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View Full Version : Why is Eli being an elite QB still a debate?



sharick88
01-25-2012, 01:42 AM
What the **** does he need to do to end this bs? Walk on water? I am not an Eli homer, but he has all the tools to be deemed elite. He is clutch (best fourth quarter play in the business), he is tough (current leader in consecutive games), he makes plays (ask Green Bay and San Fran), and has the stats to make him comparable to the best QBs in the league. Mt Rushmore has 4 presidents on it. The active NFL QB Mt Rushmore has 4 QB's and Eli Manning deserves his spot on there. Crack is obviously in most NFL ANALysts' cheerios. People are always quick to point to his body language, yet he has been fired up as hell in this current run. That is no longer an excuse. Why the hate?

rainierjef
01-25-2012, 01:52 AM
What the **** does he need to do to end this bs? Walk on water? I am not an Eli homer, but he has all the tools to be deemed elite. He is clutch (best fourth quarter play in the business), he is tough (current leader in consecutive games), he makes plays (ask Green Bay and San Fran), and has the stats to make him comparable to the best QBs in the league. Mt Rushmore has 4 presidents on it. The active NFL QB Mt Rushmore has 4 QB's and Eli Manning deserves his spot on there. Crack is obviously in most NFL ANALysts' cheerios. People are always quick to point to his body language, yet he has been fired up as hell in this current run. That is no longer an excuse. Why the hate?

NFL analyst equate two things to QB elitness consistency and rings brady has all the rings and peyton has been consistently on top of his game for a long time with one ring. i think if eli wins this one the debate will have to cease cause he will be in a different bracket than rodgers, brees, peyton he will be next to brady in current QB's with more than one ring. and the fact that he's had a stellar year cut down the only thing that they harped on last year the interceptions, plus his play in the playoffs and the ring if he gets it. yeah they will have no choice but to acknowledge him.

JJC7301
01-25-2012, 01:55 AM
It's not debatable anymore than the earth circles around the sun. If some people want to argue that the sun revolves around the earth, and that Eli is not an elite QB, then let them bang their heads against the wall.

We'll be laughing at them when Eli enters the HOF, eventually.

greenca190
01-25-2012, 02:04 AM
Why isn't Roethlisberger elite?

Is it just me, or is he turning into the new Eli?

Itlan
01-25-2012, 02:08 AM
Why isn't Roethlisberger elite?

Is it just me, or is he turning into the new Eli?Cause he's just not that good lol.

calzonesays
01-25-2012, 02:10 AM
If Eli played in the same system that Brees and Rodgers do he would pretty much have similar numbers to them. Those teams pretty much run the spread, almost never run the ball, most of the "running game" for those systems is screen passes, short passes and check downs. Giants still run the ball 20+ times a game. Don't get me wrong, Rodgers and Brees are elite hands down, but look what Matt Flynn did that game Aaron Rodgers rested.

Eli TO Shockey
01-25-2012, 02:15 AM
ELI is a beast.

lets not forget big ben has 2 superbowl rings

calzonesays
01-25-2012, 02:18 AM
ELI is a beast.

lets not forget big ben has 2 superbowl rings


Big Ben has 1 superbowl ring, Bill Leavy has 1 superbowl ring.

DragonSoul
01-25-2012, 02:20 AM
ELI is a beast.

lets not forget big ben has 2 superbowl rings
Pitt won the 1st one with Ben trying to give the game away, but the refs blew the 1st official SB game.

The other one he played well, but it was the Cards, who had no defense.

It is what it is.

arrjay
01-25-2012, 02:57 AM
......Big Ben has 1 superbowl ring, Bill Leavy has 1 superbowl ring.





ain't that the truth....

gumby742
01-25-2012, 08:29 AM
ELI is a beast.

lets not forget big ben has 2 superbowl rings
Pitt won the 1st one with Ben trying to give the game away, but the refs blew the 1st official SB game. The other one he played well, but it was the Cards, who had no defense. It is what it is.</P>


Ben has been to 3 SBs and won 2. Trying to discredit his performance in his first SB run because he had a poor SB performance (but great in the playoffs and regular season) is like saying Eli didn't really win his first SB because the defense won it.</P>


Let's look in the mirror a bit shall we? However you want to slice it, Ben deserves to be in the elite category if Eli is. I really don't care which one is better, but if you think Eli is "elite", then you should think Ben is also. Otherwise, you're just being hypocritical.</P>

FBomb
01-25-2012, 08:44 AM
The debate still goes on because people are in love with their own opinions and will do whatever they can do hold onto them. The truth is, whether we win this game or not (I think we will), we got through the regular season on the back of Eli Manning and his receivers. Eli is elite....it is no longer in doubt.

That being said, we don't win any playoff game this year without offense, defense and special teams. Which is how it should be. Teams win championships not players.

FlipNYG77
01-25-2012, 08:47 AM
even if eli wins this coming superbowl.....haters will just up the ante.....now if he repeats as champ..that would shut everybody up

GameTime
01-25-2012, 08:49 AM
who cares anymore.</P>


Its such a dead horse and in the long run means absolutley nothing...</P>


If some day he belongs in the HOF these debates wont matter one bit and wont even be a consideration.</P>


</P>


</P>

gumby742
01-25-2012, 08:50 AM
If you're going to take anything out of this post, take the word, "perception". The reason why I think it's still a debate among NFL Analysts and even some fans is 2 fold i imo:</P>


1) NFL Analysts need something to talk about. Half the time they just muck something up and have 2 sides purposely take opposite stands.</P>


2) For all intensive purposes, Eli has had only 1 clearly "elite" season, and that is this year. Prior to this year he's been up and down up and down and people didn't know what to make of him. He's been labeled and removing one is very difficult. Also, some people need more then 1 year to be convinced.</P>


#2 is debatable which I'm not going to get into. But one thing that people forget is that when it comes to labeling players, perception is everything. Agree with it or not, Eli has been labeled by the public as inconsistent. And we all know that once you're labeled, it's extremely difficult to change that. Can you imagine the class "geek" trying to become a "jock"? Impossible.</P>


Just let me stress one more time that, being "elite" or whatever term you want to use, is based strictly on perception. You can argue until you're blue in the face about why Eli really had great years all along and this year is no different, etc etc, but if the majority of the people don't perceive it that way, it won't matter and you're going to be perceived as a nut case. I went to a private school back in the day and our headmaster gave an hour long lecture about labeling and changing labels within the High School. Looking back it was a great lecture.</P>


You are what you're labeled as. You can change a label, but it's going to take time and you can't expect people to change over night. Eli - same deal.</P>

Morehead State
01-25-2012, 08:53 AM
What the **** does he need to do to end this bs? Walk on water? I am not an Eli homer, but he has all the tools to be deemed elite. He is clutch (best fourth quarter play in the business), he is tough (current leader in consecutive games), he makes plays (ask Green Bay and San Fran), and has the stats to make him comparable to the best QBs in the league. Mt Rushmore has 4 presidents on it. The active NFL QB Mt Rushmore has 4 QB's and Eli Manning deserves his spot on there. Crack is obviously in most NFL ANALysts' cheerios. People are always quick to point to his body language, yet he has been fired up as hell in this current run. That is no longer an excuse. Why the hate?</P>


Don't start this up again G. Its time to enjoy the moment without creating a lot of contention.</P>


</P>

FBomb
01-25-2012, 08:54 AM
If you're going to take anything out of this post, take the word, "perception".* The reason why I think it's still a debate among NFL Analysts and even some fans is 2 fold i imo:</P>


1)* NFL Analysts need something to talk about.* Half the time they just muck something up and have 2 sides purposely take opposite stands.</P>


2)* For all intensive purposes, Eli has had only 1 clearly "elite" season, and that is this year.* Prior to this year he's been up and down up and down and people didn't know what to make of him.* He's been labeled and removing one is very difficult.* Also, some people need more then 1 year to be convinced.</P>


#2 is debatable which I'm not going to get into.* But one thing that people forget is that when it comes to labeling players, perception is everything.* Agree with it or not, Eli has been labeled by the public as inconsistent.* And we all know that once you're labeled, it's extremely difficult to change that.* Can you imagine the class "geek" trying to become a "jock"?* Impossible.</P>


Just let me stress one more time that, being "elite" or whatever term you want to use, is based strictly on perception.* You can argue until you're blue in the face about why Eli really had great years all along and this year is no different, etc etc, but if the majority of the people don't perceive it that way, it won't matter and you're going to be perceived as a nut case.* I went to a private school back in the day and our headmaster gave an hour long lecture about labeling and changing labels within the High School.* Looking back it was a great lecture.</P>


You are what you're labeled as.** You can change a label, but it's going to take time and you can't expect people to change over night.* Eli - same deal.</P>

There are those who "perceive" Eli as soft or not a tough player simply based on his demeanor. Just because it's someone's perception doesn't mean it isn't stupid perception.

PatsFanNH
01-25-2012, 08:56 AM
IMO Eli is top 5 QB.. actually he is #5. MY top 4...(not in order)

Brady -- 10 seasons 6 AFCCG Games 5 SB Appearances 3/4 SB wins, 2 league MVP's, 2 (maybe 3) SB MVP's. NUMEROUS records

Peyton --Numerous League MVP's, SB MVP, 2 SB appearances 1 SB win. Numerous records..

Brees -- Broke Marinos yardage record, SB champion,

Rodgers --League MVP this yr (I am almost certain.) sb Champion.

As I wrote this you could put Eli in with Brees and Rodgers but Peyton and Brady are sorta the Marino and Montana of their generation.. They are on a different level then all the other QB's in the league... But Eli is Elite w his generation.

bandwgn86
01-25-2012, 08:57 AM
anyone else so sick of the word elite? i can officially say i hate that word.

Burgermiesta
01-25-2012, 09:01 AM
I totally agree I am sick and tired of people riding him and being critical of him. He is a SB winning QB, a SB MVP, is blowing up every Phil Simms record there is for the franchise and he has won his Divisions, conferences and SB quicker than Payton...I am at a loss myself. I think it is nonsense. I can't stand Chris Collinsworth's comments about him everytime he plays on NBC ( and the SB is on NBC so we have the joy of Collinswoth all evening...DB)and Joe Buck's on Fox. The debate has to end already...He is ELITE and our QB of the New York Giants!</P>

MattMeyerBud
01-25-2012, 09:01 AM
What the **** does he need to do to end this bs? Walk on water? I am not an Eli homer, but he has all the tools to be deemed elite. He is clutch (best fourth quarter play in the business), he is tough (current leader in consecutive games), he makes plays (ask Green Bay and San Fran), and has the stats to make him comparable to the best QBs in the league. Mt Rushmore has 4 presidents on it. The active NFL QB Mt Rushmore has 4 QB's and Eli Manning deserves his spot on there. Crack is obviously in most NFL ANALysts' cheerios. People are always quick to point to his body language, yet he has been fired up as hell in this current run. That is no longer an excuse. Why the hate?

i personally hate him because he was suppose to be a charger and wasn't

#teamrivers

MattMeyerBud
01-25-2012, 09:02 AM
IMO Eli is top 5 QB.. actually he is #5. MY top 4...(not in order)

Brady -- 10 seasons 6 AFCCG Games 5 SB Appearances 3/4 SB wins, 2 league MVP's, 2 (maybe 3) SB MVP's. NUMEROUS records

Peyton --Numerous League MVP's, SB MVP, 2 SB appearances 1 SB win. Numerous records..

Brees -- Broke Marinos yardage record, SB champion,

Rodgers --League MVP this yr (I am almost certain.) sb Champion.

As I wrote this you could put Eli in with Brees and Rodgers but Peyton and Brady are sorta the Marino and Montana of their generation.. They are on a different level then all the other QB's in the league... But Eli is Elite w his generation.




thats absolutely fair

Dwinsballgames
01-25-2012, 09:03 AM
The word "elite" is a subjective term. There are no clear guidelines to define what it takes to meet that standard. As such, it is usually comes down to a comparison to contemporaries and those whom have come before. But as AR likes to say ":at the end of the day" because it is subjective, it comes down to opinion and opinions are like butt holes, everyone hasone and everyone thinks everyone elses stinks.

freeoscar
01-25-2012, 09:04 AM
Eli is clearly top 5 among active QBs. (Brady, brees , Rodgers, roethlisberger). If he wins this SB, I could argue top 3. Imo brees isn't at that level b/c he hasn't won a single playoff game outside of the SuperDome. Its such a huge advantage and his whole team is designed for that place. Plus he pads his stats against crappy teams, passing late in blowout games.

PatsFanNH
01-25-2012, 09:06 AM
I totally agree I am sick and tired of people riding him and being critical of him. He is a SB winning QB, a SB MVP, is blowing up every Phil Simms record there is for the franchise and he has won his Divisions, conferences and SB quicker than Payton...I am at a loss myself. I think it is nonsense. I can't stand Chris Collinsworth's comments about him everytime he plays on NBC ( and the SB is on NBC so we have the joy of Collinswoth all evening...DB)and Joe Buck's on Fox. The debate has to end already...He is ELITE and our QB of the New York Giants!</p>

As my Colt friends would say EVERYTHING you mentioned was a team accomplishment. Eli has had the BETTER TEAM around him. As I said before he is an ELITE QB but his Brother is a 1st ballot HOFrr so stop comparing the two.. its like little brother syndrome here lol

SackingMyths
01-25-2012, 09:13 AM
who cares anymore.</p>


Its such a dead horse and in the long run means absolutley nothing...</p>


If some day he belongs in the HOF these debates wont matter one bit and wont even be a consideration.</p>


</p>


</p>

I don't have a problem engaging in conversation with knowledgeable fans.

People that still won't say that Eli is a top QB in this league are NOT knowledgeable fans.

There's your answer.

CTLadyBlue
01-25-2012, 09:22 AM
Heard this being debated AGAIN on First Take on Mad Dog Radio. The reason he isn't considered elite? Because he doesn't have the 'look' of an elite QB. He's not tall, smooth and runway pretty like Brady, he's not whoring it up like Rothlisberger did (before he got hastily married out of damage control mode - my opinion only)he's not charismatic and humorous like his brother, he doesn't put up sexy stats and play for a 'city on the mend' like Brees and he isn't a phoenix rising from the ashes of Favre like Rodgers. He doesn't have the 'it' factor (I swear, this is the excuse they used!). They say he's too 'goofy' too 'aw shucks' and just doesn't possess the 'look' or 'persona' of what 'elite' means

gumby742
01-25-2012, 09:49 AM
If you're going to take anything out of this post, take the word, "perception". The reason why I think it's still a debate among NFL Analysts and even some fans is 2 fold i imo:</P>


1) NFL Analysts need something to talk about. Half the time they just muck something up and have 2 sides purposely take opposite stands.</P>


2) For all intensive purposes, Eli has had only 1 clearly "elite" season, and that is this year. Prior to this year he's been up and down up and down and people didn't know what to make of him. He's been labeled and removing one is very difficult. Also, some people need more then 1 year to be convinced.</P>


#2 is debatable which I'm not going to get into. But one thing that people forget is that when it comes to labeling players, perception is everything. Agree with it or not, Eli has been labeled by the public as inconsistent. And we all know that once you're labeled, it's extremely difficult to change that. Can you imagine the class "geek" trying to become a "jock"? Impossible.</P>


Just let me stress one more time that, being "elite" or whatever term you want to use, is based strictly on perception. You can argue until you're blue in the face about why Eli really had great years all along and this year is no different, etc etc, but if the majority of the people don't perceive it that way, it won't matter and you're going to be perceived as a nut case. I went to a private school back in the day and our headmaster gave an hour long lecture about labeling and changing labels within the High School. Looking back it was a great lecture.</P>


You are what you're labeled as. You can change a label, but it's going to take time and you can't expect people to change over night. Eli - same deal.</P>


There are those who "perceive" Eli as soft or not a tough player simply based on his demeanor. Just because it's someone's perception doesn't mean it isn't stupid perception.</P>


True, it's still a slippery slope on what is seen as stupid though. My whole point in bringing up perception is to just make a point that there's a reason why people may think a certain way - different then you, and that it's probably better to at least acknowledge it and understand why it exists.</P>


A quick story. My sister in law just started watching football the last 4-5 years or so because of my brother. Her conclusion: Eli is not a leader. Basically she's a Harvard law grad , turned lawyer, turned teacher to teach underprivileged kids in the ghetto so she's more then qualified enough to figure out what constitutes a leader. </P>


In a nutshell, this is what she saw. Teammates calling Eli out as not being a leader. Eli's demeanor - quiet, calm, collected. Eli doesn't rally the troops during or in the beginning of games. Eli's inconsistent play. When a touchdown or something good happens, team mates don't rush to celebrate with him (where as if you watch other top QBs, they have more attention among their teammates), other team's players calling him out, and some other stuff.</P>


I don't know if she's since changed her view after this season, but imo Eli is definitely a leader and has been for a long time. I told her I disagree with her because not all of us know what happens in the locker room. But based on what she saw and experienced, i couldn't fault her for thinking he was not a leader because quite honestly there wasn't much I could say to defend my view.</P>

DragonSoul
01-25-2012, 09:54 AM
ELI is a beast.

lets not forget big ben has 2 superbowl rings
Pitt won the 1st one with Ben trying to give the game away, but the refs blew the 1st official SB game. The other one he played well, but it was the Cards, who had no defense. It is what it is.</P>


Ben has been to 3 SBs and won 2.* Trying to discredit his performance in his first SB run because he had a poor SB performance (but great in the playoffs and regular season) is like saying Eli didn't really win his first SB because the defense won it.</P>


Let's look in the mirror a bit shall we?* However you want to slice it, Ben deserves to be in the elite category if Eli is.** I really don't care which one is better, but if you think Eli is "elite", then you should think Ben is also.* Otherwise, you're just being hypocritical.</P>Your comparison to Bens vs Elis 1st SB you can easily prove you assertion is incorrect, easily by the numbers and even by the record books. That game his numbers were as bad as they could be, and thats only part of it. Everyone says the Refs gave the game away (if you watched it, you saw it) But then you had the top tier, running game, defense and offensive line. Wouldn't be surprised if they had a top tier ST.

While he faced the Cards in his 2nd go around, and they were not a great team imho (not based on record, same as ours is currently) but Ben played well in that game.

burier
01-25-2012, 09:55 AM
I dont give a damn who you want to put in the Elite Category as long as you know Eli is in there.

mr.hiroki
01-25-2012, 09:57 AM
What the **** does he need to do to end this bs? Walk on water? I am not an Eli homer, but he has all the tools to be deemed elite. He is clutch (best fourth quarter play in the business), he is tough (current leader in consecutive games), he makes plays (ask Green Bay and San Fran), and has the stats to make him comparable to the best QBs in the league. Mt Rushmore has 4 presidents on it. The active NFL QB Mt Rushmore has 4 QB's and Eli Manning deserves his spot on there. Crack is obviously in most NFL ANALysts' cheerios. People are always quick to point to his body language, yet he has been fired up as hell in this current run. That is no longer an excuse. Why the hate? NFL analyst equate two things to QB elitness consistency and rings brady has all the rings and peyton has been consistently on top of his game for a long time with one ring. i think if eli wins this one the debate will have to cease cause he will be in a different bracket than rodgers, brees, peyton he will be next to brady in current QB's with more than one ring. and the fact that he's had a stellar year cut down the only thing that they harped on last year the interceptions, plus his play in the playoffs and the ring if he gets it. yeah they will have no choice but to acknowledge him.</P>


i agree. also imo, one really good season does not make a qb elite. just last season he threw how many interceptions? people were calling for his head........that doesn't happen with elite qbs. consistency is key, and eli has not been consistent. prior to this season, he had some good games, but on a game to game basis we were never really sure which eli was gonna show up; calm, cool, and collected eli or the eli that stands around with that 'awe shucks,' look on his face and looks like a deer in the headlights when he screws up. imo eli has the ability to be elite, now he needs to be consistent with that ability.</P>

gumby742
01-25-2012, 09:58 AM
ELI is a beast.

lets not forget big ben has 2 superbowl rings
Pitt won the 1st one with Ben trying to give the game away, but the refs blew the 1st official SB game. The other one he played well, but it was the Cards, who had no defense. It is what it is.</P>


Ben has been to 3 SBs and won 2. Trying to discredit his performance in his first SB run because he had a poor SB performance (but great in the playoffs and regular season) is like saying Eli didn't really win his first SB because the defense won it.</P>


Let's look in the mirror a bit shall we? However you want to slice it, Ben deserves to be in the elite category if Eli is. I really don't care which one is better, but if you think Eli is "elite", then you should think Ben is also. Otherwise, you're just being hypocritical.</P>


Your comparison to Bens vs Elis 1st SB you can easily prove you assertion is incorrect, easily by the numbers and even by the record books. That game his numbers were as bad as they could be, and thats only part of it. Everyone says the Refs gave the game away (if you watched it, you saw it) But then you had the top tier, running game, defense and offensive line. Wouldn't be surprised if they had a top tier ST. While he faced the Cards in his 2nd go around, and they were not a great team imho (not based on record, same as ours is currently) but Ben played well in that game.</P>


No, but you're completely ignoring the fact that Ben had a stellar regular season AND playoffs. Without Ben playing that well, they probably would not have been in the SB at all.</P>

DragonSoul
01-25-2012, 09:59 AM
If you're going to take anything out of this post, take the word, "perception".* The reason why I think it's still a debate among NFL Analysts and even some fans is 2 fold i imo:</P>


1)* NFL Analysts need something to talk about.* Half the time they just muck something up and have 2 sides purposely take opposite stands.</P>


2)* For all intensive purposes, Eli has had only 1 clearly "elite" season, and that is this year.* Prior to this year he's been up and down up and down and people didn't know what to make of him.* He's been labeled and removing one is very difficult.* Also, some people need more then 1 year to be convinced.</P>


#2 is debatable which I'm not going to get into.* But one thing that people forget is that when it comes to labeling players, perception is everything.* Agree with it or not, Eli has been labeled by the public as inconsistent.* And we all know that once you're labeled, it's extremely difficult to change that.* Can you imagine the class "geek" trying to become a "jock"?* Impossible.</P>


Just let me stress one more time that, being "elite" or whatever term you want to use, is based strictly on perception.* You can argue until you're blue in the face about why Eli really had great years all along and this year is no different, etc etc, but if the majority of the people don't perceive it that way, it won't matter and you're going to be perceived as a nut case.* I went to a private school back in the day and our headmaster gave an hour long lecture about labeling and changing labels within the High School.* Looking back it was a great lecture.</P>


You are what you're labeled as.** You can change a label, but it's going to take time and you can't expect people to change over night.* Eli - same deal.</P>Stat wise from his rookie year (now you are making me debate you, on Eli that I said I barely do now ffs lol) all of his numbers basically went up in all good areas. Last year was his off year for Ints, which we debated till we killed the horse. Yet people fail to realize that we ended up with a 10-6 record, with a kick away from another playoff run. People also seem to forget his yards, comp%, YPA, TDS all went up that year once again. I never knew 1 stat makes or breaks you! And it was also shown about the 10 tips for ints, and that it was shown he was the worst off with luck, while Brady and vick in the same year were the luckiest, that most of their ints fell to the ground.

gumby742
01-25-2012, 10:27 AM
If you're going to take anything out of this post, take the word, "perception". The reason why I think it's still a debate among NFL Analysts and even some fans is 2 fold i imo:</P>


1) NFL Analysts need something to talk about. Half the time they just muck something up and have 2 sides purposely take opposite stands.</P>


2) For all intensive purposes, Eli has had only 1 clearly "elite" season, and that is this year. Prior to this year he's been up and down up and down and people didn't know what to make of him. He's been labeled and removing one is very difficult. Also, some people need more then 1 year to be convinced.</P>


#2 is debatable which I'm not going to get into. But one thing that people forget is that when it comes to labeling players, perception is everything. Agree with it or not, Eli has been labeled by the public as inconsistent. And we all know that once you're labeled, it's extremely difficult to change that. Can you imagine the class "geek" trying to become a "jock"? Impossible.</P>


Just let me stress one more time that, being "elite" or whatever term you want to use, is based strictly on perception. You can argue until you're blue in the face about why Eli really had great years all along and this year is no different, etc etc, but if the majority of the people don't perceive it that way, it won't matter and you're going to be perceived as a nut case. I went to a private school back in the day and our headmaster gave an hour long lecture about labeling and changing labels within the High School. Looking back it was a great lecture.</P>


You are what you're labeled as. You can change a label, but it's going to take time and you can't expect people to change over night. Eli - same deal.</P>


Stat wise from his rookie year (now you are making me debate you, on Eli that I said I barely do now ffs lol) all of his numbers basically went up in all good areas. Last year was his off year for Ints, which we debated till we killed the horse. Yet people fail to realize that we ended up with a 10-6 record, with a kick away from another playoff run. People also seem to forget his yards, comp%, YPA, TDS all went up that year once again. I never knew 1 stat makes or breaks you! And it was also shown about the 10 tips for ints, and that it was shown he was the worst off with luck, while Brady and vick in the same year were the luckiest, that most of their ints fell to the ground.</P>


You missed the entire point of my post. I'm addressing why people may STILL not give Eli "respect" or call him "elite" - even after he was the man this year.</P>

DragonSoul
01-25-2012, 10:39 AM
ELI is a beast.

lets not forget big ben has 2 superbowl rings
Pitt won the 1st one with Ben trying to give the game away, but the refs blew the 1st official SB game. The other one he played well, but it was the Cards, who had no defense. It is what it is.</P>


Ben has been to 3 SBs and won 2.* Trying to discredit his performance in his first SB run because he had a poor SB performance (but great in the playoffs and regular season) is like saying Eli didn't really win his first SB because the defense won it.</P>


Let's look in the mirror a bit shall we?* However you want to slice it, Ben deserves to be in the elite category if Eli is.** I really don't care which one is better, but if you think Eli is "elite", then you should think Ben is also.* Otherwise, you're just being hypocritical.</P>


Your comparison to Bens vs Elis 1st SB you can easily prove you assertion is incorrect, easily by the numbers and even by the record books. That game his numbers were as bad as they could be, and thats only part of it. Everyone says the Refs gave the game away (if you watched it, you saw it) But then you had the top tier, running game, defense and offensive line. Wouldn't be surprised if they had a top tier ST. While he faced the Cards in his 2nd go around, and they were not a great team imho (not based on record, same as ours is currently) but Ben played well in that game.</P>


No, but you're completely* ignoring the fact that Ben had a stellar regular season AND playoffs.* Without Ben playing that well, they probably would not have been in the SB at all.</P>I will add, that was part of getting the team to 3 SBs and that you honestly cannot take away from him.

But you also have to keep it all in context as well. It seems many like to focus on what suits their argument, and over look the rest, that gives you the full picture.

gumby742
01-25-2012, 10:49 AM
ELI is a beast.

lets not forget big ben has 2 superbowl rings
Pitt won the 1st one with Ben trying to give the game away, but the refs blew the 1st official SB game. The other one he played well, but it was the Cards, who had no defense. It is what it is.</P>


Ben has been to 3 SBs and won 2. Trying to discredit his performance in his first SB run because he had a poor SB performance (but great in the playoffs and regular season) is like saying Eli didn't really win his first SB because the defense won it.</P>


Let's look in the mirror a bit shall we? However you want to slice it, Ben deserves to be in the elite category if Eli is. I really don't care which one is better, but if you think Eli is "elite", then you should think Ben is also. Otherwise, you're just being hypocritical.</P>


Your comparison to Bens vs Elis 1st SB you can easily prove you assertion is incorrect, easily by the numbers and even by the record books. That game his numbers were as bad as they could be, and thats only part of it. Everyone says the Refs gave the game away (if you watched it, you saw it) But then you had the top tier, running game, defense and offensive line. Wouldn't be surprised if they had a top tier ST. While he faced the Cards in his 2nd go around, and they were not a great team imho (not based on record, same as ours is currently) but Ben played well in that game.</P>


No, but you're completely ignoring the fact that Ben had a stellar regular season AND playoffs. Without Ben playing that well, they probably would not have been in the SB at all.</P>


I will add, that was part of getting the team to 3 SBs and that you honestly cannot take away from him. But you also have to keep it all in context as well. It seems many like to focus on what suits their argument, and over look the rest, that gives you the full picture.</P>


If you really did look at the full picture, you wouldn't just focus on one game, one stat, one year because that's exactly what you do. In virtually every category, Ben outpaces Eli. It's terribly hypocritical to say that Eli is "elite" and Ben isn't.</P>


There is something wrong when you can say that Eli is "elite" andthe you dismiss Ben as an afterthought. That's all I'm saying.</P>

CDN_G-FAN
01-25-2012, 10:52 AM
people are slow to change their opinions on everything.</P>


the smarter analysts have already done so, the ones that are just reading headlines and haven't been paying attention to Giants games are the ones that will take awhile.</P>


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