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View Full Version : I blame the 2nd half of the season collapse on........



RagingBlue
12-04-2011, 06:26 AM
INJURIES. Especially after losing Boley. When we lost him in the 2nd half of the game against the 49ers. I had a strong feeling we were going to lose the game and it was going to cost us some games. I don't know why but Jim Fassel's teams were heavily injury prone too. I think we might be jinxed or something. Expect for 2007 when everybody was injuried in the early part of the season and healed up just in time for playoffs. I think T.C. should get a two or three year extension. If we suck next year then fire him and eat up his contract. The NY Giants profited 80 million last year. They can eat up his contract.

buddy33
12-04-2011, 07:20 AM
Injuries and the OL being just so bad are the reason for the collapse. Also, it seems that every year they have a cupcake schedule to start the season and look like champions until they play real teams. I do like TC but unfortunately his record against winning teams is very bad.

SweetZombieJesus
12-04-2011, 08:42 AM
So for 7 out of 8 years, where we've collapsed at the same time of the year, it's always injuries?

You know Coughlin blasted Fassel for injuries, right? Called it a "cancer".

The only year this team did better than .500 down the stretch is 2005. Nov/Dec record of 28-40.

EVERY. YEAR. A collapse.

2004 - lost 9 of last 11
2006 - lost 6 of last 8
2007 - lost 4 of last 8
2008 - lost 3 of last 4
2009 - lost 8 of last 11
2010 - lost 2 of last 3 (with playoffs on the line in each loss)
2011 - lost 3 of last 3

<font color="#FF0000">But no, no, no; it's just injuries and it's just this year...</font> <font color="#FF0000">And the Giants are the only team to suffer injuries and injuries are not a part of pro football.</font>

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 08:45 AM
Injuries and the OL being just so bad are the reason for the collapse. Also, it seems that every year they have a cupcake schedule to start the season and look like champions until they play real teams. I do like TC but unfortunately his record against winning teams is very bad.

Do you know the records of other good coaches against winning teans (i.e., Belicheck, Cowher, Gruden, etc.)? Just curious.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 08:46 AM
So for 7 out of 8 years, where we've collapsed at the same time of the year, it's always injuries?

You know Coughlin blasted Fassel for injuries, right?* Called it a "cancer".

The only year this team did better than .500 down the stretch is 2005.* Nov/Dec record of 28-40.

EVERY.* YEAR.* A collapse.

2004 - lost 9 of last 11
2006 - lost 6 of last 8
2007 - lost 4 of last 8
2008 - lost 3 of last 4
2009 - lost 8 of last 11
2010 - lost 2 of last 3 (with playoffs on the line in each loss)
2011 - lost 3 of last 3

<font color="#FF0000">But no, no, no; it's just injuries and it's just this year...</font>* <font color="#FF0000">And the Giants are the only team to suffer injuries and injuries are not a part of pro football.</font>


From the guy who is on record as saying that we should have fired TC after the 2008 season . . . .you have no credibility at all dude.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 08:46 AM
So for 7 out of 8 years, where we've collapsed at the same time of the year, it's always injuries?

You know Coughlin blasted Fassel for injuries, right?* Called it a "cancer".

The only year this team did better than .500 down the stretch is 2005.* Nov/Dec record of 28-40.

EVERY.* YEAR.* A collapse.

2004 - lost 9 of last 11
2006 - lost 6 of last 8
2007 - lost 4 of last 8
2008 - lost 3 of last 4
2009 - lost 8 of last 11
2010 - lost 2 of last 3 (with playoffs on the line in each loss)
2011 - lost 3 of last 3

<font color="#FF0000">But no, no, no; it's just injuries and it's just this year...</font>* <font color="#FF0000">And the Giants are the only team to suffer injuries and injuries are not a part of pro football.</font>


From the guy who is on record as saying that we should have fired TC after the 2008 season . . . .you have no credibility at all dude.

SweetZombieJesus
12-04-2011, 08:52 AM
From the guy who is on record as saying that we should have fired TC after the 2008 season . . . .you have no credibility at all dude.

LOL keep apologizing for failure even when you can't see the very point of failure.

Keep doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result, great strategy.

CLEARLY the fall from grace was blowing the #1 seed at home to the hated Eagles in a humiliating 23-11 loss. If you can't see that, you're blind. In every great sports downfall, there are clear points of failure. For Joe Torre, some would say it was blowing game 7 in the 2001 World Series. Others would say it was blowing a 3 game lead against the Red Sox in the 2004 ALCS. Either way it was over for Torre's regime even though he got several more "another chance" years before they realized it was never going to work again. For Pat Riley's Knicks it was Charles Smith rebounding and missing under the basket for about 15 minutes straight. For Tom Coughlin it was blowing the #1 seed post-Plax. The points of failure are clear if you open your eyes.

3 straight years of "another chance" and you want to make it 4? Not to mention the same exact pattern of failure for 7 of his 8 years? You are a sucker.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 08:57 AM
From the guy who is on record as saying that we should have fired TC after the 2008 season . . . .you have no credibility at all dude.

LOL keep apologizing for failure even when you can't see the very point of failure.

Keep doing the same thing over and over.

CLEARLY the fall from grace was blowing the #1 seed at home to the hated Eagles in a humiliating 23-11 loss.* If you can't see that, you're blind.

But we already know that because you want to give him "another chance" after he's already had three straight years of "another chance" and he keeps failing, and in the same way too.


I have never said that TC should stay or go after this year . . . . I have just said that we should wait until after the final 5 games to make that evaluation. That is the way rational business people like the Giants front-office will look at the situation.

Irrational mouthbreathers like you take ridiculous positions like (1) TC should have been fired after the 2008 season; and (2) the late season collapse in 2004 was TC's fault and had nothing to do with starting a rookie QB who played terribly.

Do you see the difference between our positions now????

buddy33
12-04-2011, 08:57 AM
Injuries and the OL being just so bad are the reason for the collapse. Also, it seems that every year they have a cupcake schedule to start the season and look like champions until they play real teams. I do like TC but unfortunately his record against winning teams is very bad.

Do you know the records of other good coaches against winning teans (i.e., Belicheck, Cowher, Gruden, etc.)? Just curious.

No, I just know that someone posted TC's record and it's not good. In fact it is very bad. Those guys you mentioned though, BB I'm sure has a very good record, Cower did have his team in a bunch of AFC Championships, and I'm not so sure about Gruden.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 08:58 AM
Injuries and the OL being just so bad are the reason for the collapse. Also, it seems that every year they have a cupcake schedule to start the season and look like champions until they play real teams. I do like TC but unfortunately his record against winning teams is very bad.

Do you know the records of other good coaches against winning teans (i.e., Belicheck, Cowher, Gruden, etc.)? Just curious.

No, I just know that someone posted TC's record and it's not good. In fact it is very bad. Those guys you mentioned though, BB I'm sure has a very good record, Cower did have his team in a bunch of AFC Championships, and I'm not so sure about Gruden.

THe stat means nothing to me unless it is in comparison to other coaches. It may be significant, it may not.

SweetZombieJesus
12-04-2011, 08:59 AM
I have never said that TC should stay or go after this year . . . . I have just said that we should wait until after the final 5 games to make that evaluation. That is the way rational business people like the Giants front-office will look at the situation.

Irrational mouthbreathers like you take ridiculous positions like (1) TC should have been fired after the 2008 season; and (2) the late season collapse in 2004 was TC's fault and had nothing to do with starting a rookie QB who played terribly.

Do you see the difference between our positions now????

Gotta love it, the person who looks at the CLEAR trend is a "mouthbreather" but the little child closing his eyes curled in the corner hoping for a different result is "rational".

I guess you never heard of statistics nor do you have the ability to analyze performance.

As for the 2004 collapse, sure, at the time, we all blamed rookie Eli. But put it in context now, and it's just ONE of SEVEN separate collapses. That would lead a rational thinker to reconsider his original position in light of new evidence.

But then again, I'm sure you have excuses for each and every one of his SEVEN collapses.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 09:03 AM
I have never said that TC should stay or go after this year . . . . I have just said that we should wait until after the final 5 games to make that evaluation. That is the way rational business people like the Giants front-office will look at the situation.

Irrational mouthbreathers like you take ridiculous positions like (1) TC should have been fired after the 2008 season; and (2) the late season collapse in 2004 was TC's fault and had nothing to do with starting a rookie QB who played terribly.

Do you see the difference between our positions now????

Gotta love it, the person who looks at the CLEAR trend is a "mouthbreather" but the little child closing his eyes curled in the corner hoping for a different result is "rational".

I guess you never heard of statistics nor do you have the ability to analyze performance.

As for the 2004 collapse, sure, at the time, we all blamed rookie Eli.* But put it in context now, and it's just ONE of SEVEN separate collapses.* That would lead a rational thinker to reconsider his original position in light of new evidence.

But then again, I'm sure you have excuses for each and every one of his SEVEN collapses.


You wanted TC fired at the end of the 2008 season . . . . .lol

buddy33
12-04-2011, 09:04 AM
Not significant? If they can't beat good teams that is incredibly significant. BB has won 3 SB's and Cower has been to a buch of AFC championship games. I'm sure he beat some good teams to get there. Don't know about Cower, but as far as TC, I believe other than 2007 the times they went to the playoffs they where 1 and done.

Don't make this into me not liking TC, I do. Those numbers are just disturbing though.

SweetZombieJesus
12-04-2011, 09:07 AM
You wanted TC fired at the end of the 2008 season . . . . .lol

Yup, the team hasn't been competitive since then, has it? That season was the last time they won a critical game (securing home field against Carolina). There should have been a price to pay for such utter failure.

Haven't won a critical game since. Haven't been in the playoffs since. The team has crumbled to ashes in EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. OF. CONSEQUENCE. Since then. 2009 Saints on MNF -- trashed the season and kicked off a losing streak. Lose the last ever game at Giants Stadium 41-9. 2010 giving up a 24 point lead with 7:30 left to LOSE the division title and a guaranteed playoff spot; and then getting utterly demolished by Green Bay the following week with a playoff spot still up for grabs. Ah, good times for GMENLOSEAGAIN.

That 2008 collapse is a CLEAR POINT OF FAILURE. It was clear at the time, and it's only becoming more so as we pile on 3 more years of the same folly.

But I'm sure you have enjoyed the ensuing 3 years of failure and missing the playoffs, right? So much so you want a fourth?

LOL. Sucker. <font color="#FF0000">Next time will be different...</font>

http://garciamedialife.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/charlie_brown_lucy_football.jpg

SweetZombieJesus
12-04-2011, 09:14 AM
as far as TC, I believe other than 2007 the times they went to the playoffs they where 1 and done.

Don't make this into me not liking TC, I do. Those numbers are just disturbing though.

Never won a playoff game outside of 2007.

Never won a home playoff game either. In fact both home playoff games have been disgusting sleep-walking attrocities (23-0 vs Panthers in 2005; 23-11 vs Eagles in 2008).

Parcells' teams gave us great memories at home. Even Fassel's teams gave us some great Giants Stadium memories. Coughlin's teams give us nightmares. I don't think we've had anything good happen at MetLife yet...

brad
12-04-2011, 10:27 AM
Given the past few years, and the apparent continuation of that trend of late season collapse again this year, I would have to agree with those that are calling for Coughlin to go. Not because I dislike him, I like his approach... but his ability to get results is not what it once was.


Clearly injuries have played a part in these collapses, but one has to wonder why the Giants consistently have so many injuries while others do not. You also have to point to other teams that push past just as many injuries and continue to play at a high level. Injuries are part of the game and should not be an excuse year after year.


You can bring up a lot of excuses, and some are valid. However, you can see a turning point each of the past few years where the players seem to simply quit and the fans simultaneously say "here we go again". Those who want to say coaches don't make tackles or catch the ball are right, but it is on the coach to get players to play at a higher level or make a change... and that never seems to happen. Ultimately the coach is responsible for wins and loses and a coach can have a major impact on the intensity of his players... or in this case, lack of intensity.


Coughlin will always be remembered as the man who orchestrated the greatest Super Bowl win in Giants history... but at some point you have to cut your losses, in this case literally.

Die-Hard
12-04-2011, 10:54 AM
I am on record as saying that I like TC as a coach. He has proven that he can win games and build solid teams

HOWEVER, the pattern of collapse is indisputable. The numbers do not lie. For whatever reason, his teams fizzle when it matters most('07 being the obvious exception). Blame it on injuries, coaching, playcalling, scheme, lack of talent......whatever you can come up with. Bottom line is, the Head Coach has to answer for it, and has to pay the price when things go badly, or in this case, when the team continues to fall short. At this point, I'm ready for some new blood. If the Giants continue this downhill slide for the rest of the season, I'm pretty confident that the FO staff will see it that way as well, regardless of whether or not the fans think it's right.

juice33s
12-04-2011, 11:00 AM
INJURIES. Especially after losing Boley. When we lost him in the 2nd half of the game against the 49ers. I had a strong feeling we were going to lose the game and it was going to cost us some games. I don't know why but Jim Fassel's teams were heavily injury prone too. I think we might be jinxed or something. Expect for 2007 when everybody was injuried in the early part of the season and healed up just in time for playoffs<font size="3">. I think T.C. should get a two or three year extension.</font> If we suck next year then fire him and eat up his contract. The NY Giants profited 80 million last year. They can eat up his contract.
Lol, I find it hilarious that we've basically flamed out every season under Coughlin and yet people still act like they're surprised. Its just what the Coughlin regime does, and its time for him to go

Die-Hard
12-04-2011, 11:07 AM
INJURIES. Especially after losing Boley. When we lost him in the 2nd half of the game against the 49ers. I had a strong feeling we were going to lose the game and it was going to cost us some games. I don't know why but Jim Fassel's teams were heavily injury prone too. I think we might be jinxed or something. Expect for 2007 when everybody was injuried in the early part of the season and healed up just in time for playoffs<font size="3">. I think T.C. should get a two or three year extension.</font> If we suck next year then fire him and eat up his contract. The NY Giants profited 80 million last year. They can eat up his contract.
Lol, I find it hilarious that we've basically flamed out every season under Coughlin and yet people still act like they're surprised. Its just what the Coughlin regime does, and its time for him to go


A lot of people are giving him a lifetime pass because of the '07 SB, which is completely absurd. Guess they'd rather keep reliving that one instead of seeing another one

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 11:50 AM
You wanted TC fired at the end of the 2008 season . . . . .lol

Yup, the team hasn't been competitive since then, has it?* That season was the last time they won a critical game (securing home field against Carolina).* There should have been a price to pay for such utter failure.

Haven't won a critical game since.* Haven't been in the playoffs since.* The team has crumbled to ashes in EVERY.* SINGLE.* GAME.* OF.* CONSEQUENCE.* Since then.* 2009 Saints on MNF -- trashed the season and kicked off a losing streak.* Lose the last ever game at Giants Stadium 41-9.* 2010 giving up a 24 point lead with 7:30 left to LOSE the division title and a guaranteed playoff spot; and then getting utterly demolished by Green Bay the following week with a playoff spot still up for grabs.* Ah, good times for GMENLOSEAGAIN.*

That 2008 collapse is a CLEAR POINT OF FAILURE.* It was clear at the time, and it's only becoming more so as we pile on 3 more years of the same folly.

But I'm sure you have enjoyed the ensuing 3 years of failure and missing the playoffs, right?* So much so you want a fourth?

LOL.* Sucker.* <font color="#FF0000">Next time will be different...</font>

http://garciamedialife.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/charlie_brown_lucy_football.jpg


You wanted TC fired at the end of the 2008 season . . . lol

Shifty128
12-04-2011, 12:41 PM
You wanted TC fired at the end of the 2008 season . . . . .lol

Yup, the team hasn't been competitive since then, has it?* That season was the last time they won a critical game (securing home field against Carolina).* There should have been a price to pay for such utter failure.

Haven't won a critical game since.* Haven't been in the playoffs since.* The team has crumbled to ashes in EVERY.* SINGLE.* GAME.* OF.* CONSEQUENCE.* Since then.* 2009 Saints on MNF -- trashed the season and kicked off a losing streak.* Lose the last ever game at Giants Stadium 41-9.* 2010 giving up a 24 point lead with 7:30 left to LOSE the division title and a guaranteed playoff spot; and then getting utterly demolished by Green Bay the following week with a playoff spot still up for grabs.* Ah, good times for GMENLOSEAGAIN.*

That 2008 collapse is a CLEAR POINT OF FAILURE.* It was clear at the time, and it's only becoming more so as we pile on 3 more years of the same folly.

But I'm sure you have enjoyed the ensuing 3 years of failure and missing the playoffs, right?* So much so you want a fourth?

LOL.* Sucker.* <font color="#FF0000">Next time will be different...</font>

http://garciamedialife.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/charlie_brown_lucy_football.jpg


You wanted TC fired at the end of the 2008 season . . . lol

Is this the equivalent of throwing your hands over your ears and shouting, "La, la, la, la... I'm not listening!"?

JMFP2
12-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Iblame the 2nd half collapse on:</P>


#1 The Football gods: Lopsided Strength of Schedule</P>


A schedule that has been lopsided every season since the whole "collapse" legend was created. Look it up....its a statistical fact, not an opinion. The Giants 2nd half strength of schedule averages over 100 percentage points higher than the 1st half.</P>


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/11144/the-annual-pursuit-of-quitting-on-tom-coughlin</P>


#2 The Football gods, part 2: Injuries</P>


Our roster is hit hard, pretty much every year, and usually focused on one position, which exposed the team to an achilles heel that our opponents can exploit.</P>


This year, it's CB....last year, it was WR... a couple years ago it was DE....prior to that LB (who can forget facing the Panthers with linebackers that were literally pulled off the street?).</P>


#3 The Front Office: Quality of Roser</P>


99% of this board identified the offensive line and linebackers as key needs.....and so we come into 2011 with a CB that breaks his foot, and DT that tears his pec, and Jernal Jernigan at WR.........really????</P>


I've got this crazy idea......maybe, just ****MAYBE*** our GM gets this teama talented, everydown linebacker so we can stow this 4-2-5 horse crap.</P>


I'm convinced linebacker is more important than DE in shutting down today's high-powered offenses. You need a guy who can rush the passing, pursue a running back, and cover a tight end, on any given play, in any given scheme. A linebacker is best suited to handle those 3 assignments.</P>


#4 Players: Lack of Intensity / pride / leadership</P>


I see lack of hustle, lack of gang-tackling, lack of emotion. That's squarely on the players we have. There's no excuse for that, regardless of talent level. No reason why some guys (e.g., JPP, Manning, Cruz) are hustling while others are dogging it.</P>


#5 Coaching: Schemes</P>


This goes to Gilbride and Fewell, and by extension, Coughlin. In particular, you can pin the Seattle loss on Fewell, and the Eagles loss on Gilbride. Factor out some stupid gameplans, that that's 2 more wins, and a 8-3 Giants team right now.</P>


Everyone has a share in the blame, in my opinion. </P>

JMFP2
12-04-2011, 03:27 PM
Here's another article confirming the lopsided 2nd half schedules.</P>


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204449804577068901579773924.html</P>


</P>


</P>

SweetZombieJesus
12-04-2011, 03:42 PM
Is this the equivalent of throwing your hands over your ears and shouting, "La, la, la, la... I'm not listening!"?

LOL, thank you.

brad
12-04-2011, 03:51 PM
Here's another article confirming the lopsided 2nd half schedules.</P>


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204449804577068901579773924.html</P>


*</P>


*</P>

A good team should be able to compete with all other good teams... this is simply saying that the Giants are mediocre and unable to beat the good teams, in other words they aren't competitive with the quality NFL teams. IMHO, this just reinforces the argument for a coaching change.

NYfanatic
12-04-2011, 03:55 PM
as far as TC, I believe other than 2007 the times they went to the playoffs they where 1 and done.

Don't make this into me not liking TC, I do. Those numbers are just disturbing though.

Never won a playoff game outside of 2007.

Never won a home playoff game either. In fact both home playoff games have been disgusting sleep-walking attrocities (23-0 vs Panthers in 2005; 23-11 vs Eagles in 2008).

Parcells' teams gave us great memories at home. Even Fassel's teams gave us some great Giants Stadium memories. Coughlin's teams give us nightmares. I don't think we've had anything good happen at MetLife yet...

Metlife has been terrible to us and great to the jets.
We should just build another stadium just for us.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2011, 06:03 PM
Is this the equivalent of throwing your hands over your ears and shouting, "La, la, la, la... I'm not listening!"?

LOL, thank you.
</P>


You think that TC should have been fired after the 2008 season . . . lol</P>

BurnerNYG
12-04-2011, 06:10 PM
as far as TC, I believe other than 2007 the times they went to the playoffs they where 1 and done.

Don't make this into me not liking TC, I do. Those numbers are just disturbing though.

Never won a playoff game outside of 2007.

Never won a home playoff game either.* In fact both home playoff games have been disgusting sleep-walking attrocities (23-0 vs Panthers in 2005; 23-11 vs Eagles in 2008).

Parcells' teams gave us great memories at home.* Even Fassel's teams gave us some great Giants Stadium memories.* Coughlin's teams give us nightmares.* I don't think we've had anything good happen at MetLife yet...

Metlife has been terrible to us and great to the jets.
We should just build another stadium just for us.
I sure wish we could but that'll be a big financial loss. We're stuck with the Jets and this dumb *** stadium.