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juice33s
02-19-2012, 11:16 AM
Pre season the guy was rated as high as the #6 overall prospect by CBS's Pete Prisco before all his off the field issues and subsequent dismissal from Oregon. My question is in what round would you overlook the off field baggage and gamble on his on field talent?

I say 5th round, the guy immediately gives us an electric return man and ball hawking cover man on obvious passing downs.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zx5a6DKnoo">
Highlights</a>

bLuereverie
02-19-2012, 12:06 PM
From what I read, his transgressions weren't horrible, but the fact that is was perpetual was troubling. His off the field issues can be perceived in two ways:

A. Minor immature issues not on par with more serious offenses, therefore remediable

B. Habitual issues that shows lack of learning/potential to persist and even balloon.

Is he holding any workouts or invited to the combine? Would like to see where he was weightwise after a year off before I give a round grade where I would take him.

juice33s
02-19-2012, 01:09 PM
From what I read, his transgressions weren't horrible, but the fact that is was perpetual was troubling. His off the field issues can be perceived in two ways:

A. Minor immature issues not on par with more serious offenses, therefore remediable

B. Habitual issues that shows lack of learning/potential to persist and even balloon.

Is he holding any workouts o<font size="4">r invited to the combine? Would like to see where he was weightwise after a year off before I give a round grade where I would take him</font>.
He was invited to the combine and I don't think his weight will be an issue. For one he played in 4 games this season and two, the guy is rail thin and doesn't strike me as a guy who gets out of shape very easily. If anything he could stand to put on some bulk.

I'm interested to see what he runs his 40 in, I'm expecting a sub 4.4 with ease.

bLuereverie
02-19-2012, 01:35 PM
I wasn't worried about him getting fat, but rather the opposite. If he shows up less than 170, that in itself is an issue, moreso than his 40 time.

juice33s
02-19-2012, 05:58 PM
I wasn't worried about him getting fat, but rather the opposite. If he shows up less than 170, that in itself is an issue, moreso than his 40 time.
He is what he is and thats an electric playmaker in the mold of Desean Jackson and Devin Hester. Will he ever be an every down defensive player? Probably not, but if he's around in the 5th or later you're getting tremendous value on an explosive kick returner and specialty cover man that could stick with the other teams burner or the quick slot guy ala wes welker.

bLuereverie
02-20-2012, 09:29 AM
I wasn't worried about him getting fat, but rather the opposite. If he shows up less than 170, that in itself is an issue, moreso than his 40 time.
He is what he is and thats an electric playmaker in the mold of Desean Jackson and Devin Hester. Will he ever be an every down defensive player? Probably not, but if he's around in the 5th or later you're getting tremendous value on an explosive kick returner and specialty cover man that could stick with the other teams burner or the quick slot guy ala wes welker.


That's just the thing. We don't know what he is, and hopefully interviews can clear it up.

Shockeyitus
02-20-2012, 01:56 PM
Giants wont draft him... too many issues. Whether they are minor or not, there are still multiple issues.

slipknottin
02-20-2012, 02:25 PM
Im starting to think 7th rounder at best now.

Just far too high of a chance he will never play at all, and when he gets paid NFL money who knows what will happen, hes a menace to society already.

juice33s
02-20-2012, 02:42 PM
Im starting to think 7th rounder at best now.

Just far too high of a chance he will never play at all, and when he gets paid NFL money who knows what will happen, hes a menace to society already.
Why would he never play at all? Alls he did was speed and violate "team rules"......

Just did some reading of Harris, he's quite the character:

Dashboard camera footage from an Oregon State Police patrol car during the June 12, 4:30 a.m. traffic stop included this memorable exchange:


Patrolman: “Who’s got the marijuana in the car?”

Harris: "We smoked it all"

Harris' reported introductory line to his teammates in 2009: "My name is Cliff Harris, and I'm here to lock **** down."

slipknottin
02-20-2012, 02:46 PM
as i said, who knows how much other nonsense the kid has done. Hes quite the little menace.

And you just have to wonder what kind of shape hes in both physically and mentally.

THE_New_York_Giants
02-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Im starting to think 7th rounder at best now.

Just far too high of a chance he will never play at all, and when he gets paid NFL money who knows what will happen, hes a menace to society already.
Why would he never play at all? Alls he did was speed and violate "team rules"......

Just did some reading of Harris, he's quite the character:

Dashboard camera footage from an Oregon State Police patrol car during the June 12, 4:30 a.m. traffic stop included this memorable exchange:


Patrolman: “Who’s got the marijuana in the car?”

Harris: "We smoked it all"

Harris' reported introductory line to his teammates in 2009: "My name is Cliff Harris, and I'm here to lock **** down."


if all he's done is smoke weed... then he's far from a menace to society. It's far less dangerous and addictive than alcohol. More violent crime results from drinking alcohol than marijuana smoking. It should be legal

slipknottin
02-20-2012, 02:57 PM
if all he's done is smoke weed... then he's far from a menace to society. It's far less dangerous and addictive than alcohol. More violent crime results from drinking alcohol than marijuana smoking. It should be legal

Hes done a lot more than smoke weed.

THE_New_York_Giants
02-20-2012, 03:00 PM
if all he's done is smoke weed... then he's far from a menace to society. It's far less dangerous and addictive than alcohol. More violent crime results from drinking alcohol than marijuana smoking. It should be legal

Hes done a lot more than smoke weed.
I haven't heard anything that says he is a cancer in the locker room or boneheaded plays that cost his team games. If anything, i've read about how he has a great sense of humor and is immature. If he's there in the 5th round you draft him and make him a project. Reward far outweighs the risk at that point in the draft. it'd be a better pick than Rhett Bomar....

Shockeyitus
02-20-2012, 03:02 PM
if all he's done is smoke weed... then he's far from a menace to society. It's far less dangerous and addictive than alcohol. More violent crime results from drinking alcohol than marijuana smoking. It should be legal Hes done a lot more than smoke weed.</P>


They dont kick you off the team for smoking dope once. The boy has some issues and he is not worth the risk. </P>

THE_New_York_Giants
02-20-2012, 03:07 PM
if all he's done is smoke weed... then he's far from a menace to society. It's far less dangerous and addictive than alcohol. More violent crime results from drinking alcohol than marijuana smoking. It should be legal Hes done a lot more than smoke weed.</P>


They dont kick you off the team for smoking dope once. The boy has some issues and he is not worth the risk. </P>
In the 5th round he is. Guess how many 5th round picks get cut. A lot. If he becomes crazy, all you really gave up was a 5th round pick or a Rhett Bomar. Best thing we've gotten in the 5th round lately is Williams and he is ballin don't get me wrong, but we haven't fared well in late rounds since the '07 draft

slipknottin
02-20-2012, 03:12 PM
I haven't heard anything that says he is a cancer in the locker room or boneheaded plays that cost his team games. .

Er, he wasent even allowed in the locker room.

heavyhitter
02-20-2012, 05:44 PM
Im starting to think 7th rounder at best now.

Just far too high of a chance he will never play at all, and when he gets paid NFL money who knows what will happen, hes a menace to society already.
Why would he never play at all? Alls he did was speed and violate "team rules"......

Just did some reading of Harris, he's quite the character:

Dashboard camera footage from an Oregon State Police patrol car during the June 12, 4:30 a.m. traffic stop included this memorable exchange:


Patrolman: “Who’s got the marijuana in the car?”

Harris: "We smoked it all"

Harris' reported introductory line to his teammates in 2009: "My name is Cliff Harris, and I'm here to lock **** down."

<font size="2">lol, this is good *** right here. Where is the rest of this article? </font>

juice33s
02-20-2012, 06:03 PM
Im starting to think 7th rounder at best now.

Just far too high of a chance he will never play at all, and when he gets paid NFL money who knows what will happen, hes a menace to society already.
Why would he never play at all? Alls he did was speed and violate "team rules"......

Just did some reading of Harris, he's quite the character:

Dashboard camera footage from an Oregon State Police patrol car during the June 12, 4:30 a.m. traffic stop included this memorable exchange:


Patrolman: “Who’s got the marijuana in the car?”

Harris: "We smoked it all"

Harris' reported introductory line to his teammates in 2009: "My name is Cliff Harris, and I'm here to lock **** down."

<font size="2">lol, this is good *** right here. Where is the rest of this article? </font>

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/55338/oregon-dismisses-cliff-harris

heavyhitter
02-20-2012, 06:15 PM
Im starting to think 7th rounder at best now.

Just far too high of a chance he will never play at all, and when he gets paid NFL money who knows what will happen, hes a menace to society already.
Why would he never play at all? Alls he did was speed and violate "team rules"......

Just did some reading of Harris, he's quite the character:

Dashboard camera footage from an Oregon State Police patrol car during the June 12, 4:30 a.m. traffic stop included this memorable exchange:


Patrolman: “Who’s got the marijuana in the car?”

Harris: "We smoked it all"

Harris' reported introductory line to his teammates in 2009: "My name is Cliff Harris, and I'm here to lock **** down."

<font size="2">lol, this is good *** right here. Where is the rest of this article? </font>

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/55338/oregon-dismisses-cliff-harris
<font size="2">Somebody will roll the dice on him, I don't see him w/ his talent going undrafted. </font>

heavyhitter
02-20-2012, 06:17 PM
<font size="4">Watch the dashboard camera video (http://www.kval.com/news/local/127896303.html?tab=video&amp;c=y#Cliff_Video)
</font>
<font size="3">Chip Kelly's reaction (http://www.kval.com/news/local/127908403.html)</font>

slipknottin
02-20-2012, 06:40 PM
Somebody will roll the dice on him, I don't see him w/ his talent going undrafted. </font>


Everyone said the same about Herzlich.

I remember threads where people wanted to take him in the 3rd round!

But in any case, there isnt a huge demand for 160 pound CBs who cant tackle and got kicked off their college team.

heavyhitter
02-20-2012, 06:50 PM
Somebody will roll the dice on him, I don't see him w/ his talent going undrafted.


Everyone said the same about Herzlich.

I remember threads where people wanted to take him in the 3rd round!

But in any case, there isnt a huge demand for 160 pound CBs who cant tackle and got kicked off their college team.<font size="2">Two totally different case scenerio's comparing Harris to Herzlich. Harris will be red flagged for his "character concerns" and Herzlich was red flagged for his medical. Herzlich went undrafted, Harris will be drafted.</font>

slipknottin
02-20-2012, 07:11 PM
Two totally different case scenerio's comparing Harris to Herzlich. Harris will be red flagged for his "character concerns" and Herzlich was red flagged for his medical. Herzlich went undrafted, Harris will be drafted.</font>


Harris is red flagged not only for character concerns, hes a 160 pound CB who cant tackle...

Everyone here was SURE herzlich would be drafted too

gmen46
02-20-2012, 08:49 PM
Two totally different case scenerio's comparing Harris to Herzlich. Harris will be red flagged for his "character concerns" and Herzlich was red flagged for his medical. Herzlich went undrafted, Harris will be drafted.</font>


Harris is red flagged not only for character concerns, hes a 160 pound CB who cant tackle...

Everyone here was SURE herzlich would be drafted too

From a PAC-10 blogger with ESPN College Football Insider:

"The bad side of Harris was his immaturity and poor decision-making. On the field, he could be brilliant. He was an extraordinary ballhawk. But he also was a poor-to-middling tackler and often got out of position. Many fans could never understand why coach Chip Kelly and defensive coordinator Nick Aliotti said -- over and over and over again -- that CB Talmadge Jackson was their best defensive back in 2010. It was because Harris made two bad plays for every good one.

Still, there was always hope -- even after the traffic stop -- that he would grow up, see the light and become a true superstar at Oregon.

That's no longer an option in Eugene. Maybe he'll find maturity somewhere else?

Some perspective here."

Making 2 bad plays for every good one is not a tendency Giants look for in a draft pick.

The kid clearly never understood the concept of team, in that he is a repeat offender of one bad decision or another. Again, not a tendency Giants look for.

Let some other team try to make him into something he is not.

BlueSanta
02-20-2012, 08:58 PM
It would be very out of character for the Giants to even look at this kid.

Reminder: The Giants dont like Small defensive players. The Giants like Corners who are sound physical players who can tackle. The Giants value character, perhaps more than any team in the league. To a lesser degree the Giants like players who have shown they can play in poor/windy/cold weather.

I honestly think if Harris gets drafted it will be primarily as a punt returner, very late in the draft,and by some team other than the Giants.

slipknottin
02-20-2012, 09:08 PM
Harris is small weight wise, but height wise he actually fits what the giants look for. 5'11 with long arms.

The weight thing is a massive issue though.

The character concerns with the kid wont get him a look before round 6, IMO. 7th round comp pick is possible for him, but I still doubt it.

Now if the kid shows up to the combine at 185+ pounds, shows off his athleticism, and interviews well, shows remorse and that hes learned from his mistakes, theres a possibility that he is drafted, perhaps earlier than round 5.

But its still really really unlikely.

heavyhitter
02-20-2012, 09:41 PM
I honestly think if Harris gets drafted it will be primarily as a punt returner, very late in the draft,and by some team other than the Giants.
<font size="2">Agree 100%, there's more to the Cliff Harris "character concerns" than most of us know about. Like I said in my initial post, some team will roll the dice and gamble on him late in the draft. </font>

heavyhitter
02-20-2012, 09:44 PM
Harris is small weight wise, but height wise he actually fits what the giants look for. 5'11 with long arms.

The weight thing is a massive issue though.

The character concerns with the kid wont get him a look before round 6, IMO. 7th round comp pick is possible for him, but I still doubt it.

Now if the kid shows up to the combine at 185+ pounds, shows off his athleticism, and interviews well, shows remorse and that hes learned from his mistakes, theres a possibility that he is drafted, perhaps earlier than round 5.

But its still really really unlikely.<font size="2">Didn't you post a mock draft about a month ago w/ Cliff Harris going to the Giants in round 3. Change of heart, what happened?</font>

THE_New_York_Giants
02-20-2012, 09:48 PM
I'm more interested in his kick return ability than his coverage ability. Perfect for a 5th-6th round pick. Keep in mind this team has been total crap in the return game since... well forever, though it was decent when we had Hixon. Last KR we had for a touchdown was over 2 seasons ago. We go years without a KR or PR for a TD.

If there was a Devin Hester-esq player available at number 32, I would take him if I were the Giants.

slipknottin
02-21-2012, 01:39 AM
Didn't you post a mock draft about a month ago w/ Cliff Harris going to the Giants in round 3. Change of heart, what happened?</font>


Heard from scouts that Cliff Harris has 'no' draft stock, at all.

Thats not to say I dont like Cliff Harris, I watched him play two years ago and was amazed by his talent on defense, thought he was the best off-man corner in the country, and a great returner too.

But his off the field stuff is just piling up, he just has a horrible attitude and no maturity, so I just dont see any way he has had his head on straight the past couple months and shows up to the combine in shape, at a good weight, and does everyhting including interview well.

Kruunch
02-22-2012, 10:11 AM
He was kicked off the Ducks for being a repeat offender (specifically for getting into more trouble while already suspended).

He also has a rep for being an anti-authoritarian jack ***. Not someone you would normally associate with Tom Coughlin.

However we have (under Reese) taken on project players before with late round flyers (Bradshaw being the notable here).

Depending how he interviews I could see the Giants blowing a 6th or 7th on the guy. Then again I wouldn't hold my breath either.