PDA

View Full Version : Why is Warner so bitter????



M0rbid
02-07-2012, 06:14 PM
I heard his interview on ESPN, why is this guy so bitter on Eli Manning?<font size="4"> GROW UP KURT!!!</font>

jaygoon
02-07-2012, 06:16 PM
You going to tell us what he said?

M0rbid
02-07-2012, 06:17 PM
He's acting like Eli's career has been pedestrian even with two SB MVP's.....

Axels15
02-07-2012, 06:18 PM
Apparently he said something along the lines of "Eli is nowhere near good enough to get into the hall of fame"

ELIteManning
02-07-2012, 06:21 PM
In an appearance with Burns and Gambo on Arizona Sports 620 in Phoenix, Warner made the case against Eli’s potential induction into the Hall of Fame.

“I fully disagree with that,” Warner said of talk that Eli will get in. “You know because I know we put a lot of weight on championships, and rightfully so. But championships are won as a team, and I’m fully convinced of that. You never see one guy — a great player, great quarterback — carry a team through the playoffs and into a Super Bowl and win a Super Bowl that way. I’ve never seen it. You know even in that game [Super Bowl XLVI], it’s 21-17. That’s the game. There wasn’t a quarterback just up and down the field carrying the team.

“Yeah, he made the plays down the stretch, no question about it,” added Warner, who spent the 2004 season with Eli in New York. “He’s had two great playoff runs, or his team has had two great playoff runs. But I also look at the rest of his career. I mean, he has an 82 . . . quarterback rating throughout his career. You know, he’s had five of his eight seasons where he has thrown 16 interceptions or more. His completion percentage on his career is 58 percent. To me, those aren’t Hall of Fame numbers and by that I mean every time you step on the field you’re a game changer, you’re a difference maker. And I don’t believe Eli Manning has been that guy until this year. I think this year is the first time in his career when he’s become that guy.”

Warner said that, if Eli performs like he did this year for five more seasons, then he’ll be worthy of inclusion among the league’s all-time greats. Without that, Warner thinks Eli should be kept out due to the fact that he has been “extremely inconsistent throughout his career.”

bg79
02-07-2012, 06:24 PM
Well, he's right. Eli's body of work is not Hall of Fame worthy YET. That is unless you're one of those people who puts 95% of their judgement of someone's career based on Superbowls. This was Eli's first seasons where he was amongst the top QB's statwise. If he keeps that up along with his post season resume I believe he will get in, but if he reverts to what we saw with all the INT's and whatnot it'll take more than two great postseasons to put someone in the Hall..... or at least it SHOULD. I think the whole Superbowl MVP thing is entirely subjective anyways and usually goes to the QB by default unless there was someone who was notably spectacular. Eli played a good game but I certainly have seen better out of him this season. My guess is that if Hakeem Nicks had a TD on his statline to go with his 10 receptions and over 100 yards he'd probably of received the MVP. It's not to diminish from Eli but some people are basing their coronation of him entirely off the MVP status.

Husky
02-07-2012, 06:28 PM
Apparently he said something along the lines of "Eli is nowhere near good enough to get into the hall of fame"Apparently that would be true, if his career was over. Has there been a
2 Time SB winning QB, 2 Time SB MVP QB ever not been a shoe in for the
HOF? I keep hearing that it's Championships that count.

calzonesays
02-07-2012, 06:30 PM
Considering a lot of the same pundits say Big Ben is a hall of famer because he's won 2 SBs. How come it doesn't work the same way with Eli? Big Ben wasn't even the reason the steelers won vs. Seattle.

Also, pretty bad timing for Kurt Warner, ur a random retired dude and the day of the parade you say this?

LondonGman
02-07-2012, 06:47 PM
I respect Warner's general position on quarterback play - he knows of which he speaks. You absolutely cannot doubt that for the first three years of his career Eli was a work in progress. But, saying that, Warner should have issued a massive disclaimer here and said he is just bitter about his own performance and exit in New York. For the record, in Warner's 9 starts for New York he had 6 touchdowns and 4 interceptions. As a comparable - has Eli ever looked that bad since 2007? Also, at Eli's equivalent stages in his career Kurt has just checked in three year ratings of 76, 72 and 86 and was cut by two teams.

His QB rating at NYG was 86.5. This is hardly a stellar figure. Granted you can blame a small sample size but the bald facts are that Warner's QB rating only passed 95 in 4 of 11 seasons. In some seasons he was great and then next year, awful. And 2 of those great statistical seasons ended in Superbowl defeat. Is that "a consistent body of work", Kurt?

bg79
02-07-2012, 06:57 PM
I respect Warner's general position on quarterback play - he knows of which he speaks. You absolutely cannot doubt that for the first three years of his career Eli was a work in progress. But, saying that, Warner should have issued a massive disclaimer here and said he is just bitter about his own performance and exit in New York. For the record, in Warner's 9 starts for New York he had 6 touchdowns and 4 interceptions. As a comparable - has Eli ever looked that bad since 2007? Also, at Eli's equivalent stages in his career Kurt has just checked in three year ratings of 76, 72 and 86 and was cut by two teams.

His QB rating at NYG was 86.5. This is hardly a stellar figure. Granted you can blame a small sample size but the bald facts are that Warner's QB rating only passed 95 in 4 of 11 seasons. In some seasons he was great and then next year, awful. And 2 of those great statistical seasons ended in Superbowl defeat. Is that "a consistent body of work", Kurt?


Has Kurt said that he believes that he himself is a future Hall of Famer? He could just believe in very high standards to be a Hall of Famer.

allentown PA
02-07-2012, 07:01 PM
for **** sake just enjoy the win who cares what hack overly creppy religious *******s think or say..It was a great run and Eli was great..enjoy it giant fans.

Moss#83
02-07-2012, 07:03 PM
Kurt in NY couldn't do anything with a pss poor o line. He took sacks left and right. We saw Eli and how he plays with a poor pass protection o line his entire career. 2 SB.

Even in Eli's rookie year I saw glimpses of why the decision to remove Kurt as the QB was the correct one.

GameTime
02-07-2012, 07:04 PM
I respect Warner's general position on quarterback play - he knows of which he speaks. You absolutely cannot doubt that for the first three years of his career Eli was a work in progress. But, saying that, Warner should have issued a massive disclaimer here and said he is just bitter about his own performance and exit in New York. For the record, in Warner's 9 starts for New York he had 6 touchdowns and 4 interceptions. As a comparable - has Eli ever looked that bad since 2007? Also, at Eli's equivalent stages in his career Kurt has just checked in three year ratings of 76, 72 and 86 and was cut by two teams.

His QB rating at NYG was 86.5. This is hardly a stellar figure. Granted you can blame a small sample size but the bald facts are that Warner's QB rating only passed 95 in 4 of 11 seasons. In some seasons he was great and then next year, awful. And 2 of those great statistical seasons ended in Superbowl defeat. Is that "a consistent body of work", Kurt?


Has Kurt said that he believes that he himself is a future Hall of Famer? He could just believe in very high standards to be a Hall of Famer.
</P>


he does hold it in high standards. he feels Eli has been too inconsistent other than this season. He said based on Eli's career so far even with the 2 SB wins he doesn have the numbers to get in. If Eli's career ended tomorrow he wouldnt have the body of work to get in....</P>


Besdies its only his opinion....he is entitled to it...</P>

BigBlueOnes
02-07-2012, 07:06 PM
He's right. He needs another year or two of performance like this year I would think. What if he chucks 30 INT's next season, like last season? I think Kurt is being fair here.

LondonGman
02-07-2012, 07:07 PM
Good point. He may well not and fair play to him. It just looks, to me, like he's eyed up Eli's record a bit much for it to be a "big picture" review of a career to date.

The most interesting stat he threw in there, for me, was his 15 interceptions line. Is 15 interceptions somehow an internationally accepted level of garbage that I havent heard of - if you are below this, you are stellar - above, questionable? Warner - and he may well put his hands up to this - had 6 seasons of 13 or more interceptions. Is that worthy of serious consideration, in amongst Warner's other substantial achievements when it comes to hall of fame evaluation?

BrianK
02-07-2012, 07:07 PM
hall of famers with qb rating of 82 or less

Troy Aikman



Bart Starr
Fran Tarkenton
Dan Fouts
John Elway
Johnny Unitas
Bob Griese
Norm Van Brocklin
Sid Luckman
Y.A. Tittle
Sammy Baugh
Terry Bradshaw
Joe Namath
Bobby Layne
Bob Waterfield
George Blanda

giantsforce
02-07-2012, 07:37 PM
hall of famers with qb rating of 82 or less

Troy Aikman



Bart Starr
Fran Tarkenton
Dan Fouts
John Elway
Johnny Unitas
Bob Griese
Norm Van Brocklin
Sid Luckman
Y.A. Tittle
Sammy Baugh
Terry Bradshaw
Joe Namath
Bobby Layne
Bob Waterfield
George BlandaWhy is Aikman a HOF?

Voldamort
02-07-2012, 07:43 PM
F-WARNER go bag some groceries!!!

tikiandphil
02-07-2012, 07:43 PM
Bitter, party of one

RoanokeFan
02-07-2012, 07:51 PM
It is possible Warner resents Eli for having been drafted by the GIANTS? Didn't Warner ask to be released/traded when they did draft Eli? Could it be sour grapes from Warner?

Big Blue 418
02-07-2012, 07:59 PM
It is possible Warner resents Eli for having been drafted by the GIANTS?* Didn't Warner ask to be released/traded when they did draft Eli?* Could it be sour grapes from Warner?


Thats what it sounds like . By his logic he isn't a hall of famer since he had the greatest show on turf to work with

NYGRealityCheck
02-07-2012, 08:03 PM
From what I remeber, Kurt Warner was a deer looking at headlights when he played for the Giants. He held onto the ball way too long and gave up sacks like free samples at Costco's.

Also... Nick-Manningham-Cruz > Fitz, Boldin, Breaston (Cardinals playoff run). Eat it Warner!

Moss#83
02-07-2012, 08:12 PM
It is possible Warner resents Eli for having been drafted by the GIANTS?* Didn't Warner ask to be released/traded when they did draft Eli?* Could it be sour grapes from Warner?
That was Collins

bg79
02-07-2012, 08:43 PM
It's the more sensible position position that Kurt is taking up yet he is being called bitter. People here are getting way too caught up in the moment trying to proclaim someone with a lot of career left a sure fire hall of famer. Kurt is right, Eli needs a larger body of work because as it stands now he's had more unspectacular seasons than spectacular ones. I don't believe Kurt said that Eli won't ever make it to the HOF he was more going by if the vote was held right now. It has only been since the midway point of this season and on that Eli has been even discussed in the top 10 of QB's in the league currently by anyone other than a die hard Giant fan. Give it time, let him establish a larger body of work and the respect will come.

GiantSinceBirth78
02-07-2012, 08:44 PM
I heard his interview on ESPN, why is this guy so bitter on Eli Manning?<font size="4"> GROW UP KURT!!!</font>
i thought i was the only one two notice that. warner is an average qb at best. never really liked him. to me he is a fake.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2012, 09:01 PM
It is possible Warner resents Eli for having been drafted by the GIANTS? Didn't Warner ask to be released/traded when they did draft Eli? Could it be sour grapes from Warner?
That was Collins

Then Collins is just a clown I guess lol

No one knows the answer at this point in time but to simply say Eli's not gong is a little naive.

ru_gmen55
02-07-2012, 09:13 PM
Apparently he said something along the lines of "Eli is nowhere near good enough to get into the hall of fame"Apparently that would be true, if his career was over.* Has there been a
2 Time SB winning QB, 2 Time SB MVP QB ever not been a shoe in for the
HOF?* I keep hearing that it's Championships that count.*

For the record, the only QB to start and win two Super Bowls to not be in the Hall of Fame is Jim Plunkett.

As of now, I think it's silly to say that if he hung it up today he'd be in the Hall of Fame. He has only played 8 seasons. With that said, I have no reason to believe that he won't put up at least 4-5 more seasons similar to or better than this one. This has been the first season that he has been able to combine his mental toughness with 100% consistency on the field. This is his first season where you can't point to several dumb mistakes that contributed to losses. In fact, he was not only mostly-flawless, but he CARRIED THE TEAM for a significant portion of the year.

Next season and beyond, the consistency will remain...I have no doubt in my mind. The Real Eli has arrived. Hopefully that means even more Super Bowls for the Gmen.

DragonSoul
02-07-2012, 09:29 PM
It is possible Warner resents Eli for having been drafted by the GIANTS?* Didn't Warner ask to be released/traded when they did draft Eli?* Could it be sour grapes from Warner?
No that was Collins. They brought in Warner after

Voldamort
02-07-2012, 09:37 PM
go on the NFL.COM and tweet him he will answer you

giantyankee1976
02-07-2012, 09:41 PM
haters gonna hate

what else is new?

jd4160
02-07-2012, 09:43 PM
Kurt Warner is right for what he says - not stellar stats, qb rating etc. But what he and others who say Eli shouldn't be in (at least yet) leave out is the part that really should get him in.

No quarterback has ever had two playoff/SB runs with play that has been so, quite frankly, breathtaking.

2007 - all on the road. Went to Dallas against No. 1 and lead a, what, 46 second drive at the half to save his team. Then to Lambeau at 23 below and Brett Favre. That is Packer weather. Game winning drive. SB 42 - two come from behind 4th qter drive, with the second being game winning. The Giants beat what was considered to be maybe the best in NFL history.

Then backed it up in 2012. Lambeau again and game winning drive again against 15 - 1 team with MVP QB. San Fran hit him 20 times and no turnovers. Back to Pats and game winning 4th qtre come from behind drive. No QB has ever done that.

SB 42 will likely always be considered the greatest SB of all time, but SB 46 will never be far behind. And Eli is MVP of both.

Namath 50% completion, 65 or so QB rating. 50 more INT than TD But he beat what was then considered the best team of all time in the SB and was MVP. I get that he also brought the AFL out of oblivion, but the Colts win, in a remarkable SB, is what got him in.

Even Steve Young, who has never been a big promoter of Eli, said he is in (assuming he just has the same seasons he has been having). No doubt because of his two spectacular playoff/SB runs and wins.

blueomaha
02-07-2012, 09:43 PM
refresh my memory...how many SBs did Warner win??...ohhh...BOOM.....

DragonSoul
02-07-2012, 09:44 PM
Warner is not a shoe in for the HOF either.

Big Blue 418
02-07-2012, 09:45 PM
I will ask how is this even a debate if Joe Namath's in the hall of fame? I mean to knock Joe but he had maybe 4 or 5 season . The last 2 he was injured on bench


If Namath's in . Eli better be

giantyankee1976
02-07-2012, 09:47 PM
is not the Super Bowl the Pinnacle? The Grail? The Big Game?

Some great QBs never won the Big Game, Eli participated in two.

Might as well treat Coach Coughlin the same way, though I still like Parcells a tad more.

If Eli had thrown for 3 TDs who knows...

I hope Eli has a few more excellent Seasons, Super Bowl or not.

If only to make his eternal detractors eat more helpings of crow.

by the way, I HATED the Greatest Show on Turf, though Faulk was truly amazing. I HATE DOME TEAMS, all of them.

Sarcasman
02-07-2012, 09:53 PM
Warner is not a shoe in for the HOF either.

Nor should he be.

He's the ultimate system QB, one who was absolutely awful when asked to play in a system not designed around him.

That's exactly the type of QB he states should not be in the HOF. Tough to argue with the guy when he's the textbook example of that of which he speaks.

CDN_G-FAN
02-07-2012, 10:06 PM
He's right. He needs another year or two of performance like this year I would think. What if he chucks 30 INT's next season, like last season? I think Kurt is being fair here.

+1

Eli keeps correcting the fault early in his career.

First it was accuracy.

Next it was throwing off his back foot when under pressure.

Next was throwing into double coverage to favorite targets (plax, smith).

next was starting the season fantastic and finishing like a complete dog.


The last thing is consistency.

2 of the last 3 years he's played lights out.

string a couple more years together like this one and we've got something.

zimonami
02-07-2012, 10:22 PM
Maybe he's right. Here are some Hall of Fame numbers to compare with Eli, and to give Warner a little cred...
62-63-4 lifetime record
50.1% lifetime completion percentage
176 TD's and 220 INT's.
1 SB ring
Nope, Eli can't compare to Mr. Namath.
Perhaps if Eli had guaranteed a win in one of his 2 SB's he'd be more legit HOF material.
Just sayin'

giantyankee1976
02-07-2012, 11:27 PM
Maybe he's right. Here are some Hall of Fame numbers to compare with Eli, and to give Warner a little cred...
62-63-4 lifetime record
50.1% lifetime completion percentage
176 TD's and 220 INT's.
1 SB ring
Nope, Eli can't compare to Mr. Namath.
Perhaps if Eli had guaranteed a win in one of his 2 SB's he'd be more legit HOF material.
Just sayin'

<font color="#FF0000">yeah but can Eli rock a mink on Broadway ? Well? Can he ?</font>

zimonami
02-07-2012, 11:33 PM
Maybe he's right. Here are some Hall of Fame numbers to compare with Eli, and to give Warner a little cred...
62-63-4 lifetime record
50.1% lifetime completion percentage
176 TD's and 220 INT's.
1 SB ring
Nope, Eli can't compare to Mr. Namath.
Perhaps if Eli had guaranteed a win in one of his 2 SB's he'd be more legit HOF material.
Just sayin'

<font color="#FF0000">yeah but can Eli rock a mink on Broadway ? Well? Can he ?</font>

A white mink, at that. NO, Eli would be wearing an old man's coat, and his short, little boy's haircut.
LOL
I don't have ability to do red anymore,for some reason.
I was a big Nmath fan, but everyone understands he's only in there because of the impact of that one game on the upcoming merger.

greenca190
02-07-2012, 11:36 PM
Maybe he's right. Here are some Hall of Fame numbers to compare with Eli, and to give Warner a little cred...
62-63-4 lifetime record
50.1% lifetime completion percentage
176 TD's and 220 INT's.
1 SB ring
Nope, Eli can't compare to Mr. Namath.
Perhaps if Eli had guaranteed a win in one of his 2 SB's he'd be more legit HOF material.
Just sayin'

<font color="#FF0000">yeah but can Eli rock a mink on Broadway ? Well? Can he ?</font>

A white mink, at that. NO, Eli would be wearing an old man's coat, and his short, little boy's haircut.
LOL
I don't have ability to do red anymore,for some reason.
I was a big Nmath fan, but everyone understands he's only in there because of the impact of that one game on the upcoming merger.

That, and those Jets teams really pushed forward the evolution of an NFL style offense.

And he was the first 4,000 yard passer ever.

Harooni
02-07-2012, 11:46 PM
he doesnt have to win more sb's imo. HOF will look for numbers like this reg season from eli. IMO a few more seasons.

PRFan
02-08-2012, 01:03 AM
He is right. He only has 1 HOF year, this one. The superbowls sure help but he needs to have 3 or 4 more years like this one and hey, maybe a couple more superbowls! Those wouldn't hurt!! ;)

bflo23
02-08-2012, 01:23 AM
This is exactly what Warner said...

"Now, if he plays the same way he played this year, the rest of his
career, and you give him five more years, and then add the two
championships, then I think we have reason to debate, and he's probably
going to be in the Hall of Fame in that position."

I have a problem from this statement. So Warner thinks that Eli has to play like the 2011 Eli for 5 MORE PRO BOWL YEARS and then there is a debate? Does Warner realize that he made only 4 pro bowls? If he played like 2011 Eli for 5 more years, he is pretty much saying Eli needs 5 more pro bowl years. If Eli played for 5 more years like 2011 season, he would be the <font size="3">#6 QB in career passing TDs in NFL history</font>. (29 TDs x 5)...... He thinks Eli needs 330 TDs to get in the "debate"? Just 1 more year, Eli can pass bradshaw, warner and steve young in TD passes.

Warner had only 208 career TDs, only 1 championship, 2 SUPER BOWL LOSSES and yet, he wants to see Eli get 5 more pro bowl years and 330 TDs?! And he rips on Eli's QB rating. Does Warner know that John Elway has a only 79 QB rating and only twice in his 16 year career, he finished with over 90 QB rating? Does Warner realize that Eli has better QB rating than Brady in the playoffs? Warner downplays Eli's playoff performance and the championships too much because he only has 1. Just a little bitter, Warner?

rickker20
02-08-2012, 01:29 AM
I wonder if he will keep talking crap after ELI wins another 2 superbowls and 2 more MVP's!!!!

bflo23
02-08-2012, 01:38 AM
I wonder if he will keep talking crap after ELI wins another 2 superbowls and 2 more MVP's!!!!

When I saw the title, I thought it meant if he retired right now at this moment.... Then I read the article and he said that Eli needs 5 more pro bowl years like this year. That is so ridiculous.

And if Eli were to win 2 more super bowls and 2 more mvps, Warner would downplay it and say "One QB can't win the super bowl. It takes a team."

I lose a little respect for Warner now.

DragonSoul
02-08-2012, 01:46 AM
I wonder if he will keep talking crap after ELI wins another 2 superbowls and 2 more MVP's!!!!won't matter.

look@dafilm
02-08-2012, 01:50 AM
Eli will need another couple of years like the one he just had to be in consideration for the Hall. Even when the Giants won in '07 he had incredibly average-below average numbers/games.

I was actually really surprised that Tyree was that super bowl's MVP. After that catch and the TD he had, I was sure it was him. Manning should have gotten this one though.

bflo23
02-08-2012, 02:06 AM
All the Giant fans are wishing the 49ers sign Trent Dilfer... ooops I mean Alex Smith to a 10 year contract.

look@dafilm
02-08-2012, 02:12 AM
All the Giant fans are wishing the 49ers sign Trent Dilfer... ooops I mean Alex Smith to a 10 year contract.


The same Trent Dilfer that's best season wasn't even close to what Alex has done this year and actually the 2 years prior as well?

Its moot anyway, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is meaningless. Almost all 49er fans expect Smith to be a bridge (useful one though. just ask the Saints :D ) to another QB. Hopefully Kaepernick is that guy.

bflo23
02-08-2012, 02:16 AM
All the Giant fans are wishing the 49ers sign Trent Dilfer... ooops I mean Alex Smith to a 10 year contract.


The same Trent Dilfer that's best season wasn't even close to what Alex has done this year and actually the 2 years prior as well?

Its moot anyway, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is meaningless. Almost all 49er fans expect Smith to be a bridge (useful one though. just ask the Saints :D ) to another QB. Hopefully Kaepernick is that guy.


Next season, I know 49er stadium will be chanting for Kaepernick like they did for Carr that time. That "bridge" is just another failure of winning the Super Bowl. What are the 49ers trying to prove?

KezZone
02-08-2012, 02:18 AM
All the Giant fans are wishing the 49ers sign Trent Dilfer... ooops I mean Alex Smith to a 10 year contract.


The same Trent Dilfer that's best season wasn't even close to what Alex has done this year and actually the 2 years prior as well?

Its moot anyway, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is meaningless. Almost all 49er fans expect Smith to be a bridge (useful one though. just ask the Saints :D ) to another QB. Hopefully Kaepernick is that guy.


Alex Smith is a game manager, isn't consistently clutch. What happen against the Saints couldn't be replicated against the Giants, a real defense.

Bohemian
02-08-2012, 02:19 AM
I have never really trusted Warner's assessment of Eli on NFL network. He always seems like saying positive things about Eli while holding back about his career progression. You know that he is bitter for having to be a back up to Eli, and that he never got a chance to play for a true championship caliber franchise. Both, the rams and cardinals are but flashes in the pan. I really have to time for Warner and his hollow words. Eli is already a HOF candidate in my eyes, and if he wins another SB, you can start writing it in stone that he will be imortalized in Canton some day... the only real question, is whether or not be becomes a first ballot HOFer.

calzonesays
02-08-2012, 02:21 AM
So this is pretty much the last 49ers troll in existence on here right, 99% of them snuck out the back door after the NFCCG, but this guy randomly resurfaces after the SB and the parade...funny stuff.

look@dafilm
02-08-2012, 02:25 AM
All the Giant fans are wishing the 49ers sign Trent Dilfer... ooops I mean Alex Smith to a 10 year contract.


The same Trent Dilfer that's best season wasn't even close to what Alex has done this year and actually the 2 years prior as well?

Its moot anyway, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is meaningless. Almost all 49er fans expect Smith to be a bridge (useful one though. just ask the Saints :D ) to another QB. Hopefully Kaepernick is that guy.


Alex Smith is a game manager, isn't consistently clutch. What happen against the Saints couldn't be replicated against the Giants, a real defense.

I know huh. Its not like he already beat them like say, week 10 or anything. 91 QBR, real "game manager". You know that Smith twice as many passing yards and a QBR of 15 points higher this year than Dilfer had with his Baltimore SB run? I just though I'd bring that up since Dilfer was already brought up and that year he had is always the quintisential "game manager" nonsense that gets brought up.

Bohemian
02-08-2012, 02:25 AM
Why is Alex Smith even part of the conversation? He has not proven anything to this day, besides saving his job with a consistently descent year. I don't get this Smith nonsense, but whatever, I do wish him well and have no bad feeling towards him. But don't even begin to think that he is in the same class as Eli... that would just be lunacy.

KezZone
02-08-2012, 02:26 AM
Anyway, on to Kurt Warner. His argument against Eli is extremely bias, considering the QBs who already have been inducted into the Hall of Fame. Case in point Troy Aikman, if you look at his career stats, he is essentially a game manager. He had one season where he threw for 20 TD passes, yes he won three superbowls, but we can play Devil's advocate like Mr. Warner and say his team attributed to those more than him. That's crazy isn't it? Obviously he had to make clutch plays down the stretch to help them win.

Kurt Warner doesn't have the credentials IMO to make that assessment based on what Eli has done, in NY, twice, on the road. Eli didn't have the team Kurt had, and he couldn't even overcome the Patriots. Kurt can put a sock in it.

look@dafilm
02-08-2012, 02:28 AM
That "bridge" is just another failure of winning the Super Bowl. What are the 49ers trying to prove?


Huh?

calzonesays
02-08-2012, 02:30 AM
http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4f1cd71eecad046d7e000007/san-francisco-49ers-kyle-williams-fumbles-against-new-york-giants.jpg

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/kyle_williams_fumble_01232012.jpg

http://cdn.imposemagazine.com/__data/vernon-davis-crying.jpg

http://i.qkme.me/35gy34.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_N5TCcAjkQ &lt;- We Want Carr!!!!!!!!!

KezZone
02-08-2012, 02:30 AM
All the Giant fans are wishing the 49ers sign Trent Dilfer... ooops I mean Alex Smith to a 10 year contract.


The same Trent Dilfer that's best season wasn't even close to what Alex has done this year and actually the 2 years prior as well?

Its moot anyway, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is meaningless. Almost all 49er fans expect Smith to be a bridge (useful one though. just ask the Saints :D ) to another QB. Hopefully Kaepernick is that guy.


Alex Smith is a game manager, isn't consistently clutch. What happen against the Saints couldn't be replicated against the Giants, a real defense.

I know huh. Its not like he already beat them like say, week 10 or anything. 91 QBR, real "game manager". You know that Smith twice as many passing yards and a QBR of 15 points higher this year than Dilfer had with his Baltimore SB run? I just though I'd bring that up since Dilfer was already brought up and that year he had is always the quintisential "game manager" nonsense that gets brought up.


Yes, game manager, strong running game, good defense, Above average-elite TE. Dinks and dunks at the 1 yard line to pad his stats, Coach ensures he doesn't throw the deep ball much so he dosn't throw picks. Run the ball on 3 and 5. Yes, game manager, that what he is. Eli is a champion, Alex isn't even in the conversation, GTFO man. When it came down to it, clutch time, he was what, 1-13 third down. Are you kidding me? 49ers have them a game manager, perfect for the system they run. He won't ever be a big time QB, plain and simple.

GreenZone
02-08-2012, 02:46 AM
Why are some attributing false angst against Eli on the part of Warner? It's a fabrication of someone's fictional hypothesis, then others pile on as if it's fact.

I saw Warner talk about Eli many times in the last couple weeks on NFLN. He was quite objective and even did a friendly interview sit down with Eli, also quite complimentary on his current performance.

Kurt was brutal at times with the Giants in holding the ball too long and losing the ball in the pocket it seemed like at least once a game, the ball would be popped out.

Having said all that, he was fantastic in St. Louis and probably would have had a far greater career himself without the then Cheetriots (that sounds like a Phil Simms pronunciation) SB game.

So, people here that are creating hate because he says Eli has to do more, well,, he's right.

Methinks someone's been watching Skip Bayless a little too much. [:S]

look@dafilm
02-08-2012, 02:48 AM
Why is Alex Smith even part of the conversation?


I agree. I don't know why he's being talked about here. I posted in this thread and all of a sudden people started posting about Smith.

firstgamein49
02-08-2012, 02:57 AM
In my humble opinion, the SB should not be a factor in picking players for the HOF. It did NOT used to be! There have been many great players over the years that never played in the Super Bowl and will still make it to the HOF. Ex. - Tony Gonzalez. There are players who should not be in the HOF because of there body of work. Best ex. I can think of is Lynn Swann. His games in the SB got him into the hall. His regular season stats are very pedestrian. Stallworth's were better.

bflo23
02-08-2012, 02:59 AM
Why are some attributing false angst against Eli on the part of Warner? It's a fabrication of someone's fictional hypothesis, then others pile on as if it's fact.

I saw Warner talk about Eli many times in the last couple weeks on NFLN. He was quite objective and even did a friendly interview sit down with Eli, also quite complimentary on his current performance.

Kurt was brutal at times with the Giants in holding the ball too long and losing the ball in the pocket it seemed like at least once a game, the ball would be popped out.

Having said all that, he was fantastic in St. Louis and probably would have had a far greater career himself without the then Cheetriots (that sounds like a Phil Simms pronunciation) SB game.

So, people here that are creating hate because he says Eli has to do more, well,, he's right.

Methinks someone's been watching Skip Bayless a little too much. [:S]


"Now, if he plays the same way he played this year, the rest of his
career, and you give him five more years, and then add the two
championships, then I think we have reason to debate, and he's probably
going to be in the Hall of Fame in that position."

bflo23
02-08-2012, 03:01 AM
<font size="4">In my humble opinion, the SB should not be a factor in picking players for the HOF.</font> It did NOT used to be! There have been many great players over the years that never played in the Super Bowl and will still make it to the HOF. Ex. - Tony Gonzalez. There are players who should not be in the HOF because of there body of work. Best ex. I can think of is Lynn Swann. His games in the SB got him into the hall. His regular season stats are very pedestrian. Stallworth's were better.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Why don't the NFL just get rid of the playoffs and Super Bowl trophies? Just have the regular season.

look@dafilm
02-08-2012, 03:03 AM
In my humble opinion, the SB should not be a factor in picking players for the HOF. It did NOT used to be! There have been many great players over the years that never played in the Super Bowl and will still make it to the HOF. Ex. - Tony Gonzalez. There are players who should not be in the HOF because of there body of work. Best ex. I can think of is Lynn Swann. His games in the SB got him into the hall. His regular season stats are very pedestrian. Stallworth's were better.


Its because a QB is generally viewed under a consensus as the most important position by far on the football team. Therefore if they're any good (as in, worthy of HOF status) they ought to get at least a SB birth and hopefully "W" in their long, HOF consideration career (NFL QBs, good ones anyway, last much longer than most).

foosball
02-08-2012, 03:10 AM
I thought I responded to this thread already, but for some reason I can't find my post. Here is the deal, who cares what Kurt Warner has to say? Eli was bad in 2004, and from 2005 to 2007 (regular season) he wasn't very impressive. But since the 2007 playoffs he's been a different player. He's gotten better every year, and he just had one of the best post seasons of all time. Heading in to next year he's still going to be the player he is now, he's not going to revert to 2005 Eli. he's going to be a 60 percent passer, he's going to throw for 4,000 yards (If not more as we saw this year), and most important he has shown he can raise his level of play on the highest stage. This is what very few QB's can do, and it is what QB's are judged for. This is reality. Kurt just has to deal with the following fact, barring injury Eli Manning will be in the hall of fame.

firstgamein49
02-08-2012, 03:10 AM
Marino really fits that picture!

Sarcasman
02-08-2012, 08:02 PM
Eli will need another couple of years like the one he just had to be in consideration for the Hall. Even when the Giants won in '07 he had incredibly average-below average numbers/games.

I was actually really surprised that Tyree was that super bowl's MVP. After that catch and the TD he had, I was sure it was him. Manning should have gotten this one though.



He'll simply need to retire to be in consideration for the HOF.

As far as the SB MVPs go, unless one player has an unbelievable game, the default pick is the QB. It's neither bad nor good, it just is.

Tyree didn't deserve it. His 3 for 43 with a TD is not exactly a Jerry Rice-like SB performance.

Sarcasman
02-08-2012, 08:10 PM
All the Giant fans are wishing the 49ers sign Trent Dilfer... ooops I mean Alex Smith to a 10 year contract.


The same Trent Dilfer that's best season wasn't even close to what Alex has done this year and actually the 2 years prior as well?

Its moot anyway, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is meaningless. Almost all 49er fans expect Smith to be a bridge (useful one though. just ask the Saints :D ) to another QB. Hopefully Kaepernick is that guy.


Alex Smith is a game manager, isn't consistently clutch. What happen against the Saints couldn't be replicated against the Giants, a real defense.

I know huh. Its not like he already beat them like say, week 10 or anything. 91 QBR, real "game manager". You know that Smith twice as many passing yards and a QBR of 15 points higher this year than Dilfer had with his Baltimore SB run? I just though I'd bring that up since Dilfer was already brought up and that year he had is always the quintisential "game manager" nonsense that gets brought up.


Alex SMith is a damn good QB and I think he's gong to take another big step in his development next year under Harbaugh.

That said, please don't use made up stats to support an argument. QBR? Is that the contrived passer rating or the new ESPN made up QB stat?

It's a sad state of affairs football fans aren't confident or smart enough to defend positions with actual statistics as opposed to some nonsensical football for dummies simplified rating.

And you sure as hell don't need it to show that Alex Smith is a much, much better QB than Dilfer ever was. That difference will only become more and more stark as Smith continues to develop.

SackingMyths
02-08-2012, 08:19 PM
In my humble opinion, the SB should not be a factor in picking players for the HOF. It did NOT used to be! There have been many great players over the years that never played in the Super Bowl and will still make it to the HOF. Ex. - Tony Gonzalez. There are players who should not be in the HOF because of there body of work. Best ex. I can think of is Lynn Swann. His games in the SB got him into the hall. His regular season stats are very pedestrian. Stallworth's were better.


Its because a QB is generally viewed under a consensus as the most important position by far on the football team. Therefore if they're any good (as in, worthy of HOF status) they ought to get at least a SB birth and hopefully "W" in their long, HOF consideration career (NFL QBs, good ones anyway, last much longer than most).


Should any of us even be taking this guy serious with a sig like that?

Seriously buddy. Please grow up, and learn a thing or two about class. After all, it's A GAME

BK07071
02-08-2012, 09:55 PM
In an appearance with Burns and Gambo on Arizona Sports 620 in Phoenix, Warner made the case against Eli’s potential induction into the Hall of Fame.

“I fully disagree with that,” Warner said of talk that Eli will get in. “You know because I know we put a lot of weight on championships, and rightfully so. But championships are won as a team, and I’m fully convinced of that. You never see one guy — a great player, great quarterback — carry a team through the playoffs and into a Super Bowl and win a Super Bowl that way. I’ve never seen it. You know even in that game [Super Bowl XLVI], it’s 21-17. That’s the game. There wasn’t a quarterback just up and down the field carrying the team.

“Yeah, he made the plays down the stretch, no question about it,” added Warner, who spent the 2004 season with Eli in New York. “He’s had two great playoff runs, or his team has had two great playoff runs. But I also look at the rest of his career. I mean, he has an 82 . . . quarterback rating throughout his career. You know, he’s had five of his eight seasons where he has thrown 16 interceptions or more. His completion percentage on his career is 58 percent. To me, those aren’t Hall of Fame numbers and by that I mean every time you step on the field you’re a game changer, you’re a difference maker. And I don’t believe Eli Manning has been that guy until this year. I think this year is the first time in his career when he’s become that guy.”

Warner said that, if Eli performs like he did this year for five more seasons, then he’ll be worthy of inclusion among the league’s all-time greats. Without that, Warner thinks Eli should be kept out due to the fact that he has been “extremely inconsistent throughout his career.”

Warner is a pompous *** and very envious of Eli because Eli will make Warner look like garbage in the years to come. Eli has at least five more years to win a Super Bowl again and go down in Giants history as being the best quaterback the Giants ever had. Warner is obviously jealous of all the accolades bestowed upon Eli for his performance against Brady and it's burning Kurt up inside. He's a pompous idiot that thinks his crap is ice cream.

JDE123
02-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Considering a lot of the same pundits say Big Ben is a hall of famer because he's won 2 SBs. How come it doesn't work the same way with Eli? Big Ben wasn't even the reason the steelers won vs. Seattle.

Also, pretty bad timing for Kurt Warner, ur a random retired dude and the day of the parade you say this?


Sorry to pull something from the first page, but...

I don't think Eli is HOF material yet (he's got the potential to be), but the suggestion of Roethlisberger is an absolute joke. I'd love to hear the name of any so-called expert who threw out Big Ben's name. I really don't think people appreciate how exclusive a club the Hall is.

JDE123
02-08-2012, 10:14 PM
Maybe he's right. Here are some Hall of Fame numbers to compare with Eli, and to give Warner a little cred...
62-63-4 lifetime record
50.1% lifetime completion percentage
176 TD's and 220 INT's.
1 SB ring
Nope, Eli can't compare to Mr. Namath.
Perhaps if Eli had guaranteed a win in one of his 2 SB's he'd be more legit HOF material.
Just sayin'

Here's a hint: if you have to pull up stats from 40 years ago to support your argument, you're probably not making a very compelling case. I think we all understand that Namath got into the HOF for reasons not exclusive to his stats (during a era in which they were playing a quite different game, I might add).

If Namath's stats are the sole benchmark for all future inductees, we're going to have to make room for any QB who starts more than half a dozen seasons.

zimonami
02-09-2012, 12:13 AM
Maybe he's right. Here are some Hall of Fame numbers to compare with Eli, and to give Warner a little cred...
62-63-4 lifetime record
50.1% lifetime completion percentage
176 TD's and 220 INT's.
1 SB ring
Nope, Eli can't compare to Mr. Namath.
Perhaps if Eli had guaranteed a win in one of his 2 SB's he'd be more legit HOF material.
Just sayin'

Here's a hint: if you have to pull up stats from 40 years ago to support your argument, you're probably not making a very compelling case.* I think we all understand that Namath got into the HOF for reasons not exclusive to his stats (during a era in which they were playing a quite different game, I might add).

If Namath's stats are the sole benchmark for all future inductees, we're going to have to make room for any QB who starts more than half a dozen seasons.

You missed the whole tongue in cheek... and, I didn't say it was a case/argument for Eli... just that there are HOF players who can't be measured by stats... and, Warner has no case to belittle Eli after 2MVP's in SB's.
You don't have to tell me what kind of game they played then, especially on the infield dirt and in the swirling winds of Shea. Why, after all these pages, are you the only one who found it necessary to give me"... a hint.". Thanks... I'm 65 and watched virtually every game Namath played... as many here know, I was a Jet fanatic until '72-'73, and Joe was my man back then.
Anyone who knows FB knows the importance of Namath to the success of the merger.

JDE123
02-09-2012, 12:23 AM
Maybe he's right. Here are some Hall of Fame numbers to compare with Eli, and to give Warner a little cred...
62-63-4 lifetime record
50.1% lifetime completion percentage
176 TD's and 220 INT's.
1 SB ring
Nope, Eli can't compare to Mr. Namath.
Perhaps if Eli had guaranteed a win in one of his 2 SB's he'd be more legit HOF material.
Just sayin'

Here's a hint: if you have to pull up stats from 40 years ago to support your argument, you're probably not making a very compelling case. I think we all understand that Namath got into the HOF for reasons not exclusive to his stats (during a era in which they were playing a quite different game, I might add).

If Namath's stats are the sole benchmark for all future inductees, we're going to have to make room for any QB who starts more than half a dozen seasons.

You missed the whole tongue in cheek... and, I didn't say it was a case/argument for Eli... just that there are HOF players who can't be measured by stats... and, Warner has no case to belittle Eli after 2MVP's in SB's.
You don't have to tell me what kind of game they played then, especially on the infield dirt and in the swirling winds of Shea. Why, after all these pages, are you the only one who found it necessary to give me"... a hint.". Thanks... I'm 65 and watched virtually every game Namath played... as many here know, I was a Jet fanatic until '72-'73, and Joe was my man back then.
Anyone who knows FB knows the importance of Namath to the success of the merger.

Ahh... my sincere apologies.

Who cares about the HOF anyway...I like rings.

PRFan
02-09-2012, 12:39 AM
I don't think he sounded bitter, I think it was right on. If Eli retires today, he doesn't get into the HOF and that's just what he said. Give him a couple of years to build up stats and maybe (hopefully) he makes it.

zimonami
02-09-2012, 01:03 AM
I don't think he sounded bitter, I think it was right on. If Eli retires today, he doesn't get into the HOF and that's just what he said. Give him a couple of years to build up stats and maybe (hopefully) he makes it.
In the aftermath of our success and Eli's great season, Warner is one of the few who isn't canonizing Eli... so, it stands out. It's easy to say he's bitter after being replaced by the rookie, and I'm sure it stung his ego.
Bottom line... Eli needs to finish his career with more solid years to complete his HOF resume. He has a good chance. I don't think Ben is a shoo-in either with his 2 SB rings. But, like Eli, he'll earn his stripes with 3-4 more solid years.

JPP
02-09-2012, 01:24 AM
I don't think he sounded bitter, I think it was right on. If Eli retires today, he doesn't get into the HOF and that's just what he said. Give him a couple of years to build up stats and maybe (hopefully) he makes it.
In the aftermath of our success and Eli's great season, Warner is one of the few who isn't canonizing Eli... so, it stands out. It's easy to say he's bitter after being replaced by the rookie, and I'm sure it stung his ego.
Bottom line... Eli needs to finish his career with more solid years to complete his HOF resume. He has a good chance. I don't think Ben is a shoo-in either with his 2 SB rings. But, like Eli, he'll earn his stripes with 3-4 more solid years.

It seems like most of the so called analysts expect Eli to revert to the 1st few years of his career though. If he continues along at 4k yards and 30 td a season for like you said 4 more seasons then it is looking pretty good.

Moss#83
02-09-2012, 09:50 AM
Warner also believes he should be in the HOF. He then goes on to say Eli needs a few more great seasons and a couple more SB and then they can discuss if he should be in the HOF. So according to this clown:

1 SB with a loaded team and 2 SB losses is better than 4 SB wins and top 10 all time in yards etc.

This guy is a blabbering idiot.

WORLDCHAMPS
02-09-2012, 10:05 AM
Bitter cause Eli replaced him. Hey Kurt....stop Hating dude. Eli will get in...hes only getting started...i say two more rings

CantBlameShockeyNow
02-09-2012, 10:07 AM
Warner also believes he should be in the HOF. He then goes on to say Eli needs a few more great seasons and a couple more SB and then they can discuss if he should be in the HOF. So according to this clown:

1 SB with a loaded team and 2 SB losses is better than 4 SB wins and top 10 all time in yards etc.

This guy is a blabbering idiot.

How about:

1. The most yards passing in a SB game
2. The 2nd most passing yards in a SB game
3. The 3rd most passing yards in a SB game

Has the 2nd highest total in yards passing in SB history. More than Montana that played in 4. Only Brady has more SB passing yards and it took him 5 games to pass KW.

He left the field in his 2 losses with his team winning with under 3 minutes on the clock.

If either of those teams had any D...

Yeah, KW was a mediocre playoff QB.

The Rams and Cards have been real successful without him.

Moss#83
02-09-2012, 10:12 AM
Warner also believes he should be in the HOF. He then goes on to say Eli needs a few more great seasons and a couple more SB and then they can discuss if he should be in the HOF. So according to this clown:

1 SB with a loaded team and 2 SB losses is better than 4 SB wins and top 10 all time in yards etc.

This guy is a blabbering idiot.

How about:

1. The most yards passing in a SB game
2. The 2nd most passing yards in a SB game
3. The 3rd most passing yards in a SB game

Has the 2nd highest total in yards passing in SB history. More than Montana that played in 4. Only Brady has more SB passing yards and it took him 5 games to pass KW.

He left the field in his 2 losses with his team winning with under 3 minutes on the clock.

If either of those teams had any D...

Yeah, KW was a mediocre playoff QB.

The Rams and Cards have been real successful without him.1 for 3 in SB LMAO.

All those yards couldn't get him squat in the Pats and Steelers SB. Cannot forget he is also:

#1 longest pick 6 thrown in the SB.

KW is a clown who cannot make his receivers better. He needs a great o line to be somewhat successful. I saw a deer in headlights when he put on his Giants uniform. He is a bitter old man and jealous of Eli's success.

burier
02-09-2012, 10:18 AM
I find it funny that Warner is telling anyone who will listen about why Eli shouldn't be in the hall of fame as if this was some pressing issue.

Eli's only half way through his career.

I have no problem with debating his HOF credentials now but Warner seems to really be going out of his way.

All that said the two SB MVPs and the dramatic fashion in which the two SB MVPS were achieved makes Eli a lock even if retires this summer. Warner is kidding himself if he thinks otherwise.

And Warner said himself that if Eli continues to put up seasons like the one he just had then he's a lock leading me to believe that he has confused the hall of fame with the hall of stats.

CantBlameShockeyNow
02-09-2012, 10:22 AM
Warner also believes he should be in the HOF. He then goes on to say Eli needs a few more great seasons and a couple more SB and then they can discuss if he should be in the HOF. So according to this clown:

1 SB with a loaded team and 2 SB losses is better than 4 SB wins and top 10 all time in yards etc.

This guy is a blabbering idiot.

How about:

1. The most yards passing in a SB game
2. The 2nd most passing yards in a SB game
3. The 3rd most passing yards in a SB game

Has the 2nd highest total in yards passing in SB history. More than Montana that played in 4. Only Brady has more SB passing yards and it took him 5 games to pass KW.

He left the field in his 2 losses with his team winning with under 3 minutes on the clock.

If either of those teams had any D...

Yeah, KW was a mediocre playoff QB.

The Rams and Cards have been real successful without him.1 for 3 in SB LMAO.

All those yards couldn't get him squat in the Pats and Steelers SB. Cannot forget he is also:

#1 longest pick 6 thrown in the SB.

KW is a clown who cannot make his receivers better. He needs a great o line to be somewhat successful. I saw a deer in headlights when he put on his Giants uniform. He is a bitter old man and jealous of Eli's success.


Great points.

It clearly explains why the Rams and Cards have been so successful with out him.

"All those yards couldn't get him squat in the Pats and Steelers SB"

Yeah, having a D helps sometimes? Ask Tuck.

"KW is a clown who cannot make his receivers better"

Smartest post in history...absolutely brilliant.

speedman
02-09-2012, 10:25 AM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike & Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

ny06
02-09-2012, 10:33 AM
Why the bitterness? </P>


Kurt Warner goes home to this.</P>


http://aofg.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451c7bb69e201053700fc5d970c-800wi</P>


And Eli goes home to this</P>


http://i51.tinypic.com/6dzfyh.jpg</P>

CantBlameShockeyNow
02-09-2012, 10:36 AM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike & Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

Obviously.

Warner played 124 games.
Eli has played 121 games.

BigBlue1971
02-09-2012, 10:44 AM
Warner is jealous of Elis successinrecent years! he never thought of Eli as being tough and commanding the ship!</P>


he wantsEli to fail.</P>


this latest superbowl win just rages this guy! andthe rage iscoming out in different ways!</P>


i know its his opinion but he seems to go outta the way to berate Eli!</P>


</P>


</P>

CantBlameShockeyNow
02-09-2012, 10:54 AM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike & Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

Warner played 124 games in his career

Eli has played 121 so far

KW 32,344 yards, 208 TD,128 INTs comp% 65.5 rating of 93.7

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDs,125 INTs, comp% 58.4 rating of 82.1

JDE123
02-09-2012, 11:28 AM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike &amp; Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

Warner played 124 games in his career

Eli has played 121 so far

KW 32,344 yards, 208 TD,128 INTs comp% 65.5 rating of 93.7

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDs,125 INTs, comp% 58.4 rating of 82.1

C'mon, this is no place for stats, logic, or truth... :)

Warner was also a 4-time Pro Bowler and 2 time NFL MVP.

ShakeNBake
02-09-2012, 11:47 AM
I heard his interview on ESPN, why is this guy so bitter on Eli Manning?<font size="4"> GROW UP KURT!!!</font>


All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.

burier
02-09-2012, 01:28 PM
I heard his interview on ESPN, why is this guy so bitter on Eli Manning?<font size="4"> GROW UP KURT!!!</font>


All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.


The problem is that Eli was only drafted in 2004. He won a Superbowl in 2007 and has been very consistent ever since.

So that consistency argument is absolute BS. Eli has been drastically consistent over the past 4 years with the only exceptions being 2008 and 2010 where his INT numbers were drastically low and drastically high respectively.

Also warner should keep his face shut since he got alot of accolades he didn't deserve due to Marshal Faulk, Tory Holt and Isaac Bruce making him look better.

You wanna talk about about consistent? How bout consistently soft. Consistently missing games due to a floppy thumb.

Edit: Id also like to add that Kurt Warner was trash when he was here. A total downgrade from Kerry Collins and any success he had a QB was largely due to the skill players around him. Larry Fitz anyone. Warner has played with HOF caliber players his whole career.

bflo23
02-09-2012, 01:35 PM
All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.


He said that "Eli needed 5 more years like he did in 2011 season"..... Eli was a pro bowler this season so Warner is pretty much saying that Eli needs 5 more pro bowls to make the hall of fame. If he does that, Eli is getting to like #5 in all time TD passes.

Eli doesn't need to put up 5 more pro bowl years or throw 130 more TDs than Warner to reach the hall of fame.

burier
02-09-2012, 01:38 PM
All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.


He said that "Eli needed 5 more years like he did in 2011 season"..... Eli was a pro bowler this season so Warner is pretty much saying that Eli needs 5 more pro bowls to make the hall of fame. If he does that, Eli is getting to like #5 in all time TD passes.

Eli doesn't need to put up 5 more pro bowl years or throw 130 more TDs than Warner to reach the hall of fame.


Warner is drunk and overrated. The two MVPs don't mean **** comapred to two SB MVPS. Is this guy serious.

Plus no disrespect to Bradshaw and Jacobs but give Eli Marshall Faulk and I bet get would have a few league MVPs as well.

Is she Conan's wife?
02-09-2012, 01:43 PM
Warner said that, if Eli performs like he did this year for five more seasons, then he’ll be worthy of inclusion among the league’s all-time greats.

That's pretty much what I think.

bflo23
02-09-2012, 02:25 PM
Hey Kurt.... Do you want to talk about consistency? Lets look at your mid career.



2002...... 0-6 record, 1431 passing yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 67 QB rating

2003...... 0-1 record, 365 passing yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72 QB rating

2004...... 5-4 record, 2054 passing yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86 QB rating

2005...... 2-5 record, 2713 passing yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 85 QB rating

2006...... 1-4 record, 1377 passing yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs......



The list goes on and on. Is that the consistency of a hall of fame QB you expect?

ShakeNBake
02-09-2012, 04:01 PM
All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.


He said that "Eli needed 5 more years like he did in 2011 season"..... Eli was a pro bowler this season so Warner is pretty much saying that Eli needs 5 more pro bowls to make the hall of fame. If he does that, Eli is getting to like #5 in all time TD passes.

Eli doesn't need to put up 5 more pro bowl years or throw 130 more TDs than Warner to reach the hall of fame.


I don't remember him saying that, but if he did that's ridiculous. I just thought that saying Eli hasn't been consistent over his career was an accurate statement.

ShakeNBake
02-09-2012, 04:06 PM
I heard his interview on ESPN, why is this guy so bitter on Eli Manning?<font size="4"> GROW UP KURT!!!</font>


All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.


The problem is that Eli was only drafted in 2004. He won a Superbowl in 2007 and has been very consistent ever since.

So that consistency argument is absolute BS. Eli has been drastically consistent over the past 4 years with the only exceptions being 2008 and 2010 where his INT numbers were drastically low and drastically high respectively.

Also warner should keep his face shut since he got alot of accolades he didn't deserve due to Marshal Faulk, Tory Holt and Isaac Bruce making him look better.

You wanna talk about about consistent? How bout consistently soft. Consistently missing games due to a floppy thumb.

Edit: Id also like to add that Kurt Warner was trash when he was here. A total downgrade from Kerry Collins and any success he had a QB was largely due to the skill players around him. Larry Fitz anyone. Warner has played with HOF caliber players his whole career.

I disagree with you here, for example take a look at last year. I think Eli should be in the hall of fame discussion but I think some of you guys are over-analyzing what Kurt said. Saying that Collins was better than Warner is ridiculous, maybe you could argue that point if the guy could stay on the wagon.

FUUFNF
02-09-2012, 04:07 PM
Isn't Kurt Warner resuming his former career of bagging groceries now?

zimonami
02-09-2012, 05:27 PM
I heard his interview on ESPN, why is this guy so bitter on Eli Manning?<font size="4"> GROW UP KURT!!!</font>


All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.


The problem is that Eli was only drafted in 2004. He won a Superbowl in 2007 and has been very consistent ever since.

So that consistency argument is absolute BS. Eli has been drastically consistent over the past 4 years with the only exceptions being 2008 and 2010 where his INT numbers were drastically low and drastically high respectively.

Also warner should keep his face shut since he got alot of accolades he didn't deserve due to Marshal Faulk, Tory Holt and Isaac Bruce making him look better.

You wanna talk about about consistent? How bout consistently soft. Consistently missing games due to a floppy thumb.

Edit: Id also like to add that Kurt Warner was trash when he was here. A total downgrade from Kerry Collins and any success he had a QB was largely due to the skill players around him. Larry Fitz anyone. Warner has played with HOF caliber players his whole career.

I disagree with you here, for example take a look at last year. I think Eli should be in the hall of fame discussion but I think some of you guys are over-analyzing what Kurt said.* Saying that Collins was better than Warner is ridiculous, maybe you could argue that point if the guy could stay on the wagon.

When you discuss Collins, you need to remember that until his last 2-3 years he couldn't read a defense. In preseason 2001 (right after the Ravens SB fiasco) Fassell took away Collin's ability to call an audible because he was likely to audible into a worse play than what had already been called for him. Collins had all the tools, but not the smarts.

appletree943
02-09-2012, 05:54 PM
Considering a lot of the same pundits say Big Ben is a hall of famer because he's won 2 SBs. How come it doesn't work the same way with Eli? Big Ben wasn't even the reason the steelers won vs. Seattle.

Also, pretty bad timing for Kurt Warner, ur a random retired dude and the day of the parade you say this?
stop making up stuff to support your argument

who has ever said that

CantBlameShockeyNow
02-09-2012, 08:55 PM
Warner is not a shoe in for the HOF either.

Nor should he be.

He's the ultimate system QB, one who was absolutely awful when asked to play in a system not designed around him.

That's exactly the type of QB he states should not be in the HOF. Tough to argue with the guy when he's the textbook example of that of which he speaks.

The Rams really had foresight to build the Rams around a backup QB that had played in one NFL game before Trent Green went down in the pre-season in 1999.

giantsfan420
02-09-2012, 08:59 PM
Warner is not a shoe in for the HOF either.

Nor should he be.

He's the ultimate system QB, one who was absolutely awful when asked to play in a system not designed around him.

That's exactly the type of QB he states should not be in the HOF. Tough to argue with the guy when he's the textbook example of that of which he speaks.

The Rams really had foresight to build the Rams around a backup QB that had played in one NFL game before Trent Green went down in the pre-season in 1999.

oh sweet i hadnt seen u around in 6 weeks or so i wanted to ask you, how do you feel about people like mike lombardi and tons of other analysts saying eli is a lock for the hall of fame? im not asking you if he should make the hall of fame, im asking you how you feel that other respected football guys say eli is a lock to make it? how do you feel now that eli won the sb mvp? not asking u if he should or shouldnt have, im asking you how you felt when eli lifted the lombardi and was announced mvp?

how do you feel about the fact eli is one of 5 qb's all time to win 2 sb mvps? the other 4 are hof (brady not yet)

i only ask bc almost any post you'd make would be a "eli lost us the game with that int" or some other ridic bs, just wondering how life is in ur world right now?

giantsfan420
02-09-2012, 09:01 PM
don't lie, a part of you died that day didn't it...man you musta been on suicide watch or something with how badly you hate eli...big part of you died that sunday huh...you got a big hole in your soul now don't ya

CantBlameShockeyNow
02-09-2012, 09:15 PM
Warner is not a shoe in for the HOF either.

Nor should he be.

He's the ultimate system QB, one who was absolutely awful when asked to play in a system not designed around him.

That's exactly the type of QB he states should not be in the HOF. Tough to argue with the guy when he's the textbook example of that of which he speaks.

The Rams really had foresight to build the Rams around a backup QB that had played in one NFL game before Trent Green went down in the pre-season in 1999.

oh sweet i hadnt seen u around in 6 weeks or so i wanted to ask you, how do you feel about people like mike lombardi and tons of other analysts saying eli is a lock for the hall of fame? im not asking you if he should make the hall of fame, im asking you how you feel that other respected football guys say eli is a lock to make it? how do you feel now that eli won the sb mvp? not asking u if he should or shouldnt have, im asking you how you felt when eli lifted the lombardi and was announced mvp?

how do you feel about the fact eli is one of 5 qb's all time to win 2 sb mvps? the other 4 are hof (brady not yet)

i only ask bc almost any post you'd make would be a "eli lost us the game with that int" or some other ridic bs, just wondering how life is in ur world right now?

Why would I care about the HOF?. It's not like I spend 3 hours watching it every Sunday...the only thing that irks me about the HOF is that OJ is in it.

Sarcasman
02-10-2012, 09:53 AM
Warner is not a shoe in for the HOF either.

Nor should he be.

He's the ultimate system QB, one who was absolutely awful when asked to play in a system not designed around him.

That's exactly the type of QB he states should not be in the HOF. Tough to argue with the guy when he's the textbook example of that of which he speaks.

The Rams really had foresight to build the Rams around a backup QB that had played in one NFL game before Trent Green went down in the pre-season in 1999.


Yeah.

Or that the system in place for Trent Green already and Warner stepped into it.

Nothing wrong with that by the way.

allentown PA
02-10-2012, 07:55 PM
Why the bitterness? </P>


Kurt Warner goes home to this.</P>


http://aofg.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451c7bb69e201053700fc5d970c-800wi</P>


And Eli goes home to this</P>


http://i51.tinypic.com/6dzfyh.jpg</P>

lol..and isnt that all that matters?

JDE123
02-10-2012, 08:11 PM
All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.


He said that "Eli needed 5 more years like he did in 2011 season"..... Eli was a pro bowler this season so Warner is pretty much saying that Eli needs 5 more pro bowls to make the hall of fame. If he does that, Eli is getting to like #5 in all time TD passes.

Eli doesn't need to put up 5 more pro bowl years or throw 130 more TDs than Warner to reach the hall of fame.


Warner is drunk and overrated. The two MVPs don't mean **** comapred to two SB MVPS. Is this guy serious.

Plus no disrespect to Bradshaw and Jacobs but give Eli Marshall Faulk and I bet get would have a few league MVPs as well.
If Marshall Faulk were in the Giants' backfield then he would get all of the credit for their success - I think that would make it harder, not easier, on Eli to make a case for MVP.

burier
02-13-2012, 11:44 AM
I heard his interview on ESPN, why is this guy so bitter on Eli Manning?<font size="4"> GROW UP KURT!!!</font>


All he said was that if Eli was done today he wouldn't be a HOF because he has been inconsistent over his career which is true. The part that most people are leaving out is when Kurt said that if Eli continues to play like he did this year throughout the rest of his career then he WILL make it to the HOF.


The problem is that Eli was only drafted in 2004. He won a Superbowl in 2007 and has been very consistent ever since.

So that consistency argument is absolute BS. Eli has been drastically consistent over the past 4 years with the only exceptions being 2008 and 2010 where his INT numbers were drastically low and drastically high respectively.

Also warner should keep his face shut since he got alot of accolades he didn't deserve due to Marshal Faulk, Tory Holt and Isaac Bruce making him look better.

You wanna talk about about consistent? How bout consistently soft. Consistently missing games due to a floppy thumb.

Edit: Id also like to add that Kurt Warner was trash when he was here. A total downgrade from Kerry Collins and any success he had a QB was largely due to the skill players around him. Larry Fitz anyone. Warner has played with HOF caliber players his whole career.

I disagree with you here, for example take a look at last year. I think Eli should be in the hall of fame discussion but I think some of you guys are over-analyzing what Kurt said.* Saying that Collins was better than Warner is ridiculous, maybe you could argue that point if the guy could stay on the wagon.


Remember that we run the most complicated passing game in the NFL.

Now consider the revolving door we had at WR in '10.

And then consider how Eli put up his second highest yards total in '10 (19 yards off his career high posted in '09)

And then consider how Eli put up a career high in TD passes in '10.

And then consider how Eli put up a career high in completion percentage '10

And then consider your comment about Eli's play in 2010

Sarcasman
02-13-2012, 09:38 PM
Warner also believes he should be in the HOF. He then goes on to say Eli needs a few more great seasons and a couple more SB and then they can discuss if he should be in the HOF. So according to this clown:

1 SB with a loaded team and 2 SB losses is better than 4 SB wins and top 10 all time in yards etc.

This guy is a blabbering idiot.

How about:

1. The most yards passing in a SB game
2. The 2nd most passing yards in a SB game
3. The 3rd most passing yards in a SB game

Has the 2nd highest total in yards passing in SB history. More than Montana that played in 4. Only Brady has more SB passing yards and it took him 5 games to pass KW.

If either of those teams had any D...



I heard somewhere that to be truly great and HOF worthy a s a QB you have to be able to carry your team on your back by yourself.

Sarcasman
02-13-2012, 09:41 PM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike & Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

Warner played 124 games in his career

Eli has played 121 so far

KW 32,344 yards, 208 TD,128 INTs comp% 65.5 rating of 93.7

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDs,125 INTs, comp% 58.4 rating of 82.1


Passer rating = a made up statistic invented to assist those who don't understand football act as though they understand football.

JDE123
02-14-2012, 01:23 AM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike &amp; Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

Warner played 124 games in his career

Eli has played 121 so far

KW 32,344 yards, 208 TD,128 INTs comp% 65.5 rating of 93.7

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDs,125 INTs, comp% 58.4 rating of 82.1


Passer rating = a made up statistic invented to assist those who don't understand football act as though they understand football.
A made up statistic - as opposed to all of the organic football statistics found in nature?

Passer rating is a bit contrived, but it's not like the best QBs don't generally have the best ratings and vice versa. No single statistical category tells the whole story (and before anyone says it, no - wins does not tell the whole story, unless you think Trent Dilfer's SB win makes him better than Dan Marino).

giantsfan420
02-14-2012, 01:33 AM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike & Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

Warner played 124 games in his career

Eli has played 121 so far

KW 32,344 yards, 208 TD,128 INTs comp% 65.5 rating of 93.7

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDs,125 INTs, comp% 58.4 rating of 82.1


Passer rating = a made up statistic invented to assist those who don't understand football act as though they understand football.
A made up statistic - as opposed to all of the organic football statistics found in nature?

Passer rating is a bit contrived, but it's not like the best QBs don't generally have the best ratings and vice versa.* No single statistical category tells the whole story (and before anyone says it, no - wins does not tell the whole story, unless you think Trent Dilfer's SB win makes him better than Dan Marino).


but warner had been playing qb in the CFL i believe, and was like 30 and very mature and ready when he began his nfl journey. eli had to work for 4 yrs to get to this level he's at now.

i'd like to see this past 4 yrs and the next 4 yrs of eli and then compare stats to warner. warner was just older, mature, and played pro ball for a while before becoming a ram.

he was also a backup for a while too which was a luxury eli didnt have

zimonami
02-14-2012, 02:23 PM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike & Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

Warner played 124 games in his career

Eli has played 121 so far

KW 32,344 yards, 208 TD,128 INTs comp% 65.5 rating of 93.7

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDs,125 INTs, comp% 58.4 rating of 82.1


Passer rating = a made up statistic invented to assist those who don't understand football act as though they understand football.
A made up statistic - as opposed to all of the organic football statistics found in nature?

Passer rating is a bit contrived, but it's not like the best QBs don't generally have the best ratings and vice versa.* No single statistical category tells the whole story (and before anyone says it, no - wins does not tell the whole story, unless you think Trent Dilfer's SB win makes him better than Dan Marino).


but warner had been playing qb in the CFL i believe, and was like 30 and very mature and ready when he began his nfl journey. eli had to work for 4 yrs to get to this level he's at now.

i'd like to see this past 4 yrs and the next 4 yrs of eli and then compare stats to warner. warner was just older, mature, and played pro ball for a while before becoming a ram.

he was also a backup for a while too which was a luxury eli didnt have
Yes, Eli did enjoy the luxury of being a backup QB... for 4 games... and, lol, he was backup to Mr. Warner, who was horrible in our system. I will never forget when Kurt was scrambling towards the goal line and chicken kneeled at the 1 yard line when he could have scored with a little head first effort... and we didn't end up getting a TD.

BeatYale
02-14-2012, 03:13 PM
Considering a lot of the same pundits say Big Ben is a hall of famer because he's won 2 SBs.* How come it doesn't work the same way with Eli?* Big Ben wasn't even the reason the steelers won vs. Seattle.

Also, pretty bad timing for Kurt Warner, ur a random retired dude and the day of the parade you say this?


No kidding. Big Ben has the worst, or one of the worst, QB ratings in a Super Bowl game.

Who cares what Kurt says. The guy had 3 good seasons with the Rams early in his career and then it went downhill, even in Arizona it was looking bad until those final 2 seasons.

The QB rating formula is wacky. Look at Warner for example, he's got an all time rating of 93 but he was notorious for dinking and dunking and not throwing the ball away - instead he'd hang on to the ball too long taking sacks. Hence why he had so many concussions. Not everyone plays the game that way, some QB's don't give a crap about their QB rating and they just play the position as they are coached to.

nygfanmaybe
02-14-2012, 03:32 PM
I think passer rating involves the actual skill of the QB and the skill of the 10 other players he is surrounded by and the environment in which they play each game. The caliber of defense that they play against would be a factor, too.

My post doesn't really have anything to do with Eli other than the fact that he is a QB that plays on an NFL team.

I would think that everyone would agree to this but if you think I am wrong, tell me why.

JDE123
02-14-2012, 05:21 PM
I think passer rating involves the actual skill of the QB and the skill of the 10 other players he is surrounded by and the environment in which they play each game. The caliber of defense that they play against would be a factor, too.

My post doesn't really have anything to do with Eli other than the fact that he is a QB that plays on an NFL team.

I would think that everyone would agree to this but if you think I am wrong, tell me why.
It's all a factor, but I don't see how QB rating could be any more circumstantial than the stats used to formulate it (attempts, completions, yards, TDs, INTs).

Sarcasman
02-18-2012, 02:48 PM
Does Warner think he is a HOF candidate? If yes his stats should be compared to Eli's before he opens his mouth. I heard yesterday on Mike & Mike (Golic) that Eli's stats in his 8 years were comparable to Warner over his whole career.

Warner played 124 games in his career

Eli has played 121 so far

KW 32,344 yards, 208 TD,128 INTs comp% 65.5 rating of 93.7

Eli 27,579 yards 185 TDs,125 INTs, comp% 58.4 rating of 82.1


Passer rating = a made up statistic invented to assist those who don't understand football act as though they understand football.
A made up statistic - as opposed to all of the organic football statistics found in nature?

Passer rating is a bit contrived, but it's not like the best QBs don't generally have the best ratings and vice versa.* No single statistical category tells the whole story (and before anyone says it, no - wins does not tell the whole story, unless you think Trent Dilfer's SB win makes him better than Dan Marino).


It's a made up stats meaning it's a compilation of multiple things signifying nothing.

Yes, it is sometimes directionally correct as of course it would need to be, but that - in and of itself - is hardly meaningful.

It's correct that no one stat captures QB play. The passer rating is a perfect proof of that.

Hence my statement that it's useless.

If you want to talk about QB play talk about the components of the passer rating in context to the other items that measure a good QB. There's no reason to bundle all those metrics into one meaningless metric called passer rating. Unless you're a casual fan or talking head who needs that kind of thing.

Sarcasman
02-18-2012, 02:52 PM
I think passer rating involves the actual skill of the QB and the skill of the 10 other players he is surrounded by and the environment in which they play each game. The caliber of defense that they play against would be a factor, too.

My post doesn't really have anything to do with Eli other than the fact that he is a QB that plays on an NFL team.

I would think that everyone would agree to this but if you think I am wrong, tell me why.
It's all a factor, but I don't see how QB rating could be any more circumstantial than the stats used to formulate it (attempts, completions, yards, TDs, INTs).


Who decides the ratio of each metric and the weighting thereof? If it was a simple compilation of those numbers, it would be a different and perhaps actually meaningful statistic.

Voldamort
02-18-2012, 02:52 PM
have you seen his wife?

JDE123
02-18-2012, 04:11 PM
It's a made up stats meaning it's a compilation of multiple things
signifying nothing.

Yes, it is sometimes directionally correct as of course it would need to
be, but that - in and of itself - is hardly meaningful.

It's correct that no one stat captures QB play. The passer rating is a
perfect proof of that.

Hence my statement that it's useless.

If you want to talk about QB play talk about the components of the
passer rating in context to the other items that measure a good QB.
There's no reason to bundle all those metrics into one meaningless
metric called passer rating. Unless you're a casual fan or talking head
who needs that kind of thing.

I hear what you're saying - QB rating is actually a metric, yet it gets listed with and treated like a statistic.

Stats are good, provided there isn't too much data to rationalize and the person analyzing it knows what he's doing. Since I think people are pretty much idiots, I'm ok with QB rating as part of the discussion.

Robert21156
02-18-2012, 09:04 PM
As everyone knows, but fails to consider, Warner compiled a lot of his QB rating in a domed environment. Wouldn't that be "helpful" to play at least half your games in a dome? Eli has played 2 SuperBowls in a dome and thrown one pick - and it was a throw down near the ground that Steve Smith boosted into the air to be intercepted. So I'd say the dome thing is very "circumstantial" and definitely enhances a QB rating.

Voldamort
02-18-2012, 09:16 PM
Kurt in NY couldn't do anything with a pss poor o line. He took sacks left and right. We saw Eli and how he plays with a poor pass protection o line his entire career. 2 SB.

Even in Eli's rookie year I saw glimpses of why the decision to remove Kurt as the QB was the correct one. ENOUGH SAID KURT WARNER CAN ONLY PLAY INSIDE ARENA FOOTBALL BOY!

Voldamort
02-18-2012, 09:32 PM
You going to tell us what he said? WILL Kurt make the hall?

Sarcasman
02-23-2012, 09:35 AM
It's a made up stats meaning it's a compilation of multiple things
signifying nothing.

Yes, it is sometimes directionally correct as of course it would need to
be, but that - in and of itself - is hardly meaningful.

It's correct that no one stat captures QB play. The passer rating is a
perfect proof of that.

Hence my statement that it's useless.

If you want to talk about QB play talk about the components of the
passer rating in context to the other items that measure a good QB.
There's no reason to bundle all those metrics into one meaningless
metric called passer rating. Unless you're a casual fan or talking head
who needs that kind of thing.

I hear what you're saying - QB rating is actually a metric, yet it gets listed with and treated like a statistic.

Stats are good, provided there isn't too much data to rationalize and the person analyzing it knows what he's doing.* Since I think people are pretty much idiots, I'm ok with QB rating as part of the discussion.


I get this, it makes sense to me.

The difference for me is that almost all folks who need passer rating to discuss QB play by definition aren't smart enough to discuss the meaningful metrics of QB play.

We"re probably saying the same thing just from different points of view.