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View Full Version : Talking about Elis Leadership - Toomer knocks Shockey on NBCSports



DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 02:11 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07.

Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on.

Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle"

Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax.

And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

NYG4ME
02-02-2012, 02:30 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07.

Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on.

Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle"

Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax.

And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

I figured this was the case, Shockey was nothing more than a distraction here. Talented? Absolutely. Goof-ball? Absolutely. I remember thinking to myself when shockey got hurt against Washington in 07 "is this going to hurt us or help us?" I think most fans felt like he was a distraction.

GiantWarfare
02-02-2012, 03:21 AM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1296/1377930593_a465a914ae_o.gif

swimeasy
02-02-2012, 05:50 AM
Thanks for posting. Also have a Shockey jersey. Good riddance.Glad the record could be publicly corrected for Eli's sake. Now Shockey, Plax and Tiki are all available again. No thank you. They can all ride off into the sunset together.

giantyankee1976
02-02-2012, 07:32 AM
Thanks for posting. Also have a Shockey jersey. Good riddance.Glad the record could be publicly corrected for Eli's sake. Now Shockey, Plax and Tiki are all available again. No thank you. They can all ride off into the sunset together.

Basically.

Once again proving why we the fans can ***** all we want about a "favorite" player's departure and yet the Coaches and F. Office within; they know exactly where the cancers are.

much applause Mr. Reese and Coughlin. Once again I can eat a delayed plate of crow.

translation: I once cheered Shockey, Plax and Tiki. Of the 3, Tiki still has my gratitude and to an extent Plax for the GW fade catch.

In the end, Eli's classiness was apparent even to this day. If the idiots could have recognized his humility and passion, maybe they could have cashed in on Giants Greatness.

(of course all but Tiki have SB rings but...)

GCGiant
02-02-2012, 08:28 AM
Once again proving why we the fans can ***** all we want about a "favorite" player's departure and yet the Coaches and F. Office within; they know exactly where the cancers are

Anybody who didn't see this was wearing blinders. Between Plax and Shockey waving their arms in the air like madmen and Tiki spewing BS...you didn't have to be a coach or GM to see it...they weren't trying to hide anything from anyone.

For me, it went over the top when Shockey thought he was interfered with on a play and while he was standing around waving his arms around...looking for a flag...a defender ran past him with an int and I think he gave the guy a passing glance as the defender ran by him.

nygsb42champs
02-02-2012, 09:14 AM
It was a shame he was like that. He had all the skill in the world and if he could have kept his mouth under control he could have had a huge career with Eli.

CDN_G-FAN
02-02-2012, 09:15 AM
Thanks for posting. Also have a Shockey jersey. Good riddance.Glad the record could be publicly corrected for Eli's sake. Now Shockey, Plax and Tiki are all available again. No thank you. They can all ride off into the sunset together.

Basically.

Once again proving why we the fans can ***** all we want about a "favorite" player's departure and yet the Coaches and F. Office within; they know exactly where the cancers are.

much applause Mr. Reese and Coughlin.* Once again I can eat a delayed plate of crow.

translation: I once cheered Shockey, Plax and Tiki.* Of the 3, Tiki still has my gratitude and to an extent Plax for the GW fade catch.

In the end, Eli's classiness was apparent even to this day.* If the idiots could have recognized his humility and passion, maybe they could have cashed in on Giants Greatness.

(of course all but Tiki have SB rings but...)


+1

shockey's first season in NO confirmed what kind of player he was.

Brees spend half the season screaming at him after plays.

once graham became an option, shockey became an afterthought.

this kind of locker room issue is underestimated, and great post pointing out the importance of a front office recognizing it.

Are you reading this New York Jets?

elismom
02-02-2012, 09:17 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07.

Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on.

Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle"

Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax.

And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

I wish he was still a giant I wish I could rock that jersey in my closet

He got what deserved and I am glad he is not here

SackingMyths
02-02-2012, 09:20 AM
Thanks for posting. Also have a Shockey jersey. Good riddance.Glad the record could be publicly corrected for Eli's sake. Now Shockey, Plax and Tiki are all available again. No thank you. They can all ride off into the sunset together.

Basically.

Once again proving why we the fans can ***** all we want about a "favorite" player's departure and yet the Coaches and F. Office within; they know exactly where the cancers are.

much applause Mr. Reese and Coughlin. Once again I can eat a delayed plate of crow.

translation: I once cheered Shockey, Plax and Tiki. Of the 3, Tiki still has my gratitude and to an extent Plax for the GW fade catch.

In the end, Eli's classiness was apparent even to this day. If the idiots could have recognized his humility and passion, maybe they could have cashed in on Giants Greatness.

(of course all but Tiki have SB rings but...)


+1

shockey's first season in NO confirmed what kind of player he was.

Brees spend half the season screaming at him after plays.

once graham became an option, shockey became an afterthought.

this kind of locker room issue is underestimated, and great post pointing out the importance of a front office recognizing it.

Are you reading this New York Jets?

Ya beat me to it [:D]

Sanchez is going through the same garbage right now, and Toomer saying this is just damning criticism for Shockey. Wow.

Wellington loved Shockey, though, and I think the organization stayed loyal to him more than they should have, for this reason.

Glad he didn't retire a Giant.

GameTime
02-02-2012, 09:26 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07. Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on. Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle" Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax. And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).</P>


glad you made a thread about this. I put into a post last week and a few times in previous weeks under different threads. </P>


Shockey could have been one of the greats if he only understood the team concept and moved forward like that. Some will say he was used incorrectly. Well, IMO he was used for blocking more than he wanted becuase he had a young QB and also to shut him the **** up. If his assignment on a particular was to "just" block then I guess he couldnt bust Eli balls in the huddle to throw to him everytime. </P>


A perfect example of being your own worst enemy...</P>


</P>

gumby742
02-02-2012, 09:42 AM
screw you all. I'm going to keep my Shockey jersey and I'm still going to love my Shockey jersey. Back then, he was my favorite Giant.</P>


But yeah, what an ***.</P>

GameTime
02-02-2012, 09:45 AM
screw you all. I'm going to keep my Shockey jersey and I'm still going to love my Shockey jersey. Back then, he was my favorite Giant.</P>


But yeah, what an ***.</P>


</P>


I'll send you my Tiki Jersey.....never worn once.....lol</P>

barran21
02-02-2012, 09:45 AM
Imagine Tiki there too....poor Eli..

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 09:56 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07.

Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on.

Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle"

Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax.

And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

CantBlameShockeyNow.... or can i?

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 09:57 AM
screw you all. I'm going to keep my Shockey jersey and I'm still going to love my Shockey jersey. Back then, he was my favorite Giant.</p>


But yeah, what an ***.</p>

My Shockey jersey got tossed and my plax jersey got ****ed up when he my halloween costume post 2008

swimeasy
02-02-2012, 09:57 AM
Imagine Tiki there too....poor Eli..


Exactly. Here's to Eli having the last laugh this Sunday- again! [B]

gumby742
02-02-2012, 09:58 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07. Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on. Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle" Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax. And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

CantBlameShockeyNow.... or can i?
</P>


Wow. I JUST "got" his screen name. Didn't occur to me until you just said that. That's pretty funny.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:01 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07. Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on. Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle" Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax. And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

CantBlameShockeyNow.... or can i?
</p>


Wow. I JUST "got" his screen name. Didn't occur to me until you just said that. That's pretty funny.</p>

he only comes by when things are going bad

Infact a Giants superbowl win would probably cause him to create a new screen name and not show his cowboy hat anymore

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:03 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it

ANON837
02-02-2012, 10:03 AM
This quote doesn't mention Eli's leadership. What it does mention is that a young QB thrived when the cancers are not in the huddle. I liked Shockey like everybody else, but I knew he was on borrowed time in this organization. I remember when the Saints went to the SB and the commentators were mentioning about Brees' dealings with Shockey. They said he would grab Shockey by his jersey and tell him to run the routes correctly or get off the field. That's leadership. Not taking crap from anyone and letting them know that they defer to him. But also understanding that Brees was not a young QB at the time. Eli has earned that same respect and he doesn't have to utter a word. And I highly doubt that any receiver would ever walk into a huddle like Shockey did while Eli is under center.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:06 AM
This quote doesn't mention Eli's leadership. What it does mention is that a young QB thrived when the cancers are not in the huddle. I liked Shockey like everybody else, but I knew he was on borrowed time in this organization. I remember when the Saints went to the SB and the commentators were mentioning about Brees' dealings with Shockey. They said he would grab Shockey by his jersey and tell him to run the routes correctly or get off the field. That's leadership. Not taking crap from anyone and letting them know that they defer to him. But also understanding that Brees was not a young QB at the time. Eli has earned that same respect and he doesn't have to utter a word. And I highly doubt that any receiver would ever walk into a huddle like Shockey did while Eli is under center.

well it was the first part

Eli didn't step up because of the vets around him, it wasn't his place to.

People were mistaking that as Eli was too scared or couldn't do it for a long time

gumby742
02-02-2012, 10:08 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07. Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on. Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle" Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax. And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

CantBlameShockeyNow.... or can i?
</P>


Wow. I JUST "got" his screen name. Didn't occur to me until you just said that. That's pretty funny.</P>




he only comes by when things are going bad

Infact a Giants superbowl win would probably cause him to create a new screen name and not show his cowboy hat anymore
</P>


Haha. I forgot about his avatar with the Cowboy hat too. That's hilarious.</P>

gumby742
02-02-2012, 10:10 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</P>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:11 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07. Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on. Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle" Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax. And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

CantBlameShockeyNow.... or can i?
</p>


Wow. I JUST "got" his screen name. Didn't occur to me until you just said that. That's pretty funny.</p>




he only comes by when things are going bad

Infact a Giants superbowl win would probably cause him to create a new screen name and not show his cowboy hat anymore
</p>


Haha. I forgot about his avatar with the Cowboy hat too. That's hilarious.</p>

lol i use to call him the metrosexual cowboy - he didn't like that

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:17 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</p>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</p>

Well I agree in a sense, but I think the book is still out on Sanchez.

I've seen him miss Plax SOOO many times this year that it was just awful. Like where he had him, was throwing to him, and couldn't get it to him. That scares me because Plax was ready for football this year. How u can't get that man the ball is a travesty.

His line also got him KILLED. While I do think his play regressed i think its ridic to throw the towel on a young QB like that.

But he also handled Santonio differently than eli handled shockey. Eli would try and force throws to shockey, Sanchez basically said **** you and ignored him alot.

bansaw
02-02-2012, 10:17 AM
Shockey is a drunk
all drunks are self centered

SackingMyths
02-02-2012, 10:31 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</p>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</p>

Well I agree in a sense, but I think the book is still out on Sanchez.

I've seen him miss Plax SOOO many times this year that it was just awful. Like where he had him, was throwing to him, and couldn't get it to him. That scares me because Plax was ready for football this year. How u can't get that man the ball is a travesty.

His line also got him KILLED. While I do think his play regressed i think its ridic to throw the towel on a young QB like that.

But he also handled Santonio differently than eli handled shockey. Eli would try and force throws to shockey, Sanchez basically said **** you and ignored him alot.




I saw clear progress with Sanchez this year, but big-time regression in his o-line protection and run game. He was just like Eli was his first few years; benefitting much off of play action and clear decisions on where to go with the football. His first two years, his O-line didn't let you get a glove on him. This year, he got the David Carr treatment and looked like he was gonna cry, at times. But he made better throws and reads than I'd seen in previous years. Not that most Jets fans took notice.

It's further proof that their fanbase, by-and-large, has no idea what they're looking at and don't deserve any success. But then again, this is the same "classy" bunch of chums who were cheering loudly when Pennington got hurt so that, wait for it...Kellen Clemens would come in. They're about as loyal as a dimestore hooker.

That said, he isn't as tough as Eli, doesn't say all the right things like Eli, hasn't shown the ability to masterfully run a two-minute drill the way Eli always has.

So, he deserves more rope than he's being given, but not nearly as much as Eli deserved.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:36 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</p>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</p>

Well I agree in a sense, but I think the book is still out on Sanchez.

I've seen him miss Plax SOOO many times this year that it was just awful. Like where he had him, was throwing to him, and couldn't get it to him. That scares me because Plax was ready for football this year. How u can't get that man the ball is a travesty.

His line also got him KILLED. While I do think his play regressed i think its ridic to throw the towel on a young QB like that.

But he also handled Santonio differently than eli handled shockey. Eli would try and force throws to shockey, Sanchez basically said **** you and ignored him alot.




I saw clear progress with Sanchez this year, but big-time regression in his o-line protection and run game. He was just like Eli was his first few years; benefitting much off of play action and clear decisions on where to go with the football. His first two years, his O-line didn't let you get a glove on him. This year, he got the David Carr treatment and looked like he was gonna cry, at times. But he made better throws and reads than I'd seen in previous years. Not that most Jets fans took notice.

It's further proof that their fanbase, by-and-large, has no idea what they're looking at and don't deserve any success. But then again, this is the same "classy" bunch of chums who were cheering loudly when Pennington got hurt so that, wait for it...Kellen Clemens would come in. They're about as loyal as a dimestore hooker.

That said, he isn't as tough as Eli, doesn't say all the right things like Eli, hasn't shown the ability to masterfully run a two-minute drill the way Eli always has.

So, he deserves more rope than he's being given, but not nearly as much as Eli deserved.


completely disagree about progress with Sanchez. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say his bad play had alot to do with the dysfunction of the Jet and the awful play by their oline.

I completely agree about their fan base. Most of them have little brother issues and i love it.

NY isn't for everybody. Everybody always knocked me for saying that Eli was a perfect fit for out here because I really don't think somebody like Rivers could of handedthe heat. I don't think the personalities matched.

The hate for him is just the typical ny fan base and media. While Giants fans are diff than Jet fans, there is still that ignorant if we aren't winning everything now attitude, then start all over. People were killing Eli early too - now they sing his praise. Not calling Sanchez Eli by ANY means, but he needs another year or two to see what u really got in him.

SackingMyths
02-02-2012, 10:43 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</p>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</p>

Well I agree in a sense, but I think the book is still out on Sanchez.

I've seen him miss Plax SOOO many times this year that it was just awful. Like where he had him, was throwing to him, and couldn't get it to him. That scares me because Plax was ready for football this year. How u can't get that man the ball is a travesty.

His line also got him KILLED. While I do think his play regressed i think its ridic to throw the towel on a young QB like that.

But he also handled Santonio differently than eli handled shockey. Eli would try and force throws to shockey, Sanchez basically said **** you and ignored him alot.




I saw clear progress with Sanchez this year, but big-time regression in his o-line protection and run game. He was just like Eli was his first few years; benefitting much off of play action and clear decisions on where to go with the football. His first two years, his O-line didn't let you get a glove on him. This year, he got the David Carr treatment and looked like he was gonna cry, at times. But he made better throws and reads than I'd seen in previous years. Not that most Jets fans took notice.

It's further proof that their fanbase, by-and-large, has no idea what they're looking at and don't deserve any success. But then again, this is the same "classy" bunch of chums who were cheering loudly when Pennington got hurt so that, wait for it...Kellen Clemens would come in. They're about as loyal as a dimestore hooker.

That said, he isn't as tough as Eli, doesn't say all the right things like Eli, hasn't shown the ability to masterfully run a two-minute drill the way Eli always has.

So, he deserves more rope than he's being given, but not nearly as much as Eli deserved.


completely disagree about progress with Sanchez. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say his bad play had alot to do with the dysfunction of the Jet and the awful play by their oline.

I completely agree about their fan base. Most of them have little brother issues and i love it.

NY isn't for everybody. Everybody always knocked me for saying that Eli was a perfect fit for out here because I really don't think somebody like Rivers could of handedthe heat. I don't think the personalities matched.

The hate for him is just the typical ny fan base and media. While Giants fans are diff than Jet fans, there is still that ignorant if we aren't winning everything now attitude, then start all over. People were killing Eli early too - now they sing his praise. Not calling Sanchez Eli by ANY means, but he needs another year or two to see what u really got in him.


Totally, my man. Rivers may be a stud, but his temperament never would have allowed him to survive the 24/7 criticism. He's too much of a hot-head.

And Big Ben...my goodness. Great player and true-warrior, but I think we're all kidding ourselves if we think that this franchise would have stood behind his "sexual transgressions" and off-field boobery.

You're 100% correct; Eli is a perfect fit for this team and city as a total package.

GMENAGAIN
02-02-2012, 10:49 AM
Thanks for posting. Also have a Shockey jersey. Good riddance.Glad the record could be publicly corrected for Eli's sake. Now Shockey, Plax and Tiki are all available again. No thank you. They can all ride off into the sunset together.

Basically.

<FONT size=5>Once again proving why we the fans can ***** all we want about a "favorite" player's departure and yet the Coaches and F. Office within; they know exactly where the cancers are.

</FONT>much applause Mr. Reese and Coughlin. Once again I can eat a delayed plate of crow.

translation: I once cheered Shockey, Plax and Tiki. Of the 3, Tiki still has my gratitude and to an extent Plax for the GW fade catch.

In the end, Eli's classiness was apparent even to this day. If the idiots could have recognized his humility and passion, maybe they could have cashed in on Giants Greatness.

(of course all but Tiki have SB rings but...)
</P>


Excellent point. We as fans have no idea about a lot of the facts that go into the decision-making process -- who is a hard worker and who isn't, who studies and who doesn't, who is a pain-in-the-*** and who isn't, etc . . . . . </P>

GCGiant
02-02-2012, 10:57 AM
. Rivers may be a stud
nope

BlueBlitzer
02-02-2012, 11:00 AM
Now He can pull on Newton's jersey.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:26 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</p>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</p>

Well I agree in a sense, but I think the book is still out on Sanchez.

I've seen him miss Plax SOOO many times this year that it was just awful. Like where he had him, was throwing to him, and couldn't get it to him. That scares me because Plax was ready for football this year. How u can't get that man the ball is a travesty.

His line also got him KILLED. While I do think his play regressed i think its ridic to throw the towel on a young QB like that.

But he also handled Santonio differently than eli handled shockey. Eli would try and force throws to shockey, Sanchez basically said **** you and ignored him alot.




I saw clear progress with Sanchez this year, but big-time regression in his o-line protection and run game. He was just like Eli was his first few years; benefitting much off of play action and clear decisions on where to go with the football. His first two years, his O-line didn't let you get a glove on him. This year, he got the David Carr treatment and looked like he was gonna cry, at times. But he made better throws and reads than I'd seen in previous years. Not that most Jets fans took notice.

It's further proof that their fanbase, by-and-large, has no idea what they're looking at and don't deserve any success. But then again, this is the same "classy" bunch of chums who were cheering loudly when Pennington got hurt so that, wait for it...Kellen Clemens would come in. They're about as loyal as a dimestore hooker.

That said, he isn't as tough as Eli, doesn't say all the right things like Eli, hasn't shown the ability to masterfully run a two-minute drill the way Eli always has.

So, he deserves more rope than he's being given, but not nearly as much as Eli deserved.


completely disagree about progress with Sanchez. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say his bad play had alot to do with the dysfunction of the Jet and the awful play by their oline.

I completely agree about their fan base. Most of them have little brother issues and i love it.

NY isn't for everybody. Everybody always knocked me for saying that Eli was a perfect fit for out here because I really don't think somebody like Rivers could of handedthe heat. I don't think the personalities matched.

The hate for him is just the typical ny fan base and media. While Giants fans are diff than Jet fans, there is still that ignorant if we aren't winning everything now attitude, then start all over. People were killing Eli early too - now they sing his praise. Not calling Sanchez Eli by ANY means, but he needs another year or two to see what u really got in him.


Totally, my man. Rivers may be a stud, but his temperament never would have allowed him to survive the 24/7 criticism. He's too much of a hot-head.

And Big Ben...my goodness. Great player and true-warrior, but I think we're all kidding ourselves if we think that this franchise would have stood behind his "sexual transgressions" and off-field boobery.

You're 100% correct; Eli is a perfect fit for this team and city as a total package.


ehhh the one thing though: i'm not sure we wouldnt' of stood by Big Ben.

Pitt's ownership is a similiar ownership that we have and they stood by him and we've stood by LT

BigBlue2010
02-02-2012, 11:30 AM
I am in no way disagreeing with anybody on how a negative leadership "web" stunts development but IMO there was also on other significant change. About the time Shockey got hurt didn't Steve Smith also came back from his injury. I think when the TE went down and the young slot WR came in that helped ELI as well. I know SS12 is a four letter word around here but let's face it, he was the first WR Eli got to mold from scratch and the two really helped each other.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:37 AM
I am in no way disagreeing with anybody on how a negative leadership "web" stunts development but IMO there was also on other significant change. About the time Shockey got hurt didn't Steve Smith also came back from his injury. I think when the TE went down and the young slot WR came in that helped ELI as well. I know SS12 is a four letter word around here but let's face it, he was the first WR Eli got to mold from scratch and the two really helped each other.
well I dunno what to think of that cuz I think Toomer held that role down pretty damn good as well and he was still there at that time

SackingMyths
02-02-2012, 11:42 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</p>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</p>

Well I agree in a sense, but I think the book is still out on Sanchez.

I've seen him miss Plax SOOO many times this year that it was just awful. Like where he had him, was throwing to him, and couldn't get it to him. That scares me because Plax was ready for football this year. How u can't get that man the ball is a travesty.

His line also got him KILLED. While I do think his play regressed i think its ridic to throw the towel on a young QB like that.

But he also handled Santonio differently than eli handled shockey. Eli would try and force throws to shockey, Sanchez basically said **** you and ignored him alot.




I saw clear progress with Sanchez this year, but big-time regression in his o-line protection and run game. He was just like Eli was his first few years; benefitting much off of play action and clear decisions on where to go with the football. His first two years, his O-line didn't let you get a glove on him. This year, he got the David Carr treatment and looked like he was gonna cry, at times. But he made better throws and reads than I'd seen in previous years. Not that most Jets fans took notice.

It's further proof that their fanbase, by-and-large, has no idea what they're looking at and don't deserve any success. But then again, this is the same "classy" bunch of chums who were cheering loudly when Pennington got hurt so that, wait for it...Kellen Clemens would come in. They're about as loyal as a dimestore hooker.

That said, he isn't as tough as Eli, doesn't say all the right things like Eli, hasn't shown the ability to masterfully run a two-minute drill the way Eli always has.

So, he deserves more rope than he's being given, but not nearly as much as Eli deserved.


completely disagree about progress with Sanchez. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say his bad play had alot to do with the dysfunction of the Jet and the awful play by their oline.

I completely agree about their fan base. Most of them have little brother issues and i love it.

NY isn't for everybody. Everybody always knocked me for saying that Eli was a perfect fit for out here because I really don't think somebody like Rivers could of handedthe heat. I don't think the personalities matched.

The hate for him is just the typical ny fan base and media. While Giants fans are diff than Jet fans, there is still that ignorant if we aren't winning everything now attitude, then start all over. People were killing Eli early too - now they sing his praise. Not calling Sanchez Eli by ANY means, but he needs another year or two to see what u really got in him.


Totally, my man. Rivers may be a stud, but his temperament never would have allowed him to survive the 24/7 criticism. He's too much of a hot-head.

And Big Ben...my goodness. Great player and true-warrior, but I think we're all kidding ourselves if we think that this franchise would have stood behind his "sexual transgressions" and off-field boobery.

You're 100% correct; Eli is a perfect fit for this team and city as a total package.


ehhh the one thing though: i'm not sure we wouldnt' of stood by Big Ben.

Pitt's ownership is a similiar ownership that we have and they stood by him and we've stood by LT


It would've been a major PR boner and a very poor representation of the organization that puts so much effort into staying on the straight-and-narrow.

You're right in that the Steelers are very similar in how they're run, and the ethics they uphold. But you just cannot compare the media in Pittsburgh and in NY, where very minor things are blown way out of proportion.

I'm just glad we'll never know for sure...

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:47 AM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</p>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</p>

Well I agree in a sense, but I think the book is still out on Sanchez.

I've seen him miss Plax SOOO many times this year that it was just awful. Like where he had him, was throwing to him, and couldn't get it to him. That scares me because Plax was ready for football this year. How u can't get that man the ball is a travesty.

His line also got him KILLED. While I do think his play regressed i think its ridic to throw the towel on a young QB like that.

But he also handled Santonio differently than eli handled shockey. Eli would try and force throws to shockey, Sanchez basically said **** you and ignored him alot.




I saw clear progress with Sanchez this year, but big-time regression in his o-line protection and run game. He was just like Eli was his first few years; benefitting much off of play action and clear decisions on where to go with the football. His first two years, his O-line didn't let you get a glove on him. This year, he got the David Carr treatment and looked like he was gonna cry, at times. But he made better throws and reads than I'd seen in previous years. Not that most Jets fans took notice.

It's further proof that their fanbase, by-and-large, has no idea what they're looking at and don't deserve any success. But then again, this is the same "classy" bunch of chums who were cheering loudly when Pennington got hurt so that, wait for it...Kellen Clemens would come in. They're about as loyal as a dimestore hooker.

That said, he isn't as tough as Eli, doesn't say all the right things like Eli, hasn't shown the ability to masterfully run a two-minute drill the way Eli always has.

So, he deserves more rope than he's being given, but not nearly as much as Eli deserved.


completely disagree about progress with Sanchez. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say his bad play had alot to do with the dysfunction of the Jet and the awful play by their oline.

I completely agree about their fan base. Most of them have little brother issues and i love it.

NY isn't for everybody. Everybody always knocked me for saying that Eli was a perfect fit for out here because I really don't think somebody like Rivers could of handedthe heat. I don't think the personalities matched.

The hate for him is just the typical ny fan base and media. While Giants fans are diff than Jet fans, there is still that ignorant if we aren't winning everything now attitude, then start all over. People were killing Eli early too - now they sing his praise. Not calling Sanchez Eli by ANY means, but he needs another year or two to see what u really got in him.


Totally, my man. Rivers may be a stud, but his temperament never would have allowed him to survive the 24/7 criticism. He's too much of a hot-head.

And Big Ben...my goodness. Great player and true-warrior, but I think we're all kidding ourselves if we think that this franchise would have stood behind his "sexual transgressions" and off-field boobery.

You're 100% correct; Eli is a perfect fit for this team and city as a total package.


ehhh the one thing though: i'm not sure we wouldnt' of stood by Big Ben.

Pitt's ownership is a similiar ownership that we have and they stood by him and we've stood by LT


It would've been a major PR boner and a very poor representation of the organization that puts so much effort into staying on the straight-and-narrow.

You're right in that the Steelers are very similar in how they're run, and the ethics they uphold. But you just cannot compare the media in Pittsburgh and in NY, where very minor things are blown way out of proportion.

<font size="6">I'm just glad we'll never know for sure...</font>



lol cheers to that

burier
02-02-2012, 11:50 AM
I always loved Shockey. I didn't even mind the showing up or showing off he would do when he didn't get the ball or he felt the ball was thrown out of reach.

But I gave up on shockey in 07 when he dropped a pass and Eli goes over to him on the bench to presumably tell him to get his head and in the game and then when Eli walked away you can read Shockey's lips very clearly "I don't Care"

I expect a QB to deal with recievers insisting that they are always open but I don't expect a QB to deal with players underminding his authority.

That means if Shockey was saying "Eli I'm open throw me the ball" in the huddle Eli should be able to deal with that by either telling him "Hey I see you, don't worry." Or shut the hell up. You play TE and I'll play Quarterback"

But if the TE cant fall in and let the QB have the last word either way then he's got a problem and should be removed.

I don't like the word cancer. Its over used but Shockey was clearly a problem for Eli.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:53 AM
I always loved Shockey. I didn't even mind the showing up or showing off he would do when he didn't get the ball or he felt the ball was thrown out of reach.

But I gave up on shockey in 07 when he dropped a pass and Eli goes over to him on the bench to presumably tell him to get his head and in the game and then when Eli walked away you can read Shockey's lips very clearly "I don't Care"

I expect a QB to deal with recievers insisting that they are always open but I don't expect a QB to deal with players underminding his authority.

That means if Shockey was saying "Eli I'm open throw me the ball" in the huddle Eli should be able to deal with that by either telling him "Hey I see you, don't worry." Or shut the hell up. You play TE and I'll play Quarterback"

But if the TE cant fall in and let the QB have the last word either way then he's got a problem and should be removed.

I don't like the word cancer. Its over used but Shockey was clearly a problem for Eli.

i think it was hard situation for Eli to do that. You still had to deal with Tiki, Shockey nad PLax were good friends...

You have to find a balance of making everyone happy and making the right decisions while keeping everybody supporting you.

Tough spot for Eli, thank god Reese was able to see this and just got rid of Shockey. I agree I loved shockey, sucks he couldn't just not be a ****** to his own QB.

Its like he could never get over letting Collins and Warner go

DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 11:53 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07.

Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on.

Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle"

Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax.

And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

CantBlameShockeyNow.... or can i?
LMFAO. He will have another excuse, that is if he really is a NYG fan lmao.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:56 AM
The panel asked toomer about Elis leadership early on in his career from Rookie leading to up to 07.

Toomer said that when Eli came into the looker room as a rookie. He did not take that role because he wanted to be respectful to his veteran teammates. Most of the vets understood it, but namely Jeremy Shockey took advantage of it early on.

Quoting from Toomer: " He would go into the huddle always pull on him, always try to make him not get through his read by saying hey I'm open I'm open. And those were the type of things that a young QB cannot really handle. And there is no question in my mind that reason why after Jeremy Shockey in 2007 got injured Elis play went up. Because he did not have that distraction in the huddle"

Wow. That is said what type of Idiot Shockey turned out to be. I could deal with it early on figuring he was a young dumb kid, and Mr. Mara had hope for him I recall. Shockey got what he deserved. Tiki and Shockey are on the same boat with Plax.

And I was a big fan of Shockeys. His Jersey was the first one I brought. After his was Tiki (what a roll) But I repented and got Elis and then Strahans (after he retired).

CantBlameShockeyNow.... or can i?
LMFAO. He will have another excuse, that is if he really is a NYG fan lmao.

that metrosexual cowboy hat he wears tells me one thing: ROMO LOVER

DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 11:56 AM
screw you all.* I'm going to keep my Shockey jersey and I'm still going to love my Shockey jersey.* Back then, he was my favorite Giant.</p>


But yeah, what an ***.</p>

My Shockey jersey got tossed and my plax jersey got ****ed up when he my halloween costume post 2008
You know those examples are part of the reason I never brought Jerseys till a maybe 05/06.

Because many turn out to be POS. And then your stuck with a rag. I brought an Authentic Tiki Jersey and right after he said he was going to retire. (now that didn't bother me as much of he turned out to be an egotistical BUTTHAT!) At least i felt safe with Eli, and Strahan.

Now if I do buy another jersey down the road, have to put it all together and see if its worth getting a current players jersey.

DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 12:00 PM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
Early on it didn't bother me, but once Eli wanted to practice with those guys and nearly all turned him down. You knew what was up.

I never went on that debate, because it all was speculation. I was waiting to hear it from a current/former players mouth before I spoke on it.

Similar to when there was a argument/fight between Tiki and Strahan. I was a big Tiki fan back there, but I kept out of it, since we were not there, and it is a lot of here say. Yet the truth did eventually come out who was the TEAM player and who was the MEplayer.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 12:03 PM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
Early on it didn't bother me, but once Eli wanted to practice with those guys and nearly all turned him down. You knew what was up.

I never went on that debate, because it all was speculation. I was waiting to hear it from a current/former players mouth before I spoke on it.

Similar to when there was a argument/fight between Tiki and Strahan. I was a big Tiki fan back there, but I kept out of it, since we were not there, and it is a lot of here say. Yet the truth did eventually come out who was the TEAM player and who was the MEplayer.

there was alot of visual on it imo though. Alot of times Shockey would throw his hands up for no reason, then a even remember a couple of picks where Eli just focused on shockey the hwole time and would try throwing into double coverage just to try and get him the ball....

I mean all the signs were there, then the stories that leaked to the press, then the trading of him made it official for me

DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 12:04 PM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</P>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right?* After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing.* Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</P>To be fair, I actually haven't been on Sanchezs case since he is in his 3rd year. But he has to show improvement as Eli did year in and year out, and this year he regressed. But I still give him the benefit of the doubt.

So yea some of US guys are fair. And once I heard about all the issues in the Jets locker room. I thought about Eli and if it actually had a affect/role. Apparently it affected Eli and now Mark. But again Eli still improved each year from his rookie year till this year and possibly further on.

DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 12:12 PM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
Early on it didn't bother me, but once Eli wanted to practice with those guys and nearly all turned him down. You knew what was up.

I never went on that debate, because it all was speculation. I was waiting to hear it from a current/former players mouth before I spoke on it.

Similar to when there was a argument/fight between Tiki and Strahan. I was a big Tiki fan back there, but I kept out of it, since we were not there, and it is a lot of here say. Yet the truth did eventually come out who was the TEAM player and who was the MEplayer.

there was alot of visual on it imo though. Alot of times Shockey would throw his hands up for no reason, then a even remember a couple of picks where Eli just focused on shockey the hwole time and would try throwing into double coverage just to try and get him the ball....

I mean all the signs were there, then the stories that leaked to the press, then the trading of him made it official for me
That is true but it was early on in the career. Further along both Plax and Shockey toned it down a bit. And you figured over time the idiots would realize to knock it off. It took them longer then I liked, and with the combo of that, and not joining Eli to practice in the off season, then you saw the truth.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But there is a point where enough is enough. Vick, Plax, LT - they are on all different levels for what they did, but they all had a ton of 3rd tries.

GCGiant
02-02-2012, 12:20 PM
It was easy for me to see the malcontents on the team when I started tuning in at the beginning of '04. I think the true Giant fans...which I can never claim to be...as much as I would like to...had their hearts broken by some of these guys. Not having any attachments to anyone, it was plain as day. It's just fortunate that management didn't have the same attachments.

burier
02-02-2012, 12:34 PM
I always loved Shockey. I didn't even mind the showing up or showing off he would do when he didn't get the ball or he felt the ball was thrown out of reach.

But I gave up on shockey in 07 when he dropped a pass and Eli goes over to him on the bench to presumably tell him to get his head and in the game and then when Eli walked away you can read Shockey's lips very clearly "I don't Care"

I expect a QB to deal with recievers insisting that they are always open but I don't expect a QB to deal with players underminding his authority.

That means if Shockey was saying "Eli I'm open throw me the ball" in the huddle Eli should be able to deal with that by either telling him "Hey I see you, don't worry." Or shut the hell up. You play TE and I'll play Quarterback"

But if the TE cant fall in and let the QB have the last word either way then he's got a problem and should be removed.

I don't like the word cancer. Its over used but Shockey was clearly a problem for Eli.

i think it was hard situation for Eli to do that. You still had to deal with Tiki, Shockey nad PLax were good friends...

You have to find a balance of making everyone happy and making the right decisions while keeping everybody supporting you.

Tough spot for Eli, thank god Reese was able to see this and just got rid of Shockey. I agree I loved shockey, sucks he couldn't just not be a ****** to his own QB.

Its like he could never get over letting Collins and Warner go


I agree it was a tough spot for Eli, I think Tiki was huge problem as I get the feeling he was trying to run the ship a bit.

As tough as it must have been thats really part of the Job descrtiption. Leader of men and all that J***.

But I find it interesting because in my opinion Eli got better once Tiki and Shockey were gone and got even better once Plax was gone.

JJC7301
02-02-2012, 12:35 PM
not for nothing - but i guess all of us Eli "apologists" were on to something about some of the downfalls of ELis play....

sorry but this was a topic that has been MUDRDERED over the past 5 years - glad we finally got some clarity on it
</P>


If that's the case the lot of you have no right to be crucifying Sanchez either right? After all, he probably has to deal with a similar thing. Whatever people want to think is fine, my only thing is to be consistent and fair across all QBs.</P>


To be fair, I actually haven't been on Sanchezs case since he is in his 3rd year. But he has to show improvement as Eli did year in and year out, and this year he regressed. But I still give him the benefit of the doubt. So yea some of US guys are fair. And once I heard about all the issues in the Jets locker room. I thought about Eli and if it actually had a affect/role. Apparently it affected Eli and now Mark. But again Eli still improved each year from his rookie year till this year and possibly further on.</P>


What Toomer said is what had been said / rumored for years. Shockey was a tacky tool. I never liked his attitude. I give him props for playing through injuries (he was chronically injured), but I'm not into the "look at me" players. I didn't hate the guy, but I knew that he was a jackass. </P>


I was hoping to see him stick around after '07 ONLY if he changed his attitude, and plus the depth at TE with he and Boss. He may have had some legit complaints about how he was treated during the SB week (I'd love to hear the real story on all that), but when he threw his hissy fit in training camp I was more than happy to see him traded for a 2nd and a 5th (even though JR did not parlay those into good picks). </P>


Good for Eli -- the good guy is winning in the end. But young QB's have to learn a lesson from this as well -- listen to the veterans when they seem DESERVING of listening to. As the QB, you gotta be willing to lay down the law, even if you're young.</P>


And everything that Sanchez is going through is exactly why Eli's first few years popped into my mind, too. The Jets need to clean house and get better attitudes around Sanchez.</P>

JJC7301
02-02-2012, 12:38 PM
It was easy for me to see the malcontents on the team when I started tuning in at the beginning of '04. I think the true Giant fans...which I can never claim to be...as much as I would like to...had their hearts broken by some of these guys. Not having any attachments to anyone, it was plain as day. It's just fortunate that management didn't have the same attachments.</P>


That team of players in '04 pissed me off when they were complaining about Coughlin. TC was brought in specifically because the team underachieved, made stupid mistakes, and talked garbage all of the time. By '06, I would have had no problem if the FO cleaned house and got rid of 90% of the players. </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 12:42 PM
I always loved Shockey. I didn't even mind the showing up or showing off he would do when he didn't get the ball or he felt the ball was thrown out of reach.

But I gave up on shockey in 07 when he dropped a pass and Eli goes over to him on the bench to presumably tell him to get his head and in the game and then when Eli walked away you can read Shockey's lips very clearly "I don't Care"

I expect a QB to deal with recievers insisting that they are always open but I don't expect a QB to deal with players underminding his authority.

That means if Shockey was saying "Eli I'm open throw me the ball" in the huddle Eli should be able to deal with that by either telling him "Hey I see you, don't worry." Or shut the hell up. You play TE and I'll play Quarterback"

But if the TE cant fall in and let the QB have the last word either way then he's got a problem and should be removed.

I don't like the word cancer. Its over used but Shockey was clearly a problem for Eli.

i think it was hard situation for Eli to do that. You still had to deal with Tiki, Shockey nad PLax were good friends...

You have to find a balance of making everyone happy and making the right decisions while keeping everybody supporting you.

Tough spot for Eli, thank god Reese was able to see this and just got rid of Shockey. I agree I loved shockey, sucks he couldn't just not be a ****** to his own QB.

Its like he could never get over letting Collins and Warner go


I agree it was a tough spot for Eli, I think Tiki was huge problem as I get the feeling he was trying to run the ship a bit.

As tough as it must have been thats really part of the Job descrtiption. Leader of men and all that J***.

But I find it interesting because in my opinion Eli got better once Tiki and Shockey were gone and got even better once Plax was gone.

the interesting thing about Plax leaving was like it was a kid learning to drive a bike without his training wheels

like when the training wheels were on u knew u wouldn't fall, u knew u could always toss it up to plax

once the training wheels were off (plax left), u were forced to figure it your balance and eli was forced to figure out his balance and how to spread the ball around

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 12:44 PM
It was easy for me to see the malcontents on the team when I started tuning in at the beginning of '04. I think the true Giant fans...which I can never claim to be...as much as I would like to...had their hearts broken by some of these guys. Not having any attachments to anyone, it was plain as day. It's just fortunate that management didn't have the same attachments.</p>


That team of players in '04 pissed me off when they were complaining about Coughlin. TC was brought in specifically because the team underachieved, made stupid mistakes, and talked garbage all of the time. By '06, I would have had no problem if the FO cleaned house and got rid of 90% of the players. </p>

im on the fence about that

Im not sure if it was just a culture shock from having CAMP FASSELL or if Coughlin was actually that bad. I read Strahans book and he said that it took a meeting with players to lighten coughlin up a lil bit

it could of been a bit of both

burier
02-02-2012, 01:19 PM
I always loved Shockey. I didn't even mind the showing up or showing off he would do when he didn't get the ball or he felt the ball was thrown out of reach.

But I gave up on shockey in 07 when he dropped a pass and Eli goes over to him on the bench to presumably tell him to get his head and in the game and then when Eli walked away you can read Shockey's lips very clearly "I don't Care"

I expect a QB to deal with recievers insisting that they are always open but I don't expect a QB to deal with players underminding his authority.

That means if Shockey was saying "Eli I'm open throw me the ball" in the huddle Eli should be able to deal with that by either telling him "Hey I see you, don't worry." Or shut the hell up. You play TE and I'll play Quarterback"

But if the TE cant fall in and let the QB have the last word either way then he's got a problem and should be removed.

I don't like the word cancer. Its over used but Shockey was clearly a problem for Eli.

i think it was hard situation for Eli to do that. You still had to deal with Tiki, Shockey nad PLax were good friends...

You have to find a balance of making everyone happy and making the right decisions while keeping everybody supporting you.

Tough spot for Eli, thank god Reese was able to see this and just got rid of Shockey. I agree I loved shockey, sucks he couldn't just not be a ****** to his own QB.

Its like he could never get over letting Collins and Warner go


I agree it was a tough spot for Eli, I think Tiki was huge problem as I get the feeling he was trying to run the ship a bit.

As tough as it must have been thats really part of the Job descrtiption. Leader of men and all that J***.

But I find it interesting because in my opinion Eli got better once Tiki and Shockey were gone and got even better once Plax was gone.

the interesting thing about Plax leaving was like it was a kid learning to drive a bike without his training wheels

like when the training wheels were on u knew u wouldn't fall, u knew u could always toss it up to plax

once the training wheels were off (plax left), u were forced to figure it your balance and eli was forced to figure out his balance and how to spread the ball around


I always knew he had it in him because he flashed it even as a rookie.

He is a win at all costs kinda guy. He just figures out what needs to be done.

TrueBlue@NYC
02-02-2012, 01:27 PM
Glad Toomer came otu with this, Shockey was always overrated and it just further proves that his mouth was bigger than his game. </P>


He was boasted as a big time TE, talked like one. Gets hurt and his 5th round rookie replacement plays to an adequate level that shows how unimportant shockey was to the offense. </P>


Goes to the one place, back to his original OC, where if he was to become the dominant TE he claimed to be . That's where it would be, and he ends up being a part-time player who'se quickly replaced by Graham who, in the same offense, becomes a 1,000 yard TE. </P>


And now he backs up Greg Olsen in CAR. </P>


He's got two SB rings, unfortunately when his kids asked what he did to get them, the best he'll be able to say is "I caught a 2 yard slant for a TD against a 5'9" CB." </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 01:32 PM
Glad Toomer came otu with this, Shockey was always overrated and it just further proves that his mouth was bigger than his game. </p>


He was boasted as a big time TE, talked like one. Gets hurt and his 5th round rookie replacement plays to an adequate level that shows how unimportant shockey was to the offense. </p>


Goes to the one place, back to his original OC, where if he was to become the dominant TE he claimed to be . That's where it would be, and he ends up being a part-time player who'se quickly replaced by Graham who, in the same offense, becomes a 1,000 yard TE. </p>


And now he backs up Greg Olsen in CAR. </p>


He's got two SB rings, unfortunately when his kids asked what he did to get them, the best he'll be able to say is "I caught a 2 yard slant for a TD against a 5'9" CB." </p>

... and now an undrafted rookie who was known as a blocking TE is putting up similiar numbers to shockey as well lol

DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 02:35 PM
It was easy for me to see the malcontents on the team when I started tuning in at the beginning of '04. I think the true Giant fans...which I can never claim to be...as much as I would like to...had their hearts broken by some of these guys. Not having any attachments to anyone, it was plain as day. It's just fortunate that management didn't have the same attachments.</P>


That team of players in '04 pissed me off when they were complaining about Coughlin.* TC was brought in specifically because the team underachieved, made stupid mistakes, and talked garbage all of the time.* By '06, I would have had no problem if the FO cleaned house and got rid of 90% of the players.* </P>Agreed. TC was one of a few head coaches I wanted. I felt TC would fit great as the team needed discipline after what happened w/Fassel. That is also another reason I was Glad we got Eli. From reading everything back then not only could he make players around him better and be clutch but he had the right attitude/demeanor for NY/NJ.

When Shockey got hurt in 07. I said I would like him back only if he changes, if not its time to move on.

They already said they won't move Holmes. So Mark is gonna be screwed again. I guess thats karma for trying to get a discount from the pizza place they ordered food from in mini-camp.

DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 02:39 PM
Glad Toomer came otu with this, Shockey was always overrated and it just further proves that his mouth was bigger than his game. </P>


He was boasted as a big time TE, talked like one. Gets hurt and his 5th round rookie replacement plays to an adequate level that shows how unimportant shockey was to the offense. </P>


Goes to the one place, back to his original OC, where if he was to become the dominant TE he claimed to be . That's where it would be, and he ends up being a part-time player who'se quickly replaced by Graham who, in the same offense, becomes a 1,000 yard TE. </P>


And now he backs up Greg Olsen in CAR. </P>


He's got two SB rings, unfortunately when his kids asked what he did to get them, the best he'll be able to say is "I caught a 2 yard slant for a TD against a 5'9" CB." </P>Actually he will tell his kids....
First SB I broke my leg, got out of the way for the NYG, and the won the SB.

Second SB I was a bad teammate and was traded to an already high powered offense that won their first ever SB, but then traded me because I was not a team player.

SweetZombieJesus
02-02-2012, 04:09 PM
To be fair, I actually haven't been on Sanchezs case since he is in his 3rd year. But he has to show improvement as Eli did year in and year out, and this year he regressed. But I still give him the benefit of the doubt.

So yea some of US guys are fair. And once I heard about all the issues in the Jets locker room. I thought about Eli and if it actually had a affect/role. Apparently it affected Eli and now Mark. But again Eli still improved each year from his rookie year till this year and possibly further on.

Not only that but the Jets' WIN NOW "strategy" means that the pieces are constantly moving. In three years, he's had to deal with corps of (Clowney, Cotchery, Smith, Stuckey, Wright, Edwards) (Holmes, Turner) (Burress, Kurley) and the RB corps has changed over just as much. No stability whatsoever.

DragonSoul
02-02-2012, 06:57 PM
To be fair, I actually haven't been on Sanchezs case since he is in his 3rd year. But he has to show improvement as Eli did year in and year out, and this year he regressed. But I still give him the benefit of the doubt.

So yea some of US guys are fair. And once I heard about all the issues in the Jets locker room. I thought about Eli and if it actually had a affect/role. Apparently it affected Eli and now Mark. But again Eli still improved each year from his rookie year till this year and possibly further on.

Not only that but the Jets' WIN NOW "strategy" means that the pieces are constantly moving.* In three years, he's had to deal with corps of (Clowney, Cotchery, Smith, Stuckey, Wright, Edwards) (Holmes, Turner) (Burress, Kurley) and the RB corps has changed over just as much.* No stability whatsoever.
I am open minded unless he regresses again (year 4 by then). Eli improved yearly, that was the big thing with him. He had bumps in the road but still improved early.

Most were saying before the Buress pick up, and getting rid of the Vets, he was improving, but took a regression because of them. So the new year will be interesting.

I have no ill will for this kid, as I do not know him. If he does great, then good for him and the Jets. If not well obviously not everyone makes it. But the jury is still out & rightfully so.

MattMeyerBud
02-06-2012, 10:17 AM
a bump - i saw an old visitor wtih a cowboy hat that I wanted to bring this to the attention of

TWO SUPERBOWLS

DragonSoul
02-06-2012, 01:37 PM
a bump - i saw an old visitor wtih a cowboy hat that I wanted to bring this to the attention of

TWO SUPERBOWLS
lmfao

GmenFan1980
02-06-2012, 01:40 PM
What i think about this bump even though i laughed....

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/2/21/129112820868345993.jpg