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View Full Version : To Giants fans who want Coughlin fired: Seriously?



Cowboys Fan From Asia
12-02-2011, 11:18 PM
I've held off on this topic for a bit, but.......seriously?






Under Coughlin, the Giants have been playoff contenders <u>every year</u>
for the past seven consecutive seasons (2005-present). The only
exception might be 2009, but even then NY was still very much in the thick of the
race and started the year 5-0.





The Giants haven't had a losing season since 2004. How many NFL
teams can lay claim to that same feat? You might be surprised: Not the
Colts. Not the Eagles. Not the Ravens. Not the Packers. Not the Bears.
Not the Cowboys. Definitely not the Saints or Falcons.





In fact, as far as I can tell, the Giants currently hold that streak
alongside of only three other NFL teams: The Steelers, Patriots, and
Chargers. Many NFL fanbases would love to have that kind of
consistency from their team. Some have never known what it's like.




The talk about how the Coughlin-coached Giants collapse late in
the season with the playoffs on the line hides the more
basic fact: You can't complain about a coach "who blows 5-0 and 6-2 starts to begin a season" unless you have a coach who actually led your team to 5-0 and 6-2 records to start a season to begin with. You can't complain about a coach "whose team collapses late in the
season with the playoffs on the line", unless that coach had your team in the thick of playoff contention to begin with. If you have forgotten what it felt like without such a team, go back to the Giants teams of 2003 and 2004, which finished 4-12 and 6-10. Can't remember what it was like? Probably because it's been a very long time. Why has it been a long time? Because the Coughlin-coached Giants have been a winning team for a long time.




Sure, perhaps Coughlin will retire on his own regardless. Sure, maybe things have passed him by. Perhaps it's best for him and the team that he leave. At any rate, he deserves better than a firing.



Seriously, from a Dallas fan who considers the Giants to be, year in
and year out, arguably the most dangerous rival/opponent of the Cowboys': You really
don't know what you have until it's over.

NYfanatic
12-02-2011, 11:29 PM
Easy for you guys to say that now since the boys are likely to be in the playoffs. I could care less about being over .500 when you dont make the playoffs. It just gets you worse draft picks and that doesnt help out your team. Being stuck in "so close" land for now 3 years is pathetic. The ultimate goal is to contend for a superbowl and Tom hasnt done that in 3 years now. Not making the playoffs means you dont have a chance to get one. So Tom does in fact need to go.
P.S. I think the chargers are going get off that list.

EJ Blue
12-02-2011, 11:37 PM
You can throw records around and say how great he is based on those numbers, but honestly even the numbers look mediocre aside from the Superbowl. The story behind Coughlin and the Giants is that they've started off strong 3 seasons straight and collapse when the games start to matter, and if everything goes as natural this will be year 4 in the dumps.

We get out coached in games we're supposed to win and haven't sniffed the playoffs in 2 seasons additionally. Fans have every reason to be frustrated at him right now. This is a recurring issue.

giantsfan420
12-02-2011, 11:46 PM
wow, i think i just met the first cowboys fan i ever had respect for...

great post man, well said. the opinions vary on both extremes, regardless, we'll see what happens and where the team is at when all the games have been played.

3 weeks ago coughlin was untouchable, people posting the pics of the locker room after the NE win, him being hoisted onto players (who have been vocal about things they actually dislike about the franchise-osi, jacobs) to now those same fans who were all over toms jock strap are now saying he has to be fired.

we've been the most injured team by far thoughout the year, more than 12 players on IR i believe, constant injuries to players that we had to field bc of those IR injuries, and a whole myriad of other factors.

the same people saying he must be fired were saying we were a 4 win team pre-season or at best a 6 or 8 win team.

Coughlin has done a good job of playing the hand he was dealt imo.

I still think even if we falter badly from here on out, Coughlin won't be fired, but we'll have a new staff surrounding him.

People act like its Tom who calls the plays or sets up the game plan for O and D. He doesn't, all he does is to try and prepare the players for whatever situation may arise on Sundays. from our own players admissions, he is excellent at this and even when we get blown out, players usually will say "we just didnt get it done. Coach talked about these things that led to us losing all week and we just didn't perform" which a good example would be the Tenn loss last year.

All week Tom was saying "the players are chirpy, they'll hit after the whistle. they'll try and instigate" and what happens? we get like 5 personal fouls for retaliating.


Dude has us winning games or being in every game for the majority of every year he's been here. This NO loss was the first time I believe we lost by more than 10 points all year.

But hey, thats my take.

yatitle
12-03-2011, 12:08 AM
Giants fans should be embarrassed a Cowboy fan without any agenda can appreciate what TC has accomplished for the team but the spoiled front running Giants fans can't.

SweetZombieJesus
12-03-2011, 12:11 AM
The problem is that Tom Coughlin is good, but fatally flawed.

His Nov/Dec record is 28-40.

He's never won a home playoff game.

Every year we start out 5-2, and every year we collapse.

This goes back to his first year in 2004. Different players, different owners, different GM. He is the only constant.

Many years the team folds down the stretch and misses the playoffs (2004, 2009, 2010, and probably 2011). Other years the team collapses down the stretch and still makes the playoffs, only to lose in the first round (2005, 2006, 2008).

And in case you haven't noticed, the team shows up small in big games. Like the Eagles game a few weeks ago. Or like the Eagles and Packers games last year. Or the last ever game at Giants Stadium the year before that. Or the playoff game against the Eagles the year before that.

And they don't only lose, but they lose in humiliating fashion. 41-9, 23-0, those kinds of losses.

It's the same problem the Yankees had with Joe Torre -- he's living off past glory and while he is doing a good job, it falls short of championship level, and you keep extending him one year at a time to give him one more chance to recapture that magic. And when the all-time worst disasters happen (2004 ALCS for Torre, pick one of the above for Coughlin) they just don't have any answers.

Eventually you just have to move on.

Why did the Cowboys fire Tom Landry?

SweetZombieJesus
12-03-2011, 12:16 AM
Giants fans should be embarrassed a Cowboy fan without any agenda can appreciate what TC has accomplished for the team but the spoiled front running Giants fans can't.

Sure and it has nothing to do with them peaking and still having two games to play against us. I'm sure they'd like to see us stuck in the mud for a few more years.

DragonSoul
12-03-2011, 01:58 AM
I've held off on this topic for a bit, but.......seriously?






Under Coughlin, the Giants have been playoff contenders <u>every year</u>
for the past seven consecutive seasons (2005-present). The only
exception might be 2009, but even then NY was still very much in the thick of the
race and started the year 5-0.*





The Giants haven't had a losing season since 2004. How many NFL
teams can lay claim to that same feat?* You might be surprised:* Not the
Colts. Not the Eagles. Not the Ravens. Not the Packers. Not the Bears.
Not the Cowboys. Definitely not the Saints.**





In fact, as far as I can tell, the Giants currently hold that streak
alongside of only three other NFL teams: The Steelers, Patriots, and
Chargers. Many NFL fanbases would dearly love to have that kind of
consistency from their team.* Some have <u>never </u>known what it's like.




The talk about how the Coughlin-coached Giants collapse late in
the season with the playoffs on the line hides the more
basic fact:* You can't complain about a coach "who blows 5-0 and 6-2
leads to start a season" unless you have a coach who actually led your team to 5-0 and 6-2 records to start a season to begin with. You can't complain about a coach "whose team collapses late in the
season with the playoffs on the line", unless that coach had your team in the thick of playoff contention to begin with. If you have forgotten what it felt like without such a team, go back to the Giants teams of 2003 and 2004, which finished 4-12 and 6-10.* Can't remember what it was like?* Probably because it's been a very long time. Why has it been a long time? Because the Coughlin-coached Giants have been a winning team for a long time.




Sure, perhaps Coughlin will retire on his own regardless. Sure, maybe things have passed him by. Perhaps it's best for him and the team that he leave.* At any rate, he deserves better than a firing.



Seriously, from a Dallas fan who considers the Giants to be, year in
and year out, arguably the most dangerous rival/opponent of the Cowboys': You really
don't know what you have until it's over.
Nicely said. You posted more common sense than most fans on here lately.

While TC deserves dome of the blame (rightfully so) With KG and now possibly Fewell, the injuries are just unreal.

Its one thing to be out some players, but it is another to lose critical players week in and week out for either a season, a quarter or half a season.

Some blame goes to the FO for lack of depth like the LB spot and the Oline.

There is blame to go around, but things need to be put in perspective. If we lose out TC needs to be gone, if he can't win minimum 3 out of the next 5 I think he is in trouble.

10-6 can get us in, if we beat the cowboys twice, or lose maybe once and beat the pack.

SweetZombieJesus
12-03-2011, 08:11 AM
Nicely said. You posted more common sense than most fans on here lately.

While TC deserves dome of the blame (rightfully so) With KG and now possibly Fewell, the injuries are just unreal.

Its one thing to be out some players, but it is another to lose critical players week in and week out for either a season, a quarter or half a season.

Some blame goes to the FO for lack of depth like the LB spot and the Oline.

So how do you explain that these late season swoons have happened every year except 2005 under Coughlin?

2004 - lost 8 of last 9
2006 - lost 6 of last 8
2007 - lost 4 of last 8
2008 - lost 3 of last 4
2009 - lost 8 of last 11
2010 - lost 4 of last 8
2011 - lost 3 of last 3

No, it must be injuries. No pattern here.

How do you explain the utter, embarrassing failures in big games? The turkey playoff losses (2005 loss to Panthers 23-0 at home; 2008 23-11 loss to Eagles), the abysmal performance in big games (Eagles this year, Eagles 2010 aka the meltdown, last game ever at Giants Stadium lost to Panthers 41-9, and there are plenty more). They don't just lose, they look like they couldn't beat a Pop Warner team. They put on franchise-worst performances (like last week vs. Saints -- 577 yards given up; but that's technically only the 2nd worst in franchise history).

Nope, must be injuries.

Come on man, for what ever reason, Coughlin collapses every year and has these disgusting face plants in big games.

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2011, 08:28 AM
Nicely said. You posted more common sense than most fans on here lately. While TC deserves dome of the blame (rightfully so) With KG and now possibly Fewell, the injuries are just unreal. Its one thing to be out some players, but it is another to lose critical players week in and week out for either a season, a quarter or half a season. Some blame goes to the FO for lack of depth like the LB spot and the Oline.

So how do you explain that these late season swoons have happened every year except 2005 under Coughlin?

2004 - lost 8 of last 9
2006 - lost 6 of last 8
2007 - lost 4 of last 8
2008 - lost 3 of last 4
2009 - lost 8 of last 11
2010 - lost 4 of last 8
2011 - lost 3 of last 3

No, it must be injuries. No pattern here.

How do you explain the utter, embarrassing failures in big games? The turkey playoff losses (2005 loss to Panthers 23-0 at home; 2008 23-11 loss to Eagles), the abysmal performance in big games (Eagles this year, Eagles 2010 aka the meltdown, last game ever at Giants Stadium lost to Panthers 41-9, and there are plenty more). They don't just lose, they look like they couldn't beat a Pop Warner team. They put on franchise-worst performances (like last week vs. Saints -- 577 yards given up; but that's technically only the 2nd worst in franchise history).

Nope, must be injuries.

Come on man, for what ever reason, Coughlin collapses every year and has these disgusting face plants in big games.
</P>


Do you think that 2004 had anything to do with starting a rookie QB who was beyond awful that first year?????</P>

Steelman
12-03-2011, 09:28 AM
The problem is that Tom Coughlin is good, but fatally flawed.

His Nov/Dec record is 28-40.

He's never won a home playoff game.

Every year we start out 5-2, and every year we collapse.

This goes back to his first year in 2004.* Different players, different owners, different GM.* He is the only constant.

Many years the team folds down the stretch and misses the playoffs (2004, 2009, 2010, and probably 2011).* Other years the team collapses down the stretch and still makes the playoffs, only to lose in the first round (2005, 2006, 2008).*

And in case you haven't noticed, the team shows up small in big games.* Like the Eagles game a few weeks ago.* Or like the Eagles and Packers games last year.* Or the last ever game at Giants Stadium the year before that.* Or the playoff game against the Eagles the year before that.

And they don't only lose, but they lose in humiliating fashion.* 41-9, 23-0, those kinds of losses.

It's the same problem the Yankees had with Joe Torre -- he's living off past glory and while he is doing a good job, it falls short of championship level, and you keep extending him one year at a time to give him one more chance to recapture that magic.* And when the all-time worst disasters happen (2004 ALCS for Torre, pick one of the above for Coughlin) they just don't have any answers.*

Eventually you just have to move on.

Why did the Cowboys fire Tom Landry?

Landry was fired because Jerry Jones knew Tom would have no part of him sticking his nose in on how to coach the team. Same reason why Johnson left. Since then Jones has hired puppets.

gumby742
12-03-2011, 10:13 AM
I've held off on this topic for a bit, but.......seriously?






Under Coughlin, the Giants have been playoff contenders <u>every year</u>
for the past seven consecutive seasons (2005-present). The only
exception might be 2009, but even then NY was still very much in the thick of the
race and started the year 5-0.*





The Giants haven't had a losing season since 2004. How many NFL
teams can lay claim to that same feat?* You might be surprised:* Not the
Colts. Not the Eagles. Not the Ravens. Not the Packers. Not the Bears.
Not the Cowboys. Definitely not the Saints.**





In fact, as far as I can tell, the Giants currently hold that streak
alongside of only three other NFL teams: The Steelers, Patriots, and
Chargers. Many NFL fanbases would dearly love to have that kind of
consistency from their team.* Some have <u>never </u>known what it's like.




The talk about how the Coughlin-coached Giants collapse late in
the season with the playoffs on the line hides the more
basic fact:* You can't complain about a coach "who blows 5-0 and 6-2
leads to start a season" unless you have a coach who actually led your team to 5-0 and 6-2 records to start a season to begin with. You can't complain about a coach "whose team collapses late in the
season with the playoffs on the line", unless that coach had your team in the thick of playoff contention to begin with. If you have forgotten what it felt like without such a team, go back to the Giants teams of 2003 and 2004, which finished 4-12 and 6-10.* Can't remember what it was like?* Probably because it's been a very long time. Why has it been a long time? Because the Coughlin-coached Giants have been a winning team for a long time.




Sure, perhaps Coughlin will retire on his own regardless. Sure, maybe things have passed him by. Perhaps it's best for him and the team that he leave.* At any rate, he deserves better than a firing.



Seriously, from a Dallas fan who considers the Giants to be, year in
and year out, arguably the most dangerous rival/opponent of the Cowboys': You really
don't know what you have until it's over.


Good post. Got me thinking ....

FBomb
12-03-2011, 11:18 AM
Giants fans should be embarrassed a Cowboy fan without any agenda can appreciate what TC has accomplished for the team but the spoiled front running Giants fans can't.</P>


Why wouldn't a Cowboys fan want us to keep a HC who loses his team after the halfway point every season?</P>


And the "spoiled" comment is the stupidest thing I've read on this subject. The goal is to win the SB is it not? </P>


IMHO the ones that should be embarassed are the Giants fans that ACCEPT an under acheiving HC because he had ONE amazing season oh so long ago.</P>

FishinTheSalt
12-03-2011, 12:39 PM
The guy makes some good points and I've been mostly a supporter of TC.Here's my problem, our playbook is atrocious and we don't make halftime adjustments or if we do, they aren't the right adjustments. While it's the coordinators job, it's up to TC to make the final decisions. </P>

JMFP2
12-03-2011, 05:11 PM
I've held off on this topic for a bit, but.......seriously?



Under Coughlin, the Giants have been playoff contenders <U>every year</U> for the past seven consecutive seasons (2005-present). The only exception might be 2009, but even then NY was still very much in the thick of the race and started the year 5-0.


The Giants haven't had a losing season since 2004. How many NFL teams can lay claim to that same feat? You might be surprised: Not the Colts. Not the Eagles. Not the Ravens. Not the Packers. Not the Bears. Not the Cowboys. Definitely not the Saints.


In fact, as far as I can tell, the Giants currently hold that streak alongside of only three other NFL teams: The Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers. Many NFL fanbases would dearly love to have that kind of consistency from their team. Some have <U>never </U>known what it's like.


The talk about how the Coughlin-coached Giants collapse late in the season with the playoffs on the line hides the more basic fact: You can't complain about a coach "who blows 5-0 and 6-2 leads to start a season" unless you have a coach who actually led your team to 5-0 and 6-2 records to start a season to begin with. You can't complain about a coach "whose team collapses late in the season with the playoffs on the line", unless that coach had your team in the thick of playoff contention to begin with. If you have forgotten what it felt like without such a team, go back to the Giants teams of 2003 and 2004, which finished 4-12 and 6-10. Can't remember what it was like? Probably because it's been a very long time. Why has it been a long time? Because the Coughlin-coached Giants have been a winning team for a long time.


Sure, perhaps Coughlin will retire on his own regardless. Sure, maybe things have passed him by. Perhaps it's best for him and the team that he leave. At any rate, he deserves better than a firing.


Seriously, from a Dallas fan who considers the Giants to be, year in and year out, arguably the most dangerous rival/opponent of the Cowboys': You really don't know what you have until it's over.
</P>


</P>


Well-spoken.</P>


Sometimes it takes someone from outside the fan base to provide a little perspective to some of our more hot-blooded brethren here.</P>

JesseJames
12-03-2011, 05:17 PM
wow, i think i just met the first cowboys fan i ever had respect for...

great post man, well said. the opinions vary on both extremes, regardless, we'll see what happens and where the team is at when all the games have been played.

3 weeks ago coughlin was untouchable, people posting the pics of the locker room after the NE win, him being hoisted onto players (who have been vocal about things they actually dislike about the franchise-osi, jacobs) to now those same fans who were all over toms jock strap are now saying he has to be fired.

we've been the most injured team by far thoughout the year, more than 12 players on IR i believe, constant injuries to players that we had to field bc of those IR injuries, and a whole myriad of other factors.

the same people saying he must be fired were saying we were a 4 win team pre-season or at best a 6 or 8 win team.

Coughlin has done a good job of playing the hand he was dealt imo.

I still think even if we falter badly from here on out, Coughlin won't be fired, but we'll have a new staff surrounding him.

People act like its Tom who calls the plays or sets up the game plan for O and D. He doesn't, all he does is to try and prepare the players for whatever situation may arise on Sundays. from our own players admissions, he is excellent at this and even when we get blown out, players usually will say "we just didnt get it done. Coach talked about these things that led to us losing all week and we just didn't perform" which a good example would be the Tenn loss last year.

All week Tom was saying "the players are chirpy, they'll hit after the whistle. they'll try and instigate" and what happens? we get like 5 personal fouls for retaliating.


Dude has us winning games or being in every game for the majority of every year he's been here. This NO loss was the first time I believe we lost by more than 10 points all year.

But hey, thats my take.
it is my understanding that all game plans are approved by the head coach, how could it be otherwise..

SweetZombieJesus
12-03-2011, 05:37 PM
Do you think that 2004 had anything to do with starting a rookie QB who was beyond awful that first year?????</p>

So there's an excuse for every year, then?

What if it wasn't rookie Eli's fault?

Every year there's an excuse, but it happens every year? <font color="#FF0000">What a coincidence.</font>

At the time we all blamed 2004's meltdown on throwing Eli into the fire. But in the larger picture it fits with Coughlin's meltdowns in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011.

gfd_2
12-03-2011, 06:55 PM
Thanks SZJ for stating my sentiments (taking the '07 run out of the equation)...

His Nov/Dec record is 28-40.

He's never won a home playoff game.

Every year we start out 5-2, and every year we collapse.

I love his style of coaching, but there's a fatal flaw somewhere. It's just not working.

Rusty192
12-03-2011, 07:14 PM
Its not that Coughlins a bad coach. He's a great coach. The second best we've ever had. I love Tom. He's a great man and has done wonders for this franchise, but like I have heard a lot people on here say, sometimes you just need a change of scenery.

You can be the best coach in the world but when your time is up - then its time to go. Sometimes new blood is all you need to kickstart a team.

Thats where I stand on all this.

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2011, 07:43 PM
Do you think that 2004 had anything to do with starting a rookie QB who was beyond awful that first year?????</p>

So there's an excuse for every year, then?

What if it wasn't rookie Eli's fault?

Every year there's an excuse, but it happens every year?* <font color="#FF0000">What a coincidence.</font>

At the time we all blamed 2004's meltdown on throwing Eli into the fire.* But in the larger picture it fits with Coughlin's meltdowns in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011.


Your denial that 2004 was due to Eli's poor play is even sillier than your position that TC should have been fired after the 2008 seasin. You're on a roll dude!!

DragonSoul
12-03-2011, 09:32 PM
Nicely said. You posted more common sense than most fans on here lately.

While TC deserves dome of the blame (rightfully so) With KG and now possibly Fewell, the injuries are just unreal.

Its one thing to be out some players, but it is another to lose critical players week in and week out for either a season, a quarter or half a season.

Some blame goes to the FO for lack of depth like the LB spot and the Oline.

So how do you explain that these late season swoons have happened every year except 2005 under Coughlin?

2004 - lost 8 of last 9
2006 - lost 6 of last 8
2007 - lost 4 of last 8
2008 - lost 3 of last 4
2009 - lost 8 of last 11
2010 - lost 4 of last 8
2011 - lost 3 of last 3

No, it must be injuries.* No pattern here.

How do you explain the utter, embarrassing failures in big games?* The turkey playoff losses (2005 loss to Panthers 23-0 at home; 2008 23-11 loss to Eagles), the abysmal performance in big games (Eagles this year, Eagles 2010 aka the meltdown, last game ever at Giants Stadium lost to Panthers 41-9, and there are plenty more).* They don't just lose, they look like they couldn't beat a Pop Warner team.* They put on franchise-worst performances (like last week vs. Saints -- 577 yards given up; but that's technically only the 2nd worst in franchise history).

Nope, must be injuries.

Come on man, for what ever reason, Coughlin collapses every year and has these disgusting face plants in big games.
I think its 2 if not 3 years he had losing 2nd half season records. Others were .500 or better. The year we won the SB it was a .500 record in the last 8 games.

Yea some are injuries, some are on the coaching (his and others).

07- we won SB
08 - Plax, and our O struggled because of it, recall who we had at the wr spot.
09 - Defense sucked and injured
10 - Eagles game killed us because of defense & ST (partly on coaching staff), and we had a lot of Offense injured as well.

As I have said before, I have an open mind till end of the season. If he Goes 3 and 5 and beats the boys twice he stays and earned it considering everything.

If he only wins 2 or less he will be gone. Injuries have hurt us many years but not as much as this year.

I like TC but I think what is hurting him the most is that he doesn't change the OC/DC (but more so because the Coordinators normally do not adapt well, they want the players to just go out & beat them with bad schemes, and sometimes they can and others they can't)

Dabluguy
12-03-2011, 09:59 PM
No playoffs then he has to go, along with Gilbride who in my opinion should of went last year. TC is a great coach but the Franchise needs a change.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 12:25 AM
No playoffs then he has to go, along with Gilbride who in my opinion should of went last year. TC is a great coach but the Franchise needs a change.</P>


have</P>