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View Full Version : Someone explain to me how this is Coughlin's fault? Guy is a GREAT coach



NYG4lifeNYK
11-30-2011, 04:25 PM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... & that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans & schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE & WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.

hadenough
11-30-2011, 04:28 PM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... & that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans & schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE & WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.


Terrible game plans and schemes are drawn up by coaches....and a head coach has final say.

lawl
11-30-2011, 04:31 PM
Coughlin's the one who said that injuries are mostly mental, inferring he would fix fassel's mistakes in that regard.

Good call on that one Tom.

During TC's tenure this team has always peaked at the wrong time of the season. John madden always stressed that was important to start peaking just after thanksgiving, and that just hasn't been the case.

It sounds asinine to say, but '07 is looking more and more like an anomaly.

GameTime
11-30-2011, 04:33 PM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... & that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans & schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE & WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.
</P>


It his team. He is responsible for the good, the bad, and the ugly. Whether his fault or not its his team. </P>


He cant control injuries but he can control what he thinks are good schemes or not. He can be a motivator. He is very good coach but at the end of the day that doesnt matter. Even good coaches have bad seasons. </P>


You think he is not responsible for gameplanning?......Or better yet.....if a game plan isnt working then adjust. The offense seems to be able to do that sometimes....the defense never does. He needs to do something about that. Either tell the DC what he wants or fire him for example. Or maybe he agrees with what his coordinators are doing. In that case then hee needs to revaluate the whole situation. </P>

CDN_G-FAN
11-30-2011, 04:35 PM
as i've heard a number of former coaches say, sometimes you don't get replaced by someone better than you.</P>


sometimes just being someone different is all a team is looking for.</P>


by reputation among other coaches alone, coughlin is an unbelievable head coach. you can't have his record without being really good at what you do.</P>


but the time has probably come to see what someone else can do with this roster, for no other reason that it lets you know how much of this issue is coachingor how much of this issue is your roster.</P>


it also means your GM no longer has any cover anymore either (ie: "i didn't hire this guy").</P>


So everyone gets a little more uncomfortable with a change, which i consider a good thing.</P>

giantsforce
11-30-2011, 04:36 PM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... & that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans & schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE & WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.


Terrible game plans and schemes are drawn up by coaches....and a head coach has final say.That plus the fact that he NEVER makes any game time adjustments, he has no way of motivating his players for the big games, he sticks with the same non-innovative play calling both on Offense and Defense and he has no good judgment of talent. He seems to let his coordinators call whatever they want and he is not very much involved in the actual game . He is just a bystander in the sidelines. Besides, who chooses who will be on the field? So if the players do not have heart and pride why are they on the field?

burier
11-30-2011, 04:40 PM
if its not coughlins fault then who????

Since Cough has been here we lose to teams we should beat. Have had embarassing melt downs toward the end of the season...Been chased out of playoff games even in our own building after achieving a first round bye.

The greatest moment I've ever had as a sports fan came by way of Tom Coughlins Giants so its pains me to say that if he can get this thing turned around in a hurry then he needs to go.

The Superbowl was great but its been pretty brutal since.

12-4 then getting immediately bounced from the playoffs...(Primed to repeat mind you.)

Sickening defeats the following year including an embarassing defeat in the last game in Giants Stadium.

The Miracle in the meadowlands part 2

All these things happened on Coughlins watch. The buck has to stop somewhere.

CDN_G-FAN
11-30-2011, 04:43 PM
Coughlin's the one who said that injuries are mostly mental, inferring he would fix fassel's mistakes in that regard. Good call on that one Tom. During TC's tenure this team has always peaked at the wrong time of the season. John madden always stressed that was important to start peaking just after thanksgiving, and that just hasn't been the case. <FONT size=5>It sounds asinine to say, but '07 is looking more and more like an anomaly</FONT>.</P>


how is that asinine at all?</P>


other than our collective pride as fans, what evidence do what have that 07 was anything more than catching lightening in a bottle once?</P>

PrideofNY
11-30-2011, 04:45 PM
Are you serious? Terrible game plans and schemes are FROM the coaches.

yoeddy
11-30-2011, 04:58 PM
Coughlin's the one who said that injuries are mostly mental, inferring he would fix fassel's mistakes in that regard. Good call on that one Tom. During TC's tenure this team has always peaked at the wrong time of the season. John madden always stressed that was important to start peaking just after thanksgiving, and that just hasn't been the case. <FONT size=5>It sounds asinine to say, but '07 is looking more and more like an anomaly</FONT>.</P>


how is that asinine at all?</P>


other than our collective pride as fans, what evidence do what have that 07 was anything more than catching lightening in a bottle once?</P>

For most Super Bowl winning teams, this is true...

Zaggs
11-30-2011, 05:29 PM
I want Coughlin fired. Now, do I believe this season is entirely his fault? No. I think the coordinators have more blame than Coughlin. The problem is I dont see the coordinators going unless Coughlin does.

mike kennedy
11-30-2011, 10:37 PM
You should know by now that the posters who post negative comments toward TC are the ones who couldn't catch a wiffle ball and know nothing about the game. Just a bunch of pansies who are letting their panties get caught in a bind!

ELIistheFRANCHISE
11-30-2011, 10:47 PM
You should know by now that the posters who post negative comments toward TC are the ones who couldn't catch a wiffle ball and know nothing about the game. Just a bunch of pansies who are letting their panties get caught in a bind!
</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>Yes, I totally agree. The fans who post negative comments about him know nothing about the game. They also can't catch a wiffle ball? You lost me on that one. And yesthey are a bunch of pansies with their "panties" getting caught in a bind because after years of second half collapsesthey finally believe the head coach should feel accountable. Yes, they are big dumb stupid heads!</FONT></P>

hungrrrry
12-01-2011, 10:15 AM
I want Coughlin fired.* Now, do I believe this season is entirely his fault?* No.* I think the coordinators have more blame than Coughlin.* The problem is I dont see the coordinators going unless Coughlin does.


agreed....i actually don't want him fired but I don't believe he will fire his OC or DC and thus he will have to be cut to rid the team of poor scheming

Morehead State
12-01-2011, 10:27 AM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... &amp; that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans &amp; schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE &amp; WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.
</P>


Well if you go by Tom Coughlins original quote when he took the job...yes the injuries are his fault. He essentially blame Fassell for the injuries they had when he was the coach.</P>


That aside...Every team has injuries. In our case, the most important position..QB, has suffered no injuries in his entire tenure here. How many other teams can say that. Almost none. What would happen to us if David Carr had to start? A lot worse than other team who are on their 2nd or 3rd QB's. Lets hope we don't have to find out because TC has this team ill prepared for that.</P>


Its also true that our secondary as it is right now, is full of nothing but 1st ans 2nd round picks. Our D line, essentially the same. The only real problem is at LB, and we have terrible depth. and/or the backups are poorly coached.</P>


TC has lost this team. they have tuned him out. And his history backs this up. His last 3 seasons at JAX were losing ones. He's an acquired taste as a HC, and our players have lost their appetite for this regime.</P>


Our "disciplinarian" coach with a team that plays with no discipline.</P>


</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-01-2011, 10:42 AM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... &amp; that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans &amp; schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE &amp; WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.
</P>


Well if you go by Tom Coughlins original quote when he took the job...yes the injuries are his fault. He essentially blame Fassell for the injuries they had when he was the coach.</P>


That aside...Every team has injuries. In our case, the most important position..QB, has suffered no injuries in his entire tenure here. How many other teams can say that. Almost none. What would happen to us if David Carr had to start? A lot worse than other team who are on their 2nd or 3rd QB's. Lets hope we don't have to find out because TC has this team ill prepared for that.</P>


Its also true that our secondary as it is right now, is full of nothing but 1st ans 2nd round picks. Our D line, essentially the same. The only real problem is at LB, and we have terrible depth. and/or the backups are poorly coached.</P>


TC has lost this team. they have tuned him out. And his history backs this up. His last 3 seasons at JAX were losing ones. He's an acquired taste as a HC, and our players have lost their appetite for this regime.</P>


Our "disciplinarian" coach with a team that plays with no discipline.</P>


</P>


</P>


That rant against injuries that TC made when he took the job was just silly. Dumbest thing that he has said since he's been here.</P>


So if TC has lost this team, he has done so in the last 2 weeks, correct? Because neither you nor anyone else was on here saying that he lost the team when they were 6-3 after the 49er game. So the team listened to him for the first 9 weeks and then tuned him out during the last 2? What is it that you think happened during the last 2 weeks to cause this to happen????</P>


</P>

Morehead State
12-01-2011, 10:57 AM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... &amp; that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans &amp; schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE &amp; WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.
</P>


Well if you go by Tom Coughlins original quote when he took the job...yes the injuries are his fault. He essentially blame Fassell for the injuries they had when he was the coach.</P>


That aside...Every team has injuries. In our case, the most important position..QB, has suffered no injuries in his entire tenure here. How many other teams can say that. Almost none. What would happen to us if David Carr had to start? A lot worse than other team who are on their 2nd or 3rd QB's. Lets hope we don't have to find out because TC has this team ill prepared for that.</P>


Its also true that our secondary as it is right now, is full of nothing but 1st ans 2nd round picks. Our D line, essentially the same. The only real problem is at LB, and we have terrible depth. and/or the backups are poorly coached.</P>


TC has lost this team. they have tuned him out. And his history backs this up. His last 3 seasons at JAX were losing ones. He's an acquired taste as a HC, and our players have lost their appetite for this regime.</P>


Our "disciplinarian" coach with a team that plays with no discipline.</P>


</P>


</P>


That rant against injuries that TC made when he took the job was just silly. Dumbest thing that he has said since he's been here.</P>


So if TC has lost this team, he has done so in the last 2 weeks, correct? Because neither you nor anyone else was on here saying that he lost the team when they were 6-3 after the 49er game. So the team listened to him for the first 9 weeks and then tuned him out during the last 2? What is it that you think happened during the last 2 weeks to cause this to happen????</P>


</P>


</P>


I wouldn't say it was the last two weeks at all. I think when the chips are down, this coach has shown an inability to get these guys prepared and motivated. Don't get me wrong, I think TC is a good coach and has been a good Giant, but his ability to get the most out of these players is lost.And thepredictable late season collapses demonstrates this. It has to do with a lot of factors.One being that he has a bizaare loyalty to his assistants. He essentially had to be threatened by ownership to fire both Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan. I also think the players in general have a distaste for TC as a person. I really think they don't respect him as a modern coach. Thats not the end of the world of course, but when it comes right down to it, they will not go the extra mile for their coach. They may for their own jobs, but that extra motivation is lacking. And we saw what can happen with Ray Handley when a coach can't motivate his players.</P>


Too many players popping off about his style. And I'm talking about players while they are on the team.</P>

funkybudda
12-01-2011, 11:07 AM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... &amp; that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans &amp; schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE &amp; WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.


sure, TC can't do anything about injuries, but how can you excuse him from terrible game plans &amp; schemes? He's directly responsive for OC and DC, he should be held accountable.

bigblue58
12-01-2011, 11:43 AM
It's John mara's fault!
Mr. Mara signed off on contracts, the structures of which ended up hamstringing the team and leaving it unable to make any improvements in key areas during the most well stocked FA period of the FA era.
And you can blame Mara for hiring a GM who has an eye for talent, but clearly not the head or savvy to fenagle his way around and under the cap like other teams in similar circumstances were able to do.
Mara was furious about the second half collapse last year, and he called the team "quitters", yet he allowed the team to fall into cap room trouble this season and forced Reese to have to sit on his hands while established FA in areas the Giants desperately needed veteran help went to other teams.

Big Blue 418
12-01-2011, 12:20 PM
2007 was a fluke . No Playoff wins other than 2007 ? A 2nd half record is abysmal injuries or not this is a trend now ...

Is it all Coughlin's fault ? Of course not but he has not done enough to warrent another long term extension . He is 65 , this team ain't going anywher right now . Its time to clean house and bring in a whole new coaching staff .

When you see players quit on you like the D did against the Saints , its time to move on , and some players need to go to.

I want Coughlin & Staff gone..
I want Osi the diva gone
I want Jacobs gone.
Rollle I am mixed on.

Basically anyone that half asses it or has a bad atitude now needs to go . If it sets us back a year and we need to rebuild to become a sb contender so be it .
Look at the Packers now they endure a couple bad seasons and are on verge of a dynasty.
The Giants are stuck in 500ville . Not good enough for the playoffs and not bad enough to restock through drafts .

GMENAGAIN
12-01-2011, 12:21 PM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... &amp; that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans &amp; schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE &amp; WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.
</P>


Well if you go by Tom Coughlins original quote when he took the job...yes the injuries are his fault. He essentially blame Fassell for the injuries they had when he was the coach.</P>


That aside...Every team has injuries. In our case, the most important position..QB, has suffered no injuries in his entire tenure here. How many other teams can say that. Almost none. What would happen to us if David Carr had to start? A lot worse than other team who are on their 2nd or 3rd QB's. Lets hope we don't have to find out because TC has this team ill prepared for that.</P>


Its also true that our secondary as it is right now, is full of nothing but 1st ans 2nd round picks. Our D line, essentially the same. The only real problem is at LB, and we have terrible depth. and/or the backups are poorly coached.</P>


TC has lost this team. they have tuned him out. And his history backs this up. His last 3 seasons at JAX were losing ones. He's an acquired taste as a HC, and our players have lost their appetite for this regime.</P>


Our "disciplinarian" coach with a team that plays with no discipline.</P>


</P>


</P>


That rant against injuries that TC made when he took the job was just silly. Dumbest thing that he has said since he's been here.</P>


So if TC has lost this team, he has done so in the last 2 weeks, correct? Because neither you nor anyone else was on here saying that he lost the team when they were 6-3 after the 49er game. So the team listened to him for the first 9 weeks and then tuned him out during the last 2? What is it that you think happened during the last 2 weeks to cause this to happen????</P>


</P>


</P>


I wouldn't say it was the last two weeks at all. I think when the chips are down, this coach has shown an inability to get these guys prepared and motivated. Don't get me wrong, I think TC is a good coach and has been a good Giant, but his ability to get the most out of these players is lost.And thepredictable late season collapses demonstrates this. It has to do with a lot of factors.One being that he has a bizaare loyalty to his assistants. He essentially had to be threatened by ownership to fire both Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan. I also think the players in general have a distaste for TC as a person. I really think they don't respect him as a modern coach. Thats not the end of the world of course, but when it comes right down to it, they will not go the extra mile for their coach. They may for their own jobs, but that extra motivation is lacking. And we saw what can happen with Ray Handley when a coach can't motivate his players.</P>


Too many players popping off about his style. And I'm talking about players while they are on the team.</P>


</P>


I'm willing to wait until after these next 5 games are played to decide TC's fate. If they go 5-0, I'll be in favor of him staying. If they go 0-5 I'll be in favor of him leaving.</P>


To me TC's biggest fault during his tenure has been his hiring of assistants. How many assistants that he has hired have to turn out to be failures before he is swept out with them???</P>


I disagree that the players don't respect TC. I think that they respect him as a man and a coach, but I don't think they love him to the point that they would run through a wall for him. </P>


</P>

galaxy10
12-01-2011, 12:23 PM
"The Giants are stuck in 500ville . Not good enough for the playoffs and not bad enough to restock through drafts ."

Great Point

Big Blue 418
12-01-2011, 12:27 PM
"The Giants are stuck in 500ville . Not good enough for the playoffs and not bad enough to restock through drafts ."

Great Point


Yep and people got upset at me when I said I preferred we finish 6-10 now rather than 9-7 ... This team needs to rebuild . In football if you make good moves it doesn't have to take forever .... I will endure a bad season from beginning to end rather than these awful teases now .

I want to rebuild with a new staff and get rid of the garbage like Osi

BlueSanta
12-01-2011, 12:42 PM
I love when people try to argue that game losses due to injury are not on the coaches and front office.

Who's job is it to make sure we have good depth? Who's job is it to prepare and develop young players so they they are ready when asked to step up?

Was it not a great credit to the Packers last year that they won the superbowl while having the most players on injured reserve?

Furthermore, lets look at some of our injuries..

- The knock on T2 coming out of college, and the ONLY reason he made it to round 2 was the serious nature of the injury to his knee. Some teams took him off their boards. We drafted him taking a gamble on that knee. You might call it bad luck, but thats like betting the long shot then complaining when he doesnt win.

- AB had double surgery on his ankles last year. I love the guy, but we went to great lengths to sign him over some other free agents who didnt have the cloud of bad feet and ankles looming. Quite a few of those guys are paid less than AB and have produced a lot more this year. Its tough to say they would do so here with our bad Oline, but still.

- Hixon was coming off a bad knee injury and was clearly not ready to be back on the field. Rushing him back may have cost him his career. Sintim also coming off a torn knee was clearly not ready to be back on the field. He also, is likely done in the league.

So, if you are a GM and you draft a guy coming off a serious knee injury, then he reinjures that same knee. Its not just "bad luck."

If you a GM and you resign your primary HB to shoulder most of the load, but he is coming off double foot surgery and he then injures his feet again, its not "bad luck". You should have made sure he has someone there to help him carry the load. BJ, obviously is not that guy and its your job to know that.

If your a GM and you have 2 players coming off serious knee surgeries, and you expect both of these guys to be starters, you best have quality depth behind those guys in case some " not bad luck" strikes again.

GMENAGAIN
12-01-2011, 12:54 PM
I love when people try to argue that game losses due to injury are not on the coaches and front office.

Who's job is it to make sure we have good depth? Who's job is it to prepare and develop young players so they they are ready when asked to step up?

Was it not a great credit to the Packers last year that they won the superbowl while having the most players on injured reserve?

Furthermore, lets look at some of our injuries..

- The knock on T2 coming out of college, and the ONLY reason he made it to round 2 was the serious nature of the injury to his knee. Some teams took him off their boards. We drafted him taking a gamble on that knee. You might call it bad luck, but thats like betting the long shot then complaining when he doesnt win.

- AB had double surgery on his ankles last year. I love the guy, but we went to great lengths to sign him over some other free agents who didnt have the cloud of bad feet and ankles looming. Quite a few of those guys are paid less than AB and have produced a lot more this year. Its tough to say they would do so here with our bad Oline, but still.

- Hixon was coming off a bad knee injury and was clearly not ready to be back on the field. Rushing him back may have cost him his career. Sintim also coming off a torn knee was clearly not ready to be back on the field. He also, is likely done in the league.

So, if you are a GM and you draft a guy coming off a serious knee injury, then he reinjures that same knee. Its not just "bad luck."

If you a GM and you resign your primary HB to shoulder most of the load, but he is coming off double foot surgery and he then injures his feet again, its not "bad luck". You should have made sure he has someone there to help him carry the load. BJ, obviously is not that guy and its your job to know that.

If your a GM and you have 2 players coming off serious knee surgeries, and you expect both of these guys to be starters, you best have quality depth behind those guys in case some " not bad luck" strikes again.
</P>


Where is the coach to blame for anything described in your post?</P>


What other free agent RB's should we have signed instead of Bradshaw??</P>

Morehead State
12-01-2011, 01:21 PM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... &amp; that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans &amp; schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE &amp; WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.
</P>


Well if you go by Tom Coughlins original quote when he took the job...yes the injuries are his fault. He essentially blame Fassell for the injuries they had when he was the coach.</P>


That aside...Every team has injuries. In our case, the most important position..QB, has suffered no injuries in his entire tenure here. How many other teams can say that. Almost none. What would happen to us if David Carr had to start? A lot worse than other team who are on their 2nd or 3rd QB's. Lets hope we don't have to find out because TC has this team ill prepared for that.</P>


Its also true that our secondary as it is right now, is full of nothing but 1st ans 2nd round picks. Our D line, essentially the same. The only real problem is at LB, and we have terrible depth. and/or the backups are poorly coached.</P>


TC has lost this team. they have tuned him out. And his history backs this up. His last 3 seasons at JAX were losing ones. He's an acquired taste as a HC, and our players have lost their appetite for this regime.</P>


Our "disciplinarian" coach with a team that plays with no discipline.</P>


</P>


</P>


That rant against injuries that TC made when he took the job was just silly. Dumbest thing that he has said since he's been here.</P>


So if TC has lost this team, he has done so in the last 2 weeks, correct? Because neither you nor anyone else was on here saying that he lost the team when they were 6-3 after the 49er game. So the team listened to him for the first 9 weeks and then tuned him out during the last 2? What is it that you think happened during the last 2 weeks to cause this to happen????</P>


</P>


</P>


I wouldn't say it was the last two weeks at all. I think when the chips are down, this coach has shown an inability to get these guys prepared and motivated. Don't get me wrong, I think TC is a good coach and has been a good Giant, but his ability to get the most out of these players is lost.And thepredictable late season collapses demonstrates this. It has to do with a lot of factors.One being that he has a bizaare loyalty to his assistants. He essentially had to be threatened by ownership to fire both Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan. I also think the players in general have a distaste for TC as a person. I really think they don't respect him as a modern coach. Thats not the end of the world of course, but when it comes right down to it, they will not go the extra mile for their coach. They may for their own jobs, but that extra motivation is lacking. And we saw what can happen with Ray Handley when a coach can't motivate his players.</P>


Too many players popping off about his style. And I'm talking about players while they are on the team.</P>


</P>


I'm willing to wait until after these next 5 games are played to decide TC's fate. If they go 5-0, I'll be in favor of him staying. If they go 0-5 I'll be in favor of him leaving.</P>


To me TC's biggest fault during his tenure has been his hiring of assistants. How many assistants that he has hired have to turn out to be failures before he is swept out with them???</P>


I disagree that the players don't respect TC. I think that they respect him as a man and a coach, but I don't think they love him to the point that they would run through a wall for him. </P>


</P>


</P>


I think they probably respect him for his football knowledge. But I also think they look at him as out of touch. He also has a rep for treating his players like children and I'm sure they don't respect that.</P>


</P>

MikeV
12-01-2011, 01:56 PM
n each of Coughlin’s eight seasons, the Giants have had a worse record over the last eight games than over the first eight games. In fact, they are 47-17 (73.4%) in the first half and just 24-35 (40.7%) in the second half.

gumby742
12-01-2011, 02:09 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>

burier
12-01-2011, 02:11 PM
If its not couglins fault its JRs fault. one or the other.

gumby742
12-01-2011, 02:12 PM
as i've heard a number of former coaches say, sometimes you don't get replaced by someone better than you.</P>


sometimes just being someone different is all a team is looking for.</P>


by reputation among other coaches alone, coughlin is an unbelievable head coach. you can't have his record without being really good at what you do.</P>


but the time has probably come to see what someone else can do with this roster, for no other reason that it lets you know how much of this issue is coachingor how much of this issue is your roster.</P>


it also means your GM no longer has any cover anymore either (ie: "i didn't hire this guy").</P>


So everyone gets a little more uncomfortable with a change, which i consider a good thing.</P>


</P>


My thoughts exactly. It's not that TC is a bad coach. He's really really good. It's just his time here is over. Time for a change.</P>


Pat Riley said it best when he left the Knicks. Something along the lines of "You can have success with your team, but sometimes you still have to realize you're still holding them back - even with success. They begin to tune you out after a while."</P>

gumby742
12-01-2011, 02:17 PM
If its not couglins fault its JRs fault. one or the other.</P>


Want to blame the failings of the offense on JR? Fine. Our oline is in tatters. His hands were strapped with the cap (which btw, NO ONE knew what the new figure was going to be). Had he gone out and said, this year would be a rebuilding year due to the cap, I think expectations would have been tempered.</P>


Explain our defense. That falls on Coughlin and his coaching staff.</P>


What about team consistency? Coughlin. </P>


What about both offense and defense showing up in the same game for once? Coughlin.</P>


What about second half collapses? Coughlin.</P>


The difference between the failings of the two are the where JR fails, all GM fail. Want to complain about LBers? Well, be glad that LBer is the only hole on defense that we have. Compare our defensive personnel to those of other teams. Try it. </P>


In comparison, Coughlin's pitfalls are not common across all coaches.</P>

Dwinsballgames
12-01-2011, 02:24 PM
as i've heard a number of former coaches say, sometimes you don't get replaced by someone better than you.</P>


sometimes just being someone different is all a team is looking for.</P>


by reputation among other coaches alone, coughlin is an unbelievable head coach. you can't have his record without being really good at what you do.</P>


but the time has probably come to see what someone else can do with this roster, for no other reason that it lets you know how much of this issue is coachingor how much of this issue is your roster.</P>


it also means your GM no longer has any cover anymore either (ie: "i didn't hire this guy").</P>


So everyone gets a little more uncomfortable with a change, which i consider a good thing.</P>


</P>


My thoughts exactly. It's not that TC is a bad coach. He's really really good. It's just his time here is over. Time for a change.</P>


Pat Riley said it best when he left the Knicks. Something along the lines of "You can have success with your team, but sometimes you still have to realize you're still holding them back - even with success. They begin to tune you out after a while."</P>


</P>


How'd that one turn out for the Nicks?</P>

HilliardFan16
12-01-2011, 02:26 PM
Every single season under Tom Coughlin has started with 6-1, 6-2 or better, and only three seasons have ended with playoff berths... And only one of those seasons resulted in a playoff win.

In the past three seasons, we haven't competed late in the season against any legit NFL team. We've gotten blown out in pitiful, pathetic losses highlighted by gutless play.

Enough said.

yatitle
12-01-2011, 02:27 PM
Coughlin's the one who said that injuries are mostly mental, inferring he would fix fassel's mistakes in that regard. Good call on that one Tom. During TC's tenure this team has always peaked at the wrong time of the season. John madden always stressed that was important to start peaking just after thanksgiving, and that just hasn't been the case. <FONT size=5>It sounds asinine to say, but '07 is looking more and more like an anomaly</FONT>.</P>


how is that asinine at all?</P>


other than our collective pride as fans, what evidence do what have that 07 was anything more than catching lightening in a bottle once?</P>


</P>


What evidence? How about 11-1 and steamrolling towards another Lomabardi until that nitwit Burress pointed a gun at his junk in his sweatpants.</P>

Morehead State
12-01-2011, 02:32 PM
Coughlin's the one who said that injuries are mostly mental, inferring he would fix fassel's mistakes in that regard. Good call on that one Tom. During TC's tenure this team has always peaked at the wrong time of the season. John madden always stressed that was important to start peaking just after thanksgiving, and that just hasn't been the case. <FONT size=5>It sounds asinine to say, but '07 is looking more and more like an anomaly</FONT>.</P>


how is that asinine at all?</P>


other than our collective pride as fans, what evidence do what have that 07 was anything more than catching lightening in a bottle once?</P>


</P>


What evidence? How about 11-1 and steamrolling towards another Lomabardi until that nitwit Burress pointed a gun at his junk in his sweatpants.</P>


</P>


So you are saying that the loss of one WR, having a mediocre season at best, changed the entire team. It caused us to go 1-3 down the stretch?</P>


I guess our HC is worse than we thought. No decent coach would allow the loss of one player to impact the team like that.</P>

BlueBlooded1979
12-01-2011, 02:34 PM
If its not couglins fault its JRs fault. one or the other.</P>


Want to blame the failings of the offense on JR?* Fine.* Our oline is in tatters.* His hands were strapped with the cap (which btw, NO ONE knew what the new figure was going to be).* Had he gone out and said, this year would be a rebuilding year due to the cap, I think expectations would have been tempered.</P>


Explain our defense.* That falls on Coughlin and his coaching staff.</P>


What about team consistency?* Coughlin.* </P>


What about both offense and defense showing up in the same game for once?* Coughlin.</P>


What about second half collapses?* Coughlin.</P>


The difference between the failings of the two are the where JR fails, all GM fail.* Want to complain about LBers?* Well, be glad that LBer is the only hole on defense that we have.* Compare our defensive personnel to those of other teams.* Try it.*** </P>


In comparison, Coughlin's pitfalls are not common across all coaches.</P>

JR is hugely at fault for this personnel mess. Between 2009 and 2010 every team was uncapped and cleaned up all of their garbage contracts and extended core players. They used large roster bonuses to take a cap hit in the uncapped year and have room for the uncertainty in the future. This team did very little. They could have easily extended guys like Boss, Smith, Thomas, Osi Kiwi Coefield and add quality depth.

Look at the contracts Green Bay doled out that offseason. I think they resigned their entire secondary.

GMENAGAIN
12-01-2011, 02:41 PM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... &amp; that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans &amp; schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE &amp; WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.
</P>


Well if you go by Tom Coughlins original quote when he took the job...yes the injuries are his fault. He essentially blame Fassell for the injuries they had when he was the coach.</P>


That aside...Every team has injuries. In our case, the most important position..QB, has suffered no injuries in his entire tenure here. How many other teams can say that. Almost none. What would happen to us if David Carr had to start? A lot worse than other team who are on their 2nd or 3rd QB's. Lets hope we don't have to find out because TC has this team ill prepared for that.</P>


Its also true that our secondary as it is right now, is full of nothing but 1st ans 2nd round picks. Our D line, essentially the same. The only real problem is at LB, and we have terrible depth. and/or the backups are poorly coached.</P>


TC has lost this team. they have tuned him out. And his history backs this up. His last 3 seasons at JAX were losing ones. He's an acquired taste as a HC, and our players have lost their appetite for this regime.</P>


Our "disciplinarian" coach with a team that plays with no discipline.</P>


</P>


</P>


That rant against injuries that TC made when he took the job was just silly. Dumbest thing that he has said since he's been here.</P>


So if TC has lost this team, he has done so in the last 2 weeks, correct? Because neither you nor anyone else was on here saying that he lost the team when they were 6-3 after the 49er game. So the team listened to him for the first 9 weeks and then tuned him out during the last 2? What is it that you think happened during the last 2 weeks to cause this to happen????</P>


</P>


</P>


I wouldn't say it was the last two weeks at all. I think when the chips are down, this coach has shown an inability to get these guys prepared and motivated. Don't get me wrong, I think TC is a good coach and has been a good Giant, but his ability to get the most out of these players is lost.And thepredictable late season collapses demonstrates this. It has to do with a lot of factors.One being that he has a bizaare loyalty to his assistants. He essentially had to be threatened by ownership to fire both Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan. I also think the players in general have a distaste for TC as a person. I really think they don't respect him as a modern coach. Thats not the end of the world of course, but when it comes right down to it, they will not go the extra mile for their coach. They may for their own jobs, but that extra motivation is lacking. And we saw what can happen with Ray Handley when a coach can't motivate his players.</P>


Too many players popping off about his style. And I'm talking about players while they are on the team.</P>


</P>


I'm willing to wait until after these next 5 games are played to decide TC's fate. If they go 5-0, I'll be in favor of him staying. If they go 0-5 I'll be in favor of him leaving.</P>


To me TC's biggest fault during his tenure has been his hiring of assistants. How many assistants that he has hired have to turn out to be failures before he is swept out with them???</P>


I disagree that the players don't respect TC. I think that they respect him as a man and a coach, but I don't think they love him to the point that they would run through a wall for him. </P>


</P>


</P>


I think they probably respect him for his football knowledge. But I also think they look at him as out of touch. <FONT size=4>He also has a rep for treating his players like children and I'm sure they don't respect that.</FONT></P>


<FONT size=4></FONT></P>


</P>


Stop listening to Tiki . . . . . </P>

burier
12-01-2011, 02:42 PM
If its not couglins fault its JRs fault. one or the other.</P>


Want to blame the failings of the offense on JR?* Fine.* Our oline is in tatters.* His hands were strapped with the cap (which btw, NO ONE knew what the new figure was going to be).* Had he gone out and said, this year would be a rebuilding year due to the cap, I think expectations would have been tempered.</P>


Explain our defense.* That falls on Coughlin and his coaching staff.</P>


What about team consistency?* Coughlin.* </P>


What about both offense and defense showing up in the same game for once?* Coughlin.</P>


What about second half collapses?* Coughlin.</P>


The difference between the failings of the two are the where JR fails, all GM fail.* Want to complain about LBers?* Well, be glad that LBer is the only hole on defense that we have.* Compare our defensive personnel to those of other teams.* Try it.*** </P>


In comparison, Coughlin's pitfalls are not common across all coaches.</P>

I think both Jr and Cough are to blame here.

As far as the cap situation..The fact that we didnt know what the cap figure would be suggests that we should have been opperating with caution in case the number was low.

Linebackers have been an issue since the guy has been GM. The only thing hes done to address this issue is move a first round draft choice from his natural position to linebacker? I don't think he gets a pass for that now that we can't stop the run and if we can't even blitz effectively because we have no player at LBer.

"If he said this would be a rebuilding year..."

Well if Ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

In actuality JR said the exact opposite. He said "Don't worry about big sexy moves. The team will contend."

And lets not forget that Eli's not in his second year...he's in his 8th...We don't have forever to get this thing sorted out. We have an elite QB for the first time possibly in our history and we're pissing away his career with personel issues and ridiculous coaching errors.

Not saying its on JR but its on someone...either the coaches or the players and if its on the players its on JR

GMENAGAIN
12-01-2011, 02:43 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>

Tony Bruno
12-01-2011, 02:47 PM
I coach football and here what you hear:

1. When the kids are winning the "players" are great...

2. When we lose its "those coaches dont know what they doing"...

It nature... When you coach kids there is a such thing is out manned our lesser talent... When you coach Pros... Im sorry it more than less coaching...

plaxattack17
12-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Coughlin is seriously underappreciated. People trying to down play the superbowl win are simply ridiculous. Coughlin was the head coach who oversaw probably the greatest upset in superbowl history. Noone can take that away from him let alone Giant fans. People calling it an anomoly, what do you guys expect superbowls every year?
Year after... we probably reach the superbowl again if Plax didn't shoot himself, or is that TC's fault too? U can't blame the first round exit on him that year...our only reciever was being sent to prison.
Some of you guys blaming Coughlin seem to conveniently forget we have a slightly better than mediocre team this year. Its mostly a squad with a lack of depth which is relying on Eli to make miracles happen thats the squad Reese has built. That has alot to do with the injuries, but also as good as JR has been at recruiting talent, he's done a dissapointing job puting together a winning team the last few years, as we consistently have had linebacker problems for years which he hasn't solved. There is only so much Coughlin can do. I honestly fail to see how another coach would make us better than 6-5 at this stage, considering what Coughlin has faced this year. There should be more threads about why Reese has failed to improve this team the last 3years that would go along way to explaining our collapses.

Tony Bruno
12-01-2011, 02:54 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here.* For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other.*** Not just him.* After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing?* I guess he's just cursed right?* No other coaches have had to deal with injury?* </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks.* It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>

14 years

92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance

98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record

01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship...

14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won...

I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....

gumby742
12-01-2011, 03:08 PM
as i've heard a number of former coaches say, sometimes you don't get replaced by someone better than you.</P>


sometimes just being someone different is all a team is looking for.</P>


by reputation among other coaches alone, coughlin is an unbelievable head coach. you can't have his record without being really good at what you do.</P>


but the time has probably come to see what someone else can do with this roster, for no other reason that it lets you know how much of this issue is coachingor how much of this issue is your roster.</P>


it also means your GM no longer has any cover anymore either (ie: "i didn't hire this guy").</P>


So everyone gets a little more uncomfortable with a change, which i consider a good thing.</P>


</P>


My thoughts exactly. It's not that TC is a bad coach. He's really really good. It's just his time here is over. Time for a change.</P>


Pat Riley said it best when he left the Knicks. Something along the lines of "You can have success with your team, but sometimes you still have to realize you're still holding them back - even with success. They begin to tune you out after a while."</P>


</P>


How'd that one turn out for the Nicks?</P>


</P>


Hey. Riley said as much. He would know best. Better then all the naysayers that it's not possible that the players have tuned Coughlin out.</P>

BlueSanta
12-01-2011, 03:09 PM
I love when people try to argue that game losses due to injury are not on the coaches and front office.

Who's job is it to make sure we have good depth? Who's job is it to prepare and develop young players so they they are ready when asked to step up?

Was it not a great credit to the Packers last year that they won the superbowl while having the most players on injured reserve?

Furthermore, lets look at some of our injuries..

- The knock on T2 coming out of college, and the ONLY reason he made it to round 2 was the serious nature of the injury to his knee. Some teams took him off their boards. We drafted him taking a gamble on that knee. You might call it bad luck, but thats like betting the long shot then complaining when he doesnt win.

- AB had double surgery on his ankles last year. I love the guy, but we went to great lengths to sign him over some other free agents who didnt have the cloud of bad feet and ankles looming. Quite a few of those guys are paid less than AB and have produced a lot more this year. Its tough to say they would do so here with our bad Oline, but still.

- Hixon was coming off a bad knee injury and was clearly not ready to be back on the field. Rushing him back may have cost him his career. Sintim also coming off a torn knee was clearly not ready to be back on the field. He also, is likely done in the league.

So, if you are a GM and you draft a guy coming off a serious knee injury, then he reinjures that same knee. Its not just "bad luck."

If you a GM and you resign your primary HB to shoulder most of the load, but he is coming off double foot surgery and he then injures his feet again, its not "bad luck". You should have made sure he has someone there to help him carry the load. BJ, obviously is not that guy and its your job to know that.

If your a GM and you have 2 players coming off serious knee surgeries, and you expect both of these guys to be starters, you best have quality depth behind those guys in case some " not bad luck" strikes again.
</p>


Where is the coach to blame for anything described in your post?</p>


What other free agent RB's should we have signed instead of Bradshaw??</p>

did you even read it? Coaches develop the talent no? When we have a guy go down and his backup is completely incompetent and has no idea where to even line up, doesnt that reflect poorly on the coaches? They do, after all get final say on roster choices. I dont recall seeing Green bay's backup players, who came in for all their injured players last year, seem even remotely lost or hesitant about where they need to be on the field.


As to the Rb situation, 3 free agent Rbs who were paid less than AB have produced more this year (Benson, Bush and Sproles). DeAngelo Williams has also, but he was overpaid. However, my point isnt that we shouldnt have resigned bradshaw, but rather is it fair to sign him and ask him to be our feature back knowing he has foot problems then claim its not our fault when he reinjures his feet. Brandon jacobs, Ab's backup has always had injury problems and we ignored those when we resigned him as well.

gumby742
12-01-2011, 03:11 PM
If its not couglins fault its JRs fault. one or the other.</P>


Want to blame the failings of the offense on JR? Fine. Our oline is in tatters. His hands were strapped with the cap (which btw, NO ONE knew what the new figure was going to be). Had he gone out and said, this year would be a rebuilding year due to the cap, I think expectations would have been tempered.</P>


Explain our defense. That falls on Coughlin and his coaching staff.</P>


What about team consistency? Coughlin. </P>


What about both offense and defense showing up in the same game for once? Coughlin.</P>


What about second half collapses? Coughlin.</P>


The difference between the failings of the two are the where JR fails, all GM fail. Want to complain about LBers? Well, be glad that LBer is the only hole on defense that we have. Compare our defensive personnel to those of other teams. Try it. </P>


In comparison, Coughlin's pitfalls are not common across all coaches.</P>


I think both Jr and Cough are to blame here. As far as the cap situation..The fact that we didnt know what the cap figure would be suggests that we should have been opperating with caution in case the number was low. Linebackers have been an issue since the guy has been GM. The only thing hes done to address this issue is move a first round draft choice from his natural position to linebacker? I don't think he gets a pass for that now that we can't stop the run and if we can't even blitz effectively because we have no player at LBer. "If he said this would be a rebuilding year..." Well if Ifs and buts were candy and nuts... In actuality JR said the exact opposite. He said "Don't worry about big sexy moves. The team will contend." And lets not forget that Eli's not in his second year...he's in his 8th...We don't have forever to get this thing sorted out. We have an elite QB for the first time possibly in our history and we're pissing away his career with personel issues and ridiculous coaching errors. Not saying its on JR but its on someone...either the coaches or the players and if its on the players its on JR</P>


You bring up LBer again. Name me a team with no holes. Also give me a list of teams that have more collective individual talent then we do. Lber isn't the reason why we're not winning games. The fact that both the offense and defense refuse to show up at the same time to any given game is.</P>

gumby742
12-01-2011, 03:12 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</P>


saved me a post. actually i just did ..but whatever. what you said.</P>

burier
12-01-2011, 03:43 PM
If its not couglins fault its JRs fault. one or the other.</P>


Want to blame the failings of the offense on JR?* Fine.* Our oline is in tatters.* His hands were strapped with the cap (which btw, NO ONE knew what the new figure was going to be).* Had he gone out and said, this year would be a rebuilding year due to the cap, I think expectations would have been tempered.</P>


Explain our defense.* That falls on Coughlin and his coaching staff.</P>


What about team consistency?* Coughlin.* </P>


What about both offense and defense showing up in the same game for once?* Coughlin.</P>


What about second half collapses?* Coughlin.</P>


The difference between the failings of the two are the where JR fails, all GM fail.* Want to complain about LBers?* Well, be glad that LBer is the only hole on defense that we have.* Compare our defensive personnel to those of other teams.* Try it.*** </P>


In comparison, Coughlin's pitfalls are not common across all coaches.</P>


I think both Jr and Cough are to blame here. As far as the cap situation..The fact that we didnt know what the cap figure would be suggests that we should have been opperating with caution in case the number was low. Linebackers have been an issue since the guy has been GM. The only thing hes done to address this issue is move a first round draft choice from his natural position to linebacker? I don't think he gets a pass for that now that we can't stop the run and if we can't even blitz effectively because we have no player at LBer. "If he said this would be a rebuilding year..." Well if Ifs and buts were candy and nuts... In actuality JR said the exact opposite. He said "Don't worry about big sexy moves. The team will contend." And lets not forget that Eli's not in his second year...he's in his 8th...We don't have forever to get this thing sorted out. We have an elite QB for the first time possibly in our history and we're pissing away his career with personel issues and ridiculous coaching errors. Not saying its on JR but its on someone...either the coaches or the players and if its on the players its on JR</P>


You bring up LBer again.* Name me a team with no holes.* Also give me a list of teams that have more collective individual talent then we do.* Lber isn't the reason why we're not winning games.* The fact that both the offense and defense refuse to show up at the same time to any given game is.</P>

I'll show you a team without holes as soon as you show me a team that makes very little if any effort to fill those holes.

Its like you're saying "Well D-line is basically good...The Secondary is basically good so I guess its ok if our linebackers suck"

You talk about not showing up...well yes.. that's on the coach...I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

Tony Bruno
12-01-2011, 03:46 PM
If its not couglins fault its JRs fault. one or the other.</P>


Want to blame the failings of the offense on JR?* Fine.* Our oline is in tatters.* His hands were strapped with the cap (which btw, NO ONE knew what the new figure was going to be).* Had he gone out and said, this year would be a rebuilding year due to the cap, I think expectations would have been tempered.</P>


Explain our defense.* That falls on Coughlin and his coaching staff.</P>


What about team consistency?* Coughlin.* </P>


What about both offense and defense showing up in the same game for once?* Coughlin.</P>


What about second half collapses?* Coughlin.</P>


The difference between the failings of the two are the where JR fails, all GM fail.* Want to complain about LBers?* Well, be glad that LBer is the only hole on defense that we have.* Compare our defensive personnel to those of other teams.* Try it.*** </P>


In comparison, Coughlin's pitfalls are not common across all coaches.</P>


I think both Jr and Cough are to blame here. As far as the cap situation..The fact that we didnt know what the cap figure would be suggests that we should have been opperating with caution in case the number was low. Linebackers have been an issue since the guy has been GM. The only thing hes done to address this issue is move a first round draft choice from his natural position to linebacker? I don't think he gets a pass for that now that we can't stop the run and if we can't even blitz effectively because we have no player at LBer. "If he said this would be a rebuilding year..." Well if Ifs and buts were candy and nuts... In actuality JR said the exact opposite. He said "Don't worry about big sexy moves. The team will contend." And lets not forget that Eli's not in his second year...he's in his 8th...We don't have forever to get this thing sorted out. We have an elite QB for the first time possibly in our history and we're pissing away his career with personel issues and ridiculous coaching errors. Not saying its on JR but its on someone...either the coaches or the players and if its on the players its on JR</P>


You bring up LBer again.* Name me a team with no holes.* Also give me a list of teams that have more collective individual talent then we do.* Lber isn't the reason why we're not winning games.* The fact that both the offense and defense refuse to show up at the same time to any given game is.</P>

I like how our ST gets a pass... I cant remember the last time we ran a punt or kickoff back... Kickoff I can see this year... But we have given up more points from out ST than they have scored..

plaxattack17
12-01-2011, 04:29 PM
I'd like someone explain to me why Reese isn't getting more heat. People are ready to line Coughlin up to a firing squad yet all Brees had to do was find away of exploiting two hugely overmatched 6th round picks at LB and a mis-placed DE in Kiwi and someone undrafted that was our linebackers, and at cornerback Ross....and you guys wonder why we conceded 49points! We were completely overmatched due to lack of talent and injuries.
And on offense we average less than 3yards per carry because we have the worst blocking in the league and no depth behind a very injuryprone Bradshaw. All this bar the injuries is on JR...the lack of depth and frankly lack of talent Coughlin has had to work with at times this year is remarkable and we have a winning record still.
What angers me the most is not that Coughlin will carry the can eventually, its the fact the organisation is wasting Eli Manning. We're wasting his best years by not fixing weaknesses, whether it be coaching or personnel. Especially personnel.

gumby742
12-01-2011, 04:31 PM
If its not couglins fault its JRs fault. one or the other.</P>


Want to blame the failings of the offense on JR? Fine. Our oline is in tatters. His hands were strapped with the cap (which btw, NO ONE knew what the new figure was going to be). Had he gone out and said, this year would be a rebuilding year due to the cap, I think expectations would have been tempered.</P>


Explain our defense. That falls on Coughlin and his coaching staff.</P>


What about team consistency? Coughlin. </P>


What about both offense and defense showing up in the same game for once? Coughlin.</P>


What about second half collapses? Coughlin.</P>


The difference between the failings of the two are the where JR fails, all GM fail. Want to complain about LBers? Well, be glad that LBer is the only hole on defense that we have. Compare our defensive personnel to those of other teams. Try it. </P>


In comparison, Coughlin's pitfalls are not common across all coaches.</P>


I think both Jr and Cough are to blame here. As far as the cap situation..The fact that we didnt know what the cap figure would be suggests that we should have been opperating with caution in case the number was low. Linebackers have been an issue since the guy has been GM. The only thing hes done to address this issue is move a first round draft choice from his natural position to linebacker? I don't think he gets a pass for that now that we can't stop the run and if we can't even blitz effectively because we have no player at LBer. "If he said this would be a rebuilding year..." Well if Ifs and buts were candy and nuts... In actuality JR said the exact opposite. He said "Don't worry about big sexy moves. The team will contend." And lets not forget that Eli's not in his second year...he's in his 8th...We don't have forever to get this thing sorted out. We have an elite QB for the first time possibly in our history and we're pissing away his career with personel issues and ridiculous coaching errors. Not saying its on JR but its on someone...either the coaches or the players and if its on the players its on JR</P>


You bring up LBer again. Name me a team with no holes. Also give me a list of teams that have more collective individual talent then we do. Lber isn't the reason why we're not winning games. The fact that both the offense and defense refuse to show up at the same time to any given game is.</P>


I'll show you a team without holes as soon as you show me a team that makes very little if any effort to fill those holes. Its like you're saying "Well D-line is basically good...The Secondary is basically good so I guess its ok if our linebackers suck" You talk about not showing up...well yes.. that's on the coach...I think there's plenty of blame to go around.</P>


Hard to fill holes when you don't have that many to begin with. And yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If your secondary and dline is good, it's ok to have your LBers be average because THERE ISN'T ENOUGH MONEY TO GO AROUND. Got it? For the nth time, THIS ISN'T MADDEN.</P>


Here are some examples. The Pats have the worst pass defense in the league. Yet, they let Brandon Meriweather go. They've done nothing to make it any better. A couple years ago, the Pats traded Seymour to the Raiders for a first round pick. They ended up losing in the post season to the Jets. Seymour sure would have helped. What did they do to address it? Nothing.</P>


The Steelers are getting really old on defense. They've done nothing to get younger. The Steelers have a poor offensive line. They've done nothing to get better. The Steelers are already thin in the secondary. They needed to resign Clark, but did nothing else. Instead of going out and getting a proper d-coordinator, the eagles promoted their oline coach. The eagles were thin at LBer. Instead of starting Casey Matthews, they could have spent their money to get a free agent Lber - instead of Smith and god knows who else. The Jets lost Braylon AND Cotchery and did nothing to replace them. Sign a WR who is fresh out of prison? Who the heck do the Pats have at WR?</P>


The Rams are terrible in all facets. What did they do to get better? Lots of teams defenses are average in ALL facets. Saints, Packers, Patriots, etc all have suspect defenses. What did they do get better?</P>


I can go on and on and on and on.</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-01-2011, 05:24 PM
I love when people try to argue that game losses due to injury are not on the coaches and front office.

Who's job is it to make sure we have good depth? Who's job is it to prepare and develop young players so they they are ready when asked to step up?

Was it not a great credit to the Packers last year that they won the superbowl while having the most players on injured reserve?

Furthermore, lets look at some of our injuries..

- The knock on T2 coming out of college, and the ONLY reason he made it to round 2 was the serious nature of the injury to his knee. Some teams took him off their boards. We drafted him taking a gamble on that knee. You might call it bad luck, but thats like betting the long shot then complaining when he doesnt win.

- AB had double surgery on his ankles last year. I love the guy, but we went to great lengths to sign him over some other free agents who didnt have the cloud of bad feet and ankles looming. Quite a few of those guys are paid less than AB and have produced a lot more this year. Its tough to say they would do so here with our bad Oline, but still.

- Hixon was coming off a bad knee injury and was clearly not ready to be back on the field. Rushing him back may have cost him his career. Sintim also coming off a torn knee was clearly not ready to be back on the field. He also, is likely done in the league.

So, if you are a GM and you draft a guy coming off a serious knee injury, then he reinjures that same knee. Its not just "bad luck."

If you a GM and you resign your primary HB to shoulder most of the load, but he is coming off double foot surgery and he then injures his feet again, its not "bad luck". You should have made sure he has someone there to help him carry the load. BJ, obviously is not that guy and its your job to know that.

If your a GM and you have 2 players coming off serious knee surgeries, and you expect both of these guys to be starters, you best have quality depth behind those guys in case some " not bad luck" strikes again.
</P>


Where is the coach to blame for anything described in your post?</P>


What other free agent RB's should we have signed instead of Bradshaw??</P>




did you even read it? Coaches develop the talent no? When we have a guy go down and his backup is completely incompetent and has no idea where to even line up, doesnt that reflect poorly on the coaches? They do, after all get final say on roster choices. I dont recall seeing Green bay's backup players, who came in for all their injured players last year, seem even remotely lost or hesitant about where they need to be on the field.


As to the Rb situation, 3 free agent Rbs who were paid less than AB have produced more this year (Benson, Bush and Sproles). DeAngelo Williams has also, but he was overpaid. However, my point isnt that we shouldnt have resigned bradshaw, but rather is it fair to sign him and ask him to be our feature back knowing he has foot problems then claim its not our fault when he reinjures his feet. Brandon jacobs, Ab's backup has always had injury problems and we ignored those when we resigned him as well.
</P>


The point isthat the coach's ability to develop talent depends entirely on the talent he is given. For instance, no amount of coaching can turn you or I into a starting player for the Giants. The coach can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.</P>


Reggie Bush was traded to the Dolphins. He was not a FA.</P>


Were you on here calling for us to sign Benson, Williams or Sproles instead of Bradshaw before the season started????I'm guessing not.</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-01-2011, 05:27 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</P>


So you wouldn't have firedCowher after the 2000 season because he made 4 playoff appearances and won a SB<U> after</U>2000 . . . . . ok, that makes a lot of sense . . . . </P>

Morehead State
12-01-2011, 05:57 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</P>


So you wouldn't have firedCowher after the 2000 season because he made 4 playoff appearances and won a SB<U> after</U>2000 . . . . . ok, that makes a lot of sense . . . . </P>


</P>


Were his players still playing hard and was he getting the most out of them?</P>


That should be the question. Can we honestly say either is true with TC now? Could we say that after the two horrible losses at the end of 09?</P>


No to both as far as I'm concerned.</P>

SweetZombieJesus
12-01-2011, 06:14 PM
5-2 start every year. Collapse every year.

Inexplicable eggs in opening round of playoffs 2005, 2006, 2008.

Collapse and miss the playoffs 2004, 2009, 2010, 2011*

Sleepwalking in big games with playoffs on the line.

28-40 in Nov/Dec.

Virtually every spot on the roster has turned over several times since 2004, but the result is the same.

<font size="6">Case closed.</font>

SweetZombieJesus
12-01-2011, 06:44 PM
So if TC has lost this team, he has done so in the last 2 weeks, correct? Because neither you nor anyone else was on here saying that he lost the team when they were 6-3 after the 49er game. So the team listened to him for the first 9 weeks and then tuned him out during the last 2? What is it that you think happened during the last 2 weeks to cause this to happen????</p>That's the big mystery. I don't think Coughlin himself understands it. It just always happens. But nobody can give us an answer.

I think most of the players WANT it to work, but it just doesn't. When the going is easy, they delude themselves into thinking it's working. When it gets tough, they just don't have any answers. Coughlin doesn't, the rest of the coaches don't, the players don't.

FBomb
12-01-2011, 06:45 PM
5-2 start every year. Collapse every year.

Inexplicable eggs in opening round of playoffs 2005, 2006, 2008.

Collapse and miss the playoffs 2004, 2009, 2010, 2011*

Sleepwalking in big games with playoffs on the line.

28-40 in Nov/Dec.

Virtually every spot on the roster has turned over several times since 2004, but the result is the same.

<FONT size=6>Case closed.</FONT>
</P>


Thus endeth the thread.</P>

JMFP2
12-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Yes, I'm now convinced.

The Giants will NEVER win a Super Bowl under Coughlin.

Martin
12-01-2011, 07:20 PM
5-2 start every year.* Collapse every year.

Inexplicable eggs in opening round of playoffs 2005, 2006, 2008.

Collapse and miss the playoffs 2004, 2009, 2010, 2011*

Sleepwalking in big games with playoffs on the line.

28-40 in Nov/Dec.

Virtually every spot on the roster has turned over several times since 2004, but the result is the same.

<font size="6">Case closed.</font>


undenieable proof!

And when you see it in black and white as you
presented it really looks soooo ugly!

GMENAGAIN
12-01-2011, 09:28 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here.* For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other.*** Not just him.* After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing?* I guess he's just cursed right?* No other coaches have had to deal with injury?* </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks.* It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</P>


So you wouldn't have fired*Cowher after the 2000 season because he made 4 playoff appearances and won a SB<U> after</U>*2000 . . . . . ok, that makes a lot of sense . . . . *</P>


</P>


Were his players still playing hard and was he getting the most out of them?</P>


That should be the question.* Can we honestly say either is true with TC now?* Could we say that after the two horrible losses at the end of 09?</P>


No to both as far as I'm concerned.</P>

The Steelers fans were wild to throw Cowher out back then . . . but the team stuck with him.

Are you telling me that there are 6-10/7-9 teams out there where the fans are happy because they think the players are playing hard???. C-mon . . . . . you know how it works. If the team wins, the coach is great and the locker room is great. If the team loses, the coach has "lost the team" and there are problems in the locker room.

You guys would have thrown Cowher out after the 2000 season and you would have been wrong.

JMFP2
12-01-2011, 10:14 PM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1.

I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year.

This team went 10-6 last year.

We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot.

Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans.

Boo ****ing hoo.

Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently.

If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction.

Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team.

Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division.

Enough with this soap opera bull****.

Scarcro
12-01-2011, 10:16 PM
If the team doesn't put forth a competitive effort this week, then I would say that Coughlin will probably lose his job at the end of the season. I like the guy, but it does appear to be time for a change. Maybe he is doing the best he can with what he is given, but the inconsistency of this team falls squarely on his shoulders. There is no reason that we should lose to the Seahawks at home, beat the Patriots and then lose to the Eagles with Vince Young at the helm.

FBomb
12-01-2011, 11:04 PM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****.</P>


Yes, just keep spouting our record and how we are still in the hunt if it makes you feel better. I understand the difficulty in not wanting to believe that this team is finished and so is the coaching staff. </P>

Gianthunter
12-01-2011, 11:08 PM
It's all under the glaring public eye. Second year in a row the defense has flat out quit. It ain't coachin no more

Martin
12-01-2011, 11:45 PM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1.

I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year.

This team went 10-6 last year.

We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot.

Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans.

Boo ****ing hoo.

Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently.

If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction.

Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team.

Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division.

Enough with this soap opera bull****.

Coughlin's 2nd half record for the Giants is terrible. Painfully.

Its not losing some games thats the issue.
Its how you lose and the lack of consistancy
that happens during the 2nd half of each season.

The facts speak for themselves and after years of
this someone has to be accountable.

Now Joe if your okay with this great BUT not me.
Yes I understand Coughlin is a good coach but if TC is not accountable then jerry reese and the owners have to be.

Again facts are facts and 2nd half colapses are
as consistant as you taking your morning tinkle.

It happens every year under TC and Jerry Reese.

Its not a soap opera as you say its how they
lose and the lack of consistancy that is the issue.

Jerry Reese and the owners put together
a teaser team. 1 year in 2007 the football gods
threw us a bone. Sorry Joe I'm not buying
what your selling.

JMFP2
12-02-2011, 01:01 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****. Coughlin's 2nd half record for the Giants is terrible. Painfully. Its not losing some games thats the issue. Its how you lose and the lack of consistancy that happens during the 2nd half of each season. The facts speak for themselves and after years of this someone has to be accountable. Now Joe if your okay with this great BUT not me. Yes I understand Coughlin is a good coach but if TC is not accountable then jerry reese and the owners have to be. Again facts are facts and 2nd half colapses are as consistant as you taking your morning tinkle. It happens every year under TC and Jerry Reese. Its not a soap opera as you say its how they lose and the lack of consistancy that is the issue. Jerry Reese and the owners put together a teaser team. 1 year in 2007 the football gods threw us a bone. Sorry Joe I'm not buying what your selling.</P>


Some Giants fans over at sportswrath were talking about the strength of schedule in the 1st half v. 2nd half of the season. This information was pulled fromone of the posters over there, and I think it is very interesting.....</P>


</P>


2005: 461--.523 5-3 12% increase....this was also the season our LB unit was literally wiped out....we had guys coming off the street to play LB.</P>


2006: .484--.555 2-6 13% increase....that was the season the DE's were hit. Also the Tim Lewis/Hufnagel era.</P>


2007: .446--.586 4-4 24% increase (this was the season when Gilbride called53 passes in 40+ mph winds v. the Redskins; 2 of the other losses were to the Patriots and #1 NFC Seed Cowboys).</P>


2008: .395--.610 5-3 35% increase (and the team was sailing until Plaxico shooting).</P>


2009: .477--.594 3-5 19% increase (Sheridan, CC Brown, and no defense; I think this was the year Tuck had cheap-shot injury)</P>


2010: .422--.484 4-4 13% increase (2010 was the WR Plague).</P><FONT color=#000080>


2005-2010 Totals: 447--.558 23-25 19% increase</P><FONT color=#000000>


So, according to these stats, the strength of schedule jumps over 100 points from the 1st to the 2nd half of the season, on average.</P></FONT>


<FONT color=#000000>And this season is worse than usual....</FONT></P>


</FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>2011: .384--.623 0-3 38% so far;the toughest 2nd half schedule in the NFL according to everything I've heard (and this year's injury plague is the Great CB Pox).</FONT></P>


Every season seems to follow a similar script....the 2nd half challenge ramps up, and usually coincides with a rash of injuries that seem to concentrate on one specific position.</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 07:18 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1.

I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year.

This team went 10-6 last year.

We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot.

Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans.

Boo ****ing hoo.

Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently.

If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction.

Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team.

Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division.

Enough with this soap opera bull****.

Part of the decision as to whether or not TC should be fired is an evaluation of whether or not there is another coach out there who would do a better job.

There are posters on this board who have actually started threads that we shoul replace TC with Tont Sparano . . .. lol . . . or Romeo Crenel. People are not thinking rationally . . . . . . .

gumby742
12-02-2011, 09:41 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****. Part of the decision as to whether or not TC should be fired is an evaluation of whether or not there is another coach out there who would do a better job. There are posters on this board who have actually started threads that we shoul replace TC with Tont Sparano . . .. lol . . . or Romeo Crenel. People are not thinking rationally . . . . . . .</P>


What makes any of those coaches better or worse then TC in your book? For every coaches failing there is always a reason. Especially the reasons that Coughlin defenders use ....</P>


Sparano has his group playing hard. He has no talent. He's had to deal with injury.</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 10:21 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****. Part of the decision as to whether or not TC should be fired is an evaluation of whether or not there is another coach out there who would do a better job. There are posters on this board who have actually started threads that we shoul replace TC with Tont Sparano . . .. lol . . . or Romeo Crenel. People are not thinking rationally . . . . . . .</P>


What makes any of those coaches better or worse then TC in your book? For every coaches failing there is always a reason. Especially the reasons that Coughlin defenders use ....</P>


Sparano has his group playing hard. He has no talent. He's had to deal with injury.</P>


</P>


Ha ha . . . are you going on record as saying that you would be ok with Sparano replacing TC? </P>


That move would make us the laughing stock of the entire sports world.</P>


</P>

SweetZombieJesus
12-02-2011, 10:34 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1.

I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year.

This team went 10-6 last year.

We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot.

Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans.

Boo ****ing hoo.

Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently.

Since you seem to be one of those Yankee - Giants fans, you should remember why Joe Torre lost his job. Inexplicable early exits from the playoffs and showing up small in big games. Sound familiar?

Joe was given several six more chances after the 2001 meltdown -- even got to the World Series again (and lost in embarrassing fashion, I remember the Marlins celebrating in Yankee Stadium and desecrating Monument Park) sound familiar, like the way the Giants have repeatedly been disrespected in their own house? Two years after parting ways with Joe the Yankees won a World Series again.

The most unforgivable of Torre's sins would be having the Red Sox down 3-0 in the ALCS in 2004 -- and then losing 4 games straight. And nobody could answer why. Sounds an AWFUL LOT like having the Eagles down by 24 points with 7:30 left in the game and the NFC East crown at stake -- arch rivals on the ropes with advancement in the playoffs on the line, and a meltdown for the ages, in fact the worst meltdown in franchise history, and NOBODY CAN GIVE AN ANSWER WHY IT HAPPENED. No answers for the HEARTLESS, GUTLESS, SLEEPWALKING performances from either man.

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO GO TO THE YANKEES-GIANTS ANALOGY? BECAUSE IT PROVES MY POINT.

All the same things that were said about keeping Joe Torre are being said about keeping Tom Coughlin. They lived off past glory (4 WS in 5 years for Torre, 2007 SB for Coughlin). They did well early (great regular season records for Torre, great first half records for Coughlin). They both were great coaches, but something is wrong, there is a fatal flaw that nobody is able to fix.

Then you go to Bill Parcells. He had ONE bad season in 1983 (not counting the 1987 strike season).

Bill Parcells only lost in the opening round of the playoffs once (1989, Flipper Anderson). Think about it, Tom Coughlin has never even won a home playoff game. Pathetic.

daynemustgo
12-02-2011, 10:39 AM
Now unless the players don't like to play for him or play hard for him anymore is another story but none of us can prove that. Sure didn't look like it after that Pats victory... & that's not the vibe or consensus I get from the players.


Every single year we are DECIMATED by injuries.
We have the same terrible game plans & schemes.


This is Coughlin's fault?


If the players in our locker room had even half the HEART, PRIDE & WILL TO WIN as Coughlin we would be 19-0 every year.


Yes. As Head Coach, everything that does or doesn't happen is his responsibility. I dont think I have ever heard Coughlin say anything to the contrary.

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 10:48 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently.

Since you seem to be one of those Yankee - Giants fans, you should remember why Joe Torre lost his job. Inexplicable early exits from the playoffs and showing up small in big games. Sound familiar?

Joe was given several six more chances after the 2001 meltdown -- even got to the World Series again (and lost in embarrassing fashion, sound familiar?). Two years after parting ways with Joe they won a World Series again.

The most unforgivable would be having the Red Sox down 3-0 in the ALCS in 2004 -- and then losing 4 games straight. And nobody could answer why. Sounds an AWFUL LOT like having the Eagles down by 24 points with 7:30 left in the game -- arch rivals on the ropes with advancement in the playoffs on the line, and a meltdown for the ages, and NOBODY CAN GIVE AN ANSWER WHY IT HAPPENED.

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO GO TO THE YANKEES-GIANTS ANALOGY? BECAUSE IT PROVES MY POINT.

All the same things that were said about keeping Joe Torre are being said about keeping Tom Coughlin. They lived off past glory (4 WS in 5 years for Torre, 2007 SB for Coughlin). They did well early (great regular season records for Torre, great first half records for Coughlin). They both were great coaches, but something is wrong, there is a fatal flaw that nobody is able to fix.

Then you go to Bill Parcells. He had ONE bad season in 1983 (not counting the 1987 strike season).

Bill Parcells only lost in the opening round of the playoffs once (1989, Flipper Anderson). Think about it, Tom Coughlin has never even won a home playoff game. Pathetic.
</P>


And the Yankees won after Torre left with the same exact team, right???</P>


</P>

SweetZombieJesus
12-02-2011, 10:50 AM
It happens every year under TC and Jerry Reese.

It happened when Ernie Accorsie, the imgrate, was here too. 2004 they lost 9 of the last 11. 2005 they laid an egg at home in the first round of playoffs against the Panthers, 23-0. 2006 they lost 6 of the last 8 and lost in the first round of the playoffs.

Different GM. Different players. Different owners, even. Same coach.

It should be painfully obvious.

Rusty192
12-02-2011, 10:50 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1.

I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year.

This team went 10-6 last year.

We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot.

Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans.

Boo ****ing hoo.

Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently.

If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction.

Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team.

Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division.

Enough with this soap opera bull****.I agree that NY fans are spoiled because of the Yankees.

But I myself don't give a crap about baseball, nor do I live in New York. And there are many more like me.

The thing is Tom is old, he'll be retiring soon anyway. Then what?

Why not let him go now so we can get a head start in fixing this team. Instead of possibly collapsing again like history has showed us time and time again.

SweetZombieJesus
12-02-2011, 10:51 AM
And the Yankees won after Torre left with the same exact team, right???</p>


</p>


</p>

Doesn't matter, they moved on from something that while good was no longer working.</p>

Exactly what the Giants need to do too.
</p>

gumby742
12-02-2011, 10:59 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****. Part of the decision as to whether or not TC should be fired is an evaluation of whether or not there is another coach out there who would do a better job. There are posters on this board who have actually started threads that we shoul replace TC with Tont Sparano . . .. lol . . . or Romeo Crenel. People are not thinking rationally . . . . . . .</P>


What makes any of those coaches better or worse then TC in your book? For every coaches failing there is always a reason. Especially the reasons that Coughlin defenders use ....</P>


Sparano has his group playing hard. He has no talent. He's had to deal with injury.</P>


</P>


Ha ha . . . are you going on record as saying that you would be ok with Sparano replacing TC? </P>


That move would make us the laughing stock of the entire sports world.</P>


</P>


</P>


I wouldn't be mad. But yeah, I think I'd be ok with it. He took a 1-15 dolphins team and almost took them to the playoffs the next year.</P>


So what's so funny about it?</P>

Tony Bruno
12-02-2011, 01:06 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here.* For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other.*** Not just him.* After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing?* I guess he's just cursed right?* No other coaches have had to deal with injury?* </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks.* It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</P>


So you wouldn't have fired*Cowher after the 2000 season because he made 4 playoff appearances and won a SB<U> after</U>*2000 . . . . . ok, that makes a lot of sense . . . . *</P>

He is a winner thats why... That should make total sense...

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 01:17 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</P>


So you wouldn't have firedCowher after the 2000 season because he made 4 playoff appearances and won a SB<U> after</U>2000 . . . . . ok, that makes a lot of sense . . . . </P>


He is a winner thats why... That should make total sense...</P>


You're not getting the point . . . . . let's move on</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 01:23 PM
And the Yankees won after Torre left with the same exact team, right???</P>


</P>



</P>


Doesn't matter, they moved on from something that while good was no longer working.</P>


Exactly what the Giants need to do too.
</P>


</P>


Doesn't matter that they spent $200M to bring in new FA's after Torre left, and only after those guys were brought in did they win a championship??? Do you think that Torre couldn't have won a championship that year with CC, Tex, etc? </P>


Eh, ok . . . . . </P>


</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 01:25 PM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****. Part of the decision as to whether or not TC should be fired is an evaluation of whether or not there is another coach out there who would do a better job. There are posters on this board who have actually started threads that we shoul replace TC with Tont Sparano . . .. lol . . . or Romeo Crenel. People are not thinking rationally . . . . . . .</P>


What makes any of those coaches better or worse then TC in your book? For every coaches failing there is always a reason. Especially the reasons that Coughlin defenders use ....</P>


Sparano has his group playing hard. He has no talent. He's had to deal with injury.</P>


</P>


Ha ha . . . are you going on record as saying that you would be ok with Sparano replacing TC? </P>


That move would make us the laughing stock of the entire sports world.</P>


</P>


</P>


I wouldn't be mad. But yeah, I think I'd be ok with it. He took a 1-15 dolphins team and almost took them to the playoffs the next year.</P>


So what's so funny about it?</P>


</P>


The fact that you don't see what's funny about it is mind-boggling . . . . . . </P>

JMFP2
12-02-2011, 01:57 PM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****.</P>


Yes, just keep spouting our record and how we are still in the hunt if it makes you feel better. I understand the difficulty in not wanting to believe that this team is finished and so is the coaching staff. </P>


</P>


If I'm wrong about the record, or the current playoff scenarios, let me know. Otherwise, I prefer to remain optimistic about the season. You can doom and gloom it into Christmas if you want.</P>


As for evaluating Coughlin, I can listen to you, or take the opinion of guyslike Belichick andParcells. </P>


That's a pretty easy call from where I stand.</P>

bleedinblue27
12-02-2011, 02:36 PM
Tom steped in in 2005
first season 11-5
2006 - 2-6 the last 8 games
2007 - 4-4 in the last 8 games 6-2 start *SB*
2008 - 11-1 to start and lost 3 of 4 WC lost
2009 - 5-0 start 3-8 to finish
2010 - 6-2 start 4-4 to finish
2011 - 6-2 start............here why Tom Coughlin is coaching his last year in New York!!

JMFP2
12-02-2011, 02:44 PM
This article is a must read in my opinion....</P>


</P>


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/11144/the-annual-pursuit-of-quitting-on-tom-coughlin</P>


</P>



During Coughlin's eight years with the team, they've gone 47-17 during the first half of seasons. That's a .734 winning percentage, roughly equivalent to that of a 12-win team. During the second half, they've gone 24-35, with a .406 winning percentage that serves as the hallmark of something closer to a 6-10 team....If you're looking for a logical reason why, you can point to their strength of schedule. Before this season, during Coughlin's reign, the average Giants opponent during the first eight games of the year had a winning percentage of .448; during the final eight games of the year, the average opponent winning percentage rocketed up to .561. This year, before their win over the Patriots, the Giants started their season with seven games against teams with losing records. The combined record of their eight first-half opponents is an ugly 34-54 (.386 winning percentage). The combined record of their eight second-half opponents is 56-32 (.637). Maybe the Giants aren't giving up at all. It's possible they're just getting overwhelmed by superior teams.</P>

Harooni
12-02-2011, 03:46 PM
TC is a good coach , a little stubborn but good. for once i agree with the knick fan

pino
12-02-2011, 03:58 PM
It's everyone's fault.

But if you don't like the game plan of the coordinators, well, Coughlin is the man that hired and retained them. So in a sense, that would be his fault for keeping Gil and Fewell.

However, it's everyone's fault because there are more than just a few problems with this team. One thing that stands out the most, at least to me, is the fact that our leadership seems invisible on game days. I saw no one moving up and down the sidelines trying to spark a comeback while we got owned by the Saints. I have no doubt when Coughlin said it wasn't an effort thing. It was a PRIDE thing.

yatitle
12-02-2011, 04:04 PM
It's everyone's fault. But if you don't like the game plan of the coordinators, well, Coughlin is the man that hired and retained them. So in a sense, that would be his fault for keeping Gil and Fewell. However, it's everyone's fault because there are more than just a few problems with this team. One thing that stands out the most, at least to me, is the fact that our leadership seems invisible on game days. I saw no one moving up and down the sidelines trying to spark a comeback while we got owned by the Saints. I have no doubt when Coughlin said it wasn't an effort thing. It was a PRIDE thing.</P>


Agree with you. This team has never replaced the leadership void left after Strahan and AP retired. Tuck, Jacobs, Boley none of those guys is comfortable doing that. The only guy capcable of doing it last year was Bullock but being new and his play on the field did not allow for it. Don't see anyone on the roster capable of doing that now.</P>

BlueSanta
12-02-2011, 04:39 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </p>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</p>


</p>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</p>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</p>


So you wouldn't have firedCowher after the 2000 season because he made 4 playoff appearances and won a SB<u> after</u>2000 . . . . . ok, that makes a lot of sense . . . . </p>


He is a winner thats why... That should make total sense...</p>


You're not getting the point . . . . . let's move on</p>


The point isnt made. By 2000 Cowher had won his division 4 times and had 2 wildcards. Way more than TC has had here in NY.

Seriously, in every statistical category Cowher's track record dwarfs TCs. Your digging your own grave if you pursue this argument.

JMFP2
12-02-2011, 04:40 PM
It's everyone's fault.

But if you don't like the game plan of the coordinators, well, Coughlin is the man that hired and retained them. So in a sense, that would be his fault for keeping Gil and Fewell.

However, it's everyone's fault because there are more than just a few problems with this team. One thing that stands out the most, at least to me, is the fact that our leadership seems invisible on game days. I saw no one moving up and down the sidelines trying to spark a comeback while we got owned by the Saints. I have no doubt when Coughlin said it wasn't an effort thing. It was a PRIDE thing.

Great points.

I don't think Coughlin deserves a pass for struggling. Your comments on his OC and DC are spot on.

Frankly, dropping a home game to Seattle was right on the coaching staff, specifically Fewell, for a timid defensive gameplan. And by extension, that goes on Coughlin.

Everyone is responsible for where the Giants are right now. But I don't think Coughlin is the main reason, that's for sure.

gumby742
12-02-2011, 04:56 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</P>


So you wouldn't have firedCowher after the 2000 season because he made 4 playoff appearances and won a SB<U> after</U>2000 . . . . . ok, that makes a lot of sense . . . . </P>


He is a winner thats why... That should make total sense...</P>


You're not getting the point . . . . . let's move on</P>





The point isnt made. By 2000 Cowher had won his division 4 times and had 2 wildcards. Way more than TC has had here in NY.

Seriously, in every statistical category Cowher's track record dwarfs TCs. Your digging your own grave if you pursue this argument.
</P>


And he didn't exactly have a franchise calibre QB until well after.</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 08:16 PM
I don't understand people who can't fathom that there just MIGHT, just MIGHT be something very wrong here. For the majority of his tenure here some here been blaming one thing or the other. Not just him. After what, 8 years, we're still saying the same thing? I guess he's just cursed right? No other coaches have had to deal with injury? </P>


Whoever it is or whatever it is, something stinks. It's unbelievable how people can't acknowledge that fact alone.</P>


</P>


Would you have fired Cowher after the 2000 season if you were the Steelers?</P>


14 years 92-97 6 playoffs w/ a SB appearance 98- 2000 had bad years but still had a proen track record 01- 06 - 4 playoff appearances and a SB championship... 14 years 10 playoff appearances 1 SB lost and 1 SB won... I think if TCs #'s loked like that no one would be complaining....</P>


So you wouldn't have firedCowher after the 2000 season because he made 4 playoff appearances and won a SB<U> after</U>2000 . . . . . ok, that makes a lot of sense . . . . </P>


He is a winner thats why... That should make total sense...</P>


You're not getting the point . . . . . let's move on</P>





The point isnt made. By 2000 Cowher had won his division 4 times and had 2 wildcards. Way more than TC has had here in NY.

Seriously, in every statistical category Cowher's track record dwarfs TCs. Your digging your own grave if you pursue this argument.
</P>


</P>


LOL . . . . 4 division titles and 2 wildcards trump a SB championship against a previoulsy undefeated team??? Eh, ok . . . . . </P>


Cowher had some of the worst playoff losses in NFL history and won a championship solely because of a blown call. Another HC steps right in and wins a championship with the same team.</P>


If Cowher had that same record here, you mouthbreathers would be calling for him to be fired. To deny that is just silly. </P>


If Cowher's so great, let's go get him. I look forward to your posts in 2 years calling for him to be fired . . . . . </P>

Robert21156
12-02-2011, 09:14 PM
Fantastic post from Morehead State! Our players HAVE lost their appetite for playing for Coughlin. Heck, he's 65 years old and the game is played SO differently today that it was back in his prime. And even if we really like him, he's not likely to fire Kildrive or Fewell, so he's got to go.

daynemustgo
12-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Tom steped in in 2005
first season 11-5
2006 - 2-6 the last 8 games
2007 - 4-4 in the last 8 games 6-2 start *SB*
2008 - 11-1 to start and lost 3 of 4 WC lost
2009 - 5-0 start 3-8 to finish
2010 - 6-2 start 4-4 to finish
2011 - 6-2 start............here why Tom Coughlin is coaching his last year in New York!!

First year was 6-10 and then 11-5 in year 2

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 10:08 PM
Fantastic post from Morehead State! Our players HAVE lost their appetite for playing for Coughlin. Heck, he's 65 years old and the game is played SO differently today that it was back in his prime. And even if we really like him, he's not likely to fire Kildrive or Fewell, so he's got to go.

ha ha . . . . he was 61 when we won the SB. Please explain what new innovations have taken place since then that TC is unable to grasp due to his age . . . . .

BlueSanta
12-02-2011, 11:35 PM
I love when people try to argue that game losses due to injury are not on the coaches and front office.

Who's job is it to make sure we have good depth? Who's job is it to prepare and develop young players so they they are ready when asked to step up?

Was it not a great credit to the Packers last year that they won the superbowl while having the most players on injured reserve?

Furthermore, lets look at some of our injuries..

- The knock on T2 coming out of college, and the ONLY reason he made it to round 2 was the serious nature of the injury to his knee. Some teams took him off their boards. We drafted him taking a gamble on that knee. You might call it bad luck, but thats like betting the long shot then complaining when he doesnt win.

- AB had double surgery on his ankles last year. I love the guy, but we went to great lengths to sign him over some other free agents who didnt have the cloud of bad feet and ankles looming. Quite a few of those guys are paid less than AB and have produced a lot more this year. Its tough to say they would do so here with our bad Oline, but still.

- Hixon was coming off a bad knee injury and was clearly not ready to be back on the field. Rushing him back may have cost him his career. Sintim also coming off a torn knee was clearly not ready to be back on the field. He also, is likely done in the league.

So, if you are a GM and you draft a guy coming off a serious knee injury, then he reinjures that same knee. Its not just "bad luck."

If you a GM and you resign your primary HB to shoulder most of the load, but he is coming off double foot surgery and he then injures his feet again, its not "bad luck". You should have made sure he has someone there to help him carry the load. BJ, obviously is not that guy and its your job to know that.

If your a GM and you have 2 players coming off serious knee surgeries, and you expect both of these guys to be starters, you best have quality depth behind those guys in case some " not bad luck" strikes again.
</p>


Where is the coach to blame for anything described in your post?</p>


What other free agent RB's should we have signed instead of Bradshaw??</p>




did you even read it? Coaches develop the talent no? When we have a guy go down and his backup is completely incompetent and has no idea where to even line up, doesnt that reflect poorly on the coaches? They do, after all get final say on roster choices. I dont recall seeing Green bay's backup players, who came in for all their injured players last year, seem even remotely lost or hesitant about where they need to be on the field.


As to the Rb situation, 3 free agent Rbs who were paid less than AB have produced more this year (Benson, Bush and Sproles). DeAngelo Williams has also, but he was overpaid. However, my point isnt that we shouldnt have resigned bradshaw, but rather is it fair to sign him and ask him to be our feature back knowing he has foot problems then claim its not our fault when he reinjures his feet. Brandon jacobs, Ab's backup has always had injury problems and we ignored those when we resigned him as well.
</p>


The point isthat the coach's ability to develop talent depends entirely on the talent he is given. For instance, no amount of coaching can turn you or I into a starting player for the Giants. The coach can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.</p>Knowing where to line up is not a talent issue, its a knowledge issue. Are you actually saying this team hasnt got more talent than their recent late season collapses indicate?








Reggie Bush was traded to the Dolphins. He was not a FA.
</p>

You are right, he was. But he was as good as a free agent since it was
publicly announced he was available for trade. Hell he tweeted he was
not playing in NO anymore prior to the Saints even searching for trade.
</p>



Were you on here calling for us to sign Benson, Williams or Sproles instead of Bradshaw before the season started????I'm guessing not.</p>

Again, reading comprehension. Reread what I said regarding resigning AB.

Ill simplify since your not reading it or understanding it: if you want to resign a guy who is coming off 2 broken ankles that fine, but dont then give him 90% of the carries and then claim its "bad luck" when he breaks his ankles again.

Resigning AB should have spelled the end for BJ, which I DID call for his offseason. BJ, even after taking a pay cut, is still vastly overpaid for his production. He also cannot stay on the field. There is no healthguarantees in the NFL, but we should have pursued a back with a better history of durability. We needed it to help alleviate the burden on AB. If you didnt see my posts last summer regarding this, thats on you, not me.

EJ Blue
12-02-2011, 11:44 PM
Do you really think Coughlin isn't the problem? Do you think we'd be 8-8(no playoffs), 10-6(no playoffs), 6-5(in danger) if Belichick was Coach?

GMENAGAIN
12-02-2011, 11:54 PM
I love when people try to argue that game losses due to injury are not on the coaches and front office.

Who's job is it to make sure we have good depth? Who's job is it to prepare and develop young players so they they are ready when asked to step up?

Was it not a great credit to the Packers last year that they won the superbowl while having the most players on injured reserve?

Furthermore, lets look at some of our injuries..

- The knock on T2 coming out of college, and the ONLY reason he made it to round 2 was the serious nature of the injury to his knee. Some teams took him off their boards. We drafted him taking a gamble on that knee. You might call it bad luck, but thats like betting the long shot then complaining when he doesnt win.

- AB had double surgery on his ankles last year. I love the guy, but we went to great lengths to sign him over some other free agents who didnt have the cloud of bad feet and ankles looming. Quite a few of those guys are paid less than AB and have produced a lot more this year. Its tough to say they would do so here with our bad Oline, but still.

- Hixon was coming off a bad knee injury and was clearly not ready to be back on the field. Rushing him back may have cost him his career. Sintim also coming off a torn knee was clearly not ready to be back on the field. He also, is likely done in the league.

So, if you are a GM and you draft a guy coming off a serious knee injury, then he reinjures that same knee. Its not just "bad luck."

If you a GM and you resign your primary HB to shoulder most of the load, but he is coming off double foot surgery and he then injures his feet again, its not "bad luck". You should have made sure he has someone there to help him carry the load. BJ, obviously is not that guy and its your job to know that.

If your a GM and you have 2 players coming off serious knee surgeries, and you expect both of these guys to be starters, you best have quality depth behind those guys in case some " not bad luck" strikes again.
</P>


Where is the coach to blame for anything described in your post?</P>


What other free agent RB's should we have signed instead of Bradshaw??</P>




did you even read it? Coaches develop the talent no? When we have a guy go down and his backup is completely incompetent and has no idea where to even line up, doesnt that reflect poorly on the coaches? They do, after all get final say on roster choices. I dont recall seeing Green bay's backup players, who came in for all their injured players last year, seem even remotely lost or hesitant about where they need to be on the field.


As to the Rb situation, 3 free agent Rbs who were paid less than AB have produced more this year (Benson, Bush and Sproles). DeAngelo Williams has also, but he was overpaid. However, my point isnt that we shouldnt have resigned bradshaw, but rather is it fair to sign him and ask him to be our feature back knowing he has foot problems then claim its not our fault when he reinjures his feet. Brandon jacobs, Ab's backup has always had injury problems and we ignored those when we resigned him as well.
</P>


The point isthat the coach's ability to develop talent depends entirely on the talent he is given. For instance, no amount of coaching can turn you or I into a starting player for the Giants. The coach can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.</P>Knowing where to line up is not a talent issue, its a knowledge issue. Are you actually saying this team hasnt got more talent than their recent late season collapses indicate?








Reggie Bush was traded to the Dolphins. He was not a FA.
</P>


You are right, he was. But he was as good as a free agent since it was publicly announced he was available for trade. Hell he tweeted he was not playing in NO anymore prior to the Saints even searching for trade.
</P>



Were you on here calling for us to sign Benson, Williams or Sproles instead of Bradshaw before the season started????I'm guessing not.</P>




Again, reading comprehension. Reread what I said regarding resigning AB.

Ill simplify since your not reading it or understanding it: if you want to resign a guy who is coming off 2 broken ankles that fine, but dont then give him 90% of the carries and then claim its "bad luck" when he breaks his ankles again.

Resigning AB should have spelled the end for BJ, which I DID call for his offseason. BJ, even after taking a pay cut, is still vastly overpaid for his production. He also cannot stay on the field. There is no healthguarantees in the NFL, but we should have pursued a back with a better history of durability. We needed it to help alleviate the burden on AB. If you didnt see my posts last summer regarding this, thats on you, not me.






</P>


Dispense with the reading comprehension comments -- it makes you look petty and small. </P>


Please tell me what you were calling for in terms of the RB position last summer before Bradshaw was signed. It's easy to sit here and criticize after the fact, but unless you were calling for some different course of action at the time JR made the decision to sign Bradshaw, then STFU.</P>


Nice recovery on Bush. Next time know your facts before spouting off. </P>


Please point out the negative plays that have cost us games this season because of players "not knowing where to line up." If you think that we are playing so poorly on D becaue players don't know where to line up, you have no idea what you are talking about.</P>


By the way, what wa your prediction for our record at the start of the season? Just curious . . . . . </P>


</P>


</P>


</P>

SweetZombieJesus
12-03-2011, 12:22 AM
Doesn't matter that they spent $200M to bring in new FA's after Torre left, and only after those guys were brought in did they win a championship??? Do you think that Torre couldn't have won a championship that year with CC, Tex, etc? </p>


Eh, ok . . . . . </p>


</p>

Really, you want to play that hand? Let's review all the pricey free agents that were brought in to reload for Torre -- Giambi, A-Rod, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, et al.</p>

Don't act like Joe Torre didn't get big FAs after he was done winning championships.
</p>

SweetZombieJesus
12-03-2011, 12:24 AM
Tom steped in in 2005
first season 11-5
2006 - 2-6 the last 8 games
2007 - 4-4 in the last 8 games 6-2 start *SB*
2008 - 11-1 to start and lost 3 of 4 WC lost
2009 - 5-0 start 3-8 to finish
2010 - 6-2 start 4-4 to finish
2011 - 6-2 start............here why Tom Coughlin is coaching his last year in New York!!

He stepped in in 2004.

5-2 start, 1-8 finish.

gumby742
12-03-2011, 12:25 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****. Part of the decision as to whether or not TC should be fired is an evaluation of whether or not there is another coach out there who would do a better job. There are posters on this board who have actually started threads that we shoul replace TC with Tont Sparano . . .. lol . . . or Romeo Crenel. People are not thinking rationally . . . . . . .</P>


What makes any of those coaches better or worse then TC in your book?* For every coaches failing there is always a reason.* Especially the reasons that Coughlin defenders use* ....</P>


Sparano has his group playing hard.* He has no talent.* He's had to deal with injury.</P>


</P>


Ha ha . . . are you going on record as saying that you would be ok with Sparano replacing TC?* </P>


That move would make us the laughing stock of the entire sports world.</P>


*</P>


</P>


I wouldn't be mad.* But yeah, I think I'd be ok with it.* He took a 1-15 dolphins team and almost took them to the playoffs the next year.</P>


So what's so funny about it?</P>


</P>


The fact that you don't see what's funny about it is mind-boggling . . . . . . </P>

indulge me. so what is so mind-boggling? or are you hard pressed to answer - just like when i ask you what part of football is hard to understand?

appodictic
12-03-2011, 12:33 AM
You know we talk about the giants having a winning record every year. So TC did well, but the question is could someone else have done better. There were some years we had some serious talent and did not get the job done.

BlueSanta
12-03-2011, 02:52 AM
Dispense with the reading comprehension comments -- it makes you look petty and small. </p>.


</p>

</p>

Then stop asking question I already answered in the post your responding to. Its that simple. I dont like having to retype things either.


As far as what I said last summer. I said we should look for Either BJ + an alternate RB FA other than AB. But my preference was to resign AB and release BJ in favor of another RB who can help split the load with AB. Jacobs is highly paid, even after his pay cut, for a guy who was only carrying it 7 times a game(prior to ab getting hurt) compared to AB who was averaging 16.

Jacobs has ALWAYS been fragile, its because of his running style(too upright) and his build (long legs.) Its not really his fault, he runs upright because he is so tall for a RB. But its a fact, he misses a lot of time because of leg injuries. Either way, going into the season with a guy who has glass legs and a guy who had double foot surgery wasnt our best move.

I have taken a lot of flak since last spring for being critical of BJ. Last year, when I pointed out he has a bad habbit of taking plays outside that were meant to go inside, I took some heat from posters. Now, everyone is saying it.....

Either way, as I originally stated and back to my original point, we have not proven to be a deep team. It is partly because of some holes in talent and some youth. But it is also largely due to the fact that the coaches have not made sure everyone knows their roll. We had guys last week who didnt know where to line up on the 1st defensive series in the game.....how on EARTH is that not on the coaching staff?

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2011, 08:35 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****. Part of the decision as to whether or not TC should be fired is an evaluation of whether or not there is another coach out there who would do a better job. There are posters on this board who have actually started threads that we shoul replace TC with Tont Sparano . . .. lol . . . or Romeo Crenel. People are not thinking rationally . . . . . . .</P>


What makes any of those coaches better or worse then TC in your book? For every coaches failing there is always a reason. Especially the reasons that Coughlin defenders use ....</P>


Sparano has his group playing hard. He has no talent. He's had to deal with injury.</P>


</P>


Ha ha . . . are you going on record as saying that you would be ok with Sparano replacing TC? </P>


That move would make us the laughing stock of the entire sports world.</P>


</P>


</P>


I wouldn't be mad. But yeah, I think I'd be ok with it. He took a 1-15 dolphins team and almost took them to the playoffs the next year.</P>


So what's so funny about it?</P>


</P>


The fact that you don't see what's funny about it is mind-boggling . . . . . . </P>


indulge me. so what is so mind-boggling? or are you hard pressed to answer - just like when i ask you what part of football is hard to understand?</P>


</P>


Do you really need me to explain how silly it is to suggest replacing a Super Bowl winning coach who has not had a losing season since the SB with a coach who has a career losing record, whose teams have gotten steadily worse since he has been there, who has never won a playoff game, and who will be fired within 30 seconds of the season's end? C'mon . . . . </P>


</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2011, 08:40 AM
Dispense with the reading comprehension comments -- it makes you look petty and small. </P>.


</P>


</P>




Then stop asking question I already answered in the post your responding to. Its that simple. I dont like having to retype things either.


As far as what I said last summer. I said we should look for Either BJ + an alternate RB FA other than AB. But my preference was to resign AB and release BJ in favor of another RB who can help split the load with AB. Jacobs is highly paid, even after his pay cut, for a guy who was only carrying it 7 times a game(prior to ab getting hurt) compared to AB who was averaging 16.

Jacobs has ALWAYS been fragile, its because of his running style(too upright) and his build (long legs.) Its not really his fault, he runs upright because he is so tall for a RB. But its a fact, he misses a lot of time because of leg injuries. Either way, going into the season with a guy who has glass legs and a guy who had double foot surgery wasnt our best move.

I have taken a lot of flak since last spring for being critical of BJ. Last year, when I pointed out he has a bad habbit of taking plays outside that were meant to go inside, I took some heat from posters. Now, everyone is saying it.....

Either way, as I originally stated and back to my original point, we have not proven to be a deep team. It is partly because of some holes in talent and some youth. But it is also largely due to the fact that the coaches have not made sure everyone knows their roll. We had guys last week who didnt know where to line up on the 1st defensive series in the game.....how on EARTH is that not on the coaching staff?


</P>


If that's what you were calling for <U>before</U> the decision was made to keep Bradshaw and BJ, then you have a right to gripe. My beef is with posters who laud the decison at the time, and then criticize it later because it didn't turn out as planned.</P>


I'm not sure though that there was an acceptable alternative to BJ -- Cedric Benson and his constant legal problems? Even the Bengals would only give him a one year deal. Deangelo Williams? The Panthers way overpaid for him and are already regretting it. Sproles? Who knew that he would have a coming out party like he has had this year? Did we really want to go into a season with AB and Sproles as our backs? Bush? Not a big fan and he would probably have cost as much as BJ.</P>


</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2011, 08:43 AM
Doesn't matter that they spent $200M to bring in new FA's after Torre left, and only after those guys were brought in did they win a championship??? Do you think that Torre couldn't have won a championship that year with CC, Tex, etc? </P>


Eh, ok . . . . . </P>


</P>


Really, you want to play that hand? Let's review all the pricey free agents that were brought in to reload for Torre -- Giambi, A-Rod, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, et al.</P>


Don't act like Joe Torre didn't get big FAs after he was done winning championships.
</P>


</P>


Sigh . . . . the point is that Girardi di not just step in and win with Torre's team as you claimed. If you want to believe that the Yankees won another championship after Torre left solely because of the managerial change go ahead.</P>

Die-Hard
12-03-2011, 09:22 AM
How long should a team hold onto a coach that won a SB, despite the fact that his teams have, for the most part, badly underachieved since then?

You guys are putting entirely too much credence into something that happened almost 5 years ago. Call me crazy, but I want to see them win another Championship, instead of sitting around reminiscing about how great the last one was, and how the coach deserves some kind of lifetime pass because of it.

daynemustgo
12-03-2011, 09:25 AM
How long should a team hold onto a coach that won a SB, despite the fact that his teams have, for the most part, badly underachieved since then?

You guys are putting entirely too much credence into something that happened almost 5 years ago. Call me crazy, but I want to see them win another Championship, instead of sitting around reminiscing about how great the last one was, and how the coach deserves some kind of lifetime pass because of it.


Agreed.

gumby742
12-03-2011, 10:17 AM
I remember Parcells going 3-12-1. I hear all these people *****ing about a guy that hasn't had a losing season since Eli's rookie year. This team went 10-6 last year. We're still in the hunt of a playoff spot. Okay, the Saints drilled us.....like they drill 99% of the teams that they play on a Monday night in New Orleans. Boo ****ing hoo. Fact is NY fans are spoiled. Most Giants fans are also Yankees fans....God forbid we don't win it all every year, or else people need to lose their jobs, apparently. If a change it to be made, it involves player development and scouting.....and not firing people, just a change in direction. Personally, I'm not for firing a winner and replacing him with some dude that might take another 2-3 year to rebuild the team. Eli is in his prime.....let's not burn the ****ing house down because ****GASP***** we're 6-5 and still can win the division. Enough with this soap opera bull****. Part of the decision as to whether or not TC should be fired is an evaluation of whether or not there is another coach out there who would do a better job. There are posters on this board who have actually started threads that we shoul replace TC with Tont Sparano . . .. lol . . . or Romeo Crenel. People are not thinking rationally . . . . . . .</P>


What makes any of those coaches better or worse then TC in your book?* For every coaches failing there is always a reason.* Especially the reasons that Coughlin defenders use* ....</P>


Sparano has his group playing hard.* He has no talent.* He's had to deal with injury.</P>


</P>


Ha ha . . . are you going on record as saying that you would be ok with Sparano replacing TC?* </P>


That move would make us the laughing stock of the entire sports world.</P>


*</P>


</P>


I wouldn't be mad.* But yeah, I think I'd be ok with it.* He took a 1-15 dolphins team and almost took them to the playoffs the next year.</P>


So what's so funny about it?</P>


</P>


The fact that you don't see what's funny about it is mind-boggling . . . . . . </P>


indulge me. so what is so mind-boggling? or are you hard pressed to answer - just like when i ask you what part of football is hard to understand?</P>


*</P>


Do you really need me to explain how silly it is to suggest replacing a Super Bowl winning coach who has not had a losing season since the SB with a coach who has a career losing record, whose teams have gotten steadily worse since he has been there, who has never won a playoff game, and who will be fired within 30 seconds of the season's end?* C'mon . . . . </P>


*</P>

Ok. I'll buy that reasoning. But Sparano had a remarkable turnaround for the Dolphins when he first stepped in. Keep in mind he's never had a quality QB after Pennington went down. With Pennington they almost went (or did i forget) to the playoffs. This is after they went 1-15? I honestly think that there are a lot of really good coaches out there that don't get a fair shake due to crappy talent. Teams win. It's hard to win when you have a roster like the Rams and the Dolphins.

So imo, saying Sparano would make a terrible head coach for the Giants, isn't such a gimme. Would i prefer other candidates? Definitely. But I wouldn't be hopping mad.

Big Blue 418
12-03-2011, 12:19 PM
You should know by now that the posters who post negative comments toward TC are the ones who couldn't catch a wiffle ball and know nothing about the game. Just a bunch of pansies who are letting their panties get caught in a bind!


And your were the captain of the football team in high school team?. This is just a moronic comment ... Fans who watch the games can tell when a football team is not prepared for a game . The Sehawks & Saints games are examples . You don't need to be an athlete but just have eyes to make this observation ...

JMFP2
12-03-2011, 05:34 PM
How long should a team hold onto a coach that won a SB, despite the fact that his teams have, for the most part, <FONT size=5>badly underachieved</FONT> since then?

You guys are putting entirely too much credence into something that happened almost 5 years ago. Call me crazy, but I want to see them win another Championship, instead of sitting around reminiscing about how great the last one was, and how the coach deserves some kind of lifetime pass because of it.
</P>


I think "badly underachieved" is questionable.</P>


It's a statistical fact that the Giants have played lopsided schedules for a several years. I posted the link in a prior post.</P>


On average, the strength of schedule in the 2nd half of the year is over 100 points higher than the 1st half of the year. That's not an opinion....that's a fact.</P>


Reese has had some good picks, but many of his picks can't stayon the field or simply are mediocre. </P>


If you want glaring proof, just look at the offensive line, and the linebacker positions. The Giants are near dead last in rushing offense, and defense.....that's a personnel problem, not a coaching problem. </P>


When Coughlin had the horses, we were killing people rushing the ball.</P>


I see a team that has been good, not great. They largely beat the teams they are supposed to beat, and struggle against stronger teams.</P>


I don't think anyone deserves a lifetime pass. But we are talking about a coach who hasn't had a losing season since Eli was in diapers.</P>


Last year 10-6.....this year, 6-5, and still in the driver's seat. Fans around here have a serious case of premature pitchforks.</P>

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2011, 07:38 PM
How long should a team hold onto a coach that won a SB, despite the fact that his teams have, for the most part, <FONT size=5>badly underachieved</FONT> since then?

You guys are putting entirely too much credence into something that happened almost 5 years ago. Call me crazy, but I want to see them win another Championship, instead of sitting around reminiscing about how great the last one was, and how the coach deserves some kind of lifetime pass because of it.
</P>


I think "badly underachieved" is questionable.</P>


It's a statistical fact that the Giants have played lopsided schedules for a several years.* I posted the link in a prior post.</P>


On average, the strength of schedule in the 2nd half of the year is over 100 points higher than the 1st half of the year.* That's not an opinion....that's a fact.</P>


Reese has had some good picks, but many of his picks can't stay*on the field or simply are mediocre.* </P>


If you want glaring proof, just look at the offensive line, and the linebacker positions.* The Giants are near dead last in rushing offense, and defense.....that's a personnel problem, not a coaching problem.** </P>


When Coughlin had the horses, we were killing people rushing the ball.</P>


I see a team that has been good, not great.* They largely beat the teams they are supposed to beat, and struggle against stronger teams.</P>


I don't think anyone deserves a lifetime pass.* But we are talking about a coach who hasn't had a losing season since Eli was in diapers.</P>


Last year 10-6.....this year, 6-5, and still in the driver's seat.* Fans around here have a serious case of premature pitchforks.</P>

My new favorite poster . . . .

Die-Hard
12-03-2011, 08:01 PM
How long should a team hold onto a coach that won a SB, despite the fact that his teams have, for the most part, <font size="5">badly underachieved</font> since then?

You guys are putting entirely too much credence into something that happened almost 5 years ago. Call me crazy, but I want to see them win another Championship, instead of sitting around reminiscing about how great the last one was, and how the coach deserves some kind of lifetime pass because of it.
</p>


I think "badly underachieved" is questionable.</p>


It's a statistical fact that the Giants have played lopsided schedules for a several years. I posted the link in a prior post.</p>


On average, the strength of schedule in the 2nd half of the year is over 100 points higher than the 1st half of the year. That's not an opinion....that's a fact.</p>


Reese has had some good picks, but many of his picks can't stayon the field or simply are mediocre. </p>


If you want glaring proof, just look at the offensive line, and the linebacker positions. The Giants are near dead last in rushing offense, and defense.....that's a personnel problem, not a coaching problem. </p>


When Coughlin had the horses, we were killing people rushing the ball.</p>


I see a team that has been good, not great. They largely beat the teams they are supposed to beat, and struggle against stronger teams.</p>


I don't think anyone deserves a lifetime pass. But we are talking about a coach who hasn't had a losing season since Eli was in diapers.</p>


Last year 10-6.....this year, 6-5, and still in the driver's seat. Fans around here have a serious case of premature pitchforks.</p>

Premature pitchforks? Never heard that one before LOL

Since 2007, what I've seen in a 10-1 start that ended with a first round exit, an 8-8 finish that resulted in no playoffs, and a 10-6 finish that, in all honesty, was an anomaly to miss the playoffs, but the unforgivable 2nd Eagles game collapse certainly didn't help.

Point is, with the remaining schedule, the lackluster effort being shown by the defense, the 27 total drops by the receivers(thats a true number, not an opinion), the run game being nonexistent, and the Oline looking like a massive trainwreck, who gets the blame, and who has to answer for everything? The Head Coach

At this point, it's easy to break out the pitchforks, because the immediate future is looking really damn bleak. Until they prove to me that they can pull themselves out of this abyss that they've thrown themselves into, I'm going to remain not-so-positive, and I suspect that a lot of others will as well. "Rah-Rah" simply is not realistic. They are not as good as advertised, and haven't been for much of the season, and something tells me that tomorrow, the ultimate reality will hit them in the face.

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2011, 09:08 PM
How long should a team hold onto a coach that won a SB, despite the fact that his teams have, for the most part, <font size="5">badly underachieved</font> since then?

You guys are putting entirely too much credence into something that happened almost 5 years ago. Call me crazy, but I want to see them win another Championship, instead of sitting around reminiscing about how great the last one was, and how the coach deserves some kind of lifetime pass because of it.
</p>


I think "badly underachieved" is questionable.</p>


It's a statistical fact that the Giants have played lopsided schedules for a several years.* I posted the link in a prior post.</p>


On average, the strength of schedule in the 2nd half of the year is over 100 points higher than the 1st half of the year.* That's not an opinion....that's a fact.</p>


Reese has had some good picks, but many of his picks can't stay*on the field or simply are mediocre.* </p>


If you want glaring proof, just look at the offensive line, and the linebacker positions.* The Giants are near dead last in rushing offense, and defense.....that's a personnel problem, not a coaching problem.** </p>


When Coughlin had the horses, we were killing people rushing the ball.</p>


I see a team that has been good, not great.* They largely beat the teams they are supposed to beat, and struggle against stronger teams.</p>


I don't think anyone deserves a lifetime pass.* But we are talking about a coach who hasn't had a losing season since Eli was in diapers.</p>


Last year 10-6.....this year, 6-5, and still in the driver's seat.* Fans around here have a serious case of premature pitchforks.</p>

Premature pitchforks? Never heard that one before LOL

Since 2007, what I've seen in a 10-1 start that ended with a first round exit, an 8-8 finish that resulted in no playoffs, and a 10-6 finish that, in all honesty, was an anomaly to miss the playoffs, but the unforgivable 2nd Eagles game collapse certainly didn't help.

Point is, with the remaining schedule, the lackluster effort being shown by the defense, the 27 total drops by the receivers(thats a true number, not an opinion), the run game being nonexistent, and the Oline looking like a massive trainwreck, who gets the blame, and who has to answer for everything?* The Head Coach

At this point, it's easy to break out the pitchforks, because the immediate future is looking really damn bleak. Until they prove to me that they can pull themselves out of this abyss that they've thrown themselves into, I'm going to remain not-so-positive, and I suspect that a lot of others will as well. "Rah-Rah" simply is not realistic. They are not as good as advertised, and haven't been for much of the season, and something tells me that tomorrow, the ultimate reality will hit them in the face.


Not as good as advertised? How good were they advertised to be?? Most pundits did not pick them to make the playoffs.

I'm curious . . . . what did YOU think that their record would be when the season started??? I don't remember many people on this board predicting higher than 10-6 . . . . . most people were predicting under .500 records because of JR's "mistakes" in not signing Boss and Smith . . . .

Die-Hard
12-03-2011, 11:17 PM
What I meant was, 6-2 was a fluke. 6-5 is par for the course

7-9, or maybe 8-8, was my prediction. It was based moreso on the defense, and the way the Giants FO ignored the LB position. It has gone on far too long, and it has, once again, bitten them.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 12:19 AM
What I meant was, 6-2 was a fluke. 6-5 is par for the course

7-9, or maybe 8-8, was my prediction. It was based moreso on the defense, and the way the Giants FO ignored the LB position. It has gone on far too long, and it has, once again, bitten them.
</P>


Then if they finish at 7-9 or 8-8, how can you say they underachieved???</P>

JMFP2
12-04-2011, 01:04 AM
How long should a team hold onto a coach that won a SB, despite the fact that his teams have, for the most part, <FONT size=5>badly underachieved</FONT> since then?

You guys are putting entirely too much credence into something that happened almost 5 years ago. Call me crazy, but I want to see them win another Championship, instead of sitting around reminiscing about how great the last one was, and how the coach deserves some kind of lifetime pass because of it.
</P>


I think "badly underachieved" is questionable.</P>


It's a statistical fact that the Giants have played lopsided schedules for a several years. I posted the link in a prior post.</P>


On average, the strength of schedule in the 2nd half of the year is over 100 points higher than the 1st half of the year. That's not an opinion....that's a fact.</P>


Reese has had some good picks, but many of his picks can't stayon the field or simply are mediocre. </P>


If you want glaring proof, just look at the offensive line, and the linebacker positions. The Giants are near dead last in rushing offense, and defense.....that's a personnel problem, not a coaching problem. </P>


When Coughlin had the horses, we were killing people rushing the ball.</P>


I see a team that has been good, not great. They largely beat the teams they are supposed to beat, and struggle against stronger teams.</P>


I don't think anyone deserves a lifetime pass. But we are talking about a coach who hasn't had a losing season since Eli was in diapers.</P>


Last year 10-6.....this year, 6-5, and still in the driver's seat. Fans around here have a serious case of premature pitchforks.</P>




Premature pitchforks? Never heard that one before LOL

Since 2007, what I've seen in a 10-1 start that ended with a first round exit, an 8-8 finish that resulted in no playoffs, and a 10-6 finish that, in all honesty, was an anomaly to miss the playoffs, but the unforgivable 2nd Eagles game collapse certainly didn't help.

Point is, with the remaining schedule, the lackluster effort being shown by the defense, the 27 total drops by the receivers(thats a true number, not an opinion), the run game being nonexistent, and the Oline looking like a massive trainwreck, who gets the blame, and who has to answer for everything? The Head Coach

At this point, it's easy to break out the pitchforks, because the immediate future is looking really damn bleak. Until they prove to me that they can pull themselves out of this abyss that they've thrown themselves into, I'm going to remain not-so-positive, and I suspect that a lot of others will as well. "Rah-Rah" simply is not realistic. They are not as good as advertised, and haven't been for much of the season, and something tells me that tomorrow, the ultimate reality will hit them in the face.
</P>


I think the decision of whether to fire or keep Coughlin shouldn't take place until the season is complete. People that "have seen enough", are frankly, just not being rational, but rather, living in a different year than 2011. This isn't the 2007 Giants, or the 1986 Giants, for that matter. </P>


If the Giants were sitting in the basement right now, or mathematically eliminated, yeah, maybe it's reasonable to wonder about whether Coughlin should go.</P>


Things look like **** during a 3 game losing streak. I think Coughlin has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt until the season is over.</P>


If Mara/Tisch decide to pull the trigger on Coughlin, it will mean they believe that Reese somehow gave him a better team than in 2010....given the injuries, lack of free agency moves, and non-productive draft picks, I can't see how anyone can make that case, and so I'd be stunned if Mara thinks Coughlin is the problem.</P>


The solutionis more talented, tougher players, a focus on the team's weakness at OL &amp; LB, and hope forbetter luck with injuries.</P>