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View Full Version : Is Coughlin better Giants Coach than Parcells?



CDN_G-FAN
02-07-2012, 01:03 PM
Alot of similarities.</P>


Playoff record, 8-3 vs. 7-3</P>


i'm wondering if the opponents tip the scales on this one.</P>


Should be a good discussion now.</P>

gumby742
02-07-2012, 01:06 PM
Maybe from a coaching standpoint, but keep in mind the Parcells accomplishments goes beyond coaching. He turned a horrible Pats team into contenders. He turned the Cowboys team around. He turned the Dolphins team around.</P>


So imo, Parcells has done a lot more.</P>

CDN_G-FAN
02-07-2012, 01:08 PM
Maybe from a coaching standpoint, but keep in mind the Parcells accomplishments goes beyond coaching. He turned a horrible Pats team into contenders. He turned the Cowboys team around. He turned the Dolphins team around.</P>


So imo, Parcells has done a lot more.</P>


</P>


Career wise there's no comparison.</P>


What about from a Giants perspective.</P>


Who was the better Giants coach?</P>

GmenFan1980
02-07-2012, 01:10 PM
there both 8-3 in the playoffs btw :P

ikebibby91
02-07-2012, 01:10 PM
Maybe Coughlin because during the Parcells era you could actually play defense.

Jotun_Fan
02-07-2012, 01:11 PM
Gotta go with Tuna. The division and the conference was much tougher than it is now. We went into SF this year and won, but when Parcells did that it was with his backup QB against the 2time defending SB champs (maybe one of the best teams of alltime the year before.)

Kruunch
02-07-2012, 01:11 PM
Parcells is still more accomplished:

3 SB Appearances with 2 different teams.
2 SB wins
1 extra Championship appearance (w/ Jets)
Rebult 4 clubs (Giants, Pats, Jets, Cowboys), 3 of which were one or two win teams when he took them over.
Playoff appearances with 4 different teams.
Championship appearances with 3 different teams.

The fact that Parcells didn't get into the HoF this year was a travesty (especially with Marv Levy in there) and a testament to how many feathers he's ruffled.

Having said that, Tom is right up there.

2 SB wins
2 extra Championship games
Built an expansion team from the ground up
Championship appearances with 2 different teams.

CDN_G-FAN
02-07-2012, 01:12 PM
Gotta go with Tuna. The division and the conference was much tougher than it is now. We went into SF this year and won, but when Parcells did that it was with his backup QB against the 2time defending SB champs (maybe one of the best teams of alltime the year before.)</P>


doesn't that line up pretty equally with beating a 18-0 Pats team in the SB?</P>

Kruunch
02-07-2012, 01:12 PM
Maybe from a coaching standpoint, but keep in mind the Parcells accomplishments goes beyond coaching.* He turned a horrible Pats team into contenders.* He turned the Cowboys team around.* He turned the Dolphins team around.</P>


So imo, Parcells has done a lot more.</P>


</P>


Career wise there's no comparison.</P>


What about from a Giants perspective.</P>


Who was the better Giants coach?</P>

Having lived through both, Tuna's teams were definitely more dominant overall.

This Giants team has a more prolific offense however.

It'd be close. I think I still give it to Tuna because he did one SB with a backup QB.

But very close at this point.

DragonSoul
02-07-2012, 01:13 PM
He could be in a bit it time. Another year or two maybe.

ghwriter1976
02-07-2012, 01:14 PM
Just judging by their season-by-season record, they're exactly tied numbers-wise. Both of them started with a losing record and then made the playoffs three straight times and won the Super Bowl in their fourth years. They then each had only one playoff trip the next three years and then won it all again in their eighth years.

Both Parcells and Coughlin have, in their 8 years, brought us five playoffs appearances, three division titles and two Lombardi trophies.

And weirdly enough, both of their second SB wins were with teams with one less regular season win than their first time.

DragonSoul
02-07-2012, 01:15 PM
Maybe from a coaching standpoint, but keep in mind the Parcells accomplishments goes beyond coaching.* He turned a horrible Pats team into contenders.* He turned the Cowboys team around.* He turned the Dolphins team around.</P>


So imo, Parcells has done a lot more.</P>That's true that's why he is slightly ahead ATM. But don't forget TC Took a expansion jags team to afccg twice and the 1st time in only his 2nd year. If he gets or wins another sb then no question. Don't forget about salary cap as well

gumby742
02-07-2012, 01:20 PM
Maybe from a coaching standpoint, but keep in mind the Parcells accomplishments goes beyond coaching. He turned a horrible Pats team into contenders. He turned the Cowboys team around. He turned the Dolphins team around.</P>


So imo, Parcells has done a lot more.</P>


</P>


Career wise there's no comparison.</P>


What about from a Giants perspective.</P>


Who was the better Giants coach?</P>


</P>


Probably Parcells, just based on the fact that we were a dominant team under him. Under Coughlin we had late season swoons and for the most part unimpressive/under achieving teams. We won 2 SB, but we weren't as convincing. Although to be fair, Parcells didn't have to deal with the salary cap either.</P>


</P>

Jotun_Fan
02-07-2012, 01:24 PM
Gotta go with Tuna. The division and the conference was much tougher than it is now. We went into SF this year and won, but when Parcells did that it was with his backup QB against the 2time defending SB champs (maybe one of the best teams of alltime the year before.)</P>


doesn't that line up pretty equally with beating a 18-0 Pats team in the SB?</P>

It's close, but I still give the edge to Tuna since he had a backup QB and it was in San Francisco and not a neutral site. But the NFC and the East in particular was a dogfight every year Tuna was a coach. I feel like the playoff losses Tuna had were to superior teams, where I'm not sure I can say that about Coughlin teams. Being beat 23-0 at home by Carolina? Compare that to when the Giants in 85 lost to the Bears and maybe it could have been close if Landeta doesn't whiff on a punt. In 89 they're beat in overtime when mark collins with a broken foot is beat deep. Two of Tuna's playoff losses were to arguably some of the best super bowl winning teams.

bansaw
02-07-2012, 01:31 PM
I'll take coach Coughlin

Kingb50
02-07-2012, 01:36 PM
Maybe from a coaching standpoint, but keep in mind the Parcells accomplishments goes beyond coaching. He turned a horrible Pats team into contenders. He turned the Cowboys team around. He turned the Dolphins team around.</P>


So imo, Parcells has done a lot more.</P>


</P>


And the Jets</P>

GOBIGBLUE52
02-07-2012, 01:51 PM
Coughlin has done it in an era where such parity exists that it's hard to do it twice in such a short span. Coughlin inherited a Giants team that was arguably the worst in its franchise's history.

Parcells had more dominant teams and a more dominant defense. He came to NY as head coach after the Giants recently had a playoff appearance under Perkins.

Their records and resumes as Giants coaches are similar. Both have had their highs and lows. Coughlin had success with an expansion team. Parcells had more success with the Patriots and Jets. The Cowboys and especially the Dolphins, not so much.

My verdict? They're totally equal as Giant coaches. Hall of Fame coaches for entirely different reasons. I lean more towards Coughlin because I wasn't old enough to see the Parcells teams (except some recorded games).

Providence
02-07-2012, 01:54 PM
Maybe from a coaching standpoint, but keep in mind the Parcells accomplishments goes beyond coaching.* He turned a horrible Pats team into contenders.* He turned the Cowboys team around.* He turned the Dolphins team around.</P>


So imo, Parcells has done a lot more.</P>That's true that's why he is slightly ahead ATM. But don't forget TC Took a expansion jags team to afccg twice and the 1st time in only his 2nd year. If he gets or wins another sb then no question. Don't forget about salary cap as well

I am glad you brought up the Jags, I think that is a very important point. Expansion teams are always garbage and TC took one to the Championship game in their second year. Pretty nuts if you ask me.

bansaw
02-07-2012, 01:59 PM
both have enjoyed outstanding veteran leaders

Coughlin as just said did it now when guys dont care about the name on the helmet as much
he did it by fining guys coming in 5 minutes early and he still got near every one of them to buy in
lots of players would love to be a part of this...that will save us money.

and I'll bet some time in the future certain guys will get a letter from TC with the money returned, maybe all of them

G-Man67
02-07-2012, 02:04 PM
Alot of similarities.</P>


Playoff record, 8-3 vs. 7-3</P>


i'm wondering if the opponents tip the scales on this one.</P>


Should be a good discussion now.</P>

i would still give the slight edge to Parcells and my reasoning is that the Giants were so awful in the 70s and he was a big part of the turnaround in the 80s ... and not only did we win 2 Super Bowls, but we were a feared franchise, of course i think we are currently feared in New England :)



we weren't very good in the 90s either, but not nearly as bad as the 70s and Fassel and co. kinda pulled us out of the 90s mess with a 41-0 NFC Championship win over the Vikings ... also our 2002-03 team was probably the best of that era, but we lost that heartbreaker in SF, which we have now finally avenged



now if Coughlin can win a 3rd NFC Title even w/o another Super Bowl win, well then you have to give the nod to Coughlin b/c of the overall results

bansaw
02-07-2012, 02:06 PM
I sure Coach Coughlin uses some of Parcells best tricks he'd have picked up on working for him

gmen46
02-07-2012, 02:12 PM
Gotta go with Tuna. The division and the conference was much tougher than it is now. We went into SF this year and won, but when Parcells did that it was with his backup QB against the 2time defending SB champs (maybe one of the best teams of alltime the year before.)</P>


doesn't that line up pretty equally with beating a 18-0 Pats team in the SB?</P>

It's close, but I still give the edge to Tuna since he had a backup QB and it was in San Francisco and not a neutral site. But the NFC and the East in particular was a dogfight every year Tuna was a coach. I feel like the playoff losses Tuna had were to superior teams, where I'm not sure I can say that about Coughlin teams. Being beat 23-0 at home by Carolina? Compare that to when the Giants in 85 lost to the Bears and maybe it could have been close if Landeta doesn't whiff on a punt. In 89 they're beat in overtime when mark collins with a broken foot is beat deep. Two of Tuna's playoff losses were to arguably some of the best super bowl winning teams.

You make some good points in favor of Parcells.

On the other hand----

This year's Giants team is the first in NFL history to win the SB after a season with 7 losses.

This year's team is the first in NFL history to win the SB after a season that included 4 consecutive losses.

The 2007 team was the first in history to win a SB vs a team with a perfect 18-0 record.

The ability of Coughlin as HC to lead his team in putting on the skids and turning around a team on a 4 game losing slide must not be underestimated. NO coach has been able to do that.

The fact that Coughlin, after 16 years as HC of 2 teams, is tied with Tom Landry--a coach with TWENTY NINE YEARS as HC--for the most post season wins on the road is also an accomplishment that should not be underestimated. I think we Giants fans take that accomplishment for granted a little bit.

Bottom line, to me, is that at the very least Coughlin should be held at the SAME level as Parcells in terms of head coach of the Giants.

bansaw
02-07-2012, 02:17 PM
the 90 team never quit believing
this 2012 team never quit believing

their Giants legacy is exact same. 1st win was veteran leaders instrumental...second was all faith and trust

its a tie

Coach Carter
02-07-2012, 02:21 PM
Alot of similarities.</P>


Playoff record, 8-3 vs. 7-3</P>


i'm wondering if the opponents tip the scales on this one.</P>


Should be a good discussion now.</P>

I give more props to the coach who can assemble a team in the era of free-agency, social media and 24hrs sports channels.

The pressure is overwhelming.

JJC7301
02-07-2012, 02:24 PM
Alot of similarities.</P>


Playoff record, 8-3 vs. 7-3</P>


i'm wondering if the opponents tip the scales on this one.</P>


Should be a good discussion now.</P>


</P>


It's a great and legit question. I really respect TC, but I have to say Parcells...and it's not even close. How often did a Parcells team under-perform? We've seen quite a few games (and seasons) where TC's Giants just seemed to flop. You didn't see that nearly as much with the Parcells' Giants.</P>


This is NOT criticism of TC...just pointing out what I think is a big difference between the two. And the '86 Parcells Giants were the only Giants SB team to actually by the favorite. Now THAT was a dominate team.</P>

JJC7301
02-07-2012, 02:27 PM
I sure Coach Coughlin uses some of Parcells best tricks he'd have picked up on working for him

</P>


Parcells was never afraid to break out a flea flicker or fake punt in the playoffs or SB if he felt that were a good chance of succeeding. TC's more conservative -- I don't ever remember something like that from TC in the regular season, let alone the playoffs.</P>

JJC7301
02-07-2012, 02:27 PM
I sure Coach Coughlin uses some of Parcells best tricks he'd have picked up on working for him

</P>


Parcells was never afraid to break out a flea flicker or fake punt in the playoffs or SB if he felt that were a good chance of succeeding. TC's more conservative -- I don't ever remember something like that from TC in the regular season, let alone the playoffs.</P>

stormblue
02-07-2012, 02:29 PM
even though i am a known TC hater i still think
i can offer an honest response.
i really do think that Parcells was a better football coach.
and i think Coughlin is probably a better person.
stat for stat they're pretty much even accomplishment wise.

i guess i'd take Parcells over any coach though ; just because he owns the room.
he is the Tuna and nobody else is.
and he was the coach that brought us back
from a 30 year championship drought and got us our first Lombardy. there's a memory and a
bond of a long ago and far away dreamscape of raw power football with Simms
and LT and company that just can't compare to our recent success.

i don't know how to explain it , all things being
equal , all i can say is that Tom just isn't
Bill Parcells.

giantsforce
02-07-2012, 02:32 PM
Alot of similarities.</p>


Playoff record, 8-3 vs. 7-3</p>


i'm wondering if the opponents tip the scales on this one.</p>


Should be a good discussion now.</p>That will be a great discussion. I was more of a Parcells fan and I really did not care much for Coughlin because of the inconsistency. However, if we look at the facts objectively, as it stands now, they are just about equal except that Parcells was a master at rebuilding losing teams and developing great assistants that became great HC's. The second difference is that Parcells, personality wise, was a jerk, while Coughlin is ALL CLASS. I think the reason why Parcells did not get voted in to the HOF was his personality rather than his accomplishments. The fact remains that we should be thankful we had them both. Let's not forget the misery from the Ray Handley to Fassel the "fossil" years.

Markroman
02-07-2012, 02:39 PM
Parcells was better.

Parcells had a consistent coaching staff that he built. the NFC of the 80s was alot tougher than the AFC and the competition was fiercer.

Coughlin has to be accountable a little for Hufnagel, Sheridan and some of the other poor hires.

gmen46
02-07-2012, 03:37 PM
Parcells was better.

Parcells had a consistent coaching staff that he built. the NFC of the 80s was alot tougher than the AFC and the competition was fiercer.

Coughlin has to be accountable a little for Hufnagel, Sheridan and some of the other poor hires.

It's fine that you favor Parcells over Coughlin.

But I find your rationale here puzzling.

If, as you claim, the NFC of the 80s was a lot tougher than the AFC, the shouldn't the Giants' last 2 SB victories over a team from the "superior" AFC be more impressive than the SBs of the 80s?

And given that Parcells teams won 2 SBs--as did Coughlin's--and given that Parcells' win-loss as a Giant is virtually identical to Coughlin's and that Parcells' team made the playoffs EXACTLY the same number of time (5), and that Parcells' post season win-loss (8-3) is EXACTLY the same as that of Coughlin, what relevance is there to Coughlin's "poor hires" as your argument favoring Parcells over Coughlin?

You might as well say you think Parcells was a better HC because you like him better. That, at least, is a human feeling about the 2, and therefore at least understandable, if not agreeable.

But to use bad reasoning to justify a feeling you have is just an exercise in futility--and tends to undermine one's opinion.

Bing Crosby
02-07-2012, 03:39 PM
Right now I'd say they are even. People are going to argue for one or the other based on their heart, and what style of football they like better. Since Coughlin is staying he has a chance to surpass Parcells though.

Mercury
02-07-2012, 03:40 PM
<font color="#FF0000">Coughlin </font><font color="#FF0000">as an assistant </font><font color="#FF0000">made Parcells great.</font>

Tony Bruno
02-07-2012, 03:40 PM
The game is way different... I think they are pretty close as far a character goes though...

CDN_G-FAN
02-07-2012, 03:41 PM
Parcells was better. Parcells had a consistent coaching staff that he built. the NFC of the 80s was alot tougher than the AFC and the competition was fiercer. Coughlin has to be accountable a little for Hufnagel, Sheridan and some of the other poor hires.</P>


sheridan wasn't his first choice.</P>


he wanted capers and was told the cupboard was bare in terms of paying him enough to bring him over.</P>

IBelieveEli
02-07-2012, 03:43 PM
Coughlin. Why? He didn't need Belichick. Tuna won nothing without BB. It was BB who laid the blueprint for beating the Bills. I love Parcells for what he did for us. It just pisses me off that he went to coach the Jets and then the Cowboys like he was trying to shove it up our a****. Also waiting until the 11th hour to retire and leave us with Handley. I am just happy that we have a new SB era and another coach to be proud of.

Jotun_Fan
02-07-2012, 03:50 PM
Gotta go with Tuna. The division and the conference was much tougher than it is now. We went into SF this year and won, but when Parcells did that it was with his backup QB against the 2time defending SB champs (maybe one of the best teams of alltime the year before.)</P>


doesn't that line up pretty equally with beating a 18-0 Pats team in the SB?</P>

It's close, but I still give the edge to Tuna since he had a backup QB and it was in San Francisco and not a neutral site. But the NFC and the East in particular was a dogfight every year Tuna was a coach. I feel like the playoff losses Tuna had were to superior teams, where I'm not sure I can say that about Coughlin teams. Being beat 23-0 at home by Carolina? Compare that to when the Giants in 85 lost to the Bears and maybe it could have been close if Landeta doesn't whiff on a punt. In 89 they're beat in overtime when mark collins with a broken foot is beat deep. Two of Tuna's playoff losses were to arguably some of the best super bowl winning teams.

You make some good points in favor of Parcells.

On the other hand----

This year's Giants team is the first in NFL history to win the SB after a season with 7 losses.

This year's team is the first in NFL history to win the SB after a season that included 4 consecutive losses.

The 2007 team was the first in history to win a SB vs a team with a perfect 18-0 record.

The ability of Coughlin as HC to lead his team in putting on the skids and turning around a team on a 4 game losing slide must not be underestimated. NO coach has been able to do that.

The fact that Coughlin, after 16 years as HC of 2 teams, is tied with Tom Landry--a coach with TWENTY NINE YEARS as HC--for the most post season wins on the road is also an accomplishment that should not be underestimated. I think we Giants fans take that accomplishment for granted a little bit.

Bottom line, to me, is that at the very least Coughlin should be held at the SAME level as Parcells in terms of head coach of the Giants.

I don't see how losing more games in the regular season is a sign of a good coach. Whether its Coughlins fault or not, the Giants this year would not come to play against some teams that they should have beat. People were calling for Coughlins head earlier this year because of all the previous 2nd half of the season collapses. And the times they came out in the postseason and just got embaressed can't go unnoticed. Parcells had a loss in OT and two losses to all-time great teams, his teams were more consistent in an era where they were competing with some great competition, but they still took care of business against the teams they should beat.

Voldamort
02-07-2012, 03:54 PM
look what TC did with the Jag's in two years,yes alot of similarities!!! he would never leave like Parcells did that's why he didn't make the hall.He should have stayed!

nycisgreat
02-07-2012, 03:55 PM
Alot of similarities.</P>


Playoff record, 8-3 vs. 7-3</P>


i'm wondering if the opponents tip the scales on this one.</P>


Should be a good discussion now.</P>

Both have their places in history. They are both HOF bound.

Hostetler
02-07-2012, 04:16 PM
I would have to say the tuna - back in the 80's the NFC East was a powerhouse, remember, the cowboys were coming off of their SB runs, The Redskins and thiesmann were going to win thier first and I remember the horrible 13-13 tie with the cardinals on monday night football.</P>


Factor in that the Bears had that defense, and the 49'ers had a young QB named Montana</P>


and last - Parcells had BB</P>


</P>


I was one of the folks calling for TC's head after the redskin loss, imho there just has been too many talented Giants teams that underachieved under TC, but I tip my hat to TC - he got the team to gel at the right time and won his second.</P>

Gianthunter
02-07-2012, 04:20 PM
Coughlin has a leg up in the class department.</P>

Markroman
02-07-2012, 04:30 PM
You forget. Parcells helped bring the Giants back to respectability and set the tone for the future.

The competition in the NFC was ferocious in the 80s. Parcells was hurt by a strike year as well and Simms injuries.

Of course, TC did not have LT.

JMFP2
02-07-2012, 04:31 PM
I have Parcells, Coughlin, and Belichick in the same category.

BillTheGreek
02-07-2012, 04:34 PM
I will have to answer that question in 2013

BParcells777
02-07-2012, 04:39 PM
No

If Parcells coached this team we would have had home field throughout, and no cliff hanging SB

gmen46
02-07-2012, 04:43 PM
Gotta go with Tuna. The division and the conference was much tougher than it is now. We went into SF this year and won, but when Parcells did that it was with his backup QB against the 2time defending SB champs (maybe one of the best teams of alltime the year before.)</P>


doesn't that line up pretty equally with beating a 18-0 Pats team in the SB?</P>

It's close, but I still give the edge to Tuna since he had a backup QB and it was in San Francisco and not a neutral site. But the NFC and the East in particular was a dogfight every year Tuna was a coach. I feel like the playoff losses Tuna had were to superior teams, where I'm not sure I can say that about Coughlin teams. Being beat 23-0 at home by Carolina? Compare that to when the Giants in 85 lost to the Bears and maybe it could have been close if Landeta doesn't whiff on a punt. In 89 they're beat in overtime when mark collins with a broken foot is beat deep. Two of Tuna's playoff losses were to arguably some of the best super bowl winning teams.

You make some good points in favor of Parcells.

On the other hand----

This year's Giants team is the first in NFL history to win the SB after a season with 7 losses.

This year's team is the first in NFL history to win the SB after a season that included 4 consecutive losses.

The 2007 team was the first in history to win a SB vs a team with a perfect 18-0 record.

The ability of Coughlin as HC to lead his team in putting on the skids and turning around a team on a 4 game losing slide must not be underestimated. NO coach has been able to do that.

The fact that Coughlin, after 16 years as HC of 2 teams, is tied with Tom Landry--a coach with TWENTY NINE YEARS as HC--for the most post season wins on the road is also an accomplishment that should not be underestimated. I think we Giants fans take that accomplishment for granted a little bit.

Bottom line, to me, is that at the very least Coughlin should be held at the SAME level as Parcells in terms of head coach of the Giants.

I don't see how losing more games in the regular season is a sign of a good coach. Whether its Coughlins fault or not, the Giants this year would not come to play against some teams that they should have beat. People were calling for Coughlins head earlier this year because of all the previous 2nd half of the season collapses. And the times they came out in the postseason and just got embaressed can't go unnoticed. Parcells had a loss in OT and two losses to all-time great teams, his teams were more consistent in an era where they were competing with some great competition, but they still took care of business against the teams they should beat.

Fine.

I just find it curious that you obviously value Parcells more for his playoff LOSSES to "all-time great teams" than you do Coughlin for his WINS over an 18-0 team in the Super Bowl and his WIN over 15-1 Packers in the Divisional Round (which was an NFL first in the Playoffs), not to mention his SECOND Super Bowl WIN over a 3-time Super Bowl Champion.

And you seem to overlook the fact that in this Free Agent era it is actually much much more difficult for a good team to win a Super Bowl multiple times than it was back in the 70s and 80s, when a team could more likely hold onto their star players (except for natural attrition, like retirement)--which is what makes Belichick's run with the Patriots all the more remarkable, btw, and which is why I think Coughlin should be ranked AT LEAST with Parcells, in terms of Giants coaches.

By your comments above, you clearly prefer to give more weight to Coughlin's failures than to his victories in high profile, high pressure championship games.

I don't.

You also clearly don't believe in the philosophy of "it's not how you START but how you FINISH" that is important in sports.

I do.

And I'm guessing if you don't yet appreciate the significance of that philosophy, after witnessing the last 2 Giants Super Bowl runs, you never will. Oh well.

buffyblue
02-07-2012, 04:44 PM
Tom Coughlin is a better coach than Bill Parcells hands down.

Folks continually bring up what Bill Parcells did with NY Jets, NE Patriots and Dallas Cowboys and he also helped those organizations. Well, I take into account how he bailed out on those organizations when things didnít go his way. I sure remember him playing his spoiled brat games at the end of his tenure here with NY Giants.

We can look at how Tom Coughlin was involved in building the Jacksonville Jaguars from the ground up and taking them to two AFC Champioship games, the first one being after their second season of existence.

Tom Coughlin has won two SuperBowls with NY Giants with two different defensive coordinators. Bill Parcels won two SuperBowls with NY Giants with Bill Bellichek as his defensive coordinator both times. Bill Parcells took New England Patriots to SuperBowl XXXI with Bill Bellichek as his defensive coordinator and lost. However that loss can be strongly attributed to special teams play more than Bill Bellicheks defense. If Bill Bellichek were the head coach I can guarantee he would have made sure that his special teams guy prepped the guys not to kick to Desmond Howard with the postseason he was having.

Tom Coughlinís two SuperBowl wins were against New England Patriots coached by Bill Bellichek. Bill Parcells wins were against Buffalo Bills and Denver Broncos coached by Marv Levy (Buffalo Bills) and Dan Reeves (Denver Broncos). Tom Coughlins two SuperBowl wins came against better teams with better a head coach in charge of them than the teams tuna beat. If anyone really wants to question Bill Bellicheks brilliance just look at the defensive game plan he put out against us in SuperBowl XLVI, it was brilliiant. Eli Manning was on fire and made perfect throws when he needed to with the game on the line.

I would have to go with Tom Coughlin as the better coach. Also judging by his track record I would also think Tom Coughlin is a man of much stronger character too.

gmen46
02-07-2012, 04:45 PM
No

If Parcells coached this team we would have had home field throughout, and no cliff hanging SB


And where would the fun be in that?

No appreciation for the dramatic, huh?

domfin
02-07-2012, 04:47 PM
TC needs to a better job during the regular season. We need more home playoff games.

gmen46
02-07-2012, 04:51 PM
TC needs to a better job during the regular season. We need more home playoff games.

Right.

Because we do SO much better in home playoff games (1-2) than we do in road playoff games (7-1) under Coughlin and Eli.

BParcells777
02-07-2012, 04:53 PM
No

If Parcells coached this team we would have had home field throughout, and no cliff hanging SB


And where would the fun be in that?

No appreciation for the dramatic, huh?

You have a point there

2 cliffhangers.......I thought Randy Moss was going to ruin the last one on the last play.....Tom Terrific under-threw him

As for Bill he will never come back........I heard a rumor from the "Giants" Life Insurance sales guy that Bill was politely asked to resign......I know why (well his story), but would never write it here

buffyblue
02-07-2012, 05:06 PM
No

If Parcells coached this team we would have had home field throughout, and no cliff hanging SB


And where would the fun be in that?

No appreciation for the dramatic, huh?

I absolutely disagree. Lets say Bill Parcells had this team for the same time that Tom Coughlin did I can guarantee you Eli Manning would not have developed into the QB he is today.

Donít fool yourselves folks. Eli Manning is great but the grooming and coaching of Tom Coughlin does have something to do with that.

I can imagine if Bill Walsh were able to make that trade to move up in the draft to get Phil Simms where Phil would be in the record books. More than likely we would be talking about Phil Simms as being the guy to win three or four SuperBowls and not Joe Montana. I have alwasy felt that Bill Parcells impeded Phil Simms improvement as a QB.

Lots of folks bring up about beating Buffalo Bills in SuperBowl XXV with a backup QB but never really take into account that Jeff Hostetler was a physical beast. He was no slouch. His career was cut short because of injuries, one of them being breaking some vertabrae in his back.

bansaw
02-07-2012, 05:07 PM
where would Tiki be without Coughlin

buffyblue
02-07-2012, 05:08 PM
We see where one of Bill Parcells boys, Dave Megget is now donít we?

IBelieveEli
02-07-2012, 05:14 PM
Right on. With Parcells it became all about him. He became an egomaniac. He seemed to care too much about his legacy.
He was a great coachĖno doubt. But I'll take TC any day.

Jotun_Fan
02-07-2012, 05:16 PM
Fine.

I just find it curious that you obviously value Parcells more for his playoff LOSSES to "all-time great teams" than you do Coughlin for his WINS over an 18-0 team in the Super Bowl and his WIN over 15-1 Packers in the Divisional Round (which was an NFL first in the Playoffs), not to mention his SECOND Super Bowl WIN over a 3-time Super Bowl Champion.

And you seem to overlook the fact that in this Free Agent era it is actually much much more difficult for a good team to win a Super Bowl multiple times than it was back in the 70s and 80s, when a team could more likely hold onto their star players (except for natural attrition, like retirement)--which is what makes Belichick's run with the Patriots all the more remarkable, btw, and which is why I think Coughlin should be ranked AT LEAST with Parcells, in terms of Giants coaches.

By your comments above, you clearly prefer to give more weight to Coughlin's failures than to his victories in high profile, high pressure championship games.

I don't.

You also clearly don't believe in the philosophy of "it's not how you START but how you FINISH" that is important in sports.

I do.

And I'm guessing if you don't yet appreciate the significance of that philosophy, after witnessing the last 2 Giants Super Bowl runs, you never will. Oh well.

The fact that I think Parcells was a better coach for the Giants than Coughlin is now does not mean that I don't appreciate everything that Coughlin has done for this team. I already addressed the 18-0 thing, I think the accomplishment of going into San Francisco with your backup QB and beating the 2x defending super bowl champions is of equal quality.

While it's great that Coughlin is winning in an era of free agency, the other coaches he competes with have to deal with that too. In Parcells days, he had to deal with the loaded 49ers teams of the 80's that didn't have to deal with free agency either.

The matter still stands that when Parcells coached, the NFC East was hands down the best division in football, and the NFC was clearly the stronger conference. I can't say the same about Coughlin's years, and it's only been the last 2 years or so that I'd say the NFC has been a stronger conference than the AFC.

You mention how its important how you FINISH, but how many late season collapses did Coughlin have as opposed to Parcells? Tuna's teams were more disciplined and more consistent.

BParcells777
02-07-2012, 05:17 PM
No

If Parcells coached this team we would have had home field throughout, and no cliff hanging SB


And where would the fun be in that?

No appreciation for the dramatic, huh?

I absolutely disagree. Lets say Bill Parcells had this team for the same time that Tom Coughlin did I can guarantee you Eli Manning would not have developed into the QB he is today.

Donít fool yourselves folks. Eli Manning is great but the grooming and coaching of Tom Coughlin does have something to do with that.

I can imagine if Bill Walsh were able to make that trade to move up in the draft to get Phil Simms where Phil would be in the record books. More than likely we would be talking about Phil Simms as being the guy to win three or four SuperBowls and not Joe Montana. I have alwasy felt that Bill Parcells impeded Phil Simms improvement as a QB.

Lots of folks bring up about beating Buffalo Bills in SuperBowl XXV with a backup QB but never really take into account that Jeff Hostetler was a physical beast. He was no slouch. His career was cut short because of injuries, one of them being breaking some vertabrae in his back.

Dont get carried away
Phil had a few nice years but did not have Eli's touch

Phil could not "feather" the ball in.......he only threw ropes and even on screens he often threw the ball too hard

Joe Montana was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than any of these present day QBs

Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, and Fran Tarkenton would have eaten the record books alive with the present day pansy pants rules, and receivers like ours........Brees reminds me a lot of Montana and Tarkenton......yes I'm old enough to have seen all of Fran's career

GameTime
02-07-2012, 05:50 PM
Alot of similarities.</P>


Playoff record, 8-3 vs. 7-3</P>


i'm wondering if the opponents tip the scales on this one.</P>


Should be a good discussion now.</P>


</P>


he doesnt have to be. Or if he is then that doesnt matter either. Two different guys. Similar philosophies but different ways of incorporating them. I like them both. BUt I like TC better because I think TC, believe it or not is actually a nicer warmer guy and more approachable as well. </P>


</P>

buffyblue
02-07-2012, 06:14 PM
No

If Parcells coached this team we would have had home field throughout, and no cliff hanging SB


And where would the fun be in that?

No appreciation for the dramatic, huh?

I absolutely disagree. Lets say Bill Parcells had this team for the same time that Tom Coughlin did I can guarantee you Eli Manning would not have developed into the QB he is today.

Donít fool yourselves folks. Eli Manning is great but the grooming and coaching of Tom Coughlin does have something to do with that.

I can imagine if Bill Walsh were able to make that trade to move up in the draft to get Phil Simms where Phil would be in the record books. More than likely we would be talking about Phil Simms as being the guy to win three or four SuperBowls and not Joe Montana. I have alwasy felt that Bill Parcells impeded Phil Simms improvement as a QB.

Lots of folks bring up about beating Buffalo Bills in SuperBowl XXV with a backup QB but never really take into account that Jeff Hostetler was a physical beast. He was no slouch. His career was cut short because of injuries, one of them being breaking some vertabrae in his back.

Dont get carried away
Phil had a few nice years but did not have Eli's touch

Phil could not "feather" the ball in.......he only threw ropes and even on screens he often threw the ball too hard

Joe Montana was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than any of these present day QBs

Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, and Fran Tarkenton would have eaten the record books alive with the present day pansy pants rules, and receivers like ours........Brees reminds me a lot of Montana and Tarkenton......yes I'm old enough to have seen all of Fran's career


No Phil Simms didnít have Eli Mannings touch but he also never achieved his full potential with NY Giants. Phil Simms still threw for more yards than Terry Bradshaw did while playing on a team that didnít throw much. Although I agree that Eli Manning is better than Phil Simms ever could have been, Bill Parcells did not get the full potential out of him. Phil would have been a better QB somewhere else.

I am also going to have to disagree with you on the Joe Montana being way better than anybody today. He was great. One of the greatest ever but he had a great system around him. However waaaaaay better? No way. I don;t think he is way better than Tom Brady. I donít think he is way better than Peyton Manning. I donít think he is way better than Drew Brees. I donít think he is way better than Aaron Rodgers. I donít think he is way better than Eli Manning either. Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, John Taylor over in San Fransisco. Heck he even had the fastest guy in the NFL Renaldo ďthe experimentĒ Neaimiah for a little. Now the guy couldnít catch anything but he was so so fast that he stretched the defense. He also had a great tight end in Brent Jones and a phenomenal blocking FB in Tom Rathman. Joe Montana had some serious offensive weapons out there.

I think too much is made of how soft the rules have become. I donít think they have become too soft. Leading with a helmet to a helmet shot has always been considered a cheap shot no matter what the rules were. I think it is great to enforce that rule now. Since we wanna talk about recievers, a rule that benefited Joe Montana, Fran Tarkenton and a lot of those other QBs were that if the reciever were in the air making the catch and you pushed him out of bounds before he came down it was still marked a catch. Joe Montana, Steve Young, Terry Bradshaw and Dan Marino were brilliant at exploiting that. They wouldnít be able to get away with it today. If the reciever goes up for the catch near the sidelines and you push him out during the process of him catching the ball then it is not a catch. I do think that the ďslide ruleĒ for QBs is ridiculous. You wanna run the ball you should be treated as a running back.

Folks from the 40s were saying that football in the 60s had become too soft. Folks from the 70s said that football had become too soft in the 80s and so on. Rules are gonna change as the athletes change.

DragonSoul
02-07-2012, 06:49 PM
where would Tiki be without Coughlin
same place he is now. Watching from the outside, Could have been two rings. Too bad so sad.

gmen46
02-07-2012, 07:50 PM
Fine.

I just find it curious that you obviously value Parcells more for his playoff LOSSES to "all-time great teams" than you do Coughlin for his WINS over an 18-0 team in the Super Bowl and his WIN over 15-1 Packers in the Divisional Round (which was an NFL first in the Playoffs), not to mention his SECOND Super Bowl WIN over a 3-time Super Bowl Champion.

And you seem to overlook the fact that in this Free Agent era it is actually much much more difficult for a good team to win a Super Bowl multiple times than it was back in the 70s and 80s, when a team could more likely hold onto their star players (except for natural attrition, like retirement)--which is what makes Belichick's run with the Patriots all the more remarkable, btw, and which is why I think Coughlin should be ranked AT LEAST with Parcells, in terms of Giants coaches.

By your comments above, you clearly prefer to give more weight to Coughlin's failures than to his victories in high profile, high pressure championship games.

I don't.

You also clearly don't believe in the philosophy of "it's not how you START but how you FINISH" that is important in sports.

I do.

And I'm guessing if you don't yet appreciate the significance of that philosophy, after witnessing the last 2 Giants Super Bowl runs, you never will. Oh well.

The fact that I think Parcells was a better coach for the Giants than Coughlin is now does not mean that I don't appreciate everything that Coughlin has done for this team. I already addressed the 18-0 thing, I think the accomplishment of going into San Francisco with your backup QB and beating the 2x defending super bowl champions is of equal quality.

While it's great that Coughlin is winning in an era of free agency, the other coaches he competes with have to deal with that too. In Parcells days, he had to deal with the loaded 49ers teams of the 80's that didn't have to deal with free agency either.

The matter still stands that when Parcells coached, the NFC East was hands down the best division in football, and the NFC was clearly the stronger conference. I can't say the same about Coughlin's years, and it's only been the last 2 years or so that I'd say the NFC has been a stronger conference than the AFC.

You mention how its important how you FINISH, but how many late season collapses did Coughlin have as opposed to Parcells? Tuna's teams were more disciplined and more consistent.

I disagree with your Parcells teams "were more disciplined and more consistent" assumption.

While Parcells' 2 Super Bowl teams were more dominant in the league at the time than were Coughlin's 2 Super Bowl teams, true, it's also true that Parcells had 2 teams that were 5th in their division, while Coughlin's teams were never worse than 3rd in their division.

Even allowing for the eventual league realignment reducing the number of teams in a division from 5 (in most divisions) to 4 in every division, Parcells had 2 losing seasons to go with his 2 dominant seasons, while Coughlin had only 1 losing season.

Parcells Giants teams won the NFC East title 3 times, Coughlin's Giants won the NFC East title 3 times.

And the fact that Parcells had only 3 more total wins in his 8 years than did Coughlin in his 8 years, they both made it to the playoffs 5 times, they both had 8-3 post season records, they both won 2 Super Bowls.

How does that point to Parcells teams being "more consistent" than Coughlin's?

Hell, they even each had a 10-6 season without making it to the post season--each one losing out to 10-6 Eagles teams--in between their respective 2 Super Bowls.

As for your "more disciplined" attribute to Parcells-coached Giants, well, that's purely subjective on your part, isn't it? There is no factual evidence to support your assumption about that--and I'm not even going to bring up LT's chronically self-indulgent "hobby" at the time, that Parcells was forced to ignore at first, then to suppress, and eventually to cover up. More disciplined?

Oh, yeah, your dismissal of Coughlin's achievements in this free agency era by saying "the other coaches he competes with have to deal with that too" is incredibly thick and deliberately blind, to put it politely.

YEAH, THEY DO, and that's why NO OTHER HEAD COACH besides Belichick and Shanahan HAS WON 2 SUPER BOWLS in the free agency era the past 19 seasons.

Because it's very difficult to sustain continuity of team excellence when every team loses key starters, every season. It requires an unusually gifted head coach and staff to achieve that continuity in the face of continual personnel disruption.

All in all, if anything this comparison underscores what I claimed earlier in this thread. That the 2 coaches should really be placed on the same shelf as Giants head coaches, not listed as one "better" than the other.

buffyblue
02-07-2012, 08:33 PM
LTs ďhobbyĒ that Bill Parcells covered up is something I donít think Tom Coughlin would have done. I think Tom Coughlin would have tried to get him the help that he needed.

SweetZombieJesus
02-07-2012, 08:48 PM
I'll start off by saying that Coughlin probably won't **** us over by resigning after rookie mini camp this year...

However, Parcells had to deal with a very good divisional nemesis in Joe Gibbs and thorn-in-the-side Eagles but a bad Cowboys squad... Tom can't get past Andy Reid but Reid hasn't won 3 SBs, he owns the Cowboys, and the Redskins are the ones who are bad.

Parcells also had conference rivals such as the Bears and 49ers. Tom, maybe the Saints and they kick our *** every time.

Parcells didn't tolerate premature celebrations for a microsecond.

gmen46
02-07-2012, 09:15 PM
LTs ďhobbyĒ that Bill Parcells covered up is something I donít think Tom Coughlin would have done. I think Tom Coughlin would have tried to get him the help that he needed.

Precisely so.

Although, this is a different time, and to be fair, who knows what Coughlin would have done if he were the HC in the 80s with LT?

Jotun_Fan
02-07-2012, 10:09 PM
Again, you keep saying I'm "dismissive" of the things Coughlin has accomplished, I'm not dismissive of anything he's done, he's a great coach. I just think that Bill Parcells was a better coach because his teams didn't have the tendency to fold like a lawnchair. You still haven't addressed the point that the NFC East that Parcells competed in was much more competitive than the NFC East that Coughlin has competed in, or the fact that the NFC in general was more competitive then.

And I'm curious if you think that winning SB's in the free agency era is so much harder, is Belichick far and away the greatest coach ever , winning three and reaching two other super bowls?

buffyblue
02-07-2012, 10:24 PM
Again, you keep saying I'm "dismissive" of the things Coughlin has accomplished, I'm not dismissive of anything he's done, he's a great coach. I just think that Bill Parcells was a better coach because his teams didn't have the tendency to fold like a lawnchair. You still haven't addressed the point that the NFC East that Parcells competed in was much more competitive than the NFC East that Coughlin has competed in, or the fact that the NFC in general was more competitive then.

And I'm curious if you think that winning SB's in the free agency era is so much harder, is Belichick far and away the greatest coach ever , winning three and reaching two other super bowls?

I think that there is a very strong argument that Bill Bellichek may be the best coach ever.

JMFP2
02-07-2012, 10:48 PM
I'll start off by saying that Coughlin probably won't **** us over by resigning after rookie mini camp this year...

However, Parcells had to deal with a very good divisional nemesis in Joe Gibbs and thorn-in-the-side Eagles but a bad Cowboys squad... Tom can't get past Andy Reid but Reid hasn't won 3 SBs, he owns the Cowboys, and the Redskins are the ones who are bad.

Parcells also had conference rivals such as the Bears and 49ers. Tom, maybe the Saints and they kick our *** every time.

Parcells didn't tolerate premature celebrations for a microsecond.
</P>


</P>


I loved Parcells, and I'm a huge Coughlin fan.</P>


But I'll say this: Parcells NEVER had the sort of support from George Young that Coughlin got from Accorsi &amp; Reese. </P>


The Parcells/Young relationship was poisoned; Young was thinking about canning Parcells in 1983- the year both his parents died. Thank God for Wellington Mara, or that fat ******* would have probably gone ahead and done it.</P>


Young let Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin walk......Ernie Accorsi deserves mad props for repairing all the damage that pompous *** caused.</P>

yatitle
02-07-2012, 10:58 PM
Maybe from a coaching standpoint, but keep in mind the Parcells accomplishments goes beyond coaching.* He turned a horrible Pats team into contenders.* He turned the Cowboys team around.* He turned the Dolphins team around.</P>


So imo, Parcells has done a lot more.</P>


</P>


Career wise there's no comparison.</P>


What about from a Giants perspective.</P>


Who was the better Giants coach?</P>

Lets start with career wise 172-130 .570 winning % for Parcells and 142-114 .555 winnibg % for TC. If TC has 3 more years averaging 10 wins they are even and TC getting Jax to AFC championship in 2nd year trumps anything Fatty did post Giants. And I don't want to hear about his Super Bowl loss in New England. He disgraced himself by interviewing for Jets job during the SB week.

As for your original question TC has been the far superior Giants coach. Because he always valued the job and the organiztion unlike Parcells who not only flirted with taking the Falcons and Bucs job while Giants coach but left them in the lurch by resigning in May 1991 AFTER both TC and BB took HC jobs.

yatitle
02-07-2012, 11:05 PM
I'll start off by saying that Coughlin probably won't **** us over by resigning after rookie mini camp this year...

However, Parcells had to deal with a very good divisional nemesis in Joe Gibbs and thorn-in-the-side Eagles but a bad Cowboys squad...* Tom can't get past Andy Reid but Reid hasn't won 3 SBs, he owns the Cowboys, and the Redskins are the ones who are bad.

Parcells also had conference rivals such as the Bears and 49ers.* Tom, maybe the Saints and they kick our *** every time.

Parcells didn't tolerate premature celebrations for a microsecond.
</P>


*</P>


I loved Parcells, and I'm a huge Coughlin fan.</P>


But I'll say this:* Parcells NEVER had the sort of support from George Young that Coughlin got from Accorsi & Reese.* </P>


The Parcells/Young relationship was poisoned; Young was thinking about canning Parcells in 1983*- the year both his parents died.* Thank God for Wellington Mara, or that fat ******* would have probably gone ahead and done it.</P>


Young let Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin walk......Ernie Accorsi deserves mad props for repairing all the damage that pompous *** caused.</P>

Young didn't "let" any of those walk. TC was hired by BC after 91 SB, BB was hired by Browns and Fatty quit in May 1991. If he quit after SB, either TC or BB would have succeeded Parcells as HC

JMFP2
02-07-2012, 11:07 PM
I'll start off by saying that Coughlin probably won't **** us over by resigning after rookie mini camp this year...

However, Parcells had to deal with a very good divisional nemesis in Joe Gibbs and thorn-in-the-side Eagles but a bad Cowboys squad... Tom can't get past Andy Reid but Reid hasn't won 3 SBs, he owns the Cowboys, and the Redskins are the ones who are bad.

Parcells also had conference rivals such as the Bears and 49ers. Tom, maybe the Saints and they kick our *** every time.

Parcells didn't tolerate premature celebrations for a microsecond.
</P>


</P>


I loved Parcells, and I'm a huge Coughlin fan.</P>


But I'll say this: Parcells NEVER had the sort of support from George Young that Coughlin got from Accorsi &amp; Reese. </P>


The Parcells/Young relationship was poisoned; Young was thinking about canning Parcells in 1983- the year both his parents died. Thank God for Wellington Mara, or that fat ******* would have probably gone ahead and done it.</P>


Young let Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin walk......Ernie Accorsi deserves mad props for repairing all the damage that pompous *** caused.</P>


Young didn't "let" any of those walk. TC was hired by BC after 91 SB, BB was hired by Browns and Fatty quit in May 1991. If he quit after SB, either TC or BB would have succeeded Parcells as HC</P>


Belichick and Coughlin were given zero consideration because they were "Parcells guys".....so they walked, too. And then Youngselected someone most like himself - Ray Handley.</P>


Ironically, it was Ernie Accorsi who helped Belichick get his head coaching start.</P>


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-blundered-ray-handley-hire-launched-bill-belichick-career-article-1.345698</P>


</P>

yatitle
02-07-2012, 11:12 PM
I'll start off by saying that Coughlin probably won't **** us over by resigning after rookie mini camp this year...

However, Parcells had to deal with a very good divisional nemesis in Joe Gibbs and thorn-in-the-side Eagles but a bad Cowboys squad...* Tom can't get past Andy Reid but Reid hasn't won 3 SBs, he owns the Cowboys, and the Redskins are the ones who are bad.

Parcells also had conference rivals such as the Bears and 49ers.* Tom, maybe the Saints and they kick our *** every time.

Parcells didn't tolerate premature celebrations for a microsecond.
</P>


*</P>


I loved Parcells, and I'm a huge Coughlin fan.</P>


But I'll say this:* Parcells NEVER had the sort of support from George Young that Coughlin got from Accorsi & Reese.* </P>


The Parcells/Young relationship was poisoned; Young was thinking about canning Parcells in 1983*- the year both his parents died.* Thank God for Wellington Mara, or that fat ******* would have probably gone ahead and done it.</P>


Young let Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin walk......Ernie Accorsi deserves mad props for repairing all the damage that pompous *** caused.</P>


Young didn't "let" any of those walk. TC was hired by BC after 91 SB, BB was hired by Browns and Fatty quit in May 1991. If he quit after SB, either TC or BB would have succeeded Parcells as HC</P>


Belichick and Coughlin were given zero consideration because they were "Parcells guys".....so they walked, too.* And then Young*selected someone most like himself - Ray Handley.</P>


Ironically, it was Ernie Accorsi who helped Belichick get his head coaching start.</P>


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-blundered-ray-handley-hire-launched-bill-belichick-career-article-1.345698</P>


*</P>

They were given zero consideration because they had already accepted other HC jobs. Saw the link but that just proves Gary Meyers is clueless.

JMFP2
02-07-2012, 11:36 PM
I'll start off by saying that Coughlin probably won't **** us over by resigning after rookie mini camp this year...

However, Parcells had to deal with a very good divisional nemesis in Joe Gibbs and thorn-in-the-side Eagles but a bad Cowboys squad... Tom can't get past Andy Reid but Reid hasn't won 3 SBs, he owns the Cowboys, and the Redskins are the ones who are bad.

Parcells also had conference rivals such as the Bears and 49ers. Tom, maybe the Saints and they kick our *** every time.

Parcells didn't tolerate premature celebrations for a microsecond.
</P>


</P>


I loved Parcells, and I'm a huge Coughlin fan.</P>


But I'll say this: Parcells NEVER had the sort of support from George Young that Coughlin got from Accorsi &amp; Reese. </P>


The Parcells/Young relationship was poisoned; Young was thinking about canning Parcells in 1983- the year both his parents died. Thank God for Wellington Mara, or that fat ******* would have probably gone ahead and done it.</P>


Young let Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin walk......Ernie Accorsi deserves mad props for repairing all the damage that pompous *** caused.</P>


Young didn't "let" any of those walk. TC was hired by BC after 91 SB, BB was hired by Browns and Fatty quit in May 1991. If he quit after SB, either TC or BB would have succeeded Parcells as HC</P>


Belichick and Coughlin were given zero consideration because they were "Parcells guys".....so they walked, too. And then Youngselected someone most like himself - Ray Handley.</P>


Ironically, it was Ernie Accorsi who helped Belichick get his head coaching start.</P>


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-blundered-ray-handley-hire-launched-bill-belichick-career-article-1.345698</P>


</P>


They were given zero consideration because they had already accepted other HC jobs. Saw the link but that just proves Gary Meyers is clueless.</P>


If they were in the running for the job, they might have stuck around. But if you're not in the running, and your boss is going to split, you make other plans. This is thesort of stuff that happens every day in organizations.</P>

gmen46
02-08-2012, 05:26 AM
Again, you keep saying I'm "dismissive" of the things Coughlin has accomplished, I'm not dismissive of anything he's done, he's a great coach. I just think that Bill Parcells was a better coach because his teams didn't have the tendency to fold like a lawnchair. You still haven't addressed the point that the NFC East that Parcells competed in was much more competitive than the NFC East that Coughlin has competed in, or the fact that the NFC in general was more competitive then.

And I'm curious if you think that winning SB's in the free agency era is so much harder, is Belichick far and away the greatest coach ever , winning three and reaching two other super bowls?

In the 80s the only team in the NFC East that was constantly an annual competitive threat to the Giants were the Redskins under Gibbs.

The Eagles were listless after their 1980 Super Bowl season, until Ryan's 2nd year as Eagles HC in 87, then they began to be a threat along with the Redskins.

The 80s were basically a lost decade for the Cowboys, never really recovering from "the Catch" NFC Championship game vs the Niners in 81. They were not nearly as competitive in the 80s as they were in the 70s or the nineties.

The Cardinals were the Cardinals. No competition to any of the rest of the division.

Meanwhile, since 2001, the Eagles have been seriously competitive in the division and/or led the division, playing in the post season every year except 2005, 07, and 2011.

The Cowboys have been very competitive since the first year (2003) Parcells became HC until their 2010 crash, returning to their contending form for much of the 2011 season , in the playoff hunt until the final game of the season.

And the Redskins haven't been worth **** since Snyder bought the team in 1999 or 2000.

So I would disagree with your "NFC East was so much more competitive" in the 80s than it has been since Coughlin has been HC of the Giants.

I also disagree with your claim the NFC "in general" was more competitive in the 80s than it has been the last decade. In fact there is an argument to be made that in the past decade the NFC has been MORE competitive.

You must be confusing NFC Super Bowl dominance over the AFC from 1981 -1996 with it being "more competitive".

The reality was that there were a small handful of highly competitive NFC teams during that period--Niners, Redskins, Bears, Giants, and towards the end of that period, the Cowboys, Packers--6 teams who shared the 15 Super Bowls among themselves. The rest of the NFC during that period were not so hot.

Whereas, during the past 12 seasons the Giants have been the only NFC team to appear in the Super Bowl more than once, which says a lot about how competitively balanced the NFC has become, that it is not as heavily tilted in favor of two-three teams to the exclusion of the rest of the conference, as opposed to all the decades prior to free agency.

And, yes, Belichick IS real close--if not already there-- to being "far and away the greatest coach ever" in the NFL, certainly in the past 46 years of the "modern" era of the NFL, after achieving a 3-2 record in 5 Super Bowls in a 12 year span.

Not only all the Super Bowl appearances, but his Patriots have been AFC East champs all but a couple years since 2001.

Only 2 other coaches in the Super Bowl era of the NFL (46 years) has ever taken his team to the Super Bowl at least five times--Don Shula (6 including 1 loss as Colts HC) and Tom Landry (5)--and they each won only 2.

But if you don't appreciate how extremely difficult it is to accomplish what Belichick has accomplished with the Patriots in his 12 years there, in the era of free agency and BECAUSE of free agency, then I don't know what to tell you.

Ask yourself why Don Shula was the last HC to take his team to a 5th SB, other than Belichick, and that 5th with Miami was nearly 30 years ago.

foosball
02-08-2012, 06:23 AM
I will be totally honest with you. Apples and Oranges.

foosball
02-08-2012, 06:28 AM
Alot of similarities.</p>


Playoff record, 8-3 vs. 7-3</p>


i'm wondering if the opponents tip the scales on this one.</p>


Should be a good discussion now.</p>


</p>


It's a great and legit question. I really respect TC, but I have to say Parcells...and it's not even close. How often did a Parcells team under-perform? We've seen quite a few games (and seasons) where TC's Giants just seemed to flop. You didn't see that nearly as much with the Parcells' Giants.</p>


This is NOT criticism of TC...just pointing out what I think is a big difference between the two. And the '86 Parcells Giants were the only Giants SB team to actually by the favorite. Now THAT was a dominate team.</p>

Really? It happened more then you think. Were you alive back then? 83, 87, 88 seasons, the 89 playoff game to name a few.

Phil Simms once said his BIGGEST regret as a player was with their talent they should have won more then just 2 super bowls, and that not making the playoffs in 1987 or 1988 was totally unacceptable. While you can blame the scabs for some of 87, Parcells was still coaching them.

coachjdc
02-08-2012, 09:08 AM
Don't have time to read all the responses, so I apologize if someone else mentions this. As Giant coaches, I'd rate them dead even right now. If Tom comes back next year and makes the playoffs, then he moves up. If he retires next week and the Giants are able to land the coach of their choice, then Tom also wins. Remember, Bill left suddenly and late leaving us stuck with Ray Handley.

SweetZombieJesus
02-08-2012, 09:15 AM
BP has always been very self-centered and power hungry, and his exits have always been ungraceful, messy divorces.

TC is very humble and loyal... And I don't picture him EVER leaving a team the way Bill did several times.



I can't recall Parcells teams flopping in the big games/playoffs (losing, yes, but not in disgusting no-shows), but the flip side is not pulling the team back from the brink. Parcells was more steady, TC more peaks and valleys.

So many home playoff memories from Parcells -- destroying the 49ers &amp; Washington in 86, etc. Only one home playoff win total for Coughlin.