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Giants10Joe
01-31-2012, 06:53 PM
Today Trent Dilfer wrote an article on ESPN ranking the top 40 QBs in the league. However, you need to pay for ESPN Insider to read it, which I do not have. I found a website where someone listed Dilfer's categories, but not his explanations. Apparently, he put Eli in the "Eli Zone" with no other QBs, a step below "Hall of Fame", but a step above "A Ring Away". Can someone who paid for Insider please share his rationale and explain what the Eli Zone is?

Also, for the record, here's the list from the other website. I don't know how well it matches Dilfer's list. I think it's pretty accurate, except I would move Romo and Flacco down a category. I would also move Rodgers and Roethlisberger into the Eli Zone. Rodgers because he is too young. If he suffered a career ending injury the first game next year, I don't think he makes the Hall of Fame. If he continues playing at the level he has been for another 5-7 years, he makes it. Roethlisberger because I think Eli and Rivers are both better but he has been to more Super Bowls then either of them.

Hall of Fame Level:

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Ben Roethlisberger



The Eli Zone:

Eli Manning



A Ring Away:

Phillip Rivers

Tony Romo

Matt Ryan

Joe Flacco

Matthew Stafford

Jay Cutler

Matt Schaub



Mostly Good:

Cam Newton

Michael Vick

Andy Dalton

Josh Freeman

Carson Palmer

Matt Hasselbeck

Alex Smith



Could Go Either Way:

Mark Sanchez

Sam Bradford

Kevin Kolb

Matt Cassell

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Kyle Orton

Matt Moore



Short Leash:

Tim Tebow

Blaine Gabbert

Colt McCoy

Christian Ponder

Rex Grossman

Tavaris Jackson

Curtis Painter

John Beck



Intriguing Wild Cards:

Matt Flynn

Jake Locker

TJ Yates

John Skelton

Brian Hoyer

Giants10Joe
01-31-2012, 07:00 PM
I'm not asking anyone to copy and paste the whole article. That wouldn't be right since you paid for it and I didn't. Just the paragraph about Eli please.

THE_New_York_Giants
01-31-2012, 07:02 PM
Dilfer is an idiot.
Everything he says is usually bogus.

calzonesays
01-31-2012, 07:05 PM
If Dilfer still played today he would be in the "Intriguing Wild Card" tier. And that's after the Ravens defense carried him to a ring.

DragonSoul
01-31-2012, 07:06 PM
This is so silly. So nearly all the QBS have a chance to make it to the HOF lol

Hall of Fame Level:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers - Doesn't Belong yet - Needs time.
Ben Roethlisberger - Doesn't Belong - maybe if he wins another 1-2 rings or is game improves. Just do not see it with him. Have you seen his SB numbers?

The Eli Zone:
Eli Manning - Even if Eli never wins another ring, if he continues what he has been doing, or even improves he is in. If he wins another ring he still needs to do it for a bit longer. I feel Rodgers and Eli are near the same situation. Rodgers is getting more Credit then Eli, but Eli is starting to really be talked about, especially after the way the season came to be, and how he has carried the team.

A Ring Away:
Phillip Rivers - Sorry he needs more. Did you see this year?
Tony Romo - Sorry needs more then even Rivers. At least Rivers made it to some playoffs. But Romos tag is a choker.

Everyone else is no where near that discussion as of yet. Not saying it cannot happen for some of the other guys mentioned.
Matt Ryan -
Joe Flacco
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub

giantsfan420
01-31-2012, 07:29 PM
dilfer isnt saying those guys are guaranteed to make the HOF. he's saying that there on track for the HOF.
Eli should be in the HOF class, but I like the ELi zone which I take it to mean, Elite QB who needs to do a few things, like win this sunday, or have another year or two before he's HOF level.

Just bc Ben and Rodgers are in that HOF level doesnt mean they get there, it just means they are on the path to do so. also, keep in mind this is his opinion. i've heard him say their is no doubt eli is an elite qb. but he may need to do that one or two more seasons if he never wins another ring. I find this to be about right except the argument could be made Eli should be above Ben, although he does have 2 SB rings and most every QB with 2 or more SB rings has made it to the hall (if the qb was the big part they made it) which makes bens ranking a lil incorrect bc one of his SB rings was done despite him not bc of him.

i saw dilfer do a segment where he analyzed a ton of eli's passes and he said he was playing at the highest possible level of a qb. also vs SF, he said that the qbr was a joke and that was one of the best games he's ever seen a qb play.

i like this list, i feel it fits. dilfer does a ton of hw on qb play. i'd put Eli above Ben easily but I can see his argument, and i'd also say eli could be above rodgers but thats a hard argument to win.

giantsfan420
01-31-2012, 07:32 PM
This is so silly. So nearly all the QBS have a chance to make it to the HOF lol

Hall of Fame Level:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers - Doesn't Belong yet - Needs time.
Ben Roethlisberger - Doesn't Belong - maybe if he wins another 1-2 rings or is game improves. Just do not see it with him. Have you seen his SB numbers?

The Eli Zone:
Eli Manning - Even if Eli never wins another ring, if he continues what he has been doing, or even improves he is in. If he wins another ring he still needs to do it for a bit longer. I feel Rodgers and Eli are near the same situation. Rodgers is getting more Credit then Eli, but Eli is starting to really be talked about, especially after the way the season came to be, and how he has carried the team.

A Ring Away:
Phillip Rivers - Sorry he needs more. Did you see this year?
Tony Romo - Sorry needs more then even Rivers. At least Rivers made it to some playoffs. But Romos tag is a choker.

Everyone else is no where near that discussion as of yet. Not saying it cannot happen for some of the other guys mentioned.
Matt Ryan -
Joe Flacco
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub

again he's saying HOF Level meaning the current level of play could land them in the HOF. a ring away puts them in the eli zone, not HOF. Everyone else means they play better they get into a ring away category. He's basically saying if eli gets the SB and has a few more seasons around the level of play from this season, eli is a hof qb and i agree.

edit-and ben has made it to three SBs, thats damn impressive. also has a unique, kind of revolutionary type qb play.

NYBlue10
01-31-2012, 07:36 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head.

giantsfan420
01-31-2012, 07:37 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head.

i actually think in terms of studying qb play, dilfer is one of if not the best analyst. he literally tracks every throw for a season for the qbs.

and he's also said some of the throws elis made this season are as good as a qb can make the throw. he showed several passes elis made, like the one to cruz vs SF where his platform was way off for delivering the pass and he threw cruz open off of tight coverage and cruz made that diving catch. he also showcased elis passes vs dallas in dallas and in ny where he said eli is playing at as high a level a qb can play.

stormblue
01-31-2012, 07:38 PM
Dilfer is the ONLY QB to ever beat us in a SB.

and he kicked our assbucket.
it's not like it was a 10 to 3 defensive battle.
he rolled us up.

bflo23
01-31-2012, 07:39 PM
If Eli wins this Super Bowl, he has to surpass Ben Rothlesberger in the rankings and "on the road to SB". Eli has more passing yards, more TD passes and was much better in the playoffs.

As for Rodgers, he is off to great start in his career but it is only 4 full seasons. Way too early to even consider him for the hall of fame.

Peyton, Brady, Brees are already hall of famers. I think Eli, Big Ben and Rodgers will be hall of famers when their careers are over.

giantsfan420
01-31-2012, 07:41 PM
If Eli wins this Super Bowl, he has to surpass Ben Rothlesberger in the rankings and "on the road to SB". Eli has more passing yards, more TD passes and was much better in the playoffs.

As for Rodgers, he is off to great start in his career but it is only 4 full seasons. Way too early to even consider him for the hall of fame.

Peyton, Brady, Brees are already hall of famers. I think Eli, Big Ben and Rodgers will be hall of famers when their careers are over.






again, hall of fame level doesnt mean hof qb. just if brees, rodgers, and ben can continue the success they've had in the SB. to be fair, eli has only been at an elite level for 3 or so seasons. i think this list is extremely fair. a ring away moves the qb into eli zone. the rest means they win a ring they move into a ring away, they get that they move into eli zone.

NYBlue10
01-31-2012, 07:44 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head.

i actually think in terms of studying qb play, dilfer is one of if not the best analyst. he literally tracks every throw for a season for the qbs.

and he's also said some of the throws elis made this season are as good as a qb can make the throw. he showed several passes elis made, like the one to cruz vs SF where his platform was way off for delivering the pass and he threw cruz open off of tight coverage and cruz made that diving catch. he also showcased elis passes vs dallas in dallas and in ny where he said eli is playing at as high a level a qb can play.
Yeah well Dilfer tends to blow a lot of hot air and over-sensationalize the QB position. It doesn't take a freaking rocket scientist to realize that throwing the ball off-balance accurately is very difficult to do.

lawl
01-31-2012, 07:47 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head.

I don't buy this for a second. How highly do you value steve young's opinion?

Athletic ability and professional prowess in the NFL as a player has absolutely no bearing on the work you put in as an analyst and the amount of the game you know.

lawl
01-31-2012, 07:50 PM
If Eli wins this Super Bowl, he has to surpass Ben Rothlesberger in the rankings and "on the road to SB". Eli has more passing yards, more TD passes and was much better in the playoffs.

As for Rodgers, he is off to great start in his career but it is only 4 full seasons. Way too early to even consider him for the hall of fame.

Peyton, Brady, Brees are already hall of famers. I think Eli, Big Ben and Rodgers will be hall of famers when their careers are over.






again, hall of fame level doesnt mean hof qb. just if brees, rodgers, and ben can continue the success they've had in the SB. to be fair, eli has only been at an elite level for 3 or so seasons. i think this list is extremely fair. a ring away moves the qb into eli zone. the rest means they win a ring they move into a ring away, they get that they move into eli zone.

1 season [;)]

bflo23
01-31-2012, 07:53 PM
again, hall of fame level doesnt mean hof qb. just if brees, rodgers, and ben can continue the success they've had in the SB. to be fair, eli has only been at an elite level for 3 or so seasons. i think this list is extremely fair. a ring away moves the qb into eli zone. the rest means they win a ring they move into a ring away, they get that they move into eli zone.

Do you keep Eli in the Eli Zone even if he wins 2 Super Bowls? I think he jumps into the hall of fame zone considering that he has more passing yards, more td passes and has been far more impressive than Big Ben in the playoffs (if Eli wins).

Peyton, Brady, Brees =LOCK HOFers..... Eli (if he wins 2 SBs), Big Ben, Rodgers= ON THE ROAD HOF

Brady2Gronk
01-31-2012, 07:56 PM
Dilfer was saying Aaron Rodgers was the best QB in NFL history and he was unstoppable a month ago, its hilarious how much of a bandwagoner he is, he also said it was impossible for the Patriots to make the Superbowl in Week 15.

bflo23
01-31-2012, 07:58 PM
In 2007, Eli Manning didn't have "elite stats" but who cares when he stepped it up in the playoffs and pulled off one of the great playoff runs in nfl history..... Does anybody care that he had a 74 QB rating in 2007 when he won a championship and was great in the playoffs beating garcia, romo, favre and brady?!

I would rather win a SB with a low QB rating than have a 100 QB rating and be one and done in the playoffs.

M0rbid
01-31-2012, 07:58 PM
again, hall of fame level doesnt mean hof qb. just if brees, rodgers, and ben can continue the success they've had in the SB. to be fair, eli has only been at an elite level for 3 or so seasons. i think this list is extremely fair. a ring away moves the qb into eli zone. the rest means they win a ring they move into a ring away, they get that they move into eli zone.

Do you keep Eli in the Eli Zone even if he wins 2 Super Bowls? I think he jumps into the hall of fame zone considering that he has more passing yards, more td passes and has been far more impressive than Big Ben in the playoffs (if Eli wins).

Peyton, Brady, Brees =LOCK HOFers..... Eli (if he wins 2 SBs), Big Ben, Rodgers= ON THE ROAD HOF


IMO, hall of fame QB must have least 3 SB Rings unless if you're putting up Peyton or Marino's number.

giantsfan420
01-31-2012, 08:05 PM
If Eli wins this Super Bowl, he has to surpass Ben Rothlesberger in the rankings and "on the road to SB". Eli has more passing yards, more TD passes and was much better in the playoffs.

As for Rodgers, he is off to great start in his career but it is only 4 full seasons. Way too early to even consider him for the hall of fame.

Peyton, Brady, Brees are already hall of famers. I think Eli, Big Ben and Rodgers will be hall of famers when their careers are over.






again, hall of fame level doesnt mean hof qb. just if brees, rodgers, and ben can continue the success they've had in the SB. to be fair, eli has only been at an elite level for 3 or so seasons. i think this list is extremely fair. a ring away moves the qb into eli zone. the rest means they win a ring they move into a ring away, they get that they move into eli zone.

1 season [;)]

haha, ur one of the best posters around here. if ur being serious, i can respect your stance. i just feel 08, 09, and this year eli played at an elite level. 08 he didnt have huge numbers bc he doesnt care for stats, he knew we had a strong run game and let them do their work and if it didnt work he took over passing 10 ints nearly 4000 yards and 28 tds...thats an elite season in my book, but lets not forget he qbd us to victories over a ton of elite teams, pitt in pitt, balt, etc. etc. etc. 2009, made the probowl, 14 ints nearly 30 tds, 4000 yards, thats elite in my book. and then this season,

i can respect your opinion if u feel 08 and 09 were not elite seasons but i just feel what he did, how he did it, if plex just didnt shoot himself in the leg, we woulda won the SB that year too imo and it'd be impossible to say he didnt have an elite season.

but i still got a ton of respect for you even tho we've had our debates over eli in the past. u've always had my back and tried to back me when i was being attack. ur the man lawl.

its funny, some of the posters i would act like a jerk to, u YA RFand a few others, i have a world of respect for now.

NYDestroyer
01-31-2012, 08:05 PM
I made the same top five list and you guys disagree with the last man on the list. What you guys fail to realize is that Big Ben has been playing on a high level a lot longer the Eli Manning and he has two rings. They were both drafted on the same day and many would argue that it wasn't until this year that Eli lived up to his number one draft pick. I am not a HOMER guys I am a REALIST.

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Ben Roethlisberger

I agree with this list more than my first list which had Brady number 3 and Rodger 2. Brady has 3 rings. Peyton #1 because he can carry a bad team to the playoffs and can even win the Superbowl if his team can play some defense.

Giants10Joe
01-31-2012, 08:07 PM
again, hall of fame level doesnt mean hof qb. just if brees, rodgers, and ben can continue the success they've had in the SB. to be fair, eli has only been at an elite level for 3 or so seasons. i think this list is extremely fair. a ring away moves the qb into eli zone. the rest means they win a ring they move into a ring away, they get that they move into eli zone.

Do you keep Eli in the Eli Zone even if he wins 2 Super Bowls? I think he jumps into the hall of fame zone considering that he has more passing yards, more td passes and has been far more impressive than Big Ben in the playoffs (if Eli wins).

Peyton, Brady, Brees =LOCK HOFers..... Eli (if he wins 2 SBs), Big Ben, Rodgers= ON THE ROAD HOF


IMO, hall of fame QB must have least 3 SB Rings unless if you're putting up Peyton or Marino's number.



If 3 rings was the criteria, the HOF QBs would be Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, and Tom Brady, plus whatever guys you thought were transcendent in the regular season like Marino and Peyton. That would probably leave out a lot of very worthy candidates. 2 seems like a much better number. That would then include Elway, Roethlisberger, Bob Griese, Staubach, Starr, and Plunkett (all of whom are either active or in the Hall except Plunkett). Although, obviously rings alone isn't enough.

M0rbid
01-31-2012, 08:07 PM
Peyton and Brady are locks for HOF.

Eli and Brees must win 2 and Ben must win 1 more for HOF.

giantsfan420
01-31-2012, 08:08 PM
*again, hall of fame level doesnt mean hof qb. just if brees, rodgers, and ben can continue the success they've had in the SB. to be fair, eli has only been at an elite level for 3 or so seasons. i think this list is extremely fair. a ring away moves the qb into eli zone. the rest means they win a ring they move into a ring away, they get that they move into eli zone.

Do you keep Eli in the Eli Zone even if he wins 2 Super Bowls? I think he jumps into the hall of fame zone considering that he has more passing yards, more td passes and has been far more impressive than Big Ben in the playoffs (if Eli wins).

Peyton, Brady, Brees =LOCK HOFers..... Eli (if he wins 2 SBs), Big Ben, Rodgers= ON THE ROAD HOF


no i believe dilfer meant that if eli won this SB he moves up to HOF level of play or if has a few more seasons of his play in 08 09 and '11.

i personally believe eli will be voted in the HOF even if he doesnt win another SB, and i expect him to win 2-3 more. its just dilfers opinion and i believe it to be spot on.

Axels15
01-31-2012, 08:10 PM
This is so silly. So nearly all the QBS have a chance to make it to the HOF lol

Hall of Fame Level:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers - Doesn't Belong yet - Needs time.
Ben Roethlisberger - Doesn't Belong - maybe if he wins another 1-2 rings or is game improves. Just do not see it with him. Have you seen his SB numbers?

The Eli Zone:
Eli Manning - Even if Eli never wins another ring, if he continues what he has been doing, or even improves he is in. If he wins another ring he still needs to do it for a bit longer. I feel Rodgers and Eli are near the same situation. Rodgers is getting more Credit then Eli, but Eli is starting to really be talked about, especially after the way the season came to be, and how he has carried the team.

A Ring Away:
Phillip Rivers - Sorry he needs more. Did you see this year?
Tony Romo - Sorry needs more then even Rivers. At least Rivers made it to some playoffs. But Romos tag is a choker.

Everyone else is no where near that discussion as of yet. Not saying it cannot happen for some of the other guys mentioned.
Matt Ryan -
Joe Flacco
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub

Totally disagree with you on Big Ben. His first SB numbers are underwhelming, but otherwise...

The guy is walking into the Hall of Fame.

Another 1-2 rings? LOL

giantsfan420
01-31-2012, 08:10 PM
I made the same top five list* and you guys disagree with the last man on the list. What you guys fail to realize is that Big Ben has been playing on a high level a lot longer the Eli Manning and he has two rings. They were both drafted on the same day and many would argue that it wasn't until this year that Eli lived up to his number one draft pick. I am not a HOMER guys I am a REALIST.

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Ben Roethlisberger

I agree with this list more than my first list which had Brady number 3 and Rodger 2. Brady has 3 rings. Peyton #1 because he can carry a bad team to the playoffs and can even win the Superbowl if his team can play some defense.


theres no doubt ben had more success earlier. but eli has been a better qb clearly in 08 09 and this season. just my .2 i can see where ur coming from. and ben as plateaued he aint getting better whereas eli can even play better from this season

bflo23
01-31-2012, 08:13 PM
I made the same top five list and you guys disagree with the last man on the list. What you guys fail to realize is that Big Ben has been playing on a high level a lot longer the Eli Manning and he has two rings. They were both drafted on the same day and many would argue that it wasn't until this year that Eli lived up to his number one draft pick. I am not a HOMER guys I am a REALIST.

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Ben Roethlisberger

I agree with this list more than my first list which had Brady number 3 and Rodger 2. Brady has 3 rings. Peyton #1 because he can carry a bad team to the playoffs and can even win the Superbowl if his team can play some defense.


Big Ben has better career QB rating but Eli has more passing yards and more TDs..... If Eli wins this Super Bowl, you have to say that Eli has been far better in the playoffs. Big Ben had the worst performance in Super Bowl history for a winning QB.... A 20 QB rating, 9 completions, 2 INTs and 120 passing yards vs the Seahawks. And Big Ben has 20 TD/17 INTs in the playoffs.... Does that mean anything?

Giants10Joe
01-31-2012, 08:13 PM
Peyton and Brady are locks for HOF.

Eli and Brees must win 2 and Ben must win 1 more for HOF.


I disagree about Eli, Brees, and Ben. If Eli wins this weekend, he needs 3-4 more good season to get in. If he loses he needs 5-7 more good seasons. If Brees retires today, I think he's probably in, but I would say he needs 3-4 more good seasons and 0 more rings. Roethlisberger already has 2 rings so I think he needs 3-4 more good seasons and 0 more rings. Rodgers has only been a starter for 4 seasons so if he keeps up his level of play but doesn't win any more Super Bowls, he needs at 6-8 more good seasons. Obviously, the more rings you win, the fewer good seasons you need.

Voldamort
01-31-2012, 08:14 PM
Dilfer really,I wish Kerry had played like he did againist the Vikings we would never have to listen to this fool!

bflo23
01-31-2012, 08:16 PM
Peyton and Brady are locks for HOF.

Eli and Brees must win 2 and Ben must win 1 more for HOF.


Brees has nearly 300 career TD passes. He will have more TD passes than Elway next season.

lawl
01-31-2012, 08:20 PM
If Eli wins this Super Bowl, he has to surpass Ben Rothlesberger in the rankings and "on the road to SB". Eli has more passing yards, more TD passes and was much better in the playoffs.

As for Rodgers, he is off to great start in his career but it is only 4 full seasons. Way too early to even consider him for the hall of fame.

Peyton, Brady, Brees are already hall of famers. I think Eli, Big Ben and Rodgers will be hall of famers when their careers are over.






again, hall of fame level doesnt mean hof qb. just if brees, rodgers, and ben can continue the success they've had in the SB. to be fair, eli has only been at an elite level for 3 or so seasons. i think this list is extremely fair. a ring away moves the qb into eli zone. the rest means they win a ring they move into a ring away, they get that they move into eli zone.

1 season [;)]

haha, ur one of the best posters around here. if ur being serious, i can respect your stance. i just feel 08, 09, and this year eli played at an elite level. 08 he didnt have huge numbers bc he doesnt care for stats, he knew we had a strong run game and let them do their work and if it didnt work he took over passing 10 ints nearly 4000 yards and 28 tds...thats an elite season in my book, but lets not forget he qbd us to victories over a ton of elite teams, pitt in pitt, balt, etc. etc. etc. 2009, made the probowl, 14 ints nearly 30 tds, 4000 yards, thats elite in my book. and then this season,

i can respect your opinion if u feel 08 and 09 were not elite seasons but i just feel what he did, how he did it, if plex just didnt shoot himself in the leg, we woulda won the SB that year too imo and it'd be impossible to say he didnt have an elite season.

but i still got a ton of respect for you even tho we've had our debates over eli in the past. u've always had my back and tried to back me when i was being attack. ur the man lawl.

its funny, some of the posters i would act like a jerk to, u YA RFand a few others, i have a world of respect for now.

Was more joking than anything.

I think his 09 season and this season were awesome, but even in both of these seasons he was outperformed by a few other qbs, probably moreso in 09 than '11. Not everyone can be elite ya know what I mean?

His '08 was certainly limited statistically because of the dominance of the run game and defense, but he was awful in the playoff game that year. Statistical years like Eli had in 08 are a dime a dozen nowadays and a guy that was in a very similar situation this year as Eli was in 08 was Joe flacco or another example would be Matt cassel's year last year with the chiefs. I would by no means consider those to be great or elite or whatever you want to call it seasons.

It's just a matter of answering the question of where is the line drawn? What is elite? Top 5? Top 3? Top 7?

Anyway, it's a conversation we've had one too many times lol.

bflo23
01-31-2012, 08:21 PM
If Eli has around 30 TD seasons just for the next 3 seasons, he will crack into the top 10 QBs in TD passes. And with Eli showing his ability to stay healthy, I see more than 3 seasons from him. He is only like 100 TD passes away from Elway and Eli is only 31 years old.

giantsfan420
01-31-2012, 08:25 PM
If Eli has around 30 TD seasons just for the next 3 seasons, he will crack into the top 10 QBs in TD passes. And with Eli showing his ability to stay healthy, I see more than 3 seasons from him. He is only like 100 TD passes away from Elway and Eli is only 31 years old.


i personally believe he'll be a lock. simms barely hasnt gotten in, and eli will have shattered all of his passing numbers.

there are only 44 HOF voters tho soo u never know. he wins this sunday, has 3 more seasons at this level, hes a first ballot imo. no more rings but 5-6 more years of this level of play, he's a HOF no doubt.

the voters also place importance on playing for NY as it is the hardest media center to play sports in the world.
and lawl, that we have bud, that we have. one of the reasons i respect u so dam much is that even tho we differ on opinions, u've never mocked me and made rude statements towards me. some posters who share ur opinion have said im not a giants fan but an eli fan, etc etc. but yeah bud, we've been down this road too many times lol

lawl
01-31-2012, 08:26 PM
I made the same top five list* and you guys disagree with the last man on the list. What you guys fail to realize is that Big Ben has been playing on a high level a lot longer the Eli Manning and he has two rings. They were both drafted on the same day and many would argue that it wasn't until this year that Eli lived up to his number one draft pick. I am not a HOMER guys I am a REALIST.

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Ben Roethlisberger

I agree with this list more than my first list which had Brady number 3 and Rodger 2. Brady has 3 rings. Peyton #1 because he can carry a bad team to the playoffs and can even win the Superbowl if his team can play some defense.


theres no doubt ben had more success earlier. but eli has been a better qb clearly in 08 09 and this season. just my .2 i can see where ur coming from. and ben as plateaued he aint getting better whereas eli can even play better from this season

Steelers did win the super bowl the 08 year though.

Careerwise, at this point, I think it's a toss up between who has been the better QB. However, I do believe Eli's play from here on out will separate the two.

lawl
01-31-2012, 08:30 PM
You guys also have to realize that all these young kids are going to be building up some damn impressive numbers that will make guys like Eli's and ben's not look as good.

Rodgers, cam, dalton, stafford flacco Ryan have all started their careers hot. Then you have Bradford who has looked decent and STL will probably be drafting justin Blackmon. Freeman has shown potential as well.. The league is changing quickly folks.

Easy-Duz-It
01-31-2012, 08:34 PM
i don't even need an explanation. trent dilfer is such a ****** bag. a self proclaimed nerd of the game who is blinded by his man-crushes on certain players. aaron rodgers was his guy this year.

the eli zone? what a freaking joke. i'm so sick of people judging eli in such a biased manner. i really can't figure out what he can do to prove to people that he is an elite hall of fame caliber qb.

eli manning has been around longer and proven much more than aaron rodgers has to this point in his career. and it's not even close. is anyone not drinking the kool aid on rodgers? his numbers weren't even half as good last year as what eli did this year...and the way he got into the super bowl was very similar. this year was rodgers breakout year statistically and he was one and done in the playoffs with a bad performance. eli has been playing great since 2006 in my opinion. rodgers has only been a starter for a few years and had one elite season with a bad ending, and one good season with an elite ending. for some reason eli needs to win two super bowls to convince some people.

i could go on all day...but it's really ridiculous.

i guess what i'm trying to say is screw trent dilfer, and screw anyone else who never believed in eli and want to suck up now. people bashing him for facial expressions. unbelievable.

JJC7301
01-31-2012, 08:36 PM
The goal post is always moved on Eli. I don't even think experts, including Dilfer who I like, realize what a bunch of asses they sound like.

Spizi
01-31-2012, 08:50 PM
eli is elite

NYBlue10
01-31-2012, 08:51 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head.

I don't buy this for a second. How highly do you value steve young's opinion?

Athletic ability and professional prowess in the NFL as a player has absolutely no bearing on the work you put in as an analyst and the amount of the game you know.
It kind of does have some bearing because if you can't do it as a player, then how the hell do you evaluate something you have no ability to do it yourself?

Steve Young is a whole another matter as he's a ******bag and way too opinionated to be even objective on what he says.

If you want to hear something remotely valid out of a QB on a QB, I'd rather listen to Troy Aikman or Phil Simms.

bflo23
01-31-2012, 08:54 PM
You guys also have to realize that all these young kids are going to be building up some damn impressive numbers that will make guys like Eli's and ben's not look as good.

Rodgers, cam, dalton, stafford flacco Ryan have all started their careers hot. Then you have Bradford who has looked decent and STL will probably be drafting justin Blackmon. Freeman has shown potential as well.. The league is changing quickly folks.

Rodgers? OK. He had a great 4 seasons and if he continues he looks like he can make the hall of fame. You can't put Cam, Dalton, Stafford, Flacco as "great" because they had a decent start. Cam Newton had ok start but he averaged 250 passing yards and had only 21 TDs and 17 INTs. And Andy Dalton had 20 TDs and had 212 passing yards per game. And Matthew Stafford looked good this season but lets see him stay healthy. He already missed 19 games in his 3 year career. Flacco? Wasn't there plenty of analysts and his own teammates questioning his ability to win? And Flacco is getting like 200 passing yards per game and 20 TD per season. They aren't blowing away Eli and Big Ben's stats.

Surpassing Eli and Big Ben? They have a long way to go.

Drez
01-31-2012, 08:57 PM
This is so silly. So nearly all the QBS have a chance to make it to the HOF lol Hall of Fame Level: Peyton Manning Tom Brady Drew Brees Aaron Rodgers - Doesn't Belong yet - Needs time. Ben Roethlisberger - Doesn't Belong - maybe if he wins another 1-2 rings or is game improves. Just do not see it with him. Have you seen his SB numbers? The Eli Zone: Eli Manning - Even if Eli never wins another ring, if he continues what he has been doing, or even improves he is in. If he wins another ring he still needs to do it for a bit longer. I feel Rodgers and Eli are near the same situation. Rodgers is getting more Credit then Eli, but Eli is starting to really be talked about, especially after the way the season came to be, and how he has carried the team. A Ring Away: Phillip Rivers - Sorry he needs more. Did you see this year? Tony Romo - Sorry needs more then even Rivers. At least Rivers made it to some playoffs. But Romos tag is a choker. Everyone else is no where near that discussion as of yet. Not saying it cannot happen for some of the other guys mentioned. Matt Ryan - Joe Flacco Matthew Stafford Jay Cutler Matt Schaub Totally disagree with you on Big Ben. His first SB numbers are underwhelming, but otherwise... The guy is walking into the Hall of Fame. Another 1-2 rings? LOL</P>


Roethlisberger is probably the most overrated QB in the NFL. He's absolutely sucked in 2 of his SBs. Hell, I think he only has 2 or 3 seasons where he's thrown for more than 20 tds. He's able to do well because he's big and can shed sacks until his receivers are open.</P>


And the Steelers have missed the playoffs whenever his defensehas beenout of the top 5-10.</P>

jomo
01-31-2012, 08:59 PM
Today Trent Dilfer wrote an article on ESPN ranking the top 40 QBs in the league. However, you need to pay for ESPN Insider to read it, which I do not have. I found a website where someone listed Dilfer's categories, but not his explanations. Apparently, he put Eli in the "Eli Zone" with no other QBs, a step below "Hall of Fame", but a step above "A Ring Away". Can someone who paid for Insider please share his rationale and explain what the Eli Zone is?

Also, for the record, here's the list from the other website. I don't know how well it matches Dilfer's list. I think it's pretty accurate, except I would move Romo and Flacco down a category. I would also move Rodgers and Roethlisberger into the Eli Zone. Rodgers because he is too young. If he suffered a career ending injury the first game next year, I don't think he makes the Hall of Fame. If he continues playing at the level he has been for another 5-7 years, he makes it. Roethlisberger because I think Eli and Rivers are both better but he has been to more Super Bowls then either of them.

Hall of Fame Level:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger

The Eli Zone:
Eli Manning

A Ring Away:
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub

Mostly Good:
Cam Newton
Michael Vick
Andy Dalton
Josh Freeman
Carson Palmer
Matt Hasselbeck
Alex Smith

Could Go Either Way:
Mark Sanchez
Sam Bradford
Kevin Kolb
Matt Cassell
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Kyle Orton
Matt Moore

Short Leash:
Tim Tebow
Blaine Gabbert
Colt McCoy
Christian Ponder
Rex Grossman
Tavaris Jackson
Curtis Painter
John Beck

Intriguing Wild Cards:
Matt Flynn
Jake Locker
TJ Yates
John Skelton
Brian Hoyer
Jay Cutler's a ring away from Hall of Fame level?.............and we are supposed to take Dilfer seriously??

Drez
01-31-2012, 09:11 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head. I don't buy this for a second. How highly do you value steve young's opinion? Athletic ability and professional prowess in the NFL as a player has absolutely no bearing on the work you put in as an analyst and the amount of the game you know. It kind of does have some bearing because if you can't do it as a player, then how the hell do you evaluate something you have no ability to do it yourself? Steve Young is a whole another matter as he's a ******bag and way too opinionated to be even objective on what he says. If you want to hear something remotely valid out of a QB on a QB, I'd rather listen to Troy Aikman or Phil Simms.</P>


That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. </P>


Jerry Reese never played pro football, much less played at a high level in the NFL or made the HoF, but does that make him incapable of evaluating and ranking talent?</P>


How about TC? Or any other coach, scout, or FO personnel member that wasn't a HoFer? Hell, our current QB coach never played QB at any level and was a WR coach before moving over. If he's never played QB at a HoF level, how can he analyze film and evaluate Eli's performance?</P>


Or to make your point even more invalid, the fact that there isn't a single HoFer that VOTES players into the HoF.</P>


</P>

NYBlue10
01-31-2012, 09:24 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head. I don't buy this for a second. How highly do you value steve young's opinion? Athletic ability and professional prowess in the NFL as a player has absolutely no bearing on the work you put in as an analyst and the amount of the game you know. It kind of does have some bearing because if you can't do it as a player, then how the hell do you evaluate something you have no ability to do it yourself? Steve Young is a whole another matter as he's a ******bag and way too opinionated to be even objective on what he says. If you want to hear something remotely valid out of a QB on a QB, I'd rather listen to Troy Aikman or Phil Simms.</P>


That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. </P>


Jerry Reese never played pro football, much less played at a high level in the NFL or made the HoF, but does that make him incapable of evaluating and ranking talent?</P>


How about TC? Or any other coach, scout, or FO personnel member that wasn't a HoFer? Hell, our current QB coach never played QB at any level and was a WR coach before moving over. If he's never played QB at a HoF level, how can he analyze film and evaluate Eli's performance?</P>


Or to make your point even more invalid, the fact that there isn't a single HoFer that VOTES players into the HoF.</P>


*</P>
We are talking about two different things here, what you are talking about is having an eye for spotting talent, what I'm talking about is actual experience that validates an opinion. For example, if you were never a pitcher, then can you even describe how your arm feels like after throwing the baseball 100 times in 9 innings? Do you have the expertise to give an advice on it in public? NO.

DragonSoul
01-31-2012, 09:31 PM
This is so silly. So nearly all the QBS have a chance to make it to the HOF lol

Hall of Fame Level:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers - Doesn't Belong yet - Needs time.
Ben Roethlisberger - Doesn't Belong - maybe if he wins another 1-2 rings or is game improves. Just do not see it with him. Have you seen his SB numbers?

The Eli Zone:
Eli Manning - Even if Eli never wins another ring, if he continues what he has been doing, or even improves he is in. If he wins another ring he still needs to do it for a bit longer. I feel Rodgers and Eli are near the same situation. Rodgers is getting more Credit then Eli, but Eli is starting to really be talked about, especially after the way the season came to be, and how he has carried the team.

A Ring Away:
Phillip Rivers - Sorry he needs more. Did you see this year?
Tony Romo - Sorry needs more then even Rivers. At least Rivers made it to some playoffs. But Romos tag is a choker.

Everyone else is no where near that discussion as of yet. Not saying it cannot happen for some of the other guys mentioned.
Matt Ryan -
Joe Flacco
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub

Totally disagree with you on Big Ben. His first SB numbers are underwhelming, but otherwise...

The guy is walking into the Hall of Fame.

Another 1-2 rings? LOLFirst you give the guy credit 4 getting to 3 SBS he had something to do with that obviously, but look 4 the context.

The SB win vs the seagulls was given to Pitt.
1) You agree that the 1st SB he was underwhelming (pretty nice description for a crappy game)

In case you wanted to see the passing numbers vs Seattle
Passing Ben 9/21 123yds 0 td 2 ints Vs Randle El
Randle El 1/1 43yds 1 TD


2) Passing vs Cards Ben 21/30 256 1 TD 1 int
Cards defense 5th worst in the NFL that year for Points allowed (better indicator then total yards), barely behind the bottom 3.

Yards allowed the Cards were 19th overall.

3) Verse the Packers who had a good defense last year.
Passing Vs the Packers Ben 25/40 263yds 2TD 2INT

Not seeing any great SB performances there.

Drez
01-31-2012, 09:36 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head. I don't buy this for a second. How highly do you value steve young's opinion? Athletic ability and professional prowess in the NFL as a player has absolutely no bearing on the work you put in as an analyst and the amount of the game you know. It kind of does have some bearing because if you can't do it as a player, then how the hell do you evaluate something you have no ability to do it yourself? Steve Young is a whole another matter as he's a ******bag and way too opinionated to be even objective on what he says. If you want to hear something remotely valid out of a QB on a QB, I'd rather listen to Troy Aikman or Phil Simms.</P>


That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. </P>


Jerry Reese never played pro football, much less played at a high level in the NFL or made the HoF, but does that make him incapable of evaluating and ranking talent?</P>


How about TC? Or any other coach, scout, or FO personnel member that wasn't a HoFer? Hell, our current QB coach never played QB at any level and was a WR coach before moving over. If he's never played QB at a HoF level, how can he analyze film and evaluate Eli's performance?</P>


Or to make your point even more invalid, the fact that there isn't a single HoFer that VOTES players into the HoF.</P>


</P>


We are talking about two different things here, what you are talking about is having an eye for spotting talent, what I'm talking about is actual experience that validates an opinion. For example, if you were never a pitcher, then can you even describe how your arm feels like after throwing the baseball 100 times in 9 innings? Do you have the expertise to give an advice on it in public? NO.</P>


How are we talking about 2 different things? You are saying that being Dilfer hadn't played at a HoF level his opinion is invalid when discussing QB play and ranking. I then listed many other examples of people who have no experience playing at a HoF level that have to evaluate and rank talent.</P>


Your example up there isn't congruous with your intitial position or my rebuttal. Of course I wouldn't know how it feels, but if I were a biologist, doctor,or someone else reasonably well trained in physiology I could explain and give a reasonable hypothesis how it should feel given a person's rough conditioning level. That isn't nearly the same as saying that just because Dilfer didn't excel as a QB that he's incapable of studying and accurately analyzing QBs. I've never been a professional actor, so I don't know what it's like to act in a movie, but I can tell when an actor delivers a good performance. </P>


And as I said, among those who ACTUALLY VOTE players into the HoF there isn't a HoFer among them. So, does that mean that their opinion doesn't matter on who should belong in the HoF? </P>

NYBlue10
01-31-2012, 09:55 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head. I don't buy this for a second. How highly do you value steve young's opinion? Athletic ability and professional prowess in the NFL as a player has absolutely no bearing on the work you put in as an analyst and the amount of the game you know. It kind of does have some bearing because if you can't do it as a player, then how the hell do you evaluate something you have no ability to do it yourself? Steve Young is a whole another matter as he's a ******bag and way too opinionated to be even objective on what he says. If you want to hear something remotely valid out of a QB on a QB, I'd rather listen to Troy Aikman or Phil Simms.</P>


That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. </P>


Jerry Reese never played pro football, much less played at a high level in the NFL or made the HoF, but does that make him incapable of evaluating and ranking talent?</P>


How about TC? Or any other coach, scout, or FO personnel member that wasn't a HoFer? Hell, our current QB coach never played QB at any level and was a WR coach before moving over. If he's never played QB at a HoF level, how can he analyze film and evaluate Eli's performance?</P>


Or to make your point even more invalid, the fact that there isn't a single HoFer that VOTES players into the HoF.</P>


*</P>


We are talking about two different things here, what you are talking about is having an eye for spotting talent, what I'm talking about is actual experience that validates an opinion. For example, if you were never a pitcher, then can you even describe how your arm feels like after throwing the baseball 100 times in 9 innings? Do you have the expertise to give an advice on it in public? NO.</P>


How are we talking about 2 different things? You are saying that being Dilfer hadn't played at a HoF level his opinion is invalid when discussing QB play and ranking. I then listed many other examples of people who have no experience playing at a HoF level that have to evaluate and rank talent.</P>


Your example up there isn't congruous with your intitial position or my rebuttal. Of course I wouldn't know how it feels, but if I were a biologist, doctor,*or someone else reasonably well trained in physiology I could explain and give a reasonable hypothesis how it should feel given a person's rough conditioning level. That isn't nearly the same as saying that just because Dilfer didn't excel as a QB that he's incapable of studying and accurately analyzing QBs. I've never been a professional actor, so I don't know what it's like to act in a movie, but I can tell when an actor delivers a good performance. </P>


And as I said, among those who ACTUALLY VOTE players into the HoF there isn't a HoFer among them. So, does that mean that their opinion doesn't matter on who should belong in the HoF? </P>
Dilfer has no clue what he's talking about, just because he can't throw accurately on a run when he played himself, he thinks Rodgers is HOF player just because he can do things Dilfer couldn't do. Basically any QB who plays better than Dilfer, he's going to say they belong in HOF, he's just not very objective, but more than that he makes everything over-blown because he's now trying to make a living talking and he needs to make headlines.

Your acting analogy is just totally irrelevant, that's like saying Rodgers has 50 TD passes this season so he's a good QB, well it doesn't take a genius to make such an observation.

Your HOF voting criteria is the same thing, that was never my point.

gumby742
01-31-2012, 10:29 PM
This is so silly. So nearly all the QBS have a chance to make it to the HOF lol

Hall of Fame Level:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers - Doesn't Belong yet - Needs time.
Ben Roethlisberger - Doesn't Belong - maybe if he wins another 1-2 rings or is game improves. Just do not see it with him. Have you seen his SB numbers?

The Eli Zone:
Eli Manning - Even if Eli never wins another ring, if he continues what he has been doing, or even improves he is in. If he wins another ring he still needs to do it for a bit longer. I feel Rodgers and Eli are near the same situation. Rodgers is getting more Credit then Eli, but Eli is starting to really be talked about, especially after the way the season came to be, and how he has carried the team.

A Ring Away:
Phillip Rivers - Sorry he needs more. Did you see this year?
Tony Romo - Sorry needs more then even Rivers. At least Rivers made it to some playoffs. But Romos tag is a choker.

Everyone else is no where near that discussion as of yet. Not saying it cannot happen for some of the other guys mentioned.
Matt Ryan -
Joe Flacco
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub

Totally disagree with you on Big Ben. His first SB numbers are underwhelming, but otherwise...

The guy is walking into the Hall of Fame.

Another 1-2 rings? LOLFirst you give the guy credit 4 getting to 3 SBS he had something to do with that obviously, but look 4 the context.

The SB win vs the seagulls was given to Pitt.
1) You agree that the 1st SB he was underwhelming (pretty nice description for a crappy game)

In case you wanted to see the passing numbers vs Seattle
Passing Ben 9/21 123yds 0 td 2 ints Vs Randle El
Randle El 1/1 43yds 1 TD


2) Passing vs Cards Ben 21/30 256 1 TD 1 int
Cards defense 5th worst in the NFL that year for Points allowed (better indicator then total yards), barely behind the bottom 3.

Yards allowed the Cards were 19th overall.

3) Verse the Packers who had a good defense last year.
Passing Vs the Packers Ben 25/40 263yds 2TD 2INT

Not seeing any great SB performances there.

You should analyze Eli the way you analyze Ben. Surely, you have to admit your bias? Ben has Eli beat in almost every category. Harp on a couple games all you want, but fact is the year that Ben stunk it up in his first SB, he was lights out in both the regular seaso AND the playoffs.

Seriously.

bflo23
01-31-2012, 10:40 PM
You should analyze Eli the way you analyze Ben. Surely, you have to admit your bias? Ben has Eli beat in almost every category. Harp on a couple games all you want, but fact is the year that Ben stunk it up in his first SB, he was lights out in both the regular seaso AND the playoffs.

Seriously.

You are too funny but you ignore the facts that Big Ben had 20 TDs/17 INTs in playoffs and he beat the Seahawks with the worst performance ever by a winning super bowl QB... And he beat the lame Cardinals in the SB?! He played bad vs the Packers in the his super bowl loss. Not impressed at all.

You can't say that even comes close to Eli's playoff performance.

ru_gmen55
01-31-2012, 10:42 PM
How can Rodgers be "Hall of Fame" level...he's only played a few full seasons...

gumby742
01-31-2012, 10:43 PM
You should analyze Eli the way you analyze Ben. Surely, you have to admit your bias? Ben has Eli beat in almost every category. Harp on a couple games all you want, but fact is the year that Ben stunk it up in his first SB, he was lights out in both the regular seaso AND the playoffs.

Seriously.

You are too funny but you ignore the facts that Big Ben had 20 TDs/17 INTs in playoffs and he beat the Seahawks with the worst performance ever by a winning super bowl QB... And he beat the lame Cardinals in the SB?! He played bad vs the Packers in the his super bowl loss. Not impressed at all.

You can't say that even comes close to Eli's playoff performance.


lol. don't even get started on evaluating statistical between the 2 QBs. Based on their overall play throughout their entire careers, Ben blows Eli out of the water.

Evaluate a QB based on a few games? Try again.

njersey
01-31-2012, 10:46 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head.


Duh. So then what do YOUR words mean?

bflo23
01-31-2012, 10:49 PM
lol. don't even get started on evaluating statistical between the 2 QBs. Based on their overall play throughout their entire careers, Ben blows Eli out of the water.

Evaluate a QB based on a few games? Try again.

Did you know that Eli has more passing yards and more TDs in his career? And it is laughable how you believe comparing playoff games AND SUPER BOWL GAMES is just a "few games" and can't be compared? 14 playoff games by Big Ben isn't enough a sample to evaluate?! Waiting for 50 games?

bflo23
01-31-2012, 10:51 PM
You are just Patriot troll with the most ridiculous signature. So jealous.

"Eli realists criticize. Eli homers turn it into hate.
SAVE GIGGLES!!!!!!
NFL.com top 100 - NFL players are all Eli "haters" ... lol"

NYGFaninILL
02-01-2012, 02:25 AM
I love how people say Rodgers is in hall of fame already with only 3 starting seasons under his belt...

JMFP2
02-01-2012, 02:58 AM
I think the gap between Rodgers and Manning narrowed quite a bit after Eli went into his backyard and marched the Giants up and down the field at will.</P>

foosball
02-01-2012, 03:26 AM
Who cares? I don't. Eli leads the Giants to a win this Sunday, and none of it matters.

nygfanmaybe
02-01-2012, 08:28 AM
Who cares?* I don't.* Eli leads the Giants to a win this Sunday, and none of it matters.


This is what I don't get. Eli has been in the league for 8 years. How can the outcome of 1 game decide his ranking among other QB's? If you want to talk about absurd...then you should take a hard look at that statement.

Regarding Ben...I haven't forgotten that it is votes that puts you in the HOF. Your play on the field and off the field come into play. I think Ben, with his past accusations and now a pay-off to substantiate to a degree those accusations...I think he will have a rough go of getting in.

I think Brees may encounter similar difficulties due to his lack of concern for those who played before him.

All of this is JMO, though.

gumby742
02-01-2012, 09:20 AM
lol. don't even get started on evaluating statistical between the 2 QBs. Based on their overall play throughout their entire careers, Ben blows Eli out of the water. Evaluate a QB based on a few games? Try again.

Did you know that Eli has more passing yards and more TDs in his career? And it is laughable how you believe comparing playoff games AND SUPER BOWL GAMES is just a "few games" and can't be compared? 14 playoff games by Big Ben isn't enough a sample to evaluate?! Waiting for 50 games?
</P>


Eli has thrown the ball from what i remember 700 more times then Ben has. Of course he's going to have more Yards and Tds.</P>


Ok then. Compare Ben's post season stats to Eli's. I don't have the time to do it. Let me warn you though. Eli has had a lot of clunkers in the past.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-01-2012, 09:23 AM
If Dilfer still played today he would be in the "Intriguing Wild Card" tier. And that's after the Ravens defense carried him to a ring.


thats the one thing I like about Dilfer - he'll agree with u on that

gumby742
02-01-2012, 09:24 AM
If Dilfer still played today he would be in the "Intriguing Wild Card" tier. And that's after the Ravens defense carried him to a ring.


thats the one thing I like about Dilfer - he'll agree with u on that
</P>


Yeah. I really like him.</P>

DragonSoul
02-01-2012, 09:26 AM
You should analyze Eli the way you analyze Ben. Surely, you have to admit your bias? Ben has Eli beat in almost every category. Harp on a couple games all you want, but fact is the year that Ben stunk it up in his first SB, he was lights out in both the regular seaso AND the playoffs.

Seriously.

You are too funny but you ignore the facts that Big Ben had 20 TDs/17 INTs in playoffs and he beat the Seahawks with the worst performance ever by a winning super bowl QB... And he beat the lame Cardinals in the SB?! He played bad vs the Packers in the his super bowl loss. Not impressed at all.

You can't say that even comes close to Eli's playoff performance.


lol. don't even get started on evaluating statistical between the 2 QBs. Based on their overall play throughout their entire careers, Ben blows Eli out of the water.

Evaluate a QB based on a few games? Try again.Ben had a nice cushy road most times into the SB. We can play the stats game, but it is the context behind it, which most like to ignore or turn a blind eye. Like how Bens 1st SB when he was surrounded with the best defense, run game, oline in the nfl that year. Sounds like the Ravens from 2k. Yet even w/all that help he did crap in the SB & the refs even helped in that game. The refs even helped in the cards game.

So we can play the stats game. I mean lets just look at the division each player played in for 8 years. Any difference there? Even the players who knocked a young qb vs another group of vets that never caused their qb issues, instead that qb caused all of his own problems.

MattMeyerBud
02-01-2012, 09:26 AM
i never noticed ur sig about the top 100 players thing with Eli

are u suggesting that it isn't a popularity contest with that list? I mean you DO know McNabb was on that list right

----

And honestly the only reason Dilfer has Ben on that elite list is because he has two rings..

we'll see where that list is after this year

gumby742
02-01-2012, 10:08 AM
i never noticed ur sig about the top 100 players thing with Eli

are u suggesting that it isn't a popularity contest with that list? I mean you DO know McNabb was on that list right

----

And honestly the only reason Dilfer has Ben on that elite list is because he has two rings..

we'll see where that list is after this year
</P>


I'm too lazy to change my sig. But my point was that one is labeled a "hater" if they don't agree that Eli is some awesome player or that if Eli is not as good as X player. It was more applicable at the beginning of this year then now of course. Eli has been unbelievable this year.</P>


But again, I'm lazy and I don't know what else to write.</P>


My point is that if you have Eli on that list but not Ben, it'sextremely hypocritcal. Ben has bested Eli in virtually almost ever ymajor category for QBs - on top of having more rings, being in more SBs, and having more success in the post season. But the rings + post season bit doesn't mean a whole lot to me. I only bring it up because it is important to most.</P>


As for who's better, Ben or Eli people can argue until they're blue in the face. I'm not getting involved. But to say they aren't on the same level is a little rediculous.</P>

TuckYou
02-01-2012, 10:09 AM
Lock for HOF:</P>


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees</P>


Rodgers,Eliand Big Ben arent HOF good yet. Aaron needs to continue to do this for at least 5 more seasons, even if he doesnt get another ring, that will get him in IMO. Eli needs another ring and a few more seasons like he had this season. Ben, even with 2 rings, he needs to have a few more solid seasons to get in. Romo needs rings and to become a clutch QB, and a few more seasons like last.

Others to look out for early in their careers:
Mathew Stafford, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford</P>

DragonSoul
02-01-2012, 10:25 AM
Lock for HOF:</P>


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees</P>


Rodgers,*Eli*and Big Ben arent HOF good yet. Aaron needs to continue to do this for at least 5 more seasons, even if he doesnt get another ring, that will get him in IMO. Eli needs another ring and a few more seasons like he had this season. Ben, even with 2 rings, he needs to have a few more solid seasons to get in. Romo needs rings and to become a clutch QB, and a few more seasons like last.

Others to look out for early in their careers:
Mathew Stafford, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford</P>Felt the same way. Eli might not need the 2nd ring if his play of this year continues or if he continues to improves as he has done every year.

MattMeyerBud
02-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Lock for HOF:</p>


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees</p>


Rodgers,Eliand Big Ben arent HOF good yet. Aaron needs to continue to do this for at least 5 more seasons, even if he doesnt get another ring, that will get him in IMO. Eli needs another ring and a few more seasons like he had this season. Ben, even with 2 rings, he needs to have a few more solid seasons to get in. Romo needs rings and to become a clutch QB, and a few more seasons like last.

Others to look out for early in their careers:
Mathew Stafford, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford</p>

Ben is in with 2 superbowls

if Eli wins he will be in as well

DragonSoul
02-01-2012, 10:33 AM
Lock for HOF:</p>


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees</p>


Rodgers,*Eli*and Big Ben arent HOF good yet. Aaron needs to continue to do this for at least 5 more seasons, even if he doesnt get another ring, that will get him in IMO. Eli needs another ring and a few more seasons like he had this season. Ben, even with 2 rings, he needs to have a few more solid seasons to get in. Romo needs rings and to become a clutch QB, and a few more seasons like last.

Others to look out for early in their careers:
Mathew Stafford, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford</p>

Ben is in with 2 superbowls

if Eli wins he will be in as well
Honestly that probably should be true. Yet I feel if he puts another 2-3 years as he did the last 2 years even (minus last years ints) He will be in like Flynn. The great thing about that is he could easily have 6-9 years left in his prime (if he stays healthy knock on wood). Who knows how many opportunities he hopefully might have for another SB or two.

We had our shot in 08 till Plax shot it down for everyone. The Team, Coaches, Owners, and the Fans.

That is why I do not want this selfish POS on this team. How many chances can a person get before you say no more? Or does it not matter if your an athlete and can help a team out. I mean I guess not. Vick is a perfect Example.

gumby742
02-01-2012, 10:38 AM
Lock for HOF:</P>


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees</P>


Rodgers,Eliand Big Ben arent HOF good yet. Aaron needs to continue to do this for at least 5 more seasons, even if he doesnt get another ring, that will get him in IMO. Eli needs another ring and a few more seasons like he had this season. Ben, even with 2 rings, he needs to have a few more solid seasons to get in. Romo needs rings and to become a clutch QB, and a few more seasons like last.

Others to look out for early in their careers:
Mathew Stafford, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford</P>




Ben is in with 2 superbowls

if Eli wins he will be in as well
Honestly that probably should be true. Yet I feel if he puts another 2-3 years as he did the last 2 years even (minus last years ints) He will be in like Flynn. The great thing about that is he could easily have 6-9 years left in his prime (if he stays healthy knock on wood). Who knows how many opportunities he hopefully might have for another SB or two. We had our shot in 08 till Plax shot it down for everyone. The Team, Coaches, Owners, and the Fans. That is why I do not want this selfish POS on this team. How many chances can a person get before you say no more? Or does it not matter if your an athlete and can help a team out. I mean I guess not. Vick is a perfect Example.</P>


If Eli continues on his current pace, he'll be on the same pace as Brees and Brady. Definitely a HOF lock.</P>

nygsb42champs
02-01-2012, 10:40 AM
His rankings are useless. Another voice from ESPN who I do not pay attention to.

Big Blue 418
02-01-2012, 10:42 AM
Eli is far better than Ben , and lets be honest the refs and the Dteelers D is the reason they beat the Sehawks

TuckYou
02-01-2012, 11:03 AM
Lock for HOF:</P>


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees</P>


Rodgers,Eliand Big Ben arent HOF good yet. Aaron needs to continue to do this for at least 5 more seasons, even if he doesnt get another ring, that will get him in IMO. Eli needs another ring and a few more seasons like he had this season. Ben, even with 2 rings, he needs to have a few more solid seasons to get in. Romo needs rings and to become a clutch QB, and a few more seasons like last.

Others to look out for early in their careers:
Mathew Stafford, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford</P>




Ben is in with 2 superbowls

if Eli wins he will be in as well
Honestly that probably should be true. Yet I feel if he puts another 2-3 years as he did the last 2 years even (minus last years ints) He will be in like Flynn. The great thing about that is he could easily have 6-9 years left in his prime (if he stays healthy knock on wood). Who knows how many opportunities he hopefully might have for another SB or two. We had our shot in 08 till Plax shot it down for everyone. The Team, Coaches, Owners, and the Fans. That is why I do not want this selfish POS on this team. How many chances can a person get before you say no more? Or does it not matter if your an athlete and can help a team out. I mean I guess not. Vick is a perfect Example.</P>


If Eli continues on his current pace, he'll be on the same pace as Brees and Brady. Definitely a HOF lock.</P>


</P>


How can you say definitely a lock when you are saying IF he continues on his current pace. IF is a huge word there. He is not anywhere near a lock right now. If he loses this game Sunday and never makes it back to the playoffs and has average years the rest of the way, no way he makes it. If he wins this Superbowl, I still feel he needs to have a few consistant seasons like this past one to get in. It is the HALL OF FAME, the best of the best, not the good to great players making it. </P>


Eli is still questioned by everyone now a days on where he stands. How can he be a HOF lock?</P>


BUT, Eli is getting better still and breaking some serious records, so he could be on his way if he wins this one and plays the same for the next couple.</P>

bflo23
02-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Gumby is a phony. Just a couple days ago, this troll's signature was "Osi realists criticize. Osi homers turn it into hate.
SAVE GIGGLES!!!!!!"

He just changed his signature into a Eli hating signature a couple days ago. "I am too lazy to change my signature." but you weren't lazy enough to change it from osi hating to eli hating a couple days ago. Are there any real giant fans with Eli hating signature? Nope. Only trolls.

lawl
02-02-2012, 06:41 PM
Dilfer is not a HOF QB so his words mean very little but just another talking head.

I don't buy this for a second. How highly do you value steve young's opinion?

Athletic ability and professional prowess in the NFL as a player has absolutely no bearing on the work you put in as an analyst and the amount of the game you know.
It kind of does have some bearing because if you can't do it as a player, then how the hell do you evaluate something you have no ability to do it yourself?

Steve Young is a whole another matter as he's a ******bag and way too opinionated to be even objective on what he says.

If you want to hear something remotely valid out of a QB on a QB, I'd rather listen to Troy Aikman or Phil Simms.

Jerry Reese couldn't do it as a player, Ernie accorsi couldnt do it as a player. Just because you're a great player doesn't mean you aren't an idiot and vice versa

BParcells777
02-02-2012, 06:53 PM
Eli is the best QB in the NFL today........BAR NONE

It only came to be this year but what a transformation

gumby742
02-02-2012, 10:15 PM
Lock for HOF:</P>


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees</P>


Rodgers,*Eli*and Big Ben arent HOF good yet. Aaron needs to continue to do this for at least 5 more seasons, even if he doesnt get another ring, that will get him in IMO. Eli needs another ring and a few more seasons like he had this season. Ben, even with 2 rings, he needs to have a few more solid seasons to get in. Romo needs rings and to become a clutch QB, and a few more seasons like last.

Others to look out for early in their careers:
Mathew Stafford, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford</P>




Ben is in with 2 superbowls

if Eli wins he will be in as well
Honestly that probably should be true. Yet I feel if he puts another 2-3 years as he did the last 2 years even (minus last years ints) He will be in like Flynn. The great thing about that is he could easily have 6-9 years left in his prime (if he stays healthy knock on wood). Who knows how many opportunities he hopefully might have for another SB or two. We had our shot in 08 till Plax shot it down for everyone. The Team, Coaches, Owners, and the Fans. That is why I do not want this selfish POS on this team. How many chances can a person get before you say no more? Or does it not matter if your an athlete and can help a team out. I mean I guess not. Vick is a perfect Example.</P>


If Eli continues on his current pace, he'll be on the same pace as Brees and Brady.* Definitely a HOF lock.</P>


</P>


How can you say definitely a lock when you are saying IF he continues on his current pace. IF is a huge word there. He is not anywhere near a lock right now. If he loses this game Sunday and never makes it back to the playoffs and has average years the rest of the way, no way he makes it. If he wins this Superbowl, I still feel he needs to have a few consistant seasons like this past one to get in. It is the HALL OF FAME, the best of the best, not the good to great players making it. </P>


Eli is still questioned by everyone now a days on where he stands. How can he be a HOF lock?</P>


BUT, Eli is getting better still and breaking some serious records, so he could be on his way if he wins this one and plays the same for the next couple.</P>

Sorry. I meant if Eli continues at his current pace he should be in the hall. But that's a big if.