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View Full Version : Here are the facts about why to bring in Cowher in January



BParcells777
11-26-2011, 10:24 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark

While its true Cowher only has 1 SB Victory...........
He has 21 playoffs games in 14 yrs while Tom only has 7 in 7 Yrs..........a huge diffference......Tom does not get it done in December

Mod_C
11-26-2011, 10:28 AM
Give it a rest

FBomb
11-26-2011, 10:28 AM
I like Cowher and I am ready for a change at the helm.Tired of the same old-same old year after year.

yoeddy
11-26-2011, 10:38 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark


Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher...

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 10:44 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark


Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher...

Maybe but its the age differential and need for change I'm homing in on.......Coughln has just voted the most disliked coach in the NFL.....by a poll of 107 players.......he's earned that repuation, and no one is running through brick walls for him in December

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 10:47 AM
Give it a rest


no problem.....I'm off the air for the rest of the day....just thought some of the Cowher detractors should face the facts

gumby742
11-26-2011, 10:47 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark


Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher...

It's a team sport.

Ruttiger711
11-26-2011, 10:50 AM
I've always liked Cowher, but god help him around here if he "only" brings one superbowl win in 15 years.

Mod_C
11-26-2011, 10:53 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark


Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher...

Maybe but its the age differential and need for change I'm homing in on.......Coughln has just voted the most despised coach in the NFL.....by a poll of 107 players.......he's earned that repuation, and no one is running through brick walls for him in December

A few days ago, you mis-stated what Justin Tuck said about the reason he's not playing well, inferring he's blaming the coaches. Now you are again, mis-representing the "vote" to which you refer, the word "despised" never appeared in any article on that subject and if it did, you need to produce the link. They players were asked to idetify the copach they'd least like to play for. 107 players out of about 1,696 N ONE of whom play for Coach Coughlin.

You were given a pretty long vacation once before, it's about to happen again.

Take whatever position you want on any subject matter, use facts to back up your position, but stop manufacturing information to make your point.

yoeddy
11-26-2011, 10:56 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark


Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher...

Maybe but its the age differential and need for change I'm homing in on.......Coughln has just voted the most despised coach in the NFL.....by a poll of 107 players.......he's earned that repuation, and no one is running through brick walls for him in December

Fwiw, Belichek was 2nd most despised coach on poll.

yoeddy
11-26-2011, 10:57 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark


Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher...

It's a team sport.

True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 10:57 AM
fixed but its splittig hairs a bit.....he's apparently not embraced by the team unless they are winning......players who have left and even some on the roster have been telling us this for years.....he's kind of aloof and cold....not his fault, that's his personality

Mod_C
11-26-2011, 11:01 AM
fixed but its splittig hairs a bit.....he's apparently not embraced by the team unless they are winning......<font color="#0000FF">players who have left and even some on the roster have been telling us this for years.</font>....he's kind of aloof and cold....not his fault, that's his personality

I am going to say this so even you will understand. You need to provide quotes and links if you are going to continue to do this. And when you use "*" you need to be quoting exactly what was said.

Clear?

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 11:02 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark


Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher...

Maybe but its the age differential and need for change I'm homing in on.......Coughln has just voted the most despised coach in the NFL.....by a poll of 107 players.......he's earned that repuation, and no one is running through brick walls for him in December

Fwiw, Belichek was 2nd most despised coach on poll.

Duly noted but I'd rather have Bellicheck in a nano second.......hes a football genius.....there have been very few of those over the years- Lombardy, Landry, Bill Walsh, Otto Graham.........and uhhhhhhhhhhh nobody????? Parcells maybe, Joe Gibbs maybe

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 11:06 AM
Hey have a nice day.....delete the post if it offends you....I have two kids I have to take care of here

Quotes??? Thats a big mission....there have been too many- Tiki,Plaxico, Rolle.....I'm sure there's more....gettting old, memory going

I know critizing Coughlin is like touching the 3rd rail but he';s had his chances......he's got one more- 6 Games, and the Grim Reaper is in the building....I wish him the best...I hate to lose

If you really want to protect old Tom delete the post....it won't change anything....he's got 6 games to save his job, and Cowher has hinted and The Bus came right out and said it- Cowher wants to coach the Giants in my opinion

scf424
11-26-2011, 11:09 AM
I just want to see fire out of the players. If they can't rally around Coughlin, then rally around each other.

The players are just as big of a problem.

yoeddy
11-26-2011, 11:13 AM
Hey have a nice day.....delete the post if it offends you....I have two kids I have to take care of here

Quotes??? Thats a big mission....there have been too many- Tiki,Plaxico, Rolle.....I'm sure there's more....gettting old, memory going

I know critizing Coughlin is like touching the 3rd rail but he';s had his chances......he's got one more- 6 Games, and the Grim Reaper is in the building....I wish him the best...I hate to lose

If you really want to protect old Tom delete the post....it won't change anything....he's got 6 games to save his job, and Cowher has hinted and The Bus came right out and said it- Cowher wants to coach the giants in my opinion

I think only the mods are allowed to delete posts...

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 11:15 AM
Hey have a nice day.....delete the post if it offends you....I have two kids I have to take care of here

Quotes??? Thats a big mission....there have been too many- Tiki,Plaxico, Rolle.....I'm sure there's more....gettting old, memory going

I know critizing Coughlin is like touching the 3rd rail but he';s had his chances......he's got one more- 6 Games, and the Grim Reaper is in the building....I wish him the best...I hate to lose

If you really want to protect old Tom delete the post....it won't change anything....he's got 6 games to save his job, and Cowher has hinted and The Bus came right out and said it- Cowher wants to coach the giants in my opinion

I think only the mods are allowed to delete posts...

he is a MOD nitwit

FBomb
11-26-2011, 11:15 AM
Just my 2 cents.....Jakk is certainly a polarizing character on this board and likes to stir the pot, but EVERY poster takes poetic license when "quoting" things said around the league....especially for effect.</P>


I never realized that was grounds for suspension or banishment.</P>

yoeddy
11-26-2011, 11:23 AM
Hey have a nice day.....delete the post if it offends you....I have two kids I have to take care of here

Quotes??? Thats a big mission....there have been too many- Tiki,Plaxico, Rolle.....I'm sure there's more....gettting old, memory going

I know critizing Coughlin is like touching the 3rd rail but he';s had his chances......he's got one more- 6 Games, and the Grim Reaper is in the building....I wish him the best...I hate to lose

If you really want to protect old Tom delete the post....it won't change anything....he's got 6 games to save his job, and Cowher has hinted and The Bus came right out and said it- Cowher wants to coach the giants in my opinion

I think only the mods are allowed to delete posts...

he is a MOD nitwit

Who? Your post didn't quote anyone, so I thought you were posting to everyone. And there's no reason to call the mod a nitwit...

tonyt830
11-26-2011, 11:26 AM
My opinion, Cowher is a tough, no nonsense, take no crap coach. And though his winning percentage is better and has more playoff appearances than Coughlin, he has 1 Lombardi to show for it.</P>


</P>


Now granted he is younger and could bring a toughness to the Giants, other changes would have to be made. It starts with the Ownership, GM, right down to the coaches and players.</P>


</P>


I'm all for a change, a fresh breath of air, if the Giants fall flat again. Whether the Giants feel Cowher is part of the solution, we will just have to wait and see.</P>

Mod_C
11-26-2011, 11:26 AM
Just my 2 cents.....Jakk is certainly a polarizing character on this board and likes to stir the pot, but EVERY poster takes poetic license when "quoting" things said around the league....especially for effect.</p>


I never realized that was grounds for suspension or banishment.</p>

It's why we require links for information that is attributable to someone else, especially when the someone else is a "personality." In the Tuck example, he quoted Tuck as saying something he didn't say. You just can't do that. Any more than a poster should say Fbomb said "xxxxxx" when that's not what you said.

We do encourage honest and lively exchange here, and I'm as liberal as you can gtet, but the lines have to be drawn at purposeful mis-information.

In short, if you are going to use quotation marks to separate words. sentences, paragraphs, etc., those words need to be exactly what was said.

On the other hand, if you are simply recalling what you believe someone else said, no harm, no foul most of the time.

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Hey have a nice day.....delete the post if it offends you....I have two kids I have to take care of here

Quotes??? Thats a big mission....there have been too many- Tiki,Plaxico, Rolle.....I'm sure there's more....gettting old, memory going

I know critizing Coughlin is like touching the 3rd rail but he';s had his chances......he's got one more- 6 Games, and the Grim Reaper is in the building....I wish him the best...I hate to lose

If you really want to protect old Tom delete the post....it won't change anything....he's got 6 games to save his job, and Cowher has hinted and The Bus came right out and said it- Cowher wants to coach the giants in my opinion

I think only the mods are allowed to delete posts...

he is a MOD nitwit

Who? Your post didn't quote anyone, so I thought you were posting to everyone. And there's no reason to call the mod a nitwit...

Hey Yeoddy have a nice day ....I called you one since you did not read the whole string or he is his hiding his responses......It was just a joke....calm down man.

The way I see it we have 2 good outcomes.....we go deep in the playoffs or we get a whole new coaching staff likely headed by Bill Cowher.......I'll settle for either

Mod_C
11-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Hey have a nice day.....delete the post if it offends you....I have two kids I have to take care of here

Quotes??? Thats a big mission....there have been too many- Tiki,Plaxico, Rolle.....I'm sure there's more....gettting old, memory going

I know critizing Coughlin is like touching the 3rd rail but he';s had his chances......he's got one more- 6 Games, and the Grim Reaper is in the building....I wish him the best...I hate to lose

If you really want to protect old Tom delete the post....it won't change anything....he's got 6 games to save his job, and Cowher has hinted and The Bus came right out and said it- Cowher wants to coach the Giants in my opinion

It's not about the subject, it's your mis-quoting. Had I wanted to delete your post, it would be gone.

FBomb
11-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Just my 2 cents.....Jakk is certainly a polarizing character on this board and likes to stir the pot, but EVERY poster takes poetic license when "quoting" things said around the league....especially for effect.</P>


I never realized that was grounds for suspension or banishment.</P>




It's why we require links for information that is attributable to someone else, especially when the someone else is a "personality." In the Tuck example, he quoted Tuck as saying something he didn't say. You just can't do that. Any more than a poster should say Fbomb said "xxxxxx" when that's not what you said.

We do encourage honest and lively exchange here, and I'm as liberal as you can gtet, but the lines have to be drawn at purposeful mis-information.

In short, if you are going to use quotation marks to separate words. sentences, paragraphs, etc., those words need to be exactly what was said.

On the other hand, if you are simply recalling what you believe someone else said, no harm, no foul most of the time.
</P>


Ok...I guess I didn't see the quotation marks before he removed them. My bad.</P>

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 11:31 AM
Just my 2 cents.....Jakk is certainly a polarizing character on this board and likes to stir the pot, but EVERY poster takes poetic license when "quoting" things said around the league....especially for effect.</p>


I never realized that was grounds for suspension or banishment.</p>

It's why we require links for information that is attributable to someone else, especially when the someone else is a "personality."* In the Tuck example, he quoted Tuck as saying something he didn't say.* You just can't do that.* Any more than a poster should say Fbomb said "xxxxxx" when that's not what you said.

We do encourage honest and lively exchange here, and I'm as liberal as you can gtet, but the lines have to be drawn at purposeful mis-information.*

In short, if you are going to use quotation marks to separate words. sentences, paragraphs, etc., those words need to be exactly what was said.

On the other hand, if you are simply recalling what you believe someone else said, no harm, no foul most of the time.


Duly noted......if I totaly mis-quoted something or someone I apologize.....thats unacceptable

did not even realize I'd done it......as for Tuck I don't want to hear anything from him until he begins to play like "Tuck" again

I agree

Mod_C
11-26-2011, 11:34 AM
Just my 2 cents.....Jakk is certainly a polarizing character on this board and likes to stir the pot, but EVERY poster takes poetic license when "quoting" things said around the league....especially for effect.</p>


I never realized that was grounds for suspension or banishment.</p>

It's why we require links for information that is attributable to someone else, especially when the someone else is a "personality." In the Tuck example, he quoted Tuck as saying something he didn't say. You just can't do that. Any more than a poster should say Fbomb said "xxxxxx" when that's not what you said.

We do encourage honest and lively exchange here, and I'm as liberal as you can gtet, but the lines have to be drawn at purposeful mis-information.

In short, if you are going to use quotation marks to separate words. sentences, paragraphs, etc., those words need to be exactly what was said.

On the other hand, if you are simply recalling what you believe someone else said, no harm, no foul most of the time.


Duly noted......if I totaly mis-quoted something or someone I apologize.....thats unacceptable

I agree

You actually post some very thought provoking issues which is why this MB exists. Keep it honest and I will get back to my nap!

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 11:38 AM
thanks you too.....a lot of these guys who moderate do not contribute

have a nice holiday

Mod_C
11-26-2011, 11:42 AM
thanks you too.....a lot of these guys who moderate do not contribute

have a nice holiday

And to you and yours as well. We all have our cranky pants days [;)]

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 11:43 AM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.

FBomb
11-26-2011, 11:45 AM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player. How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 11:53 AM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player.* How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>

You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up.

There is you answer. lol away.

FBomb
11-26-2011, 11:57 AM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player. How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>


You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up. There is you answer. lol away.</P>


I will, thanks....because it's total nonsense. It may hold true if a guy has been completely disassociated with the sport for a few years....but he hasn't.</P>


Cowher is eventually going to be a HC again, whether it's in NY or not. I hope you are still laughing when he comes back.</P>

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 12:03 PM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player.* How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>


You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up. There is you answer. lol away.</P>


I will, thanks....because it's total nonsense.* It may hold true if a guy has been completely disassociated with the sport for a few years....but he hasn't.</P>


Cowher is eventually going to be a HC again, whether it's in NY or not.* I hope you are still laughing when he comes back.</P>

I never said he wouldn't coach again. Just making reference to Parcells and Acorssi. Considering your track record, I'll take their feedback as opposed to yours.

FBomb
11-26-2011, 12:13 PM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player. How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>


You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up. There is you answer. lol away.</P>


I will, thanks....because it's total nonsense. It may hold true if a guy has been completely disassociated with the sport for a few years....but he hasn't.</P>


Cowher is eventually going to be a HC again, whether it's in NY or not. I hope you are still laughing when he comes back.</P>


I never said he wouldn't coach again. Just making reference to Parcells and Acorssi. Considering your track record, I'll take their feedback as opposed to yours.</P>


lol..."my track record"??? WTF are you even talking about?? </P>


You said he's "not the answer" because someone else let the the game pass them by while they were out of the game and had trouble catching up? Neither Parcells or Acorsi can speak for Cowher.</P>

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 12:37 PM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player.* How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>


You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up. There is you answer. lol away.</P>


I will, thanks....because it's total nonsense.* It may hold true if a guy has been completely disassociated with the sport for a few years....but he hasn't.</P>


Cowher is eventually going to be a HC again, whether it's in NY or not.* I hope you are still laughing when he comes back.</P>


I never said he wouldn't coach again. Just making reference to Parcells and Acorssi. Considering your track record, I'll take their feedback as opposed to yours.</P>


lol..."my track record"???* WTF are you even talking about?? </P>


You said he's "not the answer" because someone else let the the game pass them by while they were out of the game and had trouble catching up?* Neither Parcells or Acorsi can speak for Cowher.</P>

I believe they are speaking on the behalf of the NFL and all coaches. I don't believe either is consider a punk or clueless in the eyes of the NFL or most fans so I'll take the word of the experts as opposed to a guy who calls himself "fbomb".

FBomb
11-26-2011, 12:43 PM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player. How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>


You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up. There is you answer. lol away.</P>


I will, thanks....because it's total nonsense. It may hold true if a guy has been completely disassociated with the sport for a few years....but he hasn't.</P>


Cowher is eventually going to be a HC again, whether it's in NY or not. I hope you are still laughing when he comes back.</P>


I never said he wouldn't coach again. Just making reference to Parcells and Acorssi. Considering your track record, I'll take their feedback as opposed to yours.</P>


lol..."my track record"??? WTF are you even talking about?? </P>


You said he's "not the answer" because someone else let the the game pass them by while they were out of the game and had trouble catching up? Neither Parcells or Acorsi can speak for Cowher.</P>


I believe they are speaking on the behalf of the NFL and all coaches. I don't consider either a punk so I'll take the word of the experts as opposed to a guy who calls himself "fbomb".</P>


ah....so "my track record" is my board name? Well, at least you're not writing off my opionins on something "frivolous".</P>


When Cowher does return as a HC somewhere, I expect you and I will revisit this.</P>

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 12:48 PM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player.* How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>


You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up. There is you answer. lol away.</P>


I will, thanks....because it's total nonsense.* It may hold true if a guy has been completely disassociated with the sport for a few years....but he hasn't.</P>


Cowher is eventually going to be a HC again, whether it's in NY or not.* I hope you are still laughing when he comes back.</P>


I never said he wouldn't coach again. Just making reference to Parcells and Acorssi. Considering your track record, I'll take their feedback as opposed to yours.</P>


lol..."my track record"???* WTF are you even talking about?? </P>


You said he's "not the answer" because someone else let the the game pass them by while they were out of the game and had trouble catching up?* Neither Parcells or Acorsi can speak for Cowher.</P>


I believe they are speaking on the behalf of the NFL and all coaches. I don't consider either a punk so I'll take the word of the experts as opposed to a guy who calls himself "fbomb".</P>


ah....so "my track record" is my board name?* Well, at least you're not writing off my opionins on something "frivolous".</P>


When Cowher does return as a HC somewhere, I expect you and I will revisit this.</P>

Never said your track record was your board name, you just did.

Anyway, I'm still going to take the word of NFL experts and my own acumen as opposed to yours. As far as Cowher, who was never an X's and O's guy as much as he was a motivator (i'm sure your up to speed on this), I'd pass on him for a coach who hasn't been removed from the game as much as Cowher.

Maybe if Cowher does become the next Giant coach write a song about it. F-bomb Cowher, bounce around a stage and send us the video. I'm sure it will be a hit :)

yoeddy
11-26-2011, 01:01 PM
Hey have a nice day.....delete the post if it offends you....I have two kids I have to take care of here

Quotes??? Thats a big mission....there have been too many- Tiki,Plaxico, Rolle.....I'm sure there's more....gettting old, memory going

I know critizing Coughlin is like touching the 3rd rail but he';s had his chances......he's got one more- 6 Games, and the Grim Reaper is in the building....I wish him the best...I hate to lose

If you really want to protect old Tom delete the post....it won't change anything....he's got 6 games to save his job, and Cowher has hinted and The Bus came right out and said it- Cowher wants to coach the giants in my opinion

I think only the mods are allowed to delete posts...

he is a MOD nitwit

Who? Your post didn't quote anyone, so I thought you were posting to everyone. And there's no reason to call the mod a nitwit...

Hey Yeoddy have a nice day ....I called you one since you did not read the whole string or he is his hiding his responses......It was just a joke....calm down man.

The way I see it we have 2 good outcomes.....we go deep in the playoffs or we get a whole new coaching staff likely headed by Bill Cowher.......I'll settle for either

Ok, nitwit...

I think Coughlin is a better coach than Cowher...Cowher would not deal with the injuries as well...

FBomb
11-26-2011, 01:04 PM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</P>


lol.....Cowher is not a player. How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</P>


You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up. There is you answer. lol away.</P>


I will, thanks....because it's total nonsense. It may hold true if a guy has been completely disassociated with the sport for a few years....but he hasn't.</P>


Cowher is eventually going to be a HC again, whether it's in NY or not. I hope you are still laughing when he comes back.</P>


I never said he wouldn't coach again. Just making reference to Parcells and Acorssi. Considering your track record, I'll take their feedback as opposed to yours.</P>


lol..."my track record"??? WTF are you even talking about?? </P>


You said he's "not the answer" because someone else let the the game pass them by while they were out of the game and had trouble catching up? Neither Parcells or Acorsi can speak for Cowher.</P>


I believe they are speaking on the behalf of the NFL and all coaches. I don't consider either a punk so I'll take the word of the experts as opposed to a guy who calls himself "fbomb".</P>


ah....so "my track record" is my board name? Well, at least you're not writing off my opionins on something "frivolous".</P>


When Cowher does return as a HC somewhere, I expect you and I will revisit this.</P>


Never said your track record was your board name, you just did. Anyway, I'm still going to take the word of NFL experts and my own acumen as opposed to yours. As far as Cowher, who was never an X's and O's guy as much as he was a motivator (i'm sure your up to speed on this), I'd pass on him for a coach who hasn't been removed from the game as much as Cowher. Maybe if Cowher does become the next Giant coach write a song about it. F-bomb Cowher, bounce around a stage and send us the video. I'm sure it will be a hit :)</P>


um......you may want re-read what you said. You said you will take thier word over mine based on my track record..I asked for clarification on "my track record"....and then said you will take thier word over mine because I use "Fbomb" as a screen name.......</P>


TC is an excellent X's an O's coach.....but his motivating skills leave a lot to be desired. One only has to watch us rollover after getting punched in the mouth by the Eagles. A motivating HC is exactly what this team needs.</P>


Again, I have a feeling this subject will be brought up again when he returns to coaching.</P>


I'm not really sure what my chosen vocation has to do with this discussion, but then again I wasn't sure why my board name was brought into it either. I suspect it was some sort of attack for disagreeing with you.....sensitive girls tend to argue that way.</P>

Marvelousmik
11-26-2011, 01:12 PM
Cowher is not the answer. Espeically considering how long he's been out of the game.</p>


lol.....Cowher is not a player. How does his time away as a HC have a negative effect on his ability to coach??</p>


You really do make me laugh. Bill Parcells himself claimed the game evolves so quickly you fall way behind after being away for only 2 years. After 2 years, some coaches get really blindsided by the changes. NFL on Sirius also had Acorsi on who commented about coaches having to be closer to the game than ever before b/c they'll never catch up. There is you answer. lol away.</p>


I will, thanks....because it's total nonsense. It may hold true if a guy has been completely disassociated with the sport for a few years....but he hasn't.</p>


Cowher is eventually going to be a HC again, whether it's in NY or not. I hope you are still laughing when he comes back.</p>


I never said he wouldn't coach again. Just making reference to Parcells and Acorssi. Considering your track record, I'll take their feedback as opposed to yours.</p>


lol..."my track record"??? WTF are you even talking about?? </p>


You said he's "not the answer" because someone else let the the game pass them by while they were out of the game and had trouble catching up? Neither Parcells or Acorsi can speak for Cowher.</p>


I believe they are speaking on the behalf of the NFL and all coaches. I don't consider either a punk so I'll take the word of the experts as opposed to a guy who calls himself "fbomb".</p>


ah....so "my track record" is my board name? Well, at least you're not writing off my opionins on something "frivolous".</p>


When Cowher does return as a HC somewhere, I expect you and I will revisit this.</p>

Never said your track record was your board name, you just did.

Anyway, I'm still going to take the word of NFL experts and my own acumen as opposed to yours. As far as Cowher, who was never an X's and O's guy as much as he was a motivator (i'm sure your up to speed on this), I'd pass on him for a coach who hasn't been removed from the game as much as Cowher.

Maybe if Cowher does become the next Giant coach write a song about it. F-bomb Cowher, bounce around a stage and send us the video. I'm sure it will be a hit :)

not taking any sides here, but who would you prefer as a head coach? It seems like all the good ones are taken.

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 01:17 PM
Sry you take my posts personal, you should be more confident and not. Stating what other coaches and GM have said doesn't make me a sensative girl. If I turned a deaf ear and didn't respect the opinions of coaches and GM's who have been around the game with a strong track record, I'd consider myself a punk.

GMENAGAIN
11-26-2011, 01:21 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark


Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher...

Maybe but its the age differential and need for change I'm homing in on.......Coughln has just voted the most disliked coach in the NFL.....by a poll of 107 players.......he's earned that repuation, and no one is running through brick walls for him in December
Please post the records of the "most liked" coaches in the NFL . . . . .

LOL . . . if Cowher were here, he never would have won a championship in his 15th year because you guys would have run him out of town by then . . . . .

GMENAGAIN
11-26-2011, 01:24 PM
I like Cowher and I am ready for a change at the helm.*Tired of the same old-same old year after year.
FBomb . . . . did you just agree with a Jack Stroud post????/

FBomb
11-26-2011, 01:26 PM
Sry you take my posts personal, you should be more confident and not. Stating what other coaches and GM have said doesn't make me a sensative girl. If I turned a deaf ear and didn't respect the opinions of coaches and GM's who have been around the game with a strong track record, I'd consider myself a punk.</P>


**sigh** are you misreading my posts on purpose or is your reading comprehension really that poor?</P>


You're right, stating what other coaches and GM's said doesn't make you a sensitive little girl, but that isn't what I said now was it?</P>


edit....I'm not taking your posts personally, you are making them personal.</P>

giantsfan420
11-26-2011, 01:27 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories.

I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC.

I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him.

im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second

FBomb
11-26-2011, 01:27 PM
I like Cowher and I am ready for a change at the helm.Tired of the same old-same old year after year. FBomb . . . . did you just agree with a Jack Stroud post????/</P>


Jakk may be a bit eccentric but he isn't wrong all the time.</P>

appodictic
11-26-2011, 01:45 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark

While its true Cowher only has 1 SB Victory...........
He has 21 playoffs games in 14 yrs while Tom only has 7 in 7 Yrs..........a huge diffference......Tom does not get it done in December

From your stats i feel we should get parcels back. I want SB not win %

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 01:58 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories.

I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC.

I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him.

im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second+1

fightngiant
11-26-2011, 02:11 PM
At this point even bringin someone such as Colin Cowherd would be an upgrade

jakegibbs
11-26-2011, 02:20 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark

While its true Cowher only has 1 SB Victory...........
He has 21 playoffs games in 14 yrs while Tom only has 7 in 7 Yrs..........a huge diffference......Tom does not get it done in December

I hate to disagree with anyone but bringing in Cowher would be a sideways step. You won't gain or lose anything. He's no better than TC not that he's bad but definately no better. Cowher took 15 yrs to win a SB & I believe TC did it in 14 years.

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 02:26 PM
Who to be the next head coach is a tricky question and tough to answer.

Even though this league is really predicated on offense, Id still prefer a defensive coach. For example, Id much rather have a John Fox than a Sean Payton.

The toughest part about landing a DC, is getting a 4-3 guy as opposed to a 3-4 guy. That decision could really be predicated on JPP as I believe the Osi era is coming to a close shortly and Tuck, as much as I love him as a Giant, has had many more injuries than just his neck. We will see.

As far as the candidates and in no particular order

Spags that easy, if Spags gets canned, yeah, I want him

Toub the DC for the Bears. Hes a solid 4-3 guy

VanGorder the DC for the Falcons.

Greg Williams DC for the Saints. He has a lot of experience

Pagano the DC from the Ravens. Has experience in both the 4-3 and 3-4.

Pepper Johnson the Giants better change to a 3-4 if Pepper were to come aboard. Hes been with Belicheck forever. Maybe I like Pepper more than him being a HC.

FBomb
11-26-2011, 02:31 PM
Who to be the next head coach is a tricky question and tough to answer. Even though this league is really predicated on offense, Id still prefer a defensive coach. For example, Id much rather have a John Fox than a Sean Payton. The toughest part about landing a DC, is getting a 4-3 guy as opposed to a 3-4 guy. That decision could really be predicated on JPP as I believe the Osi era is coming to a close shortly and Tuck, as much as I love him as a Giant, has had many more injuries than just his neck. We will see. As far as the candidates and in no particular order Spags that easy, if Spags gets canned, yeah, I want him Toub the DC for the Bears. Hes a solid 4-3 guy VanGorder the DC for the Falcons. Greg Williams DC for the Saints. He has a lot of experience Pagano the DC from the Ravens. Has experience in both the 4-3 and 3-4. Pepper Johnson the Giants better change to a 3-4 if Pepper were to come aboard. Hes been with Belicheck forever. Maybe I like Pepper more than him being a HC.</P>


Now on THIS we can agree. Give me a defensive minded coach every time!! Fear is a great equalizer.</P>

RagTime Blue
11-26-2011, 02:35 PM
Something tells me that if Cowher coached again, it would just be for a payday, and he wouldn't be as hungry as some of the other coaches.

I'd like to see the Reese use his scouting talents to scout a first-time HC worth keeping here for 20 years.

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 02:37 PM
Who to be the next head coach is a tricky question and tough to answer. Even though this league is really predicated on offense, Id still prefer a defensive coach. For example, Id much rather have a John Fox than a Sean Payton. The toughest part about landing a DC, is getting a 4-3 guy as opposed to a 3-4 guy. That decision could really be predicated on JPP as I believe the Osi era is coming to a close shortly and Tuck, as much as I love him as a Giant, has had many more injuries than just his neck. We will see. As far as the candidates and in no particular order Spags that easy, if Spags gets canned, yeah, I want him Toub the DC for the Bears. Hes a solid 4-3 guy VanGorder the DC for the Falcons. Greg Williams DC for the Saints. He has a lot of experience Pagano the DC from the Ravens. Has experience in both the 4-3 and 3-4. Pepper Johnson the Giants better change to a 3-4 if Pepper were to come aboard. Hes been with Belicheck forever. Maybe I like Pepper more than him being a HC.</P>


Now on THIS we can agree.* Give me a defensive minded coach every time!!* Fear is a great equalizer.</P>

Great

I picked them b/c they're stil in the game and not away like the Cowhers and Gruden's of the world. Those two will be a top the hype list along with a sprinkle of Billick, Fischer and even Parcells in all liklihood. Somebody might even bring up Marty ball.

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 02:39 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark While its true Cowher only has 1 SB Victory........... He has 21 playoffs games in 14 yrs while Tom only has 7 in 7 Yrs..........a huge diffference......Tom does not get it done in December</P>


I remember Jacobs and Bradshaw being the best running back tandem in the league under Coughlin. </P>


The difference between then and now is a matter of the guys they have blocking in front of them, and the age and health of Jacobs and Bradshaw.</P>


That's notCoughlin's job.</P>


I'm guessing Coughlin and Gilbride are going to gameplan as best they can to get Da'Rel Scott some more chances in the game, mindful of what's at stake with respect to pass protection.</P>


Gregg Williams loves to dial up the blitz, and we'll be sure to see it if/when Scott is on the field.</P>


Coughlin &amp; Gilbride are definitely going to earn their supper if they can work something out.</P>

SweetZombieJesus
11-26-2011, 02:45 PM
I say Cowher's the man but now he's not exactly young anymore.

I Bleed Blue 56
11-26-2011, 02:46 PM
There is no comparison cowher built a team that has gone and won superbowls right after he left. If he was still there he would have 3 championships under his belt. Coughlin hasnt built nuthing here but gray hair and increase in sales for tynelol with his b.s coaching staff minus spags.

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 02:46 PM
Who to be the next head coach is a tricky question and tough to answer. Even though this league is really predicated on offense, Id still prefer a defensive coach. For example, Id much rather have a John Fox than a Sean Payton. The toughest part about landing a DC, is getting a 4-3 guy as opposed to a 3-4 guy. That decision could really be predicated on JPP as I believe the Osi era is coming to a close shortly and Tuck, as much as I love him as a Giant, has had many more injuries than just his neck. We will see. As far as the candidates and in no particular order Spags that easy, if Spags gets canned, yeah, I want him Toub the DC for the Bears. Hes a solid 4-3 guy VanGorder the DC for the Falcons. Greg Williams DC for the Saints. He has a lot of experience Pagano the DC from the Ravens. Has experience in both the 4-3 and 3-4. Pepper Johnson the Giants better change to a 3-4 if Pepper were to come aboard. Hes been with Belicheck forever. Maybe I like Pepper more than him being a HC.</P>


Toub isn't the DC for the Bears. Rod Marinelli is. And if you hired him, you might as well keep Fewell because Lovie runs a similar system with his Tampa-2.....the only exception being they have the linebackers to make it work without going to a 4-2-5 and sacrificing force against the run.</P>

Roosevelt
11-26-2011, 02:47 PM
I like Cowher and I am ready for a change at the helm.Tired of the same old-same old year after year.

I think it's too early to be talking about this.

keyofgmen
11-26-2011, 02:49 PM
Bo Pelini will be the next Giant HC....trust me!

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 02:52 PM
Who to be the next head coach is a tricky question and tough to answer. Even though this league is really predicated on offense, Id still prefer a defensive coach. For example, Id much rather have a John Fox than a Sean Payton. The toughest part about landing a DC, is getting a 4-3 guy as opposed to a 3-4 guy. That decision could really be predicated on JPP as I believe the Osi era is coming to a close shortly and Tuck, as much as I love him as a Giant, has had many more injuries than just his neck. We will see. As far as the candidates and in no particular order Spags that easy, if Spags gets canned, yeah, I want him Toub the DC for the Bears. Hes a solid 4-3 guy VanGorder the DC for the Falcons. Greg Williams DC for the Saints. He has a lot of experience Pagano the DC from the Ravens. Has experience in both the 4-3 and 3-4. Pepper Johnson the Giants better change to a 3-4 if Pepper were to come aboard. Hes been with Belicheck forever. Maybe I like Pepper more than him being a HC.</P>


Toub isn't the DC for the Bear.* Rod Marinelli is.* And if you hired him, you might as well keep Fewell because Lovie runs a similar system with his Tampa-2.....the only exception being they have the linebackers to make it work without going to a 4-2-5 and sacrificing force against the run.</P>

You're right, he's not DC. I've yet however, seen the Bears use that zone blitz where both DE drop into coverage nor have we seen DE's across the entire LOS with DB's playing LB like we did against the Colts last year.

Now, if he's anything like Fewell's read and react, no, I wouldn't want him. That's a nice defense when you're at a disadvantage like the Bucs were against the Greatest Show on Turf but I don't like to see it implemented against the Rex Grossman's of the league.

NYSPORTS
11-26-2011, 02:53 PM
Bo Pelini will be the next Giant HC....trust me!

That's a good name and I could see Jerry Reese going down that road. Very good.

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 02:55 PM
Who to be the next head coach is a tricky question and tough to answer. Even though this league is really predicated on offense, Id still prefer a defensive coach. For example, Id much rather have a John Fox than a Sean Payton. The toughest part about landing a DC, is getting a 4-3 guy as opposed to a 3-4 guy. That decision could really be predicated on JPP as I believe the Osi era is coming to a close shortly and Tuck, as much as I love him as a Giant, has had many more injuries than just his neck. We will see. As far as the candidates and in no particular order Spags that easy, if Spags gets canned, yeah, I want him Toub the DC for the Bears. Hes a solid 4-3 guy VanGorder the DC for the Falcons. Greg Williams DC for the Saints. He has a lot of experience Pagano the DC from the Ravens. Has experience in both the 4-3 and 3-4. Pepper Johnson the Giants better change to a 3-4 if Pepper were to come aboard. Hes been with Belicheck forever. Maybe I like Pepper more than him being a HC.</P>


Toub isn't the DC for the Bear. Rod Marinelli is. And if you hired him, you might as well keep Fewell because Lovie runs a similar system with his Tampa-2.....the only exception being they have the linebackers to make it work without going to a 4-2-5 and sacrificing force against the run.</P>


You're right, he's not DC. I've yet however, seen the Bears use that zone blitz where both DE drop into coverage nor have we seen DE's across the entire LOS with DB's playing LB like we did against the Colts last year. Now, if he's anything like Fewell's read and react, no, I wouldn't want him. That's a nice defense when you're at a disadvantage like the Bucs were against the Greatest Show on Turf but I don't like to see it implemented against the Rex Grossman's of the league.</P>


I agree....the defensive schemes against the likes of Grossman and Whitehurst were frustrating, to say the least.</P>

byron
11-26-2011, 03:02 PM
I like Cowher and I am ready for a change at the helm.Tired of the same old-same old year after year.

I think it's too early to be talking about this.
or to late;)

SweetZombieJesus
11-26-2011, 03:06 PM
My opinion, Cowher is a tough, no nonsense, take no crap coach. And though his winning percentage is better and has more playoff appearances than Coughlin, he has 1 Lombardi to show for it.</p>True -- in 2 appearances and 10 trips to the playoffs.

But I'm reminded of a fact the Eggholes fans throw around on their board when talking about firing Andy Reid. NO coach has ever won Super Bowls with two different teams.

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 03:06 PM
I like Cowher and I am ready for a change at the helm.Tired of the same old-same old year after year.

I think it's too early to be talking about this.
</P>


I have to agree. </P>


I'll admit I'm guilty of it too.... I was highly critical of Reese while Philly was building their Dream Team, and now I'm back on that horse. It's time for me to get back down and wait for the rest of the season to play out, because the Giants still control their own destiny.</P>


There is ateam that looks tremendous (the Packers) and a team that looks like roadkill (the Colts). And then, there is the rest of the NFL, with the "any given Sunday" cliches that follow.</P>


Maybe it's just fan bias on my part, but the Giants completely baffle me. I'm not kidding when I say the Eagles loss didn't surprise me in the least. But prior to that, they shocked me in Foxboro.</P>


The Giantscanoverwhelm an opponent's passing game, and score from anywhere on the field. If they can shore up the running game, even a little, they have a slugger's chance to knock out any other team, including the Packers.</P>


So, I'm going to try to hold back further criticism until the season is over. I'll probably fail repeatedly, but I'm going to at least try while they are still mathematically in the hunt.</P>


</P>

yoeddy
11-26-2011, 03:16 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories.

I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC.

I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him.

im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second

What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 03:20 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories. I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC. I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him. im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?</P>


That's a good point.</P>


Spags might be another Dom Capers - a great DC that had his shot at HC and didn't pan out.</P>


But, the Rams....that's a tough franchise to turn around.</P>


My worry is that Spags gets fired and then the Eagles make a hard run at him to replace Castillo.</P>

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 03:22 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories.

I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC.

I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him.

im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second

What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?The only point in this post that I didn't agree with. I like Spags but so far, he has failed miserably as a HC.

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 03:25 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories. I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC. I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him. im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?</P>


That's a good point.</P>


Spags might be another Dom Capers - a great DC that had his shot at HC and didn't pan out.</P>


But, the Rams....that's a tough franchise to turn around.</P>


My worry is that Spags gets fired and then the Eagles make a hard run at him to replace Castillo.</P>How is turning around a team in the NFL's weakest division such a tough task?

SweetZombieJesus
11-26-2011, 03:25 PM
Pepper Johnson the Giants better change to a 3-4 if Pepper were to come aboard. Hes been with Belicheck forever.

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 03:37 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories. I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC. I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him. im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?</P>


That's a good point.</P>


Spags might be another Dom Capers - a great DC that had his shot at HC and didn't pan out.</P>


But, the Rams....that's a tough franchise to turn around.</P>


My worry is that Spags gets fired and then the Eagles make a hard run at him to replace Castillo.</P>


How is turning around a team in the NFL's weakest division such a tough task?</P>


Look at the Rams roster.</P>

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 03:48 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories. I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC. I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him. im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?</P>


That's a good point.</P>


Spags might be another Dom Capers - a great DC that had his shot at HC and didn't pan out.</P>


But, the Rams....that's a tough franchise to turn around.</P>


My worry is that Spags gets fired and then the Eagles make a hard run at him to replace Castillo.</P>


How is turning around a team in the NFL's weakest division such a tough task?</P>


Look at the Rams roster.</P>Ok, now go look at Arizona's and Seattle's roster. All NFL teams got talent, how you utilize it is what separates the good teams from the bad teams.

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 03:51 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories. I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC. I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him. im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?</P>


That's a good point.</P>


Spags might be another Dom Capers - a great DC that had his shot at HC and didn't pan out.</P>


But, the Rams....that's a tough franchise to turn around.</P>


My worry is that Spags gets fired and then the Eagles make a hard run at him to replace Castillo.</P>


How is turning around a team in the NFL's weakest division such a tough task?</P>


Look at the Rams roster.</P>


Ok, now go look at Arizona's and Seattle's roster. All NFL teams got talent, how you utilize it is what separates the good teams from the bad teams.</P>


What's your point?.... Arizona's coach was good enough to get to theSuper Bowl. Seattle's coach has won national championships. They are sucking as hard as Spags is now....all 3 of them have one thing in common - weak rosters.</P>

RoanokeFan
11-26-2011, 04:03 PM
I like Cowher and I am ready for a change at the helm.Tired of the same old-same old year after year.

I think it's too early to be talking about this.


It is, Rosie. This is end of the season talk run amok. There are three factors John Mara and Jerry Reese are going to take into account that our learned poster friends won't:

1. Injuries, not only that we have more than our fair share this season, but when they happened, who was available as the "next man up." Tom Coughlin is responsible for fielding the team he's handed by Jerry Reese.

2. CAP space. We were $7M over the CAP before camp started. Yes, we can argue ad nauseum about how THAT happened but the reality is it happened and John Mara and Jerry Reese are responsible for that.

3. IR. Every player on IR is getting paid his salary by contract agreement. For every player on IR that is replaced, we are also responsible for that player's salary package. So, when posters as 'is Baas the best center Reese could find", the answer is probably by virtue of what kind of money was available and who else was out there who could have been considered. The reality is we've yet to climb out of the CAP cellar and are going nto have to make some tough cuts in the off season just to have some chance at competitive bidding during FA.

There is a growing groundswell for TC to be replaced but that decision will be made in the light of day by businessmen who have been making these decisions for a long time. They also have something to do with where TC finds himself in terms of personnel.

However, if TC is relieved, we then start a rebuilding process that can take several seasons to produce a winning record. New coaches, new philosophies make for an extended learning curve.

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 04:04 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories. I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC. I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him. im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?</P>


That's a good point.</P>


Spags might be another Dom Capers - a great DC that had his shot at HC and didn't pan out.</P>


But, the Rams....that's a tough franchise to turn around.</P>


My worry is that Spags gets fired and then the Eagles make a hard run at him to replace Castillo.</P>


How is turning around a team in the NFL's weakest division such a tough task?</P>


Look at the Rams roster.</P>


Ok, now go look at Arizona's and Seattle's roster. All NFL teams got talent, how you utilize it is what separates the good teams from the bad teams.</P>


What's your point?.... Arizona's coach was good enough to get to the*Super Bowl.* Seattle's coach has won national championships.* They are sucking as hard as Spags is now....all 3 of them have one thing in common - weak rosters.</P>What's my point? Spags helped win a Superbowl as a defensive coordinator... as a HC, he has done squat unless there's a trophy out there for losing. Maybe he oughta go appear on "The Biggest Loser" show.

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 04:06 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories. I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC. I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him. im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?</P>


That's a good point.</P>


Spags might be another Dom Capers - a great DC that had his shot at HC and didn't pan out.</P>


But, the Rams....that's a tough franchise to turn around.</P>


My worry is that Spags gets fired and then the Eagles make a hard run at him to replace Castillo.</P>


How is turning around a team in the NFL's weakest division such a tough task?</P>


Look at the Rams roster.</P>


Ok, now go look at Arizona's and Seattle's roster. All NFL teams got talent, how you utilize it is what separates the good teams from the bad teams.</P>


What's your point?.... Arizona's coach was good enough to get to theSuper Bowl. Seattle's coach has won national championships. They are sucking as hard as Spags is now....all 3 of them have one thing in common - weak rosters.</P>


What's my point? Spags helped win a Superbowl as a defensive coordinator... as a HC, he has done squat unless there's a trophy out there for losing.</P>


My point is Spags is a good coach. He needs some talent, though....he had it with the Giants, he doesn't have it with the Rams.</P>

SweetZombieJesus
11-26-2011, 04:26 PM
It is, Rosie. This is end of the season talk run amok. There are three factors John Mara and Jerry Reese are going to take into account that our learned poster friends won't:

There's one factor you won't take into account -- the repeated pattern of failure.

Late season meltdowns. Inability to win big games. Complete inability to fix problems. No resiliency. The team can beat anybody one week and then look like sleepwalking, heartless zombies the next.

Even more egregious, the window that was created in the afterglow of the 2007 Super Bowl victory is pretty much closed -- squandered.

I'm sure John Mara is thrilled with all the late season failures we've had under Coughlin and the fact that they keep on happening. Even worse is how much both the coaches and the players just don't have answers -- not like they ever have when we've had these uninspired performances (go back to the 23-0 home playoff loss to the Panthers in 2005), but their bewilderment over it this year is heavily pronounced. Coughlin has no answers, Tuck has no answers, Jacobs has no answers. Nobody does. The good ship Coughlin is rudderless.

Too bad when Mara promised "big changes" in 2009 we didn't get them. We got the same result in 2010 and we're staring down the barrel of another repeat in 2011.

The three factors you listed are EXCUSES, one can look around the league and find examples that counteract each. This team seems to have excuses every year.

Look at the 2010 Packers if you need an example of overcoming injuries.

RoanokeFan
11-26-2011, 04:53 PM
It is, Rosie. This is end of the season talk run amok. There are three factors John Mara and Jerry Reese are going to take into account that our learned poster friends won't:

There's one factor you won't take into account -- the repeated pattern of failure.

Late season meltdowns. Inability to win big games. Complete inability to fix problems. No resiliency. The team can beat anybody one week and then look like sleepwalking, heartless zombies the next.

Even more egregious, the window that was created in the afterglow of the 2007 Super Bowl victory is pretty much closed -- squandered.

I'm sure John Mara is thrilled with all the late season failures we've had under Coughlin and the fact that they keep on happening. Even worse is how much both the coaches and the players just don't have answers -- not like they ever have when we've had these uninspired performances (go back to the 23-0 home playoff loss to the Panthers in 2005), but their bewilderment over it this year is heavily pronounced. Coughlin has no answers, Tuck has no answers, Jacobs has no answers. Nobody does. The good ship Coughlin is rudderless.

Too bad when Mara promised "big changes" in 2009 we didn't get them. We got the same result in 2010 and we're staring down the barrel of another repeat in 2011.

The three factors you listed are EXCUSES, one can look around the league and find examples that counteract each. This team seems to have excuses every year.

Look at the 2010 Packers if you need an example of overcoming injuries.


I know what the records are and I am sure that will be taken into account at the end of the season. I'm simply saying what posters say they are not willing to factor in, will be part of the decision making process by the people who actually get to make the decision.

You also may want to consider the loyalty factor. This organization is very loyal to its permanent personnel (which excludes most players who are transient by nature).

As for the 2010 packers, I've not yet given up on the 2011 GIANTS as you and so many others seem to have. I believe we can win the rest of the games on the schedule.

SweetZombieJesus
11-26-2011, 05:51 PM
Well, after further review, neither of our arguments may be the prime motivator in this year's coaching decision.

3 years of missing the playoffs answers the question if it should happen and the how/why won't matter.

gmen46
11-26-2011, 06:02 PM
It is, Rosie.* This is end of the season talk run amok.* There are three factors John Mara and Jerry Reese are going to take into account that our learned poster friends won't:

There's one factor you won't take into account -- the repeated pattern of failure.

Late season meltdowns.* Inability to win big games.* Complete inability to fix problems.* No resiliency.* The team can beat anybody one week and then look like sleepwalking, heartless zombies the next.

Even more egregious, the window that was created in the afterglow of the 2007 Super Bowl victory is pretty much closed -- squandered.

I'm sure John Mara is thrilled with all the late season failures we've had under Coughlin and the fact that they keep on happening.* Even worse is how much both the coaches and the players just don't have answers -- not like they ever have when we've had these uninspired performances (go back to the 23-0 home playoff loss to the Panthers in 2005), but their bewilderment over it this year is heavily pronounced.* Coughlin has no answers, Tuck has no answers, Jacobs has no answers.* Nobody does.* The good ship Coughlin is rudderless.

Too bad when Mara promised "big changes" in 2009 we didn't get them.* We got the same result in 2010 and we're staring down the barrel of another repeat in 2011.

The three factors you listed are EXCUSES, one can look around the league and find examples that counteract each.* This team seems to have excuses every year.

Look at the 2010 Packers if you need an example of overcoming injuries.


I know what the records are and I am sure that will be taken into account at the end of the season.* I'm simply saying what posters say they are not willing to factor in, will be part of the decision making process by the people who actually get to make the decision.

You also may want to consider the loyalty factor.* This organization is very loyal to its permanent personnel (which excludes most players who are transient by nature).

As for the 2010 packers, I've not yet given up on the 2011 GIANTS as you and so many others seem to have.* I believe we can win the rest of the games on the schedule.


Great points about how football personnel decisions are REALLY made, and especially by the Giants organization.

To me, though, your last paragraph is most important--especially as response to zombie's inadvertently self-contradictory comment-- and reflects what so many here who have succumbed to the orgy of self-pity following an Eagles loss seem to have forgotten.

We are eerily similar this year to the 2010 Packers and where they were after 11 games (7-4). If we defeat the Saints (and I truly believe we can, and will), we--like the 2010 Packers--will be 7-4.

And, as most would agree (I think most would, but I could be mistaken), if we beat the Saints and become a 7-4 team, we will--once again-- be a very strong playoff contender if not division winner, with 2 games looming against the pretender Cowboys that could very likely be the determining games for the division.

Clearly, anything can happen from now on. But equally clearly, this mass seppuku that so many are indulging in after ONE poorly played game, really, is premature and way out of control.

And, sporadic defensive lapses during this season and the pathos of last week's game aside, this is not the 2009 Giants defense going down to the 2009 New Orleans Saints this Monday.

This is a Giants team with Eli playing at VERY close to the level of Brees this year.

And this is a Giants team facing a run defense that's as pathetic as the Giants run offense is.

We are at a tipping point for the Giants season this week. To have all this talk --right NOW--about "facts about why to bring in Cowher as HC" and why Reese should go, etc, etc, etc is crazy and silly talk.

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 06:44 PM
There is no comparison cowher built a team that has gone and won superbowls right after he left. If he was still there he would have 3 championships under his belt. Coughlin hasnt built nuthing here but gray hair and increase in sales for tynelol with his b.s coaching staff minus spags.Wow, you didn't give Coach Tomlin no credit. Yeah Cowher was a good coach for the Steelers and left a lot of good players behind but he's been retired for a while now and Pittsburg was just in the Superbowl this year. That team has a whole lot of new personel and they're still competitive.

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 06:46 PM
There is no comparison cowher built a team that has gone and won superbowls right after he left. If he was still there he would have 3 championships under his belt. Coughlin hasnt built nuthing here but gray hair and increase in sales for tynelol with his b.s coaching staff minus spags.Wow, you didn't give Coach Tomlin no credit. Yeah Cowher was a good coach for the Steelers and left a lot of good players behind but he's been retired for a while now and Pittsburg was just in the Superbowl this year. That team has a whole lot of new personel and they're still competitive.

Is Tomlin available???.........give him a blank check

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 06:46 PM
It is, Rosie.* This is end of the season talk run amok.* There are three factors John Mara and Jerry Reese are going to take into account that our learned poster friends won't:

There's one factor you won't take into account -- the repeated pattern of failure.

Late season meltdowns.* Inability to win big games.* Complete inability to fix problems.* No resiliency.* The team can beat anybody one week and then look like sleepwalking, heartless zombies the next.

Even more egregious, the window that was created in the afterglow of the 2007 Super Bowl victory is pretty much closed -- squandered.

I'm sure John Mara is thrilled with all the late season failures we've had under Coughlin and the fact that they keep on happening.* Even worse is how much both the coaches and the players just don't have answers -- not like they ever have when we've had these uninspired performances (go back to the 23-0 home playoff loss to the Panthers in 2005), but their bewilderment over it this year is heavily pronounced.* Coughlin has no answers, Tuck has no answers, Jacobs has no answers.* Nobody does.* The good ship Coughlin is rudderless.

Too bad when Mara promised "big changes" in 2009 we didn't get them.* We got the same result in 2010 and we're staring down the barrel of another repeat in 2011.

The three factors you listed are EXCUSES, one can look around the league and find examples that counteract each.* This team seems to have excuses every year.

Look at the 2010 Packers if you need an example of overcoming injuries.


I know what the records are and I am sure that will be taken into account at the end of the season.* I'm simply saying what posters say they are not willing to factor in, will be part of the decision making process by the people who actually get to make the decision.

You also may want to consider the loyalty factor.* This organization is very loyal to its permanent personnel (which excludes most players who are transient by nature).

As for the 2010 packers, I've not yet given up on the 2011 GIANTS as you and so many others seem to have.* I believe we can win the rest of the games on the schedule.


Great points about how football personnel decisions are REALLY made, and especially by the Giants organization.

To me, though, your last paragraph is most important--especially as response to zombie's inadvertently self-contradictory comment-- and reflects what so many here who have succumbed to the orgy of self-pity following an Eagles loss seem to have forgotten.

We are eerily similar this year to the 2010 Packers and where they were after 11 games (7-4). If we defeat the Saints (and I truly believe we can, and will), we--like the 2010 Packers--will be 7-4.

And, as most would agree (I think most would, but I could be mistaken), if we beat the Saints and become a 7-4 team, we will--once again-- be a very strong playoff contender if not division winner, with 2 games looming against the pretender Cowboys that could very likely be the determining games for the division.

Clearly, anything can happen from now on. But equally clearly, this mass seppuku that so many are indulging in after ONE poorly played game, really, is premature and way out of control.

And, sporadic defensive lapses during this season and the pathos of last week's game aside, this is not the 2009 Giants defense going down to the 2009 New Orleans Saints this Monday.

This is a Giants team with Eli playing at VERY close to the level of Brees this year.

And this is a Giants team facing a run defense that's as pathetic as the Giants run offense is.

We are at a tipping point for the Giants season this week. To have all this talk --right NOW--about "facts about why to bring in Cowher as HC" and why Reese should go, etc, etc, etc is crazy and silly talk.Long paragraph but I'm gonna give you a short answer by saying that The New York Giants need a new coach... plain and simple.

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 06:52 PM
There is no comparison cowher built a team that has gone and won superbowls right after he left. If he was still there he would have 3 championships under his belt. Coughlin hasnt built nuthing here but gray hair and increase in sales for tynelol with his b.s coaching staff minus spags.Wow, you didn't give Coach Tomlin no credit. Yeah Cowher was a good coach for the Steelers and left a lot of good players behind but he's been retired for a while now and Pittsburg was just in the Superbowl this year. That team has a whole lot of new personel and they're still competitive.

Is Tomlin available???.........give him a blank checkNo but the fact of the matter is that the Giants need to go FIND a coach. Somebody that the players will respond to and absolutely enjoy playing for. Screw a name like 420 said.

rebelfan1966
11-26-2011, 07:34 PM
I like Coughlin personally....

It just concerns me that we seem to not be able to maintain intensity throughout the entire season. It seems like we come out and play flat in some very important games...

That has to fall on the coaches shoulders.

gmen0820
11-26-2011, 07:37 PM
As long as our next coach can keep these guys motivated and playing hard in November and December, I don't care who it is.

Joe Morrison
11-26-2011, 07:47 PM
If the Giants win 10 games again there is no way they are bringing anyone in here.</P>


As for Cowher, I am not going to live long enough to wait around for him to win anything.</P>


Unless there is a complete collapse everyone stays again.</P>


If they can catch a break and cut the serious injuries in half next year they will be fine.</P>


You don't like the way TC looks during a game, but you want The Jaw drippling all over himself.</P>


I'll pass on that.</P>

Ruttiger711
11-26-2011, 09:17 PM
There is no comparison cowher built a team that has gone and won superbowls right after he left. If he was still there he would have 3 championships under his belt. Coughlin hasnt built nuthing here but gray hair and increase in sales for tynelol with his b.s coaching staff minus spags.Wow, you didn't give Coach Tomlin no credit. Yeah Cowher was a good coach for the Steelers and left a lot of good players behind but he's been retired for a while now and Pittsburg was just in the Superbowl this year. That team has a whole lot of new personel and they're still competitive.

I give Labeau more credit than Tomlin for the continued success of the team. He's a perfect example of a great DC does not equal a great head coach. The Spags/Messiah worship around here is a little ....strange.

jb500ex
11-26-2011, 09:24 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories.

I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC.

I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him.

im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a secondtomlin looks like a great coach from the outside but when the team of players he has now starts to leave the game he will be exposed. he makes more awful decisions then anyone. he is known as a coach who doesnt make in game adjustments. has some of the dumbest ideas around. in his second draft after having a terrible o-line made a brilliant statement at the draft after taking all skill guys that there are 2 ways to fix oline issues and one of them is to draft more skill guys. that right there is the absolute dumbest thing ever said by a head coach and no coincidence the steelers have had a terrible line every year since hes been the coach. then theres the infamous "unleash hell" comment in 09 right before losing 3 in the row to terrible teams such as the powerhouse cleveland browns and missing the playoffs. in 08 when he won the superbowl watch the 2md half of that game it was as poorly coached as you will find. he has several great winning players that make him look good but he will be out of the league not long after ben, hines, harrison, troy etc are gone. trust me coughlin is a exellent coach. the giants prob is they have to many headcase all about me dont want to deal with authority players. jacobs, osi etc he also had plax and shockey. these guys would be difficult under any coach how do you think they would be with parcells? they want a buddy not a coach

giantsfan420
11-26-2011, 09:29 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories.

I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC.

I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him.

im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a second

What has Spags done as a head coach in St. Louis that would make you think he'd be better than Coughlin?The only point in this post that I didn't agree with. I like Spags but so far, he has failed miserably as a HC.
yeah that is true. i guess the memory of spags and what he did with our defense when virtually the same roster the year before sucked grandpa ball sack played into me adding him.

but still, even tho i may have been quick to add him to that list, i still wanted spags to be our next HC bc he showed me at least he had earned it. i mean at the end of last year, spags for sure earned some merit as HC bc of how he turned the rams around with a rookie qb.

i'd still be for him being our next HC even with the Rams horrible year this year. thats just me tho, i can completely respect if others feel spags hasnt warranted enough to be entrusted with the team as HC

BurnerNYG
11-26-2011, 09:44 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories.

I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC.

I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him.

im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a secondtomlin looks like a great coach from the outside but when the team of players he has now starts to leave the game he will be exposed. he makes more awful decisions then anyone. he is known as a coach who doesnt make in game adjustments. has some of the dumbest ideas around. in his second draft after having a terrible o-line made a brilliant statement at the draft after taking all skill guys that there are 2 ways to fix oline issues and one of them is to draft more skill guys. that right there is the absolute dumbest thing ever said by a head coach and no coincidence the steelers have had a terrible line every year since hes been the coach. then theres the infamous "unleash hell" comment in 09 right before losing 3 in the row to terrible teams such as the powerhouse cleveland browns and missing the playoffs. in 08 when he won the superbowl watch the 2md half of that game it was as poorly coached as you will find. he has several great winning players that make him look good but he will be out of the league not long after ben, hines, harrison, troy etc are gone. trust me coughlin is a exellent coach. the giants prob is they have to many headcase all about me dont want to deal with authority players. jacobs, osi etc he also had plax and shockey. these guys would be difficult under any coach how do you think they would be with parcells? they want a buddy not a coachMan please go back to that cave you crawled out of. Who told you to come out? The Steelers just played in a Superbowl and they're heading back to the playoffs this year. Winning coaches don't lead a team by being dumb. Try again, maybe somebody dumb or slightly ******ed will listen to you.

Cowboys Fan From Asia
11-26-2011, 10:19 PM
In general, Super Bowl-winning coaches don't fare so well with another team.


Cowher to the Giants could easily end up being like Shanahan to the Redskins.

BParcells777
11-26-2011, 10:46 PM
In general, Super Bowl-winning coaches don't fare so well with another team.


Cowher to the Giants could easily end up being like Shanahan to the Redskins.


hmmmmm had Parcells not turned your team around you would still be the doormat of the league

he won two Super bowls

JMFP2
11-26-2011, 11:47 PM
In general, Super Bowl-winning coaches don't fare so well with another team.


Cowher to the Giants could easily end up being like Shanahan to the Redskins.
</P>


Very good point.</P>


Frankly, I don't understand why Cowher would be considered an upgrade over Coughlin.....Cowher was no stranger to the coaching hotseat during his tenure.</P>


In fact, he owes the Rooney's big time.....alot of teams would have fired Cowher long before he won his Super Bowl.</P>

I Bleed Blue 56
11-26-2011, 11:53 PM
There is no comparison cowher built a team that has gone and won superbowls right after he left. If he was still there he would have 3 championships under his belt. Coughlin hasnt built nuthing here but gray hair and increase in sales for tynelol with his b.s coaching staff minus spags.Wow, you didn't give Coach Tomlin no credit. Yeah Cowher was a good coach for the Steelers and left a lot of good players behind but he's been retired for a while now and Pittsburg was just in the Superbowl this year. That team has a whole lot of new personel and they're still competitive. Im just saying he was left with a championship quality team. We all know spags won us that superbowl. Im sorry but if we collapse again coughlin got to go.

Brandon jacobs
11-27-2011, 01:13 AM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team

GMENAGAIN
11-27-2011, 08:00 AM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team

Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!!

lawl
11-27-2011, 10:55 AM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team

Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!!

Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 11:25 AM
In general, Super Bowl-winning coaches don't fare so well with another team.


Cowher to the Giants could easily end up being like Shanahan to the Redskins.
</P>


Very good point.</P>


Frankly, I don't understand why Cowher would be considered an upgrade over Coughlin.....Cowher was no stranger to the coaching hotseat during his tenure.</P>


In fact, he owes the Rooney's big time.....alot of teams would have fired Cowher long before he won his Super Bowl.</P>

hmmmm............ why dont you compare Cowhers head coaching record to Coughlins before you stick your foot in your mouth

Cowher has coached in neary twice as many playoff games as Coughlin in the same amout of coaching years......a clear indication Coughlin misses the playoffs more or is one and done quite often

I'd rate Cowher better in X's and O's as he is more flexible and will adjust better during a game......

Motivationally its no contest- Cowher is the better motivator by a factor of 10

Besides he's 11 years younger, very experienced with punchem in the mouth football, and we need a change BAD.....every year Coughlin's teams fall off a cliff in Nov/Dec and if we make the playoffs he's one and done without Spags to boost him

midnite_nj
11-27-2011, 11:47 AM
In general, Super Bowl-winning coaches don't fare so well with another team.


Cowher to the Giants could easily end up being like Shanahan to the Redskins.
</P>


Very good point.</P>


Frankly, I don't understand why Cowher would be considered an upgrade over Coughlin.....Cowher was no stranger to the coaching hotseat during his tenure.</P>


In fact, he owes the Rooney's big time.....alot of teams would have fired Cowher long before he won his Super Bowl.</P> hmmmm............ why dont you compare Cowhers head coaching record to Coughlins before you stick yourr foot in your mouth Cowher has coached in neary twice as many playoff games as Coughlin in the same amout of coaching years......a clear indication Coughlin misses the playoffs more or is one and done quite often I'd rate Cowher better in X's and O's as he is more flexible and will adjust better during a game...... Motivationally its no contest- Cowher is the better motivator by a factor of 10 Besides he's 11 years younger, very experienced with punchem in the mouth football, and we need a change BAD.....every year Coughlins teams fall off a cliff in Nov/Dec and if we make the playoffs he's one and done without Spags to boost himAgreed 100%. If we miss playoffs, Coughlin has to go. I like him as a head coach also but when things are going wrong in Giants land, they really start downward spiraling in a hurry. We will find out what kind of coaches and players we "REALLY HAVE" on this team, come monday nite in N.O. Are we gonna fight back and take the division crown or are we gonna bend over and take it in the rear the rest of the season. If we lose this game, all of confidence, swagger, and life will be stripped for the rest of the season. STAND UP AND FIGHT. Lets go BIG BLUE !!!!

Tony Bruno
11-27-2011, 11:54 AM
We are not getting BC face the facts..

Plus it isnt that impressive to me to win a SB after coaching the same team for 14 years...

We need a younger HC, different OC and ST coach...

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 11:59 AM
I'm facing the facts.....the Giants never hire young inexperienced Head Coaches.....they tried it with Fassel and it ended badly

Parcells was young but was promoted

I do not see Fewell or Gillbride being promoted and they are not young anyway

Who would you bring in over Cowher? Billick?
I'd take Billick but its Cowher that has been campaigning for the job a long time according to the Bus........does Billlick want to come here or does Spags want to return?

Tony Bruno
11-27-2011, 12:00 PM
I'm facing the facts.....the Giants never hire young inexperienced Head Coaches.....they tried it with Fassel and it ended badly

Parcells was young but was promoted

I do not see Fewell or Gillbride being promoted and they are not young anyway

Who would you bring in over Cowher? Billick?

Neither... The game has passed both of them...

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 12:26 PM
thats actually laughable

has it passed Parcells too?

In other words you want someones asst coach or a college Head Coach

you're rooting for the wrong team......They should re-name this team the NY Ol' School Giants

What your not factoring the tight inter marriage relationship of the Giants Mara and Rooney families.....Cowher if approved by the Rooney's will be our next HC..........Cowher represents the same ol school smash mouth football that is worshiped in East Rutherford NJ

If the Giants need to smash a bit they should be lining up Bear Pascoe at FB/RB and running him not Jacobs

bansaw
11-27-2011, 12:58 PM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team

Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!!

Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 01:04 PM
true which is why when I originally compared the two I did not factor in Coughlins 1st stint

Maybe Tom should take over Miami as HC and GM and rejuvinate them next year.......he lives in Jacksonville just up RT 95.....I'd love to see that senario play out and would root for him

Roswell777
11-27-2011, 01:08 PM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team

Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!!

Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over



Exactly. A few years have to be taken off Coughlin's totals if you are going to use that as a comparison.

You guys who hop onto a ledge every time the Giants have a bad week should know better. This team always plays down, or up, to its level of competition. Not all of that is on the coach.

Considering how many key injuries the Giants have experienced I think Coughlin has done a pretty good job this year.

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 01:15 PM
pretty good is for losers

Roswell777
11-27-2011, 01:18 PM
pretty good is for losers

Last time I checked, they are 6 - 4. It must be windy and cold on that ledge.

Wear a scarf.

bansaw
11-27-2011, 01:20 PM
pretty good is for losersif anyone can comment on what it takes to be a loser its you

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 01:26 PM
pretty good is for losersif anyone can comment on what it takes to be a loser its you



And what do you know about me to make that statement...I'm all about crushing the enemy.....not winning by a FG

Roswell777
11-27-2011, 01:31 PM
pretty good is for losersif anyone can comment on what it takes to be a loser its you



And what do you know about me to make that statement...I'm all about crushing the enemy.....not winning by a FG

At this point you are demonstrating a lack of football knowledge. I'm sure you know more than you are currently demonstrating.

Did you also have a problem with the Giants winning the SB in 2007 because they won a close game?

What are you talking about?

NYfanatic
11-27-2011, 01:36 PM
Ill take a assistant from the packers. Tom clements is a possibility over their maybe better as our O cord.
But we need some young gun.

JMFP2
11-27-2011, 01:51 PM
In general, Super Bowl-winning coaches don't fare so well with another team.


Cowher to the Giants could easily end up being like Shanahan to the Redskins.
</P>


Very good point.</P>


Frankly, I don't understand why Cowher would be considered an upgrade over Coughlin.....Cowher was no stranger to the coaching hotseat during his tenure.</P>


In fact, he owes the Rooney's big time.....alot of teams would have fired Cowher long before he won his Super Bowl.</P>


hmmmm............ why dont you compare Cowhers head coaching record to Coughlins before you stick your foot in your mouth Cowher has coached in neary twice as many playoff games as Coughlin in the same amout of coaching years......a clear indication Coughlin misses the playoffs more or is one and done quite often I'd rate Cowher better in X's and O's as he is more flexible and will adjust better during a game...... Motivationally its no contest- Cowher is the better motivator by a factor of 10 Besides he's 11 years younger, very experienced with punchem in the mouth football, and we need a change BAD.....every year Coughlin's teams fall off a cliff in Nov/Dec and if we make the playoffs he's one and done without Spags to boost him</P>


My mistake....I didn't realize the Steelers were an expansion team.</P>

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 02:38 PM
The Steelers, the Steelers..........remind me again why I should give a hoot about the Steelers???

I'm a Giants fan who is sick of mediocre performance, and no ingenuity by our coaching staff......we have talent...its not used properly

Why don't you go root for the Steelers....they play much better than us year in and year out.....a heratige left by Mr Cowher who you dismiss as old and out of touch....they play with passion, really that's all you can ask of your team......some passion, and pride......not a team who gets undressed in their own building time and time again, and lets their QB get clocked after the whistle and passively looks on

take a look at the Patriots....they defend their turf......one loss by their All World QB at home since 2002

yoeddy
11-27-2011, 03:13 PM
The Steelers, the Steelers..........remind me again why I should give a hoot about the Steelers???

I'm a Giants fan who is sick of mediocre performance, and no ingenuity by our coaching staff......we have talent...its not used properly

Why don't you go root for the Steelers....they play much better than us year in and year out.....a heratige left by Mr Cowher who you dismiss as old and out of touch....they play with passion, really that's all you can ask of your team......some passion, and pride......not a team who gets undressed in their own building time and time again, and lets their QB get clocked after the whistle and passively looks on

take a look at the Patriots....they defend their turf......one loss by their All World QB at home since 2002

How did you feel about Cowher going 8-8 and missing the playoffs after winning the Super Bowl...

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 03:52 PM
could have cared less.......no one does well after winning a Super Bowl......Giants, PATs, Pittsburg, Packers (they will bomb too- just watch).......nobody repeats like the old Steelers did....BTW Cowhers winning percentage at Pittsburg was quite a bit better than Chuck Knolls

yoeddy
11-27-2011, 04:24 PM
could have cared less.......no one does well after winning a Super Bowl......Giants, PATs, Pittsburg, Packers (they will bomb too- just watch).......nobody repeats like the old Steelers did....BTW Cowhers winning percentage at Pittsburg was quite a bit better than Chuck Knolls

Chuck Knoll did great after Super Bowls. Tom Coughlin took the team to a NFC best regular season record after the Super Bowl. And Cowher benefitted for years of playing in a weak division...his only real competition coming from Tom Coughln's expansion Jags....

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 04:31 PM
could have cared less.......no one does well after winning a Super Bowl......Giants, PATs, Pittsburg, Packers (they will bomb too- just watch).......nobody repeats like the old Steelers did....BTW Cowhers winning percentage at Pittsburg was quite a bit better than Chuck Knolls

Chuck Knoll did great after Super Bowls. Tom Coughlin took the team to a NFC best regular season record after the Super Bowl. And Cowher benefitted for years of playing in a weak division...his only real competition coming from Tom Coughln's expansion Jags....

LOL Did Cowher insult you or something??.....I don't get all the hate

Tom's going going.......................GONE

The end is near

yoeddy
11-27-2011, 04:35 PM
could have cared less.......no one does well after winning a Super Bowl......Giants, PATs, Pittsburg, Packers (they will bomb too- just watch).......nobody repeats like the old Steelers did....BTW Cowhers winning percentage at Pittsburg was quite a bit better than Chuck Knolls

Chuck Knoll did great after Super Bowls. Tom Coughlin took the team to a NFC best regular season record after the Super Bowl. And Cowher benefitted for years of playing in a weak division...his only real competition coming from Tom Coughln's expansion Jags....

LOL Did Cowher insult you or something??.....I don't get all the hate

Tom's going going.......................GONE

The end is near

I don't hate Cowher....I just don't understand why anyone thinks he's such an upgrade over Coughlin. I can certainly understand the desire for a coach who is known as an innovator....a guy like Sean Peyton or someone like that. But Cowher doesn't seem like he would being anything that Coughlin doesn't already bring....

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 04:43 PM
Its not that Toms not a good coach....He cannot get the team to play hard for him......hes a bit old and has a tough time relating to people.......crusty ol codger

BurnerNYG
11-27-2011, 04:47 PM
The Giants need a new coach. We don't need Cowher, we don't need Gruden, we don't need Billick... we need a new young hungry coach that's not scared to take chances, incorporate trick plays in the playbook or start rookies from day one.

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 04:50 PM
do you have a name?

lawl
11-27-2011, 06:51 PM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team

Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!!

Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over



Prior to cowher coming to pittsburgh, they had missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.

yoeddy
11-27-2011, 07:34 PM
Its not that Toms not a good coach....He cannot get the team to play hard for him......hes a bit old and has a tough time relating to people.......crusty ol codger

Given all the injuries heading into the season, plus all the injuries the team has sustained during the season, the fact that the team is contending for the division lead is a testament to great coaching.

jb500ex
11-27-2011, 07:48 PM
whoever is the next HC whenever thay may be, i hope its along the lines of the recent HC success stories.

I follow football and knew of the Harbaugh's and Tomlin, but never would have said before there success I thought for sure they'd make excellent HC.

I hope whoever, whenever; its along the lines of those guys bc they have there teams motivated and are very football intelligent. Wouldnt be opposed to Cowher either, but I'd hope the FO would really study the situation and chose the best man for the job, not the best name. Cowher is the best name for the job by far, if he's the best man for it; hire him.

im a big fan of coughlin, but i'd honestly swap HC with SF, Baltimore, Pitt, GB, NO, St. Luis, in a secondtomlin looks like a great coach from the outside but when the team of players he has now starts to leave the game he will be exposed. he makes more awful decisions then anyone. he is known as a coach who doesnt make in game adjustments. has some of the dumbest ideas around. in his second draft after having a terrible o-line made a brilliant statement at the draft after taking all skill guys that there are 2 ways to fix oline issues and one of them is to draft more skill guys. that right there is the absolute dumbest thing ever said by a head coach and no coincidence the steelers have had a terrible line every year since hes been the coach. then theres the infamous "unleash hell" comment in 09 right before losing 3 in the row to terrible teams such as the powerhouse cleveland browns and missing the playoffs. in 08 when he won the superbowl watch the 2md half of that game it was as poorly coached as you will find. he has several great winning players that make him look good but he will be out of the league not long after ben, hines, harrison, troy etc are gone. trust me coughlin is a exellent coach. the giants prob is they have to many headcase all about me dont want to deal with authority players. jacobs, osi etc he also had plax and shockey. these guys would be difficult under any coach how do you think they would be with parcells? they want a buddy not a coachMan please go back to that cave you crawled out of. Who told you to come out? The Steelers just played in a Superbowl and they're heading back to the playoffs this year. Winning coaches don't lead a team by being dumb. Try again, maybe somebody dumb or slightly ******ed will listen to you.so your denying this as fact. well congrats on you coming out of your hole. barry switzer and brian billick say hi

BetterthenU
11-27-2011, 08:09 PM
Bill Cowher:
Games over .500: 59

Super Bowl Wins: 1

Overall Championships: 1

Conference Championships: 2

Division Championships: 9

Tom Coughlin:
Games over .500: 28

Super Bowl Wins: 1

Overall Championships: 1

Conference Championships: 1

Division Championships: 6


Cowher is 12-9 in the playoffs, Coughlin is 8-7....I dont see the upgrade...and these are the real stats, not the stats the OP put up.

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 08:16 PM
Bill Cowher:
Games over .500: 59

Super Bowl Wins: 1

Overall Championships: 1

Conference Championships: 2

Division Championships: 9

Tom Coughlin:
Games over .500: 28

Super Bowl Wins: 1

Overall Championships: 1

Conference Championships: 1

Division Championships: 6


Cowher is 12-9 in the playoffs, Coughlin is 8-7....I dont see the upgrade...and these are the real stats, not the stats the OP put up.


I only used Tom's stats with us and Bill's with Pittsburg....

ITs not a huge upgrade......Tom is not a terrible coach....he's a good guy and deserves to go out with dignity.

Its just time, time for change.....we are backsliding every year in the 2nd half of the year.....the team seems to lack backbone down the stretch....its not injuries, its a passive attitude

We need to bring some fresh air into play.....Cowher's been very successful, he's a sure bet. I don't think anyone would stand for a re-building Giants team.

Tom is marching in place......its just not good enough.......good.....not good enough

I hope Tom wins the SB this year and takes a job with Miami as VP of Football Operations

BetterthenU
11-27-2011, 08:23 PM
I hear what you are saying, but I dont know that Cowher is the answer, especially over TC. I think TC's worst enemy is himself. Loyal guy, too loyal...and seemingly too old school. But Cowher is old school too, so not sure guys would respond to him any better. This team, if TC is fired, needs a defensive minded coach. I feel a semi competent OC can get this team going because of Eli. Look at the Pats, Belicheck has had plenty of OC's and similar results because of Brady. He runs the D...sometimes he doesnt even watch the offense!

JMFP2
11-27-2011, 08:30 PM
Our teamcurrently has a winning record, and are in the middle of the playoff hunt. In fact, they are in control of their playoff chances right now.</P>


You'd think this is the Eagles Message board.</P>

JMFP2
11-27-2011, 08:31 PM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team
Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!! Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over

Prior to cowher coming to pittsburgh, they had missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.</P>


Pittsburgh was noteven remotely close to an expansion team.</P>

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 08:45 PM
Our team*currently has a winning record, and are in the middle of the playoff hunt.* In fact, they are in control of their playoff chances right now.</P>


You'd think this is the Eagles Message board.</P>

I hear what you are saying but for all his reputation Tom does not get the players ear anymore.....hes slowed a bit.....he preaches discipline but the team is often sloppy on the field

we who follow the team closely know despite our being in the hunt, something is not right

lawl
11-27-2011, 08:52 PM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team
Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!! Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over

Prior to cowher coming to pittsburgh, they had missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.</P>


Pittsburgh was noteven remotely close to an expansion team.</P>


</P>


of course not, but they weren't in the greatest of shape either.</P>


Coughlin went to the championship game the 2nd year of existence(the same year the Panthers did as well) So it's not like the expansion teams of that time were devoid of talent.</P>


The point is, it's a relevant comparison.</P>

BurnerNYG
11-27-2011, 09:00 PM
do you have a name?I want Denver's defensive coordinator to be our head coach. He sure is helping make Tebow look good.

yoeddy
11-27-2011, 09:03 PM
Our team*currently has a winning record, and are in the middle of the playoff hunt.* In fact, they are in control of their playoff chances right now.</P>


You'd think this is the Eagles Message board.</P>

I hear what you are saying but for all his reputation Tom does not get the players ear anymore.....hes slowed a bit.....he preaches discipline but the team is often sloppy on the field

we who follow the team closely know despite our being in the hunt, something is not right

Please don't speak for me. I follow the team extremely closely and realize that our coaches have done a very good job with a roster that has been decimated with injuries.

GMENAGAIN
11-27-2011, 09:04 PM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team
Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!! Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over

Prior to cowher coming to pittsburgh, they had missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.</P>


Pittsburgh was not*even remotely close to an expansion team.</P>


</P>


of course not, but they weren't in the greatest of shape either.</P>


Coughlin went to the championship game the 2nd year of existence(the same year the Panthers did as well) So it's not like the expansion teams of that time were devoid of talent.</P>


The point is, it's a relevant comparison.</P>

Are you trying to prove how similar Cowher is to the guy you want to him to replace????

LOL . . . if Cowher had coached here you guys would have run im out of town 10 years before he won a Championship.

BParcells777
11-27-2011, 09:25 PM
Our team*currently has a winning record, and are in the middle of the playoff hunt.* In fact, they are in control of their playoff chances right now.</P>


You'd think this is the Eagles Message board.</P>

I hear what you are saying but for all his reputation Tom does not get the players ear anymore.....hes slowed a bit.....he preaches discipline but the team is often sloppy on the field

we who follow the team closely know despite our being in the hunt, something is not right

Please don't speak for me. I follow the team extremely closely and realize that our coaches have done a very good job with a roster that has been decimated with injuries.

To whom it may concern- I do not presume to speak for Yeody

lawl
11-27-2011, 09:47 PM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team
Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!! Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over

Prior to cowher coming to pittsburgh, they had missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.</P>


Pittsburgh was noteven remotely close to an expansion team.</P>


</P>


of course not, but they weren't in the greatest of shape either.</P>


Coughlin went to the championship game the 2nd year of existence(the same year the Panthers did as well) So it's not like the expansion teams of that time were devoid of talent.</P>


The point is, it's a relevant comparison.</P>


Are you trying to prove how similar Cowher is to the guy you want to him to replace???? LOL . . . if Cowher had coached here you guys would have run im out of town 10 years before he won a Championship.</P>


Never said I wanted Cowher.</P>


He'd be bringing a 3-4 with him, too much turnover for my taste.</P>


</P>

lawl
11-27-2011, 09:47 PM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team
Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!! Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over

Prior to cowher coming to pittsburgh, they had missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.</P>


Pittsburgh was noteven remotely close to an expansion team.</P>


</P>


of course not, but they weren't in the greatest of shape either.</P>


Coughlin went to the championship game the 2nd year of existence(the same year the Panthers did as well) So it's not like the expansion teams of that time were devoid of talent.</P>


The point is, it's a relevant comparison.</P>


Are you trying to prove how similar Cowher is to the guy you want to him to replace???? LOL . . . if Cowher had coached here you guys would have run im out of town 10 years before he won a Championship.</P>


Never said I wanted Cowher.</P>


He'd be bringing a 3-4 with him, too much turnover for my taste.</P>


</P>

BurnerNYG
11-28-2011, 01:10 AM
Dennis Allen for HC.

GMENAGAIN
11-28-2011, 08:45 AM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team
Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!! Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over

Prior to cowher coming to pittsburgh, they had missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.</P>


Pittsburgh was not*even remotely close to an expansion team.</P>


</P>


of course not, but they weren't in the greatest of shape either.</P>


Coughlin went to the championship game the 2nd year of existence(the same year the Panthers did as well) So it's not like the expansion teams of that time were devoid of talent.</P>


The point is, it's a relevant comparison.</P>


Are you trying to prove how similar Cowher is to the guy you want to him to replace???? LOL . . . if Cowher had coached here you guys would have run im out of town 10 years before he won a Championship.</P>


Never said I wanted Cowher.</P>


He'd be bringing a 3-4 with him, too much turnover for my taste.</P>


*</P>

How very slipknottin of you . . . . .

Husky
11-28-2011, 08:59 AM
Give it a rest

If Coughlin had Cowers Teams he would have done better!

JimC
11-28-2011, 09:12 AM
Cowher would do a fine job coaching this team of halfhearted players. he'd clean house and build a great team
Yep, and he'll get us one championship in the next 15 years (due to a blown call) . . . . . Yeehaw!!!! Combining his stint in jax, Coughlin is on the same pace.pretty sure the Steelers werent an expansion team when he took over

Prior to cowher coming to pittsburgh, they had missed the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.</p>


Pittsburgh was noteven remotely close to an expansion team.</p>


</p>


of course not, but they weren't in the greatest of shape either.</p>


Coughlin went to the championship game the 2nd year of existence(the same year the Panthers did as well) So it's not like the expansion teams of that time were devoid of talent.</p>


The point is, it's a relevant comparison.</p>

Are you trying to prove how similar Cowher is to the guy you want to him to replace????

LOL . . . if Cowher had coached here you guys would have run im out of town 10 years before he won a Championship.

I believe he was close to being run out of Pittsburgh before he won the super bowl.

bigblue58
11-28-2011, 09:12 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark

While its true Cowher only has 1 SB Victory...........
He has 21 playoffs games in 14 yrs while Tom only has 7 in 7 Yrs..........a huge diffference......Tom does not get it done in December

Cowher's 1 SB victory is significant to the argument because his Steeler teams had twice the talent to work with than Coughlin EVER had!

gumby742
11-28-2011, 09:45 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>

BParcells777
11-28-2011, 09:51 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter...........

Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9
14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory
Born 1957..............

Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3
7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory
Born 1946................

Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3
7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941

Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3
in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin

If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark

While its true Cowher only has 1 SB Victory...........
He has 21 playoffs games in 14 yrs while Tom only has 7 in 7 Yrs..........a huge diffference......Tom does not get it done in December

Cowher's 1 SB victory is significant to the argument because his Steeler teams had twice the talent to work with than Coughlin EVER had!

Twice the talent.......really?

WOW I believe in the 6 degrees of seperation theory for NFL teams.......the Steeelers must be fielding a team of All Pros every year

Think you might be exagerating a bit?

also during their stays with the Giants and Pittsburg, percentage wise Cowher with his All Pro teams mind you was in many more playoff games than Coughlin, and advanced quite a bit more.......

didn't Cowher win his Super Bowl with a Wild Card team who only came on at 3/4 of the season, and was trailing in almost ever 4th Qtr on that run.....where was all that talent to put him in that position?

JesseJames
11-28-2011, 10:34 AM
I don't know if Cowher is the answer for us but I've come to the conclusion that Coughlin isn't, I just can't see anything different for us as long as he stays because the pattern has already formed for these late season collapses.. and we're right in the middle of another one.

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 10:37 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 10:38 AM
didn't Cowher win his Super Bowl with a Wild Card team who only came on at 3/4 of the season, and was trailing in almost ever 4th Qtr on that run.....where was all that talent to put him in that position?

Sounds a lot like Coughlin...

BParcells777
11-28-2011, 10:40 AM
didn't Cowher win his Super Bowl with a Wild Card team who only came on at 3/4 of the season, and was trailing in almost ever 4th Qtr on that run.....where was all that talent to put him in that position?

Sounds a lot like Coughlin...

Yeody are you Tom's mom or brother?.......we get it.....you want to ride Tom into his 80's and be rolled out in a wheelchair like they did with George Halas....understood.....to you Tom is on a lifetime contract, got it

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 10:54 AM
didn't Cowher win his Super Bowl with a Wild Card team who only came on at 3/4 of the season, and was trailing in almost ever 4th Qtr on that run.....where was all that talent to put him in that position?

Sounds a lot like Coughlin...

Yeody are you Tom's mom or brother?.......we get it.....you want to ride Tom into his 80's and be rolled out in a wheelchair like they did with George Halas....understood.....to you Tom is on a lifetime contract, got it

Are you Cowher's mom or brother? We get it...you want to bring in Cowher and have him jump and shout and scowl to motivate the players so much that they demand to be taken off of IR and play every game. To you, Cowher is the ultimate motivator who should have won Super Bowls every year he coached in Pittsburgh. Got it.

BParcells777
11-28-2011, 11:08 AM
LOL Touche

We'll see how this unfolds

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 11:25 AM
LOL Touche

We'll see how this unfolds

Fwiw, here's my position...I like Tom Coughlin and have been a supporter since 2003. I think he does a great job with the team. That said, if we go 3 seasons missing the playoffs, then I am open to the idea of finding someone new...but that whoever we find has a clearly-defined improvement over Tom. I don't believe that Cowher is that guy. If we go in another direction, I'd like to see someone in the mold of a Sean Peyton...

GMENAGAIN
11-28-2011, 01:07 PM
LOL Touche

We'll see how this unfolds

Fwiw, here's my position...I like Tom Coughlin and have been a supporter since 2003. I think he does a great job with the team. That said, if we go 3 seasons missing the playoffs, then I am open to the idea of finding someone new...but that whoever we find has a clearly-defined improvement over Tom. I don't believe that Cowher is that guy. If we go in another direction, I'd like to see someone in the mold of a Sean Peyton...
If we change coaches, I'd want to see a defensive- minded guy myself . . . .

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 01:45 PM
LOL Touche

We'll see how this unfolds

Fwiw, here's my position...I like Tom Coughlin and have been a supporter since 2003. I think he does a great job with the team. That said, if we go 3 seasons missing the playoffs, then I am open to the idea of finding someone new...but that whoever we find has a clearly-defined improvement over Tom. I don't believe that Cowher is that guy. If we go in another direction, I'd like to see someone in the mold of a Sean Peyton...
If we change coaches, I'd want to see a defensive- minded guy myself . . . .

As long as the coordinators are good, I don't care if the HC is offensive or defensive minded...

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 01:57 PM
LOL Touche

We'll see how this unfolds

Fwiw, here's my position...I like Tom Coughlin and have been a supporter since 2003. I think he does a great job with the team. That said, if we go 3 seasons missing the playoffs, then I am open to the idea of finding someone new...but that whoever we find has a clearly-defined improvement over Tom. I don't believe that Cowher is that guy. If we go in another direction, I'd like to see someone in the mold of a Sean Peyton...
If we change coaches, I'd want to see a defensive- minded guy myself . . . .

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/gallery_images/photos/000/253/054/GYI0059199001_crop_450x500.jpg?1262102169

BParcells777
11-28-2011, 02:00 PM
I'm with you on that

I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach

I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter

Don't ask me why but I have done a 180
also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 02:14 PM
I'm with you on that

I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach

I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter

Don't ask me why but I have done a 180
also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense

repeatchamps
11-28-2011, 02:21 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
</P>


Same here. I do think Cowher had a 4-3 defense with Pittsburgh a few years here and there.</P>

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 02:26 PM
I'm with you on that

I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach

I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter

Don't ask me why but I have done a 180
also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense


Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?

repeatchamps
11-28-2011, 02:33 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</P>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent within the 4-3 look. The right 4-3 scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 02:48 PM
I'm with you on that

I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach

I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter

Don't ask me why but I have done a 180
also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense


Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?

a bit of both

I do fundamentally prefer the 4-3 oppose to the 3-4, but I also do not think that the transition would be easy as some would make it seem with our current personnel.

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 02:52 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</p>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</p>

You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.

Roswell777
11-28-2011, 02:54 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass. We weren't that deep and had bad injuries

Morehead State
11-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.


</P>


He said he could prevent injuries where Fassell could not. He said it was "correctable". </P>


He failed.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:00 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.


</p>


He said he could prevent injuries where Fassell could not. He said it was "correctable". </p>


He failed.</p>

him being wrong about that isn't exactly a major point as to why he should be gone. The truth is he had a theory about the soft camps Fassell had as to why these guys weren't in game shape and got injured. Turns out it wasn't a correct theory.

Mind you, we both pretty much agree about TC's status, but this is not a valid talking point

repeatchamps
11-28-2011, 03:02 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</P>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</P>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</P>


I as always agree with you completely. Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great at getting to the QB and his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</P>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</P>

BigBlue2010
11-28-2011, 03:05 PM
To me, the Coaching staff has to be evaluated against the goal of "Getting back to Giants Football". We are currently a team that rushes three on third/log and is nearly last in rushing. Everybody hates Gilbride because of his playcalling or the concepts behind his offense but I believe this years rushing numbers will be his downfall.

GMENAGAIN
11-28-2011, 03:05 PM
I don't know why you guys are wasting your time talking about Cowher and Gruden.</P>


If TC is fired, our next coach will be Andy Reid. </P>

Morehead State
11-28-2011, 03:06 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.


</P>


He said he could prevent injuries where Fassell could not. He said it was "correctable". </P>


He failed.</P>




him being wrong about that isn't exactly a major point as to why he should be gone. The truth is he had a theory about the soft camps Fassell had as to why these guys weren't in game shape and got injured. Turns out it wasn't a correct theory.

Mind you, we both pretty much agree about TC's status, but this is not a valid talking point
</P>


Its a fun point to make. He himself dismissed the "injury excuse". We can't use it for him now.</P>


He's a good coach but his time is done here. He's a "disciplinarian" of a team that has never played with discipline while he was coach. He a coach that supposedly reenforces smart play on the field and his teams have made more dumb mistakes that any other in the league.</P>


His players hate him and have quit on him for 3 years running. Its not unreasonable for us not to expect it again.</P>

Morehead State
11-28-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</P>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</P>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</P>


I as always agree with you completely. Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great against the pass adn his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</P>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</P>


</P>


The very decision to hire Perry Fewell was a rejection of the "stop the run" philosophy. Fewell had a history of coaching defenses that were good against the pass and horrible against the run.</P>


It was his defense that we tore up for 300+ yards on the ground in 07.</P>

Jiffy Jeff
11-28-2011, 03:09 PM
"pettigree"



Didn't he used to be an offensive lineman for us???

repeatchamps
11-28-2011, 03:12 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</P>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</P>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</P>


I as always agree with you completely. Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great against the pass adn his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</P>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</P>


</P>


The very decision to hire Perry Fewell was a rejection of the "stop the run" philosophy. Fewell had a history of coaching defenses that were good against the pass and horrible against the run.</P>


It was his defense that we tore up for 300+ yards on the ground in 07.</P>


</P>


Agreed. However that doesn't mean we should switch to a 3-4 and hope we find another Reasons, Carson and Johnson because that ain't happening. They need to retain a 4-3 and get a 4-3 scheme that fits this personnel better.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:14 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</p>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</p>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</p>


I as always agree with you completely. Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great at getting to the QB and his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</p>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</p>

yea but to me it seems like u can stick any 4-3 MLB in as an ILB and people have told me thats wrong.

I mean two examples come to mind: first is a guy we're going to see tonight is Jonathan Vilma. With the Jets he was a dominant 4-3 MLB, then they made the switch to 3-4 and he was awful. When he left there and went to NO, back to a 4-3 he seemed to regain form.

But then a guy like Zach Thomas who was a 4-3 life, was able to transition nicely to the 3-4 ILB. Or even a guy like Keith Brooking bounced back and forth. I've never really talked it out with anybody that has a general understanding of the 3-4 but I haven't really understand what the differences are just watching on my own

But eithe rway, I generally feel like 3-4 are typically slower defenses that bring more pop. I also just in general don't like the idea of that with the way the NFL is today

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:16 PM
To me, the Coaching staff has to be evaluated against the goal of "Getting back to Giants Football". We are currently a team that rushes three on third/log and is nearly last in rushing. Everybody hates Gilbride because of his playcalling or the concepts behind his offense but I believe this years rushing numbers will be his downfall.


I couldn't agree more about the defense. We don't play physical enough. It all stems from a lack of man/press coverage and blitzes.

Can't kill Gilbride for the lines performance this year. Even with the transitions we've had, the regression thats happened there is just unbelievable. We literally have one of the worst overall lines in the league - by far.

Eli is running for his life and our backs have no holes

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:17 PM
I don't know why you guys are wasting your time talking about Cowher and Gruden.</p>


If TC is fired, our next coach will be Andy Reid. </p>

lol i know u dont mean that

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:18 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.


</p>


He said he could prevent injuries where Fassell could not. He said it was "correctable". </p>


He failed.</p>




him being wrong about that isn't exactly a major point as to why he should be gone. The truth is he had a theory about the soft camps Fassell had as to why these guys weren't in game shape and got injured. Turns out it wasn't a correct theory.

Mind you, we both pretty much agree about TC's status, but this is not a valid talking point
</p>


Its a fun point to make. He himself dismissed the "injury excuse". We can't use it for him now.</p>


He's a good coach but his time is done here. He's a "disciplinarian" of a team that has never played with discipline while he was coach. He a coach that supposedly reenforces smart play on the field and his teams have made more dumb mistakes that any other in the league.</p>


His players hate him and have quit on him for 3 years running. Its not unreasonable for us not to expect it again.</p>

hahaha well im not saying that ur original point isn't good so that I can give TC the injury excuse, because except for 09 I really don't think he has an injury excuse. Regardless of who isn't on the field, I feel like the talent that is one the field is under performing

bigblue4417
11-28-2011, 03:18 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</p>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</p>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</p>


I as always agree with you completely. <font color="#0000FF">Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory</font> of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great at getting to the QB and his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</p>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</p>
Did it hurt? lol j/k

Seems like they have been dying to get back there ever since. Briggs would have been nice to get a few years back.

repeatchamps
11-28-2011, 03:21 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</P>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</P>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</P>


I as always agree with you completely. Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great at getting to the QB and his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</P>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</P>




yea but to me it seems like u can stick any 4-3 MLB in as an ILB and people have told me thats wrong.

I mean two examples come to mind: first is a guy we're going to see tonight is Jonathan Vilma. With the Jets he was a dominant 4-3 MLB, then they made the switch to 3-4 and he was awful. When he left there and went to NO, back to a 4-3 he seemed to regain form.

But then a guy like Zach Thomas who was a 4-3 life, was able to transition nicely to the 3-4 ILB. Or even a guy like Keith Brooking bounced back and forth. I've never really talked it out with anybody that has a general understanding of the 3-4 but I haven't really understand what the differences are just watching on my own

But eithe rway, I generally feel like 3-4 are typically slower defenses that bring more pop. I also just in general don't like the idea of that with the way the NFL is today
</P>


Some guys are versatile enough to play both. As far as 3-4 being more pop than speed, I tend to agree. Other than Taylor and Banks none of the other LB'ers were very fast and would fair poorly in today's NFL with the exception of maybe Pepper but he still was not ever a speed demon really. Also, he slowed down later on in his career. After his stint in Cleveland he was unrecognizable in Detroit and thenwith the Jets.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:22 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</p>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</p>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</p>


I as always agree with you completely. Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great against the pass adn his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</p>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</p>


</p>


The very decision to hire Perry Fewell was a rejection of the "stop the run" philosophy. Fewell had a history of coaching defenses that were good against the pass and horrible against the run.</p>


It was his defense that we tore up for 300+ yards on the ground in 07.</p>

well that I disagree with because I think he was brought in just to focus on the pass defense more because its been more of a gaping hole than anything for us. We were still top 7 vs the run last year and I think alot of what us giving up the run has meant this year really was part of the game plan. I mean just going to the Eagles1 game we gave them the run while focusing on the pass and eagles2 we pretty much stopped the run if not for a garbage tim 80 yarder with 20 seconds to go.

I think when we went with fewell we committed to having a secondary guy lead our defense and we rejected playing "Aggressive". Too much zone and not enough man press

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:24 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</p>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</p>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</p>


I as always agree with you completely. <font color="#0000FF">Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory</font> of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great at getting to the QB and his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</p>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</p>
Did it hurt? lol j/k

Seems like they have been dying to get back there ever since. Briggs would have been nice to get a few years back.


in theory it would of been but honestly for the price we would of been completely ****ED against the cap and it would of meant the end of somebody else. Or maybe even two players

GMENAGAIN
11-28-2011, 03:24 PM
I don't know why you guys are wasting your time talking about Cowher and Gruden.</P>


If TC is fired, our next coach will be Andy Reid. </P>




lol i know u dont mean that
</P>


ha ha . . . . I'm bored and just looking rattle some cages!</P>

Morehead State
11-28-2011, 03:26 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</P>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</P>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</P>


I as always agree with you completely. Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great against the pass adn his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</P>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</P>


</P>


The very decision to hire Perry Fewell was a rejection of the "stop the run" philosophy. Fewell had a history of coaching defenses that were good against the pass and horrible against the run.</P>


It was his defense that we tore up for 300+ yards on the ground in 07.</P>




well that I disagree with because I think he was brought in just to focus on the pass defense more because its been more of a gaping hole than anything for us. We were still top 7 vs the run last year and I think alot of what us giving up the run has meant this year really was part of the game plan. I mean just going to the Eagles1 game we gave them the run while focusing on the pass and eagles2 we pretty much stopped the run if not for a garbage tim 80 yarder with 20 seconds to go.

I think when we went with fewell we committed to having a secondary guy lead our defense and we rejected playing "Aggressive". Too much zone and not enough man press
</P>


Our defense vs. both isn't very good. At least not consistently good. Fewell has not been successful here. Period. We hired a guy who plays a lot of cover 2, with a lot of press corners on the roster.</P>


You will never be able to explain that to me. (especially with your limited charm)</P>

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 03:27 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass.* We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

Morehead State
11-28-2011, 03:29 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass. We weren't that deep and had bad injuries
Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....</P>


Yes they would have. the Eagles would have been 9-7 and GB would have still been the 6 seed.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:39 PM
I'm with you on that I'd love to have Spags back.....often catch him on sirius Radio.....hes a great coach I'f we can't get Spags back though, I want Cowher....in the past I have not been a big Cowher supporter Don't ask me why but I have done a 180 also, he wants the job.......I want people who want to be here.....not everyone can stand the heat

i just dont' want a 3-4 defense
Are you against a 3-4 defense because we don't have the right personnel for it? Or because you fundamentally don't believe in a 3-4 defensive scheme?</p>


Don't know about MMB but the personnel is the biggest sticking point for me. Not interested in a complete gutting and rebuild of the defense. Takes too long and waiting to seeif it pans out or not is a big risk. To me the defense as it stands now is scheme dependent. The right scheme will get this defense to close to the best in the league. Also, they haveto take advantage of Eli's prime years. He'll be pasthis prime if we wait to rebuild to a 3-4. Quick turn-arounds after the switch like Green Bay (who had the personnel for it anyway unlike the Giants currently)are rare and short-lived.</p>




You need to have a monster at NT and they are hard to find. Theres not much flexibility with the 3 of a 3-4. I get into a convo with somebody last week about how we could convert to the 3-4.

But first off, I DONT think Osi is physical enough to play OLB. I think Tuck would be a complete waste at DE. I do think JPP could play OLB. Kiwi may have a more sound role and all of that.

One thing where im just not educated on is the ILBs of the 3-4. I don't know enough about what you need out of them. Maybe thats why Im more in favor of the 4-3 though because I generally have a better understanding of it.


</p>


I as always agree with you completely. Let me dig deep into my 1980's memory of the Parcells teams and see if I can summarize what those ILB's need to do. Best bet is to look at the guys who played the positions throughout those years. Harry Carson: Was an awesome all around player, stopped the run first but could harass the QB if need be and could cover most of the TE's in the league at that time. He was a spectacular tackler. Gary Reasons: A top notch tackler as well was best at stopping the run, not as great against the pass adn his coverage skills were nowhere near as good as Carson's. Pepper Johnson: Freak of nature did it all. He was a monster and drove RB's and QB's crazy. Early in his career he had some mental lapses but that ended quick. I in fact don't think he even was a liability in coverage even later in his career. Outside of LT, Pepper was my favorite Giants LB'er with Banks a close third.</p>


The common thread was the ability to stop the run. To me 3-4 ILB's are run stoppers first and foremost. The Giants were blessed to have all around players at those positions for basically the entire Parcells era.</p>


</p>


The very decision to hire Perry Fewell was a rejection of the "stop the run" philosophy. Fewell had a history of coaching defenses that were good against the pass and horrible against the run.</p>


It was his defense that we tore up for 300+ yards on the ground in 07.</p>




well that I disagree with because I think he was brought in just to focus on the pass defense more because its been more of a gaping hole than anything for us. We were still top 7 vs the run last year and I think alot of what us giving up the run has meant this year really was part of the game plan. I mean just going to the Eagles1 game we gave them the run while focusing on the pass and eagles2 we pretty much stopped the run if not for a garbage tim 80 yarder with 20 seconds to go.

I think when we went with fewell we committed to having a secondary guy lead our defense and we rejected playing "Aggressive". Too much zone and not enough man press
</p>


Our defense vs. both isn't very good. At least not consistently good. Fewell has not been successful here. Period. We hired a guy who plays a lot of cover 2, with a lot of press corners on the roster.</p>


You will never be able to explain that to me. (especially with your limited charm)</p>

by my standards - i agree that Fewell hasn't been successful

but by ur standards (based off our debate about Prince's interception last week) u should be very happy with fewell last year

7th vs run and we lead the league in takeaways

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 03:42 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass. We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.


</P>


He said he could prevent injuries where Fassell could not.* He said it was "correctable".* </P>


He failed.</P>

The whole quote is "That is a cancer. Lets face it, something that has to be corrected. Its a mental thing, I believe, as much as anything else. I think it can be a part of the situation you find yourself in when youre losing.

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 03:56 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.


</P>


He said he could prevent injuries where Fassell could not.* He said it was "correctable".* </P>


He failed.</P>




him being wrong about that isn't exactly a major point as to why he should be gone. The truth is he had a theory about the soft camps Fassell had as to why these guys weren't in game shape and got injured. Turns out it wasn't a correct theory.

Mind you, we both pretty much agree about TC's status, but this is not a valid talking point
</P>


Its a fun point to make.* He himself dismissed the "injury excuse".* We can't use it for him now.</P>


He's a good coach but his time is done here.* He's a "disciplinarian" of a team that has never played with discipline while he was coach.* He a coach that supposedly reenforces smart play on the field and his teams have made more dumb mistakes that any other in the league.</P>


His players hate him and have quit on him for 3 years running.* Its not unreasonable for us not to expect it again.</P>

Fwiw, I doubt Coughlin would use injuries as an excuse himself.

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 04:05 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass.* We weren't that deep and had bad injuries
Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....</P>


Yes they would have. the Eagles would have been 9-7 and GB would have still been the 6 seed.</P>

You're right...still, my point stands that it's not like Green Bay was doing so much better with all of their injuries at this point in that season compared to the Giants right now....they were 7-3 before losing 3 of their last 6...

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 04:08 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass.* We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.


? They lost to the Falcons after Thanksgiving and to the Lions and Patriots in December. Since then, yes...they have gone on a tear and won every game they've played. My point is that the Giants are about where the Packers were right before they went on that tear...

gumby742
11-28-2011, 04:10 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?</P>


Every team has to deal with injuries. Every team has to deal with potentially not having enough talent at a certain position. Today's NFL dictates that. This means that virtually every coach in the NFLis in the same boat. If you want to use this excuse, then in your book almost every coach in the NFL is a good one.</P>


However, the Giants DO have a talented roster and have had a talented roster through Coughlin's tenure. His track record for second half season collapses is disturbing. That falls directly on the coaching staff. KG's questionable play calls as well as some questionable things from the defensive coaching staff also falls on TC. If you think our players are "soft" that also falls on the coaching staff.</P>


Does Coughlin have us playing "sufficiently"? Yes. Is he having us firing on all cylinders? No. Do I feel that a change of scenery would benefit us? If the coach is a proven one, yes. The fact that 2008 aside, we've backed into the playoffs with our tails between our legs doesn't sit very well with me. When Pat Riley left the Knicks he said it the best. It goes along the lines of "You can take your team to the playoffs and they may be contenders but sooner or later they will tune you out. You are now holding them back from even greater success." Esentially he's saying that you can have success as a coach and still be responsible for holding a team back.</P>

gmen46
11-28-2011, 04:15 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass.* We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.


What team are you referring to, the 2010 Packers?

They were 8-5 their last 13 games in 2010, not 11-2.

A feat (8-5 the Giants' last 13 games of 2011) the 2011 Giants are capable of accomplishing with a 4-2 finish to this season, starting with tonight, btw.

You may be viewing the 2010 Packers through the prism of the 2011 Packers, methinks.

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 04:16 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?</P>


Every team has to deal with injuries.* Every team has to deal with potentially not having enough talent at a certain position.* Today's NFL dictates that.* This means that virtually every coach in the NFL*is in the same boat.* If you want to use this excuse, then in your book almost every coach in the NFL is a good one.</P>


However, the Giants DO have a talented roster and have had a talented roster through Coughlin's tenure.* His track record for second half season collapses is disturbing.* That falls directly on the coaching staff.* KG's questionable play calls as well as some questionable things from the defensive coaching staff also falls on TC.* If you think our players are "soft" that also falls on the coaching staff.</P>


Does Coughlin have us playing "sufficiently"?* Yes.* Is he having us firing on all cylinders?* No.* Do I feel that a change of scenery would benefit us?* If the coach is a proven one, yes.* The fact that 2008 aside, we've backed into the playoffs with our tails between our legs doesn't sit very well with me.* When Pat Riley left the Knicks he said it the best.* It goes along the lines of "You can take your team to the playoffs and they may be contenders but sooner or later they will tune you out.* You are now holding them back from even greater success."* Esentially he's saying that you can have success as a coach and still be responsible for holding a team back.</P>

Yes...every team has to deal with injuries. I'm not saying they don't. In our current season, we are still contending for the division lead and a playoff spot. If we lose and we are out of contention for that, then I will start wondering about what coach would be a suitable replacement for him. But until that happens, I am in full support of our coaching staff and expect to see us competitive...

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 04:21 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass. We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.


? They lost to the Falcons after Thanksgiving and to the Lions and Patriots in December. Since then, yes...they have gone on a tear and won every game they've played. My point is that the Giants are about where the Packers were right before they went on that tear...

they went 7-2 to finish the season and then cleaned house in the playoffs to win a superbowl

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 04:22 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass. We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.


What team are you referring to, the 2010 Packers?

They were 8-5 their last 13 games in 2010, not 11-2.

A feat (8-5 the Giants' last 13 games of 2011) the 2011 Giants are capable of accomplishing with a 4-2 finish to this season, starting with tonight, btw.

You may be viewing the 2010 Packers through the prism of the 2011 Packers, methinks.

7-2 to finish regular seaosn and then add 4 wins for the superbowl run

MattMeyerBud
11-28-2011, 04:24 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?</p>


Every team has to deal with injuries. Every team has to deal with potentially not having enough talent at a certain position. Today's NFL dictates that. This means that virtually every coach in the NFLis in the same boat. If you want to use this excuse, then in your book almost every coach in the NFL is a good one.</p>


However, the Giants DO have a talented roster and have had a talented roster through Coughlin's tenure. His track record for second half season collapses is disturbing. That falls directly on the coaching staff. KG's questionable play calls as well as some questionable things from the defensive coaching staff also falls on TC. If you think our players are "soft" that also falls on the coaching staff.</p>


Does Coughlin have us playing "sufficiently"? Yes. Is he having us firing on all cylinders? No. Do I feel that a change of scenery would benefit us? If the coach is a proven one, yes. The fact that 2008 aside, we've backed into the playoffs with our tails between our legs doesn't sit very well with me. When Pat Riley left the Knicks he said it the best. It goes along the lines of "You can take your team to the playoffs and they may be contenders but sooner or later they will tune you out. You are now holding them back from even greater success." Esentially he's saying that you can have success as a coach and still be responsible for holding a team back.</p>

Yes...every team has to deal with injuries. I'm not saying they don't. In our current season, we are still contending for the division lead and a playoff spot. If we lose and we are out of contention for that, then I will start wondering about what coach would be a suitable replacement for him. But until that happens, I am in full support of our coaching staff and expect to see us competitive...

i think everybody generally agrees with that

but u can't say u feel confident (mind u, ur among giant fans now) about us getting in the playoffs and making noise.

And not only that- JUST making the playoffs won't do for me personally. I don't want a 1 and done and then have to sit back and hear how Coughlin is doing enough.

Injuries or no injuries, the franchise has put a good team together and we have been underacheiving and inconsistent for too long

gumby742
11-28-2011, 04:25 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass. We weren't that deep and had bad injuries
Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.
What team are you referring to, the 2010 Packers? They were 8-5 their last 13 games in 2010, not 11-2. A feat (8-5 the Giants' last 13 games of 2011) the 2011 Giants are capable of accomplishing with a 4-2 finish to this season, starting with tonight, btw. You may be viewing the 2010 Packers through the prism of the 2011 Packers, methinks.

7-2 to finish regular seaosn and then add 4 wins for the superbowl run
</P>


It's not just if you lost. It's also how you lost. I doubt the Packers of last year looked anywhere near as inept as we do this year.</P>

gmen46
11-28-2011, 04:32 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P>


He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?</P>


Every team has to deal with injuries.* Every team has to deal with potentially not having enough talent at a certain position.* Today's NFL dictates that.* This means that virtually every coach in the NFL*is in the same boat.* If you want to use this excuse, then in your book almost every coach in the NFL is a good one.</P>


However, the Giants DO have a talented roster and have had a talented roster through Coughlin's tenure.* His track record for second half season collapses is disturbing.* That falls directly on the coaching staff.* KG's questionable play calls as well as some questionable things from the defensive coaching staff also falls on TC.* If you think our players are "soft" that also falls on the coaching staff.</P>


Does Coughlin have us playing "sufficiently"?* Yes.* Is he having us firing on all cylinders?* No.* Do I feel that a change of scenery would benefit us?* If the coach is a proven one, yes.* The fact that 2008 aside, we've backed into the playoffs with our tails between our legs doesn't sit very well with me.* When Pat Riley left the Knicks he said it the best.* It goes along the lines of "You can take your team to the playoffs and they may be contenders but sooner or later they will tune you out.* You are now holding them back from even greater success."* Esentially he's saying that you can have success as a coach and still be responsible for holding a team back.</P>

"The fact that 2008 aside, we've backed into the playoffs with our tails between our legs".

This is a grossly incorrect and unfair statement on your part (not unusual coming from you over the years, I concede).

The FACT is that 2006 was the only season we "backed into the playoffs", with our 8-8 record.

To be clear and avoid misunderstanding, "Backing into a playoff" means a team has to depend upon one or more other teams faltering more than it does itself at the end of the season, in order to make the playoffs.

That did occur for us in 2006, but ONLY in 2006 under Coughlin.

It did not occur for us in 2005 (we won the division), 2007 (we won a guaranteed seed with our victory vs Bills in game 15), nor--as you concede--did it occur for us in 2008 when we earned the #1 seed by game 15.

gumby742
11-28-2011, 04:46 PM
"The fact that 2008 aside, we've backed into the playoffs with our tails between our legs". This is a grossly incorrect and unfair statement on your part (not unusual coming from you over the years, I concede). The FACT is that 2006 was the only season we "backed into the playoffs", with our 8-8 record. To be clear and avoid misunderstanding, "Backing into a playoff" means a team has to depend upon one or more other teams faltering more than it does itself at the end of the season, in order to make the playoffs. That did occur for us in 2006, but ONLY in 2006 under Coughlin. It did not occur for us in 2005 (we won the division), 2007 (we won a guaranteed seed with our victory vs Bills in game 15), nor--as you concede--did it occur for us in 2008 when we earned the #1 seed by game 15.</P>


In that case our definition of backing into the playoffs is different. Can you honestly say that in each of our playoffs years we've had a solid finish to end the season? Heck, can you honestly say that in each year TC has been here that we've had a solid finish to ANY season?All I'm asking for is a solid product. By solid I mean that both sides of the ball have played a complete game. Whether we suck or are a good team, as long as we can say we played hard and fairly well on both offense and defense, I'm content. However, if one game the offense shows up, the next game the offense diisappears and the defense shows up, and one game our team sucks and the next game our team is good, that sort of inconsistency falls on the coaches. When you're inconsistent and enter the post season, that's a problem. Who the hell knows what's going to happen? How can you game plan around unknowns?</P>


And inconsistency drives me up the freaking wall. Which btw, is why Eli drives me crazy. I expect consistency from the entire team.</P>

gmen46
11-28-2011, 05:07 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass.* We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.


What team are you referring to, the 2010 Packers?

They were 8-5 their last 13 games in 2010, not 11-2.

A feat (8-5 the Giants' last 13 games of 2011) the 2011 Giants are capable of accomplishing with a 4-2 finish to this season, starting with tonight, btw.

You may be viewing the 2010 Packers through the prism of the 2011 Packers, methinks.

7-2 to finish regular seaosn and then add 4 wins for the superbowl run


They went 6-3 to finish the regular season.

Regardless, your original statement--that "PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into"--implies you are referring to the regular season of the Packers, as if during the regular season the Packers were considered "clearly the best team in football".

They weren't at all considered the best in football (they were considered good, yes, but not "the best in football")--until they won the Super Bowl.

Well, what a concept, eh? Of COURSE the Super Bowl winner would be considered the best in football. But that would be a redundant statement, wouldn't it? And as such, not worth saying at all.

The reason it is worth mentioning at all in the context of this discussion about the impact of injuries, is if you are comparing regular season to regular season performances of teams, and to what extent if any the number of injuries affects a team's performance during the course of the season.

Fact is, the Packers were considered a good team during 2010, not especially great. They proceeded to finish the reg season with a couple of strong wins at the end, and carried that mojo over into the playoffs.

Very similar to the Cards of 2008 (albeit ending with a SB loss), to us in 2007, to the Steelers in 2005, and to the Ravens of 2000.

BParcells777
11-28-2011, 05:49 PM
We had our foot on the Packers necks last year until Matthews caught Jacobs from behind and punch the ball out........then the decline started that lasts to this day

That was an ugly fumble

GameTime
11-28-2011, 06:06 PM
We had our foot on the Packers necks last year until Matthews caught Jacobs from behind and punch the ball out........then the decline started that lasts to this day That was an ugly fumble</P>


Jakk...what freaking game were you watching...</P>


the Giants were losing 31-17 or something like that when Jacobs got caught from behind by Matthews, who made a great play..</P>

sharick88
11-28-2011, 06:27 PM
If we were to make a coaching change, I would rather us go for a new school head coach instead of an old school one. I am not so sure that Cowher could relate to today's nfl player. If only a Mike Tomlin or Rahim Morris clone is out there somwhere..............Anyways, the only old school coach I would not mind having here is Bill B from the patriots if he was ever available. To this day, I am still pissed that he did not get the job when Parcells left

Drez
11-28-2011, 06:44 PM
We had our foot on the Packers necks last year until Matthews caught Jacobs from behind and punch the ball out........then the decline started that lasts to this day That was an ugly fumble</P>


Jakk...what freaking game were you watching...</P>


the Giants were losing 31-17 or something like that when Jacobs got caught from behind by Matthews, who made a great play..</P>


</P>


The play that changed things was the Bradshaw fumble. I believe the score was tied at the point, and we were gearing up to score after his conversion on 3rd down.</P>

yoeddy
11-28-2011, 07:51 PM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags.* He is still a*good coach.* I don't think anyone is denying that.* He's just been here for too long.* He's lost his effectiveness.* All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water.* Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass.* We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.


What team are you referring to, the 2010 Packers?

They were 8-5 their last 13 games in 2010, not 11-2.

A feat (8-5 the Giants' last 13 games of 2011) the 2011 Giants are capable of accomplishing with a 4-2 finish to this season, starting with tonight, btw.

You may be viewing the 2010 Packers through the prism of the 2011 Packers, methinks.

7-2 to finish regular seaosn and then add 4 wins for the superbowl run


The 2010 Packers were 3-3 in their last 6 regular season games last season. Not sure where you're getting 7-2. Their losses were to the Falcons, Lions and Patriots...

BParcells777
11-28-2011, 08:11 PM
We had our foot on the Packers necks last year until Matthews caught Jacobs from behind and punch the ball out........then the decline started that lasts to this day That was an ugly fumble</P>


Jakk...what freaking game were you watching...</P>


the Giants were losing 31-17 or something like that when Jacobs got caught from behind by Matthews, who made a great play..</P>


you have a bad memory....get it checked....you might have early onset dementia....nasty stuff

if Justine carries the ball up high like Tiki was taught to.....we win the game....justine was going to the house on that play

MattMeyerBud
11-29-2011, 08:56 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</p>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</p>

He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass. We weren't that deep and had bad injuries


Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.


What team are you referring to, the 2010 Packers?

They were 8-5 their last 13 games in 2010, not 11-2.

A feat (8-5 the Giants' last 13 games of 2011) the 2011 Giants are capable of accomplishing with a 4-2 finish to this season, starting with tonight, btw.

You may be viewing the 2010 Packers through the prism of the 2011 Packers, methinks.

7-2 to finish regular seaosn and then add 4 wins for the superbowl run


The 2010 Packers were 3-3 in their last 6 regular season games last season. Not sure where you're getting 7-2. Their losses were to the Falcons, Lions and Patriots...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/8439/year/2010/aaron-rodgers


7-2 to finish regular season and 4 wins in the playoffs


ahhh i apologize. I forgot ESPNs new page doesn't include the games players didn't play....

let me rephrase my comment... the last 13 games that Aaron Rodgers played in last year the Packers were 11-2. Obviously my arguement is that with Aaron Rodgers the Packers were the hottest team in the NFL

MattMeyerBud
11-29-2011, 09:00 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?

gumby742
11-29-2011, 09:04 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</P>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders. No one can deny the talent that we have on this team. Spags did far more with less. </P>

Redeyejedi
11-29-2011, 09:07 AM
I dont want Cowher or any other retread.There not going to save this team. The Giants need to find a Jim Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin. People are going to fry me for this but I still like Lane Kiffin. I think he got a bad deal in Oakland that team sucked. New Blood Mike Zimmer of the Bengals whom I know the New York Giants FO likes very much. He was at the top of the list for defensive coordinators before they got Fewell.

yoeddy
11-29-2011, 09:09 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</P>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders.* No one can deny the talent that we have on this team.* Spags did far more with less.* </P>

Do we really have the talent? On offense, is our oline up to the task? On D, with Tuck and Osi looking like they are on the downside of things, are we talented beyond JPP and maybe Webster?

GMENAGAIN
11-29-2011, 09:09 AM
I dont want Cowher or any other retread.There not going to save this team. The Giants need to find a Jim Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin. People are going to fry me for this but I still like Lane Kiffin. I think he got a bad deal in Oakland that team sucked. New Blood Mike Zimmer of the Bengals whom I know the New York Giants FO likes very much. He was at the top of the list for defensive coordinators before they got Fewell.</P>


I completely agree. And this time, I would like a defensive coach . . . I think that Zimmer would be perfect.</P>

Redeyejedi
11-29-2011, 09:11 AM
Coughlin keeping Jacobs in there will cost him his job, his coaches jobs, and the jobs of half the team when Bill Cowher takes over this winter........... Bill Cowher W 149 L 90 .643 Playoffs W12 L9 14 Years with Steelers 1 SB Victory Born 1957.............. Tom Coughlin W112 L65 .580 Playoffs W4 L3 7 Years W Giants 1 SB Victory Born 1946................ Bill Parcells W127 L77 .611 Playoffs W8 L3 7 Years W Giants SB Victories- 2 Born 1941 Cowher sports the best over all record of these 3 in winning percentage with the prime team (Giants, Steelers).........he's 15 yrs younger than Parcells, and 11 yrs younger than Coughlin If you want a change, and you want a coach with Parcells/Coughlin pettigree (or better) Cowher is your man.......he will keep the home lights burning and add a much needed spark Fwiw, Coughlin has a winning record in head-to-head games against Cowher... It's a team sport. True...and even more impressively, Coughlin attained that record against Cowher largely with an expansion team.</P>


Coughlin did very well early on when he was with the Jags. He is still agood coach. I don't think anyone is denying that. He's just been here for too long. He's lost his effectiveness. All this talk of Win vs Loss doesn't hold much water. Your point about him coaching an expansion team is a good counter argument though./</P> He's got a team with 3 rookie LBs starting, 3 DBs on IR (including a starting CB), a huge list of players on IR, and with multiple games missed by Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Nicks, Boley etc....and they are battling for 1st place in the division. How is he "losing his effectiveness"?

Best post of the thread.




while all of that is true that still doesn't change the fact that the talent that is out there is still much better than they are playing.

PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into.

If you want to talk 2009, then okay I will give TC a pass. We weren't that deep and had bad injuries
Packers were 10-6 and a wild card team last year, so they weren't "the best team in football" in the regular season. They had losses to the Redskins (6-10), Dolphins (7-9) and Lions (6-10). Once they got to the playoffs, they only won one of their 4 playoff games by more than 6 points, so it's not like they were dominant there either. And if not for the Giants' historic collapse against the Eagles last season, the Packers wouldn't have even made the playoffs....

11-2 their last 13 games of the year. Hard to say that since the end of OCt 2010, they haven't been the hands down best team in football.
What team are you referring to, the 2010 Packers? They were 8-5 their last 13 games in 2010, not 11-2. A feat (8-5 the Giants' last 13 games of 2011) the 2011 Giants are capable of accomplishing with a 4-2 finish to this season, starting with tonight, btw. You may be viewing the 2010 Packers through the prism of the 2011 Packers, methinks.

7-2 to finish regular seaosn and then add 4 wins for the superbowl run
They went 6-3 to finish the regular season. Regardless, your original statement--that "PAckers lost alot of starters last year and were clearly the best team in football so the concept that injuries automatically kill I just don't buy into"--implies you are referring to the regular season of the Packers, as if during the regular season the Packers were considered "clearly the best team in football". They weren't at all considered the best in football (they were considered good, yes, but not "the best in football")--until they won the Super Bowl. Well, what a concept, eh? Of COURSE the Super Bowl winner would be considered the best in football. But that would be a redundant statement, wouldn't it? And as such, not worth saying at all. The reason it is worth mentioning at all in the context of this discussion about the impact of injuries, is if you are comparing regular season to regular season performances of teams, and to what extent if any the number of injuries affects a team's performance during the course of the season. Fact is, the Packers were considered a good team during 2010, not especially great. They proceeded to finish the reg season with a couple of strong wins at the end, and carried that mojo over into the playoffs. Very similar to the Cards of 2008 (albeit ending with a SB loss), to us in 2007, to the Steelers in 2005, and to the Ravens of 2000.I thought the Packers were the best team last year before the season started.They just started slow.A lot of people had them in the Super Bowl before the season started I remember Boomer Esiason picked them. I had Packers Ravens last year This year I have Packers Patriots.

gumby742
11-29-2011, 09:23 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</P>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders. No one can deny the talent that we have on this team. Spags did far more with less. </P>


Do we really have the talent? On offense, is our oline up to the task? On D, with Tuck and Osi looking like they are on the downside of things, are we talented beyond JPP and maybe Webster?</P>


Funny. I was wondering the same thing. But I think we do. Osi might be older, but he's still a quality DE. Tuck has been hurt. Let's revisit who we have. The Dline is still stacked. I can't imagine a D co-ordinator not being thrilled to work with that group. We're solid at safety - Rolle and Philips. Corner - we have Webster, Thomas, and Prince for depth. Linebacker, i agree we have some work, but with Boley, we aren't awful. Let's just revisit who Spags had to work with and what he did for us. imo, we are extremely talented on defense. arguably the most talent in the league. I can't think of a single defense that INDIVIDUALLY have more talent then we do. The fact that we haven't gelled is on the coaching staff.</P>


The biggest question mark is really our oline. They stink. As much as I love JR, I don't unerstand paying for Baas. The rest of the offense is great. Nicks, Cruz, Eli. The RBs - if our oline is blocking it won't matter who we have back there.</P>


Afterwriting this, I'm positive that we're a very, verytalented team.</P>


What new/effective coaching will do for us immediately is 1) Get the defense playing up to th eir potential. and 2) Put together a complete game where both defense and offense are playing up to their potential. Those 2 alone will win us A LOT of games. How many games can you count in the past where both offense and defense showed up? Not many. And they are probably all in 2008.</P>


True, we can't solve the oline issue over night. But every team has holes. Both the Packers and Steelers have had a crap oline for a while now and it's not stopping them. Especially Pittsburgh. Their oline is horrible. Chicago's line is also awful.</P>


We have the talent to win now. We just need people to put the pieces together.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-29-2011, 09:26 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</p>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders. No one can deny the talent that we have on this team. Spags did far more with less. </p>

Do we really have the talent? On offense, is our oline up to the task? On D, with Tuck and Osi looking like they are on the downside of things, are we talented beyond JPP and maybe Webster?

absolutely.

I'll give u the oline, although we did seem better yesterday with diehl at tackle, but we have the talent every where else even with the injuries. No way yesterday should o fhappened the way it did. We may not of had the team to win, but that was disgracful

MattMeyerBud
11-29-2011, 09:27 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</p>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders. No one can deny the talent that we have on this team. Spags did far more with less. </p>


Do we really have the talent? On offense, is our oline up to the task? On D, with Tuck and Osi looking like they are on the downside of things, are we talented beyond JPP and maybe Webster?</p>


Funny. I was wondering the same thing. But I think we do. Osi might be older, but he's still a quality DE. Tuck has been hurt. Let's revisit who we have. The Dline is still stacked. I can't imagine a D co-ordinator not being thrilled to work with that group. We're solid at safety - Rolle and Philips. Corner - we have Webster, Thomas, and Prince for depth. Linebacker, i agree we have some work, but with Boley, we aren't awful. Let's just revisit who Spags had to work with and what he did for us. imo, we are extremely talented on defense. arguably the most talent in the league. I can't think of a single defense that INDIVIDUALLY have more talent then we do. The fact that we haven't gelled is on the coaching staff.</p>


The biggest question mark is really our oline. They stink. As much as I love JR, I don't unerstand paying for Baas. The rest of the offense is great. Nicks, Cruz, Eli. The RBs - if our oline is blocking it won't matter who we have back there.</p>


Afterwriting this, I'm positive that we're a very, verytalented team.</p>

I think Baas was just a product of OHara and Seurburt being done, we needed a center, he was best available, and with the lockout we just did what we had to do

gumby742
11-29-2011, 09:30 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</P>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders. No one can deny the talent that we have on this team. Spags did far more with less. </P>


Do we really have the talent? On offense, is our oline up to the task? On D, with Tuck and Osi looking like they are on the downside of things, are we talented beyond JPP and maybe Webster?</P>


Funny. I was wondering the same thing. But I think we do. Osi might be older, but he's still a quality DE. Tuck has been hurt. Let's revisit who we have. The Dline is still stacked. I can't imagine a D co-ordinator not being thrilled to work with that group. We're solid at safety - Rolle and Philips. Corner - we have Webster, Thomas, and Prince for depth. Linebacker, i agree we have some work, but with Boley, we aren't awful. Let's just revisit who Spags had to work with and what he did for us. imo, we are extremely talented on defense. arguably the most talent in the league. I can't think of a single defense that INDIVIDUALLY have more talent then we do. The fact that we haven't gelled is on the coaching staff.</P>


The biggest question mark is really our oline. They stink. As much as I love JR, I don't unerstand paying for Baas. The rest of the offense is great. Nicks, Cruz, Eli. The RBs - if our oline is blocking it won't matter who we have back there.</P>


Afterwriting this, I'm positive that we're a very, verytalented team.</P>




I think Baas was just a product of OHara and Seurburt being done, we needed a center, he was best available, and with the lockout we just did what we had to do
</P>


</P>


I added an addition part of my post:</P>


"</P>


What new/effective coaching will do for us immediately is 1) Get the defense playing up to th eir potential. and 2) Put together a complete game where both defense and offense are playing up to their potential. Those 2 alone will win us A LOT of games. How many games can you count in the past where both offense and defense showed up? Not many. And they are probably all in 2008.</P>


True, we can't solve the oline issue over night. But every team has holes. Both the Packers and Steelers have had a crap oline for a while now and it's not stopping them. Especially Pittsburgh. Their oline is horrible. Chicago's line is also awful.</P>


We have the talent to win now. We just need people to put the pieces together."</P>

GMENAGAIN
11-29-2011, 09:32 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</P>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders. No one can deny the talent that we have on this team. Spags did far more with less. </P>


Do we really have the talent? On offense, is our oline up to the task? On D, with Tuck and Osi looking like they are on the downside of things, are we talented beyond JPP and maybe Webster?</P>


Funny. I was wondering the same thing. But I think we do. Osi might be older, but he's still a quality DE. Tuck has been hurt. Let's revisit who we have. The Dline is still stacked. I can't imagine a D co-ordinator not being thrilled to work with that group. We're solid at safety - Rolle and Philips. Corner - we have Webster, Thomas, and Prince for depth. Linebacker, i agree we have some work, but with Boley, we aren't awful. Let's just revisit who Spags had to work with and what he did for us. imo, we are extremely talented on defense. arguably the most talent in the league. I can't think of a single defense that INDIVIDUALLY have more talent then we do. The fact that we haven't gelled is on the coaching staff.</P>


The biggest question mark is really our oline. They stink. As much as I love JR, I don't unerstand paying for Baas. The rest of the offense is great. Nicks, Cruz, Eli. The RBs - if our oline is blocking it won't matter who we have back there.</P>


Afterwriting this, I'm positive that we're a very, verytalented team.</P>


</P>


Our talent is vastly overated.</P>


We are not solid at safety. Rolle and Phillips are barely above-average on their best days and make no impact plays. Grant is shot and will not be in the league next year.</P>


Webster is not a #1 corner . . . . he got abused last night. Hopefully, the Prince will turn out to be the type of shut-down CB we need.</P>


Our LB's are a joke. Herzlich is a nice story, but he should not be starting on an NFL team. Right now, we are playing a bunch of 6th rounders and UDFA's -- they showed some promise early in the season, but haven't made any impact plays in weeks.</P>


Tuck is great when he is healthy, which means that he is never great. He is a poor leader -- mopes on the sidelines and goes on Francesa's show and says that he is "in a funk" and sounds like he needs to be on anti-depressants.</P>


Osi will not be here next year.</P>


Our o-line is terrible. We need to get some road graders in here. No more of these finesse guys.</P>


Our best RB can't make it through the season. The rest of them are garbage.</P>


This team has major problems. Time to face them. </P>

Landshark
11-29-2011, 09:39 AM
fixed but its splittig hairs a bit.....he's apparently not embraced by the team unless they are winning......<font color="#0000FF">players who have left and even some on the roster have been telling us this for years.</font>....he's kind of aloof and cold....not his fault, that's his personality

I am going to say this so even you will understand.* You need to provide quotes and links if you are going to continue to do this.* And when you use "*" you need to be quoting exactly what was said.*

Clear?


Good lord, what is this? A televised election debate? Relax for gods sake. I agree with you that he needs to use facts correctly, but it's not the end of the world, it just makes him look stupid.

You, on the other hand, threatening a ban for his ignorance in argument ability, is ridiculous. How did you become a mod? Good lord...

I know, I know, I better stop or I'm banned too right? Gimme a break...

gumby742
11-29-2011, 09:40 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</P>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders. No one can deny the talent that we have on this team. Spags did far more with less. </P>


Do we really have the talent? On offense, is our oline up to the task? On D, with Tuck and Osi looking like they are on the downside of things, are we talented beyond JPP and maybe Webster?</P>


Funny. I was wondering the same thing. But I think we do. Osi might be older, but he's still a quality DE. Tuck has been hurt. Let's revisit who we have. The Dline is still stacked. I can't imagine a D co-ordinator not being thrilled to work with that group. We're solid at safety - Rolle and Philips. Corner - we have Webster, Thomas, and Prince for depth. Linebacker, i agree we have some work, but with Boley, we aren't awful. Let's just revisit who Spags had to work with and what he did for us. imo, we are extremely talented on defense. arguably the most talent in the league. I can't think of a single defense that INDIVIDUALLY have more talent then we do. The fact that we haven't gelled is on the coaching staff.</P>


The biggest question mark is really our oline. They stink. As much as I love JR, I don't unerstand paying for Baas. The rest of the offense is great. Nicks, Cruz, Eli. The RBs - if our oline is blocking it won't matter who we have back there.</P>


Afterwriting this, I'm positive that we're a very, verytalented team.</P>


</P>


Our talent is vastly overated.</P>


We are not solid at safety. Rolle and Phillips are barely above-average on their best days and make no impact plays. Grant is shot and will not be in the league next year.</P>


Webster is not a #1 corner . . . . he got abused last night. Hopefully, the Prince will turn out to be the type of shut-down CB we need.</P>


Our LB's are a joke. Herzlich is a nice story, but he should not be starting on an NFL team. Right now, we are playing a bunch of 6th rounders and UDFA's -- they showed some promise early in the season, but haven't made any impact plays in weeks.</P>


Tuck is great when he is healthy, which means that he is never great. He is a poor leader -- mopes on the sidelines and goes on Francesa's show and says that he is "in a funk" and sounds like he needs to be on anti-depressants.</P>


Osi will not be here next year.</P>


Our o-line is terrible. We need to get some road graders in here. No more of these finesse guys.</P>


Our best RB can't make it through the season. The rest of them are garbage.</P>


This team has major problems. Time to face them. </P>


</P>


Over-rated? Maybe. Enough to be a very, very good defense? Definitely. Again, I'll challenge you to find me a team with more collective INDIVIDUAL talent then we do - defensively. Philips and Rolle will be starters on practically every team.</P>


I agree. Our oline blows. Our Lbers aren't great, but they are serviceable. Just think about who Spags had to work with.</P>

Morehead State
11-29-2011, 09:45 AM
anybody not on the "We need a change" argument today?
</P>


I firmly believe a new coaching staff - top to bottom, with a new outlook, and new ideas would do this team wonders. No one can deny the talent that we have on this team. Spags did far more with less. </P>


Do we really have the talent? On offense, is our oline up to the task? On D, with Tuck and Osi looking like they are on the downside of things, are we talented beyond JPP and maybe Webster?</P>


Funny. I was wondering the same thing. But I think we do. Osi might be older, but he's still a quality DE. Tuck has been hurt. Let's revisit who we have. The Dline is still stacked. I can't imagine a D co-ordinator not being thrilled to work with that group. We're solid at safety - Rolle and Philips. Corner - we have Webster, Thomas, and Prince for depth. Linebacker, i agree we have some work, but with Boley, we aren't awful. Let's just revisit who Spags had to work with and what he did for us. imo, we are extremely talented on defense. arguably the most talent in the league. I can't think of a single defense that INDIVIDUALLY have more talent then we do. The fact that we haven't gelled is on the coaching staff.</P>


The biggest question mark is really our oline. They stink. As much as I love JR, I don't unerstand paying for Baas. The rest of the offense is great. Nicks, Cruz, Eli. The RBs - if our oline is blocking it won't matter who we have back there.</P>


Afterwriting this, I'm positive that we're a very, verytalented team.</P>


</P>


Our talent is vastly overated.</P>


We are not solid at safety. Rolle and Phillips are barely above-average on their best days and make no impact plays. Grant is shot and will not be in the league next year.</P>


Webster is not a #1 corner . . . . he got abused last night. Hopefully, the Prince will turn out to be the type of shut-down CB we need.</P>


Our LB's are a joke. Herzlich is a nice story, but he should not be starting on an NFL team. Right now, we are playing a bunch of 6th rounders and UDFA's -- they showed some promise early in the season, but haven't made any impact plays in weeks.</P>


Tuck is great when he is healthy, which means that he is never great. He is a poor leader -- mopes on the sidelines and goes on Francesa's show and says that he is "in a funk" and sounds like he needs to be on anti-depressants.</P>


Osi will not be here next year.</P>


Our o-line is terrible. We need to get some road graders in here. No more of these finesse guys.</P>


Our best RB can't make it through the season. The rest of them are garbage.</P>


This team has major problems. Time to face them. </P>


</P>


Our talent on defense is a lot better than one that gives up 567 yards.</P>


Our talent on defense is good enough to be a top 5 defense. Our scheme doesn't match our personnel. Press corners playing in a cover 2 scheme.</P>


These players can be coached to be a lot better than they are.</P>

jppmvp90
01-25-2012, 08:06 PM
no

OrangeGiant
01-25-2012, 08:19 PM
Bill Cowher may someday be coach of the Giants. When Tom Coughlin says its ok!</P>


Seriously, look at some of the names that were bantered about and guys who are interviewing and getting the jobs open right now. Mike Sherman, Mike Tice, Wade Philips. Retreads and #2 guys. Mike Tice and Wade Philips? Really? Why not go after Dave Campo while you're at it.</P>


Who knows how these "hot" coordinators are going to do. Some do well, most don't. I said awhile ago to be careful what you wish for when it came to wishing TC off. We will see eventually what it will be like to try to replace him. Maybe Bill Cowher is keeping his hat out of the ring right now and was hoping for a TC stumble. </P>


It didn't happen.</P>

bflo23
01-25-2012, 08:24 PM
Tom Coughlin says "How you like me now?!"

GmenFan1980
01-25-2012, 08:25 PM
jppmvp90 has made this quite the crow eating night :S lol

Roswell777
03-13-2012, 12:30 PM
Sometimes it's fun to go back and review the mindset of the 2011 season.

CTLadyBlue
03-13-2012, 01:06 PM
I hope I never hear another, 'fire Couglin and let's get Cowher' rant ever EVER again. Even during the losing streak, I never wanted Coughlin gone - let alone dump him for Cowher. I never understood these constant calls for Cowher as if he were the golden answer. I just don't see his style as a 'fit' in NY - even if he was with a franchise (Steelers) which is as old in tradition as the Giants.

jakegibbs
03-13-2012, 01:38 PM
Whoops I think it needed revising see below for update.

Tom Coughlin W121 L72 .595 Playoffs W8L3
8 Years W Giants 2 SB Victory
Born 1946................

giantsmets1
03-13-2012, 04:51 PM
Are the original winning percentages correct in this post? They do not appear to be, in fact it looks like Coiughlin actually had the highest at the time of the post.

bklyn1028
03-13-2012, 05:01 PM
Sometimes it's fun to go back and review the mindset of the 2011 season.

You're so right. I never cared for Cowher, never thought he was the Giants "savior". I never had any doubt Mara would get rid of Coughlin anyway. Besides, I told everyone I spoke with about this, Cowher won ONE (1) {ichi} [ein] UNO superbowl. Why would anyone think he would be better than Coughlin. Boggled my mind.

Anyway, it's over and done with. Coughlin etched his name in this franchise's future history, and longevity.