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DragonSoul
01-25-2012, 06:55 PM
Take a moment to really soak it in!!! And if that doesn't give you chills then imagine what another 6-9 years (knock on wood) may bring.

====================================
Eli Maning ----------- 7-1
Terry Bradshaw ---- 6-3
Rodger Staubach -- 6-3
Tom Brady ----------- 6-4
Joe Montana -------- 6-5

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 01:42 AM
no comments haters? Like to ignore the pain you would feel if you read this huh?

miked1958
01-26-2012, 09:56 AM
Take a moment to really soak it in!!! And if that doesn't give you chills then imagine what another 6-9 years (knock on wood) may bring. ==================================== Eli Maning ----------- 6-1 Tom Brady ----------- 6-3 Terry Bradshaw ---- 6-3 Rodger Staubach -- 6-3 Joe Montana -------- 6-5</P>


THIS IS AWESOME.. I made several posts about Eli and TCs record including the SB which was tech considered another Away Game within last week but didnt get as much response as i would have expected. </P>


I also pointed out that Eli took over the Record for most 4th quarter Tds (15) to Peyton and Johnny's (14)...</P>


This is suchan INCREDIBLE STAT that you just brought out.

I even included a list of the BEST all time QBs that did not equal what Eli has done...On it other then whats already on your list,,, were Elway, Marino, Unitas, Starr, Simms, Baugh, Dawson, Rodgers, Brees, Moon, tarkenton, stabler, Young, Aikeman, Earl Morrall, Fouts, Namath, Kelly, Thiesman, the other dallas qb..um...Romo, Rivers, Rothlisberger.
It goes on and on and on..... </P>


</P>

miked1958
01-26-2012, 09:58 AM
All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </P>


What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</P>

miked1958
01-26-2012, 09:59 AM
By the way. Just Asking. Why did you put this Thread in Smack Talk???? It should be in TAGF for all to see. Its worth it.

miked1958
01-26-2012, 10:48 AM
See i was right. This thread is not getting the attention it really deserves in this Smack Forum

GmenFan1980
01-26-2012, 11:18 AM
I posted in the other one in the "talk about giants" section :( sorry

miked1958
01-26-2012, 11:53 AM
didnt see that one... link

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 02:02 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?

jjj45
01-26-2012, 02:11 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
I might ask you the same question. [;)]

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 02:17 PM
All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>

To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 02:18 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
I might ask you the same question. [;)]


Because Jerry Jones is our general manager.

GmenFan1980
01-26-2012, 02:19 PM
didnt see that one... link

http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/2457239.aspx

CGYgiant
01-26-2012, 02:29 PM
All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>

To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).


So then Aikman defnietly is not elite right?

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 02:53 PM
So then Aikman defnietly is not elite right?


Aikman played in a different era. If he played today and put up the same stats that he did then, I'd say absolutely not.

Was he elite in his era? Well that's also hard to judge. The media would have you think so, but compared to other guys like Marino, Young, Moon, Elway, and in later years Favre, he was little more than a bus driver. However he was very consistently ranked amongst those guys in YPA, completion percentage, int%, QB rating, etc etc, while making a few appearances on the leaderboards in completed passes, yards, and TDs. Combine that with 3 superbowl rings and it's still on the edge. It depends on how you look at it.

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 03:24 PM
didnt see that one... linkhttp://boards.giants.com/forums/2458774/ShowThread.aspx#2458774

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 03:29 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
All his early games were @ home. So he still was green and inexperienced. Also do not forget that Giants stadium was/is one of the worst stadiums to play in based on the wind, and those playoff games are now coming at the worst times of the year based on weather/winds.

How many QBs win any type of playoff games early in their career (home or away), without being helped by the team to get them throughout it? And again, not many have such hostile conditions @ times.

Just look at the last playoff game. If he have had played bad, then you might of had a point.

miked1958
01-26-2012, 03:58 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
Yes he had his struggles early on in his career. Then the year Plax shot himself we started out 11-1 but with the Dline breaking down and no backups we were booted out in 1st round in a bad game. </P>


in 05 lost 23-0 to carolina at home</P>


in 08 (yr after SB) lost in at home to Philly 23-11. </P>


However I wouldnt call beating a team with roddy white, Julio and Turner @ home 24-2 struggling. </P>


He also set another record this season. Prior to this year the record for most TD passes in the 4th quarter was shared by peyton manning and Johnny Unitas with 14 each. This year Eli threw for 15 of them. </P>


He has done it again in the 4th quarther of playoffs. He is clutch when it counts.</P>

JPP
01-26-2012, 04:34 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?


Well I guess that would be a chances thing as well because he hasn't had nearly as many chances at home then on the road.

About Eli not being Elite I figure 4000 yards and 30 TD's in the last 2 seasons before this year help prove that consistency has developed in his game since the Superbowl run. And now this year when most QB's took it up a notch Eli didn't just stay back he kicked it up and was just a few yards short of being a handful of QB's to break 5K. As for the TD/INT ratio well obviously he had a rough go for the 1st 3 years or so but last year and this year hasn't had the best protection, lots of WR tipped balls last year. Being truthful I as well didn't think I would ever view Eli as an Elite QB because of many of the reasons you listed but when you factor in that we are probably not only missing the playoffs but selecting top 5 in the draft without him. He puts us in a position to win every game even if nobody else shows up for 3 quarters our team knows if they keep it close enough that Eli can go out there and win.

miked1958
01-26-2012, 04:44 PM
didnt see that one... linkhttp://boards.giants.com/forums/2458774/ShowThread.aspx#2458774</P>


thanks</P>

miked1958
01-26-2012, 04:48 PM
All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </P>


What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</P>




To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
</P>


So after he wins his 2nd Ring in 4 years on feb 5th. Has the most wins 6 away from home in playoff history, has the record for most 4th quarter Tds.... You dont think all of your fanbase wouldnt kill to have Eli over Romo... Come on now answer it honestly... </P>

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 05:26 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
All his early games were @ home. So he still was green and inexperienced. Also do not forget that Giants stadium was/is one of the worst stadiums to play in based on the wind, and those playoff games are now coming at the worst times of the year based on weather/winds.

How many QBs win any type of playoff games early in their career (home or away), without being helped by the team to get them throughout it? And again, not many have such hostile conditions @ times.

Just look at the last playoff game. If he have had played bad, then you might of had a point.

2008?

The bolded part goes both ways.

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 05:32 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
All his early games were @ home. So he still was green and inexperienced. Also do not forget that Giants stadium was/is one of the worst stadiums to play in based on the wind, and those playoff games are now coming at the worst times of the year based on weather/winds.

How many QBs win any type of playoff games early in their career (home or away), without being helped by the team to get them throughout it? And again, not many have such hostile conditions @ times.

Just look at the last playoff game. If he have had played bad, then you might of had a point.

2008?

The bolded part goes both ways.
Lost by a FG? After we lost our top tier wr cause he was dumb enough to shoot himself? I did not think it would have been a factor, but apparently it was. As Eli while improving each year, wasn't at the point, and it didn't help with who he had left. Really only reliable one at that time was Toomer.

Also I am about to reply to your Eli isn't Elite post. Couldn't earlier as I wasn't going to have time to... So if you want, feel free to wait for that one, so we can merge the talk lol.

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 05:33 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?


Well I guess that would be a chances thing as well because he hasn't had nearly as many chances at home then on the road.

About Eli not being Elite I figure 4000 yards and 30 TD's in the last 2 seasons before this year help prove that consistency has developed in his game since the Superbowl run. And now this year when most QB's took it up a notch Eli didn't just stay back he kicked it up and was just a few yards short of being a handful of QB's to break 5K. As for the TD/INT ratio well obviously he had a rough go for the 1st 3 years or so but last year and this year hasn't had the best protection, lots of WR tipped balls last year. Being truthful I as well didn't think I would ever view Eli as an Elite QB because of many of the reasons you listed but when you factor in that we are probably not only missing the playoffs but selecting top 5 in the draft without him. He puts us in a position to win every game even if nobody else shows up for 3 quarters our team knows if they keep it close enough that Eli can go out there and win.

He's been pretty impressive, I don't deny that. And he's been consistent the last two years. But he's also been consistent in turnovers.

Responsible for 61 TDs but also responsible for 50 turnovers. It's not just the first couple of years in Eli's career where he's had a problem with turnovers.

I agree Eli was a big proponent to getting you to the playoffs, but just because the Giants have a lot of come from behind wins this year, doesn't mean that they would have lost those games without Eli-- Yes he was big in the comebacks but the team you have is not a bottom 5 team by any means, even with all the injuries.

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 05:35 PM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?
All his early games were @ home. So he still was green and inexperienced. Also do not forget that Giants stadium was/is one of the worst stadiums to play in based on the wind, and those playoff games are now coming at the worst times of the year based on weather/winds.

How many QBs win any type of playoff games early in their career (home or away), without being helped by the team to get them throughout it? And again, not many have such hostile conditions @ times.

Just look at the last playoff game. If he have had played bad, then you might of had a point.

2008?

The bolded part goes both ways.
Lost by a FG? After we lost our top tier wr cause he was dumb enough to shoot himself? I did not think it would have been a factor, but apparently it was. As Eli while improving each year, wasn't at the point, and it didn't help with who he had left. Really only reliable one at that time was Toomer.

Also I am about to reply to your Eli isn't Elite post. Couldn't earlier as I wasn't going to have time to... So if you want, feel free to wait for that one, so we can merge the talk lol.

I'm just saying you said it was when he was still "green". Yet he had already helped win a superbowl.

Yes plax wasn't there, which enabled the eagles to stack the box and stop the run game and dared Eli to beat him with his arm-- he couldn't.

So if he was still green then, why should he deserve much credit for 2007?

edit: sure thing bud. I'll wait... got time to kill
[B]

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 05:40 PM
All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>




To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
</p>


So after he wins his 2nd Ring in 4 years on feb 5th. Has the most wins 6 away from home in playoff history, has the record for most 4th quarter Tds.... You dont think all of your fanbase wouldnt kill to have Eli over Romo... Come on now answer it honestly... </p>

I'd kill to have the success Eli has had. I don't necessarily think that if you swap the two either would have better or equal success.

Eli has, in his best stretches, had a strong running game and defense to rely upon. Romo has never had that. So I wouldn't expect Eli to come to Dallas and play better football than he is now.

The Cowboys have many problems that will take 2 years or more to fix, the root of which have been around since 2006 when Romo took over (porous secondary, poor o line, awful safeties, poor d'line as a unit).

I, do, however think he's a better QB because of things that cannot be measured. In fact I even took the other side of the Eli vs Romo debate over on cowboyszone... it wasn't a popular move

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 05:59 PM
All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>

To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
Well what is elite? Here are a few things most will agree on.

1) Clutch - When the lights are on you, can you make a play and win. Was proven in the biggest spot SB42 , not once but twice. Also proven this season. Main reason EA wanted Eli.

2) Can he make the players around him better? This was also another reason EA wanted Eli. Well that is what they said of Brady and Peyton. Eli has the last two years, even 3. Do not forget Victor, Balard, Hynoski, were all UFA when we picked them up, or we had the worst run game, or that we lost pro bowler Smith and Boss, while no one said we would win. Same as when we lost plax and even shockey back in the day.

3) Records/stats - He holds a few. Not top 3 or 5, but #1. And while his stats are a bit under a few of the guys you mentioned. This team was generally a running team, or close to 50/50, till really this year. It does not help your stats if you play a more balanced game.

Also he does not pad his stats like Brady, and Brees. Two years ago if I am correct he did not play for over 4 quarters, because of how we were winning. And the tendency to take the foot off the gas. Which at times cost us. Like it did last year with philly even when we finished with a 10-6 record.

Also lets not forget this about Elis stats. Eli throws a lot of deep balls, not the easiest thing to do, since it relies on many things to work out, or go right. Do you know Eli probably lost 5 tds because of wrs, and about 2-3 were big time throws? But thats not in the stat sheet. How much better would of his numbers been then?

You do realize all players including Elite players have bad games, and bad players have good games. How did Peyton fair vs the Pats in the playoffs for years? How did Brady do in the SB 42 when he did not have all day to throw? How did Rodgers fair with our defense this year? Then how did Eli fair vs SF this past week?

Then how did Flynn do for GB in the last game of the season. Ro Rex vs us? (do you want rex? at least he is not better then romo), Or how did that Kolb trade look after he only had a couple good games?

Trust me there are many examples, and trying to nit pick is silly. You and the Eagles did not make it to the playoffs because both of your respective QBS gave games away when it counted the most. Eli won most of them, and if not for a fluke play or two, would have had two more in the season vs SF and Seattle. But hey it happens, can't win them all right.

Now for your TD/INT ratio, he has had maybe 10 for estimation that were on him, but when players are running the wrong routes (like this year if you have not seen) then it makes the qb look bad and increases the INTS. Not sure how that is on the QB. Also if you want to look at Elis numbers, please let me know how all his other numbers looked from rookie season till today? They all went in general the direction you want. Except the fluke he had last year with ints (proven that 10 were on the receivers)

Also do not forget the defenses Eli has faced in the NFC east most of his career. Top Tier.

The Jets game, was not a great one I agree, but as mentioned before good games and bad games for all. Also that 99 yard happened before the half, so to tell me we won a game before the end of half time (that was ugly, and not a blow out) is very foolish/silly. He had an off game, because of the wrs, line, and facing a decent defense. But he was off too early on if i recall. Happens... And even, if you wanted to use that 99 harder against us as luck. It was far from luck, as he got the ball were it needed to be, and the wr made a play (they get paid for that) I have never seen people complain about how stafford throws the ball up to C.Johnson who is covered by 2-3 players and comes down with a TD nearly every time, or breaks a big time TD run. Apparently thats ok for everyone to have except Eli. Eli never had these type of players before. It is nice to not to have wrs catch a ball and then fall on a ground for 0 YAC.

While Rodgers had a great year. He deserves the Accolades, the guy needs to do it for awhile. It is also nice when during the entire season he was only trailing for 3 minutes. Yet vs the Giants in the playoffs he was trailing for 6+ minutes, and you saw what happened.

Another x-factor that most do not talk about. Toughness. We have seen now, how Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers handles pressure typically. They get mad, and make a mistake.

Eli vs a top tier defense, still was the ray of light for the team. And you do realize he would of had a better game if it was not windy/rainy (which people would knock him, saying he can't play in bad weather).

Honestly I do not have these type of debates anymore, because generally it is not worth it, as fans will only see what they want. It is up to them to have a change in views.

Not sure if you recall in my older posts (as i come and go in this section) I stated a few things.

1) McNabb will never win, he chokes (how many chances did he get, even with top tier defenses.

2) conVICK - Is a playmaker and not a QB, and apparently now he is a choker as well.

3) Romo - To me he was a mini-mcnabb. He can put up stats (nice to be in a dome) but when its all said and done, he chokes just like McNabb use to.

I truly, and honestly hope those guys stick around. And I was the first guy to say I was happy Vick signed with the Eagles. As I knew they wasted there money on nothing special, and it would hurt them for years to come (love it). At least they made some of it back with the Kolb trade lol.

buffyblue
01-26-2012, 06:37 PM
It is amazing that folks still have this debate. I always laugh at it because Eli Manning is taking us to another SuperBowl whether folks wat to give him credit for it or not.

Folks are trying to say Mike Vick is better and that Troy Aikman was better. No way. Eli Manning is in a class that dog killa could never approach. It is pure stupidity that anyone would even say that Mike Vick is better than Eli Manning. In regard to Troy Aikman and how everyone explains the stat difference as different times? Whatever. The game has not changed much no matter how many times folks want to try and argue that. Eli Manning is a better QB than Troy Aikman ever was. It is not even close.

Most QBs would have collapsed under the beating that Eli Manning took against San Francsco 49ers in NFC Championship game. Heck Mike Vick would nbot have made it out of the and would still be crying about it at press conferences. Tom Brady as great as he is would not have been able to perform like Eli Manning did in NFC Championship game. With the weather nad field conditions what they were and against that rabid San Francisco 49ers defense you canít play better at QB than Eli Manning did that day. Itís not just how he played but it is also how unfazed he was by the beating he took. That is the thing that Eli Manning does better than every QB in NFL.

We are going to always hear about how Eli Manning is not ELIte. We are always going to hear the critics putting him down and never acknowledging how great he is. That will never change because there are tons of jealous folks out there that will never be honest.

We will just have to be content watching Eli Manning play QB almost every week at an ELIte level. We will just have to be content as he continues to lead NY Giants to playoffs and SuperBowl victories and keeps us competittive for years to come.
We will have to be content watching Eli Manning the greatest QB in NY Giants history continue to lead our team on his way to the Hall of Fame.

I have always appreciated Eli Manning and am as ecstatic that he is our QB as I was on the day NY Giants announced he was coming to our team.

I bELIeve.

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 07:33 PM
Well what is elite? First off, you
know Elite when you see it. If it has to be debated, than it's no
debate at all. That's probably the simplest way I can explain it, but
I'll go ahead and reply to the rest of your response.


Here are a few things most will agree on.
1) Clutch - When the lights are on you, can you make a play and win.
Was proven in the biggest spot SB42 , not once but twice. Also proven
this season. Main reason EA wanted Eli.
2) Can he make the players around him better? This was also another
reason EA wanted Eli. Well that is what they said of Brady and Peyton.
Eli has the last two years, even 3. Do not forget Victor, Balard,
Hynoski, were all UFA when we picked them up, or we had the worst run
game, or that we lost pro bowler Smith and Boss, while no one said we
would win. Same as when we lost plax and even shockey back in the day.


Ballard is probably an average tight end, but his
numbers also reflect that, and as I've stated before here (after the
Pats game) he's a clear upgrade over Boss. As Cruz is over Steve Smith.
The Combination of Cruz and Nicks make the NY Giants receiving options
easily the best in the NFCE. Just because guys are undrafted free
agents doesn't mean they can't ball (Romo, Austin). You'd have to be
lying if you didn't say that these guys didn't make up the best
receiving options for Eli-- hell maybe even the entire Giants history.
Go watch Victor Cruz highlights and tell me that Eli's making him
better... I think it's quite the other way around


3) Records/stats - He holds a few. Not top 3 or 5,
but #1. And while his stats are a bit under a few of the guys you
mentioned. This team was generally a running team, or close to 50/50,
till really this year. It does not help your stats if you play a more
balanced game.
Also he does not pad his stats like Brady, and Brees. Two years ago if
I am correct he did not play for over 4 quarters, because of how we
were winning. And the tendency to take the foot off the gas. Which at
times cost us. Like it did last year with philly even when we finished
with a 10-6 record. Also lets not forget this about Elis stats. Eli
throws a lot of deep balls, not the easiest thing to do, since it
relies on many things to work out, or go right. Do you know Eli
probably lost 5 tds because of wrs, and about 2-3 were big time throws?
But thats not in the stat sheet. How much better would of his numbers
been then?


Which records?


You do
realize all players including Elite players have bad games, and bad
players have good games. How did Peyton fair vs the Pats in the
playoffs for years? How did Brady do in the SB 42 when he did not have
all day to throw? How did Rodgers fair with our defense this year? Then
how did Eli fair vs SF this past week?
Then how did Flynn do for GB in the last game of the season. Ro Rex vs
us? (do you want rex? at least he is not better then romo), Or how did
that Kolb trade look after he only had a couple good games?
Trust me there are many examples, and trying to nit pick is
silly.

Yes.
Elite players have bad games. But Eli's inconsistency is illustrated
over the last 8 games of the regular season-- Mediocre game, bad game,
two mediocre games, great game, 2 pretty awful games, one very good
game.


You and the Eagles did not make
it to the playoffs because both of your respective QBS gave games away
when it counted the most. Eli won most of them, and if not for a fluke
play or two, would have had two more in the season vs SF and Seattle.
But hey it happens, can't win them all right.

Contrary
to belief, Romo wasn't a huge factor in the declining Cowboys this
year, nor was Vick really. Yes Romo gave up 1 game for sure and shared
a lot of blame in another... mind you this was after coming off half a
season/one was when the broken rib was still fresh. Romo would have had
one less game winning drive, had it not been for special teams,
possibly two. As for Vick, he was pretty fragile and that's about it.
The defense finally stepped up far too late, or else the Eagles would
have been in the playoffs.



Now
for your TD/INT ratio, he has had maybe 10 for estimation that were on
him, but when players are running the wrong routes (like this year if
you have not seen) then it makes the qb look bad and increases the
INTS. Not sure how that is on the QB. Also if you want to look at Elis
numbers, please let me know how all his other numbers looked from
rookie season till today? They all went in general the direction you
want. Except the fluke he had last year with ints (proven that 10 were
on the receivers) Also do not forget the defenses Eli has faced in the
NFC east most of his career. Top Tier.

Agreed,
that's how you want the trend to go. Of course probably not at such a
gradual pace, but he's gotten there. Still the turnovers remain.

Every
QB has interceptions that are 'not on him'. Hell, I think all of Romo's
last year were pretty much not his fault before he went down with that
injury.

The Cowboys haven't had a top tier defense since the
early 90s, believe me. The Eagles? They've had some good ones, and the
Redskins have their years. Now if he played in the AFCN, then that
would be different.




The Jets
game, was not a great one I agree, but as mentioned before good games
and bad games for all. Also that 99 yard happened before the half, so
to tell me we won a game before the end of half time (that was ugly,
and not a blow out) is very foolish/silly. He had an off game, because
of the wrs, line, and facing a decent defense. But he was off too early
on if i recall. Happens... And even, if you wanted to use that 99
harder against us as luck. It was far from luck, as he got the ball
were it needed to be, and the wr made a play (they get paid for that) I
have never seen people complain about how stafford throws the ball up
to C.Johnson who is covered by 2-3 players and comes down with a TD
nearly every time, or breaks a big time TD run. Apparently thats ok for
everyone to have except Eli. Eli never had these type of players
before. It is nice to not to have wrs catch a ball and then fall on a
ground for 0 YAC. While Rodgers had a great year. He deserves the
Accolades, the guy needs to do it for awhile. It is also nice when
during the entire season he was only trailing for 3 minutes. Yet vs the
Giants in the playoffs he was trailing for 6+ minutes, and you saw what
happened.
Another x-factor that most do not talk about.

I never said it was luck. It was a good move by Cruz and the Jets missed tackles, Eli completed a 9 1/2 yard pass.

Rodgers
has had more good season than Eli already including a monster season
last year (on a team with a worse defense and equally as bad running
game in a tougher division). I think he's done it long enough. The
Packers found a bad day to have an off day. Not saying they would have
won, but you can hardly pin that game on Rodgers, nor imply that he's
not good with adversity. He missed maybe two throws that game, but
overall moved the chains when they needed to be moved... or at least
held up his end of the bargain.


Toughness. We have seen now, how Brady, Peyton, and
Rodgers handles pressure typically. They get mad, and make a mistake.
Eli vs a top tier defense, still was the ray of light for the team. And
you do realize he would of had a better game if it was not windy/rainy
(which people would knock him, saying he can't play in bad weather).
Honestly I do not have these type of debates anymore, because generally
it is not worth it, as fans will only see what they want. It is up to
them to have a change in views.


Perhaps. Or perhaps if the 9ers defense had've held on
to the interceptions thrown he would have virtually had the same game
as the first go 'round. Not into woulda-shoulda-couldas, but the
mistakes were there as well as outstanding first half play. But then
Cruz got tired and suddenly Eli couldn't find anyone for the majority
of the second half.


Not sure if you
recall in my older posts (as i come and go in this section) I stated a
few things.
1) McNabb will never win, he chokes (how many chances did he get, even
with top tier defenses.
2) conVICK - Is a playmaker and not a QB, and apparently now he is a
choker as well.
3) Romo - To me he was a mini-mcnabb. He can put up stats (nice to be
in a dome) but when its all said and done, he chokes just like McNabb
use to.
I truly, and honestly hope those guys stick around. And I was the first
guy to say I was happy Vick signed with the Eagles. As I knew they
wasted there money on nothing special, and it would hurt them for years
to come (love it). At least they made some of it back with the Kolb
trade lol.

I
think this is the biggest reason Giants fans love Eli. He is the anti
Romo, Vick, or McNabb. He shows up when the pressure is on. But
consequently, being the anti Romo/Vick/McNabb means that he doesn't
really show up until the 4th quarter for the most part. He plays better
from behind, but this year had a low 70 rating when leading or tied.
Why one is more admirable than the other just doesn't make sense to me
as long as you're winning.

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 07:46 PM
In regard to Troy Aikman and how everyone explains the stat difference as different times? Whatever. The game has not changed much no matter how many times folks want to try and argue that. Eli Manning is a better QB than Troy Aikman ever was. It is not even close.

Even if you just started watching football this in the last 10 years you'd know that's wrong. This is a much more pass happy league because of the talent at WR and the ticky tack rules enforced on defenses.

Sundown
01-26-2012, 07:56 PM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 07:57 PM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2012, 07:58 PM
All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>

To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
I dont think any other QB in the NFL could of taken that beating against the 49ers kept his cool and not force the ball

Sundown
01-26-2012, 07:59 PM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.


Cool. I saw Romo and was like oh geez!! Didn't feel like reading all the threads hahaha

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 08:02 PM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.


Cool. I saw Romo and was like oh geez!! Didn't feel like reading all the threads hahaha

No you'll get no argument from me. Eli's a better QB than Romo because of things that can't be measured. He's gotten his team to the superbowl this year and has had a pretty good season.

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 08:03 PM
All this yet.. seems like everyday on tv, radio and internet they all feel the need to debate weather Eli is Elite... </p>


What does this guy have to do to get some Props. He will have 2SBs in 4 yrs over what is considered a Dynasty type CLUB</p>

To be fair, I don't think Eli is Elite. I just don't. He makes nice plays and is a pretty damn good QB, but not to the magnitude of the guys that I would call elite (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).

Why you may ask? Despite this being his "best year" he still had an awful TD/TO ratio, accuracy wasn't that great, and there were at least 3 other quarterbacks in the NFC alone that had better years.

And when you look objectively at his performances in the last portion of the season and playoffs, how great were they really? They were enough to get the job done and he's more than a 'bus driver'. But c'mon. Jets game? If not for fancy footwork by Cruz, and a 99 yard td Eli's numbers look like this...

8 of 26 (30%) 126 yards (4.2 ypa) 1 int

That was coming off the redskins game where he was also putrid. Then he had a few good games in between, and then the redskins game happened. Felt like he played incredibly in the first half but in the second, he was not the difference maker he usually is, and fortunately had two interceptions slip through the hands of 9ers defenders.

I'd put him at the top of the next tier though as the number 5 overall QB because he finds ways to win so to speak, and has been to the superbowl twice. He's just too inconsistent for me to say he belongs with the names above him.


Edit: From a media standpoint, I think he would have been crowned elite a long time ago if it weren't for his awful first few years. It's hard to get over first impressions if drastic change doesn't happen (IE: Brees switching NFL teams).
I dont think any other QB in the NFL could of taken that beating against the 49ers kept his cool and not force the ball

Probably right. Although he did force the ball a couple of times. They just didn't result in turnovers.

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 08:46 PM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch & the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.

Ntegrase96
01-26-2012, 10:16 PM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch &amp; the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.

Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

He's very clutch. No one denies that.

And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



Tom Brady: 300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 10:29 PM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch & the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.

Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

He's very clutch. No one denies that.

And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



Tom Brady: 300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.
Let me just bring one thing up about the near ints. Last year Eli did have 25 ints, but 10 of them were tipped. They said that Eli was the least luckiest of all QBS last year, since most of his tips turned into INTS. While Vick and Brady were the luckiest as they turned in to dropped balls. Many did not or do not realize that either.

Here is another quick example of how Elis ints happen. Remember the ball that Lee intercepted with his back to the play and 1 arm in the cast? Or how one int vs the Skins hit the back of Fletchers arm/head for an int? Those have nothing to do with the qb. Also you want to talk about seattle and the skins. Well Seattle we had the chance as mentioned before if cruz didn't slip but worst of all TIP another ball that was picked to the house. And during all that our defense stunk. Sometimes when you are asked to do a lot with a bad defense, bad protection, and run game, they catch you. And they did. Happens to the best of them. Yet when Eli gets hit, he still wins, when most get rattled and falter ala Peyton, Brees and Brady.

I do agree Nicks did it on his own, and while Cruz has some great talent, it was Eli that help bring it out. They all say Eli is there help, teaching them. Plus you need a QB who can get it to them as well. :)

Also many QBs really do hit there stride around 6-8 years. Watch those numbers rise, but again do not forget we were a very run happy offense, and that needs to be taken into account, as well as the place he plays @.

But we can leave this debate alone, as we can agree to disagree. But once Eli hits the HOF, you can ask for my forgiveness lol...

Do not forget I also told you, that you wouldn't win with the Wade, just like Norv, they are not good HC. With Jason, the jury is out, but not a great start with those blown games.

Also you said romo wasn't as bad. He wasn't at the end of the year, but he cost you in the beginning of the year. He just switched sides.

Ntegrase96
01-27-2012, 03:50 AM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch &amp; the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.

Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

He's very clutch. No one denies that.

And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



Tom Brady: 300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.
Let me just bring one thing up about the near ints. Last year Eli did have 25 ints, but 10 of them were tipped. They said that Eli was the least luckiest of all QBS last year, since most of his tips turned into INTS. While Vick and Brady were the luckiest as they turned in to dropped balls. Many did not or do not realize that either.

Here is another quick example of how Elis ints happen. Remember the ball that Lee intercepted with his back to the play and 1 arm in the cast? Or how one int vs the Skins hit the back of Fletchers arm/head for an int? Those have nothing to do with the qb. Also you want to talk about seattle and the skins. Well Seattle we had the chance as mentioned before if cruz didn't slip but worst of all TIP another ball that was picked to the house. And during all that our defense stunk. Sometimes when you are asked to do a lot with a bad defense, bad protection, and run game, they catch you. And they did. Happens to the best of them. Yet when Eli gets hit, he still wins, when most get rattled and falter ala Peyton, Brees and Brady.

I do agree Nicks did it on his own, and while Cruz has some great talent, it was Eli that help bring it out. They all say Eli is there help, teaching them. Plus you need a QB who can get it to them as well. :)

Also many QBs really do hit there stride around 6-8 years. Watch those numbers rise, but again do not forget we were a very run happy offense, and that needs to be taken into account, as well as the place he plays @.

But we can leave this debate alone, as we can agree to disagree. But once Eli hits the HOF, you can ask for my forgiveness lol...

Do not forget I also told you, that you wouldn't win with the Wade, just like Norv, they are not good HC. With Jason, the jury is out, but not a great start with those blown games.

Also you said romo wasn't as bad. He wasn't at the end of the year, but he cost you in the beginning of the year. He just switched sides.

Basically what you're speaking of is football karma, and I DO believe it comes to those who deserve it-- a bit superstitious, but it's the only sane way I can describe a life time of sporting events that influenced the way I think.

Eli definitely maximizes the potential of the receivers he has. No doubt about it. But like I said, they're pretty damn good receivers to begin with.

Yeah, I think we're going to disagree until something drastically changes one of our viewpoints. No big deal-- you're happy with Eli and you guys are winning.

Eli's got a ways before he's HOF status, especially with the stringent criteria they'll surely place on QB inductees from this era. would love to make a bet with you on that, but we won't know about that for a long time. Like maybe I'd get a dog and have to name it Eli, or you'd have to send me 1,000 Ice cream sandwiches... or something like that.

I believe you did say we wouldn't win with Wade. But so did everyone else. Don't take that as a personal shot or anything, it was just common sense. Wade is an awful head coach.

The jury is still out on Garrett, agreed. But so far the only things he doesn't do well come with experience. Everything else he goes about much better than any coach since Jimmy Johnson-- not saying much, but it's a start. And I think he really wants to succeed here because of the chance Jerry and Jimmy took on him as a player.

Now answer the question... do you REALLY think he belongs with those 4 names I've listed above?

miked1958
01-27-2012, 09:02 AM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch &amp; the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded. Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs. Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat. Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other. Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out. Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather. Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB. So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it... Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.

Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

He's very clutch. No one denies that.

And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



Tom Brady: 300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.
</P>


Well with a win on Feb 5th, Eli would pass 3 of the guys on your list SB Ring wise and poss add another SB MVP to his Resume. Now I must admit that the guys you have on the list dont have the brain farts you speak of as often, but they do have them. Also I saw Brees play a stinker vs Rams and Tampa this season. Brady lost to the Bills. Rodgers to KC.. </P>


There was another Thread titled "check out the pick, no exp needed"...</P>


It was a picture of Brees and Rodgers standing side by side at Practice for the Pro Bowl in Hawaii. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words, well that one was worth more. Caption..lol. Hey Arron I heard Eli made this Gig to, Wheres he at??? lol</P>

jjj45
01-27-2012, 09:09 AM
Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, <font size="5">cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle</font>, WSH twice)
lol You obviously didnt watch that game. Terrible example.

DragonSoul
01-27-2012, 04:03 PM
This whole Eli vs Romo debate should be over by now. I don't care about stats, the only thing that matters is if a QB can elevate his game when it gets tuff and **** hits the fan. Eli has done it, Romo hasn't period. You can't get to the Sb w/out some adversity.

Not what we're debating bud. If someone else is, then I want no part of it.
Well that is my point. You ignored the 1st point of clutch & the 2nd point of improving everyone else. So the two biggest points you excluded.

Now on to the records. Well the 1st one is the one you are currently posting in. Next is the 15 TD passes in the 4th quarter. Then 2 Tds in the 4th quarter of a SB which no other qb had done, ro name a few 1sts or bests. Also 1st to beat an 18-0, 15-1 teams in the playoffs.

Another reason why I hate these threads, and usually ignore them, is I hate repeating the numbers, and facts. It is like a wash, rinse, repeat.

Now Boss and Ballard are about the same. You have seen what a QB can do for one vs the other.

Cruz was almost cut before the start of the season. If you think that he stuck around based on talent/skill alone then knock yourself out.

Please do not talk to me about the ALMOST INTS. That is nonsense. Never happened so it is what it is. How about how Cruz slipped vs seattle that would of gotten us a chance at the win, vs a loss? Or the tip from Smith in SF on the game winning drive? It works both ways. But if thats not good enough for you, add that 1-2 ints, he still out played any qb that day, especially considering the defense he faced, as well as the weather.

Try to think of this as well. What was said after we lost Plax and Shockey? He won't get it done, because he doesn't have a big target. Do you recall that one? Yet he did, and got better each year (hence making the players better around him). Then when we lost Smith and Boss, they said he doesn't have the weapons and cannot get it done. Guess what we are going to the SB.

So what is one of the constants? Apparently all the moving pieces but Eli. Got it...

Also for your 07 to 08 reference of me saying he was green. There is a happy medium. Ala he has shown flashes through out his young career (and that was partly why i was high on him) so he played great in 07 and got it done on the biggest stage. Yet in 08, going into his 4th year he was still learning, and on and off.

Hahaha, c'mon man, that was a lot of text to reply to, I tried my best to get it all.

He's very clutch. No one denies that.

And does he make players around him better? To a certain extent, yeah. But he didn't make Hakeem Nicks, nor did he make Victor Cruz who he is. But in that regard he's pretty equal to all the top tier QBs except for maybe his Brother and Brady.

I'll drop the near INTs argument. It's not as apparent to you guys as much as it is for me. I don't mean that as a slight, but it's just true. Eli has been fortunate that a few of his passes in this run since our first meeting weren't picked off that he threw right to the defender, but it might be the same crazy reason why his receivers drop passes every now and then as well. But coming from a fan base where our QB can make 2 mistakes over the course of the game and it costs us dearly... you start recognizing mistakes whether they come back to bite you or not.

Until Eli puts up numbers like his peers, cuts out the brain fart games (like against Seattle, WSH twice), cuts down on turnovers, I just won't call him elite. Just can't do it. I don't see him in the same category as Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. And honestly, do you?



Tom Brady: 300 TDs to only 115ints / 3x Superbowl winner / 2x Superbowl MVP / 2x NFL MVP / 2x OPOY, 7x pro bowler / 3x All Pro (2 1st teams, 1 2nd) / NFL 2000's All Decade Team / Sports Illustrated Man of the Year / 2x Sports News man of the year

Peyton Manning: 399 TDs to 198 ints / 4x NFL MVP / Superbowl MVP / 6x AFC Player of the Year / 11x Pro Bowler / 8x All Pro (5 1st teams, 3 2nds) / Fastest player to 50,000 yds

Drew Brees: 281 TDs to 146 TDs / 4x All Pro / Superbowl MVP / 6x Pro Bowl / NFL OPOY / 2x NFC MVP / 3x NFC OPOY / Comeback player of the year / AP male athlete of the year / Walter Payton Man of the Year Award / All time single season passing yard record / 2x all time single season completion record

Aaron Rodgers: 132 TDs to 38ints / 1 All Pro selection / 2x Pro Bowler / Superbowl MVP / FedEX air player of the year / AP Male Athlete of the Year / Single season record QB rating / 1st player in league history to pass for 4000 yards in each of his first two seasons.



Eli Manning: 185 TDs to 129 ints / Superbowl MVP / 2x pro bowler / Single season most TDs in 4th quarter / Most road playoff wins



What I do see is a guy who is better than most QBs including my own, who is dangerous, but still mistake prone and inconsistent.
Let me just bring one thing up about the near ints. Last year Eli did have 25 ints, but 10 of them were tipped. They said that Eli was the least luckiest of all QBS last year, since most of his tips turned into INTS. While Vick and Brady were the luckiest as they turned in to dropped balls. Many did not or do not realize that either.

Here is another quick example of how Elis ints happen. Remember the ball that Lee intercepted with his back to the play and 1 arm in the cast? Or how one int vs the Skins hit the back of Fletchers arm/head for an int? Those have nothing to do with the qb. Also you want to talk about seattle and the skins. Well Seattle we had the chance as mentioned before if cruz didn't slip but worst of all TIP another ball that was picked to the house. And during all that our defense stunk. Sometimes when you are asked to do a lot with a bad defense, bad protection, and run game, they catch you. And they did. Happens to the best of them. Yet when Eli gets hit, he still wins, when most get rattled and falter ala Peyton, Brees and Brady.

I do agree Nicks did it on his own, and while Cruz has some great talent, it was Eli that help bring it out. They all say Eli is there help, teaching them. Plus you need a QB who can get it to them as well. :)

Also many QBs really do hit there stride around 6-8 years. Watch those numbers rise, but again do not forget we were a very run happy offense, and that needs to be taken into account, as well as the place he plays @.

But we can leave this debate alone, as we can agree to disagree. But once Eli hits the HOF, you can ask for my forgiveness lol...

Do not forget I also told you, that you wouldn't win with the Wade, just like Norv, they are not good HC. With Jason, the jury is out, but not a great start with those blown games.

Also you said romo wasn't as bad. He wasn't at the end of the year, but he cost you in the beginning of the year. He just switched sides.

Basically what you're speaking of is football karma, and I DO believe it comes to those who deserve it-- a bit superstitious, but it's the only sane way I can describe a life time of sporting events that influenced the way I think.

Eli definitely maximizes the potential of the receivers he has. No doubt about it. But like I said, they're pretty damn good receivers to begin with.

Yeah, I think we're going to disagree until something drastically changes one of our viewpoints. No big deal-- you're happy with Eli and you guys are winning.

Eli's got a ways before he's HOF status, especially with the stringent criteria they'll surely place on QB inductees from this era. would love to make a bet with you on that, but we won't know about that for a long time. Like maybe I'd get a dog and have to name it Eli, or you'd have to send me 1,000 Ice cream sandwiches... or something like that.

I believe you did say we wouldn't win with Wade. But so did everyone else. Don't take that as a personal shot or anything, it was just common sense. Wade is an awful head coach.

The jury is still out on Garrett, agreed. But so far the only things he doesn't do well come with experience. Everything else he goes about much better than any coach since Jimmy Johnson-- not saying much, but it's a start. And I think he really wants to succeed here because of the chance Jerry and Jimmy took on him as a player.

Now answer the question... do you REALLY think he belongs with those 4 names I've listed above?
You do not want to bet me, because you may end up like this http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/2460463.aspx But if you want to make some type of bet we can. I have faith, since we drafted Eli. Been paying me back handily since then :)

I do agree Eli needs to do more, but I do not doubt that he will. As I said most Qbs hit there stride around 30, and it started to show last 2 years approximately.

Yea but I said you wouldn't win with Wade while everyone else still believed, including you my friend.

To you question. I do in certain regards. His numbers that you seem to be eyeing a lot are not exactly up to the guys you mentioned, but I hit upon some of the reasons. Also another reason people seem to be forgetting, they have played longer then he has.

Oh and the NFCN division was cake walk for years. This year the Lions never beat a team with a winning record all season, same as the Pats (till they did in the playoffs vs the ravens, with any other Offense besides SF and Ravens they would have lost) so you had the Vikes @ 3-13 and a decimated bears team at 8-8, with a lions team that couldn't beat a team with a winning record.

The main reason I put Eli in there is because he is clutch and has made big plays in big stages 90% of the time at least. He also has played w/whoever the Giants gave him and made it work.

Eli also got us into the playoffs for 4 straight years as a starter. Never had a losing season w/him as a starter, and even last year we should have been in the game if not for the defense and dodge w/a 10-6 Record.

People want too look at record and rightfully so, but they forget the context of some of those games.

Lets review : As a starter in the NFL for 7 years Eli Has gotten us into the -

playoffs 5 out of 7 years (and one of those years we missed the playoffs at 10-6, due to defense and ST as mentioned above)

Won a SB and a SB MVP vs an 18-0 team that was the BEST offense EVER in NFL HISTORY, and faced a TOP 5 DEFENSE as well. Unlike what Brady faced most years or even Ben when he beat the Cards.

And as this thread states he is the best Playoff Road QB of all time with about 6-9 years left.

Oh and the 15 TDS in the 4quarter ahead of only Peyton and Unitas.

Not sure what else is needed. A SB every year or every other? You do know Brady nor Peyton have gotten a SB since Eli has correct?

DragonSoul
01-30-2012, 09:11 PM
For the new trolls, and haters that just got to the forums.

THE_New_York_Giants
01-30-2012, 09:17 PM
I'll take the QB who goes 9-7 each year for 15 years and wins 8 Super bowls, throwing 25 TD's and 16 INT's each year with a 59% completion rate over the QB who goes 14-2 every year and wins 1. Elite means championships. No ring, no great.

GmenFan1980
01-30-2012, 09:19 PM
For the new trolls, and haters that just got to the forums.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgaarRMf-LrLiP0vszFcZFP0n-sDJcUE1NJXO_qOW4pbzh8P160w

:D

miked1958
01-30-2012, 10:31 PM
For the new trolls, and haters that just got to the forums.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgaarRMf-LrLiP0vszFcZFP0n-sDJcUE1NJXO_qOW4pbzh8P160w

:D
Haters gonna hate

Ntegrase96
01-31-2012, 02:04 AM
You do not want to bet me, because you may end up like this http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/2460463.aspx But if you want to make some type of bet we can. I have faith, since we drafted Eli. Been paying me back handily since then :)

I do agree Eli needs to do more, but I do not doubt that he will. As I said most Qbs hit there stride around 30, and it started to show last 2 years approximately.

Yea but I said you wouldn't win with Wade while everyone else still believed, including you my friend.

To you question. I do in certain regards. His numbers that you seem to be eyeing a lot are not exactly up to the guys you mentioned, but I hit upon some of the reasons. Also another reason people seem to be forgetting, they have played longer then he has.

Oh and the NFCN division was cake walk for years. This year the Lions never beat a team with a winning record all season, same as the Pats (till they did in the playoffs vs the ravens, with any other Offense besides SF and Ravens they would have lost) so you had the Vikes @ 3-13 and a decimated bears team at 8-8, with a lions team that couldn't beat a team with a winning record.

The main reason I put Eli in there is because he is clutch and has made big plays in big stages 90% of the time at least. He also has played w/whoever the Giants gave him and made it work.

Eli also got us into the playoffs for 4 straight years as a starter. Never had a losing season w/him as a starter, ad even last year we should have been in the game if not for the defense and dodge w/a 10-6 Record.

People want too look at record and rightfully so, but they forget the context of some of those games.

Lets review : As a starter in the NFL for 7 years Eli Has gotten us into the -

playoffs 5 out of 7 years (and one of those years we missed the playoffs at 10-6, due to defense and ST as mentioned above)

Won a SB and a SB MVP vs an 18-0 team that was the BEST offense EVER in NFL HISTORY, and faced a TOP 5 DEFENSE as well. Unlike what Brady faced most years or even Ben when he beat the Cards.

And as this thread states he is the best Playoff Road QB of all time with about 6-9 years left.

Oh and the 15 TDS in the 4quarter ahead of only Peyton and Unitas.

Not sure what else is needed. A SB every year or every other? You do know Brady nor Peyton have gotten a SB since Eli has correct?

I'd b et ya, I'm just not sure both of us would be on this board at the time we'd have the outcome of Eli in the hall of fame.

At any rate. Yes, you were right about Wade not panning out. I had my reasons but those didn't pan out at well. I will say he was a pretty good defensive coach and game manager, but he lacked in preparation. He's actually kind of the opposite of Garrett who accels in preparation, but sucks at game management and coordinating his repsective position... haha. Dammit Jerry!

But seriously, you're not going to change my mind about Eli.

I've seen the same accolades you've just written with Roetlissberger... seriously consider how close their stats are:

Eli Manning: 27,579 yds, 58.4% completion, 7.0 YPA, 185 TDs to 129ints (+31 fumbles lost)
Rapesburgers: 26,579 yds, 63.1% completion, 8.0 YPA, 165 TDs to 100ints (+26 fumbles lost)

Eli: 19 fourth quarter comebacks, 23 game winning drives
Rapesburgers: 20 fourth Q comebacks, 26 game winning drives

Nearly identical stats, wouldn't you agree? Now... do you consider Roethlisberger an Elite Quarterback? Because, I sure as hell don't.

Even if Eli's TEAM wins this weekend, he'll just be tying Big Ben. Do you honestly think that Big Ben deserves the title elite? Because the stats you have used to justify Eli's elite status are less than that of big ben's.

I'll give credit to Eli for being a very good QB in the playoffs, but it's going to take more than that for me, personally, to consider him elite.

Winning can't justify every aspect of a quarterbacks greatness since the fact remains that overall, football is still very much a team game. In the reach of the last decade, two very average QBs (Dilfer, Brad Johnson) have won superbowls behind the efforts of a very strong defense, while absolutely, positively, NO elite quarterback has won without a good defense. Now, what do the 2007 and 2011 Giants playoff runs have in common?

Yes, Eli deserves credit. He has been good in the playoffs. No doubt, and that deserves credit. But he has been average in every regular season season he's played. Does that not balance out? Do we just forget about the regular season? If so, how much credit does Eli really deserve in the playoffs since defense is the biggest factor in the playoffs?

Again. Kudos to Eli. Kudos to Jerry Reese. And even more Kudos to the defense for stepping up in the playoffs (also there's a health factor. You guys are unlucky in that department).

But Eli is not elite.

DragonSoul
01-31-2012, 03:22 AM
You do not want to bet me, because you may end up like this http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/2460463.aspx But if you want to make some type of bet we can. I have faith, since we drafted Eli. Been paying me back handily since then :)

I do agree Eli needs to do more, but I do not doubt that he will. As I said most Qbs hit there stride around 30, and it started to show last 2 years approximately.

Yea but I said you wouldn't win with Wade while everyone else still believed, including you my friend.

To you question. I do in certain regards. His numbers that you seem to be eyeing a lot are not exactly up to the guys you mentioned, but I hit upon some of the reasons. Also another reason people seem to be forgetting, they have played longer then he has.

Oh and the NFCN division was cake walk for years. This year the Lions never beat a team with a winning record all season, same as the Pats (till they did in the playoffs vs the ravens, with any other Offense besides SF and Ravens they would have lost) so you had the Vikes @ 3-13 and a decimated bears team at 8-8, with a lions team that couldn't beat a team with a winning record.

The main reason I put Eli in there is because he is clutch and has made big plays in big stages 90% of the time at least. He also has played w/whoever the Giants gave him and made it work.

Eli also got us into the playoffs for 4 straight years as a starter. Never had a losing season w/him as a starter, ad even last year we should have been in the game if not for the defense and dodge w/a 10-6 Record.

People want too look at record and rightfully so, but they forget the context of some of those games.

Lets review : As a starter in the NFL for 7 years Eli Has gotten us into the -

playoffs 5 out of 7 years (and one of those years we missed the playoffs at 10-6, due to defense and ST as mentioned above)

Won a SB and a SB MVP vs an 18-0 team that was the BEST offense EVER in NFL HISTORY, and faced a TOP 5 DEFENSE as well. Unlike what Brady faced most years or even Ben when he beat the Cards.

And as this thread states he is the best Playoff Road QB of all time with about 6-9 years left.

Oh and the 15 TDS in the 4quarter ahead of only Peyton and Unitas.

Not sure what else is needed. A SB every year or every other? You do know Brady nor Peyton have gotten a SB since Eli has correct?

I'd b et ya, I'm just not sure both of us would be on this board at the time we'd have the outcome of Eli in the hall of fame.

At any rate. Yes, you were right about Wade not panning out. I had my reasons but those didn't pan out at well. I will say he was a pretty good defensive coach and game manager, but he lacked in preparation. He's actually kind of the opposite of Garrett who accels in preparation, but sucks at game management and coordinating his repsective position... haha. Dammit Jerry!

But seriously, you're not going to change my mind about Eli.

I've seen the same accolades you've just written with Roetlissberger... seriously consider how close their stats are:

Eli Manning: 27,579 yds, 58.4% completion, 7.0 YPA, 185 TDs to 129ints (+31 fumbles lost)
Rapesburgers: 26,579 yds, 63.1% completion, 8.0 YPA, 165 TDs to 100ints (+26 fumbles lost)

Eli: 19 fourth quarter comebacks, 23 game winning drives
Rapesburgers: 20 fourth Q comebacks, 26 game winning drives

Nearly identical stats, wouldn't you agree? Now... do you consider Roethlisberger an Elite Quarterback? Because, I sure as hell don't.

Even if Eli's TEAM wins this weekend, he'll just be tying Big Ben. Do you honestly think that Big Ben deserves the title elite? Because the stats you have used to justify Eli's elite status are less than that of big ben's.

I'll give credit to Eli for being a very good QB in the playoffs, but it's going to take more than that for me, personally, to consider him elite.

Winning can't justify every aspect of a quarterbacks greatness since the fact remains that overall, football is still very much a team game. In the reach of the last decade, two very average QBs (Dilfer, Brad Johnson) have won superbowls behind the efforts of a very strong defense, while absolutely, positively, NO elite quarterback has won without a good defense. Now, what do the 2007 and 2011 Giants playoff runs have in common?

Yes, Eli deserves credit. He has been good in the playoffs. No doubt, and that deserves credit. But he has been average in every regular season season he's played. Does that not balance out? Do we just forget about the regular season? If so, how much credit does Eli really deserve in the playoffs since defense is the biggest factor in the playoffs?

Again. Kudos to Eli. Kudos to Jerry Reese. And even more Kudos to the defense for stepping up in the playoffs (also there's a health factor. You guys are unlucky in that department).

But Eli is not elite.
A few things of note. Since you may have missed it.

1) No I do not think Ben is elite.

2) Ben Played in his 2nd game, and started in his 3rd game. Eli started late in the season, and when he did 4 out of his 5 starting defenses he faced were top 5. It was the toughest start for a rookie qb ever in NFL history. So the numbers are skewed a bit here. I think you would agree.

3) Ben had a crappy division, vs the division the East has had for years.

4) You do realize the team Ben was playing behind? Top defense, top offensive line, top run game, and top tier wrs in Ward and Plax at the time!?

Please tell me those have nothing to do with him.

5) His SB numbers. Have you looked at them? If not please do. While the one to date Eli was in, is history making as mentioned prior, and done vs a top 5 defense in the Pats that was also the best offense in NFL History, and 18-0.

6) It be interesting too see who those come backs came against, and what the situation was when it happened. Unfortunately I do not have the time, nor the will to doit. Maybe there is a way to find out.

7) those two QBS (they are not even in the same league as Eli or Ben, cannot believe you are using them, maybe you should have tried Aikman for that one) as you say won with great defenses. Giants 07 and 11 were not top tier defenses. And Eli is headed to his 2nd SB correct? Trent was sent away after his win, while Eli was paid the most any QB had to date after his win. And what happened to Brad?

8) Eventually you will come around like all others. I called it a long time ago, and right now he is hitting his prime. His biggest issue, was he tried to make a play when he shouldn't have. Now he has learned that its ok to take a sack or throw the ball away.

Again look at his numbers every year. They have gotten steadily better each year. And if he Plateaus to the numbers has had this year and last, he will be ahead of most of the great QBS and that won't even add to the possibility of more playoff appearances and possibly SB(s). Yet if he continues to improve even more so then what?

8) One thing Wade was, was a good coordinator, same for Turner and a few others. We will see about Garrett.

miked1958
01-31-2012, 06:19 AM
Yea at least in his first SB big Benn was a liability. They despite him, not because of him. His numbers were putrid. They won with defense. Look em up and post em here if u don't believe me

Ntegrase96
01-31-2012, 12:27 PM
A few things of note. Since you may have missed it.

1) No I do not think Ben is elite.

2) Ben Played in his 2nd game, and started in his 3rd game. Eli started late in the season, and when he did 4 out of his 5 starting defenses he faced were top 5. It was the toughest start for a rookie qb ever in NFL history. So the numbers are skewed a bit here. I think you would agree.

3) Ben had a crappy division, vs the division the East has had for years.

4) You do realize the team Ben was playing behind? Top defense, top offensive line, top run game, and top tier wrs in Ward and Plax at the time!?

Please tell me those have nothing to do with him.

5) His SB numbers. Have you looked at them? If not please do. While the one to date Eli was in, is history making as mentioned prior, and done vs a top 5 defense in the Pats that was also the best offense in NFL History, and 18-0.

6) It be interesting too see who those come backs came against, and what the situation was when it happened. Unfortunately I do not have the time, nor the will to doit. Maybe there is a way to find out.

7) those two QBS (they are not even in the same league as Eli or Ben, cannot believe you are using them, maybe you should have tried Aikman for that one) as you say won with great defenses. Giants 07 and 11 were not top tier defenses. And Eli is headed to his 2nd SB correct? Trent was sent away after his win, while Eli was paid the most any QB had to date after his win. And what happened to Brad?

8) Eventually you will come around like all others. I called it a long time ago, and right now he is hitting his prime. His biggest issue, was he tried to make a play when he shouldn't have. Now he has learned that its ok to take a sack or throw the ball away.

Again look at his numbers every year. They have gotten steadily better each year. And if he Plateaus to the numbers has had this year and last, he will be ahead of most of the great QBS and that won't even add to the possibility of more playoff appearances and possibly SB(s). Yet if he continues to improve even more so then what?

8) One thing Wade was, was a good coordinator, same for Turner and a few others. We will see about Garrett.

1. Well we agree on that for sure. Big Ben is not an elite QB.

2. Eli has started in 6 more games than Ben. Says something about Eli's durability and toughness. And I'd agree Eli's overall numbers don't reflect his performance today, although some things have remained pretty constant.

3. The NFCN is not a crappy division. The Bengals are inconsistent but there have been 4 years since 2004 that the NFCN produced 3 .500 or better teams. And considering that the Bengals typically play good defense (along with the Ravens) it's nothing to sneeze at. Also, all are cold weather teams that play outdoors.

4. Yes I realize the teams that Ben has had around him, but how are those teams any different than the teams the Giants have fielded during the playoffs? The 2007 Giants defense, when finally coming together in the playoffs, was just as good, if not better than, all the Steelers' defenses.

- Plaxico Burress was only there for Ben Roethlissberger's 1st year in which he missed the majority of the final stretch of the regular season (Ben and the Steelers won ALL those games without him).

-Eli had Plaxico Burress, in his prime, for 3 years.

-Eli also had: Amani Toomer 5 years, Jeremy Shockey 4 years, Steve Smith 3 1/2 years, and now Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz. He's had plenty of help in the receiving department.

-By comparison, Ben has had Burress 1 year, Ward his entire career, Randle El for 2 years, and now Mike Wallace. I'd say it's pretty even.

-And as far as running games. I'd say Tiki and then Bradshaw/Ward and Jacobs combo is comparable to Willie Parker/Bettis in style.

5. I'll give you that. Big Ben has one superbowl where his team, no question carried him. His overall numbers were atrocious and threw two ints in the redzone if IIRC. But he also has a superbowl win where his defense failed him and he had to make a comeback equal to that of Eli's in XL2. All in all, Roethlissberger has been to 3 superbowls.


6. 4th quarter comebacks of note:
--Baltimore x6 (once in the playoffs)
--2004 NYJ (10-6) x2 (once in the playoffs)
--2004 NYG head to head against Eli. Rook vs Rook.
--2006 NO (10-6)
--Superbowl against the Cardinals
--2009 Packers

7. No those two QBs don't compare to Eli. That's not what I was getting at. I was trying to illustrate that fan's emphasis on the QBs importance is a bit overboard. Yes you need strong QB play, but defense still rules. Both Eli and Ben have benefitted from strong defensive play in their superbowl runs.

8. Maybe so. I'm not immune to changing my mind. If Eli proves that he's elite there will be no question about it and nobody will have this debate.

9. The only thing I'm optimistic about with Garrett is he's not afraid to admit when he needs help and delegate, unlike Wade who ripped the DC job away from his protege. Garrett's handing over a large portion of his OC duties to Callahan this next season.

DragonSoul
01-31-2012, 04:48 PM
A few things of note. Since you may have missed it.

1) No I do not think Ben is elite.

2) Ben Played in his 2nd game, and started in his 3rd game. Eli started late in the season, and when he did 4 out of his 5 starting defenses he faced were top 5. It was the toughest start for a rookie qb ever in NFL history. So the numbers are skewed a bit here. I think you would agree.

3) Ben had a crappy division, vs the division the East has had for years.

4) You do realize the team Ben was playing behind? Top defense, top offensive line, top run game, and top tier wrs in Ward and Plax at the time!?

Please tell me those have nothing to do with him.

5) His SB numbers. Have you looked at them? If not please do. While the one to date Eli was in, is history making as mentioned prior, and done vs a top 5 defense in the Pats that was also the best offense in NFL History, and 18-0.

6) It be interesting too see who those come backs came against, and what the situation was when it happened. Unfortunately I do not have the time, nor the will to doit. Maybe there is a way to find out.

7) those two QBS (they are not even in the same league as Eli or Ben, cannot believe you are using them, maybe you should have tried Aikman for that one) as you say won with great defenses. Giants 07 and 11 were not top tier defenses. And Eli is headed to his 2nd SB correct? Trent was sent away after his win, while Eli was paid the most any QB had to date after his win. And what happened to Brad?

8) Eventually you will come around like all others. I called it a long time ago, and right now he is hitting his prime. His biggest issue, was he tried to make a play when he shouldn't have. Now he has learned that its ok to take a sack or throw the ball away.

Again look at his numbers every year. They have gotten steadily better each year. And if he Plateaus to the numbers has had this year and last, he will be ahead of most of the great QBS and that won't even add to the possibility of more playoff appearances and possibly SB(s). Yet if he continues to improve even more so then what?

8) One thing Wade was, was a good coordinator, same for Turner and a few others. We will see about Garrett.

1. Well we agree on that for sure. Big Ben is not an elite QB.

2. Eli has started in 6 more games than Ben. Says something about Eli's durability and toughness. And I'd agree Eli's overall numbers don't reflect his performance today, although some things have remained pretty constant.

3. The NFCN is not a crappy division. The Bengals are inconsistent but there have been 4 years since 2004 that the NFCN produced 3 .500 or better teams. And considering that the Bengals typically play good defense (along with the Ravens) it's nothing to sneeze at. Also, all are cold weather teams that play outdoors.

4. Yes I realize the teams that Ben has had around him, but how are those teams any different than the teams the Giants have fielded during the playoffs?* The 2007 Giants defense, when finally coming together in the playoffs, was just as good, if not better than, all the Steelers' defenses.
**
*** - Plaxico Burress was only there for Ben Roethlissberger's 1st year in which he missed the majority of the final stretch of the regular season (Ben and the Steelers won ALL those games without him).

*** -Eli had Plaxico Burress, in his prime, for 3 years.
**
*** -Eli also had: Amani Toomer 5 years, Jeremy Shockey 4 years, Steve Smith 3 1/2 years, and* now Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz. He's had plenty of help in the receiving department.

*** -By comparison, Ben has had Burress 1 year, Ward his entire career, Randle El for 2 years, and now Mike Wallace. I'd say it's pretty even.

** -And as far as running games. I'd say Tiki and then Bradshaw/Ward and Jacobs combo is comparable to Willie Parker/Bettis in style.

5. I'll give you that. Big Ben has one superbowl where his team, no question carried him. His overall numbers were atrocious and threw two ints in the redzone if IIRC. But he also has a superbowl win where his defense failed him and he had to make a comeback equal to that of Eli's in XL2. All in all, Roethlissberger has been to 3 superbowls.


6. 4th quarter comebacks of note:
--Baltimore x6 (once in the playoffs)
--2004 NYJ (10-6) x2 (once in the playoffs)
--2004 NYG head to head against Eli. Rook vs Rook.
--2006 NO (10-6)
--Superbowl against the Cardinals
--2009 Packers

7. No those two QBs don't compare to Eli. That's not what I was getting at. I was trying to illustrate that fan's emphasis on the QBs importance is a bit overboard. Yes you need strong QB play, but defense still rules. Both Eli and Ben have benefitted from strong defensive play in their superbowl runs.

8. Maybe so. I'm not immune to changing my mind. If Eli proves that he's elite there will be no question about it and nobody will have this debate.

9. The only thing I'm optimistic about with Garrett is he's not afraid to admit when he needs help and delegate, unlike Wade who ripped the DC job away from his protege. Garrett's handing over a large portion of his OC duties to Callahan this next season.



1) Can I punch you in the nose? J/k I actually like you, you are one of the few fans from other teams that are fairly fair minded. A fan is a fan so obvious there will be disagreements, but in general fairl;y level headed.

2) Can I punch you in the nose? Oh wait that was number 1. Sorry not much to retort on #1 and #2 so figured i would ask lol :p

3) I am sorry but you are over estimating the North. The only real steady team were the Steelers. Ravens in general always had defense, except for a year or two in recent memory, but always struggled on O. Bengals made it to the playoffs how many times? They had offense but no defense. And then you have the browns? I know we have the skins, but the browns are still a bit worse.

Even this year the ravens offense was ok, but their defense stepped up. If they had a to tier QB they would have beaten the pats.

I think you are over playing the north. Just a bit. If you ask most fans, what division has been the toughest in the last 10 years. I believe everyone or a good majority would go with the NFCE. Be honest. A few good years here or their, doesn't make them a great division for 7+ years.

4) Sorry but you are incorrect. You are talking about top team in overall rating if not top 3. The giants had none of that, except when the defense as you said came on during the playoffs. Till then they were some what up and down, and you are talking about 1 year at the right time. Pitt was for years and most times. This year Pitt defense struggled most of the season and came on towards the latter half of the year.

Did you watch our defense before the 1st Dallas game? Or even last year when the defense gave the game away to Philly? Had nothing to do with offense there.

Mike wallace is now considered a top tier wr. Toomer was starting on his down slide (speed wise) maybe a year after Plax got there.

And have you seen what happened when we started 10-1 after plax shot himself? Many have said it was tough for Eli to be the leader based on all those me guys. Look at sanchez and thats all you need to see. Most of Elis talent except Toomer had to knock him or show him up. Yet when they screwed up Eli never did.

Again - Cruz was someone who almost got cut twice. Skill he has, but Eli helped in the development. Nicks - Not much can be said there. Ballard - No one till he joined us as an UFA, everyone considered him a blocking TE, and if not for his injuries look at where he would have went. Even Boss as well, no one knew anything about him. Look at even Pascoe who got a TD vs the 49ers and has made some plays this year. Even Smith, it was a combo of both. Did you see how Smith did with the eagles? (And I am talking when he got on the field) Eli regularly hits 6-8 games in a game. Not the 2-4 guys most QBS favor. Or how about Hedge****, or Hynoski?

Can you see a trend? Of how the majority of guys especially in the last 3-4 years came out of no where? Are you tell me they all were stars that even went Undrafted? Or maybe Eli made them better? (not all of course, but in those cases helped them up their game, and bring it out sooner)
6) I do not know the situations on most of those games. But I do recall Pitt. Eli played great, but our defense sucked, and guess what we lost, while Eli played vs a good defense and he lost. So does that not come into context?

Vs the Cards, he was facing a very bad defense. I would hope will all the weapons he has had he could win, and mind you, he barely did. There was also a flag not called on Santonio after the TD that was not given to the Cards. Which could have given the cards a chance to come back.

You are forgetting those match ups and the context of when, who, they were against.

7) When you have a defense it helps no doubt, but thats generally you still need a top tier qb. The reason Trent won was because you could argue that ravens team was prob top 5 defenses of all time if not top 10. And they made Collins scared. What an embarrassment. Then TB played Gannon. He had what one or two good years at best? Vs another Very good defense.

8) You will. You need to just listen to me more. Remember Eli = Prime, and his numbers have risen every year. Look it up.

9) Well JG will get another year. But he cannot make the bone headed calls or none calls he did this past year. That was a free pass, and rightfully so.

Here is an excerpt of an article from the NFCE Blog...

He does, and part of the reason is the weekly Friday meetings he holds in which the receivers sit and watch and listen as Manning breaks down film. Manning has been critical to the rapid development of his young receivers, in particular the rapid emergence of Cruz, who finished third in the league in receiving yards this year.

"I've said this a lot of times since Eli has been with us, one of the most attractive things that we like about him was making players around him better, since his days at Ole Miss," Giants GM Jerry Reese said. "That's definitely the case here with Victor Cruz. Eli coaches him up about his routes, the head fakes and those kinds of things. Victor has worked hard to put himself in this position, his position coach helped him and the quarterback has also helped him. He has exceeded all of our expectations, without a doubt."

If you are interested feel free to read
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/35821/how-eli-manning-picks-his-targets

DragonSoul
02-06-2012, 05:25 AM
Still not Elite Ntegrase96? [:p]

miked1958
02-06-2012, 07:42 AM
Still not Elite Ntegrase96? [:p]
Ntegrase98 and everyone else in the Country will have to agree about Eli what we all have known for a long time

JPP
02-06-2012, 02:31 PM
Still not Elite Ntegrase96? [:p]

He was able to concede Eli's Clutchness and I'm good with that we do have to remember he is a cowboys fan.

GmenFan1980
02-06-2012, 02:36 PM
Can't believe I forgot to mention this but......

In these playoff, were the first and second time two super bowl MVP QB faced off against each other. Eli and the Giants won both :)

jjj45
02-07-2012, 01:47 AM
Still not Elite Ntegrase96? [:p]Didn't somewhere in those endless walls of text that if Eli won another SB, Nte would admit he's elite?

Of course you'd have to be totally blind if you think Eli is not elite now anyway.

DragonSoul
02-08-2012, 09:59 PM
Where is Ntegrase96... I miss him lol

elitosmith
02-08-2012, 10:06 PM
actually it's 7-1.
L @ Phil 2006
W @ TB 2007
W @ Dal 2007
W @ GB 2007
W @ Glendale 2008
W @ GB 2011
W @ SF 2011
W @ Indy 2012

miked1958
02-09-2012, 03:42 AM
actually it's 7-1.
L @ Phil 2006
W @ TB 2007
W @ Dal 2007
W @ GB 2007
W @ Glendale 2008
W @ GB 2011
W @ SF 2011
W @ Indy 2012
Actually OP was correct. Eli was 6-1 at the time the Post was made. He just didn't update his list after the SB win

miked1958
02-09-2012, 03:43 AM
Still not Elite Ntegrase96? [:p]
Need to update the list from the OP in the thread to reflect Eli now being 7-1

miked1958
02-09-2012, 03:47 AM
Take a moment to really soak it in!!! And if that doesn't give you chills then imagine what another 6-9 years (knock on wood) may bring.

====================================
Eli Maning ----------- 6-1
Tom Brady ----------- 6-3
Terry Bradshaw ---- 6-3
Rodger Staubach -- 6-3
Joe Montana -------- 6-5
So actually not only is Eli 7-1 on this list now. He has also dropped Tom Brady from 2nd on the list to 4th place at 6-4. Now behind both Bradshaw and staubach who are both 6-3

miked1958
02-09-2012, 03:51 AM
Also something to note on Brady. He has fallen into a sharp decline in 2nd half of his playoff and SB runs

In his first 10 post season games he was 10-0 including a 3-0 record in SBs

In next 12 he is 6-6 including an 0-2 record in SBs

Guess which QB and Coach made him 0-2 lol

And Eli which started his playoffs at 0-2 has gone 8-1 since including 2-0 in SBs

DragonSoul
02-09-2012, 04:57 AM
Still not Elite Ntegrase96? [:p]
Need to update the list from the OP in the thread to reflect Eli now being 7-1I did. Thanks for reminding me lol

DragonSoul
09-28-2012, 03:26 AM
So I guess Eli did it again with another set of pieces. Barden, BENNETT. Bennett was nothing in dallas for years. Guess Romo isnt all that he is made out too be. I mean bennett has almost surpassed his numbers in 2011 while in Dallas in just 3 games with Eli....

I mean you had Shockey (great talent, but what happened to his production when he left), Boss (where did he disappear to), Beckum (he even made an appearance in the SB, Ballard (who is he? And Eli sold him enough for the Pats to steal him), Pascoe, and now Bennett who was a bust in Dallas.

Yep Eli is surrounded by talent, and doesnt make anyone better. They all came to him as #1 players in their respective positions.

SweetZombieJesus
09-28-2012, 07:32 AM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?

Actually 1-3 at home (2005 Panthers, 2006 & 2008 Eagles).

Bookended by hated division rivals in Philly, and 2005 was so long ago and IIRC more blame fell on Tiki for that 2005 loss but I remember bad Eli was playing that day too.

Still hard to believe last year's 24-2 win over Atlanta was the first home playoff win since 2000.

SweetZombieJesus
09-28-2012, 07:42 AM
About Eli not being Elite I figure 4000 yards and 30 TD's in the last 2 seasons before this year help prove that consistency has developed in his game since the Superbowl run. And now this year when most QB's took it up a notch Eli didn't just stay back he kicked it up and was just a few yards short of being a handful of QB's to break 5K.

4,933

Throw in the playoffs and it's 6,032 yards.

SlyFoxx
09-28-2012, 08:57 AM
First off, why a Eli circle jerk thread in the Smack Talk section?

Second, what does Bennett's lack of production in Dallas have to do with his recent success for Blue? When you have Witten starting for you, that doesn't give Bennett much of a chance. And as I wish former Cowboys good will, I hope Bennett's found a good home.

miked1958
09-28-2012, 09:10 AM
Actually 1-3 at home (2005 Panthers, 2006 & 2008 Eagles).

Bookended by hated division rivals in Philly, and 2005 was so long ago and IIRC more blame fell on Tiki for that 2005 loss but I remember bad Eli was playing that day too.

Still hard to believe last year's 24-2 win over Atlanta was the first home playoff win since 2000.No, it is 1-2 at home.. Carolina 2005 23-0 game and the 08 game vs phiily which was like 23-11. the 06 loss to Philly was in Philly thus the 1 blemish on his 7-1 Away Record. that was a 23-20 loss at Lincoln Financial Field

miked1958
09-28-2012, 09:21 AM
Pretty impressive stat I agree. But that means he's 1-2 at home?

Therefore, does that indicate that in order for Eli to succeed, they Giants have to be the underdog and play from the wildcard spot?

Kudos for the Giants being able to win on the road, but why the struggles at home?Yes but 1 of the Home losses was early in his Career. in 05. a 23-0 loss to Carolina. The other was in 08 to philly 23-11 in the Year that Plax Shot himself. they were 11-1 prior to the accident and 1-5 after. They never recovered. but it wasn just the offense. the Dline had injury and no one to come in off bench like now to fill in and thus no pass rush.. anyway he made up for it with his 24-2 win over Atlanta last season. Pretty dominating.

Another note. Eli started out 0-2 in the playoffs with the 05 and -06 losses (23-0 carolina and 23-20 philly) but has goine 8-1 since. What Romos overall record in the Playoffs if I might ask?

TroyArcher
09-28-2012, 02:17 PM
The loss to the Panthers early in his career was due to a complete depletion of the defense to injuries. They were pulling LB's off the street a week before the game. The loss to Eagles was at home was horrible.

DragonSoul
09-29-2012, 04:33 AM
First off, why a Eli circle jerk thread in the Smack Talk section?

Second, what does Bennett's lack of production in Dallas have to do with his recent success for Blue? When you have Witten starting for you, that doesn't give Bennett much of a chance. And as I wish former Cowboys good will, I hope Bennett's found a good home.

1 - This thread was around for awhile now, and you missed the reason it was posted back then.

2 - Read the thread if you want to know why bennett was mentioned in the thread.

3- What does Witten have to do w/anything? Look at the Pats. Great QB's bring out the best in the players around them. Try a different argument.

4 - Take your circle else where. Thanks

SweetZombieJesus
09-29-2012, 06:57 AM
No, it is 1-2 at home.. Carolina 2005 23-0 game and the 08 game vs phiily which was like 23-11. the 06 loss to Philly was in Philly thus the 1 blemish on his 7-1 Away Record. that was a 23-20 loss at Lincoln Financial Field

Yeah you're right I keep forgetting 06 was in Philly

Drez
09-29-2012, 07:37 AM
3- What does Witten have to do w/anything? Look at the Pats. Great QB's bring out the best in the players around them. Try a different argument.


Different offensive philosophies. Bennett wasn't given much of an opportunity to succeed in Dallas, which is probably why he underachieved while he was there. Sensing there was a bit of a negative feedback loop going on there. I don't think it necessarily had to do with how good of a QB Romo is other than his bromance with Witten.

DragonSoul
09-29-2012, 08:14 PM
Different offensive philosophies. Bennett wasn't given much of an opportunity to succeed in Dallas, which is probably why he underachieved while he was there. Sensing there was a bit of a negative feedback loop going on there. I don't think it necessarily had to do with how good of a QB Romo is other than his bromance with Witten.From what I understood as the years went on he got less and less of the chances/touches. I don't think it was more so the philosophy as it was more so the lack of coaches and possibly the QB. If you recall there been years when the cowboys were said to always be needing a reliable 2nd/3rd WR behind Austin and Witten. That is one of the main reasons they took Dez as to improve their quality at the receiver spot. But they had an apparent option if they actually implemented him as the Giants are currently doing.

There have been many reports saying how Witten is Romos security blanket/go to guy (as a quick option). But with Eli, he had that earlier in his career. Now he generally goes for the guy who is open, and continually hits multiple pass catchers in every game. That's why last year and even this year the top two wrs in Nicks and Cruz are fairly close in numbers, as are the 2nd tier groups. Because he really doesnt play favorites unless the match ups and/or the coverages are favorable to do so. Like how it was this past week with Barden and the panthers. Apparently there they happen to be both the reasons why Barden was getting so many balls thrown his way.