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View Full Version : This year we had the 'Elite" hoopla....already that has shifted to the "HOF" hoopl***



rebelfan1966
02-08-2012, 11:53 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

egyptian420
02-08-2012, 11:56 PM
+1

JJC7301
02-09-2012, 12:03 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.
It's actually a move in the right direction, for once. If his detractors are starting to argue against HOF, it sounds that they are at least accepting that he's ELIte.

They've always moved the goal post on Eli, so I'm glad that we're moving it back on them.

Maybe, just maybe, one day they'll have to argue that he's not the very best QB of all time, but will accept the HOF argument.

Roosevelt
02-09-2012, 12:04 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.

rebelfan1966
02-09-2012, 12:09 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton.* Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says.* The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday.* That's all that really matters.*


A few more????? that would mean he has to have 5 Rings...... lol

TrueBlue10
02-09-2012, 01:03 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

You know, I just started picking up on that today. It's like Eli can never just be "acceptable" for whatever he is. It has to be this never ending "moving goalpost" ... it's like 2 days after the SB and the media is already looking for whatever doors they can leave locked to Eli.

It's like, why the EFF would they need to make such a big deal about this HOF stuff now if not to just draw attention to one more obstacle Eli couldn't possibly have cleared by now?

~

Also, anyone who was paying any attention to last year's 25 picks would have taken note of the unusual amount that tipped off of receivers hands. But no, Eli never gets context in his favor. If it's against him? Like needing a good performance from a defense to win SBs? Then there is context to spare. But tipped passes? Poor pass protection? No. It was just Eli being dumb ol' Eli, right?

Geez.... some of these folks are just unreachable.

ELIteManning
02-09-2012, 01:06 AM
The good news for us is that none of the "hoopla" bothers Eli. In fact it probably inspires him to continue to prove any doubters wrong.

Roosevelt
02-09-2012, 01:08 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.


A few more????? that would mean he has to have 5 Rings...... lol


A few more GREAT SEASONS. Not a few more Super Bowls.

Don't be stupid you moron. Seriously.[:P][;)]

giantsfan420
02-09-2012, 01:18 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

You know, I just started picking up on that today.* It's like Eli can never just be "acceptable" for whatever he is.* It has to be this never ending "moving goalpost" ... it's like 2 days after the SB and the media is already looking for whatever doors they can leave locked to Eli.

It's like, why the EFF would they need to make such a big deal about this HOF stuff now if not to just draw attention to one more obstacle Eli couldn't possibly have cleared by now?

~

Also, anyone who was paying any attention to last year's 25 picks would have taken note of the unusual amount that tipped off of receivers hands.* But no, Eli never gets context in his favor.* If it's against him? Like needing a good performance from a defense to win SBs?* Then there is context to spare.* But tipped passes? Poor pass protection? No. It was just Eli being dumb ol' Eli, right?

Geez.... some of these folks are just unreachable.


excellent post.

but i agree with some one else from this thread in that the always moving back goal posts is good for eli. it means people will never settle for the level of play he's at, even when it is HOF level. it'll keep him hungry and keep giving him goals to reach.

i found it interesting tho that now peyton is getting the so called "eli" treatment. now HE is the one getting asked "are you jealous of the SB ringS?" "Will u be able to win more than Eli?" etc etc

ELIteManning
02-09-2012, 01:26 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

You know, I just started picking up on that today.* It's like Eli can never just be "acceptable" for whatever he is.* It has to be this never ending "moving goalpost" ... it's like 2 days after the SB and the media is already looking for whatever doors they can leave locked to Eli.

It's like, why the EFF would they need to make such a big deal about this HOF stuff now if not to just draw attention to one more obstacle Eli couldn't possibly have cleared by now?

~

Also, anyone who was paying any attention to last year's 25 picks would have taken note of the unusual amount that tipped off of receivers hands.* But no, Eli never gets context in his favor.* If it's against him? Like needing a good performance from a defense to win SBs?* Then there is context to spare.* But tipped passes? Poor pass protection? No. It was just Eli being dumb ol' Eli, right?

Geez.... some of these folks are just unreachable.


excellent post.

but i agree with some one else from this thread in that the always moving back goal posts is good for eli. it means people will never settle for the level of play he's at, even when it is HOF level. it'll keep him hungry and keep giving him goals to reach.

i found it interesting tho that now peyton is getting the so called "eli" treatment. now HE is the one getting asked "are you jealous of the SB ringS?" "Will u be able to win more than Eli?" etc etc

The media has a hard time accepting that they are "happy" for each other's success. They think their has to be an internal rivalry between the two and they couldn't be more wrong. I have very similar relationship with my brother and we greatly enjoy each others success. Peyton has been Eli's biggest supporter...always helping him or giving him tips (As Eli has reported many times). I thought it was really cool of Peyton to stay away from the cameras during the superbowl to just so the focus was not on him after so much of it was leading up to the game. However, I did miss getting to see his reactions during the game and all. It was pretty cool to see that from the 07-08 Superbowl.

calzonesays
02-09-2012, 01:28 AM
why is Joe Namath in the HOF? Cuz of his loud mouth and a SB guarantee? He threw more INTs than TDs and had a mediocre QB rating/Comp %

ajd121
02-09-2012, 01:35 AM
First it was can Eli make it as a NFL QB?,
Then it was Ok he can make it as QB but can he be good?
Ok he can be good but can he be great?
Ok he is great but is he elite?
Ok he is Elite but is he a HOFer?

I hope this keeps up and in a year or two,
Ok is he is a HOFer but is he legendary ?

Few more years

Ok he is legendary but is he the greatest to ever play?

bflo23
02-09-2012, 01:40 AM
First it was can Eli make it as a NFL QB?,
Then it was Ok he can make it as QB but can he be good?
Ok he can be good but can he be great?
Ok he is great but is he elite?
Ok he is Elite but is he a HOFer?

I hope this keeps up and in a year or two,
Ok is he is a HOFer but is he legendary ?

Few more years

Ok he is legendary but is he the greatest to ever play?


To some people... If Eli loses the opening season game, Eli's status will drop from ELITE to all the way back down "Is Eli even good?".

To some "analysts" like Skip Bayless..... No matter what Eli does, he will always stink. He can win 5 Super Bowls and Skip will question whether Eli is a leader.

stormblue
02-09-2012, 03:55 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.
It's actually a move in the right direction, for once. If his detractors are starting to argue against HOF, it sounds that they are at least accepting that he's ELIte.

They've always moved the goal post on Eli, so I'm glad that we're moving it back on them.

Maybe, just maybe, one day they'll have to argue that he's not the very best QB of all time, but will accept the HOF argument.

this ^^

foosball
02-09-2012, 03:59 AM
If his last name were not Manning these guys would worship him. The bar for him is set soooo high.

miked1958
02-09-2012, 04:34 AM
Let em keep bringing the doubt each year with something new Eli cant do. He just loves to keep proving them wrong

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE
02-09-2012, 04:46 AM
Eli will never get his credit! In 07 the debate was is he good when most people thought he was average. He wins the SB and people say "yeah he is good but he isn't elite" then he gets another championship and they go "yeah he is elite but he isn't a HOFer" its BS.

Bottomline is he has done something the great Tom Brady hasn't which is bring his team down the field for a game winning TD! He did it twice!

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE
02-09-2012, 04:49 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton.* Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says.* The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday.* That's all that really matters.*

Of course he isn't a HOFer! We know that but who cares his career isn't even half way done yet!

However I wanna say for the record if Eli ain't a HOFer Kurt Warner most certainly isnt!

chizz
02-09-2012, 11:07 AM
One thing for sure he is one of the best giant Qb's ever.

chizz
02-09-2012, 11:07 AM
One thing for sure he is one of the best giant Qb's ever.

speedman
02-09-2012, 11:19 AM
He is THE best Giant QB ever.

burier
02-09-2012, 11:24 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

But don't tell me you didn't see this comming.

Eli isn't as good as Rivers.

Eli Wins SB MVP.

Eli Is not an Elite QB.

Eli Wins SB MVP

Eli is not a HOF....

Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear.

Eli is not the best QB ever.

Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way.

When has Eli not answered the bell?

As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.

GameTime
02-09-2012, 11:32 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for <FONT color=#000080 size=6>my</FONT> Quarterback.</P>


so that WAS you standing next to John Mara and Steve Tisch the other day....LOL</P>

repeatchamps
02-09-2012, 11:37 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for <FONT color=#000080 size=6>my</FONT> Quarterback.</P>


so that WAS you standing next to John Mara and Steve Tisch the other day....LOL</P>


</P>


Lol, queue the Terrell Owens crying "that's my QB" photo.</P>


http://thewarrenreport.com/wp-content/uploads/terrell-owens-crying.jpg</P>

G-Man67
02-09-2012, 12:11 PM
next it will be that he is not a 1st ballot HOFer



oh and god forbid he ever gets a stinger ... everyone will be see his neck is like Peytons he done .... draft the next Jesse Palmer :)



fortunately while it bothers us ... it either is just noise to him that he tunes out or he uses it as motivation ... i think the Elite thing became motivational for him at times during the season

Roosevelt
02-09-2012, 01:27 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.

Of course he isn't a HOFer! We know that but who cares his career isn't even half way done yet!

However I wanna say for the record if Eli ain't a HOFer Kurt Warner most certainly isnt!


Kurt Warner is a 2X NFL Most Valuable Player. If Eli could win that he would have to be a lock. Not to say that he wont get in without it though.

gumby742
02-09-2012, 01:53 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans. Being great isn't good enough. It's always something. If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>

burier
02-09-2012, 02:00 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>

I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so?

I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.

bflo23
02-09-2012, 02:01 PM
Hey gumby.

Why did you change your classic signature after the giants won the super bowl? Stand by your signature.

"Eli realists criticize. Eli homers turn it into hate.
SAVE GIGGLES!!!!!
NFL.com top 100 - NFL players are all Eli "haters" ... lol"

gumby742
02-09-2012, 02:40 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans. Being great isn't good enough. It's always something. If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe. Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is? And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater. Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with. It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme. </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer. He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know. But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>

Roosevelt
02-09-2012, 02:42 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</p>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans. Being great isn't good enough. It's always something. If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</p>

I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so?

I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.

Funny you see it that way. And since you think of me as a hater here's my take.

It's an honor to be included in HOF discussion. The HOF is for the greatest players of all time.

So the question is, if Eli's career ended today do you consider him to be one of the greatest of all time?

I think if Eli continues to play the way he did this year for a few more years then he is worthy of it. He's always displayed the ability to make big plays with the game on the line. This year he became an all-around great QB all season long.

Superbowl
02-09-2012, 02:54 PM
I didn' t care before and I don't care what those talking heads say. Now that he huddled over elite, next thing is HOF and GOAT after that. As long as Eli keep prove everybody wrong I am going to sit back and enjoy the ride.

rebelfan1966
02-09-2012, 03:54 PM
One great trait Eli has is his ability to improve every season. A couple of seasons ago, there were quite a few people on this board who proclaimed Eli had reached his penacle. What we saw was what we were going to get..... The best we could expect out of Eli was for him to be a good game manager and not loose the game. </P>

gumby742
02-09-2012, 04:01 PM
Hey gumby.

Why did you change your classic signature after the giants won the super bowl? Stand by your signature.

"Eli realists criticize. Eli homers turn it into hate.
SAVE GIGGLES!!!!!
NFL.com top 100 - NFL players are all Eli "haters" ... lol"
</P>


Since I'm bored, I'll respond to you. You're not a very good troll.</P>


I already told you that my Sig has nothing to do with Eli and play, but everything to do with his fans like you. And I changed it because people who i do respect started asking questions about my sig as well. </P>

bflo23
02-09-2012, 04:13 PM
"Eli realists criticize. Eli homers turn it into hate.
SAVE GIGGLES!!!!!
NFL.com top 100 - NFL players are all Eli "haters" ... lol"

So that signature had nothing to do with Eli?

You should stand by your signature and posts.... Don't simply change it immediately after Giants win and Eli wins his 2nd Super Bowl MVP award. I saw like a thousand posters rip on your signature and you refused to change your sig but you suddenly decided to change it after the super bowl because a "respected" poster questioned your sig AFTER THE SUPER BOWL. We aren't buying it.

Just a coincidence that you change your eli bashing sig immediately after the super bowl.

burier
02-09-2012, 04:15 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe.* Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is?* And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater.* Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with.* It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme.* </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer.* He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know.* But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>

maybe he's not as great as I think he is???

How great do I think he is? Do you even know?

You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term.

We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old.

I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions.

We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.

GCGiant
02-09-2012, 04:29 PM
I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions.

Me too
.

burier
02-09-2012, 04:38 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</p>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</p>

I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so?

I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.

Funny you see it that way.* And since you think of me as a hater here's my take.

It's an honor to be included in HOF discussion.* The HOF is for the greatest players of all time.

So the question is, if Eli's career ended today do you consider him to be one of the greatest of all time?

I think if Eli continues to play the way he did this year for a few more years then he is worthy of it.* He's always displayed the ability to make big plays with the game on the line.* This year he became an all-around great QB all season long.




I called Gumby a hater because he seems to like to label other posters but doesn't like it when he gets labeled.

When I read your posts I see someone suffering from the "I refuse to admit that I don't know what I'm talking about" syndrome.

That's why you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed into a great Quarterback despite not even being able to come up with an inch of factual basis for that claim.

You can't stick to your guns and keep talking about how mediocre Eli is since the "Majority" have come around. You'd seem like a crazy Zealot if you did that.

But you can't admit that you were wrong either so you pretend Eli is somehow different this year than years past that way you can be right then AND right now despite having completely opposite opinions and contradicting yourself.


I get the impression from you that its more about being bullheaded than outright hatred of Eli.

As for your question. I believe the Hall Of Fame (Not hall of stats) is for players who achieve unparalleled greatness.

Eli's Two MVPs are unmatched if you look at the circumstances under which those accolades were achieved.

Not to mention the remifications Eli's Giants have had on other greats legacy's. Bill Belichick is going to go down as a coach who couldn't win anything without LT or illegal video tapes.

Tom Brady will go down as a player who couldn't win anything without Vinietieri A KICKER and a player who couldn't beat Eli Manning...Peytons little brother. This stuff actualyl belongs in the hall of infamy.

So yes Eli is already a lock. Anything he does from here on out is just moving him up the ladder of all time greats.

gumby742
02-09-2012, 04:58 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans. Being great isn't good enough. It's always something. If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe. Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is? And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater. Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with. It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme. </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer. He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know. But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>


maybe he's not as great as I think he is??? How great do I think he is? Do you even know? You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term. We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old. I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions. We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.</P>


Heh. You think I changed my stance on the top 100 list because you don't understand the concept of devil's advocate. My stance on that list was very simple. I thought the list was rubbish, but I could understand how Eli might have been left off that list, at the time.</P>


What nonsense position? The positions that we discuss are predicated on threads that YOU Eli fanatics create. If you go back in time, there were far more Eli thread created by pro Eli folk, then Eli threads that were created by trolls.</P>


It's funny how you're very quick to dismiss a position as nonsense when it doesn't coincide with yours. Fact is when the majority of the NFL football world was rediculing Eli for saying he's "Elite", you were saying everyone elses opinion was nonsense, but yours. You however, were the the overwhelming minority. Did you every think twice - to see things on the other side of the coin? Maybe, you might have been wrong?</P>


</P>

gumby742
02-09-2012, 05:00 PM
"Eli realists criticize. Eli homers turn it into hate.
SAVE GIGGLES!!!!!
NFL.com top 100 - NFL players are all Eli "haters" ... lol"

So that signature had nothing to do with Eli?

You should stand by your signature and posts.... Don't simply change it immediately after Giants win and Eli wins his 2nd Super Bowl MVP award. I saw like a thousand posters rip on your signature and you refused to change your sig but you suddenly decided to change it after the super bowl because a "respected" poster questioned your sig AFTER THE SUPER BOWL. We aren't buying it.

Just a coincidence that you change your eli bashing sig immediately after the super bowl.

</P>


I already told you why I changed it. And yes, if you were smart, you'd realize that my sig had nothing to do with Eli, but HIS FANS.</P>

burier
02-09-2012, 05:12 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe.* Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is?* And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater.* Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with.* It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme.* </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer.* He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know.* But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>


maybe he's not as great as I think he is??? How great do I think he is? Do you even know? You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term. We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old. I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions. We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.</P>


Heh.* You think I changed my stance on the top 100 list because you don't understand the concept of devil's advocate.* My stance on that list was very simple.* I thought the list was rubbish, but I could understand how Eli might have been left off that list, at the time.</P>


What nonsense position?* The positions that we discuss are predicated on threads that YOU Eli fanatics create.* If you go back in time, there were far more Eli thread created by pro Eli folk, then Eli threads that were created by trolls.</P>


* It's funny how you're very quick to dismiss a position as nonsense when it doesn't coincide with yours.* Fact is when the majority of the NFL football world was rediculing Eli for saying he's "Elite", you were saying everyone elses opinion was nonsense, but yours.* You however, were the the overwhelming minority.* Did you every think twice* - to see things on the other side of the coin?* Maybe, you might have been wrong?*</P>


*</P>

actually I look at the facts before forming an opinion. I'll listen to your argument. If its valid its valid.

I'm not concerned with majority opinion, that's your hang up. You think perception is reality hence why you sited the top 100 list in a previous discussion only to backtrack and say that the list is flawed later on.

I might have been wrong about Eli but the thing is...I WASN'T That's the point. I was right. YOU WERE WRONG.

As far as the devils advocate stuff.

Again you've pointed to that list as evidence that Eli wasn't a good player. You can't say its rubbish today when yesterday you said it was valid evidence.

Saying you understand how Eli would be left off a list that is rubbish is nonsensical garbage and you know it.

You weren't playing devil's advocate, you were playing "Gumby's advocate"

And again you label me an Eli fanatic but you refuse to define what an Eli fanatic is.

You see your insistence on making the discussion go nowhere is why some consider you a troll.

rick5292
02-09-2012, 05:14 PM
Hey gumby.

Why did you change your classic signature after the giants won the super bowl? Stand by your signature.

"Eli realists criticize. Eli homers turn it into hate.
SAVE GIGGLES!!!!!
NFL.com top 100 - NFL players are all Eli "haters" ... lol"
</p>


Since I'm bored, I'll respond to you. You're not a very good troll.</p>


I already told you that my Sig has nothing to do with Eli and play, but everything to do with his fans like you. And I changed it because people who i do respect started asking questions about my sig as well. </p>

It takes a troll to know a troll, buddy ;0)

gumby742
02-09-2012, 05:23 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans. Being great isn't good enough. It's always something. If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe. Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is? And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater. Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with. It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme. </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer. He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know. But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>


maybe he's not as great as I think he is??? How great do I think he is? Do you even know? You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term. We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old. I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions. We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.</P>


Heh. You think I changed my stance on the top 100 list because you don't understand the concept of devil's advocate. My stance on that list was very simple. I thought the list was rubbish, but I could understand how Eli might have been left off that list, at the time.</P>


What nonsense position? The positions that we discuss are predicated on threads that YOU Eli fanatics create. If you go back in time, there were far more Eli thread created by pro Eli folk, then Eli threads that were created by trolls.</P>


It's funny how you're very quick to dismiss a position as nonsense when it doesn't coincide with yours. Fact is when the majority of the NFL football world was rediculing Eli for saying he's "Elite", you were saying everyone elses opinion was nonsense, but yours. You however, were the the overwhelming minority. Did you every think twice - to see things on the other side of the coin? Maybe, you might have been wrong?</P>


</P>


actually I look at the facts before forming an opinion. I'll listen to your argument. If its valid its valid. I'm not concerned with majority opinion, that's your hang up. You think perception is reality hence why you sited the top 100 list in a previous discussion only to backtrack and say that the list is flawed later on. I might have been wrong about Eli but the thing is...I WASN'T That's the point. I was right. YOU WERE WRONG. As far as the devils advocate stuff. Again you've pointed to that list as evidence that Eli wasn't a good player. You can't say its rubbish today when yesterday you said it was valid evidence. Saying you understand how Eli would be left off a list that is rubbish is nonsensical garbage and you know it. You weren't playing devil's advocate, you were playing "Gumby's advocate" And again you label me an Eli fanatic but you refuse to define what an Eli fanatic is. You see your insistence on making the discussion go nowhere is why some consider you a troll.</P>


You won't be able to find a post anywhere where I said that Eli was not a good player - because of that list. Hell, you couldn't find a post ever saying that Eli was not a good player. I'll bet the dr pepper on my desk on it. I was merely defending my stance that I could understand where players were coming from if Eli was not on that list.</P>


It's clear to me now that you're just not capable to be able to look on the other side, the flip side of the coin. Saying how i can understand something, even though i don't agree with it, is not rubbish at all.</P>


If you want to label me a troll, go right ahead. I'm actually bflo's biggest fan. I only engage in this conversation because i find it interesting to expand people's horizons.</P>


As for defining what an Eli fanatic is, i really don't have the time to conjure up criteria. But I will say that there are roughly 5 (not including those with multiple screen names) of you.</P>

burier
02-09-2012, 05:40 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe.* Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is?* And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater.* Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with.* It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme.* </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer.* He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know.* But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>


maybe he's not as great as I think he is??? How great do I think he is? Do you even know? You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term. We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old. I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions. We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.</P>


Heh.* You think I changed my stance on the top 100 list because you don't understand the concept of devil's advocate.* My stance on that list was very simple.* I thought the list was rubbish, but I could understand how Eli might have been left off that list, at the time.</P>


What nonsense position?* The positions that we discuss are predicated on threads that YOU Eli fanatics create.* If you go back in time, there were far more Eli thread created by pro Eli folk, then Eli threads that were created by trolls.</P>


* It's funny how you're very quick to dismiss a position as nonsense when it doesn't coincide with yours.* Fact is when the majority of the NFL football world was rediculing Eli for saying he's "Elite", you were saying everyone elses opinion was nonsense, but yours.* You however, were the the overwhelming minority.* Did you every think twice* - to see things on the other side of the coin?* Maybe, you might have been wrong?*</P>


*</P>


actually I look at the facts before forming an opinion. I'll listen to your argument. If its valid its valid. I'm not concerned with majority opinion, that's your hang up. You think perception is reality hence why you sited the top 100 list in a previous discussion only to backtrack and say that the list is flawed later on. I might have been wrong about Eli but the thing is...I WASN'T That's the point. I was right. YOU WERE WRONG. As far as the devils advocate stuff. Again you've pointed to that list as evidence that Eli wasn't a good player. You can't say its rubbish today when yesterday you said it was valid evidence. Saying you understand how Eli would be left off a list that is rubbish is nonsensical garbage and you know it. You weren't playing devil's advocate, you were playing "Gumby's advocate" And again you label me an Eli fanatic but you refuse to define what an Eli fanatic is. You see your insistence on making the discussion go nowhere is why some consider you a troll.</P>


You won't be able to find a post anywhere where I said that Eli was not a good player - because of that list.* Hell, you couldn't find a post ever saying that Eli was not a good player.* I'll bet the dr pepper on my desk on it.* I was merely defending my stance that I could understand where players were coming from if Eli was not on that list.*</P>


It's clear to me now that you're just not capable to be able to look on the other side, the flip side of the coin.* Saying how i can understand something, even though i don't agree with it, is not rubbish at all.*</P>


If you want to label me a troll, go right ahead.* I'm actually bflo's biggest fan.* I only engage in this conversation because i find it interesting to expand people's horizons.</P>


As for defining what an Eli fanatic is, i really don't have the time to conjure up criteria.* But I will say that there are roughly 5 (not including those with multiple screen names) of you.</P>

So you're refusing to answer the question??

*gasp* This from the guy that said The Burier was notorious for going silent in threads like these. Hmmm interesting.


dev·il's advocate (dvlz)
n.
1. One who argues against a cause or position, NOT as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position.

You are a commited opponent. You telling me we're having this discussion (For the 10,000th time) because you want to broaden my horizons while at the same time refusing to answer a specific question makes you highly transparent.

If you want to show me the other side give me some facts from the other side.

If you wanna call me a fanatic tell me what you call a fanatic and what I do to meet the standard.

Conjure up a criteria? Exactly. You'd have to conjure up a criteria.

You do know that you should have a criteria before you start calling people names right?

The fact that you don't, actually proves that you are infact the one who is a fanatic.

Alas specificty always ends these arguments.

Because we both know you hate Eli and you hate that he's succeeding...you hate that you can't run to ESPN to find the "perception" that supports your hate and you can't stand it.

bflo23
02-09-2012, 05:51 PM
You won't be able to find a post anywhere where I said that Eli was not a good player....</p>


</p>That is hilarious. You were the one demanding to trade Eli for Kevin Kolb after he won his first super bowl. Nice try, Patriot troll.

You just hate Eli more and more after beating your Pats again.

Harooni
02-09-2012, 08:09 PM
A league MVP will get him in. 2 SB,s are good enough.

Roosevelt
02-10-2012, 11:36 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</p>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans. Being great isn't good enough. It's always something. If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</p>

I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so?

I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.

Funny you see it that way. And since you think of me as a hater here's my take.

It's an honor to be included in HOF discussion. The HOF is for the greatest players of all time.

So the question is, if Eli's career ended today do you consider him to be one of the greatest of all time?

I think if Eli continues to play the way he did this year for a few more years then he is worthy of it. He's always displayed the ability to make big plays with the game on the line. This year he became an all-around great QB all season long.




I called Gumby a hater because he seems to like to label other posters but doesn't like it when he gets labeled.

When I read your posts I see someone suffering from the "I refuse to admit that I don't know what I'm talking about" syndrome.

That's why you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed into a great Quarterback despite not even being able to come up with an inch of factual basis for that claim.

You can't stick to your guns and keep talking about how mediocre Eli is since the "Majority" have come around. You'd seem like a crazy Zealot if you did that.

But you can't admit that you were wrong either so you pretend Eli is somehow different this year than years past that way you can be right then AND right now despite having completely opposite opinions and contradicting yourself.


I get the impression from you that its more about being bullheaded than outright hatred of Eli.

As for your question. I believe the Hall Of Fame (Not hall of stats) is for players who achieve unparalleled greatness.

Eli's Two MVPs are unmatched if you look at the circumstances under which those accolades were achieved.

Not to mention the remifications Eli's Giants have had on other greats legacy's. Bill Belichick is going to go down as a coach who couldn't win anything without LT or illegal video tapes.

Tom Brady will go down as a player who couldn't win anything without Vinietieri A KICKER and a player who couldn't beat Eli Manning...Peytons little brother. This stuff actualyl belongs in the hall of infamy.

So yes Eli is already a lock. Anything he does from here on out is just moving him up the ladder of all time greats.

To make the ridiculous claim that I've been wrong about Eli more than any other poster over the point I made that no one considered Eli a MVP candidate prior to this year is just comical. Seriously man, you need to get out more.

So go ahead and continue to spin your silly anti-Eli crap, I'll just stick to the facts like I have always done.

Being a Giants fan doesn't mean I'm going to heap undue praise on anybody. And if I criticize a player's performance it doesn't make me a hater.

You think Eli was a great player prior to this season. I don't. And apparently the rest of the league didn't either. I think Eli had his best year ever. And apparently everyone else does too.

But yes, I know, Eli came out of the womb in 2011 form and all his struggles were due to his teammates, coaches, stadium, wind, haters, etc.

It's really amazing that after a Super Bowl win to have these discussions. I'm done.

burier
02-10-2012, 11:51 AM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</p>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</p>

I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so?

I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.

Funny you see it that way.* And since you think of me as a hater here's my take.

It's an honor to be included in HOF discussion.* The HOF is for the greatest players of all time.

So the question is, if Eli's career ended today do you consider him to be one of the greatest of all time?

I think if Eli continues to play the way he did this year for a few more years then he is worthy of it.* He's always displayed the ability to make big plays with the game on the line.* This year he became an all-around great QB all season long.




I called Gumby a hater because he seems to like to label other posters but doesn't like it when he gets labeled.

When I read your posts I see someone suffering from the "I refuse to admit that I don't know what I'm talking about" syndrome.

That's why you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed into a great Quarterback despite not even being able to come up with an inch of factual basis for that claim.

You can't stick to your guns and keep talking about how mediocre Eli is since the "Majority" have come around. You'd seem like a crazy Zealot if you did that.

But you can't admit that you were wrong either so you pretend Eli is somehow different this year than years past that way you can be right then AND right now despite having completely opposite opinions and contradicting yourself.


I get the impression from you that its more about being bullheaded than outright hatred of Eli.

As for your question. I believe the Hall Of Fame (Not hall of stats) is for players who achieve unparalleled greatness.

Eli's Two MVPs are unmatched if you look at the circumstances under which those accolades were achieved.

Not to mention the remifications Eli's Giants have had on other greats legacy's. Bill Belichick is going to go down as a coach who couldn't win anything without LT or illegal video tapes.

Tom Brady will go down as a player who couldn't win anything without Vinietieri A KICKER and a player who couldn't beat Eli Manning...Peytons little brother. This stuff actualyl belongs in the hall of infamy.

So yes Eli is already a lock. Anything he does from here on out is just moving him up the ladder of all time greats.

To make the ridiculous claim that I've been wrong about Eli more than any other poster over the point I made that no one considered Eli a MVP candidate prior to this year is just comical.* Seriously man, you need to get out more.*

So go ahead and continue to spin your silly anti-Eli crap, I'll just stick to the facts like I have always done.

Being a Giants fan doesn't mean I'm going to heap undue praise on anybody.* And if I criticize a player's performance it doesn't make me a hater.

You think Eli was a great player prior to this season.* I don't.* And apparently the rest of the league didn't either.* I think Eli had his best year ever.* And apparently everyone else does too.

But yes, I know, Eli came out of the womb in 2011 form and all his struggles were due to his teammates, coaches, stadium, wind, haters, etc.

It's really amazing that after a Super Bowl win to have these discussions.* I'm done.




*




Be done. That's fine. I didn't start this so don't act like I come to pick fights with you.

You replied in my thread stating I should be mocked. And then YOU challenged ME. I respond and you're now acting like I'm some sort of bully.

Also just to be fair to people who might read this thread please don't confuse the facts.

Eli's name did come up in MVP talks prior to this year. That's a fact.

Eli has appeared in a prowbowl prior to this year that's a fact.

And Eli has had strong statistical years prior to this year. This includes seasons where he's thrown for more Tds than he did this year or at a higher completion percentage than he did this year or for less interceptions than he did this year. That's a fact.

Eli has won more games in past regular seasons than he has this year. That's a fact.

Eli has won a Super Bowl MVP prior to this year. That's also a fact.


So While I am glad to report that this was Eli's best season ever. Pretending that he's become this good over night is just that...pretend.

You're welcome to ignore the facts but your ignorance makes them no less accurate.

JMFP2
02-10-2012, 12:08 PM
You look at some of the Hall of Fame QBs (Griese, Waterfield).....if Eli strings together a few more 4000+ seasons, a few more winning seasons, he should have a resume that matches up well with guys who are in there.</P>


If his career ended now......that's a tough one.</P>


People use Jim Plunkett as a comparison.....well, Plunkett never even broke the 3000 yard passing mark, and the guy played for 15 years.</P>


Eli has already passed for more yards and TDs than Plunkett, in half the time.</P>


</P>


Here is where Eli Manning is right now: He has developed a reputation as the most clutch QB in the NFL right now....and this is not just among Giants fans. This is the 2nd time that he has outplayed Tom Brady in a Super Bowl. He went through the 3 best teams in the league to win it.....again. This kid is no fluke.</P>


If you don't believe me, check out the Eagles message boards....guys on there (that appreciate good QB play) are saying this about Eli Manning now.</P>


People mightstill argue that Brees, Rodgers, and Brady are better.....but now, it's an actual argument, as opposed to the statement of fact from the beginning of the year.</P>

burier
02-10-2012, 12:14 PM
You look at some of the Hall of Fame QBs (Griese, Waterfield).....if Eli strings together a few more 4000+ seasons, a few more winning seasons, he should have a resume that matches up well with guys who are in there.</P>


If his career ended now......that's a tough one.</P>


People use Jim Plunkett as a comparison.....well, Plunkett never even broke the 3000 yard passing mark, and the guy played for 15 years.</P>


Eli has already passed for more yards and TDs than Plunkett, in half the time.</P>

I think in Eli's case, if he retired today the magnitude of his play in two seperate playoff runs with two seperate Wr corps...The lore that he's created by deliveriing the greatest throw in SB history and the greatest play in SB history while no one thought he could do it gets him in without having to just stand around and compile stats for however many years.


Hall Of Fame...not Hall Of Stats

JMFP2
02-10-2012, 12:16 PM
You look at some of the Hall of Fame QBs (Griese, Waterfield).....if Eli strings together a few more 4000+ seasons, a few more winning seasons, he should have a resume that matches up well with guys who are in there.</P>


If his career ended now......that's a tough one.</P>


People use Jim Plunkett as a comparison.....well, Plunkett never even broke the 3000 yard passing mark, and the guy played for 15 years.</P>


Eli has already passed for more yards and TDs than Plunkett, in half the time.</P>


I think in Eli's case, if he retired today the magnitude of his play in two seperate playoff runs with two seperate Wr corps...The lore that he's created by deliveriing the greatest throw in SB history and the greatest play in SB history while no one thought he could do it gets him in without having to just stand around and compile stats for however many years. Hall Of Fame...not Hall Of Stats</P>


</P>


He's definitely building a case for consideration.</P>

Hostetler
02-10-2012, 12:44 PM
A league MVP will get him in. 2 SB,s are good enough.</P>


2 SB's gets him on the ballot, not in - League MVP coupled with 2 SB's Eli is in first time go.</P>


I do not hate Eli, But those saying Warner over rated, ETC ETC ETC... are just plain nuts.</P>


</P>


Warners career, 2 times League MVP, 1 SB MVP, 1 ring, 3 trips to SB. Went to SB with 2 different teams as starting QB, Numerous Pro-bowl/All Pro selections, and over 40k passing yards.</P>


</P>


Eli's career, 2 SB MVP, 2 Rings, 2 Pro-bowl selections.</P>


</P>


as of right now - Eli does not get in.</P>


</P>


Eli just needs to continue on the track he is going to get in.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 12:51 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.


nobody referred to jim plunkett as mr. clutch. He wasn't a road warrior, had a lifetime .500 record, only had 3 years of a winning record out of his 15 years in the NFL. Not to mention 52% comp rate , and eli has already passed him in TDs and yards in half the time...

Its not JUST the two SBs. If plunkett had any type of numbers, he would of been in as well

Roosevelt
02-10-2012, 01:11 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</p>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans. Being great isn't good enough. It's always something. If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</p>

I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so?

I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.

Funny you see it that way. And since you think of me as a hater here's my take.

It's an honor to be included in HOF discussion. The HOF is for the greatest players of all time.

So the question is, if Eli's career ended today do you consider him to be one of the greatest of all time?

I think if Eli continues to play the way he did this year for a few more years then he is worthy of it. He's always displayed the ability to make big plays with the game on the line. This year he became an all-around great QB all season long.




I called Gumby a hater because he seems to like to label other posters but doesn't like it when he gets labeled.

When I read your posts I see someone suffering from the "I refuse to admit that I don't know what I'm talking about" syndrome.

That's why you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed into a great Quarterback despite not even being able to come up with an inch of factual basis for that claim.

You can't stick to your guns and keep talking about how mediocre Eli is since the "Majority" have come around. You'd seem like a crazy Zealot if you did that.

But you can't admit that you were wrong either so you pretend Eli is somehow different this year than years past that way you can be right then AND right now despite having completely opposite opinions and contradicting yourself.


I get the impression from you that its more about being bullheaded than outright hatred of Eli.

As for your question. I believe the Hall Of Fame (Not hall of stats) is for players who achieve unparalleled greatness.

Eli's Two MVPs are unmatched if you look at the circumstances under which those accolades were achieved.

Not to mention the remifications Eli's Giants have had on other greats legacy's. Bill Belichick is going to go down as a coach who couldn't win anything without LT or illegal video tapes.

Tom Brady will go down as a player who couldn't win anything without Vinietieri A KICKER and a player who couldn't beat Eli Manning...Peytons little brother. This stuff actualyl belongs in the hall of infamy.

So yes Eli is already a lock. Anything he does from here on out is just moving him up the ladder of all time greats.

To make the ridiculous claim that I've been wrong about Eli more than any other poster over the point I made that no one considered Eli a MVP candidate prior to this year is just comical. Seriously man, you need to get out more.

So go ahead and continue to spin your silly anti-Eli crap, I'll just stick to the facts like I have always done.

Being a Giants fan doesn't mean I'm going to heap undue praise on anybody. And if I criticize a player's performance it doesn't make me a hater.

You think Eli was a great player prior to this season. I don't. And apparently the rest of the league didn't either. I think Eli had his best year ever. And apparently everyone else does too.

But yes, I know, Eli came out of the womb in 2011 form and all his struggles were due to his teammates, coaches, stadium, wind, haters, etc.

It's really amazing that after a Super Bowl win to have these discussions. I'm done.









Be done. That's fine. I didn't start this so don't act like I come to pick fights with you.

You replied in my thread stating I should be mocked. And then YOU challenged ME. I respond and you're now acting like I'm some sort of bully.

Also just to be fair to people who might read this thread please don't confuse the facts.

Eli's name did come up in MVP talks prior to this year. That's a fact.

Eli has appeared in a prowbowl prior to this year that's a fact.

And Eli has had strong statistical years prior to this year. This includes seasons where he's thrown for more Tds than he did this year or at a higher completion percentage than he did this year or for less interceptions than he did this year. That's a fact.

Eli has won more games in past regular seasons than he has this year. That's a fact.

Eli has won a Super Bowl MVP prior to this year. That's also a fact.


So While I am glad to report that this was Eli's best season ever. Pretending that he's become this good over night is just that...pretend.

You're welcome to ignore the facts but your ignorance makes them no less accurate.


This is good. I challenged you? This was my original post to you:

Funny you see it that way. And since you think of me as a hater here's my take.

It's an honor to be included in HOF discussion. The HOF is for the greatest players of all time.

So the question is, if Eli's career ended today do you consider him to be one of the greatest of all time?

I
think if Eli continues to play the way he did this year for a few more
years then he is worthy of it. He's always displayed the ability to
make big plays with the game on the line. This year he became an
all-around great QB all season long.




And you responded by attacking me with:

That's why you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed
into a great Quarterback despite not even being able to come up with an
inch of factual basis for that claim.


You can't stick to your guns and keep talking about how mediocre Eli
is since the "Majority" have come around. You'd seem like a crazy
Zealot if you did that.


But you can't admit that you were wrong either so you pretend Eli is
somehow different this year than years past that way you can be right
then AND right now despite having completely opposite opinions and
contradicting yourself.


I get the impression from you that its more about being bullheaded than outright hatred of Eli.




you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed into a great Quarterback.


And what is all this BS about me thinking Eli transformed into a great player? I believe this is Eli's best year. Can anyone is their right mind disagree?

I never said he sucked in previous years.

In '08 he played well until the playoff game. His playoff game was not good.

In '09 he played very well except for the stretch when he hurt his foot.

In '10 he probably tried to do too much, and in so doing made too many mistakes. He had a lot of poorly thrown balls that year. Too many turnovers.

And coming off the '10 season I got on Eli at the beginning of this season when he had the deer in the headlights look throughout the pre-season and for the 1st game and a half. That's the only time I've gotten on his case. Eight years is too long to start out the season looking like crap.

'11 was his best year ever. His accuracy has never been better. His command of the offense has never been better. He played smart, he protected the ball, and led this team to a Super Bowl that no one thought possible.

Now go run along and find another hater to whine about.

gumby742
02-10-2012, 02:33 PM
You won't be able to find a post anywhere where I said that Eli was not a good player....</p>


</p>That is hilarious. You were the one demanding to trade Eli for Kevin Kolb after he won his first super bowl. Nice try, Patriot troll.

You just hate Eli more and more after beating your Pats again.

no idea where you got that from, but that's pretty funny. just like you got other facts mixed up about my sig and how i applied it to Osi. Good job.

burier
02-10-2012, 02:42 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</p>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</p>

I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so?

I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.

Funny you see it that way.* And since you think of me as a hater here's my take.

It's an honor to be included in HOF discussion.* The HOF is for the greatest players of all time.

So the question is, if Eli's career ended today do you consider him to be one of the greatest of all time?

I think if Eli continues to play the way he did this year for a few more years then he is worthy of it.* He's always displayed the ability to make big plays with the game on the line.* This year he became an all-around great QB all season long.




I called Gumby a hater because he seems to like to label other posters but doesn't like it when he gets labeled.

When I read your posts I see someone suffering from the "I refuse to admit that I don't know what I'm talking about" syndrome.

That's why you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed into a great Quarterback despite not even being able to come up with an inch of factual basis for that claim.

You can't stick to your guns and keep talking about how mediocre Eli is since the "Majority" have come around. You'd seem like a crazy Zealot if you did that.

But you can't admit that you were wrong either so you pretend Eli is somehow different this year than years past that way you can be right then AND right now despite having completely opposite opinions and contradicting yourself.


I get the impression from you that its more about being bullheaded than outright hatred of Eli.

As for your question. I believe the Hall Of Fame (Not hall of stats) is for players who achieve unparalleled greatness.

Eli's Two MVPs are unmatched if you look at the circumstances under which those accolades were achieved.

Not to mention the remifications Eli's Giants have had on other greats legacy's. Bill Belichick is going to go down as a coach who couldn't win anything without LT or illegal video tapes.

Tom Brady will go down as a player who couldn't win anything without Vinietieri A KICKER and a player who couldn't beat Eli Manning...Peytons little brother. This stuff actualyl belongs in the hall of infamy.

So yes Eli is already a lock. Anything he does from here on out is just moving him up the ladder of all time greats.

To make the ridiculous claim that I've been wrong about Eli more than any other poster over the point I made that no one considered Eli a MVP candidate prior to this year is just comical.* Seriously man, you need to get out more.*

So go ahead and continue to spin your silly anti-Eli crap, I'll just stick to the facts like I have always done.

Being a Giants fan doesn't mean I'm going to heap undue praise on anybody.* And if I criticize a player's performance it doesn't make me a hater.

You think Eli was a great player prior to this season.* I don't.* And apparently the rest of the league didn't either.* I think Eli had his best year ever.* And apparently everyone else does too.

But yes, I know, Eli came out of the womb in 2011 form and all his struggles were due to his teammates, coaches, stadium, wind, haters, etc.

It's really amazing that after a Super Bowl win to have these discussions.* I'm done.




*




Be done. That's fine. I didn't start this so don't act like I come to pick fights with you.

You replied in my thread stating I should be mocked. And then YOU challenged ME. I respond and you're now acting like I'm some sort of bully.

Also just to be fair to people who might read this thread please don't confuse the facts.

Eli's name did come up in MVP talks prior to this year. That's a fact.

Eli has appeared in a prowbowl prior to this year that's a fact.

And Eli has had strong statistical years prior to this year. This includes seasons where he's thrown for more Tds than he did this year or at a higher completion percentage than he did this year or for less interceptions than he did this year. That's a fact.

Eli has won more games in past regular seasons than he has this year. That's a fact.

Eli has won a Super Bowl MVP prior to this year. That's also a fact.


So While I am glad to report that this was Eli's best season ever. Pretending that he's become this good over night is just that...pretend.

You're welcome to ignore the facts but your ignorance makes them no less accurate.


This is good.* I challenged you?* This was my original post to you:

Funny you see it that way.* And since you think of me as a hater here's my take.

It's an honor to be included in HOF discussion.* The HOF is for the greatest players of all time.

So the question is, if Eli's career ended today do you consider him to be one of the greatest of all time?

I
think if Eli continues to play the way he did this year for a few more
years then he is worthy of it.* He's always displayed the ability to
make big plays with the game on the line.* This year he became an
all-around great QB all season long.




And you responded by attacking me with:

That's why you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed
into a great Quarterback despite not even being able to come up with an
inch of factual basis for that claim.


You can't stick to your guns and keep talking about how mediocre Eli
is since the "Majority" have come around. You'd seem like a crazy
Zealot if you did that.


But you can't admit that you were wrong either so you pretend Eli is
somehow different this year than years past that way you can be right
then AND right now despite having completely opposite opinions and
contradicting yourself.


I get the impression from you that its more about being bullheaded than outright hatred of Eli.




you couch this nonsense about how Eli suddenly transformed into a great Quarterback.


And what is all this BS about me thinking Eli transformed into a great player? * I believe this is Eli's best year.* Can anyone is their right mind disagree?

I never said he sucked in previous years.

In '08 he played well until the playoff game.* His playoff game was not good.

In '09 he played very well except for the stretch when he hurt his foot.

In '10 he probably tried to do too much, and in so doing made too many mistakes.* He had a lot of poorly thrown balls that year.* Too many turnovers.

And coming off the '10 season I got on Eli at the beginning of this season when he had the deer in the headlights look throughout the pre-season and for the 1st game and a half.* That's the only time I've gotten on his case.* Eight years is too long to start out the season looking like crap. **

'11 was his best year ever.* His accuracy has never been better.* His command of the offense has never been better.* He played smart, he protected the ball, and led this team to a Super Bowl that no one thought possible.

Now go run along and find another hater to whine about.


Ha run along?

I wouldn't whine about you. I think you're funny.

PS: You challenged me in a different thread. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Are you trying to get some sort of brownie points by being misleading?

gumby742
02-10-2012, 02:43 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe.* Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is?* And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater.* Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with.* It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme.* </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer.* He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know.* But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>


maybe he's not as great as I think he is??? How great do I think he is? Do you even know? You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term. We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old. I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions. We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.</P>


Heh.* You think I changed my stance on the top 100 list because you don't understand the concept of devil's advocate.* My stance on that list was very simple.* I thought the list was rubbish, but I could understand how Eli might have been left off that list, at the time.</P>


What nonsense position?* The positions that we discuss are predicated on threads that YOU Eli fanatics create.* If you go back in time, there were far more Eli thread created by pro Eli folk, then Eli threads that were created by trolls.</P>


* It's funny how you're very quick to dismiss a position as nonsense when it doesn't coincide with yours.* Fact is when the majority of the NFL football world was rediculing Eli for saying he's "Elite", you were saying everyone elses opinion was nonsense, but yours.* You however, were the the overwhelming minority.* Did you every think twice* - to see things on the other side of the coin?* Maybe, you might have been wrong?*</P>


*</P>


actually I look at the facts before forming an opinion. I'll listen to your argument. If its valid its valid. I'm not concerned with majority opinion, that's your hang up. You think perception is reality hence why you sited the top 100 list in a previous discussion only to backtrack and say that the list is flawed later on. I might have been wrong about Eli but the thing is...I WASN'T That's the point. I was right. YOU WERE WRONG. As far as the devils advocate stuff. Again you've pointed to that list as evidence that Eli wasn't a good player. You can't say its rubbish today when yesterday you said it was valid evidence. Saying you understand how Eli would be left off a list that is rubbish is nonsensical garbage and you know it. You weren't playing devil's advocate, you were playing "Gumby's advocate" And again you label me an Eli fanatic but you refuse to define what an Eli fanatic is. You see your insistence on making the discussion go nowhere is why some consider you a troll.</P>


You won't be able to find a post anywhere where I said that Eli was not a good player - because of that list.* Hell, you couldn't find a post ever saying that Eli was not a good player.* I'll bet the dr pepper on my desk on it.* I was merely defending my stance that I could understand where players were coming from if Eli was not on that list.*</P>


It's clear to me now that you're just not capable to be able to look on the other side, the flip side of the coin.* Saying how i can understand something, even though i don't agree with it, is not rubbish at all.*</P>


If you want to label me a troll, go right ahead.* I'm actually bflo's biggest fan.* I only engage in this conversation because i find it interesting to expand people's horizons.</P>


As for defining what an Eli fanatic is, i really don't have the time to conjure up criteria.* But I will say that there are roughly 5 (not including those with multiple screen names) of you.</P>

So you're refusing to answer the question??

*gasp* This from the guy that said The Burier was notorious for going silent in threads like these. Hmmm interesting.


dev·il's advocate (dvlz)
n.
1. One who argues against a cause or position, NOT as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position.

You are a commited opponent. You telling me we're having this discussion (For the 10,000th time) because you want to broaden my horizons while at the same time refusing to answer a specific question makes you highly transparent.

If you want to show me the other side give me some facts from the other side.

If you wanna call me a fanatic tell me what you call a fanatic and what I do to meet the standard.

Conjure up a criteria? Exactly. You'd have to conjure up a criteria.

You do know that you should have a criteria before you start calling people names right?

The fact that you don't, actually proves that you are infact the one who is a fanatic.

Alas specificty always ends these arguments.

Because we both know you hate Eli and you hate that he's succeeding...you hate that you can't run to ESPN to find the "perception" that supports your hate and you can't stand it.

commited opponent? There have been PLENTY of threads where i did nothing but give him props. Really, what's the matter with you? Or do you choose to ignore them? But then again, you don't believe in trying to understand the other side do you?

Let me ask you something, if someone says, "Eli is a good QB, but I don't think he's top 5". Is that hating?


Here's a toughie that you might not understand.
Hmm, the fact that i don't bother creating criteria,under the assumption, that i don't know what a fanatic is, proves that I am a fanatic. HMMMM. Does that really make sense to you?

You really have no clue. Not only do you think that looking at the flip side of the coin makes you agree with that side, you just said the above, which makes absolutely no sense. And btw, labeling you a fanatic or not, has 0 relevance to our conversation.

If you want to label pretty much anyone who doesn't think Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread, then go ahead. But, I'm going to stop there, because getting any meaner would be inappropriate. You have a lot to learn.

Voldamort
02-10-2012, 02:49 PM
enough already,Eli is elite and he will make the HOF when he is done playing!

NJ10
02-10-2012, 03:54 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

But don't tell me you didn't see this comming.

Eli isn't as good as Rivers.

Eli Wins SB MVP.

Eli Is not an Elite QB.

Eli Wins SB MVP

Eli is not a HOF....

Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear.

Eli is not the best QB ever.

Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way.

When has Eli not answered the bell?

As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.

I was going to post the same thing. When he wins another won the debate will be,"Well he isnt the greatest QB of All-Time" I just don't get it. What does this guy have to do to get everybody off of his back? Jesus Christ

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 04:04 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.</P>


I'm not following you here.</P>


If the conversation about Eli has shifted from "Is he elite?" to "Is he a potential Hall of Famer?"...that sounds like a great compliment to the kid.</P>


After 8 years in the league he's being discussed in the context of the Hall of Fame, and you think thats a knock?</P>


You're taking Eli Cultism to new levels.</P>


</P>

burier
02-10-2012, 04:16 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe.* Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is?* And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater.* Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with.* It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme.* </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer.* He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know.* But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>


maybe he's not as great as I think he is??? How great do I think he is? Do you even know? You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term. We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old. I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions. We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.</P>


Heh.* You think I changed my stance on the top 100 list because you don't understand the concept of devil's advocate.* My stance on that list was very simple.* I thought the list was rubbish, but I could understand how Eli might have been left off that list, at the time.</P>


What nonsense position?* The positions that we discuss are predicated on threads that YOU Eli fanatics create.* If you go back in time, there were far more Eli thread created by pro Eli folk, then Eli threads that were created by trolls.</P>


* It's funny how you're very quick to dismiss a position as nonsense when it doesn't coincide with yours.* Fact is when the majority of the NFL football world was rediculing Eli for saying he's "Elite", you were saying everyone elses opinion was nonsense, but yours.* You however, were the the overwhelming minority.* Did you every think twice* - to see things on the other side of the coin?* Maybe, you might have been wrong?*</P>


*</P>


actually I look at the facts before forming an opinion. I'll listen to your argument. If its valid its valid. I'm not concerned with majority opinion, that's your hang up. You think perception is reality hence why you sited the top 100 list in a previous discussion only to backtrack and say that the list is flawed later on. I might have been wrong about Eli but the thing is...I WASN'T That's the point. I was right. YOU WERE WRONG. As far as the devils advocate stuff. Again you've pointed to that list as evidence that Eli wasn't a good player. You can't say its rubbish today when yesterday you said it was valid evidence. Saying you understand how Eli would be left off a list that is rubbish is nonsensical garbage and you know it. You weren't playing devil's advocate, you were playing "Gumby's advocate" And again you label me an Eli fanatic but you refuse to define what an Eli fanatic is. You see your insistence on making the discussion go nowhere is why some consider you a troll.</P>


You won't be able to find a post anywhere where I said that Eli was not a good player - because of that list.* Hell, you couldn't find a post ever saying that Eli was not a good player.* I'll bet the dr pepper on my desk on it.* I was merely defending my stance that I could understand where players were coming from if Eli was not on that list.*</P>


It's clear to me now that you're just not capable to be able to look on the other side, the flip side of the coin.* Saying how i can understand something, even though i don't agree with it, is not rubbish at all.*</P>


If you want to label me a troll, go right ahead.* I'm actually bflo's biggest fan.* I only engage in this conversation because i find it interesting to expand people's horizons.</P>


As for defining what an Eli fanatic is, i really don't have the time to conjure up criteria.* But I will say that there are roughly 5 (not including those with multiple screen names) of you.</P>

So you're refusing to answer the question??

*gasp* This from the guy that said The Burier was notorious for going silent in threads like these. Hmmm interesting.


dev·il's advocate (dvlz)
n.
1. One who argues against a cause or position, NOT as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position.

You are a commited opponent. You telling me we're having this discussion (For the 10,000th time) because you want to broaden my horizons while at the same time refusing to answer a specific question makes you highly transparent.

If you want to show me the other side give me some facts from the other side.

If you wanna call me a fanatic tell me what you call a fanatic and what I do to meet the standard.

Conjure up a criteria? Exactly. You'd have to conjure up a criteria.

You do know that you should have a criteria before you start calling people names right?

The fact that you don't, actually proves that you are infact the one who is a fanatic.

Alas specificty always ends these arguments.

Because we both know you hate Eli and you hate that he's succeeding...you hate that you can't run to ESPN to find the "perception" that supports your hate and you can't stand it.

commited opponent? There have been PLENTY of threads where i did nothing but give him props. Really, what's the matter with you? Or do you choose to ignore them? But then again, you don't believe in trying to understand the other side do you?

Let me ask you something, if someone says, "Eli is a good QB, but I don't think he's top 5". Is that hating?


Here's a toughie that you might not understand.
Hmm, the fact that i don't bother creating criteria,under the assumption, that i don't know what a fanatic is, proves that I am a fanatic. HMMMM. Does that really make sense to you?

You really have no clue. Not only do you think that looking at the flip side of the coin makes you agree with that side, you just said the above, which makes absolutely no sense. And btw, labeling you a fanatic or not, has 0 relevance to our conversation.

If you want to label pretty much anyone who doesn't think Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread, then go ahead. But, I'm going to stop there, because getting any meaner would be inappropriate. You have a lot to learn.

Oh I get it. I just need to see the other side....wait. You already see the other side right? Sooooo why are we arguing?

Please tell me why you're brining up things that are not relevant to this conversation?

Why do keep talking about seeing the other side???

I see the other side. I DISAGREE!!!!!

I've heard every reasonable argument against Eli. I've heard every unreasonable argument against Eli and I simply disagree.

I don't play devil's advocate. If I can't pick a side I keep my mouth shut.

But were you playing devil's advocate? Really? When did that start??

Was that before or after you said Ben Rothlisburger had more consecutively "good" passer ratings than Eli thus making him a better Quaterback than Eli?

Was that before or after you claimed that Eli was an inconsistent player and when I showed you the stats to prove otherwise YOU STILL STOOD BY THAT ARGUMENT! Despite it being disproven? (Fantatics can't be reasoned with. Fanatics ignore facts.)

Seriously dude I don't know who you think you're dealing with.

Your fanaticism against Eli has you all confused.

\\
"Hmm, the fact that i don't bother creating criteria,under the assumption, that i don't know what a fanatic is, proves that I am a fanatic. HMMMM. Does that really make sense to you?"

Read that back to yourself and perhaps try harder next time.


I'll just say that you labeling me and then refusing to be specific is exactly what Eli haters are all about. Non-descript, bs arguments designed to waste everyones time.

elismom
02-10-2012, 04:23 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton.* Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says.* The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday.* That's all that really matters.*


WOW!! LOL!!
Plunkett huh?

the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds
Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!!

Nice Rosey nice

elismom
02-10-2012, 04:24 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB.

The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today.

I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton.* Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says.* The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday.* That's all that really matters.*


WOW!! LOL!!
Plunkett huh?

the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds
Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!!

Nice Rosey nice

Actually I just checked, eli has more if not tied all his career totals in 8 yrs. lollololo

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 04:28 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</P>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</P>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</P>

elismom
02-10-2012, 04:32 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</P>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</P>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</P>


</P>


</P>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</P>


</P>


Of course you have to find a loophole</P>

elismom
02-10-2012, 04:33 PM
plunkett in oakland had</P>


81 tds and 80 picks</P>


AWESOME!</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 04:33 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</p>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</p>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</p>

thats fine, but one look at his numbers and u'd be able to see the difference between he and eli.

to suggest that because Plunkett didn't get in, eli isn't automatically in is a false comparison

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 04:37 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</P>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</P>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</P>


</P>


</P>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</P>


</P>


Of course you have to find a loophole</P>


</P>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</P>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 04:38 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</p>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</p>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</p>


</p>


</p>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</p>


</p>


Of course you have to find a loophole</p>


</p>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</p>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</p>

you can make that case for MANY QBs

he turned into Trent Dilfer, not Eli Manning when he resurrected with the Raiders

elismom
02-10-2012, 04:41 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</P>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</P>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</P>


</P>


</P>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</P>


</P>


Of course you have to find a loophole</P>


</P>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</P>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</P>


</P>


</P>


His stats are ugly, no real way around it. He went on to win on good teams.</P>


Jsut saying, Rosey pulled that out of the sky and really it was a terribl move to compare eli to someone who is beneath him. Really a joke.</P>

Kruunch
02-10-2012, 04:45 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton.* Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says.* The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday.* That's all that really matters.*
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</P>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England?* He got absolutely killed.* His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland.* If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</P>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</P>


</P>


*</P>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said?* And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</P>


*</P>


Of course you have to find a loophole</P>


</P>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats.* That kid could play but he had nothing around him.* Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL.* He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</P>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse..* Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead.* Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls.* Jim Plunkett was a great story.* His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly.* Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did.* Not a knock on Eli.* I just don't think many could have.</P>

Didn't the Pats run the option offense with Plunkett?

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 04:48 PM
tebow'd

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 04:49 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</P>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</P>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</P>


</P>


</P>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</P>


</P>


Of course you have to find a loophole</P>


</P>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</P>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</P>


</P>


</P>


His stats are ugly, no real way around it. He went on to win on good teams.</P>


Jsut saying, Rosey pulled that out of the sky and really it was a terribl move to compare eli to someone who is beneath him. Really a joke.</P>


</P>


You know not of what you speak. I remember the Raiders going down the tubes with Dan Pastorini and having their season saved by Jim Plunkett. Pastorini was "carried off the field" and Plunkett came in and led them to a SB.</P>


The funny thing was that Pastorini was faking the injury because he was probably the softest QB in the league. The team was dead until Plunkett because their QB.</P>

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 04:51 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</P>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</P>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</P>


</P>


</P>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</P>


</P>


Of course you have to find a loophole</P>


</P>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</P>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</P>


</P>


</P>


His stats are ugly, no real way around it. He went on to win on good teams.</P>


Jsut saying, Rosey pulled that out of the sky and really it was a terribl move to compare eli to someone who is beneath him. Really a joke.</P>


</P>


Rosie used Plunkett only to show that winning two SB's doesn't make you a lock for the Hall.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 04:52 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</p>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</p>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</p>


</p>


</p>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</p>


</p>


Of course you have to find a loophole</p>


</p>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</p>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</p>


</p>


</p>


His stats are ugly, no real way around it. He went on to win on good teams.</p>


Jsut saying, Rosey pulled that out of the sky and really it was a terribl move to compare eli to someone who is beneath him. Really a joke.</p>


</p>


Rosie used Plunkett only to show that winning two SB's doesn't make you a lock for the Hall.</p>

Plunkett's reg season numbers made him the exception

Eli will be in

byron
02-10-2012, 04:55 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</P>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</P>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</P>


</P>


</P>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</P>


</P>


Of course you have to find a loophole</P>


</P>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</P>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</P>


</P>


</P>


His stats are ugly, no real way around it. He went on to win on good teams.</P>


Jsut saying, Rosey pulled that out of the sky and really it was a terribl move to compare eli to someone who is beneath him. Really a joke.</P>


</P>


Rosie used Plunkett only to show that winning two SB's doesn't make you a lock for the Hall.</P>

Plunkett's reg season numbers made him the exception

Eli will be in
yeah they are all ready clearing spot

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 05:07 PM
haha they are adding a <font size="6">M</font>anning wing Big B

n<font size="6">O</font>w i'm n<font size="6">O</font>t going to mention any names.but, I see a few poste<font size="6">R</font>s who don't agr<font size="6">E</font>e wit<font size="6">H</font> two rings and your in debat<font size="6">E</font>, but once did <font size="6">A</font>fter big ben won his secon<font size="6">D</font>

again, i won't mention anybody's name

Roosevelt
02-10-2012, 05:47 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</p>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</p>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</p>


</p>


</p>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</p>


</p>


Of course you have to find a loophole</p>


</p>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</p>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</p>


</p>


</p>


His stats are ugly, no real way around it. He went on to win on good teams.</p>


Jsut saying, Rosey pulled that out of the sky and really it was a terribl move to compare eli to someone who is beneath him. Really a joke.</p>


</p>


Rosie used Plunkett only to show that winning two SB's doesn't make you a lock for the Hall.</p>

That's right, and also because he was voted Comeback Player of the Year.

Being honored for your performance over an entire season carries a bit more weight then a single game honor like the Super Bowl. Especially when the MVP is not a clear cut decision. Chances are the QB is going to get it.

Unlike Simms MVP in '86, Tuck could have easily have won the '07 MVP, and Nicks or Manningham could have easily won this one.

But, it was a nice to see mommy stick her foot in her mouth once again.

Roosevelt
02-10-2012, 05:48 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</p>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</p>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</p>


</p>


</p>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</p>


</p>


Of course you have to find a loophole</p>


</p>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</p>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</p>


</p>


</p>


His stats are ugly, no real way around it. He went on to win on good teams.</p>


Jsut saying, Rosey pulled that out of the sky and really it was a terribl move to compare eli to someone who is beneath him. Really a joke.</p>


</p>


Rosie used Plunkett only to show that winning two SB's doesn't make you a lock for the Hall.</p>

Plunkett's reg season numbers made him the exception

Eli will be in


I pm'ed you the other day.

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 05:51 PM
haha they are adding a <FONT size=6>M</FONT>anning wing Big B

n<FONT size=6>O</FONT>w i'm n<FONT size=6>O</FONT>t going to mention any names.but, I see a few poste<FONT size=6>R</FONT>s who don't agr<FONT size=6>E</FONT>e wit<FONT size=6>H</FONT> two rings and your in debat<FONT size=6>E</FONT>, but once did <FONT size=6>A</FONT>fter big ben won his secon<FONT size=6>D</FONT>

again, i won't mention anybody's name
</P>


I'm so proud right now. Its like watching my son (dimwitted of course but still....) graduate from college after only 7 years in school.</P>


Matt.....<FONT size=4>I could cry</FONT>...but I won't.</P>


All those years riding the short bus and look at you now.</P>

gumby742
02-10-2012, 05:51 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans.* Being great isn't good enough.* It's always something.* If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe.* Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is?* And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater.* Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with.* It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme.* </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer.* He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know.* But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>


maybe he's not as great as I think he is??? How great do I think he is? Do you even know? You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term. We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old. I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions. We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.</P>


Heh.* You think I changed my stance on the top 100 list because you don't understand the concept of devil's advocate.* My stance on that list was very simple.* I thought the list was rubbish, but I could understand how Eli might have been left off that list, at the time.</P>


What nonsense position?* The positions that we discuss are predicated on threads that YOU Eli fanatics create.* If you go back in time, there were far more Eli thread created by pro Eli folk, then Eli threads that were created by trolls.</P>


* It's funny how you're very quick to dismiss a position as nonsense when it doesn't coincide with yours.* Fact is when the majority of the NFL football world was rediculing Eli for saying he's "Elite", you were saying everyone elses opinion was nonsense, but yours.* You however, were the the overwhelming minority.* Did you every think twice* - to see things on the other side of the coin?* Maybe, you might have been wrong?*</P>


*</P>


actually I look at the facts before forming an opinion. I'll listen to your argument. If its valid its valid. I'm not concerned with majority opinion, that's your hang up. You think perception is reality hence why you sited the top 100 list in a previous discussion only to backtrack and say that the list is flawed later on. I might have been wrong about Eli but the thing is...I WASN'T That's the point. I was right. YOU WERE WRONG. As far as the devils advocate stuff. Again you've pointed to that list as evidence that Eli wasn't a good player. You can't say its rubbish today when yesterday you said it was valid evidence. Saying you understand how Eli would be left off a list that is rubbish is nonsensical garbage and you know it. You weren't playing devil's advocate, you were playing "Gumby's advocate" And again you label me an Eli fanatic but you refuse to define what an Eli fanatic is. You see your insistence on making the discussion go nowhere is why some consider you a troll.</P>


You won't be able to find a post anywhere where I said that Eli was not a good player - because of that list.* Hell, you couldn't find a post ever saying that Eli was not a good player.* I'll bet the dr pepper on my desk on it.* I was merely defending my stance that I could understand where players were coming from if Eli was not on that list.*</P>


It's clear to me now that you're just not capable to be able to look on the other side, the flip side of the coin.* Saying how i can understand something, even though i don't agree with it, is not rubbish at all.*</P>


If you want to label me a troll, go right ahead.* I'm actually bflo's biggest fan.* I only engage in this conversation because i find it interesting to expand people's horizons.</P>


As for defining what an Eli fanatic is, i really don't have the time to conjure up criteria.* But I will say that there are roughly 5 (not including those with multiple screen names) of you.</P>

So you're refusing to answer the question??

*gasp* This from the guy that said The Burier was notorious for going silent in threads like these. Hmmm interesting.


dev·il's advocate (dvlz)
n.
1. One who argues against a cause or position, NOT as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position.

You are a commited opponent. You telling me we're having this discussion (For the 10,000th time) because you want to broaden my horizons while at the same time refusing to answer a specific question makes you highly transparent.

If you want to show me the other side give me some facts from the other side.

If you wanna call me a fanatic tell me what you call a fanatic and what I do to meet the standard.

Conjure up a criteria? Exactly. You'd have to conjure up a criteria.

You do know that you should have a criteria before you start calling people names right?

The fact that you don't, actually proves that you are infact the one who is a fanatic.

Alas specificty always ends these arguments.

Because we both know you hate Eli and you hate that he's succeeding...you hate that you can't run to ESPN to find the "perception" that supports your hate and you can't stand it.

commited opponent? There have been PLENTY of threads where i did nothing but give him props. Really, what's the matter with you? Or do you choose to ignore them? But then again, you don't believe in trying to understand the other side do you?

Let me ask you something, if someone says, "Eli is a good QB, but I don't think he's top 5". Is that hating?


Here's a toughie that you might not understand.
Hmm, the fact that i don't bother creating criteria,under the assumption, that i don't know what a fanatic is, proves that I am a fanatic. HMMMM. Does that really make sense to you?

You really have no clue. Not only do you think that looking at the flip side of the coin makes you agree with that side, you just said the above, which makes absolutely no sense. And btw, labeling you a fanatic or not, has 0 relevance to our conversation.

If you want to label pretty much anyone who doesn't think Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread, then go ahead. But, I'm going to stop there, because getting any meaner would be inappropriate. You have a lot to learn.

Oh I get it. I just need to see the other side....wait. You already see the other side right? Sooooo why are we arguing?

Please tell me why you're brining up things that are not relevant to this conversation?

Why do keep talking about seeing the other side???

I see the other side. I DISAGREE!!!!!

I've heard every reasonable argument against Eli. I've heard every unreasonable argument against Eli and I simply disagree.

I don't play devil's advocate. If I can't pick a side I keep my mouth shut.

But were you playing devil's advocate? Really? When did that start??

Was that before or after you said Ben Rothlisburger had more consecutively "good" passer ratings than Eli thus making him a better Quaterback than Eli?

Was that before or after you claimed that Eli was an inconsistent player and when I showed you the stats to prove otherwise YOU STILL STOOD BY THAT ARGUMENT! Despite it being disproven? (Fantatics can't be reasoned with. Fanatics ignore facts.)

Seriously dude I don't know who you think you're dealing with.

Your fanaticism against Eli has you all confused.

\\
"Hmm, the fact that i don't bother creating criteria,under the assumption, that i don't know what a fanatic is, proves that I am a fanatic. HMMMM. Does that really make sense to you?"

Read that back to yourself and perhaps try harder next time.


I'll just say that you labeling me and then refusing to be specific is exactly what Eli haters are all about. Non-descript, bs arguments designed to waste everyones time.

Actually you bring up a good point. Why aren't I seeing it from your side? I actually do. Call me a sucker for trying to convince the other side.

Let me reiterate what I said about Ben. Ben WAS clearly better then Eli because Eli was not efficient, accurate, and consistent. Simple. I brought up QB rating, saying many times that it was flawed as was all ratings, but it was a decent INDICATOR. but only as a response to people asking me to prove it. Well, it was a decent indicator. It was not THE reason.

What stats did you show that Eli was consistent. I've proved you how wrong you were every time in your use of stats. Want to talk total TDs? Yards? Ben has had 600-700 less attempts.

Heh. Who labeled who first? Who is the one that is overly sensitive to not only the media, but what other Giant fans are saying?

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 05:53 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY.

Sorry but two rings doesn't put you in Canton. Plunkett has two rings, a SB MVP and a Comeback Player of the Year and he's not into Canton.

Eli had a great year, but he needs a few more to get him in Canton IMO.

And who gives a crap what anyone says. The Giants proved all the so-called experts wrong again.

Eli had over a million fans chanting M-V-P to him yesterday. That's all that really matters.
WOW!! LOL!! Plunkett huh? the guy who played 15 yrs and has a total of 164 tds Eli has more in 8 yrs lol!!! Nice Rosey nice</p>


Do you have any idea what Jim Plunkett had to deal with in New England? He got absolutely killed. His career was over when he was traded to SF, only to rise from the ashes in Oakland. If Plunkett was treated by his coaches like Eli has been, he would have been a great QB.</p>


Leave Jim Plunkett alone, that kid was one resiliant pro.</p>


</p>


</p>


ok but don't you think eli doing what he did in his entire career in half the time is something to be said? And consider you guys say eli stunk for 4 yrs.</p>


</p>


Of course you have to find a loophole</p>


</p>


I've lived in MA most of my life and watched Plunkett fed to the lions right after he was drafted by the Pats. That kid could play but he had nothing around him. Eli has been groomed since he was a kid to play in the NFL. He even had his family lobby to get him out of SD.</p>


Plunkett was very similar to what we saw with David Carr, only worse.. Only Plunkett rose up and won 2 superbowls after he was left for dead. Can you imagine David Carr leading some team to 2 superbowls. Jim Plunkett was a great story. His stats in that era, combined with his bad experience in NE and SF, make him no one to take lightly. Honestly, I doubt Eli could have survived what Plunkett did. Not a knock on Eli. I just don't think many could have.</p>


</p>


</p>


His stats are ugly, no real way around it. He went on to win on good teams.</p>


Jsut saying, Rosey pulled that out of the sky and really it was a terribl move to compare eli to someone who is beneath him. Really a joke.</p>


</p>


Rosie used Plunkett only to show that winning two SB's doesn't make you a lock for the Hall.</p>

Plunkett's reg season numbers made him the exception

Eli will be in


I pm'ed you the other day.


damn man just saw it my bad

responded

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 05:54 PM
haha they are adding a <font size="6">M</font>anning wing Big B

n<font size="6">O</font>w i'm n<font size="6">O</font>t going to mention any names.but, I see a few poste<font size="6">R</font>s who don't agr<font size="6">E</font>e wit<font size="6">H</font> two rings and your in debat<font size="6">E</font>, but once did <font size="6">A</font>fter big ben won his secon<font size="6">D</font>

again, i won't mention anybody's name
</p>


I'm so proud right now. Its like watching my son (dimwitted of course but still....) graduate from college after only 7 years in school.</p>


Matt.....<font size="4">I could cry</font>...but I won't.</p>


All those years riding the short bus and look at you now.</p>

hahaha

burier
02-10-2012, 06:04 PM
I am frankly sick of the talking heads on TV. Every year its a new angle to deminish ELi. He is not Peyton, He is too incosistent, He throws too many picks, thows off his back foot, he does not show any fire or emotion, He can't carry his team, He thinks he is Elite...snicker, snicker, and now its morped into "he is not a HOF" QB. The guy is only breaking NFL records, putting himself in the same class as a few of the greats, has 2 SBMVPS, 2 Probowl invites, and lets be real, he is the true comeback kid playing today. I guess the great thing about Eli is this seems to bother the fans more than it does him.... and that is a wonderful trait to have in NY. But don't tell me you didn't see this comming. Eli isn't as good as Rivers. Eli Wins SB MVP. Eli Is not an Elite QB. Eli Wins SB MVP Eli is not a HOF.... Its always something. Trust once he gets the the third ring you'll hear. Eli is not the best QB ever. Its annoying as a fan but as a fan I love it because I look at it this way. When has Eli not answered the bell? As soon as someone says Eli can't or isn't Eli goes out and proves them wrong. So I thank the talking heads for providing constant fuel for my Quarterback.</P>


And that's exactly the the problem with some fans. Being great isn't good enough. It's always something. If Eli isn't seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread, they get their panties in a bunch.</P>


I just want him to get his due. If Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why shouldn't he get credit for being so? I'm not worried about the HOF that's more than a decade away. Eli is the best Quarterback playing today and that's fine by me. But I do find it funny how since the media can't make the Elite argument against Eli anymore they just pick some other category to exclude him from which haters like you must think is really cute.</P>


Maybe. Just maybe, he isn't as great as you think he is? And yes, I know how you love labeling everyone a hater. Which brings me back to why my sig regarding the top 100 list existed to begin with. It's to get you "Eli is the best thing ever" people to really re-think your perspective and how it may be extreme. </P>


Honestly, i can't give 2 craps about if Eli is a HOFer. He playing great football right now and that's all I need to know. But for people like you, it's NEVER going to be enough unless he's proclaimed the best QB in the history of the NFL.</P>


You eli fanatics really are an interesting study.</P>


maybe he's not as great as I think he is??? How great do I think he is? Do you even know? You want to label everyone an eli fanatic but you can't even define the term. We've already discussed the top 100 list. You changed your story and its getting old. I think Eli haters like you are the interesting study. Constantly changing your requirements, constantly rationalizing your nonsense positions. We can go around and around but the bottom line is...I tell it like it is and you tell it like it might be.</P>


Heh. You think I changed my stance on the top 100 list because you don't understand the concept of devil's advocate. My stance on that list was very simple. I thought the list was rubbish, but I could understand how Eli might have been left off that list, at the time.</P>


What nonsense position? The positions that we discuss are predicated on threads that YOU Eli fanatics create. If you go back in time, there were far more Eli thread created by pro Eli folk, then Eli threads that were created by trolls.</P>


It's funny how you're very quick to dismiss a position as nonsense when it doesn't coincide with yours. Fact is when the majority of the NFL football world was rediculing Eli for saying he's "Elite", you were saying everyone elses opinion was nonsense, but yours. You however, were the the overwhelming minority. Did you every think twice - to see things on the other side of the coin? Maybe, you might have been wrong?</P>


</P>


actually I look at the facts before forming an opinion. I'll listen to your argument. If its valid its valid. I'm not concerned with majority opinion, that's your hang up. You think perception is reality hence why you sited the top 100 list in a previous discussion only to backtrack and say that the list is flawed later on. I might have been wrong about Eli but the thing is...I WASN'T That's the point. I was right. YOU WERE WRONG. As far as the devils advocate stuff. Again you've pointed to that list as evidence that Eli wasn't a good player. You can't say its rubbish today when yesterday you said it was valid evidence. Saying you understand how Eli would be left off a list that is rubbish is nonsensical garbage and you know it. You weren't playing devil's advocate, you were playing "Gumby's advocate" And again you label me an Eli fanatic but you refuse to define what an Eli fanatic is. You see your insistence on making the discussion go nowhere is why some consider you a troll.</P>


You won't be able to find a post anywhere where I said that Eli was not a good player - because of that list. Hell, you couldn't find a post ever saying that Eli was not a good player. I'll bet the dr pepper on my desk on it. I was merely defending my stance that I could understand where players were coming from if Eli was not on that list.</P>


It's clear to me now that you're just not capable to be able to look on the other side, the flip side of the coin. Saying how i can understand something, even though i don't agree with it, is not rubbish at all.</P>


If you want to label me a troll, go right ahead. I'm actually bflo's biggest fan. I only engage in this conversation because i find it interesting to expand people's horizons.</P>


As for defining what an Eli fanatic is, i really don't have the time to conjure up criteria. But I will say that there are roughly 5 (not including those with multiple screen names) of you.</P>


So you're refusing to answer the question?? *gasp* This from the guy that said The Burier was notorious for going silent in threads like these. Hmmm interesting. dev·il's advocate (dvlz) n. 1. One who argues against a cause or position, NOT as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position. You are a commited opponent. You telling me we're having this discussion (For the 10,000th time) because you want to broaden my horizons while at the same time refusing to answer a specific question makes you highly transparent. If you want to show me the other side give me some facts from the other side. If you wanna call me a fanatic tell me what you call a fanatic and what I do to meet the standard. Conjure up a criteria? Exactly. You'd have to conjure up a criteria. You do know that you should have a criteria before you start calling people names right? The fact that you don't, actually proves that you are infact the one who is a fanatic. Alas specificty always ends these arguments. Because we both know you hate Eli and you hate that he's succeeding...you hate that you can't run to ESPN to find the "perception" that supports your hate and you can't stand it. commited opponent? There have been PLENTY of threads where i did nothing but give him props. Really, what's the matter with you? Or do you choose to ignore them? But then again, you don't believe in trying to understand the other side do you? Let me ask you something, if someone says, "Eli is a good QB, but I don't think he's top 5". Is that hating? Here's a toughie that you might not understand. Hmm, the fact that i don't bother creating criteria,under the assumption, that i don't know what a fanatic is, proves that I am a fanatic. HMMMM. Does that really make sense to you? You really have no clue. Not only do you think that looking at the flip side of the coin makes you agree with that side, you just said the above, which makes absolutely no sense. And btw, labeling you a fanatic or not, has 0 relevance to our conversation. If you want to label pretty much anyone who doesn't think Eli is the greatest thing since sliced bread, then go ahead. But, I'm going to stop there, because getting any meaner would be inappropriate. You have a lot to learn. Oh I get it. I just need to see the other side....wait. You already see the other side right? Sooooo why are we arguing? Please tell me why you're brining up things that are not relevant to this conversation? Why do keep talking about seeing the other side??? I see the other side. I DISAGREE!!!!! I've heard every reasonable argument against Eli. I've heard every unreasonable argument against Eli and I simply disagree. I don't play devil's advocate. If I can't pick a side I keep my mouth shut. But were you playing devil's advocate? Really? When did that start?? Was that before or after you said Ben Rothlisburger had more consecutively "good" passer ratings than Eli thus making him a better Quaterback than Eli? Was that before or after you claimed that Eli was an inconsistent player and when I showed you the stats to prove otherwise YOU STILL STOOD BY THAT ARGUMENT! Despite it being disproven? (Fantatics can't be reasoned with. Fanatics ignore facts.) Seriously dude I don't know who you think you're dealing with. Your fanaticism against Eli has you all confused. \\ "Hmm, the fact that i don't bother creating criteria,under the assumption, that i don't know what a fanatic is, proves that I am a fanatic. HMMMM. Does that really make sense to you?" Read that back to yourself and perhaps try harder next time. I'll just say that you labeling me and then refusing to be specific is exactly what Eli haters are all about. Non-descript, bs arguments designed to waste everyones time. Actually you bring up a good point. Why aren't I seeing it from your side? I actually do. Call me a sucker for trying to convince the other side. Let me reiterate what I said about Ben. Ben WAS clearly better then Eli because Eli was not efficient, accurate, and consistent. Simple. I brought up QB rating, saying many times that it was flawed as was all ratings, but it was a decent INDICATOR. but only as a response to people asking me to prove it. Well, it was a decent indicator. It was not THE reason. What stats did you show that Eli was consistent. I've proved you how wrong you were every time in your use of stats. Want to talk total TDs? Yards? Ben has had 600-700 less attempts. Heh. Who labeled who first? Who is the one that is overly sensitive to not only the media, but what other Giant fans are saying?</P>


I posted Eli's year to year passer rating which has been highly consistent. Actaully all of his numbers are more or less consistent and I posted those as well.</P>

JMFP2
02-10-2012, 06:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U0viaAqouA&amp;feature=related

gumby742
02-10-2012, 08:57 PM
I posted Eli's year to year passer rating which has been highly consistent.* Actaully all of his numbers are more or less consistent and I posted those as well.</P>

Actually, you're also correct about consistency. But, our discussions were usually in the context of how he was a good/great QB. His passer rating consistently fluctuated between high 70's and low to mid 80s. Of course, there were a couple exceptions, but as a whole those were his consistent ratings. Not good numbers . However, they were consistent. It just wasn't applicable to the point of the discussion.

But look, I'm tired of beating this to death. You're going to believe Eli is the greatest and I'm always going to be more negative and call people out when they use stats wrong. I'm also going to bring it up when there is a double standard.

Unfortunately, that's going to come across as hating Eli. So be it.

At the end of the day, we're both freaking crazy excited at winning the SB and that Eli is playing out of his mind.

rebelfan1966
02-10-2012, 09:03 PM
haha they are adding a <font size="6">M</font>anning wing Big B

n<font size="6">O</font>w i'm n<font size="6">O</font>t going to mention any names.but, I see a few poste<font size="6">R</font>s who don't agr<font size="6">E</font>e wit<font size="6">H</font> two rings and your in debat<font size="6">E</font>, but once did <font size="6">A</font>fter* big ben won his secon<font size="6">D</font>

again, i won't mention anybody's name
</p>


I'm so proud right now.* Its like watching my son (dimwitted of course but still....)* graduate from college after only 7 years in school.</p>


Matt.....<font size="4">I could cry</font>...but I won't.</p>


All those years riding the short bus and look at you now.</p>

hahaha


I am confused now.... are you saying if Eli has two sexual assault charges filed against him from different women..... it improves his chances of getting in the HOF?

yatitle
02-10-2012, 09:11 PM
haha they are adding a <font size="6">M</font>anning wing Big B

n<font size="6">O</font>w i'm n<font size="6">O</font>t going to mention any names.but, I see a few poste<font size="6">R</font>s who don't agr<font size="6">E</font>e wit<font size="6">H</font> two rings and your in debat<font size="6">E</font>, but once did <font size="6">A</font>fter* big ben won his secon<font size="6">D</font>

again, i won't mention anybody's name


Gotta love these boards. Eli just won his 2nd SB ( and SB MVP but I don't want anyone telling me how Tuck got robbed) in 5 seasons for our beloved team and we have 6 pages arguing about whether our QB was better than Jim Plunkett because Eli has never been the NFL comeback player of the year.

Democrats and Republicans have NOTHING on the homers and the haters.

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 09:21 PM
haha they are adding a <FONT size=6>M</FONT>anning wing Big B

n<FONT size=6>O</FONT>w i'm n<FONT size=6>O</FONT>t going to mention any names.but, I see a few poste<FONT size=6>R</FONT>s who don't agr<FONT size=6>E</FONT>e wit<FONT size=6>H</FONT> two rings and your in debat<FONT size=6>E</FONT>, but once did <FONT size=6>A</FONT>fter big ben won his secon<FONT size=6>D</FONT>

again, i won't mention anybody's name
Gotta love these boards. Eli just won his 2nd SB ( and SB MVP but I don't want anyone telling me how Tuck got robbed) in 5 seasons for our beloved team and we have 6 pages arguing about whether our QB was better than Jim Plunkett because Eli has never been the NFL comeback player of the year. Democrats and Republicans have NOTHING on the homers and the haters.</P>


No one is saying that Jim Plunkett is as good as Eli Manning. I am simply defending Jim Plunkett because I saw what he went through and what he overcame.</P>


It seemed that some here were mocking Plunkett and I had to chime in. Thats all.</P>

yatitle
02-10-2012, 09:25 PM
haha they are adding a <FONT size=6>M</FONT>anning wing Big B

n<FONT size=6>O</FONT>w i'm n<FONT size=6>O</FONT>t going to mention any names.but, I see a few poste<FONT size=6>R</FONT>s who don't agr<FONT size=6>E</FONT>e wit<FONT size=6>H</FONT> two rings and your in debat<FONT size=6>E</FONT>, but once did <FONT size=6>A</FONT>fter* big ben won his secon<FONT size=6>D</FONT>

again, i won't mention anybody's name
Gotta love these boards. Eli just won his 2nd SB ( and SB MVP but I don't want anyone telling me how Tuck got robbed) in 5 seasons for our beloved team and we have 6 pages arguing about whether our QB was better than Jim Plunkett because Eli has never been the NFL comeback player of the year. Democrats and Republicans have NOTHING on the homers and the haters.</P>


No one is saying that Jim Plunkett is as good as Eli Manning.* I am simply defending Jim Plunkett because I saw what he went through and what he overcame.</P>


It seemed that some here were mocking Plunkett and I had to chime in.* Thats all.</P>

Not denigrating Jim Plunkett, if anything Tom Flores deserves some love for winning 2 SBs but is NEVER mentioned in the HOF conversation. Maybe its because he didn't kiss the media's behind and invent football like Fatty the Tuna.

burier
02-13-2012, 12:51 PM
I posted Eli's year to year passer rating which has been highly consistent.* Actaully all of his numbers are more or less consistent and I posted those as well.</P>

Actually, you're also correct about consistency. But, our discussions were usually in the context of how he was a good/great QB. His passer rating consistently fluctuated between high 70's and low to mid 80s. Of course, there were a couple exceptions, but as a whole those were his consistent ratings. Not good numbers . However, they were consistent. It just wasn't applicable to the point of the discussion.

But look, I'm tired of beating this to death. You're going to believe Eli is the greatest and I'm always going to be more negative and call people out when they use stats wrong. I'm also going to bring it up when there is a double standard.

Unfortunately, that's going to come across as hating Eli. So be it.

At the end of the day, we're both freaking crazy excited at winning the SB and that Eli is playing out of his mind.

Agree 100 percent on the final point.