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View Full Version : Carlos Rogers said he couldnt cover cruz



Sintim97
02-02-2012, 09:13 AM
this is a pro bowl corner

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d8265c557/Sound-FX-Giants-vs-49ers-first-half

2:18 "i cant cover no option route all day!...when i go inside, the man go outside

how in the world can edleman, a WR, cover him? if they double nicks AND cruz, thatll be risky from a defensive perspective

gumby742
02-02-2012, 09:18 AM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan.

nycisgreat
02-02-2012, 09:59 AM
Wow! I didn't expect that. I know cruz had a over a 100 yards against the niners in the NFC championship game, but I still thought that they played him well. He really didn't get that break out play that I was hoping for during that game.

Sintim97
02-02-2012, 10:07 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though

G-Man67
02-02-2012, 10:08 AM
option route all day really disturbs me.* Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do?* If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG.* I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency.* With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine.* I'm not a fan.

yeah the NFL has moved beyond student body right, time to brush up on the new NFL

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:10 AM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan.

yes

it comes from Gilbride. He came up being a Run and Shoot guy and thats pretty much the only thing the run and shoot did. He took that concept and brought it to us and created his own offense really, which is like a hybrid-balanced run and shoot.

yoeddy
02-02-2012, 10:14 AM
option route all day really disturbs me.* Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do?* If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG.* I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency.* With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine.* I'm not a fan.

Its probably why Belichick said in 2007 that the Giants' offense is so hard to defend...anything simpler, and Belichick's schemes would shut it down easily...

yoeddy
02-02-2012, 10:15 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though


KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

Ruttiger711
02-02-2012, 10:22 AM
this is a pro bowl corner

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d8265c557/Sound-FX-Giants-vs-49ers-first-half

2:18 "i cant cover no option route all day!...when i go inside, the man go outside

how in the world can edleman, a WR, cover him? if they double nicks AND cruz, thatll be risky from a defensive perspective
</P>


The biggest enemy to these types of routes is pressure on Eli... </P>


The "option" is to take whatever the db's give you.... in the video you see Cruz WORKING Rodgers and like he said theres no way he can cover that all day... if theres too much pressure in Eli's face though (as there was later in that game) there's just not the time to get it to him.</P>


I know this isnt ground breaking news but I just dont see NE being able to pressure like San Fran did in the 2nd half. </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:24 AM
this is a pro bowl corner

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d8265c557/Sound-FX-Giants-vs-49ers-first-half

2:18 "i cant cover no option route all day!...when i go inside, the man go outside

how in the world can edleman, a WR, cover him? if they double nicks AND cruz, thatll be risky from a defensive perspective
</p>


The biggest enemy to these types of routes is pressure on Eli... </p>


The "option" is to take whatever the db's give you.... in the video you see Cruz WORKING Rodgers and like he said theres no way he can cover that all day... if theres too much pressure in Eli's face though (as there was later in that game) there's just not the time to get it to him.</p>


I know this isnt ground breaking news but I just dont see NE being able to pressure like San Fran did in the 2nd half. </p>

don't sleep on NE's front 7

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:24 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though


KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

we run alot of screens I think

Sintim97
02-02-2012, 10:25 AM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan.

yes

it comes from Gilbride. He came up being a Run and Shoot guy and thats pretty much the only thing the run and shoot did. He took that concept and brought it to us and created his own offense really, which is like a hybrid-balanced run and shoot.


isnt a balanced run and shoot the same thing as a run and shoot? lol

JesseJames
02-02-2012, 10:26 AM
IMO option routes are the cause of INTs, it forces the QB and the receiver to read each others minds and therein lies the problem..

Sintim97
02-02-2012, 10:26 AM
this is a pro bowl corner

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d8265c557/Sound-FX-Giants-vs-49ers-first-half

2:18 "i cant cover no option route all day!...when i go inside, the man go outside

how in the world can edleman, a WR, cover him? if they double nicks AND cruz, thatll be risky from a defensive perspective
</p>


The biggest enemy to these types of routes is pressure on Eli... </p>


The "option" is to take whatever the db's give you.... in the video you see Cruz WORKING Rodgers and like he said theres no way he can cover that all day... if theres too much pressure in Eli's face though (as there was later in that game) there's just not the time to get it to him.</p>


I know this isnt ground breaking news but I just dont see NE being able to pressure like San Fran did in the 2nd half. </p>

which wont happen on sunday

ny06
02-02-2012, 10:27 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though
KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

<FONT color=#0000ff>we run alot of screens</FONT> I think
</P>


No we don't</P>


We run the bubble screen to our receivers, and at times we put Ware or Bradshaw out on the flank for a quick pass. </P>


We haven't been a screen team since Derek Ward left. </P>

Ruttiger711
02-02-2012, 10:29 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though
KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

<FONT color=#0000ff>we run alot of screens</FONT> I think
</P>


No we don't</P>


We run the bubble screen to our receivers, and at times we put Ware or Bradshaw out on the flank for a quick pass. </P>


We haven't been a screen team since Derek Ward left. </P>


</P>


when we have run them lately they have just been terrible</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:41 AM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan.

yes

it comes from Gilbride. He came up being a Run and Shoot guy and thats pretty much the only thing the run and shoot did. He took that concept and brought it to us and created his own offense really, which is like a hybrid-balanced run and shoot.


isnt a balanced run and shoot the same thing as a run and shoot? lol


na because we took the passing concepts is what we took

run and shoot also relied on a mobile QB (like Warren Moon for instance).

We also factored in some thing that made the run n shoot unsuccessful like: TIGHT ENDS AND FULL BACKS.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:43 AM
IMO option routes are the cause of INTs, it forces the QB and the receiver to read each others minds and therein lies the problem..

its absolutely true

all QBs that have thrownin a system with Gilbride have had their career highs in INTs - Warren Moon and Mark Brunell

but it also leads to alot of TDs and big plays

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:44 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though
KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

<font color="#0000ff">we run alot of screens</font> I think
</p>


No we don't</p>


We run the bubble screen to our receivers, and at times we put Ware or Bradshaw out on the flank for a quick pass. </p>


We haven't been a screen team since Derek Ward left. </p>

well i just consider bubble and rocket screens the to be screens

lol

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:45 AM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan.

yes

it comes from Gilbride. He came up being a Run and Shoot guy and thats pretty much the only thing the run and shoot did. He took that concept and brought it to us and created his own offense really, which is like a hybrid-balanced run and shoot.


isnt a balanced run and shoot the same thing as a run and shoot? lol


na because we took the passing concepts is what we took

run and shoot also relied on a mobile QB (like Warren Moon for instance).

We also factored in some thing that made the run n shoot unsuccessful like: TIGHT ENDS AND FULL BACKS.




And another thing about the run and shoot is that it usually leads to passing more than running while with the Giants Gilbride has been pretty consistant that within the game to keep it 50/50 until we have to start throwing

SackingMyths
02-02-2012, 10:47 AM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan.

Its probably why Belichick said in 2007 that the Giants' offense is so hard to defend...anything simpler, and Belichick's schemes would shut it down easily...

Yep. Difficult to be a DB when pre-snap you don't know where the receiver is headed...because even the receiver doesn't know where he's headed.

When done correctly, it's near-impossible to stop. When done incorrectly, it's an eyesore.

Ruttiger711
02-02-2012, 10:52 AM
IMO option routes are the cause of INTs, it forces the QB and the receiver to read each others minds and therein lies the problem..

its absolutely true

all QBs that have thrownin a system with Gilbride have had their career highs in INTs - Warren Moon and Mark Brunell

but it also leads to alot of TDs and big plays


</P>


...and leads to a lot of the "not being on the same page" comments....and times where you see Eli throw to a spot where NO one is at... as much as the receivers are reading and reacting to the DB's Eli's reading and reacting to all of them... </P>


a good example is the pick Eli threw in the reg season san fran game... it was Eli's fault, it was Rio's fault... this was debated for pages... its a product of the system (not a knock on kg)</P>


Eli's patience, the WR's making the catches and as this season went on the OL doing miles better in giving time are the reason this offense is so dangerous now. Toomer had a quote about it once that its a tough offense to learn, but once it gets going its practically unstoppable. </P>

Itlan
02-02-2012, 10:54 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though
KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

<FONT color=#0000ff>we run alot of screens</FONT> I think
</P>


No we don't</P>


We run the bubble screen to our receivers, and at times we put Ware or Bradshaw out on the flank for a quick pass. </P>


We haven't been a screen team since Derek Ward left. </P>We don't run traditional screens. They do this weird inside screen, which usually leaves Bradshaw or a TE getting blown up for like a 3 yard loss. I don't know why they do it.

nygsb42champs
02-02-2012, 10:56 AM
I think Belichek will have a plan for Cruz. If he leaves Edelman on Cruz in the slot he has lost his mind.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 10:59 AM
IMO option routes are the cause of INTs, it forces the QB and the receiver to read each others minds and therein lies the problem..

its absolutely true

all QBs that have thrownin a system with Gilbride have had their career highs in INTs - Warren Moon and Mark Brunell

but it also leads to alot of TDs and big plays


</p>


...and leads to a lot of the "not being on the same page" comments....and times where you see Eli throw to a spot where NO one is at... as much as the receivers are reading and reacting to the DB's Eli's reading and reacting to all of them... </p>


a good example is the pick Eli threw in the reg season san fran game... it was Eli's fault, it was Rio's fault... this was debated for pages... its a product of the system (not a knock on kg)</p>


Eli's patience, the WR's making the catches and as this season went on the OL doing miles better in giving time are the reason this offense is so dangerous now. Toomer had a quote about it once that its a tough offense to learn, but once it gets going its practically unstoppable. </p>

your talking about the reg season game right?

At first glance I thought it was Mario

When I went home I think it was just an issue of a flaw in the concept... eli was under pressure and had to get rid of it but Mario was focusing on his read of where to break the route and he made the right choice (he was wide open). If I HAD to blame anybody it would of been Eli, but its hard seeing as that he felt rushed

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:01 AM
I think Belichek will have a plan for Cruz. If he leaves Edelman on Cruz in the slot he has lost his mind.

I don't care if hes putting Edelman on Manningham, i still think hes crazy... Manningham will **** on him all day

He did a decent job on Boldin, but this ain't Flacco throwin the ball. Just have to hold on to the ball, i notice Edelman looks to strip the ball when hes beat. Infact he made Boldin fumble which lead to that 3rd and 1 or first down situation where some Ravens thought they got the first

yoeddy
02-02-2012, 11:09 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though
KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

<FONT color=#0000ff>we run alot of screens</FONT> I think
</P>


No we don't</P>


We run the bubble screen to our receivers, and at times we put Ware or Bradshaw out on the flank for a quick pass. </P>


We haven't been a screen team since Derek Ward left. </P>

We may not be a "screen team", but we do call HB screens a few times each game. But more times than not, it's covered so Eli just dumps the ball to the ground...

Ruttiger711
02-02-2012, 11:14 AM
IMO option routes are the cause of INTs, it forces the QB and the receiver to read each others minds and therein lies the problem..

its absolutely true

all QBs that have thrownin a system with Gilbride have had their career highs in INTs - Warren Moon and Mark Brunell

but it also leads to alot of TDs and big plays


</P>


...and leads to a lot of the "not being on the same page" comments....and times where you see Eli throw to a spot where NO one is at... as much as the receivers are reading and reacting to the DB's Eli's reading and reacting to all of them... </P>


a good example is the pick Eli threw in the reg season san fran game... it was Eli's fault, it was Rio's fault... this was debated for pages... its a product of the system (not a knock on kg)</P>


Eli's patience, the WR's making the catches and as this season went on the OL doing miles better in giving time are the reason this offense is so dangerous now. Toomer had a quote about it once that its a tough offense to learn, but once it gets going its practically unstoppable. </P>




your talking about the reg season game right?

At first glance I thought it was Mario

When I went home I think it was just an issue of a flaw in the concept... eli was under pressure and had to get rid of it but Mario was focusing on his read of where to break the route and he made the right choice (he was wide open). If I HAD to blame anybody it would of been Eli, but its hard seeing as that he felt rushed
</P>


Yep that one - and goes to my point as the pressure comes... the effectiveness of the "ny run and shoot" goes down... </P>


I'd have to watch it again but Rio could have done some sort of pre-cut juke to lead Eli to believe he was going to continue inside... since he was rushed he didnt have time to see where he ultimately went... but yes Eli shoudl have guessed outside, where the 3 defenders weren't :)</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:20 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though
KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

<font color="#0000ff">we run alot of screens</font> I think
</p>


No we don't</p>


We run the bubble screen to our receivers, and at times we put Ware or Bradshaw out on the flank for a quick pass. </p>


We haven't been a screen team since Derek Ward left. </p>

We may not be a "screen team", but we do call HB screens a few times each game. But more times than not, it's covered so Eli just dumps the ball to the ground...

another great point that has happened alot on screens

GMenNY21
02-02-2012, 11:20 AM
Cruz with option routes is just about unstoppable.. I just think there not for everybody.... Manningham seems to have trouble with them at times

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:21 AM
IMO option routes are the cause of INTs, it forces the QB and the receiver to read each others minds and therein lies the problem..

its absolutely true

all QBs that have thrownin a system with Gilbride have had their career highs in INTs - Warren Moon and Mark Brunell

but it also leads to alot of TDs and big plays


</p>


...and leads to a lot of the "not being on the same page" comments....and times where you see Eli throw to a spot where NO one is at... as much as the receivers are reading and reacting to the DB's Eli's reading and reacting to all of them... </p>


a good example is the pick Eli threw in the reg season san fran game... it was Eli's fault, it was Rio's fault... this was debated for pages... its a product of the system (not a knock on kg)</p>


Eli's patience, the WR's making the catches and as this season went on the OL doing miles better in giving time are the reason this offense is so dangerous now. Toomer had a quote about it once that its a tough offense to learn, but once it gets going its practically unstoppable. </p>




your talking about the reg season game right?

At first glance I thought it was Mario

When I went home I think it was just an issue of a flaw in the concept... eli was under pressure and had to get rid of it but Mario was focusing on his read of where to break the route and he made the right choice (he was wide open). If I HAD to blame anybody it would of been Eli, but its hard seeing as that he felt rushed
</p>


Yep that one - and goes to my point as the pressure comes... the effectiveness of the "ny run and shoot" goes down... </p>


I'd have to watch it again but Rio could have done some sort of pre-cut juke to lead Eli to believe he was going to continue inside... since he was rushed he didnt have time to see where he ultimately went... but yes Eli shoudl have guessed outside, where the 3 defenders weren't :)</p>

yea

I mean personally, I don't think had Rio kept his route going across the middle he would of been able to get to it anyway

So I think we have to put that one on Eli

NY_Eli
02-02-2012, 11:21 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though
KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

<font color="#0000ff">we run alot of screens</font> I think
</p>


No we don't</p>


We run the bubble screen to our receivers, and at times we put Ware or Bradshaw out on the flank for a quick pass. </p>


We haven't been a screen team since Derek Ward left. </p>

We may not be a "screen team", but we do call HB screens a few times each game. But more times than not, it's covered so Eli just dumps the ball to the ground...

another great point that has happened alot on screens


They've had success throwing screens to Nicks this year

yoeddy
02-02-2012, 11:21 AM
IMO option routes are the cause of INTs, it forces the QB and the receiver to read each others minds and therein lies the problem..

its absolutely true

all QBs that have thrownin a system with Gilbride have had their career highs in INTs - Warren Moon and Mark Brunell

but it also leads to alot of TDs and big plays


</P>


...and leads to a lot of the "not being on the same page" comments....and times where you see Eli throw to a spot where NO one is at... as much as the receivers are reading and reacting to the DB's Eli's reading and reacting to all of them... </P>


a good example is the pick Eli threw in the reg season san fran game... it was Eli's fault, it was Rio's fault... this was debated for pages... its a product of the system (not a knock on kg)</P>


Eli's patience, the WR's making the catches and as this season went on the OL doing miles better in giving time are the reason this offense is so dangerous now.* Toomer had a quote about it once that its a tough offense to learn, but once it gets going its practically unstoppable.* </P>




your talking about the reg season game right?

At first glance I thought it was Mario

When I went home I think it was just an issue of a flaw in the concept... eli was under pressure and had to get rid of it but Mario was focusing on his read of where to break the route and he made the right choice (he was wide open).* If I HAD to blame anybody it would of been Eli, but its hard seeing as that he felt rushed
</P>


Yep that one - and goes to my point as the pressure comes... the effectiveness of the "ny run and shoot" goes down... </P>


I'd have to watch it again but Rio could have done some sort of pre-cut juke to lead Eli to believe he was going to continue inside... since he was rushed he didnt have time to see where he ultimately went... but yes Eli shoudl have guessed outside, where the 3 defenders weren't :)</P>

I think that pretty much any offense will have problems if pressure comes. In the Giant offense, if pressure comes via a blitz, the option for the WR is to then run a hot route, and Eli then has an outlet. If the pressure comes from a 4-man rush, then Eli has the same problems that every other QB facing 4-man pressure does...

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 11:23 AM
This is the main reason why Eli had those INTs..this is what makes the Giants hard to defend. Bellichick or no Bellichick... you can't really make a plan for read and react option offense.

What Cruz does is finish his routes and fakes where he's going first and finishes the initial route. On one play vs SF it was a corner route but he went straight up the middle off the jam from Rogers, Eli called him in and told him "I read you going corner" and Cruz later on did it on the right side vs Rogers a pro bowl DB.

What I see them, the Pats doing, is sending Wilfork up to rush Eli, force him to step up the middle, they'll 1 on 1 Nicks until he catches a big one, they'll double team Cruz and attempt to jam him in the slot, but this is where the running game can hurt New England, your sending doubles to our WRs and leaving the 2nd tier of defense empty. If Jake Ballard is healthy, it could get really ugly. Everyone forgot about him.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:24 AM
Cruz with option routes is just about unstoppable.. I just think there not for everybody.... Manningham seems to have trouble with them at times

I actually disagree

what makes u say that?

Only knock on Rio is that he doesn't cleanly catch balls at times

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:25 AM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though
KG calls them pretty often, actually...but the team either does a horrible job setting them up or something on the offense gives it away, because the opposing team always seems to have it covered...

<font color="#0000ff">we run alot of screens</font> I think
</p>


No we don't</p>


We run the bubble screen to our receivers, and at times we put Ware or Bradshaw out on the flank for a quick pass. </p>


We haven't been a screen team since Derek Ward left. </p>

We may not be a "screen team", but we do call HB screens a few times each game. But more times than not, it's covered so Eli just dumps the ball to the ground...

another great point that has happened alot on screens


They've had success throwing screens to Nicks this year

well he said running back screens

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 11:31 AM
Cruz with option routes is just about unstoppable.. I just think there not for everybody.... Manningham seems to have trouble with them at times

I actually disagree

what makes u say that?

Only knock on Rio is that he doesn't cleanly catch balls at times


He's actually right. Mario has trouble w/ the option b/c he doesn't come back to the ball. He's thinking of breaking one and when it's not there leaves the ball at times. He's not doing it now but that's b/c he doesn't have to think about it now that Cruz & Nicks have taken the pressure off him. The role Mario is playing right now is sort of the TE/WR role. The way we're using him reminds me of how the Jets used Keyshawn.

freeoscar
02-02-2012, 11:36 AM
it seems that fewell's D also calls for a lot of reads and communication by the the players. Coughlin puts a lot on the players. This is why we have such high highs and low lows. Its why if we are able to keep our skill guys healthy next year I can see the giant's having a big year.

GMenNY21
02-02-2012, 11:46 AM
Cruz with option routes is just about unstoppable.. I just think there not for everybody.... Manningham seems to have trouble with them at times

I actually disagree

what makes u say that?

Only knock on Rio is that he doesn't cleanly catch balls at times
the pick from the first frisco game was on ham running a route that wasn't what was ideal for that play. Eli wanted him midfield, instead ran vertically .... I'm not saying ham can't wrong options routes , but out of Cruz & nicks & Ballard .. most of miscommunication seems to happen with Eli to Rio

burier
02-02-2012, 11:47 AM
I took Carlos Rogers as saying we need to get more pressure on the QB than "I can't cover him"

One thing I'll say about our offense is that is lends itself to INTS which is why I find it so hilarious that people want to hang on to Eli's INT numbers from a year ago.

You get a couple guys in the Wr corps hurt and the way the offense is set up the INT numbers are bound to spike.

Eli once threw 10 INTs in a season which I throw away as it is not characteristic of Eli's career.

Same goes for the 25 ints.

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 11:48 AM
You've hit it on the nail. That's why Hixon was a favorite target of Eli early in the yr. b/c he was good at this. So is Ballard. Now Cruz.

Here's what it looks like, Irvin and Warner basically explain the read and react.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82685a9d/A-dynamic-demonstration?continuous=true

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:49 AM
Cruz with option routes is just about unstoppable.. I just think there not for everybody.... Manningham seems to have trouble with them at times

I actually disagree

what makes u say that?

Only knock on Rio is that he doesn't cleanly catch balls at times
the pick from the first frisco game was on ham running a route that wasn't what was ideal for that play. Eli wanted him midfield, instead ran vertically .... I'm not saying ham can't wrong options routes , but out of Cruz &amp; nicks &amp; Ballard .. most of miscommunication seems to happen with Eli to Rio

we actually just got done talking about that play and your def wrong...

IF the blame were to go to anybody it would of been to Eli

Eli missed the read AND threw a bad ball. Im not sure had Rio continued that route that he would of been able to get there.

Its not where Eli WANTS them to go, its what the defense gives us. We change routes on the run and Eli clearly missed the re-route. I haven't really seen too many mis communications this year but I have def seen plenty with Cruz as well

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:53 AM
it seems that fewell's D also calls for a lot of reads and communication by the the players. Coughlin puts a lot on the players. This is why we have such high highs and low lows. Its why if we are able to keep our skill guys healthy next year I can see the giant's having a big year.

well thats any defense...

you have to communicate on defense. The offense motions or comes out lined up a different way, you have to be sure that everybody is on the same page.

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 11:53 AM
Cruz with option routes is just about unstoppable.. I just think there not for everybody.... Manningham seems to have trouble with them at times

I actually disagree

what makes u say that?

Only knock on Rio is that he doesn't cleanly catch balls at times
the pick from the first frisco game was on ham running a route that wasn't what was ideal for that play. Eli wanted him midfield, instead ran vertically .... I'm not saying ham can't wrong options routes , but out of Cruz & nicks & Ballard .. most of miscommunication seems to happen with Eli to Rio

we actually just got done talking about that play and your def wrong...

IF the blame were to go to anybody it would of been to Eli

Eli missed the read AND threw a bad ball. Im not sure had Rio continued that route that he would of been able to get there.

Its not where Eli WANTS them to go, its what the defense gives us. We change routes on the run and Eli clearly missed the re-route.* I haven't really seen too many mis communications this year but I have def seen plenty with Cruz as well


They run 2 different types of options, one is read and react, on others it's routes. What confused Mario is when he reads a DB opening up and the play is like a corner route, or go route, he does the option route and completely breaks up the initial play. Eli has to read all of this w/ the pass rush coming at him. It causes trouble.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 11:56 AM
Cruz with option routes is just about unstoppable.. I just think there not for everybody.... Manningham seems to have trouble with them at times

I actually disagree

what makes u say that?

Only knock on Rio is that he doesn't cleanly catch balls at times
the pick from the first frisco game was on ham running a route that wasn't what was ideal for that play. Eli wanted him midfield, instead ran vertically .... I'm not saying ham can't wrong options routes , but out of Cruz &amp; nicks &amp; Ballard .. most of miscommunication seems to happen with Eli to Rio

we actually just got done talking about that play and your def wrong...

IF the blame were to go to anybody it would of been to Eli

Eli missed the read AND threw a bad ball. Im not sure had Rio continued that route that he would of been able to get there.

Its not where Eli WANTS them to go, its what the defense gives us. We change routes on the run and Eli clearly missed the re-route. I haven't really seen too many mis communications this year but I have def seen plenty with Cruz as well


They run 2 different types of options, one is read and react, on others it's routes. What confused Mario is when he reads a DB opening up and the play is like a corner route, or go route, he does the option route and completely breaks up the initial play. Eli has to read all of this w/ the pass rush coming at him. It causes trouble.

exactly and Mario took the option

Eli missed it and didn't see it and it was due to the rush.

BUT either way, I think had Mario continued the route Eli thougth he was on that he wouldn't of gotten there anyway....

Plus keep in mind that Mario was wide open with the option he took

pretty hard to pin that on him

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 11:59 AM
I love Mario too, but he does piss me off when he does that. I think plain and simple, trust your QB there and don't break up plays when he's scrambling, making Eli have to guess what your doing is not what we want.LOLs

On the other side this is why I love Victor Cruz, b/c he is such a quick learner at this and is becoming one of the best in the league at the option route.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 12:12 PM
I love Mario too, but he does piss me off when he does that. I think plain and simple, trust your QB there and don't break up plays when he's scrambling, making Eli have to guess what your doing is not what we want.LOLs

On the other side this is why I love Victor Cruz, b/c he is such a quick learner at this and is becoming one of the best in the league at the option route.

well if i was forced to choose who I am a bigger fan of: Rio or Eli, it would def be eli

that being said, that pick was def on Eli

GMENAGAIN
02-02-2012, 12:16 PM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan.</P>


Why should he stop running it if the best defense in the league is saying that they can't cover it?</P>

yoeddy
02-02-2012, 12:52 PM
option route all day really disturbs me.* Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do?* If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG.* I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency.* With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine.* I'm not a fan.</P>


Why should he stop running it if the best defense in the league is saying that they can't cover it?</P>

On the flip side, I wonder if this "option offense" is partly the cause of the Giants "playing down" to lesser opponents. Maybe less-talented defenses make the options harder to read because defenders aren't doing what is anticipated of them?

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 01:00 PM
dude they did it against the 49ers, it don't get better than that D.

deejaydana
02-02-2012, 01:15 PM
I'm a lifelong Skins fans (go ahead and insert joke here) but Rogers was always over-rated when with us the past 5 years. He's a "Pro Bowler" by virtue of the best front in the game playing with him in SF. With that said, Cruz should be able to light it up for the GMen and if the Pats decide to double him, then Nicks will go to town. Pick your poison. Go NFC East baby!

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 02:18 PM
Exactly, they'll look to double Cruz and hope to use the sideline as an extra defender vs Nicks or Mario and if they try that, you line them up the same side and bang like in the Dallas gif.

http://45.imagebam.com/download/tFoHlbOTWae30rRnFhiS9w/17286/172859769/CruzNicks2.gif


http://42.imagebam.com/download/dbn0u12BpvhAX8i7AnRt-A/17286/172859559/CruzNicks1.gif


another thing people forget is that Cruz and Nicks can block, so if the flat is open for Hynoski or Bradshaw it's big gains.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 02:23 PM
Exactly, they'll look to double Cruz and hope to use the sideline as an extra defender vs Nicks or Mario and if they try that, you line them up the same side and bang like in the Dallas gif.

http://45.imagebam.com/download/tFoHlbOTWae30rRnFhiS9w/17286/172859769/CruzNicks2.gif


http://42.imagebam.com/download/dbn0u12BpvhAX8i7AnRt-A/17286/172859559/CruzNicks1.gif


another thing people forget is that Cruz and Nicks can block, so if the flat is open for Hynoski or Bradshaw it's big gains.

whatever that is, is ****ign awesome

can u get the pick eli threw in San fran in reg season, on the debated mario play?

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 02:28 PM
Exactly, they'll look to double Cruz and hope to use the sideline as an extra defender vs Nicks or Mario and if they try that, you line them up the same side and bang like in the Dallas gif.

http://45.imagebam.com/download/tFoHlbOTWae30rRnFhiS9w/17286/172859769/CruzNicks2.gif


http://42.imagebam.com/download/dbn0u12BpvhAX8i7AnRt-A/17286/172859559/CruzNicks1.gif


another thing people forget is that Cruz and Nicks can block, so if the flat is open for Hynoski or Bradshaw it's big gains.

whatever that is, is ****ign awesome

can u get the pick eli threw in San fran in reg season, on the debated mario play?


What that is, is showing how in the Miami Dolphin game the safetys chose to double Mario and Nicks and left 1 on 1 in the slot to Cruz and were too late to stop him.

Then in the Dallas gif, They line Cruz and Nicks on the same side to disrupt the double team. Cruz beats his slot defender and draws the safety in to him, leaving Nicks 1 on 1 deep threat and while this happened Cruz still beats the double team, as he is already past the 2nd tier and the safety goes to tackle Nicks, Nicks should have scored on that play BTW.

I'll try and get it.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 03:03 PM
no, i get what you are trying to show

im just saying its awesome that u got it. Where did u get it from?

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 03:09 PM
NFL network.

gmen0820
02-02-2012, 03:13 PM
Yeah I posted about this in the Gilbride thread Roanokefan made a week or so ago. It's incredible how this offense runs when jelled.

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 04:04 PM
can u get the pick eli threw in San fran in reg season, on the debated mario play?



I compiled the before and after and Eli's reaction. He clearly knew Mario cut the play.

http://cache.sharenxs.com/images/wz/cabc/af/ac/ac/bf/MM.gif


See how he goes option? and then instead of going to the middle Mario goes outside and Rogers already has Eli picked. IDK why Mario pulled out, that just hurt them. But he hopefully learned a lesson that day.

gametime49er
02-02-2012, 04:08 PM
Our D is good but not where I would like it to be. At least not just yet. We dont have a lockdown secondary. With that being said, provided Eli is given enough time, I see Cruz running circles around NE's secondary all day long.

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 04:11 PM
as long as they finish thier routes.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 04:14 PM
can u get the pick eli threw in San fran in reg season, on the debated mario play?



I compiled the before and after and Eli's reaction. He clearly knew Mario cut the play.

http://cache.sharenxs.com/images/wz/cabc/af/ac/ac/bf/MM.gif


See how he goes option? and then instead of going to the middle Mario goes outside and Rogers already has Eli picked. IDK why Mario pulled out, that just hurt them. But he hopefully learned a lesson that day.

he pulled out because the safteys were flat.

It was a double move that i've seen the GIants run a THOUSAND times...

On the second shot where SF defender is making the pic u can see the open air. Eli misread that play. Its part of living and dying with the option route.

That defender was fighting underneath with no saftey help.. if Eli is on the same page thats a 85 yard bomb TD

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 04:18 PM
They were going for a 1st down over the chains, instead of taking that, Mario bounced out to attempt a bigger gain, this was when his body motion showed middle and once Mario pulled off Eli was setting to throw in a tight window. This was suppose to be a play action pass, the 9ers D bit on the fake hand off. Mario caused that INT.

stormblue
02-02-2012, 04:18 PM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though

remember how Tiki always had as many yards
receiving as he did rushing.
Gilbride was here then.
i think it takes a special type of running back for that.
Tiki , Marshall Faulk , Tomlinson , Walter Payton... etc.
it takes a lot of patience and vision.
our current backs are more aggressive and
don't read blocks very well.
a lot of people think we don't block well...
we don't read blocks very well either.

MattMeyerBud
02-02-2012, 04:23 PM
They were going for a 1st down over the chains, instead of taking that, Mario bounced out to attempt a bigger gain, this was when his body motion showed middle and once Mario pulled off Eli was setting to throw in a tight window. This was suppose to be a play action pass, the 9ers D bit on the fake hand off.

thats what the offense is though...

This is where the complexities of the offense come in. Theres a reason theres a high interception rate and thats its SOOO important that our guys be on the same page. If Mario has the option to make that double move, then it was absolutely on Eli.


If Mario is going to committ to the move hes gotta go full speed and do it. He can't pull back and see if Eli is throwing. They have to make the same reads on the coverage. Mario made a double move and got open. JUST getting the first down or making the right read for the TD. I would take our WRs making the read for the wide open TD every time

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 04:29 PM
They were going for a 1st down over the chains, instead of taking that, Mario bounced out to attempt a bigger gain, this was when his body motion showed middle and once Mario pulled off Eli was setting to throw in a tight window. This was suppose to be a play action pass, the 9ers D bit on the fake hand off.

thats what the offense is though...

This is where the complexities of the offense come in. Theres a reason theres a high interception rate and thats its SOOO important that our guys be on the same page. If Mario has the option to make that double move, then it was absolutely on Eli.*


If Mario is going to committ to the move hes gotta go full speed and do it. He can't pull back and see if Eli is throwing. They have to make the same reads on the coverage. Mario made a double move and got open.* JUST getting the first down or making the right read for the TD. I would take our WRs making the read for the wide open TD every time


I'll take it too, but then I'll also understand when that play is not finished, it's on the WR, b/c if he's there it's a completion. no way Rogers knocks the ball out. Mario made a young WR mistake, he learned from it. B/c after that Victor Cruz became the #2 option instead of the 3rd down WR.

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 04:42 PM
Anywho, Mario is still important and here's an example how Mario and Nicks free up Cruz again, all it takes is one split second. Rogers flinched at Mario and then bang, Cruz nearly took it to the house.

http://56.imagebam.com/download/in_hJZZf8cm-kswEFzKV0w/17288/172877211/Cruz.gif

I hope Ballard is healthy and the run works. This could be a fun Sunday.

gametime49er
02-02-2012, 04:47 PM
can u get the pick eli threw in San fran in reg season, on the debated mario play?



I compiled the before and after and Eli's reaction. He clearly knew Mario cut the play.

http://cache.sharenxs.com/images/wz/cabc/af/ac/ac/bf/MM.gif


See how he goes option? and then instead of going to the middle Mario goes outside and Rogers already has Eli picked. IDK why Mario pulled out, that just hurt them. But he hopefully learned a lesson that day.

he pulled out because the safteys were flat.

It was a double move that i've seen the GIants run a THOUSAND times...

On the second shot where SF defender is making the pic u can see the open air. Eli misread that play. Its part of living and dying with the option route.

That defender was fighting underneath with no saftey help.. if Eli is on the same page thats a 85 yard bomb TD


Lol yeah I remember that one. I flinched because I thought Eli was gonna be money on that pass.

Ruttiger711
02-02-2012, 04:48 PM
They were going for a 1st down over the chains, instead of taking that, Mario bounced out to attempt a bigger gain, this was when his body motion showed middle and once Mario pulled off Eli was setting to throw in a tight window. This was suppose to be a play action pass, the 9ers D bit on the fake hand off.

thats what the offense is though...

This is where the complexities of the offense come in. Theres a reason theres a high interception rate and thats its SOOO important that our guys be on the same page. If Mario has the option to make that double move, then it was absolutely on Eli.


If Mario is going to committ to the move hes gotta go full speed and do it. He can't pull back and see if Eli is throwing. They have to make the same reads on the coverage. Mario made a double move and got open. JUST getting the first down or making the right read for the TD. I would take our WRs making the read for the wide open TD every time
</P>


Just to nit pick after seeing this again I'm thinking Rio should have broke it off sooner. </P>


nyknstill - thanks for putting these up - good stuff...what are you using to make these?</P>

nyknstill!
02-02-2012, 04:49 PM
No problem. Sony Vegas 9.0

Sintim97
02-02-2012, 05:16 PM
dude they did it against the 49ers, it don't get better than that D.

Sintim97
02-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Our D is good but not where I would like it to be. At least not just yet. We dont have a lockdown secondary. With that being said, provided Eli is given enough time, I see Cruz running circles around NE's secondary all day long.

i dont understand why our secondary isnt playing better. dont forget next year we get TT back. not only webster, but the safeties arent as deadly as we all hoped

Sintim97
02-02-2012, 05:21 PM
i wanna know why we NEVER do any running back screens

on a side note... i say we should try a wheel route to jacobs or bradshaw like we did in the first game against the eagles. doubt we will though

remember how Tiki always had as many yards
receiving as he did rushing.
Gilbride was here then.
i think it takes a special type of running back for that.
Tiki , Marshall Faulk , Tomlinson , Walter Payton... etc.
it takes a lot of patience and vision.
our current backs are more aggressive and
don't read blocks very well.
a lot of people think we don't block well...
we don't read blocks very well either.

Scott shouldve been in MUCH more during the season and we shouldve done screens with him. im calling it, Scott will be a stud

miked1958
02-02-2012, 08:00 PM
this is a pro bowl corner

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d8265c557/Sound-FX-Giants-vs-49ers-first-half

2:18 "i cant cover no option route all day!...when i go inside, the man go outside

how in the world can edleman, a WR, cover him? if they double nicks AND cruz, thatll be risky from a defensive perspective

Our guys are a match up nightmare for the Pats. If Ballard is feeing better then watch him have a big game

miked1958
02-02-2012, 08:03 PM
Also expect Eli to burn them using guys they won't pay much attention to.

He will bury them using Ware and Hynoski out of backfield. He will destroy them with Beckum, Thomas, JJ......Pascoe

miked1958
02-02-2012, 08:04 PM
this is a pro bowl corner

http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d8265c557/Sound-FX-Giants-vs-49ers-first-half

2:18 "i cant cover no option route all day!...when i go inside, the man go outside

how in the world can edleman, a WR, cover him? if they double nicks AND cruz, thatll be risky from a defensive perspective

Our guys are a match up nightmare for the Pats. If Ballard is feeing better then watch him have a big game
It's pick your poision. Double this guy and those guys burn u. Double that guy and the other two murder u

Sintim97
02-03-2012, 09:49 AM
yeah buddy

THIRDINF516
02-03-2012, 09:57 AM
option route all day really disturbs me.* Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do?* If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG.* I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency.* With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine.* I'm not a fan.

What is disturbing about it?

The Giants are consistantly in the top 5 or top 10 in offense. Gilbride has never been the problem with the Giants.

Dropped balls have been.

KG doesnt call the right plays at times, but you cant argue with a offense that is always in the top 10 of the NFL.

Sintim97
02-03-2012, 04:16 PM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan.

What is disturbing about it?

The Giants are consistantly in the top 5 or top 10 in offense. Gilbride has never been the problem with the Giants.

Dropped balls have been.

KG doesnt call the right plays at times, but you cant argue with a offense that is always in the top 10 of the NFL.

i just think the offense is so good because of superior talent. if u have highly talented guys and put them in a vanilla offense, theyll do good. not spectacular, but theyll be pretty good. if we had a new orleans type offense...we could very much so be up there with the saints offense. but we're too conservative for that

gmen0820
02-03-2012, 09:38 PM
option route all day really disturbs me.* Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do?* If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG.* I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency.* With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine.* I'm not a fan.

What is disturbing about it?

The Giants are consistantly in the top 5 or top 10 in offense. Gilbride has never been the problem with the Giants.

Dropped balls have been.

KG doesnt call the right plays at times, but you cant argue with a offense that is always in the top 10 of the NFL.

i just think the offense is so good because of superior talent. if u have highly talented guys and put them in a vanilla offense, theyll do good. not spectacular, but theyll be pretty good. if we had a new orleans type offense...we could very much so be up there with the saints offense. but we're too conservative for that
I'll take Gilbride and 2 rings (hopefully), then Sean Payton and 1 ring.

lawl
02-03-2012, 09:41 PM
option route all day really disturbs me. Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do? If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG. I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency. With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine. I'm not a fan. What is disturbing about it? The Giants are consistantly in the top 5 or top 10 in offense. Gilbride has never been the problem with the Giants. Dropped balls have been. KG doesnt call the right plays at times, but you cant argue with a offense that is always in the top 10 of the NFL.

i just think the offense is so good because of superior talent. if u have highly talented guys and put them in a vanilla offense, theyll do good. not spectacular, but theyll be pretty good. if we had a new orleans type offense...we could very much so be up there with the saints offense. but we're too conservative for that
I'll take Gilbride and 2 rings (hopefully), then Sean Payton and 1 ring.</P>


Because they've been coaching for the same amount of time.</P>

gmen0820
02-03-2012, 09:51 PM
option route all day really disturbs me.* Are the Giants the only team that does it as often as they do?* If they are, then I really do have an issue with KG.* I'm always preaching the same thing - consistency.* With this type of offense, I can only guess that it's feast or famine.* I'm not a fan. What is disturbing about it? The Giants are consistantly in the top 5 or top 10 in offense. Gilbride has never been the problem with the Giants. Dropped balls have been. KG doesnt call the right plays at times, but you cant argue with a offense that is always in the top 10 of the NFL.

i just think the offense is so good because of superior talent. if u have highly talented guys and put them in a vanilla offense, theyll do good. not spectacular, but theyll be pretty good. if we had a new orleans type offense...we could very much so be up there with the saints offense. but we're too conservative for that
I'll take Gilbride and 2 rings (hopefully), then Sean Payton and 1 ring.</P>


Because they've been coaching for the same amount of time.</P>From 2007 then, Gilbride's first year as a coordinator.

nyknstill!
02-04-2012, 01:48 AM
Since I'm betting NewEngland is going to throw Cover 2 on us, I can see the Giants attempting what they did vs Dallas w/ the option pass to Cruz to the sideline. This is where Nicks blocking comes in hand.

http://cache.sharenxs.com/images/wz/cabc/af/ac/ae/ab/Cruzvscover2.gif