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View Full Version : Kurt Warner is over-rated.



NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 01:31 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York.

Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you.

Rudyy
02-09-2012, 01:32 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York.

Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you. I don't think there was anything wrong with what he said.

bklyn1028
02-09-2012, 01:34 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York.

Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you.

You took out of context what he said about Eli not being a lock NOW,....the key word is now. And he's right. Eli is just now coming into himself. He had a great year, and yes 2 superbowls, not many QBs can say that. But warner meant he isn't a lock right this second. He doesn't have to win more SBs to get in, but now be consistent with is play. Meaning he can't throw another 25 ints next year. He didn't knock the kid, just made a factual statement in his opinion.

NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 01:34 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York.

Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you. I don't think there was anything wrong with what he said.
He said Eli is not consistent enough, this coming from who plain SUCKED in New York? Warner has no business criticizing Eli's consistency.

Rudyy
02-09-2012, 01:37 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York.

Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you. I don't think there was anything wrong with what he said.
He said Eli is not consistent enough, this coming from who plain SUCKED in New York? Warner has no business criticizing Eli's consistency. But it's true, Eli isn't consistent. He's not saying there is no say he'll my get into the hall of fame, but he needs to produce consistent numbers.

burier
02-09-2012, 01:40 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York.

Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you. I don't think there was anything wrong with what he said.
He said Eli is not consistent enough, this coming from who plain SUCKED in New York? Warner has no business criticizing Eli's consistency. But it's true, Eli isn't consistent. He's not saying there is no say he'll my get into the hall of fame, but he needs to produce consistent numbers.

You may want to take a look at Eli's numbers season to season. He's more consistent than you think...

or have been told???

ELIteManning
02-09-2012, 02:08 PM
My only issue with what Kurt Warner had to say is...who is he to talk? The guy had 6 productive seasons in the nfl. Eli will have met or surpassed every stat warner has posted. Personally, I do not think warner even belongs in a HOF discussion himself after being productive for such a small period of time. Had he played and produced for another 4+ years then yea I get it. But by no means do I hear Kurt Warner's name and think oh man that guy was one of the best qbs to ever play the game. that is my issue with kurt saying what he said.

NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 02:14 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York.

Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you. I don't think there was anything wrong with what he said.
He said Eli is not consistent enough, this coming from who plain SUCKED in New York? Warner has no business criticizing Eli's consistency. But it's true, Eli isn't consistent. He's not saying there is no say he'll my get into the hall of fame, but he needs to produce consistent numbers.
Warner must be referring to last year's INT numbers, well was all of it Eli's fault? No, lot of those passes bounced off the receivers. Was Eli's production numbers bad? Not at all, Eli still won 10 games last season, I just don't see the consistency issue nonsense. 2 titles in 5 years seem very consistent to me.

Tommy_Ribs
02-09-2012, 02:16 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers. That does not get you into the Hall of Fame. That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing. If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB. If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 02:21 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers.* That does not get you into the Hall of Fame.* That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing.* If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB.* If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

bflo23
02-09-2012, 02:23 PM
Hey Kurt.... Do you want to talk about consistency? Lets look at your mid career.

2002...... 0-6 record, 1431 passing yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 67 QB rating
2003...... 0-1 record, 365 passing yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72 QB rating
2004...... 5-4 record, 2054 passing yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86 QB rating
2005...... 2-5 record, 2713 passing yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 85 QB rating
2006...... 1-4 record, 1377 passing yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs......

The list goes on and on. Is that the consistency of a hall of fame QB?

Rudyy
02-09-2012, 02:27 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers.* That does not get you into the Hall of Fame.* That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing.* If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB.* If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.
this.

Tommy_Ribs
02-09-2012, 02:29 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers. That does not get you into the Hall of Fame. That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing. If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB. If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.

rebelfan1966
02-09-2012, 02:30 PM
I tend to think Kurt intentionally forgot to mention all of Eli's other attributes.... he was too busy blasting him over the inconsistency. There is more to Eli's body of work than his two SBMVPS.

burier
02-09-2012, 02:33 PM
And Warner can cut it out with this whole "Im just stating the facts" Routine.

This clown has done 100 interviews since the Superbowl about how Eli shouldn't be in the HOF.

overrated and soft. Needed to have the best player in the league at a skill position to even get close to busting a grape.

NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 02:36 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers.* That does not get you into the Hall of Fame.* That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing.* If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB.* If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.

Warner is a good QB in his comfort zone, but he's hardly consistent himself. He's had a stretch of seasons that were just below-average numbers. Blaming Martz is just a weak excuse.

giantsfan420
02-09-2012, 02:43 PM
Hey Kurt.... Do you want to talk about consistency? Lets look at your mid career.

2002...... 0-6 record, 1431 passing yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 67 QB rating
2003...... 0-1 record, 365 passing yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72 QB rating
2004...... 5-4 record, 2054 passing yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86 QB rating
2005...... 2-5 record, 2713 passing yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 85 QB rating
2006...... 1-4 record, 1377 passing yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs......

The list goes on and on. Is that the consistency of a hall of fame QB?




exactly. the people who are saying warner is this amazing qb and that eli needs to do more are not applying the same standards to both qbs.

warner also had marshall faulk(HOF), torry holt(HOF), and issac bruce IN A DOME W A FAST TRACK. that only got ONE sb??

its completely hypocratic of warner to say eli needs to do more to be in the HOF, he's basically saying he(warner) doesnt deserve the HOF.

it goes beyond just win and loss, its how the wins occurred. Warner has a feel good story, and if he does make the HOF, it will be along the lines of how Namath made it. "Former bag boy gets a shot in the NFL at age 31 and has a cinderella run"...granted warner was much better statistically, but still, that whole bag boy thing is going to be a factor in him going to the HOF if he ever gets in.

Eli didnt "just win 2 SB MVP", he did it in NY where other QBs are eaten alive, he did it vs an 18-0 pats team that obliterated everyone else, then HE DID IT AGAIN. oh, and BOTH were on amazing individual 4th quarter heroics. The younger brother of one of the all time greats and son of archie manning, eli emerged from the enormous shadow to create his own legacy.

Warner doesnt vote on the HOF entrees. Lombardi does, its sports writers who do the voting. thats why those off the field things play a factor in it. Lombardi is right when he says Eli is a lock right now. he is its just how it works. every qb, and there was only 4 before eli, to win 2 sb mvps is going or in the HOF. That changes for Eli somehow? Nah.

Not to mention, if eli plays at the level he did for 08, 09 and last season, heck even the 25 int year, eli will be top 10 in almost every passer category of all time. if he can have a couple seasons of just ridic stats (something he doesnt put emphasis on "all i care about is winning games for the NY giants and helping the team win championships") eli will be top 5 in a lot of all time categories. plus the iron man streak. Favre leads the nfl all time in ints, does he not get into canton bc of that?

although, warner did recant on the nfl network last night he tried to back peddle and said he only meant it that as of right now eli isn't a hof lock, well duh he's going to play for 5-10 more years.

like simms, i believe their is a jealousy issue and a lil bit of a bitterness that some one they thought wouldnt, IS eclipsing their acheivements and then some. no one wants to be passed by especially competitive nfl players. but it is what it is, and i take lombardis opinion on the matter way before id take warners

NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 02:50 PM
Hey Kurt.... Do you want to talk about consistency? Lets look at your mid career.

2002...... 0-6 record, 1431 passing yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 67 QB rating
2003...... 0-1 record, 365 passing yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72 QB rating
2004...... 5-4 record, 2054 passing yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86 QB rating
2005...... 2-5 record, 2713 passing yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 85 QB rating
2006...... 1-4 record, 1377 passing yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs......

The list goes on and on. Is that the consistency of a hall of fame QB?




exactly. the people who are saying warner is this amazing qb and that eli needs to do more are not applying the same standards to both qbs.

warner also had marshall faulk(HOF), torry holt(HOF), and issac bruce IN A DOME W A FAST TRACK. that only got ONE sb??

its completely hypocratic of warner to say eli needs to do more to be in the HOF, he's basically saying he(warner) doesnt deserve the HOF.

it goes beyond just win and loss, its how the wins occurred. Warner has a feel good story, and if he does make the HOF, it will be along the lines of how Namath made it. "Former bag boy gets a shot in the NFL at age 31 and has a cinderella run"...granted warner was much better statistically, but still, that whole bag boy thing is going to be a factor in him going to the HOF if he ever gets in.

Eli didnt "just win 2 SB MVP", he did it in NY where other QBs are eaten alive, he did it vs an 18-0 pats team that obliterated everyone else, then HE DID IT AGAIN. oh, and BOTH were on amazing individual 4th quarter heroics. The younger brother of one of the all time greats and son of archie manning, eli emerged from the enormous shadow to create his own legacy.

Warner doesnt vote on the HOF entrees. Lombardi does, its sports writers who do the voting. thats why those off the field things play a factor in it. Lombardi is right when he says Eli is a lock right now. he is its just how it works. every qb, and there was only 4 before eli, to win 2 sb mvps is going or in the HOF. That changes for Eli somehow? Nah.

Not to mention, if eli plays at the level he did for 08, 09 and last season, heck even the 25 int year, eli will be top 10 in almost every passer category of all time. if he can have a couple seasons of just ridic stats (something he doesnt put emphasis on "all i care about is winning games for the NY giants and helping the team win championships") eli will be top 5 in a lot of all time categories. plus the iron man streak. Favre leads the nfl all time in ints, does he not get into canton bc of that?

although, warner did recant on the nfl network last night he tried to back peddle and said he only meant it that as of right now eli isn't a hof lock, well duh he's going to play for 5-10 more years.

like simms, i believe their is a jealousy issue and a lil bit of a bitterness that some one they thought wouldnt, IS eclipsing their acheivements and then some. no one wants to be passed by especially competitive nfl players. but it is what it is, and i take lombardis opinion on the matter way before id take warners
Totally agree, it just sounded like Warner was being jealous, and that just rubbed me the wrong way. He could've said it in a way that is more positive than negative.

Tommy_Ribs
02-09-2012, 03:27 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers. That does not get you into the Hall of Fame. That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing. If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB. If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.

Warner is a good QB in his comfort zone, but he's hardly consistent himself. He's had a stretch of seasons that were just below-average numbers. Blaming Martz is just a weak excuse.

Weak excuse?

B/c of Martz Kurt got lord knows how many concussions, and a right thumb that was almost unusable for 2-3 seasons.

It took Kurt two years to get his thumb/hand right, and when it did he started looking like the QB that played at a High Level in St Louis.

I understand we want to protect Eli, and Eli is our guy, because he is. But Kurt Warner was hell of a QB in his own right, and he was not bashing Eli, or taking anything away from him. He was offering legitimate analysis of where Eli is right now.

You need to separate what Kurt said from how good a player he was, because they are two separate things.

I stated it before, and I'll state it again, he is a brilliant a passer as I have ever seen. When healthy - a great QB.

nygfanmaybe
02-09-2012, 03:34 PM
Do you people realize that this argument has gone from "Is Eli one of the top 100 players in the league?" to "Is Eli HOF material?"

In order for this to happen, there had to be a lot of people way off base either then or now. I wonder which one it is? I think that is what all the haters are hanging on to.

Maybe...just maybe...their day to say "I told you so" just might still happen. I do believe there are still people out there waiting for him to become the bust they still think he is.

NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 03:42 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers.* That does not get you into the Hall of Fame.* That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing.* If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB.* If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.

Warner is a good QB in his comfort zone, but he's hardly consistent himself. He's had a stretch of seasons that were just below-average numbers. Blaming Martz is just a weak excuse.

Weak excuse?

B/c of Martz Kurt got lord knows how many concussions, and a right thumb that was almost unusable for 2-3 seasons.

It took Kurt two years to get his thumb/hand right, and when it did he started looking like the QB that played at a High Level in St Louis.

I understand we want to protect Eli, and Eli is our guy, because he is.* But Kurt Warner was hell of a QB in his own right, and he was not bashing Eli, or taking anything away from him.* He was offering legitimate analysis of where Eli is right now.

You need to separate what Kurt said from how good a player he was, because they are two separate things.

I stated it before, and I'll state it again, he is a brilliant a passer as I have ever seen.* When healthy - a great QB.

I simply don't agree with Warner's opinion that Eli is inconsistent, Eli's been a winning QB every season except his first. If anything Eli is one of the most consistent QB out there, he never misses a game, he's durable, he always puts his team in a situation to win games more times than not, he's almost always clutch at crunch time, I just don't see this Eli is inconsistent nonsense that Warner is preaching. So if we go by Warner's standards of consistency whatever it may be, then I have no choice but to say that Warner is even less deserving of going to HOF because he was far less consistent than Eli ever was.

And sorry but I just don't regard indoors only QB to be "brilliant" in any way.

ru_gmen55
02-09-2012, 03:44 PM
He's a borderline HOFer. In his defense he wasn't comparing himself with Eli, just saying Eli isn't there YET, which I agree with...the dude only played 8 seasons so far...let's let his career play out in full. Warner was a very good QB, and he's a great man off the football field as well. He didn't say anything wrong as far as I Cana, concerned. The fact that the HOF question has popped up this early is a bit ridiculous.

burier
02-09-2012, 03:47 PM
He's a borderline HOFer. In his defense he wasn't comparing himself with Eli, just saying Eli isn't there YET, which I agree with...the dude only played 8 seasons so far...let's let his career play out in full. Warner was a very good QB, and he's a great man off the football field as well. He didn't say anything wrong as far as I Cana, concerned. The fact that the HOF question has popped up this early is a bit ridiculous.

he many not have wanted to compare himself but after his tirade about Eli not being HOFer he was asked if he thought HE was a HOFer and he said yes.

So..

He deserves what he's got comming to him.
Which is people will start to talk about how he played in door, he played with a HOFer....he wasn't durable, he wasn't consistent etc etc etc

Tommy_Ribs
02-09-2012, 03:51 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers. That does not get you into the Hall of Fame. That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing. If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB. If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.

Warner is a good QB in his comfort zone, but he's hardly consistent himself. He's had a stretch of seasons that were just below-average numbers. Blaming Martz is just a weak excuse.

Weak excuse?

B/c of Martz Kurt got lord knows how many concussions, and a right thumb that was almost unusable for 2-3 seasons.

It took Kurt two years to get his thumb/hand right, and when it did he started looking like the QB that played at a High Level in St Louis.

I understand we want to protect Eli, and Eli is our guy, because he is. But Kurt Warner was hell of a QB in his own right, and he was not bashing Eli, or taking anything away from him. He was offering legitimate analysis of where Eli is right now.

You need to separate what Kurt said from how good a player he was, because they are two separate things.

I stated it before, and I'll state it again, he is a brilliant a passer as I have ever seen. When healthy - a great QB.

I simply don't agree with Warner's opinion that Eli is inconsistent, Eli's been a winning QB every season except his first. If anything Eli is one of the most consistent QB out there, he never misses a game, he's durable, he always puts his team in a situation to win games more times than not, he's almost always clutch at crunch time, I just don't see this Eli is inconsistent nonsense that Warner is preaching. So if we go by Warner's standards of consistency whatever it may be, then I have no choice but to say that Warner is even less deserving of going to HOF because he was far less consistent than Eli ever was.

And sorry but I just don't regard indoors only QB to be "brilliant" in any way.

Here is the flaw in your argument:
Kurt was not comparing himself to Eli. You are doing that.

Kurt was making an observation about Eli Manning, and his legacy as it stands right now. Kurt's argument was that in his career Eli was too up and down to be a top QB (Which is a correct analysis).

Where you and I are probably in agreement, is that if Eli plays through the rest of his prime like he did in 2011, that would probably put him at a Hall of Fame level.

In terms of your assessment that Warner was not a brilliant player, I am not going to convince you that he was, so I won't bother. You probably just did not see him play enough,

Tommy_Ribs
02-09-2012, 03:56 PM
And Warner can cut it out with this whole "Im just stating the facts" Routine.

This clown has done 100 interviews since the Superbowl about how Eli shouldn't be in the HOF.

overrated and soft. Needed to have the best player in the league at a skill position to even get close to busting a grape.

So Joe Montana was garbage b/c Jerry Rice and Roger Craig 'Carried his Water'?

Terry Bradshaw was a lousy QB b/c he had Harris, Swann and Stallworth?

Sorry this doesn't make sense.

You need to separate Kurt the player, from Kurt the analyst.

It's not like he killed Eli, he said don't put him in the Hall just yet.

NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 04:02 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers.* That does not get you into the Hall of Fame.* That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing.* If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB.* If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.

Warner is a good QB in his comfort zone, but he's hardly consistent himself. He's had a stretch of seasons that were just below-average numbers. Blaming Martz is just a weak excuse.

Weak excuse?

B/c of Martz Kurt got lord knows how many concussions, and a right thumb that was almost unusable for 2-3 seasons.

It took Kurt two years to get his thumb/hand right, and when it did he started looking like the QB that played at a High Level in St Louis.

I understand we want to protect Eli, and Eli is our guy, because he is.* But Kurt Warner was hell of a QB in his own right, and he was not bashing Eli, or taking anything away from him.* He was offering legitimate analysis of where Eli is right now.

You need to separate what Kurt said from how good a player he was, because they are two separate things.

I stated it before, and I'll state it again, he is a brilliant a passer as I have ever seen.* When healthy - a great QB.

I simply don't agree with Warner's opinion that Eli is inconsistent, Eli's been a winning QB every season except his first. If anything Eli is one of the most consistent QB out there, he never misses a game, he's durable, he always puts his team in a situation to win games more times than not, he's almost always clutch at crunch time, I just don't see this Eli is inconsistent nonsense that Warner is preaching. So if we go by Warner's standards of consistency whatever it may be, then I have no choice but to say that Warner is even less deserving of going to HOF because he was far less consistent than Eli ever was.

And sorry but I just don't regard indoors only QB to be "brilliant" in any way.

Here is the flaw in your argument:
Kurt was not comparing himself to Eli.* You are doing that.

Kurt was making an observation about Eli* Manning, and his legacy as it stands right now.* Kurt's argument was that in his career Eli was too up and down to be a top QB (Which is a correct analysis).

Where you and I are probably in agreement, is that if Eli plays through the rest of his prime like he did in 2011, that would probably put him at a Hall of Fame level.

In terms of your assessment that Warner was not a brilliant player, I am not going to convince you that he was, so I won't bother.* You probably just did not see him play enough,

Err, no I'm not using Warner's stats against Eli to discredit his opinion, I'm saying his description of inconsistency that he's applying to Eli is just wrong. The fact that Warner was never as consistent than Eli is just an extra rub.

And if Warner regards consistency so highly that Eli doesn't belong in HOF, then why does he think he belongs? Does that make sense to you? He's clearly jealous of Eli.

gmen46
02-09-2012, 04:23 PM
Hey Kurt.... Do you want to talk about consistency? Lets look at your mid career.

2002...... 0-6 record, 1431 passing yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 67 QB rating
2003...... 0-1 record, 365 passing yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72 QB rating
2004...... 5-4 record, 2054 passing yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86 QB rating
2005...... 2-5 record, 2713 passing yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 85 QB rating
2006...... 1-4 record, 1377 passing yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs......

The list goes on and on. Is that the consistency of a hall of fame QB?




exactly. the people who are saying warner is this amazing qb and that eli needs to do more are not applying the same standards to both qbs.

warner also had marshall faulk(HOF), torry holt(HOF), and issac bruce IN A DOME W A FAST TRACK. that only got ONE sb??

its completely hypocratic of warner to say eli needs to do more to be in the HOF, he's basically saying he(warner) doesnt deserve the HOF.

it goes beyond just win and loss, its how the wins occurred. Warner has a feel good story, and if he does make the HOF, it will be along the lines of how Namath made it. "Former bag boy gets a shot in the NFL at age 31 and has a cinderella run"...granted warner was much better statistically, but still, that whole bag boy thing is going to be a factor in him going to the HOF if he ever gets in.

Eli didnt "just win 2 SB MVP", he did it in NY where other QBs are eaten alive, he did it vs an 18-0 pats team that obliterated everyone else, then HE DID IT AGAIN. oh, and BOTH were on amazing individual 4th quarter heroics. The younger brother of one of the all time greats and son of archie manning, eli emerged from the enormous shadow to create his own legacy.

Warner doesnt vote on the HOF entrees. Lombardi does, its sports writers who do the voting. thats why those off the field things play a factor in it. Lombardi is right when he says Eli is a lock right now. he is its just how it works. every qb, and there was only 4 before eli, to win 2 sb mvps is going or in the HOF. That changes for Eli somehow? Nah.

Not to mention, if eli plays at the level he did for 08, 09 and last season, heck even the 25 int year, eli will be top 10 in almost every passer category of all time. if he can have a couple seasons of just ridic stats (something he doesnt put emphasis on "all i care about is winning games for the NY giants and helping the team win championships") eli will be top 5 in a lot of all time categories. plus the iron man streak. Favre leads the nfl all time in ints, does he not get into canton bc of that?

although, warner did recant on the nfl network last night he tried to back peddle and said he only meant it that as of right now eli isn't a hof lock, well duh he's going to play for 5-10 more years.

like simms, i believe their is a jealousy issue and a lil bit of a bitterness that some one they thought wouldnt, IS eclipsing their acheivements and then some. no one wants to be passed by especially competitive nfl players. but it is what it is, and i take lombardis opinion on the matter way before id take warners

Completely agree.

What I find interesting about the debate Lombardi and Warner had on NFL Network about this is that it was a microcosm of the 2 primary definitions that most opposing viewpoints take on this issue.

Warner is obviously on the side of viewing huge stats (yards, completions, qb rating, TDs--with a SB or two thrown in as a booster-- over the course of a long career as the defining criterion for HOF candidacy. Rather strange criterion coming from Warner, sonce his candidacy, if any, will be due to a small handful of great seasons scattered among more seasons of below average, and bolstered by 3 SB appearances (with 1 win).

(Of equal interest to me is the fact that Warner--with his "Greatest Show on Turf"--was unable to defeat the Patriots led by a QB who had less than 1 year as a starter, while Eli's Giants WERE able to defeat the seasoned vet Brady who had led his team to an 18-0 season prior to the first SB contest, and were able to defeat Brady and his Patriots AGAIN, the year that Brady broke Marino's single season passing yards record.)

Lombardi represents the opposite criteria. While acknowledging that "consistent" stats over one's career is good, he puts FAR more weight on a QB's CONSISTENT ability to step up big time in big time games--season saving games, game winning drives, playing one's best games in post season and championship games, etc-- as a more significant criterion for HOF consideration.

And, using that criterion, Lombardi is willing to place Eli among HOF greats NOW, not 5 years from now with Brees-like stats.

I'm with Lombardi as to which attributes are greater in a QB's career.

I would ask all Giants fans this one question--

would Simms be in the HOF by now had he played in Super Bowl XXV, given the rest of his career as it stands?

I believe how each of us answers that question would go a long way towards determining how each of us views Eli at this point in his career.

GiantWarfare
02-09-2012, 04:36 PM
I just find it amusing that Kurt's stance against Eli getting into the HOF also hurts his case...lol

ru_gmen55
02-09-2012, 04:54 PM
He's a borderline HOFer. In his defense he wasn't comparing himself with Eli, just saying Eli isn't there YET, which I agree with...the dude only played 8 seasons so far...let's let his career play out in full. Warner was a very good QB, and he's a great man off the football field as well. He didn't say anything wrong as far as I Cana, concerned. The fact that the HOF question has popped up this early is a bit ridiculous.

he many not have wanted to compare himself but after his tirade about Eli not being HOFer he was asked if he thought HE was a HOFer and he said yes.

So..

He deserves what he's got comming to him.
Which is people will start to talk about how he played in door, he played with a HOFer....he wasn't durable, he wasn't consistent etc etc etc

Did he actually respond by calling himself a HOFer? That's kinda weird...I mean, he's borderline himself...and winning is a large part of his case...ya know, taking two different franchises to title games. I guess that somewhat shapes my overall view of it, but eh...he still made fair points. Eli isn't there yet, but there's no reason to think that he won't be a few seasons from now.

burier
02-09-2012, 05:00 PM
And Warner can cut it out with this whole "Im just stating the facts" Routine.

This clown has done 100 interviews since the Superbowl about how Eli shouldn't be in the HOF.

overrated and soft. Needed to have the best player in the league at a skill position to even get close to busting a grape.

So Joe Montana was garbage b/c Jerry Rice and Roger Craig 'Carried his Water'?

Terry Bradshaw was a lousy QB b/c he had Harris, Swann and Stallworth?

Sorry this doesn't make sense.

You need to separate Kurt the player, from Kurt the analyst.

It's not like he killed Eli, he said don't put him in the Hall just yet.


Kurt Warner is not in a conversation with either Montana or Bradshaw...Especially in Montana's case since Montana finished his career in KC where he was still a dominant QB so I see the point your trying to make but it doesn't really apply here.

I never thought much of Kurt Warner the player. I thought he was a product of the system and this is evidenced by the lack of drop off in production when he left the team....they just plugged in a guy who's name escapes me right now and kept it moving.

I'm more upset with the number of times he's said it than what he actually said.

he's done multiple interviews and segments to make this point about Eli. Its like he's trying to collect signatures for a "Keep Eli Out Of The Hall" petition and its annoying

appletree943
02-09-2012, 05:43 PM
because he didnt say what you wanted to here your gona hate on Kurt Warner now?

injurys killed the middle part of Warners career saying because he was *inconsistent* is stupid

NYBlue10
02-09-2012, 06:08 PM
because he didnt say what you wanted to here your gona hate on Kurt Warner now?

injurys killed the middle part* of Warners career saying because he was *inconsistent* is stupid



Yeah I'm going to hate Warner if he disses Eli with baseless claims.

So you want to excuse Warner with injuries, but Eli can't? Eli played hurt also, with partially separated shoulder, and that time where he hurt his foot. Eli still played more consistent than Warner. Bang.

bflo23
02-09-2012, 06:14 PM
because he didnt say what you wanted to here your gona hate on Kurt Warner now?

injurys killed the middle part of Warners career saying because he was *inconsistent* is stupid




If he is on the field, all injury excuses are out the window. When he plays terrible and has 0-6 record with 3 TDs and 11 INTs, it is about his injuries? It doesn't work that way. You sound like a Patriot fan. I know you are using an injury excuse for Michael Vick's terrible season.

giantsfan420
02-09-2012, 06:45 PM
not to mention we had prob the biggest injury in the history of the league when plex shot himself in the leg.

that set the offense and eli back a couple of years.

Harooni
02-09-2012, 06:53 PM
This is nothing new. Anyone slightly hinting that Eli is not a god. Is then insulted and called a hater.

Morehead State
02-09-2012, 07:06 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York. Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you.</P>


So Warner dares to suggest that Eli hasn't earned his spot in the Hall of Fame yet, and you all attack him like a bunch of wild dogs.</P>


A little perspective people.</P>

Morehead State
02-09-2012, 07:09 PM
not to mention we had prob the biggest injury in the history of the league when plex shot himself in the leg. that set the offense and eli back a couple of years.</P>


This is an incredibly stupid post from a smart poster.</P>


I really don't get it.</P>


The guy was having a horrible year, we were 3-0 without him, all huge offensive performances (Seattle, Arizona, Washington) and its the biggest injury in the history of the league.</P>


Ask Colts fans if they agree.</P>

Harooni
02-09-2012, 07:13 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York. Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you.</P>


So Warner dares to suggest that Eli hasn't earned his spot in the Hall of Fame yet, and you all attack him like a bunch of wild dogs.</P>


A little perspective people.</P> sensitive bunch. I blame hormones in the food and bad diets.

GmenFan1980
02-09-2012, 07:21 PM
Kurt Warner is over-rated? tell me something I don't know. He was still a very good QB though

pino
02-09-2012, 07:34 PM
Kurt is borderline HOF himself. That's just my opinion, just like he is free for his own opinion.

That said, I would also like to see more from Eli as I think he is "borderline" himself right now.

But don't worry, Eli will make the HOF eventually and this will be a meaningless debate. We all know what Eli is capable of. It is not a fluke.

pino
02-09-2012, 07:37 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York. Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you.</P>


So Warner dares to suggest that Eli hasn't earned his spot in the Hall of Fame yet, and you all attack him like a bunch of wild dogs.</P>


A little perspective people.</P>

I wouldn't disagree with Kurt, but I think it's a little strange that the media would ask his opinion. Why don't they ask another HOFer?

byron
02-09-2012, 07:58 PM
and a wussy ....

Voldamort
02-09-2012, 08:00 PM
Right on the money,arena league type of guy dome boy.

NYSPORTS
02-09-2012, 10:42 PM
Kurt Warner, IMO, summed up what a phoney he was against the Jets after he almost got Boldin killed.

If you recall, Warner didn't even compete that entire game. The Jets were annihilating 34-0 at the half b/c Warner didn't show up.

Late, and with the Jets backing off, Mr. Prayer Warner almost gets Boldin killed.

Rather than be concerned about almost getting his receiver killed in an absolutley meanining less time of the game b/c Warner didn't show up, we see Mr. Prayer launch a ball in the endzone to pad his stats while Boldin is on his way to the hospital.

Summed up

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 09:21 AM
Kurt Warner, IMO, summed up what a phoney he was against the Jets after he almost got Boldin killed. If you recall, Warner didn't even compete that entire game. The Jets were annihilating 34-0 at the half b/c Warner didn't show up. Late, and with the Jets backing off, Mr. Prayer Warner almost gets Boldin killed. Rather than be concerned about almost getting his receiver killed in an absolutley meanining less time of the game b/c Warner didn't show up, we see Mr. Prayer launch a ball in the endzone to pad his stats while Boldin is on his way to the hospital. Summed up</P>


Its amazing how, when someone makes a statement that we disagree with, we absolutely attack everything about him.</P>


"He threw a bad pass against the Jets 5 years ago...therefore he doesn't know anything about football or what it takes to get into the Hall of Fame"</P>


Brilliant!</P>

Diamondring
02-10-2012, 09:25 AM
because he didnt say what you wanted to here your gona hate on Kurt Warner now?

injurys killed the middle part* of Warners career saying because he was *inconsistent* is stupid


You hate Eli anyways so what you have to say about this?

NYSPORTS
02-10-2012, 09:29 AM
Kurt Warner, IMO, summed up what a phoney he was against the Jets after he almost got Boldin killed. If you recall, Warner didn't even compete that entire game. The Jets were annihilating 34-0 at the half b/c Warner didn't show up. Late, and with the Jets backing off, Mr. Prayer Warner almost gets Boldin killed. Rather than be concerned about almost getting his receiver killed in an absolutley meanining less time of the game b/c Warner didn't show up, we see Mr. Prayer launch a ball in the endzone to pad his stats while Boldin is on his way to the hospital. Summed up</P>


Its amazing how, when someone makes a statement that we disagree with, we absolutely attack everything about him.</P>


"He threw a bad pass against the Jets 5 years ago...therefore he doesn't know anything about football or what it takes to get into the Hall of Fame"</P>


Brilliant!</P>

No, No, No - I made mention of Warner back when this scenerio occurred. This isn't something I grabbed out of mid air and it nothing to do with a bad pass against the Jets.

It's not the pass, it's the reaction to Boldin's injury.

Read it again. The guy didn't show up, sulked and didn't even compete in the first half as the Jets took a 34-0 lead. The same guy, who is always leading prayer, doesn't even bother to take a knee while others are praying and Boldin is down in the endzone. The same guy who didn't even compete in the first half, pads his stats by launching a ball into the endzone.

He cared about his stats and felt it was a selfish act. This has nothing to do with his comments this week. I've said this for years.

Now, these comments, they appear a bit selfish as did his actions after the Boldin injury years ago.

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 09:34 AM
Kurt Warner, IMO, summed up what a phoney he was against the Jets after he almost got Boldin killed. If you recall, Warner didn't even compete that entire game. The Jets were annihilating 34-0 at the half b/c Warner didn't show up. Late, and with the Jets backing off, Mr. Prayer Warner almost gets Boldin killed. Rather than be concerned about almost getting his receiver killed in an absolutley meanining less time of the game b/c Warner didn't show up, we see Mr. Prayer launch a ball in the endzone to pad his stats while Boldin is on his way to the hospital. Summed up</P>


Its amazing how, when someone makes a statement that we disagree with, we absolutely attack everything about him.</P>


"He threw a bad pass against the Jets 5 years ago...therefore he doesn't know anything about football or what it takes to get into the Hall of Fame"</P>


Brilliant!</P>


No, No, No - I made mention of Warner back when this scenerio occurred. This isn't something I grabbed out of mid air and it nothing to do with a bad pass against the Jets. It's not the pass, it's the reaction to Boldin's injury. Read it again. The guy didn't show up, sulked and didn't even compete in the first half as the Jets took a 34-0 lead. The same guy, who is always leading prayer, doesn't even bother to take a knee while others are praying and Boldin is down in the endzone. The same guy who didn't even compete in the first half, pads his stats by launching a ball into the endzone. He cared about his stats and felt it was a selfish act. This has nothing to do with his comments this week. I've said this for years. Now, these comments, they appear a bit selfish as did his actions after the Boldin injury years ago.</P>


As I remembered he was so distraught over the play, he considered retiring in the middle of the season. So your point about his not caring is rediculous. </P>


And I'm not sure what your point was about padding his stats. Is he supposed to stop trying when his team is way behind? By that logic didn't Eli pad his stats vs. NO this year?</P>


I say no on both counts.</P>


Here's the article.</P>


http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/nfl_tracker/posts/11561</P>

Hostetler
02-10-2012, 10:28 AM
You folks need to take off the blue shaded glasses - Eli , if he were to end his career today, would be on the ballot, but would never get in, the whole body of work is considered, and EVERYONE OF YOU wanted Rivers back as little as 5 1/2 years ago.</P>


Eli has put up decent numbers for only 3 years, and regardless of how those INT's happened last year , when its time to vote him in or out, the voters will see 25 INT's, Eli needs to continue on the pace he going for 3-4 more years.</P>


</P>


Realize this folks, if rings were the standard of becoming enshrined than Haley would be in.</P>


for those of you have have no clue, Haley is the ONLY player EVER to win 5 rings</P>

JMFP2
02-10-2012, 10:36 AM
Warner is entitled to his opinion.</P>


But, I remember when he was the QB, the sack count was outrageous......and then when Eli took over, the sacks went down dramatically.</P>


Warner played inside a big living room in both St Louis and Arizona. He had Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce,Holt, Hakim..... and had Mike Martz running a pass-happyoffense.</P>


Warner, when he had protection, was an incredibly accurate passer. But for him to base his critique of Manning in part on his supporting cast.....just odd considering what Warner was working with.</P>


</P>


</P>

GameTime
02-10-2012, 10:40 AM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York. Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you.</P>


he was a very good QB who had many great moments. Cant ever take that away from him. He was benched at5-4 in favor of Eli getting experiencewhen he was with the Giants. No one will ever know if he could have "hacked" in NY.</P>


</P>

Harooni
02-10-2012, 10:52 AM
Kurt Warner, IMO, summed up what a phoney he was against the Jets after he almost got Boldin killed. If you recall, Warner didn't even compete that entire game. The Jets were annihilating 34-0 at the half b/c Warner didn't show up. Late, and with the Jets backing off, Mr. Prayer Warner almost gets Boldin killed. Rather than be concerned about almost getting his receiver killed in an absolutley meanining less time of the game b/c Warner didn't show up, we see Mr. Prayer launch a ball in the endzone to pad his stats while Boldin is on his way to the hospital. Summed up</P>


Its amazing how, when someone makes a statement that we disagree with, we absolutely attack everything about him.</P>


"He threw a bad pass against the Jets 5 years ago...therefore he doesn't know anything about football or what it takes to get into the Hall of Fame"</P>


Brilliant!</P> I wonder if they burned alll the tapes when we played the vikings during Eli years?

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 11:15 AM
Warner is entitled to his opinion.</P>


But, I remember when he was the QB, the sack count was outrageous......and then when Eli took over, the sacks went down dramatically.</P>


Warner played inside a big living room in both St Louis and Arizona. He had Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce,Holt, Hakim..... and had Mike Martz running a pass-happyoffense.</P>


Warner, when he had protection, was an incredibly accurate passer. But for him to base his critique of Manning in part on his supporting cast.....just odd considering what Warner was working with.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


The sacks went down almost as fast as the wins.</P>


We were 5-4with Warner and 1-6 with Eli in 2004. Lets not get too selective with our facts.</P>

Sarcasman
02-10-2012, 11:21 AM
This is a great thread idea.

NYBlue10
02-10-2012, 11:29 AM
You folks need to take off the blue shaded glasses - Eli , if he were to end his career today, would be on the ballot, but would never get in, the whole body of work is considered, and EVERYONE OF YOU wanted Rivers back as little as 5 1/2 years ago.</P>


Eli has put up decent numbers for only 3 years, and regardless of how those INT's happened last year , when its time to vote him in or out, the voters will see 25 INT's,* Eli needs to continue on the pace he going for 3-4 more years.</P>


*</P>


Realize this folks, if rings were the standard of becoming enshrined than Haley would be in.</P>


for those of you have have no clue, Haley is the ONLY player EVER to win 5 rings</P>
Calm your "I'm so intellectual and level-headed to scold you fanboys." butt down, nobody here is saying Eli is the greatest QB of all time, and I agree with Warner that Eli is not a HOFer yet, what I don't agree at all with Warner is his REASONING, therefore his whole argument just makes no sense. Inconsistency is simply not the reason why Eli shouldn't be in the HOF, it's the length of his career only. Can you get that through your pseudo-intellectual skull of yours pal?

888888
02-10-2012, 11:30 AM
check Warners stats.. Eli is going to pass him in two seasons ....maybe even next year. I wish someone would ask Warner if he thinks that he belongs in Canton.. Selfish little *****

Sarcasman
02-10-2012, 11:31 AM
Hey Kurt.... Do you want to talk about consistency? Lets look at your mid career.

2002...... 0-6 record, 1431 passing yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 67 QB rating
2003...... 0-1 record, 365 passing yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72 QB rating
2004...... 5-4 record, 2054 passing yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86 QB rating
2005...... 2-5 record, 2713 passing yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 85 QB rating
2006...... 1-4 record, 1377 passing yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs......

The list goes on and on. Is that the consistency of a hall of fame QB?




Warner is not in the HOF.

He's a potential candidate but certainly no lock.

I don't even know why we're talking about him.

Sarcasman
02-10-2012, 11:35 AM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers.* That does not get you into the Hall of Fame.* That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing.* If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB.* If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.


Agree. An absolutely tremendous QB.

Of course this simply reinforces Warner's contention that it's a very rare QB who carries a team by himself. Certainly he never did.

He had unbelievable talent around him.

Harooni
02-10-2012, 12:14 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers. That does not get you into the Hall of Fame. That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing. If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB. If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.


Agree. An absolutely tremendous QB.

Of course this simply reinforces Warner's contention that it's a very rare QB who carries a team by himself. Certainly he never did.

He had unbelievable talent around him.

yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB. oh wait...

Delicreep
02-10-2012, 12:26 PM
I would like to re-focus this "discussion" with a strange hypothetical:

If Eli and Warner were nominated to the HOF in the same year, and you could only pick one...who would you pick and why?

Sarcasman
02-10-2012, 01:22 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers.* That does not get you into the Hall of Fame.* That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing.* If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB.* If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.


Agree. An absolutely tremendous QB.

Of course this simply reinforces Warner's contention that it's a very rare QB who carries a team by himself. Certainly he never did.

He had unbelievable talent around him.

yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB.* oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

Harooni
02-10-2012, 01:25 PM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB. oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.

elismom
02-10-2012, 01:29 PM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB.* oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.


I remember the day Eli rplaced Warner

Harooni did not agree. lol

Harooni
02-10-2012, 01:30 PM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB. oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.


I remember the day Eli rplaced Warner

Harooni did not agree. lol

hell yeah i was Pissed!!! they gave up on 2004 season where we beat GB and minny. we only needed a few more wins. in hindsight it all worked out Eli getting his growing pains out of the way. but at the time i was upset.

burier
02-10-2012, 01:33 PM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB.* oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.


I remember the day Eli rplaced Warner

Harooni did not agree. lol

hell yeah i was Pissed!!!* they gave up on 2004 season where we beat GB and minny.* we only needed a few more wins.** in hindsight it all worked out Eli getting his growing pains out of the way.* but at the time i was upset.




All Warner had to do to keep his job was not **** the bed against the Cardinals. He couldn't hack it so he had to ride pine.

Harooni
02-10-2012, 01:35 PM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB. oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.


I remember the day Eli rplaced Warner

Harooni did not agree. lol

hell yeah i was Pissed!!! they gave up on 2004 season where we beat GB and minny. we only needed a few more wins. in hindsight it all worked out Eli getting his growing pains out of the way. but at the time i was upset.




All Warner had to do to keep his job was not **** the bed against the Cardinals. He couldn't hack it so he had to ride pine.
we lost by 3 points.

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 01:40 PM
I would like to re-focus this "discussion" with a strange hypothetical: If Eli and Warner were nominated to the HOF in the same year, and you could only pick one...who would you pick and why?</P>


When Eli's career is over then we can figure that out. Until then, its silly speculation.</P>


If Eli's career ended today, I'd have to say Warner. If Eli continues on the new trajectory he started this season, for several more years, then I would have to say Eli.</P>


But until we see Eli's entire career, its a moot point.</P>

nygsb42champs
02-10-2012, 01:46 PM
Warner had a short amazing career. For a few years he was at the top of the mountain.

burier
02-10-2012, 01:48 PM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB.* oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.


I remember the day Eli rplaced Warner

Harooni did not agree. lol

hell yeah i was Pissed!!!* they gave up on 2004 season where we beat GB and minny.* we only needed a few more wins.** in hindsight it all worked out Eli getting his growing pains out of the way.* but at the time i was upset.




All Warner had to do to keep his job was not **** the bed against the Cardinals. He couldn't hack it so he had to ride pine.
we lost by 3 points.


to...the...cardinals.

Delicreep
02-10-2012, 01:49 PM
I would like to re-focus this "discussion" with a strange hypothetical: If Eli and Warner were nominated to the HOF in the same year, and you could only pick one...who would you pick and why?</P>


When Eli's career is over then we can figure that out.* Until then, its silly speculation.</P>


If Eli's career ended today, I'd have to say Warner.* If Eli continues on the new trajectory he started this season, for several more years, then I would have to say Eli.</P>


But until we see Eli's entire career, its a moot point.</P>

No, no no...I am specifically saying Eli retires today.

See, in my opinion, nobody from the class of 2004 can be regarded as a HOFer at this point.

gumby742
02-10-2012, 01:51 PM
Warner was nothing but an accurate QB who threw to wide open WRs half the time. HOF? imo, no.

In addition he started his career on fire. Disappeared for a few year. then came back for a few years. Hardly a HOF performace.

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 02:20 PM
I would like to re-focus this "discussion" with a strange hypothetical: If Eli and Warner were nominated to the HOF in the same year, and you could only pick one...who would you pick and why?</P>


When Eli's career is over then we can figure that out. Until then, its silly speculation.</P>


If Eli's career ended today, I'd have to say Warner. If Eli continues on the new trajectory he started this season, for several more years, then I would have to say Eli.</P>


But until we see Eli's entire career, its a moot point.</P>


No, no no...I am specifically saying Eli retires today. See, in my opinion, nobody from the class of 2004 can be regarded as a HOFer at this point.</P>


Well I don't think Warner is quite a HOF'r, but I still think he'll make it. He's a popular guy in the league. Eli's career isn't quite there right now but I am sure over the next few years (assuming he doesn't return to 2010 Eli) given his tremendous improvement this season, he will be a HOF'r. And a well deserving one.</P>


I can't tell you how impressed I have been with his improvement this season. His pocket preseance has been off the charts.</P>

Sarcasman
02-10-2012, 02:29 PM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB.* oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.



I state clearly in this thread that I think Warner is a great QB (I believe I use the word tremendous actually). That doesn't mean that he didn't need a specific system and talent around him to flourish

The two things are not mutually exclusive in any way.

Hostetler
02-10-2012, 02:31 PM
You folks need to take off the blue shaded glasses - Eli , if he were to end his career today, would be on the ballot, but would never get in, the whole body of work is considered, and EVERYONE OF YOU wanted Rivers back as little as 5 1/2 years ago.</P>


Eli has put up decent numbers for only 3 years, and regardless of how those INT's happened last year , when its time to vote him in or out, the voters will see 25 INT's, Eli needs to continue on the pace he going for 3-4 more years.</P>


</P>


Realize this folks, if rings were the standard of becoming enshrined than Haley would be in.</P>


for those of you have have no clue, Haley is the ONLY player EVER to win 5 rings</P>


Calm your "I'm so intellectual and level-headed to scold you fanboys." butt down, nobody here is saying Eli is the greatest QB of all time, and I agree with Warner that Eli is not a HOFer yet, what I don't agree at all with Warner is his REASONING, therefore his whole argument just makes no sense. Inconsistency is simply not the reason why Eli shouldn't be in the HOF, it's the length of his career only. Can you get that through your pseudo-intellectual skull of yours pal?</P>


Oh, please excuse me for assuming that a level head, intelligent conversation, and facts were not allowed in this thread, </P>


Let me put the blue shades on - ELI IS A FIRST TIME GO HOF QB!!!!!</P>

Sarcasman
02-10-2012, 02:34 PM
You folks need to take off the blue shaded glasses - Eli , if he were to end his career today, would be on the ballot, but would never get in, the whole body of work is considered, and EVERYONE OF YOU wanted Rivers back as little as 5 1/2 years ago.</P>


Eli has put up decent numbers for only 3 years, and regardless of how those INT's happened last year , when its time to vote him in or out, the voters will see 25 INT's,* Eli needs to continue on the pace he going for 3-4 more years.</P>


*</P>


Realize this folks, if rings were the standard of becoming enshrined than Haley would be in.</P>


for those of you have have no clue, Haley is the ONLY player EVER to win 5 rings</P>


Calm your "I'm so intellectual and level-headed to scold you fanboys." butt down, nobody here is saying Eli is the greatest QB of all time, and I agree with Warner that Eli is not a HOFer yet, what I don't agree at all with Warner is his REASONING, therefore his whole argument just makes no sense. Inconsistency is simply not the reason why Eli shouldn't be in the HOF, it's the length of his career only. Can you get that through your pseudo-intellectual skull of yours pal?</P>


Oh, please excuse me for assuming that a level head*, intelligent conversation, and facts were not allowed in this thread, </P>


Link please!

Hostetler
02-10-2012, 02:42 PM
You folks need to take off the blue shaded glasses - Eli , if he were to end his career today, would be on the ballot, but would never get in, the whole body of work is considered, and EVERYONE OF YOU wanted Rivers back as little as 5 1/2 years ago.</P>


Eli has put up decent numbers for only 3 years, and regardless of how those INT's happened last year , when its time to vote him in or out, the voters will see 25 INT's, Eli needs to continue on the pace he going for 3-4 more years.</P>


</P>


Realize this folks, if rings were the standard of becoming enshrined than Haley would be in.</P>


for those of you have have no clue, Haley is the ONLY player EVER to win 5 rings</P>


Calm your "I'm so intellectual and level-headed to scold you fanboys." butt down, nobody here is saying Eli is the greatest QB of all time, and I agree with Warner that Eli is not a HOFer yet, what I don't agree at all with Warner is his REASONING, therefore his whole argument just makes no sense. Inconsistency is simply not the reason why Eli shouldn't be in the HOF, it's the length of his career only. Can you get that through your pseudo-intellectual skull of yours pal?</P>


Oh, please excuse me for assuming that a level head, intelligent conversation, and facts were not allowed in this thread, </P>


Link please!</P>


Link for Haley?? </P>

pica01
02-10-2012, 03:15 PM
Boy,Warner has alot of nerve.As a borderline hall of famer with one ring,one SB loss as a big fav and MVPs on his record,taking Ariz to the bowl and almost winning might have put him over the top.It disproved the rams system arguement.Dissing Eli here didn't make him look very good.Eli is alot like Don Mattingly concerning the hall of fame.Unless his career ends early all he has to do now is compile stats over time and he's a lock.If Eli never played another game I don't know if he's a Hall of Famer.Mattingly,however,was the best player in the game for 3 yrs and even with a shortened career belongs in the hall.Only the best of the best with shortened careers ala Koufax get in and I put Mattingly in that class.Eli's not that.But championships count.Compare Eli to Rothlisberg.2 rings each.Eli's rings have already put him in the hall discussion because he was the prime reason we won both.Not so with Ben.Or Warner.As a borderline candidate he didn't help his case here.

pica01
02-10-2012, 03:16 PM
Haley will get in eventually

JMFP2
02-10-2012, 03:18 PM
Warner is entitled to his opinion.</P>


But, I remember when he was the QB, the sack count was outrageous......and then when Eli took over, the sacks went down dramatically.</P>


Warner played inside a big living room in both St Louis and Arizona. He had Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce,Holt, Hakim..... and had Mike Martz running a pass-happyoffense.</P>


Warner, when he had protection, was an incredibly accurate passer. But for him to base his critique of Manning in part on his supporting cast.....just odd considering what Warner was working with.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


The sacks went down almost as fast as the wins.</P>


We were 5-4with Warner and 1-6 with Eli in 2004. Lets not get too selective with our facts.</P>


</P>


</P>


I'm not being selective....just making the point that Warner was a statue back there.</P>

JDE123
02-10-2012, 03:20 PM
You folks need to take off the blue shaded glasses - Eli , if he were to end his career today, would be on the ballot, but would never get in, the whole body of work is considered, and EVERYONE OF YOU wanted Rivers back as little as 5 1/2 years ago.</p>


Eli has put up decent numbers for only 3 years, and regardless of how those INT's happened last year , when its time to vote him in or out, the voters will see 25 INT's, Eli needs to continue on the pace he going for 3-4 more years.</p>


</p>


Realize this folks, if rings were the standard of becoming enshrined than Haley would be in.</p>


for those of you have have no clue, Haley is the ONLY player EVER to win 5 rings</p>


Calm your "I'm so intellectual and level-headed to scold you fanboys." butt down, nobody here is saying Eli is the greatest QB of all time, and I agree with Warner that Eli is not a HOFer yet, what I don't agree at all with Warner is his REASONING, therefore his whole argument just makes no sense. Inconsistency is simply not the reason why Eli shouldn't be in the HOF, it's the length of his career only. Can you get that through your pseudo-intellectual skull of yours pal?</p>


Oh, please excuse me for assuming that a level head, intelligent conversation, and facts were not allowed in this thread, </p>


Let me put the blue shades on - ELI IS A FIRST TIME GO HOF QB!!!!!</p>
Lol.

While we're at it, Hostetler, your use of punctuation proper grammar CLEARLY proves that you don't know what you're talking about...

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 03:21 PM
Warner is entitled to his opinion.</P>


But, I remember when he was the QB, the sack count was outrageous......and then when Eli took over, the sacks went down dramatically.</P>


Warner played inside a big living room in both St Louis and Arizona. He had Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce,Holt, Hakim..... and had Mike Martz running a pass-happyoffense.</P>


Warner, when he had protection, was an incredibly accurate passer. But for him to base his critique of Manning in part on his supporting cast.....just odd considering what Warner was working with.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


The sacks went down almost as fast as the wins.</P>


We were 5-4with Warner and 1-6 with Eli in 2004. Lets not get too selective with our facts.</P>


</P>


</P>


I'm not being selective....just making the point that Warner was a statue back there.</P>


</P>


But its about winning games. Even Eli last week talked about how horrible he was early on.</P>


But yes, Warner's biggest problem with us was his holding the ball too long.</P>

elismom
02-10-2012, 03:26 PM
Warner is entitled to his opinion.</P>


But, I remember when he was the QB, the sack count was outrageous......and then when Eli took over, the sacks went down dramatically.</P>


Warner played inside a big living room in both St Louis and Arizona. He had Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce,Holt, Hakim..... and had Mike Martz running a pass-happyoffense.</P>


Warner, when he had protection, was an incredibly accurate passer. But for him to base his critique of Manning in part on his supporting cast.....just odd considering what Warner was working with.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


The sacks went down almost as fast as the wins.</P>


We were 5-4with Warner and 1-6 with Eli in 2004. Lets not get too selective with our facts.</P>


</P>


</P>


I'm not being selective....just making the point that Warner was a statue back there.</P>


</P>


But its about winning games. Even Eli last week talked about how horrible he was early on.</P>


But yes, Warner's biggest problem with us was his holding the ball too long.</P>


</P>


</P>


ok Moore, truce</P>


</P>


yo rosey in another thread compared eli to jim plunkett, evern you find that comical</P>


</P>


no?</P>

Morehead State
02-10-2012, 03:31 PM
Thank God for the Giants MB on a Friday afternoon. I was in a bad mood this morning.

Sarcasman
02-10-2012, 03:54 PM
You folks need to take off the blue shaded glasses - Eli , if he were to end his career today, would be on the ballot, but would never get in, the whole body of work is considered, and EVERYONE OF YOU wanted Rivers back as little as 5 1/2 years ago.</P>


Eli has put up decent numbers for only 3 years, and regardless of how those INT's happened last year , when its time to vote him in or out, the voters will see 25 INT's,* Eli needs to continue on the pace he going for 3-4 more years.</P>


*</P>


Realize this folks, if rings were the standard of becoming enshrined than Haley would be in.</P>


for those of you have have no clue, Haley is the ONLY player EVER to win 5 rings</P>


Calm your "I'm so intellectual and level-headed to scold you fanboys." butt down, nobody here is saying Eli is the greatest QB of all time, and I agree with Warner that Eli is not a HOFer yet, what I don't agree at all with Warner is his REASONING, therefore his whole argument just makes no sense. Inconsistency is simply not the reason why Eli shouldn't be in the HOF, it's the length of his career only. Can you get that through your pseudo-intellectual skull of yours pal?</P>


Oh, please excuse me for assuming that a level head*, intelligent conversation, and facts were not allowed in this thread, </P>


Link please!</P>


Link for Haley??* </P>

No. For intelligent, level headed, fact based postings.

That would be a first here.

Harooni
02-10-2012, 05:13 PM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB.* oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.


I remember the day Eli rplaced Warner

Harooni did not agree. lol

hell yeah i was Pissed!!!* they gave up on 2004 season where we beat GB and minny.* we only needed a few more wins.** in hindsight it all worked out Eli getting his growing pains out of the way.* but at the time i was upset.




All Warner had to do to keep his job was not **** the bed against the Cardinals. He couldn't hack it so he had to ride pine.
we lost by 3 points.


to...the...cardinals. and we lost twice to skins this year it
Happens

buffyblue
02-10-2012, 06:20 PM
Kurt Warner was a great QB. He was still recovering from that thumb when he came to NY Giants and lets face it, it is not like that NY Giants team was anything to brag about.

Here are some of Kurt’s regular season statistics-

32,344 Yards passing
208 TDs- 129 INTs
QB Rating 93.7

Here are some of Kurt’s post season statistics-
Second highest rated passer in NFL postseason history- 105.2

Most Yards thrown in a game in SuperBowl history.

1- Kurt Warner- 414
2-Kurt Warner- 377
3-Kurt Warner- 365

Most yards passing in SuperBowl history-

1-Tom Brady- 1277 (5 SuperBowls)
2- Kurt Warner-1156 (3 SuperBowls)

Kurt Warner also has some other post season records and comes close in a couple others.

Kurt Warner was a great QB and is a first ballot lock to make it into the HoF. There is a reason Indianapolis Colts called him first after they realized they needed a QB because Peyton Manning was out for 2011.

Kurt Warner is an analyst that was aked a question. He did his job and gave his answer. He was articulate and he backed up his point. He did not sound bitter. He did not put Eli Manning down at all.

He did not say “I own Eli Manning” or anything like that.
Heck if he had said Gissele is not going to make it top the SuperModel HoF you folks would be saying he is the greatest guy ever.

NYSPORTS
02-10-2012, 10:38 PM
[nt

Sarcasman
02-11-2012, 12:48 PM
Kurt Warner was a great QB. He was still recovering from that thumb when he came to NY Giants and lets face it, it is not like that NY Giants team was anything to brag about.

Here are some of Kurt’s regular season statistics-

32,344 Yards passing
208 TDs- 129 INTs
QB Rating 93.7

Here are some of Kurt’s post season statistics-
Second highest rated passer in NFL postseason history- 105.2

Most Yards thrown in a game in SuperBowl history.

1- Kurt Warner- 414
2-Kurt Warner- 377
3-Kurt Warner- 365

Most yards passing in SuperBowl history-

1-Tom Brady- 1277 (5 SuperBowls)
2- Kurt Warner-1156 (3 SuperBowls)

Kurt Warner also has some other post season records and comes close in a couple others.

Kurt Warner was a great QB and is a first ballot lock to make it into the HoF. There is a reason Indianapolis Colts called him first after they realized they needed a QB because Peyton Manning was out for 2011.

Kurt Warner is an analyst that was aked a question. He did his job and gave his answer. He was articulate and he backed up his point. He did not sound bitter. He did not put Eli Manning down at all.

He did not say “I own Eli Manning” or anything like that.
Heck if he had said Gissele is not going to make it top the SuperModel HoF you folks would be saying he is the greatest guy ever.


Oh yeah. If Warner is not a first ballot lock for the HOF, the whole system is rigged.

appletree943
02-11-2012, 01:40 PM
because he didnt say what you wanted to here your gona hate on Kurt Warner now?

injurys killed the middle part of Warners career saying because he was *inconsistent* is stupid


You hate Eli anyways so what you have to say about this? i said nothing about eli in my quote

appletree943
02-11-2012, 01:44 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers. That does not get you into the Hall of Fame. That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing. If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB. If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.


Agree. An absolutely tremendous QB.

Of course this simply reinforces Warner's contention that it's a very rare QB who carries a team by himself. Certainly he never did.

He had unbelievable talent around him. name a sb winning qb that didnt have amazing talent around him on offense

Tom Brady?

Easy-Duz-It
02-11-2012, 02:31 PM
He is an indoors QB who couldn't hack it in New York.

Be quiet Warner. Eli is BETTER than you. I don't think there was anything wrong with what he said.

whether he has a valid argument or not is irrelevant. the issue is that he felt compelled to get into the debate in the first place. he should've just kept his pie hole shut. who does this guy think he is? he's clearly bitter.

Easy-Duz-It
02-11-2012, 02:34 PM
Hey Kurt.... Do you want to talk about consistency? Lets look at your mid career.

2002...... 0-6 record, 1431 passing yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 67 QB rating
2003...... 0-1 record, 365 passing yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72 QB rating
2004...... 5-4 record, 2054 passing yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86 QB rating
2005...... 2-5 record, 2713 passing yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 85 QB rating
2006...... 1-4 record, 1377 passing yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs......

The list goes on and on. Is that the consistency of a hall of fame QB?




i'm not sure about all of those stats...but i know that they are inaccurate. didn't kurt post a 6-2 record with us before getting benched for eli?

giantsfan420
02-11-2012, 02:58 PM
Hey Kurt.... Do you want to talk about consistency? Lets look at your mid career.

2002...... 0-6 record, 1431 passing yards, 3 TDs, 11 INTs, 67 QB rating
2003...... 0-1 record, 365 passing yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72 QB rating
2004...... 5-4 record, 2054 passing yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86 QB rating
2005...... 2-5 record, 2713 passing yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 85 QB rating
2006...... 1-4 record, 1377 passing yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs......

The list goes on and on. Is that the consistency of a hall of fame QB?




i'm not sure about all of those stats...but i know that they are inaccurate. didn't kurt post a 6-2 record with us before getting benched for eli?

we started like 4-1 and then we fell to 5-4 and lost 3 out of 4...

Sarcasman
02-11-2012, 03:32 PM
Kurt is not over rated.

Kurt likes Eli, and he is still close to Coughlin.

What Kurt was getting at was this:

Most of Eli's career, he has been a good QB and has good numbers.* That does not get you into the Hall of Fame.* That is correct.

It really was not until 2011 that you could say Eli is a great QB.

If Eli puts together 4-5 more seasons like he did in 2011, and couple that with two titles and two SB MVPs, then he is in the conversation.

If Eli and the GIANTS can get to another SB, then he becomes more of a sure thing.* If the GIANTS win another SB, and Eli plays well in it, then he is a lock.

Bottom Line: Eli is now a top-5 QB.* If he stays one throughout the rest of his prime, then he gets to Canton someday.

I disagree, Warner is TOTALLY OVER-RATED. He is indoors-only QB. If Eli doesn't belong in HOF right now, Warner is even farther out.

Kurt Warner is as brilliant a passer that has ever played in this league, and the ONLY reason he didn't have an even better career is because that lunatic Mike Martz almost killed him.

The St Louis Rams did things on Offense that the rest of the league can only do now, 13 years later with the specific help of Rules Changes,

Think what you want, but Warner was a great QB.

Eli is a great QB now, and is my guy, but that doesn't diminish what Kurt did.


Agree. An absolutely tremendous QB.

Of course this simply reinforces Warner's contention that it's a very rare QB who carries a team by himself. Certainly he never did.

He had unbelievable talent around him. name* a sb winning qb that didnt have amazing talent around him on offense

Tom Brady?



I can't name any. That's precisely the point.

burier
02-13-2012, 11:37 AM
yeah you are right that is why josh mccown and matt lienhart took the cardnals to the SB.* oh wait...



LOL

McCown and Lienhart sucking doesn't make Warner great, but it would be nice if that were the criteria for quality. Every good player in the league could use that for their HOF induction speech.

"Sure, my stats were good and while my teammates were tremendous and I couldn't have done it without them, I really deserve all the credit because I don't suck nearly as much as Ty Detmer..."

it means your theory of Kurt being a system qb and surrounded by talent does not hold water. because those 2 qb's couldnt do it with the same talent around them.


I remember the day Eli rplaced Warner

Harooni did not agree. lol

hell yeah i was Pissed!!!* they gave up on 2004 season where we beat GB and minny.* we only needed a few more wins.** in hindsight it all worked out Eli getting his growing pains out of the way.* but at the time i was upset.




All Warner had to do to keep his job was not **** the bed against the Cardinals. He couldn't hack it so he had to ride pine.
we lost by 3 points.


to...the...cardinals. and we lost twice to skins this year it
Happens

I agree but it can't happen when the first overall pick is breathing down your neck.

The only reason to keep Warner in would be to make the playoffs and based on Warner's overall performance and specifically the performances against the bears and Cards we weren't going to fair well against the rest of the schedule anyway. Warner was not beating the Steelers or the Ravens.

If you're gonna lose anyway might as well lose with the franchise QB.

buffyblue
02-13-2012, 11:44 AM
The issue is he was asked about it and it is his job to answer the question.

burier
02-13-2012, 02:57 PM
The issue is he was asked about it and it is his job to answer the question.

trust me he wasn't asked that many times.

Hes been on the radio, NFL net, anyone who will listen because he's an angry drunk.

TrueBlue@NYC
02-13-2012, 03:46 PM
The issue is he was asked about it and it is his job to answer the question. trust me he wasn't asked that many times. Hes been on the radio, NFL net, anyone who will listen because he's an angry drunk.</P>


Actually, you have it backwards. </P>


He's not getting himself on these shows to argue against Eli beinga lock for the HOF right now, THE NETWORKS are asking him to come on BECAUSE of his original remarks. And he's doing his job in doing these interviews. </P>


And calling him a drunk is simply immature and dumb. </P>


All he said wasthat a QB who'se only played in the league 8 years isn't a lock for the HOF yet, but will be if he continues to play well. Since when is that a freaking insult? That's a compliment, if anything. </P>


And whether you believe Warner is a HOFer or not doesn't change his credibililty at all. Last I checked, none of the media guys voting on the HOF are in the hall themselves either. </P>

JDE123
02-13-2012, 04:08 PM
And whether you believe Warner is a HOFer or not doesn't change his credibililty at all. Last I checked, none of the media guys voting on the HOF are in the hall themselves either.

I wholeheartedly agree with your entire post, but this last bit is the part that really tickles my brain. Of the 100 or so guys on here debating the HOF, I'm guessing most of us have never played college ball let alone sniffed the NFL. Yet, a former NFL MVP who is paid by NFL Network to provide his analysis is somehow unqualified to have an opinion.

Sarcasman
02-13-2012, 09:30 PM
And whether you believe Warner is a HOFer or not doesn't change his credibililty at all. Last I checked, none of the media guys voting on the HOF are in the hall themselves either.

I wholeheartedly agree with your entire post, but this last bit is the part that really tickles my brain.* Of the 100 or so guys on here debating the HOF,* I'm guessing most of us have never played college ball let alone sniffed the NFL.* Yet, a former NFL MVP who is paid by NFL Network to provide his analysis is somehow unqualified to have an opinion.



Of course he's qualified to have an opinion. That's all.

However, his former job doesn't make his opinion better or more qualified than anyone else's.

Voldamort
02-13-2012, 09:32 PM
no more time for this guy!