PDA

View Full Version : Mitch Petrus



jhamburg
01-26-2012, 06:12 PM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center:

105.75 YPG rushing
5 sacks allowed by OL

12 games with Baas at center:

83.6 YPG rushing
23 sacks allowed by OL

Postseason (mostly Baas):

117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game)
8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)

Voldamort
01-26-2012, 06:15 PM
Matt mite have to play to keep Wilfork off of ELI

jomo
01-26-2012, 06:15 PM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center: 105.75 YPG rushing 5 sacks allowed by OL 12 games with Baas at center: 83.6 YPG rushing 23 sacks allowed by OL Postseason (mostly Baas): 117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game) 8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)Statistics alone don't work here. We need to know the oponents on the days Petrus was inas well as who was playing oposite them that day. Then you need to do the same for Baas in order to get to the meat of the issue. You aslo need to factor in the playing surface and weather. You may be on to something but right now it's just a bunch of numbers.

jhamburg
01-26-2012, 06:17 PM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center: 105.75 YPG rushing 5 sacks allowed by OL 12 games with Baas at center: 83.6 YPG rushing 23 sacks allowed by OL Postseason (mostly Baas): 117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game) 8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)Statistics alone don't work here. We need to know the oponents on the days Petrus was in*as well as who was playing oposite them that day. Then you need to do the same for Baas in order to get to the meat of the issue. You aslo need to factor in the playing surface and weather. You may be on to something but right now it's just a bunch of numbers.

My personal feeling from watching the game is that Petrus handled defenders much better than Baas. These numbers don't stand on their own but they only reinforce what a lot of us were already seeing.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2012, 06:23 PM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center: 105.75 YPG rushing 5 sacks allowed by OL 12 games with Baas at center: 83.6 YPG rushing 23 sacks allowed by OL Postseason (mostly Baas): 117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game) 8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)Statistics alone don't work here. We need to know the oponents on the days Petrus was in*as well as who was playing oposite them that day. Then you need to do the same for Baas in order to get to the meat of the issue. You aslo need to factor in the playing surface and weather. You may be on to something but right now it's just a bunch of numbers.From what Ive read Baas graded out as the Giants worst Olineman this year and Boothe as its best

jomo
01-26-2012, 06:23 PM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center: 105.75 YPG rushing 5 sacks allowed by OL 12 games with Baas at center: 83.6 YPG rushing 23 sacks allowed by OL Postseason (mostly Baas): 117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game) 8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)Statistics alone don't work here. We need to know the oponents on the days Petrus was inas well as who was playing oposite them that day. Then you need to do the same for Baas in order to get to the meat of the issue. You aslo need to factor in the playing surface and weather. You may be on to something but right now it's just a bunch of numbers. My personal feeling from watching the game is that Petrus handled defenders much better than Baas. These numbers don't stand on their own but they only reinforce what a lot of us were already seeing.I'm good with your opinion standing on its own, justnot crazy aboutusing stats so loosely. There's too much of that here. It's like, if you want to use a whole season's stats, there are about 12 teams that will beat us next Sunday. If you want to use the last 4 games however....................[B] Go Blue!!

Bones911
01-26-2012, 06:30 PM
I agree that the line plays much better with Booth at center and Petrus at Guard. However because of the amount of money your paying Baas. You have to play him.

jomo
01-26-2012, 06:36 PM
I agree that the line plays much better with Booth at center and Petrus at Guard. However because of the amount of money your paying Baas. You have to play him.That one I reject. This is a meritocracy and we are in the business of winning football games. Playing a guy because of his contract is how GM's and Head Coaches lose their jobs. Even though I scratch my head about Baas starting, I don't believe it is because of money.

giantsfan420
01-26-2012, 06:36 PM
with baas, the run game sucks but we've for the most part done well pass protecting.

with petrus playing, the run game does well, but for the most part, the pass game takes a hit.

i dont think we should play petrus just bc baas is sucking. too many times can i remember petrus getting full out pushed right back into eli and the pocket collapsing.

theres a ton of factors that go into it, but i think the best way to go about this is baas just flat out manning up and playing well. this offseason i'd hope petrus gets a ton of coaching and next year will be his year.

baas has stunk for a majority of the season, but dont forget, we did get to the super bowl with him. to change that up now wouldnt make sense. finish out the year doing what we've been doing. i am very confident we're going to win the super bowl. we can figure all this OL stuff the offseason.

i expect there to be some changes along the ol. not just baas either.

jhamburg
01-26-2012, 06:48 PM
I agree that the line plays much better with Booth at center and Petrus at Guard. However because of the amount of money your paying Baas. You have to play him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

jhamburg
01-26-2012, 06:49 PM
with baas, the run game sucks but we've for the most part done well pass protecting.

with petrus playing, the run game does well, but for the most part, the pass game takes a hit.

i dont think we should play petrus just bc baas is sucking. too many times can i remember petrus getting full out pushed right back into eli and the pocket collapsing.


When and by who? Everyone says Petrus is bad in pass protection but I really don't remember it happening. Especially not on the scale of what happened against the Niners last week.

slipknottin
01-26-2012, 06:49 PM
Petrus played 5 snaps against the 9ers and allowed 2 pressures.

This place loves to rip guys who are new and obviously injured. Did the same to Canty, Bernard, Boley, etc.

TheEnigma
01-26-2012, 06:52 PM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center: 105.75 YPG rushing 5 sacks allowed by OL 12 games with Baas at center: 83.6 YPG rushing 23 sacks allowed by OL Postseason (mostly Baas): 117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game) 8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)Statistics alone don't work here. We need to know the oponents on the days Petrus was in*as well as who was playing oposite them that day. Then you need to do the same for Baas in order to get to the meat of the issue. You aslo need to factor in the playing surface and weather. You may be on to something but right now it's just a bunch of numbers.From what Ive read Baas graded out as the Giants worst Olineman this year and Boothe as its bestWhere did you get those stats from? I could of swore it was Diehl this year.

Firenugget
01-26-2012, 06:54 PM
You're comparing wrong. Instead of overall stats when one is in vs the other you have to compare individually. Petrus is a very good run blocker but his pass blocking is downright horrible. That's why they didn't keep Boothe at C.

Axels15
01-26-2012, 06:59 PM
Petrus played 5 snaps against the 9ers and allowed 2 pressures.

This place loves to rip guys who are new and obviously injured. Did the same to Canty, Bernard, Boley, etc.

^ Yup

jhamburg
01-26-2012, 09:47 PM
Petrus played 5 snaps against the 9ers and allowed 2 pressures.

This place loves to rip guys who are new and obviously injured. Did the same to Canty, Bernard, Boley, etc.

I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying he's not getting the job done at the moment. Who cares if it's injury or not? If you're playing poorly you shouldn't start.

slipknottin
01-26-2012, 09:52 PM
I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying he's not getting the job done at the moment. Who cares if it's injury or not? If you're playing poorly you shouldn't start.

Hes playing better than the alternative. Even with his injury.

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 09:54 PM
Petrus played 5 snaps against the 9ers and allowed 2 pressures.

This place loves to rip guys who are new and obviously injured. Did the same to Canty, Bernard, Boley, etc.Do not lump most haters to this outlook. Because I actually kept quiet on most of them based on injury, and knew we needed to wait and see.

Many who are saying something, like me are not the normal bashers, or haters.

Baas is not injured,except when he had migraines & thats when he missed some time.

So either he is injured and the coaches are inept because they are starting him when its obvious to nearly everyone he shouldn't be starting, or he sucks.

We will find out next year, and hopefully not in the SB.

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 09:56 PM
Petrus played 5 snaps against the 9ers and allowed 2 pressures.

This place loves to rip guys who are new and obviously injured. Did the same to Canty, Bernard, Boley, etc.

I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying he's not getting the job done at the moment. Who cares if it's injury or not? If you're playing poorly you shouldn't start.Wow common sense. Bingo, ding ding ding, kudos. Need i say more? Conrats

slipknottin
01-26-2012, 09:57 PM
Baas is not injured,except when he had migraines & thats when he missed some time.

Hes an OL, they are almost always hurt, and almost never in the injury report. Unless you really think Snee has been healthy all season too...

buddy33
01-26-2012, 10:06 PM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center: 105.75 YPG rushing 5 sacks allowed by OL 12 games with Baas at center: 83.6 YPG rushing 23 sacks allowed by OL Postseason (mostly Baas): 117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game) 8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)Statistics alone don't work here. We need to know the oponents on the days Petrus was in*as well as who was playing oposite them that day. Then you need to do the same for Baas in order to get to the meat of the issue. You aslo need to factor in the playing surface and weather. You may be on to something but right now it's just a bunch of numbers.From what Ive read Baas graded out as the Giants worst Olineman this year and Boothe as its best

Really? That is not good to hear.

nycsportzfan
01-26-2012, 10:34 PM
Petrus played 5 snaps against the 9ers and allowed 2 pressures.

This place loves to rip guys who are new and obviously injured. Did the same to Canty, Bernard, Boley, etc. I actually see it as people like to act like they didn't doubt the players when they finally start producing for us 3yrs into there contracts or whatever lol When people were knocking the plaeyrs u mentioned they were doing crap for us! Either injured or when playing simply not producing.. I think everyone is very happy they finally started to play well(not that they didn't have spurts) but dude Bernard was Cut for godsake!!!lol The guy lost his starting job to a 2nd yr player with no starting expierence! All u heard about as far as the GIANTS in the draft was how much we need "LB's" and how much our LB"s were a weakness and that was with the underachieving Boley.. Canty is having his best season right now which has nothing to do with the less then stellar 2seasons prior.. Baas has been dreadful or injured this entire season.. Dosen't mean he wont play better down the line but as of now who in there right mind woulden't rip his play?

JJC7301
01-26-2012, 10:43 PM
I agree that the line plays much better with Booth at center and Petrus at Guard. However because of the amount of money your paying Baas. You have to play him.
Not with a title on the line, you don't.

With that being said, I feel more comfortable with the veterans Diehl and Baas in there to start. I normally back Petrus and Boothe, but I don't know if I'd have them start the SB.

slipknottin
01-26-2012, 10:52 PM
Dosen't mean he wont play better* down the line but as of now*** who in there right mind woulden't rip his play?


Just irks me that its always the new guy.

Baas has guards on each side of him who are just awful lately, neither OT can pass block at all. Wheres the thread asking why isnt Petrus starting over Snee? Snee got abused horribly against the pats. 2.5 sacks given up to ray mcdonald, who has a grand total of 10 sacks in 5 seasons?

Diehl himself gave up 10 freakin pressures. But the focus is all on Baas, why?

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 11:09 PM
Baas is not injured,except when he had migraines & thats when he missed some time.

Hes an OL, they are almost always hurt, and almost never in the injury report. Unless you really think Snee has been healthy all season too...Well if they would have replaced snee him w/someone better(healthier) at the time till he healed if injured, then yea I be fine with that.

As the Giants say, if your in there that means your healthy enough to play. And if you can't handle it because you are not *0% or 100% then do not hurt the team and let the next guy up, till you are back to where you need to be.

TheEnigma
01-26-2012, 11:10 PM
But the focus is all on Baas, why?I think some posters wear rose-tinted glasses when looking at certain players on this O-line.

Diehl has been outright horrible this year at both LG and LT. Every time I would go to PFF and read the weekly Giants vs. X article, there was always an entry about how Diehl allowed so many pressures and if I recall correctly, he's top 5 in pressures allowed per snap. Now I don't have access to all of their stats because I'm not paying $30 a month for it but I highly doubt PFF has some agenda against Diehl so I'll take their word for it.

Kmac has lost his quickness due to age and it shows really bad on his side. All we can hope for is that Brewer will be ready next year to take over for RT.

Snee is someone I'm willing to forgive and chalk it up to a down year. You can't just ditch a multiple Pro Bowl Guard so quickly.

Beatty though was the guy I saw get bashed here the most frequent this season before he got injured. People rarely gave him props when he had a good game but when he did bad, oh boy did we hear about it! It's like everyone expects our LT to be Walter Jones 2.0 or a better and more recent example would be Jake Long.

These aren't the same guys from the Superbowl or from that 2008 season with the phenomenal runblocking. It's time we look at these guys as great Giants but merely shadows of their former selves.

miked1958
01-26-2012, 11:13 PM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center: 105.75 YPG rushing 5 sacks allowed by OL 12 games with Baas at center: 83.6 YPG rushing 23 sacks allowed by OL Postseason (mostly Baas): 117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game) 8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)Statistics alone don't work here. We need to know the oponents on the days Petrus was in*as well as who was playing oposite them that day. Then you need to do the same for Baas in order to get to the meat of the issue. You aslo need to factor in the playing surface and weather. You may be on to something but right now it's just a bunch of numbers.
True.. Unless it is broken down in the way you laid it out, then no sense making the comparisons

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 11:19 PM
Dosen't mean he wont play better* down the line but as of now*** who in there right mind woulden't rip his play?


Just irks me that its always the new guy.

Baas has guards on each side of him who are just awful lately, neither OT can pass block at all. Wheres the thread asking why isnt Petrus starting over Snee? Snee got abused horribly against the pats. 2.5 sacks given up to ray mcdonald, who has a grand total of 10 sacks in 5 seasons?

Diehl himself gave up 10 freakin pressures. But the focus is all on Baas, why?Funny when NYCS says it, you understand the reasoning, when others lay it out, you do not and lump them all together.

If you read my posts in the past. I have been harping on some of those issues for the last 2-3 years.

Now back to your point. D2 was horrible at Guard, and I thought he would transition back to it, better then ever, as it was his natural position. I was wrong, and was on the verge of wanting Petrus in there. But with the way the Injuries occurred he was our best option at LT (or am i wrong so far?)

So Snee was playing bad for a long time. And I do agree with you, that he may be injured. But I do not think anyone on the team could play better then he even with his non known injuries (but if there was someone, I would support it)

Now RT, again I made my issues known. If you haven't seen it before, well won't start.

Back to the future. So the best way to improve our line ATM, is with Boothe, petrus, while the other issues cannot be addressed at the moment, because if they could I would do it in a heart beat.

I was hoping for Beatty (but now he is injured), Petrus, Baas( But now prefer Boothe), Snee, and Maybe give D2 a shot at RT. Then in the offseason do what needs to be done.

So stop trying to lump everyone together as player haters. Or that all of a sudden we are coming out of the wood work, to hate on this one poor guy on the line.

I want Baas to be great for us, and if they are hiding an injury thats on the coaching staff, and it is their job as they say to put the best out there, as they say they always do.

I am hoping he is better next year, but for now I WANT THE BEST 5 we have. But we all know that won't happen going into the SB, as it wasn't changed in the playoff run.

slipknottin
01-26-2012, 11:34 PM
And thats the biggest issue I have with your reasoning.

Petrus is WORSE than Boothe or Baas.

He played 5 snaps against the 9ers. 5.

He allowed 2 pressures.

That is WORSE than ANYONE else on the OL. Worse than the awful Diehl, worse than McKenzie, far worse than Boothe, far worse than Baas.

DragonSoul
01-26-2012, 11:46 PM
Well what do expect when he barely has played for a while to come mid game for a few snaps vs 1 of the best defenses in the league? Guess that isn't obvious either ?

Also saw a lot of low snaps from Baas that game as well.

Also from Paul Dottino - Who covers the NYG and is a guy who totes the giants line...Just saw it .

yes, needs to improve next yr RT @EliIsELITE @giantswfan I think it's safe to say Baas signing was bust. know was injured, but; I donno...

Amazing how everyone and the blind can see it.

jhamburg
01-27-2012, 12:05 AM
And thats the biggest issue I have with your reasoning.

Petrus is WORSE than Boothe or Baas.

He played 5 snaps against the 9ers. 5.

He allowed 2 pressures.

That is WORSE than ANYONE else on the OL. Worse than the awful Diehl, worse than McKenzie, far worse than Boothe, far worse than Baas.

Nice sample size. What about all of the other games he played?

And from looking at Eli's jersey, I doubt the other lineman fared very well against the niners either.

bearbryant
01-27-2012, 12:21 AM
baas should be given a seat in back of the Giants bench where he can wave his " All in" towel. What a waste of 27 MM. Compared to baas, petrus is a beast, regardless of what your intelligent statistics say.</P>


Petrus for President, baas for dogcatcher!!!</P>

giantsfan420
01-27-2012, 12:27 AM
no one is hoping Baas sucks. or that Petrus doesnt develop into a complete guard, but as of now, Baas is the best choice at C and Boothe at G. and although the OL we have now is not going to be our unit next season and changes will need to be made, we've gotten to the SB with this OL so that says something.

And its not just a 5 play sample size. Petrus played in a few games when Baas went down. And he did a commendable job, especially in run blocking. its just Petrus is not complete just yet, he does have issues in pass protection.

I believe that next year Petrus could be our answer at LG, and that the playing time he had this season will go a long ways in his development, its just I dont think u can reshuffle the OL right now.

Reese has been spot on on almost every move he's made. Some took longer to pan out for everyone to see. I thought Canty had played well his entire stint here, its just he wasnt getting the glory sacks, but he was helping others get the sacks by collapsing the pocket. I still hold out hope for Baas, its just right now, his play hasnt seemed to warrant the contract he got.

We're about to be SB champions again tho, so how bad is it really? Granted, players are covering up some of our flaws, namely Eli, but theres no reason to doubt success vs NE.

buddy33
01-27-2012, 07:31 AM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center: 105.75 YPG rushing 5 sacks allowed by OL 12 games with Baas at center: 83.6 YPG rushing 23 sacks allowed by OL Postseason (mostly Baas): 117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game) 8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)Statistics alone don't work here. We need to know the oponents on the days Petrus was in*as well as who was playing oposite them that day. Then you need to do the same for Baas in order to get to the meat of the issue. You aslo need to factor in the playing surface and weather. You may be on to something but right now it's just a bunch of numbers.From what Ive read Baas graded out as the Giants worst Olineman this year and Boothe as its best

I had to bring this back up because it seems to be the clear answer as to why people are not big on Baas. Not because he is new and people want him to fail.

nygsb42champs
01-27-2012, 08:16 AM
I think Petrus has a bright future but it is so hard to compare numbers without looking at who was the opponent, players against Petrus, etc...

MattMeyerBud
01-27-2012, 08:18 AM
4 games with Petrus starting or playing most of the game and Boothe at center:

105.75 YPG rushing
5 sacks allowed by OL

12 games with Baas at center:

83.6 YPG rushing
23 sacks allowed by OL

Postseason (mostly Baas):

117 YPG rushing (much better, mostly due to ATL game)
8 sacks allowed by OL (not good)

i was waiting for somebody to post this stat. Watching the games you knew it was something ridiculous like that...

Baas vs Wilfork is going to be the scariest matchup

Redeyejedi
01-27-2012, 08:54 AM
And thats the biggest issue I have with your reasoning.

Petrus is WORSE than Boothe or Baas.

He played 5 snaps against the 9ers. 5.

He allowed 2 pressures.

That is WORSE than ANYONE else on the OL. Worse than the awful Diehl, worse than McKenzie, far worse than Boothe, far worse than Baas.
I dont know why u would be surprised the new guy gets bashed what has he done for the giants.The other guys like Snee,Diehil,Mckenzie they have been here won a Super Bowl. Baas was a back up on the 49ers line that got put in do to injury got a decent sized contract and has sucked. Of course he is going to get bashed more.Thats not evening factoring in the love for a lot of people have for Ohara and Seubart who he replaced.I know there done but still I think it fuels it a little more.

The Giants are fully aware of there deficiencies on the Oline and win or lose this Super Bowl i think there will be an effort to upgrade it. Even if that means trading up for a guy on draft day.
I dont think they believe Beatty is the answer either but they didnt force it on draft day. I think we may see them do it this year