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MattMeyerBud
02-06-2012, 08:56 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO

nygsb42champs
02-06-2012, 08:57 AM
If they did that on purpose that was a great move.

bLuereverie
02-06-2012, 08:58 AM
12menonthefieldgate!

Kruunch
02-06-2012, 09:00 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO


I was thinking it was accidentally brilliant since it cost them nothing and ensured a TD wasn't made.

Of course had the Pats turned it over right then and that had gotten reversed due to the penalty and then the Pats whent on to win, that might have stuck in my craw.

Hmmmm that scenario sounds familiar now that I think of it.

NYG4ME
02-06-2012, 09:01 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO


Steve Young said sarcastically during the postgame that it was a brilliant move... I started to wonder that as well about the possibility of it being designed. I guess its possible. I'll give up the 5 yards there lol.

gumby742
02-06-2012, 09:03 AM
i coulda sworn there was a rule regarding penalties in the final 2 minutes of the game? Like adding 10 seconds to the clock or something.</P>


btw, check your PM.</P>

GCGiant
02-06-2012, 09:06 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?

miked1958
02-06-2012, 09:08 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO

Wow can this be true? Crazy

MattMeyerBud
02-06-2012, 09:08 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO


I was thinking it was accidentally brilliant since it cost them nothing and ensured a TD wasn't made.

Of course had the Pats turned it over right then and that had gotten reversed due to the penalty and then the Pats whent on to win, that might have stuck in my craw.

Hmmmm that scenario sounds familiar now that I think of it.

yea but I actually think the numbers were in our favor to give up a p0lay for 9 seconds than the odds of a turnover

plus whose to say that it wasn't becuase of the 12th mans presence that the turnover happened

i thought it was on purpose right away and the most brilliant thing ever

LT_was_good
02-06-2012, 09:09 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?

I think you just gave away a new strategy moving forward.

MattMeyerBud
02-06-2012, 09:12 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?

because there was 9 seconds left and then had to go 50 yards in 9 seconds with no timeouts... i'll take that scenerio every time

GameTime
02-06-2012, 09:13 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO
</P>


I totally think it was on purpose. If it was a legit mistake TC would have been fuming on the sidelines...</P>


great move...</P>

swcom120
02-06-2012, 09:13 AM
They touched on this on mike an mike this morning. Apparently some patriot fans were complaining saying that a rule change has to be made to an automatic first down or a 15 yarder. Golic said that buddy Ryan did it back in the day and sent 15 guys on the field. Interesting thought, wonder If it was on purpose?

GameTime
02-06-2012, 09:14 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?

I think you just gave away a new strategy moving forward.
</P>


its too easy and they have to change the rulies regarding that. Like the time goes back on the clock or something. Why not put 15 on the field then.....?</P>

GCGiant
02-06-2012, 09:15 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?

because there was 9 seconds left and then had to go 50 yards in 9 seconds with no timeouts... i'll take that scenerio every time


Yes...but my question is not why did they do it, if they did...but why didn't they put about 10 extra guys out there. It is still only a five yard penalty.

MattMeyerBud
02-06-2012, 09:17 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?

I think you just gave away a new strategy moving forward.
</p>


its too easy and they have to change the rulies regarding that. Like the time goes back on the clock or something. Why not put 15 on the field then.....?</p>

to try and get away with it maybe lol

LT_was_good
02-06-2012, 09:17 AM
What's interesting is it wasn't as though the extra man was running off the field last-minute. I mean would they really have that big of a blunder in a spot like that?

jax5338
02-06-2012, 09:17 AM
i said the same thing. only flaw is you can't pick it off if you get the chance but it is a safe move. a little cheap but I'm sure they'll change the rule soon enough.

JPizzack
02-06-2012, 09:25 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO
</P>


not many people would think about it. but someone brought it up right after the game, and i was like holy **** youre right! brilllllllliant!</P>

swimeasy
02-06-2012, 09:26 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?

because there was 9 seconds left and then had to go 50 yards in 9 seconds with no timeouts... i'll take that scenerio every time


Yes...but my question is not why did they do it, if they did...but why didn't they put about 10 extra guys out there. It is still only a five yard penalty.

Perhaps to keep the illusion of it being a mistake and not calculated if they did (starting to sound like a Seinfeld episode)

I also read about Pats fans wanting a rule change as well. TC did miss the 'allowed Bradshaw TD' so if it was deliberate, I say brillant! Checkmate.

Kruunch
02-06-2012, 10:18 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO


I was thinking it was accidentally brilliant since it cost them nothing and ensured a TD wasn't made.

Of course had the Pats turned it over right then and that had gotten reversed due to the penalty and then the Pats whent on to win, that might have stuck in my craw.

Hmmmm that scenario sounds familiar now that I think of it.

yea but I actually think the numbers were in our favor to give up a p0lay for 9 seconds than the odds of a turnover

plus whose to say that it wasn't becuase of the 12th mans presence that the turnover happened

i thought it was on purpose right away and the most brilliant thing ever


Definitely brilliant.

If it was purposeful, TC needs MUCH more recognition as a masterful coach (including by me).

SweetZombieJesus
02-06-2012, 10:20 AM
That's a rule that needs to change. Just heard Golic say Buddy Ryan used to do it all the time, and said he thinks it even happened once with 15 guys on the field.

Kruunch
02-06-2012, 10:21 AM
That's a rule that needs to change.* Just heard Golic say Buddy Ryan used to do it all the time, and said he thinks it even happened once with 15 guys on the field.


I'd be surprised if they don't implement a reverse run off rule for defensive penalties with under 2 minutes left (put time back on the clock).

Joe Morrison
02-06-2012, 10:26 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO
</P>


Talk about conspiracies, how do you explain the replay showing Tuck trying to run off the field before the play, whay a Pudd</P>

Redeyejedi
02-06-2012, 10:32 AM
Cant refs award a Touchdown if they believe a team is purposely trying to break the rules.Pretty sure thats in the rule book.If u commit successive penalties trying to circumvent the rules

jgrangers11
02-06-2012, 10:36 AM
I was saying last night that they should've done it again on the next play. And what's stopping you from putting your entire team on the field in that spot? In that spot the defense is obviously willing to give up the extra 5 yards to take 8 seconds of the clock.

Easiest way to rectify this situation is to give the other team 5 yards AND the time back on the clock.

DandyDon
02-06-2012, 10:38 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO


It was on purpose - shoudla put the whole team on the field!

Kruunch
02-06-2012, 10:39 AM
Cant refs award a Touchdown if they believe a team is purposely trying to break the rules.Pretty sure thats in the rule book.If u commit successive penalties trying to circumvent the rules

Nope.

Joe Morrison
02-06-2012, 10:40 AM
I was saying last night that they should've done it again on the next play. And what's stopping you from putting your entire team on the field in that spot? In that spot the defense is obviously willing to give up the extra 5 yards to take 8 seconds of the clock. Easiest way to rectify this situation is to give the other team 5 yards AND the time back on the clock.</P>


First they make up the Tuck rule for Brady, now you want them to make new rules to give him more time, get over it, Tuck was seen on the replay trying to get off the field, it was not intentional, where do you people come from.</P>

Providence
02-06-2012, 10:42 AM
I doubt it was deliberate. The conservative nature of TC would have him more likely to fear giving up 5 yards because of a penalty.

Brady blew it on that play. He should have just taken a knee to stop the clock. Instead he heaved down field, which initially you would think made sense (because he had a free play) but in reality it was a horrible move because of the amount of time on the clock. Mr. Perfect wasn't so perfect on that one.

rtyu456
02-06-2012, 10:56 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?
Because then the Patriots would be able to clearly see that there were too many men on the field, and they would just spike it to preserve the time. With twelve men, they missed it, and ended up running a lot of time off the clock.

GCGiant
02-06-2012, 10:58 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?
Because then the Patriots would be able to clearly see that there were too many men on the field, and they would just spike it to preserve the time. With twelve men, they missed it, and ended up running a lot of time off the clock.

Ahhh...very nice.

Redeyejedi
02-06-2012, 11:00 AM
Cant refs award a Touchdown if they believe a team is purposely trying to break the rules.Pretty sure thats in the rule book.If u commit successive penalties trying to circumvent the rules

Nope.

U have no idea

I think it falls under the "palpably unfair act" rule . Any refs here

Kruunch
02-06-2012, 11:02 AM
Cant refs award a Touchdown if they believe a team is purposely trying to break the rules.Pretty sure thats in the rule book.If u commit successive penalties trying to circumvent the rules

Nope.

U have no idea

I think it falls under the "palpably unfair act" rule . Any refs here

In fact, I do.

Atomic1
02-06-2012, 11:09 AM
Coughlin is a fast learner because Belicheat and the Pats did it twice on 3rd and long because it is only a 5 yrd. penalty.

guardplay320
02-06-2012, 11:12 AM
Watch the play people. It was not deliberate. Eli was signaling for the guy to run off the field at the 3:03 mark of the video (JPP, maybe Tuck?) and he was nearly off the field by the time the ball was snapped. Essentially it was a free play for the Pats, not that that mattered with the amount of time left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHFew0bXF4g

gmen0820
02-06-2012, 11:15 AM
If Hernandez catches that though, the Pats can decline it and get amazing field position though.

gmen0820
02-06-2012, 11:17 AM
I would just put 15 guys on the field to defend a huge play and send like 5 after Brady, that way you don't give up a TD and you milk the clock.

If it was intentional, Tuck would have stayed on the field.

guardplay320
02-06-2012, 11:18 AM
If Hernandez catches that though, the Pats can decline it and get amazing field position though.

Exactly. Unless the 12th guy is actually out there playing defense, having him running off the field doesn't change the play at all. it becomes a free play. The rule should be changed though because it can be abused if the extra guy(s) are actually out there playing defense.

MattMeyerBud
02-06-2012, 11:20 AM
I didn't see Tuck running off will check whe ni get home (can't youtube at work)

What eli is signaling has no bearing on it. I doubt if it was planned that they ran that move by him

gmen0820
02-06-2012, 11:20 AM
If Hernandez catches that though, the Pats can decline it and get amazing field position though.

Exactly.* Unless the 12th guy is actually out there playing defense, having him running off the field doesn't change the play at all. it becomes a free play.* The rule should be changed though because it can be abused if the extra guy(s) are actually out there playing defense.
Yeah, so thats why if you want to pull a fast one, stay on the field and make sure Brady doesn't throw a deep and accurate ball.

jgrangers11
02-06-2012, 11:26 AM
I was saying last night that they should've done it again on the next play. And what's stopping you from putting your entire team on the field in that spot? In that spot the defense is obviously willing to give up the extra 5 yards to take 8 seconds of the clock. Easiest way to rectify this situation is to give the other team 5 yards AND the time back on the clock.</P>


First they make up the Tuck rule for Brady, now you want them to make new rules to give him more time, get over it, Tuck was seen on the replay trying to get off the field, it was not intentional, where do you people come from.</P>

I never said it was intentional. I'm just pointing out that it's a loophole in the rules that CAN, at some point, be taken advantage of. As has already been mentioned in this thread, Buddy Ryan has utilized this in the past. If you're in that situation, there is nothing stopping you from sending your whole team on the field. There isn't a coach in the history of the game that wouldn't trade those 5 yards for time off the clock.

Moss#83
02-06-2012, 11:26 AM
I didn't see Tuck running off will check whe ni get home (can't youtube at work)

What eli is signaling has no bearing on it. I doubt if it was planned that they ran that move by him
When you watch the video you will notice someone is running off the field but it was too late. Giants were playing 11 on 11 on that play with one guy almost making it to the sidelines.

guardplay320
02-06-2012, 11:35 AM
I didn't see Tuck running off will check whe ni get home (can't youtube at work)

What eli is signaling has no bearing on it. I doubt if it was planned that they ran that move by him



???? Watch the video. My point was that Eli was signaling for someone to come off and then you clearly see Tuck running off and a few steps away before the ball was snapped. Tuck was off the field the rest of the play. It clearly wasn't planned., but yes, it could be abused in another case. It just wasn't here. The rule does need to be changed though.

repeatchamps
02-06-2012, 11:41 AM
I didn't see Tuck running off will check whe ni get home (can't youtube at work)

What eli is signaling has no bearing on it. I doubt if it was planned that they ran that move by him



???? Watch the video. My point was that Eli was signaling for someone to come off and then you clearly see Tuck running off and a few steps away before the ball was snapped. Tuck was off the field the rest of the play. It clearly wasn't planned., but yes, it could be abused in another case. It just wasn't here. The rule does need to be changed though.
</P>


This is correct. </P>


However, I do think the NFL will revisit the rule this offseason and Ifully expect a change to it. Time will likely be awarded back to the offense in those scenarios probably if it is in the final minute not likely they'd push it out to 2 minutes. It would be a judgement call based on whether or nota player attempted to make it off the field before the snap or not.</P>

JJC7301
02-06-2012, 11:52 AM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO

They were talking about that on Mike & Mike this morning. They weren't sure if it was a mistake, but they both felt that it was probably strategy.

If it were strategy, then how can you not love that move? However, that is a hole that will probably be sealed by the NFL this off season. We'll probably never see it again. Never made any sense to me why they would not put time back on the clock.

bflo23
02-06-2012, 12:02 PM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO


It definitely was on purpose. Put on an extra defender, take off 8 seconds and give up only 5 yards? Well worth it.

Flawed system that could be fixed by nfl.

guardplay320
02-06-2012, 12:13 PM
I didn't see Tuck running off will check whe ni get home (can't youtube at work)

What eli is signaling has no bearing on it. I doubt if it was planned that they ran that move by him



???? Watch the video. My point was that Eli was signaling for someone to come off and then you clearly see Tuck running off and a few steps away before the ball was snapped. Tuck was off the field the rest of the play. It clearly wasn't planned., but yes, it could be abused in another case. It just wasn't here. The rule does need to be changed though.
</p>


This is correct. </p>


However, I do think the NFL will revisit the rule this offseason and Ifully expect a change to it. Time will likely be awarded back to the offense in those scenarios probably if it is in the final minute not likely they'd push it out to 2 minutes. It would be a judgement call based on whether or nota player attempted to make it off the field before the snap or not.</p>

I think it will be visited and changed as well.

guardplay320
02-06-2012, 12:27 PM
I have a feeling it was a strategic move by Coughlin. Put an extra defender in the secondary make sure nothing big happens, run off 8 seconds, and give up 5 yards, who cares?!

If this was a move and not a mistake, it was ****ing brilliant IMO


It definitely was on purpose. Put on an extra defender, take off 8 seconds and give up only 5 yards? Well worth it.

Flawed system that could be fixed by nfl.


No, it definitely was not on purpose. The extra defender was not on the field by the time the play was happening. Watch the play again before making assumptions. There is no advantage to having a penalty called and giving up a free 5 yards if the extra defender isn't on the field when the actual play is going on. It essentially was a free play.

Flawed system for sure though because it could have been abused.

abjr
02-06-2012, 01:02 PM
I could see the rule being changed so that in the last minute or two if the 12th man does not attempt to get off the field the penalty becomes an unsportsman like conduct penalty instead. I can't see a rule where time is put back on the clock.

pino
02-06-2012, 01:05 PM
Francesa admitted on Mike and Mike that Buddy Ryan did a similar move before, so it does happen.

RagTime Blue
02-06-2012, 01:13 PM
I think that if a QB counts more than 11 defenders on the field "intending to play" (discretion of officials), he can ask the officials for a count, instead of snapping the ball.

If the count is more than 11, move the ball 5 yards past the first down marker with optional clock stoppage for the Offense.

If count is 11 or less, 15 yard delay of game penalty on the Offense.

If this rule were in play, it might prevent future abuses.

jhamburg
02-06-2012, 01:16 PM
I would just put 15 guys on the field to defend a huge play and send like 5 after Brady, that way you don't give up a TD and you milk the clock.

If it was intentional, Tuck would have stayed on the field.

I think there is a rule that gives the refs some leeway in calling personal fouls for blatently unsportsmanlike play, like a guy running off the bench and tackling someone. I think you could argue that putting 5-6 extra players on the field intentionally could be called that way.

guardplay320
02-06-2012, 01:17 PM
Francesa admitted on Mike and Mike that Buddy Ryan did a similar move before, so it does happen.

There is no doubt it happens. This wasn't that case though.

gmen0820
02-06-2012, 01:34 PM
I would just put 15 guys on the field to defend a huge play and send like 5 after Brady, that way you don't give up a TD and you milk the clock.

If it was intentional, Tuck would have stayed on the field.

I think there is a rule that gives the refs some leeway in calling personal fouls for blatently unsportsmanlike play, like a guy running off the bench and tackling someone.* I think you could argue that putting 5-6 extra players on the field intentionally could be called that way.
Yeah I'm sure there is. Always wondered what would happen if like in overtime a kick returner had a clear TD and a player from the sidelines tackled him.

Do you think they give a TD or like 15 yards from the spot?

jhamburg
02-06-2012, 03:01 PM
I would just put 15 guys on the field to defend a huge play and send like 5 after Brady, that way you don't give up a TD and you milk the clock.

If it was intentional, Tuck would have stayed on the field.

I think there is a rule that gives the refs some leeway in calling personal fouls for blatently unsportsmanlike play, like a guy running off the bench and tackling someone.* I think you could argue that putting 5-6 extra players on the field intentionally could be called that way.
Yeah I'm sure there is. Always wondered what would happen if like in overtime a kick returner had a clear TD and a player from the sidelines tackled him.

Do you think they give a TD or like 15 yards from the spot?

This is the rule I was thinking of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpably_unfair_act

They would definitely get a TD in that case. I think I've even seen that the refs can award the win to a team in certain cases. It's basically a vaguely written rule so that the refs can do whatever they have to do to make sure that no one blatently exploits a loophole like this to gain an advantage.

Voldamort
02-06-2012, 03:05 PM
MAYBE what if we picked it off?

pino
02-06-2012, 03:34 PM
Francesa admitted on Mike and Mike that Buddy Ryan did a similar move before, so it does happen.

Oops, just realized I meant Golic. Sorry big guy. Too many Mike's on radio.

Not saying this was the case either. Just saying it happens so you never know.

miked1958
02-10-2012, 05:16 AM
If it was on purpose...why not 20?

because there was 9 seconds left and then had to go 50 yards in 9 seconds with no timeouts... i'll take that scenerio every time


Yes...but my question is not why did they do it, if they did...but why didn't they put about 10 extra guys out there. It is still only a five yard penalty.Because they would never even get the play off. It would be blown dead. Refs wouldn't allow that. Has to be suttle so refs think its a mistake and allow play to continue, then throw the flag

miked1958
02-10-2012, 05:18 AM
That's a rule that needs to change.* Just heard Golic say Buddy Ryan used to do it all the time, and said he thinks it even happened once with 15 guys on the field.


I'd be surprised if they don't implement a reverse run off rule for defensive penalties with under 2 minutes left (put time back on the clock).This.

miked1958
02-10-2012, 05:19 AM
i coulda sworn there was a rule regarding penalties in the final 2 minutes of the game?* Like adding 10 seconds to the clock or something.</P>


btw, check your PM.</P>I think that is only on the offense. Where the run ten seconds off for a penalty

buffyblue
02-10-2012, 05:35 AM
i coulda sworn there was a rule regarding penalties in the final 2 minutes of the game?* Like adding 10 seconds to the clock or something.</P>


btw, check your PM.</P>I think that is only on the offense. Where the run ten seconds off for a penalty

You may be thinking of the rule that a game can not end on a defensive penalty.

That was not on purpose. Eli Manning was motioning for soemone to get off field.

I would think that if the coach tried to throw fifteen defenders out there then the refs would tack an unspotsmanlike penalty or something that on to it.

Folks say he should have just kneeled and took the five yards but I think you have to gamble there and take the free play.

We benefited twice from the 12 man penalty. Once against us that took time off the clock and then earlier against the Pats that saved us the fumble by Victor Cruz.

I would think that NFL is going to change this rule that time does not come off the clock during the final two minutes of the game. I think they would be right to do that.