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View Full Version : Should Big ben and eli be in the Hall of fame if they were to retire today?



Marvelousmik
02-10-2012, 01:32 PM
Ive been seeing a lot of posts where people are angry at kurt for saying eli and ben are not HOF players as of now.

This is a touchy subject. What is it that qualifies someone to be in the HOF? Is it stats? Wins? championships?

If rodgers wins the superbowl next year, should he be in the HOF is he retires?

What are your thoughts? I want to know your opinions.

GmenFan1980
02-10-2012, 01:35 PM
No. /thread

Delicreep
02-10-2012, 01:37 PM
Not even nominated

GmenFan1980
02-10-2012, 01:38 PM
oh my bad, i'll answer the other Question.

It's whoever they want to vote into the hall of fame, No true system

Dan Marino= got in because of stats

Joe namath= Got in because of Guarantee

Terry Bradshaw= Got in because of championships

Joe Montana= Stats and Champion ships

it's really just whoever they want in

MattMeyerBud
02-10-2012, 01:39 PM
im just happy you made another thread about this

i am all for having as many threads on a single topic as possible....

TheEnigma
02-10-2012, 01:39 PM
Ive been seeing a lot of posts where people are angry at kurt for saying eli and ben are not HOF players as of now.

This is a touchy subject. What is it that qualifies someone to be in the HOF?* Is it stats? Wins? championships?

If rodgers wins the superbowl next year, should he be in the HOF is he retires?

What are your thoughts? I want to know your opinions.

Nope but that's because I tend to rate League MVP and offensive player of the year awards higher than winning Superbowls.

Before someone comes in and bashes me for saying "But the Superbowl is all that matters", the Superbowl isn't won by a single individual. It's a team effort.

Both of these guys will also be compared to their peers in the current era and while they are very good, the stats just don't match up AT THIS POINT.

With that said, I do think Eli will get into the HoF as long as he plays consistent from now on.

Big Ben will probably need another Superbowl victory.

Harooni
02-10-2012, 01:39 PM
HOF is not as easy to get into as people think it is. look at parcells. (great injustice btw)


going to have to see at least one league MVP and a few more seasons as a top passer. (both)

buffyblue
02-10-2012, 01:42 PM
If Eli Manning and Ben Rothlisberger retired today, they should by all accounts go to the HoF.

THE_New_York_Giants
02-10-2012, 01:45 PM
I think this is the trillionth thread on this topic.

Harooni
02-10-2012, 01:46 PM
If Eli Manning and Ben Rothlisberger retired today, they should by all accounts go to the HoF.

yeah lets put rodgers in and anyone named matt that throws 40td passes and 5000 yards also.


HOF is not just given automatically.

bflo23
02-10-2012, 01:47 PM
60% regular season stats
20% playoff stats
20% championships

Firenugget
02-10-2012, 01:50 PM
I would say no...But then again, most fans say Simms should be in, so how do you justify pulling for Simms and not Eli? Sure Simms has more total yds after a 14 year career, but not much more and Eli hasn't played 14 years yet lol. He's on pace to absolutely obliterate Simms stats by leaps and bounds if you figure he plays another 7 years or so.

Yards...
Eli-27,579 (needs 5,884yds to break...2 Years away I'd say is a safe bet barring injury)
Simms-33,462

TD's...INT's
Eli-185...129 (only need 15 TD's to beat him out..I'd say most likely next year)
Simms-199...157

Not gonna bother with QB rating (because I don't understand it anyways) but Eli is ahead...

***BUT*** Simms ISN'T in the HOF sooooo how can we say Eli should be "now"?

He will be when he's done, until then relax folks and enjoy the ride. As far as Ben goes...I don't know....But then again I don't care either. [:P]

SweetZombieJesus
02-10-2012, 01:57 PM
So much of it is touch-feely and there is inconsistent logic.

Troy Aikman has stats as bad as Eli and is in the Hall. Joe Namath had a terrible career but is in the Hall.

IMO multiple championships seems to catch most of the cases. Only one I can think of in the SB era that isn't is Jim Plunkett.

The fact is that Eli is a 2x Super Bowl winner. IMO, the two marches through the playoffs, the two come from behind wins, the two road paths to get there, and twice beating the dominant team of this era, should be enough. Then throw in that he is breaking NYG records, a franchise that's been around for almost 90 years.

The case for Eli is pretty strong. Now can we wait for his retirement announcement to care about this?

Bing Crosby
02-10-2012, 02:00 PM
I'm going to write this out as best I can so I can just copy and past this from now on lol.

The main problem with this question is their is no perimeters to "what is a HOF player?". It's not stats or Namath wouldn't be in. It's not championships or Marino wouldn't be in. What it boils down to really is a popularity contest based on players stories. In other words if Eli died today, there is a good chance he would get in, if he retired he wouldn't. That simple. It's the difference between "What would of been.", compared to "Gave up to early." So long as Eli doesn't revert to his former numbers he is in the HOF when he retires, if he does revert he will have a harder argument to make.

So basically you can invent any standards you want and argue for them. I think Warner's standards are to damn high, and a lot of HOF's wouldn't be in there now if we followed his guidelines.

I believe in Eli though, and personally think he will be in.

SweetZombieJesus
02-10-2012, 02:01 PM
HOF is not as easy to get into as people think it is. look at parcells. (great injustice btw)


Most agree this unthinkable snub is "payback" from the butthurt sports reporters who vote on the matter. Parcells disdained most of them and treated them like tools.

SweetZombieJesus
02-10-2012, 02:03 PM
What it boils down to really is a popularity contest based on players stories. In other words if Eli died today, there is a good chance he would get in, if he retired he wouldn't. That simple. It's the difference between "What would of been.", compared to "Gave up to early." So long as Eli doesn't revert to his former numbers he is in the HOF when he retires, if he does revert he will have a harder argument to make.


You can't even say that, Barry Sanders comes to mind.

Harooni
02-10-2012, 02:04 PM
HOF is not as easy to get into as people think it is. look at parcells. (great injustice btw)


Most agree this unthinkable snub is "payback" from the butthurt sports reporters who vote on the matter. Parcells disdained most of them and treated them like tools.


well i thought it was funny , i loved his pressers. he also joked with them and made them lol at times when he was in a good mood.

if he isnt a HOF coach then who is?

Bing Crosby
02-10-2012, 02:07 PM
You can't even say that, Barry Sanders comes to mind.


That's true, I didn't even think of Barry. Of course the big difference between him and Eli is that Barry was almost universally loved by the powers that be on the committee. I still say it's a popularity contest based on what storyline the voters believe in the most.

I still believe Warner's standards are ridiculous.

I just thought though, maybe Barry is getting a pass on retiring early because he was with the Lions. Maybe that's just my Giant's pride coming threw though. Barry retired because he knew they couldn't get to the big game, if Eli retired it would be "Who retires from a Superbowl team at 31?"

giantsfan420
02-10-2012, 02:12 PM
heres a question:

lets say ben r. and eli both have bad statistical years for the rest of their careers, but each win 2 more SBs, would they get in?

like lets say they had 20td 20int seasons and 3000yards for the rest of their careers, but each manages to win another sb or two, would they get in?

Bing Crosby
02-10-2012, 02:24 PM
like lets say they had 20td 20int seasons and 3000yards for the rest of their careers, but each manages to win another sb or two, would they get in?

If either get another Superbowl, especially a SBMVP yeah they are in. And everybody knows it, although it would annoy a lot of people if their stats were that bad. I don't see Eli falling like that though, or Big Ben for that matter.

Voldamort
02-10-2012, 02:26 PM
They both will get in,but they need more statsthe year of the 5,000 yard 35 tds passer.

DemandedAce
02-10-2012, 02:31 PM
Ive been seeing a lot of posts where people are angry at kurt for saying eli and ben are not HOF players as of now.

This is a touchy subject. What is it that qualifies someone to be in the HOF?* Is it stats? Wins? championships?

If rodgers wins the superbowl next year, should he be in the HOF is he retires?

What are your thoughts? I want to know your opinions.



Too soon but think of it this way, the giants won the superbowls in large part thanks to Eli's play, the steelers won in large part in spite of big Bens play. Lowest QBR as winning QB lul

Harooni
02-10-2012, 02:33 PM
Big ben and Eli will be forever linked, kinda sweet in a way.

mara -rooney thing

gumby742
02-10-2012, 02:54 PM
No to both.

ralphpal
02-10-2012, 03:01 PM
I think both get into the HOF . They just have to built up there stats since they both got the superbowls . But have very explosive offenses now . Nick, Cruz , and whoever verus Wallace , Brown and Sanders . WOW. Like i wrote they just need to build up their stats which i dont think its going to be so hard with those guys

DEgiants89
02-10-2012, 03:05 PM
I don't think Big Ben would because he never carried his team through the playoffs like Eli did. If anything look at Big Ben's stats in his 3 SB appearances. Probably the lowest of any winning SB QB. Straight appalling stats.

Tony Bruno
02-10-2012, 03:40 PM
Do I think he will land there???... Yes without a doubt... I think Ben will too..

buffyblue
02-10-2012, 03:50 PM
I would say no...But then again, most fans say Simms should be in, so how do you justify pulling for Simms and not Eli? Sure Simms has more total yds after a 14 year career, but not much more and Eli hasn't played 14 years yet lol. He's on pace to absolutely obliterate Simms stats by leaps and bounds if you figure he plays another 7 years or so.

Yards...
Eli-27,579 (needs 5,884yds to break...2 Years away I'd say is a safe bet barring injury)
Simms-33,462

TD's...INT's
Eli-185...129 (only need 15 TD's to beat him out..I'd say most likely next year)
Simms-199...157

Not gonna bother with QB rating (because I don't understand it anyways) but Eli is ahead...

***BUT*** Simms ISN'T in the HOF sooooo how can we say Eli should be "now"?

He will be when he's done, until then relax folks and enjoy the ride. As far as Ben goes...I don't know....But then again I don't care either. [:P]



Two different QBS. I think Phil Simms is borderline and probably never will get in. I think if he played on a different team more suited to him as a QB then he would have had better stats and would have gotten in.

There is not even a debate at this point that Eli Manning is the greatest QB in NY Giants history.

Eli Manning should be in now because a number of reasons that the HoF loves.

1- Consecutive games started as a QB which is at 120 right now. That is huge for a QB.

2- 7 seven straight seasons throwing for over 3,000 yards and over 20 TDs. Only other guys to do that are Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Drew Brees and Peyton Manning.

3- Only 4 QBs have thrown for more yards their first eight seasons in the NFL.

4- Breaking Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning’s record of 4th quarter TDs during the regular season with 15.

5- Most road playoff wins by a QB.

6- His overall playoff runs at the end of the 2007 and 2011 NFL seasons.

7- His 4th quarter comebacks in SuperBowl XVII and SuperBowl XLVI.

8- Two SuperBowl MVP trophys.

9- The two SuperBowl wins and who they were against. He won two SuperBowls against arguably the greatest QB and greatest HC of all time.

10- The way he has done it. He has made the NY Giants his team. Phil Simms never did that.

There is more but for that is enough right there.

Another thing folks will always remember for is how he straight up gangstered the NFL back in 2004. Of course he wanted to go to the bigger stage in NY with the higher chance of success however some folks forget there was anothe reason. Peyton Manning wanted San Diego to trade up for Indy’s number one pick back in 1998 and choose him and they wouldn’t do it. Eli Manning got to throw a big middle finger at San Diego and get some payback for big brother. San Diego really wanted Eli Manning a lot more than Phillip Rivers. We didn’t even want Phillip Rivers if we had no chance at Eli Manning. We would have taken Ben Rothlisberger if Eli Manning was out of the picture.

G-Man67
02-10-2012, 04:03 PM
it's just another silly question ... are these guys planning to go on an exteme skiing trip or to climb Mt. Everest ... they'll both play many more years and even if they never win again they will be accumlating statistics and passing other HOFers each year

JDE123
02-10-2012, 04:48 PM
it's just another silly question ... are these guys planning to go on an exteme skiing trip or to climb Mt. Everest ... they'll both play many more years and even if they never win again they will be accumlating statistics and passing other HOFers each year
I wouldn't think so, but then again I wouldn't have expected Roethlisberger to almost kill himself on his motorcycle a few years back...