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G-Man67
02-10-2012, 11:25 AM
ok, Cam Newtom, Sam Bradford and Matt Stafford are still very young, so we'll pass them by for now



Alex Smith, 1st good year



Eli, what can you say, JACKPOT!



Caron Palmer, pretty much garbage, a couple decent years



David Carr, ha a nice backup



Vick, is the 2nd time the charm or is he just too fragile for his style of play



Tim Couch, ah well should have never left the couch



Peyton, 1st ballot HOF, but will he win another or even play again?



Bledsoe, this is back as far as 1993 BTW, decent, but never lived up to the hype ... best thing he did for NE was to get hurt, so Tom Brady could take over



Jeff George, nothin but an arm



Aikman - 1989 - HOFer, so we'll end it here



point is that #1 picks have enormous pressure and overall they usually never live up to the hype esp. QBs, add to that the brutal fans and media in the New York market ... add to that the hatred of New York players/teams around the country ... add to that Archie refusing to let Eli play in San Diego ... has a player ever had more pressure to perform???

MikeIsaGiant
02-10-2012, 11:28 AM
Peyton has a success rate, I don't care about how many rings he has.

It's pretty obvious how bad that team was without Peyton

G-Man67
02-10-2012, 11:34 AM
Peyton has a success rate, I don't care about how many rings he has.

It's pretty obvious how bad that team was without Peyton

oh very true, but the point is he had little to no pressure playing for Indy, he got the keys to the city the moment he arrived and he was the immediate hero ... he struggled early on as most young QBs do ... but never was there even a whisper of criticizism in Indy ... nationally a little, but not locally

JMFP2
02-10-2012, 11:35 AM
Thank God for Ernie Accorsi, that's all I'll say.</P>

YATittle1962
02-10-2012, 12:10 PM
Thank God for Ernie Accorsi, that's all I'll say.</P>

and Well Mara because he was the one pushing for Coughlin

Ernie hated Coughlin

our recent success is absolutely a credit to the strong bonding team of Manning and Coughlin

CDN_G-FAN
02-10-2012, 12:16 PM
ok, Cam Newtom, Sam Bradford and Matt Stafford are still very young, so we'll pass them by for now


Alex Smith, 1st good year


Eli, what can you say, JACKPOT!


Caron Palmer, pretty much garbage, a couple decent years


David Carr, ha a nice backup


Vick, is the 2nd time the charm or is he just too fragile for his style of play


Tim Couch, ah well should have never left the couch


Peyton, 1st ballot HOF, but will he win another or even play again?


Bledsoe, this is back as far as 1993 BTW, decent, but never lived up to the hype ... best thing he did for NE was to get hurt, so Tom Brady could take over


Jeff George, nothin but an arm


Aikman - 1989 - HOFer, so we'll end it here


point is that #1 picks have enormous pressure and overall they usually never live up to the hype esp. QBs, add to that the brutal fans and media in the New York market ... add to that the hatred of New York players/teams around the country ... add to that Archie refusing to let Eli play in San Diego ... has a player ever had more pressure to perform???


i did the work acouple years ago when fans where saying we needed to draft another QB in the 1st round.


From memory, over the last 5 years, in the first 2 rounds, only about 1/10th of the QBs drafted had starting jobs, or had starting jobs where people expected them to keep them.


guys are forgetting names like Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, JP Losman, Brian Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman.


ALL of them are 1st round QBs.


We literally don't know how fortunate we are to have drafted one that's worked out.


Easily, most of them end up as back-ups or has beens.</P>

CDN_G-FAN
02-10-2012, 12:17 PM
Thank God for Ernie Accorsi, that's all I'll say.</P>


and Well Mara because he was the one pushing for Coughlin Ernie hated Coughlin our recent success is absolutely a credit to the strong bonding team of Manning and Coughlin</P>


+1 </P>


Ernie all but said in his book that he would have fired Coughlin if he hadn't retired.</P>

tripleaamin9
02-10-2012, 12:19 PM
Lol @ calling palmer garbage.
Difference in the successful ones then not is they were placed in a good position to succeed.

TuckYou
02-10-2012, 12:23 PM
Lol @ calling palmer garbage. Difference in the successful ones then not is they were placed in a good position to succeed.</P>


Carson Palmer is probably the best and will continue to be the best QB out of USC. Calling him garbage is ridiculous. He was a great QB and possibly on his way before his knee injury. He just isnt the same after that. He was great at one point though.</P>

ebick
02-10-2012, 01:46 PM
A couple of names I didn't see there, for better or worse...</P>


Jemarcus Russell</P>


Vinny Testeverde</P>


John Elway</P>


</P>


That takes us back through the 80's</P>


</P>


I thought David Klinger was one but I was incorrect. Cincy's had some rough ones.....</P>


</P>

freeoscar
02-10-2012, 02:04 PM
Bledsoe was good, and took his team to the SB. Carson Palmer was very good before the injury. Carr was put in a terrible spot - who knows how he would've turned out otherwise.
The draft isn't all together different than a lottery. How many teams like Indy, Pats have several yrs of success, and the same GM then has several yrs of drought? Bellicheck is somehow lauded for picking Brady 199, as if that was a genius move. I mean, if you thought you had one of the GOAT sitting out there, why would you risk letting him drop to 199? Who even knows if he plays if Bledsoe didn't get hurt? They stumbled on a diamond, though, and the credit goes to developing it once they realized what they had.

SweetZombieJesus
02-10-2012, 02:09 PM
All you need to know is that Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf were considered 1 and 1A in the 1998 draft.

One is on the all-time greatest list, the other has been out of football for years.

Also Tom Brady was pick #199.

bigblue4417
02-10-2012, 02:13 PM
So what you're saying is Eli has a chance to be the best #1 overall QB in the history of the NFL?

OK!

G-Man67
02-10-2012, 02:33 PM
Lol @ calling palmer garbage. Difference in the successful ones then not is they were placed in a good position to succeed.</P>


Carson Palmer is probably the best and will continue to be the best QB out of USC. Calling him garbage is ridiculous. He was a great QB and possibly on his way before his knee injury. He just isnt the same after that. He was great at one point though.</P>

i'll tell ya, the Bengals were light years better without him



garbage, probably not the right word, i agree ... but i wasnt evaluating his college career and i was factoring in that he was the very 1st player selected his draft year, so the expectations far exceeded the output ... to me Carson Palmer in his NFL prime was not much better than Kerry Collins in his NFL prime

Palmer 86 rating, 25.5K yards, 167 TDs



Collins 74 rating, 40.9K yards, 208 TDs



now he has time to catch up on TDs, he will never equal the yards and if last season is anything to consider, then his rating will dip during the latter part of his career



the knee was a very tough break against him ... he was playing his best football when it happened, but that is ancient history now and it's not like he was ever a scrambler back there

jhamburg
02-10-2012, 02:34 PM
ok, Cam Newtom, Sam Bradford and Matt Stafford are still very young, so we'll pass them by for now



Alex Smith, 1st good year



Eli, what can you say, JACKPOT!



Caron Palmer, pretty much garbage, a couple decent years



David Carr, ha a nice backup



Vick, is the 2nd time the charm or is he just too fragile for his style of play



Tim Couch, ah well should have never left the couch



Peyton, 1st ballot HOF, but will he win another or even play again?



Bledsoe, this is back as far as 1993 BTW, decent, but never lived up to the hype ... best thing he did for NE was to get hurt, so Tom Brady could take over



Jeff George, nothin but an arm



Aikman - 1989 - HOFer, so we'll end it here



point is that #1 picks have enormous pressure and overall they usually never live up to the hype esp. QBs, add to that the brutal fans and media in the New York market ... add to that the hatred of New York players/teams around the country ... add to that Archie refusing to let Eli play in San Diego ... has a player ever had more pressure to perform???

Peyton had a long and awesome career, single handedly made his team perrennial contenders and won a super bowl. It makes no sense to say anything negative about him in the context of judging the success of #1 picks.

How many QBs who busted did not have legitimate red flags that were known about them AT THE TIME THEY WERE DRAFTED. Russell, Leaf, character issues...Couch, system QB....etc, etc....The only one I can see that didn't really was Carr, and you can argue that he failed because he went to a horrible situation in Houston.

G-Man67
02-10-2012, 03:00 PM
Peyton had a long and awesome career, single handedly made his team perrennial contenders and won a super bowl. It makes no sense to say anything negative about him in the context of judging the success of #1 picks.

How many QBs who busted did not have legitimate red flags that were known about them AT THE TIME THEY WERE DRAFTED. Russell, Leaf, character issues...Couch, system QB....etc, etc....The only one I can see that didn't really was Carr, and you can argue that he failed because he went to a horrible situation in Houston.

this isn't about Peyton vs. Eli, but the facts are that he may never win/play again ... we don't know and that will be part of his legacy ... Marino is always asked questions about not winning ... whether fair or not



this is simply a compliment to Eli and a reality check ... i'm sure most would have thought that QBs selected 1st overall would have better track records and to point out that it is clearly added pressure for a QB to be picked 1st overall

Tony Bruno
02-10-2012, 03:34 PM
Big Ben was a 1st rounder too...

G-Man67
02-10-2012, 03:47 PM
Big Ben was a 1st rounder too...

right, but i'm purely focusing on 1st overall selections, since the expectations are so much greater



for example, Christian Ponder was selected 12th in the 1st round this year and there was certainly no national hoopla about this guy beating out McNabb and becoming an all pro, mvp, super bowl winning QB overnight ... now ironically McNabb played himself out of football and Ponder did a decent job in relief ... but compared to what is expected of Cam Newton or what will be expected of Andrew Luck ... well it's night and day

bigblue4417
02-10-2012, 03:48 PM
Big Ben was a 1st rounder too...
<h4 class="ForumPostTitle"> <font color="#0000FF">QBs selected #1 overall</font> - success rate
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Pay attention. lol j/k man.
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I thought the exact same thing when I was reading the thread. I also thought why they didn't talk about Phillip. Then I thought about it, ohhhhhhhh duh! lol
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JDE123
02-10-2012, 06:02 PM
Peyton has a success rate, I don't care about how many rings he has.

It's pretty obvious how bad that team was without Peyton

oh very true, but the point is he had little to no pressure playing for Indy, he got the keys to the city the moment he arrived and he was the immediate hero ... he struggled early on as most young QBs do ... but never was there even a whisper of criticizism in Indy ... nationally a little, but not locally
Isn't that more than a little naive? Granted, the Indy media is not as ravenous as the New York media and neither are the fans, but (1) every starting quarterback (let alone 1rst overall pick) has enormous pressure to succeed, and (2) Peyton came into the league with perhaps the greatest expectations of any QB in the history of the league.

TuckYou
02-10-2012, 06:06 PM
Lol @ calling palmer garbage. Difference in the successful ones then not is they were placed in a good position to succeed.</P>


Carson Palmer is probably the best and will continue to be the best QB out of USC. Calling him garbage is ridiculous. He was a great QB and possibly on his way before his knee injury. He just isnt the same after that. He was great at one point though.</P> i'll tell ya, the Bengals were light years better without him


garbage, probably not the right word, i agree ... but i wasnt evaluating his college career and i was factoring in that he was the very 1st player selected his draft year, so the expectations far exceeded the output ... to me Carson Palmer in his NFL prime was not much better than Kerry Collins in his NFL prime Palmer 86 rating, 25.5K yards, 167 TDs


Collins 74 rating, 40.9K yards, 208 TDs


now he has time to catch up on TDs, he will never equal the yards and if last season is anything to consider, then his rating will dip during the latter part of his career


the knee was a very tough break against him ... he was playing his best football when it happened, but that is ancient history now and it's not like he was ever a scrambler back there


Carson Palmer had 2 years, 2005 and 2006, that were statistically better then any year Eli has had (exception of yardage this season when yardage became pretty much a garbage stat). 32TDs and 12 INTs in 2005, 101.1 QBR.


Im not saying Carson is/was better then Eli, but Carson was doing great things before his injury, and he never really recovered.


I loved Dalton in the draft and he lived up to it. Obviously AJ Green is a top talent as well. Bengals D was significantly better then Carson ever had as well, so that helps. </P>

chasjay
02-10-2012, 06:17 PM
Lol @ calling palmer garbage. Difference in the successful ones then not is they were placed in a good position to succeed.</p>


Carson Palmer is probably the best and will continue to be the best QB out of USC. Calling him garbage is ridiculous. He was a great QB and possibly on his way before his knee injury. He just isnt the same after that. He was great at one point though.</p>

Agree with these posts. If Oakland makes the right coaching and personnel moves (and the knee holds up), I don't think we've heard the last from Palmer.

And I don't know what kind of career Alex Smith will end up having, but this year shows you what coaching and game-planning can do to a QB's fortunes.

jhamburg
02-10-2012, 09:18 PM
Peyton had a long and awesome career, single handedly made his team perrennial contenders and won a super bowl. It makes no sense to say anything negative about him in the context of judging the success of #1 picks.

How many QBs who busted did not have legitimate red flags that were known about them AT THE TIME THEY WERE DRAFTED. Russell, Leaf, character issues...Couch, system QB....etc, etc....The only one I can see that didn't really was Carr, and you can argue that he failed because he went to a horrible situation in Houston.

this isn't about Peyton vs. Eli, but the facts are that he may never win/play again ... we don't know and that will be part of his legacy ... Marino is always asked questions about not winning ... whether fair or not



this is simply a compliment to Eli and a reality check ... i'm sure most would have thought that QBs selected 1st overall would have better track records and to point out that it is clearly added pressure for a QB to be picked 1st overall

I still don't see how Peyton never playing again at an age when most QBs are already retired is relevant to his legacy.