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RoanokeFan
01-28-2012, 08:28 PM
KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/kevin-gilbride-option-offense-passing-game-fuels-ny-giants-article-1.1013448)</p>

"The hands clap and the huddle breaks and the receivers jog out to their
positions. Kevin Gilbride (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Kevin+Gilbride) has
already relayed the play to Eli Manning (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Eli+Manning), but the
receivers still have no idea where they’re going to go.</p>

That’s part of the beauty of the Gilbride offense. Everything the receivers
do is based on what happens next. Is there man-to-man coverage or a zone? Which
way are the safeties shading? Are the corners pressing on the line or leaving a
cushion?</p><div class="story-body">


Then, when the ball is snapped and the defense goes in motion, everything
could change...again.</p>


“Yeah, it’s definitely tough,” says receiver Victor Cruz (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Victor+Cruz). “It’s one
of the biggest things I had to adjust to, learning how to read coverages and
adjust mid-route. We had a few read-routes in college, but nothing to this
extent where it’s 15 yards down field and you have to make an adjustment.
Sometimes they may line up one way, then when the ball comes they move to
somewhere else. So you have to see all of that.”</p>


It’s a demanding system. It can be confusing. It can be frustrating, too,
especially to a young player. It’s also explosive, “quarterback-friendly,”
potent, and the most prolific offensive system the Giants franchise has ever
seen.</p>


“That’s the beauty of it,” says backup quarterback David Carr (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/David+Carr).
“When we’re rolling, it’s hard to stop.”</p>


That’s what the 60-year-old Gilbride has created in his eighth season with
the Giants and fifth since taking over as the offensive coordinator. He’s helped
turn Eli Manning from an erratic, interception-prone quarterback into a
near-5,000-yard passer. He’s built an offensive machine that has rallied from
six fourth-quarter deficits this year. It can strike so quickly, the Giants
never feel like they’re out of a game.</p>


And he’s done that with a rebuilding offensive line, the 32nd-ranked rushing
attack in the league, and a tight end (Jake Ballard (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Jake+Ballard)) and star
receiver (Victor Cruz) who had never had a single catch in the NFL before this
year.</p>


Manning gets all the credit, and much of it is deserved. But it’s not like
he’s on the field drawing up plays in the dirt.</p>


“Eli’s playing so well and that’s a tribute to Kevin,” says former Giants
quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Chris+Palmer), who is
now the offensive coordinator with the Tennessee Titans. “The guy is an
outstanding football coach and does a great job. What is perceived about him and
what is real is not necessarily one and the same. Kevin should get a lot of
credit for the success they’ve had this year.”</p>


Ask anyone in the locker room, and Gilbride does get the credit. <a title="Tom Coughlin" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tom+Coughlin">Tom
Coughlin</a> praises his ability as a teacher and his players praise his
patience and the way he calls a game. It drives them crazy that he’s a target
for angry fans, who sometimes call him “Killdrive” when games don’t go the
Giants’ way.
</p></div>He’s always had a reputation problem, though, dating back to his days running
the run-and-shoot offense with the Houston Oilers (1990-94). Gilbride got a
label he couldn’t shake when former Oilers defensive coordinator <a title="Buddy Ryan" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Buddy+Ryan">Buddy
Ryan</a> famously called his wide-open passing attack the “chuck-and-duck” and
then even more famously when Rex’s dad tried to punch him on the sidelines in
the middle of a game.<div class="story-body">


Yes, Gilbride may look like a pass-happy coordinator at times, but it’s easy
to forget that in 2008 the Giants had the NFL’s seventh-best offense with the
No. 1 rushing attack. In fact, in three of his five seasons as offensive
coordinator, the Giants’ rushing attack was ranked higher than its passing
attack in the league.</p>


What makes Gilbride appear pass-happy is this: He runs what everyone
considers a “quarterback-friendly” offense that puts a lot of responsibility on
the receivers and control in the quarterbacks’ hands. They throw because they
can. And it works.</p>


“A lot is asked of the quarterback,” Carr says. “You’ve got the freedom to do
pretty much whatever you want. The playbook’s open to you. You’ve got to be on
your game. But if you are, it’s a great thing.”</p>


Explained very simply, Manning has the ability to change the play to almost
anything in that week’s game plan, based on what he sees in the defensive
alignment. And when he calls a pass play, the receivers have several options to
change their routes on each play, depending on what the defense does. It’s
complicated and hard to learn, and it can be very tricky for the quarterback and
receiver to make sure they’re seeing exactly the same thing out of each
defender.</p>


Because there are so many options in Gilbride’s offense, though, when it’s
run correctly there are more chances for it to work.</p>


“You give the receivers several options to get open and when guys get open
you, as a quarterback, have an opportunity to throw the ball,” Palmer says.
“When a receiver doesn’t get open, that becomes a burden. It’s reassuring to the
quarterback that ‘Hey, one of these guys are going to get open.’ I would say on
most plays there’s going to be a guy that’s open in this offense.”</p>


“I’ve been in offenses where it’s all based on progressions - 1, 2, 3, find
the back,” Carr adds. “There’s some of that. But we’re trying to scheme. We’re
trying to find the best possible play vs. that defense at that time to just gash
them. That’s why it works.”</p>


It also works because Gilbride is an outstanding teacher and someone that, as
Coughlin says, can “evaluate your talent and see what they can and cannot do.”
He was the quarterbacks coach through the first three years of Manning’s career,
learned his strengths and his weaknesses well, developed a special bond with him
and helped him grow into the Pro Bowler he is today.
</p></div>“Coach Gilbride and I have a very close relationship,” Manning says. “When I
first got here, he was the quarterbacks coach, so I got to kind of learn from
him, and hearing him directly and watching old film of the Oilers and different
things when they were running it. We think the same way on a lot of things and
certain looks. A lot of times he doesn’t even need to finish his sentence,
because I’m already on the same page.”<div class="story-body">


Sure, it helps that Gilbride likes to throw. A lot. He even jokes that
Coughlin sometimes sits in on the offensive meetings just “to make sure I don’t
veer too far off of the reservation and throw the ball 65 times in a game or
something like that.” Manning says Gilbride calls plays with “a quarterback
mentality.” And while he’ll go with whatever’s working, it’s obvious what he
prefers.</p>


“If we’re not running it really well and we’re throwing it well, I’ll just go
up to him and say, ‘Hey, they can’t stop us throwing it. Let’s just keep
throwing it,’?” Manning says. “And he kind of gets a smile. I think that’s what
he likes to hear.”</p>


That’s the way the NFL is now - a pass-first league - which makes Gilbride
the ideal offensive coordinator for this era. If he were 15 years younger his
work with the Giants might have already earned him a head coaching job
somewhere. He’d probably still be an attractive candidate if he hadn’t already
had a failed stint as a head coach with the San Diego Chargers in 1997-98, when
he was run out of town with a 6-16 record after he couldn’t connect with his
hot-headed rookie quarterback, Ryan Leaf (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Ryan+Leaf).</p>


When those 22 games are added to his image problem, it helps paint a picture
that belies the numbers his offenses regularly produce. It also paints a picture
his players believe is completely unfair.</p>


“I don’t think he gets enough credit,” says guard Chris Snee (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Chris+Snee). “I
feel like I always hear a lot of negative stuff about him. He’s the first one
everyone wants to blame for play calling and things like that, but I think he
does a great job.”</p>


Some might say it’s the best job Gilbride has done in his five years running
the Giants’ offense.</p>


Considering the players the Giants lost before the season started, the
injuries that forced him to reshuffle his line and play four games without his
starting running back, and how he helped turn a blocking tight end and an
unknown receiver into stars, it might be the best job he’s done in his 23 years
in the league.</p>


“I’d rather let you answer that than me,” Gilbride says. “Let me just say
that I’m very proud of the guys that I work with. We started with five new guys
and then we had all of the injuries and the youth and the guys who haven’t
played and some of the things that we ask them to do. You don’t just, in our
offense, go out and run a 12-yard curl or a 10-yard in-cut. We ask them to read
a lot of things. We put a lot of pressure on receivers to see things as a
quarterback would. It’s very difficult as a coach to get those things
coordinated.</p>


“So to see them grow like that - obviously, what are you? You’re a teacher.
When you’re a teacher and you can see your pupils getting better and feel like
you contributed, you’re very proud of their growth and development. So you feel,
‘Maybe I helped them a little bit.’”</p>


Not that he ever gets the credit for that. He’s too busy taking the blame
when everything doesn’t work to perfection.</p>


“I think it’s just the nature of the position,” Carr says. “I think he does a
good job just by not paying attention to it. He’s going to be who he is.
Nobody’s going to change him now.”</p></div>

Voldamort
01-28-2012, 09:21 PM
KG teacher,the Giants and there fan's don't know how lucky we have been to have him and TC!!

gmen0820
01-28-2012, 09:49 PM
Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.

T-Murda84
01-28-2012, 10:01 PM
Lol Thanks for this thread...Im a huge fan of Kevin Gilbride and this coaching staff. Since Coughlin and Gilbride came together, we have put up some potent numbers Offensively and we do it with a healthy balance of run and pass. The Giants of the past, was a conversative running the ball with a game managing QB.

Why would any1 want Gilbride and Eli Manning separated? Eli Manning has flourished in this offense, and this offense makes us unpredictable when our receivers run routes. The coaching staff does a good job getting Cruz and Ballard ready for an offense like this.... U hear all this praise for Reese, but Reese didnt choose Cruz based on this type of offense because Cruz said this offense was different. That SHOWS THIS COACHING STAFF puts players in the best position to succeed. This coaching staff and Eli Manning deserves alot of credit getting these young guys ready.

gmen0820
01-28-2012, 10:32 PM
"Eli’s playing so well and that’s a tribute to Kevin,” says former Giants
quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Chris+Palmer), who is
now the offensive coordinator with the Tennessee Titans. “The guy is an
outstanding football coach and does a great job. What is perceived about him and
what is real is not necessarily one and the same. Kevin should get a lot of
credit for the success they’ve had this year.”Yeah but what does he know? LOL

AGiantDynasty
01-28-2012, 10:44 PM
Sure the guy is phenomenal when it comes to a passing attack. Setting up a passing scheme for a game, im not sure there are many coaches that are better. But thats where it stops for me..

The problem presents itself when he refuses to change and adapt to how our team is playing in a game. Our running game can be on fire (not much this year) and he will abandon the run and throw it 4-6 straight times. We have all seen games where AB and BJ are having there was with a defense in the second half and then... It stops..

When he does call a running play, id give it a solid 40% of the time the play doesnt play to the strength of the player called. Tosses to BJ to the outside for example. That is NOT his strength. BJ is best attacking the LOS and then bouncing it to the outside at the 2nd lvl. He needs to get straight speed first and that allows his big body to be more agile.

Then we can talk about the WR Screens that avg about .3 yds an attempt. Or perhaps we should talk about 3rd and 2 we throw a 50 yard bomb to the endzone for an incompletion.

My largest problem with Gilbride is his inability to design short gain plays. Everything is either a run, bomb or god awful WR screen. We need more pass plays that take advantage of short yardage.

Every single Giants fan can attest to the fact that they are more confident in a 3rd and 6 situation then a 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 1. Why? Because Gilbride focuses so much on attacking downfield he sometimes forgets to simple MOVE THE CHAINS.

And Gilbride has NOTHING to do with Eli having a phenomenal game after getting his *** kicked by the 49ers. In fact, it was Gilbrides long passing attempts that allowed Eli to get manhandled like he did. Sorry but if we lost that game or Eli got injured, we are talking about Gilbrides head on a platter for having Eli throw the ball 60 times in a game.

Sorry, I am not buying it. In my honest opinion, we would be putting up similar numbers with or without Gilbride. I give him solid credit for his passing schemes as they are very solid. But as an overall OC, I simply do not like his passing bias or his play calling.

Be honest guys, he has made just as many crappy play calls as he has made good ones.

I'm simply not buying this.. I prefer a more balanced offense. Who is to say Kevin isnt a large part of why our running game hasnt been good this year. If he is getting the passing praise, he should get the running failure.

Raptor22
01-28-2012, 10:54 PM
Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.

As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.

gmen0820
01-28-2012, 11:00 PM
Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.

As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.
Definitely agreed on all fronts. I'd love to bring Smith back if possible.

I wouldn't mind seeing Barden as our slot guy next year, since I love Cruz's prospects on the outside and since Barden has stated he is comfortable in the slot (and what a weapon in the slot he can be on paper, a 6-6 guy matching up against small nickel corners), if he can stay healthy, get off the line of scrimmage, play a little tougher and put it in a **** ton of time with KG, Eli and the core. He seems to have the character to do it, but will his body hold up and can he play a little tougher.

If not, I am open to bringing a Steve Smith or even possibly a Plaxico Burress back, who in his second year back, I feel, in an offense he is comfortable in and a QB who is just heads and shoulders and toes above Sanchez, he can be a huge threat.

Raptor22
01-28-2012, 11:32 PM
Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.

As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.
Definitely agreed on all fronts. I'd love to bring Smith back if possible.

I wouldn't mind seeing Barden as our slot guy next year, since I love Cruz's prospects on the outside and since Barden has stated he is comfortable in the slot (and what a weapon in the slot he can be on paper, a 6-6 guy matching up against small nickel corners), if he can stay healthy, get off the line of scrimmage, play a little tougher and put it in a **** ton of time with KG, Eli and the core. He seems to have the character to do it, but will his body hold up and can he play a little tougher.

If not, I am open to bringing a Steve Smith or even possibly a Plaxico Burress back, who in his second year back, I feel, in an offense he is comfortable in and a QB who is just heads and shoulders and toes above Sanchez, he can be a huge threat.

I don't think Barden's toughness is really a problem. The few times he's seen the field, he played plenty tough (laying a nice block on Cruz's 99yrd TD run, or just manhandling the Pats' D on a couple crucial 3rd downs the first time the teams met). IMO, the big reason why he hasn't been in the lineup is because of what Thomas offers on ST's, and the fact that the current lineup is working so well, so why change it?

Also, I think JJ12 has gotten lost in the shuffle a bit, but he's a smart kid as well, and very tough (you have to be when you're going over the middle and EVERYBODY knows you ARE the offense)

If the front office/coaches bring Smith back, I'd welcome him back, but if they want to continue to move on, that's fine by me as well. I trust them, but I also worry that rushing back to play may have done lasting damage to his knee. I don't need to see Plax back. I don't think he's matured any since he was last here.

Raptor22
01-28-2012, 11:32 PM
Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.

As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.
Definitely agreed on all fronts. I'd love to bring Smith back if possible.

I wouldn't mind seeing Barden as our slot guy next year, since I love Cruz's prospects on the outside and since Barden has stated he is comfortable in the slot (and what a weapon in the slot he can be on paper, a 6-6 guy matching up against small nickel corners), if he can stay healthy, get off the line of scrimmage, play a little tougher and put it in a **** ton of time with KG, Eli and the core. He seems to have the character to do it, but will his body hold up and can he play a little tougher.

If not, I am open to bringing a Steve Smith or even possibly a Plaxico Burress back, who in his second year back, I feel, in an offense he is comfortable in and a QB who is just heads and shoulders and toes above Sanchez, he can be a huge threat.

I don't think Barden's toughness is really a problem. The few times he's seen the field, he played plenty tough (laying a nice block on Cruz's 99yrd TD run, or just manhandling the Pats' D on a couple crucial 3rd downs the first time the teams met). IMO, the big reason why he hasn't been in the lineup is because of what Thomas offers on ST's, and the fact that the current lineup is working so well, so why change it?

Also, I think JJ12 has gotten lost in the shuffle a bit, but he's a smart kid as well, and very tough (you have to be when you're going over the middle and EVERYBODY knows you ARE the offense)

If the front office/coaches bring Smith back, I'd welcome him back, but if they want to continue to move on, that's fine by me as well. I trust them, but I also worry that rushing back to play may have done lasting damage to his knee. I don't need to see Plax back. I don't think he's matured any since he was last here.

giantsfan420
01-29-2012, 01:34 AM
the issue i've had with KG is that his option route tree is dictated by what the defense does. ultimately, the defense is making the decisions for the wr's, meaning based on the coverages the wr will run a certain route. to me, that doesnt seem like it'd work like lets say the GB pass scheme, where the routes are dictating what the defense does, and therefore there is always a route that can exploit the d.

i guess its basically the opposite of what KG does but of the same mentality. the games we've struggled, it seems the d has figured out how to defend the wr into a route that has a low chance of success. to me thats always been my issue, instead of formulating a game plan that puts the defense into tough decisions, we're allowing the defense to put us into tough decisions.

when KGs system works it looks great, but when it doesnt, the offense struggles to do anything really. and thats where i've had problems with it. not when its looking good, but when its looking bad and we dont seem to have a way to counteract what the d is doing bc the d is forcing us into difficult situations.

with that said i do have to eat some crow about KG bc it has looked excellent recently. but then, how much of that falls onto amazing qb play? pretty much any offensive system would look great with eli playing at the level he is now imo.

also, our system runs a 2 wr to 3 wr set, where as other systems like GB will use personnel to create opportunties. part of GB success is there ability to line up 4 wr's and then use those wrs to run route trees that exploit a certain defensive coverage and at that point, theres no defending it...unless the qb starts to throw inaccurate passes.

but at this point in eli, cruz, nicks career, i wouldnt want to change schemes or strategy bc it seems like they are clicking on all cylinders and can only get better from here with more time together where as if we were to implement a new scheme, maybe cruz or nicks or eli isnt the player they are now. granted, theres the chance they could become much better, but is it worth the risk to change now when theres the chance they could become much worse?

i dunno, i guess its easy to armchair coach when things are going tough and want to see how another formula would work but why discuss that now when this formula is clearly working

edit-an example would be NO seam route attack. they'll line up spread out, and have there wr's run seam routes attacking the safety responsibilities. whomever the safety goes to help, the qb throws it to the other wr. where as our scheme, its up to the wrs to see where the safety is going and then to adjust there route on the fly. it just seems like theres more of an opportunity for the defense to trick us into making a mistake where as i have appreciated systems like GB and NO where the wr's are running routes that force the defense into decisions and when the d makes the mistake, big play touchdowns can happen literally any single play.

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE
01-29-2012, 01:39 AM
I've said several times I'm not a big fan of KG. I'm not gonna completely **** on him either. He is a good OC. My problems are:

1. Yes the option routes the receivers run can lead to explosive play when the QB and receivers are on the same page...but that's when. If a receiver zigs when Manning thought he should zag based on the coverage it leads to easy INTs.

2. For players such as Manningham who as most say isn't the brightest it limits his potential.

3. My biggest problem is when the defense is clearly getting pressure he doesn't adjust. He doesn't shorten the routes or throw slants or anything to take the pressure off the o-line.

4. I wish they would remove the run out of the shotgun play on 2nd down out of the playbook. If I know its coming I'm more then sure the paid professionals know its coming.

Now with all that said who the **** am I to criticize KG I'm just a fan and he is the OC with the ring and his team 1 win away from another. So please understand the are just my amateur opinions.

Sidebar: I will give him props on thinking we had enough with our WRs and didn't need Stokley (which seems like a million years ago). I can only imagine what this team would be had he come and taken valuable snaps from Cruz.

giantsfan420
01-29-2012, 02:03 AM
I've said several times I'm not a big fan of KG. I'm not gonna completely **** on him either. He is a good OC. My problems are:

1. Yes the option routes the receivers run can lead to explosive play when the QB and receivers are on the same page...but that's when. If a receiver zigs when Manning thought he should zag based on the coverage it leads to easy INTs.

2. For players such as Manningham who as most say isn't the brightest it limits his potential.

3. My biggest problem is when the defense is clearly getting pressure he doesn't adjust. He doesn't shorten the routes or throw slants or anything to take the pressure off the o-line.

4. I wish they would remove the run out of the shotgun play on 2nd down out of the playbook. If I know its coming I'm more then sure the paid professionals know its coming.

Now with all that said who the **** am I to criticize KG I'm just a fan and he is the OC with the ring and his team 1 win away from another. So please understand the are just my amateur opinions.

Sidebar: I will give him props on thinking we had enough with our WRs and didn't need Stokley (which seems like a million years ago). I can only imagine what this team would be had he come and taken valuable snaps from Cruz.

agree with everything especially 1. also, that does go unnoticed around here, after the DC week one loss, everyone and i do mean everyone was talking about who we could bring in. KG was the only guy in NYC area who felt the answer was already on the team. not that he knew it would be cruz but that he knew we had several guys who had the chance to step up and fill that void.

and again, im just more of a fan of u dictating to the the opponent what they will do. not allowing the opponent to dictate to me what i will do.

miked1958
01-29-2012, 02:27 AM
Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.

As frustrating as the Giants O can be at times, too many people just don't realize how much is going on there (something I always bring up when people are complaining about the playclock running down).

IMO, what makes Nicks/Cruz so damn good is that they are ALWAYS with Eli and Gilbride, studying and trying to get better.

Its not that I don't think 'Rio can be the same type of player... he put up some great numbers last year. However, I sometimes think the offense is just too complicated for him. IIRC, he had one of the worst Wonderlic scores ever. Maybe he should have been a DB? There's an inverse correlation between wonderlic scores and CB ability (the best CB's have the worst scores). He's definitely got the athleticism for it.

That's also why I'd like to see Barden get a shot as the slot guy next season. He's got a reputation as a very smart/studious player and took the time to show up to Camp Eli even though he couldn't participate.
Agreed

miked1958
01-29-2012, 02:38 AM
KEVIN GILBRIDE'S "OPTION" OFFENSE IN PASSING GAME FUELS GIANTS (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/kevin-gilbride-option-offense-passing-game-fuels-ny-giants-article-1.1013448)</p>

"The hands clap and the huddle breaks and the receivers jog out to their
positions. Kevin Gilbride (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Kevin+Gilbride) has
already relayed the play to Eli Manning (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Eli+Manning), but the
receivers still have no idea where they’re going to go.</p>

That’s part of the beauty of the Gilbride offense. Everything the receivers
do is based on what happens next. Is there man-to-man coverage or a zone? Which
way are the safeties shading? Are the corners pressing on the line or leaving a
cushion?</p><div class="story-body">


Then, when the ball is snapped and the defense goes in motion, everything
could change...again.</p>


“Yeah, it’s definitely tough,” says receiver Victor Cruz (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Victor+Cruz). “It’s one
of the biggest things I had to adjust to, learning how to read coverages and
adjust mid-route. We had a few read-routes in college, but nothing to this
extent where it’s 15 yards down field and you have to make an adjustment.
Sometimes they may line up one way, then when the ball comes they move to
somewhere else. So you have to see all of that.”</p>


It’s a demanding system. It can be confusing. It can be frustrating, too,
especially to a young player. It’s also explosive, “quarterback-friendly,”
potent, and the most prolific offensive system the Giants franchise has ever
seen.</p>


“That’s the beauty of it,” says backup quarterback David Carr (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/David+Carr).
“When we’re rolling, it’s hard to stop.”</p>


That’s what the 60-year-old Gilbride has created in his eighth season with
the Giants and fifth since taking over as the offensive coordinator. He’s helped
turn Eli Manning from an erratic, interception-prone quarterback into a
near-5,000-yard passer. He’s built an offensive machine that has rallied from
six fourth-quarter deficits this year. It can strike so quickly, the Giants
never feel like they’re out of a game.</p>


And he’s done that with a rebuilding offensive line, the 32nd-ranked rushing
attack in the league, and a tight end (Jake Ballard (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Jake+Ballard)) and star
receiver (Victor Cruz) who had never had a single catch in the NFL before this
year.</p>


Manning gets all the credit, and much of it is deserved. But it’s not like
he’s on the field drawing up plays in the dirt.</p>


“Eli’s playing so well and that’s a tribute to Kevin,” says former Giants
quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Chris+Palmer), who is
now the offensive coordinator with the Tennessee Titans. “The guy is an
outstanding football coach and does a great job. What is perceived about him and
what is real is not necessarily one and the same. Kevin should get a lot of
credit for the success they’ve had this year.”</p>


Ask anyone in the locker room, and Gilbride does get the credit. <a title="Tom Coughlin" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tom+Coughlin">Tom
Coughlin</a> praises his ability as a teacher and his players praise his
patience and the way he calls a game. It drives them crazy that he’s a target
for angry fans, who sometimes call him “Killdrive” when games don’t go the
Giants’ way.
</p></div>He’s always had a reputation problem, though, dating back to his days running
the run-and-shoot offense with the Houston Oilers (1990-94). Gilbride got a
label he couldn’t shake when former Oilers defensive coordinator <a title="Buddy Ryan" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Buddy+Ryan">Buddy
Ryan</a> famously called his wide-open passing attack the “chuck-and-duck” and
then even more famously when Rex’s dad tried to punch him on the sidelines in
the middle of a game.<div class="story-body">


Yes, Gilbride may look like a pass-happy coordinator at times, but it’s easy
to forget that in 2008 the Giants had the NFL’s seventh-best offense with the
No. 1 rushing attack. In fact, in three of his five seasons as offensive
coordinator, the Giants’ rushing attack was ranked higher than its passing
attack in the league.</p>


What makes Gilbride appear pass-happy is this: He runs what everyone
considers a “quarterback-friendly” offense that puts a lot of responsibility on
the receivers and control in the quarterbacks’ hands. They throw because they
can. And it works.</p>


“A lot is asked of the quarterback,” Carr says. “You’ve got the freedom to do
pretty much whatever you want. The playbook’s open to you. You’ve got to be on
your game. But if you are, it’s a great thing.”</p>


Explained very simply, Manning has the ability to change the play to almost
anything in that week’s game plan, based on what he sees in the defensive
alignment. And when he calls a pass play, the receivers have several options to
change their routes on each play, depending on what the defense does. It’s
complicated and hard to learn, and it can be very tricky for the quarterback and
receiver to make sure they’re seeing exactly the same thing out of each
defender.</p>


Because there are so many options in Gilbride’s offense, though, when it’s
run correctly there are more chances for it to work.</p>


“You give the receivers several options to get open and when guys get open
you, as a quarterback, have an opportunity to throw the ball,” Palmer says.
“When a receiver doesn’t get open, that becomes a burden. It’s reassuring to the
quarterback that ‘Hey, one of these guys are going to get open.’ I would say on
most plays there’s going to be a guy that’s open in this offense.”</p>


“I’ve been in offenses where it’s all based on progressions - 1, 2, 3, find
the back,” Carr adds. “There’s some of that. But we’re trying to scheme. We’re
trying to find the best possible play vs. that defense at that time to just gash
them. That’s why it works.”</p>


It also works because Gilbride is an outstanding teacher and someone that, as
Coughlin says, can “evaluate your talent and see what they can and cannot do.”
He was the quarterbacks coach through the first three years of Manning’s career,
learned his strengths and his weaknesses well, developed a special bond with him
and helped him grow into the Pro Bowler he is today.
</p></div>“Coach Gilbride and I have a very close relationship,” Manning says. “When I
first got here, he was the quarterbacks coach, so I got to kind of learn from
him, and hearing him directly and watching old film of the Oilers and different
things when they were running it. We think the same way on a lot of things and
certain looks. A lot of times he doesn’t even need to finish his sentence,
because I’m already on the same page.”<div class="story-body">


Sure, it helps that Gilbride likes to throw. A lot. He even jokes that
Coughlin sometimes sits in on the offensive meetings just “to make sure I don’t
veer too far off of the reservation and throw the ball 65 times in a game or
something like that.” Manning says Gilbride calls plays with “a quarterback
mentality.” And while he’ll go with whatever’s working, it’s obvious what he
prefers.</p>


“If we’re not running it really well and we’re throwing it well, I’ll just go
up to him and say, ‘Hey, they can’t stop us throwing it. Let’s just keep
throwing it,’?” Manning says. “And he kind of gets a smile. I think that’s what
he likes to hear.”</p>


That’s the way the NFL is now - a pass-first league - which makes Gilbride
the ideal offensive coordinator for this era. If he were 15 years younger his
work with the Giants might have already earned him a head coaching job
somewhere. He’d probably still be an attractive candidate if he hadn’t already
had a failed stint as a head coach with the San Diego Chargers in 1997-98, when
he was run out of town with a 6-16 record after he couldn’t connect with his
hot-headed rookie quarterback, Ryan Leaf (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Ryan+Leaf).</p>


When those 22 games are added to his image problem, it helps paint a picture
that belies the numbers his offenses regularly produce. It also paints a picture
his players believe is completely unfair.</p>


“I don’t think he gets enough credit,” says guard Chris Snee (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Chris+Snee). “I
feel like I always hear a lot of negative stuff about him. He’s the first one
everyone wants to blame for play calling and things like that, but I think he
does a great job.”</p>


Some might say it’s the best job Gilbride has done in his five years running
the Giants’ offense.</p>


Considering the players the Giants lost before the season started, the
injuries that forced him to reshuffle his line and play four games without his
starting running back, and how he helped turn a blocking tight end and an
unknown receiver into stars, it might be the best job he’s done in his 23 years
in the league.</p>


“I’d rather let you answer that than me,” Gilbride says. “Let me just say
that I’m very proud of the guys that I work with. We started with five new guys
and then we had all of the injuries and the youth and the guys who haven’t
played and some of the things that we ask them to do. You don’t just, in our
offense, go out and run a 12-yard curl or a 10-yard in-cut. We ask them to read
a lot of things. We put a lot of pressure on receivers to see things as a
quarterback would. It’s very difficult as a coach to get those things
coordinated.</p>


“So to see them grow like that - obviously, what are you? You’re a teacher.
When you’re a teacher and you can see your pupils getting better and feel like
you contributed, you’re very proud of their growth and development. So you feel,
‘Maybe I helped them a little bit.’”</p>


Not that he ever gets the credit for that. He’s too busy taking the blame
when everything doesn’t work to perfection.</p>


“I think it’s just the nature of the position,” Carr says. “I think he does a
good job just by not paying attention to it. He’s going to be who he is.
Nobody’s going to change him now.”</p></div>
He needs to come up with a game plan to hang 50 on Pats

miked1958
01-29-2012, 02:39 AM
Want to bury them

GreenZone
01-29-2012, 02:58 AM
So many geniuses around here with such clever reasoning why Kevin is no good. He's been allowed to be called names here all season as well.

And even now, the O.C. with the offense that is the envy of most NFL owners...but it's not enough for some. And no matter what he does, it will never be because he failed to convert on this play or that one.

The problem with a replacement is that he would fail on a number of the other plays in a game that succeed under Gilbride and which critics simply take for granted. Plus, you never hear a critic distinguish if/when the play call itself or execution could have been Eli's fault and not Kevin's...or simply the opposition making a play...or another player breaking down in execution.

The problem with most of the critics, though is that they couldn't distinguish a game film from an ESPN talk show.

G-Men Surg.
01-29-2012, 03:40 AM
Great read !
The Giants are getting the benefits of having 2 coordinators with previous HC experience. Good things always come to an end but hope they stay together for a long, long time .
Thanks RF !

Out of Exile
01-29-2012, 03:43 AM
I love KG haters. Yeah, sometimes his play calling is odd, but he's been great overall.

gmen0820
01-29-2012, 03:58 AM
So many geniuses around here with such clever reasoning why Kevin is no good. He's been allowed to be called names here all season as well.

And even now, the O.C. with the offense that is the envy of most NFL owners...but it's not enough for some. And no matter what he does, it will never be because he failed to convert on this play or that one.

The problem with a replacement is that he would fail on a number of the other plays in a game that succeed under Gilbride and which critics simply take for granted. Plus, you never hear a critic distinguish if/when the play call itself or execution could have been Eli's fault and not Kevin's...or simply the opposition making a play...or another player breaking down in execution.

The problem with most of the critics, though is that they couldn't distinguish* a game film from an ESPN talk show.
+1

CGYgiant
01-29-2012, 04:12 AM
So many geniuses around here with such clever reasoning why Kevin is no good. He's been allowed to be called names here all season as well.

And even now, the O.C. with the offense that is the envy of most NFL owners...but it's not enough for some. And no matter what he does, it will never be because he failed to convert on this play or that one.

The problem with a replacement is that he would fail on a number of the other plays in a game that succeed under Gilbride and which critics simply take for granted. Plus, you never hear a critic distinguish if/when the play call itself or execution could have been Eli's fault and not Kevin's...or simply the opposition making a play...or another player breaking down in execution.

The problem with most of the critics, though is that they couldn't distinguish* a game film from an ESPN talk show.
+1

Great post people on the board love harping on GIlbride for no reason. I've been saying the whole year that he is a great OC. Its funny how the Gilbride haters have magically disappeared..

rainierjef
01-29-2012, 04:19 AM
i ate my crow on gilbride lets see how he attacks the pats and i will never doubt him again if its a great called game but bad execution. i just hate the draws out of the shotgun especially when the passing game hasn't even been established yet

Hoova0797
01-29-2012, 04:34 AM
I know I do my fair share of criticizing Gilbride when watching the games on TV. As long as the Giant players believe in him, and he is really the one to get credit, then I'll shut up. All I know, and I think every Giant fan will agree with me, is when I see Eli in the shotgun and a back next to him, more times than not, it is that damn shotgun draw....whoever makes the decision to run that play goes to the well way too many times!</P>


And I also agree that I have more faith in our ability to get a first down on 3rd and 5+ rather than 2 or 1 yards</P>

CGYgiant
01-29-2012, 04:38 AM
I know I do my fair share of criticizing Gilbride when watching the games on TV.* As long as the Giant players believe in him, and he is really the one to get credit, then I'll shut up.* All I know, and I think every Giant fan will agree with me, is when I see Eli in the shotgun and a back next to him, more times than not, it is that damn shotgun draw....whoever makes the decision to run that play goes to the well way too many times!</P>


And I also agree that I have more faith in our ability to get a first down on 3rd and 5+ rather than 2 or 1 yards</P>

That same shotgun draw has worked SO many times this year. How many 2 point converts have we got with that? do you think teams will respect our run game at all when we line up in the shotgun? its about keeping the defense honest...is that hard to understand?

they play calling with 1 yard to go is fine. Its not Gilbrides fault our O line cant pass protect or run block..

Diamondring
01-29-2012, 06:50 AM
Hey, forget that mess. I was wrong about that man and love him more if we win the Superbowl.

brad
01-29-2012, 10:14 AM
I know I do my fair share of criticizing Gilbride when watching the games on TV.* As long as the Giant players believe in him, and he is really the one to get credit, then I'll shut up.* All I know, and I think every Giant fan will agree with me, is when I see Eli in the shotgun and a back next to him, more times than not, it is that damn shotgun draw....whoever makes the decision to run that play goes to the well way too many times!</P>


And I also agree that I have more faith in our ability to get a first down on 3rd and 5+ rather than 2 or 1 yards</P>

That same shotgun draw has worked SO many times this year. How many 2 point converts have we got with that? do you think teams will respect our run game at all when we line up in the shotgun? its about keeping the defense honest...is that hard to understand?

they play calling with 1 yard to go is fine. Its not Gilbrides fault our O line cant pass protect or run block..

Actually, that would be Gilbrides fault... if our O-line can't block then he should change up personnel or call a different play that will work. If you know they can't do it, then he as a paid professional should know it as well. His job is to find the plays that will work with the people he can put on the field. You can blame players for not executing, but ultimately that is his fault for putting guys out there that aren't executing or calling plays they can't execute.

I am not a big fan of the option routes, for many of the reasons already said. If the WR and QB aren't on the same page, the explosiveness suddenly becomes a lot of 3 and outs, frustration builds and you have players starting to try to force things.

That being said, when it does work, it is a thing of beauty. There are pros and cons to any offensive scheme, for example the GB offense is a machine much like the great SF offenses of the 90's. But, like we saw, if you can disrupt the timing you can make what is regarded as one of the most prolific offenses in football today look very average. So... while I am not a huge fan of this offensive scheme, you can't argue it's success for this team. We are in the Super Bowl again for the second time in 4 years! And this time, the offense was the primary reason for that.

gmen0820
01-29-2012, 01:18 PM
So many geniuses around here with such clever reasoning why Kevin is no good. He's been allowed to be called names here all season as well.

And even now, the O.C. with the offense that is the envy of most NFL owners...but it's not enough for some. And no matter what he does, it will never be because he failed to convert on this play or that one.

The problem with a replacement is that he would fail on a number of the other plays in a game that succeed under Gilbride and which critics simply take for granted. Plus, you never hear a critic distinguish if/when the play call itself or execution could have been Eli's fault and not Kevin's...or simply the opposition making a play...or another player breaking down in execution.

The problem with most of the critics, though is that they couldn't distinguish* a game film from an ESPN talk show.
+1

Great post people on the board love harping on GIlbride for no reason. I've been saying the whole year that he is a great OC. Its funny how the Gilbride haters have magically disappeared..You think they've disappeared? I think they don't have much to complain about now, a couple bad plays in the SB and we will be "winning in spite of him" or losing because of him.

NYG4ME
01-29-2012, 01:59 PM
I don't think the knock on KG has ever been his ability to teach or coach the offense, I feel like his biggest knock is 3rd down play selection, particularly the use of jacobs/bradshaw on 3rd and shorts. being predictable at times, perhaps to conservative? Ive always liked the way he's called games for us. I feel like TC and more importantly Eli like his game plans and his system, as long as we win fans should be more than happy.

RoanokeFan
01-29-2012, 03:28 PM
KG teacher,the Giants and there fan's don't know how lucky we have been to have him and TC!!

What matters is that the players know and appreciate the coaching staff. CLEARLY, they do!

RoanokeFan
01-29-2012, 03:33 PM
i ate my crow on gilbride lets see how he attacks the pats and i will never doubt him again if its a great called game but bad execution. i just hate the draws out of the shotgun especially when the passing game hasn't even been established yet


We've seen how "he attacks the Pats" more than once now. Any complaints on the results?

Breezely
01-29-2012, 03:50 PM
I heard something very interesting on one of the sports channels. It was stated that Gilbride's success has also been detrimental to his career. The person went on to say that, teams have wanted to pursue Gilbride for a head coaching job but was not willing to wait for the end of the Superbowl. The person also stated that the same has happened during the last Superbowl run.

AntB
01-29-2012, 03:54 PM
Adding the left handed pass was ingenious.

rainierjef
01-29-2012, 04:09 PM
i ate my crow on gilbride lets see how he attacks the pats and i will never doubt him again if its a great called game but bad execution. i just hate the draws out of the shotgun especially when the passing game hasn't even been established yet


We've seen how "he attacks the Pats" more than once now. Any complaints on the results?


none so far, i just want to win and im just worried he the running game won't get established... im nervous dangit lol

bansaw
01-29-2012, 04:21 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_16noOQI-C9g/STRLg1k-AHI/AAAAAAAAC9g/bNqz9Gch90s/s320/button.jpg

Killa4luv
01-30-2012, 10:43 AM
Such an underrated coordinator. I had a huge post about the type of offense Gilbride runs which I can't find. Simply put, when the receivers and QB are on the same page, with all the option routes (which was a dirty word earlier in the year) the offense is almost unstoppable.

Watch SoundFX on www.nfl.com, Carlos Rogers, one of the BEST corners this year (on the Niners), Carlos Rogers was saying of Victor Cruz, something along the lines of "I can't stop him, I run inside he runs outside". I think film study is what sets Nicks and Cruz apart from the mighty talented Manningham. That's why a meticulous player like Steve Smith as even Plax would be a great addition to our offense.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/09000d5d8265c557/Sound-FX-Giants-vs-49ers-first-half

at the 2:00 mark i think is where they Show Cruz doing his thing. at around 2:20 Carlos Rogers says: I can't cover no option route all day. I go inside, he goes outside.

lol. I love this ish.

Drez
01-30-2012, 11:45 AM
they play calling with 1 yard to go is fine. Its not Gilbrides fault our O line cant pass protect or run block..</P>


Yup, 99 times out of 100 if you fail to convert on 1 yard situations, it's execution not playcalling.</P>

Drez
01-30-2012, 11:53 AM
Actually, that would be Gilbrides fault... if our O-line can't block then he should change up personnel or call a different play that will work. If you know they can't do it, then he as a paid professional should know it as well. His job is to find the plays that will work with the people he can put on the field. You can blame players for not executing, but ultimately that is his fault for putting guys out there that aren't executing or calling plays they can't execute. </P>


That is some of the most ridiculous drivel I've ever heard in my entire life.</P>


Actually, it's Jerry Reese's job to make sure we have the proper personnel. KG can only do so much with what we have on the roster. Considering we've had issues in short yardage situations over the past several years regardless of what personnel is in there, what exactly do you want him to do? Strap on pads and play left guard? Again, he can only do so much with what he has. He doesn't say who makes the roster.</P>


Do you really think KG is sitting there, looking at his play sheet, saying to himself, "Hehehe, I don't think these guys can pull this play off, but what the hell, I'm going to call it anyway!!"</P>


</P>

T-Murda84
01-30-2012, 03:13 PM
Yes u are damn right its Jerry Reese's job to make sure we have the proper personnel. This offensive line has been struggling and for KG to have a healthy balance of run/pass shows that he can be unpredictable. We won are division , because we do have the best coaching staff in the division. Look at Andy Reid...who has a great Oline and Lesean Mccoy and still he chooses to pass 70% of the time. Look at the Cowboys offensive guru Jason Garrett LOL He froze his own kicker and has the most conservation offense I ever seen. Shanahan lol what a joke.

Look at those teams and look at us. Look at how our offseason went and look at how these coaches made these players come together as a team.

TrueBlue@NYC
01-30-2012, 03:57 PM
I've been saying that KG is one of the top OC's in the league for a couple of seasons' now. I've got some issues with some of his schemes in certain situations, but the truth is that the same could be said of every offensive coordinator. </P>


Most of the things people have against KG are simply blind hatred. They say the offense is too predictable, yet too complicated b/c of all the option routes, not realizing that's a contradicting statement. </P>


It's the first time the Giants have had a truly unique offensive attack in a very long time, but too many fans want to run him out of town b/c of the shotgun draw play that's actually a QB read, not called from the sidelines. </P>

Out of Exile
01-30-2012, 04:35 PM
I always liked KG. Sometimes he can be predictable (shotgun/running back draw on 3rd down) but beyond that and some other miscues, he's been awesome. Haters need to stop, because they make themselves look dumb.