouble, why would he break his route and stay on the opposite side of the field from where Eli was drifting/scrambling?</P>


Well he went to an open spot instead of running into a cluster of defenders.*** </P>

Where was the cluster of defenders? At the point where he broke the route, the middle of the field was pretty open....two safeties deep which he would have easily run underneath of, and one LB below him who was low in the box for the first 3 seconds of the play before starting to drift back...and then there was Rogers, who was manned-up on Manningham. So there was not a "cluster of defenders" in the area where Manningham's route was supposed to go at the point where he cut the route short.

yoeddy
11-15-2011, 06:24 PM
Making sight adjustments and breaking off routes is part of our offense.* MM didn't do anything wrong.* He faked the guy inside and went outside to an open spot in the secondary.* The timing of Eli's pass just happened to be at the exact time MM made the move inside.</p>


Just one of those things.** Not the fault of Manningham at all.</p>

as lawl just told you - not EVERY single route has that option on every play or we'd have ALOT of WRs running to the same place



agreed this was not an option route ... Eli said maybe he thought i was out of the pocket, which tells you it wasnt an option route, otherwise, he would have said he read it differently or whatever ... i just disagree that hoping for anything more than an incompletion or penalty is that realistic with all the defenders in the neighborhood ... didnt look like a catch was about to happen to me

there were alot of defenders but if you cosider where the ball was place I see Mario going low for a routine completion.

Regarding this "a lot of defenders" thing...please look at the replay. the Niners lined 5 guys on the LOS, had two LBs in the box, and then had the CBs man-coverage on Manningham and Nicks and the safeties playing Cover-2 deep. Jacobs slipped out of the backfield to the left side, and he had 3 defenders cover his zone. Nicks went deep, keeping one of the safeties up high. At the point where Eli "scrambled" (ie. took two steps to his left), the LB in the box who didn't go to cover Jacobs dropped back a few steps, but by no means was he in the in-cut lane that Mario's route was supposed to go.

As I've said before in this thread...after watching the reply a dozen times, it appears to me that Mario gave up on the play because Eli drifted left and Mario likely figured that the ball was going to go to Nicks.

NYGRealityCheck
11-15-2011, 06:45 PM
10 pages so far on this...

It was Manningham, it was Eli, it was I think we definitely over-analyzed this more than the players themselves because they're definitely focused on putting away the Eagles for good on Sunday by now...

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 07:12 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 07:22 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli
</P>


Who are you and what have you done with Meyerbud?</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 07:23 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli
</p>


Who are you and what have you done with Meyerbud?</p>

unlike you, i can admit when i'm wrong

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 07:25 PM
also in reference to the dropped ball in front of the endzone - completely on manningham

he actually had it with one hand and when he went to secure it he knocked it out of his hand.

110% on Mario with that. That should of been caught and that should of been a Td

MattMeyerBud
11-15-2011, 07:26 PM
and it absolutely would of been a TD

FUUFNF
11-15-2011, 07:31 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


Care to elaborate on your findings?

Delicreep
11-15-2011, 07:40 PM
and it absolutely would of been a TD


sent a PM to you, pic included!

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 08:23 PM
also in reference to the dropped ball in front of the endzone - completely on manningham

he actually had it with one hand and when he went to secure it he knocked it out of his hand.

110% on Mario with that. That should of been caught and that should of been a Td

</P>


He definately had a good opportunity to catch it. Good throw.</P>

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 08:24 PM
and it absolutely would of been a TD


sent a PM to you, pic included!
</P>


Please tell me you are fully clothed in this picture.</P>

Delicreep
11-15-2011, 08:42 PM
and it absolutely would of been a TD


sent a PM to you, pic included!
</p>


Please tell me you are fully clothed in this picture.</p>
It's an avatar for a poster who lost a bet

I will PM you the link

Morehead State
11-15-2011, 08:49 PM
and it absolutely would of been a TD


sent a PM to you, pic included!
</P>


Please tell me you are fully clothed in this picture.</P>



It's an avatar for a poster who lost a bet

I will PM you the link


</P>


Sure it is.</P>

RobCarpenter
11-15-2011, 09:23 PM
"Interesting" thread.</P>


Seems like there may be too little info available for anyone to draw too strong of a conclusion.</P>


Considering Eli's nature, I do think it's reasonable for someone to interpret Eli's commentsasa polite way of saying: "I don't know why MM cut off the dang route, I guess he thought I was scrambling or something"...but we'll never know for sure unlessEli elaborates more on his comment.</P>


I don't think anyone is or would try to suggest that MM was trying to intentionally do something wrong. I would think everyone would agree he had good intentions. [Note: I do think its reasonable to have some doubts about his football smarts in general though....but don't know if that was a factor in this specific play or not]. </P>


Seems like the INT is either MM's fault, Eli's fault, or neithers fault (**** happens when quick decisions have to be made by multiple playerswith the hope thatthey are on the same page). </P>


I did find this thread interesting in that YA suggeststhatits no one's fault (i.e., basicaly Eli threw the ball where he thought MM would be, but unfortunately MM cut-off the route at the time Eli was throwing it...basically a "**** happens."</P>


Meanwhile,Morehead claims (with what appears to be absolute confidence) it was NOT MM's fault.Seems like an overly confident and unsupported statementconsidering none of us know for sure what play was called; what optionsmight be allowed on that play, if any; what MM was coached todo in such a situation; etc, etc.. At the same time, MS nevers says the converse....i.e., that it wasn't Eli's fault either....so one couldpotentially deduce that MS is implying it was Eli's fault.... </P>


So to clarify the thread, my question is: Morehead, do you think this INT was Eli's fault or does he deserve the same confident absolutionthat you gave to MM? If not, why not?</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>

Sarcasman
11-15-2011, 10:31 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario.

Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route?

Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked.

The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders.

Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of

"We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket"

That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault.

From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

Somehow I get the impression you feel better now.

Where I come from an interception is an interception - they all suck.






^
The thread should have ended right here.

THEMASTER
11-15-2011, 10:41 PM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

Somehow I get the impression you feel better now.

Where I come from an interception is an interception - they all suck.</P>


Thanx Rosie, funny how the guy who throws the balkl from the safety of the pocket (not scrambling) is obsolved of blame......the INT was Eli's, no big deal.......




</P>

NYtoSanDiego
11-15-2011, 11:15 PM
i was at the game and just finishedwatching thebroadcast which was painful. especially the 3rd 4th down play which i swear in my mind i still thinkthey were going to make it. </P>


the play was a sight adjusment by mario for sure and not because he saw his qb roll out of the pocket butbased on coverage. the saftey, lb and his corner were all going to bein that area where the ball was thrown so he adjusted his route. </P>


in this case both misread the play which is the ugly side of the side of the giants pass offense. if they had no site adjustments at all mario would have kept running the deep in cut and who knows it could've been a completion or it could've been picked off if mario doesn't secure the catch, or he would've been blasted by the safety and the ball bounces and gets picked off by LB or CB.</P>


the giant players and coachesare always hush-hush about discussing anyplays and if they doit doesn't really answer the question. that's why i said mangini break down on First Take on monday was the best analysis of what went wrong. manginibeingwith the patriots is quite familiar with the giants offense since the patriots run something similar. </P>

ShakeNBake
11-15-2011, 11:32 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]

Roosevelt
11-16-2011, 12:05 AM
So we had a little debate going on about what happened on that INT to Mario. Did Mario hang his QB out to dry by not finnishing his route? Did Mario make the proper sight adjustment and Eli missed it causing the ball to get picked. The problem I had with the Idea that Eli missed the read is that though there were defenders in the area he puts the ball low so that Mario could safely make the grab showing me that Eli indeed saw the defenders. Then I listen to Eli's post game and he says it...Something to the affect of "We'll have to look at that one. He was on an 'incut'. I don't know what happened maybe he thought I was outside the pocket" That to me means there was no sight adjustment on that route for Mario to break it outside and that the INT is Marios fault. From the QBs lips to Gods ears.

Somehow I get the impression you feel better now.

Where I come from an interception is an interception - they all suck.</p>


Thanx Rosie, funny how the guy who throws the balkl from the safety of the pocket (not scrambling) is obsolved of blame......the INT was Eli's, no big deal.......




</p>

Is it really necessary for us to lay the blame on anybody? Eli's been great. Mario's been great.
**** happens.

I'm more concerned about our defense than anything else.

I don't think anyone one of us thought Eli and our O couldn't pull it out in the end.

Harooni
11-16-2011, 12:09 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]

zimonami
11-16-2011, 12:27 AM
"Interesting" thread.</P>


Seems like there may be too little info available for anyone to draw too strong of a conclusion.</P>


Considering Eli's nature, I do think it's reasonable for someone to interpret Eli's commentsasa polite way of saying: "I don't know why MM cut off the dang route, I guess he thought I was scrambling or something"...but we'll never know for sure unlessEli elaborates more on his comment.</P>


I don't think anyone is or would try to suggest that MM was trying to intentionally do something wrong. I would think everyone would agree he had good intentions. [Note: I do think its reasonable to have some doubts about his football smarts in general though....but don't know if that was a factor in this specific play or not]. </P>


Seems like the INT is either MM's fault, Eli's fault, or neithers fault (**** happens when quick decisions have to be made by multiple playerswith the hope thatthey are on the same page). </P>


I did find this thread interesting in that YA suggeststhatits no one's fault (i.e., basicaly Eli threw the ball where he thought MM would be, but unfortunately MM cut-off the route at the time Eli was throwing it...basically a "**** happens."</P>


Meanwhile,Morehead claims (with what appears to be absolute confidence) it was NOT MM's fault.Seems like an overly confident and unsupported statementconsidering none of us know for sure what play was called; what optionsmight be allowed on that play, if any; what MM was coached todo in such a situation; etc, etc.. At the same time, MS nevers says the converse....i.e., that it wasn't Eli's fault either....so one couldpotentially deduce that MS is implying it was Eli's fault.... </P>


So to clarify the thread, my question is: Morehead, do you think this INT was Eli's fault or does he deserve the same confident absolutionthat you gave to MM? If not, why not?</P>


</P>


We always want to afix blame. I feel, like YA, that **** happens. Bottom line, Eli and Mario are too frequently not on the same page. Eli isn't as tuned in to Mario as much as he was with Smith, and now Nicks. We all know Mario has taken a long time learning all his play responsibilities, which was why he had so little game time his rookie year. The talent is there, but it seems to be taking longer than usual for him and Eli tohave a feel foreach other.</P>

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 12:33 AM
*i was at the game and just finished*watching the*broadcast which was painful. especially the 3rd 4th down play which i swear in my mind i still think*they were going to make it. *</P>


the play was a sight adjusment by mario for sure and not because he saw his qb roll out of the pocket but*based on coverage. the saftey, lb and his corner were all going to be*in that area where the ball was thrown so he adjusted his route. </P>


in this case both misread the play which is the ugly side of the side of the giants pass offense. if they had no site adjustments at all mario would have kept running the deep in cut and who knows it could've been a completion or it could've been picked off if mario doesn't secure the catch, or he would've been blasted by the safety and the ball bounces and gets picked off by LB or CB.</P>


the giant players and coaches*are always hush-hush about discussing any*plays and if they do*it doesn't really answer the question. that's why i said mangini break down on First Take on monday was the best analysis of what went wrong. mangini*being*with the patriots is quite familiar with the giants offense since the patriots run something similar. *</P>

If this were true, then the INT was clearly Eli's fault, because if the safeties were really coming down to cover that area, then Nicks was in single coverage deep and Eli should have gone there....

zimonami
11-16-2011, 12:41 AM
"Interesting" thread.</P>


Seems like there may be too little info available for anyone to draw too strong of a conclusion.</P>


Considering Eli's nature, I do think it's reasonable for someone to interpret Eli's commentsasa polite way of saying: "I don't know why MM cut off the dang route, I guess he thought I was scrambling or something"...but we'll never know for sure unlessEli elaborates more on his comment.</P>


I don't think anyone is or would try to suggest that MM was trying to intentionally do something wrong. I would think everyone would agree he had good intentions. [Note: I do think its reasonable to have some doubts about his football smarts in general though....but don't know if that was a factor in this specific play or not]. </P>


Seems like the INT is either MM's fault, Eli's fault, or neithers fault (**** happens when quick decisions have to be made by multiple playerswith the hope thatthey are on the same page). </P>


I did find this thread interesting in that YA suggeststhatits no one's fault (i.e., basicaly Eli threw the ball where he thought MM would be, but unfortunately MM cut-off the route at the time Eli was throwing it...basically a "**** happens."</P>


Meanwhile,Morehead claims (with what appears to be absolute confidence) it was NOT MM's fault.Seems like an overly confident and unsupported statementconsidering none of us know for sure what play was called; what optionsmight be allowed on that play, if any; what MM was coached todo in such a situation; etc, etc.. At the same time, MS nevers says the converse....i.e., that it wasn't Eli's fault either....so one couldpotentially deduce that MS is implying it was Eli's fault.... </P>


So to clarify the thread, my question is: Morehead, do you think this INT was Eli's fault or does he deserve the same confident absolutionthat you gave to MM? If not, why not?</P>


</P>


We always want to afix blame. **** happens. Bottom line, Eli and Mario are too frequently not on the same page. Eli isn't as tuned in to Mario as much as he was with Smith, and now with Nicks. We all know Mario has taken a long time learning all his play responsibilities, which was why he had so little game time his rookie year. The talent is there, but it seems to be taking longer than usual for him and Eli tohave a feel foreach other.</P>

NoHuddle10
11-16-2011, 03:45 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

gumby742
11-16-2011, 09:36 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

Why am i not surprised. Btw, you never answered my question. What is so difficult about football to understand?

RobCarpenter
11-16-2011, 09:40 AM
"Interesting" thread.</P>


Seems like there may be too little info available for anyone to draw too strong of a conclusion.</P>


Considering Eli's nature, I do think it's reasonable for someone to interpret Eli's commentsasa polite way of saying: "I don't know why MM cut off the dang route, I guess he thought I was scrambling or something"...but we'll never know for sure unlessEli elaborates more on his comment.</P>


I don't think anyone is or would try to suggest that MM was trying to intentionally do something wrong. I would think everyone would agree he had good intentions. [Note: I do think its reasonable to have some doubts about his football smarts in general though....but don't know if that was a factor in this specific play or not]. </P>


Seems like the INT is either MM's fault, Eli's fault, or neithers fault (**** happens when quick decisions have to be made by multiple playerswith the hope thatthey are on the same page). </P>


I did find this thread interesting in that YA suggeststhatits no one's fault (i.e., basicaly Eli threw the ball where he thought MM would be, but unfortunately MM cut-off the route at the time Eli was throwing it...basically a "**** happens."</P>


Meanwhile,Morehead claims (with what appears to be absolute confidence) it was NOT MM's fault.Seems like an overly confident and unsupported statementconsidering none of us know for sure what play was called; what optionsmight be allowed on that play, if any; what MM was coached todo in such a situation; etc, etc.. At the same time, MS nevers says the converse....i.e., that it wasn't Eli's fault either....so one couldpotentially deduce that MS is implying it was Eli's fault.... </P>


So to clarify the thread, my question is: Morehead, do you think this INT was Eli's fault or does he deserve the same confident absolutionthat you gave to MM? If not, why not?</P>


</P>


We always want to afix blame. **** happens. Bottom line, Eli and Mario are too frequently not on the same page. Eli isn't as tuned in to Mario as much as he was with Smith, and now with Nicks. We all know Mario has taken a long time learning all his play responsibilities, which was why he had so little game time his rookie year. The talent is there, but it seems to be taking longer than usual for him and Eli tohave a feel foreach other.</P>


</P>


Agree with this. </P>

NoHuddle10
11-16-2011, 09:40 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

Why am i not surprised. Btw, you never answered my question. What is so difficult about football to understand?

Yes I did. Go back to thread.


What I said above is the truth and you know it.


There is no way Eli has enough time to say wait, maybe Mario sees the defense, maybe he sees the right side of the field, maybe he wont run his route this time and I should really throw it off to the right?



I mean just think about it. This one really isnt that difficult if you try. NO WAY what Manningham did was the right thing to do. In fact what Mario did on that play was something that gets talented receivers benched and not thrown too anymore.

gumby742
11-16-2011, 09:48 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

Why am i not surprised. Btw, you never answered my question. What is so difficult about football to understand?

Yes I did. Go back to thread.


What I said above is the truth and you know it.


There is no way Eli has enough time to say wait, maybe Mario sees the defense, maybe he sees the right side of the field, maybe he wont run his route this time and I should really throw it off to the right?



I mean just think about it. This one really isnt that difficult if you try. NO WAY what Manningham did was the right thing to do. In fact what Mario did on that play was something that gets talented receivers benched and not thrown too anymore.

NO ONE knows for sure who's fault it is unless you're part of the Giant coaching staff. All we have here are for the most part (not all) people who played rudimentary football playing coach. For the most part, that's what some here are saying. It's not clear who's fault it is. Breaking down plays when you're not "in" is a big grey area.

Yet you come in and assign blame SOLEY on Mario. Big surprise. Just like the tipped INTs last year were SOLEY on the WR. You really can't see how biased you are?

Can't find the thread where you responded to why football is so hard to understand.

burier
11-16-2011, 10:19 AM
<FONT color=#ff0000>Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </FONT>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


You are looney if You think that someone making a diving catch and barely gets his fingers on a ball is gonna catch it. That is a 1/1000 catch.

Why dont you blam Cruz for dropping and easy one that would have blown the game open. Or blame nicks for not catching the one that hit his feat. Or blame. Or just blame nicks for really not showing up on a big game.
Nicks was being doubled the whole game and he did score a big TD so...not really seeing the analogy on that one. As far as the diving catch..Would have been a good catch...not out of this world but very good. If Mario would have timed his layout a little better the ball would have been much more catchable. If Eli put less on it it would have been much more catchable. Either way though...the ball was catchable.



No the one to nicks was catchable, the one to Manningham was overthrown. This is why nicks got to run in his TD and at BEST nicks would have made a diving catch and NOT made it into the end zone.
</P>


Manningham would have made it into the endzone if he laid out for it. He had enough seperation that his momentum would have been more than enough to get there without being downed by the defender.</P>




I am just constantly frustrated by everyone trying to pick apart Mario Manningham. He had a good game. Lets be real. Cruz dropped an easy one, and in the end zone cruz and ballard were in the same part of the field, eli through a pass that got batted down. Those were the plays that probably had the most effect on us loosing the game.
</P>


The pick after the Cruz drop led to 3 points. The pick after the Manningham running the wrong route led to 7 points... I'll let you decide which one had more impact on the final score... But, here's a hint 3<7.</P>


Also, on the final play of the game, Willis damn near form tackled Ballard off the line so he wasn't able to finish he route and clear the area which is what caused the congestion there. It wasn't Ballard nor Cruz's fault (unless you want to say that Ballard should have just fallen down and probably drawn the defensive holding flag instead of trying to fight through it and finish his route). Who knows what that area would have looked like if Ballard was able to release into his route. It's possible that Eli would have had a nice clean window and Smith doesn't bat the ball down. Maybe not. </P>


I'm pretty sure the pick after the Cruz drop resulted in zero points</P>


Actually, yes, you are right. Webster picked off Smith on that drive. My apologies.</P>


So, that strengthens my argument even more. 0<7. That interception had even less impact than if they had scored a FG. </P>

indeed it does strengthen your argument. Which I agree with btw

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 10:26 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 10:31 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


Care to elaborate on your findings?

well first off, there was absolutely no scramble. I think Eli took two steps and let it rip.

Had Mario continued the route, I still think it would of been a pick.

NOW, the possibility of it is that Mario took the route too deep and thats why it seemed like it was a bad ball.

Either way, Eli never saw Mario and attempted to throw it to where he thought Mario would be. Not sure Mario made the right move by breaking the route off, but it was the only way that ball would of been completed. When I originally saw the play I thought Mario was in front of the defenders but he was even with or behind them.

Like I said it was just a broken play, but if your going to put blame on this - the pick was on Eli - imo.

YATittle1962
11-16-2011, 10:45 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 11:07 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli
Care to elaborate on your findings?

well first off, there was absolutely no scramble. I think Eli took two steps and let it rip.

Had Mario continued the route, I still think it would of been a pick.

NOW, the possibility of it is that Mario took the route too deep and thats why it seemed like it was a bad ball.

Either way, Eli never saw Mario and attempted to throw it to where he thought Mario would be. Not sure Mario made the right move by breaking the route off, but it was the only way that ball would of been completed. When I originally saw the play I thought Mario was in front of the defenders but he was even with or behind them.

Like I said it was just a broken play, but if your going to put blame on this - the pick was on Eli - imo.
</P>


Honestly Matt, I'm not in any hurry toput this on anyone. It was just one of those screwy plays. As I said before, Eli probably should have thrown it away. But my angst on this thread is the immediate blaming of the WR and the automatic absolution of Eli that the OP suggests, simply based on a generic comment made by Eli after the game.</P>


But I do appreciate your objectivity on this. I really do. It shows courage to break with your fellow Cultists. Lets hope you aren't forced to drink any Kool Aid. I'd miss you.</P>


But you know how some of these crazies can be.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 11:13 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli
Care to elaborate on your findings?

well first off, there was absolutely no scramble. I think Eli took two steps and let it rip.

Had Mario continued the route, I still think it would of been a pick.

NOW, the possibility of it is that Mario took the route too deep and thats why it seemed like it was a bad ball.

Either way, Eli never saw Mario and attempted to throw it to where he thought Mario would be. Not sure Mario made the right move by breaking the route off, but it was the only way that ball would of been completed. When I originally saw the play I thought Mario was in front of the defenders but he was even with or behind them.

Like I said it was just a broken play, but if your going to put blame on this - the pick was on Eli - imo.
</p>


Honestly Matt, I'm not in any hurry toput this on anyone. It was just one of those screwy plays. As I said before, Eli probably should have thrown it away. But my angst on this thread is the immediate blaming of the WR and the automatic absolution of Eli that the OP suggests, simply based on a generic comment made by Eli after the game.</p>


But I do appreciate your objectivity on this. I really do. It shows courage to break with your fellow Cultists. Lets hope you aren't forced to drink any Kool Aid. I'd miss you.</p>


But you know how some of these crazies can be.</p>

lol first off this was just a debate over a specific play. I maintained the whole time that when I though tit was on Mario, I wasn't killing him for it. I do agree that it was just one of those things (ironic that u admit these type of plays exist ;) ) but the debate was who would you put it on if u had to. I would say it was def on Eli. Not completely because he thought his WR would be there. He didn't read the play or lost the play and just winged it.

But there was absolutely NO scramble on that play at all.

I have admitted I was wrong before - thats why I DVR the games. I like to know what actually happened. I hope i set an example for you.

Roosevelt
11-16-2011, 11:13 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw the coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

Thanks for posting this YA.

This post should be pinned so the chuckleheads can learn a thing or two.

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 11:16 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.

YATittle1962
11-16-2011, 11:19 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw the coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

Thanks for posting this YA.

This post should be pinned so the chuckleheads can learn a thing or two.







I was nervous about posting it because if felt a tiny bit like betrayal of a friend....but I couldnt resist with the heated debate that has been going on here

I hope to get permission from Jerald to post audio just slightly reluctant to ask since I am in no way related to the media and it may seem odd to him

but I plan on asking anyway

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 11:19 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

Great post. It addresses exactly the reason why I get so upset when the Eli-bashers said last year "Eli had a horrible year" without any acknowledgement that the receivers played an equal part in the miscues (and I'm not just talking about deflections and dropped balls). This passing game has the QB and the WRs making reads, and when they read differently, things can go wrong.

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 11:20 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

burier
11-16-2011, 11:21 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


We've lost sight of point here a bit. We can all play expert football analyst and go back and look at the play and guess who's fault it was but to me if Eli more or less says "Mario wasn't where he was supposed to be" I'm not gonna doubt the QB.


Also against the Patriots when Eli threw that pick afte the play he goes up to Mario and says "Hey its ok...its just have to make a decision"

Looking at that play I would definately put that INT on Eli but obviously based on what Eli says to Mario after the play there was more to it than Eli just making a bad throw.

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 11:23 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli
Care to elaborate on your findings?

well first off, there was absolutely no scramble. I think Eli took two steps and let it rip.

Had Mario continued the route, I still think it would of been a pick.

NOW, the possibility of it is that Mario took the route too deep and thats why it seemed like it was a bad ball.

Either way, Eli never saw Mario and attempted to throw it to where he thought Mario would be. Not sure Mario made the right move by breaking the route off, but it was the only way that ball would of been completed. When I originally saw the play I thought Mario was in front of the defenders but he was even with or behind them.

Like I said it was just a broken play, but if your going to put blame on this - the pick was on Eli - imo.
</P>


Honestly Matt, I'm not in any hurry toput this on anyone. It was just one of those screwy plays. As I said before, Eli probably should have thrown it away. But my angst on this thread is the immediate blaming of the WR and the automatic absolution of Eli that the OP suggests, simply based on a generic comment made by Eli after the game.</P>


But I do appreciate your objectivity on this. I really do. It shows courage to break with your fellow Cultists. Lets hope you aren't forced to drink any Kool Aid. I'd miss you.</P>


But you know how some of these crazies can be.</P>




lol first off this was just a debate over a specific play. I maintained the whole time that when I though tit was on Mario, I wasn't killing him for it. I do agree that it was just one of those things (ironic that u admit these type of plays exist ;) ) but the debate was who would you put it on if u had to. I would say it was def on Eli. Not completely because he thought his WR would be there. He didn't read the play or lost the play and just winged it.

But there was absolutely NO scramble on that play at all.

I have admitted I was wrong before - thats why I DVR the games. I like to know what actually happened. I hope i set an example for you.


</P>


I said I was wrong about Shockey. I also admitted that I was wrong about Torrain/Helu. You need to admit you're wrong about the run and shoot since Lomas Brown (who played for years in the run and shoot offense) told me that thereare no remnants of the run and shoot in the Giants offense.</P>


He said that offense was getting QB's killed and has been completely abandoned in the NFL.</P>


If the unlikely event of my being wrong ever happens again, I will admit that too.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 11:23 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it

YATittle1962
11-16-2011, 11:27 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


We've lost sight of point here a bit. We can all play expert football analyst and go back and look at the play and guess who's fault it was but to me if Eli more or less says "Mario wasn't where he was supposed to be" I'm not gonna doubt the QB.


Also against the Patriots when Eli threw that pick afte the play he goes up to Mario and says "Hey its ok...its just have to make a decision"

Looking at that play I would definately put that INT on Eli but obviously based on what Eli says to Mario after the play there was more to it than Eli just making a bad throw.

definitely more to it

and I really cant put it on Eli....just as I cant put it on Mario

it honestly believe....and believe even more having spoken to a coach about it....that it was just one of those things that you really hope to avoid

even though it was not a sight adjustment route......I feel that having so many of those routes in the playbook gives the receivers a different way of thinking that sometimes doesnt work out for the best

at the same time....you want them to be able to improv if a play breaks down....

some are just better than others with it....

hopefully we can stick to the playbook against the Eagles

Roosevelt
11-16-2011, 11:31 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw the coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

Thanks for posting this YA.

This post should be pinned so the chuckleheads can learn a thing or two.







I was nervous about posting it because if felt a tiny bit like betrayal of a friend....but I couldnt resist with the heated debate that has been going on here

I hope to get permission from Jerald to post audio just slightly reluctant to ask since I am in no way related to the media and it may seem odd to him

but I plan on asking anyway


I totally understand. One of the Giants FO personnel lives in my town so I have gotten to know him and we chat every once in a while. I also am very close to the family of an ex-player. So I know exactly how it feels to have information but yet not exactly comfortable releasing it.



I've been reluctant to quote him as well, but when I do speak about somethingthe team, and

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 11:33 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli
Care to elaborate on your findings?

well first off, there was absolutely no scramble. I think Eli took two steps and let it rip.

Had Mario continued the route, I still think it would of been a pick.

NOW, the possibility of it is that Mario took the route too deep and thats why it seemed like it was a bad ball.

Either way, Eli never saw Mario and attempted to throw it to where he thought Mario would be. Not sure Mario made the right move by breaking the route off, but it was the only way that ball would of been completed. When I originally saw the play I thought Mario was in front of the defenders but he was even with or behind them.

Like I said it was just a broken play, but if your going to put blame on this - the pick was on Eli - imo.
</p>


Honestly Matt, I'm not in any hurry toput this on anyone. It was just one of those screwy plays. As I said before, Eli probably should have thrown it away. But my angst on this thread is the immediate blaming of the WR and the automatic absolution of Eli that the OP suggests, simply based on a generic comment made by Eli after the game.</p>


But I do appreciate your objectivity on this. I really do. It shows courage to break with your fellow Cultists. Lets hope you aren't forced to drink any Kool Aid. I'd miss you.</p>


But you know how some of these crazies can be.</p>




lol first off this was just a debate over a specific play. I maintained the whole time that when I though tit was on Mario, I wasn't killing him for it. I do agree that it was just one of those things (ironic that u admit these type of plays exist ;) ) but the debate was who would you put it on if u had to. I would say it was def on Eli. Not completely because he thought his WR would be there. He didn't read the play or lost the play and just winged it.

But there was absolutely NO scramble on that play at all.

I have admitted I was wrong before - thats why I DVR the games. I like to know what actually happened. I hope i set an example for you.


</p>


I said I was wrong about Shockey. I also admitted that I was wrong about Torrain/Helu. You need to admit you're wrong about the run and shoot since Lomas Brown (who played for years in the run and shoot offense) told me that thereare no remnants of the run and shoot in the Giants offense.</p>


He said that offense was getting QB's killed and has been completely abandoned in the NFL.</p>


If the unlikely event of my being wrong ever happens again, I will admit that too.</p>

again your misquoting my arguments. I responded in thee thread

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 11:35 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


We've lost sight of point here a bit. We can all play expert football analyst and go back and look at the play and guess who's fault it was but to me if Eli more or less says "Mario wasn't where he was supposed to be" I'm not gonna doubt the QB.


Also against the Patriots when Eli threw that pick afte the play he goes up to Mario and says "Hey its ok...its just have to make a decision"

Looking at that play I would definately put that INT on Eli but obviously based on what Eli says to Mario after the play there was more to it than Eli just making a bad throw.

definitely more to it

and I really cant put it on Eli....just as I cant put it on Mario

it honestly believe....and believe even more having spoken to a coach about it....that it was just one of those things that you really hope to avoid

even though it was not a sight adjustment route......I feel that having so many of those routes in the playbook gives the receivers a different way of thinking that sometimes doesnt work out for the best

at the same time....you want them to be able to improv if a play breaks down....

some are just better than others with it....

hopefully we can stick to the playbook against the Eagles

the only reason I put it on Eli more is because he obviously never saw Mario and just winged it into the middle of the 4 defenders.

YATittle1962
11-16-2011, 11:38 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


We've lost sight of point here a bit. We can all play expert football analyst and go back and look at the play and guess who's fault it was but to me if Eli more or less says "Mario wasn't where he was supposed to be" I'm not gonna doubt the QB.


Also against the Patriots when Eli threw that pick afte the play he goes up to Mario and says "Hey its ok...its just have to make a decision"

Looking at that play I would definately put that INT on Eli but obviously based on what Eli says to Mario after the play there was more to it than Eli just making a bad throw.

definitely more to it

and I really cant put it on Eli....just as I cant put it on Mario

it honestly believe....and believe even more having spoken to a coach about it....that it was just one of those things that you really hope to avoid

even though it was not a sight adjustment route......I feel that having so many of those routes in the playbook gives the receivers a different way of thinking that sometimes doesnt work out for the best

at the same time....you want them to be able to improv if a play breaks down....

some are just better than others with it....

hopefully we can stick to the playbook against the Eagles

the only reason I put it on Eli more is because he obviously never saw Mario and just winged it into the middle of the 4 defenders.*


one could make the argument that Eli expected Mario to be there......as the coach I spoke to stated.....

but again....one of those plays that you hope to avoid at any cost in the future........ a learning experience if you will

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 11:46 AM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


We've lost sight of point here a bit. We can all play expert football analyst and go back and look at the play and guess who's fault it was but to me if Eli more or less says "Mario wasn't where he was supposed to be" I'm not gonna doubt the QB.


Also against the Patriots when Eli threw that pick afte the play he goes up to Mario and says "Hey its ok...its just have to make a decision"

Looking at that play I would definately put that INT on Eli but obviously based on what Eli says to Mario after the play there was more to it than Eli just making a bad throw.

definitely more to it

and I really cant put it on Eli....just as I cant put it on Mario

it honestly believe....and believe even more having spoken to a coach about it....that it was just one of those things that you really hope to avoid

even though it was not a sight adjustment route......I feel that having so many of those routes in the playbook gives the receivers a different way of thinking that sometimes doesnt work out for the best

at the same time....you want them to be able to improv if a play breaks down....

some are just better than others with it....

hopefully we can stick to the playbook against the Eagles

the only reason I put it on Eli more is because he obviously never saw Mario and just winged it into the middle of the 4 defenders.


one could make the argument that Eli expected Mario to be there......as the coach I spoke to stated.....

but again....one of those plays that you hope to avoid at any cost in the future........ a learning experience if you will

yea i get all of that but I also think had Mario continued the route that he wouldn't of been able to get where the ball was... now maybe thats just the perception because of how Mario broke the route off or maybe he took his route too deep - but either way in the 4th quarter of a come back I'm not liking that ball

GameTime
11-16-2011, 12:00 PM
I was involved in this thread yesterday for a while and I am not surprised to see ti still going on. Like many threads that are started the topic becomes and after thought and what usually occurs is a contest bewteen who knows more about football....more specifically Giants football.</P>


After reading through most of the points made....it isd still no more clear as to who did what and why.</P>


To be honest unless Mario and Eli actually have a press conferense about it no one ever really know....</P>


it is entertaining however.......and actually informative as well....</P>

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 12:07 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday.* I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough.* Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it


I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol!

He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 12:08 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


We've lost sight of point here a bit. We can all play expert football analyst and go back and look at the play and guess who's fault it was but to me if Eli more or less says "Mario wasn't where he was supposed to be" I'm not gonna doubt the QB.


Also against the Patriots when Eli threw that pick afte the play he goes up to Mario and says "Hey its ok...its just have to make a decision"

Looking at that play I would definately put that INT on Eli but obviously based on what Eli says to Mario after the play there was more to it than Eli just making a bad throw.

definitely more to it

and I really cant put it on Eli....just as I cant put it on Mario

it honestly believe....and believe even more having spoken to a coach about it....that it was just one of those things that you really hope to avoid

even though it was not a sight adjustment route......I feel that having so many of those routes in the playbook gives the receivers a different way of thinking that sometimes doesnt work out for the best

at the same time....you want them to be able to improv if a play breaks down....

some are just better than others with it....

hopefully we can stick to the playbook against the Eagles

the only reason I put it on Eli more is because he obviously never saw Mario and just winged it into the middle of the 4 defenders.*


one could make the argument that Eli expected Mario to be there......as the coach I spoke to stated.....

but again....one of those plays that you hope to avoid at any cost in the future........ a learning experience if you will

yea i get all of that but I also think had Mario continued the route that he wouldn't of been able to get where the ball was... now maybe thats just the perception because of how Mario broke the route off or maybe he took his route too deep - but either way in the 4th quarter of a come back I'm not liking that ball
*



Rogers was in man-coverage on Mario...if Rogers was able to get to it, why wouldn't Mario have been able to be there?

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 01:03 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 01:29 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday.* I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough.* Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been?*** Magically somewhere else?</P>

Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 02:16 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>

burier
11-16-2011, 02:24 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday.* I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough.* Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been?*** Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all.* Its guesswork on all our parts at this point.* I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong.* And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>

Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows:

Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover.

Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake.

The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 04:24 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday.* I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough.* Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been?*** Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all.* Its guesswork on all our parts at this point.* I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong.* And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>

Yep, agree that it's all guesswork. The only thing that I am trying to point out is that there wasn't a big congestion of defenders that Eli threw the ball into...and that whatever reason MM decided not to continue the route was, it wasn't because that part of the field was covered. Definitely a guess on my part, and I never said otherwise. But it is different from YA's interpretation that MM "did what he was coached to do" based on "the area being covered by 4 defenders"....

Another interpretation of this (rather than MM thinking Eli was scrambling) is that maybe when MM made his initial cut inside, he thought that Rogers had the inside position and rather than continue the route, he pulled it back outside.

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 04:37 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it


I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol!

He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.

i disagree that he would of been able to make a play on it.

Exactly and Manningham was behind him as he was drifting backwards so there was no way he would of had a clear path to the ball.

I think you need to watch it again and really see where Mario was

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 04:38 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</p>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</p>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</p>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</p>

Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows:

Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover.

Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake.

The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, i think Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened

burier
11-16-2011, 04:42 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, i think Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


</P>


but honestly knowing Eli. If he just chucked the ball wouldn't he have just said he made a bad read or something to that effect?</P>

GameTime
11-16-2011, 04:43 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <FONT color=#000080 size=4>i think</FONT> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</P>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</P>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</P>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 04:48 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</p>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</p>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</p>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</p>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, i think Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</p>


</p>


but honestly knowing Eli. If he just chucked the ball wouldn't he have just said he made a bad read or something to that effect?</p>

I think he just threw it blind.

Whether Mario has the option of breaking off or not on that specific play is something we'll never know.

Either way, I don't think had Mario continued that route that the outcome would of been any different. Thats why I put it on Eli

burier
11-16-2011, 04:51 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <FONT color=#000080 size=4>i think</FONT> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</P>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</P>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</P>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</P>


</P>


</P>


See that's the thing...why all the confusion. Eli held at the pressed was asked about the play and his reponse to me translates to "Mario was supposed to run an incut/sqaure in and he didn't so the ball went to the wrong team" Its very clear to me.</P>


Now if we're going to argue weather Eli's assesment of the play is accurate that would be a whole other subject.</P>


This thread has gotten very large because some people want to act like Eli didn't say what he said and two some people have brought in other viewpoints to add to the mix which I think is cool but...I'm a little baffled at the confusion here.</P>


</P>


How does Eli saying something prompt one to go review the tape?</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 04:52 PM
i think that it is possible that Eli threw that ball so blind, that he missed the read that Manningham saw

so at the time he answered this question he didn't seem to know what to make of it

Which honestly, is disturbing in its own right. Why aren't our QB and WR talking after an interception about what just happened?

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 04:54 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</p>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</p>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</p>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</p>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <font color="#000080" size="4">i think</font> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</p>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</p>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</p>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</p>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</p>


</p>


</p>


See that's the thing...why all the confusion. Eli held at the pressed was asked about the play and his reponse to me translates to "Mario was supposed to run an incut/sqaure in and he didn't so the ball went to the wrong team" Its very clear to me.</p>


Now if we're going to argue weather Eli's assesment of the play is accurate that would be a whole other subject.</p>


This thread has gotten very large because some people want to act like Eli didn't say what he said and two some people have brought in other viewpoints to add to the mix which I think is cool but...I'm a little baffled at the confusion here.</p>


</p>


How does Eli saying something prompt one to go review the tape?</p>

well actually, Eli's assessment of the play would be COMPLETELY ON the subject. It seems that like I said Eli wasn't keying on Manninghams route and threw it blind. So obviously if he missed the read, he didn't know what happened. Maybe he didn't see it from that angle, but after watching it a couple of times last night its hard to debate that Manningham made the wrong route

Only way Mario was wrong is if he has to run that route no matter what and thats something we'll never know.

burier
11-16-2011, 04:55 PM
i think that it is possible that Eli threw that ball so blind, that he missed the read that Manningham saw

so at the time he answered this question he didn't seem to know what to make of it

Which honestly, is disturbing in its own right. Why aren't our QB and WR talking after an interception about what just happened?
</P>


</P>


This we can definately agree on because however you look at it its clear they did not dialogue after the play which makes no sense.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 04:59 PM
i think that it is possible that Eli threw that ball so blind, that he missed the read that Manningham saw

so at the time he answered this question he didn't seem to know what to make of it

Which honestly, is disturbing in its own right. Why aren't our QB and WR talking after an interception about what just happened?
</p>


</p>


This we can definately agree on because however you look at it its clear they did not dialogue after the play which makes no sense.</p>

like this happened at like 13:30 in the 4th qtr.... we were down and just threw a pick and Eli doesn't go ask him?

Not getting that at all.

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 04:59 PM
well actually i guess KC did score on the very next play

i guess they really didn't have time to discuss it then it became old news and u don't want to harp on it

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 05:08 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario.* Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday.* I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough.* Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it


I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol!

He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.

i disagree that he would of been able to make a play on it.

Exactly and Manningham was behind him as he was drifting backwards so there was no way he would of had a clear path to the ball.

I think you need to watch it again and really see where Mario was


When I look at that replay, the first thing I think is "If Steve Smith, circa 2009, runs that route, Rogers gets totally twisted around and Smith beats him on the in-cut." Maybe MM didn't run the route as hard as Smith did, but I still feel like MM would have been able to get position on the throw...

Wes
11-16-2011, 05:12 PM
Mario has speed and makes an occasional play but they need to get him gone hes not a smart WR, hes been in the league long enough...he keeps making the same mistakes over n over n over

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 05:13 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line.




Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here.



YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage.



NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way?




Be real guys.

you obviously dont understand how this offense works

not any fault of yours

its a very complex one

with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read.........

you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well

I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say...

"...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......"

that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up.........

so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so

I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend

I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.


I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it


I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol!

He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.

i disagree that he would of been able to make a play on it.

Exactly and Manningham was behind him as he was drifting backwards so there was no way he would of had a clear path to the ball.

I think you need to watch it again and really see where Mario was


When I look at that replay, the first thing I think is "If Steve Smith, circa 2009, runs that route, Rogers gets totally twisted around and Smith beats him on the in-cut." Maybe MM didn't run the route as hard as Smith did, but I still feel like MM would have been able to get position on the throw...

well if we disagree on that then theres no way we're going to agree on anything else about the play

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 05:18 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <FONT color=#000080 size=4>i think</FONT> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</P>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</P>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</P>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</P>


</P>


</P>


See that's the thing...why all the confusion. Eli held at the pressed was asked about the play and his reponse to me translates to "Mario was supposed to run an incut/sqaure in and he didn't so the ball went to the wrong team" Its very clear to me.</P>


Now if we're going to argue weather Eli's assesment of the play is accurate that would be a whole other subject.</P>


This thread has gotten very large because some people want to act like Eli didn't say what he said and two some people have brought in other viewpoints to add to the mix which I think is cool but...I'm a little baffled at the confusion here.</P>


</P>


How does Eli saying something prompt one to go review the tape?</P>


</P>


We all have many different opinions about what happened and what should have happened. BUT I go back to your original post, Eli most certainly did NOT clear anything up at all. </P>


So your conclusion, as stated in your original postwas incorrect.</P>


</P>

poppa smurph
11-16-2011, 05:21 PM
Jeez... 14 pages?? Really?</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>I thought Eli cleaned this thing up.</FONT></P>

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 05:31 PM
Jeez... 14 pages?? Really?</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>I thought Eli cleaned this thing up.</FONT></P>


</P>


Its a masked Cultist vs. the World debate. Don't kid yourself.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 05:34 PM
Mario has speed and makes an occasional play but they need to get him gone hes not a smart WR, hes been in the league long enough...he keeps making the same mistakes over n over n over

what mistakes are u referring to?

And I think hes gone anyway, hes going to get a deal that the giants won't be able to afford

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 05:34 PM
Jeez... 14 pages?? Really?</p>


<font color="#ff0000">I thought Eli cleaned this thing up.</font></p>


</p>


Its a masked Cultist vs. the World debate. Don't kid yourself.</p>

i know, but the question is when will you stop with your agenda and join the rest of the world pappy?

poppa smurph
11-16-2011, 05:36 PM
Jeez... 14 pages?? Really?</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>I thought Eli cleaned this thing up.</FONT></P>


</P>


Its a masked Cultist vs. the World debate. Don't kid yourself.</P>Lol, I didn't have the stomach to go through 14 pages( kudo's to some of you who did ) ... what's the score?

GameTime
11-16-2011, 05:36 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <FONT color=#000080 size=4>i think</FONT> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</P>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</P>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</P>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</P>


</P>


</P>


See that's the thing...why all the confusion. Eli held at the pressed was asked about the play and his reponse to me translates to "Mario was supposed to run an incut/sqaure in and he didn't so the ball went to the wrong team"<FONT color=#0000ff size=4> Its very clear to me</FONT>.</P>


Now if we're going to argue weather Eli's assesment of the play is accurate that would be a whole other subject.</P>


This thread has gotten very large because some people want to act like Eli didn't say what he said and two some people have brought in other viewpoints to add to the mix which I think is cool but...I'm a little baffled at the confusion here.</P>


</P>


How does Eli saying something prompt one to go review the tape?</P>




well actually, Eli's assessment of the play would be COMPLETELY ON the subject. It seems that like I said Eli wasn't keying on Manninghams route and threw it blind. So obviously if he missed the read, he didn't know what happened. Maybe he didn't see it from that angle, but after watching it a couple of times last night its hard to debate that Manningham made the wrong route

Only way Mario was wrong is if he has to run that route no matter what and thats <FONT color=#000080 size=4>something we'll never know.
</FONT></P>


thats exactly my point anf why the title of the thread should have been somehting different..</P>


Like maybe..."Eli clears up the Mario INT or at least why I think it happened".....</P>


its not so baffleing Burrier....you made a decision on what happened based on what Eli said and what unfolded in the play. Eli didnt come out and say unequivically.. 'Mario messed up and there is no way he should have kept to the in route no matter what he saw. Thats not the way the play is designed and it was all his fault.' Of course I am overstating but it is not 100% clear to why the picked happened. Maybe to you but that doesnt it mean its correct.</P>

burier
11-16-2011, 05:36 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <FONT color=#000080 size=4>i think</FONT> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</P>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</P>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</P>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</P>


</P>


</P>


See that's the thing...why all the confusion. Eli held at the pressed was asked about the play and his reponse to me translates to "Mario was supposed to run an incut/sqaure in and he didn't so the ball went to the wrong team" Its very clear to me.</P>


Now if we're going to argue weather Eli's assesment of the play is accurate that would be a whole other subject.</P>


This thread has gotten very large because some people want to act like Eli didn't say what he said and two some people have brought in other viewpoints to add to the mix which I think is cool but...I'm a little baffled at the confusion here.</P>


</P>


How does Eli saying something prompt one to go review the tape?</P>


</P>


We all have many different opinions about what happened and what should have happened. BUT I go back to your original post, Eli most certainly did NOT clear anything up at all. </P>


So your conclusion, as stated in your original postwas incorrect.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


Agreed. I should have reworded that title to be more accurate"Eli clears up the Mario INTfor people who can read"</P>

GameTime
11-16-2011, 05:38 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <FONT color=#000080 size=4>i think</FONT> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</P>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</P>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</P>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</P>


</P>


</P>


See that's the thing...why all the confusion. Eli held at the pressed was asked about the play and his reponse to me translates to "Mario was supposed to run an incut/sqaure in and he didn't so the ball went to the wrong team" Its very clear to me.</P>


Now if we're going to argue weather Eli's assesment of the play is accurate that would be a whole other subject.</P>


This thread has gotten very large because some people want to act like Eli didn't say what he said and two some people have brought in other viewpoints to add to the mix which I think is cool but...I'm a little baffled at the confusion here.</P>


</P>


How does Eli saying something prompt one to go review the tape?</P>


</P>


We all have many different opinions about what happened and what should have happened. BUT I go back to your original post, Eli most certainly did NOT clear anything up at all. </P>


So your conclusion, as stated in your original postwas incorrect.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


Agreed. I should have reworded that title to be more accurate"Eli clears up the Mario INTfor people who can read"</P>


</P>


or maybe this..."Eli clears nothing up butthis is what I think happened so it must be true......"</P>


[:P]</P>

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 05:41 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <FONT color=#000080 size=4>i think</FONT> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</P>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</P>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</P>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</P>


</P>


</P>


See that's the thing...why all the confusion. Eli held at the pressed was asked about the play and his reponse to me translates to "Mario was supposed to run an incut/sqaure in and he didn't so the ball went to the wrong team" Its very clear to me.</P>


Now if we're going to argue weather Eli's assesment of the play is accurate that would be a whole other subject.</P>


This thread has gotten very large because some people want to act like Eli didn't say what he said and two some people have brought in other viewpoints to add to the mix which I think is cool but...I'm a little baffled at the confusion here.</P>


</P>


How does Eli saying something prompt one to go review the tape?</P>


</P>


We all have many different opinions about what happened and what should have happened. BUT I go back to your original post, Eli most certainly did NOT clear anything up at all. </P>


So your conclusion, as stated in your original postwas incorrect.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


Agreed. I should have reworded that title to be more accurate"Eli clears up the Mario INTfor people who can read"</P>


</P>


So a coach,days after the gameis to be disregarded but your "interpretation" of Eli, without seeing film, and making a very non specific comment, is Gospel.</P>


But of course...YOU can read.</P>


</P>

ShakeNBake
11-16-2011, 05:43 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes




Take notes on how you flip flop? I thought it was MM's fault? Now its Eli's? You're on point Matt, nice work. You're about as consistent as John Kerry and Mitt Romney.

burier
11-16-2011, 05:48 PM
This play was Marios fault. Bottom line. Eli has about 2-5 seconds to make a throw with usually 3 or more options. He reads coverage. He knows where his receivers are supposed to be. The good qbs make throws based on mostly trust and timing. In this particular play, Eli didnt have much time. He knew the defense and knew Mario would slip underneath and make one of those diving/sliding catches we have seen so often since Eli has been here. YA you act like Eli was supposed to somehow read Marios mind and know he was going to break it off. Its plays like this that are keeping Ochocinco from producing in NE. Eli needs to trust his receivers will be where they are supposed to be. He then makes decisions based on the coverage. NTM Eli has a lot of other things he is still responsible for during the play. line calls. avoiding the free blitzer in this case, breaking down the defense and deciding where to go with the ball. There is no way what Mario did was correct. Eli was supposed to know Mario was going to decide to stop and do some dance turn around move the other way? Be real guys. you obviously dont understand how this offense works not any fault of yours its a very complex one with that Im not saying that this was a adjustment and read......... you said it yourself ...the QB reads coverages.....guess what....so do receivers.....and Mario thought he saw something that he assumed Eli would as well I spoke to a friend who is part of the coaching staff early this morning and what he stated was.....and I quote him when I say... "...who knows what would have happened if Mario continued his route but you cant fault him for assuming Eli saw a coverage he saw. Sometimes these guys need to be in each others heads and even though we expect them to be 100% on the same page they are human .....Eli expected him to be there but bottom line they saw different things and we cant do anything about it now . none of us hold that play against Mario because in a slightly different situation that can be a huge play now ......" that is a direct quote ....and if I was sure I wouldnt get in trouble for posting unauthorized audio I recorded on my phone of a coach speaking I would put it up......... so out of respect for a good friend I will wait to get his permission before I do so I went way out of my way and did things I would never normally do to squeeze this info out of a friend I hope this sheds a tiny bit of light on how the staff sees this very situation

personally i'd put it on Eli...

even if Mario continued the route I can't see him making the catch and I just don't think Eli ever saw Mario. Granted its a good thing that Eli has the confidence that he thinks the WRs are going to be where they should be.
I think if MM continues the route, it's either a completion or an incompletion...but certainly not an INT...

i rewatched the play like 10 times yesterday. I say no shot in hell

HE was way too far right and wasn't infront of the defenders enough. Where the ball was placed, it would of been nearly impossible to get a hand on it
I watched it 12 times...you should watch 2 more...lol! He would have been exactly where Rogers caught the ball...the LB in front of him was just drifting backwards from being down in the box and wasn't watching MM's route, and the safeties were far over the top. You could argue that if MM stayed on the route that one of the safeties might have come down a little closer, but no way he would have come down far enough to be in front of MM for the throw.</P>


And where would Rodgers have been? Magically somewhere else?</P>


Rogers would have been covering Manningham, but I believe that Manningham would have either won that 1-on-1 or at least been able to kept Rogers from intercepting. In either case, it wasn't something where the safeties or the LB would have been in position to make an INT.</P>


Well no one knows that at all. Its guesswork on all our parts at this point. I think its clear though that YA's post proves the OP wrong. And ultimately, thats the debate.</P>


Ohh you mean YA's post where apparently someone on the coaching staff chose not to throw either Eli or Mario under the bus for that play? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that information is a nice bit to add to the discussion but really doesn't address the OP's orginal point which is as follows: Based on what Eli said post game Mario Manningham was not where he was supposed to be on the play in question resulting in a turnover. Eli might come out tomorrow and say he looked at the film and it was his mistake ect. but based on what he has actually said an inference can be made that Eli believes Manningham made a mistake. The thread has gotten quite long and the orginal issue has been lost.

honestly, <FONT color=#000080 size=4>i think</FONT> Eli threw it blind thats why he has no idea what happened
</P>


so going back to the OPs orig intent of the thread to "clear" things up...</P>


you think...he thinks...I think...I guess...well maybe....could be...IDK...what he might have see.....what he may have seen.....</P>


after al lthese pages of speculation nothing is clear and it wont be until Eli and Mario have a presser to clear it up. Which of course wont happen...</P>


have to retitle the thread....WTF do you think happened on the Eli to Mario pass....[;)]</P>


</P>


</P>


See that's the thing...why all the confusion. Eli held at the pressed was asked about the play and his reponse to me translates to "Mario was supposed to run an incut/sqaure in and he didn't so the ball went to the wrong team" Its very clear to me.</P>


Now if we're going to argue weather Eli's assesment of the play is accurate that would be a whole other subject.</P>


This thread has gotten very large because some people want to act like Eli didn't say what he said and two some people have brought in other viewpoints to add to the mix which I think is cool but...I'm a little baffled at the confusion here.</P>


</P>


How does Eli saying something prompt one to go review the tape?</P>


</P>


We all have many different opinions about what happened and what should have happened. BUT I go back to your original post, Eli most certainly did NOT clear anything up at all. </P>


So your conclusion, as stated in your original postwas incorrect.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


Agreed. I should have reworded that title to be more accurate"Eli clears up the Mario INTfor people who can read"</P>


</P>


So a coach,days after the gameis to be disregarded but your "interpretation" of Eli, without seeing film, and making a very non specific comment, is Gospel.</P>


But of course...YOU can read.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


But that's the point. I don't need to see film understand what a player says in a presser.</P>


</P>


The day before I started this thread the interpretations about what happened on the play had been voiced...what I added was the QB's perspective which has been ignored or twisted throughout this thread.</P>


If I hadn't seen the play but heard Eli I would have drawn a logical conclusion.</P>

poppa smurph
11-16-2011, 05:51 PM
Jeez... 14 pages?? Really?</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>I thought Eli cleaned this thing up.</FONT></P>


</P>


Its a masked Cultist vs. the World debate. Don't kid yourself.</P>




i know, but the question is when will you stop with your agenda and join the rest of the world pappy?
Lol, is Rosie with the rest of the world?- 'cause I stopped reading after his post on the first page.</P>


Summed it up pretty good I thought he did.</P>

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 05:58 PM
Eli didn't say anything difinitive. He said something about MM thinking he was scrambling. As if that really means anything. MM changed direction for a reason. He didn't just do it because he felt like it.</P>


If Eli had a split second more to see it, it might have been a huge play to the outside. Not Eli's fault. The timing on that was just unfortunate. Eli reacted to MM's fake inside just as the defender did.</P>


I'm looking for the statement Eli made that you claim he did. That Mario was supposed to be there and wasn't. He didn't say that of course.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 05:59 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes




Take notes on how you flip flop? I thought it was MM's fault? Now its Eli's? You're on point Matt, nice work. You're about as consistent as John Kerry and Mitt Romney.


<span class="st"><span class="f"> </span>“Don't ever be afraid to admit you were wrong. It's like saying you're wiser today than you were yesterday.”


Theres a difference between flip flopping and having the opportunity to learn more something or see it more in depth and making an educated change to your stance. The ignorance would be to fight your position no matter what til the end.

The thing they should learn is to admit they are wrong. I have officially crossed Moorehead off the list, Rooni is still on it. Apparently you should be added as well
</span>

GameTime
11-16-2011, 06:02 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes




Take notes on how you flip flop? I thought it was MM's fault? Now its Eli's? You're on point Matt, nice work. You're about as consistent as John Kerry and Mitt Romney.


<SPAN class=st><SPAN class=f></SPAN>“Don't ever be afraid to admit you were wrong. It's like saying you're wiser today than you were yesterday.”


Theres a difference between flip flopping and having the opportunity to learn more something or see it more in depth and making an educated change to your stance. The ignorance would be to fight your position no matter what til the end.

The thing they should learn is to admit they are wrong. I have officially crossed Moorehead off the list, Rooni is still on it. Apparently you should be added as well
</SPAN></P>


so if you did actually "flip flop" then it reinforces what I ahve been saying all along...</P>


nothing is cleared up with this thread from the begining....</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2011, 06:22 PM
Jeez... 14 pages?? Really?</p>


<font color="#ff0000">I thought Eli cleaned this thing up.</font></p>


</p>


Its a masked Cultist vs. the World debate. Don't kid yourself.</p>




i know, but the question is when will you stop with your agenda and join the rest of the world pappy?
Lol, is Rosie with the rest of the world?- 'cause I stopped reading after his post on the first page.</p>


Summed it up pretty good I thought he did.</p>

when it comes to moorehead everybody else is the rest of the world

ShakeNBake
11-16-2011, 06:43 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes




Take notes on how you flip flop? I thought it was MM's fault? Now its Eli's? You're on point Matt, nice work. You're about as consistent as John Kerry and Mitt Romney.


<span class="st"><span class="f"></span>“Don't ever be afraid to admit you were wrong. It's like saying you're wiser today than you were yesterday.”


Theres a difference between flip flopping and having the opportunity to learn more something or see it more in depth and making an educated change to your stance. The ignorance would be to fight your position no matter what til the end.

The thing they should learn is to admit they are wrong. I have officially crossed Moorehead off the list, Rooni is still on it. Apparently you should be added as well
</span></p>


so if you did actually "flip flop" then it reinforces what I ahve been saying all along...</p>


nothing is cleared up with this thread from the begining....</p>

Bingo. Also Matt theres a difference between admitting your wrong when you formulate an educated opinion( in this case knowing what the play call was, which we don't) and making baseless assumptions. Admitting that you formulate your opinions without finding the facts first doesn't make you seem wiser, it just continues to diminish the value of your posts.

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 07:38 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes




Take notes on how you flip flop? I thought it was MM's fault? Now its Eli's? You're on point Matt, nice work. You're about as consistent as John Kerry and Mitt Romney.


<SPAN class=st><SPAN class=f></SPAN>“Don't ever be afraid to admit you were wrong. It's like saying you're wiser today than you were yesterday.”


Theres a difference between flip flopping and having the opportunity to learn more something or see it more in depth and making an educated change to your stance. The ignorance would be to fight your position no matter what til the end.

The thing they should learn is to admit they are wrong. I have officially crossed Moorehead off the list, Rooni is still on it. Apparently you should be added as well
</SPAN></P>


so if you did actually "flip flop" then it reinforces what I ahve been saying all along...</P>


nothing is cleared up with this thread from the begining....</P>




Bingo. Also Matt theres a difference between admitting your wrong when you formulate an educated opinion( in this case knowing what the play call was, which we don't) and making baseless assumptions. Admitting that you formulate your opinions without finding the facts first doesn't make you seem wiser, it just continues to diminish the value of your posts.
</P>


How stupid are you? Matt looked at the film and saw something he didn't before. Are you three for God's sake?</P>


Unfortunatly, Matt is getting a small taste of what I have to deal with all the time here. When you dare to suggest the Eli is to blame for anything, they come out of the woodwork and call you every name in the book. John Kerry?....Thats low man.</P>

yoeddy
11-16-2011, 07:56 PM
Eli cleared it up. He said he read it one way, Mario read it a different way. The ball was intercepted because of the different reads. Not sure how much clearer it can get.

Drez
11-16-2011, 07:58 PM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes




Take notes on how you flip flop? I thought it was MM's fault? Now its Eli's? You're on point Matt, nice work. You're about as consistent as John Kerry and Mitt Romney.
</P>


So admiting you're wrong/changing your view point based on new information (or reassessing prior information) is considered flip flopping?</P>


Wow. Just wow.</P>

GameTime
11-16-2011, 08:41 PM
Eli cleared it up. He said he read it one way, Mario read it a different way. The ball was intercepted because of the different reads. Not sure how much clearer it can get.</P>


thank you....</P>


I agree....no fault. No fault was ever given by Eli or Mario.....and that is the only clear part of what was originally posted....</P>


</P>


</P>

jax5338
11-16-2011, 10:31 PM
Eli cleared it up. He said he read it one way, Mario read it a different way. The ball was intercepted because of the different reads. Not sure how much clearer it can get.</p>


thank you....</p>


I agree....no fault. No fault was ever given by Eli or Mario.....and that is the only clear part of what was originally posted....</p>


</p>


</p>

a 16 page pissing contest

Morehead State
11-16-2011, 11:39 PM
Eli cleared it up. He said he read it one way, Mario read it a different way. The ball was intercepted because of the different reads. Not sure how much clearer it can get.</P>


thank you....</P>


I agree....no fault. No fault was ever given by Eli or Mario.....and that is the only clear part of what was originally posted....</P>


</P>


</P>




a 16 page pissing contest
</P>


I know.........How awesome is that?</P>

GameTime
11-16-2011, 11:48 PM
Eli cleared it up. He said he read it one way, Mario read it a different way. The ball was intercepted because of the different reads. Not sure how much clearer it can get.</P>


thank you....</P>


I agree....no fault. No fault was ever given by Eli or Mario.....and that is the only clear part of what was originally posted....</P>


*</P>


*</P>




a 16 page pissing contest
</P>


I know.........How awesome is that?</P>
yeah.....many posts turn out like that. ......it can be fun....

Roosevelt
11-17-2011, 12:40 AM
Jeez... 14 pages?? Really?</p>


<font color="#ff0000">I thought Eli cleaned this thing up.</font></p>


</p>


Its a masked Cultist vs. the World debate. Don't kid yourself.</p>




i know, but the question is when will you stop with your agenda and join the rest of the world pappy?
Lol, is Rosie with the rest of the world?- 'cause I stopped reading after his post on the first page.</p>


Summed it up pretty good I thought he did.</p>

Thank you. I got a whole lotta love for many guys in this thread but I truly can't get into this one. Not when both players are playing so well. I didn't find fault with either guy on that one.

MattMeyerBud
11-17-2011, 10:34 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes




Take notes on how you flip flop? I thought it was MM's fault? Now its Eli's? You're on point Matt, nice work. You're about as consistent as John Kerry and Mitt Romney.


<span class="st"><span class="f"></span>“Don't ever be afraid to admit you were wrong. It's like saying you're wiser today than you were yesterday.”


Theres a difference between flip flopping and having the opportunity to learn more something or see it more in depth and making an educated change to your stance. The ignorance would be to fight your position no matter what til the end.

The thing they should learn is to admit they are wrong. I have officially crossed Moorehead off the list, Rooni is still on it. Apparently you should be added as well
</span></p>


so if you did actually <font size="6">"flip flop"</font> then it reinforces what I ahve been saying all along...</p>


nothing is cleared up with this thread from the begining....</p>

Bingo. Also Matt theres a difference between admitting your wrong when you formulate an educated opinion( in this case knowing what the play call was, which we don't) and making baseless assumptions. Admitting that you formulate your opinions without finding the facts first doesn't make you seem wiser, it just continues to diminish the value of your posts.


in case u missed the big font - pretty sure that was mocking your comment about me flip flopping

lol well if the QB says he should be going on a cross route, thats what he was suppose to do.

Good to know that basically once u say something u'll always feel the same way. That basically says to me that NOTHING you say will ever have any validity to it because who knows what your agendas are.

MattMeyerBud
11-17-2011, 10:35 AM
serve me crow

Im puttin this pick on eli


I think this thread should be pinned [;)]


[Y]






lol you and moorehead should take notes




Take notes on how you flip flop? I thought it was MM's fault? Now its Eli's? You're on point Matt, nice work. You're about as consistent as John Kerry and Mitt Romney.


<span class="st"><span class="f"></span>“Don't ever be afraid to admit you were wrong. It's like saying you're wiser today than you were yesterday.”


Theres a difference between flip flopping and having the opportunity to learn more something or see it more in depth and making an educated change to your stance. The ignorance would be to fight your position no matter what til the end.

The thing they should learn is to admit they are wrong. I have officially crossed Moorehead off the list, Rooni is still on it. Apparently you should be added as well
</span></p>


so if you did actually "flip flop" then it reinforces what I ahve been saying all along...</p>


nothing is cleared up with this thread from the begining....</p>




Bingo. Also Matt theres a difference between admitting your wrong when you formulate an educated opinion( in this case knowing what the play call was, which we don't) and making baseless assumptions. Admitting that you formulate your opinions without finding the facts first doesn't make you seem wiser, it just continues to diminish the value of your posts.
</p>


How stupid are you? Matt looked at the film and saw something he didn't before. Are you three for God's sake?</p>


Unfortunatly, Matt is getting a small taste of what I have to deal with all the time here. When you dare to suggest the Eli is to blame for anything, they come out of the woodwork and call you every name in the book. John Kerry?....Thats low man.</p>

lol no its not. My general views of whats right and wrong still remains unchanged. We're talking on a specific play. Everybody is saying it was bad timing - but it wasn't anything to do with timing - it had to do with Eli not locating the WR

MattMeyerBud
11-17-2011, 10:36 AM
Eli cleared it up. He said he read it one way, Mario read it a different way. The ball was intercepted because of the different reads. Not sure how much clearer it can get.</p>


thank you....</p>


I agree....no fault. No fault was ever given by Eli or Mario.....and that is the only clear part of what was originally posted....</p>


</p>


</p>




a 16 page pissing contest
</p>


I know.........How awesome is that?</p>

it'll be 20 if i have anything to say about it

have to be honest, this really wasn't a bad dissing thread at all... i've def been in worse GMB battles lol

lnp12
11-17-2011, 11:15 AM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


Yeah man, it hit him in a bad spot...the hands
Lord aren't those hard balls to catch...

MattMeyerBud
11-17-2011, 11:18 AM
<font color="#ff0000">Can we blame the first pick on Mario too? </font>

No that one was all Eli, so he at least made 1 and 1/2 mistakes today. Get over this blame mario fest, if eli also had not OVERTHROWN him we could have tied the game too.

Was that mario's fault too? not running fast enough to catch up to eli's overthrown passes?




lol i dunno i guess im a crazy person... when balls hit WRs in their hands they are suppose to catch it....

im one of those looney ones i guess.

The WRs making a premature decision isn't his fault on breaking a route off either i guess


Yeah man, it hit him in a bad spot...the hands
Lord aren't those hard balls to catch...


haha well it definitly wasn't an "easy" catch - but it was a play that should of been made. If they could only catch the easy ones then they wouldn't be in the NFL

burier
11-17-2011, 11:24 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you.

You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.

MattMeyerBud
11-17-2011, 11:25 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you.

You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.

you could also take from eli's comments that he had no idea what happened and he was expecting Mario to be there. Isn't it possible that he could of missed a read as well?

YATittle1962
11-17-2011, 11:29 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you.

You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.

yr clearly mis reading / hearing his quote

Morehead State
11-17-2011, 11:31 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you. You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.</P>


You are dismissing the possibility that Eli didn't see what MM did. You are dismissing the possibility that Eli was wrong. You are ignoring the fact that he said he had to look at the tape. You are ignoring the fact that Eli was talking only minutes after the game was over.</P>

burier
11-17-2011, 11:31 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you.

You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.

you could also take from eli's comments that he had no idea what happened and he was expecting Mario to be there. Isn't it possible that he could of missed a read as well?


Absoultely! By no means would I ever suggest that Eli is above a mistake.

(personally if Mario and Eli both came up to me and blamed eachother for the INT I'd tend to go wtih Eli's word based on Eli's track record Vs Mario's)

But that's not the point. Like you said you went back and looked at the play again and you feel like Eli was at fault. That's all fine and good but it doesn't change what Eli SAID...To argue weather Eli's account of the play is accurate or not is a separate issue. It may have a place in this thread but no matter how many angles you see the play from or who else offers perspective on the play....it doesn't change what came out of Eli's mouth wich is what I was bringing to the discussion orginally.

yoeddy
11-17-2011, 11:34 AM
lol no its not. My general views of whats right and wrong still remains unchanged.* We're talking on a specific play.* Everybody is saying it was bad timing - but it wasn't anything to do with timing - it had to do with Eli not locating the WR


I disagree. Imho, Eli located the WR and assumed MM would finish the in-cut. MM saw something that led him to believe he should not finish the in-cut.

If you want to discuss why each player made their respective reads/decisions, here's what I think:

- Eli expected to see MM make the in-cut. He saw an open hole in the zone and thought that MM would be in single-coverage at that spot and that he felt MM would be able to beat Rogers 1-on-1.

- MM made his decision based on one of two things. Either (1) he saw Eli drifting/scrambling left and figured that the ball was going to either Jacobs or Nicks on that side, or (2) when he made the initial in-cut, he felt that Rogers had the inside position and thought that taking it back out would be a better option.

In either case, I don't believe that MM made his decision because of "triple coverage" or the zone being crowded. Just my opinions...

YATittle1962
11-17-2011, 11:35 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you.

You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.

you could also take from eli's comments that he had no idea what happened and he was expecting Mario to be there. Isn't it possible that he could of missed a read as well?


Absoultely! By no means would I ever suggest that Eli is above a mistake.

(personally if Mario and Eli both came up to me and blamed eachother for the INT I'd tend to go wtih Eli's word based on Eli's track record Vs Mario's)

But that's not the point. Like you said you went back and looked at the play again and you feel like Eli was at fault. That's all fine and good but it doesn't change what Eli SAID...To argue weather Eli's account of the play is accurate or not is a separate issue. It may have a place in this thread but no matter how many angles you see the play from or who else offers perspective on the play....it doesn't change what came out of Eli's mouth wich is what I was bringing to the discussion orginally.

what yr missing is that absolutely nowhere in Elis post game presser did he say anything about where Mario was "supposed" to be

he crystal clearly stated .... in not so many words....that they read the play differently and that he would have to look at the tape to see what actually happened

so yr argument is a bucket with 15 holes and holding very very little water

Morehead State
11-17-2011, 11:38 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you. You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.

you could also take from eli's comments that he had no idea what happened and he was expecting Mario to be there. Isn't it possible that he could of missed a read as well?
Absoultely! By no means would I ever suggest that Eli is above a mistake. (personally if Mario and Eli both came up to me and blamed eachother for the INT I'd tend to go wtih Eli's word based on Eli's track record Vs Mario's) But that's not the point. Like you said you went back and looked at the play again and you feel like Eli was at fault. That's all fine and good but it doesn't change what Eli SAID...To argue weather Eli's account of the play is accurate or not is a separate issue. It may have a place in this thread but no matter how many angles you see the play from or who else offers perspective on the play....it doesn't change what came out of Eli's mouth wich is what I was bringing to the discussion orginally.</P>


If you admit that Eli could have made a mistake, how is it you claim that he "cleared it up"?</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-17-2011, 11:42 AM
lol no its not. My general views of whats right and wrong still remains unchanged. We're talking on a specific play. Everybody is saying it was bad timing - but it wasn't anything to do with timing - it had to do with Eli not locating the WR


I disagree. Imho, Eli located the WR and assumed MM would finish the in-cut. MM saw something that led him to believe he should not finish the in-cut.

If you want to discuss why each player made their respective reads/decisions, here's what I think:

- Eli expected to see MM make the in-cut. He saw an open hole in the zone and thought that MM would be in single-coverage at that spot and that he felt MM would be able to beat Rogers 1-on-1.

- MM made his decision based on one of two things. Either (1) he saw Eli drifting/scrambling left and figured that the ball was going to either Jacobs or Nicks on that side, or (2) when he made the initial in-cut, he felt that Rogers had the inside position and thought that taking it back out would be a better option.

In either case, I don't believe that MM made his decision because of "triple coverage" or the zone being crowded. Just my opinions...

lol as we came to the conclusion yesterday - i don't think had Mario continued that route that he would of been able to get to that ball anyway so I don't think Eli located him at all and he just threw it to where he thought he would be.

That whole Eli scrambling thing is nonsense too. Eli did his drop took one step to the left and one step up and threw the ball. I think if Eli actually saw the play, the wr, the coverage that there was no way he throws that ball where he did

yoeddy
11-17-2011, 11:43 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you. You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.

you could also take from eli's comments that he had no idea what happened and he was expecting Mario to be there. Isn't it possible that he could of missed a read as well?
Absoultely! By no means would I ever suggest that Eli is above a mistake. (personally if Mario and Eli both came up to me and blamed eachother for the INT I'd tend to go wtih Eli's word based on Eli's track record Vs Mario's) But that's not the point. Like you said you went back and looked at the play again and you feel like Eli was at fault. That's all fine and good but it doesn't change what Eli SAID...To argue weather Eli's account of the play is accurate or not is a separate issue. It may have a place in this thread but no matter how many angles you see the play from or who else offers perspective on the play....it doesn't change what came out of Eli's mouth wich is what I was bringing to the discussion orginally.</P>


If you admit that Eli could have made a mistake, how is it you claim that he "cleared it up"?</P>

He cleared it up by saying that he expected MM to run the in-cut, but MM probably saw something that made him change the route. Isn't that clear?

burier
11-17-2011, 11:46 AM
Look if you're someone who can't interpret from What Eli said post game that Mario Manningham WAS NOT where he was supposed to be on the field then I don't know what to tell you.

You're either very stubborn or very very very thick.

you could also take from eli's comments that he had no idea what happened and he was expecting Mario to be there. Isn't it possible that he could of missed a read as well?


Absoultely! By no means would I ever suggest that Eli is above a mistake.

(personally if Mario and Eli both came up to me and blamed eachother for the INT I'd tend to go wtih Eli's word based on Eli's track record Vs Mario's)

But that's not the point. Like you said you went back and looked at the play again and you feel like Eli was at fault. That's all fine and good but it doesn't change what Eli SAID...To argue weather Eli's account of the play is accurate or not is a separate issue. It may have a place in this thread but no matter how many angles you see the play from or who else offers perspective on the play....it doesn't change what came out of Eli's mouth wich is what I was bringing to the discussion orginally.

what yr missing is that absolutely nowhere in Elis post game presser did he say anything about where Mario was "supposed" to be

he crystal clearly stated .... in not so many words....that they read the play differently and that he would have to look at the tape to see what actually happened

so yr argument is a bucket with 15 holes and holding very very little water

But he does say where Mario was supposed to be when he says he was on an incut.

As far as them reading the play differently...

That'd be like

EXAMPLE: Mario running a route Vs Man coverage in the fashion he SUPPOSED to run it against Zone coverage and then saying that He and QB read the play differently. In otherwords say he runs a Zone route when D is actually in Man

Sure Mario and QB read the play differently but Mario made an incorrect read. its not "Oh well they saw it differently. One thing happened the other thing didn't happen.

In this case...according to Eli Manning....Mario thought the QB was scrambling BUT THE QB WASNT SCRAMBLING...Mario reacting to something that didn't actually happen puts him in the wrong. There's no grey area here. Manning simply was not scrambling therefore Mario should not have altered his route. 1 +2 = 3

Now maybe Eli is wrong. Maybe Eli confused that play with another play in the playbook and Mario was supposed to break off his route based on coverage or other factors...thats fine...we can speculate about that but IT IS JUST SPECULATION as Eli (Or Mario for that matter) never said anything about any sight adjustments based on coverage or anything else. If we just look at what was acutally said we can gain clarity on what actually went down