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ErnieReese
01-24-2012, 02:20 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!

ny06
01-24-2012, 02:44 PM
There were some great football during that decade. </P>


LT was the best player I have ever saw, he was by far the greatest defensive player that has ever played this game. </P>


Banks was a great player, he was the prototype strong side linebacker. </P>


Simms was a great Giant, he was tough, resilient, smart, a leader. </P>


That beating you saw Eli take against the 49ers last Sunday, Simms took that almost every game of his career. Those were the days you can kill a qb.</P>


To this day, I don't think any qb has played a better game then Simms did in super bowl XXI. He was perfect. 22 for 25 with 2 dropped passes. </P>


I don't like comparing players to todays game, different rules.</P>


</P>

repeatchamps
01-24-2012, 02:54 PM
Over his career in the head to head vs. Elway, Simms outplayed Elway and won the majority of the time. He never lost to Elway in fact. Giants lost to Denver for the first time in years in 1992 but that was with Hostetler at QB.

burier
01-24-2012, 02:58 PM
There were some great football during that decade. </P>


LT was the best player I have ever saw, he was by far the greatest defensive player that has ever played this game. </P>


Banks was a great player, he was the prototype strong side linebacker. </P>


Simms was a great Giant, he was tough, resilient, smart, a leader. </P>


That beating you saw Eli take against the 49ers last Sunday, Simms took that almost every game of his career. Those were the days you can kill a qb.</P>


To this day, I don't think any qb has played a better game then Simms did in super bowl XXI. He was perfect. 22 for 25 with 2 dropped passes. </P>


I don't like comparing players to todays game, different rules.**</P>


*</P>

Agreed for the most part...but you're definately exagerating on the beatings Simms took. He took some serious beatings but not like that on a weekly basis.

ErnieReese
01-24-2012, 03:01 PM
Thanks a lot guys. Always wanted to see those guys live. Never saw many of the Giants' greats, and never saw the greats all around the league at the time.

Makes me envious as a fan.

repeatchamps
01-24-2012, 03:02 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play. The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific. So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to? Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway? I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now. Thanks!</P>


Get yourself the 10 greatest Giants games DVD. Watch the 1986 games and the 1990 games as well. You will see how overpowering the Giants defense was. You will see LT, Banks, Johnson, Reasons, Carson and the rest of the big blue wrecking crewand how superior they were physically and athleticallyto the opposing offense. The poster who replied to you first is correct about Simms. He took a beating like Eli took Sunday 95% of the games he played. This really was the first game I have seen Eli have to deal with what Simms dealt with and hang in there as Simms did. The era is so different now and the QB hits are less. All these guys have it easy compared to what guys like Simms went through. Montana also took a beating at times mainly against us, lol, and if you watch the 1986 49-3 game as well as the 1991 NFC Title game you will see hilacious punishment being dished out to both QB's moreso Montana in those games but you get the point.</P>

~MOJORISIN~
01-24-2012, 03:02 PM
There were some great football during that decade. </P>


LT was the best player I have ever saw, he was by far the greatest defensive player that has ever played this game. </P>


Banks was a great player, he was the prototype strong side linebacker. </P>


Simms was a great Giant, he was tough, resilient, smart, a leader. </P>


That beating you saw Eli take against the 49ers last Sunday, Simms took that almost every game of his career. Those were the days you can kill a qb.</P>


To this day, I don't think any qb has played a better game then Simms did in super bowl XXI. He was perfect. 22 for 25 with 2 dropped passes. </P>


I don't like comparing players to todays game, different rules.**</P>


*</P>

Agreed for the most part...but you're definately exagerating on the beatings Simms took. He took some serious beatings but not like that on a weekly basis.pretty close-plus Phil had nobody to throw to-except Bavaro

G-Man67
01-24-2012, 03:03 PM
get your hands on a copy of Super Bowl 21, Simms was absolutely off the charts that day



also, Simms excelled at throwing in the windy Meadowlands ... he really had a perfect spiral



now with LT, i bet there are some great clips of LT on youtube ... check him out ... he changed the way defence is played

RagTime Blue
01-24-2012, 03:08 PM
I was in H.S. when Simms retired, but I remember he wasn't by any means a "Golden Boy" of a player. He's a model of hard work and grit. Elway was a golden boy.

Phil Simms had many difficult years early on, and it seemed like by the time he actually got respect, his career was over. I remember thinking, "OK, now we can get a great QB!" But the lesson was hard that those don't come around to every team all the time. We missed #11 when he was gone.

LT, on the other hand, was a star from Day 1. I often wonder how I became a Giants fan when my dad was (and still is) a Jets fan, and all I can think about was watching that guy play, and how other teams had to play in fear of his talents.

guardplay320
01-24-2012, 03:10 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!

Simms was a game manager because that was the team he played on. The Giants were a team that pounded the ball with their rb's and relied on their sick defense to carry them. As others have said, he was one tough SOB that took beatings all the time. Didn't have the talent of Eli, but you knew he'd take a licking and keep on ticking.

LT was the greatest football player I've ever seen play. He was a man playing among boys. Nobody could stop him.

One of the players you didn't mention who deserves mention is Bavaro. That guy would catch balls and then carry three to four guys on his back and get an additional 5-10 yards. He wasn't as athletically gifted as the tight ends of today, but the man was an absolute BEAST.

CTLadyBlue
01-24-2012, 03:15 PM
Simms was slow to start - definitely had his share of boos. Wasn't a scrambler (used to personally refer to him as The Turtle) but hung back in the pocket and rarely made an effort to scramble out of it. I remember seeing him and Parcells go at it on the sidelines. Can you imagine Eli and TC screaming at each other in front of everyone? His shining moment was SB 21 where he was near perfect. He was a 'Parcells guy' just like L.T. Which brings me to:

L.T.: What can I say, There are more than enough youtube videos which had montages of his greatest plays/hits. It wasn't the same as watching it unfold on live tv. The guy was ferocious. The way his stood across the line (not crouched down, but stood) eyeing the QB like a lion getting a whiff of fresh meat was frightening. I remember that opposing OCs had to make serious adjustments just because of him. He always went after the ball. Always attacked. He hit hard, but clean - however, if you have to stomach to watch that infamous game when he broke Joe Theismann's leg you'll see how God-awful upset he was after that.

I mean...what more can you say about a guy who was voted to 10 consecutive pro bowls since he was a rookie?

There's a great clip of him and Carl Banks in the 'True Blue' video (which chronicles the 1990 season). They're sitting on a bench together on the sidelines after whooping the Bears in the divisional game 31-3 and they were headed to SF (the infamous game to end the 3-peat) and the camera caught them in conversation. LT had his arm around the back of the bench around Banks

LT: "I don't understand it - they said the Giants were dead"

Banks: "They stuck a fork in us and said we were 'done'."

LT: "San Francisco....we're back!"

Bank: "We're baaaaaack." [evil laugh]

I just LOVE that exchange between them. But, it also goes to show that at 13-3 in 1990 and the No 2 seed we were STILL doubted. Oy vey!

nygsb42champs
01-24-2012, 03:16 PM
Simms was a tough QB. He always give it 100%.

JJC7301
01-24-2012, 03:31 PM
Kid, this question's making me feel old and I'm only 40 years old (going on 20 years old). ;)</P>


That 49ers D you saw the other night -- The Giants D was like that. And we had Belichick (the Pats current D-coordinator) as our D coordinator inSBs 21 &amp; 25.A big difference between the Giants D of the '80s and the 49ers D this year is that the Giants did not have to talk about how toughh they were -- they just did their talking on the field. </P>


Simms was an excellent QB -- he was Joe Montana-lite, without the great WRs. His WRs were dependable catchers, but that's all you could really say about them. Except for Bavaro, who was a beast. One of the toughest players ever (and my personal favorite of all time). Bavaro had his jaw broken in the middle of agame; went back to the clubhouse to have it wired shut, and came back into the game to finish it out.True story.</P>


LT -- had one of the best games of his career with a a broken arm against the Saints. Unfortunately, the Giants haven't had any top-flight LB's since those days except for Jesse Armstead in the late 90s / early '00s. Other great LBs were Banks, Carson, Johnson, and Reasons.</P>


Great members of the D-line were Leonard Marshall (who knocked Joe Montana out); George Martin; Jim Burt (who also knocked out Joe Montana); Erik Howard. </P>


</P>

Roosevelt
01-24-2012, 03:31 PM
Simms - No QB had more heart than Phil Simms. He was tough, and highly accurate. If Simms had time the ball was on the money. Phil would hang in that pocket as long as possible waiting for his receiver to get open at the expense of his body and he did take a beating. But he sure made some great throws.

LT - game changer on day one. We had a good defense before LT. LT made us a great defense. Big and fast. Too much for a TE or RB to handle. The most dominant defensive player I ever saw.

Harry Carson - Our Captain, our leader. Harry was a truly great player who was terrific at stopping the run and defensing the pass. Fierce hitter.

Killer - Carl was as solid as they come. Teams would run away from LT into right into Carl Banks. Banks actually outplayed LT in both Super Bowls.

Bavaro - Rambo. Our best receiving threat at the time, and our best TE ever. Tough. Quiet. Great hands.


As Pat Summerall so eloquently said in 1987: " The Denver Broncos went into Super Bowl XXI hoping they would win. The Giants went in knowing they would".

hungrrrry
01-24-2012, 03:32 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!alot of the games back then were like grudge matches...today, there is alot more finess to the game, even prior to this season when the NFL went crazy protecting the offensive skill positions which ramped up production from them.

Bavaro was a ROcky-type of story. Humble guy playing REAL smashmouth football making heroic plays at times. He was like Gronkowski in that he was Phils Simms' biggest threat in the passing game. Parcells did not place alot of emphasis on the passing game and preferred to grind out yards on the ground and wind down the clock.
Our passing game was great at times though still but also frustrating. Can't even guess how many times the Giants lost a game with Phil Simms getting sacked at the end...used to drive me bonkers.
I used to get frustrated as all hell with Rodney Hampton too even though he was more physical than Jacobs is today. But then he'd break a long one and all would be forgotten.
I liked Banks, Pepper Johnson and Harry Carson, Van Pelt and so on but LT was just great to watch even if we lost you had him to watch and maybe he'd spark the team if things looked bad. Brad Daluisso had a booming leg...Matt Barr was clutch and then there was Hostettler who road Simms' coattails into the superbowl and won it for us. He was like Aaron Rodgers, he could away from the passrush to make a play or run upfield. He wasn't awesome at it but it gave us a new dimension that people hadnt seen much from us.

Other teams players to watch were Elway who was one tough and "Lucky" ****er (my words).
Barry Sanders was one of my favorite players on offense and he played for the Lions. Loved to watch him, though I only saw a few of his games, but there were plenty of highlight reels of him.
Ronnie Lott was one sick son of a ***** to watch on defense...if he played today they would ban him from the NFL.
There is a lot...too much to discuss

Much more physical then but those who love the numbers are just entering the golden age for that...Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Stafford and Eli all had huge yardage counts due in large to the NFL protecting the offense players...those records will breaknin the coming years. You to will witness football history.

rebelfan1966
01-24-2012, 03:39 PM
Elway and Simms were very good QBs.... both mentally and physically tough. However, the best QB in the 80's was .... hands down...... no contest....... Joe Montana.

wolfie
01-24-2012, 03:41 PM
If we were starting a game, and choosing sides, and got first pick I'd take LT. He was by far the most dominate and feared LB to ever play the game. Offenses would build into their game plan how they were going to stop LT. The man wrecked havoc on the field and could single-handedly take over a game. When you watched the Giants, you couldn't wait for the defense to get back on the field to see what he was going to do next.</P>


The only team that did a semi-decent job of stopping him was the 49ers, and that was only semi-decent.</P>

rebelfan1966
01-24-2012, 03:50 PM
If we were starting a game, and choosing sides, and got first pick I'd take LT. He was by far the most dominate and feared LB to ever play the game. Offenses would build into their game plan how they were going to stop LT. The man wrecked havoc on the field and could single-handedly take over a game. When you watched the Giants, you couldn't wait for the defense to get back on the field to see what he was going to do next.</P>


The only team that did a semi-decent job of stopping him was the 49ers, and that was only semi-decent.</P>


</P>


</P>


While LT certainly tarnished his image later in life, there is no doubt he was the best athlete on the field when he played. Of course, he admitted to having played high in some games.... but I won't go there. Just like you, if I was picking teams, he would be the first defensive player I would choose.</P>


On the other side of the ball.... Joe Montana would be the first player I would pick.</P>

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 03:51 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!

Giants fans HATED Simms because he wasn't like Montana/Marino/Elway/Kelly.

Even after winning the '86 Super Bowl there were a ton of shouts for his head.

Simms was an extremely accurate seam passer (his best throw) in a very conservative run-oriented offense. He had no scramble ability, an iffy offensive line but was a really great game manager (not the sexiest title to be stuck with as a QB).

When we won the 1990 Super Bowl, most fans (or at the very least, a sizable percentage of them) wanted Hostetler to take over permanently (I'm actrually fairly surprised he didn't).

Simms never had that break out year after '86, the way Eli is having it now. I often wonder what Simms' legacy would have been had he completed (and won) the 1990 season.

Watching Simms play however, you rarely worried about us turning over the ball ... although you didn't always have the greatest faith of him sustaining a drive.

LT was considered a god back in the 80s. All the praise you see lavished on him today is nothing compared to what was thought of him back in the day.

He was was the first player I've ever seen actively triple teamed and it was the only way to keep him from making a big play. Additionally, A LOT of his big plays came in times when you really needed them to which just added to his mystique.

Harry Carson who is never mentioned enough imo can be summed up with one phrase ... YOU SHALL NOT PASS. Best run stuffing LB I've ever seen (including any of the LBers on the '85 Bears).

Banks was LT-lite. Great player ... but always lived in the shadow of LT (and most at the time agreed that he lived off of the double and triple teams that LT got).

Pepper Johnson and Leonard Marshall are also never mentioned enough ... those guys were some of the best stalwart Giants defenders back then. If LT made the splashy plays, those guys did everything to help make it happen.

Morehead State
01-24-2012, 03:56 PM
Here's all you need to know about Phil Simms.</P>


In the late 80's, the NFL Today did a piece on "building the perfect QB". The "arm" was Dan Marino". The "legs" were Randall Cunningham. etc.</P>


</P>


The "heart" was Phil Simms.</P>

coachjdc
01-24-2012, 03:56 PM
My favorite LT story (2 actually): Eagles coach at the time, **** Vermeil was obsessed with him. Each week in the Eagle lockerroom he would hang press photos of the upcoming opponent's players. Each was an 8x10 head shot, except LT who had a life-sized poster (the origin of Fathead?)
He would also pound it into Jaws' head that he had to know where LT was on every snap- first thing when you get to the line, he HAD TO find LT. There's was a play where LT had to come out for a snap over something and when Jaws got to the line and couldn't locate LT in the defense, he called time out.

Roosevelt
01-24-2012, 03:57 PM
Elway and Simms were very good QBs.... both mentally and physically tough. However, the best QB in the 80's was .... hands down...... no contest....... Joe Montana.

Montana was great but he definitely was a part of a great system and very talented players.

rebelfan1966
01-24-2012, 03:59 PM
Elway and Simms were very good QBs.... both mentally and physically tough. However, the best QB in the 80's was .... hands down...... no contest....... Joe Montana.

Montana was great but he definitely was a part of a great system and very talented players.
</P>


True.... having players the quality of Jerry Rice on your team certainly helps.</P>

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Here's all you need to know about Phil Simms.</P>


In the late 80's, the NFL Today did a piece on "building the perfect QB".* The "arm" was Dan Marino".* The "legs" were Randall Cunningham.* etc.</P>


*</P>


The "heart" was Phil Simms.</P>

My favorite comments on Simms was during an Eagles game in 1988 where the commentator equated Simms scrambling to the Chrysler Building moving.

But yeah Phil was all heart.

That and he was the only Giant with the balls to yell back at Parcels ... their feuds were legendary.

threenout
01-24-2012, 04:11 PM
Simms really was never fully appreciated during his tenure with the Giants. He was a very accurate passer and a clutch performer. Really didn't have the numbers of the other top QB's because of the offenses that they ran and where they played.

There were a lot of lean years since Simms retired and until Eli arrived.

The Giant defense was very strong highlighted by their linebackers. LT was a rare talent and one of those players that redefines his position. Carson, Banks, Reasons, Johnson were very heady and tough players.

The coaching staff was filled with incredible talent from top to bottom.

G.I. Ants
01-24-2012, 04:15 PM
I'm 34 but what I remember from the 80's were good football years. The Bears defense was hard hitting and flat out dominant. The Jets had an elite pass rush with the NYSE (New York Sack Exchange), their pass rush was very similar to our herald D-Line today. SF just won games, Montana, Rice, RL42, they were the team to beat for many years. NFC East was by far the toughest division in football for the better part of 30 years from the 70's throughout 90's.

Now the GMen had it's ups and downs but they lived off that 3-4 Defense. They were the first team to dump Gatorade on the hot headed coach. Simms was the first guy to say I'm going to Disneyland. LT decided to be a freak of nature and just change the linebacker position altogether. The term Giant football seemed to be defined those years to represent this teams identity.

My personal favorite memories involve the hits like Jim Burt KOing Montana in 86 and Leonard Marshall hustle hit on Montana that probably beat the 49's in that championship game in 1990. Also Gary Reason's goaline hit on Bobby Humphrey was classic.

My love for this franchise developed when I was young in the early 80's and it has never gone away.

bigblue4417
01-24-2012, 04:19 PM
Here's all you need to know about Phil Simms.</p>


In the late 80's, the NFL Today did a piece on "building the perfect QB". The "arm" was Dan Marino". The "legs" were Randall Cunningham. etc.</p>


</p>


The "heart" was Phil Simms.</p>
I'm not sure you're old enough to be posting in here. Did you read the thread title?

G.I. Ants
01-24-2012, 04:22 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!

Giants fans HATED Simms because he wasn't like Montana/Marino/Elway/Kelly.

Even after winning the '86 Super Bowl there were a ton of shouts for his head.

Simms was an extremely accurate seam passer (his best throw) in a very conservative run-oriented offense. He had no scramble ability, an iffy offensive line but was a really great game manager (not the sexiest title to be stuck with as a QB).

When we won the 1990 Super Bowl, most fans (or at the very least, a sizable percentage of them) wanted Hostetler to take over permanently (I'm actrually fairly surprised he didn't).

Simms never had that break out year after '86, the way Eli is having it now. I often wonder what Simms' legacy would have been had he completed (and won) the 1990 season.

Watching Simms play however, you rarely worried about us turning over the ball ... although you didn't always have the greatest faith of him sustaining a drive.

LT was considered a god back in the 80s. All the praise you see lavished on him today is nothing compared to what was thought of him back in the day.

He was was the first player I've ever seen actively triple teamed and it was the only way to keep him from making a big play. Additionally, A LOT of his big plays came in times when you really needed them to which just added to his mystique.

Harry Carson who is never mentioned enough imo can be summed up with one phrase ... YOU SHALL NOT PASS. Best run stuffing LB I've ever seen (including any of the LBers on the '85 Bears).

Banks was LT-lite. Great player ... but always lived in the shadow of LT (and most at the time agreed that he lived off of the double and triple teams that LT got).

Pepper Johnson and Leonard Marshall are also never mentioned enough ... those guys were some of the best stalwart Giants defenders back then. If LT made the splashy plays, those guys did everything to help make it happen.Simms had a great year in that 90 season b4 he got injured.

Gianthunter
01-24-2012, 04:35 PM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB.

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 04:43 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!

Giants fans HATED Simms because he wasn't like Montana/Marino/Elway/Kelly.

Even after winning the '86 Super Bowl there were a ton of shouts for his head.

Simms was an extremely accurate seam passer (his best throw) in a very conservative run-oriented offense. He had no scramble ability, an iffy offensive line but was a really great game manager (not the sexiest title to be stuck with as a QB).

When we won the 1990 Super Bowl, most fans (or at the very least, a sizable percentage of them) wanted Hostetler to take over permanently (I'm actrually fairly surprised he didn't).

Simms never had that break out year after '86, the way Eli is having it now. I often wonder what Simms' legacy would have been had he completed (and won) the 1990 season.

Watching Simms play however, you rarely worried about us turning over the ball ... although you didn't always have the greatest faith of him sustaining a drive.

LT was considered a god back in the 80s. All the praise you see lavished on him today is nothing compared to what was thought of him back in the day.

He was was the first player I've ever seen actively triple teamed and it was the only way to keep him from making a big play. Additionally, A LOT of his big plays came in times when you really needed them to which just added to his mystique.

Harry Carson who is never mentioned enough imo can be summed up with one phrase ... YOU SHALL NOT PASS. Best run stuffing LB I've ever seen (including any of the LBers on the '85 Bears).

Banks was LT-lite. Great player ... but always lived in the shadow of LT (and most at the time agreed that he lived off of the double and triple teams that LT got).

Pepper Johnson and Leonard Marshall are also never mentioned enough ... those guys were some of the best stalwart Giants defenders back then. If LT made the splashy plays, those guys did everything to help make it happen.Simms had a great year in that 90 season b4 he got injured.


Yeah he was having another '86 type of year and it really would have been his coming out party (HoF nod, mentioned with the other great QBs of the time, etc ...).

I felt so bad for the guy because he had taken so much abuse (off and on the field) in his career.

As it was, he retired 9th on the all time passer list and held (and still holds) the Super Bowl completion record. I'm off the opinion that he should be in the HoF, but I can't say it's totally unbiased.

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 04:47 PM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB.

Actually they weren't. I've been a Giants fan since the mid-70s and Simms, while not lighting anyone's hair on fire, was at his worst, no different then the other shlubs we had QBing before him (Morton, Parsarcik and Brunner).

Going from Simms to Dave Brown ... now THAT was cringe-worthy.

SIMMS5611
01-24-2012, 04:50 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.</P>


Wasn't the rumor D.Kanell was sleeping w/the other QB's wife?</P>

CTLadyBlue
01-24-2012, 04:51 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.

Don't forget Ray Handley.

My goodness those were two years of my life I'll never get back.

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 04:54 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.</P>


Wasn't the rumor D.Kanell was sleeping w/the other QB's wife?</P>

other then the 90 team that 97 team was my favorite...picked to finish last by everyone..Kanell actually played well that year.

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.

Don't forget Ray Handley.

My goodness those were two years of my life I'll never get back.

agreed about Handley but I also hated the Reeves years too..other then 93 those years sucked imo.

Gianthunter
01-24-2012, 05:04 PM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB. Actually they weren't. I've been a Giants fan since the mid-70s and Simms, while not lighting anyone's hair on fire, was at his worst, no different then the other shlubs we had QBing before him (Morton, Parsarcik and Brunner). Going from Simms to Dave Brown ... now THAT was cringe-worthy.I'll take my own eyes and memory. The early Simms years consisted of two things. Injuries and inconsistentcy.

keyofgmen
01-24-2012, 05:05 PM
I was an early critic of Simms. And yes he did get hit (and hurt). I remember though..I was riding a ski chairlift with a Bears fan at the time and he said "you have a real QB". I thought about that and had to agree.
I go back further than Phil, of course. Saw Fran and company in Yankee Stadium. Fran was my favorite Giant as a kid, so maybe I was a bit tough on Simms.
Banks was a beast.

Elway started out badly, as he was one of 1st to refuse to play for team that drafted him..Colts. He got his SBs in the end. Would Simms have gotten 2 if not injured? Who knows?

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 05:08 PM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB. Actually they weren't. I've been a Giants fan since the mid-70s and Simms, while not lighting anyone's hair on fire, was at his worst, no different then the other shlubs we had QBing before him (Morton, Parsarcik and Brunner). Going from Simms to Dave Brown ... now THAT was cringe-worthy.I'll take my own eyes and memory. The early Simms years consisted of two things. Injuries and inconsistentcy.

Oh you're very right.

It just wasn't all that different from the preceeding Giants QBs of the time.

CTLadyBlue
01-24-2012, 05:08 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.

Don't forget Ray Handley.

My goodness those were two years of my life I'll never get back.

agreed about Handley but I also hated the Reeves years too..other then 93 those years sucked imo.

Naw, I actually liked Reeves. I remember after the Handley Horror when Reeves was brought in and took us all the way to an NFC East showdown with the Cowboys in the finale (you know - the infamous game where Emmitt Smith played with a separated shoulder?) and there was a fan holding up a sign in the stands saying , 'Thank You Dan Reeves'. I guess it was good to get back to Giant football after the two year disaster put us through. And I also remember LT in a pro bowl interview after that year saying, how the Giants were 'starving for a man like Dan Reeves'. He may have not been the greatest, but he brought pride back to that team the old school way - especially when he re-installed Simms as the starter after Handley demoted him in place of Hostetler. BAD move

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 05:10 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 05:10 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.

Don't forget Ray Handley.

My goodness those were two years of my life I'll never get back.

agreed about Handley but I also hated the Reeves years too..other then 93 those years sucked imo.

Naw, I actually liked Reeves. I remember after the Handley Horror when Reeves was brought in and took us all the way to an NFC East showdown with the Cowboys in the finale (you know - the infamous game where Emmitt Smith played with a separated shoulder?) and there was a fan holding up a sign in the stands saying , 'Thank You Dan Reeves'. I guess it was good to get back to Giant football after the two year disaster put us through. And I also remember LT in a pro bowl interview after that year saying, how the Giants were 'starving for a man like Dan Reeves'. He may have not been the greatest, but he brought pride back to that team the old school way - especially when he re-installed Simms as the starter after Handley demoted him in place of Hostetler. BAD move

too many ex-broncos on those teams for my taste

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.

Don't forget Ray Handley.

My goodness those were two years of my life I'll never get back.

agreed about Handley but I also hated the Reeves years too..other then 93 those years sucked imo.

What I hated most about the 90s was the inconsistancy.

You could see we had the talent ... everytime we got a new coach we went straight to the playoffs and then proceeded to underachieve the following couple of years.

Ernie replacing Young was a big reason why we finally started winning regularly again. And then TC/Reese put us back where we belonged ... as a perenially tough team.

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 05:15 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.

Don't forget Ray Handley.

My goodness those were two years of my life I'll never get back.

agreed about Handley but I also hated the Reeves years too..other then 93 those years sucked imo.

Naw, I actually liked Reeves. I remember after the Handley Horror when Reeves was brought in and took us all the way to an NFC East showdown with the Cowboys in the finale (you know - the infamous game where Emmitt Smith played with a separated shoulder?) and there was a fan holding up a sign in the stands saying , 'Thank You Dan Reeves'. I guess it was good to get back to Giant football after the two year disaster put us through. And I also remember LT in a pro bowl interview after that year saying, how the Giants were 'starving for a man like Dan Reeves'. He may have not been the greatest, but he brought pride back to that team the old school way - especially when he re-installed Simms as the starter after Handley demoted him in place of Hostetler. BAD move

Meh ... Reeves was responsible for getting rid of all of the 1990 players and why he eventually lost the team after 93.

That and his boy was Tommy Maddox ... not Simms. The reason he installed Simms was so he could jettison Hostetler (and he knew Simms only had a year or two left in him).

I loathe Reeves ... he completed what Handley started ... the dismantling of our dynasty team.

Gianthunter
01-24-2012, 05:15 PM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB. Actually they weren't. I've been a Giants fan since the mid-70s and Simms, while not lighting anyone's hair on fire, was at his worst, no different then the other shlubs we had QBing before him (Morton, Parsarcik and Brunner). Going from Simms to Dave Brown ... now THAT was cringe-worthy.I'll take my own eyes and memory. The early Simms years consisted of two things. Injuries and inconsistentcy. Oh you're very right. It just wasn't all that different from the preceeding Giants QBs of the time.Never claimed it was. Funny part is in the end Parcells was the one with egg on his face. Well that and some on Simms. He didn't want to be a Giant.

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 05:16 PM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB. Actually they weren't. I've been a Giants fan since the mid-70s and Simms, while not lighting anyone's hair on fire, was at his worst, no different then the other shlubs we had QBing before him (Morton, Parsarcik and Brunner). Going from Simms to Dave Brown ... now THAT was cringe-worthy.I'll take my own eyes and memory. The early Simms years consisted of two things. Injuries and inconsistentcy. Oh you're very right. It just wasn't all that different from the preceeding Giants QBs of the time.Never claimed it was. Funny part is in the end Parcells was the one with egg on his face. Well that and some on Simms. He didn't want to be a Giant.

Not sure I get that reference.

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 05:18 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</P>


Dark days indeed.

Don't forget Ray Handley.

My goodness those were two years of my life I'll never get back.

agreed about Handley but I also hated the Reeves years too..other then 93 those years sucked imo.

What I hated most about the 90s was the inconsistancy.

You could see we had the talent ... everytime we got a new coach we went straight to the playoffs and then proceeded to underachieve the following couple of years.

Ernie replacing Young was a big reason why we finally started winning regularly again. And then TC/Reese put us back where we belonged ... as a perenially tough team.

good point about going to the playoffs then underachieving the following years...after the 97 season It looked like the giants were going to go to the playoffs every year..the 98 and 99 seasons were major let downs imo.

THE_New_York_Giants
01-24-2012, 05:25 PM
LT was a football God. Every QB feared him and you could tell when they dropped back to pass they watched him more than their own receivers. Guys hated blocking him because most of the time they would end up on their butt. LT had an impact on defense that would be comparable to having JPP, Suh, Polamalu, and Ray Lewis on your defense and then some.
Simms got his butt kicked every sunday. Bavaro was a monster. The Giants should have run a wishbone offense back then the way they played...

Gianthunter
01-24-2012, 05:27 PM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB. Actually they weren't. I've been a Giants fan since the mid-70s and Simms, while not lighting anyone's hair on fire, was at his worst, no different then the other shlubs we had QBing before him (Morton, Parsarcik and Brunner). Going from Simms to Dave Brown ... now THAT was cringe-worthy.I'll take my own eyes and memory. The early Simms years consisted of two things. Injuries and inconsistentcy. Oh you're very right. It just wasn't all that different from the preceeding Giants QBs of the time.Never claimed it was. Funny part is in the end Parcells was the one with egg on his face. Well that and some on Simms. He didn't want to be a Giant. Not sure I get that reference.There was never any love lost between Parcells and Simms. And Simms would have prefered being drafted by San Fran and others before the Giants.

Roosevelt
01-24-2012, 05:51 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 05:55 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.


Imo Reeves was almost as bad as Handley..94,95, and 96 seasons were bad...I know they went 9-7 in 94 I believe but I was happy to see Reeves go.

TroyArcher
01-24-2012, 05:57 PM
Simms was treated worse than Eli early in his career. he had a few injuries and people were calling for Scott Bruner to play over Simms. Brunner wasn't a good QB, more of a game manager. Once Simms got healthy it was pretty clear he was the man. Simms was about as tough as you could get. he would literally wait until the last second to make a pass even knowing he was going to get pounded (very similar to Eli). He went toe to toe with Ronnie Lott once when Lott pulled some crap. I don't think Lott wanted any part of Simms. Elway was a great QB, have to admit better than Simms but not by much. </P>


The Giants defense of the early and mid-80's was one of the best I have ever seen. I think the 86 Defense wason par with the 85 Bears. I can't recall if it was 85 or 86 when the Giants Dknocked out something like 6 QB's. Banks, Carson, Taylor and Reasons was the best LB group IMO. </P>

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 06:01 PM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB. Actually they weren't. I've been a Giants fan since the mid-70s and Simms, while not lighting anyone's hair on fire, was at his worst, no different then the other shlubs we had QBing before him (Morton, Parsarcik and Brunner). Going from Simms to Dave Brown ... now THAT was cringe-worthy.I'll take my own eyes and memory. The early Simms years consisted of two things. Injuries and inconsistentcy. Oh you're very right. It just wasn't all that different from the preceeding Giants QBs of the time.Never claimed it was. Funny part is in the end Parcells was the one with egg on his face. Well that and some on Simms. He didn't want to be a Giant. Not sure I get that reference.There was never any love lost between Parcells and Simms. And Simms would have prefered being drafted by San Fran and others before the Giants.

Yeah the feuds between Simms and Parcels were fairly famous, but they were (and continue to be) fairly close.

I never heard that Simms wanted to be drafted by a particular team (especially San Fran who hadn't won a thing ever prior to Simms being drafted).

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 06:02 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.


*cough* Tommy Maddox *cough*

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 06:03 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.


Imo Reeves was almost as bad as Handley..94,95, and 96 seasons were bad...I know they went 9-7 in 94 I believe but I was happy to see Reeves go.

I think Rodney Hampton was even better than we thought...If you think about our offense in those years..he was the only real option and he still put up numbers...loved hampton.

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 06:04 PM
Simms was treated worse than Eli early in his career.* he had a few injuries and people were calling for Scott Bruner to play over Simms.* Brunner wasn't a good QB, more of a game manager.* Once Simms got healthy it was pretty clear he was the man.* Simms was about as tough as you could get.* he would literally wait until the last second to make a pass even knowing he was going to get pounded (very similar to Eli).* He went toe to toe with Ronnie Lott once when Lott pulled some crap. I don't think Lott wanted any part of Simms.* Elway was a great QB, have to admit better than Simms but not by much.* </P>


The Giants defense of the early and mid-80's was one of the best I have ever seen.* I think the 86 Defense was*on par with the 85 Bears.* I can't recall if it was 85 or 86 when the Giants D*knocked out something like 6 QB's.* Banks, Carson, Taylor and Reasons was the best LB group IMO.* </P>

'86 was when they knocked out 8 starting QBs out of the game they were playing at one point or another.

It was such an awesome year.

But no, as awesome (and mean) as the 86 Giants defense was, the '85 Bears was just plain scary.

The '85 Bears averaged letting up 13 points per game for the season; they only let up 20+ points 3 times that seasn, pitched 4 shutouts (including 2 in the playoffs) and gave up 10 points or less 13 times that year (including the whole post season).

I love the Giants, but you have to give credit where credit is due .... the '85 Bears defense was bar-none and inarguably THE BEST defense of all time (including the 86 Giants and '00 Ravens).

Kruunch
01-24-2012, 06:12 PM
I think Rodney Hampton was even better than we thought...If you think about our offense in those years..he was the only real option and he still put up numbers...loved hampton.

Hot Rod was awesome ... he just couldn't stay healthy (always nicked up).

BlueSanta
01-24-2012, 06:17 PM
What disgusts me is that my growing up in the Simms/ LT era has me in the "older fans" category.

I may need a hug.

TroyArcher
01-24-2012, 06:18 PM
Simms was treated worse than Eli early in his career. he had a few injuries and people were calling for Scott Bruner to play over Simms. Brunner wasn't a good QB, more of a game manager. Once Simms got healthy it was pretty clear he was the man. Simms was about as tough as you could get. he would literally wait until the last second to make a pass even knowing he was going to get pounded (very similar to Eli). He went toe to toe with Ronnie Lott once when Lott pulled some crap. I don't think Lott wanted any part of Simms. Elway was a great QB, have to admit better than Simms but not by much. </P>


The Giants defense of the early and mid-80's was one of the best I have ever seen. I think the 86 Defense wason par with the 85 Bears. I can't recall if it was 85 or 86 when the Giants Dknocked out something like 6 QB's. Banks, Carson, Taylor and Reasons was the best LB group IMO. </P>


'86 was when they knocked out 8 starting QBs out of the game they were playing at one point or another. It was such an awesome year. But no, as awesome (and mean) as the 86 Giants defense was, the '85 Bears was just plain scary. The '85 Bears averaged letting up 13 points per game for the season; they only let up 20+ points 3 times that seasn, pitched 4 shutouts (including 2 in the playoffs) and gave up 10 points or less 13 times that year (including the whole post season). I love the Giants, but you have to give credit where credit is due .... the '85 Bears defense was bar-none and inarguably THE BEST defense of all time (including the 86 Giants and '00 Ravens).</P>


</P>


The 86 Giants averaged giving up 14 points per game. Pretty close. </P>

Gianthunter
01-24-2012, 06:20 PM
What disgusts me is that my growing up in the Simms/ LT era has me in the "older fans" category.

I may need a hug.


Need some suspenders? I have extra.

GCGiant
01-24-2012, 06:21 PM
I would tell you but I'm getting so old that the memory...it comes and goes...but one thing I can tell you...beyond a shadow of doubt...

what were we talking about???

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 06:28 PM
I think Rodney Hampton was even better than we thought...If you think about our offense in those years..he was the only real option and he still put up numbers...loved hampton.

Hot Rod was awesome ... he just couldn't stay healthy (always nicked up).

he was 29th all time in rushing when he retired..he one of my favs

Shutupnplay
01-24-2012, 06:31 PM
Simms was a Great Field General!

SweetZombieJesus
01-24-2012, 06:35 PM
First, the game has changed.

First about LT. He was definitely the Giants star and a men amongst boys tearing up the league. Sometimes people tried to compare Ronnie Lott to his greatness (and Lott was a great safety) and some would try to compare Mike Singletary to him (and Singletary was a great LB) but LT was like an Alien came down and played football.

Simms had a rough start with the Giants fans but came of age in Super Bowl XXI with a 22-for-25 39 point performance that has not been equaled since. Simms by that point became a saavy cool-headed veteran.

Back in those days, the game was very different and offenses were nowhere near as prolific as today. Defenses today are hamstrung, you should watch the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls and you will see how different the play was. Guys were out to cripple Wide Receivers, today you can't breathe on them. Same with QBs, find the video of Leonard Marshall knocking out Joe Montana, today that hit would get you suspended and fined.

In that environment, Montana was the undisputed God of quarterbacks, nobody else was close. Then you had the demi-gods who always failed, like Elway (who went to 3 SBs and lost, but would get redeemed when he got a running game in 1998), Marino, Boomer Esiason, and in the early 90s Jim Kelly.

Simms was considered in the next rung, reliable and tough.

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.
But soon after Simms was forced out. We had what one good year with him?

Even back then when I started to watch the game, I was not happy about the signing. Figured he wouldn't work out, and he didn't.

And don't get me started on Ray Handley. Fassel and Kerry gave us hope even though it was every other year lol.

dabitduah
01-24-2012, 06:39 PM
Sims was a vocal leader who wasnt afraid to yell at his o-line for missed assignments. </P>


LT was a beast..i never worried with him in their , we had very strong line backers who could change any game on any play i preferred our defence to be on the field</P>


</P>


</P>

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 06:39 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.
But soon after Simms was forced out. We had what one good year with him?

Even back then when I started to watch the game, I was not happy about the signing. Figured he wouldn't work out, and he didn't.

not saying the giants would have gone back to the super bowl but IMO they would have made the playoffs in 91 and been a better team in 92 with phil in there...hampton was a beast those years so the running game was there...basically the same guys on defense although older.

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 06:40 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.


Imo Reeves was almost as bad as Handley..94,95, and 96 seasons were bad...I know they went 9-7 in 94 I believe but I was happy to see Reeves go.

I think Rodney Hampton was even better than we thought...If you think about our offense in those years..he was the only real option and he still put up numbers...loved hampton.I was sad too see him go as with Charles "show me the" Way

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 06:41 PM
What disgusts me is that my growing up in the Simms/ LT era has me in the "older fans" category.

I may need a hug.


I can give yea a hug. I feel yea pain.

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 06:42 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.


Imo Reeves was almost as bad as Handley..94,95, and 96 seasons were bad...I know they went 9-7 in 94 I believe but I was happy to see Reeves go.

I think Rodney Hampton was even better than we thought...If you think about our offense in those years..he was the only real option and he still put up numbers...loved hampton.I was sad too see him go as with Charles "show me the" Way

yea..we havent had a fullback that could do it all like way could since he left...granted we run an offense where blocking is more important but Loved what Way could do.

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 06:47 PM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.


Imo Reeves was almost as bad as Handley..94,95, and 96 seasons were bad...I know they went 9-7 in 94 I believe but I was happy to see Reeves go.

I think Rodney Hampton was even better than we thought...If you think about our offense in those years..he was the only real option and he still put up numbers...loved hampton.I was sad too see him go as with Charles "show me the" Way

yea..we havent had a fullback that could do it all like way could since he left...granted we run an offense where blocking is more important but Loved what Way could do.He actually ran it well, and blocked even better. While hedge**** and maybe hynoski shows promise, but I am still waiting on the next Charles Way. What a player.

Imagine the type of player he was that we are actually talking about him, and missing his type of game and ruggedness.

SweetZombieJesus
01-24-2012, 06:55 PM
I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Your memory's off a bit.

Dan Reeves came in in 1993 and that was Simms and LT's last year. Reeves put an end to the Hoss-Simms controversy and sent Hoss to the Raiders giving Simms the job. We lost that showdown for the NFC East against the Cowboys and headed to SF in the divisional round where they got destroyed. LT retired in the locker room following that game, made Wellington Mara cry. Simms would have shoulder surgery in the offseason, and this was also the beginning of the salary cap era so Reeves and George Young made a very difficult decision to cut Simms based on his salary cap hit, everybody was shocked including Simms. Another instance that made George Young and Wellington cry when they had to tell him.

They had drafted Dave Brown (a local kid from Westfield) and Kent Graham in the 1991 supplemental draft and they were thrust into the spotlight and Brown won the job. He wasn't very good but I have to give him credit he took his lumps and tried. He wasn't very good and the Giants weren't very good aside from Rodney Hampton and the defense.

Towards the end they started rotating in Kent Graham (and don't forget Dan Reeves' personal pet project from Denver, Tommy Maddox). When Fassel came in they cleaned house and it was Danny Kannel (and I thought Mike Cherry but maybe that was only a preseason fling) then they brought in Kerry Collins off the scrap heap.

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 07:00 PM
I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Your memory's off a bit.

Dan Reeves came in in 1993 and that was Simms and LT's last year.* Reeves put an end to the Hoss-Simms controversy and sent Hoss to the Raiders giving Simms the job.* We lost that showdown for the NFC East against the Cowboys and headed to SF in the divisional round where they got destroyed.* LT retired in the locker room following that game, made Wellington Mara cry.* Simms would have shoulder surgery in the offseason, and this was also the beginning of the salary cap era so Reeves and George Young made a very difficult decision to cut Simms based on his salary cap hit, everybody was shocked including Simms.* Another instance that made George Young and Wellington cry when they had to tell him.

They had drafted Dave Brown (a local kid from Westfield) and Kent Graham in the 1991 supplemental draft and they were thrust into the spotlight and Brown won the job.* He wasn't very good but I have to give him credit he took his lumps and tried.* He wasn't very good and the Giants weren't very good aside from Rodney Hampton and the defense.

Towards the end they started rotating in Kent Graham (and don't forget Dan Reeves' personal pet project from Denver, Tommy Maddox).* When Fassel came in they cleaned house and it was Danny Kannel (and I thought Mike Cherry but maybe that was only a preseason fling) then they brought in Kerry Collins off the scrap heap.


What about Stan White? still want to know why he didnt get a shot :)

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 07:02 PM
I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Your memory's off a bit.

Dan Reeves came in in 1993 and that was Simms and LT's last year.* Reeves put an end to the Hoss-Simms controversy and sent Hoss to the Raiders giving Simms the job.* We lost that showdown for the NFC East against the Cowboys and headed to SF in the divisional round where they got destroyed.* LT retired in the locker room following that game, made Wellington Mara cry.* Simms would have shoulder surgery in the offseason, and this was also the beginning of the salary cap era so Reeves and George Young made a very difficult decision to cut Simms based on his salary cap hit, everybody was shocked including Simms.* Another instance that made George Young and Wellington cry when they had to tell him.

They had drafted Dave Brown (a local kid from Westfield) and Kent Graham in the 1991 supplemental draft and they were thrust into the spotlight and Brown won the job.* He wasn't very good but I have to give him credit he took his lumps and tried.* He wasn't very good and the Giants weren't very good aside from Rodney Hampton and the defense.

Towards the end they started rotating in Kent Graham (and don't forget Dan Reeves' personal pet project from Denver, Tommy Maddox).* When Fassel came in they cleaned house and it was Danny Kannel (and I thought Mike Cherry but maybe that was only a preseason fling) then they brought in Kerry Collins off the scrap heap.
While you may be right that I could be a bit off from the early 90's I will tell you what I recall.

I heard or I think I heard that LT was not happy with Reeves and the way it all went down (could be wrong), so he decided to retire (Similar to tiki maybe, except he still loved the team and the guys).

But Reeves (again if I recall) told the Maras he wanted to cut Simms, and Mara being the anti-JJ hated it, but let him do it, as he was the coach. Yet he would of still stayed a Giant and played if it was not for Reeves move.

I recall all the rest. We were losing for many years because of what Reeves did. He tried to recreate denver here.

ErnieReese
01-24-2012, 07:30 PM
Wow, guys. Thanks for responding and for giving the suggestions. I'll definitely check out the different videos you guys suggested. It definitely gives me a lot more perspective and much more respect to those before this generation of players.

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 07:41 PM
Wow, guys. Thanks for responding and for giving the suggestions. I'll definitely check out the different videos you guys suggested. It definitely gives me a lot more perspective and much more respect to those before this generation of players.
Hope you enjoyed the run in 07, and if not soak this run up. Because for a good amount of us fans, we really suffered for about a dozen or so years. But the fans of the 60's through early 80's really suffered through a lot more. Not sure how the could handle it.

At least I had 86, I recall 90 better, but then the 2000 Bust, then the miracle in 07, and now this year.

Come to think of it. A good deal of us had a chance to see all those SBs. WoW if you really think about it.

ErnieReese
01-24-2012, 07:53 PM
Read each of the posts. Great stuff. Makes you wanna be talking to everyone in-person over a nice drink. Thanks again!

JMGGIANTS
01-24-2012, 07:59 PM
One of the biggest myths ever and one that irritates me to no end is when so called football people say "LT was just a pass rusher". That big buffoon from Pittsburgh AM radio(Mark Madden) is the most annoying SOB on the planet. On the NFL Network show "The top 10 greates linebackers" he says itmore than once "LT was just a pass rusher" and contends Jack Ham and Jack Lambert were better than LT against the run....total bull crap.</P>


I got news for you LT was so great against the run that at first teams tried to run away from him which backfired because LT was so fast he would run everything down from the backside. Eventually the only chance a team had was to run at LT. New blocking schemes were designed as a result of LT.</P>


Because of LT and his incrediblepass rush off the line of scrimmage where he wold line up outside of the tacklefor the first time NFL teams started lining up the tackleusing very wide splitsoff the guard postion. For the first time in the NFL at times LT was tripled team, yes tripled team. You couldn't use a back to block LT as well.</P>


Now for the other Madden, the knowledgeable one as in John Madden. He says LT is the greatest defensive player ever. Coming from John Madden who coached awesome Raider defensive teams is saying a lot.</P>

upstart
01-24-2012, 08:01 PM
Do any of you Guy remember Joe McLaughlin LB /ST played back in the 1980's ?

SweetZombieJesus
01-24-2012, 08:28 PM
While you may be right that I could be a bit off from the early 90's I will tell you what I recall.

I heard or I think I heard that LT was not happy with Reeves and the way it all went down (could be wrong), so he decided to retire (Similar to tiki maybe, except he still loved the team and the guys).

From what I remember at the time LT was very concerned about knowing when the right time was to retire, and knowing when your heart is no longer in it. The 49er loss was a beating (44-3) and he knew after that game it was time to go. Could he have played another few years? Probably. But he was a shadow of his former self in 1991, 1992, and 1993, the injuries having taken a toll and his speed having lost a step. Someone else just recently brought up retiring a year too early instead of a year too late, and I think that applied to LT.


But Reeves (again if I recall) told the Maras he wanted to cut Simms, and Mara being the anti-JJ hated it, but let him do it, as he was the coach. Yet he would of still stayed a Giant and played if it was not for Reeves move.

I recall all the rest. We were losing for many years because of what Reeves did. He tried to recreate denver here.

Then as now, the coach has input but it's the GM's decision. Based on the risky shoulder surgery and Phil's big salary, George Young made the tough choice and cut Phil. Phil was shocked because the surgery had gone well and he was rehabbing at the Giants facility in the offseason -- coming off a pro-bowl 1993 season. Many would say Phil Simms is the first big casualty of the salary cap era. George Young also lost his magic here as the Giants post XXV were decimated by losing players and coaches. He just did not adapt to free agency well at all.

Phil came very close to signing on with Bill Belichick in Cleveland but in the end retired.

I do remember George Young and Wellington Mara being reported to have cried when they had to tell Phil he was cut.

DragonSoul
01-24-2012, 08:34 PM
While you may be right that I could be a bit off from the early 90's I will tell you what I recall.

I heard or I think I heard that LT was not happy with Reeves and the way it all went down (could be wrong), so he decided to retire (Similar to tiki maybe, except he still loved the team and the guys).

From what I remember at the time LT was very concerned about knowing when the right time was to retire, and knowing when your heart is no longer in it.* The 49er loss was a beating (44-3) and he knew after that game it was time to go.* Could he have played another few years?* Probably.* But he was a shadow of his former self in 1991, 1992, and 1993, the injuries having taken a toll and his speed having lost a step.* Someone else just recently brought up retiring a year too early instead of a year too late, and I think that applied to LT.


But Reeves (again if I recall) told the Maras he wanted to cut Simms, and Mara being the anti-JJ hated it, but let him do it, as he was the coach. Yet he would of still stayed a Giant and played if it was not for Reeves move.

I recall all the rest. We were losing for many years because of what Reeves did. He tried to recreate denver here.

Then as now, the coach has input but it's the GM's decision.* Based on the risky shoulder surgery and Phil's big salary, George Young made the tough choice and cut Phil.* Phil was shocked because the surgery had gone well and he was rehabbing at the Giants facility in the offseason.* Many would say Phil Simms is the first big casualty of the salary cap era.* George Young also lost his magic here as the Giants post XXV were decimated by losing players and coaches.* He just did not adapt to free agency well at all.

Phil came very close to signing on with Bill Belichick in Cleveland but in the end retired.

I do remember George Young and Wellington Mara being reported to have cried when they had to tell Phil he was cut.
I think your right on. I think w/a different outcome LT may have come back, but I agree you cannot blame him for leaving early.

My bigger issue was with Simms. If reeves kept his mouth shut Simms would have stayed & then we could have seen if he had anything left. It could have worked much better then it did.

That is on Reeves. As you said the GM/Owner pull the trigger but that was aimed, ****ed and forced by the hand Reeves imho. If reeves didn't ask 4 it you know they wouldn't have done it. And yes I heard they cried as well. Which I also feel shows it was something they didn't want to do, but did due to the coach.

Voldamort
01-24-2012, 08:41 PM
1.LT is the best player ever,he gave us a chance to win every time he was out on the field!
2.Banks in 86' playoffs,played the3 best playoff games ever by a linebacker.
3.Simms never had the wr's,he had a running game and tightend,but if he played today he would be top five!!! Warrior I loved all of this group of player's they all had heart and played with Giant Pride!!!

JMGGIANTS
01-24-2012, 08:47 PM
Our WR's weren't half bad. We had Lionel Manuel, Stacey Robinson, Stephen Baker, Odessa Turner, Mark Ingram, Phil McConkey.

Morris82
01-24-2012, 09:00 PM
one of the toughest games i have seen was the g men against the 85/86 bears in chicago -0 degrees NFC championship game. phil did not have a good game but knew we were dam good and would be back next year and we were s/b champs .

JMGGIANTS
01-24-2012, 09:07 PM
yep remember it was so windy Sean Lendetta wiffed on the punt. The ball dropped at his feet. First and only time I saw a punter completely miss the ball LOL.

Morris82
01-24-2012, 09:13 PM
whats funny is it was colder in green bay in 07 but that bear defense was just frickin unstoppable i think they called it a 4-6.

THE_New_York_Giants
01-24-2012, 09:14 PM
Lawrence Taylor was the greatest football player ever. No doubt in my mind. He was the greatest ever, and when he got pissed off, he was an unstoppable force and an immovable object combined into one. Every player feared getting hit by him and you could tell by the way they ran.

THE_New_York_Giants
01-24-2012, 09:14 PM
Our WR's weren't half bad.* We had Lionel Manuel, Stacey Robinson, Stephen Baker, Odessa Turner, Mark Ingram, Phil McConkey.
Hixon would have been a super star receiver on that team.. Cruz would have easily put up 2000 yards. Barden is better than those guys were.

fletch842
01-24-2012, 09:28 PM
There were some great football during that decade. </P>


LT was the best player I have ever saw, he was by far the greatest defensive player that has ever played this game. </P>


Banks was a great player, he was the prototype strong side linebacker. </P>


Simms was a great Giant, he was tough, resilient, smart, a leader. </P>


That beating you saw Eli take against the 49ers last Sunday, Simms took that almost every game of his career. Those were the days you can kill a qb.</P>


To this day, I don't think any qb has played a better game then Simms did in super bowl XXI. He was perfect. 22 for 25 with 2 dropped passes. </P>


I don't like comparing players to todays game, different rules.**</P>


*</P>

Agreed for the most part...but you're definately exagerating on the beatings Simms took. He took some serious beatings but not like that on a weekly basis.
When Simms retired he was the most sacked qb in the history of the NFL. That number has since been surpassed, but just sayin.

daynemustgo
01-24-2012, 09:31 PM
Our WR's weren't half bad.* We had Lionel Manuel, Stacey Robinson, Stephen Baker, Odessa Turner, Mark Ingram, Phil McConkey.

Phil was working with a Ford and Eli has a Ferrari with Cruz, Mario and Nicks

allentown PA
01-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Our WR's weren't half bad.* We had Lionel Manuel, Stacey Robinson, Stephen Baker, Odessa Turner, Mark Ingram, Phil McConkey.
Hixon would have been a super star receiver on that team.. Cruz would have easily put up 2000 yards. Barden is better than those guys were. barden is not better than any of those guys..not even robinson who was ****

THE_New_York_Giants
01-25-2012, 12:14 AM
Our WR's weren't half bad.* We had Lionel Manuel, Stacey Robinson, Stephen Baker, Odessa Turner, Mark Ingram, Phil McConkey.
Hixon would have been a super star receiver on that team.. Cruz would have easily put up 2000 yards. Barden is better than those guys were. barden is not better than any of those guys..not even robinson who was ****
If we had those receivers today, we would have gone 1-15

buffyblue
01-25-2012, 12:50 AM
Phil Simms was a tough SOB and a really good QB. He was great in the clutch. However he is not in the same class as Eli Manning.
Eli Manning is far and away the greatest QB in NY Giants history.

Mark Bavarro was special. A clutch TE. He would make a catch get smashed and just get up like nothing happenned. Look at how Eli Manning took his beating against San Francisco 49ers last Sunday and that is how Mark Bavarro was. Like Eli Manning he didnít flinch and he didnít let it phase him.

Lawrence Taylor (LT) was the greatest defensive player I have ever seen. He may have also been the greatest football player I have ever seen. His combination of strength and speed was uncanny. He played the game with reckless abandon and he made everyone around him better. He dictated how games were played. It was a privaledge to have seen him play live.

A lot of folks want to harp on how much the game has changed but it really hasnít changed all that much since the 1980s. Sure there have been some rules that have benefited QBs now but there have been some that have hindered them also. The QBs are just better today than they have ever been.

I bELIeve.

THE_New_York_Giants
01-25-2012, 12:52 AM
Phil Simms was a tough SOB and a really good QB. He was great in the clutch. However he is not in the same class as Eli Manning.
Eli Manning is far and away the greatest QB in NY Giants history.

Mark Bavarro was special. A clutch TE. He would make a catch get smashed and just get up like nothing happenned. Look at how Eli Manning took his beating against San Francisco 49ers last Sunday and that is how Mark Bavarro was. Like Eli Manning he didnít flinch and he didnít let it phase him.

Lawrence Taylor (LT) was the greatest defensive player I have ever seen. He may have also been the greatest football player I have ever seen. His combination of strength and speed was uncanny. He played the game with reckless abandon and he made everyone around him better. He dictated how games were played. It was a privaledge to have seen him play live.

A lot of folks want to harp on how much the game has changed but it really hasnít changed all that much since the 1980s. Sure there have been some rules that have benefited QBs now but there have been some that have hindered them also. The QBs are just better today than they have ever been.

I bELIeve.
Connerly was great. So was Tittle. I hated that we traded Tarkenton back to Minnesota too.

YATittle1962
01-25-2012, 01:09 AM
Simms.....took a lot of hits....earned his respect in NY the hard way.....never really had many guys to throw to .......handed the ball off A LOT.......tough as nails just not as durable as Eli......threw with plenty zip, a really nice ball ........firey guy, would get in guys faces, Ronnie Lott for one.......stood tall in the pocket to the very last second much like Eli did Sunday when he got that deep ball to Bradshaw and took a big hit ..........Simms and Mark Bavaro had something very special and always seemed to make magical connections



LT.....a man that big shouldnt be able to move that fast......he was a hunter......would abandon game plans to rush the passer on his own.......Joe Gibbs had to re revolutionize blocking schemes in pro football to try to figure out how to slow him down because he couldnt be stopped......would also catch teams off guard by occasionally dropping into coverage when they thought for sure he was coming......there are a lot of guys on those teams that deserve a lot of credit for doing their jobs so LT could be LT



Elway..........GUN........guts........scary ......

TrueBlue88
01-25-2012, 01:18 AM
There's a certain level of greatness one can achieve by entering the NFL and excelling at their position, performing in much the same manner as those before him had done, only better....

Then there are those rare instances when someone enters the NFL, rewrites the rules, and forever revolutionizes the way his position is played. The ones who draw the blueprints for the new paradigm, set the new standard, and watch as those who follow try to emulate what he has created....

Such was the case with LT.

Bohemian
01-25-2012, 02:05 AM
I am very excited about talking about those 80s and 90s teams. I have to say that the whole NFC east was a platform of championship teams. The Giants have always clearly been the cream of the crop, then you have the Redskins and Dallas Cowboys trading spots for second place, and lastly the Eagles with their Buddy Ryan defense was dishing blows to whomever they played.

The Dallas Cowboys had a great dynasty for a few years, but after their core left, plus their crazy owner completely destroyed everything that he constructed. Jerry Jones is an absolute pendejo.

The Redskins are definitely the second best organization during those days in the division, as they always had great stability in their coaching staff, while at the same time showing great pride and dedication to maintaining their winning ways. Once Joe Gibbs left, all of that pride and dedication left with him.

The Eagles were always that team that showed insane potential, but could never find that missing piece to complete the championship puzzle. Randall Cunningham was an amazing quarterback, R. Jackson was one of the top TEs of his day (a predecessor Tony Gonzales and Gates), and a defense led by Reggie White that just cleaned your clock every single time you faced them. That defense was insane. I still remember watching Phil Simms getting absolutely destroyed by Philadelphia, and hoping that he could last the whole game. The Eagles always found a way of running out of gas and never really becoming a playoff contender.

The Giants, under Bill Parcells, made the Superbowl every decade with different rosters, but always with the same core. His offense was always predictable and slow, but you knew that they would still run people over because they just seemed to be stronger and more consistent than everyone else. Bill Belichick as a defensive coordinator was unbelievable, and as you can see today, all of the coaches that worked under Parcells have become important coaches in the league.

LT was easily the greatest Giant. No debate there. But it was the OLine that just dominated year in and year out. The weakest part of the team, as I remember them, was the receiving core. They really never had a probowl type receiver. But we did have Mark Bavaro, and the man seemed to just take care of business by punishing with both, his blocking and plowing over would-be tacklers. If you go back and look at Phil Simms stats, you will right away see that he was an amazing field general.

I may write about those days later on.

Go Blue!

G.I. Ants
01-25-2012, 02:13 AM
I am very excited about talking about those 80s and 90s teams. I have to say that the whole NFC east was a platform of championship teams. The Giants have always clearly been the cream of the crop, then you have the Redskins and Dallas Cowboys trading spots for second place, and lastly the Eagles with their Buddy Ryan defense was dishing blows to whomever they played.

The Dallas Cowboys had a great dynasty for a few years, but after their core left, plus their crazy owner completely destroyed everything that he constructed. Jerry Jones is an absolute pendejo.

The Redskins are definitely the second best organization during those days in the division, as they always had great stability in their coaching staff, while at the same time showing great pride and dedication to maintaining their winning ways. Once Joe Gibbs left, all of that pride and dedication left with him.

The Eagles were always that team that showed insane potential, but could never find that missing piece to complete the championship puzzle. Randall Cunningham was an amazing quarterback, R. Jackson was one of the top TEs of his day (a predecessor Tony Gonzales and Gates), and a defense led by Reggie White that just cleaned your clock every single time you faced them. That defense was insane. I still remember watching Phil Simms getting absolutely destroyed by Philadelphia, and hoping that he could last the whole game. The Eagles always found a way of running out of gas and never really becoming a playoff contender.

The Giants, under Bill Parcells, made the Superbowl every decade with different rosters, but always with the same core. His offense was always predictable and slow, but you knew that they would still run people over because they just seemed to be stronger and more consistent than everyone else. Bill Belichick as a defensive coordinator was unbelievable, and as you can see today, all of the coaches that worked under Parcells have become important coaches in the league.

LT was easily the greatest Giant. No debate there. But it was the OLine that just dominated year in and year out. The weakest part of the team, as I remember them, was the receiving core. They really never had a probowl type receiver. But we did have Mark Bavaro, and the man seemed to just take care of business by punishing with both, his blocking and plowing over would-be tacklers. If you go back and look at Phil Simms stats, you will right away see that he was an amazing field general.

I may write about those days later on.

Go Blue!
True Indeed. I stated briefly earlier in this post about the NFC East being the toughest division in football for decades. The last game brought back many memories of our rivalry with SF, good and bad.

JJC7301
01-25-2012, 02:21 AM
I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Your memory's off a bit.

Dan Reeves came in in 1993 and that was Simms and LT's last year.* Reeves put an end to the Hoss-Simms controversy and sent Hoss to the Raiders giving Simms the job.* We lost that showdown for the NFC East against the Cowboys and headed to SF in the divisional round where they got destroyed.* LT retired in the locker room following that game, made Wellington Mara cry.* Simms would have shoulder surgery in the offseason, and this was also the beginning of the salary cap era so Reeves and George Young made a very difficult decision to cut Simms based on his salary cap hit, everybody was shocked including Simms.* Another instance that made George Young and Wellington cry when they had to tell him.

They had drafted Dave Brown (a local kid from Westfield) and Kent Graham in the 1991 supplemental draft and they were thrust into the spotlight and Brown won the job.* He wasn't very good but I have to give him credit he took his lumps and tried.* He wasn't very good and the Giants weren't very good aside from Rodney Hampton and the defense.

Towards the end they started rotating in Kent Graham (and don't forget Dan Reeves' personal pet project from Denver, Tommy Maddox).* When Fassel came in they cleaned house and it was Danny Kannel (and I thought Mike Cherry but maybe that was only a preseason fling) then they brought in Kerry Collins off the scrap heap.
While you may be right that I could be a bit off from the early 90's I will tell you what I recall.

I heard or I think I heard that LT was not happy with Reeves and the way it all went down (could be wrong), so he decided to retire (Similar to tiki maybe, except he still loved the team and the guys).

But Reeves (again if I recall) told the Maras he wanted to cut Simms, and Mara being the anti-JJ hated it, but let him do it, as he was the coach. Yet he would of still stayed a Giant and played if it was not for Reeves move.

I recall all the rest. We were losing for many years because of what Reeves did. He tried to recreate denver here.
Well put about Dan Reeves, DragonSoul -- he tried to recreate the Broncos. But I give him props for taking us back to the playoffs after the the disasterous Handley years.

And poor Handley didn't even want the job. After SB 25, Belichick had just taken the Browns job and Tuna retired soon afterwards. I could be wrong, but I think Al Groh and Coughlin had even moved on by that point. Basically, our coaching staff was already decimated by other job offers, and Handley took it because he was the last coach standing. He didn't even want the responsibility.

The '90s (after SB 25) were a LEAN decade. Most of it was because we didn't have a quality QB in between Simms and Collins -- and thank God we got Collins. Possibly the best FA signing the Giants ever made.

DragonSoul
01-25-2012, 02:26 AM
I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Your memory's off a bit.

Dan Reeves came in in 1993 and that was Simms and LT's last year.* Reeves put an end to the Hoss-Simms controversy and sent Hoss to the Raiders giving Simms the job.* We lost that showdown for the NFC East against the Cowboys and headed to SF in the divisional round where they got destroyed.* LT retired in the locker room following that game, made Wellington Mara cry.* Simms would have shoulder surgery in the offseason, and this was also the beginning of the salary cap era so Reeves and George Young made a very difficult decision to cut Simms based on his salary cap hit, everybody was shocked including Simms.* Another instance that made George Young and Wellington cry when they had to tell him.

They had drafted Dave Brown (a local kid from Westfield) and Kent Graham in the 1991 supplemental draft and they were thrust into the spotlight and Brown won the job.* He wasn't very good but I have to give him credit he took his lumps and tried.* He wasn't very good and the Giants weren't very good aside from Rodney Hampton and the defense.

Towards the end they started rotating in Kent Graham (and don't forget Dan Reeves' personal pet project from Denver, Tommy Maddox).* When Fassel came in they cleaned house and it was Danny Kannel (and I thought Mike Cherry but maybe that was only a preseason fling) then they brought in Kerry Collins off the scrap heap.
While you may be right that I could be a bit off from the early 90's I will tell you what I recall.

I heard or I think I heard that LT was not happy with Reeves and the way it all went down (could be wrong), so he decided to retire (Similar to tiki maybe, except he still loved the team and the guys).

But Reeves (again if I recall) told the Maras he wanted to cut Simms, and Mara being the anti-JJ hated it, but let him do it, as he was the coach. Yet he would of still stayed a Giant and played if it was not for Reeves move.

I recall all the rest. We were losing for many years because of what Reeves did. He tried to recreate denver here.
Well put about Dan Reeves, DragonSoul -- he tried to recreate the Broncos. But I give him props for taking us back to the playoffs after the the disasterous Handley years.

And poor Handley didn't even want the job. After SB 25, Belichick had just taken the Browns job and Tuna retired soon afterwards. I could be wrong, but I think Al Groh and Coughlin had even moved on by that point. Basically, our coaching staff was already decimated by other job offers, and Handley took it because he was the last coach standing. He didn't even want the responsibility.

The '90s (after SB 25) were a LEAN decade. Most of it was because we didn't have a quality QB in between Simms and Collins -- and thank God we got Collins. Possibly the best FA signing the Giants ever made.That is why when we drafted ELI I was all for it. Also if it turned out we would get Benk then I was up for it, but I wanted Eli more so then Ben, based on what I read/heard.

JMFP2
01-25-2012, 02:32 AM
There were some great football during that decade. </P>


LT was the best player I have ever saw, he was by far the greatest defensive player that has ever played this game. </P>


Banks was a great player, he was the prototype strong side linebacker. </P>


Simms was a great Giant, he was tough, resilient, smart, a leader. </P>


That beating you saw Eli take against the 49ers last Sunday, Simms took that almost every game of his career. Those were the days you can kill a qb.</P>


To this day, I don't think any qb has played a better game then Simms did in super bowl XXI. He was perfect. 22 for 25 with 2 dropped passes. </P>


I don't like comparing players to todays game, different rules.</P>


</P>


</P>


Agreed on all counts.</P>


As far as Phil Simms is concerned, I wasa big Simms fan, but I remember a ton of fans disliked him. Maybe that's why I became an early Eli Manning supporter....alot of fans didn't give Simms a chance, and I felt it was history repeating itself with Eli early in his career.</P>

JJC7301
01-25-2012, 02:35 AM
I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day.

Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Your memory's off a bit.

Dan Reeves came in in 1993 and that was Simms and LT's last year.* Reeves put an end to the Hoss-Simms controversy and sent Hoss to the Raiders giving Simms the job.* We lost that showdown for the NFC East against the Cowboys and headed to SF in the divisional round where they got destroyed.* LT retired in the locker room following that game, made Wellington Mara cry.* Simms would have shoulder surgery in the offseason, and this was also the beginning of the salary cap era so Reeves and George Young made a very difficult decision to cut Simms based on his salary cap hit, everybody was shocked including Simms.* Another instance that made George Young and Wellington cry when they had to tell him.

They had drafted Dave Brown (a local kid from Westfield) and Kent Graham in the 1991 supplemental draft and they were thrust into the spotlight and Brown won the job.* He wasn't very good but I have to give him credit he took his lumps and tried.* He wasn't very good and the Giants weren't very good aside from Rodney Hampton and the defense.

Towards the end they started rotating in Kent Graham (and don't forget Dan Reeves' personal pet project from Denver, Tommy Maddox).* When Fassel came in they cleaned house and it was Danny Kannel (and I thought Mike Cherry but maybe that was only a preseason fling) then they brought in Kerry Collins off the scrap heap.
While you may be right that I could be a bit off from the early 90's I will tell you what I recall.

I heard or I think I heard that LT was not happy with Reeves and the way it all went down (could be wrong), so he decided to retire (Similar to tiki maybe, except he still loved the team and the guys).

But Reeves (again if I recall) told the Maras he wanted to cut Simms, and Mara being the anti-JJ hated it, but let him do it, as he was the coach. Yet he would of still stayed a Giant and played if it was not for Reeves move.

I recall all the rest. We were losing for many years because of what Reeves did. He tried to recreate denver here.
Well put about Dan Reeves, DragonSoul -- he tried to recreate the Broncos. But I give him props for taking us back to the playoffs after the the disasterous Handley years.

And poor Handley didn't even want the job. After SB 25, Belichick had just taken the Browns job and Tuna retired soon afterwards. I could be wrong, but I think Al Groh and Coughlin had even moved on by that point. Basically, our coaching staff was already decimated by other job offers, and Handley took it because he was the last coach standing. He didn't even want the responsibility.

The '90s (after SB 25) were a LEAN decade. Most of it was because we didn't have a quality QB in between Simms and Collins -- and thank God we got Collins. Possibly the best FA signing the Giants ever made.That is why when we drafted ELI I was all for it. Also if it turned out we would get back then I was up for it, but I wanted Eli more so then Ben, based on what I read/heard.
I was all for getting a QB in '04 because we had the # 4 pick and we were in position to draft our QB for the next 15 years -- if you have that opportunity you HAVE to take it. I had no problem trading up to get Eli because I felt that getting a QB for the future was huge and if Accorsi felt that he wanted Manning, then pull the trigger. Honestly, I would have been fine staying put at # 4 and drafting Ben or Rivers -- but I'm sure glad Accorsi pulled that trigger.

Another reason why the '90s were so lean was our HORRIBLE drafting -- especially in the 1st round. Year after year after year we took busts like Dave Brown (QB), Jarrod Bunch (RB), Derek Brown (TE), Thomas Lewis (WR), Tyrone Wheatley (RB), Cedric Jones (DE)...it really hurt our development. George Young waited too long to retire, IMO. Those 1st round picks were all based on NEED instead of talent / value...I think we've learned our lesson since then. Our 2nd round picks tended to be awesome during that decade -- Strahan, Toomer, and Sehorn amongst others.

JJC7301
01-25-2012, 02:38 AM
There were some great football during that decade. </P>


LT was the best player I have ever saw, he was by far the greatest defensive player that has ever played this game. </P>


Banks was a great player, he was the prototype strong side linebacker. </P>


Simms was a great Giant, he was tough, resilient, smart, a leader. </P>


That beating you saw Eli take against the 49ers last Sunday, Simms took that almost every game of his career. Those were the days you can kill a qb.</P>


To this day, I don't think any qb has played a better game then Simms did in super bowl XXI. He was perfect. 22 for 25 with 2 dropped passes. </P>


I don't like comparing players to todays game, different rules.**</P>


</P>


*</P>


Agreed on all counts.</P>


As far as Phil Simms is concerned, I was*a big Simms fan, but I remember a ton of fans disliked him.* Maybe that's why I became an early Eli Manning supporter....alot of fans didn't give Simms a chance, and I felt it was history repeating itself with Eli early in his career.</P>
Eli's treatment was very similar to Simms, but Simms was always injured the first 4 years of his career so people were frustrated. And Simms never had the WRs that Eli had.

Giant fans sure missed Simms after he was gone.

JMFP2
01-25-2012, 02:39 AM
All true.

DragonSoul
01-25-2012, 02:44 AM
There were some great football during that decade. </P>


LT was the best player I have ever saw, he was by far the greatest defensive player that has ever played this game. </P>


Banks was a great player, he was the prototype strong side linebacker. </P>


Simms was a great Giant, he was tough, resilient, smart, a leader. </P>


That beating you saw Eli take against the 49ers last Sunday, Simms took that almost every game of his career. Those were the days you can kill a qb.</P>


To this day, I don't think any qb has played a better game then Simms did in super bowl XXI. He was perfect. 22 for 25 with 2 dropped passes. </P>


I don't like comparing players to todays game, different rules.**</P>


</P>


*</P>


Agreed on all counts.</P>


As far as Phil Simms is concerned, I was*a big Simms fan, but I remember a ton of fans disliked him.* Maybe that's why I became an early Eli Manning supporter....alot of fans didn't give Simms a chance, and I felt it was history repeating itself with Eli early in his career.</P>Dont forget Ewing as well. Really sad.

SweetZombieJesus
01-25-2012, 04:17 AM
Well put about Dan Reeves, DragonSoul -- he tried to recreate the Broncos. But I give him props for taking us back to the playoffs after the the disasterous Handley years.

And poor Handley didn't even want the job. After SB 25, Belichick had just taken the Browns job and Tuna retired soon afterwards. I could be wrong, but I think Al Groh and Coughlin had even moved on by that point. Basically, our coaching staff was already decimated by other job offers, and Handley took it because he was the last coach standing. He didn't even want the responsibility.

It's worse than that. Bill Parcells actively screwed the Giants. It taints all the good things he did here; I know it left a bitter taste in my mouth, that's for sure, and he repeated the burn with the Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins (I can go into it if people want).

Sports reporters say he was saying he was going to quit in the building (Tampa) before the Super Bowl. After the win, the coaching staff got raided. Among others, Belichick got the head coaching job at Cleveland and Coughlin got the head coaching job at Boston College. All those other usual suspects like Romeo Crennel moved on too. Nobody was left.

But Bill didn't quit.

Neither did he start bringing in new coaches.

The team was in limbo.

Bill was still around during the draft. And during rookie mini camp. For a football team the season really starts in draft preparation, so to the Maras Bill was staying.

And THEN he quit. In late May. When it's too late to bring in a new coaching staff.

Ray Handley may have sucked but he was the last guy in the room when they turned on the lights. And he manned up and took the job that was way, way over his head.

This is Bill Parcells' fault. He would go on to screw the Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins in similar fashion. That's the downside of Bill Parcells.

JMFP2
01-25-2012, 04:24 AM
Well put about Dan Reeves, DragonSoul -- he tried to recreate the Broncos. But I give him props for taking us back to the playoffs after the the disasterous Handley years. And poor Handley didn't even want the job. After SB 25, Belichick had just taken the Browns job and Tuna retired soon afterwards. I could be wrong, but I think Al Groh and Coughlin had even moved on by that point. Basically, our coaching staff was already decimated by other job offers, and Handley took it because he was the last coach standing. He didn't even want the responsibility.

It's worse than that. Bill Parcells actively screwed the Giants. It taints all the good things he did here; I know it left a bitter taste in my mouth, that's for sure, and he repeated the burn with the Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins (I can go into it if people want).

Sports reporters say he was saying he was going to quit in the building (Tampa) before the Super Bowl. After the win, the coaching staff got raided. Among others, Belichick got the head coaching job at Cleveland and Coughlin got the head coaching job at Boston College. All those other usual suspects like Romeo Crennel moved on too. Nobody was left.

But Bill didn't quit.

Neither did he start bringing in new coaches.

The team was in limbo.

Bill was still around during the draft. And during rookie mini camp.

And THEN he quit. In late May. When it's too late to bring in a new coaching staff.

Ray Handley may have sucked but he was the last guy in the room when they turned on the lights. And he manned up and took the job that was way, way over his head.

This is Bill Parcells' fault. He would go on to screw the Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins in similar fashion. That's the downside of Bill Parcells.
</P>


Giants Stadium couldn't fit the egos of Bill Parcells and George Young.</P>


George Young helped to create and deconstruct the Giants.</P>


Yeah, Parcells walked....but Belichick was cold-shouldered by George Young....he didn't think Belichick had the people skills to be a good head coach......so George pretty much let Belichick and Coughlin stroll.</P>


Ernie Accorsi helped to eventually undo all the damage that George Young created.....letting Belichick and Coughlin walk in favor of Ray Handley was right up there with letting Lombardi and Landry walk in favor of Allie Sherman.</P>

Spytheweb
01-25-2012, 06:02 AM
I remember when Carl Banks broke Danny Whites arm, it was great!

CruzMissle
01-25-2012, 06:26 AM
cool thread. I always love reading about the old giants from the older giant fans.

and i even like hearing about the really suck 60s/70s giants from my old man, because it puts in perspective what a real fan is -- sticking with your team through the worst of times.

giantyankee1976
01-25-2012, 07:49 AM
There were some great football during that decade. </p>


LT was the best player I have ever saw, he was by far the greatest defensive player that has ever played this game. </p>


Banks was a great player, he was the prototype strong side linebacker. </p>


Simms was a great Giant, he was tough, resilient, smart, a leader. </p>


That beating you saw Eli take against the 49ers last Sunday, Simms took that almost every game of his career. Those were the days you can kill a qb.</p>


To this day, I don't think any qb has played a better game then Simms did in super bowl XXI. He was perfect. 22 for 25 with 2 dropped passes. </p>


I don't like comparing players to todays game, different rules.</p>


</p>

and then there was this guy named BAVARO...

oh and we had this dude named Jim Burt, mean *** SOB D-Lineman

bigjeep
01-25-2012, 08:39 AM
One of the biggest myths ever and one that irritates me to no end is when so called football people say "LT was just a pass rusher". That big buffoon from Pittsburgh AM radio(Mark Madden) is the most annoying SOB on the planet. On the NFL Network show "The top 10 greates linebackers" he says itmore than once "LT was just a pass rusher" and contends Jack Ham and Jack Lambert were better than LT against the run....total bull crap.</P>


I got news for you LT was so great against the run that at first teams tried to run away from him which backfired because LT was so fast he would run everything down from the backside. Eventually the only chance a team had was to run at LT. New blocking schemes were designed as a result of LT.</P>


Because of LT and his incrediblepass rush off the line of scrimmage where he wold line up outside of the tacklefor the first time NFL teams started lining up the tackleusing very wide splitsoff the guard postion. For the first time in the NFL at times LT was tripled team, yes tripled team. You couldn't use a back to block LT as well.</P>


Now for the other Madden, the knowledgeable one as in John Madden. He says LT is the greatest defensive player ever. Coming from John Madden who coached awesome Raider defensive teams is saying a lot.</P>


</P>


Thats what made him great in the early years. As his life style and drugs caught up to him, his reputation became greater then his talent! Imaginehow muchbetter his lattercareer days could have been if he had stayed clean</P>

bigjeep
01-25-2012, 08:46 AM
If the young fans think Simms had it tough because of the rules in the 80's, TRY to imagine what QB's ( Y.A. Tittle )and receivers had to deal with in the early 60's and years back. Receivers could be hit all the way down the field until the ball was in the air. 1/2 the receivers today would pack their bags and find another job if that rule came back. QB's wore a target on their backs with no rules to "protect" them. They called it "football" back then! </P>


BTW -- most penalties like holding, ect, were 15 yards, not 10 and five.</P>


</P>

bigjeep
01-25-2012, 08:50 AM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB. Actually they weren't. I've been a Giants fan since the mid-70s and Simms, while not lighting anyone's hair on fire, was at his worst, no different then the other shlubs we had QBing before him (Morton, Parsarcik and Brunner). Going from Simms to Dave Brown ... now THAT was cringe-worthy.I'll take my own eyes and memory. The early Simms years consisted of two things. Injuries and inconsistentcy. Oh you're very right. It just wasn't all that different from the preceeding Giants QBs of the time.Never claimed it was. Funny part is in the end Parcells was the one with egg on his face. Well that and some on Simms. He didn't want to be a Giant. Not sure I get that reference.There was never any love lost between Parcells and Simms. And Simms would have prefered being drafted by San Fran and others before the Giants.</P>


Fans booed when the Giants drafted him fromasmallcollege!</P>

SIMMS5611
01-25-2012, 08:51 AM
You know what is simultaneously great AND depressing? Watching older clips today, that you remember seeing when they actually happened, but also, how now, when you see those clips, how dated the hairstyles, clothes, even the tv graphics were.</P>


I was in High School in the mid-80's, so I got to experience the whole re-birth of the franchise once Parcells came aboard (he actually live directly across the street from my grandparents when he first took over). </P>


Anyway, the past few weeks, I've been YouTubing older clips, like the Marshall hit on Montana, or the Jim Burt touchdown, the infamous "Hit" by Gary Reasons, just to name a few....</P>


Both happy, &amp; sad. I remember my dad talking about watching Mickey Mantle play baseball, &amp; how great he was. I could appreciate it to a certain extent, being a fan, but it never felt the same as actually seeing him. Now, during the playoffs this year, especially with the Ravens being in it, there was so much Ray Lewis Is Great talk...and I was telling friends that he's great, but no LT. Sadly, LT to them is like Mickey Mantle for me. Perhaps even worse, b/c kids today know LT more for being a former pro-football player who got in trouble w/the law....</P>


Getting old sucks.</P>

bigjeep
01-25-2012, 08:57 AM
In the Phil Simms days, it was the Defense, not the offense, that was great. In fact Hos. beat Simms out for the starting job after he helped win the 1990 SB. Back in the Early 60's, the joke was, the defensive players would tell the Offensive players coming onto the field to hold them tell we get back!

bigjeep
01-25-2012, 09:02 AM
Simms early years were very cringe-worthy in a shut your eyes he's coming out again way. Not unlike a certain other Giant QB.</P>


</P>


How true! [B]</P>

bigjeep
01-25-2012, 09:07 AM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play. The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific. So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to? Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway? I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now. Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day. Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.
*cough* Tommy Maddox *cough*</P>


He had potential! [:D]</P>

bigjeep
01-25-2012, 09:11 AM
You know what is simultaneously great AND depressing? Watching older clips today, that you remember seeing when they actually happened, but also, how now, when you see those clips, how dated the hairstyles, clothes, even the tv graphics were.</P>


I was in High School in the mid-80's, so I got to experience the whole re-birth of the franchise once Parcells came aboard (he actually live directly across the street from my grandparents when he first took over). </P>


Anyway, the past few weeks, I've been YouTubing older clips, like the Marshall hit on Montana, or the Jim Burt touchdown, the infamous "Hit" by Gary Reasons, just to name a few....</P>


Both happy, &amp; sad. I remember my dad talking about watching Mickey Mantle play baseball, &amp; how great he was. I could appreciate it to a certain extent, being a fan, but it never felt the same as actually seeing him. Now, during the playoffs this year, especially with the Ravens being in it, there was so much Ray Lewis Is Great talk...and I was telling friends that he's great, but no LT. Sadly, LT to them is like Mickey Mantle for me. Perhaps even worse, b/c kids today know LT more for being a former pro-football player who got in trouble w/the law....</P>


Getting old sucks.</P>


</P>


During LT's playing days, unlike today, his troubled personal life was kept out of the papers as much as they could to keep his Image clean! After his playing days were over, thats when the #### hit the fan as they say!</P>

Kruunch
01-25-2012, 09:25 AM
While you may be right that I could be a bit off from the early 90's I will tell you what I recall.

I heard or I think I heard that LT was not happy with Reeves and the way it all went down (could be wrong), so he decided to retire (Similar to tiki maybe, except he still loved the team and the guys).

From what I remember at the time LT was very concerned about knowing when the right time was to retire, and knowing when your heart is no longer in it.* The 49er loss was a beating (44-3) and he knew after that game it was time to go.* Could he have played another few years?* Probably.* But he was a shadow of his former self in 1991, 1992, and 1993, the injuries having taken a toll and his speed having lost a step.* Someone else just recently brought up retiring a year too early instead of a year too late, and I think that applied to LT.


But Reeves (again if I recall) told the Maras he wanted to cut Simms, and Mara being the anti-JJ hated it, but let him do it, as he was the coach. Yet he would of still stayed a Giant and played if it was not for Reeves move.

I recall all the rest. We were losing for many years because of what Reeves did. He tried to recreate denver here.

Then as now, the coach has input but it's the GM's decision.* Based on the risky shoulder surgery and Phil's big salary, George Young made the tough choice and cut Phil.* Phil was shocked because the surgery had gone well and he was rehabbing at the Giants facility in the offseason -- coming off a pro-bowl 1993 season.* Many would say Phil Simms is the first big casualty of the salary cap era.* George Young also lost his magic here as the Giants post XXV were decimated by losing players and coaches.* He just did not adapt to free agency well at all.

Phil came very close to signing on with Bill Belichick in Cleveland but in the end retired.

I do remember George Young and Wellington Mara being reported to have cried when they had to tell Phil he was cut.


Regarding Simms: Reeves didn't want him and wanted to recreate "his" team which is why he worked so hard to get rid of the '90 players. You're right that it was Young's decision, and the new salary cap was yet another issue, but as you eluded, GY didn't adjust to the cap well and Simms wouldn't have been a big cap hit at that point in his career in any event (which is why Simms was shocked that he was cut). Reeves is the one who exerted the pressure to lose him.

Regarding LT: Part of it was the Reeves thing (on Reeves end) but had LT wanted to play with the Giants until he was 90 years old, they would have let him. Part of the reason was by the early 90s he wasn't making the same amount of explosive plays but I don't think this is what really played deep into his decision to retire. Under Parcels, LT was treated like a god inside the locker room, He came and went as he wanted ... Parcels knew about the crack/coke binges after the games and turned a blind eye. He was always the special child from his rookie year, further endorsed by the toughest coach at the time (Parcels). Under Handley, he kind of had the same thing, as Handley didn't have the balls to stand up to LT and rock that boat, but Reeves held LT up to the same standards as everyone else. I think (totally my personal opinion) that LT resented being treated the same as the second stringers by his coach (first time that had happened to him since his freshman year in high school) and combined with age, fear of losing his legend, the salary cap and genuinely disliking his coach, he hung em up.

Reeves' only legacy (as far as I'm concerned) was dismantling the team that Parcels and a solid (pre-cap) George Young had built.

BParcells777
01-25-2012, 09:29 AM
Simms and Eli are pretty comparable

Both pocket passers with just enough mobility to move the pocket.......both strong arms

Phil had a problem with his screen as he could not take any pace off the ball.

Eli is more accurate on the longer passes.....

All in all I'd have to go with Eli but not by a wide margin. LT was great, but we've had some great players on D since.....none at LBer though

Its hard to compare Lbers to Lineman

The 1986 team would probably play todays team to a draw.....maybe not "The Suburbanites" were a very good cohesive O-line. Joe Morris was better than Bradshaw. Then again with that OLine Bradshaw might be more his equal.

Kruunch
01-25-2012, 09:36 AM
Simms.....took a lot of hits....earned his respect in NY the hard way.....never really had many guys to throw to .......handed the ball off A LOT.......tough as nails just not as durable as Eli......threw with plenty zip, a really nice ball ........firey guy, would get in guys faces, Ronnie Lott for one.......stood tall in the pocket to the very last second much like Eli did Sunday when he got that deep ball to Bradshaw and took a big hit ..........Simms and Mark Bavaro had something very special and always seemed to make magical connections



LT.....a man that big shouldnt be able to move that fast......he was a hunter......would abandon game plans to rush the passer on his own.......Joe Gibbs had to re revolutionize blocking schemes in pro football to try to figure out how to slow him down because he couldnt be stopped......would also catch teams off guard by occasionally dropping into coverage when they thought for sure he was coming......there are a lot of guys on those teams that deserve a lot of credit for doing their jobs so LT could be LT



Elway..........GUN........guts........scary ......

This reminded me of the the movie The Blind Side, which starts off extolling how LT was responsible for revolutionizing the Left Tackle position which is patently untrue.

However what LT did leave behind, was to force teams to double and triple him. Every time you see a running back kept in to block today, or a tighend that chips on his way out to run a pattern ... THOSE were originally created because of LT specifically. That was his legacy.

God hasn't made a left tackle yet that could handle LT one-on-one.

bigjeep
01-25-2012, 09:38 AM
Simms and Eli are pretty comparable

Both pocket passers with just enough mobility to move the pocket.......both strong arms

Phil had a problem with his screen as he could not take any pace off the ball.

Eli is more accurate on the longer passes.....

All in all I'd have to go with Eli but not by a wide margin.*** LT was great, but we've had some great players on D since.....none at LBer though

Its hard to compare Lbers to Lineman

The 1986 team would probably play todays team to a draw.....maybe not "The Suburbanites" were a very good cohesive O-line.* Joe Morris was better than Bradshaw.* Then again with that OLine Bradshaw might be more his equal.


Have to disagree! Simms could never carry the team like Eli has and Simms was never noted for his 4th quarter comebacks as eli has done. I admit I was never a big Eli fan, but as of now, he will go down as the greatest Giants QB of all time and maybe a Hall of Famer!

bigblue58
01-25-2012, 09:48 AM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play.

The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific.

So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to?

Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway?

I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now.

Thanks!

It was a Giants era where they would put up 14 or 17 points and ask the Defense to hold the lead.....and they did! But make no mistake, giving fans heart attacks is in the Giants DNA, and it's the one constant this team has carried with it decade after decade.
Back then, instead of asking how a guy BJ's size could be tackled so easily, we'd be asking "how the hell can this opponent be moving the ball down the field so easily with OUR D?"
It was a great time to be a Giants fan, but it wasn't romantic and stress free by any stretch, Bavaro was always hurt, LT had his little soap opera going....so there was good and bad with that team too.
I would give anything to return to just one of those Sundays back then....OLD GIANTS STADIUM, Parcells on the sideline, Bellichick our DC, GIANTS written across the helmets, Bavaro , Simms, Banks, LT and Carson on the field, Renya Thompson always the first guy to the return man on special teams, Daluiso defying the OLD Giants stadium winds on kick offs and FG's..........memories so thick I can almost touch them

Kruunch
01-25-2012, 09:57 AM
Well put about Dan Reeves, DragonSoul -- he tried to recreate the Broncos. But I give him props for taking us back to the playoffs after the the disasterous Handley years.

And poor Handley didn't even want the job. After SB 25, Belichick had just taken the Browns job and Tuna retired soon afterwards. I could be wrong, but I think Al Groh and Coughlin had even moved on by that point. Basically, our coaching staff was already decimated by other job offers, and Handley took it because he was the last coach standing. He didn't even want the responsibility.

It's worse than that.* Bill Parcells actively screwed the Giants.* It taints all the good things he did here; I know it left a bitter taste in my mouth, that's for sure, and he repeated the burn with the Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins (I can go into it if people want).

Sports reporters say he was saying he was going to quit in the building (Tampa) before the Super Bowl.* After the win, the coaching staff got raided.* Among others, Belichick got the head coaching job at Cleveland and Coughlin got the head coaching job at Boston College.* All those other usual suspects like Romeo Crennel moved on too.* Nobody was left.

But Bill didn't quit.

Neither did he start bringing in new coaches.

The team was in limbo.

Bill was still around during the draft.* And during rookie mini camp.* For a football team the season really starts in draft preparation, so to the Maras Bill was staying.

And THEN he quit.* In late May.* When it's too late to bring in a new coaching staff.

Ray Handley may have sucked but he was the last guy in the room when they turned on the lights.* And he manned up and took the job that was way, way over his head.

This is Bill Parcells' fault.* He would go on to screw the Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins in similar fashion.* That's the downside of Bill Parcells.


Yes and no.

Historically you are correct, but what you forgot to mention is WHY he stuck around for the 1991 draft and then subsequently quit.

After winning his second Super Bowl (with a back up QB no less, who happened to be his son-in-law btw) in 5 years and making the Giants a force in the NFL for the first time in the Super Bowl era, he wanted to run the draft. He actually wanted to be named as coach AND GM, but he understood that the Maras wouldn't fire George Young so he wanted to run the draft totally, which he was told he could. However George Young wouldn't give up those reins when he disagreed with some of Parcels' picks and ultimately took over the draft again.

Parcels quit in the aftermath of that.

Now Parcels certainly has an ego, but it's a deserved ego and given his continued history of being one of the best evaluators of talent in the NFL, and where George Young took the team in the 90s, I would say from a business perspective, the Giants made the wrong move here.

Don't forget, every team that Parcels went to (barring the Cowboys) was the bottom of the barrel of the NFL at the time (Giants, Pats and Jets all had 1 or 2 win seasons prior to him taking them over) and he built/rebuilt them to dominance.

However the caveat here was that Parcels was always a flakey individual with respect to his motivation and drive (as his career history has also shown).

Kruunch
01-25-2012, 10:02 AM
I'm a relatively young fan who never got a chance to see Phil Simms, LT, Banks, etc... play. I was always very curious how they were perceived during their time, and what you all thought about their play. The 80s sounded like the Golden Age of sports, especially for football, when the rules made it difficult for QBs to be prolific. So, can you guys tell me about Simms? What type of QB was he? Anybody today you can compare him to? Also, what about Elway? How was it like when Simms when up against Elway? I just need to know! I need perspective here as a young fan. All I keep hearing is how great these guys were, but all I know are the guys I see now. Thanks!I just got into football in the late 80s/early 90s. Even as a young fan (hitting around the teens lol) I appreciated Rodney, Simms (when he was being critized), LT and the LBS for sure. I wish I got into football earlier, so i got right at the end of the hey day. Then Dan Reeves came in and pretty much forced Simms and LT off the team. More so Simms I think, because he wanted Hostetler if I recall. And after all that we got Danny Kannel, Dave brown and Kent grahmn. Man was I happy when we got Kerry Collins, and then in 02 I believe I joined the forums. And at that time I was a big fan of Toomer, Tiki, Ike, Hamilitan.

Actually it was Reeves who ended the mess at QB by getting rid of Hostetler.
*cough* Tommy Maddox *cough*</P>


He had potential!** [:D]</P>

He had great potential ... to hold a clipboard.

yatitle
01-25-2012, 10:22 AM
Well put about Dan Reeves, DragonSoul -- he tried to recreate the Broncos. But I give him props for taking us back to the playoffs after the the disasterous Handley years.

And poor Handley didn't even want the job. After SB 25, Belichick had just taken the Browns job and Tuna retired soon afterwards. I could be wrong, but I think Al Groh and Coughlin had even moved on by that point. Basically, our coaching staff was already decimated by other job offers, and Handley took it because he was the last coach standing. He didn't even want the responsibility.

It's worse than that. Bill Parcells actively screwed the Giants. It taints all the good things he did here; I know it left a bitter taste in my mouth, that's for sure, and he repeated the burn with the Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins (I can go into it if people want).

Sports reporters say he was saying he was going to quit in the building (Tampa) before the Super Bowl. After the win, the coaching staff got raided. Among others, Belichick got the head coaching job at Cleveland and Coughlin got the head coaching job at Boston College. All those other usual suspects like Romeo Crennel moved on too. Nobody was left.

But Bill didn't quit.

Neither did he start bringing in new coaches.

The team was in limbo.

Bill was still around during the draft. And during rookie mini camp. For a football team the season really starts in draft preparation, so to the Maras Bill was staying.

And THEN he quit. In late May. When it's too late to bring in a new coaching staff.

Ray Handley may have sucked but he was the last guy in the room when they turned on the lights. And he manned up and took the job that was way, way over his head.

This is Bill Parcells' fault. He would go on to screw the Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins in similar fashion. That's the downside of Bill Parcells.


Yes and no.

Historically you are correct, but what you forgot to mention is WHY he stuck around for the 1991 draft and then subsequently quit.

After winning his second Super Bowl (with a back up QB no less, who happened to be his son-in-law btw) in 5 years and making the Giants a force in the NFL for the first time in the Super Bowl era, he wanted to run the draft. He actually wanted to be named as coach AND GM, but he understood that the Maras wouldn't fire George Young so he wanted to run the draft totally, which he was told he could. However George Young wouldn't give up those reins when he disagreed with some of Parcels' picks and ultimately took over the draft again.

Parcels quit in the aftermath of that.

Now Parcels certainly has an ego, but it's a deserved ego and given his continued history of being one of the best evaluators of talent in the NFL, and where George Young took the team in the 90s, I would say from a business perspective, the Giants made the wrong move here.

Don't forget, every team that Parcels went to (barring the Cowboys) was the bottom of the barrel of the NFL at the time (Giants, Pats and Jets all had 1 or 2 win seasons prior to him taking them over) and he built/rebuilt them to dominance.

However the caveat here was that Parcels was always a flakey individual with respect to his motivation and drive (as his career history has also shown).

You are mistaken on a few facts. Jeff Hosteltler was not Parcells' son-in-law but rather the son-in-law of Don Nehlen who was his college coach at West Virginia. Parcells son-in-law is Scott Pioli who worked in New England for years and now runs the Chiefs. Parcells ego wouldn't allow him to give credit to George Young who built the team from nothing to SB champs and should be in the HOF. Parcells also never forgave Young who wanted him fired after his first year after he picked Brunner over Simms and went 3-12-1. But Mara intervened and the Parcells survived. Don't forget Parcells NEVER won another SB after leaving the Giants because he didn't have LT and NEVER stayed around to finish the job. Also don't forget Parcells' NEVER won a playoff game in which Belichick wasn't his DC.

Bohemian
01-25-2012, 05:18 PM
Dave Brown....Kent Graham....Danny Kanell...</p>


Dark days indeed.

Don't forget Ray Handley.

My goodness those were two years of my life I'll never get back.

agreed about Handley but I also hated the Reeves years too..other then 93 those years sucked imo.</p>


</p>

Wow... the nightmares they provided were too much for me. I actually stopped watching for a couple of years. As much as I would try and catch a game now and then, Handley was the worst of them all. I did not mind Reeves too much, because he did not have a bad track record with Denver, but it was always clear that he was not good enough. Those truly were the dark ages for the New York Giants for me.</p>

Dave Brown, Kent Graham and Danny Kanell were absolute embarrassment. They never showed an once of potential.</p>

And when one looks back at the win-loss record; Fassel was not much better, but he did put together some good rosters... but besides that, it was just as bad as the rest of them.
Fassel was so difficult to figure out, mainly because you knew that his offenses seem to be promising, but really never delivered, while his ability to manage the team was non existent. Talk about a culture shift between Fassel's "do as you please" to Coughlin's "do as I say" approach.</p>

I am just glad that those days are far behind us, and that some of us did not have experience them.</p>

Go Blue!
</p>

kodijake
01-25-2012, 06:31 PM
I know everyone hates on Fassel, but he did get us to the playoffs w/Danny Kannel in '97, following the abysmal 95 and 96 seasons and he's the only Giants HC outside of Parcellswhose team hosted an NFC Championship game. All three of his playoff runs ended embarssingly and his non playoff years were terrible, but I think he wasn't that bad overall. I was thrilled to get him out of here and bring in Coughlin, but in terms of the modern NFL he was relatively successful.</P>


</P>

DragonSoul
01-25-2012, 06:37 PM
I know everyone hates on Fassel,* but he did get us to the playoffs w/Danny Kannel in '97, following the abysmal 95 and 96 seasons and he's the only Giants HC outside of Parcells*whose team hosted an NFC Championship game.* All three of his playoff runs ended embarssingly and his non playoff years were terrible, but I think he wasn't that bad overall.* I was thrilled to get him out of here and bring in Coughlin, but in terms of the modern NFL he was relatively successful.</P>


*</P>I liked fassel. Problem was he did lose the team, and at that time i felt he needed to move on & that TC was the perfect fit.

Not sure what happened @ the end of Fassels tenure, but I am still surprised he hasn't gotten another chance to be a HC

buffyblue
01-25-2012, 06:47 PM
I could not agree with you more in regard to Bill Parcells. He screwed over NY Giants and didnít think twice about it. The guy is a selfhish fat schmuck and I hope he never has anything to dow ith NY Giants organization ever again.

buffyblue
01-25-2012, 06:49 PM
I agree. Phil Simms was really good but folks tend to remember him with some rose colored glasses.

I bELIeve.

giantyankee1976
01-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Reeves' only legacy (as far as I'm concerned) was dismantling the team
that Parcels and a solid (pre-cap) George Young had built.



holy crap !



THIS



I hated the New York Broncos/ Denver Giants.



I couldn't stand Dan Reeves, him and Handley were pure doo-doo








I know everyone hates on Fassel, but he did get us to the playoffs w/Danny Kannel in '97, following the abysmal 95 and 96 seasons and he's the only Giants HC outside of Parcellswhose team hosted an NFC Championship game. All three of his playoff runs ended embarssingly and his non playoff years were terrible, but I think he wasn't that bad overall. I was thrilled to get him out of here and bring in Coughlin, but in terms of the modern NFL he was relatively successful.</p>


</p>

my knock on Fassel was the "pushing all my chips..." ***-whipping by the Ravens who were CLEARLY dialed-in and focused on winning a Championship unlike our "Hollywood Celeb football players"

G.I. Ants
01-25-2012, 08:56 PM
I didn't care for Reeves much and I couldn't stand Fassel. Yes, Fassel coached us to a SB, but he still wasn't a great coach, hell, he never got an offer after his time in NY/NJ. I was pissed, and I mean pissed, when Payton was fired as scapegoat for the team stuggling offensively that year. I just loved the way Parcells scooped him up immediately afterwards. I wanted Payton to coach this team so badly because he was the first coach breath new life into to giants offense in a long long time.