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View Full Version : We did not get "HOT " at the right time we GOT....



DragonSoul
01-23-2012, 12:53 PM
Healthy. Thank you.

MikeIsaGiant
01-23-2012, 12:53 PM
And I hope we get a bit healthier next year too, I really think TT made a difference

DragonSoul
01-23-2012, 12:56 PM
And I hope we get a bit healthier next year too, I really think TT made a differenceSorry, I do not think T2 is all that he is made out to be.

He can make a play, but he has cost us quite a few plays too. But do not get me wrong having him back would help compared to what we had all season, but again with Webb, Amukamara and maybe 1 other guy be it ross (t2) we be great. Having Johnson back and/or a FA or draft pick ahead.

embeshAtYa
01-23-2012, 01:36 PM
yes TT is good. I think as far as defense, the biggest upgrade will be getting Jon Goff back. Chase is ok but like Pierce, i think his value to the defense is his smarts not physical ability. I believe Goff will definately make us better if he rebounds from the knee.

DragonSoul
01-23-2012, 07:07 PM
Goff seemed to be heading in the right direction. Yet it was not guaranteed that he would great out, & after the injury, there will be even more questions.

Might need to draft a lb if there is a starting one out there, or let williams/goff fight 4 the starter spot @ mlb next year.

cken
01-23-2012, 07:14 PM
Goff seemed to be heading in the right direction. Yet it was not guaranteed that he would great out, & after the injury, there will be even more questions.

Might need to draft a lb if there is a starting one out there, or let williams/goff fight 4 the starter spot @ mlb next year.

I feel like goff would still be very potent if he fixes his pass coverage. having williams as a back-up mlb so he can work on the finer points of his craft would be amazing, a 2nd year player with speed, athleticism, and playoff experience to spell goff. then, williams can be put in as the defense slowly phases the next generation of backers. they can move kiwi back to DE as well.

Next generation lineup: Jaquian Williams taking over for Boley, Mark Herzlich at the Mike (smart player and run stopper with relentless motor), Greg Jones taking over for Kiwi

Voldamort
01-23-2012, 07:16 PM
Healthy is right

DragonSoul
01-23-2012, 07:42 PM
Goff seemed to be heading in the right direction. Yet it was not guaranteed that he would great out, & after the injury, there will be even more questions.

Might need to draft a lb if there is a starting one out there, or let williams/goff fight 4 the starter spot @ mlb next year.

I feel like goff would still be very potent if he fixes his pass coverage. having williams as a back-up mlb so he can work on the finer points of his craft would be amazing, a 2nd year player with speed, athleticism, and playoff experience to spell goff. then, williams can be put in as the defense slowly phases the next generation of backers. they can move kiwi back to DE as well.

Next generation lineup: Jaquian Williams taking over for Boley, Mark Herzlich at the Mike (smart player and run stopper with relentless motor), Greg Jones taking over for KiwiI wouldn't get rid of bole anytime soon. Jones had some early flashes but has been on the pine a lot more after the SF meeting the 1st time around.

Williams I am impressed with as he has made strides in the right direction, and has shown flashes throughout the year.

Kiwi moving up isn't a bad idea, unless we keep Osi. And while i hope and wish Mark can have a shot at mlb, we still have no clue. It looked promising but he was injured again.

But I would only draft or get a mlb, or strong side/weak lb if there was a STUD. Otherwise I give Goff a year extension same for T2 to see if they recovered from their injuries as we did for Kiwi this year.

cken
01-23-2012, 07:46 PM
Goff seemed to be heading in the right direction. Yet it was not guaranteed that he would great out, & after the injury, there will be even more questions.

Might need to draft a lb if there is a starting one out there, or let williams/goff fight 4 the starter spot @ mlb next year.

I feel like goff would still be very potent if he fixes his pass coverage. having williams as a back-up mlb so he can work on the finer points of his craft would be amazing, a 2nd year player with speed, athleticism, and playoff experience to spell goff. then, williams can be put in as the defense slowly phases the next generation of backers. they can move kiwi back to DE as well.

Next generation lineup: Jaquian Williams taking over for Boley, Mark Herzlich at the Mike (smart player and run stopper with relentless motor), Greg Jones taking over for KiwiI wouldn't get rid of bole anytime soon. Jones had some early flashes but has been on the pine a lot more after the SF meeting the 1st time around.

Williams I am impressed with as he has made strides in the right direction, and has shown flashes throughout the year.

Kiwi moving up isn't a bad idea, unless we keep Osi. And while i hope and wish Mark can have a shot at mlb, we still have no clue. It looked promising but he was injured again.

But I would only draft or get a mlb, or strong side/weak lb if there was a STUD. Otherwise I give Goff a year extension same for T2 to see if they recovered from their injuries as we did for Kiwi this year.

Great points, of course I meant that the current veterans get phased out and the current rookies improve. I think we should be looking for another Lber as well, though the Offensive Line needs a quality center. Baas is just not going to cut it.

DragonSoul
01-23-2012, 08:43 PM
Goff seemed to be heading in the right direction. Yet it was not guaranteed that he would great out, & after the injury, there will be even more questions.

Might need to draft a lb if there is a starting one out there, or let williams/goff fight 4 the starter spot @ mlb next year.

I feel like goff would still be very potent if he fixes his pass coverage. having williams as a back-up mlb so he can work on the finer points of his craft would be amazing, a 2nd year player with speed, athleticism, and playoff experience to spell goff. then, williams can be put in as the defense slowly phases the next generation of backers. they can move kiwi back to DE as well.

Next generation lineup: Jaquian Williams taking over for Boley, Mark Herzlich at the Mike (smart player and run stopper with relentless motor), Greg Jones taking over for KiwiI wouldn't get rid of bole anytime soon. Jones had some early flashes but has been on the pine a lot more after the SF meeting the 1st time around.

Williams I am impressed with as he has made strides in the right direction, and has shown flashes throughout the year.

Kiwi moving up isn't a bad idea, unless we keep Osi. And while i hope and wish Mark can have a shot at mlb, we still have no clue. It looked promising but he was injured again.

But I would only draft or get a mlb, or strong side/weak lb if there was a STUD. Otherwise I give Goff a year extension same for T2 to see if they recovered from their injuries as we did for Kiwi this year.

Great points, of course I meant that the current veterans get phased out and the current rookies improve. I think we should be looking for another Lber as well, though the Offensive Line needs a quality center. Baas is just not going to cut it.Do not get me started on the oline lol.

Drez
01-23-2012, 08:50 PM
Healthy. Thank you.</P>


I think we got both.</P>

DragonSoul
01-23-2012, 08:54 PM
Healthy. Thank you.</P>


I think we got both.</P>It is easier to play well when you have a healthier team.

Can you argue the "hot" topic? Yes you can. But if you do not have the horses to do as needed, there won't even be a spark to hope to get warm, much less "Hot"

gumby742
01-24-2012, 09:01 AM
I'm not buying the health part of it. The only major difference is Osi is back. Boley was out for a couple games and is back. Chase Blackburn being back just might be the biggest difference.</P>


If you want to say that we went from an average defense to a good one because we got healther, that makes total sense. But you don't go from dead last to a top 10 defense because a couple guys got healther. And if it is, blame the d-coordinator by not adjusting. Keep in mind that in the beginning of the season, our defense was still crap.</P>


Just like in 2007, we got hot at the right time imo. We weren't a good team by any stretch of the imagination for almost the entire season.</P>

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 09:12 AM
I'm not buying the health part of it.* The only major difference is Osi is back.* Boley was out for a couple games and is back.* Chase Blackburn being back just might be the biggest difference.</P>


If you want to say that we went from an average defense to a good one because we got healther, that makes total sense.* But you don't go from dead last to a top 10 defense because a couple guys got healther.* And if it is, blame the d-coordinator by not adjusting.* Keep in mind that in the beginning of the season, our defense was still crap.</P>


Just like in 2007, we got hot at the right time imo.* We weren't a good team by any stretch of the imagination for almost the entire season.</P>First I was talking about offense and defense. But it had a bigger impact on defense.

Do not forget, tuck missed a lot of time, Prince didn't get on the field till week 8 or 9 when we played the eagles. We lost Tyron after what 2 games at most. Osi was out how many games?

The only thing that had me puzzled is how can the 2ndry be as bad as they were with so much talent. That I felt was on the coaches, and couldn't fathom. Not all teams (few at all actually) have a decent defensive line, yet other dbs can handle coverage. May not have always been great, but you never seen so many big plays given up. That drove me nuts.

So I do agree it is a combination. But I still feel between the LB and defensive line it helped us a bit, and whatever the issue was in the 2ndry, they started to fix it in time. The last real bad game they had was vs the Skins lol.

The defense we have seen the last 5 games is what we I believe most of us thought we would of had a very good defense at worst.

The only reason why I felt we still had a chance to play well on defense is because we lost T2, and Goff. Goff has improved from the year previously, but he still was a question mark, and as many have said the lb is not the biggest position in our defensive scheme. Also I never felt T2 was our best db, but web was. I felt that T2 can make a big play but at times would gamble and give up a big play. At worst Ross would have had a chance to finally play when healthy, and wouldnt be a big negative for us. In general he hasn't, and again in the playoffs he has relatively played well and stepped up again (interested to see how much better he is doing in the playoffs vs regular season)

Redeyejedi
01-24-2012, 09:12 AM
On Football Outsiders they have an injury metric where they take the value a player has to his team and weight them starter,back up etc... and combine them into a score.

The NY Giants had the 3rd highest injury metric they have made the last decade. The teams that had a worse injury metric were the 0-16 Lions & the 6-10 2007 Bills

gumby742
01-24-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm not buying the health part of it. The only major difference is Osi is back. Boley was out for a couple games and is back. Chase Blackburn being back just might be the biggest difference.</P>


If you want to say that we went from an average defense to a good one because we got healther, that makes total sense. But you don't go from dead last to a top 10 defense because a couple guys got healther. And if it is, blame the d-coordinator by not adjusting. Keep in mind that in the beginning of the season, our defense was still crap.</P>


Just like in 2007, we got hot at the right time imo. We weren't a good team by any stretch of the imagination for almost the entire season.</P>


First I was talking about offense and defense. But it had a bigger impact on defense. Do not forget, tuck missed a lot of time, Prince didn't get on the field till week 8 or 9 when we played the eagles. We lost Tyron after what 2 games at most. Osi was out how many games? The only thing that had me puzzled is how can the 2ndry be as bad as they were with so much talent. That I felt was on the coaches, and couldn't fathom. Not all teams (few at all actually) have a decent defensive line, yet other dbs can handle coverage. May not have always been great, but you never seen so many big plays given up. That drove me nuts. So I do agree it is a combination. But I still feel between the LB and defensive line it helped us a bit, and whatever the issue was in the 2ndry, they started to fix it in time. The last real bad game they had was vs the Skins lol. The defense we have seen the last 5 games is what we I believe most of us thought we would of had a very good defense at worst. The only reason why I felt we still had a chance to play well on defense is because we lost T2, and Goff. Goff has improved from the year previously, but he still was a question mark, and as many have said the lb is not the biggest position in our defensive scheme. Also I never felt T2 was our best db, but web was. I felt that T2 can make a big play but at times would gamble and give up a big play. At worst Ross would have had a chance to finally play when healthy, and wouldnt be a big negative for us. In general he hasn't, and again in the playoffs he has relatively played well and stepped up again (interested to see how much better he is doing in the playoffs vs regular season)</P>


ah ok. i was just talking 'd'.</P>


thing is tuck h as been hurt all year. none of us know for sure, but he's not exactly healthy now either. Prince is still a rookie and hasn't made much an impact. Tryon was a nobody as was Weatherspoon, etc. So really the only major pieces changed are Blackburn and Osi.</P>


But getting people back healthier definitely helped. The difference should be that drastic though. I don't know what has changed, but something was fundamentally wrong 5 weeks ago.</P>


As for the offense, they've been money all season. Our WR corps is deep. And for the most part, we've been relatively healthy everywhere else. Although you can say our entire oline as been on IR because they've been so garbage. My only concern about the offense is that we still go through droughts - entire quarters where we do nothing but 3 and out.</P>

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 09:23 AM
I'm not buying the health part of it.* The only major difference is Osi is back.* Boley was out for a couple games and is back.* Chase Blackburn being back just might be the biggest difference.</P>


If you want to say that we went from an average defense to a good one because we got healther, that makes total sense.* But you don't go from dead last to a top 10 defense because a couple guys got healther.* And if it is, blame the d-coordinator by not adjusting.* Keep in mind that in the beginning of the season, our defense was still crap.</P>


Just like in 2007, we got hot at the right time imo.* We weren't a good team by any stretch of the imagination for almost the entire season.</P>


First I was talking about offense and defense. But it had a bigger impact on defense. Do not forget, tuck missed a lot of time, Prince didn't get on the field till week 8 or 9 when we played the eagles. We lost Tyron after what 2 games at most. Osi was out how many games? The only thing that had me puzzled is how can the 2ndry be as bad as they were with so much talent. That I felt was on the coaches, and couldn't fathom. Not all teams (few at all actually) have a decent defensive line, yet other dbs can handle coverage. May not have always been great, but you never seen so many big plays given up. That drove me nuts. So I do agree it is a combination. But I still feel between the LB and defensive line it helped us a bit, and whatever the issue was in the 2ndry, they started to fix it in time. The last real bad game they had was vs the Skins lol. The defense we have seen the last 5 games is what we I believe most of us thought we would of had a very good defense at worst. The only reason why I felt we still had a chance to play well on defense is because we lost T2, and Goff. Goff has improved from the year previously, but he still was a question mark, and as many have said the lb is not the biggest position in our defensive scheme. Also I never felt T2 was our best db, but web was. I felt that T2 can make a big play but at times would gamble and give up a big play. At worst Ross would have had a chance to finally play when healthy, and wouldnt be a big negative for us. In general he hasn't, and again in the playoffs he has relatively played well and stepped up again (interested to see how much better he is doing in the playoffs vs regular season)</P>


ah ok.* i was just talking 'd'.</P>


thing is tuck h as been hurt all year.* none of us know for sure, but he's not exactly healthy now either.* Prince is still a rookie and hasn't made much an impact.* Tryon was a nobody as was Weatherspoon, etc.* So really the only major pieces changed are Blackburn and Osi.</P>


But getting people back healthier definitely helped.* The difference should be that drastic though.* I don't know what has changed, but something was fundamentally wrong 5 weeks ago.</P>


As for the offense, they've been money all season.** Our WR corps is deep.* And for the most part, we've been relatively healthy everywhere else.* Although you can say our entire oline as been on IR because they've been so garbage.* My only concern about the offense is that we still go through droughts - entire quarters where we do nothing but 3 and out.</P>Well we never knew how long tuck was injured and how severe it was throughout the year. Remember we lost Austin before snaps.

I agree Prince was a rookie, but losing half a season and no training camp hurt, and that would take time to develop (experience) so week 8/9 was his first week but by week 16 or so he has now at least got game time.

We had blackmon in there covering for Prince because he wasn't in complete game shape, if he was I feel he would of had a better shot. I can look into more stuff, I remember awhile ago I looked into it, and it was a lot more then we all realized.

Remember even though we lost Osi, tuck was injured, and kiwi was back and forth, they never really got to play together, and actually gel.

The oline I do agree with you on. It was musical chairs. But remember Barden was out till week 6 I think, we lost Hixon in week 3 I believe, and Manningham was similar to Osi, missed quite a few games early in the season and towards end of the season. Even Nicks was hurting and out for a game or two I believe. But due to Eli it wasn't as glaring as the defense.

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 09:27 AM
On Football Outsiders they have an injury metric where they take the value a player has to his team and weight them starter,back up etc... and combine them into a score.

The NY Giants had the 3rd highest injury metric they have made the last decade. The teams that had a worse injury metric were the 0-16 Lions & the 6-10 2007 BillsThey also said we had the 2nd most injuries in the last 20 years of taking that particular stat (not sure if it is the same site)

Drez
01-24-2012, 09:53 AM
Healthy. Thank you.</P>


I think we got both.</P>


It is easier to play well when you have a healthier team. Can you argue the "hot" topic? Yes you can. But if you do not have the horses to do as needed, there won't even be a spark to hope to get warm, much less "Hot"</P>


Just becausea team ishealthy doesn't necessarily mean that it will play inspired football. I think we've seen plenty of healthy Giants teams play like crap.</P>


Yes, we have gotten healthy the past several weeks, but on top of that we have been playing some of the grittiest, most inspired football I've seen a team play in a very long time.</P>


So, yes, we've gotten healthy, and I'm sure that in no small part has aided in our getting hot, but it still doesn't change the fact that we've gotten hot as well.</P>


</P>

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 09:56 AM
Healthy. Thank you.</P>


I think we got both.</P>


It is easier to play well when you have a healthier team. Can you argue the "hot" topic? Yes you can. But if you do not have the horses to do as needed, there won't even be a spark to hope to get warm, much less "Hot"</P>


Just because*a team is*healthy doesn't necessarily mean that it will play inspired football. I think we've seen plenty of healthy Giants teams play like crap.</P>


Yes, we have gotten healthy the past several weeks, but on top of that we have been playing some of the grittiest, most inspired football I've seen a team play in a very long time.</P>


So, yes, we've gotten healthy, and I'm sure that in no small part has aided in our getting hot, but it still doesn't change the fact that we've gotten hot as well.</P>


*</P>Thats true. But the reason the health made a difference, is that they never quit on TC and the staff. We did see them quit in the past. So the situation was a bit different imho.