PDA

View Full Version : KGs Failure was glaring in the loss to NO & here is why.



DragonSoul
12-03-2011, 08:41 PM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2011, 08:47 PM
The short routes were successful because the Saints had a huge lead and were willing to give them up

But I agree that we have to at least try that type of route since our running game is awful . . . .

JG56
12-03-2011, 09:04 PM
Maybe we get Norv Turner as OC next year

buddy33
12-03-2011, 09:11 PM
All I know is that they haven't scored a TD in the 1st half of the last 4 games.

Is it KG, the OL, both, or something else. I don't know but it's horrible.

egyptian420
12-03-2011, 09:13 PM
All I know is that they haven't scored a TD in the 1st half of the last 4 games.

Is it KG, the OL, both, or something else. I don't know but it's horrible.
Such a sad stat

miked1958
12-03-2011, 09:23 PM
The short routes were successful because the Saints had a huge lead and were willing to give them up

But I agree that we have to at least try that type of route since our running game is awful . . . .
Did go deep a few times but either overthrew, under threw or the ball was dropped

tonyt830
12-03-2011, 09:26 PM
The short routes were successful because the Saints had a huge lead and were willing to give them up But I agree that we have to at least try that type of route since our running game is awful . . . .along with the short passing game and Bradshaw back in the lineup, we can control time of possession and keep Rodgers and the Packers high octane offense off the field. They cant be effective standing on the sideline. Here's to hoping!

T-Murda84
12-03-2011, 09:35 PM
HOW CAN PEOPLE BLAME KEVIN GILBRIDE!!! DID U WATCH THE DROP PASSES AND THE INACCURATE THROWS....AM I WATCHING A DIFFERENT GAME!?!? Turnovers, dropped passes, wrong routes and inaccurate passes have plagued the Giants can we put all that on a offensive coordinator? Give me a break...I guess Gilbride is holding back our juggernaunt offense lol. I dont mind the short passing game since our GM chose to neglect the Offensive Line since coming here in 07. How long did he expect O'hara, Snee, Seubert, Mckenzie, and Diehl to hold up? And when u look at that group we still never had a true Left Tackle but I guess that play calling is the reason for our offensive line not blocking as well. If u fire Gilbride, nothing will change...just like nothing changed when Sheridan was fired. People was loving Fewell when he came here and seen what he did for Buffalo...but alll of a sudden his scheme sucks? Also it looks like Buffalo's defense is struggling without Fewell, I bet they would love to have him back, while we continue to search for a coordinator to work miracles with a defense that has given up.

DragonSoul
12-03-2011, 10:35 PM
HOW CAN PEOPLE BLAME KEVIN GILBRIDE!!! DID U WATCH THE DROP PASSES AND THE INACCURATE THROWS....AM I WATCHING A DIFFERENT GAME!?!? Turnovers, dropped passes, wrong routes and inaccurate passes have plagued the Giants can we put all that on a offensive coordinator? Give me a break...I guess Gilbride is holding back our juggernaunt offense lol. I dont mind the short passing game since our GM chose to neglect the Offensive Line since coming here in 07. How long did he expect O'hara, Snee, Seubert, Mckenzie, and Diehl to hold up? And when u look at that group we still never had a true Left Tackle but I guess that play calling is the reason for our offensive line not blocking as well. If u fire Gilbride, nothing will change...just like nothing changed when Sheridan was fired. People was loving Fewell when he came here and seen what he did for Buffalo...but alll of a sudden his scheme sucks? Also it looks like Buffalo's defense is struggling without Fewell, I bet they would love to have him back, while we continue to search for a coordinator to work miracles with a defense that has given up.you completely missed the point. That game was not on him, but it showed you were he goes wrong in the play calls. Ala no short intermediate routes unless they are wr screens. Instead he prefers to go deep on most routes and it puts more pressure on everyone on O.

GameTime
12-03-2011, 10:50 PM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths. So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front. Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back. I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes. If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline</P>


kind of like a West Coast offense right?.......</P>

DragonSoul
12-03-2011, 11:16 PM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths. So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front. Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back. I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes. If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline</P>


kind of like a *West Coast offense right?.......</P>Doesn't have to be a west coast offense, but more balanced. It can have 1 or 2 set of downs for a mid/shor passing attack, another deep, another with 1 deep another short.

Just mix it up. We have the WRS who can do it all. They can catch a quick pass and make guys miss like mario/cruz and even Nicks. Or they can burn the coverage and beat there guys deep. That is when they can actually catch (hold unto) the ball.

It is funny, most of the short passes he does are the ones I hate (wr screens) either because the play isn't drawn up right or the guys do not execute it right. Finally they started to incorporate more hb screen/drop off passes compared to years past.

DragonSoul
12-03-2011, 11:24 PM
The short routes were successful because the Saints had a huge lead and were willing to give them up

But I agree that we have to at least try that type of route since our running game is awful . . . .While that is true to a large extent in that game(it at least showed you how well it all went together with the timing and so forth).

The offense does well in those type of pass plays when they are called. How many TDS has Cruz or the other Wrs had on short routes? Or how about that 5-7 yard quick hitch/curl routes when used to Nicks, mannigham or AB who are then able to make a move and turn up field for an additional 5-10 yards or break it long for a TD if the defense isn't on top of them or make a great tackle?

How many times do we see the offense of another team use a crossing, slant route inside the 10 for a good amount of yards? But mainly to get inside the CB or coverages and get a TD?

When I see our Corners 1 on 1 inside the 10, I am always worried its going to be a slant or crossing route, and generally it is. While Web has played better vs it this year this is the one time in our defense I would like to have either a Safety or LB slide over to cover that area. Fewell seems to do the opposite. Covers with lbs safeties outside the 20 but inside leaves them one on one.

DragonSoul
12-05-2011, 10:21 PM
Anyone else notice all those bombs (away) again? Would love some more slants, crossing routes.

Drez
12-06-2011, 12:40 AM
Anyone else notice all those bombs (away) again? Would love some more slants, crossing routes.</P>


Yes, I did. I also noticed that we were VERY successful on them.</P>

giantsfan420
12-06-2011, 12:54 AM
The short routes were successful because the Saints had a huge lead and were willing to give them up

But I agree that we have to at least try that type of route since our running game is awful . . . .While that is true to a large extent in that game(it at least showed you how well it all went together with the timing and so forth).

The offense does well in those type of pass plays when they are called. How many TDS has Cruz or the other Wrs had on short routes? Or how about that 5-7 yard quick hitch/curl routes when used to Nicks, mannigham or AB who are then able to make a move and turn up field for an additional 5-10 yards or break it long for a TD if the defense isn't on top of them or make a great tackle?

How many times do we see the offense of another team use a crossing, slant route inside the 10 for a good amount of yards? But mainly to get inside the CB or coverages and get a TD?

When I see our Corners 1 on 1 inside the 10, I am always worried its going to be a slant or crossing route, and generally it is. While Web has played better vs it this year this is the one time in our defense I would like to have either a Safety or LB slide over to cover that area. Fewell seems to do the opposite. Covers with lbs safeties outside the 20 but inside leaves them one on one.

there was a bunch of shorter route passes called and executed. nicks had like 3 quick catches at the LOS, Cruz caught some slants and ins and so did Barden. I thought it was mixed up pretty well, but we were so successful on the long ball so why get away from it when it was working as well as it did.

also, eli has amazing accuracy on the deep passes. almost ever deep pass was right on the numbers hitting the receiver in stride

DragonSoul
12-06-2011, 01:05 AM
Anyone else notice all those bombs (away) again? Would love some more slants, crossing routes.</P>


Yes, I did. I also noticed that we were VERY successful on them.</P>It did, no doubt, and it was a good game plan, but how about vs better defenses?

When we were shut out in the last 4 games in the first half without a TD?

Drez
12-06-2011, 01:42 AM
Anyone else notice all those bombs (away) again? Would love some more slants, crossing routes.</P>


Yes, I did. I also noticed that we were VERY successful on them.</P>


It did, no doubt, and it was a good game plan, but how about vs better defenses? When we were shut out in the last 4 games in the first half without a TD?</P>


What does that have to do with Sunday's game?</P>

DragonSoul
12-06-2011, 01:53 AM
Anyone else notice all those bombs (away) again? Would love some more slants, crossing routes.</P>


Yes, I did. I also noticed that we were VERY successful on them.</P>


It did, no doubt, and it was a good game plan, but how about vs better defenses? When we were shut out in the last 4 games in the first half without a TD?</P>


What does that have to do with Sunday's game?</P>If you read my thread, I was talking in general initially, and continued into this thread, saying that if anyone noticed that is primarily his called plays. The ones that are going deep. I do agree this week there was a bit more short passes, but in general there are a lot more Deep passes going out.

Puts a lot more pressure on the Oline that has been suspect all year (putting it nicely), a rookie FB when he is in, and the WR/QB.

bansaw
12-06-2011, 03:00 AM
so every WR has been running a deep route those plays? the deep throw is Eli's only option?

also its bad to take what the defense is giving you?

DragonSoul
12-06-2011, 10:23 AM
so every WR has been running a deep route those plays? the deep throw is Eli's only option?

also its bad to take what the defense is giving you?

Nope not at all, but certain routes open up others.

burier
12-06-2011, 10:41 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 10:56 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.

great post and I agree with every sentiment ....

but the fade routes you speak of.....just like the deep balls the OP speaks of are simply options in the route trees run......a very high percentage of the time there are underneath routes being run.

Eli took the fade because Nicks was singled up......and he takes the deep option most of the time for the very same reason

Im not saying you burier....but there are a lot of people on these boards who kill KG for decisions that are up to Eli

DragonSoul
12-06-2011, 10:57 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.It was just very evident in that game, so I brought up the subject. Been bothering me for awhile, and felt it was a good example.

DragonSoul
12-06-2011, 11:00 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.

great post and I agree with every sentiment ....

but the fade routes you speak of.....just like the deep balls the OP speaks of are simply options in the route trees run......a very high percentage of the time there are underneath routes being run.

Eli took the fade because Nicks was singled up......and he takes the deep option most of the time for the very same reason

Im not saying you burier....but there are a lot of people on these boards who kill KG for decisions that are up to Eli1 on 1 coverage on either of our wrs (nicks, cruz and even manning ham) I would tell Eli to pull the trigger 100% of the time as long as he see the coverage before he throws it, unlike with the mathews int lol.

YATittle1962
12-06-2011, 11:05 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.

great post and I agree with every sentiment ....

but the fade routes you speak of.....just like the deep balls the OP speaks of are simply options in the route trees run......a very high percentage of the time there are underneath routes being run.

Eli took the fade because Nicks was singled up......and he takes the deep option most of the time for the very same reason

Im not saying you burier....but there are a lot of people on these boards who kill KG for decisions that are up to Eli1 on 1 coverage on either of our wrs (nicks, cruz and even manning ham) I would tell Eli to pull the trigger 100% of the time as long as he see the coverage before he throws it, unlike with the mathews int lol.

that was simply a great break on the ball by Matthews.

if you look at that play it looks like there is no way Clay has enough time get there ....and pressure made that decision

Bradshaw was open......but the rush caused that ball to be thrown slightly behind allowing Matthews to make a fantastic play on the ball

extremely unfortunate play and quite possibly the difference in the game

DragonSoul
12-06-2011, 11:07 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.

great post and I agree with every sentiment ....

but the fade routes you speak of.....just like the deep balls the OP speaks of are simply options in the route trees run......a very high percentage of the time there are underneath routes being run.

Eli took the fade because Nicks was singled up......and he takes the deep option most of the time for the very same reason

Im not saying you burier....but there are a lot of people on these boards who kill KG for decisions that are up to Eli1 on 1 coverage on either of our wrs (nicks, cruz and even manning ham) I would tell Eli to pull the trigger 100% of the time as long as he see the coverage before he throws it, unlike with the mathews int lol.

that was simply a great break on the ball by Matthews.

if you look at that play it looks like there is no way Clay has enough time get there ....and pressure made that decision

Bradshaw was open......but the rush caused that ball to be thrown slightly behind allowing Matthews to make a fantastic play on the ball

extremely unfortunate play and quite possibly the difference in the gameTrue, also Eli said yesterday he did not see Clay at all, that he was blocked out of his view, and saw AB wide open, and with the pressure coming he threw it.

Knowing that he did not see him is a big difference vs, when I thought he threw it even though he saw him. So it happens, great play by Clay, bad break for us. Happens.

burier
12-06-2011, 11:13 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.

great post and I agree with every sentiment ....

but the fade routes you speak of.....just like the deep balls the OP speaks of are simply options in the route trees run......a very high percentage of the time there are underneath routes being run.

Eli took the fade because Nicks was singled up......and he takes the deep option most of the time for the very same reason

Im not saying you burier....but there are a lot of people on these boards who kill KG for decisions that are up to Eli

I think alot of the blame Gilbride gets has alot to do with the fact that some of us are not 100% clear on how much control Eli actually has. I know I definately have some information but not enough to say for sure who was responsible for what.

I do know that once the ball is snapped you really can't blame KG if Eli decides to go to a certain reciever over another receiver. Like you said Eli decided to throw the fade he had other options.

My main beef with Gilbride is that we don't seem to have enough plays designed to get medium yards and that the play calling is predictable (He has called a couple decent games this year and in the past) though I'm not sure how many times Eli is checking to what I'd call a predictable play. I have seen plays run and thought Eli should have just checked out of that nonsense.

bleedinblue27
12-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Maybe we get Norv Turner as OC next year
thats not a bad idea!!
Cowher - HC
Turner - OC
??? - DC

burier
12-06-2011, 11:17 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.

great post and I agree with every sentiment ....

but the fade routes you speak of.....just like the deep balls the OP speaks of are simply options in the route trees run......a very high percentage of the time there are underneath routes being run.

Eli took the fade because Nicks was singled up......and he takes the deep option most of the time for the very same reason

Im not saying you burier....but there are a lot of people on these boards who kill KG for decisions that are up to Eli1 on 1 coverage on either of our wrs (nicks, cruz and even manning ham) I would tell Eli to pull the trigger 100% of the time as long as he see the coverage before he throws it, unlike with the mathews int lol.

that was simply a great break on the ball by Matthews.

if you look at that play it looks like there is no way Clay has enough time get there ....and pressure made that decision

Bradshaw was open......but the rush caused that ball to be thrown slightly behind allowing Matthews to make a fantastic play on the ball

extremely unfortunate play and quite possibly the difference in the gameTrue, also Eli said yesterday he did not see Clay at all, that he was blocked out of his view, and saw AB wide open, and with the pressure coming he threw it.

Knowing that he did not see him is a big difference vs, when I thought he threw it even though he saw him. So it happens, great play by Clay, bad break for us. Happens.

You can tell that Eli just didn't see him by how little velocity he put on the ball. He kind of just tossed it out there so Bradshaw could make an easy catch and it went the other way.

**** happens.

We were able to get those 7 points back off the board fairly quickly so I'm not gonna say that that was the turning point in the game. I think it just worked out where we didnt get a lot breaks from the refs and the team with the ball last won.

burier
12-06-2011, 11:17 AM
While KG does call some great games, more then not, he is ho hum in his play calling. He is similar to Fewell were imho they try to make the players fir their schemes vs making the schemes fit the players strengths.

So how was it obvious? (yes i Know Fewell was the main problem) Eli went for 21 consecutive passes that were caught? Why did that happen? Because they used the 3-10 yard routes and let the WRs make plays since they knew NO would keep it all in front.

Most teams have trouble defending those routes and in the same instance it helps the QB and receivers get on the same page and flow. It also makes the defenders have to cover the WHOLE field not just 15 yards back.

I do like taking our shots downfield, but KG really needs to create more plays that can work for our guys speed, agility and elusiveness in quick slants, hooks, crossing routes.

If KG would incorporate more of that, I feel everyone on O would benefit from it, including (Especially) our Oline

This has always been true...though I'm a bit confused by the connection you make to the NO game..

Anyway I've said this before. These QBs that everyone wants to cream their pants over hit on alot of high percentage west coast type plays and we don't run nearly enough of those types of plays.

This was actually shown in the Eagles game where Eli is under constant pressure yet the passing game never went away from the vertical philosophy...forcing Eli to hold the ball and get hit and take sacks.

in NO as you stated the offense included much more of the shorter higher percentage passing.

Its frustrating because the so called "Elite" QBs in the league have what I'd call money plays that they go to when they need medium yards. between 5-8 yards that are high percentage.

When we playled NO they had a 3rd down near the goal line and I Knew theyd score because they have play for that sitiuation which will work because its short passing high percentage that doesn't require a great route or great throw.

Even against the Packers we're running fades in the redzone. They worked and I don't have a problem with fade routes but they have a much higher degree of difficulty compared to a simple out.

My only hope is that Gilbride continues to include the west coast type passing in the offense.

great post and I agree with every sentiment ....

but the fade routes you speak of.....just like the deep balls the OP speaks of are simply options in the route trees run......a very high percentage of the time there are underneath routes being run.

Eli took the fade because Nicks was singled up......and he takes the deep option most of the time for the very same reason

Im not saying you burier....but there are a lot of people on these boards who kill KG for decisions that are up to Eli1 on 1 coverage on either of our wrs (nicks, cruz and even manning ham) I would tell Eli to pull the trigger 100% of the time as long as he see the coverage before he throws it, unlike with the mathews int lol.

that was simply a great break on the ball by Matthews.

if you look at that play it looks like there is no way Clay has enough time get there ....and pressure made that decision

Bradshaw was open......but the rush caused that ball to be thrown slightly behind allowing Matthews to make a fantastic play on the ball

extremely unfortunate play and quite possibly the difference in the gameTrue, also Eli said yesterday he did not see Clay at all, that he was blocked out of his view, and saw AB wide open, and with the pressure coming he threw it.

Knowing that he did not see him is a big difference vs, when I thought he threw it even though he saw him. So it happens, great play by Clay, bad break for us. Happens.

You can tell that Eli just didn't see him by how little velocity he put on the ball. He kind of just tossed it out there so Bradshaw could make an easy catch and it went the other way.

**** happens.

We were able to get those 7 points back off the board fairly quickly so I'm not gonna say that that was the turning point in the game. I think it just worked out where we didnt get a lot breaks from the refs and the team with the ball last won.